EP #97 - An MMA Interviewer Who Can Actually Fight - Paddy Baynes

Paddy Baynes is the voice behind ‎⁨Squaredupmma and he joins me to yarn about how he ends up producing radio, talking UFC on air, and heading to UFC 284 in Perth where Islam Makhachev and Alex Volkanovski headlined a massive week of fight media.

We talk about what most fans never see: the behind-the-scenes production that turns fighting into a global event, the people who shoot the walkout packages, media access, and why deeper “human” questions don’t fit the usual press formats. Patty also talks about doing the City Kickboxing Alta programme and having an actual MMA fight, to gain a further understanding of what fighters live through: the brutal routine, the injuries, the weight of doubt, and the mindset it takes to keep training when quitting would feel easier.

We also get into the sport’s messier edges, from fighter pay and career risk to UFC politics, streaming frustrations, and how creators can lose their love for the game when they start chasing numbers.

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Transcript

Meet Patty Beans And Squared Up

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And I'm here with Patty Beans from Squared Up MMA. He's even got the hat on as well, just in case I forgot. Gotta get the branding in where you can. 100%, bro. Um so for those who don't know who Patty is, uh Patty's the brains and the voice behind Squared Up MMA. It's a broadcast uh combat sports channel. Uh he talks to fighters across Australia and New Zealand. And um not only is he a journalist, he has also did the Ulta program at City Kickboxing where he had a uh a proper MMA fight, uh, which is pretty crazy. So he knows what he's talking about. Because he's been he's been in the fire. He's been in the fire. So um, yeah, man. I guess what would be cool, um, I don't know if you've talked too much about the beginning of your journey, but I think it would be great to start off with why did you want to be a journalist? And then we can talk about then white MMA journalists.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Um, I guess I want to start with saying journalists is a generous term. Um I usually call myself an interviewer. Yeah. Um because I feel like there's a certain integrity that comes with journalism and they're a bit more a serious tone that comes with it, and I'm not a serious guy at all. Um so but it all kind of started because I work in radio now, but I'm a builder, um builder by trade. And so when I started working in radio, I was producing for do you l watch the morning shift or listen to the morning shift? No Mark I I know about it, yeah. So Mark Marto Mark, Mark Pied, he used to work at Mediaworks and he had a sports show, and I was just producing that for free because I wanted to work with him.

From Builder To Radio Sports

SPEAKER_02 1:35

And um I was like the UFC guy on the show, which is I was becoming a big fan at the time, so I love to talk about it. And the opportunity came where the UFC came back to this side of the world, and it was in Perth for UFC 284, which was Islam Volkonovsky. Oh, the first one. The first one.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah, that was huge, that was massive. Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

And so they're like, Do you want to go as media? Because I missed out on buying tickets with my mates, and I was just like, Oh, I don't know, blah blah blah. Ed Sharon's on the same weekend. Um and I had this weird thing where I hadn't missed an Ed Sharon concert at the time, and I was a big fan of Ed Sharon. Alright. Um hardly relevant to the story, but then I was like, you know what? I'll go. Um so I found the money, booked the leave, um, went on the trip, and so when you're media for the UFC, it's a media week. And so there's a series of events that you go to um that you typically uh have media access for. And I'm at the first one, I'm sitting in the back room where it's just rows of tables, people sit down, one fighter comes in at a time, and uh and you just ask them questions. And I'm sitting down at the back, um, because I'm just there to I'm essentially here for the event. And I'm like, you know what? I um I might never get to do this again. Like I should probably get fully involved, enjoy the experience. So I went and got up as close as I could, um, got out my laptop. Like most of these fighters I'd never heard of before in my life. Um, like Jack Della Maddalena, who's fighting um today actually. Um Carlos Pratos. Yeah, yeah. The uh I'd never heard of him and he was fighting on that card, and like a bunch of people who are like semi-big names now. Um because I was super casual at the time.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah. It's interesting, um, just on that point about knowing the UFC fighters and that, it all like comes down to like how much they promote themselves because there's some guys who just go so hard on the promotion before even like the Dana Whites contender series or before they even touch the UFC. And like it's cool in that, I guess, because you've only got you know, that's such a big uh fame, reputation builder. But when you get someone like JDM, Jack Mel Jack Dal Madelina, who is just an incredible fighter, that he's amazing at what he does, but you

First UFC Media Week Lessons

SPEAKER_01 3:45

know, by nature he's just kind of a quiet dude, you know. And it's like a little bit of a shame that these guys don't get more. I think he is getting his kudos now because he was champ and he did you know whatever happened with the Islam fight, but he did well, you know, he didn't get subbed or knocked out, you know, he tried his best, and unfortunately Islam is a beast. I mean, that's a hell of a fight to have. It's your first defense, Jesus Christ. But like, I just think it on that point, like you say you don't know people, but it's like it's sort of like a bit of a shame sometimes with these quieter guys, or if you're a bit more reserved and you have to like push yourself to push to get yourself out there, but that's the game, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yeah, certainly um to the casuals who like won't sit down and say it's a pay-per-view. There's two cards before the main card. Yeah. And so like a hardcore fan will sit down at the early prelims, and then that's how you get introduced to the new fighters.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

And some of those fights are better than the main card fights. You got people fighting tooth and nail just to get paid out like five grand or something because they're just like, I've got no other way out. All I have is this. Uh it's brutal. And um fighting to pay rent.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Yeah, man, that's or if you're if you're Brando Perachichich to live in your van. Yeah, that's that's also yeah, and he's fucking a machine as well. He's yeah, I mean he's fighting for a title, uh not title, sorry, ranking, and it's his third fight in the UFC. I know, but you just see how he fights.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

I mean, good luck. It's like that new wave of heavyweight fighters, isn't it? Where it's like you can't just be a heavy header now. Yeah, those days are gone. Those days are gone, bro. You can't just be like your Derek Lewis and stuff. Like you gotta be agile. Well, Derek Lewis is fighting on the White House card. Yeah. Oh look, he's a cool dude there, but I I guess what I mean is like you can't look at that fighting style and be like, oh, I'll do that. Yeah, yeah. That's kind of what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

It is the most fan-friendly, that's for sure. It's fan-friendly, but not when the other person say is gonna take you down and then that's a boring fight.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Um, it just depends on the skill level, right? Because then if if someone if those guys are such big hitters, but they got no grappling, and that was kind of the case with heavyweight, I feel like, probably until the last few years, probably, probably and my opinion until Tom Aspinall kind of came, and yeah, maybe uh Cyril, Cyril Garnes was not bad. Obviously, John Jones, very good at ground pound and that, but like, and obviously there was DC, but I well there wasn't many of like the obviously the best of the best, but I and from what I've seen, I just don't, you know, in heavyweight division, there's just not as many guys who are that dynamic. You expect a striking fight when you yeah, you want the you want the big hitters, you want big knockouts, all that crazy shit, which I get, but I just I just think now you watch like Brando, it's like you can't just be a big striker against him. You're gonna have to be good at everything. Anyway, continue.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Uh and then yeah, so I was I was interviewing all these people, um and like so say I just m when my turn came, well not really, you don't get turns, it's like it can be pretty uh cutthroat and say like with Alex Volkonowski when he came out, it's half an hour window, and then so you just kind of have to try cut in when the one question ends, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Uh so every time they're like I kind of had my go. And then I'm in this room thinking there's actually not many people here who um do this as like a dedicated thing. Like there was um MMA junkie, uh MacLife, submission radio, uh MMA Crazy, and uh MMA Fighting were kind of like the main people, and then smatterings of um uh other broadcasters locally, like news and stuff, and they kind of just sit at the back and don't really do anything, they're just there doing their write-ups. Um but no one from New Zealand. No one. And I guess I guess um Shane Young was the only fighter New Zealand fighter on that card. Um and so I was just like, oh actually, like there's this feels like there's room here, like there's not like an oversaturated market or anything like that. Um and I was asking, like, I remember specifically the moment where I was asking Islam a couple questions, and they were kind of deeper questions, like it was how um dealing with fame his fame had grown and I've seen that clip of it, yeah. I went right back on your um and he didn't quite understand. Yeah, and I realized that the kind of questions I wanted to ask, which were like the deeper questions that kind of might might have needed to be picked apart a little more or required a back and forth to get um what you're looking

Quiet Fighters And Promotion Pressure

SPEAKER_02 8:05

for from that question, um a scrum where you got one shot to ask your question was not the environment. Um so I kind of dwelled on that, had an amazing time with that UFC experience, came back to New Zealand, had a look what there was, and then over the kind of course of the I think it was like eight months after that, before I actually launched Squared Up and did my first interview, um the I kind of thought about it and like what do I want to achieve? I want to kind of at that point in time people all the interviews were like statistics based or about the fight and like Yeah, that's happening and the like on the day. Yeah, and or um talking about previous fights, but it was about like being in the cage there physically and the skill and like nothing about like the people the fighters as people. Um and that's kind of what I wanted to I wanted to talk to them as people, not as fighters. Which is it's a lot of people are doing this now. It's yeah, it's a little frustrating.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

I I've seen that trend. I mean, there's the what's her name, Nina drama. I know that she's all about trying to do pranks and funny videos and ask silly questions and that, and some people really fucking hate it, some people think it's cool. I think it's fine, but uh I have noticed, yeah, where more people ask, it's like yeah, it's like I guess it's that fine balance, right? Because if you're just like a casual or someone who wants to watch and then you want to get deep, you know, someone like Volkanovsky, I saw someone like I think it was flagrant, like really broke down technically his fight with Lopez or something, and I'm like a second fight actually, and he broke down. I was like, wow, yeah, like this is cool hearing it, but it's like yeah, every little movement, how you move your feet, how you move your body, how you you know pivot off, and all that technical stuff. Some people like this don't give a shit, you know? And that and obviously for the socials and stuff, no one you know that stuff's not really gonna you know blow up, I guess, which is annoying, but it's just doesn't and it's already niche enough as it is. It's all MMA, yeah. I mean MMA, I wouldn't say now's that niche. I mean it's at the White House, bro.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

