HOA Insights: Common Sense for Common Areas

124 | Timeshares are Associations Too!

• Hosts: Robert Nordlund, Kevin Davis, Julie Adamen • Season 3 • Episode 124

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Did you know timeshare boards operate like HOAs? We explore why it’s important to know what’s going on at your timeshare!

✅ Is a Reserve Study right for you? 👉 https://www.reservestudy.com/

Learn More about Jason’s Company: https://www.arda.org/

This week we welcome Jason Gamel, CEO of ARDA, to explore how timeshares function as associations. Robert and Jason discuss board responsibilities, budgeting, maintenance, and the hospitality layer that makes timeshares unique. See how major brands like Marriott and Hilton and even small self-managed resorts have boards ensure owner satisfaction, safety, and long-term success! 


Chapters from Today's Episode:

00:00 Why are timeshares considered associations too?

00:43 Who is Jason Gamel and what is ARDA?

04:01 How do timeshare boards manage seasonal owners?

07:10 What role do major hospitality brands play in timeshare resorts?

11:17 How is governance different between fixed weeks and points systems?

15:18 What challenges come with fractional ownership boards?

18:55 How do hospitality and owner expectations add pressure?

22:35 Ad Break - FiPhO Score 

23:39 Why do managers act as coaches to timeshare boards?

26:32 How does board diversity improve resort decisions?

31:23 How did the Champlain Towers collapse affect timeshare governance?

36:39 What legislative differences exist between HOAs and timeshares?

38:26 Final thoughts on timeshares as “cousins” of HOAs

The views & opinions expressed in this program are those of the Hosts & Guests, intended to provide general education about the community association industry. The content is not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual or organization.  Please seek advice from licensed professionals.

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Jason Gamel:

If there's one thing that will get in the way of a successful resort is whether or not you're putting in the proper resources. I mean, I think you have to be smart with your budgeting. You gotta be good about cutting out waste. If you take those things to start with, then you've gotta really be able to spend the money to make this resort attractive. So that way, people do wanna be owners, unlike, say, somebody who owns a whole unit, they're not likely to think to themselves when people just walk away from my unit because this has become too expensive.

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Robert Nordlund:

Welcome back to HOA Insights, Common Sense for Common Areas. I'm Robert Nordlund, and I'm here today for episode 124 with a special guest who leads Arda, the trade association for the timeshare and vacation ownership industries. Jason Gamel is the CEO of ARDA, and has over 25 years in various leadership roles in the hospitality and the timeshare industries. He has a background as an attorney. That's what got him into this crazy industry, and is currently responsible for all legislative, regulatory, public relations and communication strategies for the organization. So many things he has his fingers into, and we have them here today with us, because fundamentally, timeshares are residential in nature, and they are run by board members. So I thought it would be great for our audience to learn what being a board member looks like from a resort point of view, and what taking care of the property looks like when your owners are there only one week a year, and they expect a great experience. Well, last week's episode 123 was another conversation with regular co host Julie adamen on management and people and culture and community associations. There's always something interesting going on. So if you missed that episode or any other prior episode, take a moment after today's program to listen from our podcast, website, Hoa insights.org or watch on our YouTube channel, but better yet, subscribe from any of the major podcast platforms so you don't miss any future episodes. And those of you watching on YouTube can see the HOA insights mug that I have here. It features a deteriorated Association and some board members talking about their due structure. And I got that mug from our merch store, which you can browse through from our Hoa insights.org website or the link in our show notes, and you'll find we have some great free stuff there, like board member zoom backgrounds and some specialty items for sale, like the mug. So take a moment look around, find the mug you'd like and email me at podcast at reserves, a.com with your name, shipping address and mug choice, mentioning episode 124, mug giveaway, and if you're the 10th person to email me, I'll ship that mug to you free of charge. Well, we enjoy hearing from you responding to the issues you're facing at your association. So if you have a hot topic, a crazy story, or a question you'd like us to address, you can contact us at 805-203-3130, or email us at podcast at reserve, study.com Well, this episode was prompted by Sherry from Naples, Florida, who asked, we have two sets of owners here, the year Rounders and the seasonal snowbirds. The year Rounders are pretty comfortable with the way things are, but the snowbirds seem like they always want change any suggestions. So after getting this email, we felt it'd be great to have someone like Jason on the program whose entire ownership base is made up of short term visitors to their property. So Jason, welcome to the program. And how would you respond to Sherry, who's trying to make a cohesive group of owners at a property where the people on site are fundamentally in a seasonal or weekly state of change.

