The Show Up Fitness Podcast

How to make $15,000 as a Personal Trainer w/ Poojan & Shah Athletics in PA

• Chris Hitchko, CEO Show Up Fitness

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Poojan's IG - Shahathletics from Lancaster PA.

What does it take to triple your personal training rates and build a six-figure fitness business in just 18 months? Poojan's journey from gym trainer to thriving entrepreneur offers a masterclass in leveling up your fitness career through strategic education, powerful networking, and unwavering persistence.

Starting at just $30 per hour, Poojan now commands $100-120 per session and recently celebrated his most profitable month ever—clearing over $15,000 in June alone. The transformation wasn't magical but methodical, built on a foundation of continuing education that gave him the confidence and skills to solve client problems other trainers couldn't address.

"The only way you can fail is if you quit," Poojan shares, revealing how he overcame the imposter syndrome that plagues so many fitness professionals. By investing in specialized training that taught him advanced assessment techniques and corrective strategies, he positioned himself as a solution provider rather than just another trainer. This expertise allowed him to build relationships with physical therapists, dietitians, and chiropractors who now refer clients to him regularly.

The conversation dives deep into practical business strategies, from systematizing the client acquisition process to reframing limiting beliefs that hold trainers back from charging what they're worth. Poojan sales system—complete with qualification questions and consultation deposits—ensures he only invests time in serious prospects while maintaining an impressive conversion rate.

Perhaps most valuable is the discussion about mindset shifts required for business growth. Rather than asking "how can I make $10K a month?" Poojan learned to invert the question: "what would prevent me from making $10K a month?" This systems-thinking approach, combined with lessons borrowed from other industries and entrepreneurs, accelerated his business development far

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Speaker 1:

Howdy everybody. Today's podcast is with Mr Pujan out of Pennsylvania Really awesome story. You will have to excuse some of the background noise because we're at the gym. Client had to be trained with Megan, so I apologize. You will hear some back sound, but the content with this podcast is worth listening to, so enjoy it. Throw it into your story. If you have any questions or want to be on the podcast, make sure to reach out to info at showupfitnesscom. And remember big biceps are better than small ones. And keep showing up. Welcome to the Show Up Fitness Podcast, where great personal trainers are made. We are changing the fitness industry, one qualified trainer at a time, with our in-person and online personal training certification. If you want to become an elite personal trainer, head on over to showupfitnesscom. Also, make sure to check out my book, how to Become a Successful Personal Trainer. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. Have a great day and keep showing up. Howdy everybody. Welcome back to the Show Up Fitness Podcast. Today we are here, round two with Mr Pajon. How are we doing today, buddy?

Speaker 2:

Great, great great. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:

Chris, how's it going for you? Saw you a couple of weeks ago in Miami and you got a pretty cool story going from crunch. Now you're independent for 18 months and you hit your PR the most you've ever made. Let's talk about that. How much did you clear in June, my man?

Speaker 2:

So in June I cleared just a little bit over $15,000, 15,115 to be exact.

Speaker 1:

And that is a man who is owning his books and he knows exactly. It always amazes me when I talk to trainers and I'll ask them how much did you make last month and how many sessions? And actually I don't know. I got to go look, but you know that number because you're looking at that daily as an entrepreneur and you are doing what so many trainers are not able to do, which is turn this into a career, and it's really neat to see 18 months ago, how much were you charging?

Speaker 2:

18 months ago, I was charging $30 an hour.

Speaker 1:

And that's that, I'd almost say, an average rate that most trainers get, because at the time, if you're working at a gym, you may be able to get 25, 35. So 30 an hour. You're taking that whole thing. Your rent is very, very low. You got a great deal there, but now how much are you charging?

Speaker 2:

So back 18 months ago I used to charge $30 an hour. Now I'm up at $100 an hour, and then, for people that just want single sessions, I charged 120 bucks an hour. So it's a big difference from where I started to where I am currently.

Speaker 1:

Three to four times big difference. So let's talk about some of those things that you attribute to that success and continue your education. And we'll talk about our conversation that we had at dinner, because you invested into going to Miami but also you spoiled me to dinner and that was a nice $400 tab. I looked at that. I wasn't going to hold back. You said drink whatever you want to. So I did and we had a great time.

