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EP #85 - Muay Thai Fighter - Michael Isaac

• Scott & Michael • Episode 85

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I had Michael ‘The Machine’ Isaac back on the podcast! A lot has happened since he was last on. His fight in Bali got cancelled, his social media was hacked, he had an unfortunate loss to a veteran after a nine-fight win streak, got the W in his most recent fight, and much more. We also dive into what it really takes to chase your dreams and how badly you have to want it to make them real.

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SPEAKER_01

Alright, let's get going, my dude. And I'm back here with the champ, Michael Isaac, the machine. What's up, brother? How we going? Fucking good, dude. Great to have you back. Yep. Been on a bit of a journey since you know what you weren't actually on here that long. Oh, sorry, you you were on here not too long ago, but a lot has happened. Yeah. It's been like a cra it's been like six months, but you'd almost think it was like a year. Pretty much, honestly, the amount of stuff that you've done. Yeah. And what your experience is. So I just want to start off like after I think after the podcast, you went had the was it Niza Fury 97? Yep. So that was so I didn't fight on that one. Oh, so I went to Bali. No, Bali was first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so let's talk about that. So you were set to fight in Bali. What was the competition? Cool. Uh it was a Niza Fury event.

SPEAKER_00

It was a Niza Fairy event. Yep. But um it was held in like uh the biggest nightclub in Indonesia, I think. So it's called Atlas Nightclub, so it was like huge venue. Um, and I was supposed to fight this Moroccan kid. Huge like international fight for me. I think he's fought on like one championship like three or four times. He's fought on RWS, which is Rajadam Nun. So he was a big step up for me in competition, but um yeah, what a what an event to do it on. But um unfortunately the fight didn't actually happen because of um visa issues? Visa issues, yeah, yeah, which was so weird. I never ran into that problem, and like every fighter I knew also hadn't ran into that problem as well.

SPEAKER_01

So weird.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So that would why like like how like like what what was their reasoning for that? Um well there's like quite a there's a Muay Thai community over there, and um apparently it wasn't ran past this like uh an elder in that community and he wasn't happy. Basically, we had to have working visas, because um yeah, Muay Thai and boxing are considered sports, whereas MMA isn't considered a sport. Um is it not recognised as a sport over there? MMA isn't, yeah, because it's quite early days. There's still ear, yeah. Yeah, but um Muay Thai and boxing a lot of history, yeah. Um like very traditional arts, so um, yeah, no, we were on the wrong visas, so the fight didn't end up happening. Yeah. Quite a weird one. Yeah. How many others? Uh myself, this young kid named Elijah. Um, we were the co uh main and co-main event. Um, and one other person, I think it was a girl. Yeah, so three people couldn't fight. Main and co-main event, like nothing could be done. Yeah, nothing could be done. Yeah. So it was the first time obviously I'd run into this problem, and Elijah as well. Elijah has like a real extensive career in Thailand. So he's had like I think he's like 14 years old. He's had like 50 professional fights. Um, which is crazy. It's like unheard of. But um, yeah, he'd never he'd never run into this problem as well. And they'd been fighting all over the world.

SPEAKER_01

So strange. Yeah. Because then you're in Bali for a bit, and then after this, if people don't know, and the people who obviously know you know this, that your account got hacked.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, literally like a day. Well, was it a day afterwards? It was lit uh two days after. So I was so I was in Bali.

SPEAKER_01

I was already lit, not in can't fight bad spirits, then your bloody Instagram gets hacked.

SPEAKER_00

So I was there, couldn't fight, gutted, but then like next day, obviously myself and my coach, my coach Ethan is the promoter of Neasy Fury, he was devastated. Like he was just like, man, like this is like horrendous. But um, we both licked our wounds, picked ourselves up, whatever, we carry on. Um, and then the next day, so I decided to stay in Bali a little bit longer because um I have Thai trainers over there, and like I just wanted to get some work in with them. Um and also you can like spend some time, like go to the beach, just hanging out, chill out a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

But um have you been to Bali before? Yeah, so I didn't know. Was that quite a long time ago? I saw a phone. You went there and did some training like 10 years ago or something?

SPEAKER_00

Uh it was probably like four years prior. Me and Nico Ah, four years ago. Yeah, we used to sort of we were gonna live there like long term, but um, we had to come back due to COVID. But um, yeah, so two days later my account got hacked. And then um I'm sitting there, I'm trying to like get it back. Um, the guy ends up WhatsApp messaging me, and like I looked up on Google, it's quite common for your account to get hacked through WhatsApp because WhatsApp is connected to your meta to your your meta and also your phone number. So they must have got my phone number, tried on all the accounts, then obviously it texts through like if you want to change your password, and they've obviously got my phone number, so they can change the password through my phone number on WhatsApp. Um so lose my accounts. Um then the guy actually ends up messaging me saying, like, oh do you want your accounts back? Give me X amount of money, and I was just like prick. I was like, bugger off, I'll just make my own, I'll make a new account. Yeah. So then I uploaded a video saying, Hey everybody, my account's been hacked. I tagged like King of the Ring, Box Vanessa, CSS. I tagged like all the like big major people that have something to do with me, and I was lucky enough, man. Like they all shared it. King of the Ring reposted it, everybody was yeah, so if I basically got all my followers back. I think I'm like 400 under what I was on.

SPEAKER_01

That's impressive though, just like already, so that's great. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Nah, so I had like heaps of like good sport from the community, which is crazy. Like heaps of people I didn't even think would repost it were reposting it, so it was awesome.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it does take so much work to build that, right?

SPEAKER_00

You've been building that for like what 10 years? Bro, I'm like posting stuff I've already posted like five years ago, just to be like, hey guys, I did this, remember?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because everyone's got memories of a goldfish. Yeah, but a good way to remind people as well. It's like, by the way, guys, done all these fights and I won all these competitions. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That sucks, dude. But it's good that you could got it back and like, yeah, it looks like things are in probably in full swing now. A little bit better.

SPEAKER_00

I had like it was cool like making it because all my friends were like, man, don't remake it, just try to get your account back. I was like, you know what? This is my chance to like rebrand and like remake. So now I do like some tutorial videos or like voiceovers and stuff on Nick.

SPEAKER_01

So what I talked to about that as well was like I noticed with some of the content you've been doing doing fight breakdowns of your fights and some of the little techniques and like even I watched a one video tip with your coach with Ethan is really cool with like the one we do in like um It's like like a cross and a hook and was that like a two-free turbul or something. And then you do it in the fight, and it's like that's really cool. I don't think I haven't I'm maybe there are channels out there who fighters who do that, but I haven't seen seen like the cut like that. There's the training straight into the fight.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. No, it's cool. I I yeah, like I said, I felt like I'd want to rebrand and and just sort of like show people like because I just you know post like the generic fight stuff, you know, like photo of you doing the pose and a photo of you with a bunch of belt twenty. Every fighter loves doing that. I still do that all the time. That's my that's my default, but um I was like, you know what, why don't I do like a little bit more, you know, like a little bit more personality, a little bit more like hey guys, this is what I'm actually like, you know? Um yeah, and it's it's been I've got like a whole bunch of new followers and a whole bunch of new people that reach out to me. So yeah, like a new audience essentially. So it's good.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well done, man. Yeah, I think it's good. I think uh you have a lot of opportunity now, especially that you've been fighting overseas, your international experience, big local experience, and obviously gonna grow more, and you're getting all these like good habits in because that's only gonna grow, you know, your brand and opportunities for future, you know, because you've got to get it while it's hot, you know. Yeah, and I know you get that, so that's that's good stuff. Something else I was um so the fight that you had, uh that unfortunately that was was that 97 knees of fury it might have been 97 with the one that you lost.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that might have been 97. That was 97.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so you've lost that unfortunately to a decision, but against an amazing opponent, one of the best. How many fights had that guy had? Like 150 or something.

