What Great Coaches Do Differently (Luka Hocevar – Vigor Ground)

Most trainers think coaching is about sets, reps and programs.

It’s not.

Great coaching is communication, leadership and grit.

In this episode we sit down with Luka Hocevar, founder of Vigor Ground Fitness and host of the Vigor Life Podcast. Luka has spent decades developing coaches and building one of the most respected training communities in the industry.

We dive into the skills most trainers never learn from textbooks:

• How to communicate so clients actually trust you
• Why grit matters more than the “perfect program”
• What separates average trainers from elite coaches
• How great gyms develop great coaches
• The mindset required to build a long-term career in fitness

If you’re a personal trainer who wants to build confidence, coach at a higher level and create real impact with clients, this episode is packed with lessons from two coaches who have spent decades in the trenches.

Follow Luka Hocevar:
IG: @lukahocevar
IG: @vigorgroundfitness
Podcast: Vigor Life Podcast

Want to become a successful personal trainer?

Show Up Fitness teaches trainers how to master assessments, programming, sales and communication so they can get hired at the best gyms and build long-term careers.

Learn more at: www.showupfitness.com

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Want to ask us a question?  Email info@showupfitness.com with the subject line PODCAST QUESTION to get your question answered live on the show!

Website: https://www.showupfitness.com/
Become a Successful Personal Trainer Book Vol. 2 (Amazon): https://a.co/d/1aoRnqA
NASM / ACE / ISSA study guide: https://www.showupfitness.com

Transcript

Learning How To Learn

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Don't change. And I had a this was like a couple years ago. I listened to an interview by Mark Cuban, and they were asking him, like, hey, what's the it's probably it's probably not more than two years old, right? And they were like, What's the future? You know, what's gonna happen? What's gonna blow up? What's gonna do this, that, the other? And you always talking about, he was like, Oh, pharmaceutical robotics, you know, that's where things are going. And he was saying a lot of different things, categories, but then he said, I'll tell you what, the people that will dominate are the people that like learn how to learn. If you can learn fast, my goodness, like I can adapt. You know, there's literally a thing called the adapt AQ, adaptability quotient, right? It's like you have EQ, have IQ, um, AQ, it's a real thing. Like, how do you adapt when shit happens? You know, some people have a really tough time adapting, but if you can learn how to learn, I've I've learned how to learn really fast.

State Of The Fitness Industry

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Welcome to the Show Up Fitness Podcast, where great personal trainers are made. We are changing the fitness industry one qualified trainer at a time with our in-person and online personal training certification. If you want to become an elite personal trainer, head on over to showupfitness.com. Also make sure to check out my book, How to Become a Successful Personal Trainer. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review. Have a great day and keep showing up. Howdy, y'all. Welcome back to the Show Up Fitness Podcast. Today we have Mr. Luca. How are we doing today, sir?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Man, we are we are doing that's every every every day. It's like there's stuff going on, which is which is good because if you get to do what you love and and you got a busy day, I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

That is 100% true. You got a great podcast, you have so much wisdom in your mind, and I just want to get right after it and just first off, just tackle the the big question. Why do you think the industry and where do you think it's struggling the most?

