Nothing But Anarchy
"Nothing But Anarchy" hosted by Chad Sanders explores and subverts sports, media, Hollywood, and culture. Chad's vulnerable and raw commentary creates a fresh podcast experience you don't want to miss. Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET on Youtube Live.
Subscribe to the "Nothing But Anarchy" Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Game analysis, social commentary, and music.
Instagram: @chadsand
Executive Producer: Chad Sanders
Producer: Morgan Williams
Music: Marcus Williams
Nothing But Anarchy
Eps. #54 Prioritizing Honesty, Emotional Growth & Jada Pinkett Smith
0:08 Exploring Chaos and Reflections on Gratitude
8:11 Exploring Honesty and Personal Growth
15:12 Jada Pinkett Smith's Repetitive Storyline
29:18 Thoughts on Weddings and Homecoming
43:14 Discussing Shannon's Book "Company" and Perception
54:07 Gender Dynamics and City Comparisons
59:12 Influential Writers and Authenticity
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
This is nothing but anarchy. This is the show that explores chaos around the world, around culture, around sports, around media and some other stuff. I think that'll do just nicely for an intro. This is nothing but anarchy. This is the show that explores chaos in subverts music, entertainment, sports, media, everything, everything. I mean not everything, only things that are interesting.
Speaker 1:Chachki's here. Chachki say hi. Hi, chachki is my cousin. Her real name is Chachki, but her nickname is Rachel, which she also goes by sometimes. She's my actual cousin, my actual first cousin. Only have two of those and she's one.
Speaker 1:She's the only lady and I've known her since she was born. And when she was born, daddy tell the story on here. When she was born, our family, my mom, my dad, my sister and I we drove up from Maryland to you're born in Philadelphia, right In the city, into Philly, and we accidentally walked into a psychiatric ward that we thought was the hospital and it took us a minute to be like you know it was. I don't want to say anything bad about that, but it was. It was scary. Okay, we got a bunch of shit to talk about today we are going to start by. I'm going to tell you all a little bit about the night that I had last night, because that's generally where I start lately, because nights are a thing in my life again. But last night was a different kind of night. It wasn't like I wasn't like out in the streets.
Speaker 1:I was at Emmy squared with Justin Lovett, who listens to, I think, every episode of this show. He is also one of my oldest friends, played high school basketball with him. I've known him since middle school, known as wife Taylor, since elementary school. I met her at Charles R Drew elementary school in Silver Spring when I was in fifth grade and she was in fourth grade and Justin was here in town for a work conference. We met up at Emmy squared pizza in Williamsburg. I ate my whole pizza. It looked like he only ate half of his.
Speaker 1:So now I'm like squeamish. I'm like damn, did he not like the food? Did it? Was his time off because of the time zone, differences, whatever. But we, as it goes with old friends, like you, can't you can't really dodge and weave with your old friends in conversation. I'm not particularly a dodger and weaver in any regard, but you can't like hide from the people who really really know you because they can see when you're hiding.
Speaker 1:So after we talked, you know, we did small talk about Drake for like eight minutes and then we got right to it and we did the full. You know I haven't had dinner with Justin in years at this point because of first it's the pandemic, then it's just being adults. You know, in your thirties and he lives in LA, I live here, we're both from the same place. But when we go home for holidays and stuff, like, you spend that time with your family. And I did see him over the over these past. When did I? Why did I see him? I saw him over the summer, for some reason. We were in town the same weekend of this past summer, the fourth of July.
Speaker 1:Let me get to the point. We did the full, deep dive, right? We, we, we gossiped, we shared people's secrets, we shared our own secrets, and it's important to do that with people because what we came to is that everybody's life is in some some state of mild to intense disarray. At this point, something that we talked about and I can get into, every range of all the isms are affecting our friends losses of parents and children, you know, miscarriages, like infidelities, just everything, everything, everything right, and it's almost so much to the point where, as we talked about it, it's like you don't even have to, you don't even have to be specific about the circumstance and the who's and the what's and the where's and the why's, because it's so ubiquitous at this point that everybody is going through so much shit. And it was heavy. I mean to be honest with you, like we we after where we left and we went to a hooker bar and we watched the WNBA finals and like just talked about. You know, we just talked shit, which is what we really often do is just talk about sports. Like I g chat with Justin and my sister the only people I g chat and Amanda Calper, incidentally and me and Justin g chat every single day about sports and we have since each I started, but we don't talk about this stuff and I left feeling, in a way I mean obviously some heaviness, just because of everything that we had gotten into, everything that's going on with people like these are not people who came into our lives and left. These are people who we've known for like 20, 25 years, who are going through the realest, realest shit. When I got home, you know, and I like hang out with my dog for a little bit.
Speaker 1:I felt something that I've been feeling more frequently lately and I think this I don't know if this is like cause I'm old not old but like I don't know if this cause I'm getting into another phase of adulthood. I don't know if it's because I've just gone through something recently, but I started feeling an woo woo alert. This is not my general tone, but I started feeling really grateful. I started feeling um lucky, like. I started feeling like my problems are small problems, and something else I've been feeling lately is, um, I have some control over how, over what my problems are, which is, let me say that, differently, one of my biggest complaints in my life, like one of my biggest hardships, is, um, this is difficult to say because it can come out a certain way, but one of the biggest difficulties in my life is that I wake up and start most days on joy and excitement. Like I start most days with, uh, a beating butterflies in my chest about, like what the day can be and um, I feel sometimes guilty about that and I also opt to give it away. Sometimes I I go looking for somebody who's going to make me feel worse by accident and I'm only just realizing, like truly now in my life, like yesterday, like conversation yesterday, not with my friend, but with somebody else earlier in the day that actually just crystallized for me Like you don't have to do that, you, you chad like self. You don't actually have to give your joy away when you feel it and it can go away. Like you pick up the phone and you dial the wrong number and it can go away. You look at the wrong, you look at the wrong thing on Instagram and it can go away. Um, so these are the conversations.
Speaker 1:I have a lot of alone time right now, so I'm just sharing some of that with you all, but like alone time, you know, I realized today I'm mad about some shit. I'm mad about, um, something completely separate from this. I'm mad about a project that I want to be released and it's being held up by all these other things that are out of my control. It's very frustrating when you feel like you've done something good and you want to share it with people Like that's my whole. It's my whole thing. I like to make my little snow globe and then share it Like that's that's the whole thing, and when it takes sometimes months or years for you to get to share the snow globe. It's like it starts. It starts fucking with you.
Speaker 1:And I realized in the car on the way here I was doing something that I never do, which is I wasn't listening to music on the way here. I usually always am listening to. I'm trying to like listen to other people whose voices are clear to me, whether they're actual voice or like clear in the music, so that I can absorb some of that and then bring it with me. And today I was almost parking by the time I realized I wasn't listening to music because I was talking to myself, I was talking through, I was writing the email that I'm going to write later. I was saying the words to myself.
