Nothing But Anarchy
"Nothing But Anarchy" hosted by Chad Sanders explores and subverts sports, media, Hollywood, and culture. Chad's vulnerable and raw commentary creates a fresh podcast experience you don't want to miss. Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET on Youtube Live.
Subscribe to the "Nothing But Anarchy" Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Game analysis, social commentary, and music.
Instagram: @chadsand
Executive Producer: Chad Sanders
Producer: Morgan Williams
Music: Marcus Williams
Nothing But Anarchy
Eps. #45 Exploring Power and Influence: The Drew Barrymore Show, Ashton Kutcher, Mila Kunis, and LeBron James
Another episode of pushing the boundaries of the status quo and navigating change.
0:08 The anarchy of football
8:14 Chaos and change in entertainment
12:24 Chad's Reflection on the WGA strike and being creative
16:50 USA team loss and NBA players taking ownership
21:48 Narrative and trust in sports-media
37:38 Power and influence: Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis apology video
46:10 The Drew Barrymore Show & NBA rest policy
59:36 Challenges in Collaborative Projects
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
This is Nothing but Anarchy. This is the show that explores chaos around the world, around culture, around sports, around media and some other stuff. I think that'll do just nicely for an intro. Hello, all right, high energy. I'm high energy today, you all? This is Nothing but Anarchy the show that explores chaos in the world and sports and entertainment, music, all kinds of things. We're gonna play a song right here while people shuffle in and then we're gonna get right to it, aren't we? Yes, we are here. It is. Don't let me get me by pink. So so much to talk about today. It's Tuesday. The NFL is back.
Speaker 1:I spent all of Sunday. I spent 12 hours on Sunday eating queso and sliders and just filling myself up with unhealthy foods and watching football all day in Tim's basement, where he had five screens going and it's just a dopamine overload. And then I woke up and then I watched more football last night, the Jets' Bills game, which was like. It was like really, really exciting at the beginning because it was like Aaron Rodgers and fucking America and all this like USA, what's the word? What's the word when you're like pumping some shit up, usa propaganda, and Aaron Rodgers comes running into MetLife Stadium holding an American flag and it's like just crazy in there, just so, just high energy and shit. And it's like I have all these conflicting feelings about. I'm excited for football, but then there's like coaches wearing NYPD hats, but then it's like 9-11, so I'm kind of like I guess it's okay. I'm just confused, I don't really know what to think or feel and I'm overwhelmed because I think the Jets are about to be really good and they are like they're good even without Aaron Rodgers. And then Aaron Rodgers goes down. He doesn't even get to complete one pass. He's getting carted out. It's just like. So it's just. Football is so good at just being chaotic, like it's amazing how well designed this whole thing is. It's just chaos in your eyeballs the whole time. And then, like, of course the Bills go up because Aaron Rodgers is out. But then the Jets have this phenomenal defense. They got fucking sauce Gardner, who's becoming one of my favorite players ever just because he's so cool and he's so good at his job, and he wears a big ass chain. Now the owner's wearing a big ass chain, like, and then it's just. It's just like.
Speaker 1:It is a sport that I think imitates like actual carnage and war and anarchy and chaos in such a phenomenal way, and so I, after all that, then it's like the game's over, it's late at night on a Sunday, it's like time to like wind down or go to sleep. I wake up and I feel this is how I feel, like after I smoke hookah for too long, like I felt so good while smoking the hookah, and then the next day I'm like, damn, where did all my joy go? Like where did that good feeling go? It's like nigga, it was nicotine, bro. It wasn't real. And that's how I feel after watching football all fucking weekend. I'm so happy while I'm watching. I'm like such a little happy little Chad watching football, and then it's over and it's like, wait, what are you what? What is life again like? What do you do? So? But now I feel good.
Speaker 1:I feel good because I feel today, I feel like I feel inspired and I'm gonna talk about why I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do a little bit of this real quick. Oh, by the way, this is nothing but anarchy the show that explores chaos in the world, and sports and entertainment, music, all kinds of things. Morgan gives me thumbs up for reminding, for remembering to introduce the show. I feel inspired because of current events, which I'm gonna talk about, current events that affect me. I also feel inspired because of this the dialogue between this thing that I've been meaning to do for years but never got around to in a real way because I was focused on something else, I'm now doing it in a real way. That was so opaque and I'm gonna make it more clear later, but I'm not even gonna get to it yet. I'll come back to it. But here's why else I feel inspired.
Speaker 1:I was just listening I was obviously we were all just listening to Pink just now and that song means a lot to me. I was listening to Kid Cudi, mad Solar in the car. I've been listening to artists who there's like a class of artists that I relate to. That, I think, is really I think that they are special artists because of how vulnerable they are, how in touch they are with what they're going through, but almost maybe too in touch with what they're going through, to the point that, of course, those people both have had huge, massive crossover success. Crossover, I mean just like mainstream success. They both made a lot of money making music both Pink and Kid Cudi but not so much they have not become so sanitized. I don't know what Pink's about today, but at least at this point which he made, this type of music, kid Cudi has never become so sanitized by industry and handlers that you can't still see that he is going through something. Because of course he's going through something, because he's a person.
Speaker 1:And what I'm going through, what I've been going through my whole life, is I'm trying to work on existing in the middle a little bit. Sometimes as a person, not in my work, like in my work I don't want to exist in the middle, but like just in life, I'm trying to get comfortable with, like you know, like I saw a graphic that said to a like, 80% of his throws are to the middle of the field, right, a lot of guys spread it out. They go far to the right, far to the left, some down the middle, but like he goes down the middle all the time and it's because the play caller for the Dolphins designs plays that, where you throw down the middle because it's a little bit safer of an area to throw to, based on how they spread out the field. I'm no football whiz, even though I watch a lot of football, but that seems to be what's going on.
Speaker 1:I would like to like live with a little bit more grace for myself and a little bit less emotional volatility, based on the last thing that happened to me, if that makes sense, like I don't want to be so thrown, but moment to moment, by every single thing that happens to me and that's generally how I've been my entire life, like, when you catch me in a good mood, I'm in the best mood. When you catch me sad and salty, like I'm really salty and it all, and a lot of times it has to do with just something that happened five minutes ago. And the two things that are oftentimes at odds with each other internally for me are the performative nature of my ego, which which, um, wants to say to me and show to others look how, look how dope you are like. Look how fire you are. Look how clever you are, look how creative you are, um, look how cool you can be when you're being cool, like, look how much you can own the room when you want to look how much, look at all this shit you can do. You can write for an HBO show and then you can cameo in it. Because you, because you're that nigga, because you can, because you can do so much different shit.
