S2Ep22: Theoni with Not Ur Daddy's Lender

Say hello to Theoni, the powerhouse behind “NOT UR DADDYS LENDER” - your not-so-typical mortgage expert with a flair for making home buying cool, comprehensible, and completely relatable for the younger generation. Diving into the mortgage banking world at 18 and now thriving with Annie Mac Home Mortgage as a correspondent lender, Theoni's approach is anything but traditional. Her journey took a vibrant turn in 2019, propelling her into social media fame with a whopping 175,000 followers on TikTok and over 25,000 on Instagram, where she demystifies the home buying process with a blend of expertise, humor, and real talk.

Born in Albania and embarking on her American dream at just four years old, Theoni embodies the epitome of a strong work ethic, driven by her immigrant roots. Now 27, living the beach life in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, with her husband, toddler, and another baby on the way, she's a testament to balancing professional success with a bustling family life.

Together with her husband, Theoni extends her passion for making things relatable to helping small businesses, real estate agents, and lenders nationwide sharpen their marketing game.

Transcript

Theoni: Um, so I am Thione. I'm also known as the only the lender. I've been a lender for about eight years, nine years now. I got into the industry when I was 18 in the mortgage industry, which is crazy. Um, I went to college in Washington college and I did this job at the same time I was like an assistant for a loan officer, so it was really cool to be able to go to school and do this job.

Um, so it taught me a lot and it also taught me a lot about how. Misinformed and just no information there is for the younger generations on figuring out how to buy the most expensive thing you're ever going to buy in your life is a house. Um, so that kind of jumpstarted my, uh, presence that I have on social media.

So it sounds silly, but like Tik TOK has been my biggest source of business for the past, I want to say four or five years now. Um, so I have just over 170, 000 followers on there and then Instagram just over 25, 000. So social media for me is huge and personal branding and marketing. And I just love talking about that stuff too.

So mixing the most boring [00:01:00] thing on earth, mortgages with like a creative outlet with marketing for me is just beautiful. been like super cool. It's 

Megan: been amazing how many people have come on and said that tick tocks been such a game changer for their industry and for their own personal brand and everything.

Yeah. So 

Theoni: were you on pretty early on? Tick tock. Yeah, I have two younger sisters and at the time one of them was like in fifth grade and so she was one of the ones that was like dancing on there with all the trends. So when I was on there for mortgages, she was like the only stop and I was like. Somebody will find this informational one day.

Are you the oldest? Yes. Oh, do you think that shapes, 

Megan: you know, how you like operate in the world? Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause he's the oldest. Yes. And he operates different. 

Frank: Yeah. And you're the oldest. Technically 

Megan: it's complicated. Technically not . I have an older sister, but I'm the first born. Oh, okay. So, uh, it's just, I feel like I have the oldest personality, but she was born, she's adopted, but she was born in the middle of her, like birth order.

Birth order. And she has a middle child, even though we were not raised in that order. So it's like, [00:02:00] oh, is it genetic or is it, oh my gosh. That order. Yeah. That is confusing. 

Theoni: Yeah. I was 

Megan: like, how could it be confusing? But yeah, how do you explain that? Um, so are you from 

Theoni: Delaware, like born and raised? So I'm actually from the Baltimore area primarily.

I was actually born in Albania though. So I am first generation American, first generation college student, all that. So I'm like, I was raised in a very Albanian household. Did you ever go back to Albania? Oh yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. I've heard it's 

Megan: just like really wonderful. Oh my gosh. It's so beautiful.

Right in the Mediterranean, right? Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. 

Frank: What language do they speak? 

Megan: Albanian. 

Frank: Okay. Is it called just Albanian? 

Theoni: Yep. And everybody's

everyone's always like, what does it sound like? And then they'll go to Google and it literally says like, it is its own language. Like you can't, I can't be like, it's Italian or German. It's a language. It's its own thing. Yeah. Can you speak it? Oh yeah. My grandma would kick my butt if I forgot. 

Megan: Yeah. Well, we always talk about it cause he's [00:03:00] first generation as well.

Cool. For Chinese. And. You know, what we see with people who are, it's either the parents were like, you are going to like basically assimilate into America. So we're not going to speak the language to you too much, or you're going to learn. Yeah, everything. Which one were you? 

Frank: I was definitely the first part.

So my parents didn't force us to learn Mandarin. So we know very little. It's almost like, I like to explain it like maybe like elementary school level because my grandparents can't speak English. So it was very much like baby talk. Very little vocabulary. Very like. Yeah. You know, simple words and sense structure and stuff like that.

So I can understand much more than I can speak it. 

Theoni: That's usually the gig with. So I knew Greek too when I was, um, when I lived in Albania and then when I moved here, I was just with my regular Albanian grandma that doesn't know how to speak Greek too. So I kind of like lost Greek and I understand it more, but picked up Albanian and can speak.

Frank: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Theoni: And we're a big family. [00:04:00] So like my, my parents are very involved in my whole family is very involved. So when they're around us, they primarily will speak to, to the kids. So your kids are bilingual too? Yeah. That's so cool. Hopefully the one is too. And then this one's due in July. That's 

Megan: exciting.

I feel like that's something as like growing up here, like not getting exposed to languages until you're in high school. It's just like. Feel like it's too late. Yeah. I was trying to learn languages, whatever country we're going to. I'll be like, I'll try and learn it. But the brain's just not his brain. So much wire, just why you're differently for learning that language versus like mine's like, I don't know.

Frank: Yeah. I'll pick it up quicker. Like we just, our last country we went to was Mexico. So picking up Spanish was pretty. 

Megan: You were just speaking Spanish to people. I was like, how are you doing this? We're in Portugal. He was just speaking Portuguese. And I was like, why does your brain, like, does your brain do that too?

And you're traveling, you can like pick up languages really fast. I would say 

Theoni: I get confused a little bit because like, I think in Albanian still, so like I'll count in Albanian. Um, so like when I did Spanish in high school, I would [00:05:00] like write where there's like ease and there shouldn't be ease in Spanish, but there should be in like the Albanian language.

And so I do get a little confused. I don't pick them up as, as much. As you know, easily, but, um, but that's a pretty cool skill to have. Yeah. Our 

Frank: next trip is Italy. And so she's starting right now. I just 

Megan: started. It's in like four months. Yeah. So I like listen to it in the car now so I can pick up enough.

Well, Albania is only a boat ride away from Italy. Yeah. Albania is on our short list because that whole area is just. So gorgeous. Yeah. And there's just so much culture to see, so, but we got a good flight to Elise that's over there, . Oh, absolutely. I usually pick places because I wanna go everywhere based on flights.

Theoni: Oh, and once you're in Europe too, it is so much easier and cheaper to travel within Europe. Yeah. It's like the biggest hack ever. I always make little trips out of when we do go back to Albania. Mm-Hmm. . Um, I don't travel with my family anymore because we're a hot mess and they're always late and I have too much anxiety for that.

Oh. But 

Megan: we have that problem 

Theoni: too. Okay. Yeah. Mm-Hmm? . I mean, it's just probably, honestly. Born when I [00:06:00] was 18, I was like, I'm traveling by myself forever. And so I always make like a little trip out of the layover that I would have. And instead of just staying for a couple hours, I'll just stay a couple of days.

And then flying within Europe is so cheap. Like. It'll lead all being it last time I did it was like 120 bucks and I was like, this is crazy. Yeah. That's amazing. 

Megan: Yeah. Maybe we should do it. Day trip with flight. Yeah. You should. I'll let you know all the spots. You know what? When we go there, we'll be like, yeah, tell us everything.

