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EP #75 - MMA Fighter - Tyrel 'The Taniwha' Karaka

• Scott & Tyrel • Episode 75

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I had an awesome yarn with Tyrel The Taniwha Karaka! Tyrel is an MMA fighter based in Manurewa, Auckland, New Zealand, and trains at Oliver MMA. Tyrel has fought all over the world in MMA, Muay Thai, and BJJ. We had an awesome yarn about how he trains, the NZ combat sports scene, competing all over the world, his crazy upbringing, and much more.

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SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_05

Alright. And I'm here with Tyrell, the Tanifa.

SPEAKER_01

Karaka. Hey brother. Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_05

So soaks for you here, bro. We got a guy who's a multi-talented fighter. He does a bit of everything, this guy. Does a bit kickboxing, Muay Thai, Jiu-Jitsu, wrestling, combines them all with MMA. We've got a few records. He's a WMAF MMA champion, Oceania champion, world MMA gamma medalist. He's currently fights in lightweight and you fight out of um Oliver MMA out of South Auckland. And you're currently 9-3.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Is that right?

SPEAKER_01

Oh no, no. I should my record because topology doesn't really tell you.

SPEAKER_05

Nah, topology I I saw the but then I saw your um sports link profile and that said nine and three. So I was like, oh, is that?

SPEAKER_01

But no, I've had a few fights after that, so uh my record should be I think is eleven and four. Eleven and four. Eleven and four.

SPEAKER_05

And that's NMA? Um everything. MMA, kickboxing, grappling, all that stuff. Sick, bro. So first question I want to ask you about all of those. You do so many different styles. What have you found to be the most uh challenging for yourself?

SPEAKER_01

Uh for me, I find MMA probably like one of the hardest, just because you gotta learn every aspect of uh fighting, like the ground game, the stand-up, the clinch, keeping your range, especially in the smaller gloves. Dangerous, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like it's not like the boxing gloves how you can just land combos and then out of there straight away. It's different. Like as soon as you get touched, you can feel it. So you gotta be cautious too. And yeah, I'll find I'll find MMA probably like the hardest because you gotta learn you gotta combine everything together.

SPEAKER_05

A lot more to think about.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, did you um because I think with a lot some guys who I know who I guess in New Zealand a lot of people go from my tile kickboxing into MMA, yeah, and they probably don't touch grappling, it's not it's becoming more popular, but it you know, not re it's not very mainstream in comparison, right? So everyone's used to striking.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So what was it like for you learning the the ground game in uh MMA?

SPEAKER_01

Um to me, the ground game came to me naturally, just because I I come from a rugby background, so I haven't been fighting uh for long, like three three years, I think I've been fighting for now. Oh wow, yeah, impressive record on that. Yeah, and like I think on my first year of fighting, I try to um break a few records. Like I seen that Brad Quaker Dow had like 14 fights in one year or something like that, when there was like fighting kickboxing and that. So I was trying to keep catch up to that record, and just I wanted to be one of the most active fighters in New Zealand and just to see how far I could go, you know, in a short amount of time. And then after my first year of fighting, I think I won a title. Uh I fought on an Oceania new um comp in New Zealand and ended up taking that out. And then um my coach said, Oh bro, how would you what would you want to do if you were to fight on the world? Do you want to go? And I was like, oh yeah, bro, keen. I was I just like I wanted to represent my um country in a sport. And like if I was to go Dorton fighting instead of rugby, I was more glad they thought because I haven't been traveling overseas yet when I was um playing rugby and stuff.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I guess because you could you play rugby league, right? Yeah. I guess the opportunities for rugby league are kind of even if you get quite far, it's still limited, right? Yeah, you've got New Zealand, Australia, South Africa play a bit of league, do they? Um I don't know about Europe or Asia as much, but I just yeah, from what I the limited knowledge I have, it's just not very there's not many options.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And I just want to try something new, eh? Because I was getting tired of playing rugby. Getting bored of it? Yeah, yeah. Like, bro, I made the Moldy All Blacks, I made the Chiefs under eighty and all of that. Yeah, so like I've made a few rep teams in rugby. I wanted to be an all black, that was my that was the dream. That was the dream. And then um I found fighting and then had my first fight and never looked back.

SPEAKER_05

They just found it so much more rewarding.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, yeah, yeah. Like I've been overseas like what seven, eight times, or probably even more in the past year or so or two years.

SPEAKER_05

Wow. Yeah, yeah. No, never going overseas for like 20 years of your life, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Suddenly, and that's just all for training and just uh develop myself as a fighter because my dream now is to make the UFC Hell yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

That's a big one. That's a big dream. But I yeah, I mean, I feel like there's a bit of a path laid out now, right? Like the Dana White Contender series, the road to UFC. Um, in New Zealand, you know, I feel like now if you kind of you know get a few uh competitions under your belt, you can kind of like get there. Like there's a few guys at like a CKB who are kind of doing the Dana White Contender series at the moment, like three guys. Um I think, yeah, obviously we got Navajo who got through with it. Aaron Toe, I think he's doing it again. Yeah, yeah. Uh Cam Roaston, Battle Giraffe, I think he's gonna try again. Um that was an unfortunate match.

SPEAKER_01

And then the and then uh you've got Lawrence Lawrence, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So he won his. That's a road to UFC. It's different, right? He did it fought in China.

SPEAKER_01

So and I think him and Toza might both walked away wins on that one. Yeah, they did. So they're both doing mean, and uh, I reckon they they they might crack it too. I I want them to because that's more New Zealand fellas in the UFC, and it's um more inspiration for a lot of young Moldy Asians, you know, want to make it into the sport or make it big in in MMA.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So they're kind of setting the pathway as well.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, for sure. And I think like um I think there's now like because it's so interesting. It's so weird to think there's like a career for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we were talking a bit about before about now the rise of MMA combat sports in New Zealand, probably because of like UFC, Izzy, Dan Hooker, Kakara France, you know, those guys kind of setting the path a little bit with making the sport more popular. When did you see when did you start seeing the the sort of like popularity grow? Is there a moment in time? I guess kind of McGregor, but I suppose more in New Zealand. More in New Zealand, I'd say like when did you reckon?

SPEAKER_01

Maybe when Izzy Izzy started like going on those streaks and stuff, you know, when he fought Robert Woodaker and after winning that, a lot of people in New Zealand would that's when I seen it start like you know, picking up. People start paying attention. Yeah, yeah. And that inspired me. Like after seeing Izzy win that title, I I knew like, you know, anything is possible from a small country. And yeah, he just like built a big uh what do you call it, motive in me. And like um he's he's got this saying too, um if you can manifest things, it will it will happen. And on my first year of fighting, I manifested that I was gonna win me a title, I manifested that I was gonna um win for my country in the Oceania, and I manifested that I was gonna go all the way to like the final semi-finals in the world, and I did. Just having that belief in yourself will take you a long way.

SPEAKER_05

That's it, right? Because if and if you tell yourself you've done it, because I've been kind of doing this myself with a few projects I've got, and I'm like, no, I've already said like I've already succeeded.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And it's weird, right? It's like, well, technically I haven't done it yet, but if you're like yeah, if you if you don't believe because that's really what it comes down to. That's it, but it's like because it's those dreams can be so crazy, but it's like, but I'll it's like I've done it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Like a lot of people will like look at you and think you're crazy, you know? They won't uh see the vision you see.

SPEAKER_03

No.

SPEAKER_01

And um, that's why you gotta always have that belief in yourself. Because if you don't, then what's it called? You you start to get this um what's it called? If you start letting like thought and that get to you and that you start overthinking? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And then self-confidence kind of goes, and then you're like, oh, I should have just stuck with a normal job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What am I doing? Is this gonna lead anywhere? Because you don't see results for so long. I think that's the other thing with we're trying to pursue something like what you're doing, is like I mean you've got medals and you've you've done competitions, but it's like a small part of the story really for the bigger goal, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that's exactly it, bro. You couldn't have put it in a better way. Like, um, what was I gonna say?

