EP #74 - Business Owner, Podcaster & Educator - Luke Kemeys

A new subject for the podcast! Let's talk about business, money, and finance, and there isn't anyone better than the man Luke Kemeys. Luke is a business owner of Next Advisory, he's a podcaster at Keep The Change, a financial educator, and a bit of a lad. We had an awesome chat about Kiwis' mentality with finance, how people think about money, the new NZ budget, the benefit (welfare) in NZ, growing businesses, the NZ property market, and so much more.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And I'm here with the people's accountant, Luke Keemies. Is that right, Luke Keemies? Close enough, mate. Damn it. I was like, I'm so bad with names. Yeah, don't worry. Thank you so much for taking for time for me. Yeah, no worries. Good to be here. Wanna talk about the first thing, very basic. Why is it so hard for us to get a handle on our finances?

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Oh, I think part of it's psychology. And then I think part of it is the consumer world that we live in, and then the debt world. So we're basically constantly marketed to to spend, and then we're constantly marketed to that it's all good to spend more than what you have and pay it back over time. And you basically can't buy anything in this day and age, property, a vehicle, you know, within reason, um, even you know, consumer finance, consumer product, shoes, and shit without debt. And it's normal to do that. And I think for a long time it wasn't, but we haven't really educated people well to deal with the debt-based world, I think.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Hmm. Especially with things um like afterpay becoming super common, you know, and even like um what's like with what's all more like with the deliveries at the moment? Was it is it Uber? Was it Uber Eats or something? I can't remember something like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Delivery easy, maybe the burrito story or something in the States, or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah, like you can just put that on like an like like something similar, like afterpay, and it's like what installed. But that's just how bad things are getting with people just wanting to like no one has money to like pay things even up front to get a burrito delivered.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

I mean, it's scary. Even when I was working uh in Harwitter, so this is probably going back nearly 10 years ago, probably longer. Um, I remember a Gem V, no, it might have been Q Card or Gen Visa, or someone came out and was sort of like you can go to countdown or New World or something with your card, and everyone was a bit like, whoa, what the fuck? You can finance your groceries. But I guess people are probably already doing that on credit cards anyway, and then I always pay it back on time, and that's you know, rabbit hole as well. But um, it's just there's 940,000 users of buy now pay later now, and and 42% of people have multiple accounts.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

That's in New Zealand, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Shit, that's a lot of the population. Yeah, there's two million individual credit cards as well, and then you think like how good data is, algorithms, marketing. Um, you you understand that space. It's just basically like here's more money than you actually have, and then now good luck fighting us, taking it from you, because we're experts at it and we know you and we know you well, and we're gonna get the shit in front of you so that you hand us your money, and then good luck like providing for your future and getting ahead. Sounds bleak, but I think that's like simp simple. That's probably what it looks like for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah, for sure. And um, yeah, for people who um who've have maybe not heard of you, you've because you've been doing your podcast now for five years, keep the change, yeah, which has been awesome. And then you've also been doing your your um you've got your business next advisory as well. So you're very integrated into like the New Zealand business space and even with the everyday, you know, Kiwi, everyday person. For the last five years, now that you've been involved, what what's something like a a common we'll talk about a lot about debt now, maybe it's also that, but is there something else that sticks out with like something that Kiwis do in particular that we seem to be like um making life harder for ourselves financially?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

I think we think really small, and you know that's probably confronting for people to hear, but you know, I didn't travel, I don't have any aspirations of doing OE, spark that, keep those, you know, I don't need to do that. And then when I started getting out of New Zealand and looking at how different countries do things, getting to the states, getting into business, getting some data from people doing really well, and and then realizing shit, like I didn't it's like pulling over a rock and realizing that actually the whole time, you know, all these crabs are sitting under there and you're sort of sitting there thinking that that there's nothing around. But I think because we're such a small nation, we are um we're it's very hard for us to see globally, or that we could have something that could you know be a small idea and but it might be really valuable internationally, and I think we're scared to go out of our comfort zone because then we're gonna stand out, and it's actually quite easy to stand out in New Zealand, and then you get obliterated if you do something wrong, so then that's scary, you know? Yeah, yeah. Um of that shit, and so then it's really hard for us to like have big aspirations, and I think that that holds us back a lot. But I do think there's a younger generation coming through, you know. I'm 37 now, um, and and and not all of them are uh like that. They're sort of looking at it, being like, oh, something's a bit weird over here. Um, and they're probably a bit more in tune, maybe staying off the grog, uh, maybe you know, sticking to a debit card rather than credit, uh, really interested in in like festivals and experiences and stuff, questioning is uni the right thing. So, yeah, I don't know, I feel like it's slowly changing, uh, but I can't, I guess I'm not that age, so I don't know. But just from the interactions that I do have, but I do think this in this country encourages us to think really small and to sort of think that like the governments know what they're doing and that they've got this master plan and that we can rely on them and that everything's sweet, but I think we know subconsciously like everything's not sweet, but we don't really know if we have enough power to do something about it.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yeah, no, I really like the way you summed that up. I think oh yeah, I I saw a video you did with um I forgot the young guy's name who does the car cleaning uh business. That's so cool because it's so simple, and um, this also leads me to something, another point that you spoke about in another video, which I was like where all the money is in New Zealand and who has it. And obviously, we know it's gonna be the older generation, uh the boomers and stuff, because they have all the assets, they've obviously hoarded a lot of money for a long time, they got to you know reap the rewards of the days of when things are a bit better, I suppose, in the economy. Um, but like I I suppose, like, yeah, because I because I I think if you are Gen Z and even the Gen Alpha, so like that would be is that 17 years old Gen, I don't know. Is that Gen Alpha now? I can't keep up, man. All these generations changing. Yeah, yeah. But I suppose the world that they're brought up with compared to even the world that like we were brought up with, and like the messaging that's told us, oh, you go to uni, you get the job, you get the thing, get the house at this time, and like it's all like the plan's laid out for you, but the plan doesn't work anymore. Yeah, the traditional plan, I think it's a quite hard for a lot of people, because I'm um I'm 30 myself, so yeah, like I was kind of told the you know traditional route, and I even thought it was a bit strange when I was younger, because I'm like, but what if I don't want that? What if I don't like that? You know, so I I didn't go to well, I went to uni for a little bit and dropped out, but I sort of noticed when I was there, just because you have a degree doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna unlock opportunities. No, you know, and that was quite a big thing for me. And I think with like when I talk to I've had a few younger people on here who are like in film and then do bands and that, and they're definitely a bit more switched on entrepreneurial, especially with the social media stuff, and um like they just kind of know what you need to do to like get yourself out there to hustle a little bit. Um whereas I think before it was more, yeah, like the the traditional route was sort of like this is what you do, and it's always worked for the past whatever how many years, and it's not the case.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Yeah, I guess the traditional path that you're probably talking about, or how I would interpret it is basically good job. Um, sorry, good education means good job equals good income equals good mortgage equals good life equals good ability to get a rental property equals good retirement. Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Yeah. But I think what broke along the way is that we monetized housing and we basically said to people, um, let me give you an example at the moment and then step back to help people understand. So the budget came out recently, right? And basically about that as well, but go on now. It says that wages will increase by roughly two and a half percent uh each year for the next four years, but house prices will increase six percent each year for the next four years. Well, what would you rather do? Would you rather have a property that goes up six percent each year and you don't have to pay tax on, or would you rather work and get less? Now, one, the income is locked in the housing, right? So you can only use that income if you can borrow against it in the future, and it does actually go up like that, but you work and you get it. But basically what we're saying is, well, we're gonna that the economy favours asset holders or householders, but what like yeah, anyway, um if we if we step then back, you would probably do the same thing, and I probably would too. If we and I even got into this path, then I was like, no, this ain't for me, it's boring, and it's like I'm too entrepreneurial, I need to be going faster and bigger and doing other shit. Uh, but for the average person, they probably think, well, why would I work to get a two and a half percent pay increase when I can get a six percent gain on my property? And what we allow people to do is go back to the bank and say, Hey, I bought this property for $300,000, it's now worth six hundred thousand. I would like to borrow another fifty thousand dollars, and I would like to go on a trip, I would like to um you know buy things, I'd like to do my debt, and I'd like to add value to my property, and then the property ends up worth six hundred thousand a year later, or it might go back, and in that time you've been able to service that debt. Now you are effectively earning what's called economic income, or that's what some people would term it. So your assets are increasing in value, and then you do have the ability to borrow. If if the system basically said, No, you can't borrow against that, yeah, your house price is going up, but no, we're not going to give you more debt. We probably wouldn't be in the situation that we're in. So our parents and the uh the baby boomers have had a beautiful run over the last 40 years of house prices increasing. And they will say, No, but we had high interest rates. Cool, okay, yeah, we get it. But you had low levels of debt, you had low levels of debt to income compared to where we are now. So we just kept the balloon going. And when it breaks, we go, we look around and we go, buck, it's an emergency, we better um flood money into the system. And then what are Kiwi people do? Should I better get more houses? I better bid up houses.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Scarcity mindset.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah, yeah. The uh the the um the interest rates are low, I'll borrow more, I can do travel and whatnot. So anyway, now we're in a position where all the baby boomers, they they have the wealth. Now, as you said, obviously, well, they do because they're older, they've had longer to accumulate assets. And I'm not saying that they haven't worked hard or that it's you know it's unfair. It's just once you see what's happened, you sort of go like, ah, this everything starts to make a lot more sense. Okay, why don't these people say um no, start a business and have a go at that, you can do better. Well, why would they? They're like, I got fucking three rentals, mate, and I crushed it. Well, I'm and it was easy. I didn't have to do, I just had to, you know, make sure the tenants were paying every now and then they didn't pay. But look, my houses were worth 200 grand, now they're worth 1.2 million. I'm not starting a business, you know. So now I think we're seeing people come in and go, I can't play that game because I can't even build the deposit. So what game am I gonna play? Oh, maybe I'll play the social media game, maybe I'll leave New Zealand, maybe I'll go live in Bali and do something digital and use um currency arbitrage, maybe I will uh do something entrepreneurial and sell to the US. Or people are looking for different paths, but most people don't even know that this is happening, so they're just going, well, this is shit. I want what they had, and I want the Kiwi dream and I want the same path, and I was told that do the good, the good, the good, the good, and I'll be good.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