Speaker 1:I would like to calm that voice down a little bit, because what's on the other side of that voice, or what's opposite that voice sitting at the table, is you're not shit, like you're not. Like, yeah, you can do all that stuff, but like, look how little you have done with all that talent. Look how little you've done with all those abilities. Like, look at how you still second guess yourself day to day. Look at how you still, um, try on five different outfits before. Look at how you still try on five different black t-shirts before you choose one and they're all the same shirt. Like that's, those two voices are at odds and they're both. They're both wrong. Like there's both storytellers.
Speaker 1:I've been writing in my book about how easy it is for me to trick myself because I'm a storyteller, how easy it is for me to to choose convenience or avoidance because I can just wrap a story around it. That's good enough for me to believe. So I am feeling inspired by the prospect of just trying to see what's actually in front of me, um, and what's allowing me to do that right now and this is going to get us into this docket a little bit what's allowing me to do that right now, to sort of like dead the voices a little bit, is I have to be incredibly present right now in a way that, let's say in my work specifically, I have to be incredibly present right now because there's anarchy and chaos happening in my industry and if, if you know me, like my friends will attest to this, I like when shit gets messy, I like when um, I like when there is an overthrowing, I like I root for the villains or the um, the sideways characters in Game of Thrones, who who are rooting for everything to go to shit so that we can start over again, like that's the conceit of this show and that's what's happening in my industry. Like the streamers are at war with the writers, the studios are at war with the writers, the networks are at war with the cable companies, the agents are at war with um the writers, as they have been for years, and we just kind of been quiet about it lately. It's just like it's not so everywhere right now and I'm going to come back to what that's leading me to do. Like what, what the actual actions are that that's creating me for, but I can feel like I feel this rumbling, like I feel it underneath my feet. I can feel that this industry it's all shaking and some new people are going to get to rise to prominence right.
Speaker 1:All the fucking um, all of the people who are leaning on the status quo and on things that they've already built and on the old regime and the old ways of doing things in my opinion, they are vulnerable right now. And those of us who are comfortable with evolution and trying new stuff and who truly do value the audience over the prestige of the studio or the publisher, who really know that, like the power is y'all, like the power you guys vote for who's popping, like you guys vote for whose voice you like to hear and watch and see and listen to. And all those other people are just middlemen with huge budgets. But the people who are in that former camp, like the people who are wrapped around this idea of, like I, I've worked so hard to get to this place in Hollywood and so like I don't want to give up the old ways of doing things, I don't want to talk directly to my audience, I want to talk to them through HBO, Max, like those people are in danger and like everybody's in the woods now.
Speaker 1:Those people are like the people, ass naked in the woods right now, who are, like, looking for something that they can, something that they like my agent I need my agent to fix this for me. And like you're you're not even allowed to really talk to your agent right now. You're like I need my executive at Netflix to like, ah, my overall deal, like and I'll come back to it because I have more to say about that because, in truth, I know I know somebody is going to smack my wrist for this not really because they better not, but I know somebody would want to smack my wrist for this which is to say, like I am as much as this is putting pressure on me as someone who makes money in these industries. I am enjoying the challenge of this, like I am enjoying the concept that is Chad. If you are truly creative, you will figure out a way to make this an opportunity for yourself, even though you can't get as cute as you used to. Like you can't fucking like, you can't play this offer against this offer and just call somebody to get a favor done at this studio or whatever, like, because you can't even talk to those people.
Speaker 1:Now it's like it really is just you and the audience. Like that's it and that's really what I have been saying. I wanted to be all along. I don't think I said any of that very clearly, so I'm going to say more of it in a bit, but I'll be right back. We're going to talk about sports and then we'll get to that. All right, okay, I used to remember when Blackberries Josh, remember when Blackberries Morgan you remember Blackberries?
Speaker 2:I was alive when Blackberries.
Speaker 1:But did you have one?
Speaker 2:No, okay.
Speaker 1:Spike Lee still uses a Blackberry, but do you remember when, okay, blackberries used to have? Do you remember that they had like a Messenger app on them or something?
Speaker 2:Yeah, bbm, messenger BBM.
Speaker 1:Messenger. I just want to say my Messenger name was Chattie Berry, as inspired by the song Holly Berry. Okay, so we're going to talk about sports and we're going to come back to all that other shit, because I think it's really interesting. By the way, we're having a live show on September 28th at Pony Boy in Greenpoint. It starts at six o'clock PM. You can email us at nothingbutanarchypod at gmailcom to get your invitation so you can RSVP. We would love for you to be there. We have probably I would guess probably roughly, I don't know 50 or so RSVPs at this point.
Speaker 1:We're going to be promoting a little more heavily over the next two weeks. We have a fantastic DJ who's DJing Tia Mowbly. It's a cool venue. It's going to be a party. It's going to be like you know, if you are intimidated by the proposition of walking into some Hollywood shit like it's not going to be that. So if you want to come, have a good time and talk to me or other people, I'm going to talk to y'all for a little bit and we're going to listen to music and have a good time. Anyway, you can find the link at the bio in my Instagram or you can email us at nothingbutanarchypod at gmailcom. That's a different email than you told me last time. All right, cool that one works too. All right.
Speaker 1:So I've been spending a lot of time at Tim and D'Lisa's house lately. Tim and D'Lisa are some black ass black folks, which is why I love them, because I'm like that and Tim and I are from the same place. However, here's one place that they're blacker than me. They can really eat like some hot ass spicy food for every meal every day, and so I oftentimes leave their house having eaten delicious food but afraid of what the rest of my night is going to be like, because I have digested so much heat and we got a lot of people on here today. So a few nights ago my puppy was at the dog sitter, so my puppy wasn't home, and I woke up in the middle of the night because I had eaten flaming hot chorizo at Tim and D'Lisa's house and I found myself on the turlet watching on Hulu the United States versus Canada game, which came one at 430 in the morning, because that's what they had done to my stomach, and I watched basically the entire game. Actually, I probably watched three quarters of the game the beginning two quarters, and then I missed most of the second half and then I watched overtime and what I saw was obviously the United States team lose to Canada and anybody. I watched almost all of the US games. I wasn't totally shocked that they lost that game. I mean, nobody was shocked. They underperformed the entire tournament.
