The Show Up Fitness Podcast

Ep. 365 How to build an Online PT business w/ SUF-CPT & Hybrid Coach Caleb Tomasin

• Chris Hitchko, CEO Show Up Fitness • Season 3 • Episode 365

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  • From Rugby at Cal to Online SUF-CPT: Coach Caleb: caleb_tomasin 

You don’t need a massive following to build a real coaching business. You need fundamentals, live feedback, and the courage to ship imperfect work. We sit down with Caleb to unpack how hands-on experience at a performance gym evolved into a focused online strength and conditioning model, especially for rugby athletes, and why simple systems beat flashy tactics when the goal is results.

We walk through what credible programming actually looks like: a warm-up that matters, strength blocks that pair main lifts with explosive work, accessories that build resilience, and conditioning that respects the sport using zone two and interval days off-feet. Caleb breaks down his onboarding process—from fit and expectations to payment, setup, and rapid delivery—then shows how he tracks sets, reps, RPE, rest, and progress in-app. On nutrition, we start with real life: photo food journals to spot patterns and easy swaps, then macros for those ready to weigh and measure, all designed for adherence over perfection.

The business side echoes the training side: reps build confidence. Free value content grows trust and reach. A single communication channel, midweek check-ins, and Sunday reviews keep clients engaged without chaos. We talk mindset, too—avoiding comparison traps, embracing long timelines, and serving people just a couple steps behind you. If you’ve hesitated to coach online because the space feels loud, this conversation gives you a blueprint rooted in fundamentals, clarity, and action.

If this resonates, follow Caleb on Instagram at @caleb_tomasin, then subscribe, share the show with a coach who needs it, and leave a quick review so more trainers can find these tools.

Want to ask us a question? Email email info@showupfitness.com with the subject line PODCAST QUESTION to get your question answered live on the show!

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Website: https://www.showupfitness.com/
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NASM / ACE / ISSA study guide: https://www.showupfitness.com/collections/nasm

SPEAKER_00:

And you can't compare yourself to other people in that realm because it's it's a it's a spectrum. There's always going to be people infinitely smarter than you, and there's always gonna be people infinitely dumber than you. So as long as you're helping people that are two steps behind you, you're like right in that sweet spot. I love that. It's great advice.

SPEAKER_01:

Speaking of advice, what would that advice be if you could go back and talk to yourself right in the beginning? Or maybe that coach who is thinking about becoming a trainer and they're hesitant because they look at the online space and it's just overwhelming. There's people with millions of followers, they're narcissistic, they're on trend, who knows? And what would that advice be? Welcome to the Show Up Fitness Podcast, where great personal trainers are made. We are changing the fitness industry one qualified trainer at a time with our in-person and online personal training certification. If you want to become an elite personal trainer, head on over to showupfitness.com. Also make sure to check out my book, How to Become a Successful Personal Trainer. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review. Have a great day and keep showing up. Howdy, y'all. Welcome back to the Show Up Fitness podcast. We got this young hunk, Mr. Caleb, in front of us today. How are we doing, sir? Yeah, thank you, Chris. Doing well. Congrats on the milestone 6,500 followers today on Instagram.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, sir. Yeah, huge.

SPEAKER_01:

And you are doing some big things from rugby and online training, hybrid. And I just love your story because how'd you come across show up? Let's talk, let's start there, and then we'll kind of talk about your background and then what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. So when I was doing my undergrad at University of California, Berkeley, I was, you know, obviously really into the strength and conditioning world. They don't necessarily offer a field of study that way at the school, but I wanted to pursue it in my own time. So I was looking to get my certification, maybe do a little part-time work at school. And I was looking up NASM, ACE, you know, all those standard certifications, and they didn't really align with my values. And then I saw that you guys had study guides and I was like, oh, this might be great, you know, nationally accredited program, but I could get the, you know, do it on the on the speed. And then I saw you guys were offering a mentorship and I was like, oh, this is exactly what I'm looking for in terms of my values and my and my learning style.