Speaker 1:I was processing the feelings. I was weighing the balance of how much feeling do I give them versus how much analysis, versus how much like email speak. I thought self like you're 35. You can't just like come in with all these raw emotions like you're 25. It's not a podcast, it's an email. Like these are adults with you know, with their own responsibilities and their own incentives and all this other shit.
Speaker 1:So I guess where I'm led is just to say that this has been a period of alone time, which used to be the thing that I hated the most. I've said before I didn't like showering when I was a kid because I didn't want to be mine by myself, and it's a weird thing, like all this alone time right now, I have recently felt less alone than I have felt for the last few years, and I don't know, it's just one of those things as one of those things I can't even add up. I can't. I can't do all the math on why it's so, but like I can feel it and I can follow it. All right, I'm done. That was 12 minutes. My therapist said that you always do your opening spiel in 12 minutes and I realized it's because I do that for this podcast Also. By the way, y'all can't see this, but we have a new studio setup, so I'm getting acclimated to like the cameras closer to my face. I have a different background.
Speaker 1:We are let's just call it we're trying to make the show. We're trying to make the show look sexier. Like this is the entertainment industry. You know. You want to see some ass, I want to see some cash. It's the other way around Like I want to see some cash, so I got to show some ass, and that's what we're doing we are. We are reframing how the show looks because the party looked too good and now the show needs to match that and also, frankly, like, I need to match that. I need to like not come in here with a wrinkled T shirt. So so here we go. So here we go. We're selling ass. Let's talk about honesty.
Speaker 1:In the car, justin said to me something he has said to me before about this show, which is he is surprised by how honest I am on the show. He's surprised by how much I'm willing to share. We're going to this is going to dovetail into a conversation about Jada Pinkett Smith Just you wait. So he is surprised. He's known me my whole life. We were in basketball practices together. We were in parties together. We were in cars together, getting pulled over together. We were going to meet up with girls together. We were like he's known me my whole life. He used to sleep over at my house, like every week type of thing. You know he, he could come to my parents house without me there and go in the refrigerator without asking.
Speaker 1:It's that kind of relationship, that kind of friendship, and he is. He is getting to know me in a way that he doesn't know me by way of this show, as I think are many people, his wife. He shared with Taylor his wife, who was known me since elementary school that same thing. She does not really listen to the show and he was like I. Just I'm surprised by how honest he is. I'm surprised by how much he's willing to reveal in the show, like regarding his point of view, who he is, how he is, why he thinks how he thinks, et cetera. And she was not surprised which I found to be interesting that they saw it two different ways. And and frankly, I think there's a couple of reasons for that. Right, justin is a six foot three, like you know. I don't know what he looks like with his shirt off now, but like used to be a strapping young lad. Right, he was the center on our basketball team and we were a part of a cohort of you know like want to be hyper masculine teenage basketball players, like that was what we were going for.
Speaker 1:I am on record and I continue to say even to my friends, my male friends, today, like we don't really keep it a buck with each other, like we'd be lying all the time Like guys, something will happen in our, in our circle, something will happen to somebody that we care about, something serious you know what I mean. And guys will be so surprised. Guys will be like I can't believe he did XYZ. Or yeah, I know he did that thing back in the day, but that's not really who he is. Or I can't believe he's going through this thing that he catalyzed in his own life. And the reason why people, why we're surprised, is because we be lying. We don't tell each other what's really going on. We don't um, we don't reveal we, we hide behind, like we hide behind the thing, we hide behind some kind of surface.
Speaker 1:And I do think that part of why Justin is, is, and was surprised by the level of honest. I don't think it's the level of honesty that's surprising him. I think it's sort of the person that's underneath it all, like I think it's, you know, I think it's the, the amalgam of takes and feelings and insecurities and, um, frayed relationships and aspirations that I never revealed to, like my basketball teammates, my frat brothers, and it's not just like a guy thing, just like anywhere where I didn't feel like I could just be like a squishy, loopy, you know, human thing and that came. It came back up to me later on that night, last night, um, when I was trying to think of something to say about Jada Pinkett Smith, because they have left us with little left to say about them. Jada Pinkett Smith and her um business partner, will Smith, I guess, is the best, the best way to describe him. Uh, let me get to it.
Speaker 1:So Morgan sent me a what was it? Hollywood reporter article that says Jada Pinkett Smith reveals she and Will Smith have lived separate lives since 2016. I mean, like, uh, that's probably okay, they've lived separate lives their whole lives, whether they realize it or not. But what I want to say about this is I'm sorry, let me get to the bullets. It says she makes the revelation oh, okay, here here, it's all here, all right.
Speaker 1:When I saw the headline, I was just like okay, I mean, I guess, like this is a Hollywood couple, like I just assumed they were business partners and maybe sometimes they sleep together, maybe not. Like maybe sometimes they sleep together with other people, I don't know, but I know Hollywood couples, I know it's a business partnership, like that's what it is and it and it must be protected and it must be expanded. Like those are the rules. Um, of course, I wondered immediately like what is she promoting? Right, I hadn't even really read the story. I was on the phone with Morgan earlier today and I was like Morgan, can you read the story to me? And she got maybe like halfway through it and then I was like, okay, um, can you stop there? What's the status of red table talk? And I said can you look up the status and figure out if that shows off, cause as far as I knew, it's still off the air or off the internet or whatever we want to call it. And I just I just had a sense that like, of course she's selling something.
Speaker 1:The only time, as far as I know, that her conversation about her marriage and her husband makes it to a surface level where I'm able to access it, is when there's a sale tucked into the back of it. I shouldn't even say we talked, I should say I was yammering on Tuesday about how aware I am right now that when something is able to get into the actual focused purview of what I can see and hear and feel there is outside of my family, like outside of my friends, like Justin, who I've known forever, there's always a sale tucked in behind it. There's always a sale in the back. We did our launch party and I met some very nice people Most of the new people that I met before the 20 seconds even were up that our interaction was happening.
Speaker 1:Morgan told me if I'm lying they had tried to sell me like three different things. I can't even remember what because it was something I didn't need. Frequently, when I pick up the phone now for somebody who I've never met before, we can have a 30 minute conversation. We can have an hour long conversation. There's always a sale to make. There's always something I'm being sold. It's an interesting thing to behold and to experience because there is some shit that I need that I will buy. So it's not like I don't want to be sold anything ever. But it makes me wonder are all of these relationships like? Are all of these? It makes me feel so excited about going to that party the other night where not even was nobody trying to sell me anything, like we couldn't even talk. It was just about dancing. It was just about looking good and dancing Like that was the whole. There was nothing to sell except ass. And I'm trying to put together where our brains are supposed to go in a life, in an existence like in the middle of all these mediums, where everything you see is a sale. Like everything you see, there's an up sale. So I knew Jada Pinkett was trying to sell me something. I figured that red table talk was probably coming back and Morgan informs me that it is looking for a home right now, like a network home.
