Heal & Grow with Nickie
Join your host, Nickie Kromminga Hill, and her guests on a journey of personal stories and insights into healing and growth from past and current trauma. The focus is on fostering true connections through conversations centered around vulnerability and authenticity. The goal is to collectively heal and find opportunities for growth, promoting a sense of togetherness.
Heal & Grow with Nickie
42: A Conversation with Zoe Courneya
Sobriety often emerges quietly, tucked away from public view, but in today's discussion, Zoe and I invite you into the intimate realm of our sober journeys. Our dialogue dances around the pursuit of clarity without the crutch of alcohol and the journey towards mental well-being. We swear off easy categorizations and explore the nuances of living soberly on our terms, cherishing the achievements that defy society's standards of success. It's a conversation about the challenging introspections we face and the empowering revelations we unearth when we embrace authenticity.
Plus...cookies!
Check out Zoe's travel business!
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Hello, hello, beautiful people, welcome to this week's episode of Heal and Grow with Nikki. This week we get to meet my special guest, zoe Cornier. Zoe is a 1983 baby and, at 40 this year, has lived many lives and done many a thing. She started off as a dancer at Ballet Arts, which soon made her realize that what she loved was being on stage. Someone took a chance on the 13-year-old with braces and cast her as the vegetable seller in Madeline's Rescue at the Children's Theater.
Speaker 1:Most noteworthy of her first professional show, her costume consisted of a chest plate with fake saggy boobs to make her appear older, of a chest plate with fake saggy boobs to make her appear older. When she was applying for colleges, she had her eyes set on one college and one college only Carnegie Mellon. When she was waitlisted, the world seemed to turn upside down. But luck should have it that she booked shows in the Twin Cities pretty quickly. A production of the Play about the baby at the old theater garage kick-started her post-high school career. Things seemed to catapult from there. At 19, she was named one of the top 10 actors under 30 in the Twin Cities by the Pioneer Press. She remembers sitting backstage during a production of Floyd Collins at Theater La Te Da saying to a colleague Chanhassen Dinner Theaters is doing Grease. If they don't cast me in this, they're not going to cast me in anything. She went on to play Rizzo, eponine, ula and Ariel in Footloose, all at Chanhassen Dinner Theatres, at 26,.
Speaker 1:She wanted to find something that could be a side gig, something that would help in calming her ever growing anxiety and depression, and something that made her feel confident, strong and healthy. She found yoga, and life was never the same. After she became a yoga teacher, she continued to perform and then she met the dude. Jonas was a helicopter pilot in the Army and he lived in Alabama. She was quick to drop everything. She knew, her career, the city. She grew up in her two cats and being close to her family.
Speaker 1:Less than a year later, after performing as Eva Peron with La Teyda, she moved to Hawaii with Jonas, where he was first stationed. Over the six years there, she learned a great deal. One of those years, jonas was deployed to Afghanistan to fly helicopters in the war. It was one of the most traumatic and devastating times in her life. She was lucky to see him come home In 2014,. They got married At the end of 2016, they finally moved back home. They bought a house a year later. They now have two incredible girls aged five and two, lucy and Charlie.
Speaker 1:Currently, zoe is a hustler. She works as a travel agent, specializing in Disney vacations. She creates social media content for Princess Party Pals and in January she celebrated 14 years as the radio voice for my Talk 107.1. Zoe is ill and it hurts to make that statement. Interestingly enough, she and Nikki have lived a very paralleled existence over the past couple of years. As shitty as it is to be grieving, experiencing and grappling with chronic illness that has been undiagnosed for the majority of her life, she is incredibly grateful that she has her buddy of 20 years, who really truly gets it.
Speaker 1:Zoe's favorite fruit is honeydew. She loves everything about holidays and decorating and celebrating. She finds joy in picking out a cute outfit for the morning. The office is everything she enjoys finding the perfect gift for someone, writing and snail, mailing cards for special occasions and engaging in a little surprise and delight. Cupcakes, feta cheese, guacamole and buffalo sauce have a special place in her heart, but not all together. Some of her heroes include Mark Brackett and Brene Brown. She's been mistaken for Jenny Slate multiple times and Brene Brown. She has been mistaken for Jenny Slate multiple times. She's a baker, singer, designer, a lover of creating an aesthetic, a comedian and an active participant in her own healing and self-discovery.
Speaker 1:Zoe is not showing up today with a success story. She is not a polished version of herself. She's currently sitting in the question, trying to get back to herself of herself. She's currently sitting in the question, trying to get back to herself, having more moments of suffering than freedom, and she's trying to live by her favorite quote by the one and only Ted Lasso For herself and for everyone she meets be curious, not judgmental. If there's one thing that Zoe thinks could heal the world, it's connection Honest, true, rich, deep connection.
Speaker 1:Let's do this Welcome to Heal and Grow with Nikki. I'm your host, nikki Kraminga-Hill. Here we talk about everything Grief, hope, illness, work, family, tragedy, possibilities, fun stuff and not so fun stuff. It's all on the table. Let's take a look at our lives and work to heal and grow together. I'm so glad you're here, zoe. Hi Hi, y'all Zoe's here. Now I need you to know something. Everybody. Zoe, hi Hi, y'all Zoe's here. Now I need you to know something. Everybody. Zoe's been here for like an hour and we about seven times. We said we should be recording this, so we've been talking for a very, very long time about a lot of stuff. Yeah, hi Hi, I don't know everybody. I don't know who's new here. We have a dog. My husband and I have a dog named snowball she likes to make.
Speaker 2:I'm looking at her right now through the stairwell.