Speaker 1:I know there are some who think, well, these other teams have more continuity, they play together all the time, etc. Etc. It doesn't matter to me. These are. This is a team full of some of these guys have max contracts in the NBA. I'll just say what it is man, black folks. We're supposed to be the best at basketball. We are and we are the best, and this is a team full of Black people, plus Austin Reeves. Excellent Black people, amazing Black folks. These are. They're not the 15 best players in the country, but they all fall between 35 and 70, at least Nobody on this team is a bum. The worst player on the team is probably Bobby Portis, who has been an integral role player on the championship team.
Speaker 1:There's, in my opinion, there's no excuse for this team to not win gold. I think it's a failure of the program. I think it's a failure of I'll say like, I think it's a failure of Grant Hill who constructed the team. I think it's a failure of Steve Kerr as the coach, and I think every year that we do this little. Oh, you know, like the rest of the world can really hoop and like you know, it's not easy to win these things. Like they didn't even medal, they did not even, they didn't even finish in the top three in the world. Okay, we're not talking about. They didn't win the whole thing, like they didn't even medal and it's it's. It's not good, but forget about that. Here's what's important, and this is, I think it's important while this thing is happening, where players are moving into more of a power seat, in the way that the stories are told around sports, I do think it's I, and which I celebrate, I applaud I think it's important for us to watch.
Speaker 1:Somebody asked me on Instagram a question that I did not post because I did not want the algorithm starting to feed me this kind of shit. But they asked me a question that was like how do you think, what do you? What do you think is the effect of? I forgot how he phrased it, but basically he was asking do you think it's bad that there's division in the black power movement and I was like my butt tight. My butt got really tight and I was like, oh my God, I don't even, I don't even want to see that sort of question on my shit. Like when people say people say, guys, just keep that stuff away from me, please. Like I don't want to have anything, I like to be able to write what I write and talk about what I talk about, feeling free. But I was like I don't, I don't forget. I was like is there a black power movement? I don't know the first fucking thing about the black power movement as it, as it corresponds to today, like I have no idea. So I didn't even answer the question. But here's, here's what I thought as the answer to the question, right, and I will connect it to something I do think we need to encourage.
Speaker 1:I don't think that the threat of divisiveness is a reason, should be a good enough reason for people to not question each other and question ideas and concepts, right? I don't think the con, I don't think unity is more important than self-interrogation. I think self, I think self-interrogation ultimately could be what will lead all of us, like the collective we of us, into sort of a better place where we all feel a little more comfortable, like following the thoughts and feelings inside us with the exception, probably, of people who have mental health problems, who need aid in some ways but like if we all could sit with the feelings of like, ooh, does this feel good or does this feel bad? Does it feel good to take advantage of someone or does it feel bad? It feels bad to me. Does it feel good to hurt someone or does it feel bad? It feels bad. Even a kid knows that right. A lot of times a kid will do something kind of mean and then just start crying because they're like fuck, like that didn't feel good, I feel bad. You know what I mean. So I think self-interrogation is important for every movement.
Speaker 1:I don't think we should emulate I don't think anybody should emulate sort of the most wicked movements in the world by just having pure allegiance and nationalism and all those sorts of things. So related to that, I was having a conversation with I have some new friends and I was having a conversation with one of my new friends and she was telling me about a conversation she had with her therapist and I was sharing something with her about a conversation that I had with mine and both of us challenged the point of view of the other person's therapist in that conversation and personally I think that's healthy. I like that. I think we got to keep our fucking goddamn eyes on these therapists. I think we need to keep the therapists in check. Right, they are mercenaries, they are workers for hire, they're contractors, they're consultants.
Speaker 1:Would you trust any of the four labels that I just? Would you give unilateral trust to a mercenary, a consultant, a worker for hire I used one other term, I can't remember a free agent of any other kind, right? No, like, I don't think anybody should be given full unilateral control over your point of view and actions. Right, I know I am probably a frustrating client to a therapist because anything that you tell me, I am going to self interrogate and challenge directly to you in real time. You know what I mean, because it's too important for me to just let it go down without sort of picking apart the nutrients of it and whatnot. So I think interrogation is important in all regards.
Speaker 1:How does this connect to this? The players are trying to take the pen and derive themselves the narratives around sports. I think that's fantastic. They just as well as fucking Brian Windhorst or Zach Lowe or Bill Simmons like. Why not them? You know what I mean. Why not the guys who actually know the sport, who actually know what's going on in the locker rooms? They interpersonal relationships, how the agents treat them Like. Why not the guys who actually know something, rather than fucking Brian Windhorst or Bill Simmons? However, now that they have the power of the pen the players, or they're getting it and now that they are starting to take control over how they're talked about, I think they deserve from us, the fans, the audience a deeper level of scrutiny in the way they tell their stories.
Speaker 1:When I saw this headline and it's paraphrased here LeBron wants to represent Team USA at 2024 Paris Olympics and his spearheading group of Hall of Famers right, a lot of y'all saw that headline. Right, you saw the tweet. It is very important to me that people know who tweeted that Shams Charania. Shams Charania is a client of Clutch Sports, which is a management company that is owned, or that is run and owned, by Rich Paul. Rich Paul, as we all know and just talked about, is LeBron's friend of 25 years who, like this, is a squad guys. Okay, this is like. Ifthis is like.
Speaker 1:If I wanted to get the word out that I was about to spearhead a team of writers. I Chad, chad is going to lead a team of writers comprised of Issa Rae, donald Glover and Sean Derrimes, right, and then I tell Morgan, morgan, can you go, tweet this out? That's the same thing that just happened here, which is to say, lebron, you are the old guy here, like, we don't need you to spearhead the team, just be on the team, be the fourth option. If Steph Curry's there, if Kevin Durant is there, I want those guys with the ball in the important moments more than I want you to have it. You're not the spearhead, but what I see and what I know is happening is LeBron is feeding a story to his team, to Shams, who works for him, who is allegedly a journalist but is managed by LeBron's management company.