I'll be rewarded for it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

But it ain't working. And so I think there's a bit of a the problem is like once you see it, then you have to pick what do I do about it. Now you can complain and say the government should be doing this and whatnot and whatnot, and and that doesn't happen, then you're gonna be able to do that. Government's gonna save you.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

We would like to think that they'll just do that. We'd like to, but they're not going to, no. Yeah. And I think we haven't educated people what is it that we can be doing. And then the argument of what is that people can be doing, everybody has different answers, but each of us just have to find our way within the the system that that we we live in effectively.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

I think I was gonna I'm interested to talk to you about, especially is in times that I feel like it's expected now, if you want to try and even make, you know, get get the house deposit, you need to be entrepreneurial. Like let's say you're starting like at a young-ish age. Because it's relying on a full-time job unless you do have, you know, a a very good, high-paying hundred thousand, two hundred thousand. Even a hundred thousand, that'll be quite hard to get a house deposit even then, which is kind of crazy to think about. Especially in Auckland, yeah. Especially in Auckland, definitely. But I wanted to kind of like talk about being an entrepreneur in particular. Like, does everybody need to be an entrepreneur? Because like the whole idea is uh I fought with how people work is that we don't want everybody to be entrepreneurs because you need people in certain skilled sectors and working these jobs that we so desperate are essential services as such. Yeah, you know, it's like do I want my doctor having a side hustle? Like, I don't know. I mean, cool, but like I'd rather him like be the man as a doctor, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's a good point because I think what's happening is there's people like me and other people who are louder than me saying, Oh, get out there and and be entrepreneurial and be a business owner and whatnot, but um it I'm not saying that everybody should do it, and I don't think these people that are saying this are saying that too. What they are trying to do is wake up people who could be doing it to help them find their path and go, well, this does exist. But realistically, like not everybody wants to be a business owner, right? And and if if we think about it, you know, like if everybody was a business owner, yeah, what what would the world look like? But it's kind of, I guess, I'm just trying to think of a good analogy, but you know, it's like if we tell all kids that they need to play rugby, like they're not all gonna be all blacks, there'll still be, you know, people that go, you know what, I'm not very good at this, I would rather do the coaching or I'd run rather run the water. And people need to uh find what it is that they want to do in life and be fulfilled and be happy with that, but there's there's probably no greater skills than entrepreneurial skills. So you could have a job and then know how to make ten grand throughout the year if you need to and if you want to, and I think that puts a lot of power back into the hands of somebody rather than going, oh no, you're fucked because you're an employee and you don't get paid enough and you're only gonna get a two and a half percent pay increase. And by the way, inflation's here and you didn't learn about that, so like good luck to you. Yeah, and that's I guess the where I think the conversation gets muddied. Of course, not everybody's gonna be a business owner uh or an entrepreneur, but I think a lot of people have more ability to increase their income than they realize. But we are sort of marketed to that. You shouldn't have to, because for years you didn't have to. No, you didn't have to, and your parents could have one income and have five fucking kids and buy a house and stuff and survive 18% interest rates and whatnot, but now we have avocado on toast and uh no kids and have to pay for fertility treatment and stuff because you know we've left it so late and whatnot, and it's because we went on OEs, and there's just like no real understanding, I guess, uh, of what's happened to debt and to money. And yeah, I so yeah, I I feel sorry for people that just want to have a good life and ignore all of this shit and earn a good income, say a nurse or a teacher or something that's really passionate about it, but they like cap out, and then they're like, But but I'm really good at this, and we you know, we want those people to be working in their strengths and what they're good at and be rewarded for what it is that they do.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Yeah, no, yeah. Um I also speaking about a lot of this entrepreneurial things being like privatized a lot as well, and so much of what we do, especially when we when you're talking about nurses and teachers, you know. Unfortunately, we've had a last five years everyone's flown over, right? Gone over Australia of opportunities, because unfortunately in New Zealand, it's just not a great place to work uh if you're in like the health sector, specifically as a nurse and being a teacher, like hard jobs, hard hours, unions, uh like unfortunately, it's like they try and fight, fight, fight, but the way things are going, it's like uh just it's not really working for them. And one thing I I got thinking about, and I was I was reading something on Instagram and going through some comments talking about when did things start really getting privatized across so many different things and when the government started losing lots of money to a point where like even like in New Zealand, we're not like America, for example, of our healthcare system, thank God. But like so many things have been privatized, I feel, and like the government really has no money. And I was looking at something, not New Zealand's case, but more in the UK, about how like the beginning of um giving over a lot of council homes, and I think it might have been retirement. I think retirement homes might have been government run at one point, I'm not sure. But the point is that there were a lot of things that were government owned, the government had a lot of wealth and money, and then they started giving it out to contractors and businesses, and slowly now there's no money in the government, there's no money to put back into the health services and the education system, and reliant now on private contractors to do a lot of the work. And in New Zealand, I feel like that's kind of happened a little bit too. I feel like, you know, obviously with with COVID and that, obviously, a lot of money was getting handed out and everything, and we're you know, borrowing money. But I just, yeah, what's your what's have you got have you kind of looked into things like that?

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Yeah, I probably don't have a deep enough understanding of the history of that to to kind of be like, take my um like I I'm not educated enough on that or haven't been studying economics long enough to understand it. But I know, I know, I think I know what you're trying to say, and I sometimes think about this, I think like, because obviously I'm in the private sector, right? Or the um like get out there and and and build and get shit done. But then I see uh things pop up and I'm like, that is fucked. Like, why are we doing that? Or people um like you know, in the private sector charging the council or the government a shit ton of money because they know that they've got the budget, so it's like, oh, we'll jack the price up on this one, and I'm like, oh, but that's then taxpayer money, or that's debt that's got to come from somewhere, but it ends up over into the private sector and they decide what they do with it. But a story that comes to mind, and this is the second time I've seen this. So you know how we had the big argument about like uh lunches in schools, right? And it was like in the media every day, and like David Seymour was a piece of shit and whatever, and it's like I didn't even really know what was going on, but they changed like how that worked. But there's a couple of stories that have come out recently with people who did have government contracts, and they uh got behind on their PAYE. So basically they were hiring people to deliver food into the schools and do that, but they would pay people their net wages but not pay the PAYE, so the tax to the government. Eventually the IRD go, hey, you need to pay this, and they go, Oh, yeah, we'll set that up and put that on an installment arrangement, and then it doesn't happen. The IRD don't have enough resource, so they kind of go, Oh, great, they said they would, no one checks in on it. And this latest one, someone ends up $800,000 in debt to the IRD. So that that'll be like interesting, yes, you know. So, like a lot of people will struggle to like make 800 Gs in their life. I mean, with the way inflation's going, we'll probably you know be easier, but you know, 800 G a G. And then during COVID, they took uh wage subsidies for say 600,000. And I'm looking at this and I'm thinking that money's from the government to start with, so they've allocated it to you to put food into the schools, you then haven't paid the PAYE, so you haven't paid the taxes of the staff, and then you've claimed hundreds of thousands of dollars to the um you know, if during COVID to keep this thing going, and it's like government money not paying taxes, and then claiming more government money or debt, and then eventually it all like they get liquidated and they get bloused out, right? So the ID dropped the hammer and go, enough is enough, and then they close that business down. But that money now never gets paid back to um the IED, right? So they have to write that debt off. But again, like then that so then you could argue, but that money still sort of ended up out in the private sector or in the world because people were spending it, but it's like, yeah, but it broke the guidelines of how it was supposed to do. So there's and once you go, okay, that's one story. I read the exact same story in a different part of the country, you know, and then go, how many of these? Okay, then we look at construction. So at the moment, I've been pushing the IRD. I want to know like what do taxpayers owe the IRD. Now, in September 2020, it was around four billion dollars. Now in June 2024, it was eight. Four. Now they haven't they they haven't updated it since, and they're supposed to update it every quarter. They've just told us, no, no, we're gonna update it uh annually now. And I think, well, why is that? Probably because the Blue Brigade in Luxon wouldn't want people to know how much is outstanding from taxpayers. So I would suggest that it's around ten billion dollars of unpaid taxes and things that should have gone back to the government. You think that's quite a bit of coin, but they'll have to write a lot of that off because they just won't be able to get it back. But that's 10 billion that you know you could argue, well, it could have been used to um pay for some of the interest bill on the debt that we've taken or sort out the ferries across the Cook Strait or finish the hospitals or um you know give more to um you know somewhere, right? But the other argument will be, yeah, but that money still got pushed into the system. But where did it probably go? Well, it probably went to people then making a profit and going, what do we do once we have profit in New Zealand? Well, we don't want to fucking work or use the capital again, do we? We better push up the house prices and buy another rental or buy property uh or clear down my debt or um you know invest it and put it into assets which are untaxed. Does that make sense? It does.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

There's a long I'm I'm following it. No, I love it, I love it. Yeah, like the the So if I follow you right, like because of that of that lunch business, and then because it just didn't that 800,000 is just outstanding, and then it's if I'm I'm right, it's outstanding 800 grand. Yeah, and then it just doesn't get paid, and then and then how so how does it sorry, how does it become profit?

