S2Ep20 Brittanie & Kelly with Milk + Honey Lactation

Milk + Honey Lactation

Brittanie, Suzanna, & Kelly

Just your lactation-loving, evidence-based, women-empowering, pumping-savvy LC’s here to bring breastfeeding support to the Eastern Shore.

Transcript

[00:00:00] This is a 302 podcast.

So, do you get whole beans in Man, yes. So, we were talking down there, I used to work at Starbucks, and I'm not a huge fan of their beans, personally. It's a big conglomeration. It smells so good. You get a bag and So it is, I feel like though, that's probably like marketing, right? Like there's such a big, there's such a big group that the beans, I mean, I'm sure it's good at one point at certain point, but once it gets to the consumer, I feel like it's been too long.

So we found a place, little goat roastery in Newark by the college by UD. Have you guys been up there? Oh, man. Next time you do a home visit up in Newark, you're going to swing by there and just get their seasonal drink. It's so good. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So she loves her season. And she, she's a black coffee drinker, but she'll get their seasonal drink.

So the last one was like a cardamom latte of some sort. Oh, that sounds good. Super cozy. Wintertime. Yeah. It's really good. Really good. But yeah, so they roasted up there and I'll buy like five pounds. [00:01:00] Yeah. But anyway, let's kind of get started. So we have Brittany and Kelly with Milk and Honey Lactation and you guys are an interesting business because you started it this past year.

So have you been open a full year now? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So you're in over a year and a year or two now. Um, and stand alone. Congratulations. Yes. You guys are like a standalone lactation consultant, which usually traditionally people would have to go to the doctor and then get referrals. And so it's sort of an empowerment for women here in Kent County and you guys have quickly become wildly successful.

I feel like every single person that I work with also works with you. So, um, it's been really fun to sort of watch you guys grow. Do you want to tell us a little bit about the journey? Yeah. Yes, um, it's such a accomplishment to be into year two. Um, I started the business in January of last year. Um, Kelly, Suzanne and I all actually passed our boards at the exact same time.

We all took our tests, yep, and then we all passed. Um, [00:02:00] so we've all been IBCLCs just as long as each other. Um, I originally started doing home visits in January and, um, It kind of blew up. I was like, Oh, I'm going to, you know, do this kind of part time just on the side just to kind of see how it goes. And then it was pretty much by March.

I left the dental office I was working with. I was on the for neck to me team there. Um, and I I'm going to have to drop down to like one day a week because it's gotten so busy, which is a blessing on its own. Um, but home visits are also very time consuming. It's a lot driving, a lot of time away from my children, less time for charting.

Um, and you're kind of all over the state and Delmarva. So in August, I actually, um, rented a small, space in downtown Camden. And then by December, I was ready to have Kelly and Susanna come on board. And so now there's three of us and we have a much larger space with two clinic rooms and we have a lobby and we're self sustaining, [00:03:00] which is really, really exciting.

Um, I'm blessed to have both Kelly and Susanna with us. Um, because really I felt like I'm not complete. This is not complete until I have. Yeah. Like, it's like you, it's such a emotionally, mentally difficult, um, profession that you really do need to have a team. You can't self sustain with it. I mean, in some places you may do well with it, but when you actually look across the United States, when they do have lactation consultants, they tend to be.

Actually, eventually in a team or a group. What makes this a difficult just to explain to like the listeners on like the challenges that people may not realize you guys face. Every baby's different. Every mom is different. Yeah. And you're working with mom and baby. We're not just working with baby or just with mom.

So working with the Diane and everyone is different and they change daily themselves. So it's hard to, [00:04:00] um, Um, know exactly how to help them best and because the three of us have different backgrounds, we help each other out so much. So we're always, you know, texting or collaborating like, what do we do with this?

I'm like, here, come in and look at this or she'll tell me, come here, look at this baby. Look at this. Help me. So it's nice to have that team approach to collaborate because you have a new set of eyes. So there's times where I, we like to share followups. because I may have not caught something that she catches.

So, I mean, often a new set of eyes, like, I've been seeing this mom for two or three follow ups and I can't, you know, figure out what's going on. She seems to, hey, let's try this. We fix it. So, it's nice that we have that nice flow. We all have the same goal in mind, but we might have different, um, techniques of how we do it.

And, I think, really, I could not think of Two better women to do this with. We are, I feel like such, so alike and our passion. That's amazing. I feel like your office core value has [00:05:00] collaboration in it somewhere. Yeah. A lot of collaboration. I feel like I see a lot of providers where it's kind of same situation where they're in a building with the same.

Providers, but they don't actually ask each other for advice or at least suggestions or, Hey, what do you think about this? They don't like share patients or not share like seeing patients, but more of like ideas with each other and like, Hey, each other and like clinic within the clinic. Yeah. Sometimes it's hard to believe that the two same practitioners are in the same, you know, office together.

Cause they're so different, very different. That's something that we do too. We. It helps that we're married and we drive home together too. So we talk about it, but it does help a ton because I'll see something. I don't, she doesn't see it. She'll see something that I don't see. And I mean, if I was by myself, I would, I don't know, I guess, just not see it or do it or something.

It makes you a better provider too, because I think like ego is not in the way, right? Like you're probably like, Oh, I can, [00:06:00] I have to talk to this cause now the person, I mean really the patients win in collateral situations, which is what's so great. So, um, you guys have come from different backgrounds.

What is the background for everybody? Um, I came from a background of working in OB. I worked to dedicated to women for three and a half years, um, and had my youngest in 2019 and my midwife was the one who actually stated. You should go back to school for lactation. Oh, cool. Um, yes, Holly is amazing. Uh, and so I had no idea that it was actually a profession.

I just thought they had specialized nurses in the hospital that does help with breastfeeding. And Holly stated, no, it's actually a, you can go, it's a, it's a credit, a credential you can get. You go get your hours. So I started it with a three month old baby and it took me three and a half years to do that.

My daughter was four. What three three when I finally passed my boards. So yeah, it took us quite a long time. I love the dedication to that. Yes [00:07:00] So, let's see I Had my two daughters and I was Hell bent on breastfeeding. I didn't even want bottles. I I wanted to breastfeed And I struggled so much with my second one My nipples were tore up.

I had thrush. I had mastitis. She was always on the bottom of the growth chart. I could never pump enough to have a supply. So, if I was not with her, she was getting formula. And, um, Once I, I, I just, I love pregnancy and birth so much I wanted to become a nurse. So after having my daughters, I went to nursing school.

Um, Um, did med surge for a while and then went into women's services and maternity. And once I was there, I realized all the mistakes that I made and I, it was then that I realized that my daughter had a tongue tie [00:08:00] and no one diagnosed it before at all now. Nope. Um, So, you know, working with newborns, I was taught to assess for tongue ties and I was like, Oh, that's what Claire has.

She has a tongue tie. No wonder. Do you ever notice now when people are like, um, adults that you talk to and they have them or you were like, I've ever said the tongue time. Cause you know, it's revision. I can't help it. I naturally like look and I'm like, I noticed. I know. It's kind of awful. You're looking at everyone talking in their mouth and you're like, yeah, they're tight.

I wonder if they know it. You said that the other day and I didn't notice it, but she was like, yeah, this person's got a tongue type. Like, how do you know? She goes, his tongue does just doesn't come out. It doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. It stayed in the back of his throat. So it actually changed the way his voice was.

