#18| Transforming Overwhelmed to Fulfilled Using Mindfulness, with Tara Perman

My guest today is my friend and former client Tara Perman. When we started coaching, Tara was feeling uninspired with her successful career of 23 years.

She was the primary parent in her household and COVID had taken its toll - she was frustrated with trying to manage everything. She knew she wanted to change careers, but was afraid to take the plunge.

The first thing we worked on was the idea that the fear of change was real and would always be there. Tara learned to move forward with her business while feeling the fear instead of waiting for it to go away. She stuck with her plan to become a career coach, even when it felt hard.

Things changed at home, too. She put in her notice before a family vacation, much earlier than she had previously planned. She fully enjoyed vacation with her family for the first time. She decided to spend the whole summer with her kids, without the stress of working, for the first time.

She marketed her new business even when it felt scary. When she felt stuck, she would just take one tiny step in the direction of her new life.

She now has a successful coaching business and just took a month-long vacation to Europe with her husband and kids for the second summer in a row. 

Tune in and listen to Tara’s full story!

Featured on the Show

Tara's coaching business: www.tarapermancoach.com

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Life can be overwhelming, but on this podcast, you'll discover practical strategies to overcome overwhelm, imposter syndrome, and negative self-talk, manage time effectively, set boundaries, and stay productive in high-stress jobs—all while learning how to say no and prioritize self-care on the Overwhelmed Worki...

Transcript

Results Week

Michelle 0:04

Hey , I'm Michelle Gauthier and you're listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast . Hello , hello . I have to start off by telling you that this week is results week . What that means is every day this week I will be sharing the story of a client who has finished six months of coaching with me and tell you about where they started , how we made the transformation, and where they are now . If you aren't already on my email list , then you won't be getting these , because they're coming via email outside of today's , which is also on the podcast . So if you aren't already , go to my website at MichelleGauthier . com and on the homepage there's a button where you can click to sign up for my emails and that way , you will get fun success stories every day this week . If you listen to Tara's story today and you feel inspired and you want to be the next success story and the next person featured in results week , reach out to me . There is a link in the show notes and there's a link on my webpage where you can set up a one-on-one consultation with me to talk about coaching . I'd love to talk to you .

Michelle 1:17

Before we jump into today's episode , I want to tell you a little bit about the guest that I've asked to join us today .

Michelle 1:22

If you've listened to other episodes of this podcast , I usually am giving advice and practical tools that you can use to change your life , and today's guest is someone who has done just that . Tara Perlman is my former client , and I invited her to join us today because I want you to hear her story , so that you can hear about what could be possible for you . I'm not going to give away all the details , because I'm going to ask her all the questions . Listen to this episode and you'll find out exactly how Tara has changed her life , how she was feeling before , what kind of changes she made to her life and how , and then she'll just give us a taste of what her life is like now , and we , as always , will not sugarcoat the details . Change can be hard , but we will tell you how this happened and I think you'll end up feeling really inspired after listening to this one . So , Tara , thank you for being here today , say hello and tell us a little bit about yourself .

Tara 2:16

Hi everyone . I am thrilled to be here and honored to be a guest of Michelle's . So I am a Chicago based coach . I call myself a career strategist , so helping busy professionals find more fulfillment and satisfaction in their work . So sometimes for people that could mean leaping into a new role or industry or sometimes just setting different boundaries or advocating for yourself differently in your current role . A lot of that work I obviously learned through my own coaching practice , but definitely was kick- started by a lot of the things that I learned in my time with Michelle . So I'm excited to pay a little bit of that forward by sharing my own experience and some of the things that I learned through Michelle that have helped me be in my business today , doing what I'm doing and loving what I'm doing . Yay for loving what you're doing .

Michelle 3:05

Okay , tell us a little bit about when we started , like what you were doing for work , kind of what your background is , the situation you were in and how you were feeling before we started coaching together .