SPEAKER_01:

You were one of our first hundred CPTs, and it and there's something special, and I just I relate to strength and conditioning because that's my background. I wasn't a badass athlete like you are, but when you go through these textbooks, you're just like, oh, this is kind of horseshit. And you can pretty quickly realize that this isn't going to help me become a trainer. Whereas I get a lot of people who reach out, like, oh, you know, I'm going to read this 800 pages. This is the gold standard. And I'm like, according to who? Like, who actually told you that? Because anyone in the sports and conditioning world, anyone from academia, they realize that this is not the path you should be going. You need to get into a course where it's fundamentals of movement, overload, movement patterns, how to program, how to help your clients if they have pain, whether if it's an athlete or someone who's 70, you got to understand the human body. And most importantly, being able to ask questions. I mean, you were a rock star, you were constantly on the calls. And I wanted to talk a little bit about the misconception some people have. They perceive that online is like just a video that pops up and you're going at your own pace, which yeah, it is. But when you have the live calls, you know, it's just like right now, we're talking and I can show you movements and you can add, you know, why did you do that? And it's it's a full-blown conversation, it's just in 2D. It's pretty much the same thing. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Having that hands-on experience and being able to ask a question when it comes to mind versus writing an email in or submitting it to some forum. I mean, it's it's invaluable. You can't really put a price on that.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think the learning curve comes where you can't ask these big associations or, as I say, marketing companies, questions about what you're thinking. So, what you do is you go to Reddit, you go to Facebook, and you have some avatar give you an answer. And it could be 25 different answers, and you're like, Well, shit, I don't, I guess this person must know what they're talking about because they said it confidently, or maybe you go to YouTube or you go to Instagram, someone has a bunch of followers, and you associate followers with credibility. And as you know, it couldn't be further from the truth.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. I mean, oftentimes it's the people that don't know any, like don't have any uh social credit, as we say, are the ones that actually know the most, right? They're the ones that are just keeping their mouth shut. I love it.

SPEAKER_01:

And so then you move down to SoCal and you have some ambitions of being a hybrid coach where you want to do some online and you're doing that right now. Want to talk about the programming that you offer for there, but then you want to get it to maybe an OC lifetime. And we're gonna be at that seminar on the 5th and 6th of December. So we'll definitely connect there. And when you go to the seminars, it's pretty much a job interview. We connect you with management and lifetime and equinox. They love SUF CPTs. That's why you know we're the number one provider for these elite gyms, and that's where you can ultimately make the most. You could easily clear$100,000 out of Equinox or Lifetime, especially because you're not the average trainer. And so let's talk about your hybrid style that you're offering, how many clients you have, and what's that all about?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So after my graduation at Cal, I did a graduate down in the University of San Diego. Um during that time, I was able to very fortunate to get employment at a local gym in North County, San Diego called Proteus Athletic Club. And they're a very athletic-based, strength and conditioning focused gym that specializes with rugby development. So it worked hand in hand with my rugby career aspirations and also my just outside of rugby career aspirations being in the strength and conditioning field and personal training world. So I was able to do that and very fortunate for my time. And then now, since I stepped away from that job, I've been able to take the knowledge that I've gained there and apply it to the online space, which I really do believe is missing that individualized, one-on-one, tailored SNC program, particularly for rugby athletes. That's that's my main specialty being that's who I am, that's what I've done. But as we know, there's nothing that's sports specific inside the weight room. The only thing that's sports specific is what you actually do on the field. So being the principles that we learn on the rugby pitch, on the football field, on the basketball court are can be applied, you know, across the spectrum.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's it's just crazy to me how many trainers come into this industry and they're they say, I want to be an online coach. And they did exactly the opposite of what you did, where you gained 18 months of hands-on learning under the right supervision from a professional who's been doing it, and they can give you feedback and they can say, Well, you know, Caleb, why are you doing this? Or maybe try this out. You implement it 18 months, your confidence just blows through the roof. And now you have an amazing product that you go out there and you implement it, and you're gonna be able to help people significantly faster from the trainer who just gets a simple textbook cert and says, Oh, I'm an online coach. It's like, Are you really? How the fuck are you an online coach? What does that even mean?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I think the barrier to entry into this field in general is just so low, and that's why it gets kind of scoffed at, you know, when you're at the family reunions, like, oh, what are you doing for work? You know, I'm a personal trainer. Oh, do you need to go to college for that? It's like, you know, no, unfortunately, because there is no accreditation that's nationally accepted that you know could require somebody to have before they can step into this field and call themselves a personal trainer.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that's also the beauty of it. Where I was just looking at an email I got from ISSA today, and they said, get certified quickly. And any other profession, like that would be looked upon negatively. Like, why would you want to become a doctor quickly? You got to learn this stuff. Whereas you took the path less traveled, which 18 months, people will be like, oh my God, that's so long. But in retrospect, the amount of information you learn versus that coach who it's trial and error with their clients and people who think they're the expert, but they're not. And so then you're gonna literally be in you know, blue ocean strategy right there, no competition because you've done the work, you've gained that career capital. When you look at the quote unquote competition, it's like it's not competition, and you'll be able to come back to that you know family reunion and be like, yeah, okay, laugh at me all you want, but you know, I just cleared you know 14, 15 grand last month and I'm doing big things. And I love what I do most importantly because I looked apart, I talked the part, and I know the part.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the thing, right? Like the fact that you get to go help people achieve their health goals, you know, with a with a jacket and some sweatpants on is pretty phenomenal. Um, and I mean not that that takes away from the professionalism of it, but that's just the nature of it. I think sometimes you go in there with too much of a scholastic or uh people kind of get turned away from it, especially when you're dealing with their biggest problems, right? I mean, as a personal trainer, you're you're someone's almost therapist at some points because to try to think that someone could be emotionally a wreck and physically, you know, on track is is is bullshit. You just can't, you're right. It's all connected. If someone's not performing in work, they're not going to be performing in other aspects of their life. I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