So I was like. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. She has a pretty severe one because we've had adults, clients who have had revisions. Yeah. And then it's a lot more intensive for an adult to actually, Oh, it was, it was a [00:09:00] long recovery and experience, but for her it was worth it just because hers was so severe and she was like, this has impacted my entire life, including like speech and everything.

So she's like, I think she was 40, but she wanted, yeah, things to change. So yeah, that is fascinating. So it's when you guys see that and then you were looking back and like, yeah, if you don't know, you don't know. Like they're very popular now to notice, but it wasn't really talked about. I feel like until four years ago when I had my youngest, they didn't assess.

I mean, I left the hospital. in discomfort and it was really bad. And then it was more or less, you know, Hey, try nipple shield, try some nipple butter, try different positions. And I want to say it was painful for probably the first eight weeks. I took a long time for it to get better. And I know I wanted a breastfeed, so I didn't have an option.

I didn't, you know, think of alternatives. Um, And I just kind of dealt with it. I'm [00:10:00] thinking like, Hey, there was not many other resources aside from the hospital, there was, I don't think at that point there was anyone else in private practice, at least in Kent and Sussex County. Do you find that's what happens is they kind of just get sent home and that they just have to deal with it?

At times. Yeah. I mean, I did. They'll give up. Yeah. They give up if it's too painful. Who wants to feed their baby when it hurts? Or they'll go to exclusive pumping. Yeah. Which also is a whole different. That is hard. That's a lot of work. It's so much work. We've, we've had friends that do it and you're just like, oh my God, the hours.

And as soon as you're done pumping, then you have to start again. Right. I feel like. Feed the baby. Yeah. You feed the baby. Feed the baby. You clean it and then you go again and you're just like, this cycle is completely time consuming. So if you're pumping your entire life is. Yeah. Pumping. Well, if you're pumping, it's like you're having twins because that pump is another baby.

That's so much. You have to carry it with you and you have a whole nother slew of things, your coolers, your containers. You really should name your pump, like give it a name of a baby. Yes. They have actually pump covers. You can dress them now. [00:11:00] Yeah. Put a picture of a baby on it. It's a comedy list now.

Yeah. I think one of our friends that was, she was saying how, how actually lonely it was too because she just had to go off by herself. It's very isolating. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And. And a lot of times moms feel resentment because dad or someone else is over there feeding their baby while they're sitting there pumping.

Yeah. And they also felt they had to leave the room a lot. So like, yeah, I have to go and do this thing and everybody else gets to socialize during this time and connect and they're not. And it's just a lot, but it's a world. What's interesting. I'm sure you guys see this cause you're in like the birthing world is, you know.

We see a lot of people just don't talk about birth in general. So that's always like, what a surprise. I, and most of our patients that come through with pregnancy, after they give birth, they'll be like, I didn't know because the resources, you know, and the conversations aren't there. And I feel like it's the same with breastfeeding or however you choose to feed your child is there's all these different experiences that you could have about like, you know, breastfeeding.

No one thinks about it because no one's really talking about it [00:12:00] until you have it and you're like, I did not know I would have to pump this much or it would be this difficult to feeding. I thought it would just happen or tongue ties for my child. Like not understanding all of that. I know when. Um, when I was pregnant, I read everything about pregnancy and then I read about giving birth, but I didn't do any looking into what happens after the baby's here.

We all think it's going to be easy. I know the hard parts, the birth babies eat, uh, eight to 12 times in 24 hours. So that's like, sometimes it's every, every hour, every three hours they're feeding around the clock. Wow. Wow. Wow. And if it's not going well, it is exhausting. It's exhausting regardless. But if it's not going well, it's extremely taxing.

Emotionally, physically, mentally, you know?

But you guys are being that resource for, for women now, which is very exciting. Cause I do notice that sometimes, you know, you, you get somebody in the hospital, but sometimes we [00:13:00] don't realize that it's more difficult until they go home. You know, where troubles don't start like right away. Oh yeah, absolutely.

Especially for second and third time moms. If the first time, and they're only in the hospital for 24 hours with a vaginal birth and they're going home and they're like, Oh, well, I latched fine at home. I latched in the hospital. Once they get home and go, this is different. You know, they, they have a whole nother set of problems.

And I think because they're second and third child that they're going to know. So we do get quite a few second and third time moms who are struggling. Um, I think it was. We started doing prenatal consultations. That was one of my big pushes starting the business was we need to have these talks while women are pregnant, not after the fact.

So, and that was taboo because I mean, I think in Kent County, our birth world's a little dry, it's a little bit of a desert and even going into Sussex, uh, Sussex County, it's still, There's I think one, um, there's thrive, which is down near like Maryland and then you go north and there's quite a bit more, but really between that and Salisbury, there's nothing.[00:14:00] 

There really is limited research. I'm starting to practice down south, you know, and, um, it's going to be mainly just for the pregnancy and pediatrics and I've been looking for more locations to connect with and it's so limited that you'd like people to connect with and find in the birthing world. And if people said it was really like.

Not many people were down there, but I have been shocked considering, you know, there's a lot of people at the beach and there are people that live there. It's not that seasonal. It's not that seasonal anymore. Not anymore. Not anymore. There's families. The schools are all full. And I just think, where are people going?

We have families driving. I, uh, we have families coming from Ocean Pines, Berlin, driving an hour and a half to come see us. Wow. Wow. Which is, I mean, that's so good, but also this is why are we in Delaware not able to serve, you know, enough people to pop for this population sounds like you need to open a second practice.

I know. I would love to. We would need more lactation. That's the same thing with chiropractic too. We're like, where do we, [00:15:00] like, no one really wants, unless you're really from this area. Yeah. No one really wants to come back to this area in my opinion. I agree. Or. Or do they go into like, um, not really family care, but it's more into, uh, you know, like other general.

Yeah. And like you said to a lot of chiropractors are just moving up north Wilmington area maybe. Oh yeah. It's so much more dense up there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Closer to Philly, I guess. Yeah. And of course, when you go towards those more metropolitan areas, they have, I mean, you go towards DC, they have everything there.

Um, but families really don't want to have to drive over the bridge and drive to two and a half hours to get care. They really shouldn't have to. So I know how you just open up your office in Lewis. Yeah. Well, you need more of you too. It's like you could put offices, but to be able to spread yourself, you have to learn that work life balance to like, I would, I would talk for a while about having a Sussex County office and I'm just, it's hard.

Yeah. No, it is. And you want like minded. Yeah. [00:16:00] Yes, absolutely. People working with you. Yeah, yeah. There's not, there's not many. It's, you know, so in the field, just so like, to help clarify, 'cause a lot of people don't realize, you know, every field has a lot of diversity in it. People often, if you're not in it, you go, Mm-Hmm.

I know they do it for us. Like chiropractic, you must just do these things. Everyone's the same. Everyone's the same. Yes. And it's, you know, there's a lot of specialization and I'm sure with you guys, so can you tell us some of the differences people might like experience depending on what, where they go for lactation?

I would definitely say we're more holistically based. Yeah, we're We focus on oral function. We're very holistic. We treat mom, we treat baby, and um, We do a lot of body work. We recommend a lot of body work. So we don't just look at what's going on at the breast. We also look at what's going on with baby's body.