Speaker 1:That is getting in front of. He's getting way in front of this thing so that the story that we all start telling each other and talking about and that eventually I'm sure he'll release as some sort of lackluster documentary series, because his company does not make anything good except Top Boy he's gonna say and shout out I hope you guys have a general for me soon. He's going to say something in the way of. It's like I don't want to go to any fucking generals ever again in my whole life, but I hope you'll have a project for me. He's gonna say I led this team to prosperity at a time when people were making fun of Team USA, at a time when people thought we were down. It's like dude, if you have Steph Curry, kevin Durant, devin Booker, james Harden, jason Tatum, lebron and Davis like if you guys are all on the team, we don't need a spearhead. Just roll the ball out and we'll bust everybody's ass.
Speaker 1:But this is storytelling, this is narrative creation. Pay attention to who is in cahoots with guys like LeBron right now, as the players start to tell the stories the way they want to tell them. I get it. Storytelling is powerful. I would rather LeBron have that power of pen than Bill Simmons I would. I trust LeBron more, not entirely because he's a billionaire, but I trust LeBron more to tell a story that's gonna benefit all of us. But, like what I still want more than LeBron's version of a story or Bill Simmons' version of a story. Brian Howard, I want the fucking truth, like I want to know what's actually what. So I don't know who's doing that in sports right now, maybe it can be us.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna play music and then I'm gonna come back. I'm just gonna say it, man, I'm gonna sound old, but the kids, the kids what's called the kids 25 and under they don't make no fun music like that anymore, like In hip-hop. How come music can't, how come hip-hop can't be fun anymore? Only Only the women make fun hip-hop music. Why are all the boys so sad? Why are the boys so sad? Boys are sad everywhere. That's the thing right now. All right, um, I keep sniffling and, mike, I'm sorry, I'm trying my best. So I Got a question on Instagram. I'm really enjoying this dialogue that's happening. Oh, let me try to say what I was saying earlier more clearly. I'm gonna say it very concisely.
Speaker 1:People told me years ago Well, okay, I get information from two schools that are at sometimes at Competition. They have competing thoughts about what's important for me. Right, I have in my life, um, I, I, I came from technology. I came from Google. Right, I came from Big tech and start-up tech, and there's all these like tech philosophers, like Neval Ravikant and Tim Ferriss and, you know, ben Horowitz and Mark Andresen, and there's all these like Um, wealthy 40s and 50s white guys and Indian guys who like shoot off their takes about, like how you should run your business and how to like how to how to make your money.
Speaker 1:And I really invested, like I really took to learning the shit that they were talking about and they emphasize the idea of the Power, the importance of the user, the follower, the audience, the one, the individual, the one person that follows you, that you turn into Two, that you turn into four. You know who else taught me that? Rappers Bun B, jay Z, lil Wayne. They told me the importance of the fucking, the fucking user. Right, gucci man taught me the importance of one person coming to your burglar bars, knocking on the window and walking away with like some crack. I never did that, obviously, but I Digested the idea of how important it is To be in hand-to-hand transaction with the people who like what you have.
Speaker 1:Now. That's one side. Now, on the other side, I've been influenced by these fuck niggers in Hollywood who made me think that prestige was the goal, who made me think that being hot, being, being sexy, being you know, having a feature in a cool Education and being invited to a party and having this person's number in your phone and like being, you know, being accepted, being at the cool kids table. I tried to reject that, but some of it gets in. I don't think people have the power to Be around things and not absorb them. We are. We have porous Bodies and spirits and minds right. So if you're in it, eventually you become somewhat of it.
Speaker 1:These two things both compete. They compete over my attention. The idea of building my personal audience and customer base versus building my Amorphous, nebulous, unknowable, quote-unquote brand like Does you know, well, might, does my agent pick up on the first call? Dude, can I call famous people? Uh, do, can do they call me? Like that kind of bullshit. I don't want to put names on the people who got me to, even thinking that stuff was cool or interesting or matters, but I Resent them for it.
Speaker 1:Now the right that that other side, with all the people who value bullshit Not to say that these tech heads or these rappers are valuing the right things, but if we're talking about building a business, I do think they value the right things. If we're talking about autonomy and freedom, I do think they value. Now, all the other parts of their lives I'm sure are fucked up like everybody's, but the individual audience, the, the people who are talking to me on Instagram, talking to me in this show, who tune into this show every day, are way more. I care way more what they think about me. Then what gatekeeper X at ABC or Hulu thinks about me? Because one of those, one of those people is Loyal and the other is Just anything. They just look at me as a number. They just look at me as like a one or a zero on a spreadsheet.
Speaker 1:So in this moment where the studios are not open for business, the prestige side of my whole thing is closed right now. Right, that little amorphous bullshit brand stardom thing, that thing over there is dead like it's, it's in turmoil, it's in chaos, like I am, I'm having to face. Oh yeah, the point of all of this that I lost sight of was to connect with the humans, like to stay on Ground level with everybody else. Like connect with the audience, connect with the people who actually care to read your fucking book. I don't even know if some of my representatives have read my goddamn book. You know what I mean, cuz it doesn't matter. It's about transaction for them. There's somebody who actually cares about what's in the book and they want to talk to you and they want to, they want to get to Know, they want to try to work through life together, like that's important.
Speaker 1:So I'm I'm inspired in this moment because that other shit I can't eat. There's nothing. Oh, there's nothing going on over there. I don't have any pitch meetings right now, and that the market, the, the market and the money over there is shrinking. So what I'm left with is, oh yeah, serve the audience, give, like, make stuff for them, like, build that, don't worry about what the gatekeepers want. So that's why, yeah, disgust though, hate them. Um, really true, like I really hate them. Damn, every time I come in here, like I forget when I'm living in my normal life that I just really hate them. It's not like hate, like I don't want to hurt them, but it's just like they're just so gross over there. I just ah, but when I come in here, I remember you know what I mean. Like I don't know why. It's something about talking into the microphone Makes me like it can feel it. I'm like, oh, so gross.
