Nothing But Anarchy
"Nothing But Anarchy" hosted by Chad Sanders explores and subverts sports, media, Hollywood, and culture. Chad's vulnerable and raw commentary creates a fresh podcast experience you don't want to miss. Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET on Youtube Live.
Subscribe to the "Nothing But Anarchy" Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Game analysis, social commentary, and music.
Instagram: @chadsand
Executive Producer: Chad Sanders
Producer: Morgan Williams
Music: Marcus Williams
Nothing But Anarchy
Eps. #48 Mr. Oogie Boogie Man, Extreme Football Fandom, Bill Simmons & Van Lathan, and Five Year Plans
We continue our journey in the media world, setting our sights on Bill Simmons and the Ringer network. Amidst a sea of unoriginality, one voice stands out - Van Lathan. With him, we delve into the gritty reality of 'black faces vs black voices' and the freedom of speech in the workplace. Our expedition also brings us face-to-face with personal transformation, the healing power of self-care, and the creative projects that have deeply affected us.
0:08 Exploring Chaos and Confronting Powerful Forces
8:57 Future Reflections and Where You'll Be
19:45 Football Fandom and Bill Simmons Controversy
31:06 Simmons and the Ringer's Lack of Originality
35:23 Discussions About the Ringer and Van Lathen
49:36 Exploring Future Settings and Personal Transformation
55:29 Giving Feedback on Creative Ideas
59:17 Feedback on Project and Personal Reflection
1:02:04 Navigating Adulthood and Future Collaborations
1:13:32 Real Feedback vs Validation
1:17:08Reflecting on Feedback and Taking Action
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
This is nothing but anarchy. This is the show that explores chaos around the world, around culture, around sports, around media and some other stuff. I think that'll do just nicely for an intro. This is nothing but anarchy. This is the podcast that explores I gotta find a little better spiel for this, because it's not exactly just chaos, but it's like we try to pull the threads. You know, like in the Nightmare Before Christmas when Mr Oogie Boogie man, do you remember? Did you see the Nightmare Before Christmas?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I don't remember it that way.
Speaker 1:So, okay, there's this guy, he's this big scary, he's the scariest guy to all this. This is a world of only scary people and he is the scariest of the scaries. He is like who you don't want to fuck with in their world and he captures Santa Claus Like that's the big kind of conflict of the movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 1:And Jack Skellington has to go save him. So he goes to Mr Oogie Boogie Man's lair, which also is like phenomenally artistic the way that it looks. It looks so cool. It's like technicolored and dark and spooky, but cool and fun, and there's good music down there and it's just him down there by himself with a bunch of bugs. But, mr Oogie Boogie man, the way that this spoiler alert, the way that this like confrontation with Mr Oogie Boogie man ends, is that his His like Oogie Boogie man skin or something his clothes get caught. No, it's not his clothes, it's him, it's his body. It gets caught on like something that's like spinning around Maybe it's a fan or something, I can't remember. I'm sure my sister will put it in the chat and it unthreads his whole Oogie Boogie man skin. You remember this now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I kind of do and what is revealed is that underneath Mr Oogie Boogie man is just a bunch of, like weak ass bugs, like just a bunch of little, like scared crawly, crick-a-crawly bugs. Now, I don't know, I don't have the exact language precisely on it, but that's what the show is supposed to be. These things that are all these, mr, all these Wizard of Oz's that we have in the world, like billionaires, hollywood folks, celebrity, the internet, like all these big, scary, powerful forces. We want this show to like stare them down, poke them in the eye, reveal what they are, and either we will find out that indeed they can crush us or they can't, and then we're free. And that's what I want the show to be Like. That's what I want my life to be on some level.
Speaker 1:Like that's what I'm going for when I make stuff is like, how much can I not be scared of how I will be judged, how I will sound Like? Is it allowed for me to just be me? Am I allowed to just say what I feel? You know what I'm saying? Is that such a violation that someone's going to cause harm to me? Is that such a violation if I just say something that is real and nuanced and honest or like, indeed, are my friends going to turn on me? Is my family going to stop loving me? Will my black car be revoked? Will I not be able to work anymore? Like, but why?
Speaker 1:I'm excited about this thing, that this, this, this, this angle I'm seeing in my business right now with regards to marketing, digital marketing, advertisements. I'm seeing a path where, if we execute, we get to give, we get to poke all that shit in the eye and nobody can cut off our lights. Like I see it, it's right there, but I don't know. I I feel, oh, I should also say this you want to come to our show next week? Okay, it's really a party. It's not a show. I'm going to do like five to 10 minutes on the mic, so I don't want to call it a show. It's a party. And we got a lot of RSVPs. I think we're probably in the 60s range of RSVPs at this point for something that's not even until next week. That's pretty good. It's at a bar that is very cool and funky, is called.
Speaker 2:Pony Boy.
Speaker 1:Pony Boy in Greenpoint. You can come join us there. I'll be there, morgan will be there, josh will be there, the show will be there and it's really just a chance for us to like. It's awesome to be able to talk to y'all, say the things, interact with y'all on the internet, engage, etc. But, like it's, there's something too human to human exchange that feels more, it feels inspiring, it feels like something extra. So if you want to come next Thursday, that's September 28th, at Pony Boy in Brooklyn, you can RSVP at nothing but anarchy pod at gmailcom or you can find the link in my bio to RSVP.
Speaker 1:I have been feeling very happy the last two weeks. It's fall, the show is working, my people I've been, I've been talking to people I like. Often I have something I'm obsessing over right now, something creatively, that I'm obsessing over. I also have something, like in in my business right now that I'm obsessing over. I think I found. I think I found a path to more marketing power for what I do in a way that's going to give us some freedom, in a way that's going to give us a little more control when it comes to advertisers, studios, sales. I saw, I got inspired. I saw Gia Peppers has a TV show that just got picked up on revolt, based on her podcast. I felt inspired by that.
Speaker 1:I feel like I feel like I feel like we're on the edge. I feel like we're on the pulse. I feel like we're like by the heater, you know, I feel like we're by the electric moth killing lamp. I feel like we're like right there by the, and I just feel like on the button. You know what I'm saying. I like it. It's, it's everything feels super charged right now. I feel like my blood is flowing neon green, like Nickelodeon slime or something. I just feel like. I feel like we're in flow state right now, like there's not a lot of resistance being presented by the universe to what we're trying to do. It feels good. It's sunny out, but it's only like 69 degrees. That's perfect, that's it. It's hoodie weather, but people are. It's outside.
Speaker 1:I keep saying this, but it means something to me. You all, I've lived in New York City for 12 years and I've said so many times I was going to leave and I'm still here. Has it been 12 years? 12, 11 years, no 12. I got here in 2011 and there's something. There's something that just keeps me here. It's just every time I think I'm trying to leave, I you know what is the thing is like just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. That's what happens to me here. So I give up, I, just I. I'm in.
Speaker 1:I'm in a give up state right now, and this is what I mean by this. I've probably tried for the last decade of my life to control outcomes, to try to like set a very specific target of what I want to be, and I have marched forward towards such targets, even despite my own well being, despite happiness, despite what feels good in some cases, despite my own better compass to go in another direction, or despite, like, the way that the universe is actually pushing me, the way that, like the way that the forces are actually blowing me to go, and recently I have had to. This has been a very upside down year for your boy. A lot of, especially this past summer. A lot of crazy shit went down this summer and I'll tell the story of pretty much all of it as we continue to do this show. But save to say I say this all to say I, I can really give up. Like I am 35 years old, I have spent basically the entire 35 years of my awareness trying to control outcomes, trying to think, thinking that I could like, resist hard enough to get exactly what I want. And I'm just done. I give up, I put it down, I'm just gonna go. I'm just gonna let the wind blow me. Now I'm gonna. I have stated my intentions, I know what I want, I know what I'm trying to do and I'm gonna put one foot in front of the other and see what happens. Somebody actually.