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Well, again, like if you think about it, that business has had a loan from somebody, right? So it's been allowed to continue before it like it if that was a loan from a a bank, they would have called it in years ago and be like, You don't know what you're doing. And this is why not everybody can be a business owner, because clearly they can't, right? And it's not profitable. So instead of doing it properly and and adhering to the rules, they just stop paying the GST and their taxes, which then Delays the failure of the business. So then the business owner sort of is taking that money or playing the business game longer when really that should have been wound up sooner and go, This doesn't work. You can't like you you're not playing by the rules, this is going to be stopped. And then it stops you know that person being a competitor in that market space. So as much as David Seymour was getting smashed, like there was people in this space that were taking the piss, but they would think, oh no, well, I'm doing something great. I'm feeding you know kids in schools, and people would, you know, I think there were awards being given out to some of these businesses, but really they weren't doing it profitably, they didn't know how it was working. They were probably just you know thinking, and I don't want to speak out of term, but right, government money, we can get some of this, not paying their taxes and shit. And now people that are trying to do it properly are competing with these people that have an unfair um credit line that they don't have. So if if that bank uh if that was a bank that was trying to lend it and you were getting behind, the bank would ring you and go, We we don't we don't put up with this. So yeah, we're gonna liquidate you and we're gonna stop your business. But because it's the IRD, they don't have the resource to then do it fast enough. Um so in that time, that business owner has taken money out um and and delayed the the length, well, delayed the inevitable failure of that business.

unknown 23:17

Shit.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

It doesn't really answer your question about like privatization and shit, but I just thought it was it's stuff that people don't see or think about.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

But in my world, like I do And then and then how the and then how these people can make money and then like you said, like put it back in and invest into property, and then the money then goes back up to these, you know, top 1%, 5% earners of the country who then just keep you know piling on. But well, I'll stop there before I go down too much of that rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

But just just to give like another side of it that we wouldn't think about, you know, so then we could say, well, like tax all those rich people, right? But they could say, Well, why do I need to keep paying more tax? Because now I send my kids to private school, so I don't even use the public system. Oh, health is fucked in New Zealand, so now I have private insurance. Yeah, so I'm not so I'm paying tax and I'm paying for all these things that the state is supposed to provide with taxes. So we've got ourselves into like a really gnarly position.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Yeah, I I don't I personally don't believe in going absolutely insane on taxing billionaires and the rich. There needs to be processes in place because there's a lot of cheeky stuff that I even I can't get my head around behind the scenes. But I do know that there's a lot of obviously abuse of the system once you know it, you know, as we know. And I I know in the UK at the moment that they're actually having a lot of millionaires and billionaires leave um because the economy is getting like uh well it's it's actually not a good place to be wealthy right now, um, just with how the state of things are, and obviously the tax and assets, and I think uh um I don't know all the little details, but I snow a lot of people who have a lot of money and own a lot of businesses are going elsewhere. Yeah, yeah. And that's a huge problem because now there's all these jobs that are now not gonna be in the country, and um it's gonna obviously reduce uh you know uh money going around the economy. And I feel like in New Zealand, like that's again, like it's a New Zealand is a good place to be rich if you've got enough money, but if you want to make good money, uh even as a business owner, I feel you do get to think big. But I d I I just feel as though it's more like it's not as attractive to be stuck in New Zealand, and then I think there's so many things put in place where it's even I don't know. Where am I going with this? It's also one of the basically my point is is it's it's like why would you stay in New Zealand even grow your business to a high level when you can go somewhere else? And if you're gonna and then if people come after you like tax the and look, I like I believe in process being put in place, people shouldn't abuse it. But like if you really want to get rid of a lot of business owners and people who provide jobs and a lot of like a lot for the economy, then when they're all gone, what is there, you know?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I there's two arguments, and one is that that's it's capital flight, right? People will leave the country if you tax the shit out of them, and then secondly, like, no, they won't, it won't be as bad. And I kind of think there's probably a balance of both of that. I think there'll be some people that just go, like, enough's enough, and you kind of you can kind of already see it now where younger people are going, well, what do they want to achieve? They probably want to achieve the Kiwi dream of a home and whatnot. Um, this isn't happening here, I could get paid more in Australia, I'm gonna get treated better, I'm gonna go over there. So when I first started learning about money, I learned that like money flows to where it's treated best. And I used to think about that as like, okay, well then you invest in a turn deposit that's paying 6% rather than like, you know, something that's paying 2%. But people are kind of the same, and money is it is attached to people, so people go to where they're treated best as well. And you're seeing a lot of UK entrepreneurial people go, fuck this, I'm gonna go do it in Dubai. And you're also seeing a lot of people go, Well, I'm gonna go to Bali and I'm gonna work from there and I'm gonna earn the US dollar and make a hundred thousand US in a year, pay some you know, expenses and whatnot, they might have seventy thousand dollars and still pay their taxes and whatnot, and go, shit, my life is epic here because everything's so cheap. But you know, they might get sick once there and then get into an operation and it's shit, and they go, fuck, I never want to live here again, and then bang, you know. So then so I think when we talk about all these things, we just assume that like they stay like that forever. Yeah. I think what happened with COVID is that when they locked everyone down, people went, Whoa, this can happen. Like the government's got that much control. And a lot of people went, I don't want to be treated like that. And so that's got more people thinking about okay, where are they gonna get treated best? But going back to what you're saying about okay, like why push hard and whatnot, I think about this all the time. And it's um so I was talking to my dad about it when I was out there for dinner the other day. Because dad always says to me, you know, uh, I'm not like him, and he's like, mate, I like where do these big goals come from and like and what are you doing? And like this, I I never thought like this, and um that's you know probably take an hour to unpack as well. But I said to him, mate, like I earn over 180k now, right, from my accounting business. And it's sort of yeah, thank you. Like it drops it out recurring, and we started from from nothing and like built it up, but I could see the path and I just have to keep going. But now, like every time I um you know take on a new client, doing your project, um, get a speaking gig, go work on the weekend, bring in any new income, I think, fuck, like it's not it's not say it's a five grand speaking gig, right? So I'll fly down to let's say Wellington, I'll be up at five in the morning, get out to the airport, park there, um, bang, sit, sit there, fly down, write Uber to the place, right, speak, and then crush that, you bam, massive dopamine dump. Um, right, need to get back in the Uber, um, do a little bit of work on the laptop, back to the airport, boing, you're in 4 p.m. Auckland traffic. Okay, bang, an hour to get home. My fuck, I haven't really eaten well today. I haven't done my normal gym routine, I've got to still do some work that I was doing, and I get three grand. I don't get five grand. Yeah, I get three because two grand straight away has to go to the government. So most people like because they don't earn that level of income, they would think, well, like that's very hard to make sense of. But I have to then go, like, I didn't used to think have to think about this shit because I didn't earn this level of money, but I'm like, man, why do I like push so hard when I only get 60% of it, not the whole thing? And I think I I can make sense of it because I love it, and so then I stick to things that are really fulfilling. But when people kind of try and get me to do shit I don't want to do, then I go, that's not worth it to me, because even if it's 10 grand, actually it's only six because I've got to pay four grand in tax.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

And even if it depends, depends if you enjoy it and like it's gonna give you something, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah. So it's sort of almost like it there's two sides. One, it makes you want to like spend money doing shit to bring your profit down to pay less tax, but secondly, it makes you think differently about what you're gonna say yes to. Now, if you take my situation aside, even for a lot of uh individuals, they'll be taxed at 33%. So really you're only getting two-thirds of um what you were earning. If you layer on um repaying your student loan on top of that, then all of a sudden, you know, you're looking at 45%. Um, and and the 12% that you've got to pay back on your student loan between I think it's it's roughly 24 grand and what you earn, that comes out of your gross amount, but you pay your student, so it's calculated on your gross but paid out of your net. So you've got an effective tax rate of o on your overtime for a young person with a student loan that earns over 78,000 of 50%. So they go and go, well, shit, I'm gonna go to work today for eight hours and I'm only really gonna get paid for four. Fuck, I'd rather go to that festival with the lads and with the ladies, let's tear into it and buy a couple of boxes and see how we go, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, you are clearing some of your student loan down with that 12%. But even I think younger people are going, this seems wrong. Like I did everything they told me to do, and I'm contributing to society. And if I try and push a bit harder, they're effectively taking like half of it. Yep. What what's this all about? But then the narrative is that people aren't paying enough tax, therefore, shut your mouth and get on with it, and it must be nice. But there's not enough commentary in this country about how one in two households don't pay any net tax, so they receive more than what they pay. And so they will say, No, but we still pay tax, and it's like, yes, you do, but the data is just telling us that we've got one and two house, like one household subsidizing the next. You know, so everywhere you look, basically, you know, you've got one household that won't net be contributing because they'll be receiving more back than what they're paying, and then the that household then has to pay for that household. So the argument for the people who are earning more are like, well, why do I have to keep paying fucking more? Like, you know, so it's it's um it's a gnarly gnarly subject, and I don't think there's right or wrong answers, but they're gonna have to at some stage try and get uh people on the same wavelength of what we assume to be acceptable. But I think what will happen on the other side of that is we'll do it and then things won't really change as dramatically, and people will be frustrated. And yeah, sorry, that's uh a big another tangent.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