Overwhelmed & Unclear

Tara 3:17

So I met Michelle during the pandemic and it was a pretty pivotal time of my life for a variety of reasons and obviously all of us were having lots of changes going on with the pandemic . But for me , she met me when I was about 23 years , into a career in professional services doing learning and development work which for many , many years was fulfilling for me and I loved it . But a little bit closer to the pandemic it was starting to feel quite stressful to me . It was long hours , it was a lot of travel , the things it was taking to stay relevant in that industry were not exciting to me anymore and I just wasn't feeling interested in getting promoted . I wasn't interested in all the things I needed to do to kind of position myself to continue to stay successful . And it's just feeling a bit lost at my job . And coupled with the fact that I was married to an entrepreneur who traveled a lot and has a completely opposite work schedule than what I had , I was taking the primary parent load all while working full time , traveling, all the things , and it just felt like too much . So insert the pandemic , which totally screwed that all up too , because now I'm homeschooling on top of all that , and so , as I reflected on some changes I wanted for myself , I really identified the parts of my job that I loved , which were the people development parts of it and no longer the project and program management parts of it . And I worked a lot with coaches in my former roles . In fact , we employed coaches at my firm and they partnered with us to create these learning and leadership programs that I was leading , and I was really inspired by their work and how , every day , they were doing people development and having a lot more impact because working one-on-one with people as opposed to the larger scale work that I was doing . So I was pretty convinced that I wanted to shift into coaching .

Tara 5:09

So during the pandemic and while I'm homeschooling , I somehow found the time to pursue my coaching certification and almost had it completed when I decided to work with Michelle , because I was feeling convinced that coaching was something I wanted to do , but I was really struggling to figure out how I could make that happen . Oddly , my life and my career was all about being a planner and thinking ahead and thinking of risk and contingency , and I couldn't apply that to myself . Like, this was so foreign to me, this idea of not having a corporate job to tag myself to, like where did I even get started and how could I feel safe and comfortable doing that without a safety net ? And so that really was the impetus for reaching out to Michelle to feel like , okay , I've invested my money in this choice and I've invested my money in this certification , but I'm afraid I'm never going to quit my job unless I get some help from Michelle to figure out how to do that .

Michelle 6:11

Yes , yes , oh my gosh . I felt the same way when it was me quitting my job because , even if you don't like it and you know you want to leave , there's so much security in not only the money and the health insurance but like the identity, being the known expert and knowing exactly what to do , and knowing all the people . That's a scary - it feels really scary when you're all of a sudden going to just totally depend on yourself .

Tara 6:36

Yes , yes , and I , although I was presenting that role in my marriage of being the provider and the steady income person and the health insurance person , I was resenting that but at the same time , that was something I really identified with , like I was this independent , self-sufficient woman who did provide for my family in that way , and to not throw it away because I'm not throwing it away , but to risk that at the age that I was , and even at the ages that my children were , you know , not old enough to be , you know , empty nesters , that was a kind of a scary proposition and , to your point , Michelle , like walking away from something I identified with , even though I didn't choose that as my identity . I'd gotten used to that as my identity and I didn't know who else I was besides those things .

Michelle 7:25

Yes , yes . So if you had to describe in one or two words the way that you were feeling at that time , how would you describe your feeling ?

Tara 7:35

Overwhelmed , for sure , and I was feeling unclear , needing clarity , needing a plan yeah , and I - I can obviously speak to it too , but I needed someone like - my husband was amazing in this process for me and I was like yes , do it , I support you . I mean , he's an entrepreneur himself and he's really comfortable with risk , so there was never a part of him that was fearful of me quitting my job . He was like do it , do it tomorrow . I was the one who was really holding back and for whatever reason . Actually, in my coaching now with others , I call this chaperone- seeking , but I was chaperone- seeking , Michelle , to like help me . My husband's word wasn't enough . I needed , like someone else , to be able to say you know, put this date down . Use this as your quit date . You've done enough to plan , you're ready .

Michelle 8:30

That's great , I love that term .