Speaker 1:This is directly related to a question I got on Instagram. That's why it's on my mind. I was like, why am I thinking about this? This is why it's on my mind. Also, shout out to my boy Tim. He's right here. It's his birthday. Whoever listens to this podcast.
Speaker 1:My boy Tim. It was his birthday yesterday and turned 32. He cooked a phenomenal dinner for us. It did not wake me up at four in the morning last night. It wasn't super spicy, but he made skirt steak. He made some super like tangy ass chicken I don't even know what it was called. He made mashed potatoes and he fed a small group of us for his birthday. He cooked for us. That's crazy, right, but that's kind of who he is so.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the point is, I got a question on Instagram that I'm gonna come back to when we get back to like the kind of ass chat bit at the end of this thing, and the question was where do you see yourself in five years? Simple question in theory, but not in actuality, right? Not in truth? Well, we got a big group here today. Hey, y'all, while you're here, go ahead and click that heart for me that's important and chat in the chat if you want to while we're doing this thing. Like, y'all don't have to be quiet while I talk. Y'all can talk amongst yourselves while I talk. It's fine, it's not gonna throw me off, and I say that because our engagement we are a big fancy podcast now. I'm not gonna lie to you. Like, we have much more in terms of audience on Spotify and Apple podcast now than we do here on AMP, but AMP is I don't know what to call them. They are a part of what we do here, so please engage on the app because that tells them that we're valuable to them. We got a bunch of shit to talk about today. Oh, I also feel inspired by this video.
Speaker 1:If you go to the OVO Twitter page, drake's like music labels Twitter page, they posted like a one minute long.
Speaker 1:Even if it's even that long, it's a studio session from eight years ago when they were recording what a time to be alive.
Speaker 1:And it's Drake future, looks like DJ Esco and I think maybe Mike Will, somebody else with a hat on, and it's just one minute of the four of them listening to digital dash, which is the first track on the album, which is a track that like sets the stage for an album, probably as well as anything that I can remember. Just like to tell you exactly what the album is going to be and who's involved and what kind of vibe they're on that track. Does that? And it's meaning something to me, because I've been going for these last few years but I haven't been in like all black everything mode, like I was when I was trying to get into this industry, and I feel like I'm entering that mode again where it's like a train. It's like clicking, clicking, clicking. It's like I'm a fucking I don't know. I'm like a locomotive of some kind. It's like I'm halfway blacked out, like I'm not even all the way like. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Josh is not even saying I know exactly what you're saying. You know what I'm saying. I'm like, I'm possessed. Like I'm like it's just you got tunnel vision yeah exactly tunnel vision.
Speaker 1:It's like I'm just going, so I wanna play that song because that song means something to me. Then we're gonna talk about future for a second and we're gonna talk about some other stuff, because we got a lot on the docket today. We're gonna talk about LeBron and why he hates Boston. We're gonna talk about a Patriots fan who was punched in the head and died at the stadium, at the football stadium last week. We're just talking about Austin Reeves on the ringer. We're gonna talk about the ringer in general. We're gonna talk about Van Leighton, who also is on the ringer and made an appearance on Adam 22. We're gonna talk about the Bishop Sycamore coach on Joe Biden. We're gonna talk about a bunch of shit. So we're getting to that in a second. But first the digital dash. Okay, I just had to let. I had to let Drake come in on that song, because it's really important when this happens, when two musicians or rappers are so locked in that the second guy's verse can come in with no hook in between. Like it's just like your shit ends and then my shit starts on the next beat and there's no low. It's just like because we're so locked in, because the vibe is just gonna stay right where it is Very important, very important. So, and we love future. We love future despite his future dumb. And part of it is because, like when I started putting color in my hair and Delisa was like she's like who do you think you are? And I was like future and it was kind of a joke, but it was also like these people are avatars for us, like this is. They are meant to inspire us, like they are our leaders in some ways, and I don't just mean rappers, I just mean like artists on some level are our leaders of culture. They like seeing in the future and bringing information back to us. So what future saw was it's okay to have color in your hair in your 30s. And I said you know what, it is okay to do that. And now I have that. So we love future. We also love future because, for a subset of my friends and I know many of them are listening to this music music is visual, even though it's audio. It's visual Like music takes you to a place, it takes you to a setting, it directs you, it tells you what to do in certain places, and many of my friends who love future we established our friendships in places where future's music makes sense. We bonded in places where future is in, future's music is in its natural habitat, which is to say, atlanta strip clubs, soul food, restaurants like South Beach, places where, like, it makes sense to be listening. If there's some places I go and you can't listen to future.
Speaker 1:I was on a trip. This was so stupid by me, but it is what it is. I was on a trip with a bunch of, like, mostly white social entrepreneurs in 2017. We were in Israel. It was a 10 day trip in Israel. It was phenomenal. It was called. It was called the reality global and I wrote about it in my new book.
Speaker 1:It's y'all can check it out. You should apply. It's like $700 and you go for 10 days. You will not spend another dollar. Like, you don't pay for food, you don't pay for travel. They take you all over the country, they teach you about Israel and you can decide how you want to digest what they're teaching you.
Speaker 1:But, like, it's a great trip, it's a party, it's a fun time and on the bus between you know we go from like Haifa to Tel Aviv, to Jerusalem, and on the bus in between it would be like they would play some music and like somebody would get the aux chord and play some music and it would be dark outside and like a lot of us was single and it would get a little bit active on the bus. Like people would be like low key, like kind of like freak dancing on the bus. So a bunch of people in their like late 20s and 30s and 40s. And at one point I got the aux chord and he had just played, like it wasn't me, by Shaggy. You know what I'm saying. Like white people love it wasn't me, they love it wasn't me. I don't get it. You never know what they're going to love, but like they fucking love Joe Falls.
Speaker 2:That's absolutely true. They will love. It wasn't me. You go to any like Airbnb, like in another country nowadays, and you go to like the spot where, like, like. You go to the spot where it's like all expats or something like that, they'll guarantee they'll play it. You'll hear that and you'll hear nothing but Bob Marley music the entire time.
Speaker 1:I don't get it, but it is what it is. And then I get the aux chord and I played like Jump man from this album. And then the guy, the white boy Ross, he like, he like, he like, whispers to me. He's like I don't think they're going to know how to dance to this and he takes the aux chord back. So, anyway, music has a setting, it has places that it needs to be in its natural habitat and future. Anyway, we love future. I don't need to fucking belay with the point about future. We love future. Come on, man, all right, stay alive. Future. These next four things I think I did a good setup on that thing about Josh. You liked how I set up the thing about Will Smith and Chris Rock and what so.