Speaker 2:

I'm glad you did, man. Yeah, so there's a bunch of things that contributed into where I am currently. I do want to say the biggest thing is the continuing education and then getting a solid network in place. So continuing education that gave me more confidence on how to actually assess clients, how to program for them, how to get them out of pain and speak to them in a very professional manner like a medical professional should. It also gave me the skills and the tools to network with other physical therapists. So now I have a doctor of physical therapy on my team, I have two registered dietitians and then I also have a chiropractor, which just referred a client over to me as well. So the whole show fitness certificate. I think it really geared me up for networking with other professionals and then teaching clients how to properly move their body and not be scared of movement, because we believe in movement is medicine. We don't like to fearmonger clients into thinking otherwise.

Speaker 1:

I remember getting a lot of great texts from you post the Atlanta seminar, because you went to that at the latter end of 2024. And you started implementing that stuff right away and your clients would be like, oh my God, my knee pain is gone, my shoulder pain is gone. And so what that does for you is it just levels up your confidence, knowing that I am worth a hundred bucks an hour and I'm worth 120 plus. And so when you gain that experience working with the more advanced techniques, it really just levels you up to have those conversations with those medical professionals.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100%. I think another big thing that I had before and this was like four or five months ago was imposter syndrome, and going to the seminars definitely showed me how much I'm worth and how much I'm valued because a lot of the stuff that trainers are learning from show fitness and their curriculum makes or breaks it. Like people, I have clients coming to me because they know I can get them out of pain and they know that I don't like to fear monger. Like I said earlier, I think that continuing education is one of the best things a trainer can do, investing into his own, his or her own business and leveling up every single way and in their life and their business.

Speaker 1:

Imposter syndrome is something that we're all going to probably experience in some shape or form. I was just doing finishing up a survey for a podcast that's going to be out here soon, and it's roughly 30% of trainers who get certified don't even train, and that's really mind blowing to me. They get a textbook certification and then they're like I literally don't know what I'm doing and they don't have the confidence to go out there and talk to therapists or other trainers. And so maybe they do go to a gym and they're just kind of thrown to the sharks and they have to start training people in 30 minute sessions or 60 minute sessions and then they're given curve balls all the time. Client's going to say you know my neck's hurting or my shoulder's hurting and they don't know what to do. So they just stop any type of upper body movements and do lower body and the client's like, yeah, well, I'm not getting my results, so I'm not going to continue to work with you. So the retention is so low.

Speaker 1:

But great trainers like yourself, they're able to modify within reason and adjust, not any type of joints, but they're able to adjust the programming that's appropriate, but implement the soft tissue and do screens most importantly. So you can, you can refer out if you need to. So that's really scary to hear that. That statistic is one of my new favorite ones. It's like you're getting certified, you spend a couple thousand dollars and you don't even go and pursue your passion, but then you have great stories, like yourself, that you hear trainers. They're going to encounter imposter phenomenon but then they're able to overcome it by leveling themselves up. And so when you go to the seminars if you can reflect on Atlanta and also Miami, because the template was definitely different, but they're very similar and now we're going to be launching our seminar one and seminar two. So I have just an upper body focus and a lower body focus because we're always doing our swifts and leveling up our program. But what were some of the big takeaways that you got from that hands-on learning that you participated in?

Speaker 2:

Oh, my gosh, hands-on learning was the biggest game changer in my business. Hands-on learning was the biggest game changer in my business, one because there are so many different variations to use based on what the client is dealing with. So there's a bunch of exercises that I learned in Miami that I didn't learn in Atlanta, and the number one reason for that is because we can ask questions, because we're in front of other medical professionals and which they know what they're doing. So we can ask them what do we do when a client has knee pain or shoulder pain, when they flex or extend to like a certain degrees, like a certain range of motion? And I think the biggest takeaway is just being able to ask those questions and then self reflecting and then also thinking outside of the box for trainer engagement.

Speaker 2:

So how much attention can you get, where people are looking at you and they will tell themselves like, wow, what is this trainer doing? That looks like a cool exercise, that's very fun and his client is getting a lot of results. So the two main things are being able to ask questions and then learning how to really engage with the client properly and make it super fun for the client as well, because I've seen in my experience, when I make it super fun for the client, everybody around me starts looking and they come and ask me it's like, oh, what exercise was that? I want to try this out, I want to try this. Oh yeah, sure, come, I'll give you a free session and then the rest is history after that.