SPEAKER_05

I'll come back to that. That's alright, that's all good. But yeah, so um so I've seen you did you've done a few competitions with uh BJJ and stuff. You're a blue belt at the moment. Yeah. When did you get your blue belt?

SPEAKER_01

Um after I placed third at the worlds. So I'm hell yeah. Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_02

Here's the belt.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. No, because so how I how I did get that though is I came up against a lot of I was wrestling strong Russians and all of that at there, so you know Yeah, because they just grow up recently from the age when they can walk. Yeah, yeah. And when I had my fights over there, bro, I was just ragdolling them and all. Like I was competing well against their grappling and all of that, and I managed to get a submission win in there. Yeah, yeah, and then most of my other ones were just by TKO, I was dropping them. Yeah, so I don't really want to go to the ground just knowing that you know those like a stans trend that most of their life.

SPEAKER_05

All those stuns, yeah, bro. It's all that you got those huge Russian last names and like then Muslim, you're like, and then I got my bros texting me back home, like, bro, you better smash those Russians, bro.

SPEAKER_01

Show them what we're like in New Zealand. We don't have wrestling, you know, yeah, it's different.

SPEAKER_05

It's not the yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I surprised myself, bro. I managed when I pulled off their submission, I was like, oh shit. Is that belief? Yeah, that's it, bro. It's that belief. Like, even the night before that, hey, I I just sat down by my um, because I was staying in a nice hotel. We were staying in these fighter hotels, and I was like, bro, five-star hotel, staying in a massive hotel with like um pool upstairs and all. Nice bars and everything, and I'm just chilling in my room the night before my fight, and I've just got my um because I wear this necklace before my fight, and it's got the cross, and I always look at it and I pray for before my fight, and I just told myself, oh no, I'll be ready for tomorrow. You got it, yeah. I'm gonna surprise everyone, yeah. And then on the day it came, bro. I sh I surprised myself.

SPEAKER_05

I didn't know I could do this, bro. Like, where did I learn this? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like, bro, when I got to the tournament, they told me um, so I was expecting to have like at least two or three fights on the day. I ended up having four fights in the day because I put my I was I was an idiot myself that I put myself in striking MMA and then full MMA, so I was in two divisions. He's one of it all, yeah, yeah. And then so straight after my first fight was uh striking MMA. I won there in the first round, TKO, and then um my second fight was full MMA, and all straight after that, my coach is like, oohs, you gotta go back into the ring. You just uh you got another fight for full MMA. I was like, oh, straight up. He's like, yeah, bro, it went straight back in there. I was like, oh hell. So I went went backstage, bro. Yeah, grabbed my pre-workout, took a full scoop, scooped it in my mouth, grabbed my water, and I'm like going, um drinking it down my throat, and then once that's down, bro, I'm just like, oh, like hyped ass back into my mood. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm ready, I'm ready. Yeah, jump straight back into the ring and end up tapping them out in the second round. I was like, ah, and if you watch the video, I think it's on YouTube. He um he caught me in the triangle in the first round. Oh no, no, it was second round. This is how I got it too. He put me in a triangle and then um I was tight, bro. And I was just gonna pick him up and then slam him, but then the ref told me, no, no, no, put him down, put him down. So when I picked him up, I put him down gently. I was like, oh no, hammer fists. So I gave him a hard hammer fist to the nose, bro, and uh like opened his nose, and then he pulled it, let go of the triangle, and I just jumped on top mount, started like ground and pounding him. He turned over, gave me the back, and then I just took it.

SPEAKER_05

The red naked choke, yeah, game over. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, getting in deep. I can only um I remember like Volk saying when he had that Brian O'Teger fight. This reminds me of that. And he got put in that deep, deep yellow team, right? Sounds to me like you're putting a triangle, it's like the odds are against you. That's it, Brian.

SPEAKER_01

You found a way, you know, looked them up and slam them too. I was like, What? But you found a way, yeah. Found a way, yeah. I was surprised, like, even with the adrenaline, bro. I was surprised I put him down gently, you know, like when they were told me that because I in my head too, I've got like I'm angry, I want to smash this fella. Yeah, so I was like, after just smashing him too, I was like, put him down softly. Oh no, no, just give him a hard hammer for surely, surely it'll let go. And then I was not expecting to open up his nose, eh? Yeah, and all I seen as soon as the first hammer for slandered, his whole nose started pissing out blood. I'm like, oh yo, we got it, we got it. Yo, we got it, we all good.

SPEAKER_05

He's gonna let go because the natural reaction is to come get touch your nose and what and to try and protect yourself. Exactly. Especially under small gloves, too. Yeah, fucking crazy, man. Yeah, yeah. How much um have you I imagine with MMA do you do you weekly do a lot of drills or oriented around ground pound stuff? Because that's that's pretty crazy, that's fucking tiring.

SPEAKER_01

It is, bro, it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And also getting back up, getting going taken down, getting ground pound, getting back up, like yeah, you must drill that. Yeah, you probably have to do that all the time.

SPEAKER_01

We drill it every week, bro. Like, my coach makes us drill it day in, day out. It's gotta become a habit, you know. You can't you can't be tired like on the ground because if you get tired on the ground, you gotta what if the fella stands up and you gotta stand up and then you're too tired to strike. Yeah, so you gotta get used to like being exhausted on the ground and then using your energy um at the right times, not always trying to explode and use like brute strength and all of that. You gotta rely on a lot of technical stuff too, because that's what comes in hand where you can like there's moments where you can rest on the ground and stuff, you know. It's just depending on like how the fella is on the ground, don't don't panic, yeah. Don't do none of that.

SPEAKER_05

How good are they? Because they have to, you know, work their round like side control, you're gonna work around to mount, they have to like work for it, you know, if you make them do it.

SPEAKER_01

And that's why I did a lot of jujitsu comps just to get um because when I first started into the jujitsu and that I used to kind of like panic on the ground because I wouldn't know like when I get put in these positions, I'm like, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_05

How do I get you get stressed, yeah?

SPEAKER_01

And I'm just trying to use like brute strength just to try to get out, and then when I find out um I if I get out later, I'm tired, and then they end up finishing me later on, and I'm like, oh hell.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, you've already tired yourself out in the process, so yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, because um, I I suppose like I mean I've dabbled a little bit in jujitsu myself, and like trying to just not freak out, yeah, like when someone's on pressure and you just gotta try and remain calm. It's such a like funny thing because you're like someone's literally gonna break your arm or choke you out, and you're like, nah no, it's alright. Yeah, exactly, bro. But it's so like um, yeah, it's unnatural. Yeah. I remember one of the coaches I ever spoke to, he said, Yeah, like jujitsu is an unnatural uh movement, like it's a learned movement, like it's not something that comes. I mean, some people might come to them naturally to do the sport, but it's not like a natural thing for humans to kind of do, you know. It's just ground fighting, it's just it's very strange. It is, and also watching it, like unless you know what's like low the sport, understand it, it's quite hard for like a I guess just like a punter to understand. It's getting more popular now, got CJI and stuff, and you know, a lot of MMA growing, growing jujitsu as well.

SPEAKER_01

And it's in the UFC now too, that are the UFC BJJ, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, they got like that karate combat style fight arena, which I think people say is much better for BJJ. Yeah. Because sometimes I've seen those other competitions where they just have like a kickboxing ring. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

People just fall out the ring, and I'm like, bro, those those jujitsu followers though, bro, they're serious guys, bro. Like I say, when I went to the um I competed at the ADCC comp in Thailand.