Turning Pro And Raising Standards

Why In‑Person Coaching Still Wins

Education To Skills: The Missing Link

Communication, Empathy, And Retention

SPEAKER_01 1:50

You know, like I want to kind of first uh maybe shine a light on good stuff, which is that like I think that there's a lot of really great people and coaches in this industry. Um, and you know, I I I try to do my best to like shine a light on those people, connect them, shout them out, whatever may be, like bring them to my events or collaborative content, whatever it may be, right? Like, because I do think that that's if if if more people can shine a light on people doing great things, it creates uh, you know, I call it like I love these two principles collect role models, hunt for skill sets, right? And like so you can collect more role models in the space um to look at. And sometimes, by the way, those, you know, most actually a lot of the time, those people don't have maybe the biggest followings. Um, you know, so sometimes there's a crossover, but a lot of times people that are doing great work in in the space don't necessarily have as much social media following this, that, or the other. And I think it's important to, you know, to shine a light on those folks. So because that's how we get more of those people, and we get more kind of of the of the apprenticeship model that I think is is kind of missing. Um, I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just think it exists way less than when I started um coming up in this industry. And um, so I'll start with that. You know, a second, I think that what happens, um, you know, I I think that initially, when you're kind of feeling this career out, it can be normal for it to be like, hey, you know, I'm treating this as a hobby. That's fine, by the way. Right. Like we we all kind of go through phases of life, seasons of life. You you experiment, you try things out, you see what's going on. But to me, once you're you get serious, you know, Stephen Pressfield has this great book called Turning Pro. Um, and I'm like, once once you kind of turning pro, I think is a is also a decision, you know. Like, once you're turning pro, like you have to behave differently. And I think that there's too much of the hobby kind of approach to personal training, to coaching. Um, you know, something that maybe if you went in a different space, you'd never find yourself doing, right? Like, but it's kind of like, oh, I like working out, you know. Uh, I like uh, you know, man, I love wearing sweats to work. And uh it's hey, I'm just gonna be like a motivator, hoorah, let's go. Um, and I'm gonna make this, you know, make this uh my career, but then I want to make 100 grand as fast as possible. I don't want to work long days. Uh I I, you know, let me get a couple of brand deals, some online coaching, you know, 15, 20 hours of training here and there, and I'm just making a ton of money, right? Like, um, and that belief is, you know, is what gets people in and it gets them out. It's also what sometimes uh creates a bad reputation. Um, where to me, pro is like, man, like what what does, you know, um, what does the highest level of this look like? And that's why I started with shining a light on people, doing a great job, right? Um, to to so that there's a standard, a representation of what does great coaching look like, carrying yourself will look like, you know, even the brand side of it, like content that you create, you know, all of these things that get encapsulated into um a great career of coaching. Um, I think it's important like to show what it looks like, but then to also show what it requires to build that, which I think that's what we really lost, right? Like, um, hey man, I'm I just started training. I mean my first six months. Uh, at what point in time do I make 200 grand training people 20 hours a day, have seven brand deals and an online app that's doing fucking 20 grand a month, right? Like it's like, okay, all those things are possible. Now, it's gonna take you significantly longer than you think to build that. And here's the requirements to do that, you know. Like, but it starts with I I believe this is my, you know, I'm I'm one of those like I'll die on this hill, and like we we can get into it. Even the online coaching space. I I just don't believe that you can be an acceptable online coach if you haven't coached a lot of people in the real world. I just I just don't believe it. You know what I mean? To be honest, like I don't even I think you should always have a touch pulse in that space. And by the way, some of the really phenomenal coaches that I know that do well online still coach like 70-30, 80-20, like it might be 70 to 80 percent online, 20-30 in person, you know. Uh, and I say percentages, not uh not hours, obviously, piece of the pie. And they've all have a you know a long experience of coaching people in person. So you have to essentially build the skills that make somebody a great coach, you know, whether it's personal trainer, semi-private personal training, group training, um, whatever the model it is that you want to step into. I personally think it's very beneficial to be good at all those things, you know, become a great generalist before you become a great specialist. Um, and then you know, the the the there's a conversation in the space about education. Um, look, I think knowledge is extremely important. I think what's even more important is turning that knowledge into skills, right? And um, there's kind of two sides of the pendulum. Like one side of the pendulum is you know, go to school and you know, get a master's exercise in kinesiology. Now, I'd love to tell you that that that's gonna really prepare you for the real world, but unfortunately it's not. You know, um, we like you know, we have an intern right now um from a school that uh I'm like listen, best thing that you can do is like while you're doing school, do as much personal training on the side as you can. Be involved in SNC, intern here, do like so that while you're learning, you're applying because you're gonna get way more out of it, right? Now, a lot of people that I see don't do much of that, and they're like, come out, they've got charts in their head, they got theories, they got you know, all these different things. I'm like, all right, great. Like, I'm gonna give you this client, you know, here's