EP #82 - Sleep Therapist - Bruno Petry

This episode dives into one of my favourite topics and if you know me you know I love my sleep! I’m joined by Bruno Petry, a sleep therapist based in Auckland, New Zealand, for a deep and insightful conversation about what really goes into getting quality rest. We cover everything from what inspired Bruno to pursue sleep therapy, his experiences at the Singapore Sleep Conference, and some of the exciting new technologies changing the way we approach sleep.

Bruno also debunks common sleep myths and shares his perspective on sleep medication. We also touch on the science of napping, the most common sleep issues people bring to him, and practical ways to improve your sleep environment.

Checkout Bruno's Links

• Instagram profile - https://www.instagram.com/brunopetry_sleep_therapist/
• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruno-petry-90345458/
• Facebook profile link - https://www.facebook.com/bruno.petry.118621

Sponsored by Infinity Sleep

Get the sleep you deserve and use the promo code “onlyscott15%” and receive 15% off your first order.

https://www.infinitysleep.co.nz/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And I'm here with Bruno Petra. Sleep therapist, sleep clinician based out of Auckland City. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Great to be here. Thank you for making the time for me. We have lots of exciting things to talk about. But I think before we get into a lot of things that you've been doing recently, for example, the Singapore uh sleep conference you were at, I want to first of all talk to you about getting into the sleep industry. So what kind of um what was what perked your interest in getting into your work?

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Yes, cool, cool. Thank you, thank you for the questions. Um actually everything started in 2012 in Brazil. Um so 2012 I finished my uh uni, and then since I started to do my uh physiotherapies um um um like approach between what I wanted to do because as soon as you finish your degree in Brazil, you can do everything like you can you can go for a um uh rehab, you can go to work as uh ICU rehabilitation, you can open your uh clinic as well, you can do um uh sports exercise, so you are allowed to decide what you want to do. And by the time I was very keen and happy to doing uh more like sport um like like physiotherapy, physiotherapy, rehab, so high performance, so surfing, uh kite surfing, uh jujitsu, um what else? Um like tennis, so things that challenge myself to make people improvements and and and keep them to keep uh training, exercising, you don't stop because they are injury, for example. Um, and then so um things is uh I was working this place. I met a guy, uh he is working for air liquid, so it's a French company, it's a multinational company, and he said, Ah Bruno, I have um I have one position available for sales, and um I think you might be uh apply for this position because you very kind of open-minded and you like to talk to people, you always uh explain a lot of the things you're thinking about, or I ask some questions, you explain overall things, blah blah blah. So, okay, so I didn't, and then I started working in the company, so it was um you call healthcare. So that means you are only on the space that you're using uh hospitals or home care approach. So when I say home care means like you are have any another uh disease, for example, CPOD that you have like lengthy shoes, you need like a ventilator uh to make you breathing at home or concentrator that's improved the oxygen levels for you can keep breathing, for example.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Is that kind of more for the elderly, or it could be for anybody with health con those sort of health conditions?

SPEAKER_04 2:53

Everyone, but usually more common for elderly, yes. Um because nowadays probably you can see more uh mechanical ventilators for um young child or teenagers, for example. Um, so yeah, so then I I start the field and then from there I start to see sleep, and then I understand wow, okay. You have because in uh on the um at the uni you can see something regarding the sleep, but not as sleep approach, more like you call CPAP continuous positive airway pressure. So that's machine you can use wearing a mask for for sleep.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Yes. I've heard about this, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

Yeah, so it's usually for OSA obstructive sleep apnea. So you stop to breathing and then you cannot breathe because you your base of your tongue block your airway, or you have a narrow or shallow airway for because you are in deep sleep, so you have relaxed muscles. So the CPAP provides this pressure against your breathing pressure to make it that's already opening.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Is that sleep apnea?

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Sleep apnea, yes. So but you can see CPAP on the mechanical ventilators because as soon as you uh finish or as soon as you end your um rehab, for example, for uh lung infections or lung um or respiratory um any problems, you might be uh uh request to start a CPAP therapy for a while to just make your muscles breathing better and you feel more comfortable to breathe on the ICUs, for example, or you finish your any uh surgery and then you are intubate and then they uh extubate you. So you start with the pressure to make you more comfortable and support your muscles breathing as well. So that's you you see about CPAP. So when I get in on this field, on this landscape as a multinational company, I saw sleep as a treatment, I saw sleep as a problem, I saw sleep as um as something that happens often for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Um, people like this is like a key indicator that sleep can improve one's life quality.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

Yes, basically, no. So and then I was uh I was very kind and very happy. Um because uh when I decide to do uh just step back, make more clear for our audience. When I decide to be a physio, I decide to help people. Because the only the only reason to be a physiotherapist in this world is because you wanted to help someone. Because otherwise, there is no reason to be a physiotherapist.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

No, you're dealing with people with um horrible injuries, especially from sport, especially broken bones to um in recovery.

SPEAKER_04 5:41

Yes, so you know, people getting sick, mental health, financial, um stressful, lose jobs, no, sometimes a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

It's a slippery slope, isn't it? As soon as like something like with impacts your physical health, and then it will um uh like the ripple effect of like your mental health, and then slowly like yeah, it can impact so many parts of your life.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

Yes. So and then you have to be no very strong, you know, have to be more precisely uh and then you have to deal with your pressure. No, so deal with your pressure is not something easy when you finish your uni like six, eight months later. So it it like you know, you have to to have this um personality, all this is strange with you, you know, and not something you I I would like to be, and then I will might be, but not easier as you thinking. So when I get in the field, uh back to the the answer, so I say, okay, that's amazing because I can help so many people in eight hours. You know, I have yeah, five people in the morning, five patients in the afternoon, for example, and then I can help these like ten patients a day, you know. So it'd be like 50 patients a week.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Wow, that's a lot of people. That's a lot of people to treat.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

Yeah, and then the treat was basically on um sleep apnea. Slip sleep apnea. Slip apnea. So basically they do the sleep study, come the results. It was in Brazil by the time. Results, you read the results, make they understand why, where it's come from, the reasons, and make clear for them to understand. Okay, it's not something that you can just lose weight, that's not something you change your body position. No, that's if you are on the CPAP therapy, that is nothing else you can do later. That is something you can improve, but it'll be harder to change this uh anatomy or these phenotypes you call that's your style, for example, or that you're born in this way. So, for example, if you are Asian, you cannot make as uh American nose in the body shape, yeah. Yeah, that's the same. Um, and then I start to uh see the all this uh worldwide approach as I sleep. Uh and in Brazil to be um uh work in this field, you have to had um a background as in health professionals. So you might be nurse, you might be fizz, you might be um doctor, doctor, ENT, um whatever you have to to to get in in this um place. And uh to call as a specialist, you have to do the postgrade. And then you can up do the test at the end of the year, and then you can call yourself a sleep specialist.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

How long is the postgrade? One year one year, one and a half, one and a half year to learn sleep therapy after the postgrades. After postgrades.

SPEAKER_04 8:43

In New Zealand is basically what you do in your tagu. So you're doing uh two years, one year is meditech, just like everything regarding the medical field, right? Medical fields, and then the second year is a diploma, and then you deal with more patients, and you do more exams and like as a multi-center places, like we have doctors, nurses, and technicians and physios, so those kind of um approach. So, yeah, so answer your questions. When I get in there, I say, Wow, I love sleep because you know change people's life. And then I start to learn how sleep is important because it changed my life. Because before I was a little bit um crucified with my family because I love to sleep, and then they call me lazy guy. And at school, at the university, I have a lot of bullying because I was lazy in the morning, because I am the afternoon person. Yeah, I'm not morning person. Don't talk to me.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Don't come to me. You're not a morning guy. You know, do you do do you work well at night? You're a bit of a would you say you work better in the evening? Yes. In the evening. A bit of a night, let's call it a night owl.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

A night owl, yes. Okay, that's cool. So, but I learned in the beginning, and then so things as that I say, wow, okay, that's his sleep. You know, and then people come to me, say, you change my life, you save my relationship. I can sleep with my wife, you know. I have much more energy to do my job, you know. Uh not losing my drive license, for example, you know. Uh I'm I performance much better with my relationship with my wife because you know I I I have energy to come home.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Energy to deal with all these things in my life. Yeah. An underrated part. One thing I want to ask you, since I'm I just since we're still focusing on early in your career, in Brazil, you did a lot of work with sleep apnea, but you're obviously sleep therapist as well, doing a lot of patients. What would you say was if you remember, what was the common problem that people would come to you with? They say they can't sleep, but what would mainly be the reason if you can remember? Is it lifestyle? Would it be like um other medical conditions? Like what kind of uh yeah, I guess the data like And this episode is sponsored by me. Do you struggle with sleeping and particularly struggle with light and sound while sleeping? I think it's time you get the sleep that you deserve. My business Infinity Sleep specializes in sleep well-being products to enhance your sleep quality. I've been using sleep masks and airplugs for the past three years to help improve my sleep, and I'm so stoked to finally have ones that have been created for my own sleeping needs. If you would like to learn more about my business Infinity Sleep, please visit our website www.infinitysleep.co dot nz. By making a purchase, you are directly not only supporting a local Huey business, but also this podcast. Use the promo code only scot 15% and receive 15% off your first order. Go to www.infinitysleep.co.nz to get the sleep that you deserve.

SPEAKER_04 11:43

I think there is three three ta three three datas. First of all is medical conditions.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Medical conditions.

