S2Ep25: Skip Ford on Community, Service, and Leadership

Skip Ford is a servant leader that focuses on individual and team development to ensure mission accomplishment. He is culminating a 38- year career in the U.S. Air Force at the highest enlisted rank. He is a married father of four and prides himself in his involvement in myriad community initiatives and looks forward to more engagement in retirement. 

Transcript

My given name is Brian Ford. Um, but everybody in Delaware knows me as skip Ford. Um, been here since 1987. Um, husband to an amazing person, Becca Ford. Um, great friend, educator, you know, entrepreneur. We just have a lot of fun. Uh, I have four children, two from first marriage and the two I have now. Um, my, my first marriage children.

Um, and my younger two are Nick and Jack, Nick's going to be a freshman at Poly and Jack is going to be a 7th grader at Postal Weight, so that's our, yes, our blended family and we love each other and it's awesome and, um, my oldest daughter actually lives a block from our house. Oh, cool. In our neighborhood.

Very cool. Which is really cool. So my granddaughter is over all the time. It's just an amazing setup. Yeah, to have that community. Yep. And have everyone nearby. Yep. That's really special. Now you're in the military. I am for a few more months. You are [00:01:00] getting ready to retire. Yes. Oh my gosh. And how long have you been in the military?

Uh, it's been a 38 year journey. Wow. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. What's your current role? You're getting ready to retire. So I am currently the senior enlisted leader of the 512th aircraft maintenance squadron. So my, my role is to be the top enlisted person for that unit. Um, little under 200 people in that unit.

Um, I've been fortunate that I've spent my entire career at Dover. Um, the unfortunate part is they're running out of jobs for me. So that's why you have to retire. Right. Yeah. Um, I did nine years active duty here, uh, got out, but I remained a reservist, which was, uh, at the moment seemed, uh, I'll just stay in the reserve and do it.

It wound up being a lifesaver for me because the company I'd mentioned in a previous conversation with you guys, um, Had gone out of business. And had I [00:02:00] not had the affiliation with the reserve, I would have literally been out of work, completely out of work. And they were able to bring me in on an order for a little bit, um, to help, uh, move the Air Mobility Command Museum from its old space to its new space.

And while I was on that order, another civilian employee retired and I was able to get hired on as an air reserve technician. And I've been that ever since and climbed through the ranks of that organization. Just been very, very fortunate. Timing has been great and just wonderful teams of people I've worked with.

But, um, I've been fortunate enough to lead all of the maintenance units at Dover. Oh, wow. Every single one. Every single one of them. Do you really know Dover? Yes. Yes. I really know the base. Um, I was talking to a young person a couple weeks ago and they're like, oh, Chief, you've been doing this for 38 years.

It's a long time. I said, yeah. I said, here's crazy. I've been doing the Air Force for half Force's life. [00:03:00] Because the Air Force is 76 years old and the Air Force Reserve is 75 years old this year. And I've been doing it for half of its existence. From context, it would be what the Air Force was like when it changed from the Army Air Corps to the Air Force in 1947.

What it was like in 1947 to what it was like in 1986 when I joined. Think of the differences there and now think of the differences from 1986 to 2024. Wow. What's the evolution you've seen? What are the biggest changes? I mean, obviously there's gotta be a lot in that timeframe, but what are some of the biggest things?

Sure. You know, honestly, I, I, when, when I joined the military and my peers and I joined the military in the mid eighties, the economy wasn't great. Uh, jobs were hard to find and there was a, there was a strong lure to serve. Uh, there was a strong lure to find a good, solid job that was going to pay a good retirement.

Um, the military at that point, uh, you [00:04:00] know, this is pre desert storm. This is the middle of the cold war, the middle of the end of the cold war. You know, uh, the, the Russian Federation began to collapse in 1989 when the Berlin wall dropped and, you know, there's a lot of things going on in the late eighties and early nineties, the desert storm, obviously it was another big, big pill.

But before we, before all of that happened, it was just cold war posture, huge military, huge air force, tons of money, you name it. In the ensuing. almost 40 years, our military is half the size it was when I joined. Our air force is half the size it was when I joined. But our mission never went away. The mission is actually more intricate, more, uh, diverse, more involved around the planet than it ever has been.

And we're doing it with half the people and probably half the budget if I had to guess, but I'm, you know, I don't have those numbers, but so, so the biggest thing I've seen is that we've equipped our, our, members [00:05:00] now to not just do the chapter and verse job that they signed up for. They've got to be multi talented.

They've got to be multifaceted. They have to be able to think on their feet. Lucky for us, the young folks that are coming in today are used to that. They're used to carrying on a conversation. You and me playing on their phone, you know, Earpod in their ear, listening to a song while they're watching TV in the corner.

They can do like four things at once. And for someone my age, it's difficult because we're very linear thinkers. You know, we're A to B to C and you know, uh, every action has a result and I'm going to see the result immediately. That kind of, that's the, that's the mindset that is that, you know, young people, they, they, they think very quickly, uh, and they move from point to point to point to point, and they don't necessarily go in order.

Mom. And it's interesting to see how they tackle problems. They tackle problems way differently than I did. So one of the challenges I've seen over the years is how do you, how do I remain a relevant leader in an [00:06:00] organization where everybody's speaking a different language, where everybody's thinking in a different context where they're on, you know, One of the, a good friend of mine, he was getting frustrated.

He's a younger officer, uh, frustrated with the, with the workforce. Uh, things just weren't gelling correctly. I said, look, you're playing, you're playing tri level chess with people that play checkers. And I don't mean that to demean or diminish the checkers players, but it's a different game, completely different context.

Pieces look kind of the same. The board looks kind of the same. You're on a whole different dimension, doing a whole different series of thought processes and solutions to the problem that you see is very simple because you're an engineer by trade, right? That's just, that's how their mind works. Exactly.

So, you know, it's interesting how, um, young people and game theory and in gamers, how they think. Um, you know, they don't have any [00:07:00] trepidation jumping off a four story building cause they'll just lose two hearts and press on. Right. Somebody like me, I would never jump off a four story building in a game because I know that the result is I'm going to die when I fall off the four story building.

But to them, it's okay. You're allowed to push that boundary. That pushing of boundaries creates a whole set of powerful things and creates a whole set of problems, you know, because we, we live in an analog age with an analog aircraft. And we have a bunch of digital thinkers running around, right? So there's challenges there too.