their stuff, go. And it's like an absolute shock. You know, it's it's such a shock that it's just like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, but I got four years of school, right? So it's like, and I'm not, I'm not here to go like, don't go to college for this. Okay. Uh, what I am here to tell you is that like there are resources in this space that are so valuable. And I think that usually the best thing is in person. I'm all for courses, by the way. Love them. Um, I think accessibility is better than it's ever been. Like, you can go online, you can get a product from your favorite person, but it is nowhere near and never will be to being an apprentice, an intern, you know, or working under a person that is phenomenal at what they do. So, you know, by the way, great tech, it could be great technician on a coaching space, it could be under a great gym owner, a business owner, you know, be having those feedback loops and seeing how things happen in the real world. Now, I do think like you got to combine the two, right? It's kind of people are like, oh, well, it doesn't matter if I don't know anatomy. Uh, I think it does. You know, do you have to be the greatest? Like, you do you need to answer like every insertion point of every muscle in the body? And if you don't, you're not a good coach. No, that's bullshit. But you need to understand like movement and muscles and kinesiology, biomechanics, and stuff like that. You do, you know, again, but guess what you need to be even better at? Communication, you know, real-world program design, interactions, crucial conversations, body language, like walk in the talk. And then, you know, again, there's a like the whole bucket of under being a great communicator, but then being a great problem solver, right? Like if you look up at coaching, like there's there's three parts to the definition of coaching it's technical expertise, it's problem solving, and it's communication. Right now, technical expertise is all this, you know, again, factors of force production, all the principles of advertising adaptation, anatomy, this, that, like all this technical, you know, good at program design, understanding, undulating periodization, concurrent periodization, coaching cubes, this, that, the other. But then problem solving, you can only get better by solving problems in real time. Like it's so that means you got to get reps. You got to do a lot of reps, right? And then communication is a whole nother world where I think um almost every coach could be significantly better at because I, you know, my first kind of job once I started a gym in Slovenia 20 years ago and I came to the US, I worked at a big box gym, a couple of big box gyms, actually. And you know, I I remember being very, very, very, very, very knowledgeable at the training stuff, right? And there was a girl that, to be honest with you, didn't know much, you know, basic stuff, like didn't really understand it well. She was really likable. She was a really good communicator, great energy, really nice. And, you know, a lot of the other coaches, because we had a decently big, big team, were like, ah, you know, she doesn't know shit. But like her attention was amazing. She didn't really lose that many clients, you know, got a lot of referrals. And it's like I was a good, like, I was a good communicator as is. But like, I would go, like, hey, tell me a little bit about what you do, you know, with your clients and stuff. And she would, you know, tell me about like, oh, I do coffees and I do these handwritten notes and I constantly text them and da-da-da, you know. And I started like, oh, okay, okay. I see, oh, there's some stuff that I'm not doing that you're doing that I started doing. Like now, a lot of the other guys were like, man, but I got this degree and I went through this cert, and like, she don't know shit. I'm like, yeah, but like, yeah, obviously, there's stuff that you're not learning from her, you know, but she's obviously doing things that are her business is way better than yours. Like her book of business is more packed than yours is. And you know, you're pointing fingers, being resentful, and but really there's skills that you're missing that she has that like really benefit her in this space. And it's not to say, you know, again, like you you've heard this probably over and over and over that like somebody that has not the, you know, they're they're okay at training, but they're incredible at like communication, you know, behavior change stuff, they have a good personality, they're likable. They're very likely gonna have a better time in industry than you do if you're like elite at all the other stuff, but you're not that likable, you're not a good communicator, you know. Which to me, it's like it's not either or, it's and like what is the bucket that you need to fill? Now, the reason I say that is because I I started saying this education part, right? I think that you have to be a constant, you know, it's like uh with Mike Robertson out at one of our events, he said it really well. Like, you know, like three things that every coach needs to be successful. Number one, hardworking. I mean, I'm sad that I have to say it, but the reality is like any any space you want to be really good at, you got to be hardworking. Number two is you gotta be curious. Like as a as a value, not like a period of time. Like, oh, my first three years in industry, I'm curious. No. Like you look at the top guys, we just had um Brett Bartholomew, Stu McMillan, right? Stu, head coach, uh CEO of Altis. I've guys been coaching for 30 years, 70 Olympians, 40 medals. Yeah, like these guys are constantly curious. Like it's a way of life. I'm at 21 years into this game, like I'm curious every day. Like, I'm trying to figure stuff out, ask questions, right? You gotta be curious. And then number three is like you gotta be client-centric. Like, you can't do well in this. I mean, it's called fucking personal training, like personal, yeah. Like, so it you have to have these kind of attributes. And I think there's others I I talk a lot about. Um, this uh model from Danny Meyer, who is an incredible restaurateur that I've learned a ton from. Um, but he calls it the 51%ers. And you know, uh actually, I'm gonna pull up a slide right here, if you give me one second.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