Speaker 1:

I got to give you a ton of credit because during the breaks you would bring out your laundry list of questions. I have a client who has this, I have a client who has this what would you suggest? And we would just break it down a lot more thoroughly, and so then you could go back implement that when your clients see that it's really, it's an aha moment for them. It's like that's why I'm paying you this, because I am secure, knowing that you can help me. You have the answers, and so many trainers are not able to provide that. And there's a really neat point at the Miami seminar because there's this like a little scene, almost when we were doing some accessory work and you're doing some really cool trainer engagement and there's three lifetime trainers like, oh my God, I want you as my trainer. And so that's another just like leveling up with your confidence that you have trainers that have been doing this for five plus years and they're looking at you saying, wow, that's pretty impressive. I want to learn how to do that stuff too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. That in itself, like one takeaway I got from you was you give us the exercise, you give us the CC, you give us the template, but how can I improve upon it and make it better? How can I make it one step above what it is? And then, if I show that exercise to a different trainer, I tell them make it better, improve upon it, but don't make it a clown. Show right, Keep things nice and safe, make sure it's effective, but always improve on it. That's another takeaway that I did get from the seminar, both Atlanta and Miami.

Speaker 1:

And I know that those that are listening maybe thinking, well, I don't have 800 bucks to invest into a seminar, but that's also not even factoring in flights and hotels and all that fun stuff. What was your mindset behind the cost? Because there's a growth mindset which you have, and there's that victim scarcity mindset where people will say, oh, it's too expensive. And it's really neat to reflect back on your tenure so far, because in the beginning you're charging 30 bucks, you invest in your education, you're spending thousands of dollars and now you're charging a hundred plus. And so you can see the fruits of your labor and investments where that new trainer, or even that trainer who's been struggling for the last couple of years, that get it, that you get over that plateau of 40 K, 50 K, whatever it is. What's your advice for that trainer to invest in themselves and level up?

Speaker 2:

So I love that question because that's something I used to deal with before and I want to say the number one thing that I had to overcome were limiting beliefs. So I broke it down and this is just how I think about it. There is no right or wrong answer. In any type of business, it's only trial and error. That gives you the feedback and then you improve upon the feedback. So if there is no right or wrong means there is no wrong mean you cannot mess up. The only way you can fail is if you quit. So just don't quit, right.

Speaker 2:

If you invest an X amount of money into continuing education and you just don't quit and you just keep going, you just build the grit, keeping persistent, it's gonna pay back eventually. It doesn't matter if it's like a month from now or two years from now. If you just don't quit because you cannot fail, you're going to get the money back regardless, Like you will get a great ROI, and that was the biggest thing that shifted my mentality. It's like, just don't quit. The only way you'll lose is if you quit, Like that's. That's as simply. That's the most simple answer I can give for that question.

Speaker 1:

I respect the hell out of you because you offered to take me to dinner and we went and had a nice time out. But during that conversation roughly two hours, did you get one gold nugget that you can now implement into your business, or your mindset that maybe you didn't have before, which can really spark that future success.

Speaker 2:

Lim limiting beliefs, my man limiting beliefs. So I planned on moving down to Miami in like the next three years and had a few conditions. I wanted X amount in savings. I wanted some X amount from online training, but it kind of made sense because you were just like you started a business up in Pennsylvania. What makes you think you can't start a fitness business in one of the hottest fitness spots in the entire country? Like that is very true. So instead of waiting and waiting, waiting for the right time, stop listening to your limiting beliefs as in, get out of your comfort zone, move to Miami and expand your business there.

Speaker 2:

I think a lot of people and including myself, like I always listen to my limiting beliefs and I knew they were there, but I didn't really know how to get out of it. So when you have a mentor, when you have someone else telling you, it's like hey, you know, stop being a wuss. Like you can, you can go, you can expand your business. Nothing's going to go wrong. The worst case scenario is I'll, if it doesn't work out in Miami, I'll just move back up to Pennsylvania, which, in a business worst case scenario, I'm making about 10 to $15,000 a month. That's worst case scenario. So I think really cutting out those limiting beliefs you've helped me with um over the dinner.

Speaker 1:

As we were choosing with some, some bourbon. I saw your eyes and it was really I could tell. It was a moment for you when I was like, why not 2026, the beginning of the year, so essentially six months versus three years and you were just like, well, that's true, why not? And it's just that extra push that we need because, like you're saying, we don't think we can do it, we're not worthy, we're not good enough, I'm not in good enough shape, I'm not the type of trainer down here, whatever it is.