Cause it is on our list. Yeah. Sure. Um, but let's get back into the mortgage. You got into it really young. What was it just like a job and then you fell in love with it or how did you get drawn into that? 

Theoni: So, uh, my parents own an Italian restaurant, just like every, like Greek and Albanian person And the United States, um, but they own that.

And so freshman year after freshman year was over and college, I worked as a bartender at their place and it's a smaller locally place. So when there's new people that come in, I'm all, I was like, who's this? Like it was some random guy that I'd never [00:07:00] seen before. So I was talking to him and he was telling me that he works with a group of mortgage bankers at the time and it was a bank.

And, um. how they needed help with social media and marketing. And if I knew anybody, since I, he knew I was in college and I was like, well, I'm going to college for business. So I would love to like, take a look at, you know, what you guys need. And so the next day I went into the office and the manager for that office had actually gone to the same college I went to.

So he noticed it. Cause he came in after me and saw my sticker on my car. And he was like, who's out there with a Washington college sticker. And so we immediately like clicked that and he was like, what are you here for? So I was like, I don't know, maybe like marketing and turning for, for the summer. Um, and so then I realized I actually don't know anything about what you people do to like be able to market it accordingly.

And I didn't want to just do like boring Canva posts. That was like. Buy a house with us. So I started learning like what they did and I was like, this is really interesting. And then I also got really annoyed thinking how much I was spending on college and [00:08:00] not knowing about any of this stuff. And I was going to school like for business and econ.

So I was like, why are, why am I not being taught about any of this stuff? Um, so I asked if they were hiring with loan officers. I had no idea how it worked at the time. And they probably didn't. gave me a company laptop and I was a assistant since then. So I was able to like go to school, like I said, and work, which was like a really interesting and cool experience to talk to real life clients as well while I was like 19 years old.

Um, but that's really kind of how I got into it. I feel like nobody ever. I'm going to be a mortgage banker. It's like, 

Megan: you're not in kindergarten. Be like today. I'd like you to feature. I'm going to be this. Yeah. 

Theoni: Or it's the same with real estate. Like nobody's like, I'm going to be a realtor. Like no one, no one thinks that you just kind of like dive into it, but I'm so happy I did.

Yeah. 

Megan: So everybody who gets into either mortgage or real estate seems to be very passionate and like obsessed with it. You have to be a little crazy to do this. Yeah. What are the like personality 

Theoni: traits that you find like you guys have to have? Um. [00:09:00] You can't be somebody who like complains. And I think that that was, that was something that I even had to learn.

Um, because I, I think like this job requires a type of, I don't know, like toughness almost that you just have to like, believe that you're strong enough to get through the different seasons and there's just no guarantee. So you're just like constantly thrown into like, you can have your record breaking month and like make a ton of money and then the next month make nothing and it's like very humbling.

And so I think that. That would be the number one thing is just like mental toughness almost. Um, and so the people that like don't have that I've seen try to get in when like in 2020 and 21 when the market was crazy and then they're not here anymore cause it's not easy right now. It's hard. 

Megan: Did you find when you were in school?

learning all of this, because I'm sure you started developing these skills and being like, Oh, I can't complain. Like at like 1920 and then you're learning the business in college where you like seeing a disconnect between the education and the real [00:10:00] world. 

Theoni: Uh, yes. So the education was very like textbook key.

Like it didn't make sense with the real world. And I kind of feel bad because at the time, like I almost had the upper hand I feel like because I would. Go into these econ classes and learn about the stock market and mortgage bonds and things like that. But then I would go to a sales meeting and we would talk about like what they're doing this week or like what people's interest rates are right now.

And so I, it was really cool to be able to connect the two, but I wouldn't have been able to do that if it wasn't for the fact that I had that real life job. So it does make me sad that like people are just going through school, just learning the textbook version of things, but never connecting them to real life because they, they don't 

Megan: I feel like it's such a big issue in every industry though.

Like how do we get education that we're paying so much for to like match the real world? Yeah. 

Frank: Yeah. We kind of talked about that the other day too of, I feel like. Business professors never owned a business either, so, but they're teaching business and same thing. We were just, we were on like a, [00:11:00] like a 

Megan: zoom meeting, 

Frank: like a 

Megan: mastermind for this, like future thing for like health and kids and stuff.

And it was like, 

Frank: and a lot of them were like professors, which is great. They knew a lot of stuff, but none of them had, not a lot of them. Like actually worked with patients. I think we're the only 

Megan: ones that were, there was only two other people out of like 20 or no, maybe like 15 that like actually were hands on with the public.

And so it's like the views of listening to them talk. It's not like, like what they said in theory, it's good. It's right. But like when you put that into action, it's like, it does not match. And it's just not the reality of it. Like we can say these things like help people, but like, you know, Taking a kid to see a hospital does not make them healthier, you know, like that's literally not going to help them achieve health is not meeting a doctor like, you know, it's going to be like teaching them about food and you know, your body and how to, you know, do different things and buy things and grocery shop and where did your food come from and, and how to move your body.

And it's like that there's just such a disconnect from the school and what families actually need. 

Theoni: Yeah. I'm sure it's like the same thing with, it's exactly the same. I always [00:12:00] tell people, so my sister, I have two younger ones and one of them was in college during 2020 and so she was deciding like, do I even drop out or do I stay?

And then I was thinking about myself and honestly I tell people like if you're going to for business and you're hoping to like be either a commission or sales role or just own your own business, like I wouldn't go to college cause I think that there's enough resources out there now that are so accessible to us that probably weren't 20 years ago and they needed those professors that never had a business.

This to teach the concepts that now you can YouTube. 

Mm-Hmm. Or like, 

Theoni: oh yeah. Learn online Education's 

Megan: out there and there's so many books too. Like you can, everybody's written a book so you can like, you can educate yourself on anything in business at this point. Yeah. So whenever, like there's people who are like.

Not educated on it, but running a business where it's struggling. It's like you have resources. Yeah. I just 

Theoni: have never heard of anybody be like, I'm so happy I went to college for business. Cause it's helped my business do this. And I'm like, I've just never heard that. It's usually just like trial and error.

You're on your own. Yeah. Well, most people who are good at 

Megan: business, like the [00:13:00] skill sets, cause we've been talking about like the provider, like in our field, like to be a great provider, um, the education, like, Great student does not equal great provider, right? Like at all. Usually there's a big disconnect between you have to be a good in business.

Yeah. And you have to be good at connecting with people because business and connecting with patients, it's all the same, right? How do you talk to a person? And then if you're really good at books, you might just be really good at books. Yeah. I don't know how to talk to people, but usually 

Frank: at our school or maybe not our school, but.

It's the best provider. They're just the best student. Yeah. The best studier. They knew how to study or pass classes, but they weren't the best at speaking to a patient or you know, that's like manners, all of that stuff. So it's really interesting. 

Theoni: That is, I mean, it's, it's kind of the same. My husband went to university of Delaware and studied chemistry.

He thought he was going to be a dentist, um, for a really long time, but he fell in love with the business side of it. Now he's like a serial entrepreneur and is crazy like what's he, what's he own? He has a marketing company, um, him and his mom own Red Bull. Square Caviar Bar, which is right in Rehoboth. 

Megan: We always pass by [00:14:00] and talk about eating there.

We've not, it's not our restaurant, we haven't eaten there. 

Theoni: Yeah. It's been there for like 23 years. Uh, they're Russian. 

Frank: They're Russian. 

Theoni: Hence the caviar. Yeah. We're going to have to go there now. You have to go. It is, it is really cool. Are they closed Sundays? Yeah. They're closed. Uh, yeah. They're only open Thursday through Saturday, six to they open at six five.

We walked by this past Sunday and we were like, we should go 

Frank: here and it was packed. I was like, why isn't the place open? Yeah. 