SPEAKER_00

But I looked him up on Wikipedia. He had he had 170. So it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01

How could Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, I mean, well done, bro. That's a guy. I mean, how old is that guy? How old was that fella? We were the same age, same age, 27. Oh, damn. But he's fighting from the age of five or something. Like, I think that was his life. Yeah, yeah. So, man. Kudos, man. And what I love the most about how you took that was a video you put up later on that CSN videoed it, and you're just like, I'm not really that bothered about that loss. I'm actually kind of proud of it because I proved that I can hang with the best. So I'm just like, fuck yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think um, yeah, I because I was on like a nine-fight win streak or something like that. So um, I think everyone was a little bit awesome as well. Yeah, everyone was like, Oh, you know, how's he gonna take it? How's he gonna take it? And then like I just won that um Kunkuma world title, and then I'd lost it to that guy, and everyone was like, Oh, you know, how's he gonna act? And I was like, man, I I whatever, you know. Like, obviously it sucked, like losing sucks, no one likes losing, but um, yeah, I was kind of just like, man, like I could sit there, like am I gonna stop? No. Am I gonna get better? Yes. Am I gonna potentially win that title back? I was supposed to fight that guy, but there's a little bit of back and forth and a little bit of issues trying to get him back over. Um yeah, I was like, Am I gonna get another world title? Well, yeah, if I keep going on the same same way I am, then you You must have learned so much from that fight.

SPEAKER_01

I think um did well, did you? I mean, I I guess in my head, when you go to a decision, yeah, especially you know, you know, you you went the whole way, it was a big brawl, big battle. Yeah, you must have learned a lot from someone with that experience. Like, what were kind of your takeaways? And this episode is sponsored by me. Do you struggle with sleeping and particularly struggle with light and sound while sleeping? I think it's time you get the sleep that you deserve. My business Infinity Sleep specializes in sleep well-being products to enhance your sleep quality. I've been using sleep masks and airplugs for the past three years to help improve my sleep, and I'm so stoked to finally have ones that have been created for my own sleeping needs. If you would like to learn more about my business Infinity Sleep, please visit our website www.infinitysleep.co.nz. By making a purchase, you are directly not only supporting a local Yiwi business, but also this podcast. Use the promo code only scott15% and receive 15% off your first order. Go to www.infinitysleep.co dot nz to get the sleep that you deserve.

SPEAKER_00

I definitely learned that um how to sort of play the game a bit, you know, like that guy was like little things that I was doing that obviously like they knew how I fought, like they knew I was kind of big hands and just a real strong right hand, and that's you know, if I landed on the chin, I'm gonna nine times out of ten put someone down. Um, but I didn't put him down. I caught him with a big right hand and he just kind of ate it. He was that rod tang, essentially.

SPEAKER_01

But I'm yeah, I um that's also kind of like that can be a bit psychologically like, oh, alright. Yeah, we're gonna have to go a bit harder on this one.

SPEAKER_00

I basically learned like you can't just, you know, like stay the same. Like I had the same game plan that I had for the other guy, but I was like, well, it only worked for the other guy because that those were the tools I had to bring to that fight, you know, everybody's different. So I had a um there's like an interview with one of my friends, um, Sammy Bielan, um, I think that's how you say his last name. But um he fights as well. They were basically interviewing him, asking what his game plan was for a fight. And he said, I'll just see what the fight tells me to bring. And I kind of thought, and he doesn't speak very good English, or he speaks English, but like it's kind of broken English, like yeah, but um I'll see what the fight tells me to bring, and I was like, that's a great way to approach every fight, you know. I'll just see what it tells me to bring. Like I approached that guy, Sam Nang was his um name, um, and I was just like, Oh, I'm gonna use my hands and you know, set up a you know, four-punch combination, blah blah blah blah. But I was like, I forget about all these other weapons, you know, I forget about my push kick and my my kicks, I have a really good right kick, forget about my switch kicks, I forget about you know going southboard or you know, just sort of changing the tempo. I was kind of doing the same thing, and that's how he was able to capitalise on me.

SPEAKER_01

So uh do you reckon he had studied you?

SPEAKER_00

I I d well the funny thing is about Cambodia, if you look up my name in Cambodian, there's quite a few articles about me because I'm gonna go to the city. Oh wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's so cool, but yeah, also that means that they they can check you out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, when I was in Bali, um the other international fight that got stopped was this girl fighting a Cambodian girl, and um there was like maybe a team of eight Cambodians, and then when I weighed in and came off, like I saw these Cambodians and like just didn't really sort of think anything, and they were like, Oh Michael, and I was like, What? And they were just like, Oh, machine, machine, and I was just like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were like, Oh, we know you from you fought such and such for a world title. I was like, Oh shit, like you guys know me, and they're like, Oh, that's cool, dude. They're like, Oh, famous and famous in Cambodia, you're very famous in Cambodia. I was like, Oh, what the hell? I had no idea. After Cambodia, yeah, it was crazy. I was just like, Oh shit, they're like, No, you have a good name in Cambodia, and I was like, What? That's so cool, yeah, yeah. It was pretty um, it was eye-opening. Even after this last fight, I think there's a video on Facebook of mine and Sam Nang's fight, and there's like 1.5 million views on the fight video. Wow, yeah, and that was in three days. Me and my brother were looking at the view count going up, and it was at 1.5 now. It might be more now, like I haven't checked since, but um Wow, yeah, that's just like pretty much mostly Cambodian.

SPEAKER_01

Mostly Cambodians watching it. But yeah, I guess yeah, blessing and a curse. Yeah. Because now they can study you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's cool.

SPEAKER_00

Like, I got heaps of like Instagram messages from Cambodians, they were saying, Oh, we we like how you fight, we like how you fight, you come to Cambodia, and I was like, What?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, so good, man. Yeah, yeah. Oh, awesome, that's great. That's that's really good. Back to the fight, though. So you entering that fight, you were using the same mindset, game plans, yeah, and then you're like, Oh, okay. So that yeah, that's a probably a good lesson to take away, isn't it? Like every fighter has way more to it. Yeah, yeah. But still, man. Fuck. A guy's had that many fights and you can go to decision regardless. That's impressive.

SPEAKER_00

It was still quite close. So there were a few rounds that were a little bit of swing rounds, but at the end of it, I kind of like stood there and I was like, I don't think I won. You know, like it was close, but I I think like the judges will make the right decision. If they don't make the right decision, I will give this guy the belt and say, I think you won. Because I I thought he'd won.

SPEAKER_01

Is that oh, that's something else interesting. Is that worse? Have you ever had that before? Where like, for example, you'll be in a tight match, but it's kind of like I think the other guy got it, but then you get the win, and then it sort of feels a bit strange. Would that feel I don't know? I don't know what that would feel like.

SPEAKER_00

Nah, I haven't um I've been I've I've definitely been the other guy where like I felt like I'd won, but the other guy had won. Right. And I'm sitting there like, what? But um that happened to me quite a bit in my amateur career. Um I was like the split decision king, but um Yeah yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But um That's almost what you say it's good to have that experience to begin with, though. I think so. Tougher fights, like you really have to fight tooth and nailed, and then obviously you're going right to the end of like the you know, you're fighting the whole, all the Browns. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well that was the cool thing about well, not the cool thing about losing that title, but that was the the thing about losing was I'd lost a lot of my amateur career, so I already knew what losing was like. Like it was not like people think I have like this crazy amateur record that's like 20 and oh or something like that. Man, like I probably am like 15 and five in my amateur career, or some something stupid like that. But um, yeah, I lost a lot of my amateur career, especially the early days, like my first five or so fights.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but that's like I don't know, I feel that's almost more valuable to lose that much in the beginning. I think so. Because um obviously more in the MMA wave uh stance, but Jack Della, Madalena, the only losses he has in his career are the very first MMA fights he had. Everything else has been winning, he's never lost one.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's like a secret weapon, I think. Like, yeah, and and like obviously when I put that post out telling everyone, you know, like I'm very fortunate to have lost a lot of my amateur career. Um, people were like, Did you? Did you lose a lot in your amateur career? I was like, man, like my first like yeah, five or so fights, I was like one and four or something like that.