Speaker 1:I see here that she has a memoir and this is something else I would say. I am in the business of storytelling. I have. I'm reading my sister's book Okay, my sister's book. I'm into the second short story. There's probably 10 short stories in the book, something thereabouts, and on Saturday I'm going to interview her here on this show. Just, that's promo, that's a sale.
Speaker 1:So as I read the book, I cannot help but project the people that I know from our life, from our community, the house we grew up in, the aunties we have, the parents we have. There's an aunt Suzette in the book. Rachel's mom is aunt Susan. You know what I mean? I can't. There's a, there's a in the first sentence. Maybe there's like a New York dwelling millennial hipster wearing all black with the sides of his head shaved. Okay, right. So I can't help but project the people I know in real life onto that thing.
Speaker 1:And I don't blame her for like, if that's where the material comes from, it's like of course it does. Your brain is a processor, like it takes in the information and it spits back out Like there's literal, there's mirrors in the back of your eyeballs. Like that's how, that's how it's set up. I do the same thing, except I don't. I know I do the same thing. So when I see somebody like Jada Pinkett Smith and I am aware that being critical of Jada Pinkett Smith can get you in trouble, I'm aware, so, but I'm going to say what I got to say anyway and by it can get you in trouble. For me personally, that just means like five women in my life who I like will say something sassy to me, and that's pretty much it. But that's meaningful to me. I think she's run out of stories to tell, and so we keep getting the same story over and over and over again. And this is like.
Speaker 1:This is why I think for the writer, there are two things that are important. One is like your brain must be creative, and the right by the writer I just mean like modern writer, which is to say, a writer is a is a talker, a writer is an entertainer, a writer is just anyone who has to keep giving new stories out to the world. I think it's important that you have new stories to tell, which means you must have some level of adventure and exploration in your life, because you can't just keep retelling the same story. And you, and like I, also think you must be able to bend and shift, like your. Your gut is your gut. Like what you have, what you have to project against experience is what you have. In some ways it's like chemical, it's biology, but you must be able to like change and bend the refraction of how you experience things. You must be able to. You know, like Michael Pollan's book, how to change your mind. Like you must, with or without substances, be able to like change the way that you can see things, so that you can find new angles to explore and share with people. And I feel like I've been being sold the same. Do you all feel me or are you mad at this? I feel like I've been being sold the same, the same story about the Jada Pinkett Smith Will Smith relationship for like 20 years.
Speaker 1:I'm bored, I'm bored. They look like alien, like they behave like aliens. They have glass in front of their eyes. Their kids do too, and they, okay, like they've been married a long time. Maybe they're in an open relationship, maybe they sleep in different beds, like I don't know, I don't care, it's not interesting. I don't see a whole lot of chemistry when I look at them, which is what makes me engaged with a couple when I want to want, when I, when I want to look at a couple, it's cause I want to see, like how their little energy beams are crunching into each other and making little candy crush blocks. And like I don't see any of that with them. So I'm bored.
Speaker 1:So like what am I? What am I here for? I am here to buy her book, that's it. Like I am here as a customer. My entertainment is irrelevant. Like this is not an interesting headline. It's just not like no and no shape to Morgan for bring. For I mean no. I mean it obviously is content worthy, it's incited something in me, but I'm just like God, I am so bored man and here's how I'm going to tie it back to. We never got to the.
Speaker 1:Why do I feel comfortable being so honest that I feel I almost like it's a rush at this point. I enjoy it. Part of it is because I think some people writers especially with hold honesty because, ah, maybe I'm going to need to work with that person later, maybe I'm going to need a job from that person later. You know, maybe that person could pick me for a show that they have greenlit. I think there's a, there's a corner that we're turning where there's not going to be a Jada Pinkett Smith person 20 years from now, because the famous people with the big profiles won't get to feast on the actual creative people the way that they have.
Speaker 1:For the last like since this whole thing started. Because now we have like I have my own network. It's like right here. It's Instagram. Like I have, I can talk to y'all. Like I can come, I got camera in my face right here. I don't fucking need who's an annoying celebrity Reese Witherspoon to like to hire me and be like not Reese, you guys love Reese, Okay, well then pick somebody different. I don't know. Come on, we can go with Reese.
Speaker 2:We understand, we can go with. Give me a different one.
Speaker 1:Jennifer Aniston. Thank you, okay, I was going to go to her next one. I always pick on her. Okay, I don't need. You know what I'm saying. I don't need, oh, I'll get. I got a better one. What's the dude from Staten Island on?
Speaker 2:Saturday.
Speaker 1:Night Live. I don't need Pete Davidson to like give me a chance for my voice to get out to the world. I can just do it. You can, you can, we can all just do it. We don't. We don't fucking need them. They're not interesting. They're out of creative things to talk about. All they have to talk about is their marriages, and their marriages are boring.
Speaker 1:Like the marriages, the relationships me and Justin were talking about last night the like, the real relationships between people in new marriages, people in new relationships and by new I mean like of the last 20 years like those ones are interesting. Modern relationships, people experimenting with different types of relationships, people actually like following their desires and their kinks out to where they're like. That kind of stuff is interesting. These people are stale Enough. Get out of here. Sorry, that was a. That didn't mean for me to fall. I didn't mean for him to fall. I'm sorry, it's a new setup. I'm just so bored. If we're going to talk about Will Smith, I only want to talk about the slap. That's it. That's it, okay. I'm sorry, I destroyed our whole set and I'm back. I'm just trying to make the point that, like the balance, the power imbalance is. It's getting all fucked up, and by all fucked up I mean it's improving, because it just. It just.
Speaker 1:It occurred to me after the experience of going and trying to sell a show with Spike Lee, getting the door slammed in our face by multiple networks. So I'm like, okay, so like tenure, clout, name recognition, those don't matter. And I went and tried to do the same thing with some people who were hot at this exact moment, got door slammed in my face. Then I went and tried to do some of those same things by myself and sometimes it worked. And I'm like these people are not creative and they're not interesting enough to keep us working for them. So who needs them? All right, seriously, like dead ass. I really, I'm really strong, like I really. There was a time where he's like oh, do you want to go do this meeting with overbrook, I think is the name of Will Smith's company, and you know, oh, this guy works there and this thing happened and that I'm like about what. Do they make anything good? Like has, I'm violating, but like what's y'all's favorite Will Smith movie of the last 15 years?
Speaker 2:Anybody? What's that NFL movie or whatever where he does that terrible accent, concussion stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think this is called concussion.
Speaker 2:It was called concussion.
Speaker 1:Oh, you didn't see it. No Well, I don't even know.
Speaker 2:Okay, but Bel Air is good, though.
Speaker 1:Okay, bel Air is good. I've heard Bel Air is good, but he ain't in it.
Speaker 2:But he no, but I think it's his, I think it's his shit, though.