SPEAKER_04

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SPEAKER_01

Yeah, also I was the only New Zealander there and um Bro, I just saw like a lot of good black belt when they were competing in the comp and I seen this one black uh black belt lose to this other guy, and bro, I seen him beating everyone else, bro. And then like after he lost, I went up to him. I was like, oh bro, you're mean on the ground, bro. I love your work. Like, I haven't seen anyone do the stuff he does, but in New Zealand or anything, or like just in person. I've seen it on videos and stuff and all of that, but I haven't seen anyone execute it in person. When I saw him do it in person, I gave him his props and went up, like, bro, mean, and then all these guys, bro. I don't want to talk right now, bro. I don't want to talk. Oh, what a serious follow, bro!

SPEAKER_05

Was uh I love it, wasn't it? Craig Jones, like if you want to be good at jujitsu, you gotta have a little bit of the autism, you know?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But I kind of get it, you gotta be like so um zoned and locked in, and because it's so technical. It is so you gotta be a little bit gone, yeah, yeah. True, huh? Like more of so I think yeah, jujitsu attracts, yeah. It's becoming a bit more mainstream, but I feel like a lot of the guys, if you're getting to the high-level belts, like you know, you're gonna be a little bit quirky.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like you see my rabbi and all of them, that's that's their strategy and both. Well, you gotta have Cardiff what they used to do, something like that.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, but yeah, but with Georgian wrestling, right? Yeah, just taking people down over and over and over and over and over and over again. Well, that was Habib's whole thing, right? Just sit on people, just exhaust them, and then get but that was his whole whole strategy, yeah. Yeah, it worked. It did, but um, yeah, that's like that's a whole different game. But I feel like now, like with um everyone of uh I think we're talking about the UFC, like it's obviously still quite wrestlers still do dominate quite a bit. Yeah, but now a lot of guys who are like MMA, like they train MMA, whereas for a long time everyone kind of did a bit of training in like you know, kickboxing, jujitsu, wrestling, and then you kind of do MMA as you enter the UFC. I think that's kind of what people have said. Whereas now more people are like the best base for MMA is MMA. Yeah, yeah. You know, like so it's like it's because MMA wrestling is completely different from normal wrestling, and there's a lot of just talk about like uh American wrestling and like you know uh Russian and like the Dagestani wrestling, but again, it's wrestling, like it's not it's a different it's not the same as MMA. Nah, because you're getting hit as well while you're getting taken down.

SPEAKER_01

Like someone could be taken down and punching you in the face as well.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and wrestlers don't know if you're a traditional wrestler, you take someone down, you don't really know what to do with them when you've got them down there, you know, you're just tackling them, you know. Exactly. So it's like what do you do when you get down there? Yeah. And same with like jujitsu guys, like I've mentioned this on the podcast a few times, but there was um I always uh that Bryce Mitchell fight with one of the uh with one of the Gracies. Oh and uh and then uh you know the the the jujitsu that he was doing was like you know traditional jujitsu, but it's MMA, so it doesn't work. So all these like you see like at the end he got like elbowed and TKO'd and it's like because he just brought him into the guard. Yeah. But it's like bro, this isn't this isn't a jiu-jitsu competition that you can punch. So it's different, different thinking. That's what um because some a lot of jujitsu moves don't work in MMA, yeah. Because of the punching and yeah, and you like you don't have the same yeah, you don't have the same options.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly, and and a lot of um like fellas who do jujitsu and stuff is not used to being punched in the face.

SPEAKER_05

No, they're not used to the striking and that and the exhaustion of getting punched is completely different. Yep. Have you found that with some guys you've uh you've done MMA with? Like they maybe come from more of a grappling-based background and they can't handle the striking.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah. I've I've come across a few people like that in the gym, but like I just give them tips and stuff, try to help them out. I don't try like you know, uh I'm the man. Yeah, I don't try beat the beat them up in the gym and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05

What's it called? Gym heroes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it makes people not want to go back to the gym.

SPEAKER_05

That's like Sean Strickland, right? Yeah, yeah. The gym heroes. Yeah, bro. You leave it all on the line in the gym. Yeah, don't even get to fight.

SPEAKER_01

And like the buzzer thing too, bro, like with the short amount of time I've been fighting, like after their first year, and then after come back from the worlds, I think I was only like seven, eight fights deep. I had a pro fight straight after that line lined on Arsenal X when I come back from the worlds. And um Yeah, never looked back after they had more pro fights and Thailand and then I think uh I just gotta have a few were those uh kickboxing were Muay Thai, or those are MMA fights in Thailand, Muay Thai, Muay Thai, Muay Thai Muay Thai, but I told them though, like when I was over there, I was training at Taiga Muay Thai, and um Rafael Fatih and all of that was there, Anatoly, and um heard the name Raphael, don't you? Yeah, and uh what's his name? Chamayev. Chamayev was also there training for his fight camp. Yeah, yeah. So uh bro, I trained a lot around a lot of killers at the time when I was there, and um I told the coaches, um, I'm an MMA fighter, you know, I've never had any Muay Thai fights, I'm just here studying Muay Thai because I want to add it to my arsenals. So I was in the classes in there, and then um I started off in the what was it, beginners Muay Thai class? Yeah, and then the second day the coaches put me into the advance advanced uh muay thai class, and then I was doing this sparring a and I ended up sparring one of the glory fighters. Oh right, yeah, yeah, and then I gave him a mean go, and then um the coach comes to me next, he goes, Oh, I got you a fight next week. That sounds like Thailand, yeah, yeah. He goes, title fight, and I go, hey, MMA, MMA, he goes, No, no, no, Muay Thai, and I go, Oh hell, I'm not even a Muay Thai fighter, bro. I'm I come here and do MMA, yeah, and then um I end up taking the fight, bro, and I think it was like what four days notice that's fucking crazy, and then in that four days though, I had like five opponents pull out on me because I stayed on uh at Tagamuay, and then on the Tai Muay Thai street, it's like a massive fitness street, so you got hotels, everything, like most of the fighters all stay on that road, even from other gyms. Yeah, and um you'll see you'll see everyone just on the road because we all go out on the road to get our food, our smoothies, and all of that after trainings and that. And I think a lot of them saw me, and I was bigger than a lot of them.

SPEAKER_05

Scared them a bit, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then I go back to training the next day, and then the coach went, Oh, you your fighter pull out, you got a new fighter. And we're like, Oh, what?

SPEAKER_02

How do I train for those? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know which one I've got.

SPEAKER_01

So, like when it came to the night after fight, I I still had no opponent. And then um when I went in to go weigh myself, they said they're just flying someone in from Spain. I went, oh, eh? So this fella, I had to wait uh I think an hour, hour and a half. They told me go get something to eat and then come back an hour and a half, he should be here, and then um pulled back up in an hour and a half, and yeah, he was there, and then we weighed in and all of that, and then on the the night I had to fight him, um, bro, they have this big screen and it shows your record and all of that. And bro, on on his record, I think it was a hundred and sixty-five fights. We won 165 lost like 80 something, and then that's just ridiculous. Yeah, and then they said on my Muay Thai record, it said I had 10 fights and one loss, uh 10 wins, one loss. Yeah, and I'm like, What? I haven't even fought a Muay Thai fight. What the hell? That's crazy, yeah. And then I left I I lost their fight to that fella, and then um after I lost their fight to him, he came back backstage to me while I was taking my wraps off, and he goes, Brother, you're very good, man. Your hands scary, you're a scary fighter. Where you come from? I go, Oh, I'm from New Zealand, bro. Just over here training, I wasn't even supposed to be fighting and that, you know. But like I took this because I wanted the experience and all of that. And then um he told me, Bro, how many fights have you had? And I go, Oh, I've only had like this is my first ever Muay Thai fight. And he goes, Huh? Oh bro, next time you get asked or offered a fight like that, just tell them no, bro. Because a lot of people get set up because um the coaches get paid too.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, it's about betting and money.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so he took most of my pay, and then I was all good because I don't really need the pay anyway. It was like what five to ten thousand baht. Ah, okay. Which is like what two, three hundred dollars. A couple hundred New Zealand dollars. Yeah, yeah. So oh that's all good, you can have that.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and then uh that happens a lot, hey. Yeah, like people go over and they get like fights booked real quick, and then they'll book you against someone real good because they know you'll lose, and then they'll get a payout from it. Yeah, that happens. I've heard that it's it's so fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_01

And like, but it was good though, like he was a good fella, come back because he had his wife and his kid there as well. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then um, he was just telling me I got like a bright future ahead of me. Um don't let that don't be discouraged by this and all of that.