SPEAKER_01

But like I I don't know. I I feel like that was that's what makes you be that yeah, it's it's a it's testimonies what you've done, right? Like I feel like you'd almost have to have that experience.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then like when you because you've had that and you want it more, yeah. I can I know I can win, I know I can win. But if you just win in the beginning and you get comfy, the ego gets big and then you lose, and then ego's a big one.

SPEAKER_00

Like I definitely say and I say it to the younger guys, like the younger guys in our gym now that are coming through and they obviously don't know the story behind like how I came up and stuff like that, like Ethan and my other coach Alexi would know, but um They just see you winning. They just see me winning, yeah. I'm just like, man, like it's it's built, not bought. You know, like I wasn't this talented guy rocking up to the job. I had to work hard. Yeah, I had to do the work.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not a natural fighter.

SPEAKER_01

How long was your amateur career for I can't remember from a student?

SPEAKER_00

Um I had my pro debut in 2022. So yeah. Yeah, uh Muay Thai in New Zealand's a bit funny, like you can have like one pro fight and still fight amateur. Um yeah, so just before oh maybe just before King of the Ring, I fought Jeffree, and then before that I had like a proper run at being pro. That was my second pro fight, and then Jeffrey was my third, and then from there out it was professional.

SPEAKER_01

Interesting. Yeah, but what was the difference?

SPEAKER_00

Basically, you get paid and it's three minute rounds. Right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But um yeah, I'd I'd been paid for like a few amateur fights, so they could be considered as pro fights, but um, they were still two-minute rounds.

SPEAKER_01

Ah, yeah, okay. So that's the big difference. It's like a and it's still three rounds though, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Three or five.

SPEAKER_01

Three or five. Yeah. And then the recent fight, dude, Niza Fury, the reason yeah, back again took the title back.

SPEAKER_00

Uh uh, no, this is a different title. Oh, different title, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh well. So um yeah. Tell me, tell me. Yeah, so this time I was fighting a tie. Um yep, this for a WMC title. WMC title. Trans Tasman. Um yeah, basically that just allows you to fight on this promotion called Um RWS, which is Rajah World Series. Um Rajadamun is like the oldest stadium in Thailand. It's like pretty much if you fight like traditional Muay Thai or like proper Muay Thai, not one championship, like a proper Muay Thai with like eight ounce or ten ounce gloves, you go to Rajadamun and that's like where the the big boys fight like the best in the world sort of meet. Um yeah, so that was basically to gain entry into that, and so I won that. So I believe it's sometime next year. Uh I'm not too sure on the date that I make my RWS debut. Yeah, that was cool. Is that exclusive? Have you told anyone else that? Uh no, no. So um that was sort of like at the fight, like people were saying that, like, this fight gains entry to RWS, but yeah, like it wasn't too publicised, like CSN didn't cover the last knees of Fury, so it wasn't majorly publicised.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, dude, that's exciting. Yeah, it's cool.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, yeah, Roger Stadium, yeah, but um to fight a tie as well. He's from Sydney, so he um trains people at a gym called SRG. Um, SRG gym in Sydney, they bring a lot of ties over from Thailand to be trainers and fighters and stuff like that. So it was very cool to get a win over him. Like, yeah, it was um yeah, because he's like Southpour and like more of a technical fighter, like also clash of styles. Um more of a forward aggressor, and he's a technical fighter, so yeah, made for a good fight.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was funny watching that because I saw like um some of the highlights and there, and like it's like most of the guys like laughing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Honestly, it felt like it felt like a game of more like it felt like a game. Um, and it was good sportsmanship, like there was no animosity and stuff like that. There was like a little bit of taunting and stuff from him, but yeah, that's just a game.

SPEAKER_01

But just fun, more like fun taunting rather than like jovial mean or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like and yeah, and he and he cut you up a little bit as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so um I dropped him in the fourth round with a left hook. Um, and then I was kind of standing there, like, can I get him out of here? Like, you know, like is he sort of still out to where I can get him out? Um so I started spamming punches, um kind of sort of pulled back and was like, I don't think I'm gonna put him down again. Like, I don't think he's gonna go down again. Um got him against the ropes again, started throwing more punches, and then I saw him loading up these elbows, and I was just like, ooh, I've got to kind of like keep my wits about me. And then I stayed in like that sort of range for too long. He threw this downward elbow on the top of my left side, split that open, and I was like, ooh shit, that was like decent elbow, and then I just felt this warm like gush down my face, and I was like, okay, he's cut me. Yeah, um then it started going into my eye and I couldn't really see. And he kind of looked at me, and he was a self ball, so he kind of looked at me, and then he switched back to orthodox and then just started spamming right kicks on that side because he couldn't he knew I couldn't see. So I was um real like clever gamesmanship from him. So he started spamming right kicks, kicking my arm, kicking my arm, like, holy shit, like I need a block, but like he's like too close for me to lift my leg at all. I was like, should I catch? I was like, I don't want to take these on my ribs. So I was just like, like, what do I do? What do I do? Bang, bam, I'm gonna call with all these right kicks. And then um the ref stops it to check the blood to get the doctor to check it. So I was like, okay, they check it. I think I had like 40 seconds or 30 seconds left in the round. I was like, well, I've already won the round 10-8, so I'm gonna pull back and just like know that I've won the round. So I sort of pulled back, I threw like a lot more shots and stuff like that just to sort of keep it active. But um, yeah, I pulled back a little bit just to know that I'd won the round, and I'm not gonna get him out of there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Does that like knowing you you can't get him out of there? Obviously, you made the adjustments, but you're for you're thinking about that in the moment. Does that kind of like screw of you a bit? Like, I can't put him out. Well but but I guess sounds like you're just like, nah, but I just can't, like, this is the plan. Yeah, like gotta be quick thinking, like, this is what's happening.

SPEAKER_00

That's the thing with um suffering, like that's something I did know already, but suffering that loss, it was kind of like a a major refresher. Like you have to be able to switch between weapons, between tactics. Like, if this thing's not working, stop doing it. It's not working. Change, do something else. That's not working, change, do something else. This is working. Okay, we'll build on this and try make it work better or make it work even better to where I can put him down or something like that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Ah man, so much, so much so so calculative.

SPEAKER_00

It's such a such a chess game at like high level fighting. Like, even. Even in the guys in the UFC, like it's such a like like like you say, like Eugene, like he does so much film study and stuff like that. At that highest level, like every little like 0.5% counts. Yeah, and you have to be ready to change on the fly. Like you you can have a game plan, but like can you really have a game plan? Like you gotta be ready to change on the fly, like at the flip of a dime.

SPEAKER_01

So many like changing like aspects that everyone can how you feel on the day as well. As well. Yeah, yep. Yeah, that's um but that's crazy. And then you ended up in like an A and E. I found this crazy. Like I'm watching the fight, you get you get you know, you you win it, and then you end up going to A and E and you got the belt, yeah, you're bleeding, and you're just there on your own. Yeah, and I'm just like, fuck, isn't that a reality change?

SPEAKER_00

So um to to be fair, usually usually my mum sits in A E with me, but um she had like work commitments the next day and she'd like kind of stuffed up and not gotten that shift off. I was like, look, just go home. Like you can't really help me here. Like, I'll just sit there by myself. She obviously felt terribly by myself, and I was just like, you can't like what are you gonna do? She's like, Oh, I can I can you know cancel cancel the job or whatever. And I was just like, Well, you can't, like, where are you gonna stay? Oh, and I was like, There's no room in like my flat, like there's no spare bed or anything like that. So I was like, what are you gonna do? Sleep in the car, like you know, who wants their mum doing that? So I was like, better off just going, like, I'm a grown man, like I can sit here by myself. It was actually quite cool. Like, I sort of sat there and like there was like this Indian couple sitting there with their kids and stuff like that, and they're looking at me like, what has happened? Yeah, he's been in a huge street fight. Street fight, and I just sat there and I just I actually I didn't say anything to them, I just didn't care less. I was just sitting there um with this belt on the table on the seat, sorry, and I was just like, Man, like I felt quite like proud of myself internally. Like I was sitting there, I was like, you know what, like I feel quite like content, like I'm quite happy to like and it's weird because like it is such a lonely sport. Yeah, such a lonely sport, and that is quite a reality check, but um I actually didn't have a way to get to AE because my car right before the fight ended up breaking down.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no, so I had to walk to the village.