Speaker 1:I'm going to try. I'm going to try another one of those where I basically I give you four headlines and then I tell you the through line that I see on them. So this one's not going to be as genius as that one. So, just like, don't, don't get excited. But LeBron said on the shop in 2022, I don't know why this resurfaced on NBA Reddit, but NBA Reddit's really good at just going and pulling back to present something that was interesting from the past. Lebron said of Boston why he hates Boston quote, unquote because they're racist as fuck. That's why Love it when athletes get old and super wealthy and they just start saying the thing Love it. Second thing a Patriots fan was punched in the head before he died at the Dolphins Patriots game last week. Another fan says quote a fan in a Dolphins jersey reached over and just punched the victim twice in the face. That was witness Joe Kilmerton. The guy died. Ok, his name is Dale Mooney. Rest in peace.
Speaker 1:And before I go into these other headlines, what I will say that relates to Anarchy is I get a little bit anxious in football stadiums, music festivals. I get anxious in places where there are large groups of people, large groups of people who are drunk on drugs and I'll include as a drug, like overinvestment in something that is not. People get super invested in football and other shit like that because they need somewhere to deposit these feelings that they have from their real life, that they have nowhere else to put them. Domestic violence rates jump through the roof in England on soccer game days because guys go and get hopped up on adrenaline and testosterone and hyper masculinity and they feel like so obsessively, irresponsibly invested in an outcome that they have no control over, they go home, they're drunk, they're angry or they're excited, depending on the outcome, and then they realize like I have the place where I'm supposed to have this level of investment. My actual life I don't have. Like nothing else gives me this same feeling and they're sad and they're broken and they're depressed and they're hurt and they take it out on who they think they can take it out on, which is their wife, which is fucking miserable.
Speaker 1:And I can feel that, vibe, I can feel that, wait, me and Tim went to a Vikings Eagles game last year. I told y'all, walking into the stadium before we even inside, before they've even had their third, fourth, fifth, sixth beer, I already felt like this is a dangerous place to be and I'm going to be real with y'all. That's part of why we love football, is it's dangerous? That's why, historically, like, people love blood sports. It's dangerous. It's carnage, it's mortal combat it is.
Speaker 1:And the danger extends into the stands. It extends into I'm not going to know UFC fights y'all. I'll go, like in a very VIP way if I'm invited to do so, but like I will not go and be general population at a UFC fight, I will not do it. I will not go and sit next to somebody like Dana White, but without the millions and the big title. Like Dana White slaps his wife on video. We've seen it. I don't want to go hang out with those people and watch people beat each other up. It's also telling to me one that story made very little of a ripple across the sports, like the sports first, like which I think is an indicator that nobody is surprised that someone would get beat to death at a football game. Yo, that's crazy, man. Like were you aware of this?
Speaker 2:No, I didn't know about it until I saw the docket today and I was reading the story before you came through and I was just like I'll be honest with you, as someone that's from outside of Philadelphia, I was surprised it didn't happen at an Eagles game, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1:There are several cities where I could see this happening. At an Eagles game, I could see it happening at a Giants game, a Jets game, a 49ers game, a Raiders game, a Patriots game. But, to be honest with you, I could see it happening in almost every stadium in America, Because the nature of the sport is blood sport and the nature of fandom is unhealthy. It just like it just is. There's no way around it. Y'all, let's keep it a stack of room. It should tell us something about this sport that we have accepted, right, that almost killed DeMar Hamlin last year and we were all watching.
Speaker 1:It should tell us something that someone was punched in the head and it did not lead sport center, it wasn't. I don't even think I've seen it on the ESPN docket, on ESPNcom. I don't think I've seen it as one of the top eight bullets there. Ok, I'm moving on, but these are all remember, these are all related. Lebron says the thing about Boston Patriot fan punched in the head before and before he dies at the stadium Next Austin Rivers. Y'all know who that is. You know that is Josh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Doc Rivers son.
Speaker 1:Austin Rivers is the son of Doc Rivers, famous for many reasons. One is, like I said, son of Doc Rivers. Nba champion coach Doc Rivers formerly had his house burned down in Florida because he is married to a white woman. His son, austin Rivers, who is obviously of mixed race, was one of my favorite high school players of all time. His high school, his ball, is life. High school mixed tape is legendary. Go check it out. Six, three and a half life in body type. Two guard, scoring guard, like think of like Monta Ellis light is what I would call him Very quick, can be explosive, but never was able to have a reliable jump shot. Really was too small to even play like tweener guard for real. He's like. He's like a Zach Levine wannabe, like if he had the bounce and all that stuff. I liked him also because he went to Duke, which is my favorite college team, which is the decision that I have to re-arbitrate almost every year when Duke, when college sports start back up. He hit a game winning shot against UNC at the buzzer in college. He was the 12th pick in the NBA draft. He was the number one prospect coming out of high school and he's had a very forgettable NBA career. He's 31 now and hoping to make a roster.
Speaker 1:I listened to him on Bill Simmons podcast and I don't talk about Bill Simmons very much here but I think a lot about Bill Simmons because he is, in my opinion, the pioneer of what my job is becoming. I would say he is a. He is a writer. He's a New York Times bestselling author. He wrote the book of basketball which I read, I think in a week or two in college, skipped class to read it all 700-page book.
Speaker 1:He is, in my opinion, the foremost voice of podcasting. Like he was just on the edge of. He's always on the edge of media. I don't know if he will continue to be because he's in his mid-50s now, but here's the point he's a Boston-ass Boston head. He's a Boston-Boston-Boston-ass white boy and he has hired Austin Rivers as, like, a voice on his platforms. Austin Rivers, sorry, bill Simmons used to be at ESPN. He runs a network called the Ringer. It is one of the big podcasting networks. It is mostly shows about pop culture and sports. Like they have probably 40 podcasts on that network 20 to 40, somewhere around there. One of them is Austin Rivers' show and also Kali Rivers. Austin Rivers' sister has a podcast. It might be with Austin on the Ringer.
Speaker 1:Bill himself is a crazy Celtics fan and all Boston sports. He is known. He used to be known as the Boston Sports Guy. Then he became the Sports Guy, then he just became Bill Simmons. He's crazy. He's a fanatic about Boston sports. That's his whole thing. That's like how he built his, like his audience, and he was extremely critical of Doc Rivers as the head coach of the Celtics, to the point of insulting.
Speaker 1:And Bill Simmons I'm just gonna say what it is. He is very much often walking on the line between what I think is reasonable to say about somebody in sports and he very closely toes the line around being insulting to black athletes. I'm keeping it at a buck. Y'all want to see me put future business opportunities at risk. I'm doing it right now. You're watching me do it, okay, you're watching it live Now.
Speaker 1:I'm conflicted about this, about even speaking to this, because Bill Simmons, like I said, he is someone whose path I have watched more closely. I defy you to find somebody who has watched Bill Simmons' path more closely than I have over the last 20 years. I started reading his column when it was on page two on ESPN in 2008. That's how long I've been watching this dude and I think he knows intellectually that he should not press racial buttons in his coverage of sports, but at times I think he cannot help himself and he doesn't even know that he is doing that. That's what I believe. He thinks he's staying on the right side of the line. This is that liberal white people shit in LA. He thinks he's staying on the right side of the line, but he's ooh, he's right. His big toe is right over it, like Kevin Durant at the end of the Nets Bucks playoff game a couple years ago. Right, that's where he's at Now. He's one of these people who I have always looked up to from a business standpoint and now further reveal.