Speaker 1:It is. It is Okay, well said, enough enough on them. Enough, not too much, all right. So what are you convinced people are pretending to enjoy? So I was on Reddit last night. We were looking for topics. It's always Thursday is always like. It's like we're reaching in the fridge looking for the last of the groceries, basically. So this is what I found on Reddit. I found a list of things that people have been pretending to enjoy. I can't find the list right now while I'm sitting here, because it's going to fuck up the show, but basically, here's some things that came up that I relate to being in loud Bars and restaurants. Loud as in like the music being played loudly. Loud music is for a party. Loud music is for hanging out by yourself. Loud music is not for places where people need to talk to each other. Okay, let's be super real. I mean, this is an easy one, right? Weddings. You guys like weddings, you ladies, you people. Rachel.
Speaker 2:Morgan, please go ahead. I love people finding people that are meant for them, for them to be together, love that the wedding industry can kick rocks.
Speaker 1:Thank you, morgan. I like the party part, like not the ceremony, but like the after part. Yeah, the after part is okay. Okay, took fun Weddings.
Speaker 1:This is my thing with these events where people spend time taking stock of themselves before they show up. For weeks, for months, people practice what they're going to say to people in certain conversations, like practice it in their head. Mostly, some people probably practice it out loud. People who are showing up without someone have something that they are navigating within themselves. People who are showing up with someone new have something that they're navigating within themselves. How will people see this person? How will they see me? How will they see the two of us in tandem? Which people do we want to be around? Which people do we want to avoid? Maybe I'm not alone in this, but I'll just make it personal. These are things that I think about as weddings approach, that I consider Feeling that same way about homecoming.
Speaker 1:To an extent, there's a version of homecoming where I go and I have a blast. There's a version of homecoming where I go and I have 20 vapid conversations and I come back on the plane and I'm like why am I so tired? Why am I so depleted right now? But I'm like you know what. I don't even think people really explore whether or not they like homecoming. I think we say I'm going in the weeds here, but I'm very specifically talking about Morehouse and Spelman homecoming. I know Quincy, who's listening right now. Quincy has always been allergic to empty daps and vapid conversations amongst our AUC community. He's been so against it that it almost has become like I used to think he was being a caricature, I used to think he was doing a thing, but he's stuck to the bit so strongly that I now believe that it's so. There are other people who I really do believe start planning their homecoming journey like three months in advance, because I'm going to lend grace here because, like um, I'm going.
Speaker 1:The normal life in this country is like working at a job you hate eight to ten hours a day, going home, being exhausted, only really having the creative or mental energy left to watch something on TV or YouTube or on your phone, spend a couple minutes maybe with somebody that you're married to or partnered with, or a dog or a child, and then, like, go to sleep and do it again. And homecoming is like it breaks up that monotony with something that feels like a different energy, something that feels closer to like humanity, or love, or kinetic energy, something like. Something like that, like I'm I'm in the same boat. I'm like I'm literally to this exact moment.
Speaker 1:I'm like trying to picture I'm saying like too much, I'm trying to picture a version of myself going down there and, if I'm honest, I'm dissatisfied with the actual experience that I've had at homecoming pretty much every single time. The times when I used to enjoy it the most were when I was so blitzed out of my mind that for me to even say that I was enjoying it is like I'm just remembering little flashes of shit that I enjoyed while being like so drunk that I woke up on the RV in the middle of the step show. But in but like now in real life, where I don't really do that, I'm like am I being Debbie Downer right now?
Speaker 2:No, I think. For a lot of people, college is, though, is one of, if not the last time that you get to like be an adult and exist outside of insert late stage capitalism here. Like you can like oh, this class is interesting. I can like kick it with people like I can. It's two o'clock and I can do a fun thing Like. Once you start working, regardless of what your job is, it's like you need the bills to come through, so, even if you have a like creative job, which other people view as like that's so fun, you still have to work like you still have to work.
Speaker 1:Yes, and and like. That's why I don't want to be Debbie Downer here is because I know for many people that is a, it's a break, it's a reprieve, it's vacation from the monotony. It's made it's vacation also from white people and, like Lord knows, like we all need it. We all fucking need it. What was I even talking about? I'm so disoriented on this side of the room, pretend to enjoy. Okay, I was thinking about that today. I was like why are you changing the thing? Maybe I should be like why do you move to a new apartment every year? Like what? Oh, you know what else? Oh, I forgot to put my earrings in. But you, last night with Justin, you know another thing that I know. Maybe you all experienced this too.
Speaker 1:But, like, when I see a new friend an old friend, not a new friend I'm always becoming. I am losing awareness of how much how I look has evolved over time. But when I see an old friend, I see myself through their eyes before I meet up with them. And so I'm negotiating how many fucking like wizard trinkets am I going to wear to this dinner tonight? Because I don't want to like scare my friend and make them think I'm not myself anymore. Does that? Do you all know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 1:Yes, chachki which I think is not just the case for what you wear on your body, but just like who you are when you show up some places. It's like this Chachki that I'm looking at feels like the same Chachki I was looking at when I met her, when she was two or two days. But to the untrained eye, somebody probably thinks you're like a different person. Somebody probably thinks like, oh, chachki like lost herself or she is trying on a new identity or whatever, but it's like, I don't know, it's, the thing in the middle has stayed the same, and it's like all that's really changed probably is how you're allowing other people to relate to you in some ways, like what you're allowing in as opposed to what you're, whatever. What a fucking woo woo show today. I don't know what am I even talking about.
Speaker 2:The woo, woo is like I feel like you're letting them know you actually, versus like letting them know who you were, like not pretending, but like you know there are different acts in your life, like that was a character, but we're doing this now, so welcome, if you want to stick, stick along. Thank you, chachki.
Speaker 1:That's good feedback. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just. I'm a little untethered because of because of where I'm sitting in the room right now. Like the rhythm is off, but it's all right, we're getting somewhere. And also, I'm not going to lie, I was. I learned a lot last night about what people are going through and I shared a lot about what I and other people have been going through. And again, that's the thing Like you can, you can float. I can float through a few days of my life without having to have one of those conversations with somebody who really really, like, has seen the long arc in my life and vice versa. But when you do it, definitely I don't know, it's just there's a gravity. That's probably the right thing to say about it, because it's not like it makes you happier or sad. Maybe it does, but like is, there's just a gravity. There's like a grounding element to it that, for me, it like helps me see what's around me and what's in me. God, so woo today, I don't know about this.
Speaker 1:There's a couple other things here on the docket. I'm going to get through them a little bit quickly and then I think we're going to. I am going to ask Chachki to speak in her mic impromptu. I don't know what we're going to talk about yet, but I think I can come up with something by the time we get there. Here's what I got to say man, All right.