They wrote the great book at Set the Table, right?

The 51 Percenters Framework

Hiring Filters And Reliability

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yes, setting the table, which by the way, if anybody, if somebody hasn't uh read Setting the Table, I think it's top five. For me, it was you know, top five business books, right? If you if you ask me, even though it's about his journey in the restaurant industry, but the stuff that he shares there is, I mean, I I think it's incredible, right? Like as far as like the lessons of customer service and everything else. But um, I I gave these three things that kind of Mike brought up, but these are these are I think so. Let me just explain to 51 or 51 percenters what it means. So if you if you look at a hundred, let's say a hundred percent, like the whole, you know, and you are incredible at the technical aspect of it. And in fitness, let's call that you're great at movement patterns, kinesiology, biomechanics, vectors of force production, like even program design understanding it, right? Physiological adaptations, yeah, all the sort of technical stuff, right? If you're phenomenal at that, I give you 49 out of the 100 points, right? The 51 is these five emotional skills optimistic warmth, which means genuine kindness, thoughtfulness, and a sense that the glass is always at least half full. Now, let me, you know, think about in your life who you work with, stuff like that. And then, and then tell me if do you know somebody like, man, that person's always up a beat, you know, always finds the good, even the bad things, right? By the way, that's a skill, right? That's very beneficial. Also, do you know anybody that's like, oh, look at the weather? You know, always finding the kind of like the glass is half empty, you know, part of it. There's always, as I like to say, that there's always there's a there's a problem to every solution, right? And you're probably like, shit, I do know people like that. Okay, well, which one is which one do you rather be around? Which one do you think clients would rather be around, right? Optimistic warmth is one of those skills. The second one is intelligence, but not like just smarts, but rather this insatiable curiosity to learn for the sake of learning, right? That's the curiosity I talked about. People are just like, man, I just want to learn more, I want to be better. No matter how long they've been in the game. Emotional skill. Number three, work ethic, a natural tendency to do something as well as it can possibly be done. I love this sentence. I'll ask my coaches, hey, did you do that as well as it could possibly be done? Like 10 out of 10. Uh well, no. What do you think? What do you do? Oh, it was like a six or seven. Okay, why is it not a 10? Like, what would make you get it a 10, right? Like that work ethic is an emotional skill. Empathy, this is a huge one in fitness, an awareness of care for and connection to how others feel and how your actions make others feel. Right. So recognizing how others feel, but then also recognizing how you are rubbing off on somebody, right? I talk about this all the time. Like you're contagious. Like, how are how are you infecting people? Right. I know that one of the things is like, man, even if I have the shittiest day when I come here, I'm going to affect people in a positive way. And then I can deal with my stuff afterwards, but like it's my job as a coach to lift people up, to make it the best part of their day. And then the the number five and six really is like self-awareness and integrity. So an understanding of what of what makes you tick and a natural inclination to be accountable for doing the right thing with honesty and superb judgment. Right. So self-awareness and integrity. Like how, like basically, how am I affecting people? What makes me tick? What makes others tick? And hey, am I doing, even though it's hard, am I doing what's right? Because that's what integrity is. It's like sometimes you're gonna have to do shit that's like, this is not in my favor the most, and it's gonna be hard and challenging and painful, but I'm gonna do it because this is the right thing to do and it's aligned with my values. Now, the thing about 51ers is that like the technical side, I if you have zero understanding of it, I can teach you. You know what I mean? Through my knowledge, my videos, my courses, take this cert. Hey, we got you know, we do more continuing education at this gym, I think, than any gym in the country. Like, we do anywhere from eight, nine to up to 12 certifications and seminars per year, which is almost one a month, which is absurd. So, like you're gonna like you're gonna learn and you're gonna intern and you're gonna get like coaching and you get so that 49, I can if I can teach you if you want it, right? The 51 I'm not listening I'm not saying that you I you can't improve it. They are skills, but as for example, as a gym owner, I don't have the time to take you from a two or three out of 10 to 8 out of 10 on those skills. So I like, for example, I look for 51ers, I'd rather get a 51er and then teach the hell out of that 49 technical side, and they're gonna be a more successful coach than get somebody that's super strong on the technical side, but the dial on a 51er is low. Because it's not like you're a zero or 10, like you know, you're a two here, a four here, a seven here, a three, you know, right? But it's like I'm looking for people that are five and up, you know. Ideally, like you're a seven or up on the emotional skills side. And even if you're a two out of ten, but you love fitness, you're willing to learn, you're