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, it was terrible. I was like, I was driving around my car all day on flight day. Um then I park it up, go home, have a nap, blah blah blah blah, get my bag ready, and then um get my bag ready, and then I come downstairs, jump in the car, put my bag in the car, try to start it. I'm like, what? Start. And I like look at the time and a bad sign. I like look at the time and I was like, I guess I'm walking. So I just like jumped out, locked it, and I just started walking. Luckily, I don't live too far away from the YMCA, but I was like, man, like, yeah, what am I gonna do? Like sit there and be like, stress, yeah. What do I do? I was just like, man, like I'll just deal with it later. So yeah, I um had to get my parents to drop me off to A and E. But um, no, it was cool. Like I was definitely um I was quite content after that, like internally.

SPEAKER_01

That's like that's like a movie, bro. Like finishing off a fight, like getting the time, like bleeding, and everyone's like, oh, amazing. It's like crowd, and then it's like sitting in A. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but um the funny thing was, so I'm sitting there, I put this Facebook post up that you know I'm sitting in A. Um, like a funny post, like I'm not.

SPEAKER_01

Because you got called up by your um by your opponent.

SPEAKER_00

So my opponent calls me up, he's he doesn't speak English that great, but he speaks enough, so he's like, Oh, hey brother, hey brother, how many stitches? And I was like, Oh, I'm not sure, I'm still waiting. He's like, Oh, sorry, brother, sorry, sorry, I'm I'm sorry. And I was like, No, don't worry about it, like it's all good, and he's like, Okay, okay, take care. I was like, okay, see ya. And that was it.

SPEAKER_01

It's so sweet, yeah. It's so funny. I like, I guess. Um obviously I know this, like with people in the combat sports community, 90% of people are really lovely people. And then I think to the average viewer, they're just like, Why is he saying sorry? Yeah, you know, like to beating you up, and it's just like, well, it's still like afterwards as a sport, right? Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's how the world title, like I lost that, and same thing. My opponent comes up to me, and you know, we like shake hands about his oh sorry, brother, sorry. And I was just like, Oh, it's all good. And he's like, Nah, sorry, sorry. And then he walks off, and then I was like, Oh, he's saying sorry because like this is obviously he knows this is my hometown, yeah, yeah. So he's saying sorry, I took you know this moment. I was like, Oh, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01

That's the game, yeah. But yeah, that's man, that's a movie right there. You gotta you have when you make your documentary.

SPEAKER_00

That's gotta be in it. And then you get like a you know, Brando Perich, and then you get the vlog that like follows me around, but I don't have as much as a um as much charisma as him to like keep the vlog entertained. I'll be like sitting in A and E and they'd just be like, you know, say something, Michael, and I'll be like that'll be it.

SPEAKER_01

Like I won't I want to go home, yeah. I wanna go home, I want to get some Maccas. Yeah, I'm hungry. You haven't eaten any like much in the last few days. Yeah, yeah. That's yeah, that's I just that that was such a real moment. I I haven't again like I haven't seen anybody in like fighters or anything post-stuff like that. I think you've actually chosen a really interesting angle because same with like the the pre-fight stuff, which is you and your coaches before you walk out. We talked about a bit a bit about this last time, but I guess it like reminded me like again, like it's uh it can be very lonely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's um yes, a lonely sport, man. Like, and even then, like you got your coaches, which is like I think, you know, your main people you need around. Like, I like I say, I don't want to know, yes men and stuff like that. I don't want to be a man.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_00

Um but even then, like I remember sitting there or standing there, like walking, pacing back and forth, and my coach Alexi was there um because my teammate was fighting, so Ethan had to be up there with him. Um and then I was the next fight, so I was sort of pacing back and forth. I kind of looked at Alexei and I was like, had like questions about the fight, and I was like, should I ask him? I was like, why? Like I'm gonna find out within the next 20 minutes, you know. Like what else can we talk about? What else can we talk about? So I was talking about it. There's nothing to talk about. There's nothing to talk about, like there's nothing to ask, because like it all the thinking has been done eight weeks ago, so I was just like just kind of stood there in silence, really.

SPEAKER_01

Like, yeah, because it's it's almost like this is a random comparison, but it's almost like before you go into an exam, yeah, and you start studying more before you go into the exam, it's not gonna do anything. Yeah, like maybe you pick up like a piece of like knowledge or something, maybe but like probably not, because you once you get in there, it's like, oh shit, like now we're going, you know. That's kind of what that I don't know, maybe that's the comparison. I mean, you talk start talking to your coaches about the game plan for the millionth time, yeah, and then you try and I don't know, maybe there's like something new that happens. But in saying that, I'm just reminded in this moment of um Alex Predetta's second fight with Yuri. Yep. And they were, you know, do you know how he won that fight? Because he won in the second round with that head kick. I don't know if you remember watching it. So this is actually a complete contradiction to what I just said, but he um they were the coach uh Alex's coach was watching like Yuri's Instagram, yeah, and he saw like his head movement and like how he'd like move. Right. Uh I'm sure that's a little more technical there, but anyway, he's saw how he moved and he told Alex, like, oh, when he does this movement, launch for left kick.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then that's how and then he that's how he wins and knocks him out.

SPEAKER_02

Shit.

SPEAKER_01

Like, far out. But that's that's crazy. Like that is like that must have been I mean, maybe ten, maybe half an hour before the fight.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Little moments like that, eh?

SPEAKER_01

But I don't know, like that's I don't think that happens ever. It must be like one in a million.

SPEAKER_00

I think yeah, I think it it does have one in a million.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's a one in a million example. I think like what you're describing is like in that experience, that's kind of the reality. That's the reality of it, you know. But that one was I I remember like him talking about it. I'm like, that is what are the chances? Yeah. Like you can watch someone warm up and your coach is like, yeah, this is what you're gonna do, this is how he moves, and he's gonna do that in the fight, and you're like, whoa.

SPEAKER_00

I had moments like that and like sitting in changing rooms and then like even in fighting and and in training. And I think most fighters will be able to sort of relate to this. Like, you get weird moments of like deja vu, you're like sitting there, like, I've seen this before, I've heard this before. Yeah, and I don't really know how to like capitalise on saying that, you know, like feelings of deja vu, but maybe the fighters like can understand, like you get these random feelings of deja vu, you're just like I feel like I've seen that before, you know? Like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that would be weird. I remember you telling me like uh what one of the King of the Ring fights you did last year, the King of Ring Fight you did last year, and you saw like the was it the second opponent you had, like his leg was sore. Yeah, and you were just like ah Yeah, I can I can capitalise on that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But again, like unless you were sitting there for that exact moment or he's there, like and maybe you'd see it in the ring, I suppose. You probably would, but I don't know but then you're like oh I can just straight away I've got I've got a game plan.

SPEAKER_00

You kind of know you you got a little bit of an idea of what to do. Yeah. That's yeah, that's fascinating. So many like yeah, so many little like so much, it's just so much tactics. Yeah, it's such an interesting sport. Like, I definitely um yeah, I get quite fascinated about it like a lot. And I think like losing as well, um, it reinvigorated me. Like now I like watch probably more fights than I ever had before, like, and I really think about I think about it. Like I think about the sport and I love hearing like pause it and then you're like, wait, what was that little thing? Yeah, I love hearing like the corners like yell out stuff and I'm sitting there like why are they yelling, you know, like what can they see that you know potentially I can't see watching on a TV screen. So yeah, I love hearing people's corner advice, I love like watching the sport and then just trying to understand like why are they calling that out? Why don't they do this? Or wait, if they do this, they're out of position, you know, and just just little things like that. And I catch myself doing it on the bag, like I'll throw something wrong or at the wrong time, and I'll be like, I shouldn't do that because now I'm out of position. And then even when like I'm putting some food in the microwave, and I start shadow boxing for like two minutes, you know, while the food's heating up, I'll just like I'll like throw like a one-two, and I'll be like, Well, I wouldn't do this when somebody's here. So like I think about it quite like intensely like that, quite technically. Um, even my sparring as well. Like, I have bad sparring days, and I'll be like, Well, you did wrong because you were in a bad position here, and you kind of threw this at the wrong time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. What a yeah, study of the game you're becoming.