Speaker 1:She's eyeing me. She's probably gonna start crying and if that happens, we just, we just let her do that, because crying is allowed. However you feel is is fine and valid. Yep, I validate snowball's feelings oh, there's a little. You can hear her little chain. Zoe brought crumble cookies y'all. Yes, have you had crumble cookies audience? Who can't talk back to me?
Speaker 2:I thought you were asking me and I was like who do you think?
Speaker 1:you're talking to? Yeah, yeah, you've sent them to me before I know, oh they're so good.
Speaker 2:When I first saw them, I was like they're too big, so good.
Speaker 1:yeah, when I first saw them, I was like they are too, they're too big and then I'm like now I'm like no, I'm gonna crush that right now, I'm gonna buy myself right now. We maybe need to do a little taste test throughout.
Speaker 2:I I think that we should talk, and while one person is talking, the other person should be just like enjoying enjoying the cookie, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, we're gonna give our honest review, we're gonna open it up. Oh oh, these are delicious. Okay, they fell in the car a little bit, whatever they still, would you? Like to explain the cookies.
Speaker 2:Yes, so they change they're. They're four or well, sometimes six, it depends. Like they're weird, but they change flavors every week and so oh my gosh, I'm smelling that one right now. That okay. So my, when my dear dear friends kelsey told me that this, this milkshake with sprinkles, my milkshake brings other boys to the yard.
Speaker 2:This is one of my favorite things about your podcast, by the way, and it happened today. I paused it to go run and get you a coffee and I came out in the car and I turned it on and all of a sudden I hear la, and I was like, oh, that's just Nikki singing. I'm singing stuff In her podcast, which is one of my favorite things about you slash like I feel like our community, just break out in song.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's a real thing. People break out in song and dance all the time. 100, 100 and if?
Speaker 2:they don't bye, bye, get out, we're not friends. Milkshake, and then there's a strawberry cupcake, which is the pink frosting one and then snickerdoodle like you can't yeah okay, do you know the snoodle doodle? That's probably a bad story.
Speaker 1:Snoodledoodle yeah.
Speaker 2:What's a snoodledoodle? Someone on tour once from our community back in the day once heard someone in front of them ordering a snoodledoodle with paprika on it A snoodledoodle with paprika, which, but they were.
Speaker 1:They were trying to say snickerdoodle, yeah, but they thought the cinnamon was paprika.
Speaker 2:They ordered a snoododoodle with paprika on it, okay, but that reminds me of what if we made deviled eggs with cinnamon on them. Gross, You're gross, wow.
Speaker 1:And on that note, guys, okay, well, which one are we going to try?
Speaker 2:Also galactic brownie. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:I'm going to try the one that I'm smelling right now, which is the. My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Okay, do we get the job? What? Yeah, okay, okay, so everyone, listen to us. Grab a cookie. Okay, which one are you gonna get?
Speaker 2:I'm gonna try snooty with paprika oh my gosh, this is gonna be the best. Okay, see, the only thing about the big cookie is, like you really do need to kind of cut it sometimes in order to like get in there this is really good.
Speaker 1:I bet this is riveting to listen to I love.
Speaker 2:All I know is I was staring at the cookie and talking and I look up and it was like so good in your mouth that snickers is yummy oh, my god um okay so zoe, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So, as you heard him in the bio just a few minutes ago, yep, um, zoe has done a lot, a lot, a lot of theater, and that is how we met right, yep our first show together was gosh 2006.
Speaker 2:Maybe no, four, nope five.
Speaker 1:What was our first? What was our first?
Speaker 2:show grace oh hair, 2006 was great, so hair was 2004, okay, hair then grease, then the producers nope hair, then grease, then j.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, joseph, Joseph won.
Speaker 2:Joe Fish, and then that's what Lucy calls it my oldest daughter Joe Fish. And then Producers Okay, is it? Oh, and then Footloose. Yeah, is it weird to tell you that I don't know if I did Joseph 2? I don't think I did I don't think you did it the second time. Okay, cool, thanks, bye.
Speaker 1:I didn't do it the third time, which you all know about, because I've already done an entire podcast on it.
Speaker 2:I have to say this, and I called you and voice messaged you, I think about this.
Speaker 2:But I first of all have had similar experiences, which sucks to say, but also I think, like just makes it so much more of a common experience. I know you shared that like I think the podcast after. Yeah, I thought it was so freaking brave and cool of you to just get on the mic and just share a story that you said in the podcast Like I know this could be really shitty for me and you went forth and you did it and that, to me, is bravery like to the utmost degree. You know if you're feeling so freaking, vulnerable and scared or whatever you're feeling, but you know it's like consequence is possibly there and yet you do it anyway because it has the potential to heal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you. I feel like that's the only way that we can really make change in any type of community. Is you just have to speak up when things are wrong? Yeah, but what usually ends up happening then is that people get ostracized from the community. Yep, so anyway, anywho, we've decided to at least start with talking about Zoe's sobriety journey. Do you say sobriety, or what do you say?
Speaker 2:I mean sorry, I've got cookie in my mouth. By the way, this milkshake cookie it's good, it lives up to the song.
Speaker 1:I can tell because there's a lot of boys in my yard, right now Get out out.
Speaker 2:um, I mean, I do call it sobriety because for me it is, like you know, being sober from alcohol and that's kind of like the common phrase. I know some people don't. Um, I was. I was just in our, our pre-conversation. I was so long story about four years ago. It was like, right when the pandemic hit, I kind of had a moment where I was like you know, I don't know, like my energy is really low. This is a really stressful time. I was kind of witnessing some of my friends like drinking on the daily right when, like you know, we had nothing to do with our lives. I started going for walks with one of my dear friends, who wasn't really close with me at the time but we came super close and at one point during our walk she had said something like I'm going to take this online course from this woman named Laura McCohen, who does the Luckiest Club, which I think had just started, but she wrote a book called we Are the Luckiest, which I highly recommend Such a great book, so good.