hardworking, you're curious, let's fucking go, right? Um, and no, so so what does that say about the educational side of things? And like what frustrates me is that number one, like, you know, I think there needs to be more light shown on what it takes, what is required to be a great coach. And it's more buckets than than just hey, go to school, learn anatomy, biomechanics, and kinesiology, right? Um, I think the rise of social media has kind of look, and I I see the benefits of social media. Like, I'm on it a lot, I have big accounts, but like the I think that what it does is it makes people, you know, I I think the younger coaches need to realize that sometimes people that they follow, they're following entertainers and not coaches, right? Um, and by the way, if you want to be an entertainer, cool, but there has to be distinction, right? Like, um, you you are not a coach if you are talking about fitness and making content about fitness, but you coach no one and you haven't coached anybody, you know what I mean? Like, but even if you look great, awesome, that's great, right? But it there's a distinction there. Now, I'm not saying those people should not exist, not at all. Or, you know, a lot of times, hey, they share good stuff, it's beneficial. But if you are a coach, you have to learn how to be a great coach, right? And I I think that there needs to be a lot more because the airwaves, let's call them, are getting flooded by entertainment and not like the knowledge and I will say the skills and accountability that it takes to be a great coach in this space. Which, which, by the way, I think has um more so than ever when people are like, what's the shortcut to success? I'm like, man, train people in person. Do all the stuff that other people aren't doing today, which is they're not willing to put in the hours and not willing to apprentice and enter and like you know, learning over earning in the early stages. And honestly, like you can quickly, you know, pretty quick, I'll tell you what, significantly faster than trying to build an online business. You can have a book of business and do a great job, right? And you could be completely unknown. And I I have some wild stories, but like in in Jay's mastermind that I used to co-coach with uh Faruja, you know, we coached a guy that you know basically came up in uh in in San Francisco, like being a$50 an hour, you know, personal trainer, went up to hundreds of dollars an hour, you know, ended up training Zuckerberg and his family, actually fired them. And then now, you know, like look, this is this is I'm I'm compressing this, it's a long story. But now his only package is like you, if you train with him, it's a hundred grand a year, right? That's the only package, and by the way, he's booked, he's got a waiting list. His social media, you wouldn't be excited by it, right? And I mean, he makes a million bucks. My point being is the value and power of being an incredible coach, the value is only gonna go up because a lot of these other things AI is going to replace. Like, I have a bot that I fed three years of small group personal training into, you know, and you ask it to build your program, it's 30 seconds, and it's my system, right? Like, okay, so now I still think program design has value because I think if you coach people in the real world, like man, you know, the real coaches can see things and change things and can really build unique things. Um, but but the but the coaching, like the coaching is not going to get replaced by AIs. You know what I mean? It's it's it can't. There's too many humans are complex, you know. And and and I always try to tell folks like, look, there's a difference between complicated and complex. Complicated is When you get IKEA furniture, you know, it's like, what the what the hell is this? And then you know, then they give you instructions, and it's like, nope, step one, step, you know, and you're like, you go through steps and you get it done, right? It's complicated and frustrating, but but if you follow the instructions and it you get the thing done. Complex is where like one variable in the system changes and it changes the system. And that's humans, right? Where it's like, oh shit, but last week you were doing great, but now your dog passed away, your your your your kids are back from school, your schedules change, you're and it's like, oh now we have to, we have to, you know, behavior change some things on your nutrition side, on lifestyle, your training. We got to change your programming, we gotta be more, you know, we we have to kind of adapt to like the changes in your life and everything else. So, you know, because because I would say we are biopsychosocial creatures, and so everything affects us. And and to me, like that's the biggest sell to like I I would go so hardcore in being an in-person coach right now. Um, I mean, right now, like I've I did do for the decades that I've been doing, that's been my sell. But I think that right now it's even a more um value. If you become great at it, like you're so valuable.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I mean, there's so much to unpack right there, 100% right. All the coaches I've interviewed in my career, it's always an experience with an internship or they worked under someone to really help level them up. I'll be really curious to see how you, if you even can, like systemize your hiring process when you're looking for that 51%, because I'm sure there's a lot of facades and people come in and they they present well, but then when push comes to shove, you're like, oh crap, I didn't get the 51% I was really looking at.