Speaker 1:So somebody on Instagram last night I do my questions thing, I like having questions. I was on Instagram, I was doing the Q&A thing and I asked you know, as always, I'm like ask me a question and cause. It creates engagement, it gives me topics for the show, it tells me what people like, what they want, whatever Somebody said, they wanted my point of view on what's going on in Israel right now, and it is one of the few questions I've ever gotten on Instagram where I'm just like I just I don't have a way in here, Like I don't, I don't um, I, Brian asked me one time about the difference between opinions and hot and hot takes. I tried to never come in here with an opinion can be hot, an opinion can be sizzling, but like I tried to never come in here and talk about something that I don't actually feel and when I say feel, I mean that quite literally, which is to say I know I at the time that I got this question, I knew in that moment, I was not educated enough on what was how it was happening.
Speaker 1:To like to reach into a feeling that comes from a like from my body. I didn't have something. I didn't have something to tap into. To be like this is what I feel because the predicament still lived in my head, which is to say it was all intellectual, which is to say I didn't really know. I didn't really understand or know what was going on. So I asked people for you know what? Let me take one further step on that.
Speaker 1:Before I even get to that, it revealed something to me that was I think somebody would judge me for this, that they would be disappointed in me for this which is I didn't know a place on the internet that I trusted to go and get the information on my own, Like as I thought, through outlets that I could go to to seek what I hoped would be objective information here, I couldn't come up with any. So I was like so I posed it back to the person who asked the question. I said can you show me where to go to get educated? And this was a revelation to me that I didn't expect. This is probably the most DMs that I've gotten for anything that I have put on.
Speaker 1:Put on that Q and A thing, I got multiple people sending me to different sources, interviews, their own points of view. I got people from the Middle East like giving me their you know, their own points of views and I learned a lot. I also texted my cousin Trooper, who has worked in public policy, not public policy, who has worked in international policy since I was, since I can remember him working for every democratic what are they called? But when someone comes into office and they're in office with their clique for a while, Election.
Speaker 2:We're winning here, we're really winning.
Speaker 1:Like the reigning clique is called the whatever, I can't think of it. This is bad that I can't think of this word. I'm guys, I'm not. You know what I'm learning from my reading my sister's book? I can't read Like that's what I'm learning.
Speaker 1:Do you ever feel that way when you're reading some shit and you're like I, like my brain, I can't read? Like, um, my cause, this is kind of cool about reading my sister's book. So I'm reading the book and then I have my phone right next to me with G chat open and I can just like it's like I can read the book, while like texting my sister and being like, is this this person, is this this thing? I can't read her, but then she's pointing out to me all these layers of the book that I don't, I can't see, and then I'm like I can't read, like I can't retain information. The internet has destroyed my brain. But um, back to the point. So I just I just was like man first of all, who cares what I think about this? The only part that is easy for me is like I don't like civilians and babies getting blown up. I hate that. Like that's the easy part for me. It's like people who didn't do anything are getting blown up. That's really scary and really sad. Um, now the other stuff I learned more about right Cause I texted with my cousin. I learned from people on Instagram, et cetera, et cetera. I'm still not going to offer a point of view on this, um, until I feel like I understand it enough to feel it. And then I got on the fucking internet and this is going to be a complete departure from this other thing.
Speaker 1:I go on Reddit, nba Reddit. I don't know who said I was faking. I'm on Reddit all day, every day. I don't know why anybody thinks I would be posing about that and or posing like I'm not, but I saw at the top of NBA Reddit a LeBron James tweet. Yes, I mean, I've been clear. You all.
Speaker 1:Lebron is super annoying you all. This is another example of me. I don't. It's like if one day, I'm sitting across from LeBron in a meeting and like we're talking about whether or not he wants me to write some shit with him or work on something. It's like if he's going to be mad that I said he was annoying and he is, that's on him Like that's his problem. So I'm not. I am not here to play the? Um, I don't know, I just don't like, I just I don't like that other thing, I don't like what's that thing? When people are like just being fake, just in case, you know what I mean. Like just being fake just in case later on they might have to like they might need something from somebody, and I'm just being fake. Yeah, I guess that is just being fake. Okay, I told you I can't read. Um, this is what LeBron, let me just get to it. Yeah, strategy. Yeah, I mean, I have a strategy. My strategy is, it's just a different one.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying my strategy is be fired.
Speaker 1:It's all going to work out and burn and burn down every possible relationship.
Speaker 2:No, just kidding.
Speaker 1:That's not my real one, all right. Lebron tweets the devastation in Israel is tragic and unacceptable. The murder and violence against innocent people by Hamas, is that you pronounce it? Hamas is terrorism, hamas, all right, and I feel unsafe even having said their name on here. But, um, this, this is probably maybe this is a problematic point of view. That was annoying to me. Uh, because LeBron, as I have witnessed, has been extremely strategic about when he weighs in on mass violence, wars, uh, child with child labor, like all the shits, all the bad shits. He's been extremely picky and choosy about what he weighs in on and what he doesn't weigh in on.
Speaker 1:And this one let's if I'm just being super real it read as like it's read as politics. This red as like this red is like someone said hey man, you got to tweet something about this shit. And he's like, okay, what is the most innocuous thing that I can tweet without getting shot at? Like not actually shot at, but like without getting reprimanded or, um, criticized or uh being accused of like taking a side on this or whatever. And then it smells of somebody writing out this tweet for him and him pressing the sin button and I'm just like I don't know man, I guess, just like everybody else, like this, I'm about to say something nice about Drake. It's annoying to me when, um, when our famous people ascend to a place where they just don't act like people anymore and they it's like I can still see you, lebron, like I still see you being a weirdo, I still see you being insecure. I still see the person, but you're trying so hard to like hide it behind a veil, versus I'm going to say something about nice, about Drake. I've said a lot of not nice things about Drake lately, but, um, that guy is much more soupy. He's so his feelings are so hurt by Joe button right now and he's like my feelings are hurting, everybody's going to hear about it and I and like there's something that I can respect about the imperfection of that. Like he didn't run to a PR agent and say, is it okay if I put this on my Instagram? He ran to his fucking computer, his phone, and he typed out what he felt and he pressed sin and then he sent Joe button a DM. They sent him a voice memo because his feelings are hurt. He's not a politician, he's an artist. Lebron James is not a politician, it's a business person, he's an athlete, so I just was annoyed by that.
Speaker 1:All right, we're going to talk to Chashkia right now. Are you ready, chashkia? Sure, before I just jump in, is there anything you want to talk about? No, okay, do you even want to talk at all? Sure, Okay, she's Chashkia's. Well, chashkia's my cousin, first cousin. She's here. She lives in Jersey. You all may remember her lady Charday was also here. What was that Like a month ago Thereabouts?