Um, because we know it's the whole, the whole package. Um, for some reason that's controversial. Yeah. I don't know why, but I mean, that's like taboo in our profession. I mean, it's very taboo in a profession to recommend body work. Is that crazy? Do not [00:17:00] send your infant to a chiropractor. They will hurt them.

Yeah. Because adults get adjusted and then they're like, Oh, I'm thinking about bringing my child in. But are you doing to them what you do to me? And we're like, there's no, yeah, it's actually one of the hardest things is how much, um, Like, even it's not, it's, I think younger parents are really open to it, but they also get kicked back from one.

They're pediatrician and pediatricians hate us for whatever reason, not all of them. There's a few that own, but like other, other medical doctors are really supportive and refer people to us. But pediatricians specifically, um, I had a meeting with, um, two from down south and they openly told me they were like, all these false things about the profession.

I was like, well, that's not truly where do you get your information? They're like, well, we read it on Wikipedia. like, Wikipedia. I assure you not. Um, I, it was shocking to me. Like they wanted to claim to be evidence based, but they were like, we, we think you would hurt people. And I was like, you can come, you can come to a visit.

Like you're more than welcome to. [00:18:00] Yeah. Have you ever, have you ever talked to my first chiropractor you've talked to? Yes. And I, you know, have you ever came to an office and saw pediatric adjusting? Well, no. Are you interested? No, I actually don't. They, they, but it's not just us. They were against it. Like, um, pediatric dentist, cause they didn't like, they wanted to control every aspect of it.

Yeah. But it's like very often though. Yeah. But it's like, I find those kids that were suffering because what we do, like it, when we, when you refer a baby to us and then we work on them, their life gets better and then your job's easier. Right. So it's very synergistic. And so it's wild to me that somebody who's supposed to care for people wouldn't, wouldn't You know, say, Oh, this helps because then you also are helping your patient get better and you're still going to be complimentary.

Yes. They work together. So great. But also all of our families that go back and tell them, tell them how much better your baby feels, how much better breastfeeding feels. They don't know unless you tell them they have this one mindset, but if volume and [00:19:00] number of families come back to them and state this helped tremendously because for the families you're holistically based.

And honestly, that's what more people want. They really do want more like options. That's not just focus on this one thing. Yeah. Right. Information on evidence based birth and evidence based feeding. And obviously we have a lot of anecdotal evidence too, just based on what we experienced in the practice.

Right. But nobody's doing a lot of research on breastfeeding. No, it doesn't make money. They don't realize we are so parallel fields to be as chiropractic. It's the same. There's not a lot of money in the research. So, right. Well, it's also, we can't do double blind studies. How do you fake adjust somebody?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that's a lot of the research. Or you're doing like the wrong adjustment. But you can't fake adjustment. So you can't like fake breastfeeding and. No. Right. Do these. It's either happening or it's not happening. Like. Well, you know what? There is so much research dumped into, um, pumping cows.

There's so much money to be made off of getting cow's milk. So [00:20:00] they, there's so much science and research that goes into proper flange sizing and keeping the cows calm and not letting them be stressed. Oh my God. So we know how to keep mastitis away better with cows than we do. Yes. In our population. Yes.

And do you know? The flange size that they use on cows is a 25 millimeter. When you get your breast pump in the mail, or wherever you get it from, it comes with on, usually it's 24 millimeter and 27 millimeter, sometimes 28 millimeter. Why? And most women are about a 17 millimeter on average. So why? Why are you based on cows?

Because they're comparing us to cows. Oh my gosh. Is it really based on cows? So they're sending us stuff for bigger than cow. Yes. Yep. We went to a conference two weeks ago and they actually handed us all a cow flange and it was 25 millimeters. Oh my gosh. I didn't think about that. That is wild. It's a mammal.

Yes. [00:21:00] Wow. And so 17 is what you said. Can you order? What's the average? Can you find, you know, the size sizes. Okay. Just on the internet. The smallest ones they have are 13 millimeter. Yes. Mm-Hmm. . Yep. I think we have, so there's more options out there than people realize. Yes. Yep. You just gotta get a flange insert.

Mm-Hmm. , the inserts fit inside of the flange. Yeah. To make it a smaller size. They do make some hard flanges. Um, everyone responds differently to the type of material. So if a mom does not respond great to the silicone, she could try using the hard flange, but they do have sizes. I think they have finally realized, but the pump companies refuse to make the bigger sizes or the smaller sizes.

So Amazon and like smaller brands have taken over that. Yeah. Well, at least there's people that are like recognizing it. And luckily we have places to sell them and find them, which is important. I think resources is probably one of the big things you see. You should not, it shouldn't be painful to pump or breastfeed.

But that's the story from the time you get pregnant. I'm sure you've noticed is like, we see it as [00:22:00] like that pain you have, okay. Okay. That's normal. That's normal. Okay. It's common, but it's not normal. We say that all the time. Don't we? Because we see it all the time. It's not normal. Yeah. And if you're having discomfort in anything, whether it's breastfeeding, your pregnancy, it's a sign your body's communicating, right?

Like something's not functioning, right? Let's get down to how to get things to function. Exactly. Something is not functioning. Yeah. You can use that. We're going to use that. You can. We should. It's like red flags, you know? This may happen, but this is this really should not be happening, right? I feel like we and also going into like we really health.

So we talked to our family starts in the gut. Yes. What do you tell them? What are some of the tips for gut health? Eating a nice clean diet, um, probiotics, um, breast milk does have pretty about us and probiotics, but, um, they've done research that. Infants in the America actually have less of B. Infantis, and that actually affects a lot of breaking down, um, of things, and [00:23:00] that puts babies more at risk for things like allergies, and, and Yes.

Hmm. So in other countries, their infants have higher risk. Colonization of the infantus, which is directly comes from breast milk. Um, so with, you know, antibiotics, um, no, you guys are being real controversial now, aren't you? I love that. Watch out with conversations that need to be had though. And I think it's important to hear from multiple providers, um, because if, you know, if you visit mainly holistic providers, you're going to hear the same stuff of, you know, I can't tell you how many people do not understand.

Do not know they're not told they're given antibiotics. I'm not told, Hey, you have to take a probiotic afterwards because it kills everything. Right. Including for your little baby. Cause they just getting started with. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Yeah. Especially like our C section mamas, anyone who may have been treated for a group B strap and they would give them antibiotics.

They all really should be taking probiotics right off the get go. Um, a lot of these babies in the NICU are getting antibiotics. Yeah, [00:24:00] absolutely. Um, and if they receive like even any formula too, they really should, um, be paying attention to taking a probiotic. Any mom that we have in the office, if the baby is getting formula or is formula fed, I always recommend a probiotic in conjunction with it.

Now, do you recommend the probiotic for the infant or for the mom? Both. I'll have both mom and baby. Yeah. Probiotics are good for the breast health too. Yeah. They are a diet, so they, they affect each other. So mom's gut health actually does affect baby. Okay. And we want our babies pooping daily, not once a week.

We do. Stop telling mom poop is important. Once a week is not, it might be common, but it doesn't mean that it's normal. Oh yeah. Yeah. We see, yeah. Yeah. Baby's coming for two reasons for little ones to come in, but it's painful. That's the thing is they're really, they're really uncomfortable. Um, And it's really just like for our, from our part, we're seeing a lot of nervous system, but it all goes, it's all connected, right?