Tara 8:32

Any of us are chaperone seekers , looking for someone else to help us make our decisions .

Michelle 8:37

Yeah , and that's someone who's too close to us too , like your husband . Or how kids- you can tell them things a hundred times , but if their teacher says it , it's like, "ou know what Miss So-and-So taught me today , mom There's some thing about having you know a different expert tell you something . That's really funny . So when we first started coaching , what I want to try to share on here is that change takes a while - real change , the kind that sticks , and so I coach my clients for six months minimum . So when we first got started , do you remember early on when things started feeling better or you started getting clarity ? Do you remember early on how it felt when we were coaching together ?

Thoughts Influencing Actions

Tara 9:17

I think early on you introduced me to the thoughts influencing action and while that was something I learned in therapy and also something I learned in my own coaching certification , the way that you did it with me and maybe seeing it play out in real time for me in the decisions I was making was instantly helpful , and I think we did that probably on one of our first or second sessions and just talking about what are the thoughts I was having about my circumstances and how that was driving my behaviors , and sounds so simple when I'm saying it right now out loud , but it was profound . It had profound impact on me because I wasn't, even though I knew to do that, and I learned that, I needed again like someone prompting me and kind of making me accountable for going through that thought process and that was wildly beneficial from the beginning .

Michelle 10:13

I think that's why coaches need coaches , because we can see it in other people . But it's hard to get that out of your own brain if you don't have somebody to chaperone you , as you said , which I love that . So what kinds of thoughts were you having that were making you feel overwhelmed or unsure about what to do next ?

Tara 10:31

Thoughts about had I done all the things that I needed to do and was I ready .

Tara 10:37

You did a lot of work with me on figuring out , like , who was my ideal client and what was my unique value , and working with clients and just audibly saying those things out loud and creating that evidence was what I needed . And realizing that you would ask me a question that I hadn't necessarily thought through but I had an answer like , oh , I do know what my brand is , or I do know what my take is , or I do know what my approach would be . So really creating a lot of that evidence list that would support me feeling more comfortable making choices and I think , really just the work that we did for me of getting more comfortable with fear , like fear is going to be there on every step of this journey , but how , like , if I can expect it and if I can talk to it and if I can for me , like , thank it , like , oh , thank you fear . You're trying to get me to recognize that I need to be thinking about 'this' . Good news .

Tara 11:33

I thought about it . I think we're good . You know , I'm good enough . Let's go ahead , let's proceed . That that was the kind of stuff that was really helpful for me .

Michelle 11:42

Yeah , yeah . And you said a minute ago that you were asking yourself am I ready to do this ? And I just want to offer for anybody out there if you're making a change in your life , you're going to have that question and the answer is very likely going to be no , maybe forever . Yeah , because you were never going to be at the point . At least, I've never been at that point with a major decision . Every major decision , even the ones I know are right , have a little bit of,

Michelle 12:07

"Should I seriously do this ? I can't , especially if you can't see the way that it's going to play out a year from now . We want - especially overachiever - we want the answer . Like here's my project plan , here are a ll the things that I have , here's exactly how I'm going to execute it , and when we don't have that, it can feel scary , but I think you did a really great job of just seeing that fear , noticing what it was and then continuing to take action . So what kind of actions do you think you started taking once you could see okay , this is the way that I'm thinking and what that's creating for me is fear or inability to leave my job . So then what happened ? What did you start doing once you changed your thoughts ?

Tara 12:47

Well , I started taking some like more micro steps of like okay , like we , probably shortly after a call with you where you asked me a lot about who my ideal client was and what you know what value I could offer , I , probably shortly after that , drafted what my website would say . Like you know , maybe I didn't post it the very next day , but I started taking the small steps , the domino steps that initiate the bigger actions . So , instead of letting fear cripple me from doing anything and over like , over assess , am I ready , is this the right time ? I just would get comfortable and you would help me , like commit to doing one thing . Okay , like just write the website , like see how that feels , and then you would do that and be like , oh , all right , that felt pretty good . Like now I want to do something with that . I don't want that to sit in my Google doc , I want that to sit on a website . All right , now let me go get the website created .