SPEAKER_04 11:49

Yeah, they're getting worse with like blood pressure, diabetes, uh, overage, and uh they decline very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

What age group is this?

SPEAKER_04 11:59

Uh 50 plus.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

50 plus.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Yes, basically 50 plus. The second one is um mental health. So they decline with relationship at with partners, family, friends, work, you know, so they become more depression. So like work home, work home, work, home, home, work, yeah, nothing else. No, no gym, no socializing, you know, like very tired, very stressful, you know, like uh um very emotional. Like you say just one word, they cry or they now become stressful and like explodes everything. Ah, what's going on? They say, you know, just ask you the few questions. Yeah. So, and then of course, most of the feedback for these patients on the second topic was more closer to the family.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

If you if you wash the dishes and then you like exploded with the way you explain to me, or things like that. So they come to me and say, I don't know what's going on, I don't know what what I'm doing, these things, you know. Uh and of course, between they come to see me, they have the doctor appointments. So the doctor explained a little bit what's wrong. But when they come to see me, I explain to the exact meanings to not getting quality of sleep, to not uh getting the RAM phases, you know. Okay, if you not have the RAM rapid eye movements, you know, my emotions become very, very upside down, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

And then and if I remember from like from what I've done, uh it's like you need an hour, hour and a half, is it rapid eye movement? Yes, basically or yeah, generally around that, general speaking, in your uh ideally eight hours of sleep. Well, for adult, I mean that's another whole thing. But unless it's rapid eye movement, yeah, one hour and an hour and a half. And that's the deep sleep.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

Yeah, and the third one is um more regardless to the um um professional field. You know, like people say, ah, we have a meeting yesterday, Scott, and then you like ten minutes starting the meeting, you almost are sleeping. Ah, no, yes, you are sleeping. No, I'm not. Scott was 10 minutes you're talking on the meeting, and then you close your eyes. Everyone's watching you, and then that's become a shame, you know, like because you're not because you when you are facing these problems, it's hard for you to see yourself. As for example, people say, ah, okay, um actually yesterday you have one accident on Green Line on the Highway One, and then was a truck in three cars. So the comments will say the truck lost the control and crashed the street cross. Was 2 30 p.m. Okay. What's happening by the time 2 30 p.m. very quickly, you have you drop your cord, so you become more like sleeping. You have like very hot sun in front of you because you drive against to west coast. So, you know, when you get in this kind of pressure on your system to get in sleep, you know, you sometimes sleep you can f you can see you sleeping, you can pick the perception that you are sleeping, and that's a lot of car crash or problems people face on work because they are like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Yeah, and then they jump back up to the biggest.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

Yeah, so that thing that's the this tree um data, it's more common to see uh in Brazil.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

That that that's kind of what happened, yeah. Okay, I imagine the I don't know much about the work lifestyle in Brazil, but I'm assuming it's a lot faster paced. And then I would imagine like um in the afternoon, normally even I find this after like a lunchtime, like the body will like the cortisol is lower, so your body uh well wants to sleep. Yeah, you know. And uh one thing I wanted to ask you about was um napping. What's your thought? What in uh just moving a little bit over another subject? What do you think about napping at this time period? Is that a good thing to be doing?

SPEAKER_04 16:10

Yes, yes. So napping is very interesting. I think that it's we have a lot of data nowadays to prove and then explain data. It's it's amazing. So um some a little bit step back before you have this more than life, you call it B phase sleep. So you are the beginning of the life, you have this B phase life, means that you have sleep and nap. But because the more than life comes and you have this different situation, and like we're working all the time, busy, busy. All the time, busy, busy, we stop to nap. But yeah, nap is it's so important. Um Dr. Dr. Ma from California, she did a uh nice studies uh with uh NFL and NEBA athletics, and then she proved that NAP change changed everything. When I say change, change everything, change change the the uh the performance. So like in on free lengths on uh NEBA, they improve like 32% or something. I don't remember the numbers clear, but it's something like that, you know. On the three shots, they improved like 20 something percent.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

So what they did just from that's crazy. It's it's a lot, you know. It's the game change. You can win, you know, like the competition with one shot with three points. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

So but just from the naps for the snaps.

SPEAKER_04 17:28

So the the study she did was like they have to do an a nap between hour and hour and a half um after lunch.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Okay, and then but in the meantime, she did another study to use um she called a napuccino. So you have like a cough shot, go to nap, and then after you wake up, you have the caffeine buster, your your system, and then you're doing this booster, and then you performance much well. So that's she called napuccino. So it's a nap in uh cafe or cappuccino, whatever you drink.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

So um I did this test and then yes, works.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

You know, so hour, hour and a half of a nap. Yes. That's longer than I thought. I because I had a I had a look at some as a uh Cleveland Clinic and I think the Sleep Foundation, and they said like 10 to 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 18:20

Yeah, so but is that is yeah, yeah. Generally speaking, it has no more than 45 minutes. But on the study she did with the athletes.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

That's different though, isn't it? Because the physical exertion. So that that's an important thing.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

So you trade uh four hours as well. So that's to try to understand because the team comes from this way. We used to they when they play here, they lose all games.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Uh so it's also for jet lag. Jet lag. Ah, that's another big thing.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

They win. So what she did is she always doing nap here, and then they she see the difference, so they always win the.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Uh, I see, yes. So the jet lag combination, and also because they're athletes as well. So hour and a half in high performance, yeah. Because that's a big key point because these guys will get up and they're training straight away after they get up in the morning.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

They're training along long hours. Yeah, long hours. But generally speaking, nap, yes, no more than 45 minutes. Okay. And then no less, no after 3 p.m. Before 3 p.m. Otherwise, you get in trouble to get in sleep.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah, it affects the sleep quality later on in the evening as well. Uh I thought it was yeah, okay, so 45 minutes. Because I yeah, I guess there's probably a few numbers, isn't it? Because um it depends on everyone's probably a little bit different.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah, it depends where you are. You know, if if you are more like closer to the Ecuador line, you know, you'll be different as well because you know it's hot air. Yes. Uh and yeah, there is a few differences, but generally speaking, like no more than 45 minutes, you'll be safe for everyone. Uh, but like um remember it's 45 minutes in deep sleep. No the time you get in bed, and then 45 minutes you will get up. So, you know, like that's why, for example, when I do nap, I put an hour because I presume I get in sleep between 10 and 15 minutes, yeah. And then 30, 45 minutes I'll get up. Doesn't matter if I get in or not, I wake up by the time when my alarm clock runs.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Because I'll put mine for half an hour when I do it, and then I find um this is my experience is I don't I I fall asleep, but I don't get into deep sleep, or maybe I don't realize I'm in deep sleep, and then my body jolts awake, and then I'm like ready, and then I'll have a coffee and I'm ready to go. Yes. And I find that works for me, but that's maybe.

SPEAKER_04 20:31

Yeah, it doesn't work for a lot of people, and even though like I work in the rest homes in New Zealand for more almost four years, uh before I back to my uh my my background, and um so you see that the elders' performance very well if they have a nap.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

They have a nap in the day. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because when we're young, we in uh kindergarten early childhood said when we're young, we nap. And then we stop. And then if you do nap, then it's lazy. But it's it's like it's it's it's funny how we do that. But I think it's just the expectation of work environments.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Exactly and culture as well. So culture as well. Yeah, but nap it's so important. So if you allowed, if you can do these naps because change your life, and then you have a lot of improvements on your um um memory systems as well, and then how your sarcadium hitmans work, you know, day and night. So no you you become more high performance to engage with these chains on your daily night as your brain. Because one point is important here is quite people need to understand is when I'm talking about sleep and uh physiology or physiopathology, I'm talking about your brain, not about you.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Brain function.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

Brain function. You have your performance, you have your thoughts, and then you have your feelings, but it doesn't matter for your brain. He doesn't follow what you think, how you like, you follow what he likes. So to change. Change his behavior, you have the rule you call five seconds rules. One, two, three, four, five tick dan. One, two, three, four, five dan. Because if you wait more than five seconds, he can try to engage on your decision. It makes you say, Ah no, I don't go to the gym today. Ah no, I'm not wake up now. No, I'm tired. Yeah, that's your brain. Stop, don't move, relax, enjoy. So that's hers, that that's our brain behavior most of the time. So to change this behavior, you have to doing this you call five seconds rules, you know, like I'm tired. Nah. When you think you want to do something, five seconds. So I have like I have a routine I I share with you guys here because I think it will be very valuable. So my routine, for example, I wake up because that's my my normal um um we call uh chronotype.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

Chronotype when you know uh what's the better time for you to get up to work or what's between the windows of how many hours do you sleep, how your quality. It's not something that you decide today. I encourage people to go to the lab doing the sleep study or find any um sleep physiologist or any uh specialist in sleep and then have this conversation. So as soon as you understand your chronotype, you performance much better on your sleep uh on your sleep phases as well. So my chronotype is uh as I said is uh is um is the average between 10 a.m. 11am until 4 p.m. After that or before that, I'm useless. So no, those are the peak working hours, peak working hours or performance before performance, yeah, especially for performance. So I'll get up at 6 a.m. I don't use the clock anymore, so my body is it's very very sharp. And then that is uh we can use it, we can do another podcast using very specific helps for people, but basically it's between your your sarcadian hitments, so understanding that they unite and make your body follow these rules, especially a bray as well. Uh for example, wake up in the morning, open your windows, look outside, it doesn't matter if it's sun or dark or or cloud for 15 minutes. Okay, so you tic in your brain, that's the time you get up, for example. Very simple. Um and so I get up six o'clock, and then as soon as I get up, shower, cold shower. So after the cold shower, and then I say, Wow, now I'm awake. Of course, it takes me I don't know two years at least to get in this protocol every single day. Um and then it was funny and interesting because my partner that she hates, she doesn't follow what I did, and now she does better than me. No, even though she does in the weekends as well. Sometimes I'm jumping the weekends because I'm tired and now doing a lot of jobs, but she's very, very um very strict with her strict when so she does as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Very disciplined.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

Um cold shower and then fasting until lunchtime, no breakfast. You can have a coffee, we can have in another smoothie or shot, whatever you would like to do. Uh and then after no, I uh and then lunch, uh have my lunch as well, and then I have my first um black coffee.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Black coffee.