So the gut health and the nervous system and the brain [00:25:00] health all are just a cycle, right? So it's just depending on where you want to start at, but it's, it's definitely like an epidemic that I feel like we have here. They got brain connection. Oh yeah. If gut health is off, then brain health is off and vice versa.

We do hold talks on that. Yeah. That's like the second brain. Yeah. Talks to everything. Cause the vagus nerve, right? So it's like the nervous system connects the two, but they're like, you can't affect one without the other. And so, um, but it's just not, it's not a conversation that's, you know, people get unless they do go see a more holistic provider.

Like they're not getting it at their regular doctor. Normalizing these conversations is super important. I mean, if you look at traditional, I think the American woman going through her maternal years that you go to have a child, you go to your OB, they see you once every four weeks, once every two weeks, and then your weekly, and then you have your baby and then you're not seen for six weeks.

Yeah. That's a long time. Yeah. Very long time. Yes. A lot can happen. A lot can happen in that time. [00:26:00] But your baby is seen, if not, you know, weekly. They're seen pretty frequently. And those times. And so depending on what providers are really in your pocket, you're only coming into contact with your pediatrician and then your OB at six weeks.

And that's, that's scary. You should have a lot more providers in your pocket. I mean, you should have a pelvic floor therapist, physical therapist, chiropractor, doula. Midwife, like there's so many more providers that should touch and see that, that mom and baby and that dyad, um, to be able to assess them, not just for emotional health, but mental health.

I mean, we refer for mental health quite a bit. Yes. Yes. It's so hard. It is so hard. And as moms, we feel like we have to take it all on ourselves, you know, when we weren't meant to do this alone. No, we weren't like the village, the village mindset and it's difficult because we live far from our families. I think more often than not now, whereas we would have seen our moms or sisters or cousins breastfeed and give [00:27:00] birth.

So we knew about birth. I mean, as a little girl you would see it happen and then throughout your adulthood. Now our first birth tends to be our own. Yeah. That's terrifying. Yeah. A lot of times people are holding a baby for the first time and it's their baby. Right. I've never held a baby before. Yes. Yeah.

And so you learn by visualizing, like I, I love, um, I keep baby, we both have baby dolls in our offices because we have children in there. The children will actually pick up the baby and they will pretend to feed their baby. They hold the baby while their mom's holding their sibling. So they're learning.

Doing that gives me chills thinking about it. That's awesome. You know, like that is so important. Um, and I mean, even at home, like I normalize, like both my girls know what I do for a living. My oldest, she's almost 11 and, uh, her teachers obviously all know what I do too. And then her classmates and their parents will know too.

Um, but just normalizing those conversations about birth and our health and like, I want my daughters. To know about these things. I know that like they matter. Their, their [00:28:00] mental health matters. Their emotional well being matters. Everything's empowering. Yeah. You know, the more you know, and it's normalized, like this is my body.

These are things that happen. Here's what health looks like. Here's if there's signs of things not right. We're just empowering someone to make a difference in their own life versus just wait till you're in severe pain, sick, and. Yeah. Not functioning well, not be able to do anything. Then you can do this medicine.

Yeah. Then you can go ahead and get help. Sit at home and wait till it gets worse. Yeah. But we always say healing's not done in isolation because, and even if it's not your family, being even around other moms, you know, a lot of moms do feel isolated. They don't feel, well, they don't really know where to go for that connection.

And so they're just like at home being like, okay. You know, maybe it's me and my husband and, you know, it's just like a very isolated experience. It seems like we have a lot of military families here. We have a huge military population. And so when we have those families come in, they. They, their family might be in Texas and California.

They don't have anyone, but literally each other. So luckily military finally, um, [00:29:00] increased their maternity and paternity leave. I noticed that we're making changes here. I was very impressed by that. Um, the state now has 12 weeks paid for both parents, um, which is really great. It doesn't matter if it's the birthing person or not, they both get it.

Um, and I want to say coming in, what, 2025 or six, it's going to be mandatory. That they have maternity paternity leave and I think to an extent that's awesome. Yeah. Yep. It's so necessary. It just kills me that, um, a lot of employers will give six weeks, you know, to a mother who gave birth. Yeah. Six weeks.

And you can't take a puppy away from its mother until it's eight weeks old. And at that time it's running around and eating kibble, but a newborn baby can be taken from the mother and the mother goes back to. Well, some of the worst are hospitals and they know better. You would think that healthcare as a nurse, you may get six weeks, you know, well, you can [00:30:00] always look at a company's values by how they treat their employees.

Yeah, you really can. And so, um, yeah, I mean, I, we can talk about the hospitals and stuff, but it is a great spot for emergency care, but for true health, I mean, you just don't, there's not healthy programs there. And if they're doing that to their employees, my goodness, that's awful. Yeah. Profit over everything else.

Yeah, we were just at a, like a mastermind. Um, Yeah, maybe about a week ago. And it was like this weird, interesting utopian city town outside of Atlanta. And they were looking and they wanted the holistic. So they have a farm, they grow all their stuff. Their, um, sidewalks have like blueberry bushes out there.

It's like all like very local foliage. And the CEO of the place came and spoke at this, at the mastermind. And he tried to get, um, kind of like their Bay health. the big hospital to have like, offices down, like have a satellite out there. Like we're looking for holistic pro we're looking for providers.

Because this is [00:31:00] kind of like a small town we want to bring everything here. Like a one stop shop and all the hospitals told him, no. No, because we're not in that game. Right. And then he said, they would lose money. They will lose money because his job is to keep people not getting sick, preventative care.

Yes. And the hospital said, we don't want that. Yeah. And so they didn't come in. It was very lucrative. It's not lucrative if you go to a place like that. That like the kids were all makes money. If people are healthy. Well, I think he boasted that they have a preschool. They're 100 percent zero asthma. Of all of the, of all of the kids.

And he goes, that's like almost unheard of anywhere right now. And it's holistic, you know, they, what is they like, even the architecture and like the building of it was like very like natural, like there was no, what are those things where like, it's like the big cylinders and like, that's where the sewage water goes through.

Through the city. Do you know what I'm talking about? Like when they like build a town and like, they put that in there, like at what water drainage or different drainage where you have those ponds, but they're not really useful to have one. So this guy was like [00:32:00] around it and like really. And so if you go there, it's like actually all like meets, it's a very green and not like in a political green way, but actually like everything functions together and it's good for the land.

Yeah. Like what were there? They had just like. Like burned some of the ground to like re I don't even know what it's called. Like for regrowth? Yeah. Yeah. Re and then they put like straw over it and they're just like, instead of putting on, um, it's for the nutrients too, for that instead of doing, um, like traditional farming and spraying chemicals, they were using that too to put stuff back into the Yeah.

Controlled burns are really better. Yeah. No Ed lawns, it was like all natural growth in their front, in all the houses. Front yard. Yeah. They don't like lawns where you mow. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. It was like really cool to see. But, but that's what, but then. Um, I was like, why are these five year olds running around with like bare feet in this community and like no parent supervision, but it was just like a safe place.

Like, I know it's not accessible for everybody, but part of the reason like no asthma is cause you know, the studies show, look, we grew up on a farm. You know, in outdoors, basically they use the stays on farms, but if you're [00:33:00] outside a lot, you're less likely to get allergies just because of micro exposure over time.

