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EP #70 - Muay Thai Fighter, Influencer & Stuntman - Jackie Cheng

• Scott & Jackie • Episode 70

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I sat down with maybe one of the most productive people I've ever met it's Jackie "The Asian" Cheng! This is a yarn for the books everyone. I had such a blast and Jackie's energy is super contagious. We talked about everything from his martial art journey, training and fighting in Thailand, being in a Savage music video, being a stuntman, being broke and rebuilding from scratch, his work ethic, and content creation.

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SPEAKER_01

Alright, let's get this going. And I am here with Jackie the Asian Chang. Dude, what an honor. What's up, bro? We have a literal workhorse here. Oh, bro. This guy is the definition of productivity. I do not know anybody else who does as much as you do, man. Does everything from starting off with the content. He's a hard worker online. We all see his videos. Funny dude, comedian. Have you done stand-up comedy?

SPEAKER_00

Nah, bro. Not yet. No yeah, not yet.

SPEAKER_01

Tunes in on the cards. Guys are stunt man. Um, and then a Muay Thai fighter. Now, before we continue, bro, I've got to check a few things. Right. How many fingers am I holding up?

SPEAKER_00

Uh five? No, I got it.

SPEAKER_01

We can't continue. Yeah, no more, no more. 92 Scots right now, bro. He took too many punches. Bro. Oh man. Nah, he's he's doing fine. He's doing great. Dude, thank you so much for making the time for me, bro. I was, yeah, like I said before, I was like, man, he he's he's coming on, he's coming on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. No, I appreciate you asking me, bro, honestly. Because I was still in Australia when you asked me as well. So I was trying to stay busy, try doing things, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's what I mean, man. Like the productivity you do is just it's just it just like makes me excited and when I meet people like you, because I myself try and do a few things myself. Of course. And sometimes I'm you get a bit like I've you I heard you talk about on the mandate podcast, you get a bit like lonely at the top, you feel.

SPEAKER_03

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But it's also because you're doing so many, you're doing so much, yeah. And it because it's all you at the end of the day, like you are an entrepreneur, essentially going about all these different things. And it can be a bit of a soul, it feels like a bit solo effort. So I really loved when you said um on that mandate one, you were like, I bring my boys along, I bring people along with me, and I'm like, that is like totally the way to do it. But I guess you've really surrounded yourself with such a good circle. You must have a like I'm just from that podcast, yeah. And I hope that's still the case. You've got a great circle around you.

SPEAKER_00

I do have a good circle, bro. I'd say that, and it expands every single time too, you know? Because I guess it's like the nicer you are to people, the more nicer people you'll meet, but along that you also meet some bad people as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, that's I was gonna have so many questions. I don't know where to begin.

SPEAKER_00

Take your time, take your time.

SPEAKER_01

I think just on that, like I guess for you now, because you're in Mai Thai is the most humbling sport martial arts MMA, you know, in this world. It is you know, it is the most incredibly humbling thing ever. You might, you know, as everyone knows, you may be tough out on the streets, or maybe you think you are, and then you go into an actual someone who knows what they're doing. Yeah, doesn't take long for everyone to realise you know nothing about the sport. And because you've been now doing Mai Thai now for five years? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Five years, yeah. Pretty much five years coming up to this year. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So you started at Jai, shout out Jai KickButton. Yeah, I shot Jai, started at Jai, like yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Before I started at Jai, I was already training like Taekwondo for you know, since I was 12, like fighting since I was 12.

SPEAKER_01

Got the kicks going already, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I got inspired when I was eight and then started getting into it when I was 12.

SPEAKER_01

What was the first inspiration when you were eight?

SPEAKER_00

Jackie Chan movies, bro. You know, just the classic Jackie Chan.

SPEAKER_01

Did you watch the cartoon growing up? Jackie Chan Adventures, yeah, of course. Did you? I love that show so much. And my favorite bit it was always the end when they would ask him advice, like Jackie, what would you do if like blah blah blah blah? And he's and it's I was like, man, dude.

SPEAKER_00

There's so much gold in that show too. They they do have little bits of gold that they do share with people.

SPEAKER_01

But as kids, when we see it, we're like No, I just the fighting's exciting and like hiya, Jackie! Like, ah man, I love that show. That's so cool. And then obviously, like, yeah, like I mean, he's have you seen Drunken Master? I have drunk, I still haven't seen that. I need to watch it.

SPEAKER_00

Bruh, there's that's like the classic. I don't want to uh spoil a fight scene. One really iconic fight scene in that film that you need to watch. It's uh Taekwondo guy versus the Drunken Master style. And you get to really see how the styles differ as well in the fight, so yeah, different styles, different styles for sure.

SPEAKER_01

So you kind of like so interested from that, started Taekwondo at 12. Yeah. You're just really interested in martial arts. So then what was the change into um Thai kickboxing?

SPEAKER_00

Like into Thai kickboxing? Oh bro, I'll tell you this. So I did bodybuilding from when I was 18 to 19, just trying to get big, right? And I wasn't even fighting. I quit Taekwondo after I lost my my latest fight in Taekwondo. I lost it, and then I just completely gave up on it. Oh, right.

SPEAKER_01

So you were competing in Taekwondo as well. Yeah. How many fights did you do in Taekwondo?

SPEAKER_00

In Taekwondo, maybe only four or five, you know.

SPEAKER_01

It's very strict, right?

SPEAKER_00

They're quite strict, yeah. It's either you do patterns or sparring. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so for me I think it'd be very different from like you know the Thai kickboxing, boxing anime world. Because it's not I mean, it's strict, but it's not I I remember I did a bit of karate when I was a kid, just reminds me of like it's very like rudimental.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, grading, follow the ways of the grading, and then from there you progress, kind of thing. But for me, I did stop taekwondo for a bit, then I went to bodybuilding. And after bodybuilding, for some reason I had that mentality, oh, if I'm big, I can fight. Yeah, you know what I mean? And then I went into Jai, yeah, spared a guy named Daniel, and he completely just dropped me.

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow, you have like a cake or like uh uh I went and kicked him, he swept me.

SPEAKER_00

He grabbed me and he swept me, and that was the first time I ever been swept in my life like that. It's not nice being swept, it's not, but for me it was like I don't even know what he just did. Yeah, what was that? Yeah, what was that? And so for me, I told Sulan straight away, which was the owner of Gi, I said, I want to fight, I want to be a fighter in three months' time. I want to fight.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, yep.

SPEAKER_00

And then yeah, three months later I thought so crazy.

SPEAKER_01

So how many fights have you had since then?

SPEAKER_00

Uh now I've had 11 fights. Awesome. Yeah, awesome.

SPEAKER_01

So I was trying to find your record online, but I couldn't find it. I couldn't find anything listed or something. So yeah, no, like tapology. I was like, where is he?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think tapology is only MMA. I was only MMA, yeah. Right, right, right. Yeah, I don't know if they didn't.

SPEAKER_01

If I against MMA, maybe maybe, maybe dude. Like, I've only like just personally like dipped my toes into the world, but I did a little bit of jujitsu and stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Oh jujitsu's good, eh?

SPEAKER_01

I don't I mean, I do it, I try. Um I just go and try. That's what it feels like. It's so hard, man.

SPEAKER_00

Have you seen what the grading is like for the next belt? Yeah, yeah. All the stuff you gotta remember.

SPEAKER_01

All the stuff you gotta remember, but it's just so complex when you're in the moment because when you're striking, as you know, like you're kind of like, okay, like someone throws a punch or a jab, there's a there's like a few things I can do. I can slip, I can block, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's like, alright, someone's gonna put you here, you have about 10 ways of escaping, or a way of retaliating, or you're just gonna get choked out if you don't if you're not fast enough.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and you've got 0.1 second to think about 10 moves that you can try.

SPEAKER_01

It's so complex. But you would you would try MMA?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, 100%. I wouldn't before, but for some reason, just something else you haven't tried. Yeah, yeah, it's just something I haven't done yet, and I think it'd be a good experience.

SPEAKER_01

I think I yeah, man. I saw a good video that you did with like sparring an MMA guy. Yeah, that was a funny clip. I enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it was like for that video. I was kind of can you teach me what you're good at? And then if you teach me what you're good at, I'll try to add my twist to it, and then we can make a video out of that. So that video took 10 minutes to make.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, awesome. Yeah, it's funny how that can be, right? Um they can those short videos you put like um spontaneous thought into will probably do it. They do so much better. They always do so much better than the ones that you plowed into. We're gonna make everything look great, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Camera angle, lighting, and it's like and then that video does 10, but then the one you're like, oh, I want to shoot randomly, does like a million.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's so bizarre. Yeah. So talk about um I want to know more about your uh so that's with the fighting part, and we'll we'll come back to that because there's so much talk about in that. But I also because I always love learning about people's early beginnings.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so what I found really interesting with you is you you you've you've you're so driven with everything you're trying to go after. Yeah. You talked a bit about this in the mandate one and a few other podcasts, but like I wanted to know more about like with like the social media content. Yeah. How did you what when were you like, let me just grab my phone and make stuff? And I don't really care about about other people. I'm just gonna like start.

SPEAKER_00

Man. I started making videos like that when I was eight years old as well. Wow. So as soon as my sister got on iPad, I was always trying to find ways to jump on her iPad and start shooting stuff straight away, you know. Um, but before that, we were just pretending making game shows and pretending you know, like just in the living room with your siblings, yeah, yeah, pretending you have game shows here and there. But as soon as my sister got an iPad, can I use the iPad? Can I just five minutes? And then I'll just make little edits, make little videos. And they're still there on Facebook now. Oh, that's so good. They're all private now, obviously. You know, because keep it quiet. Yeah, yeah, just keep it away, you know, keep it in the past and all. And then it'll come out later. Yeah, yeah, I'll definitely release it much later. You should.

SPEAKER_01

That stuff's important. I really think everyone loves seeing that stuff from the beginning.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So yeah, you should keep those. I mean, it's like I I started making videos quite young and then I started doing it at school. So then during high school, I had like a big battle with myself with I like whether I should make videos and care about what people think, or I should just not make videos and then not care about what people think. Yeah. I just thought maybe I should just make videos because who cares anyways at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's it's hard when you're in in high school, eh? Because when you're in school, that's all you know at the time. That's all that's been your world since the age of like four or five years of age. So it's sort of like when people start uh picking on you or bullying and be like, why the fuck do you do that? And it's New Zealand, so we double down on the toolpuppy. Yep, yep, yep. Uh so it's tricky. And that's something else I wanted to bring up with you as well. Because of the all the things you've done, and you are quite a unique individual with, you know, I don't know many people who are like, uh, you know, you're in the martial art world, stunt, content, you do a lot of video editing, entrepreneurial stuff, you know, it's yeah, a pretty awesome, unique journey. But a lot of people, I imagine, and because we're in New Zealand, have tried to cut you down and been like, Jackie, bro, come on, you gotta go get a real job. You can't getting out the phone, you sh pulling videos out in the supermarket, you gotta go get your degree.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 100%. How have you managed that? Uh for me, I just block it out. I don't need to hear that stuff. Oh well, that's it's okay to hear it, but you don't have to take it in, you know? You know, it's just other people's opinions and whether you take it or not. That's their opinion. What's your opinion of yourself, you know? If you've got a good opinion of yourself, then it shouldn't matter.

SPEAKER_01

Has martial arts helped you with that thinking?

SPEAKER_00

100%. Because it's it's all discipline at the end of the day, you know. You just keep losing and losing and losing until you win. And a winner is just a loser that tried one more time, you know? And that just goes with everything. I love that. Yeah, that goes with everything. Yeah, a loser is a winner that just tried one more time, you know? I love that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So true. People just keep shitting on you day in, day out, but one day you blow up everyone loves you, bro. Everyone's like, oh bro. Yeah, yeah. It's like at school when I was making all my high school videos, my vlogs, everything, no one really supported me. Like year nine, year ten. But then year thirteen, everyone jumped in the vlogs, you know? And I did daily vlogs in year 13 just for the end of the year, just to document like school. And yeah, just everyone jumped in, teachers jumped in, everyone jumped in. No one really judged it anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. Yeah. That's very interesting. So because for the let's go to the year nine, year ten. Okay. The awkward years. 13 to about 15 years of age. And because those years are very like um you go, so much is going on with your body, and emotionally you're developing so quickly. Yeah. And because like, especially when I remember being that age, you're so sensitive to things. And uh I'm just wondering, like, for you, you've managed like to to break out of that. I couldn't break out of that when I was that age.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, I just want to be left alone. Like, I don't like you know, I'm getting mocked at if you get mocked at school and this, that, and the other.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But you managed to break through it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, that's so resilient for that age, man. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I guess it was a lot of because I didn't have my dad around as well, you know. So I felt like I had something to prove. Yeah. And plus I had other siblings too. So for me, it was like You're the older, older siblings. I'm the oldest. So for me, that's just I gotta be the oldest, I gotta stand up and be the oldest. And for me, the only problem with that was I was afraid of making mistakes in front of my siblings. Because you're trying to be that perfect person, for example, very likely. And then sometimes you mess up or you don't do well and you don't want to tell them you keep it from them, and then you take that onto yourself and you become bitter. But you gotta tell people stuff, eh?

SPEAKER_01

Especially when I guess when it comes to those mistakes, we don't like showing people mistakes as humans. It's like we don't like showing the flaws of the journey. But like without them, you're not gonna do anything. Like like sorry, you know, like if you that's what the the starting is always the hardest because you're just like failing and failing and failing and failing. And it might take years of just failing, but then you might get that one day where it just you know exactly. Yeah, but a lot of people don't want to do that, and uh, you know, obviously with what you're doing as well, like listen to the podcast saying that you were also broke at one point. Yes, and you like living on your friend's couch and all that, going through some difficult times there. Yep. And that kind of made me think like, wow, like you know, no one would really have any idea because everyone just might see you like outside uh social media profile or whatever, making videos or Jackie's fine, yeah. You know, it's like probably I don't know, you don't really know what's going on behind closed doors in that way.

SPEAKER_00

So I mean it was it's crazy. Like two weeks ago, I was out with um some friends that I met in Thailand and we were all catching up, and then this one girl, like she came up to me and she said, Oh, you look like you run on daddy's money. Like, I swear she said that to me, everyone looked at me, and all I said was, I mean, I would if I had a dad, like as a joke, you know, like the and then she was like and then she walked off. Oh man. But for me, it was like I took it in a joking way, you know. But nice. Oh my god, what's he gonna do? Yeah, yeah. I mean, if I had a dad, then I would, you know. Yeah, there's no there's no reason for me to go in a bad way. Yeah, you know, throw more fire onto the fire.