Um, but I think to answer your earlier question, you know, what, what change have I seen it, it's the fact that our people now are wicked smart. You think the people entering are more intelligent now? Then it's a different type of intelligence. Um, Um, I, I will submit to you that none of them can change the oil, own oil in their car, but they can tear a computer apart.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like different skill sets. Which is a, which is a more powerful tool right now. You know, I could take my car to the [00:08:00] dealership and they'll fix it for me and I don't need to worry about it. Right. I'll just go get a new car, you know, very consumerist answer to a question. Whereas somebody from my generation, we take it out to the barn or rip it, the whole thing apart, find the broken part, order the part, fix it, put it all back together and stand there and wipe her grubby hands dirty.

But now cars, you can't even newer cars. You can't even do that. Exactly. They're created. So you can't fix them. And why is that? Because the people that designed it are newer thinkers. No, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, The problem, I think in, in, in a lot of cases, their thought process in their mind is, look, this is a tool.

This car is a tool. It is not a collector's item. It is not a Porsche sitting in a garage with five other Porsches in the air conditioning. It is a tool that gets me back and forth to work. It's a means to an end. So I, if it doesn't work, it just go get another one. Right. So back to your original point about sustainability, you know.

The sustainability person that I am, I want to fix that thing because it's [00:09:00] perfectly fine. It just needs a little part. Other people just don't have the time for that. You know, their time is more valuable spent in a different pursuit. Cause they want to add value to our lives in a different way. Yeah.

Well, going off of like you, you see this in every industry is how, um, certain different age groups will look down and be like, I remember, I remember entering my field and I would go to like conferences and the, you know, the generation above me would be like, ah, millennials, they don't buy chiropractic the same, you know, and they were so frustrated because what we're selling to say the boomers is very, very different.

Different than selling to millennials and then even now selling to, for us, selling to the generation below us, what is it? X Gen Z, I think. Gen Z. Okay. Yeah. Gen Z is a whole different avenue too. And so you're mentioning it's like a whole different group coming in, how you have to adapt as a leader, right?

So you either can so there and be like, oh, that generation, they're the problem. Or you can say, okay, how do we. And so it seems like from what you're saying is that you're somebody who goes, well, how do we lead them? How do I [00:10:00] adapt to this younger group? What is the leadership skills you've had to develop in or shift and change as you've gone through your career?

Leadership is, is oxygen. It doesn't change. It's consistent. Leadership is consistent. The method by which you lead changes. And what I have found is that leading empathetically. Is what gets me across the bridge because no matter what, no matter who you're talking to, or no matter what group you're working with, if you can empathetically lead them, you've gotten in their shoes, you've gotten in their coveralls, you've gotten in their head, you've gotten in their heart.

And if you lead empathetically, you will always have that genuine connection to them, uh, that will Allow you to bridge that gap. You know, I walk in a room full, if, if I'm having a really bad day, the first thing I do is pull my, [00:11:00] my card out of the computer and I get up out of my desk and I walk down the hall and find young people and sit down and just talk to them, it does a few things for me.

First of all, it puts me back in my comfort zone, which is being, being around people, it gets me in touch with what they're thinking and feeling. And it. It's not a prepared meeting. So we've knocked down the pretense of, oh my gosh, here comes the chief and oh my gosh, he's going to want something from me and oh my gosh, I'm just going to run and hide, right?

When you have that relationship with your people, there's never that wall, that affront or that, you know, there's, there's never a barrier there to communication because you've built this empathetic relationship. I want to come in your space. You know, if I've got some tough news to share with my people, I never pulled them into my office to share that.

I go to their office. Why? That's their comfort zone. Why would I want to bring discomforting information to you and take you out of your comfort zone [00:12:00] to give it to you? That's horrible. Go to where they're comfortable. Go, go meet them on their side of the battlefield and say, Hey, here's what's coming.

Here's what we've got. We have a challenge. We need to work through it. I'm not the expert. I need your help. And you, you, you tackle it that way and they will stand behind you all the way to the end. And even if it fails, you failed as a group. You didn't fail as individuals. Yeah. You don't put it all in one person.

You can't. One person didn't create the problem. One person can't solve it. Right. Everybody looks at me. What are we going to do? Chief beats the crap out of me. Let's figure it out. We're a bunch of smart people here. And if, if the little computer thing on our phone can't tell us the answer. We're going to figure it out as humans.

You know, we are smart people. Let's do this. And maybe the smartest person isn't even in this building right now. Maybe we need to reach out and talk to someone else in a different career field and get their tape. Did you feel like leadership's innate to you or did you have to learn it? Well, I absolutely had to learn it.

Um, I was an only child [00:13:00] for 13 years, so I had to lead myself. Um, the problem was I, I was a, I was, I was a smart kid that was dumb. Um, Um, I was a smart kid that made stupid decisions and didn't apply myself where I needed to. And you know, I was too smart for my own good, um, which then led to, uh, leadership by heroics because I would just work harder than everybody else.

And then I found myself having all the answers to all the questions all the time and who picked me, you know, and, and that created, you know, with people I worked with and friends I had. And, you know, it just, it was such a horrible situation to put myself in because everything that I was seeing as a recognition of my intelligence was actually pushing everybody away.

So I was, I was a very arrogant, very smart, very gifted, very lonely person. [00:14:00] And, uh, one of my mentors said, okay, you know, it was a certain rank. I mean, master sergeant, he said, okay, buddy, you made, you made master. Good job. You kick butt. It's not about you anymore. And I didn't understand what that meant. I honestly didn't.

And he said, you, if you got here on your own work and with your own effort, you will know, you will not go any farther without a team and who's on your team right now. And I said, well, what do you mean? He says, if you don't answer that question, you're never going anywhere. You've got to have a team that's willing to work with you and for you and you work for them.

So about that same time, I went through a divorce and there was about a year and a half period where I literally went into hermit mode because I was working night shift, I was going to college and I was broke and I just all that the most important things for me were. Spending time with my daughters and eating food [00:15:00] and working and getting my education finished and figuring out who the heck I was, because apparently what I had done didn't work.

You know, it was the first thing I'd ever really failed at was the marriage and it was 15 years of marriage and, and it just, so, okay, let's figure out what part of it was on me. I need to learn more about myself. How did I get here? You know, I'm a mechanic. I want to fix it. I want to tear it apart in the shed and find the broken part.

Right. So then I was trying to find the broken part. Well, that led to a whole series of things I had to fix things. I had to learn. Well, how'd you start the process of learning this? You know, if, I mean, the first thing is saying like, Oh, I'm a part of this problem, which is huge. I'm skip. It's a 12 step program.

Yeah. So like, what are you, what are the tools? Like, cause there's other people that are going through what you've gone through. I'm sure. You know, some of it was, um, Reading a lot of reading, um, understanding or trying to understand who I was and how I got there. [00:16:00] Understanding that, you know, the, the path I had taken, although seems successful, wasn't, um, the people I love the most weren't around me anymore.