Speaker 2:So good. But what I loved about this concept that my friend was sharing with me was that this was just completely not associated with AA or any sort of like. I'm an alcoholic, which I, you know. I've had times in my life when I've abused alcohol. I've had times in my life when I've completely abstained and I've had times in my life when I've drank socially and completely what I would consider like more on a normal scale, and I just have never felt like, oh, I have a problem or oh, I'm an alcoholic. And even if like those have been like, even if like maybe someone else would have said that if they were in my shoes, like they've just never resonated with me. So the idea that, like one could get sober based off of, like, their experience with alcohol, but also more like, not only that, but more so the idea of like, who do I want to be? And the question not being, am I or am I not an alcoholic? But does this help my life?
Speaker 2:or my vision of my life.
Speaker 1:I think that that question because this is. I read Holly Whitaker's book. I already forgot what it's called but Quit Like a. Woman and maybe in we Are the Luckiest. There's a couple books out there right now that that don't follow any particular way like a correct way to stop drinking. But these books say, um, if, if you're, if you're asking yourself am I an alcoholic?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's the wrong question because, and yeah, what are your thoughts on that? I'd love to hear, like, why you think that that's the wrong question, because it.
Speaker 1:I think it focuses on the wrong thing. I think that that focuses on how much alcohol am I consuming, as opposed to how is alcohol a benefit to my life? You know, and I know, I used to get bogged down by the term alcoholic because that has a stigma attached to it and, and I'll be honest, honest I took those online quizzes. You know, like, am I an alcoholic? But really the thing that that started to shift it in my brain for me was the whole like how do you, how do you feel when you drink? Yeah, I feel like shit. Yeah, because, because I drink too much. There you go. For me, the word does not matter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would go as far as to say that AA is very outdated. I think a person or a group of people could make a lot of money by revamping it because it is such an institution. But if you read Alcoholics Anonymous, I haven't read it through and through, so I apologize up front, but it what I have read, what I have heard, is super sexist and so old. It's just so old, but like so it's very outdated. But also the idea of like for me, if someone said to me like back in the day, are you an alcoholic? I would have turned the other way.
Speaker 1:I think anybody would have, Instead of like looking toward it. You know what I mean. Yes, it immediately puts people on the defense.
Speaker 2:So, exactly so. I think it actually deters people from getting better. I do too, which I hate Because, like obviously, you and I are in our own individual world as well as like our own individual words worlds, as well as like our each other's world of like healing and growing at this stage in our life, but it feels that feels so just wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like awful and I wish everyone would rethink the question. Yes.
Speaker 2:So, that they could find their own answers. Anyway, to go back like this, walk this conversation, this friend sort of planted the seed and I thought, oh my, walk this conversation, this friend sort of planted the seed and I thought, oh my gosh, there are other thoughts out there, other ways of thinking. And so then and I have struggled with depression and anxiety my whole life, like that's something I I feel like I've shared on and off in my life and at this point I'm like, whatever, everyone's gonna know, and if they have something to say about it, then that's okay.
Speaker 2:But I've always thought like, obviously, like, when you're depressed, you don't drink a depressant like those. Are that what? No, like. Let's talk about the definition of dumb. Like, I'm sorry no, no, you're right, you're right so he was never beneficial for me on a mental health level, but also I was feeling the physical but is it, but it's not.
Speaker 1:It's not beneficial to anyone on a mental health level At all.
Speaker 2:I know, I just read yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I read this study yesterday. That was like it basically said y'all, alcohol is never a good idea. It's so true. There's never a moment where and I'm not trying to lecture here it's just like I feel like we always try to justify oh, a glass of red wine with no. It's just like I feel like we always try to justify oh, a glass of red wine with no. No, it's never okay for us. It doesn't mean we don't want to do it, you know.
Speaker 2:Right, well it's. I think one of the hardest pieces, too, is not just the stigma behind alcoholism, but also how normalized alcohol is.
Speaker 1:Oh my.
Speaker 2:God. I mean the phrase it's 5 o'clock somewhere or I need a drink. Like those are phrases that are so good.
Speaker 1:Mama needs her juice, yeah, I know Mommy juice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I see those t-shirts at Target or whatever I'm like really guys, can we stop? Yeah, it's not cool, it's not funny, yeah, I mean. Whatever Some people think it's funny, I don't Right. I mom, who I love very, very much, used to say things like it's poison. My mom like has been again sober, but like I wouldn't have considered her like sober from alcohol. She just doesn't drink.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she hasn't the majority of my life.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that yeah, but my mom was a major druggie in the 70s. She'll be the first to tell you that on a podcast.
Speaker 1:Gotta get you gotta get you in here, mary Jane.
Speaker 2:Oh, you do oh gosh, that would be a podcast for the ages. But she used to. When we were like in our 20s, me and my little sister would be like you guys, it's poison, You're fighting in your bodies. And I'd be like, shut up, You're the worst mom and she's so right, Like it's just. The alcohol is never a good thing is also the same as alcohol is poison. Alcohol is never a good thing is also the same as alcohol is poison.
Speaker 1:You do you boo? But alcohol is poison. Yeah, right Again.