SPEAKER_04 25:30

Yes, yeah. Why? Because I wanted to jump the wave when the curts are all getting down around 1 30, 2 p.m. And that's the worst time when it's working, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Because you want to work, but you're now you've had lunch and you want to sleep.

SPEAKER_04 25:43

Your body's like, I wanted to drink more coffee or any I don't drink any drink. I don't eat sugar for this reason, you know. I don't have more carbohydrates to help my brain to function better because it doesn't work, it just rubbish you for your body, for your system, or it might delay the crash will be more significant.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:02

The crash is a huge problem nowadays, for example.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Um I noticed that with people I work with when in the afternoon they end up having like two free coffees, and I'm like, what's that gonna do? You'll get a peak, and then it's just gonna like little, little and then drop.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

And then more you rush, more you crash, more damage on your neural system you are doing, you know. Because you increase some specific um um substance between your neurons to connect each other, and then they become dense, and that's people uh um uh facing or feeling the brain fog, and that's the problem because there is no such connection here because there is so much dust um um substance between the neurons, and then make you feel fog or thinking fog as well. And that's the crash, you know, three four coffees in three, four hours, for example. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah, some people are crazy and they do that, yeah. Because like the I know for like some people's well, actually, I have no idea if this is about myself. I don't want to misdirect people, but when I have coffees, I try and like space space them. So in the morning, I've uh Dr. Huberman, um the new the American quite famous neuroscientist, he um talked about if you're gonna have a coffee, ideally it's better to have it an hour, hour and a half after you wake up. At least I forgot the terminology was like to get like the blood flowing. Yes. Because otherwise, if you have the coffee, it slows down the uh I don't know. So it slows down loving the blood flow, something like that. Yes. And um and so yeah, I've been I try and do that and I find that helps. But yeah, in the afternoon I try and like, yeah, I have to be strategic about the second coffee. Yes, very strategic.

SPEAKER_04 27:47

Um uh yeah, Dr. Huberman, he's doing a lot of easy, amazing job. So yeah, like if you if you're not part of the health field or you don't know much about English, if you listen to him, he makes it easier to understand and he does, yeah. The all protocol he did, uh many protocols he does. He's in Matthew as well. I'm very followers for both. Uh so yeah, I have three mentors, Huberman, Matt Walken, and Dr. Honda. So for me, they are the best ones in the world nowadays. The reason I'm saying that it's because they prove on the studies. Okay. I my approach is sleeping um sleep therapy uh based in performancing in studies. So everything I do, everything I'm looking for, everything I recommend people do have to be being studies to prove non-level A, meta-analysis, cohort, all those things, you know, not just like a simple study, no no no. So all the protocols uh doing very well. He actually I started to use thus these products.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

So I don't know make any advertising because they don't pay nothing for me. It's very good, yeah. So I just share with you because Dr. Honda and um Stevie from the DR of CEO, the CEO of their uh the DR of CO.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

What CEO, sorry?

SPEAKER_04 29:12

Yeah, D, how they call um American company, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Or New Zealand?

SPEAKER_04 29:16

No, no, he's a YouTuber, Stevenson. Steven from the Dier Dairy of CEO.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Oh, diary of CEO, yeah. I got you, I got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:25

So we have a you have um very nice podcast between Dr. Honda and him, and then she started to talking about these products, and I was very keen to try. And then I did, and then fuck me. It was great. Fuck game changer. Game change.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Wow, I have to check it out.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:44

So uh we can check later because I don't know how it'd be for the podcast to use.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah, but advertise away. They advertise me.

SPEAKER_04 29:52

Yes, we will help each other. So it's an American company, and then Stevie from the the RFCO, he he bought he uh he brought half of the company as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

I see.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

Um and then I okay, I never tried these things before. You know, I'm very, very carefully what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

What you put in your body in my body as well.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

So I did a lot of research, a little research, uh, and then kind of I see the the improvements and then see that they they are doing a lot of uh research regarding how this can change. And um and then I saw some some um some guys from the Tour of France for the cycling. Um and then I saw some podcasts that mention the products as well. Uh and I said, oh okay. Um I I like these guys, I like the the the the training they do, you know. I know who's the the um the um they um the coach, you know, they are very very um carefully coached to use the products because they don't want to mix or mix everything was before with that uh uh huge situation with uh Arnold um Armstrong how they call that Lance Armstrong. Lance Armstrong yeah Lance um yeah so and then I yeah I brought some some some of these products and yeah, so like I don't drink so much coffee anymore.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Wow because I've been real bad and I've I've talked about here before is um Boss Coffee. I'm uh oh man, they got me. They got me good. Yeah, but it's great. It's also and also um in the New Zealand market, um work in marketing, I kind of looked at them a little bit and because they really came in and just took over the um canned coffee like uh like completely, like almost like a monopoly. Um, because there's other companies in New Zealand who do canned coffee, but boss coffee, I think they came in at a time where there just wasn't it wasn't really in supermarkets, it's not really at petrol gas stations, and they came in and just flooded the market, lots of advertising, lots of marketing. And when people think of canned coffee, people think of Boss Coffee, yeah, which is crazy. Um because in um I don't know about Brazil, but I've I've traveled around Asia. Oh, you're just in Singapore as well. They've got so many brands. There's like a million brands of like canned coffee, but in New Zealand, Vos Coffee did very well. So shout out to them.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

Definitely, I agree. Yes. So and then actually as well, we're here in New Zealand um about coffee. Um we we you are lucky to find a good uh good coffee as well.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah, we're very spoiled in New Zealand, we've got very good coffee. Yeah, we're very we're very proud of that.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

Yes, exactly. And usually I I drink when I drink coffee, you know, I like to drink um like a filter as well.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Filter coffee. It's pure. Yeah, more of a pure coffee, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:45

Um but yeah, too much coffee is not healthy.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

What's that caffeine thing, isn't it? Yeah, you've got the the right kind of caffeine if that's possible.

SPEAKER_04 32:53

There's a lot of papers saying that coffee's good, but you need to understand the good the good for who, how many it's a balance?

SPEAKER_01 33:02

It's the balance, right? You can't have too much, but then it does help. But it's like what's in the coffee. I'm really bad. I mean, I really enjoy a moccasino coffee, but I know that it's not that healthy. But I have my vice.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

Yeah, you know, humans, you know, you need to enjoy the life.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Sometimes you've got to enjoy the life, exactly. But yeah, I do uh every now and again I'll have a long black and that if that's if I really need to get some work done, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:25

Long black and then that really gives a good Yeah, and then I learned to drink coffee in Singapore as cold coffee.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Cold coffee.

SPEAKER_04 33:33

Yeah, it was very good. I didn't try before, you know. So yeah, of course, that is very hot and humid. So cold coffee. Amazing. Ice ice coffee. Met very well nicely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Well, that's a good segue into our next part. You just came back from your conference in Singapore. Um were the were there any um new findings or new data that you um came across there that sort of um I don't know, would you say you let you learn some new things while you're in Singapore?

SPEAKER_04 34:02

Yes, yes. It was an amazing conference. Um was uh around 4,000 people. Um so that was the hugest uh conference um you know to see um people around the world talking about sleep. Uh of course you have the ATS uh conference, it's like 40, 50,000 people, but like you have more industry around. What's that?

SPEAKER_01 34:26

What's the ATS?

SPEAKER_04 34:27

ATS is the um American uh Torex uh conference. Uh so it's kind of more card join uh functions, length functions, it's sleep as well, but you have more companies.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Uh I see more companies are a part of it. More business, more business oriented as well. Uh it's not as scientific. Yeah, I see.

SPEAKER_04 34:49

So Sleep World uh was more scientific as well, but it's you you see more improvements as well. You see, uh I saw there like Samsung, so improving a lot of um data uh and change the way you use your Apple Watch or Samsung or Aurea or any other device you're using to track your health your sleep, for example. So they come with the future, uh they combine like ACG, blood pressure, um sleep um as well, uh your body uh movement to see how you your movements during the night. So they have all those data, and then uh the end of the day, you have the sleep coach to guide you what you can do better. So sleep coach, for example, uh squats, you are sleeping 80 hours in 50 minutes per day. Um you are walking 10,000 um um steps a day. Step a day. You are um your blood pressure it's is the average, no, no, 120 for 80 mmg. Um what else? Um you have good quality of REM sleep. So basing on your data, our suggestion between your age and uh on your data, you should be sleeping a little bit more, a little bit less, drink more water, less water. So it's kind of game change because if you're looking down other companies, they don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

No, they're giving you like actionable insights into actually what you need, personalized insights.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

You know, and not just a point of view, no, as Apple.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:29

No point Apple is a point of view. Ah, okay. I have an Apple, and then they say, uh, use uh that's your your your sleep data. Okay, what else? What I can do that that's most of the patients come to me. I have this data.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

What do I do with it?