SPEAKER_01

It's just but I love the attitude you have because I think with people from backgrounds, for example, with family, you know, dad not being around, parents not being around, or you know, people have siblings or people around them die at a young age, make things hard. Yeah, you can make it feel like the world owes you something. Oh, 100% because things have been taken away. And 100%. You you might have gone through that, I'm unsure, but um you've turned it into something like, no, I'm gonna go out and fight for what's mine, and I'm gonna live. I'm proving to the world like the world has already made things hard. Yep. I'm gonna make things better, and I love that. But it's hard, hard to get there. And I think you made it at a young age, man, so you should be proud of that. Yeah, I appreciate that as fuck. Um onto something crazier. You're a stunt man. Are you still doing stunts? And this episode is sponsored by me. Do you struggle with sleeping and particularly struggle with light and sound while sleeping? I think it's time you get the sleep that you deserve. My business Infinity Sleep specializes in sleep well-being products to enhance your sleep quality. I've been using sleep masks and airplugs for the past three years to help improve my sleep, and I'm so stoked to finally have ones that have been created for my own sleeping needs. If you would like to learn more about my business Infinity Sleep, please visit our website www.infinitysleep.co dot nz. By making a purchase, you are directly not only supporting a local Y business, but also this podcast. Use the promo code only scot fifteen percent and receive fifteen percent off your first order. Go to w dub dot infinitysleep.co dot nz to get the sleep that you deserve.

SPEAKER_00

I'm still doing a stunts, yeah, yeah, I'm still doing that now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it the stunt thing is a big like you either get it or you don't get it kind of thing. So sometimes you lose in the aspect of that too. Because I do the content, I do the stunts. When I pitch to films, I always make a video. And sometimes we could spend hours on that with like 20 people, but then it could get declined for a film. You know what I mean? So it's like sometimes you put in the work and sometimes it just doesn't work out. Yeah, and that's okay, you just have to get back on the horse and keep trying. That's where the Star Wars one comes in as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me about that. Yeah, so I'm just trying to do uh little short films involving all types of stunts, but in different aspects of stunts, you know what I mean? So we want to do a fighting one, we want to do a parkour one, we want to do a Star Wars one. Like we want to try everything, we don't want to just stick to one thing because if one thing fails, another door opens. Yeah. So for us, it's like, okay, sweet, this didn't work. Now we can try something else.

SPEAKER_01

So you have like your own crew, you're like you're like a like a like a little film crew and some people or organization. Cool, cool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, we've got we've got some good people around that are just trying, you know. So for us, it's just trying. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I love that. I love that. Because yeah, that's what we're all really trying to do at the end of the day. Yeah, well, I had tried to do it. We're all trying to live, bro. We're all trying to live, we're all just trying to make it work. Yeah, yeah. So oh yeah, awesome. I'm a Star Wars note, man. Have you seen the behind the scenes of um episode three? So it's the 20th anniversary this year, which makes me feel old. Um, that's they showed in cinemas again. Yeah, they are. I'm going to it, I'm already gonna take it because I'm just like I have to watch it. Um but have you seen like the last so the lightsaber scene the lightsaber scene and the last you know between Anakin and Obi One, that's like legit. It's like they train for it. Yeah, it's so cool, man. Like how they actually like trained and choreographed, and they're they do their own stunts for it. Yeah. And the behind the scenes is so buzzy. I mean, you you know this world more than I do, but it's like all the green screen. Yeah, they're just we don't see much. They're just fighting in the green. Yeah, but they're actually you know, like got the lightsabers and doing it. I'm like, oh, it's so fucking cool.

SPEAKER_00

They gotta imagine it themselves that everything is kind of around them and then just play off with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well now, like with the latest Star Wars, um, the Mandalorian series, they actually have like all the screens like this. Have you seen the behind the scenes The Mandalorian? No, I haven't seen the So they actually have like a surrounding like uh video wall. Yeah, and so they can change the set on Q on Q. So it's like oh, this is this planet, but they're on the spaceship now, they're on this planet, or whatever. Technology is gone, like it's crazy. Chat GBT, yeah, yeah. All of that stuff, bro, all the AI stuff. AI is doing this podcast too. Yeah. This is AI Jackie. Only Scott's AI podcast, that's cool. But the behind the scenes is crazy because it's like you can just change the world around you like that. Damn. And uh, you know, you can be fully submersive and then put all the props in. So all you need to do is like, well, I imagine it's more complicated. It's gonna build the the video what's on the video walls first, build the set, but it's like, alright, now we're in the spaceship, push the button, move out parts of the set, move it in, alright, let's go. Yeah. Whereas before that would have taken hours, like just to even change the background.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, they they get like 20 people and cut everyone come in, move it up, but now if you say that they have that screen. I recommend checking it out.

SPEAKER_01

It's really cool. Behind the scenes of Mandalorian. That means I don't need to do much anymore, you know? Wild stuff. Yeah. I also uh remember you you've said in uh about how when you've done stunts and you've been on film sets and that, you really just love the fighting part of it.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's the part that you've discovered that is actually the part you really enjoy and sent you on your fighting journey.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then has now sent you well, sent you to Thailand to go and fight. So that's w when did that click for you? Was that on a film set? Or was that like just randomly you were like, I want to be a fighter actually. This my film stuff is cool, but yeah, I want to go and actually do the real thing.

SPEAKER_00

Man, it was when I got swept that one time. Oh, right. Yeah, literally, like I just decided I saw Jai and I was like, okay, maybe I'll go and do a free trial. And then I was quite excited, so I told Silent, I want to be a fighter, I want to do this in three months, and she was like, Okay, jump in the sparring first. Jumped into sparring, kicked, got swept, and I was like, okay, I'm signing up. I need to be here, I need to get better.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and yeah, from there just hasn't stopped. Yeah. And then you went to King's Academy as well?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah, yeah. So yeah, uh half or a year and ten months later, I joined King's Academy. Yeah. Yep. And then from there, one week later I fought as well. So it's like in the deep end. Yeah, right in the deep end. But it was good. It was good at the time as well, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Because you really wanted to do it.

SPEAKER_00

I want to fight so badly, you know. But gotta let this, gotta let this.

SPEAKER_01

What happened there?

SPEAKER_00

Uh so I snapped my arm June 15th last year in my last fight. Yep. Oh it's been recovering as well, but you know, I've got I haven't watched the fight, so how did it snap? Uh like to Switchkick and I went to parry. I stepped back parry, and then it just met wrong. I'll I'll show you a photo later. It just met wrong and then my arm just stopped working. Yeah, you gotta that one there. The the trying to like, yeah, yeah, just the parry off the parry off, but then you know, round one it snapped and I just didn't know what was going on. Round two, I'm like, okay, yeah, I it's definitely broken now. Coach is like, why aren't you clinching? And I'm like, I think let it go. Round three, I'm like, okay, I just gotta try to survive this round now, you know.

SPEAKER_01

That is crazy. I I'd bitch out, I'd be like, nah, my arm's broken.

SPEAKER_00

It was awesome. Like, is it because the adrenaline held me off? Yeah, I think it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01

Would would be the thing you'd be like, nah, I'm in here now. Fuck it. I worked too hard. I can't, I can't, I did like a six-week fight camp. Like, fucking. I gotta fight, I gotta find now.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I've been doing this for six m six weeks.

SPEAKER_01

You poke me in the eyes and I'm blind, I don't care. I still have to fight find them and give them a good fucking kick.

SPEAKER_00

Bro, 100%. Like my second fight in Thailand uh at Rajadam, I got elbowed in the face, and that was kind of my reality of oh, these shots don't hurt. When I got elbowed right in the face, I just I was aware of it. Yep. I was like, oh, this is gonna hurt after. Once that battle goes and uh they said I lost or I won. Yep, this is definitely gonna hurt after. I was right, it hurt after, and I was my joke.

SPEAKER_01

Did you get cut?

SPEAKER_00

Nah, no cut. He I think he threw an up elbow at me off the clinch, and then he just stepped in and threw it. Oh yeah, and then as soon as I saw it with the men's video, like I saw it coming a little, and then I like dipped my head down and it still like hit my whole chin. Oh it was beautiful. Like props to him. It was such a good technique was on point. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It just reminds me when I had um Michael on here and when he did his King of the Ring final and then um his opponent was Daniel um yeah and he got kneed in the stomach I was like how was that? And uh he was like oh I was fucking hurt like shit because he fell and he but then he was like went to Daniel oh good shot bro yeah yeah because they've fought a couple times I remember listening on your podcast saying they to take the eight count fully you know yeah yeah yeah yeah which is great um a hundred percent um it's quite interesting um speaking of like the eight count it reminds me of um a lot of talks going on about the safety of like boxing mainly and then um MMA maybe Thai kickboxing I'm not sure but this was more related to MMA with like how in boxing there are more deaths there are yeah and compared to MMA and probably Thai kickboxing as well they just had their they just had a death recently oh shit yeah some guy got kicked in the rib and then he died yeah geez yeah yeah so I guess that's it depends right yeah life or death baby yeah from a body kick though yeah that's uh I I must have just yeah I don't I mean I I'd I'd have no idea must have just broken something in there must have internal bleeding should have been a lead up or something maybe you know that's crazy from a from a from a body kick yeah so for me I was like I've never heard that before someone die from a body kick but boxing head trauma head trauma CT it's the repeated head trauma because you go down you get knocked down you got eight you got ten eight or ten whatever it is and then you can come back up knock down again and then just repeated repeated repeated and that's and then obviously with like MMA like you get if it happens once like that's a TKO like you're done bro yep the great thing about Muay Thai is yeah if you get knocked down they give you an eight count three times that's it.

SPEAKER_00

And then after that no more. Yeah but I guess for boxing you can just keep getting up and up and up and up and up.

SPEAKER_01

This is it right like you've just got it's just the fit the fists and the head is the biggest target Mai Thai kickboxing you've got more um target area you know obviously boxing got head and the body but you want to deliver the big ones it's to the head yeah 100% and everyone loves the knockout good for the highlight reel yeah it still looks good yeah do you know a guy named Tommy Morrison?

SPEAKER_00

He was like a fighter in the 90s so boxing in the 90s was crazy because it would go 12 rounds. Yeah yeah 12 rounds five minutes that's that's a lot of head trauma you know that's a lot of head trauma for them to keep getting up and up and up and up after that that's it's gonna affect them long term but I guess now everyone's quite smart yeah about that now so everyone's more aware of it yeah and also I think there's a lot more which I like is the shame culture on uh gym heroes I think the term's called guys who want to take your head off in the gym uh spa but it's not a spar it's just a fucking fight um which is ridiculous yeah um because it's like who's getting better?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah your ego um but then you visit the next guy and you get fucking your ass kicked so it's just like I don't but yeah some people just have got the anger issues or don't understand how the process works I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

And I guess it's also different styles as well you know through like different martial arts MMA obviously they wear 16s and they go hard because they're used to training and fighting in fours yeah like six ounces. Yeah. But for us we're so used to fighting in tens we train in sixteens. Yeah yeah so it's so different because tie style is like real light you know Sabai Sabai style you go light you train you try fight shots and then when you're on your fight you use it because that's when the power is you've practiced it in the sparring you've practiced it with everyone if it works in sparring you're doing it slow it's gonna work in the fight if you do it fast. You know so what's the most amount of rounds you've done sparring sparring like bro have to be at Kings uh I think I did 20 rounds.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god yeah but this was in a shark tank yeah like three minutes around or two minutes around 15 seconds every new fight oh yeah new fighter in every 15 seconds yeah and how long were the rounds two minutes three minutes I think it was straight 20 straight no sorry like you so when before you had like a little 15 minute break I suppose yeah but how long's like the round oh the most rounds oh yeah like 15 rounds yeah but we just go how long's the round like one three minutes rounds yeah yeah so uh that's yeah that's not fun yeah yeah by the last ones you must be like alright we're almost there yeah well it's like round one before sparring you're like damn I don't want to get hit I feel really really stiff by the end of it you're like I'm really tired I don't care if I get hit hard anymore it's just whoever gets whoever it's just like get out of my way yeah and you've got to make sure you pick a good sparring partner too yes as well someone who tests you like that' appropriately right yes yeah something else I talked a bit um some um martial art guys on here is having partners like before you go and fight like the week before you gotta be training hard but you gotta be like careful it's like this fine balance of like I need to be training working hard but I don't want to get injured or if you're doing like some sparring it's like yeah gotta have the right team because otherwise it's like oh I got kicked really hard in the rib and now I've got a like fucking broken rib or something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah now I gotta deal with that before my fight and shit. And then you might not be able to or you might be able to go in but now you're at a disadvantage and you know yeah now that thing happens a lot um but if you have the right team you should be okay and you'll know when you have the right team too because you'll be training with everyone for like that whole six weeks in your fight camp and then eventually you'll it's not that you pick people out. You just find people have a similar style and you want them to train with you because you kind of need it.

SPEAKER_01

Yep then it helps.

SPEAKER_00

What's been like the out of all your fights you've had what's been the most um rewarding one for you like if you've taken a lot away from like you've learned a lot from it the most rewarding one would have to be my first one in Thailand I think that would probably be because when I first went to Thailand I've heard about Rajadam Nam the stadium how it's like one of the first stadiums ever built in Thailand for Muay Thai I said I want to fight there one day. Went to the gym the coach just goes oh Jackie what your weight and I'm like oh bro like I'm like 78 kgs didn't think anything of it and then next week he goes oh okay next week you come you fight next week and I'm like huh what what okay that's kind of what I expect. Yeah yeah so they're quite like excited they want you to jump in the ring yeah but the only reason I even went Thailand in the first place was because I saw um a documentary with John Wayne Parr do you know who that is no I don't know so he's a Muay Thai fighter from Australia and he actually lived in Thailand as well like from when he was young up until we grew up so I kind of saw a documentary on him and his daughter talking about how his experiences was in Thailand when he was fighting and that motivated me to go. Wow yeah so because he said he was 16 around that around that age and at the time I was around 17 18 I was like why can't I do it?