Speaker 1:

But then when you consult and you have those conversations, you crush those and then it empowers you to get into the next opportunity where the next imposter syndrome is going to pop up, because it will. And then you keep on testing and retesting and you network with other people and you surround yourself with a better team. So you got a great team right now who you're consulting with. Well, you level that up and you have even more trainers and people who you're consulting with. And then each time, it's like there's that next level, there's that next level. It's like playing a game and you want to keep on going to the next level as quickly and efficiently as you can. And when you're asking the right questions, you will, and so I awesome things and I appreciate you taking the time today to chat about this. But I know you have some questions that you wanted to ask me and dive a little deeper into, so let's check some of those off the box.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so before I ask the question, I did want to say the first time I met you in Atlanta, we were talking about my business and I just wanted some business advice. So you were asking me okay, and this was in 2024. So you asked me how much do you plan on making, how much are you projected by the end of 2024? I said around like 60 grand. Well, I cleared 70. Well, I made, I made like 69.8 or something last year. And then you're like okay, cool, what about 2025? And I said probably 100 grand.

Speaker 2:

And the only thing you asked me I'm telling man, it changed my life. I'm not even saying that just for like this podcast or like to really like as sweet nothings, but all you said was like why, probably that just sit right. And I'm like that is very true. Just those two words like that got me thinking the right way and that was a limiting belief I had. It's like probably 100 grand, probably. It's like no, it will be a hundred grand because you put in the work and if you just don't quit, because there's no right or wrong in business and you'll make the a hundred grand and eventually I'll scale it up to seven figures, which is my end goal anyways.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I love that and you have the, the, the mindset to do it, and it's going to need to be able to get you on here when you clear that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, thank you very much. So the question I had for you was in your experience, how important has been your mindset to leveling up your business and just networking with other professionals and getting to the point where you are at the moment?

Speaker 1:

I would say that your network and not me saying this, it's just the famous saying your network is your net worth. Because you go into a room where all these other individuals whether they're therapists, business owners, entrepreneurs you tell them your ideas and then you hear their ideas and you're like whoa, they're thinking significantly bigger than I am. I need to level that up a little bit because I almost sound sheepish when I say that I want to make X and these people are putting the uh, they're putting BHAGs out there that are just insane, and so it kind of levels you up that it's good to say it. And when you constantly have conversations with other people who are in the trenches doing the work, it just levels you up Versus most trainers. What they do they go to an Equinox a lifetime, they clock in, they train, they go home, they go on YouTube and they just kind of fuck around when.

Speaker 1:

When you're constantly around other people and you're having these intellectual conversations and you hear more and more creative, innovative ideas, then you really go. You know why not push the next goal a little further? Why not have these stretch goals? To really challenge myself and make myself uncomfortable, because this goal of making X amount is cool, but I think I could actually go for X plus 25 or 30%, and for those that are listening, I know it's easy to say, well, you're just talking about money, money, money. But ultimately it is a game, and so, when you remember why we got into this is to help people. Well, now you can grow a brand where you bring on better people on your team, and now you're helping more people and with that, finances are going to come in. So it's not always about money, but I like those big mindsets where you're thinking of how can I continue to grow and become better?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, yeah, 100%. And then I also had a question. So I just want to kind of compare and contrast our sales processes, because there are a few people that reached out to me and was asking about the sales process. So I can tell you exactly what I do. I have a.

Speaker 2:

So two places I get leads and prospects from is from the gym that I rent out, and then my website. I have the same personal training application. That's on my website, that's on the gym as well. It's the same thing. And then whenever someone fills that out, it gets sent to me.

Speaker 2:

Then what I do is I call them and then I ask them the discovery questions like what are you struggling with right now, how long have you been dealing with that for, and why do you want a personal trainer? And getting into the goals. And then I go into my BANT questions. So budget, authority, needs and time. Budget can you afford it? Authority Do you have to talk to your spouse? Needs how bad do you want it? And then time when are you looking to start?

Speaker 2:

So if those are qualified and the person says, yes, I can afford this. This is, I can make the decision to pursue personal training, then I have them come in for the consultation. So, and I also charge a $25 deposit, refundable deposit, for the consultation, which I'm going to start charging a hundred bucks for now. So that ensures that they show up, the person shows up on time and we do the assessment and they're already ready to buy. So they're hot leads and they I just have to show them the price, this is the final price, and then they just Venmo me Zelle and credit card and then I onboard them from there. So is that sales process kind of like yours or is yours a little bit different from that?