Theoni: It's just them too. So like you'll see him, he's at the bar and Victoria is his mom and she serves and makes all the food. It's just them too. That's amazing. So with everything else that like they do, they can't.

That's not like the only thing they do. They always call it like their house. And so when you go there, it's, it's truly an experience. Like people spend a couple hours because she teaches you and so does he like about the caviar and about the vodka and about like the food you're eating and how to eat it and things like that.

And so it's not like, so it's like a real experience. It is like a true experience. Oh my gosh. Yes. 

Megan: I like that. Okay. That's moved up really [00:15:00] high on the list. We're definitely going to go. Yeah. 

Theoni: And I think they're on open table. So like making reservations is probably the way to go. Yeah. And so what else? So they have the marketing, the restaurant.

Yeah. So he has the marketing. Um, they only have the restaurant together. And then he has a mobile detailing business, um, and then a supplying business too. So detailing supplier stuff. 

Megan: And then are you, is this your own business too? So what you're doing is a hundred percent you. So you guys are just a family of entrepreneurs.

Yeah. It's crazy. It's a whole different life, isn't it? It is like, it really is. It's crazy. Do you ever like when you're talking with your friends that have like nine jobs, are you just. It's like, I cannot relate to you. I 

Theoni: mean, they like go to the gym at five 30 and I'm like, five 30 does not look the same in this household as it does like, you know, or like 9 PM they're like all watching shows, texting me and we're like back on our laptops after bedtime and bath time is over and stuff and like working on that stuff.

But it's just, it is different. Like I feel like there's no off switch ever. Um, but that's what we chose to do and there will be one day there'll be an off switch and we'll look back and be like, great. We needed to do these [00:16:00] crazy times and these crazy hours. To be able to get to relax. 

Frank: Do you feel like your, your upbringing with, cause your parents owned a restaurant too.

So there are entrepreneurs as well. Did you feel like that influenced you unconsciously kind of? Oh yeah. 

Theoni: Um, so when my parents actually came here, we, this is like a crazy story in of itself. But now that I'm legal here, I can say this, but we snuck in actually like through Canada and my mom was like nine months pregnant with me being four at the time.

So she had like. A toddler and it was crazy. Um, but they fled for, um, I forgot the name, but like it wasn't, it wasn't a safe time in Albania. It was like a S there was a civil war going on. And so when they came, they found that the only jobs they could do were like the. food truck jobs or like the late night shifts somewhere, you know, cause they didn't have paperwork and it took about 13 or 14 years to really like start the process of it.

Um, and so seeing that they were like, well, for us, we don't have an education and we don't have paperwork. So the only thing we can do is work for ourselves. And so I think I like that. Did [00:17:00] see that and I, I saw the potential in it as well, because even though my parents weren't around much, our grandparents raised us really, um, that was their sacrifice.

But it also taught me like, that's the entrepreneur life, you know, it's like no better way to live than. You know, just working for yourself, especially when you just don't really have a choice. So like all chips are in at that point. And so they kind of just made the best of the best of it. They worked for, um, a branch of dish network for a while and were really successful until I was in high school.

And then they got out of that and then got into the restaurant industry. So they've kind of dipped their feet in a couple of different things. That's really awesome. 

Megan: It's, I grew up in a very entrepreneur family. Everybody has a business and I do think it's very different like mindset even as a kid on this is just what we do or we're like late nights listening to seminars or you just go wherever your parents go doing all these things and it's, it teaches you like a different outlook on life.

Yes. Then if you. like we do these vacations at this time and we do this and yeah, it's just not something, you know, we were exposed [00:18:00] to a lot. It was just work. Yeah. It was just, you just work. Yeah. As soon as you can start, do what you do. Even now it's very much ingrained. Even like my mom doesn't have to work and she still works.

Theoni: I'm trying to retire my mom, but even though like I say that I'm going to get to a point where I can, and she's going to be like, I don't know. I'm still going to 

Megan: work. No, she will. They've especially like when they, um, my mom's at a point where she doesn't have to. And then they just started this whole, like redid the farm again to, um, to like completely reinvented it.

And you're just like, I think it's like, what's your mind? I'm sure like when I'm that age, I'll be just, I'll be like, there's 

Theoni: more to do. Yeah. I mean, my grandpa works at the restaurant, so my whole family works at the restaurant still and he's like 81 I think. He makes pizza. He makes the pizza dough there.

He like shows up. He's the first one there. Last one out every day. And I think that that is what keeps him going forever. Yeah. He's just gonna like, if he stopped ever when he gets injured, he gives himself like a couple of days, um, or if he gets like badly cut or something like that and he'll be like, all right, I'm back in.

And like, he does not, even when he's home, he'll [00:19:00] like mow the grass and like during recovery does not stop. Oh my gosh. 

Frank: That's crazy. 

Megan: Oh man. So, okay. So let's get on to, um, your mortgage. So you are really working with younger people and this is unprecedented times. Um, the crazy time is I never seen anything like this in history apparently.

And so what is it that you're helping, you know, what are some tips and then how, what are the younger people seeing so we can set up the, basically the stage for where they're at and then what are the best recommendations you have? 

Theoni: Yeah. So, so I think the, the biggest thing that I tell people is, um, I call myself not your daddy's lender for a reason because I think so many people, it was so much easier to buy a house.

And so many people thought it was just like part of their right as an American to own. And unfortunately I think that that's kind of slowly dying away. And I think buying real estate is getting really tough. Um, but the other part of it is that people have this expectation that they should be in the same place that their parents were at that age.

And when you're 30 years old and you can't afford the same house as your parents, [00:20:00] because now that house is a million dollars, not 400, 000. I think it Develops this type of like fear to even get started into real estate. So I always tell people really lower your expectations when you buy your first property, because that first property will eventually get you to where your parents were at 30 because it was a very different, you know, different times, different market, different inflation rate, which like, you know, as a whole other thing.

Um, but I think that the biggest thing is just getting educated early on with. How it all works, like how to like take out a credit card and just start putting gas on it every month and paying it off, like building a financial footprint. Um, and I think just saving, like, I think that's the toughest part about all of this with the economy is like, where do you find the money to save?

But if you plan early enough, I think that there's always like a way to save. To buy and buying houses, not cheap, there's a down payment. And there's also the closing costs and people don't know that there's two different 

Frank: prices. The price. [00:21:00] Yeah. 

Theoni: Yeah. There's so much added fees that people don't realize there's a lot.

Yeah. And I mean, the government takes their portion of course. And then people who help you get to. Buying it have to get paid people like me and the real estate agent and the title companies and things like that. But I think that that's the difference between someone getting taken advantage of and then looking back and being like, Oh, you know, that was a terrible experience.

The first time I bought my house and there's a lot of those people and now they will never buy another house. And so that house that could have been on the market for the next person to buy. That person had such a bad experience the first time they bought a house because they were manipulated into it or felt pushed into it because they didn't choose the right people.

Um, and a lot of that is just like you, you kind of afford what you can, right? So there's lenders out there. I tell people all the time that are cheaper than me, quick and loans and rocket mortgage and all those like online companies are a hundred percent cheaper, but I don't get paid until I take you to closing and you're happy.

Um, they get paid as soon as you fill [00:22:00] out an online application with them. Oh, so even if you end up not using them, they're still already paying you? Oh yeah. 

Megan: Yeah. Those are 

Theoni: like, they're like a nine to five call center. So like those people have to get paid somehow. Right. So, and when they're doing that much volume, they're just on a retainer and it's the people above them that really get paid when something gets closed.

So you're not talking to the people that actually do it. 