SPEAKER_04 36:46

What am I doing? Yeah, like how can I understand it? How can I read the data? How can I make this data working for me? Because otherwise, you know, I have Aurea, and then like of course, you have Whoop. I think who is the best one to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Very popular right now, very popular.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

Uh I have Whoop uh since 2002, I think. Okay, yeah. So I use it for a year and a half um to see how this works. And and then it was very good. And when they introduced the EI, it was much better because make people more understandable in what's what's going on and read the data for you, make it more clear each step. Uh, of course, the the algorithms is is more precisely, um, but again, how can they use the data to help me? And that's the translation you cannot find in any place. So Samsung changed the game, he put these these um these um factor fixtures to they call sleep coach. So they guide you the steps, they guide you what you can do, they guide you to say what what's the next step you can do, how you can performance much better. Um, so that's the new for technology, I would say. I think um the conference.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Wow, yeah, that that's a huge step, isn't it? Yeah, personalized, actionable insights of how to improve your sleep.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

So they analyzing four million people for the last two years around the world. And so I I have the paper here, so they they they they launched the paper uh before the conference. Um and it was interesting because a lot of the the data show uh different times to sleep, of course. Uh people close to the Ecuador line, they have like less shorter sleep, for example. Uh we from Bottle, as New Zealand and Australia, you sleep more longer hours. Longer hours. Um so yeah, I think for the next few years, um the companies will improve more uh how to translate the data for the customer uh consumer for the consumer. The consumer uh and make this uh more simple for you to the everyday person to understand how you can use this data as well. In another hand, uh about science, you see more these studies coming to personalizing your sleep. So before you're using the words or the phrase or the the approach as uh general speaking, seven to nine hours it's the average for adults. Alright? So you're still using this approach, you're still using these terms, but now you with more data, with more studies, with the neurosciences to help us as human, as Honda, as Matt Walken, and another lot of guys around the world. Um we're more keen and more um uh precisely to deal as an individual approach. So I cannot tell i squat you have to sleep 80 hours now. You have to do the sleep study, you have to answer some questionnaires, I have to follow you at least three, four months to see your habits and behave, and then I can tell you how many hours do we need, and then tell you if the because uh with this zip study and EI now, for example, it's another topic as well.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

But it's very personalized, even just in in general with AI, the way it talks to you and you work with it is very personalized. So that's what we're moving to, isn't it? More of a personalized experience, like you're even saying with the Samsung, the data. Yes, you know, for example the expectations of the consumer is like it needs to be for me. You can't, it's like, oh, it's for this age bracket. It's like that does not almost like you're saying it's not good enough anymore. People need the personalized experience.

SPEAKER_04 40:44

Yes, and that's and that's the way as um sleep therapist, as uh as what I've been doing most of my my life, um as the way I see people's change lives, you know, because they can see themselves um how do they say no, I'm my neighbor, my colleague, or whatever doing this, uh I should doing this as well, or I shouldn't follow no no who you are first, how you are. So chronotype, phenotype, endotype. So all these names is describe how I can describe who you are. So now phenotype, endotype, chronotype is more like okay, it's my anatomy working this way. I'm Asian, or I am in Pacific Island, no huge guys, strong guys, or I am a Brazilian, Portuguese, Italian, French, German, Dutch, Spanish, Eastern European, you know, like everything mixed, you know. So no, so that's the way you're looking for more now. Um and I think the the third point uh was EI. So isn't it is it's it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

We will we can escape it.

SPEAKER_04 41:56

Yeah, um, so on in some points, EI will be very helpful for us on the sleep field, especially on the labs, especially to diagnosed people, especially to when I say diagnostic people, like you know, help the technicians to analyze these studies and see if there is any gap you you miss it. Because a human being, like if you not sleep well, not because you sleep in the lab. Honestly, I have been in this field for 14 years. I have been in a lot of labs in my whole life, you know, and then I see you know, as soon as you work in this field, you look in the people, uh look at people, you see if they sleep well or not. For me, it's clear to define you if you sleep well or not, you know, because I can see your eyes, I can see your skin, I can see uh how you your behavior. It's clear for me to see if you have good sleep for the last couple of days or not. So in the lab, of course, because you were working on the computers and numbers, you know, you have to score means like you need to see the the brake waves, you know, delta, all these brake waves, all these chains. You're very focused. So it's it's easy for you to miss something sometimes. Sometimes it's small, no bigger things.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

We're human beings at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 43:11

Yeah, you know, so that's the AI, be more precisely.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

So the machine learning, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

Yeah, for machine learning, this point. So I'm very happy to see and have EI on my back to help me to make a more precise approach in different ways. But but on the other hand, you see a lot of people perhaps thinking that ah okay, I lose my job a technician. Ah, I lose my job because the EI. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

It's an assistant.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

You can see clear on the conference, on the on the on the sash, on the on the uh people are talking about EI, it's very easy to see the explanation to say like they not can change the way you are doing, the ad change how you are doing. You know, so for example, uh Scott. Um we have around the world at least one billion people suffering for OSCA, obvious or tip sleep apnea, without treatment.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Wow. That's a lot of people suffering. No, so but they but they probably don't they might not even have the educational knowledge of what that is, right?

SPEAKER_04 44:19

Yes. Exactly. So if you have EI, you might be improved in sleep studies. We're not do enough. So you know we have a lot of technology in sleep studies, but if you look in New Zealand, for example, it takes six, seven months for you to get in on the lab.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:36

Even though you are on the privacy. You know, I know labs in Auckland doing um Saturday um consultation to try to make the list shorter.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Right. So like you can imagine like less patience, less patient.

SPEAKER_04 44:55

You know, on the Saturday. I know that some labs around the world pay people around the world to score the sleep study because the queue is so long, they wanted to make it shorter as a a week. So you do your sleep study today, they make sure that in one week you have the results.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

So it's not enough time.

SPEAKER_04 45:14

So you know, so and still a lot of people on the street know without any treatment, without any concerns. So that's why when people follow um or see my my communication or my social medias, they are always be the first question, why we sleep, you know, and why sleep matters. Because it's a two fundamental cast questions that we're not uh worried about. We not have been um as a human being, um introduced these questions or or become as part of our learning as a kid why sleep is important. You know, you nowadays you might be see parents ask the kids, did you sleep well? But if the the kids don't know why sleeping well, they say yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Yeah, what is sleeping well?

SPEAKER_04 46:06

Well sleeping well, you know. Uh we have a lot of good papers and very nice uh papers from um from Otago uh and they are doing a lot of uh studies on kids' behavior um about sleep uh and um try to um help um the field, uh especially now the parents to understand what's going on with the kids. And very quickly, what they do is they put a camera uh at the room so the kids doesn't know the camera by their camera and a camera on the chest of the kids, so they go to sleep. Uh so they knew that the camera would be on, this one here, uh, and then it'd be off in some stage. Um so like there is some study that the kids the behavior is they have like a another uh cell phone, one other iPad, and as soon as the mom and daddy get away to the job, they get using, you know, like when they come, they try to not um trying to hide the phone, hide the phone and hide the iPad. So, you know, like five years old. Yeah, I'm talking about six years old, you know. You see these behaviors, you know, like you know how you can imagine like you hide another cell phone, or sometimes they take the cell phone for another brother, you know, or uh and then hide for a while because they wanted to use it later, for example. Um, so yeah, the studies showing that you know, even though as a human you change the um the behavior to understand how good or how important is sleep. Um so yeah, I think AI is is around in the corner, um, and then make a lot of change, a huge change. Uh I'm very keen to see this change, especially on sleep studies, to make more and prove more, and then you can do more studies, sleep studies in our population, because that's the only way you can identify if you have problems on your sleep quality.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

So the kind of takeaways I'm getting is like the machine learning and also the more the more accuracy because human beings we're not 100% accurate compared to machine learning, and then also communication probably from an AI to tell someone what's happening with their sleep and what the problem is, potentially better because it's more personalized for them to understand the information, right? Yes, yes, definitely. Because I know with science, like years ago when I was at university and dropped out of university, but I did a paper in communication of science. It's actually a very good paper, but this is at Oak and Uni. And I remember like the whole point of it was like um to get you to kind of what we're talking about, like you can tell people all this scientific information, technical data about what they can do to improve their sleep or things they need to do, but the common person doesn't understand it. So then how do you get through to them? How do you get this information to get through that it is important? Yes, you know, so I feel like with AI it'll probably the the help with that a lot too. Because um it does like the layman, you know, we talk about REM sleep, or you talk about you know some more technical aspects, and people are kind of like, Why should I care? Like, what is that? You know, they'll be like, Okay, yeah, hundred percent.

SPEAKER_04 49:25

And that that's my biggest challenge squad nowadays, you know. That's why I'm very happy to be here with you to talking about sleeping your old cats, and they'll put these words outside because that's most people sometimes, uh especially between like 25 plus to 45 plus, that's like Bruno, I don't care. It doesn't matter for me, you know.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Why and then it's like why should I care? And it's like well and then medicine. Why should I care?

SPEAKER_04 49:49

Like, you know, I'm no, I'm doing very well, have my my car, my house, and my work, you know, I'm performance very well. Now I can use some some some drugs to performance well, I can use some supplements to to find the way, you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

That segue isn't something else I want to talk to you about is um sleep medication. So I mean I don't know much about this at all, but in my thinking is when I've had problems with sleeping and things like that, that I've never done it, but there's obviously the attractiveness of like, oh, should I go get some sleep pills, sleeping pills or something? Will that help? And um I've always been like, I don't want to go down that route because to me I've always been like, what if I become too reliant, you know, like taking drugs? I need it I need to take it every night now to go to sleep. What are your thoughts on sleeping pills?