Speaker 2:I, like I really am, if my husband drinks, like I don't care if you drink, my dad drinks, drink like it's fun, that's totally fine, right. And the bottom line if you, if you want to know, like what I think about alcohol in general, is it's not so mental health duh, not good for anyone. How long, how long has it been? For you, it'll be four years next month. Congratulations, thank you. And honestly, like yay, like yay, I, um, I've been alcohol free, which I think has changed a lot in my life, but it has been very easy for me in regards to quitting and then staying away Because you quit during that challenge.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I quit two months into the pandemic. Because, speaking of walking with friends, I was one of those friends that you had a walk with. I remember that that day was 30 days for you. No, yeah, you said I just finished. I'm just finishing up a 30-day challenge. Today is the last day and I'm going to keep going.
Speaker 2:I think I challenged myself to a month and then I was like I'm going to just do month by month Because I wasn't going to say never, that was dumb, yeah. But I also wasn't going to be like, hey, if this is feeling good, like Again, dry January, do it. Cool, that's awesome, yes, also, if it feels good, then why go back? Right, Keep going. I think the hardest piece for me were when people asked questions that were none of their business. Like what kind of questions? Like, almost immediately, someone in my family was like why are you doing this? Like almost judgmental. And I was like, uh, like yeah, because there were so many answers and none of them were his business, right, and I felt put on the spot and I felt like it to answer a question that I I didn't want to answer and I did. I remember I was just like stumbling through it, but that happened a lot. Or like, um, people, I hate this. Welcome to the world. Um, guys, it's 2024. Please stop asking women if the reason they're not drinking is because they're pregnant.
Speaker 1:Screw you like.
Speaker 2:Come on, you guys like and it didn't bother me. I was. I was a very fortunate person where I didn't have to do IVF or I wasn't struggling for years and years. But a lot of people are, so leave them alone, don't ask dumb questions like that. I'm sorry, I'm being super judgy about this.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:It makes me super mad, though, because people would ask me and it didn't bother me, in a way of like oh, do I look pregnant? Because whatever, or like I wasn't struggling internally. So when they said that it didn't hurt my insides and my heart, you know, like I've been struggling for a year and I'm not telling you when it wasn't anything like that, it was like just none of your business. Yeah, first of all, none of your business, but second of all, no, I'm just not drinking because I don't want to right, that's a thing legitimate.
Speaker 1:I know right is a thing people right but that's a thing.
Speaker 2:It's also a legitimate reason, I know Right, that is a thing people. Right, but that again goes back to it being so just common.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really is and you really notice it. For me, at least, the second I stopped drinking and, zoe, you are integral to me not drinking anymore. That conversation that we had on that walk, mm-hmm, and it was the tipping point for me where everything kind of started to change with me. And it still took me two and a half, three years to stop drinking after that conversation with you. But it's just interesting to me how life happens that you go have a walk with a friend and something happens that starts to change your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like a seed planted.
Speaker 1:I remember you sharing that with me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had a seed planted with that friend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it just was like, oh, and I'll be honest, I was like, well, if zoe can do this, I can. Not because I was like zoe's a raging alcoholic, so if she could do it I can. It wasn't that, but just because you and I are similar in so many ways, people. If you only knew, maybe we'll get to that today maybe you know, but it was like I see the value in this but I need a friend to know about it, like I always need sort of like a partner or someone um well so doing it by yourself.
Speaker 2:I mean they say that in a right like you can't do it very self. My belief from from my own path has been if I didn't share it with at least one person. Like if, like my husband Jonas has been like side by side with me the whole way and like, yeah, with moments where I've been like he'll check in or he'll be like do you want to talk about this?
Speaker 1:like if I didn't have at least one person to say, like all the truths to yeah then I, I couldn't do it right, and that's my feeling of like I couldn't do it by myself, and luckily, I have more than just my husband.
Speaker 2:I have you. I have a handful of other friends who have been really supportive and yeah, let me make my way through to a point where I feel. I think this is probably the first time I like publicly talking about it really or post it on facebook about it.
Speaker 2:Well, and I'll be honest with you and you can post. Obviously, please put this podcast out into the world, because I do believe that it will help and it's healing to me too. But I've really wanted to keep this close to my chest for a long time and the reason being is that I think we are so quick to obviously I think every human being is me included so, yeah, put me in the category of the same same but we're so quick to judge each other and assume and think we know, and I just have never wanted anyone's opinion to cloud this joy and this commitment and this wonderful step toward health that I've made for myself.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I've never wanted everyone to be like oh, I knew you were an alcoholic Like screw you. I don't want everyone to be like, oh, I knew you were an alcoholic Like screw you. I don't want to hear that you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like I just didn't want anyone's opinion yes, especially Facebook, because ugh, yeah, I get that I don't want anyone's opinions, but I do believe that the older I get, the more I'm just like you in my life.
Speaker 2:Who are willing to go there, who show me via a podcast about something very surface level in comparison to like sobriety, but like not that. Your experience with you know that theater company was pain, was not painful or deep, right?
Speaker 1:No, I know what you're saying, yeah, that you know you were.
Speaker 2:you're willing to go there too, so it helps people. What you do every day in this podcast helps people come forth. Thank you, I think so.
Speaker 1:What you do every day in this podcast helps people come forth. Thank you, I think so. That's what I want. You know, I don't. In fact, I think my second podcast is about that Like I don't. People share their journeys in different ways. You don't need to start a podcast, you don't need to post. You know, I happen to do those things, yeah, but we always feel so isolated, and we are sometimes. But we always feel so isolated and we are sometimes, but there's always someone there that can help you or just stand by you, and you know there's always. So that's why I shares.
Speaker 1:It's just like, hey, I'm a human doing human stuff and feeling human things, and so are you, so let's like do this together.