Um, and so that is, that's one of the reasons they don't have it. It's because they have access to the outdoors and going barefoot is so, you know, grounding or anything is so beneficial. We have the, we have the bottoms of our feet, have the most pores of anywhere in our body. Your body gets a lot of input from the ground.

Yeah. I try to make him go barefoot all the time. Growing up in the city. It's still like, you don't go outside barefoot all the time. And he'll be like, why are you out here? Yeah. The closest I'll be is no socks in my Berks. I'll walk outside. That's like the closest I might go. Exposed feet and sandals. But they have like those grounding sandals.

They do. Like I have some with, that have copper on the bottom. So you're, yeah. Yeah. Grounding with sandals. Yeah. Well, I do love how holistic you are. And then mainly in the sense of like, you really guys are caring for [00:34:00] everybody and not just the little one in latching, but the moms need care too. And you guys are a huge resource for them.

So that's really, really special on what you guys have been creating. Um, what is some of the things that you wish, you know, you're seeing a lot of people and a lot of moms come through. I'm sure there's common themes. Um, what are some things that you wish you could just tell, you know, All moms or they could all know, or, or especially those that are breastfeeding or starting out or anything along those lines, what are some things that you're seeing a lot that you wish you could just pass on?

Advocate for yourself and your baby. Yeah. And. Come see us because even if you think everything is going well, we can help improve it. There's always room for improvement and prevention, preventative care, absolutely preventative care. So we do a lot of weight checks on babies. So just come in. I, I know. I love doing the weighted feeds where you, what we do is we have baby in only a clean diaper.

We weigh them, [00:35:00] mom, nurses, baby, and then we weigh them again and we can see exactly how much they transfer. So a lot of times when parents are going back to work, they're like, how much do I put in the bottle? Well, let's see how much they take at the breast. And, um, it's not just coming to us if you have a problem.

Yeah. So it can be very solution oriented. It sounds like, and we love listening to our families. We welcome both parents. We welcome siblings, you know, bring the whole family because it's all about the family. Everybody is involved. And I'm sitting relaxed. Like I've had some moms that come in there to say, I just wanted to weigh the baby.

I want to stay here. Feed. Yeah. Have a conversation. I think sometimes they just want that, like. Peace of mind to know everything's going well, but they also want to just come and relax some kind of safe space and oh my gosh, that's kind of unload what's been going on at work and almost everything. Yeah, it's like a therapy session.

Yeah, it really is. It is a lot. What we do is is definitely like mental health related and just, you know, it's okay. [00:36:00] And there's not even a copay, so yeah, we are big on insurance coverage. So that was one thing like I wanted access to care, not just, you know, we are getting to a point where we're having paid maternity leave in the United States, but a lot of women still aren't at that point or they're single income households and you.

It's important that we have access and this way, if you're concerned about your baby's weight, it's not like, okay, is this a matter of paying this bill or is this bill or getting help to breastfeed and come on in, we'll get you covered. Yeah, you're not going to turn anyone away. But we also help with formula feeding parents, we help with bottle feeding.

Um, yep. Transitioning to solids and yeah, baby led weaning. And so that's really, um, you know, something I think really, we really want to touch base on to, I think as a whole as a practice is, it wasn't always just about putting baby to the breast because really there's this body of [00:37:00] group of moms who really don't get support, like no one tells them how to prepare formula.

No one tells them how to bottle feed, so we come in or to pump. Yeah, there's this huge, huge group of, of women that are very underserved and um, they tend to be the ones that have the most problems. They are having babies with reflux and, um, gonna find out because they're overfeeding or the bottle flow is too fast and they're told to just add cereal to bottles and give them.

Reflex medication, right? Not a solution. It's not a solution. No bandaid. What's the root cause? We're all about how do we get to the root cause? What is the problem? And then we can move forward from there. And often when it comes to a bottle feeding consult, it is just a matter of giving a solar flow nipple, looking at how, you know, Bottle fees going pace bottle feeding, lifting that baby.

So they're horizontal and that they're vertical in the book, the bottle is horizontal and you know, we're seeing sucks and swallows, not just scoping. But we also do oral assessments for that reason, because we often find that, [00:38:00] um, families who may have went from breastfeeding to bottle feeding may have had issues in the beginning that led them down that path and almost always they're still having feeding problems.

Those don't go away with switching to bottle feeding. Mm hmm. Yeah. That's it. That's a huge thing that most people are like, what now I'm trying this and it's still not working. Yeah. Um, so just switching from it. It's not always the answer. Yeah. Yeah. And we ask moms, what do you want to do? What is your goal?

How do you want to feed your baby? Because you know, some moms will breastfeed their baby, but they don't like it if they feel pressured to do it. They feel social pressure. They have pressure from family or from, you know. Yeah. Their partner or whatever. Or their experience they had from birth. I mean, after, depending on where their birth place was, you know, there is such a pressure sometimes to breastfeed.

And if that mom still wants to give her baby breast milk, she deserves the support. I think it's always like, uh, the, the mindset is it's one way or the other, you know, Oh, [00:39:00] well, if I don't want to breastfeed or I can't get breast milk, there's like a lot of intense conversation too. There's so much shaming around how you choose to feed your child.

It's wild. Yeah. It's wild. Yeah. But people should have the choice. Mm hmm. And I mean, a lot of it stems from birth trauma. I mean, you have a mom who had a long labor, difficult birth. Their mindset on feeding changes pretty rapidly over this course of those days. She may have wanted to breastfeed or wanted to bottle feed, but she goes home and she's in a relaxing place, comfort of her home.

And she's like, Hey, I kind of want to try this. And those moms need a lot of support because they're, they may feel less confident about breastfeeding for that reason. Mm Yeah. A lot of babies that end up in the NICU, um, are given bottles right off the bat. And then moms are just like, well, like they've already been getting the bottle.

So I guess we'll just go home and keep doing the bottle. But, um, we have had babies that have been bottle fed for months and mom really would like to breastfeed so we can get [00:40:00] them back to breastfeeding. Yeah. Most people realize that might be a choice. Yeah. Yeah. It's a choice. Absolutely. Absolutely.

That's amazing. I know it's always so exciting when, when we can get a baby that's been exclusively bottle fed back on the breast and exclusively breastfeeding moms often feel like, well, we've just gone too far. There's, or they've not been doing it right. No one has ever asked, like, how do you want. to feed your baby.

What is your short term goal? What is your long term goal? That's probably the third question I ask. You know, we sit down for a consultation is what is your goal for our visit today? What is your goal overall with feeding? And I think that's important because the mom sits there for a second and has to think about it.

Someone's actually asking me this question. Oh my gosh, yeah. You care what I want, right? Wow. Well, that's one of the things you did bring up earlier is like advocating, um, what are some ways that you feel like women have more, um, or should be advocating for their health? Being informed. Asking questions.

[00:41:00] Yeah. They can say no. Hmm. Hmm. It's okay to say no to things. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Curiosity. You like asking why? Yeah. Why? What is the evidence? What is the reasoning? What is the risk? What is the medical indication? Hmm. Do you feel like, um, women are fearful of doing that? Absolutely. Yes. Mhm. Why do you think that is?

The response they're gonna get? The pressure, the fear. Yeah, there is a lot of that. There's also, um. We also ask, are you, are you sleeping with your baby while they're in a bassinet next to the bed? Well, we're not against co sleeping. You know, I say, well, we're not against co sleeping I think we all co slept with our babies and and then parents will say, oh we actually do sleep with the baby We just we're afraid to say anything.