SPEAKER_01

You know if he's doing it why can't I do it too true true I might as well go and do it. Yeah and they start training from at the age of like five probably even crazy three or four I can't I can't remember if it's um one of the most recent fights in one championship is Rod Tang and another superlek he's quite tall Nabil? Maybe yeah but he was talking about his first professional fight at like age of seven or something and he versed a guy who was like five I was just like this is a parallel universe to me yeah such a different it's a different different I've never been so I'd love to go this is a different world anything I've known about like you know at that age yeah New Zealand like yeah it's like illegal oh it would be a culture yeah it'd be that's that's what I think when I see two five year olds fighting in like a bar in Thailand I'm like is this legal you know what I mean like but then back home in New Zealand it would be like whoa what the heck are they doing?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah why are they doing that? But Thailand's like oh yo there's two five year olds fighting each other in the bar right now everyone's gotta go watch or the uncles and aunties kind of like bit money yeah bit money who's gonna win red green green red blue blue blue yeah they walk around as well so they walk up to you and they go oh are you betting on red or blue? Uh red okay yeah yeah yeah because they know they're gonna win as well yeah yeah so when I was in Chiang Mai they did the same thing. Really? They come up to you go I'm bidding red you want to bet on blue? And then I'm like no are you bidding on red because he's gonna win he goes yeah I'm like can I bet on red he's like no what's the point? What's the point? Because they're just trying to play with different foreigners as well you know yeah I bet.

SPEAKER_01

So one of the funniest uh of a good like video I watched of this guy what's his name on um Instagram makes a little Mai Thai memes Tink Mai Thai or something he's Aussie guy's super funny but he had one I think where he actually went to he was like I think amateur fighter and he went to Thailand and he had like a video saying like they put you in the ring like real quickly then the coaches bet against you to make money. Yeah yeah yeah they like go oh yeah it's okay this fight easy easy no worry no worry this guy beginner and then you jump in and it's like death of a thousand knees you're like what am I fighting death of what yeah 500 fights 2000 knockouts like oh sh okay yeah and then you see the coaches in there like cashing their checks just like yeah you'll be great all right we'll put it in the Lupini Stadium they do a lot of uh gambling out there I bet they do yeah Roger they don't really do gambling but Lupini Stadium they do a lot of gambling for the fight so uh I mean I'd I'd I'd join in with the fun but it is a what is the wild west it's a bit of the wild west added vision yeah because it's like if you're a fighter and you win your fight at Lupini the betters all get excited they want to take photos with you oh you win me money oh you're money fighter and then when you lose a fight it's like oh you lost me money go away like s like you come out of the ring already beat and they come bite and fucking slap you in the face and you lost me money you lost me money bro I'm like I didn't even tell you to bet on me bro I don't even know who you are bro I'm just gonna take my fight and go like who are you that's just their culture eh it's sick it's so good you know you'd love it nothing closes everything's open all the time so you'll never feel like oh have to get to the grocery store have to eat dinner by this time because everything's open 247 247 country a 7 Eleven oh bro oh yeah I've um 7 Eleven in Thailand oh brood to get the drinks the food everything you need when you go oh you gotta let me know I'll let you know I'll send you some stuff to go buy yeah yeah yeah and you enjoy it that's so cool bro oh man such a crazy little journey for you going into that and and have you got another fight book coming up or anything I do in Chiang Mai around late May so exciting should be good yeah me and my team are gonna head out there awesome try get the belt yeah yeah oh is it for the belt yeah yeah so I want to try try bring that belt home awesome what's the what's the title if you don't want me to FairTex Chiang Mai oh that's yeah yeah should be a good one yeah I'm looking forward to that you're gonna ask for a fair tech sponsor oh well I gotta get the belt first you know what I mean but if so please I'm here I'm here good yeah I got um yeah I got some six um some gloves and I'm like these are fucking good they're good eh yeah yeah you should get the bag as well and have like the long um side bag yeah we should sponsor sponsor the sponsor the podcast yeah yeah yeah only Scots so I always want to take a little uh sidestep here and I want to just talk about also your content creation journey because you've been doing that that's kind of like almost your bread and butter I feel where you started off you've done so much video editing production yeah and how you've um kind of branded yourself as well and I remember looking at I I went to your LinkedIn out of all places and I was like let me have a look at this guy what's he done I was like pack and save I was like yeah this guy's the real real deal yeah bro he's done it all but after that um you had um you were doing like you're a brand ambassador for a business and you you um had like and obviously doing all your video editing stuff so you must have learned a lot about how to brand yourself and like market yourself probably from that from brand ambassador I learned how to I learned how to open my own business be self-employed and what's reimbursement what's a tax file what's a risk it's like what's a this what's a that oh okay what's self-employed mean you know what's owning a business mean so I got to learn all of that off of that and then from there because that job stopped in COVID Oh that's a shame because yeah COVID kind of it killed a lot of things it did kill a lot of things yeah I guess it kind of recycled a lot of stuff yeah unfortunately that's unfortunate but you must have yeah I because with how you go about um putting yourself out there like I look at what you've done and I'm like that's so fucking cool but then I look at like that experience and I'm like ah I can under I I can see that he he knows what he's doing. Like he's he's got he's you know you've learned a lot from having those experiences and learning it like quite young as well but very valuable. So yeah I was like okay that's really cool and you know doing all the content and it's all like being a business owner or an entrepreneur or whatever it is now you have to be online. Like there's like it's really bizarre sometimes even for me to think about like if you want to have your business uh to be at some form of success yeah you have to basically be a content creator. You do there's no other way around it anymore. And it's kind of interesting because um I remember the early days of social media like with Facebook and people were like why the fuck do I need a Facebook account for my business? Like why would you get that's what kids use. Yeah. And then now it's like we gotta be on everything. Everyone's following the trend we need social media managers we need content creators we need collabs. It's just such a like 10 years like 10 years ago like this shit was just not even thought about everyone's like what a joke. Yeah it's like that's what it's like entertainment you know silly things online back then people planking or something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah but then now it's like a full on business you know multi-million dollars I think it's so funny because so weird I used to get mocked for doing this and then now everyone that I've seen that used to mock me is doing it now. Yeah that for me it's like a oh times change like I'm so happy times changed you got in though you got yeah I got in a cash you got in early which is awesome.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah yeah because that's something I think about a lot with it because I remember I got I started a YouTube channel back in like 2008. Yep way back and I remember being like you know I was trying to do in some stuff and then I was like ooh you know I I kind of got like I I was embarrassed and all that stuff in like 15. I'm I'll take it down and then I'm like damn it should have been like damn it should have kept doing it but um it's so funny how that works with so many things. It's like what people will you know tear down mock insult like personal brand it's like who do you think you are having a personal brand?

SPEAKER_00

So cringe you're not a celebrity now it's like ah it's like oh everyone has to yeah yeah well that's like Instagram's the new LinkedIn you know as well it is in a sense isn't it LinkedIn is popping off though at the moment yeah LinkedIn is doing it's popping off it's like kind of caught up now like LinkedIn's always lagged behind a bit yeah it lagged behind back in 2020 and yeah all that and now it's kind of yeah I think COVID was a big kind of propeller of like LinkedIn of being like we gotta be more on here you know like but do you see all the jobs on there as video content creating and photographer videographer it's like content creator is an actual job it's a job yeah I remember the first time I saw social media coordinator is a job and I'm like Social media coordinator what yeah you can do this for a job are you kidding me could be on your phone for a job it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01

Well I do you remember when teachers would tell you oh get off your phone yeah of course it's not gonna help you with anything in your future can you use a calculator on your phone yeah well now I know yeah 10 years later yes yeah you know back then it's crazy how even fast in 10 years technology has changed and just the the thinking of how social media and I know I get I get some young guys on here and like bands and other things creative endeavors and they're like already got a business model and they're like 16 and I'm just like man that's like shit. Yeah like these these kids are just they they know the game they understand how to do it you know and I'm just like wow like blown away when we were young we didn't have YouTube tutorials all the time everywhere or self-help stuff on TikTok or Insta we literally just saw some guy make it on the news and we'll be like oh that's yeah that's the guy we want to be so that success so yeah it's like oh the media's showing me this and now it's sort of like I love now we get to pick and choose who let's who who are you listening to because yeah before like in New Zealand if you go way back there was like two was like one channel one and three and that was like yeah whatever that was there. Yeah like that's all the information all the newspaper and when you're young you're not reading the newspaper. No no no way no no no like oh I'll read the newspaper yeah yeah or just draw stuff on the newspaper or something yeah yeah yeah doodles yeah a hundred percent so it's just so bizarre for that but I just like um yeah I I I guess what I love now is everybody can really be their well authentic self in a sense and not be afraid as much yeah because what I live a lot about especially upcoming like creatives and even you could probably say fighters as well they can put themselves out there more advertise themselves they don't need to have management really they don't need to have a lot of like middlemen I don't know what you call it. You can if you learn the way like like you have yeah you there is a way to do it it's just a lot more work but it like in a sense it's better because you are in control.

SPEAKER_00

Yep you get to see everything going on. That's the only thing for me I just want to see everything going on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah and I think that's really important because I feel especially when it comes to the financial side of things um and I imagine this I think no this does happen in fighting a lot with fighting contracts and promotions because it happens a lot in the entertainment world as you in film as you know in a music world is um a lot of people will just get signed and they you know oh getting my paycheck sweet but the terms and conditions like you know like you miss out on things or suddenly you're owned by the company or maybe you took out a loan for a project and then they've added on like 30% or something to pay back on top and then you don't own your rights.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

You know and I feel like now because of these like young like teenagers or uh whatever like they just know they have like they don't need to worry about that as much they're much smarter as well as much yeah they're so much smarter now they are bro than we were when we were their age too bro and like I'm only 25 but now people are people asking me about creators about this and now I'm like who?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah there's so many people coming up now suddenly just out of touch doesn't take long right yeah there's so many of them now and I'm like damn it's so I'm not like getting that old I'm just falling behind like everyone's just coming up it moved it just moves so quick it moves so fast it moves so fast.

SPEAKER_01

I just will never forget when um way back on YouTube when they when people would get like a million subscribers and that was like a really really big deal.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah um and then you get paid and I was like what you get paid to just make videos in your bedroom like it's crazy like you know and suddenly it was like I do you remember that guy Fred on YouTube with the high pitched voice and he talks really fast yeah and he got put on like Nickelodeon and like went on this whole like mainstream journey from it and that was like never I mean who would have thought making silly videos online can now turn into a proper legitimate you know yeah he went on like so yeah that definitely can take you up a place a like I feel like my social media's taking me places with the films that I do now as well because I uh and fighting too I feel like all of that kind of plays together you know like you're kind of trying to increase your self-worth for yourself but also show people that you can kind of do things too and that's where I feel LinkedIn comes in oh no Instagram comes in like LinkedIn because if people can see what you do they want to work with you as well the first thing people ask fighters is how many fights has he got right do you have any photos yeah yeah any photos of his fights any videos of his fights that's the first thing they ask but if you have it there that's fine it's easy it's almost like it's digital C V isn't it it is yeah I always tell people that just showcase yeah build up the portfolio of everything because they can see who you work with.

SPEAKER_01

So if you collab with this person then oh I know this guy oh he's worked with Jackie bro oh he's worked with like blah blah blah like you get to see who people work with and credibility here and there just like LinkedIn yeah you check who the connections are yeah all the time right oh this person knows this and maybe they are trustworthy and you can work with them and all that so you always go through the connections you're like ah who does he know oh he knows this guy I know this guy yeah so yeah maybe we can work together right it's all right yeah well this is the other thing as well when it comes to the digital world a lot and um on LinkedIn specifically um I was looking for work during like COVID and all that stuff and the amount of fake jobs it was crazy fake jobs fake jobs so like on LinkedIn and stuff there was there were so many um cases coming out about uh like fake organizations yeah and so it was like all these like fake businesses and fake brands that don't actually exist but they're advertising for jobs and what they would do is they get you go like you know go through the job application process and then they'd like oh give us your bank account so we can pay you and then goodbye money's taken out of your account and then that it's not actually a real job. And there was quite a few of these I see it on Facebook still crazy yeah really oh Facebook's like spamming central now as a friend they have zero this zero that then they just message you yeah your Facebook page is gonna get taken down send us your details real quick before we uh we also need your bank account for some reason it's like it's like yeah bro cool they're they're evolving yeah yeah right yeah it's um one of the the most impressive ones I heard this isn't good but it was impressive to me how far they went for the scam was that it was called like Project Growth or something some like digital marketing agency or something and they built like a business uh you know for digital marketing and they had like a over hundreds of trust pilot reviews oh okay so it's like so they that they had like hacked truck I don't know how they did it. I don't know they must have made like so many different profiles and just wrote all these fake reviews about themselves. And then they like um advertised on LinkedIn for jobs and did all this stuff and then um yeah it just turned out to be a massive scam.

SPEAKER_00

Did they actually get people though?

SPEAKER_01

They did. There was like a Reddit thread about it a while back and I was just like whoa but it was like a so many that was like about a year or two. Yeah. You know when hard times happen right? A lot of these people come out of the woodworks, you know? It's kind of like modern day looting. Digital looting I'd call it right digital looting yeah damn But yeah, that's something I've noticed is just become and the scammers are more sophisticated now and getting better and better. So you've got to be very careful of that.

SPEAKER_00

Well that's like the pump and dumps that people do in America, you know, with like crypto.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, what was that girl's name? The Hoc Toe girl, she did that. She did? She she made a crypto coin.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then everyone invested and she she pumped and dumped and then she dipped.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think there's a guy named Jack Doherty. He's like a YouTuber girl. He does that quite often to his audience. What the? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So it's so shitty, man.

SPEAKER_00

But they always fall for it. So I think it's just uh I mean if you fall for it more than once. One time, bro, then damn, bro. That's like sucks you. Yeah. At that point, it's like you gotta fix yourself about do some reflection. Yeah. I mean, only so many times you can get screwed over, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've I've been scared myself, nothing for anything crazy, thank God. But like, you know, we've had the I've had it for concert tickets the most, actually. Buying online concert tickets.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and then when they're sold out, they go, Oh, we got two tickets on the side.

SPEAKER_01

I think I've been scammed like three or four times. No, no, just on the event page. Yeah, go on like a Facebook event, like the event, and then be like, oh, I got tickets and stuff, and I'm like, Oh yep, King King, and then they're like, Yep, send us your money on paper. I'm like, sweet, and then disappear.

unknown

Damn it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, people do that quite often, they're gonna be. They gotta take advantage of the situation and like desperate people. Yeah. But that comes with the financial world, bro, and the business world.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's why it's great. Like, what happens? We can like I feel like like talking about the younger generation now, like it's just so easy to get the information, and because you're already setting up everything yourself, you own everything, now you get to choose when people decide, you know, say if you do very well online, do very well with a business, yeah, start up whatever thing you're trying to do. Yeah, and then people come along, and then you're like, Well, I've already got everything set up. What are you gonna do? You know, how are you gonna help me? Yeah, whereas before it's like you needed them to actually even get your foot or get your toe in the door, essentially. But now you can search it up.

unknown

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that's I think that's one of the things that I don't the really positive things people don't talk about the internet. I think because everyone's always like, oh, everything's awful all the time and media and social media and blah blah blah blah. It's always horrible. It's like, dude, like things are a lot uh are a bit more transparent. And uh, you know, like if okay, let's say Google it might have its biases, maybe go to ChatGPT, maybe go to Deep Seek, maybe even go to Bing. I mean, if you want to, but Bing.