Megan: Yeah. So this way they actually know when they work with you, they know exactly who they're working with. Exactly. Yeah. 

Theoni: No, I really wouldn't say. There's not really a ticket price just because it depends on the market as well and the interest rate and how much things cost.

Did you take like a percentage? Yes. Okay. So it's a percentage. Um, it's far less than what a real estate agent makes. So our game is more like volume. Um, so we have to get really good at the balancing act of, you know, everything. Whereas real estate agents can make what I make in like six months in one deal.

So, um, um, yeah. So it's just what's your 

Megan: age range that you tend to work with? Like, obviously you'd work with everybody, [00:23:00] but what's like your ideal person you love working with? 

Theoni: Um, so it's like about 25 to like 32, I would say is like the age range, but yeah, I work with, you'll be surprised, like tick tock their demographic switch so much in the last couple of years.

Couple of months older thirties. Right? Yeah. And even like people in their fifties, like I talked to a lot of, a lot of folks who like re are refinancing right now, which sounds crazy, but they just have so much equity built up that they're like, whatever, I'll just get out of credit card debt or I'll pay off my student loans.

I've been here for, you know, Seven, eight years as we'll take out all this equity. So those are the people who are reaching out and I'm like, you guys are on here. Like you're on Tik TOK. It's really crazy. 

Megan: That's really, what's driven 

Theoni: your business. Yeah. 

Frank: Yeah. And are you just in Delaware or do you work 

Theoni: everywhere?

Frank: The whole country? Yeah. The whole country. Yeah. That's really 

Theoni: nice. So when I started, I was with a bank. Um, so all the content I would put on there. Like I said, some of the other things I wanted to put out was about how I could help from, you know, in all 50 states. And now I'm not with a bank for a lot of reasons, but [00:24:00] um, one of them, when you're not with a bank, it's not federally chartered, so then you have to get individually licensed.

And so I kind of just pulled up the roster of, like, who I help to get personally licensed, but then in those states that I'm not personally licensed, my team saves More than my company is. So I can still, I'm still the point of contact throughout all of it. And nobody knows the difference because 

Megan: I'm still there.

What are the big things that you're seeing that people need to do? Like, what are the tips? So let's say somebody is, you know, 25 and they're like, I really want to buy a house the next five years. What do they need to do to prepare? Um, so I think the, 

Theoni: the biggest thing is figuring out how income works. Um, cause I think when you're self employed, it's a little bit different than if you're regular W2, Um, salary job.

And so people always think that with the up and coming, like influencer creators, like all that, when you have a lot of cash, cash is an equal income and income is what you can qualify for. And cash is just really for the down payment, the closings, everything else. Um, so I talked to a lot of people that are confused about that cause they're like, well, I'm [00:25:00] doing really well in business and I'm like, great, how old is your business?

And they're like, well, six months. And I'm like, well, you need two years. Um, and then the other thing is I'm all for the entrepreneur lifestyle, but, um, I'm You know, Uncle Sam needs to take a share during tax season. And if he doesn't, and you write everything off, we can't use that number after all the, or we can't use the number before all the write offs.

So there are some people who I look at their tax returns and they're younger entrepreneurs and they make like 200, 000 a year, but are writing off like 150, 000 of it. And I'm like, okay, well then we can only use 50 grand to qualify you. And that, isn't going to get you much, um, you know, in most areas. So I think like figuring out what your income is and if you're w two, we count it before they take all your taxes.

So we count the gross, which is kind of nice, but at the same time you have to make sure that you can afford it at the end of the day, you know, cause you're not really taking home that pay. Um, so I think that would be the first thing. And then the second is credit. There's going to be so many programs out there that say 580 is [00:26:00] the lowest you can go, but your credit scores are your interest rates going to suck.

And I tell people that all the time, like I'm not about misleading people. You can do it. You need 10 percent down, but you're going to have like an 8 percent credit or interest rate. I keep saying credit. Um, so six 40 and above is what I tell people to shoot for. And I know with like times right now, it's tough.

Everybody's putting everything on credit. Like we're just, we've never seen this type of level of debt in consumer debt before. But, um, I think again, if you have a plan, then it's so much easier to like roll with that. 

Megan: But you can change your credit score pretty quickly, which I think a lot of people don't realize.

Yes. It can shift. 

Frank: I also didn't realize credit score. Or the rate is not the rate, right? That doesn't mean everyone's getting seven percent. Interesting. So 

Theoni: yeah, your credit score is, um, directly correlated to the interest rate that you get. So anything above a seven 60, you're always going to get the best interest rate in the market, whatever that is.

I mean, [00:27:00] sometimes these days, sometimes it changes like three or four times a day. Um, so if like I wake up this morning and somebody went under contract and this is the other thing, we can't lock you in until you are under contract. So a lot of times people think when they get pre approved, they're locked into the rate that they're quoted for the day.

And I tell people like, it really doesn't matter, you know, what interest rate or this is the best. When people are like, Oh, well, Frank down the street told me I could do like six and a half. And I'm like, are you under contract? And they're like, no. And I'm like, well, it doesn't matter. When people apply with me, I always do worst case scenario.

So right now I'm in that. process of just like putting everyone in at seven and a half percent for the rate. And then if it gets better, which like is my goal, obviously, then they're just happily surprised rather than starting them at like a six and a half and being like, hopefully by the time you go under contract, this is where rates are.

So yeah, it's much better to, um, 

Megan: You know, deliver something better than what you're promising. So that's, what are some other [00:28:00] misconceptions that you're seeing? It seems like, I think there's a lot when it comes to mortgage and like people have, you have no idea till you're in the middle 

Theoni: of it and you're like all these things.

I think one of the big one that you guys probably have heard of too, is that you need 20 percent down to buy a house, um, which is totally not true. Even if you're not a first time home buyer, it's minimum 5 percent down, which most people don't Um, and then if you're not a first time home buyer, you sell, um, but it's as little as three and a half or 3 percent down for first time homebuyers.

So I think that like that in itself relieves so many people because they're like, oh, great. I don't have 20 percent and that's a misconception because if you, with a conventional loan, if you, um, the biggest ones are conventional on FHA. If you do put 20 percent down, you don't pay something called. PMI or mortgage insurance.

And sometimes it's so silly because it's like 70 bucks a month and I'm like, so you're, you're going to put 20 percent down to save 70 a month instead [00:29:00] of just, especially in a climate like this where most people who have bought are going to refinance. So it'd be silly to like front all that money now just for you to change the terms of your loan in a year when rates drop.

Right. So it's like, how about we figure that out later and you pay that 70 a month and not have to take off like all of this cash out of your savings. Um, so I think that that's a big misconception and with an FHA loan, you're always paying mortgage insurance. Like you could put 50 percent down FHA always, always has mortgage insurance.

So yeah. So each, there's just so many different types of mortgage people can get to. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and I think down payment assistance programs too. I personally hate them. Like, I know that sounds crazy and it sounds like unethical maybe, or I hate them because when I first started the industry, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is going to help so many of my buyers.

Like everybody who's 22, 23 should like use these. So I had all these clients and some of them, my friends, when I started, when, after I graduated. Um, [00:30:00] Um, and then when the refi boom happened and people were getting rates in threes and twos, they couldn't refinance. And so you 

Megan: do 

Theoni: down payment assistant, you can't refinance.

So a lot of these are state programs and there's no free money in real estate. I literally just made a tick talk about that this morning. There's no free money when you buy a house. It is somewhere like you're paying for it somewhere. If it's not now, it's in the future. If it's not monetary, it's in service.

Like it's something. And so. I, I realized that they didn't even tell lenders that either though. So I was putting all these people in these programs and then when they were like, Hey, let's refinance. They couldn't. They had to be, they had to have those terms for five to seven years before they could like, they missed out on like a really good rates.