Michelle 13:40

Yeah get some pictures taken . Yeah , start talking to people yeah , step by step . And I think sort of the hallmark of overwhelm is inaction . So when you're in feeling overwhelmed and unclear , we can't really do anything except for just hang around in our overwhelm and feel freaked out . So once you can get out of that , which we did by shifting your thoughts , then you were able to start taking action , and one of the thoughts that I remember us practicing was I can start . Not , I don't know everything , but I know I can start on this , and that's just a great example .

Michelle 14:15

What about with your family and your kids ? Do you remember taking any different actions there ? Because I know when we first started , you said you were feeling overwhelmed as the primary parent . What I remember is it was we worked together close to summertime , I think , and your kids were about to be out of school , and that was always a crazy time for you when you were working , like trying to book them in all these camps . So how were things with your family as we were going through this ?

Tara 14:41

Well , so one of the things that I think is probably one of my favorite things that you helped me do was , you know , I probably would have put off my quit date for a really long time , and one thing that you helped me do was put a date on the calendar which was far earlier than I think I would have said I would have been comfortable with .

Tara 15:00

But you made me do it and realize I'd be ready then .

Tara 15:03

And then it happened to be around a vacation that my family was was going to take just like a week long vacation , and you were like , why would you make your quit date be after that vacation , quit before the vacation and go on your first vacation without a job backing up , to come home to and like enjoy that time with your family in a way that you've never done before . And I was like , yes , like duh , that makes so much sense . And then what I ended up doing is committing to taking the summer off of not like launching my business until the fall after I quit and to create a summer like I was never going to have with my kids , where I wasn't going to work and I had more fluid schedule . And , yes , I put some pieces of things together for my family that summer , but mostly like they didn't do camps , we went on that one vacation and we just spent a really fun summer at home and that to me was worth far more than money in my pocket that summer .

Michelle 16:06

Yeah , and had you ever had a summer like that with your kids ? No , never , yeah , so just to have that experience , that's amazing . I remember you going to visit friends and see their kids and just doing like little trips around too . It's such a fun , freeing feeling . I've been there too . It's really nice .

Tara 16:23

Yeah , and I think it helped also because one of the goals for me quitting my job and shifting into a different kind of lifestyle with a different type of job . My husband has a job where he travels to Europe quite a bit , has lots of friends in Europe , and our goal was to spend more time in Europe every summer . And while we didn't do it that first summer when I quit because it was still the pandemic and we couldn't travel , but me taking that summer off and prioritizing life experience is important , and so few summers with my kids while they're young and want to hang out with us that that was the catalyst for every summer since then, we've taken a month off and gone overseas and I don't know that I would have done that had I not taken that first brave summer of just being comfortable , not working for a summer .

Michelle 17:14

Yeah , and it seems just like we were talking about where your identity becomes your job . So , even though working in the summer was stressful and not fun , it was comfortable . And it's so uncomfortable to say I'm choosing to not work so that I can hang out with my kids for a whole summer . It feels like that should be so easy , but it isn't .

Tara 17:33

It isn't . And now that I'm self-employed , for me to do that, that's saying I'm choosing not to have income for a whole month every summer and I'm okay , like I mean I'm you're telling you I'm okay with it . Sure , I'm a little cringy , like eek , like what am I doing ? Yeah , but no , like it really roots back to , like , the values and the reasons for why I made this shift and so , while it's uncomfortable , it's important and that's what I committed to doing .

Michelle 17:56

Yeah , that's so amazing . I also feel like you're downplaying your trip situation , you guys . Her husband owns a wine store and they get to go to Europe . Maybe the kids don't drink wine as much , but they get to go try all these great wines and foods and he has tons of connections and friends . I mean , that just sounds amazing and I'm so envious that your kids get that experience . Yeah , how cool is that ?

