The Show Up Fitness Podcast

Building Better Trainers & DPT's With Dr. Ryan Chow Reload PT

• Chris Hitchko, CEO Show Up Fitness • Season 3 • Episode 289

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SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to the Show Up Fitness Podcast. Great personal trainers are made. We are changing the fitness industry one qualified trainer at a time with our in-person and online personal training certification. If you want to become an elite personal trainer, head on over to showupfitness.com. Also make sure to check out my book, How to Become a Successful Personal Trainer. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review. Have a great day and keep showing up. How'd he y'all? Welcome back to the Show Up Fitness Podcast. Today we are lucky to have Dr. Chow out of New York. How are we doing, sir?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm doing great, Chris. Thanks for having me on. It's uh it's an honor to be on the show.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm gonna give you a little bit of a leeway. You got that big blue M on your chest, but uh that's okay. I'll forgive you. The horns are gonna take you guys down. We'll see.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. We're we're uh we're a little distracted right now, but uh it's gonna be a good game.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's gonna uh set the precedent for 2026. We both need better years. And Doc, I wanted to throw a quick little curveball at you. Last night was pretty uh crazy in the NFL. We had Mr. Mahomes go out, ACL, that hyperextension. And you know, I know that you have to there's so much that goes into that, but I mean, just quickly, do you think that he's gonna be able to come back next year and play?

SPEAKER_00:

I I hope so. I mean, he's great for the game, and uh we've had we've seen people come back um within that kind of time frame. But for me, it's just about how prepared he is, how how he looks during recovery. If he's showing all the skills and the landmarks of someone who can, you know, change direction, sprint, uh have his conditioning, have his confidence, then it could happen. But uh, you know, I I wouldn't rush him back just because. And you know, I think there's so much pressure going uh into the season at this point because of the record that I'm sure he's just trying to do what he could for the team, pushed his body too far. So we'll see. Hopefully, uh the team will leave him in a position where he's not under too much pressure.

SPEAKER_01:

I love what you were saying earlier about Adrian Peterson. I was not aware that uh that you know, because he came back super fast. And everyone almost like put that as like, oh, well, if Adrian can do it, then I can do it. But that's you know, that's a pretty crazy organism right there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, he's a special person. So I wish everyone could come back that quickly. I wouldn't be so stressed if it was that easy.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, there's a lot more that goes into it, and you know, just hopefully a quick recovery for him. And and so I just wanted again, thank you for your time today to chat a little bit about personal training. You just got back from um you were Phoenix at Exos with Dr. LeBenson, and that's uh someone I speak very highly of. I went and worked with him with my low back, and he really gave me hope when I was diagnosed with the disc protrusion and I'm gonna die, can't run, jump. And I was fortunate enough to come across him, and you know, we've been you know connected ever since. And so could you tell us a little bit more about the seminars that you put on with him? And if people are in that area, it would be highly suggested to get out there because we're really big into continued education for our trainers.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, uh, Dr. Levinson is my mentor. He teaches uh and I teach with him for First Principles of Movement. And we had a collective where we had all our instructors, including uh Dr. Katie Dobrowski, Dr. Q uh Coach Q Wiley, uh Dr. Desire Lorenzo, and Dr. Donald Mull. And we gathered together to teach how we uh uh develop trainers, physical therapists, chiropractors, multidisciplinary to provide um just a high level of care in both rehab and training, and uh try to raise the standard for delivering the best possible outcomes.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that's a great segue to talk about your business because it's kind of similar. You have therapists working alongside with trainers, and that's something I've always highly promote. And I talk about you know, the best thing a trainer can do in the beginning is link up with a therapist because you're really just gonna level up your own skills, but it's something that's really needed. And unfortunately, I'm in my experience, trainers can't even talk with therapists because the entry standards are so low. And you know, everyone calls themselves a trainer today. And unfortunately, they they think of themselves as like a jack of all trade, but the best thing you can do is get a therapist on your team and you're just gonna level yourself up.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I I understand where you're coming from, and I I also understand being a trainer before I became a physical therapist. Uh, there's a lot of bad physical therapists out there too. So, you know, I understand that sometimes it's like we want to link up with the uh PT, but sometimes uh the PT doesn't have enough time to communicate the way we would expect the trainer to uh communicate. So uh I'm on both sides of the coin. I still train people, and so uh I'm pretty understanding, but I agree we we should all work together. We would just do so much better for people we serve.