Jason Gamel:

Well, Robert, first of all, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I think that problem is one or the issue she brings up. It's like you said, when you're in a situation where nobody is there as their homestead property, and everyone treats the property as their vacation home, which really is their their their home away from home, right? They have a lot of interest in how they govern, but their interest sometimes is fleeting, because, like you said, they're there once a year. They're reminded of their ownership, usually when it's time to make of reservation for a vacation or when they receive a maintenance fee payment. So when that maintenance fee payment comes is when they start thinking about, all right, what am I paying for? And oftentimes, yeah, like they look at this and say, Okay, this is great. You know that the property has phenomenal maintenance and upkeep, assuming it does. Many of our timeshares have professional management, but you have it. When you look at the number of resorts that are there in the United States, you're just slightly under 50. 1500 resorts. So if you look at that and they're of all sizes, right, you have them down from 25 units perhaps, to resorts that are over 3000 units in size, which make them cities onto themselves. And that requires different sets of skills, sometimes professional management, sometimes not. But it also requires attitude, a mental approach to the game, for someone who's managing, say, a small resort that's being self managed, versus those that have large hospitality companies who are professionals at management, or large management companies that do a great job as well. You're talking and how they major brands. Major brands? Yep, got it. We've got major brands in our business. You've got Marriott, Hilton, travel, leisure, Holiday Inn, Westgate, you've got a number of folks that are there, that are hospitality brands that are used to worldwide, if not necessarily, at least all over the USA, managing properties at different locations. Yeah, and they're good at doing it, yeah, that's, you know, that's the thing. They get really good. And they get good at doing it for timeshare resorts. And I think, like they talk about those as your as your as your listener, put it in that question Sherry did about, well, I've got full time residents that are here all the time. I have part timers, well, you're absolutely right. In this case, you do have part timers that are just there. But they care about this property, like it is a full time property for them, and like, it is their second home, since it is a real estate interest and it's one that they really value.

Robert Nordlund:

Let me go down that path a little bit. You get your annual fee reminder, and you say, oh, yeah, gee, last year was that last year where it rained, or last year we had sun? Oh, the weather was so good last year. Yeah. Can't wait till we go out there again and you start thinking about you getting the mindset of it is running an association where you have a major brand. So as a board member, you've got the major brand, Disney vacations, Hilton vacations, West Gate, Marriott, all those kind of things. Is that easier because you have the big brand helping, or is it a little bit awkward because they have their big hand, their big brand? Do you feel like a figurehead? Or what's it like being a board member there?

Jason Gamel:

I think it's a little bit of it's a really unique experience when you have and you'll take any of those brands that you name, and also it depends a lot on the exact type of legal structure and ownership, because many resorts, if they're condominium, we'll just, we'll stick with Florida for one second, because that's a known condo state. But if you look at a condominium regime in Florida that requires turnover after a majority of interests are sold at a project, then you're going to have situations where major hospitality brands still have to compete with, you know, and really compete for the business because their boards are turned over, the boards might very well still want the major brand to continue to be the hospitality provider, because they do a fantastic job, and oftentimes certain benefits are associated with that management contract, hanging of a flag of a particular of a particular name on a resort is contingent upon them doing the management because you don't want to have a Marriott name, for instance, on a property that's not being managed by Marriott to provide the consistent experience that's expected from that brand. And then you have, on the other hand, the undivided interest projects, Udis that look a lot like a timeshare. No one would tell the difference from the outside, but board turnover isn't required in those circumstances. So you will have a hospitality company, depending upon ownership structure, that will either have control or not control of a board, which then sets up a very different dynamic. Not that they can't they that it's a worse experience or otherwise, but that means there's competition, which, then, as a board member, you're evaluating and using, putting your fiduciary duty and your responsibilities to the test. When you look at things and say, Well, what's best for the association, what's best for the owners there? And how do I view this through a lens of a board member who has one week or two weeks, or maybe multiple weeks, or lots of days worth of ownership in this particular property? What's the best decision we're going to make for our owners? It usually comes down to again, having that hospitality company and that management company do the work, do the construction work, do things that you know, refurbishments that take place every five years, which is very common in the timeshare industry for capital improvements. But you're going to look at this a little differently. If you're a independent board of the developer, you may have one or two developer representatives still on the board, but it just creates a very different dynamic, but it's also one where you find the management companies spending a lot of time educating the board members, and board members need to be open to that, because they understand the value of their ownership and the meaningfulness of having the right manager in place to make sure that experience is a good one over and over again, because, as we found through. Our research, and we do a really neat monthly Sentiment Index, it's our vacation ownership Sentiment Index, where we survey 500 timeshare travelers versus 500 regular travelers to get their opinions on all things related to travel. But one thing we do ask is, what is your expectation of your timeshare vacation versus your regular vacation, and you find that over 75% of timeshare owners expect more from their timeshare vacation than a regular vacation. So they go into this board members are not expecting a wonderful experience because they paid for it. It's their second home. Here they go. Like you said, the weather's gonna be good. We want the weather to be good. We're gonna have this amazing experience going to the parks to the beach, and now you show up and think, I really believe that my experience should be wonderful. So the decisions that are made by the board are going to be ultra important to making sure that the ability of the developer or of the management company to make that experience meet expectations. Well, if you think to yourself, I want to go with a low cost option on things, or I'm not thinking long term on something, you could very well affect the way that the majority of your constituent base feels about their vacations.