And so take me through maybe like a not a generic, but take me through the process that you currently do with onboarding. And you could you have 10 clients and you're making a couple grand a month doing that. And so what does that process look like? Do you have, you know, like a Zoom call where you start off? Do you have, you know, discovery call? What does that process look like?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So I mean with Zoom call, discovery call, onboarded call, whatever you want to call it, you know, I think the the labeling of it can get a little pragmatic. But I think, so yeah, I bring people on, we just talk about it. Sometimes it's just a conversation. If I don't genuinely believe that they're one in the financial state or two in the physical state for me to help them, right? They're a high school athlete that just wants to chat about what they have going on. Um, I wish I would have had access to somebody like that as a kid. So sometimes we just talk and I say, hey, this is what I think you should do. Just continue lifting with the team, eat as many calories as you can. And if you have some questions, shoot me a DM. Like I'm here to help. Sometimes people come to me with a little bit more of like, I've been struggling with this, I want to lose 30 pounds. I've tried for the last six months and I just don't know what to do or I can't stay motivated, whatever. So then when we get those conversations, then we dive into it a little bit. So, like, what does that actually do for you? Right. Because everybody can say they want to lose 30 pounds, but when it comes to weight loss, as you know, it's very, it's very difficult. Um, gaining muscle, losing weight are not physiologically advantageous to us, right? We want to be in a cave, well fed and warm. So I we just try to talk about it a little bit, like why? Because I don't want someone to work with me and then three weeks later not be motivated still. That's not fun. It's not fun for me, it's not fun for them. So we just talk about it, figure out okay, what the game plan is, how can I actually help you? Then I'd take them through a little bit of a rundown of what my my coaching offer is. And then from there, you know, we we sign the documents, we get payment, and then I usually get things in their folder that day. So they'll get things to do. So habits to review, a checklist to run through, questionnaires to go out, um, to go and fill out. And this just helps me understand where they're at. Are they getting their 10,000 steps a day? Right? Arbitrary number, but uh it tells me if they move or if they don't move. What's their normal eating habits look like? Is it two meals a day? Is it three meals a day? Um, because I think people get in the idea that everything has to be custom. I mean, that for a certain extent, that's true. But I think as long as if you're a good coach that's developed proper systems, you can kind of bucket clients into what their goals are, right? Rob, who wants to go build five pounds of muscle over the next two months, is gonna be pretty similar to you know, Jill, who wants to build muscle over there? There's like there's obviously different ways to skin a cat, but that the end goal is the same. So I just try to get as much information and as good of an idea as possible. So then that way I can figure out which system they're gonna fit best in and then tailor the exercises or the equipment to what they have access to.