And that hurt. Um, I had a broken relationship with my father. Um, my mother lived far away. I had a little brother that I didn't know cause they had moved away. So, I mean, it was all, there was not a lot there to go on. So some of it was, you know, some of the catharsis was doing, doing some art. Some of the catharsis was working on an old car.

Some of the catharsis was just pouring all of my energy and effort into an education, but doing a lot of reading, you know, um, when a Brown and I became really close friends. We love her. Yeah. And it wasn't until I understood, um, that weakness wasn't a vulnerability that I started to come out of that really dark space [00:17:00] because up until that point, anytime weakness was around, the male figures in my family would shun the weakness.

And mask it with something either over intelligence, over exuberance, great sense of humor or something. They would mask their weaknesses with these tools. My grandfather was a clown. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way that he, every, he would talk, he would talk to that fence post over there. It would stand there long enough and not fall over, but he could, I mean, if he went grocery shopping, it was a three hour ordeal because he would literally go from person to person to person through the whole grocery store and have conversations for 15 or 20 minutes with every one of them, if he knew them or not.

But his outgoing personality and his sense of humor and his, you know, that Virginia good old boy down home. That's how he got through weaknesses that he had in his psyche. My father, on the other hand, has things that he struggled with and still struggles with as, [00:18:00] as an adult, but. He, his compensation is that he's extremely intelligent and gets involved with a lot of things.

So, you know, my role models were people that were really smart, that knew everything about everything and had great personalities, poof, here I am. Problem was I had problems too, things that I needed to deal with, things that I had to work through and work on and be around and relationships that I had to mend and relationships.

I had to just say, Hey, it's just not going to be there ever again. And, and then. Try to learn who I was and then try to be better at what I do. And in that effort, I realized that the people I could really count on, those were the ones that were on my team that my, you know, my mentor said, you need a team.

So then I started figuring out how do I build that team at work? How do I build that team in the organizations I work with downtown? How do I continue to influence people in a positive way? That doesn't shun them and makes them feel stupid. [00:19:00] So I had to get rid of two words in my lexicon. One was I, and one was me.

I had to get rid of them because every time I started a sentence with an I or a me, the other person in that conversation was already turning me off. And the other thing that I learned was, and I heard this from God knows where, uh, God gave you two ears and one mouth. For a reason, you need to listen twice as much as you talk.

And these were two things that were profound changers of how I dealt with groups of people. And I think that's where I started to grow up and learn. I didn't start growing up till I was 38, 39 years old and I'm still learning and I'm still growing and I'm still trying to be better and I'm still waking up every day going, man, I wish I could have done that differently yesterday and let's try not to do that again.

You know? Being in the military for 38 years, then you've seen a [00:20:00] lot of young people come through. Do you think there's a trend still with that mindset of weakness as a vulnerability? And what do you see them, how do you see them come over? Well, I mean, it depends on where you're coming from. You know, it depends on what you do in the military too.

It's, it's interesting that the groups of people that struggle the most with hurting themselves are, uh, maintenance people. And people that deal with security of others, when you say hurt themselves, what do you mean take their lives? So we see, especially in the air force, we see a lot of maintenance people and a lot of security forces, people hurting themselves.

Why is that? Is it because maintenance is the largest career field in the air force? Well, okay. That makes sense, but it's a percentage piece. It's not a per capita piece. And we had a lot of security forces, folks that hurt themselves. So what do those jobs have in common? There are long shifts. One group of people is trying to fix things.[00:21:00] 

And one people is trying to save people. Both are high stress, high pressure jobs, because when I go fix an airplane, if I don't fix it, right, there's lives at stake. Moreover, if I didn't fix it right the first time, what did I do wrong? So now there's this lot of self reflection of, man, I screwed that up.

And my might screw it up again and there's people's lives at stake and oh my gosh, and oh my gosh, oh my gosh. And you get this. And if you've got a person, person that has anxiety or isn't a great mechanic, but they're trying really hard and they just, every time they try to fix something, it doesn't get fixed.

What are you telling that person? My value is zero right now and I'm in a job. I don't really like it. A place that's not near my family with a bunch of people that are going, ah, you couldn't fix it. Ah, you know, And, and you begin this spiral, death spiral, if you will, and the security forces folks the same way, high pressure job, long hours, lots of boredom with sheer moments of sheer terror, and then lots of boredom again, and, you know, just [00:22:00] constant.

This, this cloud all the time and it never, it never relents. So I think our modern military, and back to your question, I hate to keep going down these rabbit holes, but it's all has context to the conversation. We are learning that the inside is more important than the outside at times. I think our emotional intelligence is gaining and growing in the military.

We understand that there's squishy bodies behind this uniform and those squishy bodies need help. Some people come into the military to try to escape a really bad situation they're in when they're 18 and at home. Well, guess what? The problems didn't go away when they enlisted, you know, they didn't leave them in a mud hole in Texas when they were doing pushups in the dirt.

They're still there, right? And sometimes. We can minimize those issues with, you know, good training and sense of camaraderie and sense of family that you get in the military. Other times you actually exacerbate that problem [00:23:00] because now you've put them on an island, you've isolated them. You know, the guy that your gal that, you know, the young lady that grew up in Boston, Massachusetts is now in the middle of the Pacific on a little island.

Knows nobody, doesn't understand the culture, never tasted this food before in a job they don't like and the heat and it's, you know, and it just, Downward spiral. So, you know, I think we spend a lot of time, uh, creating programs to deal with these problems when the program has always been there. It's called leadership.

We don't need another program. We just need people to engage as leaders. We need people to put down the mouse and put down the Excel spreadsheet and just go talk to their people. Because I'll tell you every single time I've had a save or have had a, uh, significant conversation with somebody who's going through something significant.

It all started with me going to their space and talking to them with a quick conversation. Um, creating that trust where they can [00:24:00] come to me and say, Hey, uh, hey, the other day you asked me how I was doing. I said, great. And I said, yeah, you weren't great. I could tell. Yeah, I'm not great and here's why. Yeah.

Being open and able for them to come to you. Creating that space. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Um, you know, people talk about, you know, Chief, you're an old guy. I can't believe you're on social media. Well, I'm glad I am because social media, I'll tell you a quick story. I was in Kuwait, uh, in the middle of the day there, middle of the night here.

Um, one of my airmen who was at another base from Dover sends me a DM and says, Hey, John posted something on Facebook that I don't like, and it's scaring me. We need to do something. Now John's in Dover. This other person's in Texas and I'm in Kuwait. So I said, let me check this out. So I go over and look, go on his page, start seeing all this crazy stuff on his page.