SPEAKER_00

Oh Bing, I haven't heard Bing in a while, bro.

SPEAKER_01

Still going hard. Still? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Especially in China, I think Bing is like still the biggest thing. Because in China, I could only use Bing.

SPEAKER_01

There's another one that's really big over in China as well. They got their own? Maybe. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, but there's all these other search engines available to you. So it's like if you don't like this one, you do uh because Google just dominates, so everyone's like, it's only Google, it's like back in the day, bro. It was compet it was competitive. Yeah. Yahoo. Yep. Ask Jeeves, shout out. If everyone remembers Net Explorer had their own one, uh Bing, and then like uh, what was another one? That's a few other things. Safari, yeah. Firefox, do you remember Firefox? That wasn't a search engine, though, was it? No, no, I think it used Google. Oh, yeah, true. But I know I know what you mean, but it's like there is still choice, but Google just dominates the market of search engines. But you like that's what I do love about it. You have the choice to find the information. Yeah. But obviously, what is the truth? It's like, well, you might have to do a bit of digging at that stuff, is a bit trickier than before. But like we said before, you got more information, don't have to rely on one TV channel, a second TV channel, the newspaper, where it's like, you know, you've only you don't have much access, you know. What you know, whereas now it's like you can find the truth. And that's I think that's what's really shaken up the world, especially at the moment, things are fucking nuts. Yeah. And it's like the world's I don't know, I think still hasn't really come to terms with like how to manage this social media digital world. It's just so you know, if you fuck up, everyone gonna know about it, you know, if you're especially pu politically or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean like socially if you grow up really famous and you screw up, obviously people are gonna try and shit on you, but it's also like they're making the same mistakes, but they're just not publicized about it, right? Yeah, the camera. Justin Bieber, you know, yeah. He's a kid, he's young, he's growing up, but he's making mistakes, and everyone judges him because he's famous. Yeah, but everyone behind the scenes is probably doing the same mistakes, maybe even worse, maybe even not worse, but yeah, you just don't see it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I was definitely a hater for sure. Yeah, and then I was looking at it. But I was younger than stuff, but I'm like, now I'm just like, man, that poor kid. Yeah, exactly. Now we're growing up. I'm like damn, I feel bad for the guy. Man, the guy on all those talk shows getting like fucking like almost molested, like not you know, but like you know, like yeah, harassed and just some girl did say that on the show.

SPEAKER_00

She's like, Oh, I like show molested him. Or like he she she used the other word, yeah, you know, but it's like crazy that they can say that all the time.

SPEAKER_01

And it's and it's like it's all good, he's just a teenage boy, blah, who gives a fuck? He's a guy, it's fine. Yeah, it's all good. It's like okay, bro. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I used to hate the guy when I was young, you know. So I was like, ah, that's that. But now it's like, oh man.

SPEAKER_01

Sorry, man. Yeah, sorry, bro. It's like child, you had no childhood, bro. Like teenage years are gone, like you're just the industry's got you milk you for all your worth and then spit you out when they're done. Yeah, Hollywood. Brutal though.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, Hollywood's a brutal place, I think.

SPEAKER_01

When you suddenly don't serve the industry anymore, right? They just get rid of you. Yeah, goodbye. Pure and simple.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, they do that to everyone, and I think that's just the industry in general as well. They don't see the worth in you, yeah, don't even think about you the next day.

SPEAKER_01

Because you've been in this world with doing the Milan movie, and uh and have you got you don't say what have you got other offers or other things potentially at the moment that I'm doing?

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, I've got a well, I can't really talk about this. That's all right, but I do have one that I'm jumping on in two weeks' time. Oh, because I it is a Māori TV series for New Zealand, so I'm quite proud to be on that as well. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01

It's from Hollywood.

SPEAKER_00

Uh no, no, it's from here. So done by the I think it's the NZ Film Commission. Cool. They're setting that one up.

SPEAKER_01

Awesome. Yeah. Well, I don't know so much about the New Zealand film industry, like all those bits, but I just imagine like as soon as it's in that Hollywood world, like I don't know, I just feel like it's so seedy. Like there's you know, limited time, you gotta get in and you gotta be in everyone's good graces, and then if you say something wrong, it's like now you got no career.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's like it's who you know as well. Of course, yeah, you know, rather than what you know, it's always who you know because I dropped out of uni and went and did Mulan and I'd barely had any experience. Maybe some plays when I was at school in drama and all that, but it was just the people that I talked to, and then from there it just kind of went. So that's awesome, yeah. Yeah, did my first show called The Last Gun after that, met a director named James Atkin, and then he told me to come back and play in Mortal Kombat a couple years later. But for me, you know, when someone goes, I've got a project that I want to do with you, bro. Oh, it's in like three, four years' time, you're kind of like, Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Let me see that but no, he actually did it, you know? Yeah, he's actually done it and he's still doing it now.

SPEAKER_00

He's got a lot of stuff coming out 2025, 2026, so yeah. He's shot a lot of Mortal Kombat stuff, which I'm looking forward for too.

SPEAKER_01

Cool, fuck yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Did he do the first one?

SPEAKER_00

He did the first one, uh the movie, the movie. He yeah, he did the first uh we started off doing YouTube ones in COVID. So like YouTube fight scenes for Mortal Kombat. Sick. But then eventually they started hurting millions of views. So congrats to him, honestly. Like Brothers in Crime. It's if you guys search it up, it's crazy. Oh, you should check it as well. Yeah, you can see like from the first video we did, we didn't expect much. We just did it because it's a fan favorite kind of thing. They love Reptile vs. Lu Kang. And then from there, oh bro, that video hit like 100k. Okay, let's do another one. Do another one. Oh bro, this one did well. Did a third one, then eventually just keeps going and going.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah. I love that when that where if you can get on those sort of roles with um with doing the content and that. Yeah how long, speaking of the content journey, yeah, how long did it take you for things to start? I guess, I don't know. How do I there's no other way to say it? When did the views start really picking up?

SPEAKER_00

The views started picking up in COVID. In COVID, I think it started picking up.

SPEAKER_01

Because you've been content creator by that point for like what five years? Yeah, well over five to ten years.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, by the way.

SPEAKER_01

I think this is what's really important that uh when I think telling like if it's young people or anybody who wants like quick success, it just doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. So you had five to ten years of building up, I mean how many videos you have thousand videos, thousands of videos, bro. Of just uploading on YouTube almost every day, all the time, consistently going and going and going and going and going. And then one day you put up a video and it's like, huh?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it was literally just I put a video up on TikTok one day because my best friend Judah at the time, she's like, You should just go post on TikTok your funny ass. And I was like, TikTok. Like, do you remember when people were like TikTok, yeah, but musically, like TikTok?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. No, because that that platform changed, and the first time I saw TikTok, it was um it was just like it was only dancing, essentially, and I was just like, Okay, like not my thing. Yeah, but then now it's like again, it's like now like businesses are on it, this is an opportunity, it's a promotion tool, and it's like wow, yeah, it's strange how it works.

SPEAKER_00

Whenever we used to do drop shipping, the first place that we would go to, TikTok. You know, everyone's on TikTok. The market's so big on TikTok. So everyone will go to TikTok. Yeah, everyone's watching videos all the time. Sometimes they see an ad, they don't click. 90% might not, but 10% will.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but that's it, right? That's it. And that's something else with like businesses, and I'm sure I don't know if you've had this conversation with people in businesses and that because everyone's like, wait, we're not trying to grow our social media and we're gonna get all these buyers and blah blah blah blah blah. And it's like, well, social media following doesn't mean they're buyers. Exactly. You know, like you can have like 50,000 people following, but maybe only 500 are actually gonna buy, exactly, which is still great by the way, but it then you gotta be careful with metrics and numbers. Yep. And uh, you know, I kind of live in this marketing world a bit myself, so like impressions and clicks and cost per clicks and cost per views and all this stuff, and it's like you gotta be a bit careful because it's like okay, you're getting all these like views, but I mean if if that's what you want, that's cool. But it's like if you're like a business and that, it's like gotta know your strategy. Like, what do you what do you want from this? Because every business is like we want results, and it's like, yeah, but like you gotta work towards the results, you've got to build trust, you need to build authority.

SPEAKER_00

Because people do think that if I have a lot of followers or have a lot of buyers, that's not how it works. I have a lot of views, I'll have a lot of buyers. Not really.

SPEAKER_01

That's not how it works at all. It's um interesting. Like, um, and I found that even like when I'm with like different kinds of people who have uh whatever followings they've got, and also they can have a lot of numbers, but it doesn't mean people engage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's another big thing.

SPEAKER_00

Some sometimes I do, you know. I have 141, but so crazy, man. Well done. Yeah, I appreciate that. And then sometimes a video might only get like 10,000 compared to like one that got 50,000. That's fine. Yeah, yeah. Some just didn't vibe with the video, that's okay. Yeah, just next one.

SPEAKER_01

Next one. Yeah, because that's the other thing, is also I think with businesses that don't they don't get that's like everything. It needs to be it's so weird. The amount of people I've met in business that don't really understand how even economics work. Yeah, it's like the market does this, yeah. It doesn't do that, it's not just yeah, it's not just because you've done well, it's just gonna keep doing this. Yeah, it's not another.

SPEAKER_00

It's always gonna be like this, and most people as well, when they post a video and it doesn't do well on the first day, they delete it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

My vibe my video don't go viral, I have to delete it. No, you don't. Because it's still in the algorithm. If you leave it there, it might blow up. Yeah, you got no idea. One, two months' time. Some videos that I have that I just left there, 8,000 views, but in two, three months time I go back, it's like two million. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay. I didn't expect that, but it's just because the video is getting played in the algorithm all the time, bro. So you just gotta leave it there. Yeah, but people get scared that oh, they didn't reach the video. It looks bad, it looks bad on my channel, I'm gonna delete it. Yeah, you should just leave it, yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I kind of learned that lesson uh when I started this podcast more, and I and everything just kind of looked a bit crap. But I was just like, you know what? Who cares? I was like, I'm not gonna learn anything if I just have to keep like redoing silly production things all the time. Like I will have to do that as I go. Of course. Um but in the beginning I do remember I was just like, oh well, good enough. I was like, fuck it, we'll just have to as long as the audio doesn't crackle, we're fine. Yeah, yeah, you know, but I and you may you might have had that with your content as well, like, oh like shit, like this cut out and this, you know, the battery died or whatever, but it's like, oh well, screw it, it's enough. Yeah, you know, and you kind of guess what you gotta do. That's what I've learned massively from this process. It's like, oh well, all the bruises and all the you know, all the mishaps. It's like, yeah, just gotta roll with it.

SPEAKER_00

And the crazy thing is it's gonna only get crazier.

SPEAKER_01

That's the all right. I I yeah, that's what that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00

Because every day we go through crazy stuff, we expect, ah, it's gonna get better, it's gonna get better. But what's the better? What that is true. What's the better when you're relaxed? You're probably still gonna feel the same because you've still got all those things going on behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. How do you um because you're doing so many things, how how do you manage your time effectively?

SPEAKER_00

Google Calendar, bro. Google Calendar. Thank you so much, Google Calendar. Oh man, I started using Google Calendar because on there as well, you can kind of task them and then mark them off when you finish. Guess for me, that's like a little serotonin boost because it's like finished it. Yeah, yeah. So I forget about all the things I have to do. For me, I just think about oh, just want to get this done, I want to get this done, I want to get this done. Yeah, so it's just yeah, little things like that. That's how I manage my time. You must have I trick myself into thinking it's a game. You know, the tasks that I have to do are games.

SPEAKER_01

Sure, you must have to micromanage your time like crazy.

SPEAKER_00

I do my best not to micromanage, you know.

SPEAKER_01

So like 637 to 732. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I have to talk to this about this time, and then I have to leave by then. Nah, I used to be like that, but I think I was too too much. It's too much, you know. You have to keep it kind of leveled. If you do too much of something, it's not good. You know, you've got to balance it somewhere. So for me, that's my balance of uh if I don't micromanage, I just keep it what it is, I'll be okay. No, if I micromanage, I'm not overthinking then I'm gonna get all crazy, I'm gonna get stressed, and then oh man.

SPEAKER_01

Nothing good happens from the stress. No, never ever. Because even like before, um, like today, like I'd I'd replaced a light in the studio, and I was like, oh shit, it's gonna go down the road. And I'm just like, what's gonna uh even something as tiny as that? I'm like, Scott, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, also it's like it's already happened.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Your stress is probably not gonna help.

SPEAKER_01

It's really not helping, eh? Yeah, yeah. That's one thing with a lot of people's energy and people I've worked with and I find hard is like if there's a mistake or something went wrong or whatever, then people go fuck nuts, like flip the lid shit. And I'm just like, is it necessary? Yeah. But it's still like the same result, you know? So you know, come back to the martial art things, it really just helps you sort of manage those emotions even better. Do you find that? Helps you manage those kind of like emotions. Like, I don't you you don't seem like a guy to me that has outbursts really.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I definitely do mind the scenes, like it's just more like, damn, like why can't I get this right? You know what I mean? Right. Yeah, I'm so I'm real self-critical, I think. Yeah, I just not that I want to be perfect, I can't be perfect, but it's just I will have an expectation of myself for myself. Why can't it be this good? I need to do that. Why can't I take the extra step? Why can't I jump a little bit higher? But that's the thing that comes with fighting, you're always you're always trying to perfect yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Speaking of fighting, going back to that, I saw a video with you with him. I'm gonna butcher his name, Sung Sanchi San. Senshi. San Shai, sorry, San Shai. Don't watch the San Chi. Sunshine. And I was just like, damn. Yep, yeah. Bro, that guy's a legend. How was that? How was working with him? What was that like? How was the thing for him?