It's not absolute gems, I'm learning so much. Um, this is like yeah, a lot of stuff I'm unfamiliar with, so I appreciate it. Um I going through we'll talk about we touched on the budget and then we're talking about the tax, and we're talking about like you know, paying for different households and that. And one thing that I've been thinking about, I wanted to talk to you about, was the amount of money that we invest uh as a country in the beneficiaries. Now, this is obviously a bit of a touchy subject, but um uh my partner, she works as a as a um case manager as well, so I'd get to hear and learn about a lot of stuff, what's going on there. And what I find interesting about it is um a lot of people out there who are on the benefit in some capacity earn more than having a job. Yeah. And this is something I think that not every single one, but a lot of them do. Like a minimum, like they will earn more than probably the minimum wage and some. So the incentive to work, why? And that's something that I think that's gotten from what I can tell in the last five or plus it's always been a problem, but I feel like it's accelerated because now economic times and things are difficult. Yeah. But I wanted to sort of get your perspective on that. And this episode is sponsored by me. Do you struggle with sleeping and particularly struggle with light and sound while sleeping? I think it's time you get the sleep that you deserve. My business Infinity Sleep specializes in sleep well-being products to enhance your sleep quality. I've been using sleep masks and airplugs for the past three years to help improve my sleep, and I'm so stoked to finally have ones that have been created for my own sleeping needs. If you would like to learn more about my business Infinity Sleep, please visit our website www.infinitysleep.co.nz. By making a purchase, you are directly not only supporting a local kiwi business, but also this podcast. Use the promo code only scott15% and receive 15% off your first order. Go to www.infinitysleep.co dot nz to get the sleep that you deserve.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Yeah, I don't know like when you use terminology like a lot of them are. Uh I haven't run the data to sort of see, but I've seen I know what you were talking about, and I've seen like comparisons of okay, if I work minimum wage.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Yeah, more like the minimum wage I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Versus then getting these, like why would I work hard and do 40 hours to get this, then pay my tax on it when I could receive this? And then yeah, that like humans, we always find the path of least resistance or normally what's easiest for us, right? And I think what like it's really interesting. I was I was um doing a PT session once, and my trainer was from Iran, and he was like, Man, your country fucked you with um all this welfare, and I'm like, what are you talking about, mate? Like we have such a good welfare system, it's so like it's there's so much support there for people. And he's like, Yeah, that's your guy's problem. Like you're so weak because um you know that like there's there's all these backstops, and so like life's not actually that hard for you. And I'm like, Well bro, calm the fuck down, man. Like, you know, and then I started thinking about it, I'm like, oh okay, and I'm like, well, tell me how it works over there, and then you know, um, you you realize that we just live in a in a country in a bubble, and there's different systems and ways that people do things, but you know, if you didn't have that, then what would your behaviour become? You know, maybe it would be different, or you know, um you but I I choose to believe, and I may be wrong, that a lot of people don't want to be on the benefit and that they would rather be earning more. Um, however, I always see whenever the budget comes out, people saying, like, oh well, I've missed out on this, and we have this real mentality in New Zealand of like, what's in it for me? And even I'm like, why the fuck am I gonna work hard or go and do that piece of work to then let go of 40% of it? So we're all sort of frustrated by it. Um, but you know, I have a history of welfare in my family because mum um was on a benefit at some stage, I received a student allowance, and so now I'm like, I've learned a bit of a principle of like you've got to balance your life up. And so if you go and take welfare and support, at some stage you should pay it back. That's just my belief.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

And because I think if the world gives you too much, eventually it'll take it from you, and this is just like a value or a principle that I've come to see, and so where I learnt about this is like stealing. If you then become someone who goes, Fuck that that's not me anymore, you should feel so uncomfortable about it that you go back and apologize, um, or you go and give back, or you go and make it right. And for me, that was a lesson around like you, you know, it might be karma, some people might call it, or you're just getting you're putting the world out of balance. So I'm all for support systems because I've seen welfare in New Zealand work really well for the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

100%. I'm true.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Most people will be the same, right? Definitely then because humans, we're humans, we're like, fuck it, I'm gonna take the piss. Like, I'm gonna push this to the I'm gonna get more. Yeah, yeah. And I'm gonna like, well, like why would I do that over there? And sometimes people will say that to me, and I'll say, because you want to contribute back to society, and you don't want to live in that world. That that was dis that wasn't designed for you. But we've we've fallen into this kind of oh, well, I can, so like, well, why not? And it's like because it's not the it wasn't built for you, you're capable to do this over here, so get out of that world. But that's like again, like a belief that I have. Um, and I say, well, you're one less person that needs to rely on that, so that's why you should not do it, you know, and then you can contribute and things are gonna get better, and you're gonna teach um your kids something different as well and whatnot. And I had a really interesting conversation once with somebody who's like, My family has just lived in welfare, and I'm the one that's like, I'm not doing that. And whenever they go home, they think that they're crazy, you know, like why are you doing that? You're a fucking idiot. Um, and they just get bashed that I have to be so careful because I take my mindset back in there, and they want to pull me back in, and they think I'm the weird one, and they're like, But I don't want to be like that because they can see that there's nothing down that path, and they're trying to be the person who like breaks the the the chain and the generation and whatnot. But the the problem for that person is that once you start seeing that working, then it's like, oh, you need to pay more, you need to pay for mum's funeral. Yeah, like oh, um That's very true. You start earning a bit of money around people and family and or some close friends. Yeah, can you lend me some money? Like, oh well, feel bad not because it's family and whatnot. And then all of a sudden it's like shit, you're basically you know paying for their groceries every week or something. Yeah, and and like I love um like I love giving money, and but every time I do it, I'm like, fuck, did I teach that person anything? Was that actually like that smart? And even I'll run competitions around giving out money for keep the kids.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Yeah, I see that, I see that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

And like I'll notice the behavior, you know, like like when are you drawing this? What time? Like what did I win it?

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Yeah, I'm like, bro, what are you on about? Why are you so aggressive? I don't owe you shit.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Yeah, that is that is a kiwi thing. Yeah, that is a kiwi thing. And you'll notice like viral giveaways on social media, and it's like again, people are like, I want something easy. But then you go back to Max, who you mentioned before. Max is like, I'm gonna go knock on some doors and clean their cars, and he's fucking making more than all of these people combined. Yeah, you know, at eight.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

So simple, but because he's got that also mentality of so growing socials, yeah, yeah, doing something small, can knows how to play it. Yeah, all power to him. Yeah, I'm like, I mean, you could do that with I mean, we've seen it with anybody. I remember the first time I got on TikTok, and the first thing I watched out of all the things apart from some dancing videos was a guy who cleaned pools. Oh I can't remember what the business called, some guy in the States, and he would show the before and after of his pools, and his business just went like skyrocketed just from these basic videos of like, hey, I put these chemicals in, talks about his day, pools cleaned.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Man, I I actually I'm working uh in my head, I'm working on this, and I just start getting out uh on paper. I'm gonna do a podcast on like 10 businesses that are doing really well at the moment and just go through 10 of my clients and just the real basic shit that they're doing, because I think there's a big uh misunderstanding that you've got to build like a Henry or a Zero or a fucking rocket lab or something to like crush it. Yeah, you do to crush it.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

But you can make like top tax bracket by doing just really valuable shit, and that's why I always bang on about baby boomers having so much money because it's they've got it. So then you just sell to them and your life gets easier. 100%. Yeah. Easy formula.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Sounds the old people. Um, what was I gonna say? Oh, something I found funny. Um thinking about talking about the budget, and that I'm sure you saw this was the uh the the pub going up in parliament. They're uh rebuilding the bar or something. Have you seen that? Uh like I think I also like Patty Gower talking about it or something better. Tax money is being bought, being being used to build, like redo because they used to be like a parliament pub or something. Oh yeah, and then they took it away and now they're rebuilding it. It's just like that is not a good look right now, guys.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Yeah, they should, I think they've got a gym. I reckon they should live stream the bloody gym and see how many people are actually using it. We need to get those politicians, uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Some of them need to be working, I think, uh physically. But it's just funny. Like when I saw that, I'm like, really, guys? Like, out of all the things right now, you're not a good, not a good move, but it was quite funny. Um, something else wanted to bring up as well was um uh oh, with your next advisory, because you've worked with so many different small businesses, a variety, probably small, medium, even to large, I don't know. But what's been the most like unique idea that someone's had that works?

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Well, this is my favorite story at the moment because I'm working with them and it's front of mine, so it's fun for me to talk about. But they um they're a professional animal trainer.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Yeah, and so they train people um on well, sorry, they train, they help people on how to train their pets. And like I'm talking dogs and cats. Now, like us kiwis would be like, what? Like that that's a business. And again, like I'm gonna try and help them get into the top tax bracket. That's where I want to see them. I want to see them in the top 3% of income earners in the country, and I think they'll easily be able to do it. Now, they can go to zoos and they can help train their staff, they can go to international zoos and they can do that, they can host uh workshops with people internationally, they can have a membership, they can have a one-off um training program over 90 days, six months, twelve months. They could solve so many different problems, like okay, how to stop your dog from barking, um, how to stop your dog from biting, etc. So there's so much they can do, and they do a lot of that, and they do it internationally, and they've got thousands of people that interact with them, and they just do it from little old New Zealand, and effectively they're an exporter of their skills and their education. Now, we're always like, Oh, primary industries, we need to export more shit, and it's like that's a person that most people wouldn't even think about that is exporting, and they'll they'll be a top taxpayer in New Zealand, and they'll be helping subsidise a household that like isn't doing that and doesn't want to, and that's fine, they don't need to, like, that's that's just how it is. But I love people who take their skill and go, fuck, I could make money out of this and actually have a go at it, and then you know, uh make it successful. So that's quite fun um to to to look at. I guess our our yeah, our funny client um at the moment uh that like well I shouldn't say funny, but they get a fair bit of tension as girls get off, so they started creating uh I don't know them. You don't know them? Girls get off, yeah. Yeah, little little vibrators. Ah, right, yeah, right. And like because a lot of the social media platforms don't like that advertising. They written out and hate it.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

So does Google. Google hates it too.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