Exactly. Wow. Wow. And so I was like, what? And the rates that we may never see again. No, we probably won't see those rates ever again. 

Megan: Wow. 

Theoni: Which is nuts. And so now I think, okay, all for five grand that they gave you and the process is longer because it has to come out of our house [00:31:00] underwriting into like the state's house underwriting.

And I mean, everybody has different opinions about the government, but we can all agree that they're slow. And so they don't care when you're closing. So when you're in a highly competitive situation and you're a first time homebuyer using one of those programs, let's say you're a seller. If there's a conventional loan, that's not using that down payment since program can close in 15 days.

And then there's one that needs 45 days to close because you're using the state's down payment assistance program, which one are you going to choose? So it's always Also unfortunate because we don't have any control over when they approve that loan. So we have to go in hoping 45 days. I mean, I've seen some take even like six months.

Megan: Oh my gosh. Oh gosh. Yeah. That was during 

Theoni: COVID time. 

Megan: So with the six months, like can the people who are selling the house just be like, I don't want to wait that long. Oh yeah. Yeah. So like you have to have both parties 

Theoni: willing to like wait six months because you agree on a closing date when you accept an offer.

Um, and then the other thing is interest rate lock ins [00:32:00] to like when you lock in an interest rate, it's not forever and ever and ever. Like it's a, it's a fixed rate so it doesn't change. But yeah. When you actually lock it in, it's good for 45 or 30 days. So you have to close within those times, like that timeframe.

And the longer you lock in an interest rate, the higher the interest rate is because you're protecting yourself against the movement of the market. So what people don't understand too, is especially when they buy these new construction homes, and we're seeing a lot of that down here, new construction is his own, like.

Um, I just I just hate the way that like, I mean, it's a whole again, I made it tick talk about literally the same thing. There's no free money in real estate, but, um, when people buy new construction home, the interest rate, again, doesn't matter when. They tell you what it will be because it's not until 30 days from when you can get the keys that they lock you in and you don't know what the market's going to do.

Megan: Waiting for six months, your interest rate could change a million times. Exactly. Yeah. Wow. I didn't know that. That's wild. You have so much [00:33:00] great information. Thanks. I'm really, I'm glad that you're doing a tick tock. Let's talk about new construction. Cause that is like, especially now in Sussex County.

It's even here in Kent County, like they're building everywhere. So much stuff everywhere. Um, and in areas I personally don't think they have the infrastructure for this many houses. No. Um, but that's a whole nother topic. Uh, but what do you, what do you not like about them? What's your, what's your, 

Theoni: I think Um, I think it's, it's just too, I guess, monopolize is the word, um, cause you have the builder and then I don't know if you guys know, but when you use the builder's lender or their in house lender, you get incentivized by like 10 or 15 grand is usually the number.

And I have a. A lot of good friends that work for some big builders and they call me all the time and they're like, it's just so frustrating that we can't just use you because these people see this number that the builder pays the lender. Um, but it's caked into the price right at the end of the day.

It's like, Oh, we'll give you 15, 000 of closing cost [00:34:00] assistance, but they're 

Megan: already paying for it because it's marked up another like 50, 

Theoni: 000 and you can't be like, well, I don't want to pay it in the sales price because they're going to be like, all right, well get out of line because there's somebody else who would.

Right. So I just think it. I mean, I don't know like what the fix is. I don't know if there is one because I guess like that's just what happens when there's not enough inventory and there's a lot of demand. So people will just pay the price. But what I wish people would understand or know more of is if you're going to buy a new construction home with this.

Those terms, I'm not saying it's a necessarily bad thing because they do use it sometimes to like buy down your interest rate and things of that nature. But you have to live in that house for about seven or eight years to see that appreciation come back. Now, unless you live in like downtown Lewis and they just built like a new construction home or something there, but anywhere else it's going to take some time because they take everything into the price.

So the market's not going to move as quickly. Yeah. So you're 

Megan: paying really much more than the house is actually worth. Interesting. Interesting. 

Theoni: But it doesn't matter if you're going to live [00:35:00] there for like seven or eight years, but most first time homebuyers will switch after like three to five. Oh, really?

Yeah. People 

Megan: don't usually 

Theoni: stay for their first home very long? No, not very long. Cause I mean, if you think about it, your first home is usually like a townhouse or a condo or something and then you find somebody and you have kids and then your family grows and you need some more room. And so that's the predicament a lot of people are having now is, I mean, Even my husband and I in 2021, um, I bought my first house in Bethany beach or Millville technically.

And, um, it was supposed to be a starter home. I was like, I can't wait to fix this up. And then like do a couple of things and then flip it, sell it and like two or three years and then buy something else. And then I found out I was pregnant the night before we closed on the house. So I was like, Oh, okay.

So now I have nine months to like make this thing, you know, livable. And it was like, It wasn't in bad condition, but it was like grandma's house. So we totally remodeled it, but that's, you know, a lot of people right now. And then we were able to snag, you know, at the time I was [00:36:00] working for the bank. And so I got like a three and a half or 3.

25 percent interest rate. And so I'm like, well, that sounds pretty good. You know, with the 7 percent rate, like, so now we're just making it work. We love the neighborhood. We didn't think we were going to like, love the area, but. We just don't love the house, but there's a lot of people who are stuck saying we couldn't buy the same house now that we did in 2020 and they have kids and their family's growing.

And so they're like stock. So a lot of people 

Megan: are 

Theoni: stuck in a lot of people are stuck. Yeah. 

Frank: What do you think is going to have to change? Yeah. 

Theoni: What do you project? So I think like a normal market. Is anywhere between four and a half to five and a half percent. And like, that's typically what's considered, you know, normal.

And so I think that once we start to see that level, people will be able to give up those like lower interest rates. And I also think with credit card debt, people are going to have to, to pay off that debt. That like a massive credit card debt that they're in. So at the same time that you're paying off credit card debt, you're qualifying and your purchasing power goes [00:37:00] up because now your debt is kind of gone.

So you have to sell and make a profit to pay off that debt in order to even buy your next house. So I do think once rates come down, I think like for every point, it's about 3 million households that enter back into the market or close. could enter back into the market. So I do think like as we progress downward and I think it'll be quick, just as quick as interest rates shot up, which was like in a month, I think it'll be just as quick than they shoot down.

Cause I think the fed, the fed is a bunch of lawyers and like I've studied them enough to be able to say this. So I feel like they're, they're not true. You know, it's like the same thing with professors. They don't have businesses. Are not economists, so like they, and they're not mortgage bankers and they're not real estate agents and they're not like in the market and they don't feel it themselves.

So I think they're going to catch it too late, just like they did the first time. So when inflation was like rising up and they were like. Here's all this money and you know, [00:38:00] they were just pretending like inflation was here and then they caught it when it was all the way up here and they were like, Oh crap, it's at 12%.

We need to do something drastic. 

I 

Theoni: think the same is going to happen the other way where they're like keeping rates so high and inflation is actually lower than what it's showing. And then they're going to catch it and be like, Oh crap, we're at negative inflation. We need to, we need to hike these rates down and get one month.

Megan: That'll just be like. Bam. Yeah. 

Theoni: 4%. That's my Vic. Very bullish prediction. I love that we have this on recording. 

Megan: If it happens, I'll like re release this. Yes. Please. We have this happen here on the 3rd of July. We called 

Frank: it. 

Megan: She called 

Frank: it. That's awesome. 

Megan: Now, you also don't care a lot about the community.

You're a very community oriented person. Um. Yeah. What do you, 'cause you have a podcast, can you talk a little or you, you do seasons of a podcast. Yes. Tell us a little bit about that. 