Speaker 1:Yeah that sounds right, chashkia. Let's talk about Shannon. Okay, she has a book out right now called Company, and she's my sister. She's the third leg of our tripod and she's not here, so let's make her here. In spirit, what do you think is Shannon's favorite part about having her book out right now?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I don't know. The easy answer is like her kids with the book is like really cool, like that's really really, really cool, and I think it's maybe just like to see the thing in real time. Like I've never done something like that, but I imagine that it's like really like feelings that are hard to describe is how I would imagine it. But I think Shannon's favorite part about writing is the writing actually. So I don't actually like, of course it's exciting to have a book come out, of course it's exciting to like have people read it and it doesn't hurt to get paid. But, like, I think her favorite part about writing is writing.
Speaker 1:You are well into the book. You're much further than I am into the book because you can read. And have you learned anything about Shannon from reading the book?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think that I the way that I experience Shannon. I don't know how you experience Shannon, but like I get text messages that sound like this book to me, just about like experiences and things that happen, or like the dialogue that we have sometimes when something is going on, like even with the other side of my family, we like tell, we talk about it. So I feel like I sort of knew this lens of her processing. But it's like often, now that she is a mother, we are talking when her children are around. So it's like I don't some of the like raw sentences that you can get in a story she's not gonna stay in front of a five year old, so it's like fun to like be reading them again.
Speaker 1:I have a question. I've started to write down questions that I'm gonna ask her on Sunday, saturday, because I and I don't usually do that for a conversation like this. But Shannon is an intellectual steel trap, right, like if she's, if I. What I want is for people to just see exactly who she is. That's the purpose of an interview, and if she doesn't want that, she can stop that Easily. Yeah, yeah, exactly, she can disable it. What do you? First of all? Who do you think she is? That's the whole question. Yeah, let me just stop.
Speaker 2:Who I think Shannon is yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's take out, I mean like obviously we love her, she's great. Let's take out like things that are intentionally complimentary, but some of them will still be complimentary, so like the way that I've been telling people about the book is I'm like, okay, two things are true.
Speaker 2:Like I love this person separately. This book is brilliant. Like I think that they are separate cells. Like sure, you want people to support your family members, whatever, though, like this is just a really good book, and I think that that's true about the way that Shannon processes the world, like she just is a really interesting person and the way that her brain works is really fascinating.
Speaker 2:I saw or read some quote somewhere, I don't know, attributed to some like old, probably dead white man, but he basically was saying like traveling is like a superfluous thing, like it's not important. People say they want to see the world, but like they don't. They just go to a new place and like get a drink and do the same shit that they always do in every new place they go to. If you really want to see worlds, you read, and I think that I don't know that that's a true take on travel all the time. But I think that Shannon is a very good example of that other thing being true, which is like forced, like the way that she devours information, like her brain is insane.
Speaker 1:Yes, I have started to wait. First I got to respond to that quote because now it's gonna be in my head until I get rid of it. There is something that I I think some people love to see new stimulus. But I think what travel does for some people and I'm one of these people is it just breaks up the cycle, like the routine of what you're living, and it gives you a chance to like talk to yourself, like it gives you a chance to like go in there and like actually see what's in there, as opposed to just being in the mousetrap. So, yes, her mind is insane. We're not just saying that.
Speaker 2:I feel like yeah, no we're I'm not just saying it Like-.
Speaker 1:And I think something that's cool about this is you know, you and I probably felt like that all along, and now, in some new ways, I feel like I'm allowed to actually believe it. You know what I mean, because other people can see it, other people it's being bounced off of and it's not to say other people are the key to the truth. But it's just like now you know you're not crazy for thinking that it's not just cause she's your cousin, it's like and okay enough, that's a complimentary enough. So how do you think? What do you think is like Shannon's voice, like how some of the questions I wrote down here like they're gonna sound broad but they are not. First question on this is what do you think about women? Second question is what do you think about men?
Speaker 1:Because if you read this book, the person has a very distinct point of view on gender. Like that is clear from the book and as I'm reading it, I am I'm sorry this is a long question, I'm giving a take, sorry, but as I'm reading it, I'm like oof, I mean, I'm only two stories in, but I'm like, I'm like, am I? I must be a part of the impression, I must be a part of Shannon's point of view on men and the men in this story are not fire, like I'm, like these things are regular. And I don't mean like regular, like uninteresting, I mean like they're just not. They're like Do they feel true to you? Yeah, they do In a way that is in a way that, like, makes me a little sad. You know, like they are truly. They truly do not have vision, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:They can't see others. I do know what you mean. Yes, yes indeed.
Speaker 1:Okay, you. So what do you think? What do you think she sees Like? What do you think Shannon sees in the world? What do you think she sees in men and women?
Speaker 2:I mean I, yeah, that's like so hard. I feel like I feel like Shannon has a very like specific point of view that, like I said, is very well-informed by other people's points of view, because I think, like African-American, like certain age range, like East Coast, is a very specific viewpoint and that like a certain type of family structure, like it's a very specific viewpoint that I honestly think we get it a lot in a silo of the world that I frequent but I don't actually think in the mainstream that that is like a regularly absorbed viewpoint and especially not in sort of an intergenerational way, which is how company is and also how I hear Shannon processing just in general, partially because so much of her life is influenced by, like her immediate family members, which are people in a generation above her, and also now her children. So there's like an intergenerational aspect of that. I don't know how she like I guess I'm biased I feel like she sees people in a way that feels true to me, but I don't.
Speaker 1:I also which is how.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think men are like a little mid. I don't want that to be true. Like I personally oftentimes have conversations or have had interactions where once people really talk to me, they like have thought that I like am a mis-indistinent, hate men or something. And then they actually talk to me and I'm like no, I actually love men. I want better for them. Like I don't want there to be glass in front of everybody's eyes, like I don't want people to not be able to like say the true thing, like I just want it to be different because it will be better for them and for everyone who has to interact with them.
Speaker 2:And I see that in this of like, just so you, if men read this, like you can see yourself and then maybe like don't like, maybe like be better, like, and I think also the true thing is like that we don't leave a lot of room sometimes for men to do that. So I don't want to say it in a way that's like too pejorative, like I see the cycle, I know why it's like that, and I think that women end up doing a lot of sort of like picking up of the pieces where sometimes I'm like just leave the shit broken on the floor Like he broke it, just leave it. But then no one wants women to do that. So then when that does happen, it's like, oh, she knew she should have. Da, da, da, da, da.
Speaker 2:All that starts and I think that that's represented here. But I think it's like true and honest and I think a lot of the perspectives are like, because of the way that the book is written, you see people from multiple vantage points and so it does give grace to the fact that we're all like just trying to make it work and that there are like other, that there are other experiences of the way that people can have like this sort of like range of men and women, but also like the way that masculinity or femininity or people that are non-binary, like the way that that sort of floats and the way that your family exists informs what that looks like for you. So there are stories. I don't wanna like spoil, but everyone should read it truly.
Speaker 1:What else do you wanna talk about? What's been on your mind lately, rachel? We got, we're gonna we have five minutes and then I gotta do some. I gotta talk about some other stuff.