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, I I think so sensei Michael. A bit of a nerd, really, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, but you have to be. Yeah, uh, if you want to, this is this is what you want, this is the dream, this is the life. But not just the life, this is this is your this is your lifestyle, this is what you're pursuing, right? Like you have to be committed to it. Because otherwise someone else is gonna well that's the thing, right? It's like someone else is gonna commit themselves in in a way to the sport. So I just especially in fighting, like yeah, yeah. That's uh yeah. Um I also want to ask you about uh um is there anybody else at the moment since you because you're doing a bit of coaching now as well, right? Yeah, yeah, oh a little bit of PTing. A little bit of PTing in there, yep. But obviously you're in the gym every day. Is there any other fighters out there uh we should be paying attention to? Ooh.

SPEAKER_00

Like professional or amateur or either or um there's a couple guys in this upcoming um 62 King of the Ring in November that'll looking looking the goods, eh? Um obviously Alejandro, Alejandro's very good.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, Alejandro. I saw I he posted a video today, someone on the bag, and I was like, my god. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like the most like this the like the he was like throwing these punch combinations and low kicks, and I'm like, geez, Louise. Yeah, out of good luck to ever fight some.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, one guy that I think everyone's sleeping on um in New Zealand is this kid named Ongene Rot. Um he's got quite an extensive career in fighting in Thailand and stuff like that. Um he's got crazy international experience actually. I think he's like fought in like Cambodia like six times or something like that. Yeah, like fought in Thailand a bunch. Um all low-key, like I only followed him like maybe two months ago. Um and I was like checking his Instagram. I was like, man, like where has this guy like how have I not heard of this guy? Like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_01

He's been in some uh backwater town in Thailand getting bamboo.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I met him at the last um Arsenal event. So um, yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to seeing him in King of the Ring. Um Reed Miller, he's from the South Island, he's another one coming up. He's got another, you know, kid that's like crazy international experience, and you kind of look on their Instagram, you're like, how the hell? Why isn't anyone talking about this? You know, like why isn't the community sort of like getting behind these guys? Um But I think a big one that I think a fighter in New Zealand that doesn't get a lot of credit for what he's doing, I think probably the biggest is Lucas McAdam.

SPEAKER_01

Like Lucas McAdam. I've heard the name, yeah, but might know the face.

SPEAKER_00

That's the thing, like, yeah, he's he's quite like quite a well-known name in like Australia and stuff like that, and obviously Thailand is fought a lot there, but um New Zealand, man, they just like people just don't know him, people just don't know him, and I'm just like, man, like he's a really good fighter, like you know, he's not knocking dudes out, but he's technically really good. Like he's obviously you know he's got the goods to fight against the elite level, so um, yeah, I think he's probably the biggest one that no one gets around like no one gets behind.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I imagine there's so many people like that in New Zealand. Yeah, yeah. Just in general. I don't even think it's just sport, I think it's just everything business, art, uh like it's just the nature of it. I don't know if it's just I don't just I have this conversation on this podcast a lot about New Zealand and how we perceive people doing things in New Zealand. Like we don't we don't bring people up enough. Yeah, and like people doing amazing things, but you have to do something like I don't know like what like what people need to do to prove themselves. Obviously, from like a an easy one, obviously, for like MMA, like if you're in the UFC, it's like oh wow, from New Zealand, but it's like but the dude was like kicking ass for like five years already. In New Zealand and Australia, yeah, they've been doing really well um uh at other fighting competitions, yeah. And you could say that as well for like obviously film and that, but suddenly with an Oscar, it's like oh he's from New Zealand or she's from New Zealand, and it's just something, yeah. I mean I talk about him here a lot, but I don't know, it does bother me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it is it is quite weird. Like I think recently, like probably Cam Relzen's an example. Like he's been he's been the game out line, he's been he's been doing it, like he's been like beating people up and doing King of the Ring, like he's won it twice, and like now he's just got signed, like people are starting to realize, oh shit.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I was so stoked because um yeah, yeah, I I I um he coaches some classes at CKBO go to, and like when I saw him, like when he won that uh Dana White contender series, I'm just like fuck yeah. And I'm just like here we go. And then um he did that um fight uh fight night in Perth and all the odds were stacked against it. I'm like, I don't think these guys know who he is. And he comes out, knock out, you know. I was just like, yeah, and I was like, damn, all hands, because um Cam's also amazing at jujitsu, he's a brown belt. Yeah, um, he's a jiu-jitsu coach and really good. And I'm just like, man, like I no one has even seen uh his like his full arsenal of skills, you know. And I'm just like, fuck yeah, Cam. I try to get him on here, but he's a busy boy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he's a bad man. And like, yeah, just people don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because I remember like he because unfortunately he did lose that Dana White contender series fight, the first one, but that was also like an annoying matchup. And in his defense, the guy who he fought had like been on there like it's like his third time, yeah. And I'm just like, that's just a bit of unfortunate. And then Cam just dominated all these fights afterwards. He got what fight was it a uh SFL fight or one of those Australian ones, and he got the guy in like a calf slicer. Yeah, and I'm just like, how the fuck do you get a guy in a calf slicer? No one does a calf slicer. Yeah, came out of that crazy like taxi, like what's that movie called? Was it dirty taxi? It's an old movie, but it like shaves his head and that and look crazy, got the halo things on. Yeah, it's cool. I'm a big supporter, but I'm just like, damn. Like, yeah, it's cool watching these guys come through and this on and and the Bulkan Bear as well. Yeah, damn, that was great. He's been doing it for a long time training at the gym. I don't know, I really know him, but yeah, see him around and wow.

SPEAKER_00

He's a bad man, too.

SPEAKER_01

You better watch out, Tom Aspinall, man, because this guy's agile and strong.

SPEAKER_00

He just needs one shot. That was crazy. All those heavyweights, but I think Brandon was fast though as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you can't just yeah, it's interesting. Well, I feel like I don't know, maybe just because of Tom Aspinall being in that division heavyweight, just seeing like obviously how agile. I mean, I mean, DC was also very agile too. And I guess John Jones when he was there, but like we're kind of I don't know, it's like you can't just be a big guy who can hit hard. Yeah, you gotta have more. I I don't think you uh those days are gone.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't think you can do that anymore. That's the thing about MMA these days. Like now it's and like that's the cool thing about City Keepwalk, is like now it's the new wave. It's a new wave of guys where like you know, they're not just strikers coming to MMA now.

SPEAKER_01

It's not strikers trying to figure out how to defend a takedown, or it's not high-level jujitsu guys quickly trying to like get someone in like a uh in a hold or something. Yeah, they're guys that started with MMA, yeah, they're learning MMA, yeah. It's completely different rather than coming from one discipline. There's a lot of like different like thoughts and ideas and philosophies around it, but I do believe I've like yeah, if you start an MMA, how are you gonna lose? Yeah, because even like the thinking life, if you just do pure striking, because all the also the rule set's entirely different, and if you're conditioned to a certain rule set, like trying to adapt to a completely different one. I mean, even for like yourself, you know, doing traditional kickboxing and then doing like Muay Thai rules, yeah, that's already like pretty different. But people will be like, oh still punches and kicks, but like no, one's got this one's got elbows, this one's got more knees, like you know, different the different tempo, like different sort of um like you stand a bit differently, like you know?

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, it's just it's just a lot, yeah. I think like it's just a lot more to like to consider with those details, eh? Yeah. Um so yeah, Rajah Stadium next year, and obviously this year, you know, you've I've I imagine is that kind of no no fights book for the end of this year. For the end of this year. Does it is it back to work?