Speaker 1:

I love it. I think that's great and what's important is it's like make I always use this in the seminars like making pizza. The way I make pizza may be a little different than yours, but it doesn't hurt to try to make the pizza the way I do it and then try out other ones to add to yours to make it more efficient. I like your questionnaire. The only thing I would change kind of like that maybe the verbiage is do you want to work with a personal trainer versus what does success look like working with me as your personal trainer? And so if you just kind of reframe that, then they're thinking okay, I'm going to be working with you and you can even say give a specific timeframe. So what does success look like working with me as your personal trainer six months from now? And so they can really paint that image. And now they're with you six months later. So that's the whole visionary aspect.

Speaker 2:

Okay, do you ask your? Do you ask Bant questions on the phone or before they come in for the consultation? Anything like that I don't.

Speaker 1:

I don't think it's a bad thing to do. If you find that they still show up. That's all right. You want it to be anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes, as long as you can cover everything. You really get their why and then you set clear expectations of what that next step is going to be. That's fine. But if you're closing, you know you have that call and only two out of the 10 are showing up, then maybe you need to to compress and make it a little more efficient. But you just have to look at those numbers and see what's working right now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, gotcha, that's. Yeah, that's sweet because I have a. I mean, I have a hundred percent show up rate because I charged a deposit and after those qualifying questions. But for the past two consultations I've had, there were people that said yes to everything and then they came in. I showed the value. They're like this is amazing. And then when I showed them the price again, I'm like okay, so it's just going to be this much. I take a painful or monthly, how would you like to proceed? They're like oh, I don't want to do it anymore. Like, come on, man, that's not so. That kind of got under my skin, which is why I want to start charging a hundred bucks for the consultation, because that could have been an hour. I would have trained a different client.

Speaker 1:

So what was your objection to that, when they said that?

Speaker 2:

What was my objection to?

Speaker 1:

when they said that they don't want to do anymore.

Speaker 2:

Oh um, I basically no. I just I asked him. I'm like so what makes you want to say that? Was there something in the process that you were uncomfortable with? And they were just like oh no, it's just out of my budget. I just don't want to do it.

Speaker 1:

That's just too. It's like it's like looking at two at bats and you get struck out and you're you're a little frustrated with that. But if you're hitting home runs the other times, it's just two, so I wouldn't put too much weight into it. Now, if it continued to happen, then you might want to reflect and say, okay, maybe it was the, maybe I really didn't hear their goals, maybe they wanted to do more cardio, maybe they did have something they wanted to do and we didn't get to it. So it's always hard to know the exact why unless you get that from them. You know as a to know the exact why, unless you get that from them.

Speaker 1:

As a trainer, I'm always looking to improve my business. I always love to hear why someone doesn't commit to me. When you told me your goals were A, b, c and D, I provided that, but yet you don't want to continue to train. So this is just an open book and I'm always trying to do better and improve. So what would be some suggestions you have for me? I think that would just be a very nonchalant, appropriate question to ask them, because I would be curious. It's like I gave you the solution to get the best shape of your life, to build the physique you want, the confidence you want. And you said no. So it'd be like me bringing money to a financial advisor and I say I got 10 grand. I want to make this into 70 grand in the next couple of years. What should I do? And they provide a solution, I go ah, no, I'm not going to do it.

Speaker 2:

I'll be a little curious on the other side of the table to see why they didn't pull the trigger. And then there's another thing that I also wanted to kind of get your opinion on was are you familiar with systems thinking and then inversion thinking, If you ever heard of those terms?

Speaker 1:

In what respect? Is it a book that you're reading or what?

Speaker 2:

No. So this I got this type of thinking and the mindset from Charlie Morgan. He's very popular on YouTube and he is one of the few people I watch when it comes to business, and that he his videos, have leveled my mindset and thinking up a hundred X. So systems thinking is basically like you have a system in front of you for personal training. There's an input.

Speaker 2:

The input is, for example, you make content, you run ads and you run SEO on your website, and then the process would be someone fills out that personal training application and you ask your qualifying questions, which I said and then the output would be new client and then more revenue, and then on the opposite side there's also what I like to think about is inversion thinking. So instead of what I used to ask myself before was, how can I make 10K a month? Now I ask myself what do I have to do to not make 10K a month? And just kind of flip it like that. Now is that kind of your mindset and thinking when it comes to business and training clients as well.