SPEAKER_00

How'd you meet up with him? Man, like meeting up with him really changed my ways of thinking for Muay Thai. Because I always thought, if you're the best, you're gonna act like the best. He doesn't even talk about his fighting that much at all. He literally just asks you, come have food, and then we'll do our training. You know? So lovely. Like you'd expect him to be like, Oh yeah. Sup, bro, I'm the champ. Like, nice to meet you, how's things going? He's just like, Oh bro, come eat food with us and then we'll do our pads. I'm like, What? He just treats you like another another person. Yeah, I think I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love that about the martial art community so much because there's so much of that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's so real, you know, like being a fighter is so real because all the emotions you take.

SPEAKER_01

It's such an honest environment, hey. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, your best friend's always gonna be the one that you fight.

SPEAKER_01

It's true.

SPEAKER_00

Because you both showed the real emotion on it, like whether you hate each other or not, that's real emotion. Yeah, you know, so you guys are always gonna bond off of that. Like uh Michael Isaac talking about him and Daniel.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, same thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You're always gonna have that bond because no one's fought that many times together like them. No one's gonna have that relationship that has that much mo like emo that much emotion. Yeah, if you know what I mean. 100%. That was the most realist moment for both of them. That's fragile moments. It is crazy.

SPEAKER_01

You just literally like going in there, laying it all on the line, throwing everything you've got, and because you've done it all, and then you're at the end, you're just like, oh bro, let's just let's just go like get a drink or something. Yeah, suck, bro, all the good stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like that's it's sweet. Yeah, it's it's it's what I love about that martial arts as well. It's a very honest, real environment, and I feel the world I feel has become very fugazi at times. Smoking the digital stuff, as good as it is. The bad side of that is the smoke in mirrors, and you know, like you know, people getting uh validation from things that aren't necessarily real, like getting a like likes and views, like getting a follow. It's like, you know, I I I'm guilty sometimes. I'll I'll look at my numbers and be like, oh, let me have a look. And I'm like, what does this really mean? Um it's like it's just numbers on a screen, really, at the end of for that sort of gotta um for the for the social channels. Yep. Like, and I try and be a bit careful with it because it's like, okay, like, all right, maybe this one did okay, like we're talking about before. Yeah. 10,000 views and then maybe 50,000 views. And for me, it's like, I'm like, okay, well, this got like maybe a little bit, okay, but this one didn't, and it's like, well, that's all good, bro. What about the next one? It's like like like you said, and that's like, yeah, don't want to get tired, caught up in the numbers too much. Exactly, yeah. Because you're gonna it's and it's also it doesn't really it like it, what does it really reflect? It's like okay, it blew up, but you know, people who blow up in the moment or do really well in a moment, what are you gonna be next year? What are you gonna be the year after? Is it gonna last?

SPEAKER_00

Like yeah, you've got to focus on the mission, eh? Yeah, you do. The mission I like that because people get lost in that all the time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. What is the mission, Jackie? What is the mission? The mission? Do you do you have a mission?

SPEAKER_00

I'm just living, eh? I think just trying to live is the mission. Well, to me, you are on the outside.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, you've lived like free people's lives. It's like so like it's like I said, it's inspiring. Like I think, like, especially now because you you're still 25, so you can like it's just like just using that time effectively to try everything, and then you can find out, you know, obviously you do it my my tie fighter now, you love it, you're enjoying it, you're killing it, going for the champ, going for the belt. Yeah, sick. And then um, but you've got all this experience and you've opened up a lot of avenues for yourself and having options. And I think that's what's I don't know, I feel like these days now that's more important than ever. I feel like the old traditional way of maybe it maybe I'm wrong here, but I feel like you've got to be a little bit open with your you gotta you can't just be like one thing anymore, really. Maybe a doctor, maybe you're okay. Oh, doctor, yeah, you're doctors. You'll be fine, you'll be fine. But even but you know, but being a doctor, you probably have to like learn you know, maybe one day you're a you know you're you're just a GP, but you've got to jump in the emergency. Surgery tomorrow. And it's it's a different thing. You don't even know. It's not just checking up if someone's cold or grandma's um, I don't know what's wrong with grandma, now it's like someone's leg's been cut off at a chainsaw, like you've got to be able to like switch and go, okay, you know how to do that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I feel like well, and it's a random example, but um I I just feel like now, like the way that you are going about things and the way that uh the world is, it's like the the traditional ways of what I feel like even you grew up with and I've grown up with, it's not that world's not really. It's not there anymore, it's different now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it's gonna bro, in 20 years it's gonna be even more different. Think about that.

SPEAKER_01

Like I know. Well now we're gonna have all of our own AI slaves at home, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Yep, yeah. Well, like in China, don't they have like Amazon drone carriers that like take stuff? Yeah, and Dubai now has flying cars. No way, yeah, yeah. You need to search it up, it's crazy. What has happened? Yeah, yeah, but it's like I don't know how to explain it. It's like a little helicopter, but the one is hovering above the ground. So like if you don't want to dodge you can do air traffic, it's I don't know how they're gonna manage that with like air traffic lights and all that, you know?

SPEAKER_01

I've seen the Tesla robots, I've seen those. Tesla robots. Yeah, so they've made like the actual like I don't know, like actual like humanoid Tesla robot things, and I'm just like It's iRoba!

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, yeah, yeah, oh no, someone's gonna get thrown out a window room, we're gonna have to find out who has emotions.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like I don't even know what's real anymore. It's like ah that's the thing about the smoke and mirrors. It's like, yeah. And then everyone goes to like ChatGPT to like chat about their day. Yeah, that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_00

They take information about you, you know, they learn about you and then they push it. Which is crazy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's just so weird. Yeah. I mean, these tools are very helpful, but there's also like a d a dark side to it. Just a bad tools, yeah. You know, it's like it's a convenience, but you know, yeah, they've got all your information. Yeah, yeah. I saw a great meme of like um this I can't remember what meme it was, but it was like AI taking over the world. But then this they were like this one guy they're about to like kill, but they're like, no, don't kill him. He said please and thank you with his prompts.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I saw that, yeah, yeah, I saw that, yeah, because ChatGBT remembered it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, I'm gonna keep saying please and thank you. Yeah, yeah. This seems too legit.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it it is quite legit because if you do ask questions that will answer you those questions in a certain way back.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Based off how you asked it or who you are, or the chats because I used a free trial on Chat GBT, and it does say you've run out of free like trial with this person, we're gonna put you with a different one. Yeah. What does that mean? What does that mean? Like who's that AI? With this eight, like AI robot? What? Like, what I don't even know what that means, but yeah, as good it is, it is, it is bad as well. Yeah, it's like, oh, I've got my information, bro. It's sweet. It's also like, bro, they've got your information. Yeah. Shit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, that's the I used to, isn't it? I don't know how you feel about this, but when I used to sign up to things, yeah, I used to be really fussy, like giving phone number, email address, I used to use fake ones all the time, like all that stuff. I need to probably get back on that. But I just at one point I just got complacent. I'm like, ah, fuck it. Like, all right, whatever. Like, take my email. And I'm like, ah, and the phone number thing used to that would be the one that pissed me off the most. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went to Noel leaving, and there was like, oh, we need your phone number. I'm like, why do you need my phone number? And they were like, they don't get that response. And they're just like, well, we we just we need it for the warranty. I'm like, you got my email, why you need my one why you need my phone number? Yeah. And then had like this discussion, oh we we can't give you the I'm like, What do you mean you can't give it to me? It's like you got my I was like, I felt like I was a boomer, but I'm like, no, I don't want you to have all my data.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01

But it's just funny moments like that.

SPEAKER_00

I used to actually work in all emailing as well. Yeah, so and they used to What haven't you done bro? Right. Customers used to say that too, you know? Oh really? Why do I have to give you my email for your receipt? Yeah. Just in case you lose it, we can just search up your name and then we'll come up, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, which I understand because now it's like a lot of people don't want to share their information now that we're in a data-driven world, you know. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_01

Data is gold, man. Like data is gold. Um, you know, like so I I I totally understand it, and you have to be very careful, I feel like, and even like with phones, like I've I've um only a few years ago I really got into like kind of more it's kind of boring, I suppose, but like making sure I have like virus software on my phone. Yep. Because like, bro, like it's not hard to hack the phone. Yeah, yeah. VPN, two-step authentications, all of that, bro. You gotta have it, especially for someone like yourself. Oh, have you had fake accounts been made? 100%. Oh, 100%. That must be weird.

SPEAKER_00

I think more when I'm leading up to my fights, I always get like fake accounts made and they get sent to my friends. Uh yeah, yeah. You know, just buy a ticket here, buy a ticket there. But no, I've already put the link on my official story. Like that's where you should go. You shouldn't go off these like zero followers, 12 posts, 36 following, and then they're telling you, oh, buy the link here. Yeah, this is where the tickets are.

SPEAKER_01

That must happen to you quite a bit. Yeah. That's I mean that's very strange.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, not r I don't really think about it that much. You know, it is weird. Now that I think about it, if someone makes an account of you just to try and make money off other people, it's scumbags, bro.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's too many. Um I have I do have other questions I want to ask on my list. Ah! Oh, you're in a video of Savage. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00

Right, so tell me about that. Oh, that was such a fun time. I went to the Gold Coast around Christmas time, and I met this because I was doing this mental health men's uh wellness, you know, charity and jumping in with those guys. So getting to learn what these people, you know, are going through. And it's crazy because they're all millionaires, but they still go through the same problems as we do, and they still don't know how to deal with it either. So for me being a 24-year-old, it felt weird. Why am I teaching these guys like mental health? Yeah, why am I teaching them mental health? But it's not that I'm teaching them, they just they always need someone to remind them. That's it. It's just a reminder. They haven't forgot it. It's just they need a reminder. They need someone to tell them, do more, five more sets here, five more sets there. Kind of like a PT. You only pay that person because you need them to help you, get on track. You could do it yourself, but you'd rather pay someone to help you. Yeah, you know what I mean? So I was doing that, and then one of the guys, his daughter was a film director, right? So then he recommended me to her, and then she recommended me through to her boyfriend. And her boyfriend was a director, uh, he was a film director in Australia, yeah. And he does music videos, and I saw that he followed me already. So I followed him back, I hit him up, I was like, hey bro, if there's any work around, just let me know, I'll jump on. He goes, Oh bro, we've got the shoot coming up this week. Do you want to come through? I was like, Okay, yeah, you have to listen to the song. Okay, sweet. Hey bro, Johnny, which is you know my best mate. I was like, bro, we're gonna go to this shoe, it's gonna be sick, because I was with him in the Gold Coast at the time. We went through, saw Savage, saw a South Auckland tattoo on his arm, and I was like, Are you from South? He goes, Yeah, yeah, are you from South? I was like, yo, and then we just started talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bro, he's like the nicest guy ever. I bet, I bet. Yeah, he's so sweet.

SPEAKER_01

Music legend in New Zealand, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I didn't even know he didn't live in New Zealand, you know?

SPEAKER_01

But like, yeah, I must live in yeah, I can imagine the opportunity is just better in Australia.

SPEAKER_00

Opportunities are quite crazy in Australia, you know. But uh yeah, that's how I met him. Just yeah, pure coincidence, just working, doing my own thing.

SPEAKER_01

And then you had like the video and like all the money and like crazy, and I was just like, That looks so fun.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so that was like towards the end of the music video that we did that when we were all quite tired because we've been shooting the whole day. Yeah, video, yeah, film set and stuff.

SPEAKER_01

It's big days, big days.

SPEAKER_00

And he was like, Okay, we need energy, like this is the last shoot of the day, the last part of the video. Yeah, we need the energy, and I was like, okay, sweet. Then we just started screaming Riwa, you know, like I brought the energy in, and then the people director was screaming it, and the sound guy was screaming at everyone was just having the energy there, so I guess it kept us going because we went till like 11 at night from the morning or the afternoon. Big days, yeah, big days, bro. Yeah, and a shit and it's hot and it's Australia, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Spiders and who knows. Oh, luckily I didn't see any there. I think I was too tired to, but that's good, that's good. Yeah, yeah, that's so cool though. Like you could dip your toes into the would you would you do more music videos or I mean yeah, it depends on what I'm doing in the music videos.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I'm not gonna do like that is a bedroom scene or something. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was like, whenever they offered me that, I was like, I don't want to do any bedroom scenes, yeah, anything like that. Jackie Chan didn't. Why do I have to?

SPEAKER_01

That's true. Yeah, you think about it. Maybe Jackie Chan wanted to in the Russian movie. Oh yeah, yeah, still the deleted scenes of that one there. I gotta rewatch those movies, man. I love them so much. They're so good. It's like close to my heart that stuff. It's just so funny. It's just so funny. It's just such a simple concept.

SPEAKER_00

It's like you've never seen it. It's simple, but yeah, you've never seen it before.

SPEAKER_01

It's just so good. Ah man, that's great. Um, what was another one I was gonna uh do do do do do do. Um you uh before yeah, you said mentioned that you were in the Air Force.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was in Ardmo Air Force for three years. Yeah. Uh so when I feel it's for me at the time I didn't have the discipline, you know, I was quite young, and the reason I was even in the Air Force in the first place, because my bully was bullying me for a year at school, and then I finally stood up to him because my friend taught me how to fight, and then he ended up telling my mum that I was bullying him for the year and a half. And then so my mum didn't listen to me, she sent me to the Air Force.

SPEAKER_01

Really?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but that's how I met my best mate Jesse, who is also a videographer now. Yeah, he goes by Tri-Visual. Destiny, right? Yeah, yeah. So I met him quite young, you know. So bizarre. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so if that hadn't happened, I probably wouldn't have created a bond with him or known who he was in the first place. So I guess everything happens for a reason. That's pretty crazy though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I met Jesse in the Air Force, and then eventually throughout the years, he worked at Pack and Save as well.

SPEAKER_01

So it's like Pack and Save journey.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, all the boys worked at Pack and Save together, and now that we're out of it, we're all kind of just comparing it now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So it's so great though, I think, for like for like when I talk to people of like who've you know done great things like yourself, and it's like, yeah, like we all, like what supermarket, like I used to, you know, I used to work in bars and like hospo shit, or like you know, doing tile. Oh god, bro. I think one of the worst jobs I had was tiling. Oh, tiling, bro. Tiling is hard. Why? Um, because it's like so fucking physical every day. It's like you know, you're cutting up all the stuff, making the glue. I'm like, I am not cut out for this shit. Um but that was a you know, but then I also did like um yeah, like hospo jobs. I'm Hospo would have been like spending five hours stocking a fridge in the fridge, yeah, you know, shit like that, you know. But you've done stuff like that, and I feel like all those experiences of having those kind of I hate saying crummy jobs because they're important, but when you're in the moment, it's like I don't want to do this. But if you do it, then you are like, all right, I'm driven to now like for you, probably gave you a bit of fire, being like, I need to like get my get my content, I need to do my thing, I want to do the fighting, and yeah, you know, so those jobs do them alone.