Speaker 1:Years ago, in one of my first business trips to LA, I stopped into this random bar because I had to. Just, I do a lot of killing time when I'm in LA, because everything is far as shit and everybody's at work and I'm just floating around the city waiting for my next meeting to start. Half the time, 90% of the time, that's what I'm doing. So I stop into this random sports bar, step outside with my drink I think I had like a seltzer water. Honestly, look up, five, six feet to the left of me is Bill Simmons standing there, about six foot two and a half. He's smoking a cigarette and I think for a beat. Think for a beat. This is right after I had met Spike Lee, so like six months later.
Speaker 1:So I'm like I am in the mode of like if I see somebody I'm saying something, so I get myself together, walk over oh, I had just written for grown-ish, that's what it was and I go over and I'm like hey, bill, my name's Chad Sanders. I just want to say, first of all, he sees me coming over and he's like he is giving he has very I have this too. He has very tired eyes. He has like he's got these bags that I have you know what I'm saying and he's smoking a cigarette and I'm drinking a beer. So he's like I don't know if he wants to be walked up on in this moment. And, on top of that, like I'm me, like I, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I'm me like, go look up the ringer's history in terms of hiring non-white people and women. Like just go look it up, you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm me, I walk up to him and he's giving me this look. That's like and I'll be honest with you, my dad kind of be looking at people like this sometimes, but he's looking at me like it's a combination of like I see you, I see you walking up to me. Whatever it is that we're, whatever it is that you want to say to me, do with me, whatever. Like, I see you and I'm right here, and it's like there's a wall. It's like don't cross the wall. You know what I'm saying? And I don't. I'm like, I just.
Speaker 1:I'm like, hey, I can feel his energy is like stay the fuck away from me. So I'm just, but I just have to give him this, because I he must know I read this man's book in two weeks in college. Yo skipped every fucking class, stayed home and read the book. And I have to tell him and I do, I'm like yo, bill um, big fan, been reading. You know, you inspired me to be a writer. That's what I told him. I just I was like I just wrote for Gronich. That's why I'm here and I one of the reasons why I wanted to be a writer is because of you and he kind of. You know he didn't thaw at all, but he just he gave me like a little like all right man, like you know, shook my hand. Nice to meet you, you know. That's. That's great to hear, whatever. Like that was it, that was it. And I got the fuck away from him, right. So that's just to say I've met him.
Speaker 1:Now fast forward a few years. My book comes out. Um, it's zeitgeisty among A certain class of white people. Like it's zeitgeisty around among, like white people who like to learn about other experiences. But, in my opinion, like, maybe don't have the stomach for like, um, what's his name? Ibram X Kindie. Like somebody who's really taking you through like a walk through trauma.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I get a who? Oh, shay Serrano. Shay Serrano writes me a blurb for my book. I forgot how we even met. Maybe we met on Twitter, I can't remember and we get connected.
Speaker 1:I get on the phone with Shay. I've just done like some of my book touring stuff, like like podcasts and shit and Shay's like this is, this is 2021. Now, shay's like you're good at this man. Like let me know if you ever want to pitch something to the ringer. That's what he tells me. I'm like, and I'm like, at this point I go when my book comes out, I have a pocket full of podcast concepts. I walk into it with that. I got five of them right. One becomes quitters, one becomes direct deposit, one becomes a show that you're that's about to be announced soon. You know like, I got them and I'm like yo, I got something. I got something. I got something. Um, you know, can you set, you know, can we have a meeting? So I, I, I first I pitched to him. He's like oh, that's a good idea. He hooked me up with this guy, sean Finnessy Thank you, tim.
Speaker 1:Sean Finnessy is the. He basically runs the ringer. After bill, he's number two. He's like the head of content at the ringer. Go have a conversation with Sean. I pitch him what would eventually become direct deposit. He says no, no, thank you.
Speaker 1:So I spend the block later with quitters after Spotify's made me a bad deal offer. I go back to to Sean pitch him this other thing. They say no, no, thank you. It is what it is. Sometimes they say yes, thank you, sometimes they say no, thank you. It is what it is.
Speaker 1:I'm just giving you all context so that you have all the information before I say what I have to say about the ringer, because if y'all want to think I'm salty. By all means, I just want you to have it. I just want you to know the information. So I'm not hiding it. This is what I, this is what I believe. Um, I think that Bill Simmons is extremely calculated and petty. He has vendettas against ESPN which are very obvious, but I believe he also has vendettas against other big voices at ESPN who he saw as competition to his own, and I think he sees other big voices around the sports sphere to varying degrees, as competition to his own. Bill Simmons likes to surround himself with yes, man bros is how I would describe them. He's got a bunch of he at the ringer there are working a bunch of Bill Simmons wannabe bros. They use the same. They're all trying to write talk joke. Like Bill Simmons. He has a. He has a stable full of Bill Simmons wannabes. Go look them up. I can't even think of their names.
Speaker 2:Ryan Rassillo.
Speaker 1:And and honestly I'm going to say this about Rassillo like I think of Rassillo as better than most of these other dudes. Like most of these other dudes are chicken heads. They are like rinse, repeat, drop. Like Rassillo, I think, can do the job and do it pretty good. These guys are like so forgettable that I cannot remember their names. And bill likes to stand on an empire of these bros because they reflect back up to him.
Speaker 1:You're so smart, bill Simmons, you're so clever. I want it to be just like you. I write just. I think I can try to write like go read a piece on the ring Like man. Just go read some old Bill Simmons shit. Like his voice is clear, he is clicking. He is sharp as fuck. He is smart, he is observant, he is um, he's got range in what, in what he can cover his voice. It's just like it's him, it's so him. It's a voice that got sports America addicted to it. And then go read a piece on the ringer right now, go read a wrap up of the NBA draft or predictions for the NFL season, and you're going to find a bunch of deluded Mr. Me Too, head ass like Bill Simmons want to be voices trying to get their jokes off. And it's just, it's just so flat, like it's just so flat. And I say this because sometimes Bill Simmons will hire black people to be voices on his network and for the most part those voices are acceptable and placating to white people, with one important exception, which is Van Lathen, and I'm going to come back to him.
Speaker 1:But go through the list of voices that you will see or hear on the ringer and you will find two varying degrees again, shows that never, ever, step too far in the way of being of like actually saying the thing Come on, y'all, it's the ringer. Like y'all don't got nothing to say about the place that you work at. Like y'all don't have like I can't give you specifics because I want you to just like give it a shot Like, go listen to and these are shows that I like for the most part go listen to real ones. Go listen to Austin Rivers. Go listen to hey man, fuck it, I'll keep it a buck. Love this show, right? Love this show. Well, I like the show. No skips, good show. Shout out to Jinx, my guy. And I don't know if it's the shows or I don't know if it's the principles at the ringer, but you will not hear people stepping out of bounds on that network Period. You will not hear it, with one exception Again Van Lathen.
Speaker 1:I'm coming back to Van Lathen, but I'm saying this to say I believe that Bill Simmons hired Austin Rivers and Cali Rivers because in some weird they're not awesome, they are not dopest podcasters Like I'm just going to be real, they're not. I think in some weird twisted way it gives Bill Simmons a feeling of like ownership over the Rivers family. He used to make jokes about wanting to hire Doc Rivers when he got out of the league. Like I think he likes to feel like he won that one, his little, his little teta-teta, his little like sparring with Doc Rivers or whatever he thought he was, he had going on. I think he feels like I won that one because my kids are here Now.