Speaker 1:

That's again the beauty of business. There's so many different approaches to take and where I'm at in our business, it's more of scaling. And so I guess, like when you do your swift and you look at the fears or your trajectory, and if you don't hit that, the, the input that you, when you sit down and you go over on why it didn't happen, that's going to come to fruition. Now, you know, going through the, the what if it doesn't happen because of the actions? Yeah, I don't think that's anything wrong with that whatsoever. If you've implemented it, it works. Keep on doing it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's pretty, that's like. That's one of the main questions I had to ask you too. So, like the mindset and then the sales process as well. Yeah, I mean, all your advice and all your knowledge has obviously worked. I contribute a lot of that to your teachings and show fitness, but that's really all I had to ask you, my man.

Speaker 1:

One of the books that I read annually is this one. Right here I'm on it again, scaling up, and this is a really great book at looking at why so many businesses don't make it and then the systems that you can implement to make sure that you are making it, because once you get to that million dollars in revenue, 10 million plus in revenue you are one in thousands of companies. Not many are able to do that, and so when you study the companies that are clearing that what they call like the elephants, where they've been around for numerous years and they're the unicorns per se where they're doing almost a billion in revenue, you got to study those companies to see what they're doing and their mindset is. And it's like you were saying earlier you have the right mindset because you're you're gritty and that's you know help, Nick, that I talk about, and so I would just keep on pressing through. Get more ideas and the one thing that can affect your growth not necessarily negatively, but if you only subscribe to one system. So, in the sense of like, okay, I'm gonna learn from Herm, say, and I'm just going to implement all of his stuff you got to get other ideas as well and then, kind of fact check them and so read all of his books. But then, like you're doing right now with the YouTube guy, watch all those.

Speaker 1:

But then also, let's take a look at someone over here. Maybe you go to Reddit or you ask on Facebook has anyone done one of these other mastermind classes with any of these top tier dudes? With any of these top tier dudes? And like, I knew someone who did a grant Cardone class and it was like 20 grand and he was like it wasn't that special, it literally was just, you know, being persistent, and a lot of people don't have that.

Speaker 1:

So if you have that grittiness in you spending thousands on out on someone who is just probably going to tell you that you need to show up more, you could probably save a lot of money and just kind of fact-checking with the different resources. I like going a lot further back too, because with the information today, everyone's just kind of click-baity so it's like, oh, this book over here was released last year. We'll go back to the old school ones from good to great and the e-myth and books that were around 20, 30 years ago, and those companies are still around today. So then you get into those books and you take some gold nuggets and it's definitely very, very valuable to do.

Speaker 2:

So that book you're reading right now, what have you noticed so far that you're doing that other companies are doing differently from you? And then what you're doing differently from them?

Speaker 1:

So, as a startup, you have to bootstrap it, and so bootstrapping means you have to do everything in your power to make it work. And the system that you have in play, they're not probably going to work very well because you're new to it. And so what these books help you with is creating better systems for onboarding people, and we've brought on numerous trainers and instructors, and now I need to reflect back and say, okay, so that was fine at the point, but it could have been better. What systems could I have implemented? What procedures? And that's where you have to respect these big companies like Lifetime and Equinox and Google and so forth, because their onboarding process is very, very clear and thorough.

Speaker 1:

And the more that you can set clear expectations in the beginning, you're going to squash a lot of the problems that you're going to have in the future, because you may like working for a company, but as a startup, you don't have the resources coming in. And that's one of the issues that ShowUp has is we're not backed by a huge company giving us millions of dollars. So I say, pujan, you're going to teach this class and you have a salary of $200,000. You just do really, really good at teaching. You improve that Boom, go do it.

Speaker 1:

When you're a startup, it's like, okay, you have to do it from pretty much no money and you have to be able to get people bought in and get people to perform when they don't have necessarily that carrot immediately. It's going to be. Five years from now is when it's going to start. The fruits of your labor are going to come into fruition, and so there's just a lot of hurdles that are going to present themselves, and if you want to grow a company where you have a team and you're the CEO and you potentially have like a C-suite, you're going to have to go through the processes of creating better systems and onboarding now.

Speaker 2:

So then you don't have to make all those mistakes that we've done. Okay, and how did you go about finding that book like the one you're reading currently, versus other ones? Do you just kind of look online and see what books are best for scaling companies, or do you follow that?