Theoni: Yeah, so like I've talked about on, on here today, a lot of my content online is so facing, like nationally. And so the podcast for me is my outlet to plug in local businesses, um, and in a way that like I can use [00:39:00] my platform that I've built to.

Help other small businesses. And I just think it's a really unique place that we live. And people are always surprised at this, like tiny little tick tocker lives in Delaware and I'm like, it's really cool. We have like beaches and stuff like it's really fun. Um, and so the, the podcast, it's called not your daddy's podcast, which is very on brand for everything else is kind of like the rawness of these businesses.

So when I have them on, it's not so much like, what do you do and give me all the like, Butterflies and sunshine. It's like, how did you get here? And like, what really sucks about it? You know, it's like, tell me the rawness. I love that. Yeah. 

Megan: Yeah. We actually, as we're starting this, one of the things, our second business, one of the things I find really fascinating is how much people don't talk openly about how hard it is, you know?

And it's so interesting because when we're talking about like, Nobody talks about what it's like to go from absolutely zero clients to having clients to, you know, to growing that it's just not a discussed [00:40:00] thing that I find it was so crazy now that I'm in it. I'm like, we should talk about this more 

Theoni: because you, I think that the problem is as entrepreneurs and like for me as, as a mom too, like we don't have the time.

So we're like all silently suffering. As like business owners, we're like, no, one's talking about it. Cause no one has the time to talk about it, but we're all on the same boat, but like no one, but it feels very isolating. You're like very much on this lonely road. And I see it all the time. Cause my husband and I work very closely with his marketing company.

Um, when businesses do scale to build systems, because that happened to me where in 2020, I blew up and got like 400 applications, that was the first time I ever went viral on Tik TOK. But I did not have. Um, and so I lost so, so many potential clients and money and business because I just didn't have anything set up.

I didn't have a system. I didn't have a filter. I didn't have the, the people were just emailing me. And so I was like, well, okay, and I stayed up for three nights and that was just [00:41:00] useless because I just didn't do anything. So now when he helps businesses, when they are starting to scale that way, it's like, how do you do it in a way that is smarter?

Because I think. Like, you know, our background, like my parents were always like, I don't know if your parents were, but I'm sure they were. You just kind of have to struggle a little bit to get money, but I don't think that's the truth. I think there is actually a really easy way to do it and people have cracked that code.

And so I think it's with like systems and scaling that it can be easier, but we think we have to earn it. earn it. So we put ourselves in these like really tough 

Megan: spots. I remember reading early on though, too, is, and I do see this all the time with any of our friends and it's like, one, no one's ever going to do it as good as you.

So then it's like hiring expectations. It's like, well, no one's good. It's like, no, they're fine. If they can do an 80 percent of you, that's a great hire. Even 60 percent is a good hire. Like it's, you're not going to have you. Um, and then they feel like they have to do everything themselves. Because they're the ones that are good at it.

So then it's like, I had to do every system and you're like, you can't, if you're going to have a lot of clients, you [00:42:00] can't do everything yourself. 

Theoni: No. A hundred percent. And I, my husband drills this into my brain sometimes because I think that if, if you're not a successful entrepreneur, I don't think you think about quitting and just getting a fricking nine to five job with benefits and stability at least once a week.

And like I tell him that all the time and he's like, the only, what would you do with You're nine to five. Like, think about all that time that you have now. And so he always reminds me, I just hired somebody to take on a lot of my, um, tick tock leads. And that was like, kind of scary. Cause I was like, do I have enough or like, you know, and like, there's never enough and whatever.

But, um, he was like, think about all the times that you could be in your working genius that somebody else could take on the tasks that you are actually not even as good at anymore, because you've done them for so long that you're on like autopilot and it's not even fun. Anymore. And I was like, that's so true.

Yeah. You just don't think about the opportunity costs of, 

Megan: of doing something else. Yeah. And your time should be spent doing things that make you money. And now that things aren't beneficial, but [00:43:00] doing those leads, someone else can do it. That's 

Theoni: my genius. Like my, my working genius is I love content creation and I love educating people on like, and simplifying these like mortgage concepts and home buying hacks and things like that.

My working genius is not blocking out. Three to 7 PM and getting on calls and making sure I follow up and like email drips and things like that. Yeah. I'm just really good at being that front facing person and bringing them in and getting them like comfortable. So you need back of the house people. Yes.

Frank: Yeah. That's good to know though. That's good to know your own role. 

Theoni: Yeah. 

Frank: Cause we were just talking to another friend of ours that, um, I think he's been in business for a little bit of time and I think he's just now realizing, oh, I really like front of house and I don't like back house. Yeah. He's been around for a little bit of time.

Megan: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

Frank: I'm not going to name drop anyone. 

Megan: At first I was like, who is this? Uh, I do. I think a lot of people have like one or the other, but I think a lot of, especially service based industries, they're really good at the service, but the back of the house, they're really bad at. Yeah. All of, I think for a lot of my [00:44:00] family members, I'm like, yeah.

And 

Theoni: I think it's tough to say that, like, I think a lot of people are either embarrassed or feel like they're not worthy enough to say it because they have to just be good at everything. If you're especially running your own business or, you know, if you're in sales or you're in a commission role. And so I think it's, it's tough to be like, you know what, I'm actually not that great at that.

And I don't even like it. Like I'm really good at this. And if I like it, I'll do more of it. And then I need to. Plug in people who finish, you know, flying the plane. Yeah. 

Megan: Well, I always love systems and procedures because that actually takes, even if you have to be the person, if you're not ready to hire someone, if you have a system procedure, then it's still help streamline stuff.

So you don't spend as much time on it because it's not just based on when you want to do it. It's like, okay, I, every day from this time, you know, this hour I do this one thing I don't like. But. But it's only one hour a day because it's systematized versus like you put it off. Yeah, a lot of people will put it off and then like spend days on it because it got too big.

Theoni: I think that's why hiring people is so tough too because, um, and my husband Phillip works with people on [00:45:00] developing SOPs where like, you know, you should have a Google drive of what your daily tasks are and it feels silly when you're the only one. Like in your business. Cause you're like, who am I showing?

But he says that if you don't have those things in place, you can't get mad at people that you hire that don't do it the same way that you do. I literally 

Megan: say that all the time. I was actually talking to somebody about that and I, they were like, I always have to be the one to do this. I don't want to do this job anymore.

I was like, well, does anyone else know how to do it? And they're like, no. And I was like, well, you should write it all down. Like write down what you do every day, write down how you do it. And then write down even what makes you special when you do it. Like, why are you? You know, why do you feel like you have to be the one to do it?

And then you hire someone with that trait and then you can replace yourself. But if you have no idea actually what you're doing, that's successful, then you can't really hire yourself. But also imagine, I'm sure your husband's big on metrics too, because that's the other thing. Sometimes people think they're being successful at something and then you're like, it's just the way that they've done it for so long.

Yeah. And it's also like, yeah, a lot of entrepreneurs do things on feeling and they're like, I feel Feel good about this. And I'm like, okay, I don't care if you feel good about it. Like it's not, it's not [00:46:00] just about feeling good, but like, do your numbers match your feelings? And then if they don't, cause also it's the feeling bad.

Sometimes I'm the person that's like, Oh, it's been a hard month. Did we even see people? And we'll look and be like, Oh, it's great. So numbers are good both ways, depending on how your brain works. Cause 

Frank: this last month, you know, we just switched our hours so that we could have a three day weekend because she's two days down at the beach, Tuesdays and Thursdays.