Speaker 1:I listened to Austin Rivers appearance on the ringer a couple days on Bill Simmons podcast a couple of days ago, which is their flagship podcast, probably the biggest podcast in sports, and what I heard from Austin Rivers was something that affirmed my theory. Right, it affirms the theory that I've heard before, which is that networks like the ringer and ESPN they like black faces. They do not want black voices. That's Dan Levitard's theory that he always throws out there. I heard Austin Rivers saying that he too is exhausted by the player empowerment era. In so many words, he too is exhausted by guys complaining about their money and guys complaining and wanting to leave their team and signing their deals and then jumping ship. He too feels surprise, surprise. He feels the way Bill Simmons feels. A wanting to be current NBA player feels the same way that his 55 year old white boss feels, excuse me, about the player empowerment era. And it was. It was all a reminder to me of something that is often. I cannot ever let go of it. I can never stop seeing it, I can never stop feeling it, even when I put myself in the same situation which is that when you work for somebody, you work for them. Like, when you work for somebody, you work for them. Their agenda is your agenda. Like what they want to impart on the world is what you will impart on the world. What, how? Like you will not step outside of the box of what is decent to them, of what is a meaningful agenda to them, because you work for them.
Speaker 1:Austin Rivers, I don't know why you think you need to do a show on the ringer. You could hire a, you could hire a homie, you could hire a production studio. You could come right here to Brooklyn podcasting studio and do the same work at a rate that you can afford I know you can afford it, because I can afford it and make a show of your own without Bill Simmons stamp on what you are and aren't allowed to say. But instead you've chosen this route. Now, van Lathen, let's get here also. Okay, you ready? Here come the disclaimers, or just here comes the information.
Speaker 1:Um, lately, I have been doing most of my work in most of my business, uh independently, which is to say, um, I I got, I am and have been managed by, uh, the same person since I started in this career. But I've grown up in this career a little bit Like I came in as a little baby. I've grown up a little bit, and so I've taken, I've taken the reins on a lot of my business. At this point I'm saying that to say that that same person, who uh is like family to me, who was there the day that I proposed, who brought bottles to the engagement party, like, who I still see as a brother, who I would go. You know he lives in Jersey. Like I go to visit from time to time and like I love I love his kids, I love his dog, like I love his wife all that Um, he also manages Van Lathen, and so that's just some information for y'all to have.
Speaker 1:It doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm about to say, but I just want y'all to have the information I'm, I'm and I got to say exactly what I mean here, because you know what I'm saying. That's just what I got to do, cause that's that's how I can sleep, is that I say exactly what I mean and live with the consequences. Um, y'all remember how we all know who Van Lathen is right. Josh, you remember how we know who Van Lathen is Actually.
Speaker 2:I'm really not that familiar with Van Lathen. Like I know everybody talks about him, like I'm aware of like his ideas and stuff, but I've never actually gotten into like his content.
Speaker 1:He is, in my opinion, one of the smartest and most compelling voices in audio. Uh, I originally became aware of him as as someone who had who never, ever, ever watches TMZ. I became aware of him because he is the guy who kicked up on Kanye when Kanye said slavery is a choice, while he was working at TMZ. Gotcha, um, there's so much more I could tell you about who this guy is. He's a black man, uh, very, very black, like he. He buy, I believe he would describe himself that way, as very black. He would say, um, he would say he loves black people, he stands for black people. He is the guy who will. In my opinion, he is the only guy at the ringer who, I think will set white people straight when they're saying some crazy shit on the ringer.
Speaker 1:Um, and, by the way, the through line on all this is just Boston. I think that much is clear, right, okay, thanks. Um, he's big. I mean, he is a big person one, but as, again, I think he would describe himself that way, but also and that is not insignificant in the job that I do, by the way like, uh, physical presence, very important in all of this stuff. Like, um, as in it like I'm short but I'm. I'm like I'm thick, like I'm like I have big shoulders and stuff, like I'm in the gym. You know what I mean? Uh, because a lot of the people in this thing are big people, like it's um, am I making sense? There's like there's presence. Bill Simmons is tall as fuck. You know what I mean. Like he's six, two and a half.
Speaker 2:That's pretty tall for like a which I would have never guessed, by the way.
Speaker 1:No, you wouldn't, Not, not by his voice, but like there's a physical. I keep I've said this on other platforms but like there's a Dax Shepard, big ass white boy. Like there's a physicality about this thing. Julie Bowen, in in runner's shape, she's like she, she can beat you in a race. You know what I mean. Like these are the Bowen, this thing are athletes. This is a, this is a physical sport. This whole entertain.
Speaker 1:Look at Kevin Hart, like, look at this very short man who is like chiseled, like a NFL player, like that's what's going on here. Now. Van Leighton is a big boy, like big man, 270 pounds, something like that, and he I think he talks about being over 300 pounds at times at his height, which I believe is six four. Never met him, but saying all that to say, as I watch Van Leighton and who is someone who I I'm not going to say necessarily look up to, but pay attention to how he's moving, and again, like his brain trust has something in you know, we have overlap and brain trust Like we have overlap in where we get our information and how we see the playing field. I'm curious about why one like why he has chosen the ringer as a place for his voice, in what ways he feels stifled at the ringer, if there are any. And, furthermore, I saw Van Leighton in a place I did not expect to see him. I've seen him on so many platforms. I saw him in a place I did not expect to see him recently, which was on Adam 22's no Jumper podcast. Now, adam 22, uh, man, famously a.
Speaker 1:You know, there are people who frown upon the corners of the internet that inhabit the breakfast club, um uh, joe button podcast, et cetera, because, uh, people believe I'm going to say it, I'm going to say it the way that I really think it. People think that the shit will get on you. People think that if you listen to something that and I'm and I'm not saying they're wrong they think that if you listen to something that is led by a host who is toxic, uh misinformed, meaningfully misinformed, like intentionally misinformed, like um misogynistic, anti-semitic, whatever the thing is like, people think it'll get on you. And I don't blame you for thinking that, like I do hold I have. I have said before I hold that the most important part of the job that I do is like be a good hang Like people got they. They got to want to be around you for however long you're on the mic, like that's the whole thing.
Speaker 1:And as far as Adam 22 goes, if you think that the breakfast club and Joe button are the sewer, this nigga, this is a white boy. This guy is like he is Mr Oogie Boogie man, like he's beneath the sewer. Okay, his shit is having on. You know, young black kids, early twenties who are involved in like rap, gang beef and shit like that, stirring up their shit, getting the clicks off of it. You look up and then one of these kids is dead, and then the next one's dead, and then the next one's dead and he brings them back on the show to interview them about. Now are you going to respond to him? Are you going to do this? But he's also, um, he's also in porn. Okay, so he's in porn.
Speaker 1:And recently his wife he, he and his wife chose a black man for her to have sex with on video as a. I mean, it was a porn flick, like that, that's what she does for a living, like. So then they got and then shortly after, I believe, they got married, something like that. So don't quote me on the timeline, but like, this happened very recently, like months ago, like a like two months ago maybe. And naturally you know, in that corner of the internet there's a lot of like, ha ha, ha. And like, wow, you let your wife do this with a black. Like, quote unquote you let your wife do this with a black man and why'd you dress? Pick a black man, all this other stuff, whatever, and um, it's just.