Speaker 1:

author. There's a famous like a hundred books that entrepreneurs should read and I've read them all, and so when you start looking at like, okay, what's next? Then I start going into other industries and one of my clients is a big time exporter importer and one of the things that he helped grow his business to over 50 million was this book and he suggested it for me and he's one of my clients. That's why I love training lawyers and doctors and people who are CEOs, because I learn about their market and see how I can implement it for our market and there's a lot of similarities between the different markets and just how they do it. So that was something I really respected from the Walmart guy.

Speaker 1:

He would go into other stores and it may not be specific to his brand, but he would always take one small thing that was something he could implement for his locations that would make them better.

Speaker 1:

And there was this story where he was walking through one of these locations and all of his team members in C-suite oh this sucked over here, this sucked over here, and they were super negative on the processes that they had. And he said, but did you see what they did on aisle four and how they had this Significantly different than how we're doing it. That's going to make us better. So it's looking at it all from a positive. If I can take one small thing from retail, from restaurants, whatever these different books, professionalism, then I can implement it into my systems and it's going to make me significantly different. Because what most people will do is read all those books and they try to implement the same things that everyone else is doing in our market. But then you have to learn about what the other markets are doing and see if you can implement that in your own no-transcript, just a weird comparison, but I've also noticed like biology plays a big role in business as well.

Speaker 2:

So like, for example, um, natural selection, right, survival of the fittest and adaptation. So the first thing I saw was blockbuster went out of business and they filed for bankruptcy back in 2010 because they didn't adapt to the environment where Netflix did. Netflix got the subscription and I think Blockbuster was just the DVD rentals and all that. And then like homeostasis right, that's just like maintaining internal temperature. So cashflow you want the cashflow coming in. You want to make sure your processes are working properly, because if there's a bottleneck in that process, then everything else will slow down. So you have to make sure that internal temperature, in a sense, is spot on.

Speaker 1:

That's a fascinating story.

Speaker 2:

I was going to say it's a fascinating story with Blockbuster.

Speaker 1:

I love that, because Netflix went to them and they wanted to buy them for like 50 mil and they said no. But there was a huge turning point and you saying it to be able to adapt. And if you're stubborn and you don't adapt, what they did is the CEO at the time of Blockbuster. He thought that actually one of the board members that the whole Netflix stuff wouldn't work, and so what they did I believe it was Carl Icahn I could be wrong with that one, but it was one of these huge investors brought on a CEO of another company and it was 7-Eleven, and at the time, 7-eleven wasn't even doing that well, so they brought him on to double down on the retail stores, so they started putting in more popcorn and stuff. That was just because they were being so stubborn and not adapting to what the future was going to be like, and we saw that a lot with the internet.

Speaker 1:

There's early believers, people who were bought in and people who are still later on to know this isn't going to work, and so those people that didn't adapt you ultimately fail, and so I think that's the best thing you can do is just learn from other businesses. And how was it that Nike was able to propel to the top and become the best, and what did they do differently? And what did Phil have to do when he was new, starting out selling shoes out of his car? And so it's just really neat to learn about these other companies and the struggles that they have, because you can reflect and say you know, I'm having some of those same struggles right now, where I had a goal and I wanted to reach it but I didn't. So how could I implement some systems or bring on the right people? And I think that's a big thing that a lot of new businesses have big problems with is not having the right people in the right places, and I'm a hundred percent guilty of that.

Speaker 1:

We would have great trainers and then I would put them into role of management or hey, you got to now start bringing in business, and that isn't fair, because that person was good at one thing but they're not necessarily gonna be good at another. And so if you at that point, if I would have had no books and mentors who I could have talked to, I could have made a pivot. That would have been a lot more successful and more helpful for that individual and I learned from our trainers and instructors and mentors all the time. But what can you do for your team to set them up for success? And that's always a question you should be asking.

Speaker 1:

And, as the owner and the CEO, there's going to be times when you have to make hard decisions that people may not agree with, but you have to keep on looking big picture and what is the vision? What are we trying to do? And the fact that we made it online right now. That's okay, but you still want people to be successful, but you have to get back to them, getting in the trenches and doing what you have to do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. Okay. And then piggybacking of what you said about adapting to the market. And then you had some limitations with hiring different trainers and like different management roles. So where do you see AI playing into effect in the next five to 10 years, and per in the personal training industry, to be specific? And then how do you see that in your business as well?