Tara 18:17

And grow up doing things like that it's pretty great and it helps me not resent my husband's travel for the rest of the year . Yeah , I am home , just me and the kids , and he's gone even three weeks at a time . It makes it all feel a little more worth it when I'm like , yes , but this has a payoff in the summer when we all get to go and we have these great friends that we stay with and really intimate experiences when we're there .

Michelle 18:41

Yeah , that's just so cool . What an amazing experience . So what would you say ? Which change that you had to make felt like the hardest one for you ?

Feel Your Feelings

Tara 18:51

I'm going to shift gears a little bit , because it wasn't about the business . It was about one of the other really critical things you taught me was feeling the feelings and prioritizing time to go through the emotions when something is hard , and there were probably things I did related to that about the business . So no doubt I had to , like , feel the uncomfortable feelings and the worry and the fear , but I think where it had the most meaning to me was some of the things we talked about when we were working together were friendship changes that I was going through - call it midlife , call it pandemic . Lots of things were going on and there was a particular friendship that I was really missing and had changed so dramatically . I just was having trouble navigating that .

Tara 19:39

I was learned through working with you that I was really just pushing those feelings that I was having about that to the side , like I don't have time to worry about that , like , move on , I've got so much other things going on . We had a session about feeling the feelings . You gave me homework about spending time before we met again of feeling the feelings and like , make sure that I like don't push them away and lean into them, and I do it and , like you know how , you have some moments in your life that are just so crystal to you , and for me it was a moment related to that . Like, "I can tell you what highway I was on driving my car and crying about the change in this friendship , and it was so cathartic and so helpful that I teach it to my clients and give them homework about feeling the feelings . But that , to me , was one of the most impactful things that we do .

Michelle 20:30

That's awesome , that is so great . There's I think it's in Untamed , that book , Untamed by Glennon Doyle where she talks about if you ignore your feelings . It's just like when someone comes and rings your doorbell and you don't answer . They just keep coming back and they just keep coming back . So if you just process those feelings which always feels scary , but actually when you do it it never really lasts that long .

Michelle 20:55

I think people have told me and I used to think this myself if I start crying , I'm gonna cry for four days . Right , right , you probably you might , but I've never had that experience . You know , usually it's like a few solid minutes . Maybe you feel sad after , but then you can handle it , you can accept that maybe this friendship changed or decide to make a change yourself and maybe try to reconnect or whatever it is . But feeling the feelings is so important and it's funny how hard it is to feel your feelings when you've been in the mode for so many years . I'm speaking of myself , but it might resonate with you , Tara, of "I've got so much to do , I do not have time to feel sad about this" .

Tara 21:34

Yeah, totally, and that's exactly where I was like I , there's two , yeah , I'm going to class at night and I'm working and my kids are homeschooling and I don't have time to mourn this friendship change . I don't even have time to be a friend . But what a disservice I was doing by not paying attention .

Michelle 21:48

Yeah , exactly that's . I feel like, "sorry , self sorry . You were trying to tell me something and I just was not listening . " That's funny . Did anyone around you , like your mom or your friends or your husband , noticed differences in you when you were doing coaching ?

Tara 22:05

Yes , when my husband in particular would be like , "oh , did you get that from Michelle ? " Like kind of in a jokey way , like , oh , is that a Michelle thing In a good jokey way . But he was recognizing that I was making more assertion with what I wanted and was having different kinds of conversations about what I wanted . So , yes , he definitely noticed I'm going to change gears again . But , like we had a marital challenge my husband and I before all this happened , so well before I was considering being a coach, and went to therapy and have really buttoned things up and we're in a much healthier , better place . But there were times , Michelle when you and I talked that things about my marriage came up , because obviously , I mean , career decision has impact on marriage and a lot of the choices that I was looking to make in my life were directly related to things that came out of my marital crisis , about prioritizing myself and advocating what I wanted and needed for myself and what would make me happy in my life , and that was career change . But that was all really new for me to be able to say things to my husband like what I really want is this , and what that means to you and the family is this change , and I'm not asking permission , I'm telling you that's what I want and I'm expecting that change to happen .