So they've gotta they've gotta do all this organic marketing to try and like get their name out there and keep sales going and stuff, and it's about normalizing pleasure for women and uh they they just yeah, make crack up content. Uh that's the way to go though, like embrace it, you know. Yeah, it's a bit of fun. But we've got like a lot of younger people that are you know, they'll get to a ceiling in business and go, Right, I've got this working, I I I want a bit of help. Like we're we're two from here, and that's what I love doing getting in and helping them understand the numbers and what. They're doing and go okay. Like, how do we expand this? Who's got my money? Like, who's gonna be my ideal client? Um, working with a client at the moment uh down in the mount, and they run supper clubs for people, and basically they'll come into your home and put together an epic um night entertaining you, hosting you, cooking for you, so you can just chill and host your mates, and yeah, helping them like really dial in with that and build it around having a young child and like understanding some of their mindset challenges and things, and you know what's worked in the past. They're looking at doing a big event, okay. How can we, you know, like make this really good? And I just yeah, I love it. There's so many cool New Zealand people doing um things that are making more money than what people would realise is is possible, and they've chosen a path, and like I want to help them, given they've taken so much risk, like make sure that they get it working right, and so they're looking after themselves physically, mentally, um, and financially as well. We've got you know traditional clients in construction, um, insurance advisors, mortgage advisors, kiwi saver advisors. Um, yeah, so I get to work with kind of all pockets uh of the industry, and I'm always really intrigued with like what makes that client successful, and then what makes that non-client like not successful? What are they doing in their industry? What's happening inside their head? Um, what happens when something in life goes wrong and they you know get derailed? And yeah, it's fascinating the resilience of some of these Kiwi business owners.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Yeah, people just fall down and get back up, especially I imagine like the building and trade, like it's been pretty brutal the last few years, it's been rough as, so I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Yeah, and you can like really ruin your business in that space with your mind, so you can basically believe that like the government you know is is is shit and like there's no work out there and it's all cooked, and Jacinda did this, but then Grant did this, but then National did this, and like you can be bang off the deep, and you start drinking piss, you go hang out with the people that are that are doing the same thing, and it's like, yeah, it's fucking shit, man, and my employee's an asshole, and bang, like you'll just rot your mind. And then I'll talk to a client, they're like, Oh yeah, like we're flying. Like, really? I'm like, I thought we were in a recession. Oh no, we've been talking to all our old customers, we've been handing out flyers, or we've been doing some social media, we haven't drunk in for six months. We're just you know, like chipping away, we're just trying to keep our minds sound, like we've just accepted we might not make as much money as we have in the past, but if we zoom out over 10 years, you know, we're still in a great vehicle to build wealth and we love this, and we wouldn't rather, you know, be doing anything else. And I'm like, great, like awesome, completely different mindset, right? And this one over here, like world the world shit.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Yes, yeah, a popalyptic almost, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Yeah, and like they have to wait for things to be real frothy to get the confidence to get going again. Whereas this person sort of makes their own.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

I feel like that's a the risk-taking thing with Kiwis. That's the big one, eh? I really think that's like waiting, like waiting, oh, everyone else has kind of done it now, you know? Like, we're just not that type. Like I when I traveled in the States a while back, like just very different thinking. But when it came to business and stuff, people were just way more willing to be like, yeah, let's just go. Yeah. Where in New Zealand, like, ooh, art like, don't know about that.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

It looks a little or three things. One, like if you think about it, why would you take risk when you can just put money into housing and it goes up? Because that's how the system works, and then you don't have to work hard or take any risk because it's safe as houses and you get marketed to that. And like the best time to buy was yesterday. So, like, why would you take risk? You just you just wait for it to get better, right? But unfortunately for people, house prices haven't moved for four years, so that's fucking broken. So you can choose to stay there and like live there, or you can go, well, maybe I will earn to learn to earn when the market's not doing that. I think that's a more capable, powerful person than someone who just has to wait for houses to get better. Two, um, shit, America, they treat sport uh sorry, business like a sport, yeah. So they really like like to kind of grow and scale, and they've got so much scale that they can do it. So I looked at an accounting coach in America, and they're like, Oh, you should just just focus on one niche, so dentists, maybe building, maybe like physios, and you just get you know 300 of those clients and you just make money for life, and then it they all got the same problems, then you got all the data, like you're doing well, you're not, you should be doing this, like your business is easy. You try and do that in New Zealand, like a lot harder, so you have to be a bit more generalized.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Whereas they're just like just pick something you're good at and just fucking scale to the moon and like the population and stuff, obviously, you know, with five million people, it's tough to like if you want to grow to like a certain scale, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:15

And then the third point I can't remember, so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

No, no, no, it's all good, it's all good. I was gonna um ah shit, I had another good one. Oh, um, because we talk so much about your journey right now and kind of where you're at, which is so cool. You're doing so much stuff. I mean, yeah, you're sort of juggling a lot of juggling a lot of things. But when did um when was your mindset mind mindset shift when you were like, I need to be going out and do my own thing? Like from was it like pre-COVID or something? Yeah, yeah. Like when you were like, hold on, yeah, the way I'm going right now isn't working. I something needs to change. When did you kind of have that? Um when did that kind of pop into your mind?

SPEAKER_00 48:53

I don't know like the exact moment, but I think I can kind of trace back my journey. So like going back to early childhood and like teens, I was I was probably you know, I was third stream at school, I won a speech competition, I was you know, goodish at football and Danny Verk, but then got it to Palmy and was like, oh mate, you're fucking shit, like you're not playing in the top team. I'm like, what? I'm like, how what do you mean? Like I thought, and they're like, nah, mate, you can't even juggle the ball. And I'm like, had a lesson of oh whoa man, and I still remember it sort of like oh fuck, this is you know a bit different to Danny Verk. And then um, you know, I I like this might sound a bit arrogant to say, but I think if I stayed in Danny Virk, I probably could have or would have been head boy, you know, of the school. But I went to Palmy and it's like bang, you're into the system, bro, and you're you're just another person, didn't become didn't become a prefect. But I always had this belief that like I am, and that I would go back and speak at assembly and do big shit. And I went and spoke at assembly recently. And I don't know, like I don't know where that came from, but I guess I had like an inner belief, but probably from being told, like, oh you're quite good, but then having a good realization, oh bro, you're like you're not as good as you think you are, right? And then having to own that, but I went through a frustrated channel of like oh surely it just happens because I'm like you know, I'm I'm good at things, surely like my moments will come. But like I probably did have moments and then just pissing up against the wall and wasted them and whatnot. And I think I started to get frustrated of like, well, I've I've done this career and I'm doing these things, but I'm not like I want to be doing bigger things, and so I think I had an internal frustration and probably started listening to like enough motivational shit to go, oh I need to make like I need to take control of this, like no one's gonna come and do it for me.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

No one's coming to save you. Yeah, yeah. I believe that, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

And you know, actually then going, Oh, far out, what do you do then? Like, what like if no one's coming to do it for me? And I mean it sounds so simple, but I think so many people actually think that somebody's gonna come and like build their retirement fund, start the business for them, fucking learn how to do the podcasting, you know, and they're just like waiting for like, hey, you're doing so well at your job, here's 20 grand bonus, you know. Like, and the more I realize that that doesn't, it's not how the world works. I used to think the world came to you, and that basically just people knocked on your door and were like, hey, fuck, you're the man, like here you go. And but really, even with all the shit that I do now, I'm still like I had to drop an email yesterday to someone pretty high profile and be like, hey, like I'm working on this. Do you want to look at partnering with it? And they're like, Yep, keen. And I'm like, okay, if I don't, and I know now because I've got too much data, so I'm like, send the message. So I type the message on the plane and I send it, you know, once I get back into Wi-Fi, but I'm still like, oh, like, shouldn't they just say, oh hey, like we'd but they don't know, they've got their own shit going on.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Yeah, people are are very um I I can't remember who said it. It was like people are way more unaware of you than you believe. Yeah, but people don't really people sort of like I essentially mean I'm really in here, and we all kind of a lot of us are, and I think like people don't not understand you, you haven't got time, especially in like you know, adult life, like to really see what you're doing. And I used to have that a bit with like when I used to do like music and that, and I was like, why isn't this really working? And I'm like, well, one, I'm not hustling it enough at all, and I didn't really understand the branding part very well. And I was also like, Well, why would people care if you're not if if you're not really putting yourself out there and laying it all on the line? Why should someone else care? They've got their own stuff. What are you what are you giving them? It's like what a little something to listen to? Fuck.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

It's such a powerful way to think because most people like they won't be able to get past that, they'll just stay stuck at the frustration. So I told I went and spoke to uh year 11 boys, and they're like apparently um they're all using the saying at the moment, like, oh, we're locking in, sir, like we're locked in. And and I'm like, boys, like yeah, yeah, you like most of us don't can't lock in. It's too fucking hard. There's too many distractions, you know. And I was telling them a story how um I wanted to be a public speaker at some stage, and so I um drop celebrity speakers a line and they're like, Oh, you need to fill out this form, and it's like, oh, I don't hear back. And they're like, oh hey, um, they're like, bro, who are you, man? Like, and now like I'll probably make I'm aiming for a hundred K, but I'll probably make sixty thousand. Uh I've got sixty grand worth of speaking locked in for this year, I'll get flown to Australia. I've been to Queenstown, Wellington, um, back down to Tatanaki soon. Yeah, like all over the country. But I when when I don't hear back, I'm like, fucking, I'll show you. Like, I just gotta stick at it. So it's not like a it's a chip on the shoulder, but it's uh a healthy one where I go, mate, stop thinking you're better than what you are. You know, like you you can be, but you're trying to be over there, but you're still here, you know. Celebrity speakers are like, who the fuck are you, man? We're not gonna represent you. You you're not even doing any speaking just because you want to do it. So then I'm like, okay, well, how do I make it happen? Okay, well, I've then got to go and figure that out. And so I use the frustration, but I direct it and go, okay, well, it's not happening at the moment, but I can ensure that it happens. And that I think is the if you can get resilient to get through that hurdle, and then once you have a couple of those in your life, man, it's really hard to then not make the sense of doing the work that you know you need to do. Yeah, or and and you spot other people doing it, and you're like, Yeah, like they you can see you get it, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they can't see it yet, and you're basically like, Oh, you just need to keep doing what you're doing, and you just feel so excited for them because you're like, Oh, they don't know what's gonna come.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