And I love spending time with her. So we were Friday and I was like, let's just take Friday off and have a three day weekend. I can hang out with her a little bit more. And in my brain, I'm like, Oh my gosh, like we, We like switch the days. Like no one came in that day because it's a new hour. And then we were off for Memorial day.

And then she just like pulled the numbers up right before you came in. And that's actually really good. Like, that's where I want to be anyways. So we're like, huh? Why did it feel like it 

Megan: felt like it wasn't a busy month. Your feelings 

Frank: can lie to you. Yeah. Feelings 

Megan: always lying, but never trust your feelings in business.

No, 

Theoni: no. I think. And that is so true too with like with my career, because I feel like a lot of what I do, especially on weekends is when people tour [00:47:00] house, they'll text me and be like, Hey, we really like these. Can we see the numbers? And so there could be weekends that feel like a week in itself and then they don't go under contract or they get outbid.

And so I'm like doing all this business. Busy work. And I'm like, man, I feel so busy. I've got to be crushing it this month. And it's like one loan in 

the pipeline. I'm like, are you kidding? 

Megan: That's I've, I've, once I like started doing data, that's like one of my favorite things that I would tell any entrepreneur because it will help you mentally so much too.

And just understand actually how your business is running, but also you can start tracking like what works, what gets people in, right? You wouldn't know. Tick tock. It's just so many people. If you don't track it. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's, it's huge. Yeah. So any entrepreneur listening, track everything.

Track 

Theoni: everything. I mean, and it's. It feels silly in the beginning for sure. When it's just you, that's when, that's how you can scale. So quick is like once you can track all that stuff and make sure it's working 

Megan: for what is another business tips that 

Theoni: you have found? Um, so I think while we're kind of on the topic of feeling like, you know, like the working genius and saying no to things we're not [00:48:00] good at on social media.

I think that that could be such a big thing for businesses. And if you haven't tapped into it already, I just think people are just, I don't know, it like makes me sad to think that social media isn't a part of people's lives because every day I wake up and I'm like, that's just part of what I do. Like that my work is, I love it.

Like, I just think it is the coolest thing to reach that many people and to be able to get to help so many people. And it's fun. Like, I don't know. That's just what I think. It's such 

Frank: a great marketing tool that we didn't have. Yes. Like you said, it was just. So many more people than, well, it goes directly to 

Theoni: people or 

Frank: like a yellow page, right?

I don't even know a newspaper clipping. I don't know. 

Theoni: And even back then, I think like the name personal or the term personal branding is so new and raw, but that's never been a thing before because even in the yellow pages, it was businesses. Right. You know what I mean? But if you think about it, like, who do you guys follow on Instagram?

It's not businesses. It's people. It's people. So it's, it's like, how do I turn in, how do I turn my business into a brand? That personal brand where there [00:49:00] is a face to it and I'm getting people in because of that person. And so I feel like that's what I do. Mm-Hmm. . Like, it's not because I'm in mortgages, it's not because I'm with Annie McComb mortgage, which you, which you guys didn't even know 'cause like it's not the company I'm with, it's the person who I am.

Mm-Hmm. . And it's the brand that I've built for myself. So I think that. When businesses are starting, the biggest thing that they, I think, try to do is box their ideal client. And I hate that term so much. You don't like 

Megan: ideal client. No. Oh, I'm so intrigued by that. It's huge. It's so 

Theoni: big. Cause that's like the, for when you're meeting with any market.

And I love that my husband has this because I'm like, we're never using, like, you're never using that in your marketing consultations. Um, and it's, I don't think it's ideal client. I think it's, Pain points. And so interesting. I think your pain points, and I did this too for a long time because Pete, like you asked, you know, who are the, what age group, um, do you usually help?

But for me, I think in the last couple of years, I realized that with the growth of tick tock and all the different age groups on there, it's people who just feel like, why [00:50:00] can't I buy a house? I'm highly qualified. Why am I not getting the service that I need? And that person could be 23 or that person could be, I don't know why that just happened or that person could be.

53, 

Megan: right? Like the age of your avatar doesn't really matter. 

Theoni: Yep. And things that they like to do or places that they like to visit. Like all of that. I think it's at the end of the day, as a business, you're solving a problem and you're, you're catching people at where they are. So like for me, a lot of times these people are on their couches feeling defeated, scrolling on Zillow at night, trying to figure out what the heck house do we even buy or Googling different programs to help them with buying.

So when they come across my video, I am meeting them exactly where. Their pain point is. And so I think as businesses, we kind of have to think about that more than problem 

Megan: you're solving is more important than who you're solving it for. Yeah. What a refreshing view. Cause we do ideal clients. They 

Frank: use the word ideal client, who's your avatar, who you're trying to serve.

And all of these, some people 

Theoni: like draw them and I'm like, like a picture. [00:51:00] Yeah. Oh, that's fine. They'll they'll name them. And I'm like, yeah, no, but that was like 

Megan: lemon naming ones 

Frank: are lemon made that really popular. 

Theoni: They did. Yeah. But I'm like, well, you don't want to just help Sidney or Terry or Alex. Like you want to be able to help whoever you can best help.

And sometimes people, I think maybe your avatar isn't that person. Like I used to think that my, when I did do the avatar thing. It was a 25 year old girl who was fresh out of college, um, had a corporate job, like was just looking for a starter home. But honestly, when I started getting those clients, cause I would make contents like that, they would be the ones that had dads who would give them gifts and their dads were like, if I'm going to give you 20 grand towards closing, then like you're using the cheapest possible lender we can find on the internet.

So I do all of this work for this ideal client that I thought could You know, I met, I meshed with them. I'm in their same generation. They understood me. They really liked me. We got along. And then a lot of those clients came with those dads [00:52:00] that would push them to another lender. So 

Frank: your name came from 

Theoni: now, your daddy's under, 

Megan: yeah.

I think that for people who do, I don't client work. I do think it's important to, one of the things I see is people will not always describe who they do their best work with because we've had some, some people we've talked with in our field and they'll describe people. And I'm like, But like, is that who you do your best work with?

Who do you like love working with? And like, no, that's who I want to work with, but they're doing the best work. Like one person would describe like they want to work with moms, but they have no idea how to talk to moms. And I was like, why, why are you putting that as your ideal client? Yeah. Um, because it seemed cool.

And do you think that is a trap with it? So I'm not like anti ideal clients, but I do think you have to have full self awareness. Yeah. Well, this person actually did amazing with grandma's, um, and there's, there's a whole like market for that. And so like knowing yourself and who you do, do your best work with that should drive.

Um, I do a client not necessarily like who you think is cool to work with. So I think that's also like a miscommunication, miscommunication. [00:53:00] Understanding with that, that a lot of entrepreneurs do is they'll be like, because they, you see things from the outside, like the little lemon stuff. And they're like, Oh, they deemed an ocean.

They described them that they do this. And they're like, you know, living in these high tower apartments, wearing Lulu clothes, but it's like, not necessarily who's wearing them, but it does have a, like, that's who they're marketing to is that dream of that. And I think the miss, there's a lot of misconception of what I do client really.

necessarily like who you're going to be working with every day and you have to hold both thoughts. And I feel like a lot of people can't be like, this is who you're talking to from marketing. Yeah. Versus this is actually who you're selling to and they're not going to look the same, but this person over here will like this marketing.

Right. Um, so there is a lot to it in the sense, I think a lot of these things that become really popular just have more depth to them than people realize. Cause like pain points, that's part of, I've, I've, I do clients should have. What are their pain points? Because if you're just describing their clothes and you're not, um, and where they live, but you're not looking at why are they buying your product, then you don't know what you're selling.

A hundred percent. Yeah. It's a, it is an interesting topic [00:54:00] to talk about these stuff because there's so much more detail to it than people realize in the superficial of like, what's your avatar? 