Tara 23:31

I was not talking that way years ago and so that was also part of the transformation I was going through when I was working with you was he was on board with me changing jobs , and he was pretty comfortable with the risk we were taking financially and things .

Tara 23:49

But I was the one who was unsure about that kind of what we started the call with . Like I had this role in our family of being stability and being a certain . For a long time I was the breadwinner . Like he was comfortable with the changes , but I wasn't comfortable with how . . . Like I wanted him actually to second guess me or like are you sure this is what you want ? Are you sure this is the right choice ? And he wasn't doing any of that . So I think a lot of the work that we did too , was me getting comfortable saying out loud what I want , telling people what that was going to look like , and then following through and , you know , having some actions related to that . But now I'm like I talked a little bit in a circle .

Michelle 24:36

It makes sense because we started off talking about did other people notice you change and of course they do . When you turn into a person who is just authentic and tells the truth and has boundaries and says here's what I'm looking for , people notice . They don't always love it at first , I feel like sometimes they're kind of confused , Like who is this person ? But it seems like in my experience it creates more real relationships .

Tara 25:00

Yes , and I think being like a truth teller was a bigger change for me , Like I wasn't so used to being like even the friendship changes that we talked about . Like I had to have some - for me - scary conversations with some friends that had some friendship changes for me and that was really hard for me and I don't know that I would have done that before . I would have , I think I definitely would have avoided that . So , yes , being more of a , I am more of a truth teller and more comfortable sharing what my feelings are in a situation .

Michelle 25:34

Mm-hmm , yep , and I think that sort of the opposite end of that spectrum is being a full on people pleaser . So it's not like you were lying before , but maybe you would have just not said what you wanted or would have been thinking about what the other person wants , and now it sounds like you're more of an advocate for yourself and what you want .

Tara 25:53

Yeah , for sure , I have a history of like diminishing my own feelings and things are like yeah , I'm not perfect on that yet I definitely still have pieces of that that show up for myself .

Michelle 26:05

Me too . I feel like the awareness is the key . You know , and it comes up and you can see oh my gosh , that was the people pleaser in me trying to speak up again . Yeah , it's just good to notice it . So tell us how your life feels now , what it looks like now , just in general , how things are going . Yeah .

Tara 26:23

So I would say things are great . I did quit that job that I was afraid to quit . I quit the job . I went off on my own and have my own coaching practice and do some contract work as well . I love the work that I'm doing every day . I never thought I could be this happy with my job . I'm busy . I definitely am busy .

Tara 26:47

I probably have to set some different boundaries about how much work and effort and time I'm taking at my job . But the difference is I am enjoying it and it feels way more validating and fulfilling than what I was doing before . And I'm still the primary parent in my husband and I's relationship , just because of his schedule . But I have a lot less resentment on that than I did previously because I have a different kind of job stress than what I had before . It's more of a volume stress than it is an effort stress , and so I'm able to manage that differently .

Tara 27:24

And , as we talked about before , we're taking that month long vacation and even my husband and I have done a better job prioritizing some trips just he and I without our kids , because that was a piece that was missing was having some different kind of quality time with him . So that has changed too . The other thing that's different for me is , I think with working with you , Michelle , I *did* a lot of the things that I learned in coaching , and so I think that just helps me . I think I'm a better coach because of what I learned and what I practiced and what I felt when I was working with you . So it really I think it really helped my competency as a coach as well .

Michelle 28:07

That is wonderful and I think , as a person who has hired coaches and will hire coaches , I always love working with someone who's been through it . You know , somebody who knows how I feel and has had to work on the family balance or what it feels like to quit a job that you're really successful with , on purpose , and all those things . It just to me , makes it like a real authentic person who has been somewhere that I have been , so that's awesome . I think for all of your potential clients that they have that resource in you that you're not just like , oh , I had this perfect job and then I created this new one and I'll tell you what to do .