I think it's I think it's peaked and it's kind of it's calmed down a bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Okay. Because being at the White House is pretty it's pretty about as mainstream as it gets, bro.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

I guess, but the White House isn't popular. You get what I mean? Like worldwide, people are not impressed with the US government. Um I get where you're coming from. Yeah, yeah. So it's like in the in the zeitgeist sort of thing, it's like you're not it's not perceived as cool. Right. People only I think gonna tune in because it's a spectacle. It's like, oh my god, they're having a UFC fight at the White House. And the cards, like, as far as a UFC card goes, it's a cool card, good card, but for something that was supposed to be like this is gonna be the biggest card of all time, we're gonna have six title fights and stuff like that, it's not what it was built up to be.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

No, I I I totally agree with that. But I just think my what I'm saying is like with mainstream, like you couldn't be in the White House unless it has a statue. Obviously, Dana White and Trump are obviously best mates, whatever, so that helps. But yeah, it's just kind of crazy that it went from like, yeah, looks like a couple of guys having brawls and like this tiny dingy ring, and now it's on the you know on the White House lawn or something.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Yeah, it's uh I mean that is a fair argument. Uh yeah, yeah, definitely on the publicity sort of thing. And yeah, it's an interesting one with like I think the peak was just after well, there's the Connie Years and then um just COVID, they had their big boom. It was just the only sport that was on. Yeah. And so and then that was kind of when Izzy was at his peak as well. So New Zealand was doing really well at the time. And I think as it's become more political as well, um, and it's very much got a right-wing connotation attached to being a UFC fan now, even if you're not you don't lean that way politically, it's yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, um, I mean, just like having Trump at an event, and it's just like, oh, so you like you do that stuff that Trump goes to, it's like, oh man, like it's can I not just enjoy something?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

It's also tricky as well because I he helped out the UFC a lot in the early days. He, you know, whether you like the guy or not and all the other political things, sure, that's another hole.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

But yeah, let's just the amount of tangents we're going down.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, no, but no, no, it's cool, but I just want to like the point, I guess, if we want to focus on the sport itself, he funded a lot of the sport, he's put a lot of money into it. He gave like I think a few of his event spaces to Dana to use for the UFC like back in the early 2000s when they had like no money and were on like spike TV and stuff. So I get it. And obviously now Trump has now gone past fucking doing that and being on the what was that TV show? Uh The Apprentice.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Yeah, I can't believe it was escaping my head.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

And uh, you know, gone from that now to the you know, fucking wild. But it's just I guess when I think about it, I'm like, you know, l when he comes out and people, you know, people respect him in the in the MMA UFC space. I understand it and I get it, but it's it when you want to look at everything globally, it's like, yeah, it's cooked. But when you just want to go and look at the UFC and MMA itself, it's like he has done a lot for it. You can't deny that.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah, and I think like that, but that's that that's what's tricky about any time there's politics involved in any sport, you know? It's like well, years ago with like the N was it the NFL Oh the uh the Kaepernick stuff? Was it like people got down on like one knee, like the national anthem and stuff? Like I'm yeah, uh Kaepernick, it was that okay. Yeah, because I'm not I'm not we're not American in that, but it doesn't affect us. But I guess that's another like now we're bringing politics into sport, like does it belong there? Um and I I don't know. Does it belong there? Does it not? Is it important to have connotations? Are we using sport for escapism? Um, should it be uh but it also showcases society? It's like art imitating because you can argue that also sport is art in a way. So to quote Matan, are you getting political right now?

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Um but I forgot where we were now.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Um

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SPEAKER_00 13:54

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SPEAKER_01 14:44

Now we were we were on your the finish up your experience in starting squared up MMA.

Launching Squared Up MMA

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Yes, so yeah, and then I kind of had that UFC experience. There was a guy then named uh Matt Davies, a photographer, um, does a lot of MMA photographer, amazing photographer, amazing guy too. He kind of realized that it was my first time and kind of took me under his wing and showed me around like kind of said, Hey, don't do this, don't do this. Um, like said give me a list of unprofessional things, like say like asking for photos with the fighters and stuff like that, especially as long as you've got like UFC accreditation stuff on. Like, don't do that. Um You can just take a screenshot of your interview. Yeah, that is true. Um, and yeah, so then I came back and thought about a name. Like the original one I had was like inside MMA, I think was what I was thinking of. And then I found out like it was one of the biggest MMA shows ever, and I thought I was a genius for coming up with that. Uh and I yeah, I settled on Squared Up. Well, it was squared up, and then the handles were taken, so then I had to end up putting it on MMA as well. And I was like, well, it makes sense. I I niche into MMA. Occasionally I'll leave it. You might go into like some kickboxing or maybe some grappling, but yeah. And the um the other goal was like everyone was talking to fighters and stuff, but no one was talking to I was interested in MMA adjacent things. Like I've got an interview sitting in my back pocket with a guy named Jake Mockemokle, and he is um the guy who films all the video packages, like so you know when the just before the fighter walks out, and there's like the stuff you see in like Auckland or whatever, or so he does he lives in the lives in the mount, and he drives up and does all that, and he did a real cool one for Kai. He did Carlos's most recent one. Um so talking to people like these, and like people who like um say on the production crew of um Fight Nights, and like I want to know how much um uh the royalty fees are for walkout songs, yeah. Stuff like niche stuff like this. These are the people I watch I also want to talk to, as well as fighters and coaches and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Um behind the production of creating an event where it's uh you know, obviously the the fight is what we're focusing on, but the everything that surrounds it to make it what it is, right? Yeah, I love that too. And you've because you've worked a bit of backline and some events and that, and obviously with radio, and you can kind of see what is really behind, you know, two people talking on mics, you know, as an example, uh, on a radio show and what actually makes it work and who pays for things and where's the funding and and I guess that's probably where it comes from, because if you're not aware of that stuff, then you don't know it's there.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Uh like for example, me being in radio, most people when they think of radio, they think of the announcers, the producers, and then that's kind of where it ends. Yeah, but the the amount how far back it goes with the people behind the scenes is crazy. Uh the industry is quite large in a sense, it's not, but like behind the scenes, it's a very big team. Like what there's 50 people on air in New Zealand and then hundreds of people who work behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Yeah, well, you think about all the production, right, that goes into just starting a r having a radio show go on air, and then obviously the right frequency that you're on and making sure that the broadcasting equipment is working as it should.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

And uh and as we both know, there's always problems with broadcasting equipment.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Broadcasting equipment and the talent shows up on time, and then making sure that you know oh we said the wrong thing, let's cut to commercial. But um, but yeah, it's just like yeah, like I I've seen a

Behind The Scenes Of Events

SPEAKER_01 18:08

bit of that. I've done a little bit of oh like live years ago, I did like the Volvo Ocean Race in Auckland. That would have been fuck 2015, I think. And I did like I was doing the sound for it, and uh, that was a horrible gig, it was really stressful. But I had all the skippers and stuff, and they had to and there's someone interviewing them, and then I just remember like the guy was like, Oh, by the way, we've got a few camera crews coming in, you might need to give some audio lines. And I'm like, Yeah, okay, I've got a couple of cables or whatever, and then like far out, like 20 different camera crews came in, and then they all like different speak different languages because they're translating it, and I was just like, This is intense, and I did not know this was happening. And if you're already stressed for the job, yeah, it would have made it worse because I had like, I don't know, there were so many events on at this time that I got like the B-grade like headset microphones, and I was like, Man, this is a televised event like worldwide, and I'm like, this is all the shit I have to fucking put up with because no, we need to use these for like the Spark Arena gig or something, and I'm like, oh fuck. So yeah, I remember that yeah, back from when I was working in events. I'm just like, man, I'm just running around like a headless chicken, like making sure it works, and uh, it was not a fun time. And that's why when I look back on events, I'm like, yeah, like happy I did have the experience, but not in a rush to go back.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

And I mean, because of that experience, I've probably eased into the doing this because it makes it less scary because you're like, oh, I have a rough idea how it works.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yeah, it's also like there's there is some fun of events because you really get to bond with everybody, and there's a bigger crew, and then you can kind of be like, oh, the lighting guy, the sound guy, the video, uh, and then you've got the cameras, and then you've obviously got stage production and that. And some of that, like I do miss kind of being around it, but then it's just so fast-paced that like sometimes you just you have to be super alert and the shifts along, and it's like you're working crazy hours, man. Like, I worked some very illegal hours, let's put it that way. And that's what happens in entertainment, though, that's normal, which is kind of crazy. And I've and like saying we're talking about MMA, I mean, these guys are working crazy hours as well, very physical. And I mean, the other thing that I find wild with a lot of fighters is then like you cut all this weight, you're going for all this shit, and then you gotta travel, and then you gotta like adjust to another time zone, and then you gotta like somehow to show up on the day and be fresh. Fuck. Like, that's incre that's that's a lot of mental work you gotta do to be like doesn't matter if I'm half asleep, doesn't matter if I haven't eaten right, I'm gonna win. And like you said, and then that's for your rent money. Yeah, that's for your rent money. For most of them, it's for fuck all. So yeah, well that's it. Oh

Fighter Pay And Survival Jobs

SPEAKER_01 20:33

the fight a pay discussion, right? That's a big one. Um, but it's what was the I saw a vi was it some of the one of the female fighters, she was delivering Uber Eats or something. I saw a clip of it. I can't remember her name, damn. But um I saw like a I saw like a video about it recently, and I'm like, it's not a good look. I mean it's a fair few of them on OnlyFans as well. So gotta do what you gotta do. Yeah, you gotta pay them bills. But yeah, it just it's it just kind of sucks though. It's like I guess that's another thing that in my opinion might hold back the sport. It's like, well, why would I go and risk like a lot of if I'm gonna hurt damage myself, right? If I if I'm in America for example, and I look at NFL, or I look at the UFC, and I'm just like, well, NFL, at least I get all like I think they do pay for a lot of medical things for you in the UFC, but the pay in the NFL is substantially way more, right? And then you know you're probably gonna get CET, you're probably gonna damage yourself in ways, and maybe MMA is safer in some ways, but it's like I feel like if you had if if you had the choice and you want to weigh it up with like your career and finance and that, you probably choose the NFL. The UFC and being an MMA fighter doesn't seem to pay the dividend unless you love it and that's something else. But that's a recruit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Yeah, it's um after like going through a camp myself and fighting it and it's like it sucks.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