Mentoring, Training, And SOPs

Coaching First: Product Over Hype

Social Media vs Real Coaches

Learning Budget And Apprenticeships

SPEAKER_01 23:36

You I mean, you have to see it in action. I think that look, I think there's filters that, for example, like even on a resume, right? Like, imagine if you go um indeed.com, whatever platform you want to put it on, and you're like, here's the job description, here's the thing. Um, and you go, like, hey, with your resume, if there's typos and if you didn't check it and so on and so forth, we'll automatically kick it away, cut kick it out. And then as soon as you do it, too, there's like, hey, can you just record a two-minute video, say this, that, and the other? So many people won't even read the shit that like, you know, you'll eliminate I don't know how many people, but that's just attention to details, meaning, like, hey, I wrote that like these are the things you got to do, and you didn't even do those. Man, what's gonna happen if you come work here? Right? Like, I mean, that just makes it a filter. And by the way, maybe they're not bad people, maybe they're not like maybe they were a fit, but you know what? You have to do some things that basically eliminate, like, if you can't be focused enough and uh you don't have what what I call the GWC, by the way. I love this term. Uh, I think it's from traction, but we use it all the time. GWC means do you get it? Do you understand it? Do you want it? And do you have the capacity for it? Right. And like, I'm not chasing anybody down for stuff, like you have to want it, right? So there's part one, you know, part two is then like interviews. Um, and I think this will sound very cliche and corny. And people, you know, everybody wants the trick, but like values-based questioning, right? Because the thing is, it has to be a value fit. So if I believe, you know, I even just said some things like hardware, curiosity, like I'm big into learning. Like, I want to hire people that like are like, hey, I want to keep learning and getting better, right? Okay, so if I have an interview and I believe in that, and I say, hey, I'd love to hear in the last three to six months what are some books you've read, some courses you've gone through, you know. And if people are like, Oh, I haven't really done anything in that, like, okay, that's a red flag for me. That's gonna be, oh, why is that? Could you tell me a little bit more about it? You know what I mean? And look, maybe they're gonna be like, Well, my mom passed away, and I could, you know, okay. But in general, like, if they're like, no, I really don't know this, I don't know that. I'm gonna ask them, hey, who do you follow? Who do you study from? You know, I've had people go, like, oh, I exclusively study from Instagram. I think I can learn everything I need to. I was like, I mean, that was, you know, game over there for in my eyes, right? But then also like values-based, like we have a you know, leave it better than you found it, be like, hey, do you mind sharing a story of like in your life, you know, where you've left it better than you found it? Meaning, you know, you started something and by the time you were done with it, like it was better. People, persons, places, jobs, right? And you and you dig in. Because the thing is, like, I want to make sure that people are aligned with our values. And so that's the value fit. Now, look, there are people, you're absolutely right, that they might knock all that out the park. They say the right stuff. So I have to see it in action. What does that mean? Well, look, even if you hire somebody, to for us, we always have like you have a 30, 60, 90 day, like they're getting paid, but it's like, hey, we're your own watch. Like, we're gonna see how you operate. There's internships, there's role play, there's like, hey, go run a class, we're gonna