Michelle 28:45

It's not like that . You can really connect with them and speak from the heart and I feel like women , especially at our you and I are kind of in the same category that we had been working for like 20 something years and had very successful careers , and when you get bored of that or sick of that , we're really seeking something deeper . It's not usually like I just want to get a different job at another big company . You know , I really want to have a meaningful life and I feel like you have just done an amazing job of creating that for yourself . Tara: because I was a good chaperone- seeker and I had you in my journey .

Michelle 29:21

Michelle: So funny . Well , let's tell people where they can find you . To first tell us who would be that you know , like if a person is feeling this way , they would be your most ideal client , so kind of the people that usually come to you and then tell them where they can find out more about you and your work , or what steps they should take to find you .

Tara 29:38

Yeah , so I call myself a career strategist , but really what that means is I want to help people who are feeling dissatisfied or unfulfilled by work , so a lot of that ends up being a career pivot . So helping people figure out a different job that will feel better for them , or a different industry or sector that will feel better for them . But they struggle with the idea of , like I don't know where to start , like I've only done this type of thing . I don't know how my skills translate in a different context , or I don't even know how I would go about that . So if you're feeling overwhelmed by those feelings of like I know I want to do something different , but I don't know what , or I don't know how my skills are valued outside of this context .

Tara 30:20

That's the work that I love to do , focused on your values , your strengths and your passions , and figuring out a plan for you and helping you see what your options are . And then I also do some leadership coaching . In particular , I have a soft spot for people who are new people managers so they've shifted from that individual contributor role and now they're leading people and that's messy and that's hard and they often don't get good support at work to be able to take that skill set and and do it well , and so I love to help someone who's struggling with being a people manager and help them navigate the things to do to be successful . So I've got lots of strategies and tools and activities that I introduced to coaching to help folks who can relate to that problem as well .

Michelle 31:05

Okay, perfect . So if someone says I really don't know what I want to do next , I can't even articulate what my values are . Is that okay ? Yeah , is that your person ?

Tara 31:16

That's my person . Okay , yeah , my person , like the one who's like I don't . I know I don't want to do this anymore , but I don't know what else it could be . I'm your girl , I will happily help you figure that out and I've got lots of things to introduce to those conversations for you to get that clarity , okay . And where should they go to find you ? So you can find me at tarapermancoach . com . So , Tara T- A- R- A, Perman P-E-R-M-A-N .

Michelle 31:44

tarapermancoach . com . Perfect , okay go check her out and follow her . I can definitely tell you she is wonderfully smart , kind, a fantastic coach . I endorse everything about Tara . She is wonderful , so go check her out and thank you so much , Tara , for just being vulnerable and talking about your experiences and sharing what you learned in coaching . Is there anything I forgot to ask you ? Is there anything else you want to add ?

Tara 32:10

I don't think you forgot to ask me anything , but I just want to say that this was a lot of fun and it feels like I recapped a snapshot in my life that feels like forever ago . I'm kind of like surprised at how long ago it was that we worked together , but I still , to this day , use so many of the things that we worked on together .

Michelle 32:29

So even if you invest in coaching for just one period of time in your life , if you're doing it and you're committed to the process , you will learn lifelong skills and strategies to help you far beyond your initial . I'm so glad you said that , because I do think it's human nature to think , wow , that's a lot of money to invest in myself for six months time , but it's really to invest in myself for the rest of my life . That will be completely different when I do this .

Tara 32:56

Totally . I , yeah , yes , I would say probably every day I use something that I learned in my time with you .

Michelle 33:02

Oh , wonderful , thank you , I'm so glad to hear that . Okay , well , that's it for today . Thank you so much for listening and thanks , Tara , for joining us . It was great to have you , my pleasure . Thanks , Michelle . Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast . If you want to learn more about my work , head over to my website at MichelleGauthier . com . See you next week .