SPEAKER_04 50:37

So, yeah, that's a good question. Good topic to talking about because that's very common and it's a huge problem around the world um regarding the sleep pills. So um on the scientific way to explain, yes, uh sleep pills is good if you need for a short time, done. That's it, nothing else. If it's really, I guess if someone's suffering from like insomnia or some or some chronic insomnia, no, like trauma or yeah, there is a lot of any conditions you can combine, and then you it's important to add the sleep pills to make you or uh sleep better or have a sleep, or even though to fall sleep, for example. Uh I have a I have experience with my partner uh before before before no, it was after for between and after COVID-19, she's had a burnout, and then she started with uh feeling very unwell, and then uh in the beginning we thought it was my gram. So the the same feelings as my gram is the same female as a heart attack. So you have been in the hospital by the time like 12 times because she said I have a heart attack, so the same like the same sensations like arms, the face, how she's speaking, all uh laziness. Uh so when when we understood what's going on, was uh one uh doctor by the time we used to live in Hawks Bay, so she he was uh a specialist in uh sleep specialist, and then he said, No, no, uh, we need to put you on the lab to see how it's going on and then see your brain works and there is any problems on your uh sleep part and or whatever it's going on. It's not just a simple situation. Uh but yeah, why I'm saying that because at the beginning the GP say no, you have a sleep, you need to sleep spill, you need to sleep. And then she says, No, I am sleeping. It's not the sleeping problem.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

The problem is the migraine is not.

SPEAKER_04 52:34

Yeah, like it's the sensations I have, the the the noise I'm feeling, you know, like the the the stressful approach. I I I I uh can see myself in some stage of the day, or the um uh the feelings when uh I'm still uh stress, like you know, I cannot control more, for example, like very strange conversation between her and the GP. Because the GP tries to engage the way is a simple question, simple answer. You know, like I know you have you need to sleep. That's you that's why you're not uh feeling much better, because you're not sleeping with stress, you might be have burnout, blah blah blah. And then she's and then she asked me, What do you think? I say no. So my answer for her is no, not just because I know more than the GP because I don't know, but my answer was no, it's not clear for us. So why you should take sleep pills if it's not clear for us that's the problem is sleep. And even though if the sleep the problem, what's is is is getting sleep like is a like you can sleep, why you cannot sleep? There is any problems, like is a mental health problem, is a metabolic conditions, is uh any another um stressful situation on your life because when you put the sleep pills on this field, there is a specific reason to make you fall asleep. Otherwise, there is no reason. But if you not treat the problems or the problem, it doesn't matter if you take the medication because you cannot sleep every single day. So you take the medication longer, and that's you can see nowadays a lot of people using the medication for 10, 15, 20 years, you know, and then that's wrong. So when she did the sleep study, the doctor said no, yes, you need sleep, the pills. Why? Because you are on the burnout situation, and then it's hard to define burnout because there is a lot of pressure on your brain. So usually people think the burnout is because I'm not stopped to working, I'm gonna stop to thinking. No, that is that is that is metabolic problems, hormones problems as well, and stressful problems as well. Um, but yeah, the the the main the main uh concern was a burnout. And then he said, No, I will uh prescribe a sleep pill for you for two months, not just because I want to get any sleep, just because I wanted to shut down your brain when you fall asleep. So it's a different approach, you see, like not just because she wants to sleep, just because when she goes to sleep, he shut down the brain with the medication. When I say shut down means like there is no way the brain still thinking works when she's sleeping, because sometimes happens in the burnout in some stage. She is sleeping, but the brain keeping works. Yeah, and then that's normal, of course, because they have to, but they not follow the the the sleep stage, for example. No, no ramp phase, ramp phase, no ramp phase, rape ramp phase, or the cycle of you are sleeping. Uh so she took for two months and it worked very well for her.

SPEAKER_02 55:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 55:46

All right. But as I as I mentioned here, that is that is the pathway that is why, when, what uh why, when, why, when means why I take when I finish. Why I take when I finish. Um, because nowadays you see a lot of patients come and say, Okay, I went to the doctor, I'm stressed. So what's going on? I don't know, my life is boring. So what they did is sleep pills. And now I'm in trouble because now my memory is not working, my my body doesn't uh perform so much better. No, I'm feeling stressful during the day. I mean I'm having like no people say after COVID-19 you have a brain fog. That's not a very common term to say that you you are in trouble because you're not sleeping, you don't have a quality of sleep, for example. So, yeah, so my thoughts about sleepy peel, yes, it's important, but you need to figure out why and way. Why you are taken and when you finish.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

What is actually the problem? Yes, and if you and it if it's yeah, and this kind of goes into my next point about it as um, you know, a bit more of like a general perspective is I feel this is my thinking, is people want like a quick fix, you know? Whereas these things take time. You gotta have have like um someone analyze it, it's gotta maybe have a few, maybe like a month or longer to look at how you sleep, how you behave. But most of us are just like nuts, give me the pill so I can just be done with it. Um and that kind of goes into my next thing is also like lifestyle. So um I wanted to also talk to you about like, you know, we talk about 10,000 steps throughout the day, maybe taking the nap, you know, careful of the caffeine. Because a lot of this is also down to people's lifestyle, and um that's from you know, I'm not a doctor or any specialist, but just in general, for me, I noticed that uh I for for me I need to have at least an hour or so of really intense exercise every day. If I don't do that, my sleep will be impacted. Yes, I just know that, and I don't know if that's for everybody, but for me it is. So I I guess it's like trying to find the things for my lifestyle to make sure I do get that better sleep of some way, because um I think it I'd I I I don't know from from my experience, I'd I a lot of things were down to like lifestyle, and also one I used to work in the event industry, that completely fucked it up. Oh my god, that's the one of the worst industries to work in to um have good sleep, but um yeah, for a lot of it was down to lifestyle, and I kind of want to uh talk to you as well about like fitness for for people. Do you find with people who come in with sleep issues, maybe not all of them, but do some like they don't do any physical activity?

SPEAKER_04 58:20

Yes, definitely, yeah. So I think these two topics is is very important, and again, like on generally speaking, uh you have to be careful because uh no we, but when people understanding or looking for help or looking after themselves. Remember, we are we was designed to move. You were designed to keep moving, you were designed for socialized, you were designed to be uh on uh on the nature, you know, grounding, you know, um hinting. So survive, you know, that's who you are, that's why you you deliver dopamine on your brain, you know to make you survive on the environment, you know, not just for uh like pornography or Instagram or these kind of things, you know. It's stimulation from especially from digital means so like you know, people looking for this kind of stimulation, you know, and then they forgot how they they can see themselves on the way that okay, you can do that much better if you go to the gym or if you go and you know walk 30 minutes per day, you know, or uh if you I don't know, just uh clean your house, for example. It's not exercise, but you move in yourself, you know. You are engaged with something, you know, you are engaged with performance, you know, because you know what's clean, what's not clean. Um, so yeah, I think uh most of problems between these approaches exercise, and most people think they they have to do like an hour and a half, or they have to go to the gym every single day, or they have to go to doing a high-intensive exercise. No, if you're walking 30 days per day, 30 minutes per day, it's okay, it's enough. It's not the best, but could be enough for your body to keep moving and understanding that's important. But of course, if you can walk 45 minutes, or if you can walk uh, for example, uh 50 minutes and and run 15 minutes, wow, you see the improvement on your cardiovascular system, your neural system. You you see how you sleep better next night, you see how your performance better a week later, you know. That is thousands and thousands of papers prove that this works, especially uh with, for example, uh elders, they are very strange life, and then they if they're doing 15 minutes walking, that they're doing 10 minutes walking, they have such much improvement on the diabetes and cardiovascular issues, um uh hormones as well. Because why they performance a little bit better, they sleep much better as well. Um, and then for example, if you are in the beginning, so I say, Ah Bruno, I'm starting exercising after I heard you on the on the squat. Um podcast, yeah. Okay, so I like the podcast. So what I what I should do, what I can do, like you know, you you can do, for example, uh one one by one, like so. You run one minute and walk one minute, make it ten minutes, right? You'll be 20 minutes. You see the difference when you're sleeping, you see the difference next day. Okay, if you're doing for a week, come back to me, tell me if it doesn't work because uh 99.9% sure it will work for you. It's gonna work, you know. So that's the that's the change. When you do this more changes, on your performance, on your daily base, that's become your lifestyle. So lifestyle is very important for us because lifestyle is is is a performance the way you you teach your body how things have to work. Remember when I say for you guys, my routine 6 a.m. shower, cold shower, work. Or okay, as the same at the gym, guys. I'll be honest, I don't go to the gym every single day, and I hate to go to the gym. I hate gym. So why? Nowadays, more than those before, because nowadays in the gym, everyone using these disgusting phones, they not talk to each other, they not uh what they not look at each other, you know, like it's just like zoom bees in the gym. Yeah, I'm not this like guy. I want to talk, you know, I want to engage with people, it's socializing, you know. You can of course I'm not here to talk, and then it's okay, you know, like you're doing your scotch, whatever you're doing, I mean talking to no no, but between the exercise, hey, how's it going, Scotch? Oh good, how's your training? Ah, Bruno, today I put five kilos. Can you help me? Oh, for sure, let's go, let's do it. No, no, no, put six kilos because now I'm here to help.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Push each other.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:43