Robert Nordlund:

My brain just spinning on so many different places, different directions we could go. Is there a fundamental difference of being a board member at a place where you have a fixed week versus a club where it's kind of a shared ownership concept? Board Member the same or different?

Jason Gamel:

I think there's differences. There's certainly differences in sizes, scope and services that are provided when you're a board member back in the 80s and 90s, you bring up a very important point. The timeshare product back then was very much a fixed week, fixed unit product. And you knew every year what week you were coming back as a board member, you were certainly looking forward to, hopefully the annual meeting took place perhaps some other time other than your week, because that was extra travel to the resort that you like to spend time to be able to visit you

Robert Nordlund:

want. But that was gonna be my follow up question. Can you go there and relax? Are you working?

Jason Gamel:

Yeah, exactly. Well, you know you're gonna be spending your time there, and owners and residents know who you are and are gonna bring their issues to you. So if you look at what's happening for those fixed week fixed unit, there's predictability for when you know you're going to be there, how you're going to use your resort, and you know, for the most part, if you're going back there every year, you're going to be a little bit more vested in that specific resort and how the expenses are spent in these larger projects. Now, you may be an owner at a resort, but you realize the inventory now is all being held, for instance, in a trust. So all this inventory is into into a trust. Governance looks a little different, because you're still going to have boards and running, and you still want to make sure that the resort that you said, the board you sit on, is good. But you also really do have a different viewpoint, because with the ability to go to all of these different resorts in a system you kind of want to make sure that your experience is going to be consistent. That's the expectation.

Robert Nordlund:

A brand level, yeah, not a property specific level of condition, but a brand level system all

Jason Gamel:

across so resorts, A, B and C that are all managed by the same brand or the same resort system, you're going to want a, b and c all to look and feel very much the same. You're going to want to understand that my interest in my resort, which might be a, is, of course, important to make sure we're keeping a a consistent experience. But my expectation is that my make a reservation resort B or resort C. I want that to look and feel the same way. I want the same type of resources to be spent. I want the same level of upkeep. I want the same level of service. I want the people there. I want the front desk folks to be as qualified, and I want them to be just as welcoming it is at resort a so you are looking at a larger picture about the way that services are going to be delivered consistently amongst all resorts, because that's the reason why you probably bought into that system to begin with. You may have been introduced to it. You love the resort itself. You like the different locations you go to, and you love the fact that every year when you make a reservation, your expectations are going to be met, your experiences are going to be consistent. And that takes resources and time.

Robert Nordlund:

You got me thinking you have a great experience, because you want a place where you can go skiing regularly once a year, and you realize, I really like this place. Let me get another week so I can go mountain biking in the summer. And you really like it. You think, oh, gee, I've seen the posters. We could use a beach vacation. Let's get another week or, yeah, maybe you're getting more weeks or going different places, and you're enjoying the same, I hope, seamless experience as a unit owner. Now we're talking about unit owners, not board members. We need to get off that subject, right? I go buy a timeshare week after this, after this conversation, I. I know a person for you, Robert, I know. I'm sure. Okay. Is there a difference between being a board member at a place that is fundamentally weak at a time versus a like a fractional that is what 1/5 of a year, or something like that? Is that a totally different experience, or is it still the same animal?