SPEAKER_00

Um, well, actually, I have been um I've I've actually been redundant for the past um so just for just before I flew to Bali, I was um made redundant.

SPEAKER_01

So um fucking hell, man. You really got put through some shit before made redundant.

SPEAKER_00

Bali fight luster account. Got put through it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

My car also broke the as well just through Bali.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, had it all. But um yeah, we're on the up at the moment, you know. I've got some um got a little bit of part-time work going on and PTs and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, well, the PTs, right? And then you enjoy doing that. What what part-time stuff you doing?

SPEAKER_00

Uh so um uh one of my old PT clients, uh kind I sometimes PT him, you know. My coach Ethan mostly has him. Um he owns a business called CarPow. Um, so it's a car dealership. So um, yeah, I just do odd odd jobs for him.

SPEAKER_01

Helping out in the car dealership. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice, nice. Two or three days a week. Nice part-time job as well, so you just do lots of flexibility.

SPEAKER_00

And he trains as well, so like he kind of gets it, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he understands what you're trying to. Yeah, I guess that that is that's actually key, right? Because they understand what you're trying to do. Yeah, you're trying to go to like a job, you're like, Oh, I also fight, and they're like, What's that? And you're like, Well, I you know, I do like this kickboxing, and you know, I'm training a lot, and they're just like, Well, why do you do that? Yeah, it doesn't sound like you're gonna be committed to the job, and it's like, yeah, but like I'll be here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you'll be here till eight o'clock at night, yeah, yeah. Digging a trench or some nausea. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's like, but it's like, oh, you got a dream, oh that's cute.

SPEAKER_00

See yeah, it's like I had one of those once. Yeah, I remember having a dream. Now I'm stuck in work, like you have to work hard like me. I've got a mortgage and four kids and a divorce. Yeah. Nah, it's um yeah, it's quite interesting. My last day at work was actually quite interesting. It was like probably my worst day of work ever, and I remember like standing there, and um I was like drip soaking wet, and I had my hivers on. I'm at this like factory. Um for some reason we're working at a factory that day, but um I was like drip soaking wet pissing out of rain, absolutely bucketing down. And it was cold as well. It was like coming into May, so it was like freezing, and like I think it was like a week before I flew to Bali, and I remember just standing there, I was like, I'm never, ever like, you know, like wearing the stupid hivers and being some dumb laborer, yeah, you know, ever again. I it was like a moment of clarity. I was like standing there, I was like, That's it, I'm done with this job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never look back.

SPEAKER_01

That's a real moment. Yeah. That's a real moment for sure. Yeah, but yeah, it's brave. It's also brave though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you have to like, yeah, but I yeah, you just I guess it's just the clarity of knowing what you want, right? Yeah, you know what you want. And a lot of people I think I'm getting there. But a lot of people don't know what they want.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that's where like um people probably get jealous.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I don't see everyone's, oh you know, Michael, he won these titles, he did these fights and stuff, and obviously if they don't understand the work you put in.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I really think what it is is that a lot of I don't know, I just find it in my life. I find people who just don't know what they want. Yeah. Or they're or they're like Or they do what someone else thinks that they they're using someone else's way of life, like, oh that's the life I should live.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But it's not it's like, I don't know, it's like not uh they haven't thought about it enough. Yeah. Self-reflection, I suppose, of actually what they want getting deep. But it's true.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I definitely saw a lot of broken dreams in in like sort of the or there is a lot of broken dreams in the trade industry. Like there's a lot of guys that had dreams, but they like for whatever happened, you know, they had kids or mortgage or whatever, something something happened.

SPEAKER_01

Or something or maybe something yeah tragic or silly.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's just like, man, like life's too short, you know, yeah. To to have that. But but it can be it can be a lot. I think also like with fighters as well. I mean, you're obviously an example of this of someone doing well and and on their way to success and gonna keep working, and you know what it takes, but there's probably there's a lot a lot of from what I know, there's a lot of broken dreams in the fight world too. But a lot of injuries you cannot come back from.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Like that's it. Like certain probably a certain amount of concussions you can get before it's like, alright, like you can't do anymore. Yeah. Like I know guys as well who've like had crazy surgeries. And it's like if you get kicked there again, like we can we can't fix it, yeah. And you've got no knee. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Sometimes like I feel like with fight fighting and and just life in general, like some people call it gold or whatever, but like fate and like some things are written. And um I've had like other conversations like this with heaps of fighters and stuff like that, and like some things. Are just written. Like some things are supposed to like dudes that can't fight again because of an injury or something like that. Things like that. Like it's unfortunate. It's sometimes a freak accident, but sometimes it's it's written. You know, sometimes it's like it's supposed to be that way for a reason. Yeah. Because maybe they roll into coaching or something like that and they become the best coach ever, or something like that. You know, like or they start a business and they become a really successful businessman, or like they inspire someone else, or something like that. There's always like a flow-on effect.

unknown

I think.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I I I agree with that. But it depends if you want to listen to that fate.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. That's a yeah, or have that as like a you know, it's God or but also like how would you know?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's tricky. But I know I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, that that's so that's that's very true. Yeah, but I guess it just depends on yeah, I because what I think about even like things I try and do, and sometimes I tell myself, I'm like, how badly do you want it? Yeah, how badly do you want it? Are you gonna work? Are you gonna work? Because there's no one else gonna do it for you. Yeah, that's it, that's true. And it's like sometimes I I I'm not a fighter, obviously, but I I I with business or with even doing this podcast sometimes, and I'm like, oh I can't be fucked, I gotta rub it to something else, and I'm like, but hey man, someone else out there wants it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And they're working, why aren't you working? And I'm like, oh, yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I was getting inspired, like, I feel like social media is pretty cool like that, because sometimes I'll go on social media and I'll see somebody like training and I'll be like, man, they're like hitting the bag harder than I am. I gotta I gotta up my game or something like that, you know? And um, even this last fight camp, like I was in camp with um one of my teammates, Dion, Dion Wilson, and um I'll be like hitting the bag next to him, like I'll see him like ripping the bag, ripping out these cool combos and like going hard, and like I know he's tired, but I'm tired too. And I'm sitting there like, man, like Dion's training really hard, you know. Shit, I can't let guy like you hit the bag harder than me, you know? Like I gotta I gotta keep up with like do more. I gotta keep going. Yeah, I gotta keep going, you know. Like, so it's cool. Like, that's the beauty of like doing fight camps with your teammates and like just training with your teammates as well. Like, even if you're inspired, yeah, you're just inspired.

SPEAKER_01

And you're also just like, Man, I can't get left behind, like you know, because if my opponent will be like them or maybe better, right? And it's just like gotta keep up with it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, even like Daniel as well. He came with sparring once and beat me up, and I was like, my game, you know. Like, how dare you do this guy? Come on, Daniel.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well that that yeah. I think that's the thing that that people with like fighting sports, like say it's a lonely sport and it is an individual sport, but it's kind of it's also not. Yeah, it's it's it's a funny middle ground where it's like it's it's an individual sport, but you need your team.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But on the end of the day, it's up to you in the ring, but before that, like you need the team. You need the team to train. Yeah. So yeah, it is in a way, it is a team effort. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But it isn't as easy. You gotta the best of both wood, I would say.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it's good like that. Like, um, yeah, I d I that's what I'd imagine it's like, because yeah, I did you ever do much team sports growing up?

SPEAKER_00

Nah, never. Yeah, hated them. Hated the team sports. Oh, I sucked at rugby too. I thought I was butterfingers. And I just I like I didn't understand the rules as well. That was a thing. Like, I remember I caught the rugby ball, and I was looking at my mates, and they're just like run over there, and I just like turned around and ran backwards because I thought the idea was you just don't let them catch you. So I ran backwards, and then they're like, Oh, you gotta put the I heard somebody say put the ball down. So I put the ball down on the try line, and I thought I scored a try because like you know, I just ran to the other side, but I just ran backwards away from everyone. Oh, and then um everyone's like, What are you doing? I was like, What do you mean by the way? I've scored a try, you know, you guys are idiots, you know, like you're running over there, like I ran away from everyone. But um, yeah, no, I just yeah, I couldn't understand it.