SPEAKER_01:

And so when they get the program, you said you put it in a folder. What are you using to help organize that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so a lot of my I use a superset app, shout out them. They're they're a great arising company. One of the founders is from my hometown. So we've been in. Aren't they out of New York? Yeah, yeah, out of New York. Um, Noah Krakenel, a great guy. And we've been in contact, awesome, because you get to go on FaceTime or Zoom with the founders anytime there's issues and stuff. Um, so we're working to make it more strength and conditioning focused. And then Google Drive has been the big asset for me. Uh, I've tried other apps and I think there's a few great ones out there. But what I've found is I like to work with professionals, whether it's a professional in the academy scene or in the university scene who's aspiring to become a professional athlete or a professional who owns a business and wants to lose weight or gain some muscle, feel more confident, whatever that is. And so it's really easy just to use Google Drive because everyone is familiar with it.

SPEAKER_01:

So do you have videos that you send them out? It sounds like the population you're working with is fairly similar or not similar, but um familiar with the exercise in the gym. Do you send, like, okay, here's your A B and you're doing a bench press, and here's a you know a row, and they have videos they can watch, or what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so it within the app, it makes it really nice on the coach's side. It'll look like a normal Excel spreadsheet, which most strength and conditioning coaches love, right? Uh very type A. So it'll be like A1, A2, right? You superset them, and then there'll be a little video in the right hand corner they can press with like notes for the exercises. Um is that supersets? No, supersets, but you could upload your own if you'd like. Yeah. And what do you what have you found to be your style? Do you like your own videos or do you just use theirs? Um, right now I'm just using what I have stock, uh, their videos. I think they have a really good foot video library. You know, as the company grows and as I get a little bit more time at home to to film myself, then definitely plan on uploading my own.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm trying to look through the the veil of ignorance. So the person who is trying to develop their online stuff, they get kind of that analysis by paralysis, paralysis by analysis, whatever the hell it is. And they're thinking, okay, well, okay, the great, here's this app, but what about payments? What about you said documents? Okay, what documents are those? Well, what happens if uh they don't pay me on time? So can you kind of break down uh the the working parts within whether if it's superset or the other processes that you have?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. So I mean I'll use another um another company like DocuSign or Bold Sign or Panda, whatever online document sign, right? To protect myself, protect them, make sure that we're both committed to the plan. Um so we'll get that done on the call. We'll take a deposit or the payment on the call as well. Because, like I said, one, nobody wants to waste their time, both parties, right? So if you've been kicking the can down the road and you're actually serious about losing weight now, like you're gonna want to do it. And the the fact of the matter is like humans are transactional, whether we want to agree with it or not. Some people are very upfront about that, some people shy away from it. But the fact is if somebody pays you, you're gonna be more willing to get their shit done. So if I'm on a call and we get we, you know, I get payment, like that day, you're gonna have things ready to go. By the end of the next, by the end of the week and the start of the next week, you're gonna be like fully booked out with your week of plan. And then we do check-ins. So if things aren't going all right, oh, I've got work conferences coming up, or three, I thought I could do four days in the gym, but I really just need three, then we make that tailorization to you.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, how do you know if the client is doing their workouts? Do they send you videos? If they're if you if you program you know three by three at you know 185 pounds, do you know that they have two reps in reserve? So what does that look like from the coaching standpoint?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so within the app, I can put as many fields as I need to. So it'll have like your sets, reps, what your previous week, what you did, all your exercise history and notes. So if I say three by three at 85%, it'll have it nicely mapped out. You just check a box, right? It'll have a three-minute automatic rest period pop up, or you can, you know, set that to however you want. You press the start, enter your weight, enter your reps, enter your RPE, and then you just press your rest when you're done with that set.

SPEAKER_01:

And for those that are listening, you heard him talk about like an A1, A2 in the strength conditioning world. It's very common. It's very similar to how we do our CCA. But when you're training a client in person, I like to add in that you know enjoyment factor. But when you're training, you know, Frank the rugby guy, he doesn't need to do that new exercise or whatever. They just need to get the work done. So you just do A1, A2, and then you go B1, B2, and usually do what three, four rounds of that, or sorry, circuits, or you know, do you have some metabolic conditioning at the end? Take me through what uh a template would look like.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I've you know, a standardized template within within strength and conditioning that I've found really works well. Now you set aside about 10 minutes for the warm-up. So you're gonna get on the air bike, some sort of conditioning modality for three to five minutes. Just get the heart rate up to 65% of your max heart rate, get the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems ready to go, um, get the joints and soft tissues ready to move as well that you're gonna be going through within the rest of the session. So that should take no longer than about 10 minutes, right? If you need additional, you know, foam rolling or you have an acute injury that you need to handle, then that may prolong it. But for the majority of clients, we just need to get the heart rate up and the tissue moving. And then from there, it's gonna be about a 50-minute strength block. So you're gonna have your first A1, A2, usually gonna be some vertical force or horizontal force. So it's gonna be like your squat pattern, right? And I like to superset them with like depth drops, drop uh box jumps, something like that, right? Then if that was your first block, your next block is gonna be your RDLs and your broad jumps, um, your RDLs and your linear bounds, stuff like that. I'm not saying that like contrast training is gonna be the end, is like the greatest thing in the world, but I do feel like it's very time efficient. And for a lot of athletes, they haven't done it before, so it can be quite fun. Um, I I get quite a bit of enjoyment out of it. So I like to do that. But then at the end, we all like to hit, you know, hit the arms, hit the hypertrophy work. So on a lower body day, that might look like long lever Copenhagen planks, might look like calf raises, um, some single leg hip thrusts, some additional exercise and hypertrophy that we can add volume into to create some strength and tolerance in those soft tissues.

SPEAKER_01:

And then what about any conditioning at the end?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I like I'm a big proponent of off-feet conditioning, especially for athletes. Uh they're getting a lot of volume on the pitch. And the best conditioning you're gonna get is actually just game time and practice time. But you know, if you can't tolerate what you're being demanded of in the game, then you gotta get it elsewhere. So off-feet conditioning. So usually it'll look like one aerobic day, one anaerobic day. So an aerobic day may look like 45 minutes at zone two, um, right? About a four, five out of ten intensity if you don't have a heart rate monitor. And then the other day might look like multiple rounds of some assault bike intervals. So you're going as fast as you can for four minutes, and then you're gonna rest for two minutes, you're gonna go fast as you can for four minutes, or we're gonna go 1020s, 2030s, right? There's different modalities depending on where the athlete's at.

SPEAKER_01:

Love it. So the the aerobic day, you build that foundation, the anaerobic day, you really build that peak. And and so it's just you know, generalized, you know, strength conditioning right there. And it's not, I mean, I'm I'm not to downplay it, it's not rocket science. There is a science to it, but when you understand the why behind it, you're not just throwing random fucking exercises in there, you know why you're choosing it. It's great to hear your vocabulary because you're talking about you know, a vertical here, we're doing you know, a hinge over here. It's not just oh, stability ball, squat, curl, press. And I don't really know why I'm doing it. It's just it's a cool exercise. It's the it's the intensity that's really going to get them to where they want to be. Now, with the the 10 clients you're currently working with and the ones that you inspire to build your book with, are you finding that's more you know 50% weight loss, 50% hypertrophy? What's that uh discrepancy look like?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'd say it's about 50% weight loss, um, and 50%, yeah, just brought body recon. I think everybody wants to lose a little bit of weight and everybody wants to build a bit of muscle. I just got one client that's like he's just skin and bone, and he just needs to add muscle. But everyone else, um, yeah, weight loss is a big proponent of athletic performance of everyday life.

SPEAKER_01:

And so for the the clients who want that lose five pounds, gain five pounds, do you have another app that you use for tracking macros or do you do like a tailorized uh meal plan stuff? What do you do for that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so that I have a Google Doc uh or a Google spreadsheet that I've built out. Um one tab on the bottom will be a food journal. So I when someone comes to me like, I want to lose weight, I wanna, you know, build me a meal plan, whatever, like, yeah, I could get your recommendations and what you like and put it into Chat GBT and build you a meal plan, right? That's what most people are gonna do, most coaches are gonna do. But I don't like to do that because if I tell you to eat broccoli, chicken, and rice and you absolutely hate that, you're not gonna stick to it. So the best plan is the one that's actually gonna work for you. So what I do for the first week, prefer preferably two, is I get a food journal. So I just have all my clients take photos of everything that they eat for the first week or two, put it into the spreadsheet. Really, it's really easy for me to see like Monday, meal one, Tuesday, meal two, whatever. I can see it under glance with any notes that they want at the bottom. And then from there, I can look at like about what time they're eating, how many meals they're eating, the portion sizes. And for people that don't want to track calories, right? If you don't want to get the scale out, this is a great alternative. Because then for me as a coach, I can see, okay, you're eating a lot of chicken Alfredo, like not so necessarily bad, but Alfredo sauce has a lot of calories. So maybe let's cut that down. Maybe let's sub that for red sauce and some uh bonsai pasta instead. Increase the fiber, increase the density within the food so we'll be satiated longer and not eat as much. And then from, but if somebody's like, no, I want to dial in my nutrition, I want to weigh the food, I want to learn how to do this. From there, I have another tab that has all the macro breakdown, fats, carbs, proteins, calories, and then their weight about how much they should be eating, right? And it's a guesstimate for the first couple of weeks. You really just got to figure out because there's not a perfect way to get that rest that basal metabolic rate, right? There's not a perfect way to determine how many calories exactly somebody should be eating. So we get an idea with the first two weeks of their food journal. The next week or two, we figure out how much they should be eating in the spreadsheet. And then from there we just keep dialing it in.