SPEAKER_00

I told Pack and Save what a different universe, yeah. I was just still working at Pack and Save, and then I was like, okay, maybe uh I'm gonna take some time off, I'm gonna go do this film, yeah, and then I'll come back. When did the film for like three and a half months, and then I came back and I quit. I quit straight away. I was like, was it satisfying? It was satisfying, but at the time I was like, I just thought I would go off of that the whole time. I'll just ride the wave, ride the wave, quit the job, and I was like, oh shit, the wave is over. Yeah, you know, because it doesn't last that long, you know. So once that wave was over, I just ended up getting to the brand ambassador job straight away. So it's like had to find different sources.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. That's also something really important to touch on about like riding the wave, like you know, also amazing opportunity to work on the Milan dude do that thing. But now it's like, yeah, you rode the wave and now it's like, well, what's the next thing? And it's like, oh, I thought I'd just be I thought that would be anything. Yeah, I thought that was yeah, that would that's that's that's fascinating to me. Yeah. With like the wave. I think one of my um favorite stories is from um, you know, the band Smashing Pumpkins?

SPEAKER_00

No, nothing.

SPEAKER_01

Uh they're like a rock band out of um America, they were very big in the 90s, but um they were like at the pinnacle, like very, very famous. Yeah, you might know some of the songs, I played them to you, but anyway, yeah. They had the the record label at the time, because they were like no double platinum albums, you know, and that's like millions and millions of copies being sold, and they're just like, you've got about seven, five to seven years, yeah, and you better work because that's gonna be over after that. And that's like, yeah, it's like, yeah, like you said, a bit of a wave, but like you gotta make the most of the wave if you can get on whatever it is, right? Like take what you can, create more opportunities. It's like what Dana White always says to the UFC guys, it's like don't just rely on this, you need to be creating brands and collabs and like doing all the stuff, and like some of those guys are amazing at it, you know, they're really, really good. Um, and I'm like, yeah, that's true. Like, you get to like, especially the martial art world, I mean, unless you're a heavyweight, maybe you've got to a 40. Um, if you're John Jones, you'll be a champion. You got to a 40, but yeah, most of the most people you've got until about 35, roughly around that. And uh you you know, like you can't you've got to be doing things outside of it, you know. Otherwise, you know, like I guess well, maybe you could be a trainer at the gym and maybe whatever, but now that you've got a bit of notoriety, a following, yeah, you know, like you're in front of people, you have opportunities to create businesses or to create, you know, opportunity especially when once you're a champion, right?

SPEAKER_00

You have the key to pretty much the whole world.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, once you become the champ, oh man, yeah. Try ride that wave as much as you can.

SPEAKER_01

The best example of this I've seen, yeah, and obviously typical I'm not being New Zealand, but Izzy. Yeah, he has done incredibly well with creating opportunities for himself with business, branding, and stuff. So marketing, marketing, property, yeah, prop property.

SPEAKER_00

He set himself up, so even if he doesn't fight, yeah, he's good.

SPEAKER_01

It's the way, and like that's a good blueprint and an example, I think, like to to look at. And yeah, and I think it's important because even like um even like fighting to it could be even like in in the arts and stuff, like you have to have something, something else. Unfortunately, this stuff it doesn't always pay well. I mean, obviously on that level it does, but like even then, like it's a one payday. It's not like a s it's not like a retirement pension fund you get for the rest of your life, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Well everyone, you know, once you get like a million, right? You just want to spend it. Yeah, no one teaches you how to money save it or invest it or do all this or that. That comes with a hundred dollars, even. No one teaches you, oh, put twenty dollars away, spend fifteen here, ten dollars on food, they just go, oh a hundred bucks, yo, I'm gonna go buy food.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean the best random example of this, but the one of the e the best examples that was just so simple, who showed this concept was um Shaq.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Shaquille, no, he got like a piece of paper and he was like, Here's what you do. And he was like, you know, you reinvest this much, like you then put this much aside for your savings, you then put this aside for like um bills and rent and whatever, and then you then have this much to actually spend. And I was just like, Man, that's it. Like, that's what you gotta do though, because otherwise it's like, yeah, you just no responsibility, just blow it all up, right? Yeah, spend it all. What about the rest of it?

SPEAKER_00

Uh MC Hammer has 33 million.

SPEAKER_01

MC Hammer, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 33 million. What do you do with 33 million, bro? How do you blow all 33 million, you know? Would have been a good time. Yeah, but yeah, would have been a short time. Good five years or good two, three years, something like that, yeah. Yeah, and then it's over, and then it's like okay. Well, that's like Conor McGregor, he's a good example. Yeah, after the fighting thing, he built the businesses everywhere else after boxing Floyd Mayweather, he just went off with the business stuff, you know? Yeah, he did. People ask him why he's not fighting. It's like if you're doing all that much business and it's all doing well, would you fight again? Probably not. And that much cocaine. Yeah, bro, bro. Stand your beast. Oh, that goes crazy. I mean, it's funny, but it's also sad. Oh, it's insane. Well, I missed the Conno legacy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I misses him up and coming and being like, there was the shit talking and stuff, but he had the you know, the amount of knockouts and crazy stuff, and Mystic Mac. I'll never forget when I I wasn't massively into the UVC at the time, but I've watched like some champ as some pay-per-view stuff every now and again. I remember watching that first Aldo, was it the first Aldo fine? Just knocked out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 13 seconds. 13 seconds, and I was just like, Oh. Yeah, this guy is it, like he is the thing.

SPEAKER_01

This is this is the man, this is the guy, and I'm just like, this is insane.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, or even Eddie Alvarez's fight. I don't know if you saw how I don't remember it right now, but yeah, I imagine there's another one like that. Knocked him out. Madison Square Garden, yeah, cleaned them, but had him dead in the headlights before because of all the trash talk, you know.

SPEAKER_01

So just got on the head way too much, yeah. Too much of the shit talking.

SPEAKER_00

Well, back then it was so easy to get in their heads. It was, but now everyone's like, oh, you're just trying to be Conor McGregor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, no one in the UFC would oh it's Chail Sunnan, that's going back a bit. I love Chail Sun. His shit talking was more like uh I don't know, was it oh he did say some pretty crazy things. What's that one about? Was it Tito or Tease? Was it him?

SPEAKER_00

And then about computers or his wife?

SPEAKER_01

No, no, no. I wasn't someone else from Brazil, and it's like, oh, I saw them in America, but they were trying to feed the bus a carrot or something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't even know they had computers in Brazil. And I was like, damn. But his one was so decorated, so it was like Muhammad Ali.

SPEAKER_01

And there was no like profanity, it was more just like very creative, funny, like entertaining shit talking, not like fuck you, I'm gonna kill you, you don't know shit.

SPEAKER_00

He's like, I'm better than John Jones, I'm better than Sean Conn. Like real, like talk like poetry. Yeah, real like him, Michael Bisping, and Connor McGregor. Have you seen that video of them roasting each other? Oh no, I'm checking out. They all trash talk each other on the UFC stage together as like an actual just then tracking talking trash.

SPEAKER_01

That's funny. Uh one of my favourite trash talkers now is um is uh DDP. Yeah, he's one of my favourites, but I know he's a bit uh, you know, obviously unfortunate with Izzy, but like the the trash talking, man, it's high level.

SPEAKER_00

I wouldn't even say he trash talks people. No, I think he just talks in ways of You're not funny, bro. That wasn't even funny, bro. Yeah, yeah, just stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

But it's like so mean that I like it. I think it's just brutal honest truth, really. The one that he did with um Sean Strookland, that first fight, and he did that laugh. I'm like, oh man, here it comes. And he's like, You think your dad beat the shit out of you?

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, God damn. That one was a rough one, eh, when he said, Oh, is that too far?

SPEAKER_01

And I'm but I'm like, I don't know. But and then the fight went into a decision, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, DDP's a nice guy too. I'm sure he is. I've never met him. Have you met him? Yeah, yeah, I met him Africa when I went to African. Oh, cool. Yeah, he's a lovely guy too.

SPEAKER_01

True.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Uh I bet he is. I mean, that's the thing about with doing I think UFC. It's like, yeah, you know, you gotta sell the fight, you gotta you gotta say the shit to try and get people interested, bums on seats, you know, you know, there's a process to it. There's a character you've got to do. Yeah. I think pretty much anyone who fights is they're you know, well, 95%. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Most fighters in general, I think, are good people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, such a humbling sport, especially MMA, kickboxing, white tie, like it's such a you know, it's only so far you can show boat really, and then you're just getting punched in the face.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, it's like it's the most brutal, honest sport, I think, because if you play off and you muck around in training, it's gonna show in the fight because you're the only one in there fighting at the time. So if you slack off in training, you're gonna show in your fight. Yeah. It's gonna show. You drop your hand in training, you're gonna drop it in your fight when you get tired. You know? So it's like it's that's why it's so honest. If you keep your hand up in training, you're gonna keep it up in the fight. That's the most honest way fighting gets.

SPEAKER_01

What's been um the for you with your learning Mai Thai and the skills you've been learning, what's been one of the harder skills to learn in your journey?

SPEAKER_00

The skills to learn in my journey is patience, I think. Patience? Patience of everything, you know. And fighting as well. Like just being patient. Yeah. Because whether it comes to just learning how to jab, kick, you get excited. You get really excited. You break your arm like me, you just get excited, you want to get back in there straight away, you want to prove yourself because you maybe you're coming off a loss, but you gotta be patient. That comes with everything. Even learning like a jab. You jab, you might feel excited. Oh, I want to have to keep doing it, keep doing it, but you gotta take time. You gotta be patient. You can't just you don't just get it straight away. No, no, no. No, you have to be patient with it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It's interesting, eh, like how you'd like when you look at uh like basic techniques like uh you know, a jab, a right hand, a hook. There's a lot more to it than uh I think people even believe. It's like, oh, you just throw a punch, it's like no, that's not a we're gonna you know, there's a whole like philosophy behind it, and if you get it wrong, it's not gonna land right, or you might even fuck yourself up in the process. Chess battles.

SPEAKER_00

It is it is chess. Mental chess, bro. Oh man, yeah. Yeah, I feel most fighters they don't get physically tired. I think it's mentally tired. Bro, I think most fighters could go 20 rounds if they wanted, but I think they just get mentally so tired because you think about before the fight, oh damn, damn, damn, I'm scared, I'm scared, oh I want to fight, oh then you get to the fight, okay, calm, calm, calm, calm. Then you get in the ring, it's like, okay, I gotta stay calm, I gotta stay calm. Oh, that's my opponent. Okay, sweet. You know, you think about everything when you think in the fight, you're like, oh, what if I get knocked out? Oh, what if I win? You can't even think that far.

SPEAKER_01

No, it's just it's like so in the far.

SPEAKER_00

It's just so in the moment.

SPEAKER_01

Not no time to think.

SPEAKER_00

Shots that have planned never happen. It's always things that I just don't even think about that happen. Yeah. After the fight, what even happened? Oh, this is the video of your fight. Oh, oh, that's it mean, like you don't even really remember it. I bet.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I bet that's what it's like. Because I yeah, be I just imagine it is you just get fight or flight kind of hitting you at the when you're in there with the or your senses are just like yeah, everything's heightened, it's like, yeah, I'm gonna this is it. Yeah, I might die.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01

What an adrenaline rush, that'd be crazy.

SPEAKER_00

Bro, if you ever get in the ring and you feel it, oh, you're gonna realize you'll be like, oh, this is what it feels like. You're gonna get kicked, you won't feel it, but you'll feel it, and you'll be like, Oh, this might hurt tomorrow. Yeah, right. You know, yeah, there's been shots that I've thrown or taken, and I'll be like, I'm not gonna be able to walk up the stairs tomorrow. Tomorrow's gonna be tough.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Interesting, interesting. Yeah, man. Fucking hell. Honestly, dude, like the journey that you've been on to me is just like it's yeah, it's very inspiring. I think, like, I think I hope that a lot of people can like take away stuff that even like you're so young as well, and you still got so much more you want to do. Yeah, like um, are you still obviously you got the Mai Thai and stuff? Like, are you are you thinking of maybe getting into anything else?

SPEAKER_00

Uh at the moment, no, I'm just focused on this belt. On the belt, I think in life I look too far for that's why I get stressed. So for me, I just need to focus on one thing at a time. Yeah, you know, because I focus on so many problems that come my way because I think too far ahead, then I get even more stressed. But now I think I just gotta take it one day at a time. Yeah. You know, I focus on the trend. Training today, focus on the training tomorrow. That's it. Anymore, I probably will stress myself out, to be fair.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I now that you sound like that when you're into a fight, I yeah, I really believe that you just can't go beyond that day because otherwise it's like it's you gotta get through that day first. Yeah, you gotta get through that before the next chapter.

SPEAKER_00

I had a good friend when I was going through a lot of stuff, and she pretty much said, you know, every problem that comes your way isn't a problem, it's an opportunity for you to do something else. You know? And I kind of like switched my mindset, it was like a little light bulb, right? Because when you think of problem, you think like a wall. Yeah, you can't get past that wall. But with that problem, it comes to opportunity. Maybe just go over that wall. Go around it. Yeah. You know, no one really looks that far. They just go, ah, there's a problem. Oh, I'm gonna turn my way back and walk around. Oh damn, I have a problem, I'm gonna turn back and restart and do it. No, you can find a different solution from that problem and move past that if you want. Yeah. If you want though.

SPEAKER_01

It is the choice of the individual when the problem comes, so how you deal with it. Do you reckon since you've kind of been pursuing with martial arts uh and fighting that you find dealing with uh with like some of those decisions, you find it easier?

SPEAKER_00

For me, um I haven't really thought much about it, to be fair, but I think it's helped business, it's helped me 100%. I don't think about it much of fighting um just because I'm always trying to focus on one thing, yeah, fighting at a time, you know. Obviously, now I'm focused on my arm, so I'm not trying to look past my arm because every time I look past it, I always end up breaking it. Yeah. And it's happened three times, so now I know maybe I should have looked past the now know. Yeah, third time now I know don't look past the arm, just take it a day at a time, bro, and it should be alright. Yeah, she'll be alright. She'll be right. Should be alright, bro. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh good. Yeah, that's yeah. I I yeah, I can yeah, I getting straight, yeah. That's one thing I've had to be careful of too stress of the future. It's very easy to just be like, oh tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00

Well, am I gonna be in 10 years' time? Yeah, we have this by 10 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's something we've got to we've got to be careful with a unnecessary stress. Being too hard on yourself, bro. Like, I think that's too much to come. Yeah, I think going back to a social media stuff, it's so much to compare to a way. You've got so much to compare. You can so easy to be like, oh, but this person's only Scott just hit like 100,000 views.