Speaker 1:I mean, look as far as places where sometimes, when people are holier than thou about the media, they're willing to consume, like I'll tell you what my shit. Like I just can't click, Joe Rogan, I just can't do it, I just cannot. Like I got a rule about white people saying the n-word. It is a no tolerance policy. Like you say it, you're out, I Can't, so I can't go there. I didn't know I had this other rule and I and I learned it. Generally speaking, I'm a viewer of y'all. If I were invited to go on Joe Rogan, I would go like oh, absolutely I would go.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll tell you where I would not go. And that's where I saw Van Lathen. I would not go on the atom 22 podcast and I did not even realize I wouldn't go on that podcast which is a huge platform, by the way did not realize I wouldn't go until I saw Van on the atom 22 podcast and I saw a mirror and I said, whoa, what are you doing there? And then I tried to listen to it and I I rarely have this experience because I like looking at some wild shit but I got about 10 minutes into their conversation about atom 22 and his wife having sex with this black man and I had to jump ship. I had to turn like, like, like a grandpa or a grandma, like. I had to turn it off, like. I remember one time I was probably like 13 years old and I was at my grandmother's house and my aunt Susan shout out. Aunt Susan was there and I, you know, I hooked up my little, I put a CD into the CD player and it came over the loud speakers, which I didn't. I didn't know how loud it was gonna be and it was the first clips album and I can't remember this, what this song is called, with Pharrell on it. But the very first second of this song and it goes get down Niggaz and bitches. And I'm like my aunt was like she's like, oh I. She was like physically pained by what she heard come through those speakers from her 13 year old nephew and she's like how do you listen to this? And that's what I felt watching Adam 22 and Van Lathen talk. I was like this is gross, man like. But I, I, you know you come up, how you come up. If you come through TMZ, you probably have a palette that can withstand Adam 22. I didn't come through that path, I came through a different path. So like I might have a palette that can withstand some other shit that some other people can't, whatever, I Just I learned where my boundaries are on, like my boundaries oh god, I don't want to use that word anymore. I learned what my rules are about, what I am allowed to put into my brain, and that was Stretching it too far such that I couldn't go any further. All right, what a long segment. Morgan's not here, so I'm just fucking waxing poetic and it's fine. I think that was all pretty good. The through line and all that is just Boston. So you know Boston. All right, I'm placing music right now. That's the song y'all should all listen to today I look good by Charlie boys. Cha LIE boy. I just, I, always, I Really just starting to explore, I mean, in the last couple years, like the feeling of wearing what I would say are I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, really, I really really want to see if I have what it takes to do like a smoky eye, but I just don't know if I can do it.
Speaker 1:We're gonna see. Um, all right, there were some things I always have the docket and then I have my notes pad and there were some things I wanted to say when we were talking about future that I didn't get to, and something that happened to me also Yesterday happened to me, nothing crazy, but that I that I want to talk about. So I'm gonna get into those real quick. So two things the future thing with like settings and like music, and how settings are related to how they are, how your human experience is is affected by what's what you're hearing and what you're seeing at the same time. A better way to say that is just Music soundtracks our lives and and podcasting is now taking on some of the audio market share for what you're listening to while you're experiencing life.
Speaker 1:Um, one of our Community members, one of the anarchists, one of the sort of core founding anarchists, hillary, shared with us or shared with me I can't remember if it was private or on this thing, but she shared that she listens to nothing but anarchy, like while Farming, or like tending to her gardens in Washington state, like, and I imagine like with the sun beating down on her and Just beautiful fields and scenery and lush grass and all this other stuff, and I just think it's so. I just Nothing makes me happier as I think about the show, then us like this show being a part of somebody's sensory, mandatory Experience in their life in a place that I have never been like, in a place that sounds amazing. You know, I'm here in brooklyn, I'm in queens, like I'm driving around in on concrete in the city and she's out there in that's basking in the sun, you know, pulling up fucking rutabagas or some shit and listening to this song. I mean this song, this, this, this, like this the show, um, the contrast of it is so special, like I think contrast is really important in good art and I I again, hillary if you ever have a 15 second Clip of what you're doing with this show playing in your ears I know I'm asking for free work, but I would really love to have it so I can post it and send people to your Instagram, because it's just really cool to me, man. So that's one thing.
Speaker 1:Second thing yesterday I go get my hair done and I got it. I got to remember to make my standing appointment to get my hair done, because I really do feel like a different person when my hair is done. When it's like freshly done, especially for those first like seven to ten days, um, like when you can see my scalp in between the locks, it's very like I really just feel like a bad bitch. I do, and it's true, I do and and I went to sabine, who I've been going to, uh, since I started growing my hair when I lived on notion and clifton. Her, her shop, sabine's hallway, is on notion avenue, maybe like eight blocks down from clifton. She is, uh, very special, very excellent hair, I guess like lactation, but just all all around hairdresser to you know all different types of people. Um, I think I believe Lena Waithe put me on to her years ago, but I can't remember how I found her and she's dope.
Speaker 1:I Go in the hairdresser. I go I first. I go like she washes my hair. She spends like 30 minutes washing my hair, which is such a fun experience, which is another reason why I need to book my regular appointment. It's just great to have someone else wash your hair for 30 minutes and then I go sit down and as soon as I sit down for to start twisting my hair, first words out of her mouth are. First words out of her mouth are. So I'm thinking about starting a podcast, and now this isn't really about sabine anymore, it's just about um I have.
Speaker 1:After this, after we walk out of here, I'm gonna have a conversation with a woman who is a um. She's like a classical musician black woman in los angeles who reached out because she saw an advertisement for One of my businesses, which is helping other people with their own content production, and I was just thinking while sitting in sabine's chair after she said that to me. This is a life that I am signing up for, which is when people want, when people have a creative idea. I am signing up to be the person who, once they've gotten themselves together and the courage to do so, who they're going to share it with and when someone shares their creative.
Speaker 1:First of all, sabine has a knockout, no failure possible name for her show, which I will not say here because someone will steal it. I wish I thought of it. It is an I like we'll see if she's able to develop the show and make it happen, all this stuff. But the name is a 10 out of 10 and I am starting to own because I've been hearing it a little bit from friends and otherwise. I'm starting to own that. I am good at names and I understand names and I know a good name when I hear one and hers is a fucking 10 out of 10, like it's so good.
Speaker 1:But when she's sharing the concept with me, I am accepting what I yeah, I'm accepting while listening to it, that I am signing up for a position, a life where people Hand me something extremely precious, when it is still in a fragile state, which is their creative vision and it's and and it's something that I bet sabine has probably not shared with anybody else in her life at this point and I will say like For the most part, especially when I know somebody like I know sabine to be a fantastic artist because I know what she does with hair and I've seen her do it in so many ways. She did my look for direct deposit. She's done hundreds of other people. You know All kinds of people, right? I know she can do something artistic. So I know if, in my opinion, if you can walk through any sort of artistic process, you can walk through every artistic process. That's my point of view.
Speaker 1:But I'm realizing, I'm noticing more and more that people are going to toss me their precious baby and have me look it over and ask of me, without harming them or the baby, can you give me feedback on the baby and then hand it back to me? And sometimes the baby's ugly, sometimes it's an ugly baby and I have to learn and I'm learning how to tell somebody and this is not the case with Sabine. Again, I think the concept and the name are A1. And that only matters like 2%. The other 98% is like how you execute it. But I can say 10 out of 10 on the concept and name. But what I'm saying is a lot of times the baby ain't shit and I got to learn what to do with that.
Speaker 1:What kind of fucked up baby can actually be made into a nice baby? What kind of fucked up baby? I'm going to stop calling it a baby. No, I'm going to change it right now. What kind of fucked up idea or creative vision needs to just be?