SPEAKER_01:

So, how much time does it take for 10 people? Are you going in daily and doing it, or is it like a Sunday night and you're adding stuff? And is it am I checking in with you like this every week, or is it just through that Excel?

SPEAKER_00:

No, so I do two things. Um, all my clients will get response times within 24 hours. Um, you know, the weekends it may be a little longer, but for sure within 24 hours, mostly like eight minutes because I'm on my phone a lot, unfortunately. But so WhatsApp is the line of communication, just keeps it simple, keeps my phone and my and my work life a little bit separate. And then I do Wednesday check-ins, so midweek check-ins, and then I do Sunday like big reviews. So the Wednesday check-ins is like I don't hear from a client in a couple days. I just want to know that I'm still touching base with them, right? They might not be reaching out to me, but I'm reaching out to them. And then the Monday or Sunday reviews will be like the I open up the app and we're gonna look at all the numbers. Okay, are you actually hitting your percentages? What is this looking like? And then if they got nutrition stuff, I'll go in and look at that as well. But at any point, if you're like, hey, Chris, or hey, Caleb, I need uh like I'm not sure about this exercise, or I'm not sure about how much food this is or what's this mean, then I get back to them immediately.

SPEAKER_01:

I know a big complaint with trainers in person, cancellations, clients not being consistent, but with the online, the cancellations obviously isn't gonna be an issue. So, what are some common issues you come across with your clients?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think people biting off more than they chew or they can chew. Uh, I think some people get a little overly ambitious. Oh, I'm you know, uh morale is high. I want to start losing weight, I want to start getting stronger. Okay, what does that look like? How much time can you set aside? Oh, I can set aside five days a week. Okay, so I give you four days a week because I know you're overshooting a little bit, and then week three comes around, and you're like, oh, I'm I I'm you know, the volume or the intensity is is too much. I'm sore, I can't perform. So I think the biggest thing is just under is having the you know, the growth mindset, the long-term mindset when it comes to building muscle, losing weight, that it's gonna be a long journey. Like we can get a lot of work done in three months, but it's really gonna be this is the this is the on-ramp for you establishing the habits that you can take with you after we're done working together or in the future if we do continue to work together. So just having a changing the mindset, I think is the biggest thing. That it's not gonna all be, you know, the goals you want to achieve at year three are not gonna happen in day 90.

SPEAKER_01:

And in business terms, we talk about CAC, CAC. You know what that stands for? I don't. That's client acquisition cost. So if you were to be spending a hundred bucks on ads and you get a client who's paying you 200, then you know you're gonna be ROI 100 bucks. Are you currently doing anything besides kind of beta testing your market to try to get more clients? What's your mindset and approach with trying to get more clients right now?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so my my approach might not be the best for business. Um, I'm trying to provide as much free value to people as possible. So I just think of myself as the 18-year-old high school football players trying to go make a division one sports team. And what I would want to see, you know, I just try to like, okay, does this content align with what would have helped me? And so I just, yeah, when I'm making videos, which is my free marketing, right? I don't have any paid ads. I don't, I don't do any of that. I've spent zero dollars on any marketing, but it's just about getting face in front of camera. Um, just trying to be as authentic as possible while providing enough value for people to kind of take away the principles that I've learned, be able to go out and run a program. And if they don't get the results that they're looking for, then maybe they trust me enough to program for them.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. I'm just doing some numbers right now because the approach you you're talking about business-wise is absolutely correct. You have to provide free content. Now, if you look at your following and you have 200 followers and you get what's a pretty good client penetration, say 2%, that's four clients, but you grow it to 10,000. Now you're looking at 200 people who are interested. So you're you're giving a lot of free stuff and people are recognizing it, but you're growing your brand by providing that free content. And the the most important thing that you're doing is you're doing it, where so many people will just sit back and either strive for perfection or they're in their head. And I always hear that saying, it's like everyone's in their own fucking head. That's why we're alive. That's the beauty of it. But the best thing you can do is fucking act. You have to produce the damn content. If you have a Sunday content day and you make 20 pieces of content, but you don't put it out there, you're wasting time. And action is the most important thing. You got to freaking show up, right? And you're doing it. And how much growth have you seen since you had that spark in your mind? You know what? I want to start doing more. Was there someone who you were following or something that you were, you know, inspiring to financially? Life events. What was that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, a little combination of everything. I mean, I've had drafts from from 2020. Um, I mean, I've had my all my lifts from from high school. I've always been into the video, to the lifting, but I was always scared to post it. Even I, you know, I was hitting good numbers, decent physique. I felt like I was confident in other aspects of my life, but then you get on this social media trap and you're like, oh, people are gonna judge me and whatever. And then the more I've I've seen the world around us shape and shift, like that, you know, there's not a better time than now, right? Yesterday was the best time. Now I was you know the alternative. So uh Alana Marr comes to mind, if you know who she is, the USA uh women's sevens player who was on Dancing with the Stars and built a great personal brand. I mean, she's more marketable than LeBron James and Messi now, believe it or not, which is crazy to think about. And then my brother being on the USA rugby team, in a similar position, but not having the same exposure, right? Because she put reps in for five years without me getting one brand deal, and now she's the most marketable athlete in the world. Um, so that was one thing. I've worked with a couple mentors that have kind of taken me through how to build a personal brand, how to market, how to do some online coaching, and that's been really great. But at the end of the day, it's just like the perfect strength and conditioning program. If you're not actually gonna put the reps in and do it yourself, you could have the perfect plan and it doesn't matter. Um, and then one thing I've learned, I'd say, is people just care, like we care so much about what other people think. We care about how we're gonna be perceived. And as long as you are doing something that's you believe is righteous, right? You believe is going to actually help others and it's not self-fulfilling, right? So the fitness industry can be like what like borderline, like walking that line a little bit because people want to follow someone that's living it, right? Has a good physique, walks the walk and talks the talks. So you don't you want to have that combination of like, I actually am doing what I'm saying I'm doing, but I'm not a narcissist, you know, and it can be it, it can be that line that you're trying to walk on a bit. But I've gotten so many people to reach out to me and be like, hey Caleb, this has helped so much. I really appreciate your content. Way more than I would expect. And I'm sure there's people that talk behind my back, like, oh, what is he doing? Thinks he's an influencer now. But at the end of the day, I say I'm not an influencer because I sell my products, I don't sell others, right? I'm not pushing you to buy anything else. If you want my services, you know, like I'm here. I would love to help you, but I hope to just provide as much free stuff in the meantime as possible.

SPEAKER_01:

I classify the difference between a coach and an influencer, is influencers know their body, and that's it. Coaches know the human body, and that's exactly who you are. You understand movement, you've had injuries yourself, but you have a team that you work with, you've got into the trenches and you practice what you preach, but you're a smart cat and you're not just giving blanket statements. And and that's what should be exciting to the listener is when you master the fundamentals and you go through and you learn this stuff and you spend the time. If we go back to you know three plus years ago when you're going through the course, you were super consistent and you were learning that stuff. And now you may not be as sharp as back then. I don't know, I'm not gonna quiz you on anatomy, but it's it's not like you have to be because you did the work in the beginning, and then the confidence grows and it's compound interest. You're planting your field, and if you want it to grow overnight, that's not gonna happen. And that's a perfect example that you gave with that girl. Girl who you know, she's been able to grow her brand and surpass some of the biggest names in the industry. And it's about having action behind that. But you know, there's proof in the pudding as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Like the you got it. I always say, like, you don't get confidence by shouting affirmations in a year. You build you get it by building an undeniable stack of proof that you say that you are who you say you are, right? So nobody can take that away from you. If you know you've put the time in, the knowledge, and the effort in, nobody can tell you that you're not good enough or you're not smart enough or you shouldn't be doing this. And you can't compare yourself to other people in that realm because it's it's a it's a spectrum. There's always going to be people infinitely smarter than you, and there's always going to be people infinitely dumber than you. So as long as you're helping people that are two steps behind you, you're like right in that sweet spot. I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