SPEAKER_05

No, I definitely if you're a title fight and you've yeah, facing a guy with what almost 200 fights or something fucking bananas, yeah. And I've never had a Muay Thai fight in my life, so you should take it as a yeah, you should yeah, you should be proud of that. Yeah, I was now because Mai Thai's brutal.

SPEAKER_01

It was bro, and I've never thrown an elbow in a fight.

SPEAKER_05

It's only the elbow to the face is different from a punch, it was, and that was my first time taking elbows to the head too.

SPEAKER_01

But like I'm gonna be able to do it. Yeah, yeah. In my head, I was thinking, like, you know, it's gonna like hurt, it's gonna hurt like full impact, or especially with me coming in as well, because I'm a forward pressure fighter, I like putting people on the back foot. And then if I come forward and he landed like a nice elbow, it's gonna hurt. And he landed like I think three, four clean elbows on my head, and I didn't even feel it, and I'm like, oh come, come let's keep going. And then later on, you're like, oh and then later on, I'm like chilling out, having food off um some of the bros I met over there from like the UK and stuff, and I'm like, my head's sore, bro. Did I get elbowed?

SPEAKER_05

And they're like, Yeah, and I'm like, Yeah, um, so um, one of our mutual uh friends, uh Jackie, uh um, he trained in Thailand as well. Yeah, you trained with him there. Yeah, yeah. What was it like training with him?

SPEAKER_01

Bro, it was mean, bro. It's like because all those times I was going over to Thailand, I was going by myself, no family, no bros, nothing. And like me and Jackie um planned this trip like I think a year before, and then um ended up making it out of the chat.

SPEAKER_05

So Jackie will go to Thailand, and then it never really happens, but it did happen for you guys. It did happen.

SPEAKER_01

So Jackie was there, I think a week before me, and then um he didn't know I was going over, and then um, so the night I was gonna fly over, I messaged him and I go, Bro, where are you gonna be? I'm there the next day, I'm gonna be in Thailand tomorrow in Bangkok, and he goes, No way. Yeah, and I think he was uh an hour away from Bangkok because I only went to Bangkok because I knew he was in Bangkok, and then um I think he was in Chiang Mai at the time when I was gonna about to fly over, so he ended up booking another uh flight back to Bangkok to come just come back with me and train. And bro, he just like showed me a lot of ways over there because Jackie's been to Thailand um a lot, yeah. He's been there a lot, yeah, and like he's got um good connections over there. So when we're over there, we're well looked after because of the bro, and um we got a lot of opportunities given to us too. Like I got offered to fight on the Rajadown World Series. Wow, yeah, yeah. Just because uh Jackie, he told the coaches, like, you know, I'm a good fighter and all of that. I've got heart, you know, and that's what they love over there, they love the heart and the grit. Yeah, not to give up. And I think I was giving the best fighters in the gym their hardest goes for um their sparring rounds before their fights, so that's why they offered it to me too. Yeah, yeah. But like training there with Jackie and that it helped a lot, eh?

SPEAKER_05

And like um What was like the one of the big like learnings you took away from that experience with him? Like, what did what did you learn? Like more like how the ties fight? Did you learn more about like how to condition yourself for uh for Muay Thai?

SPEAKER_01

I think I learned more more of the technical side of like um Muay Thai. Like that's what I was going there to learn, like sweeps and all of that, because I already got the combinations and all of that nailed down, it just comes naturally. And the clinching as well is different.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. Cause uh in New Zealand, like even like when we do kickboxing fights like in uh King of the Ring and stuff, there's a bit of clinching, but it gets broken up.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Um I don't know too much about other competitions, I haven't seen other too many others, but there's not heaps of it's not a big focus on clinching. Whereas in Waitai, clinching's everything, everything, yeah. You're clinching for sometimes like quite a while. Yeah, trying to sweep each other, you know, trying to get an elbow and a knee. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Now, yeah, that that taught me a lot too. When I come definitely come back to New Zealand, I felt like my clinch game was a lot better than a lot of people in my gym. But which which is good too for them as well, because when I come back from Thailand, it helps them level up as well. Yeah, and it doesn't take them long to like switch on to these things too, because people back home learn fast.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, once you just show them like a few little little things they can change in their game, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, it'd be easier. And that was the reason I did go over there too, is because like we have some high-level fighters in my gym, like now, and like I wanted to get a bit better because bro, I was just too used to my same style. And um when I was in the gym, I was getting beat all the time from like the bro I see ants and all of that. I'm like, maybe I need to change it up, you know, and maybe I need to try something new. So I went to Thailand and then I adapted more my style. Like, I added more arsenals, more the Muay Thai to my arsenals and all of that. And then when I got home, I was giving a lot of people trouble. Yeah, yeah, we got them in the clinch and they don't know what to do. And then like every time everyone tried coming and attack me, I'll be sweeping them straight away, and then they'll get tired because I thought all the time just to like I thought sometimes just to even catch my breath.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, just yeah, yeah, just to recover.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. No, yeah, that that's such a cool experience. How did you um was your first gym all of a MMA? The one in South Auckland? Is that your first one? You've just been there ever since? Yep. Oh, sweet.

SPEAKER_01

So like the reason I've never left that gym too is because I look at them as like my family. That my coach, he's helped me a lot since when I first walked into that gym. And um I I there's no other way I wanna repay him just by making the UFC and giving back to him and his wife for all the time and and stuff they put into me. And I think I wouldn't be able to travel the world if it wasn't for them. Like they changed my whole perspective on things and opened my eyes up to and yeah. I love their gym.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. When did you realize you wanted to have a career in uh in fighting? Mma is in particular, like when you when you were came into the gym and you were like, this is what I'm doing. Like when did that moment happen to you?

SPEAKER_01

Maybe after I won the Shirkin, I had one of the quickest knockouts on there. I bought this fella from CKB. Oh yeah. Yeah, and I knocked him out like 15 seconds.

SPEAKER_05

Shit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I'll have to go find that fight.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And then um after that fight, yeah, it just changed my whole perspective. My career or amateur career. And then when I did that, I was like, oh yeah, now I need to start really working. Like I do have potential, you know, and that was scary too, yeah. Cause I saw Cam Rouse and Eugene Behrman in the corner. I'm like, fuck, this is some big names, bro. Like, this fellow's gonna be sharp, he's gonna be ready. And then yeah, surprised myself and knocked him out.

SPEAKER_05

You've had a lot of surprising moments in your fighting career.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's what I like about fighting too, is like I um go either way, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And I unlock uh it kind of really is 50-50, yeah. It is someone might be the better fighter, but you land a lucky shot, yeah. And then game over.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, especially in those small gloves. That's why I love MME, is like the whole perspective can be changed around by one punch.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, one punch, one move. Yeah, yeah. It's so like so different in uh two. So even like boxing and kickboxing, like, because it's not the same, yeah. Even even in jujitsu, I suppose, but yeah, because there's just not as many factors to consider with that. Yeah, um, yeah, for sure. I also did a bit more uh like research about kind of like your background and stuff, and I saw a bit, I was at the TFS podcast about and in uh Manuroa where you where you grew up and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sounds like you've been through quite a lot of stuff, man. So good on you for finding fighting and pursuing something like that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Is it like I guess like from where you grew up, do you did you find that there's when you were young, there's not wasn't too many opportunities presented to you? Um in terms of like um, I don't know, like if it was for sport or you're like gonna be league, but I suppose like was it just a lot of bad influences around?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Nah, definitely, because um I grew up with both my parents were locked up in jail. So um I had to live with my nana most of my life. And um, yeah, that that's kind of what changed my whole perspective on how I grew up too.