I'm like thinking on the clock, okay, was he drinking? Was he [00:25:00] having a rough night? Whatever, whatever. Start going back a couple of days and weeks prior to that, and you can see this real change in the demeanor of the posts and the tags and the texts. And then I go over to Insta and look at a few things on Instagram and it's the same thing.

Like, oh my gosh. So I DM this person's best friend at Dover and said, Hey, I need you to go check on him. They were in a hotel in the same building together. This person went down five doors down in the same hotel, knocked on the door, went in, he's in a puddle of tears and just life collapsing around. Well, I'm in Kuwait.

Yeah. So thank God we had social media because I would have been over there in a meeting in the middle of the day, just, you know, minding my own business and there was something really bad would have happened on the other side of the planet and I wouldn't be able to do anything about it. So, you know, I think we, we leveraged the tools that we're given, right?

But had I not had a previous [00:26:00] relationship with all of those young people, none of that conversation would have ever happened. There were never been the trust of, Hey, I've got a friend in trouble. Never been the trust. Hey, chief, I think you can help us out. Never been the trust that I could reach out to the friend and say, Hey, can you go down the hall and check on John?

But you're even aware of who his best friend is, which is, says a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But now you're coming, you know, you're closing out this chapter. Yeah. What is the next step for you? I mean, I don't think people, once you're in this leadership and doing this kind of work, you just like. Turn it off.

Yeah. You can't. I know. So what's like the next thing? So I will tell you this. I, you know, Beck and I are involved with a lot of things. We do a lot of stuff in the community. I've been involved with many organizations, been on boards of directors and all kinds of stuff. So I'm never going to want for things to do, you know, we have investment properties that we're dealing with and I've got some projects I want to do at the house and I've got these two young boys that, you know, I want to do things with them.

I have coached soccer, I, you know, [00:27:00] there's stuff to do. Um, the most important thing I need to do is figure out who skip forward is because I've been chief for six, 20, 13. Yeah. So new, new era of self discovery. Yes. Yes. Um, there are things that I've got to go figure out cause you know, I'm the guy on the edge of the stage talking to crowds of people and guess what's not going to be there.

The crowds of people. What do you do now? What does a standup comedian do when they retire? Yeah. It's, it's your identity, right? Yeah. I mean, what is, what is a, what does a preacher do when he retires? He's What does the school teacher do when she retires? Right. If they really, really loved what they did, Oh my gosh, here's a problem, right?

So, you know, there are people clamoring, You should come work for me, Skip. You'd be great in this job. You'd be great at that. You know, you'd be a great this. You'd be an awesome that. Of course I would. And I'm not [00:28:00] saying that in an arrogant way, you know, I, I, there's not a lot that I can't do or figure out or at least find a team to help me conquer those things if I wanted to start a new career in, in, uh, selling, you know, medical supplies to chiropractors, I could probably do that, but is it what I want to do?

Is it my passion? No, it's not. So, you know, I'm going to go figure out some passion. Stuff for me. Um, I want to get back in the kitchen and start cooking again. I want to, you know, do a lot of stuff. I want to read more. I want to binge watch. I don't watch TV. I haven't watched TV in years. Do you have something on your list?

You're going to start watching. There's a ton of things. The only thing I watch on TV is Formula One racing and that's it. That's the only thing I watch. I don't even watch the news on TV. My kids are constantly got stuff going on, but I'm, I'm busy doing things. So I don't have time. So, I mean, you know, people talk about, man, you ever watched game of thrones?

No, I don't even know what it is. You know, I don't know any of that stuff. And you're going to discover so many shows [00:29:00] later on, but what's nice. You can binge them. Cause they're all done. I can binge. There's no way. Problem is, is that, you know, here's my question. Um, as I'm in the latter half of my life. Do I want to spend the latter half of my life on my butt watching TV or do I want to spend the latter half of my life supporting the dreams of other people that mean a lot to me?

Mm hmm. I mean, continue to travel. I mean, we travel, we try, you know, one of our family traditions is when we don't do Christmas presents, we do plane tickets. Okay. So we've been, you know, our boys have, you Got there on their second round of passports. And we've been to foreign countries and done really cool stuff.

And we want to continue that path. So, you know, every year we plan a Christmas trip. Do you guys know where you're going this year? Uh, it looks like Copenhagen. Oh, cool. So we did, we did, um, last year was Normandy and Paris and Belgium and we did [00:30:00] Germany and, you know, Spain was a couple of years before that.

And what's your top two places you've been?

City or country? You can do either or. Top two places. You can do one city and one country. Oh. By the way, if you don't know too, we love traveling too. Yes, I really, really love southern Spain. Oh, do you? That's on our short list. Yes. My favorite town

is probably Ronda, Spain. I've heard wonderful things. Rhonda is very, it's got a, it's got everything. For a small town, it's got everything. Yeah. The history. It has a lot of the old, like ancient stuff there, right? So Romans, Moors, the Gauls, the Spaniards. All the stuff. It's all there. All of it. And depends on where you dig is where you find it.

If you go down in the valley, that's where you find the Roman stuff [00:31:00] and you work your way through. But Southern Spain is beautiful. France was gorgeous. Normandy was life changing. Iceland, oh, Iceland's amazing. I love Canada. I want to do India. I definitely want to do New Zealand. We want to, you know, there's just so many places on this planet we want to go.

You know, my wife's doing the bucket list, uh, South America trip, but we'll be going back down there at some point, but she's just mapping it out for you guys now. She is. She said, she goes, I, you know, I really want to do this trip, but I don't, you know, I know you like one foot long ago too. I said, babe, this trip is on my bucket list is probably down in the twenties or thirties.

This is like the top five for you go. Yeah. Well, it's good that you have that. Like she's able to just go do that. Oh, I, you know, Northern Europe is going to be fun because my kids want to go there and see it. You know, I, I, I've been to the most beautiful places on this planet and I've been to the most abject, impoverished [00:32:00] places on this planet.

Um, so nothing surprises me. I look forward to it. But where I, Really geek out is when we're at a place and I look in their face and look at their eyes. And the, the, the thing that strikes me right now is my two sons standing in Versailles, looking up at the frescoes on the paintings on the ceiling. And my older one explained to my younger one, what was in the painting.

Oh, wow. We actually have a photo of that. Becca has it on her phone. And it was the most. rewarding piece to stand there and watch these two boys who were historians of their own right explaining to each other the context of these paintings that were in this beautiful building and just seeing the wonder in their eyes of, you know, and to hear them now, you know, they'll see something in a movie.