Speaker 2:Right, Well, and it breaks down walls it breaks down. You know, the barriers of connection, which I think is the reason we're on this earth. Exactly, I do too. I do too, I love that.
Speaker 1:Say that again.
Speaker 2:The reason why we're on this earth is connection relationship connection, but also just to help each other and hold space for each other. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 1:The reason why we're here on earth is to help each other and to hold each other. I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that I mean, and I think we are so conditioned to do the opposite.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think you know. Going back to the statement I made about judgment, you know one phrase and I put this in my bio on the reason. It's sticking out for me and I want to say it again because I think it's just crucial, and I know it's not Ted Lasso didn't say this, but it stuck out to me while watching that show which by the way.
Speaker 1:When it was done, I was like my life is over I know, didn't you feel like you, like you lost your friends? Yes, I need to watch it again.
Speaker 2:It's so good so good, and I thought season three wasn't going to be so great.
Speaker 1:But oh loved it, loved it.
Speaker 2:So, just like it just tugged at every heartstring. But when in the first season, when he's in that um scene in the bar and he's playing darts with Rupert Rupert, rupert, rupert I don't know who freaking knows anymore, I think it's.
Speaker 1:Rupert. I don't know Rupert, it was Rupert.
Speaker 2:It's not Rupert, but let's pretend like it is.
Speaker 1:That's the guy from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Rupert.
Speaker 2:Right, I just mix them up. No.
Speaker 1:Okay, so he's playing darts in the bar with the owner of the other team?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, the douche nozzle who we don't like anymore. I am 40, but I do use phrases like that sometimes. I just had a snoodle doodle oh my gosh With paprika on it.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You're never going to stop saying that, by the way. So when he's throwing darts he says something about how his father taught him the phrase be curious, not judgmental. And I just like if we could just pause and not go to assumption, to judgment, and go into how can I ask a question that'll help me understand more? I'm like how can I learn? My husband and I struggle with this and we've worked this. We've been together for 14 and a half years.
Speaker 1:Hi, snowball, snowball is so sad she.
Speaker 2:We've been together for 14 and a half years Hi Snowball.
Speaker 1:Snowball is so sad she can't have cookies.
Speaker 2:I know I'm sorry, but you can live vicariously through us.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, that sounds fine. That was me trying to be my dog, I know, okay, okay, I just wasn't sure if you understood.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think it's just a human condition to assume, because we're again talking about this earlier life is going, you know, by us and at us, a million miles an hour, and sometimes the best we can do is assume so we can just continue to move on and continue to move forward. And if we could slow, I just gosh. Could we just slow down? I don't know the answer to how that could happen, because we, I think we are in way over our heads as human beings in terms of like tech and social media and the internet and all this, all the things, but yeah, it's too much.
Speaker 1:It's too much.
Speaker 2:It's here to help us, and it does in many ways, but it also harms us totally, and I think I was hopeful during a pandemic that, like slowing down, was going to happen oh yeah, I was like this is how it's going to be, you guys, and here we are.
Speaker 2:We're worse than we were, and I think if we could slow down, if we could stop and not react, which would help us not assume because, truthfully, like I try really hard and again, not perfect, but try really hard to understand that I don't know what's going on in someone else's life, but I'll still remember. Ooh, ooh, that was a little bit of.
Speaker 1:Did you hear that? Did you just?
Speaker 2:burp. What was that Acid reflux? It wasn't acid, it was a burp that didn't become a burp. So it's like a burr. A burp that never was.
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Speaker 2:So I try not to assume what someone else is going through, but I also have to remind myself too, that that person may not even know what they're going through. Right?
Speaker 2:like so there's so many layers to like the assuming and the you know, it just gets us into so much trouble and I think so much conflict would just be not even resolved but just like not here if we could just ask more questions, pause, clarify or just not even ask questions, just sit and be like I'm the worst because I talk all the time, so I'm going to. I was about to say like we need to stop talking so much. I talk all the time Like I can't stop talking, but one of my biggest goals as a human being is to listen more than I talk. And I'm not I'm'm. You know that's a work in progress, right?
Speaker 1:right, listen, listen before you speak, pause, pause before you speak. Yeah, and that's hard.
Speaker 2:It is really hard, especially since I think we're all just trying to be as efficient as possible and sometimes the desire to be efficient gets in the way of our ability to really you know, stay connected and present with the person we're with yes, which is why I was so excited to come here today. I mean, I probably will have to leave at some point. I can't move in like I promised I would. You can move in, I can't. I got. I got things all right.
Speaker 1:Like I have to fold my socks later, so or you don't really need to fold your socks, just throw them in there. I'll willy-nilly, you don't know I don't, I don't what. What did you learn about yourself once you stopped drinking or did like? Did you learn anything new, like I am learning? So I'm only not to belittle my journey, because I'm kicking ass. I'm almost at 500 days. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:I'm very proud of myself, thank you, and it's also still very new. It's still very new. I didn't realize how many things I was covering up, like I didn't when I was drinking. I knew to a certain extent that I was wanting to not feel some things, but I didn't realize until I stopped how much I had been covering up.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Yeah, it's almost like your body was like holy crap, you just opened the floodgates.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and it's still sort of calming you know um with my illnesses, which you and I both share a lot about yeah, um, zoe is the person I talk. I've said in my podcast before I have one person and that person is zoe, because it's me we both have here's the problem.