SPEAKER_05

Family, you know, you probably changed your perspective how you view your family, how you view people around you, and like oh, like it feel feel unsettled, I suppose. You felt you felt a bit unsettled.

SPEAKER_01

Never had that father figure to like teach me the way, so I had to become a man at a young age.

SPEAKER_05

So you take responsibility for yourself, look out for yourself, find who you can trust as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that would be pretty tough. And then um and then yeah, when did you so when did you get into rugby league?

SPEAKER_01

Like you said you were getting in the Molly All Blacks, you did, you know Um I've been playing league ever since I was eight years old, I'll say. And then when I went into high school, I played uh first fifteen and stuff. I played uh union thing. Yeah. Did you prefer league though to union? Um yep, yep. I loved league. Just because even um so the reason I I got into rugby and league is because my dad, he was one of the youngest um Kiwis, I think, to make the our youngest to make it into the Kiwi squad. He was 15 years old. Wow. Yeah, crazy. And and then um he got a lot of NRL contracts and stuff offered to him when he was overseas, so he was training with the Raiders at the time. And then um I think my mum was pregnant with my brother at the time. And then he he came back home and then got hooked on drugs, bro, and then just went down for downhill from there.

SPEAKER_05

That's a shame.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Just wrong people around him or that sort of thing? Yeah, just the wrong people around him, eh. I reckon if he stayed on that footpath, he would have been cracking it and leaked.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, um I was gonna get your perspective on this, because I talk about this a bit on here about like tool poppy syndrome in New Zealand. Do you reckon that might have been something for your dad? It would have been, definitely. Everyone being like, who do you think you are? Gonna go and you know do rugby overseas and stuff. Maybe that, yeah. I feel like when when people get to get opportunities doing something pretty great in New Zealand, I think it is getting a little bit better, but we're not quite there yet. I think there's still we still like to drag people down.

SPEAKER_01

It is, bro. Like, I bro, I get um I think after my first fight on Arsenal X got heaps of people trying to message me and all of this.

SPEAKER_05

But like Is it's not legit?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Like they're making messaging me or fake accounts and all this. I'm like, bro, what the hell?

SPEAKER_05

That's not real. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was um this is some like um quote I heard from um another podcaster actually, but I was thinking about like um when you start something, some people will like maybe support you, but everyone might be like question it, and then you finally get the result to prove and everyone's like, Oh, I is legit, but yeah, yeah, but no one's really supporting you that much in the middle. Exactly, and the middle is the hardest part, yeah, right? Yeah, but you can start, and then people be like, oh, you know, good on you for starting, and then uh some people like oh don't know why you're doing that, but then it's like to put in the work in the middle, and that's the part where it's like that's the true test.

SPEAKER_01

Like that that's what a lot of that's what it was like for like say my fighting journey. Like, even when I started, um not much people believed in me, only my team and my coaches, and then like a few family, and then like when I started winning my fights, winning titles.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, everyone's like, wow bro, I do it.

SPEAKER_01

It's just like and then like and then after I got back from the worlds, like I established a good name for myself in the fight game, and in a short amount of time, I started getting like young dudes messaging me, like, hey bro, I look up to you and all of this, you know, your big inspiration why I started fighting. Oh, awesome, and then like a lot of people asking me for tips on like what to do, start how to start their fight journey off. What did I do and all that, and I just I buzz out, like you know, I'm not even in the UFC or anything, and a lot of young fellas are looking up to me.

SPEAKER_05

We've done a lot of impressive stuff. I think also to go overseas is a big thing in New Zealand, isn't it? Once we cross over somewhere and we win something somewhere else, everyone's like ah yeah. That's classic New Zealand content. Yeah, no, no one believes you until you until you've like done the seas and got like some sort of certificational medal. Exactly, bro. Uh that's that's not good. But hopefully, yeah, I think things I think one of the things um that's getting done well in New Zealand with the MMA scene and kickboxing and combat sports is the CSN. Because I think they started about five years ago, I think, and uh I've even for me that's brought my eyes more into like the sport. And I feel like beforehand that was there was nothing like that before. I think that's been a big help as well. Getting a lot of eyes on a lot of like the amateur, the local scene, and it's big. It is big, and I think without like now with more media attention, it's um yeah, I think that's helping a lot.

SPEAKER_01

It's helping a lot of us fighters too. Like that's what a lot of fighters, you know, need when they're trying to um especially start, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You go your first competition, you know, just to have someone be like, oh hey, like what's your name? Like, what do you do? And then you can learn how to talk on the microphone and you know establish personal brand and things like that. Because that's something else that's really big, I think, with a lot of guys who get into fighting and that, uh depending on your background. I think for yourself, it'll be great for your future. You got you got some sponsors behind you, which is which is great, but it helps you kind of there's also life maybe afterwards, you know, there's business or there's like ways to establish establish yourself and you know being an ambassador maybe or for brands, you know. So that's also what I like about it. It kind of you have to you also being a fighter, you have to be like a little bit entrepreneurial. Exactly. I think it's a it's a lot bigger than just yeah, fighting.

SPEAKER_01

It's exactly that though. You you have to be an entrepreneur, like you have to promote yourself. If you don't, then it's gonna be harder on your journey to like make you know well financially. Like with me, I I was working even when I was fighting, and then when I got um some good financial sponsors that were helping me, I fully quit my job and then started fighting full time.

SPEAKER_03

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then I was able to travel overseas and do all these other things, and like I'm still able to do the things I um I want to do now, just because of those sponsors, which I'm appreciated for.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, that's so great having the having those opportunities. That must have been a hell of a day, like when you can like look at your job and be like, see ya. That is bro. Well, what what what were you working on? What was your job?

SPEAKER_01

I was working in a tire shop, bro, like Alex Pereira. Yeah, yeah. Nice, nice. So, like knowing Alex Pereira can make it from the tire shop, bro. That's that's one of my goals too. Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_05

Shout out to everyone who works in a tire shop. Maybe maybe you've got a fight career, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You never know.

SPEAKER_01

Bro, even when I was working in the tire shops, bro, like say on my brunch or lunch breaks, or if the shop's empty, I'd just be punching the tire, shin kicking it, practicing in front of the mirror. Yeah, it's like it's like Tyrell, what are you doing? But I was good though. My bosses had um a lot of respect for me just because I was a young boy with dreams, you know. Not a lot of young fellas wanna pursue a goal or like something so big, yeah. Something so big, and disciplined.

SPEAKER_05

Like it's not an easy task to do, you know. It's if you've got to train, you know what, you train six days a week, I assume.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, six sometimes seven though on a Sunday. So if I'm bored on a Sunday, I'll go for a run or go train with the boys or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Well, what's um what's a normal day in the life like for you for your for like training?

SPEAKER_01

Uh say if I'm getting preparing for fights and stuff, I'll be training. So my first session will be in the morning, say like eight o'clock. I'll be at the normal weights gym, just doing weights and all of that, and then I'll do probably a 5 to 6k run. And then after that, I'll go into the pool, go do some laps in the pool, and then I'll do some breath testing under there. Yeah, just with me and my mates, like yeah, that's why I'm so grateful for the boys I have around me. They're not like bad influencers, you know. They want me to succeed, yeah. And like having them help me during my fight camps and that too, it's it's yo, it's big. Cause sometimes even when I'm cutting weight for my fights and that, it's start getting a bit. Yeah, bro, and I can't even really drive home, so my mates have to drive me home. Mm-hmm. But like, yeah, so the eight o'clock in the morning I'll do those sessions and then I'll go have lunch and then twelve o'clock will be fighters class.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

So I'll go do the fighters class, and normally it's like sparring or something, and then After that, um rest, go have a sleep, reveal, and then you got jujitsu and wrestling at six o'clock and then that's for like an hour thirty minutes. And then straight after that we're straight into our kickboxing MMA classes.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And that's what it's pretty much like, like every single day. And then on the Saturday, except for Saturday. So since we know we fight at nighttime, we train at night time on a Saturday.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, because you've got to get used to like the actual fight time itself. Because if you train in the morning and during the day when the sun's up and you're feeling good, but then night time, yeah, just getting tired and your body's like, Are we going to bed? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're gonna have to train your body to like, yeah, because I notice the fights are really late, right? Like 10, 11 o'clock at night or something. Yeah. So you gotta be pre like ready to rock at like at that time.