Yeah, like this is a safe place. Like we we want to know those things I did not realize. But let's talk about how safe it is. And so we talked about how [00:42:00] to safely sleep with your baby, but everyone's sleeps better. I didn't realize. Um, cause sleeping was so controversial until I was in practice and people would lean in and they'd be like, they're like getting a health history after I like this part of it.

And they'd be like, da, da, da, they're like, We're like whispering, like it blew my mind. Cause I was like, wow, this is such a, you know, cause we always take history in a very like objective view. Like, there's no judgment. I'm just collecting data. So I can like help give more. I'm same with, I feel like any good provider does that.

And it's, It's, um, but it's fascinating, like just to see reactions of certain questions and that like admission, like the guilt, they're like, Oh, I really need to tell somebody that. But I was like, how wild that something so like bad or negative, like connotations or conversation that you feel like you can't mention it because when we make something like that, how can people get educated or understand more or know that there's safe ways of doing it without.

I mean like, [00:43:00] statistically looking, we have the highest postpartum depression rates, lowest breastfeeding rates. Yeah, highest rates of SIDS. Yep, highest rates of SIDS, our mortality rate is awful, and you look at other countries and they openly co sleep, they're a family, they have a family bed, family room.

Um, you know, they have floor beds and they sleep with their infants, their children, like there's obviously safe ways to do it. Um, but I think also like normalizing those conversations because we want to teach families the safe way to do it, following guidelines versus, you know, you know. The non safe ways.

Right. You would never tell someone to or not to do something, but what do you want to do? And let's see how we can do this safely. Yeah. The safest way. Yeah, you're meeting where they're unempowering them with what their choices are. Because there's a lot of ways to raise a child correctly. Yeah. So I like to remind people, you can, you don't have to do the same as everyone else.

You can do whatever you want, really. And what is happening is people are being left out. Scared away from healthcare. Oh, interesting. Because the shame, the fear, [00:44:00] you know, and you're seen as a difficult patient. Right. And so they just aren't going. Hmm, interesting. Yep. Or, you know, they're seeking, and it's hard to find more holistically based providers too, like ones that allow you to have freedom of your healthcare.

Mm-Hmm. , that's very hard to do. I know. We've definitely had an increase in. Um, like home birthing, like our home birth midwives are pretty close with. Um, so we have a lot of referrals back and forth with them. Um, but because they're more holistically mindset listening to women's bodies. I mean, when it comes to those, like the birth center and home birthing is the midwife is just a bystander.

She just, yeah, no touch. Yep. Mom done and support people and partners are basically the players in the game and she watches and she's a referee in the hospital. This would drive me nuts. But Oh, who delivered your baby? Which doctor delivered your baby? There's no doctor that delivers a baby. A mom births a baby.

[00:45:00] Pizzas are delivered and mothers birth their babies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so, I've never heard that before, but that's really good. Yeah. I mean, when you say, when you put it like the doctor did it right, literally take everything that the woman just went through away from them. Yeah. Like everything.

Yeah. Yeah. And I do think like birth would definitely be a session in power. I mean, obviously you guys, but too, like it should be empowered in the number of people that, you know, come out of it feeling like. They were violated or it just wasn't how they wanted. And birth trauma. Birth trauma. Yeah. And a lot of that comes from the medical community and how they responded to the mom.

Well, and women don't have time. These, they don't have time to process it. I mean, you kind of, you're in the hospital for maybe 24 to 48 hours, and then you're discharged home, and then it, it takes time because your mindset goes straight to your child. Mm-Hmm. . So it's, you know, four to six weeks later that.

The, the parent finally gets to unload all of that. Like your body does that on purpose that [00:46:00] pushes trauma to the back. Well, your hormones also are like completely different. And once they get back to normal, you're like, Oh my God, what did I get through? What happened? Yeah. For us, like we, we hear the stories.

I mean, we, it's a lot to carry. It's a very heavy weight to carry at times, but we asked to, yeah, we're like, um, how are you? How are you doing? How was your birth? Tell us. Do you feel like you have to ask multiple times before they like share sometimes? Yeah. I get initial initials. Like I'm fine. We're always, always.

It's probably the first people to ask them. I have had so many mom just unloading, like they're just tears and very emotional. There's so much focus on the baby that, you know, we're like, how was your birth? How do you feel? You know, are your support people helping you or are you getting support at home?

Yeah. You know? And that's like a very good question. I mean, when we have the partners come in, it always makes me happy when the partners actually answer the peas and poops. Yeah. The mom's like, I, I have no idea. Ask my partner. And usually they're the ones that know. What's going on there? That's good.

That's like, that's keywords for us that we know that they're getting that support at home. [00:47:00] Yeah. Yeah. We've talked about that before too, where it seems like. Pregnancy is all about the mom. And then when birth happens, like mom's no one talking to mom ever again. Right. Yeah. It's all a kid focus or a baby focus and everything.

Yeah. Yeah. I know that we talked about, um, like isolation sometimes with mom and baby. What are the things that you can share, like our listeners that are husbands or the dads or the partners? Like what are some key things that they should look out for for their partner in terms of like emotional or physical or like things that like, Oh, maybe they can be supportive.

Yeah. Ways that they can be supportive. They can burp the baby, dress the baby, change the baby, bring the birthing person their food, their drinks, um, you know, looking out, feeding the mom, feed mom, she wants to eat, believe me. She does not want cold food, she does not want cold coffee.

Um, and breastfeeding moms, um, pumping is breastfeeding by the way, but breastfeeding moms need to consume at [00:48:00] least an extra 500 calories a day and protein. You need one gram of protein per pound of body weight really, and to stay so hydrated. And it's hard to get that in when you're taking care of a baby, you're like shoving a granola bar in your mouth as you're sitting on the toilet.

Yeah. Yeah. And that even goes into like preparation for that. Like while you're still pregnant, I think, uh, during even like our pre needles, I had a mom, her manual was very impressive. I actually wanted to share this with you, Kelly. I told her, I want a copy of this. Like, can you take out all of your information and just give me a copy?

But she had this, I had like 15 different. Categories in it of exactly. She said, when I had this baby, I don't want anyone to ask me what I need. They can look at that and they can check off the list. Laundry. You can bring me a cup of coffee. You can bring me this food. It's all in the fridge. Just heat it up.

Oh yeah. That's awesome. She said that she was very thankful for it after, because when you're in that mindset, you're not really thinking about what yourself [00:49:00] needs, like what you need, but it's in there. That's perfect. I know. You should just hand that out for every mom. That's what I was thinking. I was like, I need a copy of this.

And I, you know, I've had several same sex couples and that's pretty amazing because women think the same, you know. They're like, I know what to do. Men don't think the same as we do. And um, you know, they, they, they do. They, they both know exactly what the baby's last weight was, how much they're eating, all of that, all the, all the information.

And I had said to this one couple one time, it must be so nice. You know, you, you're both on top of it. And she said the birthing mom said, I don't even have to ask for anything. She just knows what I need and I love it. Some, some couples have that, you know, but a lot of times that, I mean, it's true. Men don't think the same as women do and, um, it's hard as a mother to ask for help and to say what you need.

[00:50:00] Um, so I love when both parents are there because a lot of it is working with the dad and helping him understand. Recognize things that he can do to help out in ways that he can really pitch in and things to look for with helping mom. I think it seemed to like this because you breastfeed doesn't mean that, you know, dad isn't an active part of the family.