Nick goes, Oh yeah, that was, they, they, they filmed that in Versailles and such and such. And the adults are looking, I'm like, Oh yeah, I've been there. Do they have like, [00:33:00] do they have bucket lists started since both you and your wife have it? And we, we include them also when we, when we do trips, we, they plan part of the trips.

Oh, that's so very nice. You're giving them so many life skills. Sure. That's amazing. We tell them, Hey, you know, what do you want to see when we go there? I want to check to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to. Why do we do that? Because it's their trip too. Right. You know? Yeah. If we just drag them around everything we want to see, that's great, but I'm 57 years old almost.

The things I want to see are way different than an 11 year old. Yeah. Mhmm. So, so that's why we include them. Well, when you going back to like now you're retiring, you're doing self discovery, what are some of the actions you're going to take to sort of further and create that self discovery for other people who might be in a similar situation?

Because I think a lot of people, like you said, what happens when you stop a career you love? I think a lot of people struggle with it. Well, they absolutely do. Um, you know, I worked with an organization called team red, white, and blue, which is a veteran service organization, worked for them for years. [00:34:00] You know, the same things that veterans deal with, non veterans deal with.

When you retire from your job as a, you know, whatever you do, a quarry dump truck driver, you're done. You served. So now all of a sudden you're not doing it anymore. So you're going to deal with that. What veterans deal with sense of connection, sense of purpose. Well, you know, what's my point in my, do I have any value anymore?

You know, all these things start creeping in. Right. So I think connecting people to what their value is or their value stream is, and keeping them connected to some sort of togetherness or grouping. I think what I'm going to, what I probably am going to. is that these, these people, I'm going to get into a space where I can help them through this transition of, you know, where do you find value now?

What do you do now? Because I love [00:35:00] connecting people with volunteerism. Um, I've worked with a lot of organizations that were all volunteer and you know, the, it's the same 10 people doing everything in Kent County. It's just, it's the same 10 people. You go to any event, it's the same 10 people. We need to grow that group because those people are burned out.

They're givers and they keep giving and the takers keep taking from them. And there are folks out there that can give, and they just don't know that what they have as a value. Right. So some of it is going to be connecting those dots for people. Um, some of it is rekindling friendships with folks I haven't talked to in years, which is helpful because I'm going to need that, right?

Um, I've got to find a new, a new group to go with, and then I'm going to have to go discover people that, young people that want to learn and do and grow. Not that I'm some prophet or whatever, but I think that they need it. You have knowledge you want to pass on. [00:36:00] Maybe it's just experience or just maybe it's, you know, knowledge is great, but if you don't know how to use it, what's the point?

I mean, there's books all over the shelf over there full of knowledge, but if I haven't read it and don't know how to apply it, what good is it? Yeah. And sometimes it's having the ability to go find the knowledge cause you know, these little cell phones, it's the Oracle, Oracle of Delphi. I can find anything I want, you know, I could ask you right now to look up, you know, the average weight of a suckling pig in Iowa and you'll pop right up on your phone.

Mm hmm. Okay, now that you know that, what are you gonna do with it? Right. That's how to apply it. It's the application of the knowledge that people struggle with. Yeah. We talk about that a lot, actually, that we see, um, in a lot of different fields that people are so, they just have access to everything and they are really smart, but they don't know how to apply things.

They don't know how to do the action steps to actually achieve what they're learning. Yes. They're going to. They're book smarts. They can memorize, they can read, they understand the concept, but then now when you have to apply it physically, they, that's the hard part. That's where you find. And here's a [00:37:00] question back to you.

What do you, when you see them finally break through that barrier, notice their faces and their demeanor, I think about a company and I'm just going to pick one out of the, uh, like board and brush. It's a, it's a little company that you go in and they've got the basics and you go in and you do some artistic thing with your friends.

The sense of accomplishment of those folks and they walk out of there with this thing that you just made. They're not makers. If they're not creators of things, they're not artists. They are blown away. That feeling that dopamine just floods their body. I'm like, I've not had this feeling in years. I'm going to go do it again.

What a great business model. What if you could do that all the time? And what if you could do that in a volunteer setting where You can scratch that itch that they're not getting at their nine to five or their two to seven or whatever shift they're working. They don't have a way to express value. And now you can connect them to something that will [00:38:00] help them express value.

Now you're filling a niche that they can't fill themselves. You're filling their ewer and they can go and do things creatively and help out and something's getting done with it. Yeah. Something's getting accomplished. Well, there's so much with that also is you're growing, I mean, people's self esteem goes up when they can apply the activities they have, um, and the knowledge they have.

And then, um, just that, that sense of purpose, oh, my actions matter. Cause I think that a lot of people like with the knowledge that aren't applying it, they don't have that sense of purpose. And I think that's a big issue with a lot of, um, Younger people today is purpose. So going back to that thing I was talking about a minute ago with the veterans, the two things that we always look for with veterans are giving them task and purpose.

Because if you think about from a military perspective at 18 years old, they were told this is your task and this is your purpose and their whole organizational structure, their, their whole being is wrapped around task and purpose. And then they're 26 and they get out of the army or they get out of the Marines or wherever they [00:39:00] were at.

And they plop out into this world out here. With a bunch of people that don't understand task and purpose. There are no systems in place and there's nobody telling them that they have to fold their sheets and there's nobody telling them that they got to wear a uniform and they just spin off into oblivion.

They don't know how to handle it. Why? Because they've never been taught as adults how to deal in that world. So the antithesis of that are folks that are out in that world that don't know what task and purpose mean. Right. Mm hmm. They're told they have to work because they got to feed their kids, but they don't understand that that's task and purpose, but it might not be their purpose.

So now let's find their purpose and give them a task that would support their purpose. So then it's that self discovery of what is your purpose in life? I'm a mom. I'm a dad. I'm a brother. I'm a what? That's pretty big stuff. I know that you've also, like you said, you've been here for about 38 years in Dover itself.

How have you seen it [00:40:00] change? And it sounds like you're very community driven. You want to give back, you want to help the community, you want people around you. What, what's the game plan afterwards to, you know, what have you seen it change? What does Dover need more of? And how do you see yourself kind of falling into place there?

So, um, Dover's changed a lot since I've gotten here. You know, it was extremely rural and extremely. Homegrown you were from Delaware or you weren't right. Um, the base was interesting because you get people from all over the planet flooding in, but that locus of control or that locus of influence kind of ended at Smyrna and Milford.

It didn't really go much past that. And, you know, the folks that come here at the military get involved, but not super involved. So really it was, it was, it was the Delawareans that ran this state and the Delawareans that, that made policy and the Delawareans did what we did, right? [00:41:00] This farm that we're sitting on here is a Delaware farm run by Delaware people with Delaware ideals.