SPEAKER_01

That's what I think that's like, you know, hard at first, but then you just get used to it, you know.

SPEAKER_05

That's just once you I guess admit to yourself, that's just how it is, you just like just get on with it, I suppose. Yeah. Like, well, that's what I you know. Most fights people come watch me, it's gonna be in the evening, you know, like I'm not gonna fight during the day or whatever.

SPEAKER_01

So I think most fighters wanna just be the first fight so they can get over and done. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So get a get a cheeseburger afterwards. Yeah. And chicken, shredded chicken. Yeah, but I'm sick of chicken. You know, so um well what what's your like um if you're in a fight camp, what are you normally eating?

SPEAKER_01

What's uh um I have meal preps made for me for my sponsors. Nice. So normally it's like chicken, rice, veggies, and then I make sure I have like at least six litres of water too a day.

SPEAKER_05

It's a lot of water, right? Yep, yeah, it's so much water. Because that's that's what helps us cut the weight. Yeah, the water weight cutting it. Yeah, it's quite an art, it's quite like a art to cutting weight, isn't it? It is, but like it's quite hard. It's also not, I don't know. I hope your body's alright, because some people do crazy weight cuts.

SPEAKER_01

And like a lot of people, bro, I'm telling you now, even fiddles say this now, like the training, it is hard, but I'd say the weight cut is the hardest of it all.

SPEAKER_05

Part of in the actual training, yeah. Well, so you've got a lot to worry about as well, right? Because I'm um I think Michael Isaac was telling me, like, you've got to be careful how much you you cut because also you get a bit like easier to knock out and you get too chinny, things like that. But then if you're fighting at a larger weight class, then you've got to worry about bigger guys. Yeah, yeah. A lot to think about.

SPEAKER_01

And your kidneys too, you've got to look out for your kidneys because uh it takes a toll on your kidneys, cutting a lot of weight too during the year.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, because I guess you you really are like kind of like compressing everything in your body and you're getting real lean. Yeah, have you have you been alright though of your weight cuts? You haven't had anything crazy?

SPEAKER_01

I think the hardest weight I've done was when I was trying to make 66 kg. 66 kgs, and that was again just um I was supposed to fight professional actually on the shirken. Uh I took uh last minute uh fight last week. It was Ashley Bati's opponent, I was supposed to fight him, or his opponent.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um just because me and Ashley we trained, uh we've done a lot of training together, so we're like teammates and stuff, you know. That's the reason why I took the fight because it was one of the bows, and I just wanted uh I wanted our team to win. Yeah, yeah. And then when I was with doing the weight up, bro, it was so hard.

SPEAKER_05

How how how much time? Like, did you were you cutting weight for like a week or two?

SPEAKER_01

A week, I only had that's not long at all. Yeah, and then I got sick, bro, while I was cutting the weight. Yeah, so I like I couldn't breathe properly, nothing, shh. And then like I had to pull out last minute. I told my coach, I'm like, nah, I'm not feeling well, I can't breathe. Yeah, and then yeah, pulled me from that.

SPEAKER_05

That's crazy, yeah. Yeah, I've seen like the videos, I think the most brutal video I've seen of some weight cutting was um Islam Mahashev. Yeah, but I mean it was like dying, yeah, and just his like like Habib's there like trying to like shake him, and then there's a clip of him at the Habib at the end being like, Oh, there's been worse weight cuts. I'm like, what's worse? Was he in a scripture like dead, like trying to do CPR? That's crazy. That is like um, yeah, I found out like for yeah, because he cuts, he walks around like 84, 85 is Lama Hatcher, and cuts to lightweight, which is in UFC is 68, is it? No, no, 70. 70. 70. So that's a lot of work. And I think featherweight 66. I can't believe um Dan Hooker used to cut to that. That's insane. I'm like the same height as like I've seen him at the at the around. He's tall. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, how the fuck do you get to that?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, even to lightweight, but um, yeah, he does well. Kudos, well done.

SPEAKER_01

But I want him to win a title, bro. Oh, we all did.

SPEAKER_05

He's been in the game, he's been in the game a long time. And I love the way he fights for his. Oh, he's savage. Savage fights like crazy. Well, that Gamrot fight, the last one he did, showed a lot of so much improvement. Like, yeah, because everyone was like, oh, Dan Hooker can't wrestle, can't grapple, but he can. He can and then he was putting in Gamrot and all these guillotines, yeah. Like it was hard. Yeah, Gamrot was struggling, and Gamrot was exciting. Exactly. Because Gamrot normally's just shooting for takedowns and all that.

SPEAKER_01

So bro, you can never count Dan Hooker up, uh, just built for it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Built for the game. Yeah, bro. Yeah, some people like that, I suppose. I've I've I've kind of thought about this a little bit, talked on here as well. It was like, it's different types of people who fight. You get people who are kind of like more the athletic, the uh athletes, you kind of get more like dogs, yeah. Which is kind of like the Dan Hooker, you know. That's that's more my style too. More of a dog when you're in there. Or then you kind of get like a more like a like kind of like it's almost like reminds you like the like Habib and so like kind of like these like warrior types, like they're built for battle almost, but they're doing it like it's like an honorable thing, you know, and I'm just like it's like he's interesting, like because like when I look at someone like Izzy, for example, he's kind of like an athlete. I'm like, he's an athlete, you know, he's professional, but he's not like a he seems like a nice guy and he doesn't seem that crazy, but Dan Help are like, uh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Some screws aren't tightened enough. But you know, I think you kind of have to have that as well. Exactly. Or you yeah, different, different thinking, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01

Like, yeah, he's and I think of Dan, he's he's not embarrassed to show who he is, you know.

SPEAKER_05

And that's important, I think. People when I think now that MMA and uh combat sports getting so big, it's like people forget that it's a dangerous sport. It is uh and diff different people fight for different reasons, they come from different backgrounds, yep, and uh some people you know really need it. Yeah, exactly. There's nothing for else that that they could really, you know, there's no other option for them in some ways. So I think it's good, you know. Every time I hear about even like hearing from your background and stuff, I'm like, oh, it's even like I had Alejandra on here talking about what he went through, and I'm like, I'm just I'm like, man, shout out to your mum, like getting you into fighting on the right path because it could have easily gone another way, you know, and people, oh, it's so crazy, it's so rough, why do you do that? And it's like, well, might have been a different story if you didn't find it, you know.

SPEAKER_01

And you you can kind of tell too, like, with like you see with Alejandro, uh Dan Hooker, all of those followers, like the way they fight, and like you know how they're so in there, you know, aggressive. It's because probably of like you know what they've been through in the back, no one knows what they're being through.

SPEAKER_05

You don't know what's happening all the happening here and all the memories and what you're fighting for. Yeah, everyone fights for different things.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And like and too, I'll tell you now, too, a lot of fighters you find out uh the nicest followers, bro. Like they yeah, they're the nicest guys out, and then it's normally the followers who open their mouth heaps is the followers who's like you know not about it and trying to be the tough follower.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it's also a game though, I think, when you get to like the UFC level, because now it's about business, right? Because before it's like you're on the path, you're trying to establish yourself, you're fighting a lot, but then once you're in the UFC, now it's like selling pay-per-views, yeah. So that's kind of like a different aspect, right? So now you've got to think about how do how do I get eyes on me, but also it's American, so most people who watch it are American, yeah, and they love that entertainment drama and stuff. Whereas New Zealand, we're not really into that, so you kind of have to get out of your comfort zone a bit, I think. But that's you gotta sell the fights, you know.