Baby's routine when they really need to do all of the other things. If you have animals, other children, um, I think it's hard going from one kid to two child to two children because the other child needs attention and you know, the schedule and the routine with the other one to keep them in that, you know, that's your support person's job.

Mom needs to rest and hold her baby. That's her job and everything else. And we tell families all the time too, you don't need someone to come to your house and hold your baby. So if anybody wants to come and help you, they can bring you food, they can run the [00:51:00] vacuum, they can do the laundry, they can empty the dishwasher.

But sometimes somebody needs to tell them that. So I like to tell dads, you, you help other people. Find ways of helping out because as the mother were so vulnerable and our hormones are all over the place, just telling people how they can help you. It's so helpful because so many people want to help, you know, we feel good when we help other people and so telling them how to best help you is going to benefit everybody.

But people think coming to the house and holding the baby so that you can get rest or something is helpful and that's really not helpful. Yeah, you want to hold your baby. Maternity leave is not very long in our country. So you want that entire, every bit of that time with your child. That's short time that they're that little and adorable, but also like they're new to you too.

You know, I was thinking about this and I was like, Oh yeah, this is mom. This is the new, there's still new, a new baby that you get to, you're [00:52:00] learning about a new person. Yeah, about each other. Um, and skin to skin is so important. So skin to skin is babies only in their diaper against your bare chest.

That's beneficial in so many ways. Um, and that's kind of awkward to do when you've got family or friends visiting. Yeah, absolutely. Well, um, I do, I know we're getting up on like an Uber time almost, but, um, we have a lot to say. I know. I never, I've applied to do like, have you guys have had back in a different season too.

Um. So I do have a question on tongue ties because it's something that a lot of people, it's very prevalent right now. Do you feel like they're increasing or we're noticing them more or what is your take on all of? Both. Both. I would say both. So what I explain to families a lot is, um, back in the 50s and 60s was when formula really came out and the formula companies just were [00:53:00] pushing their product.

They had a product to sell and they convinced pediatricians and parents that this was the best thing to feed their babies. Um, at that same time, Um, food industry really began processing foods a lot more and adding in or fortifying their foods. And folic acid is one of the things that everything is fortified with.

Every bread, every flour, every cracker, everything has folic acid added to it. Um, so at this time, a lot more parents were bottle feeding with formula. Uh, people that breastfed. We're low income because they couldn't afford formula. Yeah. Yeah. Formula fan. Yes. Cool. Hip. A lot of wild. Yeah. Like more women are probably in the workplace.

They didn't have pumping. Got to get to work. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So, um, formula made it great for mothers to get back to work and be productive and bring in an income and, you [00:54:00] know, formula was the solution to so many things. Um, so, so many babies were then formula fed from a bottle and, uh, Um, these tongue ties were not really seen years ago with home birth midwives.

It was claimed that they would keep a longer fingernail. And when a baby was born, if they had a tongue tie, the midwife would use her fingernail to clip. Oh, yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. And then they would just pass baby to mom and they'd breastfeed and it wasn't even like a question. Yeah. And so now the pendulum is swinging back the other way.

A lot more moms are breastfeeding now because we realized that, you know, breast milk is the best thing. Human milk for human babies. Um, cow's milk for baby cows and so on and so forth. Um, So we're all, we're doing a lot more breastfeeding and this folic acid supplementation is great at preventing neural tube defects, [00:55:00] but there's also additional tissue growth that happens with this body.

Yep. And, um. Yeah. So we are seeing more, but we're also getting better at diagnosing them as well. And also I think women in their health care and we've been told for so long, I mean, I had a friend of my mom's tell me, Oh, you should use a washcloth to roughen your nipples up before you have your baby because breast pain is nipple pain.

It's not normal. Yeah. So all the damage is not normal. Yeah. All these things we were told were normal and we know that they might be common, but they're not normal. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank goodness. Things are changing now. Like, I think that's one of the, I remind myself a lot, like people are wanting more care that is centered around them.

That is preventative. That is not just a bandaid fix and you know, not having to do tips like that. Um, yeah. So going back to the beginning, um, Brittany, Susanna and I all had [00:56:00] difficulties with breastfeeding. We all struggled and. That's what led us to where we are now. Yeah. It's like your passion lies within like your, your struggles.

I wish to God I had this for me when I was having my children. Yeah. Just even like the information just to, you know, you don't have to stop breastfeeding at one year old, just because you're a baby's a year old doesn't mean that your breast milk is any less nutritious. So, I mean, it's, it's not even just problematic thing.

That's, you know, just, Giving that, empowering women and empowering families to continue doing what makes them happy. What's fueling their babies and their children and making them healthy. Well, and we're the only country that ever put a limit on when you should stop breastfeeding. Yeah. Yeah, my daughter's pediatrician told me I should stop breastfeeding her when she was a year old because my breast milk was no longer beneficial for her.

It was better to switch her to cow's milk. But I mean, that stigma still exists even within, I mean, I think hospitals and, and other providers that, you [00:57:00] know, formula has this status above breast milk still. And we know that nutritional value wise, breast milk does have more calories and nutritional value to it.

It's a formula. Right. Well, yeah, you also can't get a formula without unhealthy things in it. Yeah. There's no healthy formula. You look at those ingredients and that was scary. It blows my mind. European formulas have such better standards. Yeah. They do. More people are ordering them now. They're like, Oh, get them overseas.

Yeah. And the FDA tries to keep them out though. The what? The FDA tries to keep them out. And I think it was during the formula ban, during the formula, um, shortage, they were allowing certain brands to come in for that purpose. But I, I've heard that they've started trying to keep them out again. How? Well, there's goat's milk formula too.

Yeah. I just always find it like when you look at like the business behind it and how much that controls the experience. Yeah. Oh, they just came out with um, Bobby is basically equivalent to Gerber. They're all made in the same processing. Factory. So Bobby has like all these celebrities, they [00:58:00] endorse it.

They have all these great, you know, things in front of it, marketing it, but it literally is the same. Well, it's like just rebranded a lot of like, um, you know, people will come out with brands that are like, Oh, these are all natural, really good and healthy. And you can look at like more ones that have been around like Burt's Bees.

Right. Everyone knows that one. It was great because it was all natural, you know, a small company with a small family. They got bought out. So they're bought out by the same people who are doing the giant horrible stuff. So and then it changes, you know, even Bragg's apple cider vinegar got bought out and changed the formula.

Quality. You can't get it anymore. I don't buy that anymore. I know. I've had to protest. I make my own. Oh, do you? I have to, you have to tell me how to make my own because I tried it once, but I don't think I measured. Right. Um, it did not go well. Um, but yeah, no, it's things like this. I find that, you know, when you look at it with a lot of these products, just looking behind the scenes and you're like, oh, okay.

So the follow the money, both the all [00:59:00] natural stuff and the other one, and it's fascinating to look at. They don't care if you go somewhere else. Cause it's the same people. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Get that. And you'll find that, um, a lot of, you know, these things that come out are, are marketed and they're, they're bought and paid for by formula companies.

Um, what is it? The AAP actually is, uh, one of their sponsors is, is one of the formula companies. It's like, okay, so yeah, you can't tell me that your research is not the best. It's not, you know, biased at all. There's no bias here. I know. We talk about it all the time. Look at the fact checkers. Who are the fact checkers?