And you know, it's not a big deal, but what has happened is this is the only place on the entire Eastern seaboard from Georgia to Maine that isn't built up yet. Guess where they're all coming now. And then they are people from outside of our state that realize that the great, great cost of living, it's still fairly cheap to build here and live here.

We're still fairly close to 95 and a quarter in the airports and all that stuff. And Oh, by the way, I just want to get some quiet. I'm tired of living in exit seven, New Jersey. I'm going to sell my little salt box up there and take all the money that that market provides. And we're going to come down here and we're going to buy a nice house with a half acre or three quarters of an acre.

And I don't hear cars beeping and I don't hear trains going by and it's quiet and it's beautiful and serene and that's great. But comes with them. Their other ideals, all their ideals, all their [00:42:00] ideas, all the things that worked in their state, all the things that don't work in their state. And they're laying that tapestry onto this very rural, very, um, This family of Delawareans and Eastern Shore Marylanders that, that just didn't want it to creep.

I mean, I, I think that everybody on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, Delaware would love to just go take torches and cut the bridges and just let us be an island and we'll be perfectly happy. Um, So we're having to deal with that. And I think you see it in the economy. You see it in how businesses run. Now you see it in, in, in the politics of the state, you know, I'm apolitical because I'm in the military, September 5th, I won't be apolitical, um, but I'm not one side or the other.

I'm very, I'm very centrist in a lot of ideas. And, you know, there are, there are, there are pieces and parts of both of the political spheres that I agree with. And there are pieces of parts that I absolutely can't stand. [00:43:00] of it because I'm a centrist, right? Um, but I think that we've got to be careful, um, that we don't pull the state in one direction or the other too hard because this place is just, it is still just a lump of Play Doh that can be molded and we can still Control that.

I mean, we see the growth that's happened in this Southern quarter here in Camden, Wyoming, and what's creeping this way towards this beautiful farmer sitting at, you know, you're only a couple of blocks away from a big development and the traffic and the woes and the, this, you know, all that stuff. And, and, you know, all the Delawareans are saying, we don't want this, just leave us alone.

Unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way. Right. So now we have to have good discourse. We have to have conversation. We have to have the folks that are becoming Delawareans talk to the folks that are Delawareans and, and talk [00:44:00] about what's, what attracted you to this state? Well, it's the fact that it's quiet and it's peaceful.

It's okay. That's exactly why we love living here. It's quiet and it's peaceful, but you're bringing the noise and the mayhem to our quiet peaceful. So we need to work this out. We need to mitigate it. We're not going to stop the wave. But maybe we can control how it affects us. I just would hate to see Kent County turned into Southern Newcastle County, where it's just, you know, every farm is flipped into 5, 000 houses.

It's just, it's, I mean, it, it serves a purpose, but there's no community there. Yeah. Well, it's also, and my big thing is infrastructure, infrastructure. So like when we drive to work, it's we're seven miles from our work and it's all back roads to get there. But like, that's, those farms are. I never thought would are turning into housing developments, but like those roads, they're not made for high traffic that we don't just, we just don't have the setup for it.

Um, and that's, you know, that's my big thing is how do we [00:45:00] also support. people, local Delawareans and creating businesses for these people too, because we're so much giving so much to, as local businesses, there's so much to help large businesses as a small business, I don't think Delaware cares the way they should yet.

Right. Delaware doesn't care, but Delawareans do. Delawareans do, but we, but I want to see more support from our local governments and getting, you know, Creating that the infrastructure that does come up the businesses because we don't have enough restaurants in Kent County that are local that can serve the number of houses coming in.

And like, how do we create that? I'll tell you one of the things that, you know, I've talked to legislators locally because, you know, people like Linden Yuric. I don't know if you know Linden, um, if you've ever dealt with him. Uh, the Linden Yurics, the Mike Moraskos, the, you know, the, the, the folks that own and operate Businesses and help us understand how, how government [00:46:00] and business can work together.

Help. I bring Linden's name up because Linden, Linden is a Republican, but Linden does do phenomenal work with getting everybody that's affected by a problem in the room. He does a lot of open houses, a lot of town hall meetings. He's accessible. He is accessible and he listens and he does bring. disparate voices in the room, which is huge.

Um, but I, the thing that I hearken for him is that he wants all of us to know what's going on so that we can help either strengthen and edify the position or we can put opposition to the thing that you're talking about. So, you know, But I think the workshops that what we need to do is not have the Dell dot workshop that they have about the, you know, increasing the size of route 13.

And you look in the picture and everybody in that room is over 55 years old or 60 years old. And they're only there because they've got the bandwidth to be there [00:47:00] because the. The people your age are busy working. That's one of our biggest things because we're, our business is downtown Dover and like the meetings I have will be 9, 10 a.

m. And you're like, Tuesday at one 30. And you're like, who's going to be here and make it accessible. If you want our voices heard, you know, include us in the room because the room I see, it's the same thing. I see guys are trying to attract, you guys literally saying your mission is to attract younger working professionals, but There's no working professionals in the building, so it's interesting.

I think one of, you know, I was in the inaugural class of leadership central Delaware. I just finished that. Yes. And you were in there with Adam Colprete. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like him a lot. Adam is a great guy. Yeah, really, really great guy. Yeah. He's also funny. Does he not look like he's funny? No. Well, sometimes, you know, humor is, I think it's, you don't always see that in people.

But humor is a sign of intelligence. But like somebody who's also like doing leadership stuff and then they're like also a little silly. I think that's always like endearing. Yes. So LCD is a great, [00:48:00] um, vehicle to get young leaders to talk. Now, what I submit is that when we do LCD, That we make and redouble our efforts to engage the class of 2024, 23, 22, 21.

To get those leaders to come together in coalition and have these discussions about it's been around a while. Um, but it's, it's what I think is there's not enough that those conversations, there's like pieces of the conversation, but I think we actually, cause for me, conversation should be like nitty and gritty.

Like, let's get into it. Let's actually hear both Um, and be able to talk out cause that's when resolutions happen, right? That's when people can start to be like, Oh, I, I'm more passionate. I'm leading in this when they can have their voices heard, but also hear other sides of it. And so I think we should have deeper conversations with that groups.

I totally agree with you. One of the challenges that we face now is [00:49:00] that we have, we collectively as, as a society have lost the ability to have discourse without having, you know,

I've got a different term and I won't use it here, but, um, we are so quick to listen to the thing that we want to disagree with that we don't hear the things that we do agree with. And I think people are so quick to also get offended if you don't agree with them. Like, it doesn't mean I think you're a bad person if I don't agree with you.