Jason Gamel:

I think at the at the base level, it's very similar. Okay, you do, however, when you start looking like anything, and I think the same thing, if you apply it to an HOA residential situation, you may be in a subdivision where the homes are a quarter of a million dollars in value, and then you might be in a subdivision where the homes are $5 million and above in value. So if you look at the different issues, they're fundamentally is still the same. You still have to worry about saving for reserves. You still have capital improvements that you need to do your FF and E costs might be different because you may have more expensive amenities in the room. Yeah, if you're looking at, for instance, the services that are often provided by in the high end fractionals, you may have a storage locker that has all of your family pictures in there that get brought out for you by your management company when you check in, making it truly feel like a second home, right? Those things you pay for, right? Those are going to be, those are going to be included in your overall fees. And when you're asking your management company about what type of things they are doing to cater to your needs. You may have a more discernible tastes that exist within your ownership base, that require you to think a bit more critically about the services that are provided because the fees are expensive. When you look at the places, though, that might be one week or smaller increments of time where people are visiting, or, better yet, they don't really get that multi week stay, because the way that timeshare nowadays is sold and used in points increments. When those weeks are turned into points, people may be there for two or three days. They could be there for 10 or 15. There's different lengths of stay. But when you look at those fractional projects that you mentioned, you do have to have a little bit of a different eye for, I'm gonna say quality, and perhaps the type of experience that the fellow owners are looking for, and what they're going to expect is an upkeep and maintenance when you're paying 1000s and 1000s in maintenance fee, versus maybe hundreds in maintenance fees. And so I think that just like anything, the fundamental issues are still the same. How do I maintain How do I have a good experience at check in? How do I have a good experience in making sure the amenities are well taken care of? And that's also something you see differently too, because really the upkeep and maintenance of the amenities that might be with a fractional project, a ski in Skia, for instance, a lot of them in great places like Aspen or Breckenridge steamboat, you're going to have yourself a different level of expertise needed to make sure everything is taken care of and are provided by people who really have higher level expectations. So that's another thing that each board member is going to have to really understand. Or what are the expectations of the fellow owners and the people, what do they expect every time they're in residence?

Robert Nordlund:

When I think of board members for residential properties, I think it's pets, it's parking, it's fines, it's the maintenance, it's the budget, of course, the rules, those kinds of things, what you've been talking about adds a layer of hospitality. So the average residential board member is not an expert in rules, they're not an expert in budgeting, they're not an expert in capital improvements. Can a timeshare, a resort board, board member just as well be a decision maker, not an expert, but a decision maker when it comes to the hospitality type of questions, what level of staffing, what level of support? Is that just one more thing that they they become a prudent representative of the other owners?

Jason Gamel:

Yeah, I think where you look at the way that boards are made, let's see what a five or seven person board, it's very much like putting together an effective basketball team. You have your point guards, you've got your forwards, you have your centers, you have different people who play different positions when looking to fill out the boards, especially when you're when you're doing this as a part time deal, like everyone's usually part time, but if you're not living there on property, inspecting it every day, looking for improvements. When you're there just for a short period of time a year, you first want to make sure you've got people on the on the board who fill out the needs properly. Yeah, it's always important they but as as a board member myself, when I was a board member, as a real estate attorney, as a board member of my condominium association, they were very impressed by, okay, we have a real estate attorney. He knows condo law. That'll be helpful to us. We had an accountant on there, which is great, because you've got somebody who understands the budgeting process. But by Hoa, when I lived in Florida, I had someone who was actually a landscape architect, design person, nice, who really helped us manage all of our Hoa, all of our HOA grounds, and he was someone who could direct. People to do the right thing. And it was great, because living there full time, it drive the neighborhood every couple times a week, see what needs you pointed out it would take care of it when you don't have that type of expertise. Or, better yet, people full time there. It still helps to have people who are either great decision makers, great on process, that can ask the right questions, because many times I think that's what board members need to be skilled at, which is asking the proper questions to either challenge assumptions or to fully understand and appreciate what the needs are the association. Because I think one thing is universal. No one loves making the decision to raise fees the most unpopular thing one could do or take away an amenity that people love so much. And you talked about rules, you talk about parking. And what's really big in our world, in the timeshare world, is day use, if I live in the area, if I'm there at a ski resort and I live in I buy in Breckenridge, but I live in Denver, can I? Can I drive out and use the facilities? Are the ski lockers available to me anytime I want to go, you know. Can I? Can I do I have access to things like that? Or if I have a pool that during the summertime in Arizona, I don't have a pool of my house, but my timeshare has a pool. Can I go use it? Yeah, interesting, you know. And so how do I make a decision as a board member? Do we open it up this way? Do we crowd things up? So when I'm in residence, there's more local or more locals, maybe, than people who are actually staying there. But at the same time, I want full use. I want things to be vibrant. You want your commercial. If you've got a little restaurant on property, you want it to be busy. How do we keep it busy? And how do we make sure that the resorts being utilized properly, but not to the detriment of people who are there for their vacation time. So these are the issues that people have to be prepared, and I don't think to fully understand it until you're in it, then you see all of these decisions that all add up to the experience as to whether or not they're happy with their product. And really, from a developer standpoint, when you have these board members making decisions, a lot of it will affect whether or not somebody wants to buy, like you mentioned, if you own one week, maybe wanna buy two or three more weeks or more time, that decision is largely gonna be based upon your vacation needs, but it will also be based upon your experiences at that resort, which are a direct reflection of the decisions the board of the management company