SPEAKER_00

Like, I haven't hit a hundred thousand. That'll be hilarious if that happens.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, um, I'll be like, Oh, you shouldn't be listening to this night. Yeah, yeah, I'll laugh about that when that happens. Um, yeah, but yeah, I mean that yeah, that's just I just I just imagine even like for yourself, like when you even get to like a hundred thousand followers, you'd be like, oh was that a weird moment for you?

SPEAKER_00

Well I hit a hundred thousand, I didn't really think about it. Yeah, yeah. I try I don't even think about like I did for the first 50,000 followers, I was kind of like, well, and that's oh yeah, 10,000, oh thank you guys, 20,000, oh thank you guys, 30,000, thank you guys. Now it's like I just try to look past it. Yeah, you know, after 50,000, I was like, I'm only gonna get more addicted and addicted. Yeah, and I've seen how YouTubers and all those people get once they get addicted. Like growing numbers, like Foosie Tube, do you know FoosyTube? No. Okay, uh, if you ever get the time to search that guy, he did like pranks, he was the one that created the whole prank trend. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that was huge for that. Yeah, yeah. And then once that trend died, the view started dying, he got it, he got obsessed with it. You know, and you don't want to get obsessed with that kind of stuff at all. Like you said, you know, like you don't want to look at your followers all the time. No. You know, you just want to look at them and go, okay, move on. Focus on the real mission.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, focus on like real life and what we're actually trying to achieve. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's one thing I feel I this is the part I feel sorry with like younger people, yeah. Is because this is like what they're you know, like they know how to use the tools, but they kind of I feel like treat it like it's uh real life too much, yeah. With socials, like too much, like like I've noticed that with some teenagers and stuff, and I get it, like I understand why, like that's the world they know, but it's just like, oh man, like that sucks. Like that's what you think real life is. Yeah, like this is just people showing the best version of themselves. It's not real.

SPEAKER_00

For us at school, yeah, or anything like that, you saw what you saw. That's it, you know. There was no, oh, only Scott's got an Instagram that has this, this, this, this. Now we gotta treat him like this at school. It was like Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You're already putting out the highlights of it. No one's gonna like not well, some people might, but most people are not showing like, man, I'm unemployed and I'm back at my mum's house. No one's gonna show you that, really.

SPEAKER_00

And I always think those are the proudest moments that you should show is. I think so.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, people bond more over things like that rather than like, oh, I got all this money and look at my car.

SPEAKER_00

I'm the best, blah blah blah. It's like I went through this, I went through that. Oh wow, that's like real. Like how I became best friends with my mate Johnny. We were in the gym sparring, and he's pretty much like I think we were having a conversation about something. He was like, Oh, like I don't have a dad. And I was like, Oh, me too. And then we just like laughed and then handshaked, and now we've been friends for years now, you know. Yeah, it's like little stuff. Trauma bond trauma bonding, yeah, yeah, trauma bonding! Oh bro, it's so good, dude. It can happen, yeah. Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_01

You gotta find light in the darkness, man. You gotta and you've got to laugh at it, otherwise, I think it will be a bit much.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, 100%, bro. Yeah, you've got to find people that are the same too, like that, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's great that, yeah, it's really important. Like, it's got a good sounds like you've got a great good circle around you, and uh, yeah, I think that's really cool, but like real people, not all the yes men and crazy stuff. Like, yeah, I think um yeah, I had a band on here recently, sprawl, and we were talking about it's quite funny because they were like, Oh, the new Kanye West merch and all this shit, and I'm like, I it's fucked up. That's just crazy, yeah. It's crazy. But I was like, Kanye West to me, is I'm still stuck in like 2010. Yep, where I'm like, you know, the man with music production. Uh I loved some of his music, but I was like, you know, he was you know incredible. Yeah, he came from nothing, did all this crazy stuff, elevated the stuff. Seemed illusional, but once he made music everyone understood. And it was like so impressive, you know, the production, and now it's just like, wow, it's fucking crazy. But it's sort of it's like those guys, like, um, yeah, it like had I think too many yes men around him, everyone being like, You're amazing, man. You're so good at what you do, don't change it, and he just gets crazier and crazier and crazier, and then suddenly it's like, you know what? I feel like a Jew's like, no, Kanye, no, yeah, and then and then suddenly, like, yeah, lost all the brand deals and doing all this weird shit. Went on Alex Jones podcast, made Alex Jones cringe, which I think's pretty difficult.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because Alex Jones is telling you that, oh bro, relax. It's like you must be maybe yeah, yeah. But it's like Kanye did go through a lot of stuff too. I imagine his mum died, and you know, it's I guess a lot of the I used to not believe in anxiety and you know trauma and PTSD and all that when I was quite young. But now it's like once it hits you, yeah, it's pretty real, eh? Yeah, you gotta understand everyone's in a position.

SPEAKER_01

It's amazing what you for me. Um I find it crazy what I've held on to from when I'm young. I don't know if you think about that. Like I'm still thinking about this stuff. But when I sleep and I wake up. Yeah, I know when you wake up every day and you're like, ah! But it's so bizarre. It's like, wow, that's what I'm holding on to. Like that's what's I'm you know, I'm I'm 30 now, and I'm like, wow, that's what I'm thinking about. Yeah. That's what I'm holding on to. Like, that's so interesting that like, you know, I'm in a completely different position, completely different place, whatever. And I'm like, still, we're still holding on to whatever that was from the past, and it's like it's it's bizarre. It's funny what thing and that's what you remember because I don't know, there's always if I you know, I again I try and learn and of course keep up with things and stuff, but you get a bit stuck in some ways. You do. And I notice with myself, like, you know, I'm like, it's like I said, get stuck with some things from way back in the day. And you're just like so weird. And you're like, when was that? 15 years ago. Fuck. Bro, time was moving a pretty quick. I know. Well now that's weird now. Like I for me when I hit about the age of I think I think COVID was the thing for me. That was when it like was like the time sucker. You know, I was like suddenly I was I was 25 and then suddenly I'm 30. I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What is the world now?

SPEAKER_00

I don't get it. Yeah, COVID. Man, I was 19, I think, when it happened. 20. I got off the cruise that had the uh the first case of COVID. Really? Yeah, yeah, the dream cruise. So there was two. There was the one that I came back on, and then there was the one that came back that had the COVID. Oh and that was around the same time Conor McGregor was fighting Donald Cerone. Oh, around that time. Right, yeah. So whenever that fight was was the day that the first case arrived. Yeah, 2020. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, then that must have been I thought that was was there a Porio fight that yeah, was that the year before?

SPEAKER_00

I thought that was Oh no, that was Connor and Purio, yeah. Is it the third one? When they respected each other, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the next fight after it was like Pario knocked him out, and I was just like, Yeah, sweet. That fight was crazy, yeah. It was crazy broke his ankle, like broke his leg completely. Yeah. But I think that's a pain that I don't know if I can Right. I think that's a big thing, eh? As well, that kind of affected him. Snapping your like shin. Imagine snapping your whole shin off. Like Yeah, I bet. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. That would mentally take a big toll on anyone.

SPEAKER_01

Fuck yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's some of those injuries. That's the thing about that stuff. And uh, you know, I even like like for me, I'm like, hmm, if you, you know, ever did like decide like, oh, I'll try it out, you know, you'll get in the ring, but I'm like, but what if like he lands it on this angle and I break my leg and I'm fucked. I'm like, as the risk we obviously you take. It's a risk you take, yeah. You know, so but I'm like, I'll do jujitsu and get my arm broken there instead. Yeah, oh jujitsu's good though.

SPEAKER_00

Like it keeps your brain just.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's really hard. I cannot begin to be to say how bad I am at it, but um, it's just like one of those things where like now that I've kind of gone up a little groove with it, I'm like, okay, I might keep trying this out and see how we go. But um, man, my gosh, it is just a different universe.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um that's why it's like when fighters are striking and then all of a sudden they get taken down, it's like a whole nother world now.

SPEAKER_01

They don't know what to do. Yeah, that's why the you know the Dagastani fellas are so good because their best their base is wrestling, they know the ground better than anything. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. You know, people like to mock someone like Habib with his early striking, and there's I've seen those reels and stuff, yeah. They are kind of funny, but I'm just like, but he'll get you to the ground, yeah. And you'll you're done. He'll maul you. You'll you know that's it, yeah. Game over. And he got Connor. He got Connor, yeah. And he also got Connor with a right. Yeah, he's strike. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, he just stood there and then he just threw it, bro. And then I was like, hey man, like, you know, it is what it is. You've got to respect that shit. What was that? Round two?

SPEAKER_00

Round two or three?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, the the the the punch when you're gonna be. Oh yeah, I think it was the second, yeah. Yeah because the choke was round four. Yeah, before he got choked in round four, yeah. I mean, kudos to Connor for going for that long, but uh I think I don't think most people made it that far with Habib.

SPEAKER_00

I think Dustin's the only one that was closest to putting him out, eh? Yeah. That choke, do you remember? Wow.

SPEAKER_01

But Haveeb said that um he like gave his neck to him, and I'm like, I wonder how much of that I don't know, but yeah, just jumped the gilly. I love that, it's so funny. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Almost had it eight.

SPEAKER_01

Almost, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That would have been like different universe if that happened. That would be very crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And um I saw of um an interview with Dan Hooker, and he was had a really good take on like saying like Habib has created this incredible mystique about the Dagastanis because he was undefeated. Um, and then obviously um Habib's dad, rest in peace, created this amazing uh you know uh group of fighters. I mean, the records are insane. Yeah, all of them combined, all of them combined. I think they've only lost like two for something crazy, right? And I'm just like, wow, like um, and uh so when people look at these Dagastani guys, everyone's like, oh shit. It's the Dagastani. You know, the Dagastanis, yeah. So it's created this like quite crazy like yeah, mistake, and they obviously you know everyone in gyms around the world work hard and they train really hard, but you know, like there's now this like kind of ooh, like you're going up against someone from Khabib's gym. Good luck with that.

SPEAKER_00

Like, oh shit, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, good luck.

SPEAKER_00

It's like what? It's like yeah, he's gonna have more you bro. What? Yeah, just because all that's all Kabib did.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the like I still think, in my opinion, Islam is better than Habib. Islam is that's the same. I think he's got more skills. He's fighting soon. Um, he's not on any fight. There's the big talk of him and Ilya, but I don't think it's happening. Yeah, no. I think Elya's gotta do a fight or two before, which I think that's right. Like, you gotta you gotta prove yourself. Yeah, yeah. You can't just fight the champ.

SPEAKER_00

Oh boy, he's good, eh? Man, those hands are scary. Boxing is crazy.

SPEAKER_01

A tear might have come down my cheek when the max fight. Oh, the max fight, also. Oh, you so I saw the video you made of it. I was in Africa when the uh max fight happened, and I was like Actually, now that I remember I saw the video you put up and I'm like, yeah, I feel that too.

SPEAKER_00

But the Volk one for me, I was like, Bro, yeah, he's fighting soon. Yeah, Volk fighting soon.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, this will come out afterwards, but um that'll be amazing. But yeah, man, I'm just like, please don't. Yeah, my heart can't take it.

SPEAKER_00

Oh bro, that's a good fight, eh?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it'll be awesome. Yeah, he's those guys are such a such a high level, man. And being at that level for that long, that's just I don't know, man. You gotta be you gotta be, yeah, you're gonna be built different.

SPEAKER_00

That's why when UFC fighters, like even if they're ranked number six or seven and someone goes, Oh, this fighter is shit. I'm like, bro, you try spar them then. Yeah, yeah, you try jump in the ring, you try spa them, see how that goes. Oh yeah, 100%. Even someone that's had like two, three fights, it's like Yeah, you try you try. Oh, he's shit, you know? Bro, at least he's in the ring.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you try. Yeah, you jump in the ring. Yeah, you try.

SPEAKER_00

Can you last a minute?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you're just gonna gas out and just get absolutely destroyed.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's like um, yeah, people judge fighters all the time, even if they had one or two or three fights. It's you jump in there.

SPEAKER_01

It just doesn't, uh you try it yourself, yeah. See how it feels. Yeah, yeah. That meme of like yeah, people like sitting back being like, you should have thrown a jab and a cross, and it's just warriors, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Big belly with chips and a drink, and it's like they they do judge like that. It's like, why didn't he block? Why didn't he judge? Bro, why didn't he see that punch? I would have seen it. It's like, would you? I don't know if you would have. Yeah, it's like, why don't you fight this guy? It's like, why don't you fight him? Well why do I gotta fight him? You know, it's like, yeah, yeah. So people do that all the time. Couch warriors, they always judge, and that's okay. That's the opinion. That's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And also I find it funny, um, specifically with UFC and MMA, when people are like going to the ground and everyone's like boo, and I'm like, bro, it's MMA. Yeah, I don't know what go watch. You came to MMA to watch MMA, go watch it, go watch one then, yeah. Yeah, I don't get it. So when people are like boo, I'm like, you're in wrong sport.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Wrong sport, yeah, facts.

SPEAKER_01

Like, yeah, I don't so I always find that weird when people do that. I mean, look, there's some moments with the resting against the cage, I'm like, I get it, because I'm like, now they're just trying to uh waste their uh take the clock down, yeah, you know, but when it's on the ground, I don't know, I think it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00

Like, but yeah, it's like Joe Rogan just explaining every move because he knows every single move, so we learn it's cool, and it's a lot, but like when uh yeah, when people are boo, I'm just like bro, it's MMA.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I don't know what you expect.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, did you ever see that fight with Izzy versus who's Gaslam? No, not Gaslam. Not Paulo Costa. That was brutal that one. That was a brutal one, yeah, yeah. Uh what was the bold guy, bold guy, yoel Ramiro. Oh yeah, yeah, and people are like saying that's like the most boring fight. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, bro, have any of them connected at that time?