I just don't agree with this one thing. Exactly. And it's so crazy. Yeah. And I think it's a lost art. Um, you know, I, I, I really, I really wish we could go back and teach the classics in school. Yeah. Uh, debate was one of the best classes I ever took in school. Why? Because I learned to listen. Because in debate, it teaches you to listen critically so you can arm yourself with the next thing you're going to go with.

And it's not [00:50:00] an adversarial thing, but it is a listening for function. Versus I'm just the loudest voice in the room. I'm going to capture all the attention in my orange shirt with my pink hat and my blue shoes. Cause you're going to look at me because I'm wearing this crazy stuff. So obviously if everybody's looking at me, I've got everybody's attention.

Now I can say something outlandish. Right. Yeah. Well, I also think like part of teaching discussions and why I think I'll see a good group to work on this with is you can, you can talk about the art of a conversation and how you can both disagree and find common ground. But also that. You can have that sense of connection through that conversation and getting a resolution.

So I think a lot of people in today's world want to say like something, like you said, outlandish and this big conversation, but it's really about them in that moment, instead of solving the problem or getting to some common ground really should be [00:51:00] the, the art of it is, is finding and weaving your way through the mess to the end point.

And so I think that's also part of it is I want to see. I want to see conversations that come out and have something, a result at the end of them versus just, I have something to say and I want people to hear it. Well, okay. Well, what's the resolution to it? Unfortunately, I think everybody now, I shouldn't say, I hate using these terms, like the absolutes kill me.

But you know, We've, we've found a way to agree to disagree and make the, and that's it. That's just the end of it. We agree to disagree. It's like, okay, you just quit. You just quit on the whole thing. Stop quitting. Yeah. You know, well, I'm quitting. Cause I'm going to move on to the next thing that really is important to me.

Well, this should be important to you. And if it wasn't, why were you in the conversation? Right. So yeah, it's lifelong challenge. Uh, they're Aristotle and Plato. Dealt with this for decades. Yeah. And they never figured it quite out. You know, what [00:52:00] was I, maybe the podcast I was listening to, we just talked about this the other day about how like, Learning about things.

You just go look at history. Like we've never not gone through things before. Like nothing's new. Like even the pandemic, the stuff like the mask and not mask and all that kind of stuff happened in 1918 and the flu pandemic. Like we've saw all the political stuff we're going through also happened in history.

So there's nothing new. So we could really learn a lot crazy. The rise of the Roman empire is a great book. If you've ever, never written or read it, it's It's well written, um, to understand that you could be the most powerful thing on the planet and, and what took it down wasn't an outside influence. It was an inside influence.

I'll have to check that book out. I do love reading about anything with like history. It's scary. The parallels, because you, you can see it just happening all around you. It's nefarious and it's slow, it's creeping, the creeping death, you That's how it goes. You don't see it coming. It's true. And I don't remember who [00:53:00] said this, but they, They said history doesn't necessarily repeat itself, but history rhymes, as in we see the same trends over and over again.

It may not be a giant, you know, like the Roman Empire, like this great, big power that gets, you know. The best songs in the world, each verse is different. But the chorus comes back around and there's the hook and the way we go. And that's, it's the song. Same thing, right? Maybe say the same, different words, different geographical location, but same trends always, again, it always rhymes.

Sure. And, and, you know, kind of circling back to the traveling. One of the reasons why we travel and we take our kids to travel is to show them that this isn't the world. That's, I think that's one of the most important things you can do. And. I've heard them say, yeah, this stinks, but it's not as bad as the dot, dot, dot, that we saw.

Dot, dot, dot. What gives such perspective? Sure. [00:54:00] And it's, it's awesome to hear, but it's also a little melancholy because part of me says maybe we stripped away some of the innocence. Hmm. Because they've seen things that are bad. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, it's not always the thing with parenting is like, where do you, could you protect them to the point where then they go in the world?

They're like, Oh my God, this is the world. Or do they go out and see the world and then maybe be exposed to young for things. But I mean, overall, as a kid, when I got to travel, I mean, that I think has been one of the biggest blessings is that wanting to see the world. And the more you're exposed to different cultures.

The more you're accepting and you can see more points of view and you can understand that this pocket here is, there's a lot of wonderful things to it, but it's not the world. And I think that's such a blessing. Cause I, you know, people I know that never left you and family members, [00:55:00] you know, your world is smaller and you do miss out on certain viewpoints and experiences that I think we are becoming global citizens.

And it's so important to be able to see the world past just. Your backyard. Absolutely. Um, one of the last trips I took with a large group. It took them to Spain and, um, They're like, you know, chief, you've been here a lot. You know, we need to know where our favorite, where your favorite restaurants are. I said, okay, I'm going to, we're going to do five restaurants.

And we're going to go. And so we get the big group together and we go to this first restaurant. And they're like, Oh, this food is amazing. This is the best I've ever had. Blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, this, thank you for bringing us to this place. It's phenomenal. I'm like, yeah, this is a pretty good restaurant.

Wait till tomorrow night. Well, that one's better. You're like, what? Of course the next night. So I started them off at the, at the nadir and took them to the ACME. Yeah. And, uh, the, [00:56:00] The last one was this, uh, phenomenal steakhouse that had, you know, just all of it, everything that all the pescatarian and the, and the beef and the, and the wines and the sauces and the, you know, the olives and the, you know, the garlic and all of this just, right.

And they finished that meal and they're like, I said, you thought the first meal was good, didn't you? And they're like, I can't move. Dessert's coming, you know? Yeah. So yeah, it's it, but none of them would have ever experienced any of that if we hadn't. Um, and we're going to this little restaurant six miles from here that you don't even know about.

It's not on a map. You know, when we go to, um, we go to Spain, we're going to be calling you. Yes. Yeah. What you need to do is come over. Seriously. Come over the house and we'll sit down and I will plan it out. Draw out on a map for you. Oh my God. I will. I'm taking you up on this. I am very serious about this.

When we travel, we love kind of just plugging into like locals. [00:57:00] We're just discovering these little restaurants and you're like, Oh my gosh, no agenda. We're just walking down the streets and just figuring out. I can give you a week in Southern Spain that you will, it will change your world. All right. Well, we are, we're holding you to that.

So it's probably, but not maybe next year or the year after the next two years, we're going to Italy this year. So we're going to, we're going to, we're going to go to Italy and COVID killed us and we wound up having to go to, uh, we did Arizona and Utah that. That trip that time versus Italy. 'cause we couldn't get outta the country.

Mm-Hmm. actually that the year of Covid too. We were supposed to go to Shanghai that, yeah. Yeah. 'cause my family has a place out there and Nice. And we were gonna go and spend 10 days my visa, I have a 10 year visa to China and take it away. It tie, we got fuck out five more years left. Got to go. You gotta go.