Speaker 1:It's you because we both have the same like illnesses that were diagnosed almost the exact same time, yeah, so like I had been covering up some physical pain, some fatigue stuff, but also just, you know, a bunch of mental health stuff that I'm glad that it is, I'm glad that it's opened up like this new world that I can take care of other things now, but it also, in a way, has been like God if I was still drinking I wouldn't have to deal with this, that and the other thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a laura mccohen like zoom call. I was on and someone said I would just. What I would really like right now is just a fuck it button can I just have a fuck it button please? Yes, I don't care what it is, just can I have one? Yeah, and like that's a feeling I have sometimes, like I wish I could like find me a way to tune this out that doesn't go against my, like you know, mission statement or like yeah, yeah, yeah I would love a way to just disappear from whatever this feeling is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I snowball is so sad. I need anyone listening to know that this dog is just fine yep she has a lot of food and treats and a lot of space to the backyard, to roam, but she's not in the same room as us, so that is what the problem is we are the worst.
Speaker 1:We are the worst people. Oh my gosh. Okay, try to tune it out if you can yeah, well, she's going away she heard you? Oh, she heard you.
Speaker 2:That's a joke, because snowball's deaf oh, that is a oh, I oh you didn't. I thought you were making a deaf joke. I did. I did know that, and now I'm feeling like a poop stain.
Speaker 1:Oh no, specifically the stain of the poop, not specifically.
Speaker 2:Let's move on.
Speaker 1:I'm going to move on by having a bite of this cookie.
Speaker 2:The brownie one, please, no, this one. Oh yeah, that one's really good. Um, the milkshake one, uh, so okay, so to answer your question sorry, I just hit the microphone with my cookie. How dare um, I feel it's really good.
Speaker 1:Like that to me is a birthday cake yeah, there's nothing to me that says like this tastes like a milkshake, specifically most definitely not.
Speaker 2:It's very good and vanilla-y it's, it's like my dream but you're right it's like a birthday cake. Like I'm five years old, I I like. The desserts I like are the desserts that my five-year-old likes I love that you have kind of a sweet tooth.
Speaker 1:So do I. I do it's bad.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what my doctor said recently. What listen to what my doctor said.
Speaker 1:My doctor said that the reason I crave so much sweet is because my body is exhausted and it thinks like having a sugar rush or I'm gonna have energy that makes sense yep, yeah, maybe I wonder if that I'll talk to my doctor okay, don't ask, just say I know something that you know, okay, you were saying something awesome, but I don't remember what it was because I was getting a cookie I was gonna try to answer the question because I don't know you, you'd ask me that before we started recording, and I don't know, necessarily, if I know exactly how stopping drinking has helped me heal and grow and I and that's not to say say that it's not something I'm really grateful I've done and I'm not going to continue to do it, and I think that if I work it out here which is how I end up working things out a lot of the time is externally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too. It'll work itself out, so let's do it. I feel emotionally and mentally, like it's helped me open myself up to doing a lot of self-work that I could not do. Like my brain would not be capable of doing if I were drinking in any way like casually or excessively whatever, like I just feel. Like almost two years I felt like my brain kind of like expanded.
Speaker 1:And that's what you said earlier. Yeah, can you. Can you expand on your expansion?
Speaker 2:I just felt like it was almost spiritual, like I just felt like I was having conversations with my husband that were deeper, and not that like our relationship had gotten deeper. I noticed it within myself that I was able to identify, articulate, immerse myself in feelings that were just on a deeper, more emotional level than ever before. And if you know me, I'm an emotional person and if you don't know me, I'm an emotional person. Like that's something I'll never deny.
Speaker 2:Like I'm just very emotionally in tune. I'm highly sensitive, and so to feel like I had kind of like hit like a deeper level of self was really cool. Um, oh, I just I felt like maybe you could the way you could put it is like the space in my brain or in my life that had been occupied by drinking in whatever way, was now available for things that were important to me which was like learning about myself right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and learning how to be a good human or a better human.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've always just wanted to be the best self I can be on a daily basis and I think self-work and being active in your own self-growth is essential to being a good citizen, a good human, like in whatever relationship you're in, but obviously most importantly, your relationship with your own self in your life.
Speaker 2:So that it was kind of this opening for lack of a better term, funny enough, like around that time where I was like I'm gonna stop drinking, I was like I hope that it gives me energy, because I was really struggling with fatigue and I was also working a really intense kind of big time for me job in a corporate setting Up until COVID I was laid off and my job was dissolved and I loved my job but I was overworked, overstretched, overstimulated, and not necessarily 100% because of the job or the position or the company I was working for, but because, like I'm also, I was also I can't, I want to say was, but I still am struggling with perfectionism and like really wanting to make everything I do the best, and I think I really felt that on a very physical level. So like I was like oh, if I stopped drinking maybe I'll just like get a boost of energy, because people do say you do get a boost of energy.
Speaker 1:No, not for me, right, and I'm. I'm going to jump in here too, because that's another thing. I thought I'm going to this. I've been so tired my whole life. Think of the energy that I'm going to get you and me both. I'm going to lose some weight. My life is only going to be better because I stopped drinking, and that part's true. I think my life is better because I stopped drinking Me too, but it just exacerbated the fatigue, or maybe not exacerbatedated.
Speaker 1:That's such an interesting like it opened it up it was like wait a second, I'm, I don't have any more energy, and everyone that I well, with the exception of you that I know that has quit drinking has been like, yeah, my energy went up and I and I was, and I think that's enough. Well, wait, what happened first? Did I quit drinking or did I find out that I had ME CFS? I think I quit, I don't know. I don't know. I think the ME CFS was it. I think that was before.