Speaker 1:So, regarding those people, power and influence, I got a question on Instagram. I was shooting questions back and forth and I think Hillary might have asked, or somebody asked, do you? I said something about power and influence because that's what we talked about in the last show, and Hillary or someone said, do you believe you have power and influence? And this surprised Morgan when I told her this this morning. I keep sniffling in the mic, I just did it again. It surprised Morgan this morning when I told her that that question. I said I was having a hard time answering that question. I think I said that to Hillary and Hillary is a frequent listener and caller and someone who communicates with me and the reason was because it made me feel shy. It made me, it put a spotlight on me that I was not, I wasn't in control of that, I wasn't ready for I. I realized that I felt uncomfortable Examining my own power and influence and I think the reason is because I Was uncomfortable one noticing that I wanted those things when I saw that question and then Measuring whether and then. It was very hard for me to measure whether I have those things when I saw that question.
Speaker 1:I know now there's a certain kind of power that I am comfortable with, which is the power that is internal Right. I know I feel very comfortable and happy and excited and grateful for the power that is. I Know I can make something real like. I know I can see something and I can realize the vision of that thing. I think I can do that for Almost anything that is like of creative metal. I think I could make a movie, I think I could make a song, I think I can make this show. I think I can make a dope TV series. I think I can make. I think I can make a lot of stuff like that's a sort that.
Speaker 1:But that power I think is mostly internal. It's like do you have the ability to have a vision and to start building that vision until it Reaches other people and they get behind it and then it grows and it turns into something Influence? I think there's this type of influence that I'm comfortable with, that I can speak to, which is, um, I think that my friend TJ put it this way to tweed a who joins the show sometimes. He said in so many words people feel inspired by how you walk, like, people feel inspired by like when you are, when you're going somewhere. People can tell you're going somewhere and they want to sometimes walk with you. I think that's an important form of influence. But there's all these other things around power and influence that I'm not comfortable with and this story reminded me of that. So Aston Kutcher and Meenak and Mila Kunis Mila Kunis is one of my favorite-looking white women Received backlash, for that's irrelevant to the story, but I just want to throw it in there.
Speaker 1:Aston Kutcher and Mila Kunis received backlash for writing letters of support for Danny Masterton. I Did not know who met Danny Masterton was. Obviously he was on that 70s show with them and Looks like he raped some people two people at least two, two that we know about and Aston Kutcher and Mila Kunis First in in the. What are those letters called when you you do a letter for to defend somebody character, character witnesses? They were character witnesses. They wrote a letter defending Danny Masterton, defending his character, talking about. I read the letter just talking about what a good person he is and how many people he's helped. And Aston Kutcher said he helped him, like avoid becoming a drug addict maybe, or something like that all these things that feel completely irrelevant to, in my opinion, determining what somebody's Sentencing should be for sexual assault. And then, after reading the letter, I watched a Video that Aston Kutcher and Mila Kunis made and published as a result of or in response to backlash that they got from the internet and presumably from people in their real lives and phone calls and Representatives and, I would guess, a PR agent who said y'all need to make this video Because people were like, what the fuck, why would you write that letter, why would you defend that guy? And so many things.
Speaker 1:Then at that point came to mind one very important one is Would I be willing to write a letter of support for someone close to me who had been accused of, an indicted for and found guilty for, doing something terrible? Right, that's one, and my, my, my, my most honest answer is yes, I would, yes, I would. Let's start there. There's almost nothing that my sister could be indicted for, possibly nothing that I would not Try my hardest to get her off from a terrible Sentencing, from a hard sentencing, for there's basically nothing.
Speaker 1:I am not of such a moral fabric that I would trust the legal system, a judge, the penal, like I. I am not of such a moral fabric that I would not try to get my sit, my actual sister, not a friend, not a homie, but my sister off that. My sister and I have been In the foxhole together since we were babies. You see what I'm like I Don't. It's like, I don't, I don't care, like it's my sister. You know what I'm saying. Like, whatever the thing is, whatever y'all telling me, even if she's admitting to it, I don't trust you all to punish my sister More than I trust. Forget about trust. Just like that feeling does not override the feeling that is, I want my sister to be safe and to be Not in that system.
Speaker 1:With that said, I don't know what relationship Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis have to this guy, danny Masterton, but he's not their sister and I wonder, I have to be left to wonder does this guy know something about them? Are they in some way? Were they in some way threatened by his sentencing in a way that made them want to appease him? Like, maybe I got to jump out here and do this because I just want that guy to remember that I tried to help him at some point, which is something that comes up for people A lot of times when people are down bad and they have predatory people around them. I'm not saying that's who these folks are, because I don't know them. You'll see people. You'll see the weirdest people sometimes reach out when you're in a bad moment, because they just want to have that little token with you, that like when you were down and everybody else was running away from you, they jumped in. So that was one.
Speaker 1:I realized in the moment that I am not above doing the thing that Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis did. I would do it for Shannon, I would do it for, probably, my nephews. I'll leave it at that. Number two I watched the video and I have a complicated relationship with actors and acting. I have tried my hand at acting not great at it, not even very good at it, probably not even good at it but what's passable is what I would call myself.
Speaker 1:When I act, I look like a writer. Y'all know how writers be looking when they act. You know what I'm saying. They can't like Donald Glover's like this. I think he's pretty good, but you can tell his mind he's still detached from what's happening. Actors are good at leaving their entire soul behind and being great actors and being someone else, and that's why Spike Lee told me years ago when I was single don't date the actors. They're fucking crazy. Do not date the actors.
Speaker 1:Okay, he saw me entering this environment of creative professionals and I think he could sense from me something that was true, which is like this guy's gonna get in here and his head is gonna be spinning because of women around in this whole thing. And, young man, by all means, do your thing, have fun, but stay away from the fucking actors. And I didn't do that. And it was one piece of advice that Spike gave me among many. He gave me 100 movies to watch and I didn't watch any of them, but it was one piece of advice that he gave me that I did not follow, because, indeed, something about these people, these alien people who are able to leave behind who they are and be someone else for a little while, there's something extremely alluring and interesting about that.