SPEAKER_01

It's good though, because like it teaches a lot of us young fighters, you know, that's what we gotta do when we're in, but you gotta sell at that level, you've got to sell yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You've got to sell the fight, and a lot of it, I don't even I think some of it gets taken too far. Larves Economic Gregor and Habid, the famous fight, you know, that just went a bit too far. But then you get you know some fun back and forth. Some guys are really good at it. Um my favorite is a DDP. I mean, a guy's an absolute savage, yeah. But that stuff that you know it stands out, you know. It does, yeah. But then you get guys who are just super amazing to watch, and maybe they're not as good on the microphone, like um Jack Della Madelina, that was an awesome fight with Bilal, but he's not, he's a quiet guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he fights like a dog, like he's savage. The way the boxing is out of the gate, bro. It's just clean. It is, bro. So you've I'm like, wow, but he's again, he's not like uh one who's you know on the but it's also I don't think you want to I think people probably looked at Conorman Gregor and was like, Oh, we all gotta do that, you know, we all gotta talk big and go crazy. But but like it's you can tell when it's just ingenuine, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think Connor done that though, is that's just who he is, you know.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, I think so. As an entertainer, from like a you know, working class Irish background, you know, they're a bit crazy, you know. It's how they talk. So yeah, and then coming into like a bunch of Americans, and I'm gonna knock you out in ten seconds and then do it, and then do it, and then like to do it to like the spiders, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That was crazy.

SPEAKER_05

That's insane, eh? Yeah, bro. Watching that shit. It's just like, wow, he really managed to do it. Um, but I think that that's also the other part is a mental game and like fear. I was yeah, I guess I ask you about this. Like, how do you deal you've been fighting for a while, so I imagine you've probably gotten over this hurdle of like the fear of fighting. Yep. When did you like did you was it just time that helped you? But were you a bit scared in the beginning? Like your first fight or something?

SPEAKER_01

My first fight, I was nervous. Nervous as well, I still do get nervous like before fight, but I'm not scared.

SPEAKER_05

Like was that was that something hard to overcome, or did you kind of were you alright with it?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I was kind of alright with it just because when I was playing rugby, I was used to big crowds and all of that. So I was used to pressure.

SPEAKER_05

And then you're used to someone, you know, obviously, as a full contact sport in rugby league as well. So you're having people, you know, tackle you all the time and it's rough, you know, things happen in the scrums or whatever. So you're kind of I guess yeah, I suppose you probably would be used to like the physical.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I was because they're like if you look at me, I'm I'm not I won't be the biggest follower on the field, I'll be one of the smallest, because I'm I'll be a back, and then for me to like tackle someone massive as like you know, heavyweight, it was just normal for me that's I wasn't scared to do that, and then say if I when I walked into fighting and I thought someone at my weight, I was like, oh nah, nah, this is this is nothing new. This is alright, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Not like some huge like Polynesian, like oh 110 kgs running at you or something.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and then I think over time went after a few fights. I think after two, three fights, I just told myself, you know, I need to learn to control my adrenaline now. And then yep, I've heard Michael say that as well.

SPEAKER_05

He said that like you can't, it's really hard to handle the adrenaline on fight day when you're in there.

SPEAKER_01

You gotta learn to control it because when when you do, bro, the world's always stubborn, but like you see things much more clearer, a lot a lot more clearer, and um it keeps me calm when I'm like that, yeah, when I'm not overworking myself because when I was first started, I was just in there swinging, throwing everything, going crazy, and then you got and you realize you got two more rounds left, doesn't it? Yeah, bro, and then by the third round, I hated that feeling of feeling gassed and tired, yeah. So I had to I told myself now I need to learn to control the adrenaline. So in my next fight, that was my main factor. I didn't care about winning or knocking the dude out. I just wanted to learn to control my adrenaline to see what I'm like in the final rounds. And then when I did that, bro, I was way better. Like I looked tidier, I looked cleaner, and I was still getting I still got a few finishers fighting like that, even in the worlds. Awesome, yeah, and then so much mental, isn't it? It is bro, so much mental. I think majority of it is all just mental game, mate.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it is, especially on that level, but also it's just like so crazy because you're just trapped in a cage with someone, yeah. Like it's literally like gladiator shit. You trapped in there, you can't get out. No one's saving you, like the gate shut. It's like you and me and the ref will come in when I'm almost dead.

SPEAKER_01

That's why every time before a fight, bro, and I tell myself this every single time is kill or be killed.

SPEAKER_05

Well, that's right, that's it, right? Yeah, that's it. It can be, yeah, but it's it's like such a such a pure primal sport, and in that way. You learn a lot about yourself doing it uh with it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but it's always gonna be love at the end of the day after the fight. Well, yeah, because you showed who you are, they showed who they were, and you exactly we're all here for the same thing, right? And it takes a lot of heart to step into the wringle cage in front of a lot of people, you know.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, well, it can be yeah, tragic, can be humiliating, it could be amazing, it could be so many emotions go through, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Like, and I do see a lot of people, like even say if I'm just sitting at fights watching fights, like people in the crowd, bro, that follow like even when you got hiding, you know, like he's so shit. Why is he even fighting? Bro, like they shouldn't be judging him on what he's doing. Like, he's already winning, he's in that ring, he's in there, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, well, that's that's also a great mindset to have. It's like you're already there, like you know, like you're winning just by being in the gym. Yeah, I've already won against my opponent, maybe they didn't train today, or maybe whatever, but I win in, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And that's why I'll like I'll always give props to any fighter who steps in there, you know. Eve whether you're good, whether you're bad, it takes a lot to step in there, and like you know, no one sees the hard work you're doing behind the trenches, you know.

SPEAKER_05

No, well, that's the other thing. It's like people talk about the um what's it like the Rocky montage? You know, or the movies, like the montage is like two minutes, yeah, but that's like 12, 12 months, you know, every day. Yeah, but everyone just like ah skip that, you know. People like to see the rewards at the end of it. And something on my something on my podcast I really enjoy talking with a lot of people um from all different uh passions or business or athletes, musicians, it's like it's that yes, that middle part. It's like that's the the hard part. How much work, how much time? Because I think I don't know, maybe people there are still people out there who just don't understand how much work it really takes, yeah, you know, to really make go after what you want. Like you know, it's every day. There's no day off. Yeah, you know, so and I don't know, maybe I think people get a bit like ro they romanticize athletes or people in creative fields or business, oh they're just super rich. Or they're just super, you know, they're at the top of the game, hell yeah. It's like, yeah, but did you see what they did for like 10 years before it? But no one really gives a fuck. Which is not a good I think that's something I don't know. Hopefully that can change more in society. Because I don't know, it's about the work you put in, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is definitely. And like that was like me when I first started, you know. I didn't really see where I was heading when I was my first year in fighting. I don't know how far I would be able to make it. And then my second year after all my accomplishments, I started believing big things for myself, and then other people started believing big things, and then sponsors started happening, and then that's when I told myself, yep, time to go all in. Yeah, and then it's slowly paying off. Like, so even though I haven't been in the gym the last two months just because of an injury, I was supposed to fight on the SFL card that yeah, I saw a post that you did in May, right? Yeah, yeah. So I got injured a week just before the fight. Oh yeah, I was doing my shark tank, and then um I was firing one of the pro fighters, and uh, I was just so locked in, so zoned in that I hit him so hard on the upper uppercut of them hard ass, and I had no reps on with my inner mate gloves, I fractured my whole wrist, and then I ripped the tendon in there as well. And bro, it was painful. My whole arm just went pins and needles. Uh yeah, if there's any lesson to learn, where your reps? Yeah, bro, and then that's what my coach said there. He goes, See, I've been telling you weeks, bring your mouth guard, bring your raps, yeah, yeah. Because I'm I'm just big hitter, bro. You know, I'm I race up out of South Auckland, I I can take a hit and all of that. I'll be fine. Yeah, damn. Maybe I should have listened. Yeah, and like I don't I think a lot of fighters um don't really talk about it too, but like when you go through injuries like that and then like have surgeries, I've had surgery on my knee too, and um it kind of can mess off your head mentally. It just depending on the people around you and how you how you deal about it too. Because I had a say I had um I was going through a phase, bro, like after my knee surgery, I was like, am I gonna keep carrying on fighting? Am I gonna still be able to fight the way I I used to? There's just a lot of doubts going through my head, and then um my my stepmom and that they helped me. They just like you know, showed me all of my achievements and all of that. Like, this isn't the end, you know, this is just the beginning. You can do rehab, you've done it before, you've been injured and rugby, you've had surgery on your knees, you've healed that. It's time to do the same with this, and then so I went back to physio and all of that, got it all healed up and stuff, and then I'm still fixing on my rest at the moment, too. Still learning to heal that, but like when I healed it, I went back to the gym and then I had to talk to my coach, and he got he he said the exact same thing too like I still got a bright future and all of that, you know. Just learning to take um caution and responsibilities off these things. Because normally a lot of us fighters when we get injuries, we get too big headed, and I'm like, nah, we're all good, we can go back in there and train it worse and make it worse, bro. And like we don't know the damage we're doing until it's too late, it's too late, exactly. Yeah, especially with knees and things like that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, real careful.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's good. It's good that you've got good people around you to say that you can still because everyone would be like, oh, you know, we've got to be can't be too careful, but it's like it's fighting like comes with the territory.