Yeah. Wait. Well, we're trying. I mean, we, we would go anywhere. Like, I don't think there's, that's when, when we travel, we're just like, oh, where's the best flights to right now? . Yeah. And we try and stay as far away from the touristy stuff as we possibly can. Yeah. Yeah. You absolutely have. Yeah. And we try to learn the language a little bit.

So we're right now we're learning Italian. A little bit of Italian. Yeah. When we went to Portugal, we learned a little bit [00:58:00] of Portuguese. I think, I think it's time to be better that I think we're going to speak it when we get there. Yes. Similar to Spanish. We went to Mexico city, spoke a little Spanish.

Just make sure, you know, we're amazing when you try how much they will work with you. Yes. Oh my God. They're so, he picks up a language is faster. I think his brain's like wire chat and we're in Uber's and he's just chatting in the Uber driver's like, Oh my God, somebody speaks my language and I'm so excited.

It's not like I'm speaking perfect. You know. No, they worked with you though the whole time though. Broken, you know, wrong words. I'm sure I'm using, you're trying. Yeah. I, you know, it's funny, I've taken Americans o overseas and you know, they get frustrated and they start getting louder. , I want a Coca-Cola.

It's like, look, they're not stupid. Right. I said, I, where are you from? I'm from Maryland. Okay, got it. If a German person walked into your business and started speaking to you in German. And you didn't understand them and they got mad. What would you throw them out? I was like, that's exactly what she's feeling like right now.

She just wants to throw you out [00:59:00] because you are in her country trying to speak your language. Don't work that way. We, we don't mind. I always say like, if I don't know it, like, I don't mind whatever I get, I get to eat and I have no problem being like, The funny thing is these little boxes, these, Yeah, they have all, you're good at that.

Doing a good job. Right. It, you lay it on the table, you know? But it's, it's just like being aware and like, whatever, whatever is the culture there. That's what we're participating in. If they do siesta, we're doing siesta. If I'm an early riser, I will learn to sleep in, you know, it's just, you just have to work.

I mean, that's part of the fun of going to these other countries is how do they live? Let's do that for this week or two that we're there. Call to worship happens at 5am before sunrise. You yeah. We're doing it. We're there. We're there. Absolutely. They're celebrating something. We are too. Yep. We're not allowed to drink cappuccinos after, in the afternoon.

We're not drinking cappuccinos. It'll be fine. It'll be good. All the culture. All right. So we are rounding things up. Yes. Do you have any last questions? You had one burning thing you really wanted to ask. What was the question? Aliens. Oh yeah. You had mentioned maybe, I don't know if you can share about aliens or your [01:00:00] experience maybe in the air force.

Oh my goodness. I don't know. We gotta end on a fun note with aliens. Oh that's too funny. Um. So that was a joke in an email about talk about anything. I think what I'll say is this, um, and it really ties to travel. We're all aliens because we go into other people's worlds all the time. And we don't really know them.

They look familiar. They look kind of the same, but we don't know them. Um, and, you know, the one thing that if an alien ever does show, and they're probably already here and we just don't know it, or they're a creature that we wouldn't recognize as an alien. Um, I hope that we are as easy on them as we should be.

I hope that we treat them better than we treat each other. Um, you know, I hope to God the alien doesn't [01:01:00] show up and goes, Wow, these people just don't care. Work together. How on earth are they making it on this planet right now? Mm-Hmm. , there's no intelligent life down here. Beam me up. That kind of thing.

Um, but I think in travel we, we, we become aliens and we kind of feel, you know, different, disconnected, kind of the same, but not the same. How do you bridge the gap? You know, I remember that movie, if you've never seen it, uh, uh, close Encounters to the third kind. Hmm. The bridge. music. They used music to first communicate with the aliens.

It wasn't a sign, it wasn't a poster, it wasn't, you know, shoot a gun at them. It was something beautiful. And I think if, when we go to places, and you guys know this from travel, the things that attract you to things are things of beauty. Beautiful people, beautiful buildings, beautiful scenery, you know, whatever that is, beautiful artwork.

[01:02:00] I think if we tie ourselves back to those things that are beautiful and find the beauty in each other, you know, what is, what is great about this person? Let me spend five minutes without pretense, without, you know, my, my first bias shutting me down. They put my bias away for a minute. They put my privilege away for a minute and learn this human and find out what's beautiful about them.

Then they're not alien anymore. So that's my alien piece, I guess it's, you know, we are all aliens to each other. You want to confirmation the real, that's a wonderful, um, thank you so much for sharing and coming on. And I think, you know, your wealth of information, um, and then is there a way, like, would you like people to follow your social media?

You want to share that, that people can get in contact with you who might want to work with you? Sure. So, uh, you know, um, I'm on Facebook. I'm on Facebook. Cool. Skip forward. Um, you'll see me running with an American flag and a team red, white and blue T-shirt on. Um, uh, skip forward4@gmail.com is my email [01:03:00] address.

Um, and after September 4th, I'll have some free time on my hands, to reach out right to, to do things. But, you know, I always enjoy conversation and you know, folks can find me if, if. Please, God, don't Google me. Cause you're going to just go like, Oh, here's this guy, right? My boys Google me and they're like, dad, you're on Google again.

It's, you know, some story or something with the base. The base is absolutely a big part of my life. It always has been. It's been a privilege to serve you guys. Everything I have is because of you. Um, I came in the air force with nothing, not a, hardly a dime in my pocket. No education, no house, no family, no anything.

Everything I have that is a value came from or was brought on into reality by the citizens of this country that support my career. So I thank all of you. Thank you for your service. No, thank you for letting me serve. Thank you for allowing me to do this job because everything I [01:04:00] have is because of you.

Um, so yeah, I'm going to keep serving in one way or another. I'll be out there. Well, thank you so much. We, uh, we're excited to see what you do for Delaware. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the three Oh two podcast. I am your host, Dr. Frank Chi with my lovely wife and cohost, Dr. Megan Epps.

We are your local nervous system based chiropractors who have a passion for contributing to our community and giving back as we have been so lucky to be blessed living here in Delaware. We've created this as a way to support our community through showcasing local small businesses and people who are making a difference in Delaware.

The best way for you to support those who have been featured and our local Delaware podcast is to follow, share, and like us over at Instagram. Our handle is at the 302 podcast. If you would like to be a guest or sponsor, please visit our website at the302podcast. com. If you are interested in chiropractic care or reaching [01:05:00] out to myself or Dr.

Epps, visit our website at DoverHealthCareCenter. com and send us a message. We look forward to sharing more with you through this year and beyond.