Speaker 2:And then it was over the holidays when you stopped drinking. It was December 19th, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right from my recollection, but I could. I mean zoe remembers dates like I do, she does.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you actually probably write stuff down because all of a sudden I do. You'll like call me and be like, oh my god, it's your parakeet's birthday. And I'm like, oh shit, it is. That was just an example. You guys, I don't have a parakeet, but I used to when I was a kid his name was peter.
Speaker 2:I loved peter peter parakeet, there was a book about it actually really cute I. By the way, guys, side note, I did not know peter parakeet. I just made a joke about it, but she didn't know, sure. But now I'm gonna ask you about his birthday.
Speaker 1:I'll probably send you I don't know when it is, but like that's one. That's another reason why I was like, wait, something is off with me, because I just got rid of this drug that I've been taking, yeah, and my mind feels a little clearer, but my body doesn't feel any better at all.
Speaker 2:Yep, and like you said again, I want to be super clear on this podcast. Like I think the majority of people get a lot of energy back and do lose weight and like feel better just physically and mentally, and I think you and I are the anomaly I think we just end up, ended up being kind of dealt the crap hand of cards where it's like, well, yeah, you got that. I mean good, good, good job, and now you get to struggle a little bit more, but you're also but you're also sick.
Speaker 2:But you're, and you're gonna realize that pretty badly in the next couple years well what I will say, though, and obviously, like we have not gotten into any depth in regards to, like how challenging, you know, struggles of health have been for me and for you over the past couple years, but what I will say is I'm like, if I have been really, if this has been easy for me, if I've been able to stick with this through a pandemic which you can look at it either way it was easy to not drink because we weren't going out, right, but it was also hard.
Speaker 2:Is there's nothing else to do, right? But, at the same time, like I, I probably I would say the past two years have been the hardest two years of my life. And, yeah, saying that is, for me, saying something. I've had a substantial amount of trauma in my life and to you know, just to highlight a time of your life as, like, the hardest time that you've ever experienced, like that's heavy for me, but what I will say is, like the fact that I haven't wanted to or like had any inkling of, like I should grab, grab a bottle of wine, or whatever it may be like that, to me, is a testament for, like a how easy it's been, but be like how dedicated I am to my health and healing at this point in my life you know and that, um, I don't know necessarily if, like, stopping drinking made my physical ailments or problems come to the surface more.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Right, we can't. That could have happened.
Speaker 2:But what I can say is that, um, I've been able to face my struggles with more grace. I've been able to face my growth and my healing mentally more so than physically, in a way that like I'm like if I would drink and then express, like how I felt it was always like I don't know just like the crappiest way to communicate this, you know, just like way over the top, and that was probably like one of my biggest drawbacks from drinking is I felt like I would drink and then maybe get super emotional right and like I make it sound like it's like whatever, but it wasn't whatever, like that's not a healthy way to communicate with anyone. And so I feel like my the way I approach any situation now is with such consciousness that I would not have had four years ago you know and I'm able to handle things just differently right, right, I don't know you're able to.
Speaker 1:What we were talking about earlier is like practice. The pause, like hold on, I can pause here, yeah, I can pause here. And and think rationally, yeah, I still get cravings. I'm never like, oh, I could go for a delicious pino. It's not that I. I sometimes still just don't want to feel like. I had a situation last week where I knew I wasn't gonna drink, yeah, and I texted Paul and I was like, hey, I'm not going to drink, but I just want you to know that I really want to right now. And we were actually going to go to a party. We went to a party. I bring my own drinks to parties, but I just I wanted someone to know I'm not laughing at that.
Speaker 2:I'm struggling. I have to put a note on that, oh go ahead wanted someone to know I'm not laughing at that.
Speaker 1:I'm struggling. Footnote on that. Oh, go ahead. No, no, you continue. No, I was just saying that, that that that has happened. In fact, one day, I'm gonna look back on this particular year, yeah, which I'll get more in depth about in the future and I'm gonna say wow, you did all of that, sober yes, good for you.
Speaker 2:100, nikki. Yeah, and I don't even know the depths of the of the struggles of the past year, and I feel't even know the depths of the of the struggles of the past year and I feel like I know a lot of the stuff that you've been through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I will say like if for me, in my personal life, if no one else gives me affirmation like, I'm like yeah, fuck, yeah, high five every single day of my life because I'm doing the work, and so are you, yeah, and I see you like, I see that and I see how hard life has kind of been over the past year or two to you and that you're still showing up every day Like that in and of itself, like I'm just, you're an amazing person.
Speaker 2:And I would say that off the microphone as well.
Speaker 1:Well, honestly, I don't cry for me. Why did I pick that song? Because you're about to cry and I was thinking it too. I don't know where I'd be right now if it wasn't for your friendship. The past couple of years, specifically the past couple of years, specifically.
Speaker 1:Literally, you are the only person that I have been able to tell everything to and to not be judged. I tell many things to Paul. Paul's an incredible person. He's an incredible listener, he truly is. He's an excellent partner and he doesn't understand. And I know you don't expect him to no no, no, of course not. Yeah, and I and I'm sort of glad that he doesn't, because I, I don't want anyone to understand what I say?
Speaker 1:the same thing these things are like for us, you know, and I'm not trying to be like, oh poor us, but I'm also just saying like it really effing sucks. Yeah. So you're the only person that I just tell yeah, everything to, and I am so grateful I I hate that we've been going through this stuff. It's so weird, though, because I won't get into the details, but I texted zoe about two weeks ago about another thing that I will feel free to talk about in the future, and I was like, hey, this thing and Zoe, zoe tucks back two minutes later. Oh my God, I just talked to my doctor about this today. I'm like, oh crap, we got another thing we got to do. Um, so yeah, I'm just, I'm I'm so glad that we have each other.