Speaker 1:I dated an actor who an actress, I guess, is what? What do we call actors, actress, all right, great, I still be seeing actress in print, sometimes all the time. But I dated an actor and she. One time we how to speak about this? We were at her house and we had been hanging out and I said something to the effect of like, something to the effect of like, wow, like you're really into that, about something that had happened while we were hanging out, and she, like it was such a fucking weird moment. She like looked at me and she like really looked at me and she was like I'm an actor and I was like, and I was really freaked out. I was like really like, oh, this is unsafe. Um, and I say that because in watching this video that Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis shot, I could not stop thinking about the fact that these are actors.
Speaker 1:They were being so earnest and so and we just, oh, we don't mean to, we didn't mean to upset anyone and we really meant no harm, and sexual assault is such a serious thing and it's so uncomfortable to me. And again, like I be around a lot of actors like real, like these people who be doing this shit every day. The way that I'd be writing that's how they be acting, all the time, nonstop, constantly getting better at it into their 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s, always acting. And I just felt such I was. So I was so uneasy about watching this apology video because it felt like they were using a superpower that they have as actors to manipulate, to brainwash, to evacuate something, to like clean their hands of something. In a way that just made me very. It made me very, I don't know. It just made me feel sick and that's the sort of like power and influence that scares me, like that's the side of the coin on all of this. That is scary to me is that, like you can do harm with those sorts of abilities. You can, like you really can kind of live a double life with that sort of shit.
Speaker 1:I was just like, why are you so earnest, like ew, why are you being like like just be a person, just be normal, like nobody's ever that serious when they're serious? Okay, so I got some images of Kobe Bryant sitting next to Vanessa Bryant when Kobe was like doing his press conference. You all know these images of Kobe where he's doing the press conference. He's sitting right next to him and he's like apologizing for whatever he did. And his face he's like making these crazy ass faces. I took three screenshots of him. He's like he just has a look of someone who's been caught doing something bad, and that's how you look when you're caught. You don't look like cause he's not an actor, he's Kobe. He's definitely weird, though, but like you don't look so earnest when you're really been caught, like not when you're on camera, like in the room with another human being in a hard conversation. Yes, you will probably look earnest, right, like your mind and your body are focused on the moment and not. They've evacuated the idea of like how do I look right now in a lot of cases. But that shit made me super uncomfortable and I don't know if most people care or have the wherewithal to separate, like to discern what they're seeing when they when we see actors pretending to be normal people, I don't think most people understand that they're still acting Like they're still acting. You still don't know them. All right, music. And then I'm coming back.
Speaker 1:Next thing we're going to talk about here Drew Barrymosh. Drew Barrymore show returns without its WGA writers. So Morgan sent me yesterday a was it a Hollywood reporter article? Hollywood reporter article about Drew Barrymore who decided to return to doing her show without the three WGA writers who worked for the show. And in said article, in said story, there was an account by two college students who went to go watch the show and on their way in they were handed like WGA strike pins. They put the pins on, they got inside and somebody or maybe it was SAG-AFTRA strike pins I think there were WGA strike pins inside Somebody in security was like trying to get them outside, trying to get them to leave, because they thought they were part of the strike and the students didn't seem to be a part of the strike. Somebody just handed them pins.
Speaker 2:They tried to get them to take the pins off.
Speaker 1:Tried to get them to take the pins off.
Speaker 2:And then, when they didn't, and they didn't Okay.
Speaker 1:So again, when I saw this headline so ostensibly people who call themselves writers write these headlines and or presumably and I immediately, of course, felt, okay, this headline is trying to tell me to feel something, which is something bad about Drew Barrymore, and like that's an obvious sort of low hanging fruit thing. It's like, okay, I guess, drew Barrymore, don't cross the strike line, why'd you do that? Annoying, annoying, whatever. I had to hold it bay any thoughts about the fact that, like, this is Drew Barrymore's job On some level. Doing this show might be Drew Barrymore's dream and I'd be willing to sacrifice my own dream for somebody else's strike. Probably not. But like she's different for me, she has different levels of privilege than me, I get it, I get it, I get it. But this was the other thing that I thought yeah, but for some reason I couldn't have done better, in fact, than you should have. I thought two things. One, I thought about another show that I know that doesn't have any writers working for it except for one, which is this show. And I thought about I've been talking, obviously I've been having a lot of conversations, quote, unquote, behind the scenes with people who are trying to figure out how to use this time right now. And now. People are saying the strike's gonna end in February. I know every time somebody tells me when the strike's gonna end, I know they're just guessing. Nobody knows. Somebody knows, but not anybody that is talking to me.
Speaker 1:I think this Drew Barrymore I almost a part of me is almost encouraging people like Drew Barrymore to try to do their shows without the writers, because, at the end of the day, the only leverage we're going to have as writers, the only real sustaining leverage we're gonna have, is if people can't make serviceable work without us. We need to know if they can or if they can't, or else this is not a sustainable. Why would you want to have a job that is unnecessary? Why would you want to have a job that is useless to the outcome, that is not important to the outcome of something? There's no players on a football team, on an NFL football team, whose position doesn't matter. Everybody's job matters. I don't want to have a job that doesn't matter. If Drew Barrymore can do, if Drew Barrymore, of all fucking people, can do her job without writers, then I guess you should do that.
Speaker 1:If Listen, if HBO Max or Max or whatever they're calling it can make a TV series that the people want to have and watch, without writers, then I guess we're just screwed y'all and I guess we're gonna have to find something else to do. I think that sounds like. I know that probably makes people feel really uncomfortable, but that's really what I think. Man, this is a time for us to figure out if we even have any leverage. We might not in this particular fight. Maybe the leverage we find is hey, those three WJR writers, are you good at something else? Can you go pull a set together in a team and make a show around yourselves? Maybe it's not gonna be as big as the Drew Barrymore show, but maybe it can pay your bills, maybe it can make you a little bit of money.
Speaker 1:The point that I'm trying to make is this If we are useless to the order of this thing, then this is a fight that we can kick the can on it. We can win it for another few years, but it's just gonna keep coming back up. Oh, the writers don't matter, let's get them out of here. What are they here for? I don't know any other way around. That as a truth, morgan. What do you think? Morgan? You have a look on your face that tells me you have a box.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to toss one other thing back at you, which is that there could be people that are good writers in her production but just aren't guild writers, so they can be working. So it doesn't necessarily mean that it's really just the guild writers that.
Speaker 1:Got you.
Speaker 2:People would probably still need writers, but it's just like who's able to work right now?