Theoni: Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And I think once you get really specific with, I think some of those pain points, or at least for me, I've come to find that I never run out of like content ideas, how do you always come up with something to talk about?

I'm like, because I know what people, I can better help. Like I know what that client feels when they roll into my DMS and so I just continuously, you can talk to them. 

Megan: Yeah. Yeah. That's so powerful in selling. Makes sense why you're so popular. 

Theoni: And it's so fun. Like, it's crazy to me that it doesn't even feel like selling, even though it's a technically a sales role.

Right. But it's like, I've always had the mentality where when I first got started in the industry, um, it was just an older industry where I was handed a list of real estate agents at the time it was in Baltimore. And it was like, call these people. Cause they do a lot of numbers. And so I was going to like, Dinners and like coffees with [00:55:00] really successful real estate agents.

But they were like 60 and males and like I had nothing. I was like 18 years old. I was like, I have nothing in common with you. Yeah. Like 

Megan: how's your family ? Yeah, I was. I was like, I don't, the last night I'm 

Theoni: a new loan officer and you kill it and I'm just starting out. So like what are we talking about? So I think early on I realized like.

The way I'm doing it and the way I've done it with social is I was like laughed at for so long. Like people in the industry were like, dude, just do it this way. It's tried and true. Like if you do it this way, you'll just crush it in your first couple of years and you'll be able to say that. And I'm like, I'd rather make nothing and do it the way that is sustainable.

And now I'm starting to see like the last year and a half, honestly, after being on social so much have been like where the fruits of my labor has started to. And so I think that's. The thing that nobody talks about too is I started in 2019, but I didn't start with cold calling or selling the traditional way.

I've done things very differently than most people in this industry, and I could have just picked up the phone and cold called every Sussex County real estate agent and taken 'em [00:56:00] out to, 

Megan: I feel like you would've hated that too. I would hated it. . Yeah, because I think that right now it's like meeting, meeting people.

You don't. doing these things you don't love to do and I'm all for hard work and doing whatever it takes. But it's like, there's multiple ways to be successful. And so if this one way just doesn't feel good, I actually think sometimes you could do that. And if you hate every second, you're not as successful because, um, one it's miserable, but it shows up with how you sell too.

So if you're doing actions that you hate and then you're trying to sell while doing something you hate. It's very different than if you are loving doing social media. It doesn't feel like work. I mean, that shines through on video so much. It feels like the biggest hack ever. But then it's like, then you start to attract people.

You're going direct to consumer, not necessarily through the real estate agents, which is like really empowering. And it's probably why they might have gotten made fun of because you're not. Yeah. Well, there's also a lot of other 

Theoni: loan officers that like, you know, have done this for 20 plus years and they were like, why are you doing it this way?

And I'm like, because it works. I feel like I've only ever heard 

Frank: loan officers talk about the traditional route. Oh, I'm just [00:57:00] all about the connections with the real estate agent. So I'm like meeting with this person. Yeah. But honestly, I 

Theoni: just feel like that's so icky. Like, so you're just going to send them your number because they pay for your marketing or they pay for something of yours.

But not how good of a person they are or the fact that they have a family and you like connect with them or that, like, you don't look at your phone when that person calls and think, Oh, like, that's just such a crazy way. And when we're in an industry where we can choose to work with whoever we want to, like, why would you choose to work with people who just do the numbers, but make your life miserable?

And I've been there too. Cause like, I mean, I was at one point working with people who would call me on a Saturday and I was like, this sucks. I don't want to talk to you, especially on a Saturday. you'll get me a client. Sure. But it just doesn't feel good. And then I don't know. I feel like you owe them something 

Megan: all the time.

Yeah, that's not so you're really shaking up the industry, which I love. I kind of hope so. The thing is you can't just keep doing things the way, I mean, look at how many industries where You know, this is the way it's always been [00:58:00] done until someone does it different. And then now this new thing will become the way because direct to consumer is becoming huge in almost every industry.

So like yours is probably a little behind on that. Yeah. We're the only country 

Theoni: in the world. The U S is, I think, actually, no, I think Mexico is this way too. Um, maybe, but. Everywhere else, people go to the lender first and then the lender connects them with the real estate agent. 

Frank: What order should people actually go and do this?

Theoni: Cause I mean, if you think about it, I mean, unless you're buying just cash, right, because then you don't need financing. So you don't need a loan officer at all. But if you're trying to finance something, why would you go to a real estate agent who can't tell you what you're pre approved for? They're, they're just going to send you to the real or to the lender that like pays for their marketing or is in like an agreement with them.

For something. Why wouldn't you go to a loan officer that you trust with your money and like your bank statements and you're like really important documents first and then have that lender help you either find a real estate agent or find one, you know, the same way that [00:59:00] you found me. 

Frank: Right. 

Megan: Well, also as a consumer, I want to know that the people are working for me, not for my real estate agent.

Like I want to know that the lenders not going to do them a favor and it's helping me. You know, I want to be the. You know, client, um, that's hiring versus when you're just recommended, you don't really know the background relationship. Like I would, if I am recommended, I want to know what their relationship is.

Is there a kickback? Is there, um, what, what, what are the benefits of this relationship? And is it the right person for me versus like. If I find out myself that my relationship is just with 

Theoni: you, right. So I feel like there's more trust. A hundred percent. Yeah. And that's where it kind of gets iffy because a lot of these consumers do find me first.

And then I have a Rolodex of real estate agents that I think are wonderful that most of them around the country I found online too, through Tik TOK or Instagram too. And so I will refer if a client asks me, but if they find their own real estate agent, The last couple of years, I can't even count how many times that real estate agent has been like, Oh, you're, it's a tick tock lender.

Like, who's that? I'm like, come use my lender. And so [01:00:00] that sucks. Cause I'm like an actual person and I'm not like a quick and loans or a rocket 

Megan: local person who's living in this community. Um, it's like, who would, why would you not want to do business with you? It's so crazy. 

Frank: Do you 

do 

Frank: commercial as well? 

Theoni: I don't, but I do have, but I do know people who, yeah, who do that.

Um, so yeah, new, new construction is like a whole different loan. I always tell people for like land and new construction loans, either local banks are the place to go for those. Um, and then commercials like its own. So residential is what I'm, my bread and butter refives and purchases all the stuff. Well we 

Megan: are over an hour now.

Oh my gosh. I know. That was quick. Um, is there anything you want to leave the listeners with? Um. And then how they can find you 

Theoni: on TikTok? Yeah. So I am Theoniethelender on everything. So I keep it super, super easy. Um. Yeah. Um, my favorite quote that I always say that it's like coming back now that I'm pregnant AF [01:01:00] and not feeling like doing anything is that my goals don't care how I feel.

So if you guys find me on there, I'm always going to be saying your goals don't care how you feel. And that's just like a reminder that I've needed recently. So if you're listening and needed that reminder. Your goals don't care.

Frank: for listening to the three Oh two podcast. I am your host, Dr. Frank Chi with my lovely wife and cohost, Dr. Megan Epps. We are your local nervous system based chiropractors who have a passion for contributing to our community. And giving back as we have been so lucky to be blessed living here in Delaware.

We've created this as a way to support our community through showcasing local small businesses and people who are making a difference in Delaware. The best way for you to support those who have been featured and our local Delaware podcast is to follow. Share and like us over at Instagram. Our handle is at the three Oh two podcast.

If you would like to be a guest or sponsor, please visit our website at the [01:02:00] three Oh two podcast. com. If you are interested in chiropractic care or reaching out to myself or Dr. Epps, visit our website at Dover healthcare center. com and send us a message. We look forward to sharing more with you through the Sierra and beyond.