SPEAKER_01

You seem game over trying to like suss each other out like I remember I saw a really funny post as well with like um on a comment, sorry, it was like a uh a montage of some of Izzy's kickboxing fights, because dude, this guy, you know this, he was undefeated in like a hundred fights. This is fucking insane. I saw him kickbox, and obviously, you know, he's out there striking, doing his thing. Everyone's like, why doesn't he fight like this in the UFC? And it's like there's takedowns, bro. If he does exactly what he does, he's gonna get taken down. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00

You dumbass. Why don't you go at Joao Romero? Bro, if he goes straight, Joao will hit him. Why does Joao go to Izzy? Because if he does, Izzy will counter him and get him. It's like they're trying to play the game, they're trying to play smart.

SPEAKER_01

Yao Moreira's like in his 40s as well, and I'm just like, how?

SPEAKER_00

He's still fighting now. He just won a fight last week. I love that like post fight. It's like people pay for the paper. People pay because people want to stay. Yeah, it's like, oh man. He's character. Yeah, yeah. That guy's a yeah. You've seen his podcast that he jumps on as well. Oh no, yeah. He's jumped on um Joe Rogan two or three times. Oh, true. I haven't seen it. He's always had Joe. Do you know Joey Diaz?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, I love Joey Diaz, bro.

SPEAKER_00

That guy's the best.

SPEAKER_01

That guy's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00

He's been through some things, eh? Yeah, yeah. His stories are insane. Yeah, he's a crazy one. But it does motivate me, eh? Hearing his stories of all the stuff that he's gone through. Yeah. To make it out alive now.

SPEAKER_01

That's what I love about podcasts, is you just like you get these people who maybe you think like, oh wow, so successful, do all the stuff, and you're like, oh shit, they had to go for all that. Man, my life's not that hard at all. Well, I can't compete. Yeah, I'm just like, what am I complaining about? I'm fucking I gotta get it together, you know? I didn't have to be a good idea.

SPEAKER_00

He's just a comedian, or he's just a podcaster. Yeah, bro. Yeah. You don't even see what went into it, you know, you just see what the end product is.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's what everyone likes to measure to, right? Yeah, measure out the end product, no one that's why I love like the little nitty-gritty stuff about the journey, because I'm like, how did you, you know, like I want to know the stuff because that's the important stuff. It's like, oh yeah, I was broke and I had to fucking do this for fire, make videos for 10 years, and then I didn't even get paid for like the whole time. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't even know you could get paid.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Until Jimmy Jackson talked about it on Facebook like ages ago, and I was like, oh, you can make money off this?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Now I'm gonna try.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he's an OG man as well. Jimmy is an OG for sure. I remember watching um, I think it was on no, it was on YouTube randomly. Like a video came up with her making like a little skit about going to like the club in New Zealand, and I was just like this is like long. Ages ago. Oh, yeah. I think he was on like a video on his iPad or something. It's just him talking to himself on his iPad, and I'm just like, I'm like, I'm like, that's pretty true. Yeah, and then I'm like, oh wow, this guy is yeah, which is great. Um, you know, like just seeing people like that sort of take off, and I'm just like, wow. And look at him now. Amazing. Oh, good on him, man.

SPEAKER_00

It's a grind with everything, he's done it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's all the time. That's one thing about the content game, I suppose I want to ask you as well, is like it's relentless, right? Yes. How do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_00

Day by day, especially especially with the content stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Because it's it just it's a bottomless. Quantity just all the time. And you do heaps. I know I see how much you put up, I'm just like, man, but I don't know how you do that.

SPEAKER_00

It drives anyone insane. So I guess you've got to find the balance for yourself because it's always different with everyone. Like maybe you'll do 10 videos and you'll be okay, that's my limit. Some will go, I'll do three, that's my limit. That's okay. You know, so you gotta find that balance for yourself. Because I think it's different for everyone.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, do you do you have a limit?

SPEAKER_00

Uh I try to do one a day because I used to edit three videos a day, and I think that drove me pretty crazy. Yeah, that would. Yeah, because uh when I first started TikTok, I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna post three times a day for two weeks. If I don't blow up, that's fine. If I do, I do. I blew up on that one week, and then from there I started dropping a video every day.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And it just didn't stop for two and a half years, and I think it just kinda made me go a little crazy. Yeah, it would.

SPEAKER_01

It would make you go crazy. Yeah, because I look at that stuff and um because like for me, I have a process of doing my videos and content as well, yeah. And I'm just like, fuck, I gotta be careful of this, like not to get like overwork or like burn it, or then overthink it, and then suddenly nothing gets released, or like some things like I don't know, it's like, oh, you know, faffing around. And then it's like, oh, just fuck it. Like it's gotta just, you know, it is what it is. But that's a crazy work ethic doing that.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And again, that's what I like to hear, you know, like this is the stuff that I feel like people need to hear. It's like you need to put you know, post three times a day, all the day, putting out this content, writing scripts, doing the thing, you know, and that's what is so cool. Someone like you.

SPEAKER_00

Even if I'm not gonna make the video, I still write it down because who knows? Somewhere along the lines, I couldn't meet someone that relates with that video that I can do with them. Yeah, right. So it's like write down BJJ one and then one day, oh Scott, I wouldn't use me for I have a white belt in BJJ. I'm like, Scott, I got a perfect video for you. I wrote half a year ago. Let's do it. Yeah, I've got half a white belt in like Scott, let's do this, let's do this. Yeah, so it's like stuff like that, bro. It's like I just always you just you gotta write it down. Yeah, I think it helps 100%.

SPEAKER_01

But just yeah, I just it's just the real the bottomless pit of content is just insane. There's so much of it. There's so much of it, and like you can put out so many, and like I found a nice routine for myself with how I do it, and I'm like happy about it, but I'm like, I'm like, yeah, like I'm because also with the with my little backstrown podcast, I usually want every week, but I'm like, I can't keep doing this. Yeah, I'm like, I can't do it, yeah. And I'm like, and then I'd have people on, and I kind of like just kind of have a bit of a shit, not shit chat, but it was like just I'm like, I'm not engaged enough. I'm like kind of thinking about other things, and I'm like, hmm, the quantity is getting sacrificed now, yeah. And now I'm like, no, no, no. I've sorry sorry, the quality is being sacrificed, and I'm like, nah, I'm gonna I'm changing this, and it's been great since then, but for a while I was like, yeah, all the time. But I just I just personally couldn't keep doing it like that. But what was the

SPEAKER_00

Thing that made you change it because obviously there had to be a moment where you're shooting the podcast where you're like, Oh, yeah, maybe I need to switch it up now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was probably like after like seven, eight months of doing it, and it's it used to be called the Only Scots podcast. It was actually two of us, yeah. Um, but then yeah, he left, he had some health issues and had to bail, and I was on my own, and then I was and then trying to find guests, and I did I used to do solo ones, I was trying a whole bunch of stuff out, and I was just like, I'm not enjoying this much. I'm getting a little bit like and you know, working and doing all these other things, you know, on top of it. Yeah, yeah. And I'm just like, this isn't sustainable. Yeah, this isn't sustainable, so we need I need to like change the script of this, and then ever since it's been good. Yeah. Um, but you know, maybe it's like, well, if you posted more, maybe you'd you know, maybe you'd grow faster. And I'm like, ah, fuck that. Yeah, I don't care. Yeah. Um, I was like, I want to do this my way. Um, and that's something else with like I think with social media, you've got to be like I think businesses fall into this. Talking about a little bit before, but you can kind of fall into this, like, oh, like this is what the trend is now on the platforms of like posting this kind of stuff and like doing this a lot. Um, what am I trying to say? Like, if you follow what the trends are on the platforms of how you post or things like that, maybe you'll grow really quick and blow up, but it's like, but now it's not really you like you've just kind of copied a template rather than like, oh, I'll do it my way, and maybe it is like slower with how it grows or whatever, but it's gonna be better, and you're gonna have a better base. Yeah, that's kind of what I decided in that moment a few years ago. Um, but I did realize that because obviously, you know, you know Gary V, right? Yeah, yeah, and he's just like we're gonna be posting every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I'll try that, and I'm like, I can't.

SPEAKER_00

Because it's different for everyone. Yeah, yeah. You know, all he's trying to do is give you solutions to people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and most people just don't want to work. I mean, that's what that's what you know probably the most. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They want to find an easy way. Ain't no easy way, unfortunately. Yeah, what is it? It's like the quote that's like the road to hell feels like heaven. Oh yeah. And the road to heaven feels like hell. You know, so if you take everything in that's oh happy moments now, it's not gonna be there in the end. You've got to kind of struggle, and in the end, you kind of you can be happy in the end. But you're gonna go through so much struggle for a say. Like probably what you're going through now for you to even have a happy moment now.

SPEAKER_01

Oh honestly, man, like I appreciate you saying that. Um, but I'm not, I'm doing, I'm doing great. Um, but it's it's it's interesting. I I think what really resonated with what I've heard you want saying on the podcast is having like a tight-knit crew around you and you guys help each other and stuff. Yeah, I've got an amazing missus, and like my life's fucking cool. She's my biggest fan of the biggest fans. It's great. But like I think one of the things for me is like I've got some good friends, but we know everyone everyone's on their different paths in life, but no one's really starting their own thing, which is fine. But it just means that it's like more lonely, I suppose. It is, yeah. And um, that's been sometimes a bit tricky. So it's like, oh, I feel really alone, like it's hard to talk about this stuff um at times, but now I'm just like, oh, I've I'm you know, everything's all good. Yeah, um, been working hard on what I'm doing, and I'm like, the only way to get there, work. Yeah. Just a focus. And I've got to yeah, on the mission, like you say, and it's so true. And then like I've got I've met so many awesome people on here, and having you on here is amazing, and then like having so many, like, and having like, yeah, like a good like I'm like, oh yeah, I don't feel alone at all. And then every time I talk to people from athletes to you know, creative types, musicians, artists, people in film, everyone's going through the exact same thing. That's what's like what brings everyone together when they try and you know, you're trying to set up your own unique uh whatever the thing is. Yep. And I love that. And I'm like, oh, we actually all are the same, kind of the same. We're all going through that lonely, um, what's it called? Chris Williamson has got a podcast, Modern Wisdom. I really like him, but he talks about like the lonely chapter, yeah, which is like before you get to the place you really want, or whatever the mission is, the mission, right? And uh like there's that lonely chapter.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I was like, man, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's just gonna be that road you take that no one's gonna understand until you show them. Yeah, not because they don't understand what you're talking about or that they don't believe in you, it's that they can't see it. But you can, yeah, yeah. You know, so once you make it happen and you make it work, they can see it, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Hard out, yeah. All right, man. Um, let's do some quick fire questions before we leave. I'll I'll give you some I'll give you some questions. Alright. Um, what is your favorite cheat meal?

SPEAKER_00

My favorite cheat meal uh my favorite cheat meal, anything fried chicken. Fried chicken. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Anything particular particular like Korean fried chicken?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, Korean fried chicken, yeah, yeah. 100% bulgogi, I don't know. Oh, dude.

SPEAKER_01

Dude, have you had ziggle? No, what's it's it's a Korean um like burger place, but yeah, is it in Auckland, yeah, yeah. One of Mount Eden, but yeah, like good, dirty stuff, right? But yeah, bugogi, like cheeseburger, and then like um uh fried chicken and stuff. Yeah, have you tried fried chicken at Pocha? Yes, bro, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Bro, bro Porcha fried chicken's on Pocha's bros. Yeah, for sure. It's easy place and just everything's there.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, yeah, nice, nice. Um uh who is the most famous person you've met so far in the case?

SPEAKER_00

Famous person of myth. Uh of all time? San Chai San Chai, yeah. I think San Chai of all time.

SPEAKER_01

He would be, right? Yeah, 700 fights?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. I'm just bro, something crazy like that. Hey, yeah, he fought two weeks ago, so it's like bro, how are you still fighting? Different breed of people, man. Different breeding. Some people just don't come out of their prime. Yeah, he's still in the prime, bro. He's still in the prime. That's amazing. Yeah, I guess he would be.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's that's so that's fucking cool. Um, what is oh, I like asking this. What is the worst piece of advice you've ever been you've said you've been given? That I've ever been given? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

The worst piece would probably be give a hundred percent of your energy to everyone because you can't, you know, you only got a hundred percent yourself, and so you gotta pick and choose where you give the energy to people. Love that. That's something I didn't understand in the first part. I just thought I shouldn't give people my energy. Yeah. When it's like you gotta pick and choose like who you give your energy to because you've only got a hundred percent during the day and at night, so you gotta try and make it work like a battery. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

No, I love that. That's that that yeah, I like that one, that's cool. Um pick something out of the air. Um what is what is uh what is what do you sorry, what do you do to relax?

SPEAKER_00

What do I do to relax? I hit pads. I hit the boys off and I'm like, bro, we gotta go hit some pads, we gotta go do some bag work or some sparring row. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

As crazy as that sounds, that's what helps me relax. Helps you relax. Yeah. Okay, what about afterwards?

SPEAKER_01

What about what about like okay, what about you've done your workout and stuff and you need to just you know, chill. Chill? What do you do? I like to have DMCs with the boys.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I love that. Yeah, I feel like that relaxes you. Nice, yeah. Because you're just down, you're finished training everything, you're tired, and whatever's gonna relax you even more is just having that talk with the boys. Nice, yeah. All girls, yeah. Yeah, while you're bleeding and like black eye, yeah, yeah. You're cut in the face, you're like, Oh bro, that was a good shot. Yeah, you too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Love that. And um uh one more. Um, what can we expect from Jackie coming up in the future?

SPEAKER_00

What you got going on? Oh, you're gonna see a lot of belts around my waist. Woohoo! Yeah, I think that's the goal. Um one championship? I don't know. I uh when I first started fighting, yeah, that the goal was to be the best, but now I think it's just to live my life. Yeah, just to do it so I can continue maintaining my life and who I am. Because yeah, through everything that I'm doing, you there's a lot of you know, you go through a lot, and you got a lot of demons as well. And I think the best way for me to get it out is fighting.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, I d that's the healthiest outlet I think for I mean for men and women, but I feel like for men in particular.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, at first I was like, I want to be the best champion number one here and there, but then as the years gone by as a fighter, I just I think I just need it to maintain myself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Totally understand that, bro.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, dude, thank you so much for coming on and taking time out of your day. And um, you know, I really this has been so fun. I've learned so much. I've been more inspired to do things, I will go to the gym. Yeah, yeah. And um, dude, best of luck with all the things you pursue. And hey man, hopefully we can catch up again in the future. Right, of course. Yeah, I'll bring the button here as well. Yeah, man. So thank you so much, Jackie, and thank you everyone for listening. We'll call it there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, easy. All right, cheers.

Contributor

Scott McDonald-Bull

Host