It's

The Ultra Fight Camp Reality

SPEAKER_01 21:58

like Yeah, man, let's Talk about the camp. God damn, you ever did the whole Ulta experience. Um that's so cool, bro. So you that's a what's a 60 week? How many weeks? 20 weeks, 21 weeks. Yeah. Man, 60, 60 weeks. That's over a year. Yeah, bro. It's so long. I think I think that because there's always the Ulta programs on. And some people do it twice. And I'm just like, oh damn, like they they roll into each other. Is it still going? Oh okay, yeah, fair. That's probably why I think of that. But uh anyway, um 20 that's that's still wild though. Half a year, yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Five, yeah, just over five months. Everyday training. Every day again it starts off depending where you do it as well. CKB's one's five days a week, moves into six days uh at halfway. But uh the other ones offer, I think Core is the Core MMA in Hamilton is the only other one that does five days, everywhere else is three days, so it's far more manageable, yeah. Uh, but I wanted the closest fighter experience, so I went to CKB. Yeah, and it's closer to my house. Yeah, and I think um just in general, when you're like taking up some kind of combat sport, access is the number one thing. You've got to remove as many barriers as possible for you to make excuses to not go. Um because yeah, as soon as like say you're you're not feeling it or something like that, you can be like, oh, it's half an hour to get there, I'm running late, I might as well not go, all that sort of stuff. Like when you're exhausted, you it doesn't take much to try quit.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah, especially something like that. I think even for me, like um I yeah, I think if I if you have a goal in mind for the for the fight and it's like, well, I if I don't show up, my thinking would be like, Well, I'm gonna get my ass kicked if I don't. Like I'm eventually gonna have to do this fine less I pull out, and then it's like, well, what a waste of money and time this has been. So but then it's like, oh, if I don't show up today, like I might miss out on some real good knowledge or something. Um, but there are those moments like for me, like I always find with like the JITs and stuff, like I haven't done much recently, but I sometimes when I'm busy and get tired from other things, I'm like, fuck, do I want someone on top of me for an hour, sweating their balls, having their balls on my face? Like that doesn't sound like a good Wednesday evening to me. So it's just like I don't know, like sometimes I'm just yeah, but that's and when you have a fight coming up though, that's something very different.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

It also helps with the motivation because with Ulta, you know you're having a fight at the end, and you know it's someone in your group.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Uh so unless they pull out and then they and then you just get like, oh, by the way, here's a guy who's fought twice, and you're like, oh so yeah, something because that happens.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

It does happen, but they do tell the person to kind of not go all out. Yeah, that's true. So they pick someone who does know how to have some control and keep it a competitive fight instead of just getting absolutely smashed. Um but the yeah, so you just know the days you don't go, you're like, oh, whoever my opponent might be, they're getting their training in, sort of thing. Uh so that kind of motivates you to not get left behind.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

You had done some martial art experience before that. I think you've got the done jujitsu, you're uh is it blue belt now?

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Uh no, I'm still because I haven't I haven't gone back since my fight. So I'm uh I was two-striped white belt going in. So two years on and off on the mats at Tukaha in the city. Uh so it's certainly an advantage. Um the or jujitsu, in my opinion, is the hardest part to learn. Yeah, yeah, the because that's what most people struggled with is like the hip movement from bottom, is kind of where everyone seems to struggle with. And then you're adding on the strikes on top of it. Yeah. Uh and so it's funny where when you do a jujitsu versus jujitsu at a white belt level, it's not that much of an advantage. You like have to actually start thinking and stuff, but trained versus untrained, it's day and night. Yeah, 100%. Like you'll smash someone who is um like pure example is I think I was rolling, I started on the bottom with someone who had like 30, 40 kgs on me and I swept them and then stayed in mount. Oh, I stayed in top position, and all because they had no training and I just knew how to uh knew the basics. Yeah, I knew the basics. Yeah. And you when you automatically know the basics, it's an advantage.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah, because you got the muscle, uh, you got the reactions and the reflexes to to know what to do. And that's one of the hardest things to try and like uh in my experience with jujitsu, the hardest thing to learn, especially when you're older. We're not like I'm not 10 years old, but I can pick this up in like one session, you know. Um, but yeah, so you obviously learned all the kind of the whole stack of all the different things you need to learn in MMA. So what what would you say was the I guess let's start on kind of on a technical point of view, like fight fighting.

Unlearning Jiu Jitsu For MMA

SPEAKER_01 26:27

What was the hardest part to learn for the for your fight, like in the training? Funnily enough, it's still jujitsu and it's unlearning instead of learning.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

So because it's MMA, it's yeah, exactly. So a lot of the jujitsu stuff doesn't work because um there is no fear of being struck in the face, especially like bottom stuff. So your guard retention is like you're not gonna do that anymore. It's if you've got space, you're trying to get up. Uh and that was the big one where like if they were there, I was just like moving from hip to hip, keeping them at a distance, not trying to get up. Um, and that doesn't help you um with the judges. So um unlearning um a lot of all that that sort of stuff and it's like being more aggressive, and that was um very difficult uh in conscious decision, especially because I thought it was gonna be an advantage and it ended up being a disadvantage in some ways.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah, I guess when someone's yeah, if you Yeah, because in jujitsu if you can get someone in closed guard and you can you work triangles or work whatever that doesn't that's not gonna apply. But you still get a few triangles, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Yeah, you've got to be quick though, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:28

You've got to be really speedy with it. But um, but I guess if you got someone like yeah, and if if someone struggles enough, I suppose, then you can be like, alright, cool. They get a bit like freaked out in that position, you can kind of capitalize on it.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

But um the kicks, I think, is what I struggled with the most. Uh I had poor hip flexibility, uh, and I just struggled with kind of the the movement. Um because I did these things called the daily updates or Patty Updates. Yeah, I saw those. Yeah, I was following along with those. Uh and Eugene um just rip into me and then um he's funny, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

He's very he's very, very funny, man. Um he's he always cracks me up because like he takes some of the sessions I've done and he'll have like this like kind of very um how would I say this very stoic like martial arts kind of I don't know, he's got this kind of like I said the kids say the aura, you know? And then he'll just switch and just fucking start swearing at you until you're a piece of shit. And I'm just like he's got these kind of like two um personalities almost.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

On day three, he was like, um I I actually did well because it started off in jujitsu, and so I was thriving. Um I spent most of my time coaching and in the end, uh especially because I ended up injured for most of the training camp. Oh no. Um, but then he's just like, yeah, Patty was struggling today. And it's like, I think it's an intellect problem. I think he might be dumb. And this is the third day, like he doesn't actually know me at this point. I'm like, Jesus, he does not care.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

He's fucking funny, dude. He's great. I love um, I love that someone like him, like I think at the level that he, you know, obviously coaching some of the best fighters the world has ever seen, but he'll still do these uh amateur trainings, he'll take classes for like the Joe blogs, even that I go to and stuff. And I just think that's really cool. Because I think I don't know, I would just imagine if you get yourself to that level, it's like, eh, I can just pay other coaches to come and take these, you know, classes of the Joe blogs or the amateur fighters or something. You could easily step away from it, but I love that he doesn't and he finds it important to be a part of it. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

I saw him say on um on something where he's like, It's fortunate that I've made the money I have through essentially through Izzy, but he's like, I'd be doing this whether I was uh it made me rich or not, anyway. So that kind of uh leads to show that he's there doing it because he loves it. Uh just the coaching in general, watching people grow. Uh and I mean isn't that what we should all aspire for? Kind of thing. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Yeah, I mean it's just such a wild um there's one thing about coaching and that, but then it's like the lifestyle of all the travel.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

Oh, I do not know how he does that. Because he's got like four kids, yeah, a wife. Um there's a fight night on every w weekend all around the world, uh, and in the last three months, like the amount of fighters I've had in the UFC has been insane. So I don't know how he does it. I would love to ask him. I would actually I would love to sit down with his wife and ask, like, kind of how how it all works and stuff like that. Um a lot of discipline and sacrifice. 100%. But so he does come home, I know, like he'll come home for a day, I think, for that reason, like to see the family, spend time with the family uh before he flies out. Because like, say, like Mike Angove, he is with them full fight week and all that sort of stuff. Like Carlos, they were in Vegas for two weeks before the fight, whereas Huge will fly three, four days before the fight. He's um spends most of his time in New Zealand, flies last minute.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah, just to kind of clean up some bits and I guess go over the fight plan or and the strategy, yeah. And there's also all the watching you have to do of all the other fighters and all the tapes you gotta watch and break down each fighter and strategies. I mean, it's like every day.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

We'd be doing our Ultra training, and he was who was coming up? I think it was was it Izzy's fight? No, because this was Izzy fought this year. Oh, he was watching Armand footage because Dan's fight was coming up. And um, so he was just re-watching Almond fights on his phone while we were all training, and then at this point I was injured, so I wasn't on the mats with people. Uh and so I was just watching him re-watching the same fights. He was like, You're watching that yesterday. Uh so yeah, obviously they're just watching at like half speed, like trying to see. No, I think when you watch it again and again, you watch at regular speed.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Oh, true. Yeah, because it's just like I've sometimes slowed down, like just for my own entertainment, I just like slow down the fights. I'm like, how did they get that? Like, what did they say about that little feint? And you're like, ah damn, that's cool. But I didn't you in the fights like it's so quick.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

That's like the um when Izzy knocked out Padada. Yeah, it's like he caught him with that quick jab that stunned him first, and like if you can miss it, if you like, because you just like you see him like that and then you hit hit him with the hook, yeah, and then you're like, oh well what what happened there?

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, those little micro by that's the thing, it's just it's like little moments that you gotta try and keep up with. Um

Surprises And Politics In The UFC

SPEAKER_01 32:11

speaking of uh with the UFC, has there been any uh surprises this year, in your opinion, in the weight divisions, some of the movements in the UFC weight divisions?