Speaker 1:

It's just going to make things more efficient. It's never. I don't think it's a threat. It's a threat to trainers who learn from a textbook, and that's it, because you're not great at making programs and AI can make the same program you're doing, but they can do it more efficiently. And so if you can just prompt and optimize how you communicate with your AI to optimize your business, it's just going to make you run so much faster and more efficiently. Using that Nike analogy 50 years ago they were running in different shoes and so now what they learned is okay, we can use technology to better the shoes and better the program and the process and the product, and that's exactly what trainers need to do. How can I use technology to make my life easier? So whether, if it's going to be onboarding and who knows what the system will look like a year from now maybe there's going to be an ability for you to talk into a mic and they get voice recognition and you have a bot that's able to do your inquiry in the beginning I don't know. There's so many different things that you can use that. Free up more time for yourself, and that's exactly what AI is going to do.

Speaker 1:

Trainers are never going to be replaced because of the personality and the people skills that are involved. You can't go in and you can take my brain and put it into a microsystem or whatever and have a screen, teach all these people the best training and programming in the world from my brain, but they don't have the experience with the people. And I was talking to one of my mentors and it was about during COVID. He's like Chris, when was the last time you went to a concert that you loved? And we had a conversation about going to a concert in person. He said how often do you watch concerts at home? I'm like, not very much, because the experience isn't there. And that's the same with personal training. People are going to trainers for the experience. They like us, they like us as a human. They have their worries and their stressors where they can go to you and communicate, and so that's something that's not going to ever be replaced by AI. It's just going to help expedite the process to clean up our faulty human ways.

Speaker 2:

I love that you said that, because there's also one of the things that I thought of was from what I learned from the seminar was the soft tissue mobilizations? Right, you need someone else to do that for you. Ai can't do that for you. So first thing I thought and I asked myself, like, can AI replace me? If I can AI replace a qualified, successful personal trainer, especially when they know certain things like soft tissue mobilizations? No, you need human contact and physical touch for that, and I think that's what any business wants, because if we can free up our time, then we have more time to spend working on our business instead of in our business.

Speaker 1:

And something that you're doing that most trainers aren't, which we highly suggest, is you build that partnership with other therapists and chiros and so forth.

Speaker 1:

What AI will do is make that process easier.

Speaker 1:

So everything that you had to do to get your two RDs, your DPT, the Cairo you can probably have a conversation with chat, gpt, ai and optimize the search in your areas with the credentials of people who you like, and then they're going to be able to spit out okay, here are 20 better connections that you can implement, whereas before, like right now, you might be reaching out to a hundred therapists.

Speaker 1:

You got to go in. You got to see if they're good, if they're just using bands, if they're doing outdated traction and ice and ultrasound and stuff that you just wasted seven hours of that day trying to connect with someone significantly faster, ultimately broadening your skills as the professional, because trainers shouldn't be a jack of all trades. They should be really, really good at training. But then you have people on your team that you can refer out to. We can do a lot, but I want to be able to be confident with my client in front of you, saying that I can get you out of pain, I can help you get in the best shape of your life, sports whatever. If something comes up and I can't help you, I have the best team and that's what's really, really valuable and trainers don't have that. So if you continue to parlay on those skills, building your network, you're going to be literally one out of a million.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well said, chris, 100% I agree with everything you just said. Is there anything? Are there any specific AI apps that you use, apart from chat, gpt, that are suitable for the personal training industry that you know of at the moment?

Speaker 1:

Right, now my main hat that I'm wearing is marketing and optimizing our ads, and so I'm talking a lot with meta experts and people who are teaching us how to optimize Facebook ads, and so that's where my limited skill set is currently in. I'm sure there's a lot of stuff out there from a programming standpoint in systems. I'm just not too aware of them. I just use ChatGPT and I'm trying to really master the backend stuff so that we can be up there when people type in how to become a trainer and then they start using their head and they go. You know what? Reading a textbook isn't going to do much for me, but unfortunately today that's what most trainers still think Get your NASM, your ASI, issa, and that's going to prepare them for success. As we know, it's not going to happen. So you need that hands-on learning, and so when you can really fine tune that product and become more ubiquitous, that's how you can become really scalable and deadly.

Speaker 2:

Awesome, chris. I actually I have a client coming in here in like 20, 30 minutes, so I do have to get going. But yeah, thank you again for having me on the podcast. That was every time I speak to you, man, I always learn something new. I always go back with some nuggets of wisdom and things I can implement right away. So appreciate you having me on my man.

Speaker 1:

All right, buddy, I want to see 25 soon. Have a good one, keep showing up Yep, take care.