SPEAKER_01:

But being uh a background in personal training as well, are there certain things that you look for when you bring them on your team, or is it more referral? How do you bring on these these trainers?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's that's a great question. I I got asked this this past weekend, and you know, what came to mind is I hire for people who care first. Uh and what I mean by that is, you know, some people are trainers as like a second job, or some people uh, you know, like to work out themselves and want to make an extra buck. But, you know, we want people who are gonna be career trainers, and we think, you know, my whole uh thing this weekend was and and in my career is that I believe trainers can can solve huge problems in society and we're undervalued. We should be paid more, we should be uh valued more, we should have better quality of life, we shouldn't be worried about um finding clients and and trying to maintain them. And so I want someone who cares because if they care, uh then they're gonna do what it takes to learn, to develop the skills, to to really develop relationships with their clients and support each other, uh support their clients and work with other professionals. And I think if they do that, they can make a really good living. And so I just want someone who cares and I'll teach them the rest. Oh, I can't. You can teach them the rest.

SPEAKER_01:

I like that. And so do you find yourself going through, you know, because I can uh we work closely with lifetime and I'll talk to managers and they're constantly seeking talent and they're interviewing and interviewing. It sounds like in your case, it's not that similar. It's more like you're you have your trainers, you're good. And maybe how often are you looking to bring people on your team?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh when we started in 2018, I was one person today. We have 12 uh practitioners, physical therapists, occupational therapists, and trainers. And and uh we're looking to expand. So I'm looking to hire about at least two professionals every year for you know, ongoing. So um trainers are in high-end demand. I mean, people are physically inactive, uh, they need guidance, they need coaching, you know, they need to get moving. And so I think there's a big market for it. And uh yeah, I'm always looking for good people if you know anybody.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. And I appreciate the whole thing because there's so much that goes into it. I was right before this, we had one of our live calls, and I was talking to a gym owner, and he's kind of struggling with, you know, how much do I start paying them? Because what if I I don't pay them enough? They're just gonna take my clients and leave. You know, what are some of the things that go into your thought process and developing that the culture where people do want to stick around? I mean, fortunately, they're getting education from you, which is priceless. But do you come across some of those struggles as well?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Uh, it's not all sunshine and rainbows on owning a gym. I'm not gonna pretend it's the easiest thing in the world, but it's something worth doing. And my philosophy, because I worked as a trainer and I was being paid for procession, I know the struggle of, you know, if I take a couple of weeks off, you know, am I gonna be able to make rent? Or, you know, if I don't uh take this client at the worst convenient, you know, the most inconvenient time in my schedule, are they gonna uh, you know, find a different trainer? And so what I believe is that if I create safety and security for the trainer, uh meaning a salary, full-time benefits, uh, and and the upside, where if they work hard, they can get paid a lot, then I'll get the best version of them. So that's our model. We have all our trainers are full-time salaried uh with uh education benefits, uh PTO and you know, uh education and yeah, uh health insurance, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