It's great advice. Speaking of advice, what would that advice be if you could go back and talk to yourself right in the beginning? Or maybe that coach who is thinking about becoming a trainer and they're hesitant because they look at the online space and it's just overwhelming. There's people with millions of followers, they're narcissistic, they're on trend, who knows? And what would that advice be?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I would say just post. Get the get the first hundred reps out as quickly as possible. Because at the end of the day, it is a numbers game, right? We look at Tiger Woods, now you know his son Charlie Woods, who's going to be probably better than he is because he's getting the quality reps at a young age, right? And early on, no one's going to remember what you'd actually do. What they did a study that you only remember about 10% of what you saw the day before on social media. So, I mean, if you make that 10%, you have multiple days in a row, I guess you're hitting the jackpot.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, it's fun to kind of reflect on because we're all on social media, and then you know, not all of us, but most of us are. And I'm just like you, I'm on my phone a lot, but I can't tell you one specific story yesterday that stood out. It's just kind of this conglomerate, and it's not necessarily good or bad, but it's just that's that's how the brain goes, it's just moving through it. And so imagine if you were to be fearful of creating something that's perfect, not realizing that people are just probably gonna go through it. And you may be thinking, well, that's why I shouldn't do it, is because I'm not gonna get value from it. No, as you just attested to the more you do it, you grow your audience, people will reach out, and you're gonna have way more positive influence than those naysayers. And the naysayers always have a fucking cat in their photo, or they're a NASA trainer, they don't know what the hell they're doing. And so you just got to be consistent and you have to work on yourself physically, and you're you're good, you've got some struggles right now. You got some injuries you're going through. You could allow that to totally throw you off guard, you know, poor me, victim mentality. But you had that growth mindset where it's like, nope, I'm not gonna let this affect my posting. You know, I could have some serious stuff going on, not to scare you, but you know, you may have to get surgery and stuff with your sports hernia, but you're not allowing that to affect your action. So that's you know, you got to be proud of yourself, my man. You're doing big things, and I can't just remember us when you're at the million, you know, follower mark, and you you're doing awesome stuff.

SPEAKER_00:

So I appreciate that, Chris. Yeah, no, I think well, just one more point on that. You know, as coaches, we always think oh, you know, for when we're talking to clients, you know, this is long-term game, this is consistency. But then when it comes to us and getting a following, getting clientele, it's like after two months, people burn out, right? And it's it's just not sustainable. Like you got to think if if you were your client talking to yourself, if you were trying to lose 30 pounds, trying to build 15 pounds of muscle, and somebody said they wanted to do that in three months, two months, you would look at them crazy, right? So I think it's keeping that same mental fortitude in all aspects of life.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. That's it's so great because you know you and I are probably very similar in the sense, like can't remember the last time it took a month off of working out, minus some very serious injuries, maybe, but it's just you do it and you do it because you love it. And so if you take that approach with social media, you may not have to love it, but you do it. I know for a fact, Caleb, there's times when you get to the gym, you're like, fuck, I don't want to work out today, but you do it anyways, right? And then afterwards, you're like, Oh, wow, that was pretty cool. So the same thing with social media. Oh man, this isn't a good post. Just fucking post it and then watch what's gonna happen a couple weeks later. Oh, I really like that post, and you're like, oh shit, that one sucked, but it connected with something. You just have to do it. So, my man, you're gonna be 2026 Olympian.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, 28.

SPEAKER_01:

28. There we go. Yes, sign out for the the rugby. I love that. Where can people find you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, my Instagram is gonna be the most uh the most popular. It's gonna be Caleb C A L E B underscore Thomasine, T O M A S I N.

SPEAKER_01:

Make sure to give him a follow. Let's get him closer to 10k so he can help more people. And most importantly, you can do it. Just got to keep showing up. Thanks, my man.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, thanks, Chris. Appreciate it.