Robert Nordlund:

make. Jason, this is fantastic stuff. Let's take a quick break now to hear from one of our sponsors, after which we'll be back with more common sense for common areas,

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Robert Nordlund:

we're back. Well, during the break, Jason and I were talking about where we went with this conversation, and if we're going to make this a multi part mini series, or if we can actually bring it to a close. But one thing I enjoyed was hearing the depth of skills that a timeshare board member needs, with so many factors going on yet, they have help of the manager, and it seems like they may be like a coach. Is that a fair thing to say, that the manager almost becomes like a coach to the board?

Jason Gamel:

It does, and in many circumstances will feel that way too, especially if you look at a smaller resort that has, perhaps a manager, on site manager or a very small management company helping them out, they're going to need different levels of coaching as to how to make sure they're running a successful board and ideas right, because that manager is also Going to help facilitate the different ideas that go in place to make a resort successful. I'm very familiar with with one resort that has a fantastic manager that works with the board and helps them really understand how to improve the amenities, for instance, so that way they get better rental rates for inventory that's on the rental market. How do they make themselves appeal online, because you realize it's a competitive world out there, right? And there's a lot of rental that they place the timeshare world. So how are you going to really make your resort both attractive to people who are looking at a rental the same way you are wanting to provide amenities for your owners where they're in residence, and how do you acquire those amenities? That you do, you have deals with other resorts. One person's used rock wall could be another Resort's brand new amenity, yeah, just because they're turning it out, you may find a wonderful deal as brand new to your owners, or one resort that that successfully turned, for instance, a tennis court that there was no longer using into. Do a putt, putt. You know, those are the type of things that people do that provide great value, and they really work for the manager needs to be creative and help coach those members and understand it. Where, in a larger context, with a very large professional management company, you're going to get more it's more advice. Yeah, this is going to be more of this is how we need to run things. Or here's our here's our version of operations. And people could be there to challenge, they could be there to question and understand whether or not the management company is using all of those resources wisely. But yet, there may be less full decision making for the board, because they have a much larger business operation that's being run to manage a resort with hundreds of units and significant common area to govern. So there's a really a different role that management companies will play very much so that affects the type of expertise in people you're looking for to be on the board, to be able to help with

Robert Nordlund:

it too. Yeah. Well, you mentioned that you were looking for people with different skill sets, but I would imagine you also look for people for people with different at different age brackets or Stan place in life. You may want someone who is retirees, or you may want someone who represents a younger generation, who is much more prone to use apps on their phone, or is looking to build a foundation of vacations for their family where they get away from the busyness of life and focus on having fun together as a family. So does that go into the blend?