SPEAKER_01

And yeah, I've just I mean the other thing with team sports in my experience is like you just You really have to all be on the same page, yeah, which I think is really hard. What do they call it? Synergy or synergy, like you'll have to be like mentally intertwined with each other with the game plan because if one person fucks up that little game plan, like it's just like bro, that's it.

SPEAKER_00

And then it's like especially in New Zealand, it's like oh bro, you like missed it.

SPEAKER_01

You know, like it's like pretty harsh. Like Yeah, we are very harsh with that. Yeah, yeah. You let down everyone. Yeah, it's like I don't know. You suck. Yeah, so that's what I was going. I was like, man, my rugby sucks. Yeah, everyone's mean, yeah. Yeah, that's also yeah. I found that when I played football as well. Some of them, everyone's just like, Why'd you fucking kick the ball that way? And I was like, get it out of here. Like, we're in defense, I want to get away from the goal, and it's like, oh, ruin the plan. Yeah, but in fighting them, it's like, yeah, I guess you but then you have also the team plays right, like if someone goes too hard in training, or if they hurt you before the fight, you know, got those considerations to make too. So you've got to have like to trust your training partners and that. Because that's like that must also be hard, maybe from a coach's perspective. It's like, alright, I need to make sure that all my fighters like uh are on the same page with each other, and like um, but they also need to push each other, yeah, but they can't push too hard. Crazy hard because otherwise they can't fight.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's the thing with uh that's a hard balance. Yeah, well, sparring sometimes we get these like dudes that come in and like you know, they'll see me and like they'll see the accolade and stuff like that, and they'll want to spar me, but I don't know them. So I'll be like So what are you gonna do? Yeah, I'll be like, nah, nah, you're all good, and they'll go, Oh what? And I'll be like, nah, I don't want to spar you.

SPEAKER_01

No, because I don't know you. And you probably understand they're like, let me see what King of the Ring boys are like, you know, and it's just like ah, like I can't, like, are you just gonna cut and even if they obviously aren't very good, which they're probably not, yeah. Like, what if?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, what if it's like it's a bit of a risk, so I'm just like, man, like especially like if there's someone like let's say Daniel comes in, you know.

SPEAKER_01

I know I know Daniel, of course the game he's also a professional as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but if it's a guy that's had like two or three fights and I don't know him, and I'm just like I don't know, bro, you know, like yeah, yeah. Let me like see you work and stuff like that, and then I'll I'll gauge you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we've got to be careful, it's your it's your career. Yeah, so like you know, like I'm not putting myself in that danger.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, fighting with the the gym heroes.

SPEAKER_00

So we call them the gym champs.

SPEAKER_01

The gym champs, yeah. The world champ in the gym and then career left in the gym. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, might have seen that clip ones at Joe Rogan GSP talking about that. It's like a lot of guys leave their career in the gym.

SPEAKER_00

A lot of guys, yeah, a lot of guys do.

SPEAKER_01

It's an ego thing, I guess, isn't it? It's like I'm in the gym, I need to be the best. It's like what? Yeah, in the gym of like 20 people. Yeah. It's strange. Where the rounds are yeah, it's like it's strange.

SPEAKER_00

Sometimes you need to like some there's a good healthy amount of ego, like like me hitting the bag next to my teammate Dion, that's a healthy amount of ego because it's like, oh he's hitting the bag hard, you know. I gotta do it hard too. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, it's normal ego, but like I would never like try to hurt him. And like I know for him, like he would never try to hurt me, like, you know, like yeah, it's that's where the ego's checked, and it's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Have you done anything unique in your in the recent fights when we last spoke? Have you done anything different in your training? Like uh different physical I don't know, like is it like different way the way you spa? Maybe you do different uh I don't know, you any different techniques, different training visions?

SPEAKER_00

Couple things. Like not the regimen didn't change too much. Like obviously I I bought Daniel for sparring. Yeah, because um I was fighting a Southpaw, so I'm Hey, there we go. I happen to know the best Southpaw in New Zealand. Yeah. So I give him a text and say, Hey Daniel, can you give me a hand? Um yeah, so I had him come in. Um lucky enough his um newfound coaches let him come in. Um so shout out to Ghost Fist. But um Yeah. Um I was like I say, studying the game a lot more. Like I would go home and watch fights, and like I wouldn't just watch fights, I would kind of like watch watch them, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Like I'm being write notes and stuff or do anything like that?

SPEAKER_00

Not really. I just kind of take mental notes and I'll pick a fighter like in my head that day and be like, I like this guy, I want to watch this guy. Um yeah, so I'll watch like a lot more fights than I usually do and like sort of break things down. Um then like I'll set like little goals. Like I used to do this anyway, but I set like more goals, so I'd usually only do a lot of bag work like in the mornings and stuff like that, and then before uh one class a week, but then I upped it to like two classes a week, I'd do like more bag work. Um so like extra rounds. Um and then I pick like a focus, you know. I want to work my teep today, or I want to like you know, like some days I'll I'll hit the bag and I'll be like, man, I I feel like real shit, you know, I can't get like a flow on. I'll be like, well, that's what I'm gonna work on next time is getting a flow on quicker, you know, just getting like getting a feel and getting a gauge for like what's working today. Um and also a massage. I was like, bro, I've had one massage in my whole life. I had one massage and um I hated it. I thought it was the worst thing ever in Thailand. And it wasn't one of those, like it wasn't one of those dodgy. It wasn't one of those handsome coming, you know, it wasn't one of those ones. But um it was just like so I was staying in a gym at a boxing camp, a Muay Thai camp, um in uh Ubon Rachitani, which is like the what is it, like where all the poor fighters come from. Um I was like 19 years old. And it was like I say, 19 years old, it wasn't still one one of those dodgy massages, but um this massage lady lady came to the gym and like massaged us, and she got to me like I'd never had a massage before. She started like you know, do the elbow on your hamstrings, and like my legs were kicking. I was like, man, what the hell is this so uncomfortable? I hate this, this is terrible. She's like, Oh, you just gotta relax. And I was like, No, I don't want to relax. Taking elbows, you're like touching me and stuff like that. Go away, I don't know you. Um yeah, so um, yeah, I I found out this massage place, like deep tissue massage. So I turned up and I was like, man, I hate massages, you know, like I don't like people touching me and stuff like that. Um I went, I was like, I'll just see how I feel afterwards, and I felt mean, like I felt amazing afterwards. Um did the sauna nice bath after that, um, and I felt great. Like usually sauna and ice bath, I still feel like maybe 40% fully recovered afterwards, but um with the massage on top of that, I was like 70%. So I was like, man, that's like the new thing I'm starting to do was like massages every Sunday. Nice. But um, yeah, yeah, those are like what's that three or four new things that I did into the king.

SPEAKER_01

No, that no, it's quite a bit. Yeah, but uh the massage thing, yeah, that's a bit of a secret. I don't think well not a secret, but I just I'm assuming a lot of fighters will do, but they do like physio, I guess, but not like a massage. Yeah. I suppose.

SPEAKER_00

So I've never seen a physio. Um have you not? Uh yeah, no. Oh wow. I don't know what people go to them for. Like, I don't know, my mum was like not much of a believer in physio, you know. She's like, okay, you know, why would you go to a physio?

SPEAKER_01

That's interesting because I've heard that for uh people do that with chiropractors as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. So it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01

Chiropractor for me changed a lot. It was amazing. But I I think it depends on the person.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Physio works better for some people, maybe a chiropractor, maybe massage. Yeah. I am also someone who does not like massages at all.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, that's probably like a tip for like fighters in general, like recovery. After or after every camp, I try to look back and go, what can I do better? You know, what can I add? What can I subtract? That's gonna make the finished product even better, you know. So this next camp for when I make my RWS debut will be like, okay, what can I add to this one that's gonna ramp things up a bit more? Um so last year before King of the Ring, it was sauna and ice bath. That was like the game changer. It was like, whoa, like I've just discovered fire. So yeah, I'm on the hunt to see what I can discover. That's like the new discovering fire.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, awesome, dude. Yeah, I like man, so much goes into it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, I yeah. I think now like I try to refine them a lot more than just be like I try to be professional, like I try to be a real person.