Speaker 1:Do we know whether or not there are non-guild writers on her show or we don't know?
Speaker 2:No, I'm sure she probably just has producers and stuff.
Speaker 1:Got you who are writers.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, You're just probably helping with whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's, I don't know. As the days go by, I feel, honestly, less pressure day by day to be like rah rah, shish-bum-bah about the writer's strike, because in some ways I think it's lost steam as a topic. I think it's lost steam as something that's interesting for people outside of the industry to even talk or care about, which is another signal to me that we're probably losing some leverage, because PR even for people in boardrooms, it, is leverage of some kind. Nobody wants to be called a monster over and over again in the press, and so I just Listen, man, if Drew Barrymore can do her show and the thing is I'm guessing that she can I'm guessing that the people who watch the Drew Barrymore show are not going to very much miss whatever sort of writing voice was there from the writers on that show Like, I imagine that those people will watch almost anything you put in front of them, so long as there's like a white woman sitting there whose face and voice they're familiar with. So I think she can. I think she's gonna be able to get that one off without us. Sorry, y'all All right.
Speaker 1:Next one the NBA is going to vote on New Star player rest policy per sources. So there has been for years now a conflict between the teams, the players and the owners, wherein the teams and the players are sort of on one side and the owners and the fans are kind of on another side. Actually, more than anything, I would say, the networks are on the other side of this issue, which is that the teams, the players, the coaches sometimes like to rest their star players so that they'll be available for the most important part of the season, which is the end. I have been of the opinion for years that the NBA season is too long. I think it should be cut down from 82 games to maybe 60. At least 20 of those NBA games feel superfluous to me. They feel useless, they feel unneeded. And now the owners it looks like, probably in cahoots with the media, with the networks want to put in place some sort of policy such that the best players like Kawhi Leonard, paul George, guys like that, can't just rest for a third of the season so that they're ready to go at the end of the season. They want to make sure that if people pay for a ticket to go watch these guys play, or pay for a TV package that allows them to watch them play, that they will be on the court.
Speaker 1:And again, I think there's sort of the obvious point here is this feels like a management versus labor dispute and it is. And my point of view, as it has been since the conceit of this show, is if you guys were the boss of your own league, this would not even be something you would have to negotiate with ownership, maybe something you would have to negotiate with the media, with the networks that cover your league. But why, even in the first place, is there somebody like Mark Cuban to tell Luca Doncic when and how much he needs to play Like? What value does Mark Cuban bring for that to be the case? If somebody knows the answer, tell me. But it doesn't really make much sense to me. This should be something that Luca is negotiating with LeBron. This should be something that Steph Curry is negotiating with KD. How much do we want to play so that the value of our league remains high? Why is there some white billionaire as a part of that conversation? In any regard, like all the guys at the top of this thing at this point own many businesses or have people running many businesses for them, have many of them have hundreds of millions of dollars in cash and assets. You guys are in the weight class of the people who all of you could have bought into NBA teams, like 10 years ago, like 20 years ago. So at what point do you think of yourselves as people who should be making these decisions unilaterally or with each other, as opposed to having to listen to like I don't know I can't even really name any NBA owners anymore because they're so hidden behind the veil but like, why is this? Like? This is stupid. Why is this something you even have to talk to anybody about? Like my man, jerry Jones, said, this should be something that you can figure out in five minutes on your own and send a text and it's done. How many games a year do we want to play, guys? That should be the end of it, but instead, like, mark Cuban gets to weigh in. I think that's ridiculous, all right.
Speaker 1:So I saw this photo of Drake and he was standing in front of a collection of all the bras that have been thrown at him as he's been doing his show, and it may be curious about something about Drake. So there's a difference between a guy who a person. I should say no, I'm just going to make it a little bit gendered, let's just do it. There's a difference between a guy I think it is gendered, honestly, because it shows up in different ways. There's a difference between a guy who likes to be in the streets, like. There's a difference between a guy who likes to lay down with a lot of people and a guy who may or may not like that thing but likes to be known as someone who likes that. And it's an important distinction because, as far as I can tell, drake is definitely the latter thing. He likes to be known as someone who has his way romantically. He likes to be known as someone who is wanted and who is able to sleep with a lot of people. And I wanted to like.
Speaker 1:I just kind of want to look at the psychology of that a little bit, because anybody who posts that photo, it's not really a photo that's saying like. It's a photo that's saying look how many people want me. And it's like you're Drake. Of course people want you. You know what I mean. Of course you are wantable to someone, but there's something inside of Drake that is wanting to project to everybody I am the ladies man. I, 36 year old, like.
Speaker 1:I think that I would say now, as a 35 year old, I believe that it's the most mundane thing in the world that someone like Drake, who is 36, single, wealthy, sort of kind of cool in his own way, I think, good looking, a good enough looking guy, like it's the most mundane thing in the world that he would have options romantically. But he really wants to throw it at me and I and I wonder, like it doesn't feel measured. In the way that so many things about Drake are calculated, like even his album covers, the way that he makes hat, you know captions into lyrics and all these other things Like this one feels like it's coming from inside, it feels like it's coming from a place of like I still don't think these people believe me, that people like me, that people want me, that women like me, that women want me. I still don't think they get it. I still don't.
Speaker 1:And that, to me, suggests that he still doesn't believe it, that he still, before his you know, first thing in the morning, before he gets moving, before his eyes open up, he still doesn't know like am I wantable? Like am I? Like? Am I somebody? That even probably was somebody laying down next to him? He probably still has those thoughts. He probably still lives in those thoughts. Cause I feel like I can, I feel like that's what I'm looking at when I see a photo of Drake standing. That's like a photo that I would expect from a 23 year old artist Maybe. Like, honestly, I don't think Brent Fias would do that. Like I don't think he would be like so floored by the fact that all these blurs bras have been thrown at him at his concerts that he needs to show everybody else that those bras have been thrown at him at his concerts. I think he would be like oh yeah, like that's a Tuesday night show. That's all that's what I thought. I thought I would have a. I think it wasn't that fun to me. I thought it was really sad, I thought it was really lame, I thought it was like I mean not to judge it because I know where those feelings come from, but like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm like Drake, you're like a year or two older than me. I am ready for you to you're the best. Like you're so dope, you're such a fire ass rapper, you're such a fire artist, writer, all that stuff I'm ready for you to like, give me some new. Sorry, just whack the mic. Give me some new things as someone in your age range. Like, give me some new things to think about, please, can you give me? Can you, can your diary shift over just slightly into a new sort of life range that can help me shine light on some things that I'm going through? Like, can you, can we get some of you too, drake, the 30 to 40 year old class. Like does it all have to be for, like, the 25 year olds? Can you give us a little bit too? That's all. That's what I want. All right, I'm gonna play some music. When we come back, we're gonna do calls. All right, we're gonna do one. We're gonna do one question from Instagram and then we're gonna do calls.