Speaker 2:I wish it was under different circumstances, but like, yeah, I mean, the way I see it now I'm getting into it is that we had each other, you know, at the Pantages and when we had each other at the Chanhassen, and then you know we've had each other through weddings and losses and births and like so, like yeah it's been years of stuff right like major life changes, yeah and then now we're in this really weird time frame where it's like we're both not only on this sickness, bullshit, illness path, but we're also on this like I want to be healthy path, which not everyone is on right.
Speaker 2:It's just like that's a sad truth.
Speaker 1:I want to be healthy, but I also want to eat these cookies.
Speaker 2:You know what? Everyone's got to have a vice. If mine is, yeah well, if mine's cookies, then like wah and like um, I've tried no sugar. It's just not a sustainable. I mean, I've had a couple bites, you had a couple bites.
Speaker 1:We're moderation yeah, everything in moderation.
Speaker 2:We're gonna justify everything anyway, all I want to say is like I really think that and I'm not trying to toxic positivity is just the last thing I ever want to throw at anyone or receive myself right but I do believe that, whatever the next stage or chapter holds, like we've got this and like what has I mean we've had, we've had a pre-life, we've had this current life, and whatever the post looks like, it looks like together, we're going to be together and that's that's the cool part for me, is that like, um, even if it's hey, this is how your life is going to be the rest of your life, and you and I are going to find ways to deal together. You know what I mean? I do um, we can do it. That's a gift, I think, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah oh, can I can I leave it on one note, one extra note yeah, the reason I giggled before and I told you I wasn't laughing at you. Oh, yeah, yeah, can I leave it on one note? One extra note? Yeah, the reason I giggled before and I told you I wasn't laughing at you, oh yeah yeah, what I said, something you did.
Speaker 2:You said you brought your own drinks to parties oh, yeah, yeah um, I do the same thing I, and thank goodness there are so many good like na options. There really are, yes, except by the by. I went to disney world last week. Everyone, their na options in epcot are like bottled water. You're like no negatory. I mean they have a we're gonna change that, but it's like seven alcoholic drinks and then bottled water. I'm like this is the dumbest thing, but it reminds me of one of my favorite comedians, john mulaney oh yeah, you know, john mulaney, right well because you're always like.
Speaker 1:Have you seen this video by john mulaney and I?
Speaker 2:the answer is no okay I going to butcher it right now because I am not a comedian. I like to think so, but I'm really not. But he has this whole. I think it's like on his second or third special. He has four of them. You're going to now want to watch all of them because he's really good, okay. But he has been sober for many, many years. But then he just went to rehab like a year ago for a different addiction, for coke. I mean, it's all kind of combined, but anyway, this was before he went to rehab for coke. But he was sober from alcohol for many, many years and he was like it's funny to go to parties because, like people just don't know how to deal with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this is way before like the sober curious movement has happened over the past few years and he's like oh, you know, I'll walk in a party and people will be like, hey, malaney's here. Hey, I got a turnip in the fridge. Would that be good for you? Like they don't know what to offer him. They don't know what to do that is so true, like they're, like, I know what you don't drink. There's a turnip.
Speaker 1:I know you don't drink, it's really good. You have to watch it now. We were at a party not too long ago and everybody did a shot, oh god and, and I was not offered a thing, and you know what?
Speaker 2:I would have I. I didn't say anything at the time.
Speaker 1:I will next time. Yeah, just the other day we were with friends and they wanted to do a shot, so I was like, okay, so I had a shot of water and that was fine with me and it was fun. Like I still want to do this stuff, I still want to toast.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know what I do. So, and Jonas does it with me now too, we'll have like sparkling water or like an lollipop for dinner, or like you know whatever, and we'll put it in wine glasses yes, because it's fun and it's fancy. And you know what, like my realize it's like more of like the going out thing, that, like that you want to be a part of. Like.
Speaker 2:For me, any cravings I've had have been like I wish I could be invited to xyz yes I wish I could go on the balcony and have like a glass of wine with my husband but it's not about the wine, it's about the, it's the moment yep, it's about the moment and and even though we don't drink, we still like to have the moment you recreate it in whatever way you can. So next time the video is shot, you and I are just going to whip out our water bottles and chug.
Speaker 1:I'll be like chug, chug, chug, we're doing it. I'm so hydrated.
Speaker 2:Sucks for you because you're exactly the opposite.
Speaker 1:Okay, this was fun. We're going to wrap it up for today, but Zoe and I have a thousand other things to talk about, like just a bajillion. I'm sorry, we're just gonna start recording all of our conversations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah you know what I think we should do, what, um, I think we should have a reality tv show and people should just follow us around. Except for the reality tv show would be like two separate cameras in two separate houses. All the time I was just canceling plans with each other, and then not just that, but like one person being like hey, nikki, I can't come today. And you being like, yes, oh, I hope you feel okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh, I feel that to my core, zoe and I cancel on each other constantly and I get really mad and judged no, we don't.
Speaker 2:We never judge each other other yeah, we do all the time it's a safe space.
Speaker 1:It is, and I can just tell her. Here's why, you know, I don't feel well, my body hurts and I get really mad no, and I'm like oh shit me too no problem, all right, I love you. Thank you so much. This was so fun, so honored.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I've so honored honestly, Aw no, I've been like looking forward to this since, like the day you didn't I text you and be like when can I come?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like a year ago. Yeah, you did. I'm glad that you did. All right, everybody Smooches to you all. As always, this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, health or professional advice. I am not responsible for any losses, damages or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice.