Well, actually, if you look at any, anything, the food, cause the, actually when you get into like, uh, let's talk about gut health, nutrition, anything of the nutrition research, you have to just read who produced it. There's almost none that's not funded by a giant corporation. And so automatically if it's funded by a giant corporation.

Let's remove that. And you talk about like, Oh, limited [01:00:00] research, which just a little star note on that. Limited research doesn't mean that it's proven not working. It just means that we just don't have enough research yet. So I think people need to remember that because there's not research and you're like, that's because no one's done it.

It's not because they're finding a negative finding with something. So, um, but if you look at that research and let's remove all the ones that are backed by giant corporations and that are actually done, um, you know, Wow. You almost won't find one. Even the weight charts in pediatrician offices, some of them are so outdated that, you know, they're actually based and made from formula companies too.

When a lot of these corporations that have products to sell are doing their own research. That's not real research. No. They do their own research. Very biased research. Yeah. There's, we listened to a great book recently that came out and it, um, what's it called? It's like processed. Oh, I don't remember.

Remember? I don't know book title names. I just listen. I know. I just get to listen. Um, we'll listen to him on our car rides. I'll be like, this is our book of the week, but this one I'll send it to you guys. It's so good. Uh, [01:01:00] because he goes through it, all of that, um, we're looking at who did the research and if, and baked into it.

Breaking it all down and how to like find good research. And he's like, it's so backed. And like, they also talk about the different, um, in our health world, how there's like, uh, you know, this panels that are like, we're promoting this, like we're health, you know, healthy, even breastfeeding or healthy does.

But if you look at who's on it, most of them, if you follow, like, who's backing them or sponsoring them, they're backed by, you know, they, they've actually talked about formula in this. Um, and so it's not that, you know, it's that you should be able to have the real information on the health of that formula and what it's really helping consent on everything.

I feel like I have to name the title of this. Yeah. Yeah. Informed consent. It's so true. It is true. But we just, there's a lot of information hidden. And so people, people want to make good decisions and they like, you know, they want to make Yeah. Like, I'm sure you see that so many times, like trying to make the right choices and then you're just like, Oh my gosh, there's so much hidden stuff out [01:02:00] there.

Well, and I mean, brand, the branding formula comparably to its store brand are pretty much identical. I mean, and what's interesting enough is WIC and other, um, like low income assistants will only pay for infomail and similac. Right. And they have to fight to get it changed, you know, it doesn't pay for goat's milk and more of what would be more equivalent on a molecular level, um, to breast milk and would be better.

I mean, like sensitive, they have to actually ask for request changes and that type of formula to get it paid for. I did use WIC when my children were young and I wanted, Um, more, uh, allowance for fresh produce because I made my, my own baby food and stuff and, and they said, no, um, but you can get the jarred baby food.

I'm like, I don't want that. Yeah. You look at the ingredients of baby food and why are they putting cornstarch in this? You know? Right. Um, yeah. [01:03:00] So I, I stopped using WIC. Because I, I didn't want to use what I was allowed to use. That is so wild. And look at that on a higher level, like what, you know, lower income families have access to.

Really? It's terrifying. Like we right now we're trying to fight to get in network with Medicaid. Yeah, we, you know, they started covering chiropractors recently and doulas. Yeah. We chose not to get a network with them though, because, um, they're just so difficult to work with and they can just stop coverage or just decide not to pay sometimes.

So those are like, nope, I'm not going to pay. And so it's just like a wild situation. We found we just do affordable care plans. Yeah. It's easier for them. For the client. And also anyone on those programs, it's, they control them so much. So like they do, I feel like they make it so they're not healthy with things.

You know, if someone goes, I need more whole vegetables, why would we ever be like, no, right? Like, why would we ever say that to someone? Like we know that we [01:04:00] need to eat whole foods. So why would that ever be even a question? Shouldn't it be unlimited of these kinds of things? Yeah, you would think. I know.

Tell me why the insurance companies are stopping covering vitamin D screenings. Are they? I didn't realize that. Wow. Really? We're not up on insurance companies enough. Yeah. But don't do too many screenings. I actually was just reading through the other day what my, um, we have TRICARE and the list of things TRICARE does not cover.

Oh my God. And on that list was vitamin D screening. It is chiropractic care. And it is chiropractic care too. Yeah. We have military prices strictly because it's like, because of that, yeah, it's insane. You know, I, uh, you know, there's. Military families need chiropractic care. Oh, what the military does to those, oh, the poor bodies, the poor bodies.

Yeah. If you're listening in the military, you should definitely go to a chiropractor. Yes. Absolutely. We're military. We're all military related too. So I was, I was active duty Air Force. Susanna was [01:05:00] active duty Marine Corps and Brittany grew up in a military family and her husband was military. Yeah. Man.

Yeah. We love our military. Yeah. All of them. I always love that. Susanna and Kelly were, used to wear a uniform themselves. I love it. You're badass. It is amazing. Cause you, well, you also know exactly what they went through, you know, or what families are going through in the military. Cause it's a very different experience.

The stress levels that they have are very, very different than somebody, you know, like everyone doesn't have stress, but you know, it's just a different experience. Well, I'm also sure like healthcare. Practices in the military really hasn't changed. Oh, it's yeah. It's like the same thing the last couple of decades.

Yeah. Yeah. My husband was in the Marines and he tells me, he was like, yeah, we went like once a year to get our dental cleaning. And he's like, you better not ask to go see the doctor. He said, it's impossible to get a visit. Like you're, if we send them, if they need extra reason, we, they, Don't go to the independent one.

We send them to, and they need to x rays through the base or [01:06:00] they get it through the, they choose to get through the base. It will take weeks, sometimes months. You're like, Oh, you might as well not get them by the time we get them back. It's a whole, it's a whole wild thing, but we are way over time. Is there anything you guys want to leave the listeners with?

Um, thank you. Yeah, thank you. I mean, really, if it wasn't for not just like our amazing patients and families, but also the collaboration that we have. Like, I think the birth world, the holistic world, all of like our Kairos, PTs, OTs, everyone has been really welcoming to us coming in, which is kind of a really good feeling.

It's not just a, Hey, we're here. We've actually not only been able to reach out, but everyone's reached out to us to collaborate because we see the gap. So yeah, it's amazing. Just getting together with, um, you know, pediatricians and different therapies so that we can do better. Yeah. Then reach out and schedule your prenatal.

Yeah. [01:07:00] Love it. so much for coming on. And then, um, all of your stuff will be linked in the description below. So when they're listening, if you want to work with them, just click the link and you can find them. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the 302 podcast. I am your host, Dr. Frank Chi, with my lovely wife and co host, Dr.

Jennifer. We are your local nervous system based chiropractors who have a passion for contributing to our community and giving back as we have been so lucky to be blessed living here in Delaware. We've created this as a way to support our community through showcasing local small businesses and people who are making a difference in Delaware.

The best way for you to support those who have been featured and our local Delaware podcast is to follow, share, and like us over at Instagram. Our handle is at the 302 podcast. If you would like to be a guest or sponsor, please visit our website at the 302 podcast. com. If you are [01:08:00] interested in chiropractic care or reaching out to myself or Dr.

Epps, visit our website at DoverHealthCareCenter. com. And send us a message. We look forward to sharing more with you through this year and beyond.