SPEAKER_02 32:20

I guess Josh Hockett being the top five um is quite surprising. Now very quick movements. Uh I mean he's doing all the right things, love him all love his character or not, like he's kind of doing a kind of Colby Covington sort of deal. Yeah. Uh but like movement isn't a surprise, like that was the magic of the UFC back in the day. It was back in the day being like late 2010s, where it was very much um the best fight the best. And whereas with boxing it was all political, and but where at the UFC Um if someone lost they weren't written off, uh they could always come back. Um, it was the best versus the best. And um, I dare say it's not like that anymore. It's gotten political. Uh fighters are now being like, Well, I'm not fighting that person, blah blah blah. Especially like you hear you hear the stories of it happening with champions. Um so there's less surprises now, I find, because of that nature. Um like I guess uh like an example with Jamal Hill when he was ranked seven, number seven, he was fighting for the title. Um I didn't really know who it was before then, and then he was a champion. Yeah, uh Glover, that's right. Yeah, etc. That w that whole story was crazy because it was like vacant title, um Yeri won it, uh beating Glover, and then got hurt, vacated the title. Um Glover won it off Yarn, sorry, and then Yeri won it off Glover, Yeri vacated, then it was Jarn versus Ankalaya, which was a draw, so no one won it, and then it was um uh so then it went back to Glover. Glover got a title shot against Jamal Hill because the the armed division was vacant. So um in situations like those where we see it goes deep, and then you kind of think people who aren't quite ready they get a title shot and they do it. So like Leon Edwards knocking out Ozman sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

That was like whoever had managed a one in a million put a bet on that. Who would have ever seen that coming? He was losing.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Yeah, yeah, he was like dominated. Where he was like, um you need to come alive or whatever, and then just boom, cracks him and oh man, left switch kick. And I just feel like we don't get moments like that as much anymore. Yeah. Just the fights, yeah, I guess. But um any surprises, surprises. You know what? Alberg's knockout.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Okay. Yeah. Um I wasn't, I'm not gonna Okay, the way obviously having the fractured HCL and stuff, sure, but I guess that's where the surprise comes from. Yeah, like uh that part. The knockout with a hook, I'm not surprised.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

100%. But when the knee went and we all saw it and it said, You're like, this fight's over. Yeah. Um you kind of start when you see an injury like that, you ride off the injured fighter, and um yeah, and then he just did not count himself out and he stayed locked in, and then um obviously Yeri made mistakes and all bird capitalised, and that's what it's about. And uh I've only I think gotten up and screamed at the TV twice, and that was the second time I did it.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

I just couldn't believe what I was watching. I like blinked twice, so I was like, Did it happen? Like, especially like because I thought it was gonna take a few rounds to get there, but yeah, and then Yuri will have kind of had a lot of uh things to say afterwards about why it didn't go his way, but I'm like, Nah, looks like it's me, we're just playing with your food and you're getting cocky.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

And he always seemed like the kind of guy who would take a loss on the chin. And so for him to be acting like that, elect acting like this, and like it's been strange to me.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yeah, it's not good for his um, how would I say, social credit, yeah, as we call it. He's got a lot to spare, to be fair. He does. I mean, here's some of his fights he's been in are just the most like it's just chaos, it's just fucking chaos. But the problem is then with someone like Carlos, is like if you get chaotic with someone like Carlos, it's like he's just looking for you to do something wrong. And if you're a chaotic fighter, they're just gonna wait, and then they attack, and then that's it.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Well, that's kind of what I love about Yuri and DDP is the other one where they'll be losing a fight for three, four rounds, and then they're like, Alright, time to win.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yeah, yeah, I yeah, DDP's a classic one. I uh DDP as champ was good. People gave him a lot of shit, but I don't know why, but I I quite liked him just because you just don't know what he's gonna pull out of the box, he's just gonna and some of his techniques were just like, What have you what are you just headbutting for? Strickland hitting him in the head.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Yeah, and um because I just listened to your Jackie Chen interview, and you guys you guys were talking about DDP in that as well. Um and yeah, he's just like when when he ended the Chamayo fight, he got ragdob for five rounds, and then they set it up at the end, and then he like got Chamayo's back.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

I'm like, Is he is he about to do it?

unknown 37:11

Is he about to do it?

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Subs Chamaya, um and that's what's great about him though, is his interviews because no one can figure him out, and that's honestly fair play. Just lean into that because if you don't if you're um but the thing is like for example, like Izzy, like an amazing, great, incredible, and the best ever, but the style is very you know, it's it's there's so much footage, everyone's seen so many tapes, it's a style that people have copied and tried to emulate. Um, you know, as much as Izzy could mix it up more, he does kind of you know fall back on his fundamentals, and it's like you kind of know what he's gonna go for. One thing at the moment, like I when I watch some of his fights I have noticed him do, which again may be costing him the fights, is trying to get in the fire a bit much. I don't know if he's like trying to be like, yeah, I'm gonna get the knockout or I'm gonna whatever, because he was always the tact the technical, tactical, like you know, go the whole five rounds, piece, take people up peace people apart, kind of thing. And he was so good at it. Whereas when the Joe Pfeiffer fight, I just saw him trying to jump in the fire, and I'm like, but that's I don't know if you you're that you're you're really the dude just can do that.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

It's interesting you say that, because if you look at his biggest knockouts of all time, both um because his style is so his height advantage in the middleweight division, um, he doesn't exit the pocket, he leans back.

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Uh and that's why everyone backs on it to the fence because then he can't lean back. And um but uh Paula Costa and Robert Whitaker, the first one, all of them were in the pocket, kind of he leaned back um and then caught them with a with a counter hook. So um yes, he's kind of been the tactical person, but he does kind of he has been known to stand in the pocket. Um it's certainly like this is this is the thing with aging fighters, right? It's uh losing the aging, your body aging is unavoidable, and the body does slow down, and the obviously the lighter the weight division, the more speed is related. That's why these like heavyweight fighters can fight into their forties because it's not as relevant. No, uh, and he has been a very much speed guy. Uh and then and the frustrating thing is like if everyone is just like, oh Izzy's wash, blah blah blah. Like you go back and watch these fights and you don't just look at the record, it's like he's winning most of these fights until he loses. So his losing's not because of like he doesn't have it anymore, or um it's they're all like decision-based. Like you just kind of you have to make quick decisions in the uh in the moment, and uh it you make the wrong decision, and like with DDP, he got he showed his back, boom, yeah, Reneka choke. With um the five for one, it's what ultimately where he got stuck, he got out of it the first time uh and where he got his knees underneath him, uh, but the second time he got flattened out. So it's like instead of like going into guard um and rotting on his back, he exposed his back and then he got flattened out. So but that is the um kind of that's what I've learned about the d difference from jujitsu to um MMA is it's easier to get up by exposing your back and getting onto all fours in MMA, whereas in jujitsu it's do not show your back. Do not show your back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Yeah, true. No, it's interesting. That's interesting. No, I'd I I agree. I think um I haven't I haven't watched any of the old Izzy fights in a bit, but um I think yeah, it's just just those recent ones are just just unfortunately get caught and I mean fuck. It's just um it's like I was trying to say it's like it's just you just get caught. It's just like you can just get caught at any time. That's what's the beauty and the scary part of this boys. 100%, yes, hundred percent. Um yeah. Um

Next New Zealand Names To Watch

SPEAKER_01 40:57

any um upcoming fighters in New Zealand you're really excited about at the moment could be on the local circuits because you also talk to a lot of guys on the local ones, but it could be guys just against the UFC or whatever, so um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Um one who has just got his break is a guy named Ollie Schmidt. He's fighting tonight. He's got a last minute call up to replace uh Jack Jenkins. So he's actually fighting after Brando Pericich, and this is his debut. Alright, well I fucking definitely chose uh so main card starts at 11, by the way. It's gonna be a late one tonight. Let's go, let's go. Uh so I'm so excited. So Ollie Schmidt is one. Um where like it's funny because if you say like who would I be expecting like to make the USD next, he wouldn't have been the person I said. Um and the kind of person I'm expecting a guy named Fergus Jenkins, who's been uh ripping it on the local scene. Um I definitely think he's next in line.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

I he's from Christchurch, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've I've heard lots of uh things spoken about him, so that's exciting. Case of Murdoch, uh Freestyle Meme in Australia, he's a New Zealand boy, uh he's on the road to UFC. So he is um just like Aaron Toe and Lawrence Louie. They uh if he gets through to the end, um wins the final, he'll have a UFC contract. And he definitely has the ability to do it. He's uh on a tear on the local scene. He's a champion at Hex, I think. Uh who are the Miyoke brothers, Mayoki brothers. There's a couple Australian boys that fight out of CKB.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yeah, they're um they're unbelievable. Um I've said on here before, but I did I did the sparring course at CKB and they put you up against the fighters at the end. I had Brody and fuck man. I fucking almost huh? Should have given you Hambo shout out, Hambo. You're the man the lead the man, the myth, the legend, Hambo. I love Hambo, bro.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

I got the Patty Update idea from her. Oh, did you? You know how Eugene would do the Hambo update.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

That guy's so funny, man. Super nice guy, too. Oh man, but um anyway, yeah. I um I went against Brody, and that was um Did you pass? I was uh I passed, I didn't die. I literally uh yeah, let's just say the guy he fought beforehand, he took out, and I was like, holy fucking shit. Why have I chosen to do this? I should have just stuck with doing tennis or something. And I get in there and then uh I was yeah, I was I did okay. I didn't I I survived, but I got swept. I felt like such a useless I was like, I didn't I don't know anything. I know nothing. I was just getting completely paced up by this dude, and I was and this is just striking. I think he's also he's incredible at the ground as well. And I was like, Yeah, Brady's a brown belt. I'm I'm just gonna get I was in there, I'm like, all right, Scott, let's just survive, let's not get knocked out, let's just make sure that we like just keep our eyes open and keep the hands up. Scott, don't drop those hands when you throw the kicks. I kept like throwing the kicks, and I was like, Yeah, and I'm like, oh no, the chin.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

So was the sweep more of like a Muay Thai sweep?