Speaker 1:Because I thought it was a good one, an interesting one. The question was I'll read it for Batem and then I'll paraphrase what I think it meant it's hard to work with people who are not entrepreneurs in order to get your projects out, and I think what that question means is, like, in collaborative projects, like not, you know not projects that are done and I just need, like a producer or a studio or a network or somebody to like develop it to the point where they can go on the air. But for a project like this, like Anarchy, like some other stuff that I've worked on, I think the question is like, when you're partnering with people I remember actually this is so funny, all right so the question is like, when you're partnering with other people on said stuff, like Morgan and Josh, in this regard, how important is it that they be people who? I think the question is like that they are people who are not full time employees of some other kind, right, and it's quite important. And it's not just because, as an example, like I, I've worked with a couple producers who are full timers at, like, network jobs, tv show jobs, whatever, and it's not just the time constraint that makes it clumsy, where, you know, I basically every day I choose what I'm going to do that day.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. I choose and and often it chooses for itself, because whatever has the most momentum, whatever has steam, whatever has a deadline upcoming, like that's what has to get done. You know the prioritization sometimes is very clear, because it's like oh, like I got a pitch coming up in next week. I got everything else has to drop. I got to work on that. Oh, I need my check for my book. So I got to finish this book. I'm going to I'm going to make myself get it done in two weeks. Oh, the studios are back open. This was a conversation that came up yesterday. I'm working with Corday on a project and it's like we have some partners on it and we're waiting for the studios to be open for pitches again.
Speaker 1:So there's a question around, like once, once we have a pitch date set, everybody including this person who is touring right now, like all over the world and has a newborn everybody has to say you know what, we're locked in now. We're going to make sure we're ready to go 10 days from now. And, like those ebbs and flows in pressure and the moment, it's important that everybody has the freedom of time and schedule to be able to lock in when those come. But beyond that, there's also something that I think people develop when they are self-employed, which is this, this feeling of there's. There's a risk propensity, like there's an ability to collectively shoot your shot at something and if it goes phenomenal, everybody gets something out of it, everybody gets paid, everybody gets an opportunity. You keep going. And if it doesn't go, these people can pick themselves up and go after the next thing, because there's a rhythm like that's what it.
Speaker 1:Like Steven Spielberg, his shit don't get made every time. You know what I mean. Like I don't know who's super popping right now, who's like the biggest actor in the world, the Rock, or somebody like that. His shit don't go every time. Kevin Hart's shit don't go every time. Like everybody's project that they work so hard on and spend hours baking and whatever like it get. Everybody's shit goes flat.
Speaker 1:And you got to work with you want to work with people who know that that's a part of the game. And you got to stay. You got to get back on the bicycle. Like you got to keep going. You got to keep going.
Speaker 1:And I think sometimes people who work at, who have something like a more stable livelihood, like a more stable contract with their employer, there's an expectation that there's I'll say a little crass like you feel like there's somebody there to hold up your ass, like that you feel like there's somebody behind you who can like keep it from all going to shit. And that's why you, that's why you, you know if you work in such a place, that's a trade off you're making. That's why you give them your good energy and your thought and your power and your intelligence and your creativity, because they're giving you safety. Like that's the exchange you're making for people who are not making that exchange. There's a different, there's like a different level of, I think, self. Like what's the word self? Self, what's the word? It's like they're more self contained. If something goes bad, they can. They can get themselves back on the horse a little bit more quickly and you need to work with people like that.
Speaker 1:And it's a funny thing, because I remember I posted something last night about this is dude. He used to be a super agent at WME. This guy named Phil Sun. He represented Donald Glover, lena Waithe, idris Elba, michael B Jordan, others. Now he works at now he's a partner at M88, which is macro's management wing. Still, I think he still manages all those people. He just went from agent to manager.
Speaker 1:But the first time I ever had a meeting with him, I asked him for, you know, some advice and his advice to me was save your money. I was looking for something super, you know, woo, woo, or like I was looking for a real cheat code to the whole industry and all that shit, and he told me save my money. Fuck, I'm sorry, I had a breakfast bar Collie. This is so bad for you, I'm sorry, um. He told me, save my money. And I'm glad he did because, like that really is the thing. That's the thing. So if you can pay your bills, you can make stuff and you can you get to retain value in those things and make more money from those things. If you can't pay your bills, you've got to go work for somebody and then you lose that value, you give it away.
Speaker 1:But he also told me something else in that same room. I was fussing because I was like I've been signed at this agency for X amount of months and you know, I thought y'all were going to help me do this, that and the third, and that I was going to make some money real quick. And I, and I added to that and I quit my job to do this full time. And he almost like scoffed at me, like it was almost like the idea that I even thought that was worth mentioning was ridiculous to him. He was like everybody here does this full time, like every fucking artist that we represent, like what? Like are you dumb? You know what I mean? He didn't, and of course he didn't say that, but he was like he was just reminding me that there's a whole community, a whole world of people who are on this cycle, who are on this bicycle doing it full time without any kind of like safety net buoying them. So there's a decorum, and the decorum is we all collectively, we work together, we shoot our shot, we see if we can get somewhere with it, and if we can't, then you know what I mean. We see each other when we see each other and we try again later, or something like that, or maybe we don't. So anyway, that's the long answer to to this question that you asked.
Speaker 1:I'm now going to open the phone lines and let's see if we have a caller. This was nothing but anarchy. The show that explores chaos in sports, music, entertainment, hollywood culture. We have a live show on September 28th. You can RSVP by sending us an email at nothingbutanarchypodcom. You can also find the link in my bio for the event if you want to RSVP there. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:Bye.