Speaker 2:What's been on my?
Speaker 1:mind, spit it out, whatever it is, anything.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I'm off from work this week. It's great. I love not working oh.
Speaker 1:I got a question for you. Okay, you recently moved here from DC. True, you live in Jersey, bet you also spend a lot of time in the city. Yes, what is the difference between? What are some of the notable differences between how people relate to each other in DC and how people relate to each other here?
Speaker 2:I am an inside the house girly and so I don't what I remember about when I was first moved to DC, which was in my early 20s, was people. It's like a sort of like networking heavy place, but that's because half of the people literally work on the hill, Like they're in politics or they're in consulting and I don't know what. Like my experience in New York and this part of my life in New Jersey and this part of my life has been very different, because I'm in a relationship, I work super long hours and that's just not what my life looked like the last time I was like outside. So I don't really know like to have a fair comparison, but I'm into it. I went to Central Park yesterday. There's a big reservoir in the middle of it which I knew from Google Maps but had never seen. Like that was tight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. It's good, I like it. I like both places. I like DC better, but Really why? So it's like a little smaller. I'm into that, I, yeah, I like the size, I like that it's a city but is a smaller city and just like weird shit happens in New York. Like, just like. Like it happens other places too, but like all the like smoke, smog from the fires, like that was happening in DC, but I feel like it was happening with a capital H here, Like it's just a lot.
Speaker 1:Yes yes, new York city. It's just a lot there it is. Thank you, rachel. All right, q and A from Instagram. Quickly, I'm going to do this in seven minutes.
Speaker 1:Someone asked me Hillary asked me what five writers have most influenced your writing style and how. So the first one that I came up with. I tried I really do try to answer these questions honestly, like somebody asked me the other day what superpower would I want, and it would have been easy to, you know, throw it off like I don't know the X-ray vision or this thing or that thing or whatever, and so I had to think, like what is the thing that would sort of improve my life right now? And the answer that I came up with was, if I wanted to know, I could know what anybody in my life wants from me. Does anybody relate to this? I wouldn't use it on Chachki. I wouldn't because you know what it's kind of sweet I actually like when I think about what it is from Chachki, it's probably something really sweet. It's probably something like very like pink and doughy, like like Jigglypuff, right. But if I use it on some of you niggas, it's something ridiculous, like it's something that I one, it's probably something I don't have, or it's something that is unfair to ask of somebody. Like, as an example, a trade to be made where I give everything and I get nothing back, a connection to someone that I'm not even close to.
Speaker 1:Affirmation on a weird part of your personality you know what I'm saying Like you're looking for someone else to be like alright, here's a dark one, fuck it. You're looking for someone else to think it's really cool that you slept with two different people this week. You're looking for somebody to tell you how dope that is, how manly and cool that is. That's just an example, but y'all know what I mean. People will throw weird parts of their personality at you at weird times to try to get you to be like yeah, that's fire, another shit. I would just like to know. And then, from a selfish place I don't know if it's that selfish. Honestly, I'm hoping that it's not selfish, but I very seriously want to know what some of you all, as people who like my stuff, I want to know what you want so I can give it to you. I'm trying to make this relationship so airtight and easy for us to talk to each other so that it's literally just like here's a bad example, like man, I would really love it if you made a. I would really love it if you made a 10 page booklet on how to get an agent right. I would just do it. If you told me that's what you want, I'll, literally. I'm looking for things to be inspired to make, so tell me what you want. Anyway, coming back to that, there's somebody there, it's a camera Um, what five writers have most influenced your writing style?
Speaker 1:I've used five of my minutes already. Number one I'm not going to go much further on this one, but my sister, my sister, like. I knew her when I was born. She taught me how to write. She taught me how to read. And when I say she taught me, I don't mean she was like this is how you do. She did have to help me with my homework a lot, but I mean, like watching her love writing and reading made me see the value in those things. She didn't even make me love reading, because I don't love reading, but it made me see this is how. Oh, it's like Shannon won't listen to you. Write it down Like she'll read it, like she will read. She will read all day. So if you can write something that's compelling, you can reach somebody like her.
Speaker 1:So from her, um, my sister is down to I, I I baited my sister this morning. Last night I told her, you know, I said I went to dinner and blah, blah, blah. This morning I G chatted her like I never talked to my sister before nine AM ever. I G chatted her at like 757 and I was like, um, I just like dangled something juicy from last night and she called me which she never does before nine o'clock because you're getting the babies ready for their life. And I was just like you are so predictable, like you, if there's juicy gossip available, like you will bite every single fucking time. So, but what? What that means to me, like what I learned from her, is human dynamics are something that I will talk about ad nauseam. Like as far as someone is willing to go. I am willing to talk about what makes people tick and I am willing to write about it and I'm willing to explore it and that's that's my writing. Next person was Christopher Nolan.
Speaker 1:I hate superhero movies. They are so dumb and fake. I hate fake stuff like that. Um, I hate Pepsi commercials. I don't like anything that doesn't feel real. I don't like it. Real stuff feels the best. Um, I don't like anything that feels like stepped on crack. I don't like anything that feels like it has impurities in it. Um, I don't like. Obviously, I like some things that are fake, but, as far as entertainment is concerned, I like music, I like artists, I like movies, I like books that feel real. Shannon's book is fiction, but it feels real. The people are real as fuck, to the point where I can't unsee who they are to me in my own life, right, and who I am in them in some of them. Um, that is to say, I do not like Superman, I don't like, uh, the Avengers. God, I can't believe y'all watched that.
Speaker 2:I am, I love that shit, I love it, I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:I'm like Love it too. I can't believe y'all want. I'm sorry, it's not no offense to anyone in this room but.
Speaker 2:But that's why I love it, though the reasons you hate it is why I love it.
Speaker 1:And I understand. Like I just Just let me just do this. I just I can't believe, like I can't believe. I can't believe y'all like LeBron. I can't believe it. I'm like it reminds me every time like we are different from each other. Like y'all like that shit, y'all like Y'all like being lied to. You really Like you love it. Like you can't get in.
Speaker 1:What did uh fucking Black Dot say in his shit? How much hypocrisy can people possibly adore? Like you all, you guys love it. You love it. You will, you will, you will have as much of it as is available.
Speaker 1:I cannot believe y'all like LeBron. It's wild. It's wild as shit to me. He didn't make it a little. I'm gonna leave him. I'm gonna leave him. I mean, he doesn't Like, he can't hear me. You know what I'm saying. Like if he sees me outside, he can fucking squash me like a bug. But I just like it's not the person himself, because I know that the person in there is doper than the thing y'all are connecting to. It's so processed and manufactured. I can't believe y'all like that. That's crazy. Um, that's what I mean when I say I don't like superheroes. I'm getting to Christopher Nolan. Now.