Change, you know, and that you can see, for example, when you train a jiu-jitsu, you know, like you are white belt, when you train to the black belts, they always push you for, you know. So lifestyle is the same. As soon as you're doing exercise, you change your lifestyle, you become better, you improve your life, improve your mental health, you improve your all your body systems as well. So it's not doing every single day if you don't want, but if you're doing like every single day, for example, you see the better improvements on your life. So it's not something you have to run uh a marathon every day. A marathon, for example, you know. But if you if you want to challenge yourself, man, you'll be great doing that. You know, challenge yourself to be better, you know. Like, ah Bruno don't want to stop to drink. Okay, you can keep drinking, but if you drink like five bottles of um beer, put a challenge. So if I'm drinking this five bottle, I on the next day or during the weekend, I'm around 50 minutes. You know, so just challenge your brain because your brain likes challenges.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

You know, they like to be in challenges, it likes it likes the challenge completed. Yes, it doesn't like it before it. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:54

You know, the whole body's like, no, it doesn't, yeah. No, and and you was designing for that. So you can see a lot of papers, even though you listen in another podcast, you see the people now saying the specialist or the neuroscience say you have to change our bodies, and the lifestyle is a challenge, you know. Like, for example, I finish the podcast here with Scott today, and I probably go to the gym to run maybe 15 minutes, and then another thing I do as well, uh sauna. I love sauna.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:23

Yeah, so you're doing both, you're doing like the cold and you're doing the hot. Yeah, so you're doing both, and how this is a little bit different. I mean, it probably helps with I know it will have some effects with sleep, but for you, what have been the benefits of the the you know the cold shower to then the sauna?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:38

Uh so man, cold shower make you wake up, so it's a challenge for your brain or like you improve your your make decision.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:45

I I hate it, I've tried it, it's hard, it's so hard. I want to try. Yeah, but I used to do it after my workouts, but um I don't know if this is true, but I was reading something about it. It's sort of not good to do it after a workout straight away with like muscle, but maybe that's just a conspiracy.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:02

Yeah, well, like it's not for everyone, definitely. Okay, so you have to be careful now. Sometimes uh sometimes people feel uncomfortable. Yeah, isn't it uncomfortable? But there is paper as well explain that in some stations, in some ways, you could be become it they call you become more um inflammated about the cold shower, of course. Uh so means what do you mean you become more inflammated? That means if you after, for example, Shauna, you are like 108 uh Fahrenheit degrees, okay? And then you have the cold shower. Your body are in very, very high level of working, okay. Make your the temperature down, make you breathing better, your cardiovascular system. So you already stress environment. Your body already is very stressful uh um performance. When you go to the cold shower, you will stress more as well. So there are people who become sick after they're doing that. So it's not for everyone. Bruno, how can I know that? Simple. If you're doing sauna for 10 minutes, go and then stay in the shower for a minute. And then see how you're thinking. If you're not feeling comfortable, you feel like nah it's not for me. You maybe it's not for you. Okay, but it's hard to explain how it does work for anyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:17

It's hard though because it is uncomfortable. I did the cold showers for a bit. I tried to do two minutes. That was what that was what I did for a while. And I I did really enjoy it. Um I should get back into it. But yeah, I tried the sauna as well, and I would like to go more. I've just been lazy to go. But that's something I'd have noticed at the end, like for my body, I'm just like it really afterwards. I feel like, yeah, like I I can I feel more comfortable. I feel like I've gotten, you know, kind of especially after like a workout, I get out all the toxins. Sort of feels like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:48

Yeah, so yeah, so sound it's so important. Cold showering. Yeah, so cold shower in the morning, yeah, decision making, you become more alert, you know, you sh you drop your uh your um cardiovascular uh system means like you know, you become more relaxed and you know you you deliver more dopamine as well because your body try to engage with this kind of challenge as well. Um so there is there is some protocols, you guys can uh have a look in the internet. There is a lot of protocol to understand what's the best approach, but usually my protocol is uh normal show in the morning. So there is no time, it's a normal shower. So I wash my hair, wash my body, done in cold shower. But uh on like getting the sauna is a different protocol. So my protocol on the sauna works like that. So I go to the sauna, 15 minutes, cold uh sorry, cold shower, normal, like three, four minutes, go to the sauna, 15 minutes, cold shower, 15 minutes, cold shower.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

Wow. All right, so uh that's like an hour, an hour?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:50

An hour, yes. Um, so I have been doing that for a long time. Um it helps me many, many things. Uh but the the most important thing I can I can uh have the perception on my daily basis on my life is I become more strongest for human um for um humanity. Um like um I have been, I don't know, my last time I was sick maybe was 2021 when I got the COVID-19.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:20

So things that I don't remember to be sick. Yeah, uh even though when I have a COVID-19 it was only two days, because things that I have been done like sauna for a long time as well. Um yeah, it's funny, I have I haven't did sound in Brazil longer, because not a common sound in Brazil. As soon as I moved to New Zealand and then I start to work here, and then I engage with some like friends, and then sound is very common here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:48

So I think it depends on the group. Yeah, you're around a lot of people in the medical field, so it probably is because um yeah, in my gym, a lot of guys I know that they they sauna is a big part of recovery, so it's very popular. And I've been like, I know I should go. I think it's just getting too hot. There was something for me like with getting like cold, I preferred it. There's something about like sauna getting really hot, and I know it's uncomfortable, but I've kind of been in the thinking at the moment with um having a bit more like of those little adversary moments in my in my day.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

Same with like doing like um a little bit of the BJJ and stuff, like it's very uncomfortable, but afterwards I feel amazing. Yeah, exactly. And sauna's like that as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:28

For who listening to us, you can you can do like you know, five minutes and get out, and then next day six minutes and get out, and next day seven minutes and get out. But try to do that, build it up on the wall, on the on the roll, you know, every single day, increase one minute. Um and yeah, but if you don't if you don't like a cold shower, you don't have to have cold shower after sauna. You know, it's something that you you you you can you can uh do or you can find the easiest way for you. I like I like the challenge. Uh so I'm a very challenge guy, so that's why I like to do. But that's cool. If you have if you ask me if I'm happy, uh I might be happy with sauna in cold shower rather than wake up and have a cold shower.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

I see. So you prefer the sauna to cold shower.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

Um cold shower straight away is pretty that's pretty tough.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:20

Yeah, and then the the reason I doing that is because again, I'm I'm very challenged. So uh me and my wife, you were you were very competitive with each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:29

I see.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:30

So you know I never gave up for her.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:34

I'm gonna win. I'm gonna win.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:35

You know, uh, but in a good way as a as a couple, uh yeah, it helps a lot your relationship, you know, engage, you know, like it's good to have a partner and then someone can train, you know, like I don't like run, she loves runs. So if she goes to run, I don't go for run. When you go somewhere else, she runs and I'm walking. You know, I love surfing. She doesn't like much, but she goes with me and then like she runs and have to have a cold shower. So, you know, like as as a social, you know, you have to to find this way, you know, as a couple. So challenge yourself, you know, for example, as you're doing uh BGG, uh that's next challenge. I I wanted to introduce her to do the BGG, not just for for understanding about the philosophy as BGG, but uh self-protecting as well, you know, nowadays it's important.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:22

Yeah, well the thing is um like with jujitsu is like if you're um and like with I think it's even more important for females because it's not a str it's not really a strength-based martial art. If you've got the technique and uh if a lady went up against someone who's not trained in it like a male, they can they can tr choke them out or you know harm them, you know, they can defend themselves. So it's um very effective in that way, which I think is yeah, very, very, very important. But yeah, it's definitely been one of those sports for me where I've found incredible very challenging. It really push me because it's it's a lot to learn. Yes, it's very like especially after the whole day of work and it's busy and your life or whatever, and you come along and you and you have to learn the most technical thing ever. And I just I think that I'm getting better slowly bit by bit, but I'm it was for a while I was like, What is what is this?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:12

Yeah, and this is so complicated, exactly, and then that's that's good that's good um thought you mentioned it here because that's engaged you on the questions about lifestyle, and then you see later, later, later how you change your lifestyle as become a BGG, and then how does this change who you are as a as a as a person, not about as a human being, but about to sleep, man. You are so mentally and and physically tired, yeah, there is no way you can sleep better. You'll sleep great, you know, like that's very true. So like that that's why it's important you you you looking after yourself, you understand lifestyle is a game changer. Like it's not big things, like small things, but try to to use your lifestyle to help you to move forward for your your your your goals or what you want it to be in the future, you know. So um yeah, I think lifestyle is it's so important for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

Having a bit of that adversity in life. Yeah. I think that's I think that maybe with I know that a lot of a lot of people have like different things they put in their life for the adversity, but because we live in such a life of convenience, that probably gets missed a lot. And I think that's something in the modern era. A lot of people I think some people, some of my friends, people I know have to kind of grapple with that. It's like, oh, but I don't I can just sit on my computer, game, or I can just sit at home, you know, order food, Uber Eats, or I can everything's convenient. There's no adversity in it. And it's like we now almost have to volunteer to have adversity.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

It's very strange because for I mean, obviously in the in New Zealand and a lot of like first world, we we our life is you know it's quite convenient. You know, we don't we don't have lots of adverse things, but adverse things make life worth living. So it's very yeah, kind of strange, isn't it? Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:01