Speaker 1:I mean, there's literally a term in all this called kill your baby. So that's a writing term. It's a creative term. Like you got 10 things and you think they're all great and only one of them's going to survive. You got to kill nine of them. Like that's the nature of how we do this, but I don't want to keep calling them babies because I love babies. How do you tell somebody this thing is ass without making them feel like you're saying your ass, you're incapable, this thing that you think is good is bad? Or do I just say this one's not for me, but maybe somebody else has a way that they could see this through? Or I'm not sure I really understand, because it's a dilemma, because one is I have received some extremely harsh feedback in life, especially on creative stuff. That has helped me in a lot of ways A woman who read the first screenplay that I co-wrote with Leon, a producer who I shared it with maybe 10 years ago.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go find it in my email. Or maybe more than that, like 12 years ago. I'm going to go find it in my email so I can actually read it word for word one day on here. But, like her email in response to reading that thing was so scathing that I never have wanted for that project to ever be resuscitated in any way. Since then she was like and so I'm paraphrasing, but I'm paraphrasing to make it nicer. She said it meaner than this this is fucking basic, this is shit. This is misogynistic, this is lazy. This is not the way that you want people. This is not an impression that you want to make on people with how you write. And she added and this is the part I thought she was wrong about you really only get one shot with people on stuff like this. That's not true. So, and you know what, for what it's worth, I never heard of that lady ever again in my life, but her feedback on the project was true it was shit. It was fucking terrible.
Speaker 1:Now, sorry, leon, but you know that probably. Yeah, people I care about. I mean, when you sit down in somebody's chair barber, hairdresser, nail technician, I imagine, masseuse, whoever it is, you are trapped, you are there and you better handle the relationship with care because you are under their power for however long you're sitting there. And this is my hair, you guys, this is my hair. You know what I mean? I can't. Anyway, I think I've said enough. I'm going to move on. Now I'm going to play some music. Yeah, two chains can't wrap that, good y'all. I'm just saying it. I just got to get that take out there because it's been in my head all this time. Two chains cannot wrap that, good y'all. There are people in some. I'm not going to go far on this because you know what. I'm not going to say anything else about that. That's it All right. Here's the Q&A. Here's the Q&A. Q&a with Chad.
Speaker 2:This is a.
Speaker 1:B plus show today. B plus I think we did a B plus last time. I think we're averaging between a, b and a B plus, generally speaking on our shows and I think we can dial in into B between a B plus and an A. These are two questions from my Instagram. Really love getting questions on Instagram. Y'all, keep it up, it's fun. It's fun to like hear what y'all want to know. Respond back. It's also it's making me process. It's making me process my life.
Speaker 1:When I got that question where do you see yourself in five years, I took like 10 different takes before I shot off the one that I actually shot off First. I was like where am I going to be in five years? I'm going to be guys. I'm going to be 40. I'm going to be 40 in five years. I don't like, I don't know I'm, I'm. I feel in the moment, I feel lost in space, y'all. I don't know. I'm like this is not what I thought adulthood was like at all. I thought I was going to be like drinking a beer, watching sports on the couch every night, like I mean it's funny because I'm basically doing that, but without a beer. But like I thought I would be in like I don't know, in like a suburb. I thought I would be. Just be real. I thought I would be fatter. I thought I would be somehow. I thought I would look more like an adult, as if like that, as if I had any control over that. I thought life would be a little flatter, like flatter. You know what I mean. Like I didn't know life would still have these high highs and low lows. I thought I thought, after you turn 30, you basically just coast until you're dead. I thought that was like really what life was. And so, five years ago I'll tell you where I was at. Okay, five years ago, 30 years old, my 30th birthday. I had that's so funny I was promoting my birthday party on Instagram. I'm now promoting a different party on Instagram.
Speaker 1:I was, let's say, I'm about one. I think I'm like 165 right now. I was like probably 145-ish pounds, so I was 20 pounds lighter. My hair was much shorter.
Speaker 1:I lived in Bed-Stuy alone on a third story, on the third story of a three-story walkup. I lived next door. Okay, so in the building right next to mine, in the penthouse, like this beautiful fuck it's only a four-story building, but like a beautiful giant apartment, was Benson Claire, the creator of the show High Maintenance creator and star and I used to go sit on my roof and like hang out, I'll say. And Ben used to sit on his roof and hang out and his roof was just one story above mine in all ways and he would look over the side of it, like Mr Feeney, and give me wisdom sometimes because he knew what stage I was in. I was in the, you know, just met Spike Lee and just got in the writer's guild, just got an agent. I was in that stage and he knew as well as anyone that that stage meant I was at the beat of very beginning, like I had spent the previous two or three years just getting to the beginning and I'm still kind of in the beginning. But I was outside. I would take an Uber for any amount of money into the city to go to anything that I felt like would be a fun way to spend a night. I sometimes had some money, sometimes didn't, based on like the latest thing that I had just sold or whatever.
Speaker 1:I was just starting to get traction in writing and I thought, five years from now. I thought two years from now when I was 30, yeah, I thought, two years from now I'll be the star of my own TV series, I'll be rich, I will be like. That was kind of all I had in the vision. To be honest with you, I was starting to want a relationship. I remember that at 30. I had a birthday party at Kenfolk. I had another one at the dime for my 30th birthday and I had another one at the box. I was, I went all out on my 30th birthday. Shout out to all three of those places Kenfolk no longer exists, but the box and the dime still alive.
Speaker 1:And if you had asked me where I would be in five years like you know what's crazy is already by 30, I had learned that five years is too far away. I just it's just too far. Like every single year of this thing is a curveball. Every single fucking year of this thing is some new shit. Like can't even tell you all the ways. This year is some new shit. Don't know what to expect next year. So I definitely can't call it for 40. What I do know is my heroes are changing. I am starting to. I am 35. I have no children. I am not married.
Speaker 1:My life is so different from most of my friends in the in those ways, and those are just window dressings, those are just like trappings of a life, but like they're very meaningful parts of your life and what that means. And I feel sometimes some level of I feel free and I feel pretty happy and I'm like is there something irresponsible about having those feelings at this age? Like am I supposed to be? Like looking over my shoulder about feeling those things, like am I supposed to? And I'll tell you why I feel this because I go to stuff like um, no, no, no. Here's the reason. Uh, nobody, nobody on this particular. I'm looking right now in the audience.
Speaker 1:But, man, some of y'all can really those um, people are in funky places and they'll get it on you. Um, the strain that people are feeling in lives that they have chosen is so palpable and it is so it's heavy if you're an empathetic person and I absorb it, like I mean I got my own shit, but then I absorb other people's shit in a way that I think makes me guilty in the moments when I feel pretty weightless. Um, and smart people are always telling me they're like, yeah, but each person made their own choices. Like, just like you're making yours, you know, like you don't need to carry that for anybody, and I'm learning, I'm actually doing a pretty good job of it now but, like, never even once up until this point have I been willing to like feel free about that. Alright, enough about that.
Speaker 1:Um, so I don't know where I'm being five years. I don't know what I'm gonna be Dude. I don't even know when my next show is coming out. Like, I can't even I can't even get a crystal clear answer on when my next show drops. And my next show is gonna drop like within the, the, the the concept of like what, podcasting and sort of like the digital sphere, the digital dash world, like in the nature, in like the sphere of those things. My next show is gonna drop like a fucking bomb, like my next show is going to shake up. It's gonna rattle the hinges of my entire business. So I can't really see much further than beyond that and I don't even really want to.