SPEAKER_01

That's it. Like I got the best support system around me, is why I would never listen to outside noise telling me that's good, uh I can't do this, can't do that. I always believe in myself just because of the right people I have around me. That's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Did it take you a while to kind of get a circle like that?

SPEAKER_01

Um, no, it's kind of been like my same circle just as I grew up as a kid. I've always just kept my same friends and all of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. People who know you from like way back, and then people who'd like seen you grow and keep the ones who are wanting success and rid the ones who that's it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, let go of the bros who I knew weren't really like real bros, you know.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, that's all that's always a hard one, I think, when you're trying to pursue something, isn't it? It's like who are your friends? Yeah. You know, who are the the ones who actually want to see you succeed? Yeah, the ones who want to try and drag you back down, or they're just like, oh, you know, or they only want to be there when you win. Yeah. They don't want to be there when you lose. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like when I started making them fighting, Abra, I got like a lot of people trying to like hit me up and stuff like that. Oh, remember me. Yeah. I still get it to this day, bro. Like, yeah, hey bro, you remember me? Oh, yeah, I remember you, but you didn't really show me any love back then. But now that I'm like doing good and fighting, you want to know me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it's that classic thing, isn't it? Yeah. I'm gonna borrow some money. Yeah, as hard as works. Straight up, bro. Yeah, hard out, man. Oh, it's so great to hear all the great things you're doing. I think um maybe uh your upbringing and stuff is if you don't mind me asking. It's just about you know, you've managed to get into fighting, you've found a great path for yourself, and that you managed to get out of that life. Do you feel like you kind of got out of it?

SPEAKER_01

Yep, no, I definitely got out of it. Like, I still see my parents now then, like, go take care of them, give them um stuff to take care of them. And I think if I didn't have that background, I would never be the fight I am now.

SPEAKER_05

Sure. It makes you really strong in a lot of ways, for sure. It's a lot to overcome, and you know, that's something you'd be really proud of. But I guess I'm just thinking, like, to me, when I like the if you're around that and then to escape it, it's really hard, eh? It is from what I've read and heard from people's stories.

SPEAKER_01

Like a lot of people who's been in the hood and was raised around it want to get out of it. And like, there's people who try be cool and gangs and all this just to try fit in the hood. But you know, that's that's not something really who they are. Yeah, yeah. Survival, but maybe and like It's not a life you want to live, you know. It's not the best life. Like if it was me, if I raised a kid around there, I'll definitely this the first thing I'm doing is taking my son somewhere nice to a nicer school. Like, yeah. Just don't want him to raise um be brought up the way I was, you know. But it's getting a lot better though out in South Auckland, you know?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it it really is. Like, I'm there's so much development in um in Manacal and uh yeah, in uh Manurewa, like it's um changed a lot. Yeah, yeah. It's changed, it's changed quite a lot, a lot of new developments, infrastructure, a lot of funding going in in some parts, and yeah, hoping that has a good positive effect on the community.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and then like a lot of uh people's in and gyms and and like people in the community running like youth stuff for the kids and all that. That's that's the big thing, eh?

SPEAKER_05

It's like community centers for young people, give them something to do, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, instead of going out stealing cars. That bro, that was the whole my whole motive for fighting is to show the youngins from like you know, the hood, there is a pathway outside of um stealing cars and doing all this other stuff, is fighting. I wasn't saying I'm not even uh what do you call it? The strongest person in the world or the strongest fighter out there. I I just wanted to show them, you know, that if you got into this, there is ways to make it. And if you look at me, I wasn't even been fighting for long and I started traveling the world like a year and the fight game, and I started traveling. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_05

It's just um that's inspiring and that's great, that's uh so important. It's great to hear it. It's really, really great to hear. Um, yeah, no, well done, man. Well done. Sure, brother. Um, I'll do some quick fire questions, eh? Yeah, and then we'll uh let me wrap up. Alright. Um if you had to choose um Ooh, I'm gonna steal this from the UFC. If you had to choose if you had to choose, like like create your ultimate fighter, yeah, and you had to take someone's grappling, you had to take someone's uh striking, uh wrestling, and let's just say mic skills. So four different categories.

SPEAKER_01

Umitsu?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um my favorite striker. I'd have to go off. Is he is he striking? Is he striking? Is he striking? And then what's the other one?

SPEAKER_05

Uh on the mic, like how people talk on the mic. Conor McGregor. Conor McGregor.

SPEAKER_00

Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Um, favorite cheat meal. Um favorite cheat meal? I have heaps. If you had to pick one, if you go and have that, that's like that's the cheat meal.

SPEAKER_03

Um probably say KFC? KFC?

SPEAKER_05

Wicked Wings or anything like that. Yeah, I love Wicked Wings, bro. Yeah, get that big bucket. Yeah, that's the only thing I get from it. And the Zinger burger. A Zinger Burger? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair, fair, fair. Um what uh what music do you like listening to when you're when you're training or getting yourself ready for a fight?

SPEAKER_01

Uh hip hop, um Fredo Bangs, um CFG, Central C. Yeah, main mainly hip hop and rap.

SPEAKER_05

American and UK, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, sweet. Uh have you got any like um movie that gets you hyped up?

SPEAKER_01

Movie. Oh, actually, yeah, the Creed, the Creed used to get me hyped for like um Okay, I've been fighting. It's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Um and uh final thing, um what would uh yeah, what would you say to someone uh who wants to start a career in fighting?

SPEAKER_01

Um say you got a bright future, believe in yourself, and um stay committed to your trainings, eh? Because that's what's gonna take you a long way and build the person you are. Because I I think that's what helped build the character I am too, is just all the hard, intense trainings that you put yourself through. You uh established um who you truly are.

SPEAKER_05

Hell yeah, dude. Well, thank you so much, Tyrell, for coming on. This has been Tyrell, the Tani Fucker. Love that. Um, yeah, man. Love what you're doing, love the message you're putting out, and uh wish you the best of everything, bro. Thank you, brother. I appreciate you for having me. Of course, anytime. Thank you everyone for listening. We'll call it there. Bye.

Contributor

Scott McDonald-Bull

Host