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Yeah, yeah, getting the clinch, and then I think he would I mean he could it's just what I felt like I felt like an open book. Everything I was doing, it's like there's a response, he had a counter, and I again it's just I'm not there like training like that every day. So yeah, but I just like when I was in that moment, I'm just like I've got no fucking chance. The only chance I've got is just making sure I can just survive and that's it. But it was a cool as experience, but um, yeah, I'm I'm not gonna lie, I'd kind of almost shit my pants before I got on there. Getting the cage for real, bro. Getting a cage for real. I know one day, I think um I will yeah, never say never. I mean that's the closest I've gotten. I've done lots of sparring and stuff, but um, and then jits and that, which um some yeah uh but I haven't done like a full-on MMA fight. But again, it's just like it's just time, bro. Like, you know, as if I want to do it, like I'm keen to go all in, but it's like sadly, um have to make money.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Well, that's the whole thing with like people were like, Would you do it again? And I'm caught where I what like the whole point was to simulate a um a fighter's experience. Like

Why Patty Filmed His Fight Doco

SPEAKER_02 44:56

I don't think we touched on this before, but the only reason I did alter was to put myself in the shoes of a fighter. Yeah to simulate what their lifestyle as much as possible to give me a um point of perspective, uh to give a bit of more depth to my interviewing, and but also I documented the entire thing. Uh, had a cameraman work with me, a guy named Will Slingsby, uh, amazing guy, shoots nav stuff. Um, there's a cameraman for Varna as well. He's in the States of Torah with with her at the moment. Oh awesome. Um Bakery runs as well, he's half of that.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Uh so I wouldn't be doing it without him, and then we're working on it at the moment, and by we I mean me, and it's going incredibly slow. But the yeah, and then so the other idea was to you know how like when you watch the Olympics and you're like, man, they need to put a regular person in for reference. Right. Um, like say running the 200 meters. Oh yes, uh, to show how spectacular these people are. So I've put myself in the life of a fighter for reference to show how hard the life of a fighter is. Yep. Um so I feel like it's hard for a person to relate to a fighter because they are kind of crazy. So having a regular person who's like, oh man, I'm about to get punched in the face for the first time, and it's not fun getting punched in the face. Um maybe a bit easier for people to relate. So that's the idea behind the content.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

I think it just makes it so much more credible when you talk about things as well. Like when you're like a squared up MMA, uh, you're talking to fighters and that and you ask questions, it not just it just improves your overall uh you know questioning that you do for them, and then also it just improves your knowledge, and then people respect, like, oh, you've actually done the thing, you've actually been in the ring, you actually experienced it. It holds a lot more weight, I think. So, yeah, man. I mean, what on to you, bro? It's it's crazy. It's six days a week, six a.m. starts and shit. Like, that's the game, but it's tough.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

One broken toe, one torn ankle, one broken thumb later. And you paid for it.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

That's always the thing that I laugh at.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Or that's the thing, that's like um I probably I don't publicize it too much, but because I'm doing the project, they did let me do it for free.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Oh, well, that I mean that's cool, but I would say that yeah, um, regardless of that, like even then you're do it you're hurting yourself for free.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Yeah, everyone and then everyone else is paying for it.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

You're paying you're paying three grand to um. Oh bro, I've rolled on the mats and I've gotten staff and I'm like mean, like, love this. Yeah, off we go to uh yeah, White Cross and figure this out. Like, cool. But I mean it is amazing. I mean what but I mean that's the thing, like in life, when are you gonna get in a I mean hopefully you in on the streets and stuff you don't get in those situations, but you're just actually locked in a cage with someone. I mean that is just so fucking mental, but it is very primal and it kind of relates back to who we are as humans. It's like I don't know, it's like the most pure form of like I don't know, humanity in a sense.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Well that's kind of why I like enjoy fighting in general, because it's like you go back over the the centuries and the millennia, it's like gladiators and all that, and that's just like fighting has kind of always been the thing that transcends cultures because like if everyone can fight, like and all the different styles that people come up with to fight and what's native to different countries of how they fight, like it's just so fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

But it's just it's a real like like I'm just really drawn to it because of that just real human element, like it's just so it's as raw as it gets, you know. Because um, and as much of it as much of it's physical and much of it's mental. Like you've got to be mentally tough. I had a few guys on here. I think the most there's been some funny ass mindsets on there. One of my favorites was um uh Sharan Drummond. He won King of the Ring, lightweight titles. Um Golden Boy, yeah, golden boy, yeah, yeah. He's funny as, but his mindset is just unfucking beatable. Like he's just like he will like go and like have a weekend out or something almost like the Iliadaporia style, and just like, but then he's just he just says, like, oh I I just can't lose. And I'm like, is that it? And he's like, that's it. And I'm like, oh wow. I had Tyrell um Karakar in here, and he says, like, kill or be killed, that's how I think.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

And I'm like, wow, yeah, that's definitely how you have to think when you're once you're in there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

And um that's done him really well, and talks about the manifesting of like his different stages of his career and getting the titles, and I'm like, Well, yeah, I mean, that's what you gotta do. You could call it being delusional, but because you're in such a crazy dangerous sport, like you kind of have to be like that. I mean, how else do you uh I guess yeah, be able to achieve what you want to achieve? You have to have like a completely like unbeatable mindset as well as the physicalities behind it.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

I um I've got a funny story about Tyrell where I was waiting to go into some event at um event finder stadium and I was online with his dad. And then we're just yarning, I'm like, Oh, you must be proud of your son, blah blah blah. And he's like, Oh, more of a rugby fan. Obviously, he is proud of his son, like he's there to watch him fight, but like his dad, I think, wished um he went down the rugby route.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Yeah. Yeah, that's oh that's funny. Yeah, uh, he had a fight at the last um uh King of the Ring and went to the crew, the super cruiser wait. Oh, yeah, one of the the one-off super fights. Yeah, that was that was a tough fight. But that was that was really cool to see Tyrell back in there and there. He's yeah, I reckon he's gonna do really well. He's got a lot going for him, eh? But um, yeah, another one in the in the local scene who's also someone to watch.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Yeah, on the local scene, Jack uh with the four people who were just um Jack Cameron should be going pro soon. He's exciting to watch. Um kind of the other the other thing that I kind of strive to do that, I don't do as well as I I would wish sometimes because of time limitations and stuff, but CKB gets a lot of limelight. Uh just because just because of the US CPU.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

I mean, like it's because of I mean you let's just be real, it's kind of because of Izzy, right? Yeah, I mean he's so famous, he's probably in the top ten most famous New Zealanders, would be saying. Yes, top 15, maybe maybe top 15, top 10, top 10. I'd say top 10. Top ten, right? And then I guess because of all what he's done, and then CKB has just got and then also you've had, you know, I mean, how many guys have gotten titles or have got into you know the fighting for titles? I mean, you've also got obviously Kai who fought, unfortunately lost, but yeah, he twice, he had two shots. He had two shots, right? But he got there, you know what I mean? You know, and it's like I guess you had so many people who got to the highest level of the sport. It's like, well, fuck this gym's doing something right. Not to say that other gyms New Zealand can't get there, they definitely can, but it's just yeah, like the media, the hype behind it, and you know, it's so famous around the world. I I remember I was at CKB and I had a guy from America come. He's like, Oh, I'm here to be at the f and this is actually with the old gym, which the new gyms are much bigger. Yeah, the old gym was pretty dingy, bro. Um, you know, but I had a lot of character. Let's yeah, a lot of character. But I had a guy coming in and he's just I'm here, like the f you know, like come to this jujitsu class, I'm here to be at this famous CKB gym. And I'm like, man, what you what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 51:28

Yeah, yeah, you're like, man, like these guys they have a world champion. Why is this kind of like that now they've got all the new gym equipment? It's actually looking pretty flash on the new gym now.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Oh, that made that um, yeah. I was at the old gym in Mount in Mount Eden for a bit and um like man, it was that's humble, bro. Humble.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

And you you kinda gotta be, like, you can't that that's the whole thing about the cool thing about fighting is if you don't stay grounded, that's when kind of the problems start coming. And like say too flash, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:56

Like if yeah, I'd I'd agree with that. Because at the end of the day, it is it's it's gr it's a grimy, grunty sport. You have to be in the in the nastiness of it. It's not like it's not just picking flowers or you know, playing badminton or something. I don't know. I don't think like a another example where you can kind of just kind of you get a little bit of a sweat, but you're kind of just, you know, you know, you don't have someone trying to essentially near death experience. Um maybe that's something else I think will draws people to the sport in some way. Where else are you gonna get pushed so far where you literally are on the in a sense, unless the riff stops the opponent from beating you, when are you gonna go have an experience where you're having like a near-death experience? You're getting choked out to a point you're falling asleep, but obviously if they keep going or do something else, you can die. You know what I mean? Like, I do think about that when I watch the sports sometimes. I'm just like, how close are these guys at times, especially when someone gets knocked out and there's repeated headshots and something else? Like, how close is it?

SPEAKER_02 52:54

There's an enormous amount of trust in like that. The person's gonna release the sub or the ref is gonna stop in time. Yeah, but I'm also I think you you go in like obviously that could happen, but you go in thinking you're gonna do that to the other person. Of course. Yeah. Uh I mean yeah, my li my week going my fight week, it was like, man, the doubt starts creeping in, eh? And you're just like, nah, like you can't let it in.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Um did you eventually like for you when you went into your ultra fight, did you eventually just go like fuck it? I'm just gonna have a good, I'm just gonna have a good time. Or did you or were you were you like really serious about it? Because I feel like I don't know, if it was my someone like myself, I'd be like, ah, let's just go have fun. If I get beaten up, fuck it.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

It's cool it's funny where like you go in thinking that and it's just like I'm gonna go in and just I can just I can only do my best. That's all I can do. Uh and then we ended up being the main event. Like you find out where you're fighting the night before. Um it's like the big like uh they do the face-offs and announce the thing, and we just didn't get our um our names called for ages. It's like first ten, second ten, uh second uh first first anyway. 20 fights in thirty uh there was twenty-eight fights, twenty-five fights in, it's like shit, we're gonna be in the final three, and then we're the headliner. Um and then because we were training partners the entire time, the guy I fought. Um I actually caught up with him this morning.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Oh me.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

Um we ended up being really good mates, and then we had to fight each other. Uh so that kind of added another level of difficulty because it's like you're not going in there like because you you train with the person, yes, the program, and you know that going in. And um and so then when it's your mate that you're standing across from, and like you're now going to have to hurt them because they're gonna be trying to hurt you, like you said, kill or be killed. And uh so it's funny how just knowing like ultimately nothing had changed. It was just I thought it was gonna be somewhere in the middle, and now I'm the last fight, everyone's gonna be drunk by the time I come out, everyone's gonna be tired because it's like a five-hour fight night. Yeah, uh, it's enormous, and so especially it's also challenging because we you train at 5 30 in the morning for 20 weeks.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Like what, 11 at night?