Speaker 1:I'm, I feel, for the first time, like inside my life right now in a way that I really enjoy. Um, you know what I'm saying. When you're inside your life, like not in your future life, not in your past life like I'm in this life, right here I'm. I feel like. I feel like my I'm pushed out through the extremities of my body right now, like I can feel the, the tips of my fingertips. Okay, other question how can we work together? That's what somebody asked me on Instagram. I'm telling you all, right, right now. I'm telling you all this because I want it to be heard. There's a window.
Speaker 1:Right now, where I am, I have adopted a principle that you make longterm bets with longterm people. I didn't make it up, but I believe in it and I am. I'm in the phase right now of trying to, and I shouldn't even say I'm not even trying that hard, I'm just like paying attention. As it happens, I'm connecting to who I think are the people who are going to be the longterm people. You know what I'm saying. Josh and I are now probably a couple years in here. You know shit goes crazy and you never know what the fuck can happen.
Speaker 1:But man, would it feel like an upset if I'm not working with Morgan in some way five years from now? Man, would I be surprised by that Like, and I'd be surprised all the time. So don't hold me to it, but like seems likely to me. I am in the I. I had different people around me for the last few years and you know what Didn't like them? Like, didn't like being around them, didn't like how they worked, that much Not everybody, okay. So if you hear this and you're one of those people, like, if you're still working with me, there's a good chance that it's not you what I'm talking about. But, by and large, like, no, thank you, that's plenty. Thank you, no, thank you.
Speaker 1:But what I'm saying is, if you want to fuck with us, now is the time. Please raise your hand, because I need help. I need so much help Like we need we need designs for merchandise. We need more producers. We need I need like six there's no such thing as another Morgan, but just hear what I'm trying to say. Like I need like six more people who are wired like Morgan, who are just like, who are so like um, they're just so like hungry to do stuff that they can barely like sit still. You know what I mean. I need six more of people like that. I need people who can do what I can do. I need people like I need people who can anchor, who can carry a show Um, I probably need a co-host or two and I need people to like raise.
Speaker 1:I need hands raised, I need hands pointed. Point somebody out. If you know somebody's nice, don't be selfish. Be like yo, that person over there, they're cold, fuck with them. Um, there's a lot of opportunity right now. I think there's a lot of opportunity right now. Fuck with us, man. Um, I don't know why I'm being so whiny about it, but I'm here's why I'm being whiny about it because I know myself and how I've been in my life in different moments and I know people and I know Sometimes, when people hear somebody saying something like this, you don't think it's you Like, you don't think you're that I'm talking to you, but I am.
Speaker 1:I'm like yo, the dude who reached out to me on on uh Instagram and said how can we work together? He's an animator. I'm working on an animated show right now. I need an animator. Like fuck with me. I need somebody also Like my. My Instagram is, um, it is growing. Like it's becoming it's. It's becoming more and more like a vessel for people's creativity. It is becoming more and more a place that, if you, if something of yours is there, people will see it. I am promoting things more frequently Like I need. I just need even if that's the stage you're at right, Even if you just need, instead of 20 people to see your shit when you post it, if you just need like 2,500 people to see it, you know what I mean Like I can do that for you. Um, with you like fuck with me, just raise your hand. So we like I move fast, you raise your hand and we're going to bust some shit out ASAP. Josh, do I move pretty fast? I move pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:I move at light speed, man, like if I see you and you're dope, like we're going to be, we're going to be busting it down real fast. So, enough enough, that's my spiel, but I'm just trying to tell you something like let's do this, all right. Um, jeffrey asks. I'm just going to respond to this really quickly. Do people want real feedback or val? Do people want real feedback or validation? Um, depends on the person, depends on the moment.
Speaker 1:Uh, I've had people offer me feedback on this show and early on in the early seeds of this show, like Brian was going to give me he was, he was going to give me some feedback On the show and I was like give it to Morgan. Like give it to Morgan so that Morgan can process it into something that is not going to hurt me too much. Because here's the other thing about it is like if this were the only show I was, if this was the only thing I was working on, like I got to walk out of here and do something else, and if I take a feeling from getting poked in the eye about this into my next thing, like that's going to affect how I do my job At the next thing I walk over to. So sometimes I don't want real feedback. But when I ask for real feedback, I want real feedback. When I asked my sister I asked my sister a couple of days ago or yesterday I was like, hey, here's this real, morgan, cut the real. There's this one thing where I say this one thing about white people. Is this going to make me look bad? Is this going to make me look like I'm being hateful? Whatever? Like I need real feedback. I don't need no, everything's great. Like you're so good with your words. Like no, I need I'm like help me, like tell me the truth. How does this land? How is this going to feel to people, some people, jeffrey, I'll be real with you.
Speaker 1:I don't think most people want real feedback. I think when they get real feedback, it's incredibly refreshing to them and it stings and they don't know what to do with that feeling like a lemon. But I don't think most people want real feedback because most people don't ask for real feedback. I got a lot of friends working on a lot of stuff and ain't none, not one of them, asked me do you think this is good? Like, do you think this is cool? What should I do next? Like, but I think Sabine wants real feedback, because I sat my ass in that chair and she got her concept off to me within 20 seconds. You know what I'm saying. Like you can tell. You can tell when somebody wants to face what's what, there's a level of like fervor that they lean into. They're leaning into the truth, like they're leaning into what's real and what's fake.
Speaker 1:So I think that on some level, I have avoided for years a part of my business which I've been talking about, which is marketing. I have avoided taking marketing seriously because some part of me thought it was. Some part of me was apprehensive about the idea that I have more control than I want to In the outcomes of my projects. I'm going to say that differently, I have avoided learning how to market. Like I'm good at branding, I'm good at names, I'm good at playing around on Instagram and being coy and making people want to follow me, but like there's a level that I can turn the heat up on this shit that I have just hit, that I realized I've been avoiding it because I cared more about prestige. I care more about being. You know people be all right, I'm about to be an asshole.
Speaker 1:People be saying this bullshit. Like you know, I just want to be respected in my field. I just want other people in my craft to know what I do. Like I don't want them to actually see me, I don't want to be seen, I don't want it. Like that is fucking bullshit. Like, come on, man, that's a lie and I was telling that lie. Oh, I just, I just, you know, I just want people to know I'm good at my job. Like, so you want that. You don't want actual freedom. You don't want to actually be the person who gets to call your own number. Like I was telling myself a lot of that stuff and people were giving me the feedback like bro, you worked at Google, you are smart enough to learn how to do this. Like I want it to be lazy. Like I want it to be an artist. You know what I'm saying. Like so I didn't want real feedback and then I got so much real feedback that I couldn't unsee it and now I cannot unsee it.
Speaker 1:Now I completely understand that, yeah, it's dope, that black magic is zeitgeisty and respectable and it got me some opportunities, but it wasn't a New York Times bestseller and I think that's because I didn't do my part. You know what I'm saying. Like direct deposit, zeitgeisty cool, could be developed into a TV series. But like did a hundred thousand people hear that shit? No, I didn't do my part. This is me Anarchy. I'm doing my part. Now I gotta like do it from the nuts and bolts. I am yelling. I have had so much coffee in espresso. I'm shaking. I'm yelling. I feel really good about life right now. Fuck it, let's play some music I'm gonna get out of here. Goodbye.
Speaker 2:Bye.