Yeah, because the big the the biggest key I've even learned with this podcast is that is just the absolute relentless consistency and just being like, I will post three, four days, four times a week, doesn't matter, I'm sick, I'm you know, whatever, like I just have to do it, you know, and just like consistent, consistent trying to obviously not burn myself out in the process, and I've kind of put given myself away that I don't, yeah, yeah. But it's like that ruthless consistency is the only way it's gonna happen. That's from what I can tell. Like, you're gonna get there. When did you learn about that kind of consistency? Like, for example, with like your social channels and even your email list, like yeah, I'll put out an email this month. Maybe I'll wait a few more months. Like, you can't do that, obviously. But when did you learn like I need to be doing this? Like, all right, this week is this, next week is this. Like, I need to consistently be working or chipping away at my at my at my things.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Well, I had some uh look because to take a step back from Next Advisory, which is now eight years old. We had school rebates, which was sort of my first venture that I quit my job, and I um went out on my own. We try to build this platform. We did build a platform for parents to claim back school donations. So we were funded a million bucks to Kiwi Parents, and like no one cares. You know, again, it's like you build it and then you go to we got an article in Sunday Star Times, got all this attention. I'm like, oh man, this business thing is easy. Everyone comes to the website and then everyone like fucking falls off and don't do it. And I'm like, Well, where did everyone go? And then it's like, how do you get them back? And then I had learned, well, we didn't have tracking set up, we need to do marketing, and so then I had to go on this journey of like, oh, you don't just like do something once and be like, hi guys, look what I've done. And everyone's like, oh, amazing, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me care's money, or like let's do this. And so I noticed that like being more consistent stuff would happen. But I knew, like, I had principles of that because I played football for a long time and I wasn't like really talented, but I knew if I outworked other people and I was consistent, turning up the training, you know, being there early, last to leave, lifting up the dudes who are really good and be like, mate, I've got your back, like you do the you do the good shit, man. I'll fucking nail that person who's you know trying to take you out of whatever you work on your strengths, I'll work at mine. And I could kind of see those in pockets of life of like, oh, this is where I fit in, you know, and I'd sort of like see myself like that. Okay, I don't need to be the best, but I just need to be consistent and out grind people, and I would sometimes walk onto the football field, I'd look at who I was you know marking and think, I bet I'm fucking fitter than you, and I bet that I'll be running at 90 minutes and you'll be struggling. And every now and then, like I'd find an opponent that um would just kick my ass and I'm like, oh man, okay. And then I would own it like I'm not good enough. Um, but I would, and then you know, sometimes I might lose my call or whatnot, but I would then put in more work to do more training. So I've I've been built into hard work, I've seen my parents work hard. Uh I've gone to um school on a bus from 13 or 12, uh, an hour each way a day, and then still had a job on the other side of that. So for me, like working hard and being consistent, I've I've got too much data from an early age to know that it like. You're doing it because you've been doing it your whole life, so it's just inbuilt.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Because a lot of people have to learn that.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

Yeah, and I think I noticed as well that with um when I started learning more about business, that you know, there's there's a reason people celebrate the five-year milestone so much because it can make or break you, and by year five, you're kind of like you've built something, and a lot of people fail or like don't get past year five. A lot of people don't even get past year one, and and sometimes that's a lot of it's just they haven't validated the market and they're trying to build a business the market doesn't want, but you keep going and past year five, you're like, ah man, it's gonna be easier past there. And so then I started learning about how people can't think in five or ten year blocks because it's so hard to see that far ahead of you. Yes, and so then I started business planning and life planning in five and ten-year windows. So when I started keep the change, I said to myself, this is a 10-year project, this will take 10 years to help a hundred thousand people get better at financial literacy, and so now I'm five years in, and part of me's like, have I already achieved it? Uh am I halfway? Am I gonna stop at 10? Um, am I gonna get there by 10? Like, I don't really know, but I know that I'm helping a lot of people, but it drags me forward. I'm like, bro, you committed to 10 years, man. Fucking do the work. And then, you know, we're here on a Saturday, and you know, like I'll like I can, yeah, I'll I'll come here and I'll do this, and it's and it's fun and I enjoy it as well. But because I've got such a clear goal and I've given myself 10 years, I still know that I'm in it. But if I get to like year 10 or beyond that, I might not enjoy it as much. I might go, but I did the block. But I've sort of come to learn that like most people won't do work on something for a long period of time. Therefore, if you do, you'll outcompete all these people that come in and go, like, oh, I'll I'll have a crack at that, but come the second, third, fourth iteration, they just go, Oh, this is too hard. And like sometimes even at the moment for like Instagram and talking to my editor this morning, I'm like, mate, like we need to be we're we've we've we're lagging behind. Like, what's going on? We need to invest more time, more money, or something. This isn't good enough. We're better than this. This is we're half-assing this shit, and you get stuck in these plateaus, and so they have to like what you're working on has to be really meaningful, otherwise, you you it's very easy to get stuck and just go, ah, like I can't be bothered because we've only got a certain amount of energy, yeah, and and time and focus and whatnot. So, yeah, I think the more meaningful the things are that you're working on, it makes it a lot easier to be consistent.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

On that note, when is it time to stop?

SPEAKER_00 59:43

Uh keep the change, or like in general?

SPEAKER_01 59:46

Just in general, I think to people who get into business or people who get not just business, a job, a passion project, or it could it could be a lot of different things, but I think like you say, like you you're trying to bring something, so for example, for business, bring something to the market that people don't really want. Yeah, or you keep pushing and pushing and going really hard. Like um, one of my lessons I learned of this was um in my with my music uh career I had was in one of the last bands I was in where I had a project just kind of fall apart for not the same reasons, but like I had been kind of chasing this dream of like uh at the time trying to form a band and I just couldn't really make it work. But like the same problem kind of kept happening, and I'm like, I'm putting so much energy and time in this, yeah, and now I'm getting like and it's been like eight, nine years, and I'm just like fuck, like I just needed to like step back a bit now, but not everyone can do that because it's just like to chase it. So when is a good time to you know like to realize that you may need to take a step back and take a breather?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

So, how I'd answer that is that what I often try and refine for fulfillment. So if it's not enjoyable fulfilling, so yesterday I flew to Wellington. I'd sort of said, I don't know if I'll come back and speak to these year 11 boys, I don't know if they like get it. I refined how I did the presentation to them and I enjoyed it a lot, and I learned something in that. And and then also I had Max come on the podcast from going and speaking to those boys, and I'm like, okay, maybe this is worth it. You're looking for again, like I always do, you're looking for the year 10 result at year three. This young fella's coming through being like, mate, I I really enjoyed it when you come and spoke at school. I think, oh, maybe if I do do that for 10 years, some cool stories drop out of it, but I'm wanting it to happen like this. So you've got to have patience and you've got to know that like it doesn't just happen. But if you're not enjoying it, and if you're if you're I reckon like sometimes say I'm taking on a new client, I'll think, okay, if they rang me at seven o'clock at night, would I answer or be like, oh fuck's sake? Yeah. And if it's um if if I if there's too many fuck sakes, I'm like, they probably shouldn't be a client. That's the something's giving me an answer there. Um and we can I think in this day and age, because so many people have monetized their hobbies or been told to like have a hobby and stay consistent, we can misdirect our energy into something that's not actually giving back to us what we thought it once could or did. And it's really scary to then because it becomes part of your identity, to then put your hand up and go, that's not for me anymore. And I like I work through this and I think about it as well, and there's different parts of things that I do in business and different projects I work on. But what I've learned is like less is some is often a lot more, and if you strip things off and and bring yourself back to enjoying it, then it seems to flow and work better as well. So, like a good example for me last year is I put together a um a business meeting every week for people who wanted to be a part of it. So, like some people can't afford to work with us, but I wanted to create a way that they had to pay to then take it more seriously, but they got access to us every week so they could basically like jump on a call on a Friday, ask, ask their questions, get a bit of encouragement. I'd give them other resources throughout the year, and I thought, man, I'll get 50 business owners doing this around the country piece of piss. And I probably signed up, maybe 15 to start with, got a good bump, and it was but all people that would support us anyway. Then it was like 16, 17, like, oh hey, I'm gonna cancel, man. We can't really make that call. And you know, later in the year, I'm like, fuck man, doing a Friday call every morning at 10 is way more full on than I thought it was gonna be when I've got all this other shit going on. And so I could identify in the year, this isn't it, like this is starting to drain me, it's not fulfilling, it's not what I thought it was gonna be, and that's the key, it's not what I thought it was gonna be, it's not achieving what I thought it was gonna achieve for me. Therefore, I need to draw a line in the sand and I need to pull pin on it, and I can make that decision faster. But I said to myself, do not pull pin like now, because you told these people that it's gonna be a year, so now you you said that at the start of the year, you make you make your commitment because but I'm not saying that that's ever how everybody would roll, but I'm I'm a bit of a if you give people your word, then you know try and like stick to that as much as you can because as soon as you don't give people your word, people notice it, man. Like people notice that when you say you're gonna do something you don't, they're like, Hmm, that guy, man, not trustworthy. Um excuses, yeah, yeah. And not the good, not the right ones, and they won't tell you, they'll just bank it, you know, and they'll go like dunno. So yeah, hopefully that helps some people listening and yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:09

Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. Oh, sweet, bro. Um, I'll just double check if I had any other little things I wanted to do. You've done well to not have any notes or uh No, I mean generally I don't need them, but every now and again I'm like, ooh, maybe I'll write a few things down. Uh yes. Um, yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, so kind of within the space that you're in in the in the financial education world, how many like because something I find interesting with this space is uh people who are doing like get rich quick schemes. How much of that have you come across in your time doing doing what you do? Like because you're in the financial space online, you're giving out great advice and doing your podcast and all this stuff, but the dark side of that is a lot of people who are like, hey, like sign up to this, and it's like a pyramids game and some bullshit. Like, how much of that have you come across?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:01