SPEAKER_01

What gives the most value because also your time is limited as well, right? Because you're trading what five, six days a week, physical, sparring twice a week, yep, yeah. And you know, you gotta f and you gotta fiddle these other things and like what's the most effective way to spend my time when I'm not training, what's gonna help me for the next week of training? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a lot a lot to consider. Oh, awesome, dude. Um, I think that's probably all I've really got for you at the moment, dude. I've um I guess we could maybe do like uh do a little quickfire session I did last time and we'll we'll see how we go. Um alright. What uh what is something that you can definitely not eat as a fighter before training?

SPEAKER_00

The big one has been like recently. I don't know why. Like I don't know why, but um maybe all the Muslims will be able to give like a proper answer. But like I don't eat pork when I'm fight camp. And like I used to like years ago when I was like an amateur, I used to eat pork all the time because it's cheap. Um but they just decided to stop eating pork because I was like, man, it's kind of like it's not the best for like your digestive, it's quite hard to digest and stuff like that. So I reckon pork, eh? Like pork, yeah, it's pretty like it's pretty hard to digest. It takes a while to digest as well. So yeah, I don't know. I've been laying off that for like the past like three or so years.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. Um any um new um anybody recently doesn't have to be a fighter, could be entertainment world, could be whatever. Anybody inspired you? Ooh.

SPEAKER_00

Um inspired me. A lot of like I'll say sorry, like maybe the old school guy, I say old school, but they're the generation before me. Like um one of my coaches, Alexi, still inspires me to this day. Like, you know, I think um not just like a great fighter, but um just a good role model, you know, like a real man's man kind of thing. Doesn't look very manly, looks like a little boy, but you know I uh it's like quite relatable to me, you know. Like I look don't look like fighter and I look like kind of like a little kid, but yeah, you know, you do look young, bro. Yeah, I look so young. But um probably should hear the dudes at the gym that you know I tell them I'm 27 that it's like oh that's old and I'm old. What? But um for him, yeah, nah, he's like real manly and like he's quite a um level-headed dude, very um stoic, very stoic, very um, very mature, very intelligent, super intelligent dude. Um in fighting and in just normal life. So um probably him. I take a lot of inspiration from him, and he had some like crazy wars and um in fighting in Muay Thai and stuff like that, and just like an insanely high pain tolerance. And I was like, man, like if that guy can do like pretty much everything he's done, like there's no reason no one else can, like, it's not impossible. Like people are capable of so much more. So um yeah, definitely him, I would say, is the number one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, nice. Um, have you got a um favorite combo that you like to throw?

SPEAKER_00

Nah, what I used to, but like these days, um I try to think like not combinations anymore. I try to think like what's gonna work for this situation, you know. Like I just kind of let it flow. I let it just come out, and I don't really think I just sort of knee cord is really good. He trains it city kickballs and he's super good at that, he's super good again, good at getting into this flow state where he can just do stuff and like he'll do like a spinning back first and then he'll roll into a spinning back kick and then he'll throw a one, two, three leg kick. Like he just flows. So I try to I try to do that. I try not to have like a favorite set move that I like doing or favorite set moves. Um people will think like I like throwing overhands, but for this last fight, I didn't throw a single overhand in like the fight camp. I was like, no overhands, no some more nonsense. No some more nonsense. I was like, you know, like no big overhand, no mark hunt, no, no none of that. I was like, alright, we'll just you know, like stick to the basics, sticking to straight shots and stuff like that. So um, yeah, I just let it flow. No favorite combination, no favorite setup, or just whatever works on a particular person.

SPEAKER_01

Nice, nice. Um is there anything uh in trading that you don't like?

SPEAKER_00

Oof early mornings are always tough, but um I feel like sometimes my best work comes in the early mornings. Like why I don't know, but I hate waking up, waking up for training.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, waking up for training, I imagine. Um, six or five?

SPEAKER_00

Sometimes five oh, because like um for the part-time work I do, like I go in at 10 a.m. So it'll be different times. Like sometimes my other teammates are needing to get to work early, it'll be early mornings, or if it's just me that morning, it'll be a little bit later, like 8 a.m. or something like that. But yeah, I I would still say probably waking up in the morning, you know. Like waking up sucks, like either way. Yeah. If you got somebody telling you to wake up at this time or you have something waking you up at that time, it's just like I don't want to. Yeah, I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01

Then you get there and you're like, alright, and then you do it, and you're like, Alright, I feel better.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I should have done that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. That's uh yeah, that do you still get uh someone else told me this at the gym? I think it might have been um uh a guy I've had on the podcast, yeah. Adam, he told me this. He said, still to this day, even though he trains like every day, probably like you, like he still he sometimes like especially before sparring, he'll get like this feeling of like I don't want to do this. Yeah, 100% man. It's like I'd rather why like and but I'm like you I'm like you still have those feelings, like he's like, yeah, man, like before like every training, I was like, Man, I do not want to do this.

SPEAKER_00

I think it was um yeah, even before sparring, I was like, Well, sparring's a little bit different, like I won't want to do it, but I'll be nervous as well. Like, pretty much yeah, especially when I'm in a fight camp, like 95% of the trainings I'm pretty nervous for because I'm just like, oh man, you know, like it's gonna be tough. But um I won't want to do it as well. I'm just sitting there just like I just yeah, I just cannot. I just cannot. And I'll be like, oh I did it last week, but that was last week's me. This is this week's me. I don't want to, but um you just gotta, right? Like you just gotta there's no choice, there's a fight waiting at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So the early mornings, yeah, main ones suck. No, that's fair. Yeah. Um have you um any um any movies you've been watching recently that you've uh been inspired by or enjoyed? Ooh.

SPEAKER_00

What did I watch on the way to Bali? I yeah, I don't watch any movies, but um, if I'm on a plane, that's when I'll like catch up on movies. Um last movie I watched actually was um Avatar, the first one.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, you never seen it?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I'd seen it, but like it was on Sydney recently, um, and the movie was on the plane I was watching. I was like, this is such a good movie. I haven't seen it in like you know eight or so years. But um, not recently, no, I haven't watched any. I'm such a like yeah, especially after a fight game, like I'm probably the most like anti-social, you know, I haven't done anything. Like you know, I've been like cooped up in a gym and just been like locked away from the world, and you finish your fight and then you're like, well, this this oh the world's been rotating. The world's been doing stuff, you know?

SPEAKER_01

Like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I bet it is like that. So yeah. Um and yeah, before all right, before we go, is there anything you wanna say, promote, um, shout out?

SPEAKER_00

Um promoting, no, but um I would say a big shout out to obviously everyone at my gym, Corinne May, House Payne, my coaches, Ethan and Alexi, um, and my one sponsor on board, which is Box Vanesse. Um, Oz Jabu runs Box Vanessa and CSN, so um big shout out to him, you know, all the stuff that he does for me and all the gear that he gives me and yeah opportunities.

SPEAKER_01

Nice, yeah, awesome, bro. Hey man, your journey is fucking awesome. I l I love that I've gotten to like kind of check it out ever since you did King of the Ring and just going up and up. So keep doing what you're doing, got a great mindset and just keep chipping away. Keep going, keep going, man. Keep doing cool stuff. Hell yeah. That's it. Life's short. Yeah, you know, you'd be getting older be like, hell yeah, I did all that cool shit. Yeah, that's what it's about at the end of the day. Yeah, have some cool stories. Absolutely. Awesome, dude. Thanks for coming on and thanks everyone for listening. Cheers for having me. Bye.

Contributor

Scott McDonald-Bull

Host