SPEAKER_02 55:05

I walked out after 11 o'clock for my fight. Complete counterlate, yeah. My partner, my um opponent was like, we're gonna be fighting the sleeping bags. I'm already tired. This is my bedtime. Um but I mean the anxiety and the fear and the excitement of knowing you're gonna do that, it definitely like keeps you awake. Yeah, like you know you're not getting tired before um before you know you're about to get your head punched in.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

But um what was the question again? Uh it was just essentially like um I I think what what what actually I don't even remember what we're talking about the first time.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Because I was about to talk about how um as media I kind of because you asked about the fighters.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Oh, yeah, it was it was just about like your experience of Ultra and then obviously a better questioning and experience because of having the fight and uh what you've learned, which is just so guldo. Like you get that's why you can go into I think because who else has done the uh the Mac Life? Uh what's his name? Um Oscar Willis. Oscar Willis, because he's done fights as well.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

And I think three three different fights. He's an MMA, he did bear knuckle, and then he did this weird bear one.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

Oh, yeah, that's right. I saw yeah, I saw the I saw the bare knuckle one. I was like, he's nuts. But I was like he's genuinely nuts as a person, anyway. Like we're I've had a lot to do with him. Uh he seems like a good time. I've seen him at the gym. I've got a photo. I'm like, hey bro, I saw your stuff. Okay. But he seems like a cool dude, but I'm just but I'm also just like, yeah, I think you're definitely made for this, though. Sometimes you can just tell with some of those guys. You're like, thank God you found whatever this is.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

Um full send, Sean uh McDonald. He he's had fights before, um, and that's about it. Um I think Ravinda from Sky here in New Zealand, she's had a fight as well. Oh, really? Otherwise, not many people have done it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Uh that makes such a I think that just makes such a difference. Even if you just had one, you know, one that's like you already kind of know you had the full training camp, you see all everything, so for sure. No, that levels it up, man. So that's awesome. Um let's have a look. Um what else made me. Oh, yeah, I I really enjoyed the interview you did with um I saw a bit of it. Actually, you didn't see all of it, but some of it, like the video game interview with Cam Relston. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I enjoyed that. We were meant to do one before his fight coming up, but we ran out of time.

SPEAKER_02 57:13

And he actually reached out to me so he wanted to throw another one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

That's fun. Man, I mean it's just nice to do things that are different. He's um and he's good at Halo.

SPEAKER_02 57:23

Well, I haven't burst some one-on-one yet, so I don't actually know if he's any good. Ah, okay. Um ironically that I'm wearing the my Halo shirt today. Um but the he's always gonna have a very special uh connection to me and the MMA stuff because he was my first interview ever. Like four squared up, like my lot first sit-down long form. Uh he was about to fight on the first so he technically had three attempts at contender series. First one didn't happen. Um yeah, yeah, I remember this. And then the second one he lost, and then obviously he won by KO on his third.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

Uh so the fucking tear cam went on after that second one was absolutely insane. He just made everybody look, he got a calf slicer on, like, was it an eternal card? Uh was it eternal or was it here? Uh no, I thought it was SFL. Was it SFL maybe? I can't remember. But yes, he got a calf slicer, yeah. And then he got like another knockout or something, I think. Um I can't remember, but I just like damn cam. Like because he's also um coaches a bit CKB, so I've got to know him a bit. And um I just like his his lit his fight IQ is just like and you watch him fight, and I'm like, I don't know how anyone's gonna beat this guy. I don't know, because he's just I don't know. I just it's just I guess because also I've spent time with him a little bit and I've been taught by him, yeah, and how he explains things and how technical he gets. And he is explaining the calf slicer he's done and like hitting the right bone point. I'm just like, fuck, bro. Like, how do you fuck with someone like this? He's just like so down to the detail.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

He could probably be a doctor. And the thing with him is he's like not new into combat sport. Like his career in kickboxing before he made the transition to MMA is enormous, two-time King of the Ring champion. Um yeah, we'll glaze him up, bro. Yeah, he deserves it. He moved to New Zealand to train at CKB. Like, he's been in the I okay, I'm gonna pull the number 10 years out of my ass, but uh he's been here a long time, long enough where I say he's I've I think I I think I asked him that. Can we call you a New Zealand fighter? Um no, I said that to Brody, but I would like I would claim him as a New Zealand fighter for.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

I know he's been here for so long, I guess, right? Yeah. I will it's interesting with some of the guys, because another guy from Australia, I had him on here a while ago, um, Adam, um smiling assassin, but unfortunately he's had a few injuries, but he um came here just because of like the CKB, essentially. I think he was really drawn to it. But I'm like, man, Australia's got such a wealth of amazing gyms and different things, but it's interesting when guys come specifically to obviously CKB or New Zealand. It's interesting, eh? I don't know, there's such a so many great gyms in Australia. It's like uh yeah, it's um why would interesting that you want to choose you're drawn to New Zealand. That's quite interesting that you want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 59:59

And they have a bigger local scene in Australia as well. It's massive, yeah. Obviously, uh Eternal MMA and Hex series, yes. Eternal is probably the best route into the UFC just because their fight pass connection.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

I've heard people say that with um some like I know some comments or people talk about how with Eternal it's such a good promotion that I think they need to kind of uh separate themselves a bit from the UFC because right now, like if it's the gateway, and it's like wow, the promotion's so good, so many great fighters from there, like I'm sure I mean it's still just Australia, I guess, but and I guess it's hard to compete, but I guess I kind of agreed with the comment of like they should back themselves more, I think, rather than being like, Oh, you do this and then you do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

It's like I guess it's kind of like when you're not an international um say promotion in the sense where there is a cap to the level of your um range, I guess I'm not sure I'm not doing the best at articulating it, but they definitely are a like a stepping stone in a stage of a career where there is an international stage, and the international stage is PFL, UFC, one. Uh and essentially everything else under that is regional and a stepping stone. It's like if if you can't do it as a career in that level, in that um at that level, I guess it's kind of you aren't the end all be all.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Yeah. Um what else I got for you?

Trust With Fighters And Hard Questions

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

Um, has anybody been nasty to you while you've interviewed them? Nasty or nice? Nasty. Nasty.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

Ooh. Everyone's been pretty pretty silly. Like 'cause um usually kind of like you had a back and forth with them beforehand, like leading up to the interview. Uh that's a great question. I don't think so. I mean, because I'm quite a personable guy, I think. Uh so um I think I'm pretty good at getting people to like lower their their walls and stuff like that, and get some good good um responses from people. Uh maybe like maybe at the UFC, like in a media scrum, uh I remember it's not nasty, but um at the UFC 284, uh Izzy came out and talked um like occasionally during the fight, they'll have someone who has an upcoming fight, and he had just lost a potato, and um he talked about taking time off to recover. And so I was kind of my questions had been stolen, so I tried to pivot one of my questions, and then I was just m I was genuinely asking to see how he was with his injury, and he was baiting me to keep asking so he could shut me down because he likes to shut down media, and um he was just like yep, and then it was a silence, and then everyone laughed and I was like, Oh I was not expecting a one-answer um question, but no, I don't think anyone has ever been um uh ever been nasty.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

The I mean it'd be kind of detrimental for some guys to do that, I suppose. It doesn't make their career look that great, but I guess it's like I don't know, after you've had those fights and stuff, and then I guess you come in and people be like, why'd you lose? It's just like fuck off even I'd be like, yeah, fuck up.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

I mean I also try to be as respectful as possible as well to maintain these relationships with the fighters, and I guess the way I've kind of looked at it is I want to get deep with them and like talk about like the losses and stuff, but you gotta build a trust and rapport first, yeah. And you almost have to do that through the whole industry before and become a recognized person where people are like, Oh, when I talk to this person, I know they're not gonna misrepresent something I say, uh take it out of context or twist it. Exactly. So um then I can start pushing on those things, like for example, Aaron Toe missed weight um and fucked his UFC chances. Um, I would love to talk to him about what happened there and in a respectful way. Like I just was I would love to know like look what happened. Obviously, there's cheating accusations there. Um I have my own theories of what was going through his head. But then you don't know until you hear it from the horse's mouth. And um and I'd love to have like honest conversations with people about this, but quite often you don't get that honest conversation until they're removed from the um the industry.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

They're not in the organization anymore, yeah, and they're not related to it, trying to get something from it. Oh, 100%. It's like you don't ask someone what they think of a company while they work there.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

Yeah. Uh and also like there's like I I will avoid saying certain things about the UFC or give opinions because uh the UFC a um I feel are critical to what I'm trying to do, and I I do want to stay on the good side.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

Uh and people get get shitty at um media because they're not asking the hard questions and stuff like that. And uh I guess like you can look at people like uh Luke Thomas or Ariel Ariel Hawani who they've reached a level where they can get the access to these people without the UFC's help and that sort of stuff, and you once you at a certain level you can kind of start being more critical because um you're less dependent on the access and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Sure, you've established such a name for yourself now that you don't need the big organization behind you as much. Your name carries enough. Yeah, that's true. I think that is something to like it's always a hard one, I suppose, even from like a personal brand point of view, right? It's like you kind of do need that push from an organization, even with media or whatever you're trying to achieve. I think even in like lots of things. I mean, you kind of need it for a bit, but then uh I guess yeah, fake it till you make it. Well, that's the other thing. Like I w Not too much, but I guess like you just you you gotta kinda know like what I'm trying to like what am I trying to get out of like, you know, with what you're doing, for example. Oh, I need the UFC for a bit, but maybe at some point you build it up so much you can be like, oh, I can just kind of invite these guys, they know who I am already. I'm already in the conversation of guys you talk to about combat sports or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

Yeah, and it's like the it's interesting, like when you come up with people who are more passionate um at something than you.