Um see people tell me about this, and I'm like, can you send it to me? Like, I want to see it because I want to unpack, because I understand business, some like what's going on here. And some things are legal and some things are just borderline, but I think the big problem that's happened is that people have um like they're selling a lifestyle or a perception of what your life could be like, which is really smart marketing because people want to shift their identity or like how their life could be, but to do that, you just have to do this, and it's pretty easy. And what I've learned is most shit is actually like really hard. Or with the people that I've surprised, yeah, or the people that I've worked with that have made things look really easy. I'm like, oh fuck, they are like off like off the spectrum, they're a one percenter. Um, you know, go and listen to a podcast I've done with Simon from Fitware, he's a good example of this. Like gets into he basically built well, let's say like Gymshark before Gymshark was even a thing, built like community, all this shit, and then just like makes all this cash and just blows himself up and then goes back now. Like, oh, I think I found God and I think that's gonna like level me out, and he's just hilarious. We have so much fun having a young because we've known each other for ages. But there's people that kind of come along and go, like, oh, look what I've made and stuff. Um, you know, even I've gone to a conference and I've brought a four and a half thousand dollar um like e-commerce course, and uh, yeah, e-commerce course, which is kind of what people call in this at the moment, right? Um, but it was genuinely like okay, here's how you build uh an Alibaba type business from someone who had done it really well. I get into it, I'm like, oh fuck. That 30-minute keyno made it sound way easier than what it is. Yeah, I'm not gonna ask for my four and a half grand back because I'm gonna bank this as a lesson of like you ready. Like I'm trying to build an accounting business. Why are you paying for a e-commerce? Yeah, yeah. It's not relevant. Yeah, it's not. Do I really want to start, you know, like another website, more marketing and shit? I'm like, man, just park that you just focus on your accounting.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

So spend yourself too thin.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

Yeah, I think there's quite a lot of that stuff at the moment where people are like selling a lifestyle. But I think there's people that are doing well on some of these things. I'm all for shit, I have to be careful how I word this. I don't like people getting ripped off um or like buying into something that they think they can have a life that they can't. But most people like a lot of people fail in life and business because they're not actually willing to do the work. So they pay the money thinking that they will, but then when they get in the grind, it's just like we're talking about a four, they won't actually do it. So there's always successful people doing all sorts of random shit, which we think I could do that. But the problem is you could do that, you could do what they're doing, but you couldn't do it for a year, for two years. You couldn't do it when it's hard, you couldn't do it when uh the baby comes along or whatever, and then you go, Oh, they're they're full of shit, they're just trying to rip people off.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

Yeah, my favorite um ones, scams I've talked about here before was um on LinkedIn for a while, especially during like uh COVID and just afterwards, and probably are still now because job markets just so fucked. But like the amount of fake jobs that were popping up. Oh, yeah, um, like from like fake marketing and agencies, um, and like pyramid scheme places, and you can be you can be like the head of growth. I love that I love those job titles, and it's so funny because it's like you got five of these jobs, like get the lifestyle you want, work when you want, and it's like it sounds too good to be true, because it is. But there was a lot of them coming out, and then I remember there was one girl on um on TikTok, I forgot her name, but she was talking about wasn't it was one of these jobs that she applied for, and like the level of scamming was out was like out the gate. Like she applied for it, she had like a phone call interview, then she went through like a like a little training session, all digital, all online, and then she um she then got the contract, gave her bank account details, gone, and then she got a bunch of money taken off, like stolen out of a bank account. I was like, Whoa!

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

That is next level, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:43

So I've I've heard a few of those cases, but um, yeah, it's just gotta be really careful. Like digital scamming now is like leveled up a lot, and uh it's not just phishing emails and stuff like that anymore, it's like everywhere on even on socials and fake businesses. Like I'm in digital marketing and I do have an e-commerce business myself, so I kind of know when a business is fake, yeah, you gotta look for all the different signals, and even something else I've noticed is um mainly in the e-commerce space is like people faking trust pilot reviews. That's a big one. Oh, yeah. So like hundreds and hundreds of trust pilot reviews, and they're just like bots or whatever, and then but then they because it gives people or even like Google reviews and that. But there's a lot of things you can look at. Like, are they replying to the Google reviews? Like, is the trust pilot reviews or are they replying on there? Are they all positive? Yeah, because that's also not a good sign. You've got to have a few two stars, it's good, it's good. You know, otherwise it's not trustworthy. I don't believe, like, if it's a full all five stars, I do have questions if it's a lot, like let's say 500 Google reviews that are five star.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:44

I have I have questions. Yeah, we've got 150 for next advisory that are five star.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:49

Have you got some four stars?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

Oh, I think we might have a four, or yeah, but we probably do actually, but we don't really have any, we got a couple of like negative like bot pipe things. Uh yeah, just a random tangent. But do you what I reckon would be funny is if um when people because often like in business, people will inquire about your services, your pitch to them and whatnot, then they just ghost you. And I think like what would be funny is if there was like a ghosting review, so you could go onto there and be like, oh heads up, this is how they purchase, so therefore this is how they may act in their business. And I think sometimes like I I don't do this, but I want to be an arsehole and go on people's business and be like, hey, they inquired about this. We emailed them on this, they had a call that was 30 minutes. We followed up, they text them on thin, and they and they didn't didn't respond to anything. Just be careful if you use them as a service provider to you because this is how they treat their suppliers or potential suppliers, and so much time there, it's so much time, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

Like, um, especially like in the the B2B world as well, like pitching and time, like presentations, and then just getting fucking ghosted like hours and hours and hours of work, and then it's just like not even a no, like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

I'm like, just tell me no, just say no's fine. Just just on the scams, this has been quite sad because I sort of blew up on TikTok for a little bit, and I think I went to about 30,000 followers or something. Well done. Yeah, but uh, this was like years ago. This is I think yeah, I can't remember, it might have been two or three years ago now. But people started like duplicating the account and putting in like a shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:08

That happens a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:09

And because it's I'm in the financial space, then they were like, they must be downloading my videos and make their profile look like mine. And there's all this keep the change profiles, and fuck, they're like roofless man. They I still get messages to this day where people are like, bro, you messaged me on TikTok, and they like they've got my full name. A lady told me that um they sent her a photo of my driver's license, and I was like, Really? And she yeah, she got scammed for like five figures, and that was really sad. Like, I and this is where I struggle. I I went home, like I tell my partner about it. This is just before Christmas, man. I felt so bad, and I like I said to my partner, I was like, Oh, I want to like give her money, and then and then she's like, Do you think maybe you're getting scammed as well? And I was like, Nah, she seemed pretty genuine, but I'm like, Oh, is that my responsibility to like refund that person?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:52

Like, probably not, but is it up to people's due due diligence of being yeah, cyber not just cyber, just like cyber safety looking into you know, like with TikTok and like the Instagram as well, like, oh real and this is this, sweet. It's like you gotta be yeah, you gotta be careful, you need to do some background checking, you know. These people prey on people that are desperate and like desperate times makes more of these uh account scammers and people are sensitive and vulnerable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:17

And I guess it's probably like a good place to then go back to the start where so this lady basically said, Well, I was desperate, I was looking for a quick win. It's so easy now that I'm not in it to see like what the fuck did I do. But then when I started learning about scams, what happens is these people scam you once, and then you fall for a second scam, and you're more likely to lose money in the second scam. So the second scam is basically preying on the fact that now they know you're vulnerable, you've you've lost some money, you kind of know like this this is fuck, something's wrong. And then the second scam is basically like we can help you, we we can recover it. So it's called a recovery scam, and then you're like, really? Like, yeah, 100%. And they like show you, oh, your money's actually sitting here, all that we need you to do is pay us a bit up front, and then bang, like you just get like you get scammed again, and you're statistically more likely to lose more money at the second part, which is crazy, eh? But um, this is I guess a good way to think about it for all of us is that even if we think, well, I wouldn't fall for this, there are car yards and shit that do this to people.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:13

Hey, oh classic, classic CD car salesman, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:16

Like you could you could buy this car and it's you know X, Y, Z, but you could have this one and it's more expensive, but the payments the same. And people that are uneducated are like, what? Like, oh well, I'll take the flashy one.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:26

Oh, yeah, because the loan's eight years versus three. Or, you know, like, hey, um you've got no money, but your your pet has been injured or whatever, don't worry, like we've got finance available at the um at the vet clinic, you know? And so it's like, okay, well, you're not gonna let your pet die, are you? So, okay, now I'll go into credit for it. Then you're getting like marketed to. And identify all those places and go, well, I'm not gonna go there and try and remove them from your life. So it might be like, you know, it might be a certain bar, it might be like walking past or going past a petrol station, it might be a McDonald's or something, and you when you notice like I'm not at my best and you're vulnerable, and then they win, yeah, and then you go, Well, okay, if I can identify those things, then if I don't put myself in that environment, then I've got a chance to beat them. And then eventually you try and take like more and more of these uh things out of your life where you are vulnerable, and I can see all of the bad things that I do in my life. Now that I have a higher level of awareness of you know what I used to, I'm like, fuck, it's because I drank too much or I did this and then that, and then like you can spot all your habits and and you almost know, like, hey, if I put myself in this situation, there's a chance that these things could happen, you know. And so then how can I prevent those things? Well, probably by not doing that thing up the top, yeah. And when I learnt about that and started like spending some time exploring different areas of my life, I'm like, oh yeah, shit, I can yeah, I can see how that works. Yeah, that's I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:19

Avoid it when you're feeling vulnerable and sensitive and avoiding the places that you know are gonna let just double down on making it worse. They might even be online. Sure, easy, but yes, may as well be online. Yeah, one of the things I have to do is I'll just like have to throw my phone off. I don't know if you do that, I'd like to throw it on the other side of the room, like fuck off. Like I need to go and like chill out a little bit, just like the dopamine hits and checking messages and checking the pages and checking, checking, checking. It's just like nothing's happened, Scott. Like, you're just like getting all procrastinating or like sensitive, and it's just it's gotta chill.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:49

But even having that awareness to do that, and then like what I would say to myself is especially when I was trying to build a business, I would say to myself, like, would this would it be better for you to get off your phone scrolling or go and sit on your laptop and you know craft an email for next week or do something that's gonna like move the business forward, even if you don't even know what it's gonna be. And I would take myself out of that and go, like, yes, that will be more healthy. Okay, bang, put the phone down, put the scrolling down, whatever. And you start to become like more aware and more in tune of your time.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:16