You you take care of them, and that's the important thing. And we don't get that as much in the big box culture is you're more of a widget, you're just kind of a cog in the machine, and then people leave and they're like, okay, well, what do I do? And then they like to blame the industry. Oh, it's so hard to become a trainer. But it's like you if you level yourself up and you are a professional, then you'll be able to find that right community. And it sounds like that's exactly what you're offering there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, listen, I I get it. I've been there. It's it's I do oftentimes blame, you know, in in the training world, uh, the big box culture sometimes, or you know, the big uh uh class culture where trainers are like busting their asses. Uh excuse me. Um, you know, trying to trying to get uh escape by, but you know, uh in this in the physical therapy, it's no different. You know, insurance companies make us do things and make us work in ways we don't really want to work. And I was cast as a salesman when I first started, not a trainer. Um but you know it's part of the job in some ways, but I think if you do a really good job, it's uh you'll when you stick out, you'll see that you have more opportunities than you realize and you can make a you know a really good living from that.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's not even to to consider how much it costs at Union Square, what your rent would be. I mean, we're in Santa Monica and we got a tiny little thousand square foot studio and rent's about five grand here. But I mean, there's a lot that goes into owning uh a gym. Now, do you call yourself a clinic or is it more boutique? What do you what do you label yourself as?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh I would call it a gym. Yeah, our physical therapy practice is almost all training because you know, like Craig teaches Craig Liebenson, uh training uh rehab is just training in the presence of injury.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's you see so much today, still the old school therapy where it's ultrasound and STEM and ice, and it's like, no, you gotta you gotta start moving stuff. And if you're not gonna move stuff, you're you're gonna take that like delicate mindset with you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it creates dependency and fragility. You know, I rather teach someone how to train themselves, I rather teach them how to move in their own body, how to navigate pain and performance and uh, you know, the the the the down the the negatives of working out are short-lived, like fatigue, muscle soreness, um, or it might you know decrease your output the next day. But uh the upside is almost always worth it. And so if I teach you when to push it hard and when to maybe do easier mobility or or like cardio, then you know you you learn how to program for yourself over time, then you become great.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And so you got a great team, a lot of therapists. You said you have Cairo as well as occupational or just occupational?

SPEAKER_00:

Just occupational, but we rent space to some Cairos as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. And so let's you know, look through the lens of a trainer who wants to leave that big box and they want to start their own place and maybe they want to link up with a therapist. What should some of those conversations look like from the trainer's side and how could they network with some quality therapist to bring on their team?

SPEAKER_00:

Wow, that's a great question. Um, I think if if you don't mind, I can speak a little bit about my past and then that'll help illuminate this. But when I was an independent personal trainer, you know, I started at a gym. When I went to PT school, I had to work independently. And so I was an independent trainer and I was working alongside other trainers, and that that's not a therapist, but what I learned is when, you know, you hear you see each other doing some cool stuff, you talk, you hang out, you do some workouts together, you start sharing ideas, then you take courses and you learn together, and we created a nice, you know, pretty big community in New York of different types of trainers and therapists and chiropractors who who work out together and who take courses together. And that forms a really strong bond because I know what you know and you know what I know. So if I send you someone or we collaborate some with someone, um, I know you're you're trusted because we have the same knowledge and knowledge and skills. And so I think a really good way to do that is just you know find like-minded people and spend time with them.

SPEAKER_01:

And then the last thing I wanted to chat on the big elephant in the room is how do you get clients? Because it's not easy, you know, they don't just show up on your door, or maybe they do in New York. Are they banging on your door saying, I want to work with Doc? Or you know, how are you? Is it a marketing team? What goes into getting those clients?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, uh I my business is almost all word of mouth. And so we've been around for eight years. Uh this year we're about to have done over 10,000 one-on-one appointments on our team. And almost all of it comes from word of mouth and doing a good job. And what we expect is that if you do a really good, thorough initial evaluation and you show your value in your training, uh, people are gonna be like, wow, I can't get that out of a class. You understand my personal struggles, my personal goals, uh, you you understand how I move, uh, you understand my personal preferences, you you're considering my job situation, my kids, my stress, uh, how I sleep, and all these things come into play. And then when the workout is challenging, but it feels safe, then someone goes, wow, why wouldn't I want to work with you? In fact, why wouldn't my you know, my spouse or my friends want to work out with you? And so I think my number one advice for getting referrals is to do a really, really great job. And then when you can do that, you it's easy to just give someone uh uh you know a little of your time, show them what you can do, and they're like, wow, that's great.