Passion Without Chasing Numbers

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

So say there's a channel called Southern Cross Combat. A good friend of mine. I have heard of uh that channel. Um his name's Joel uh Rasmussen. He actually came over to watch my fight, close very close friend, and um he is incredibly passionate, his workload um output is insane. Uh and this is a hobby for me. Like uh I do it because I'm passionate about it, but I don't treat it like a job because I don't want to lose the passion for it. So that's why my posting patterns are all inconsistent, and I pick and choose projects and stuff like that, because I don't want to force it because I want it to last long and I want to enjoy it, whereas I don't want to suddenly start burning out because it's like I started treating it like a job and I got too attached to the numbers. Um I think I feel like because I listened to your Jackie Chen one, and I feel like it was the perfect interview for me to listen to because some of the stuff he was talking about I resonated with so much about like on the social side of things, about getting too attached to the numbers. And I feel like if you get to that point, you should stop doing it. If if it's not the process that you're enjoying and you're loving, like would you still be doing it if no one was watching your stuff?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:28

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:29

Uh and then on the flip side of that, with the when it's talking about the fighting stuff, and he's just like, Yeah, you you don't really remember a whole lot of your fight, you're so focused on the present moment and so what's coming next, blah blah blah. You're not retaining information. So it's funny that with my own fight, going back and watching it, is like how much of the fight is what I remember from being in there, and how much is what from people have told me they saw when they watched, and from me watching the fight um back. It's it's super strange.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:54

And also like how how good you might have thought you looked. Oh man, it's I remember um not another fight, but I someone videoed some sparring I was doing, and I was like, Yikes, that is bad. But I imagine watching, I had a I met a guy and um I went to a wig a wedding wedding not too long ago, and he'd done Ulta like quite a few years ago, and he was like, Yeah, man, like rewatching my fight, and he like showed me some bits of his fight, and everything just looks real slow. But I'm just like, Yeah, I mean that's that's that's your first one, right? Like, yeah, you're not gonna come out all like looking great. Well, I mean, I think I've actually been gassed up a little bit. Like, I've shown I haven't seen your full ones to watch it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:28

I can show you the second and third round. Uh I've got them on my phone. Selected. Which is it is selective because I got my hiding in the first round. Like, I very much the fight could have been ended in the first round. I got quite lucky that uh he made decisions, uh, didn't capitalise on certain things. Yeah, uh but the the fighters said like this is like surprisingly high level for an ultra fight. Like you were throwing straights, for example, like no one ever throws straights at amateur, it's all hooks, and um I was just coming straight down the pipe the whole time. Yeah, the big one twos, and um yeah, that double jab two was kind of yeah, yeah.

What A Fight Feels Like Inside

SPEAKER_02 1:09:02

It was a favourite. Yeah, well, because that was my strategy going in because I've had Spartan tons of times, and then he caught me that he he absolutely caught me and um in the first round, and I got it sent me flying because he caught me in a stance switch too. So I started tripping up over my own legs, and uh that was like the first time I'd ever been like really punched in the face. And the uh I I was doing a um uh double jab too, and he caught me on the way out. So it's like then that was my whole strategy for the fight, and then suddenly once you're in the fight and you've been caught badly, it's no longer just you versus your opponent, it's now you versus you versus your opponent. So like your body just stops responding how you think it's going to because like you say you you jab and you're going for the second one, you'll throw out the second one, but you won't take the step because you're like, I keep getting hit every time I do this, and you really gotta start forcing yourself to get into the firing line and stuff, because like you're not gonna catch them if you don't go into the firing line.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:03

You gotta put yourself you gotta risk it. Risk.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:06

Yeah, and uh so that was one of the most surprising things about the um the whole process of the fight itself was how much of um the mental battle it is when you're in there, and uh also how much you don't feel.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:21

Yeah, like you feel it, but you don't feel it. The adrenaline runs and they don't feel the the maybe the kicks as hard, or I don't know, maybe you get hit, punched, and then it's like, oh actually my sides really hurt.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:31

For example, my head would like snap back and I went like that and it didn't hurt. Like you feel the impact, and you know you got moved, but you're like uh. I was like, I gave him the nod and we carried on going, just keep going. And then I kicked him, he caught it, and he took me down straight afterwards, and then so um yeah, so that was kind of a very strange tangent to um all good question that you did ask.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:55

That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:56

But yeah, that was um man, I just keep distracting myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:00

No, it's all good. We're both kind of ADD up, ADD ing it up in here, but that's kind of what I do anyway. Um alright, I'll go a couple more for you. So um I've asked quite a few, you've kind of answered quite a few of these already. Like all to teach you about fires in the cage, you've kind of answered that, which has been great. Um difficult skills to learn. Um okay, out of all the fighters you've spoken to, this can also be on local or UFC, who's someone you've spoken to with like they have like the best mindset? Like the mindset they've got is just like unbeatable. And it's just so strong.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:35

So this is where obviously the conversations with the local fighters, you get to have longer conversations with them, and more regular ones, so you kind of get to know them and their mindsets a lot better. Um Brando Perich is one. Um I say that because he like I broke my toe in my training, first literal first sparring. Uh and kept training with it and then tore my ATFL on my other foot, and that took me out essentially up till the fight. I was lucky to fight. And he I was at the gym and um he said to me, Now that you've had the second injury, uh the metal battle, mental battle starts, because you're gonna want to be using those excuses. Um it's gonna be like I lost because of this. Uh and he just he said, uh, no, it's you won in spite of. And that kind of mentality and thinking thing was kind of really, really resonated and spoke to me, and I held on to that for the rest of the camp. It's like everything you're achieving is in spite of what happened, not the unfortunate things that are happening because of this. So that's kind of a um uh mentality like that I've kind of really appreciated. But who's kind of really stood out? Because what I kind of appreciate is when the fighter does acknowledge like the risk of losing and sort of stuff. Like it's and you now that you've I've had a fight, you kind of understand why it's an advantage to have this un um unyielding self-confidence thinking you're gonna go in and win, because it's exhausting doubting yourself because you have to keep telling yourself you can't think like that, you can't think like that, you can't think like that. And it just creeps in, like you're just driving home and it's just like, oh what if I get knocked out? Or um so the the people who the fighters who admit that and um work in spite of it and sort of stuff, uh not someone who I like I've spoken to him, but I no, he did say something, but I can't quite remember what it was, but blood diamond. Blood Diamond, obviously, oh yeah like three fights in the UFC, didn't go great, came out um been on fucking tear. Well he has been on tear now, but then even when he came out, got like knocked out in uh on hex 30, uh brutally knocked out, and then now then like essentially it was like kind of looking like he's at the end of the career, went on King of the Ring, three head kick knockouts, then went on Hex, um smashed it there, went on SFL, he's got another Hex fight coming up. Um the ability to like if that happened to me and like I reached the the top tier and then it just didn't go my way and stuff, I'd probably be like, Alright, hang on, hang on, hang on with the gloves, yeah. Uh but he's stuck with it, never doubted himself. Obviously, does it because he loves it? Uh, that kind of self-belief and perseverance. I guess that's kind of what I admire about Blood Diamond is the perseverance. Uh yeah, I think that's one of the questions I'm probably gonna be thinking about after this. I'm gonna be I'll message it to you, be like, hey, here's a voice note, put this in. Um that's a very interesting question, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:51

Yeah, because it's just such a again, we're spoken about this like a bit with something the local guys like it is a self-belief you've got to have. And it's like borderline delusional, but it's like but how else do you do it? There is no other way.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:04

That's that was one of the mindset, like the um light bulb moments I had when I was like doing my vlogs for the DOCO. I was like, uh, I now understand why you have to live, breathe fighting because you can't balance it with other stuff. Uh you can't um you have to be somewhat unhinged to do it because uh there's just the amount of uh disadvantage you're at if is if you doubt yourself. It's like that's why it attracts a certain kind of person and these certain kind of people excel in the sport. It's because it requires it. It's not because um uh yeah, I guess I'm not sure where I was gonna go with that one, but yeah, it it requires it. It's uh almost a necessity.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:50

Yeah, for sure.

Weird Places To Hold MMA Fights

SPEAKER_01 1:15:51

Oh dude, I'll finish up with one more uh little question just for a bit of fun. Um where else could we have an MMA competition? Like obviously we're in a ring, but I reckon we could make it exciting. Um I was speaking to another fighter on here. We're talking about um maybe we could have underwater MMA. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:09

Or maybe with scuba tanks, or would it be uh um just with a snorkel and mask or not even anything?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:15

I feel like scuba tanks would be the most appropriate, but that's gonna be a lot of oxygen. Well, that's another whole thing to worry about. That could be interesting. Um in space. In space, yeah. Yeah, or like or like no gravity, like no gravity.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:26

Okay, no grav no gravity is a bit more realistic. So I was gonna say like in space, like in the suits, or would you do it in the ship and no gravity? Probably.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:34

Let's go with no gravity. Yeah. That's cool. Or like uh, you know, like another one I spoke about on here was um like trampoline.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:40

Um that's another one.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:44

That's already a thing, seen that. But I was trying to think of like other ones because also uh phone booth boxing I've seen. Yes, yeah, yep, yep. Oh there are some creative ones. I feel like we I feel like that we we could make some more it could be other ones. I feel like they haven't been tapped into yet. Well, when you said underwater in space, I was like, that's the end of my imagination. I was like, we've done them all. I was talking about Zion Perry about these. He said I think he's keen for I think underwater would be alright, and I think he would do trampoline would be pretty cool. But I'd I feel like, yeah, there's a lot of like, yeah, I think trampoline would be pretty sick.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:15

That's someone else I can't wait to see how the MMA career goes. Uh Zion Perry. Unfortunate start. Um, I was very much looking forward to his light against Tumer Hewally on Shuriken, but Tummer got uh injured, and then he took obviously went on Eternal, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, obviously, when people King of the Ring pivot to MMA, they typically do quite well. So I've got um big expectations of Zion. But uh he's still pretty young as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:40