Hard thing to do. I always find the tiny things when I start my less is so boring, but honestly, like the tiny things. I'll do my washing. I'm like, all right, we got a little win there, Scar. Like you started the day, and then it's like, all right, now, like, don't get on the phone just yet. Like, maybe just go on the computer and to just plan a little bit, a little bit of planning, you know, like make sure we get the calendar invites out for the pod, like, you know, yeah, little things, and just like those little wins. Then the big task that I will need to do doesn't seem as daunting as I got some wins under my belt today. Yeah, that's how I do it. I think that I think that this is not original buy at all, but I just it's I try to like discover how your mind works. Yeah. So you can then like some people like launching into the big thing straight away, some people like to exercise in the morning, like find your thing, everyone's different, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:02

Yeah, yeah, closing the loop. So, like, if you know something has to be done, the sooner you close that loop, like the better it is for your brain. So, like this morning, for instance, I um before coming here, my partner had put on the washing and it fucks me off to no end because um, and we've had this fight like at a hundred times. I'm trying to sleep. Well, no, I'm just like, don't put it on if you're then gonna leave the house. Like, do like finish, close the loop. And so every time I look at it, I'm like, A, I get I can get angry at her, then I'm like, that's not a good emotion. And so I'm like, I should probably just hang the washing out, you know. But then I'll have a petty comment to her of like, I hang the washing out for you. Um but for me, I'm like, it's gonna irritate me if I know that that is sitting there, and realistically I should just help her and hang that washing out. So then I will like I'll I'll do that. But if you go, um like oh the dishwasher's clean, like oh, I can't be fucked, like emptying it, but you're gonna have to anyway, like you're just wasted like all of that energy, and it's basically like just do it, like do the thing, and then I apply that into business. And with yeah, like Mikey, who's often on the Keep the Change podcast, he says to me, like, I don't know anyone that's better at just plowing into shit, so much shit that like your life goes directionally correct because I just do so much shit at scale and at speed, and even you know, last night I put $9,000 investment into US dollars into Tesla because they were down 15% yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:25

There we go.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:26

And uh this dude is like, mate, like what do you know that I don't? What's your thesis and all this shit? I'm like, mate, like Elon Musk, okay, you might like him or you might not, but like that's a once-in-a-lifetime generational entrepreneur. Like, he is just whatever you want to think about him, whatever you want to say about him. And I'm like, I'm happy for that $15,000 New Zealand to go to zero, but I think there's probably more likelihood that it goes to $30,000, $45,000 because he's the sort of person that has the ability to do shit that other people can't. So something that I learned.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:55

He got his car to space, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:56

I mean, like a lot of who else has done that people will say, like, when you invest money in um in startup businesses and stuff, don't back the like idea or the business, back the operator. Yeah, you start to learn, like, and you you can spot, you know, you think about it, it's really common. You look at people who are good at music or whatever, and you're like, oh, they're gonna go a long way because they're an operator, and he's an operator, and so I think, well, if he's an operator, and I've watched where people are like, his staff are clapping, I'm like, oh, but the world hates him, but why does he have so many staff?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:24

Like, if they back him, because they back him, yeah, yeah, and they must back the vision.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:27

So, like, that's really powerful to be able to do. And so I think, okay, I'll deploy the cash. Whereas this person's like, shouldn't have done that, bro. You should have waited, and like, fuck it, man. Like, it's gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:35

Well, one thing I find interesting with like the Elon Musk thing, especially like the other day with him and Trump going to each other's so funny. There's a bunch of kids on Twitter, it seems like uh X, whatever. But what I find interesting about him is um oh, I like uh back to the billionaire thing, like taxing the billionaires, this, that, and the other. It's so unfair. It's like, yeah, did you send your car to space? But you know what I mean? It's like sometimes like even like with I'm not gonna say these guys are great people. Like I don't believe they're because you gotta be a bit like twisted and a bit one percent. There's a reason why that yes, had help from family, whatever, but it doesn't mean that everyone who's got family money is gonna go and create SpaceX or create Amazon or something. That's just not how this works. You gotta be wired. Can I read you something? Yeah, yeah, go for it. Go for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:21

So so after yesterday, when I went to uh Wally College, right? This kid comes up to me and he's like, he's 15, man, and he's asking me, Hey mate, like, what are your thoughts on going to uni with the state of AI? And I'm already working on AI and I'm like helping businesses, and I'm like, what the hell, man? You're 15. 15, bro. I'm like, this is sort of kid you could invest into, right? But he he said, Oh, can I add you on LinkedIn? I'm like, mate, you're gonna be fine in life, bro. Trust me. And he messaged me, he's like, it's great meeting you today. Uh the I'm the one who asked about AI in university. Really appreciated your guidance, your answer. You gave me a lot of clarity and motivation. There's a couple of quick things. First, how can someone my age build a network of successful people? I often find it hard to connect with people my age because our mindsets and goals are quite different. Second, on goals, I set yearly goals and break them down into quarterly, monthly, and weekly tasks. For example, if my goal is to improve communication, my weekly tasks might be to read four chapters of how to win friends and influence people. I track everything in a Google Doc, but I feel like I spend more time planning than actually going or doing. Sorry. What's your advice on how to better balance the two? As I mentioned, I'm building an AI automation business and working hard to grow it into something significant for the time I by the time I finish school. I'm like, dude, but like what will happen is he'll be successful. And like we know he'll be successful, right? If he stays on like the path, yeah, but eventually someone will be like, oh, privileged, he needs to pay more tax. But why why can that 15-year-old kid like think like that already? But a 35-year-old is like, oh fuck it, I'm just gonna wait till the greens get in and my whole life will be better, or like, oh yeah, test. As soon as a government change, it'll be better. As soon as there's this, it'll be better. It's like why why is he not asking me about any of that? But like there's probably 15-year-old kids that are doing that too. But that's what I'm fascinated by is like yeah, what why are some people like but I think we demonize the 1% is because I think he's gonna look at like what how the it's it's I always find it interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:07

How did they get there? Yeah, like you know, you gotta even like for example with with Jeff Bezos, again, whether you like him or not, the guy basically invented like on like you know, the online like revolutionarized e-commerce and the internet forever. It's like have you but that that's the thing for me. It's like he invented something, yeah, it's something that everyone uses every day, and like I I I find that part a bit strange. Like, again, like yes, there might be some CD things going on, yeah. I don't believe yeah, they abuse the system, they're probably not that nice, but he changed the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:40

Yeah, uh yeah, and like that, yeah. This this one I I what I've learned, bro, is that humans are hypocritical and they're full of shit. So they can be like, okay, tax the rich or eat the rich or whatever they want to grab onto. And it's like we're just looking for something to be like, I just need to make my life feel a bit better, and it's it's gotta be something else. Yeah, so then I say, Okay, well, like, why don't you delete WhatsApp, Facebook, and Instagram because you don't like Zuckerberg? Oh, oh no, that's different. Like, but really, like, if well, a good way for them to not have as much money and to have less power, you get off the services, yeah. Um, have you ever ordered something from Amazon? No, like okay, great. What about Timu? Oh, yeah, but who's the person behind TMU? Oh, dunno, but why don't you hate them? Yeah, oh I'm just not sure who they are. Okay, that's weird. Why do you hate that guy, but not that one? Um, and then you know, like Microsoft, okay. Well, you know, are you using the internet? Like, what what phone are you using? Are you using um uh an iPhone? Like, well, why don't you get a Samsung? Oh, who owns Samsung? Oh, dunno. Like, are they a bad person?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:36

Yeah, it's just who's in like the circulation of media, like, oh, we should hate this person. That's yeah, that's another whole thing, you know, won't go down there. But it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:44

I think it shows that like we're not as in control as our thoughts or of our thoughts as we think we are. And so, but like if you yeah, and you you realize like a lot of and you know, I see this all the time, people being like, you should be like the world's gonna end, and you should buy gold and stuff. I'm like, how much gold you got, bro? They're like, Oh, what do you mean? Like, I I can't buy it. It's like why the fuck are you going telling me? Why are you promoting everybody then? Yeah, yeah. Like, go and do something about it. And I think this is the because this is the internal fight I had with myself years ago. Like, stop banging on about all this shit, go and do it. Like, if you think you're awesome, if you think you can fucking smash it in business, if you think you can be a speaker, think you can figure it out. Yeah, don't don't do it to prove everyone else wrong. Do it to prove yourself right and go and have a go and and find out for sure. And I learned like I can't be a Phoenix player, I can't be a Warriors player, I can't play for the Kiwis in league. I can go there and piss up and uh have a great time, and I might even sponsor the Warriors at some stage and enjoy rugby league, but I'm not a rugby league player. Yeah, I would like to be, but I'm not. But what am I good at? Okay, we'll get on with it and get it done.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:43

Yeah, no, I love that, bro. That's awesome. That's actually probably a good way to uh to finish up, I think, on that. Hey bro, I really appreciate you coming on. Everyone listening. Um, yeah, actually, before we go, can you tell everyone where to check you out? Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:56

So www.keepthechange.co.nz. I bet no one probably starts with that, but if you want to sign up to Money Mail, so it's the email that goes out every Friday, it has for the last five years. There should be another five years, and then I'll see where I go. Um, God willing, of course, as well, if uh nothing bad happens to me. Instagram, keep the change. Uh, don't go on TikTok because you probably find the wrong account and someone will try and sell you a crypto um FX trading platform that I'm not running, um, and have my license. If you could screenshot their license, the license of me, that would be good if I could provide that to the uh the authorities. But uh YouTube as well, keep the change. Luke Chemies on LinkedIn, Google Luke Chemies, I've got a website, should pop up, but then it should every you know everything kind of like overlaps and and you should find some hopefully some education to help change your life. Awesome, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:37

Love what you're doing. Honestly, helping out so many people, including myself as well, checking you out. It's just yeah, appreciate you being here, bro. Awesome. That's all right. Thanks everyone for listening, boy.