SPEAKER_01:

That's great. I love that. And but you're also you you're not only a professional when it comes to the practitioner aspect, but you are a businessman as well, because you have you know streams of revenue and you go out there and you give talks, you're definitely making some money on there, but you also have some really good products that I've come across on your your page. So uh this one specifically caught me. Uh, do you want to talk a little bit more about um Coach Boo? Or is Bo or Boo? Boo. Boo, and that product that you have.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. So that's like uh so we when we host seminars, we bring in people we want to learn from. And when we bring people in, uh there's certain topics that we feel we're not good enough at. And so Coach Boo is a legendary track and field and strength and conditioning coach uh out of LSU, and he's you know, he's got like 27 national championships, and he's coached athletes that have won in the Olympics at the world uh world stage um in track and field. And so the thing that interested me about him is that he was he knows how to make people run faster, jump higher, and throw harder, and that's not in most personal training or uh rehab uh programs, but he also did a lot of rehabs. So he would pick up where us physical therapists, you know, fell short. And so we wanted to learn more about how do I work with someone who needs to, you know, sprint, you know, on a basketball court or or you know, jump on a volleyball court or something like that. And so um we brought him in to teach. He's taught many times at reload, and and then we record the workshops. And then so it's like you're showing up to the workshop, except you don't have to travel.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, you definitely it's something that attracted me to you is your circle that you are within. I mean, you even your post today, you're you have uh Stuart McMillan on there, he's a legendary sprint dude, and you're talking about Buddy Norris before here. I think a lot of trainers, because of the noise with social media, they don't know exactly who to follow or to learn from. And so are there some people on the top? I mean, obviously, your team is great, but are some others that you would suggest for newer trainers to link up with, get their courses, do some hands-on learning? What would you suggest?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I think it always comes down to where you are in your career. I think learning the foundation and the basics is the most important. I'm similar to you in that I I actually actually used to work at a personal training institute, focused personal training institute in New York City, where I was a licensed teacher to train personal trainers to have a vocational license, and they would get hired by places like Equinox and Lifetime. And and so I think you do have to do the foundations. You have to link up with uh, you know, a Chris and a shell fitness, get your anatomy, physiology, biomechanics, and you know, how to coach exercises. But then after that, you know, I think I'm biased, you know, like like you said, Craig is to me the best. Uh everything I learned gets filtered through everything he's taught me. But after that, I I just went to subject matter specialists. For for example, uh, when I needed to learn about uh barbell training, I went to Marty Gallagher, who coached some of the best power lifters in the world. Um, I learned from, like you said, Bushek's native for speed and power. I learned from a guy, Lee Taft, who's uh multi-directional speed expert, so tennis and and basketball athletes, people who need to do um, you know, different field court sports, football, things like that. Uh and then, you know, uh I've learned from cardio specialists, people who train athletes and and um marathoners, and so I just specialized in each thing and I just keep learning from different people.

SPEAKER_01:

Always be learning. I love that. And you're you're quite uh the resource of information as well. So I'm excited to be out in Dumbo the 20th and 21st, and I'll definitely look you up and come in and chat with you and just uh appreciate everything you're doing for the industry. The the fitness industry needs more qualified uh therapists such as yourself. So where can people find you?

SPEAKER_00:

Um thank you. I really appreciate that, and you're always welcome uh at reload. But um, on Instagram, you can find me at dr dot ryanchow, or you can come to our website at reloadpt.com and just reach out if uh we we have a lot of trainers come in and shadow and see our sessions and things like that. So um, yeah, just hit us up if uh you want to connect.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you like uh whiskey or wine or food? What what are what's your your advice, doc?

SPEAKER_00:

I am I'm a foodie, so I like to eat at nice restaurants, hole in the walls, to nice places. And uh if I'm gonna have a drink, I'm a tequila guy.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, well make sure to bring Doc some gifts when you go in there. If you're gonna shadow something, I'm always a big advocate of that. And again, just thank you for your time today, Doc. This was awesome.

SPEAKER_00:

I appreciate you having me on, Chris.