And that's an advantage. That's very much an advantage.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:42

But we're exciting fights, uh locations slash twists.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:46

Yeah, twists, yeah. I've have you seen blindfolded MMA? That's that that's a pretty crazy one.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:53

No, I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:54

That's uh it's a Russian one, of course. And they are all blindfolded in a ring and they just have to like find each other. They sell like complete opposite sides of the ring, and you just gotta find each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:04

Oh, and then do they like do they start and then they're like come in and then like oh man.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:08

Um oh gosh. I mean it's also like the the oh but that's it got quite big actually. There was a competition in New Zealand they had like the like the like the the suit and armor the sword and armor.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:21

Oh they did that at SFL. Yeah, SFL, yeah. Boo Hert um Medieval Fighting.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:25

What do they call it? Medieval Fighting or Boo Hert.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:28

So that the one that does it on SFL, the um that's dope. So I interviewed the the fighters that did it on the most recent one. Yeah, oh me. Uh and so that they just thought as a as a hobby. Like that's and then um because obviously it blew up on on online. Yeah, I saw that's fucking cool. So then the SFL was like, uh yeah, that's I actually think it was the CSN guys who had the idea. Um on the second one was when they did it first, and they did it again on this most recent one. So it's called Boo Hurt Medieval Fighting, I believe. Right. Uh man, that's another tough one that I think just requires thought. Uh and I like I do not think I'm a creative guy, eh? Like I'm very much like an in-the-box thinker. Uh it's all good. So you've already stumped me.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:16

There's just so many, like, but I guess we're fighting, you can just do so much on ice, like ice skating, MMA on ice. That could be something. Sounds like a musical, but but you know, you you you you I mean, ice hockey kind of gets pretty violent. So already, I mean that's probably not too hard of a thing to pivot to. Um I I have to come up with one before we finish. Uh one. Uh this is gonna be a five-hour podcast now. Me going uming and Ring. I'll I'll see if I can keep putting out ideas. Uh, what about like um MMA and like as you parachute? So like your free, like it's like free jumping MMA.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:49

See, it's funny because as you throw out these ideas, I'm such a practical thinker. I'm looking at why we kill you why we they wouldn't work, and I'm like, but what if they fall and die? Or what was the other one? The ice skate, it's like they'll kill each other with the blades on the bottom of the ice skates. It's like, no, no, no, it's not about the why nots, it's about the whys, um uh uh just gotta start being ridiculous. Um you do. That's what well, my brain's very easy to go there. Yeah, or okay, I'm gonna go off on that parachuting, um, no gravity, underwater. Uh let's keep going, keep going, keep going. Yeah, we had trampoline. We had trampoline. I really like that one. I really like trampoline, easily accessible, and you can still technically make an octagon. Yeah, you could. The height would be really high. Um, tangent on the zero gravity one. Have you seen the show? Uh I shouldn't remember the name of it because it's my favourite show. Uh Altered Carbon. Oh, I've seen I've I've seen like a trailer of it, but I haven't watched it. So there's a um they have zero zero gravity fighting in there, which is cool. Yeah, where they jump in and it's like a zero gravity field and everyone's around watching it. Uh so that's if they can make zero gravity like that, that's real cool. But they it's also to the death because um they have the the way the show works is like they have sleeves, yeah. So their soul is actually like a little thing in the back of the neck, so you can transfer bodies. Uh so you the body's replaceable, so that's why they can fight to the death because the winner gets a new sleeve. And uh so but we've done we've done zero gravity. Uh it's alright, bro. It's alright.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:23

We don't you want a finger one. You want a finger one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:28

Okay. I can't like that. I just feel like I'd be omitting defeat now. Yeah, okay. No, I don't want to I don't want to keep you here.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:33

So what about Bouncy Castle? I mean, that's one I could also do. I mean, like uh just pretend that I came up with that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:39

You can do Bouncy Castle, or you could do You can actually hire Bouncy Castle boxing ranks. Like in New Zealand, yeah. Oh uh that's a good party idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

Add it to uh Infinity Sleep, yeah, that'd be an adventure. Yeah, yeah. Um fucking yeah, that'd be fun though. Man, have a few beers and do that. That's good. Well, because obviously in Thailand they do the thing where you can jump in and um just jump in the ring. Yeah, that's fucking nuts. I told my missus, uh maybe I'd do that. She's like, no way, you're not doing that. But I'm like, I'll have alcohol, I wouldn't feel pain. Just do a full-on Mai Thai fight, and just and then it just ends up being like a local kid who just kills me, and I'm like, meme.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:18

Well, you and if you're like what if it's with your mates as well, like at least you know their level, especially if they don't train, you know there's not gonna be any kicks. Yeah, yeah. There's definitely no kicks. Yeah, imagine throwing kicks while you're pissed. Yeah, like there'd be no balance, and you just end up on the ground and your world.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:33

I think it's concerning me. Um I'm not I'm shit on the ground, bro. Um, uh, would be I think in those fights would just be you just don't know who you got. And then as soon as someone grabs me, I'd be like, fuck. Someone goes for a clinch, I'm like, fuck. And it comes in, yeah. Just vomit all over the ring.

Ads Streaming And UFC Sponsorships

SPEAKER_01 1:22:53

That's something else I watch like when I watch UFC and stuff, but then you just it's so funny. Like, I sometimes have a laugh to myself, like looking at all the sponsors everywhere, and then it's all covered in blood, and then you just see people on the ground, like, oh, like Modello covered in blood.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:08

The funny thing about like talking about like Modello, it's UFC will like the amount of liquor sponsors they've got is insane. But each one is like a perfect it's a kind of liquor, so like Modello's the bear sponsor, yeah, or it was anyway, because obviously the um Bud Light is back, yeah. But like um Quavo is like the tequila of the UFC, and then there's like they if it's a certain kind of liquor, they'll name that so it's that specific sponsor, so it gives them room to do another one.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:38

Uh it's just so many degenerate sponsors, man. Like, oh we've got to do crypto. Like, here's the one for crypto, and here's the one for gambling, and I'm like, mean.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:46

What about when when um they ran it or they're running ice ads? Oh, I didn't see those. That was um at the end of the um ESPN deal. Paramount hasn't run them. Um but like between those like running um ice recruitment route things, I'm like, Jesus! Yeah, that's intense.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:02

I'll be honest, there's Paramount shift. I mean, like, I I I don't pay for it. Um, and the reason why I don't is because all the ads, my gosh. Oh because all those ads, I wanna I don't understand. Like, I've if you paid for a service and then I'm now watching people walk out to a fight, and I'm like wanting to like you know, get an understanding of the environment and walking up, and then it's just some fucking ads coming up, or people are talking to their corners, and then a fucking ad for like a like a Range Rover comes up. But I thought we didn't have Paramount here. Um I think you can like you know, you can obviously just do VPN and do that like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:35

Well, because we've still got um obviously TVNZ Plus has the deal here, so you can watch Fight Nights for free. Yeah, yeah, but I'm talking about like the big cards and that.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:42

But let's I guess I guess I'm putting the perspective of if you are a Paramount subscriber in America or other parts of the world, I'm like, why the fuck would you?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:50

Well, you know who got absolutely fucked by that deal? The Australian fans. Uh so Fight Pass still works here as a source of um uh like you can watch the Fight Nights on there and then pay for the pay-per-view on there as well. But in Australia, they sold all those deals, so I'm pretty I've like I've never actually tested it, but when you look up where to watch the stuff, Fight Pass isn't on the list. And so one person will have the prelim deal, someone else will have the main event, and it's just not um uh fan friendly on watching in Australia, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:25

And then why does everyone illegally stream? It's like why do you think? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's uh that's unfortunate. But um That's fucking illegal, it's illegal, man. You give the thing money. They know why it doesn't have enough money anyway. It's like that's like nah, I won't get into that rant about like record music industries. Um shout out LimeWire Napster took it over, man. They destroyed the industry. Us record labels have to reduce. Nah, but they've all pivoted now and make loads of money. So, you know, the industry finds a way to make it work, doesn't matter. Um, anyway, dude. That was awesome.

Doco Plug And Final Shout Outs

SPEAKER_01 1:25:57

Thanks for coming on and chatting. Oh, thanks for having me. Anything you want to promote? Uh shout out before before we close out.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:03

Um, the I guess the docker I've got coming out. Um, I don't know what your turnaround time is, but I know mine's incredibly slow. So this will probably come out before the docker's gonna be. Yeah, this will be out in a few weeks. Yeah, okay, yeah. So the docker, like I thought I'd be coming to an end of the doco about now. Um, because I thought I was gonna be starting in January, but I didn't end up starting until the end of March, and it's just taking ages because motivation and all other different reasons I'm sure you can understand uh relate. Um, but when the Docker comes out, keep an eye on uh Squared Up MMA on YouTube. Uh second half of this year's the goal. Uh the Doco is me going through um the MM um MMA training camp through the aspect of a person in media and as a regular person doing a fight camp. Uh I've got my interviews that come out on YouTube as well, and I post clips and stuff on Instagram and TikTok of my UFC coverage, my interviews, and my post-fight stuff for local scenes. Hell yeah, man. I even um because this was a new experience for me being on the other side of the mic and just I did bring my microphone. I was gonna do it at the beginning, but uh I was gonna say this is a new experience for me. I've got my my comfort microphone to feel like I'm the one doing the interviewing.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:14

This interview is definitely sponsored by Rode, because these are road mice as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:19

The uh, but no, thank you for having me. It's been a been a great experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:22

Hey man, I mean, hey, I mean, I don't know why you thought you weren't gonna be that good at this. You're fucking great at it. You have your own podcast soon. There'll be squared up podcasts.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:29

Yeah, but I'm in your seat. I'm the one driving the questions, so then have to ask and storytell it's just like nah, mate.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:34

You'll crush it. Fuck if I can do it, anybody can do it, is what I believe. Alright, dude. Thanks so much for coming on, and thanks everyone for listening. Call it there. Bye.