But it's important, yeah. People have to understand it's important, even though you like as you mentioned, you game or whatever, challenge yourself, you know, like okay, I'm gaming for a like two or three hours after you go for a walk for 30 minutes at two at least, you know, or just I don't know, do some there is so many things you can do here in New Zealand outside, you know. You can you can hunting, you can diving, you can bike, you can doing kite, surfing. Man, that is so many outdoor sports. So, you know, just find your style and get away.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:33

Find find find what you enjoy. Because then with exercise won't be a chore. Because I think that's the other thing is people like, oh, it's a chore. Yeah, you gotta try and change that thinking, you know. Uh well, that's what I think anyway. Just like to try and have exercise being more of a priority of like, oh no, I enjoy this, like I like to go and do this activity, you know, socialize. If it's a team sport, I got yeah, some bit of football or um yeah, whatever it may be. But that's something else you've got to kind of I don't know. Do you do you talk to your patients about those kind of things? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:04

So when my patients come to see me and then they they they come to in uh in decide because uh on all my my approach, you have to decide to do know myself. So you decide. If you don't decide, sorry, no, like it doesn't matter for me. So you have to decide to engage to follow the protocol. The first protocol is is you have like, for example, answer around 65 questions, and then like 50% of the questions is make you understand that you are the power to change, I mean fix your problem, but you are in the power, you are on the You're the one who's gonna fix it, yeah. And then when you sign up the the protocol, that is the phrase you say, like you are in charge to change your life. It's you, no me. I'm not sleepy with you, I'm not your wife, I'm not your husband, uh, I'm not your mom, I'm not no you. So you I can give you the tools, and then you run. That's it. You know, don't look back because I'm not here anymore. And you against you now, you know, because that's sleep, you know, sleep is is something that it's it's like a ballet, you know. You have to train every single day to get better. And it's sometimes you lose uh uh one training, you lost everything. Yeah, right? Because if you're not sleep well today, you're not you're not getting better tomorrow, you're not getting tomorrow, because there is no way to to improve or or or I mean what I'm trying to say if if you have a bad night, uh bad night sleep tonight, tomorrow you cannot do something to recover this last night. It was done. You lost. So that's the way uh people sometimes um missing uh the questions as I ask why sleep matters. Because you know, if you are on the roll for seven days and then you're not sleep well for one day, that's okay, two days, that's okay. Three days, uh oh, red flag, you are in trouble. Yeah, all right. So and that's most people's comments was like, yes, more people say, Well, what doesn't matter? I don't care, what doesn't change. You know, like I can have coffee tomorrow, I can have like uh and drink, you know, I can have other things to make me feel happy or me feel more awake, for example. But for your body, for your systems, that sleep is so important, you know. So for my patients, that they have to understand that the you prioritize your lifestyle, you prioritize you know your environment as well. Your family need to understand you are suffering for sleep problems, so they have to help you to make this work, you know, because not you against the family means like for example, even everyone has to have a schedule for sleep, right? So who's getting bed first? The kids, okay. So 6 p.m. kids shower, 7 p.m. dinner, 8 p.m. bed. Later on, who have to wake up early? It's me or my partner, myself, so I go early to bed, and then she's the last one. Things like that, you know. Lights, okay. The lights work for us, or it's too bright or not. Can do some adjustment, you know. There is a blind on the windows, no, so maybe make it better. No, okay. I I cannot use uh, like for example, as myself, I can't use uh eye mask.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:25

Can't use it.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:25

Nah, don't touch my face, don't touch my ears.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:29

I can't. Well, there goes my sales pitch.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:32

My wife, she loves.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

Oh, yeah, cool, cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:34

She she uses it every single night, no. So but I have to use it sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:42

Because you need to block out the light, yeah, it's too distracting.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:45

You know, so that's the challenge I don't like, but I have to accept that. Let's work in this way. Yeah, you know. Uh another example, um some like I like to take um some um read before I can sleep, for example. You know, uh my wife, she likes uh, for example, to have um chamomayo tea before sleep. Okay, but what you have been uh facing some patients sometimes is um they they don't know much about these things they try to do without any um um knowledge about knowledge about and then for example uh I have some some patients, especially um woman's they take the tea before they're getting sleep, and then they awake like 3-4 am to the day.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:35

Yeah, because there's caffeine in the tea.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:37

Yes. Right? So then they get and go to the bed, so they awake in the most important phase at random. When they should be sleeping, yeah. Yeah, so okay, so take the tea an hour before you getting sleep, right? So no caffeine and no caffeine tea, yeah. Yes, uh and yeah, so yeah, in my approach, you know, I'm very holistic approach. So I wanted to know everything about your life.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:01

Yeah, your whole lifestyle.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:02

Your whole lifestyle as well, you know, and then understand if there is any other issues. And then uh I'd love to work as well as a multi-center approach. So the patients in the middle, and I have myself, I have the sleep physiologist, I have the sleep specialist, I have all other professionals to help these patients work sleep better if they need, for example. Uh but yeah, and and and the most important message for the patients when they finish my consultation is is you are in the power now. It's 90% it's your power, 10% it's myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:41

You give the tools, you give the education, you give the knowledge, but you guys like the famous saying, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. That's literally what you're doing, it's what your job is. That's like anything, I suppose, really, with humans.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:54

As human human beings, yeah, as it's quite, yeah, definitely. And then uh again, like life is not easy, guys. You know, like it's a challenge every single day. And you you you try to sleep very well every single night, but there are nights you can, and that's okay, you know. But if you are on the track, that's most important, you know, like being the track, you know, and try to sleep much better every single day. Or as I use it with my patients and myself, I want it to be one percent better every single day. That's it. 1%, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:22

1%.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:23

Yeah. Otherwise, you push too much yourself. Yeah, it'd have web watch, you have uh uh swing, you have a web whoopy, you know, like you put something under your bed, and then say, like, right. So, and what's the matter? How you you you engage, how you use this data to change your life because you have all those information, but you still doing the same lifestyle, the same habits become your the same behavior. So remember, as a human being, you have habits and behavior. To change your habits, you improve your behavior, and it's a cycle, right? So you gotta be always changing your habits. Yes. So to change that, it's every single day 1% better.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:06

I think um something else I wanted to briefly touch on was um um sleep environment. Um, because that's also something that I think people probably know this, it's very common sense, but like what is your sleep environment? Like, what is your bed like? What is it, how much light's in your room, how much sound is there? Yeah, you know, all those little things uh or like sleep hygiene, you know, like um clean room, you know, so lots of dust everywhere, like that's also gonna affect your sleep, right? So that's kind of um did you talk to people about that as well? Sleep environment being being something big?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:40

Yeah, so we on our approach, we we treat people in in like three four um situations. One situation is the patient problem, the second situation is the patient environment, the third situation is the patient lifestyle, and uh four, for example, how to engage all these steps together to make it work properly, workflow. So I have the brainstorm. So I put the TV here, the patients come in and look, okay, that's you, that's you, that's you, that's you. That's environment, environment, environment, environment. That's how you should be, how you should be, how you should be. Means, for example, room. So uh the room have to be clean, of course, have to be uh on the temperature between 19 and 21 degrees, no more than that. Um so um, for example, uh when I moved to New Zealand, we we have like a king bed mattress, and then it was uh the size was okay, but my style to sleep and the way I like to sleep was was not enough for me, my partner. And then she liked to to embrace some pillows or like the the um they call snack pillow, so it's look like a snack, but you embrace okay snake sort, no snack, snake pillow, snake pillow, okay. So like it's kind of very short space to to move. So you things as that you decide to buy a um California size, so it's two square, so it's huge, like no? So this is change our sleep because I have more space, I can move myself as well, make it so yeah, the size, the matrix you're sleeping is is is important as well. So you not get up your partner when you go to the toilet or any reason when you move yourself, for example. How many years you have the mattress? How many years you have your pillow? Pillow, no more than two years. Matters a matter, um two years, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:42

Um the mattress no more than five years. Wow. So you have the warrant for ten years, okay? But depending on the quality, all right. So that's gonna change as well. Um that the textures of your pyjamas as well, it's important, all right. Why? Very simple information. When you get in sleep after eight o'clock, at least between six and seven and eight p.m., you drop your body starts to drop melatonin to get in sleep. When you go to sleep around 10 o'clock, usually generally speaking, 10:30, your body has to drop the your body temperature and at least one thing one degree or two, one and a half degree. Why? So you can get in deep sleep. If your environment is not um the room is not the temperature good, for example, it's too hot or too cold, or your body is too hot or too cold, for example, you you take a while to get in deep sleep. And then maybe sometimes people say I have insomnia. How do you know? Ah, because I can get in full sleep quickly. Okay, but have you been thinking about your body temperature or the texture of your pajamas or the sheets you're using, for example? You have to figure out all those things because you cannot use in the same as in the winter in New Zealand summer. You know, even though if you live in the house, you don't have air con or you know it's something's too hot here, for example. So uh the second thing is ventilation. So you have to have ventilation as well. Um, there is a lot of paper outside proven show that if you have high CO2, you're having trouble to sleep. And then so you know, you wake up in the New Zealand, you see you drive in the walls in case a lot of houses, like very humid windows. Man, that windows means show me that the room have been closed for more than six, seven, eight hours. So that's why getting you know moisturized in the windows. So the temperature is important, art circulation is important, the the pyjamas, how you the the texture of your sheets as well, it's important. I don't have any light, um brightening lights in my house. It's always yellow four hertz as well. Uh only outside. Inside, yellow four hertz. Uh and I only turn on before getting sleep. Or of course, when getting darkness and need to watch to to see before walking, for example. Um what else? Yeah, I think that's the most common I uh uh that's the knowledge I give for my patients, they understanding they they can change these things as well, especially for 45 plus um uh woman, and uh they have like a menopause working in a very challenging situation. I don't know, they have very hot nights sometimes, and you know, so um they're facing a little bit of issue because the the the husband is feeling cold and then she's feeling hot, and then she wanted to bring all things outside in kind of you know situation that's disturbed the sleep, for example. Um so yeah, I think as much as you understand how you are behaving and then make your your environment cooler, clean, darkness, um Um for example when I have to study or I have to do some work uh after 6 pm, I always using uh red light on my room.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:12