Jason Gamel:

It does. I think when you look at it, you want this different blend of people to be able to look at the different ways that resorts are being used. You almost think about the way that an attorney might select a jury. If you're looking at people who are trying to evaluate a case, or look at a resort, you want diversity of opinion. You need to have a group of people who can evaluate what the needs are. If you had all say, retirees on your board, they might make decisions that would be most effective to their usage of a resort. And might not look at the way a 30 something might come with a small child and want to have amenities like a splash pad or something like that. That would be very important, that may have no interest to the retiree unless, of course, they're thinking about their grandkids. But you look at the but you're looking at the different ways that they could approach these different issues. The diversity of opinion matters. It really matters a lot, because it is a difficult thing. You talk about those challenges of every board, and I think every board member struggles with, what do we do with dues this year? You know, you can't control costs and expenses. You can't control, necessarily, inflation. You can't control the cost of labor. We had Arda, we just started it up, or we're about ready to launch our own insurance, captive to help provide property insurance for associations and for resorts all across the country. It's trying to meet a need that you realize people have a cost that they know they have to spend every year. How do we do so in the most efficient way possible? Because nobody likes to raise dues. But we all know, if there's one thing that will get in the way of a successful resort, or being making a resort successful is whether or not you're putting in the proper resources. I think you have to be smart with your budgeting. You got to be good about cutting out waste. If you take those things to start with, then you've got to really be able to spend the money to make this resort attractive. So that way people do want to be owners, that you don't lose your owners. Because unlike, say, somebody who owns a whole unit, they're not likely to think that themselves will be able to walk away from my unit because this has become too expensive. They'll sell it. They'll move on. But timeshare owners have a little different dilemma when it comes to what do they do and how do they feel about their resort, and what are their options once they believe that timeshare no longer fits their lifestyle, but yet, one of the big reasons might be my resort is in disrepair because my board won't spend the money to fix it up, and that comes at the board member decision about how much Money should be assessed.

Robert Nordlund:

I'm wringing my hands here because people who overemphasize saving money regularly do so at the peril of the entire property. If it's residential or resort, you know, you lose, you lose the things that made it nice to start with, and that decision making, Jason, you talked about being able to make the hard decisions we've spoken on the podcast previously, about the 4c of being an effective board member, about caring about being curious, about being courageous to be able to make that decision and say this, this does need to be done, and then communicating it effectively. And those are the same kind of characteristics you're talking about, maybe with larger issues. You talked about millions of dollars a budget, or 10s of million dollars of budget, and add the hospitality layer on top of it, but you do have a hopefully, a coach, a. A manager or a management team that's helping you along, but you still need to have those characteristics, and you're the board member helping to define what the future of the resort is gonna

Jason Gamel:

look like. So true, and that, to me, is just part of it's such a larger responsibility that I think a timeshare board member ever would anticipate before they join, when they realize that, yes, it's a lot too, when you sit on your own, Hoa, like I have, and others, when you're worried, when you're looking at your community. And yes, people know who you are, and they they talk to you get to know them. You get opinions whether you like them or not. Yeah, the because you're because you're there, well, this is very different, but your role is still extremely important. I mean, you're still responsible for the overall management, maintenance and repair of all the common areas and making sure this resort experience is a good one. And as people want to stay on these boards, they want to be re elected, and they want to continue to participate, it's important, though, that they balance that, that they've realized it's not always bad to spend more money, especially when it means that the maintenance and repair are going to stay at a level that people expect. Because at the end of the day, that's the name of the game. It's not just about saving money or being reelected as a board member. It's about making sure that property is just as nice as it was on day one, when I bought it as day 5000 when hopefully I'm still vacationing at that

Robert Nordlund:

property? Yeah, I just wrote down desirability, making it still a good thing. Well, I'm looking at the time. I've got another question for you, though, sure, I live in the world of residential community associations, and our world changed when we had the tragic Champlain tower South collapse in June of 2021, did that have the same I don't wanna say ripple effect. It had a catastrophic effect in how board members saw their product. Are we just here? Are we just saving money? Are we gonna redecorate the lobby this year? All of a sudden, they're concerned about safety and the stability of their building. Did that have the same repercussions in the timeshare in the resort world, or was it

Jason Gamel:

different there? It was same and different. So for one horrible tragedy, and it's one that I think everyone could relate to, especially in the timeshare industry, managing large properties or multi story some of them could be 20, 3040, years old, and when you looked at what happened there, it was a teachable moment as well for people to understand. Just like you mentioned, what kind of resources are being put in to a resort, what are decisions are being made and who's making the decisions to either put resources into a resort for maintenance and repair, to do the right reserve studies and the structural engineering studies to make sure that you're building especially those that are close to the ocean or maybe more susceptible to see that salt water, air and salt water intrusion, or you're looking at places in California that might be more earthquake prone. We as a trade association, do a lot of advocacy work. That's really the heart of any trade association is advocacy. And through the Arda resort owners Coalition, which we call Arda rock, that is how owners have a voice in what we do from a legislative advocacy perspective, because it is owners, and are the owners who contribute through their maintenance fees, voluntarily to our association to be able to do advocacy work on their behalf. And the reason I bring this up is because over the last few years, as you well know, there's been a lot of effort in Florida to try to legislate better safety standards, and I think those legislative efforts have highlighted two important things, one that it's difficult to find consensus on how all these different associations and management companies approach this issue. Everyone's got different thoughts. What's safety, what's right, what's wrong, what's too much. Three stories. Two stories. How frequently should you do these studies? What do you do now and what happens once? A board then receives a report that tells them something might be wrong, and how does that engineer couch it in a way that people can either act on it or not? But you realize that fiduciary duty comes back to you, and boards are going to, of course, act conservatively or they should. But what does that mean for the residents? What does that mean for longtime residents who've got their entire savings poured into their unit and otherwise. When you look at the timeshare world, part of it for us is the law, we'll just say, the law of unintended consequences. Yep, right. When we look at things that happen for residential versus timeshare, I'll give you one great example, Robert during the times in which the original days of legislation and happened last year, where legislators determined you needed to meet a board, needs to meet four times in person a year as a condominium association board to ensure they're really doing their job. This is important, Florida legislation. Florida legislation, so you look at the timeshare world, just this year, we finally made the proper amendment to that bill in. Saying for a timeshare Association that's not necessary, meeting once a year in person is more than important, more than enough, especially for people who aren't there full time, because you're bringing people back and four times a year when you could still meet if you needed to electronically, or you could get together by zoom, or you could pull together a special meeting whenever you need it. But this isn't a homestead property, so people are not this isn't their home. This isn't some place where they live, necessarily. So what is the consumer protection in four in person meetings a year, when we can still do all the structural issues that we structural studies, everything else that needs to be done. It's inefficient. It's impractical to bring people in from all over the country four times a year, and it just doesn't make sense or contracting for services. So there's a number of things you look at that were good ideas that were coming from legislation the Champlain tower tragedy, that from a timeshare perspective, just doesn't make sense because of the nature of ownership and the nature of management and board member participation. So I think it did rock our industry to the core. There had been even timeshare resorts that have gone through structural studies that found problems that literally kind of decommissioned the timeshare plan and sold the property that was then leveled and reused and rebuilt. But it's good. It highlighted an issue. It made everyone think twice about everything. To go get their structural reports to make sure they were in good shape, because we didn't want to see the strategy again. And really, it's changed the way that we view management overall, especially in Florida and beyond. Because this isn't something that's going to be just isolated to Florida. It will make its way. If the trade this happens somewhere else, in California, others, you'll see similar type legislation, and people should be thinking ahead, yeah,

Robert Nordlund:

well, I'm looking at my map here on my wall, Mother Nature and Father Time doesn't care about the border between Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and North Carolina. The buildings are going to deteriorate. So you got to manage deterioration and not just focus on the laws. But I like that summary that talking about the laws between timeshares and residential Association need to be similar, a little bit different, maybe different flavors. Jason, it's been great. It's been fantastic having you with us on the program here today. Any closing thoughts to add at this time? Well, first

Jason Gamel:

of all, thank you so much. Have me on the show again. The podcast been great. I think if there's one closing thought, I'd say to people is that they realize, if you're in an area or a community from a legislative or regulatory perspective, and you're thinking about the differences or the way that things should be for HOA operations, if you're part of a mixed unit community, which there are with timeshare, residential and hotel all in one, understand that those timeshare folks, Yes, there are definitely different but they have different needs, there's different thoughts, there's different concerns. And be mindful. If you're an HOA professional, you're thinking about what it means to manage a resort or what it is like to be part of an HOA world. In the timeshare space, there are special considerations you should know that be smart about asking questions and be aware

Robert Nordlund:

a sibling or a cousin, they're similar, but a little bit different. Fantastic. Well, if you'd like to get in touch with Jason or learn more about Arda, you can go to their website at Arda, a r, d, a.org Well, we hope you learned some HOA insights from our discussion today that helps you bring common sense to your common areas. We look forward to having you join us for another great episode next week.

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Robert Nordlund, PE, RS

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Julie Adamen

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Kevin Davis, CIRMS

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