Speaker 1:What I love, what I cannot get enough of are the Dark Knight Trilogy, batman series, because it has all the cool shit about a superhero world which is like it gives you separation from real life, right, it gives you somewhere to go. That's not here, and sometimes we need vacation. But it never stops being human. Like Batman, never fucking. Like His ears don't start flapping and he flies away. You know what I'm saying. Like or Batman, never. Like, all of a sudden his eyes can just put lasers through the wall. Like, and nobody in the whole joint can do none of that stuff, and I love that. Like Mr Freeze, he can freeze you. He's got a freeze machine. He does it with his machine. It's not his fingertips, actually, sometimes it's his fingertips. But the point that I'm making is like those movies are real, they're still real life and the messages from those movies.
Speaker 1:What I love about Christopher Nolan is it's very easy, I think artistically, to get in your own head about. Does my voice matter enough to say something big? Do you know what I'm saying? Does my voice matter enough to say something that actually Is a universal concept? Or do I need to say stay so small and tight to my little corner of the world Because it can feel like it's easy for people to look ridiculous, like Kanye does it all the time. It's like dog, you're trying to say something super deep and you're just missing, and so like you just sound like an asshole. But Christopher Nolan is able to take big universal swings without, in my opinion, without ever like losing grip of like the small and tight. So I'm over talking this, but I'm really enjoying this. I should have started here, josh. Can I get five more minutes? Okay, three, who was number three?
Speaker 2:Roxane Gay.
Speaker 1:Okay, roxane Gay. So I believe I've read three Roxane Gay books Hunger, bad Feminist. What's the third book that I've read? Somebody help me, I don't know. Let's just stay with these two. Um, before I started writing my book, I read actually before I started writing my book, black Magic. I read Bad Feminist Before I started writing my new book, which I just I'm almost done with.
Speaker 1:I've read Hunger, like the reason why I like being an author, being a writer, like specifically authorially and in this medium. This is so much cooler than screenwriting, this is so much cooler than writing for somebody else to say something like. The point is for us to connect to each other as we like. The point is for, like one human being as they are to reach another human being as they are, and then they're two little spirits go like this. And when I read Roxane Gay's writing, I'm like the person is right here. She's like sitting right in this room with me and she's not selling it, she's not gassing it up, it's not a superhero movie, she's just like. She's just, she's literally just telling me what happened and she's telling me it in a way that still has her point of view in it. It still has her own like tone projected through it. But she's handing it to me as like raw meat so that I like there's no, um, what are those things called no preservatives? It's just right here on the plate. It's like when I make, when I boil bone broth in the house, uh, when I take steak out of a package, like Penny just starts bugging out Like it's.
Speaker 1:She's just like she does things she's not allowed to do. She tries to get up on the counter. She's just like she can't stop because the smell of something that's just raw and that has all of its shit still in it. She's like she's an animal. She's like I know I need that. That's good for me. Like, give me that. That's how I feel about Roxane Gay's writing.
Speaker 1:She's brave. She tells you what the fuck happened In my new book. Talk about, uh, an old white guy in my old neighborhood doing something bad to me, and she's the person who made me realize you can actually write that and publish that Like you. Like he's not going to find you, he's not going to sue you. He's somewhere in a corner like cowering, scared because he knows what he did. And go read hunger. Get to the last chat. You can literally just skip to the last chapter and just read that and you'll know exactly what the fuck I'm talking about. Like, she shows me the power of writing in a way that is like bold and fearless. Okay, moving on. Um, who was for?
Speaker 2:Stephen King.
Speaker 1:Stephen King. I've only read one Stephen King book. Actually, there's a lot. I read Cujo like 20 years ago, but my sister recommended for me to read the book on writing by Stephen King. That's the book to read if you want to write. It is well written, it is a fun ride and he is both telling you and demonstrating to you how to write good. If you can't read, it's perfect for you. If you're like me, if you can't read, it's perfect. You will be able to read it. And he's just like.
Speaker 1:There's a, there's a term Tell it. Don't sell it in writing, just just tell somebody what's good. He tells you all the important shit. Use the vocabulary you have. Don't try to use a fancy word to say something. That's a simple concept. Just say exactly what it is. He does it phenomenally and he does it like he's on Coke and it has an energy about it. And he used to be on Coke and it's just like it, just it, just um.
Speaker 1:The lesson that I learned from Stephen King is like once you find the momentum on the ride, just keep them on the ride, stay on the ride. Don't break the flow state, just go, go, go, go go. You don't ever have to like pull out of it and you can pull. You can pull back to give people a breather, but you don't ever have to pull out of it to like do commentary on yourself or on your own writing, just go, just like, just go.
Speaker 1:Last person, I know this one. This is a little Wayne Um. This is the person in my life, probably most of anyone, who I've ever wanted to be like he and a large part of it is large part of his like how he carries himself and like, in weird ways, how he looks, like how he, how he um, has been able to kind of like float through hip hop without ever feeling weighed down by hip hop. In my opinion, like I've never seen little Wayne appear affected by the conversation around like who's the best? Right, he just came out. He's like I'm the best and I don't. He doesn't feel like he's done a whole lot of maneuvering or navigating. Um, I've never, I will never, expect to see little Wayne arguing with Joe budding. That's the example I should give here. He knows who he is and he feels good about it, and sometimes he probably feels bad about it, but like he's like it doesn't seem like he's taking it too seriously.
Speaker 1:But the point of the thing with the writing is he is willing. He knows he is a phenomenal rapper. He has always known that since he was a little kid. He knows he has more hours put in than everybody else. He knows he can do tricks other people can't do and he gets those tricks off.
Speaker 1:Like, if your mind is powerful, if your mind has horsepower, it's okay to push the throttle to 160 miles per hour, like it. You should do it. Um, if other people can't do it, if other people can't go there with you Shannon is a good example of this Then like that's their problem. Like, let them. Like, let them find something else to read, because if your mind can do it, go there.
Speaker 1:And that is lastly why I do not want to fuck with these celebrities, because their minds can't do it. They just they're slow. They're fucking idiots. I hate them. Okay, um, thank you. This has been nothing but anarchy. And they're slow. I'm sorry. Like some of them are really smart. I'm just be real, be real. They're not. They're imperfect, but like some of them are smartest, fuck. Some of them are sharp as a tack. Those of them, right place, right time. They know it. They're insecure about it, they're scared because of it and they try to slow you down. Well, this has been nothing but anarchy with Chachki with Chachki in studio.
Speaker 1:Uh, we will see you all on Tuesday. You can find us on Spotify, apple podcasts If you're like my sister and you listen to every episode four times, we are there in those places. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. We're going to start using that more frequently. Oh, there's a show. We're going to do an interview with Shannon about her book. Shannon, this is our authorial debut company, available everywhere. It's got all the all the right press and all the right blurbs and all the right authors saying good things about it. It's a, it is excellent writing On Saturday at 1030,. Me and my big sister will be here talking about company. See you guys, all right, adios.
Speaker 2:Pay retention.