Make it more comfortable and then give more uh relaxed uh thoughts, for example. You can play with blue or yellow as well. You can buy the some um um how they call it as the um what's the name?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:28

Yeah, for like a mic's nest, a mic's nest.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:31

Yes, with the with the lights. Ah yes, yeah. Um you can find anywhere, it's it's easy to find. So usually I yeah, so well for example, uh when I have like a very busy week and Friday, sometimes I'm challenged to sleep. So I just turn these red lights and start to read a little bit, a little bit to make it more calm and like stop to thinking about the whole week. Uh, you know, especially when you you are an entrepreneur or a businessman, you know, Fridays always the day you just figure out okay, the week has finished, how was blah blah blah. Um but yeah, I think the environment is very important, even though not just for the sleep, but where you work, yeah, where you work as well. Yeah, my on the clinic uh my clinic, like you have the lights shun down until 2 p.m. Only after 2 p.m. you turn on the lights.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:22

Wow. Yes. Oh even in winter.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:25

Even in winter. Yeah. This these uh normal lights from the offices, like the floor flourish flourish something, I don't name the terms, is that the oars for a human being for the eyes in the the hot as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:41

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:42

So sometimes you see that some employees stressful.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:46

It's because of the lights that they've got in the building, but they're probably cheap. So yeah. So that'll be why they're there. Yes. Yeah, oh wow, so many different things. Yeah, it really is. Um something else was um with sleep environment um is also having the bedroom reserved for sleep. Is that something else? Yeah, that's it's cool. Sleep in sex. Yeah, that's it, that's it, right? Yeah, because um I think people as well, especially if you're like flooding situation or maybe shared housing, like you know, that's the only place you can get privacy, so your room becomes everything, like if that's the office, that's the you know, whatever. So trying to associate your brain that when you're in your bedroom, you're just there to sleep. Yeah, you're not there, but you know, that's also kind of a luxury, I suppose. But ideally, you want to work towards having your bedroom only to sleep, like you're not in there for anything else.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:33

Yes, I have I have a lot of patients, they are flatten as well. And the my my knowledge is like, you know, that's the mattress using for pilates, so putting that in the floor and sit for read a book, sit there for work, if you don't have space, of course, you know. Uh but yeah, try to not get in the bed for the sleep or sex. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:54

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:54

Nothing else. Yeah. So you know, like if you if you don't have so much space, you know, you can buy a chair, whatever. No, you can do many stuff to not use in your bed for anything else. Um, but yeah, as soon as you get in the bed, uh your brain understands it's sleep time. So that's getting worse for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:12

Sleep environment, yeah. Yeah, um, before we go, I wanted to quickly ask you, is there any like um strange sleep myths you've been presented with that are just like complete rubbish? They've just been have people have come to you like, oh uh, I don't know, like I I find if I um you know exercise right before I sleep, it's a good idea, or I don't know, because that's a I know that's not a good thing to do. Yeah, well any sleep myths that you can debunk?

SPEAKER_04 1:31:38

Interesting questions. Uh well on top of my head, uh I don't remember anyone, but the common the most common uh behavior people understanding about sleep is that they can they can they can manage their sleep nowadays. They think that they they can uh play with your sleep times.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:01

You can play with your hours, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:02

You know, like uh okay um like I I can like smoke marijuana for getting to sleep. I can drink alcohol alcohol to get in deep sleep. I can make sex to get in deep sleep.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:15

I can alcohol's that's like a that's a common one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:32:18

Yeah, that's the worst one. Yeah, um I I said marijuana, but you the proper way to say is THC or cannabidiol. Yeah, there is a lot of papers come up to showing some some studies, no, like yeah, there is good data to improve some stage of your sleep. Depends on the reason and and why you are looking for recreation, rubbish, you just destroy your brain, destroy your life. There is no such information showing that cannabis jaw or THC is good for your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:55

It's gonna help your life.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:56

Yeah, nah. And the alcohol, it's the I think alcohol that's the answer that you question me. That's the alcohol, you know, like especially for a 56 plus. Uh in New Zealand, it's very common.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:08

Yeah, we have we have a very bad relationship with alcohol.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:11

Yeah, very bad for no, like in people don't drink much. It's not about continuity, it's about the the drink, you know, it's about the shot. Doesn't matter how much it's that's the the the behavior to have like a glass of wine before I sleep, or a glass of wine with my meals. Uh that is no problem to have a wine if you have a meals. Okay, that's okay. They should very be clear here. The problem is you you're looking for alcohol to get in sleep, to fall sleep. That's the problem. As a sleep assistant, yeah, yeah, because alcohol is a sedative, so they just shut down your brain as a as a as um as a sleep pill, for example.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:48

It works in a similar way.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:49

Yes, exactly, Scott. And then the worst scenario is Scotch here in New Zealand, especially uh that's have been working for uh more times uh with uh more elders. Um in some situations uh there are people saying that it's better to have a glass of wine than take a pill for sleep, sleepy pills, and that that's another bullshit and worse speech or phrase people should never say. There is no such difference between sleepy pills and alcohol if you're looking for just for a full sleep, even though you have no knowledge or no uh doctor to explain or to help you to getting these answers. So if you have a problem to sleep, no, see a doctor, go your GPE, find a sleep specialist, but doesn't take this approach or behavior because people do, because it's worse. You know, you're not doing nothing good. And nowadays you can see more data and then more studies to prove that dementia in Parkinson become with this kind of behavior: lack of sleep, alcohol, no exercise, no lifestyle, for example, you know, no socialist too much blue light, too much blue lights, you know, too much um um means like a lack of um environments that challenge yourself, you know, everything as you mentioned, for example, Uber, Uber Eats, you know, uh OnlyFans, you know, TikTok, yeah, you know, like it's not helpful, and then you say this is uh is only for adults. I have elders in this situation, you know, uh uh with problems with pornography and things like that, you know. So and yeah, they come to say, I have this problem to get into sleep, and then when you're going deep, deep and deep and deep, you know, the truth come up.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:44

Yeah, the lifestyle comes out, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:46

Yes, and I think uh more and more the um the GPs in New Zealand, for example, as around the world become aware about that and they make more deep questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:58

You know, so it'll be linked to lifestyle or linked to something deeper, like you said.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:02

Okay, why are you asking me for pills? Why are you asking me, no, like to to prescribe you the cannabis?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:09

Yeah, I think in New Zealand, I mean there probably is a little bit of that, but I think in comparison to maybe somewhere like the United States, I think we're better at that. Yeah, I don't think we're just like, oh, here's the pill. I think there's a few more, like, well, do you need it? Yes, yes. Because the question is important because yeah, I I don't know in yeah, I mean that's another whole discussion, isn't it? But like the the um going to the doctor to find out what's wrong with you or going to the to the the doctor to get the drugs.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:37

That's different thinking. But I don't think in New Zealand that's too common. But um I know in the States, like I've been there and I knew people who did that. Yeah, and I was like, that's crazy. To me, that's crazy. But um, but yeah, that's uh yeah, that's another whole thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:53

Oh thanks Bruno for taking the time. It's been such a wow, yeah. The big my takeaway today was all that the AI and the Samsung technology and also the lights. I know about it, but like I don't know, like yeah, like the yeah, getting the right bulbs and all that. Yeah, that's important. Yeah, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:09

Thank you for having me, Squatch. I'm a pleasure to be here and talking about sleep and uh talking about all those topics. It's amazing. Uh I'm very keen and happy to share all my knowledge and information with uh all everyone uh listening to the podcast as well. And um, yeah, the message for for everyone listening is like no, try to use the technology now to help you and guide you on your lifestyle and change some small things in your life. Um yeah, have a look on your environments and understand how lights can change a lot of things, especially because that's the that's the way you see the world, you know, incredible or not, that's the way your body as well interpreted the your environment. So that's why I mentioned before get up, looking outside for 15 minutes, it's very important. Um understand that exercise is very important for everything in your life, you know, even though small or biggest um exercise you are doing, you know, or the endurance or whatever you are doing, keep doing as well. Um and yeah, so if you need help, please know um find us in any another uh channel as well. But um, yeah, understanding why sleep matters and why you have to sleep, it's very important uh questions you have to make yourself every single day to you know change your life and be a better human being. Because probably um I I'm happy to say that between three or four people you met outside, if they are in trouble, uh sleep probably would be the first thing they never have a thinking about. So yeah, if they sleep well, they probably remove a lot of problems in their lives very quickly as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:57

So yeah. Amazing. Well, thanks so much for your time. And um, yeah, I think everyone would have gone a lot out of this. I know I got heaps out of it. So yeah, thank you so much, and um, yeah, all the best with your work.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:07

Okay, thank you so much. Thank you, everyone. Cheers until next time.