watch you run a class, hey, go coach this session, we're gonna watch you coach this session. Because in you you got to make sure the audio matches the video. I think a lot of companies don't do that. We actually chatted about this, you know, where it's like, oh, great interview, great, you're good to go. It's like, listen, man, I it's it's easier than ever to bullshit. So to me, it's like I gotta see it, you know. And by the way, I gotta see it as like, hey, it's busy, it's been a busy day, and it's like at the end purposely is stuff gonna get left out. Is this person gonna put it away? Is it gonna take the extra three to five minutes to leave it better than they found it? Right? Hey, trash is full. Are they gonna do something about it? Ah I don't like doing that shit. That's not my job, you know. And it's like, don't those are all the things that like can tell you everything that you need to do. And they're like, you're not looking for perfection, but you're looking for reliability. And I think this is one of the most overlooked and I would say important words in the industry. Are you reliable? And I I would tell you maybe different about 10 to 15 years ago, but today I think I would rather have a coach that's good to very good, very consistently, than exceptional here and there. You know, like or you should I say exceptional, but you don't know when you're getting it. Like one week exceptional, next week doesn't show up late, this, that, the other, you know, then okay, then the next week exceptional again. For for I would say for clients, not just for like me as the business owner, but for clients, they want reliability, right? So I want to see in that, like let's say it's a 60-day period, right? Oh man, in 30 days, like you're late twice. Everybody listen, everybody can be late here and there, right? Like you something happens, but after that, it's like, hey, what do you have to do so this doesn't repeat itself? Right? But if it keeps like now you're seeing now you're not relying, I can't rely on you to show up early morning, do this, that, the other. I can't rely on you to like clean stuff up. I can't, and the thing is, reliability is a damn superpower, right? So I gotta see it. I think anybody that's hiring somebody, you're making a mistake if you're not putting people to the fire. And like I like to throw people away and like, hey, packed class, guess what? You're running it, and um, the head coach is gonna, you know, whoever's coaching is actually gonna assist you. Go start the warm-ups, let's rock and roll. Right? And then it's like, oh shit. And by the way, like it, it's not to me, it's not about whether they do the perfect job. To me, it's like, how do they deal with it? Right? Do they have good energy? Do they even though they make a mistake, they're okay, like they rub it off, they keep moving. You know what I mean? Like they go to the coach, they ask, they don't have an ego, like, and they just are trying to get better. They're kind of fitting those values that I talked about earlier. You know, that's those are the important things, and like you can't hide, especially not for a specific period of time, right? By the way, in one day you can, right? Like, hey, you're here for one day, show me your best. Okay, that's not enough for me because it's like I gotta see what happens under pressure. I gotta see, you know, because life is not smooth. So when you're a coach, guess what's gonna happen? You know, some days you're gonna be underslept, you're gonna be tired, uh, stuff's gonna be happening in your life. How do you operate under those circumstances? Right. And by the way, there is a huge amount. Let me let me you know step back here because I think it's very important um on the mentor owner side, because we we coach so many gym owners, right? Like my my other business is called Built the Last Gym that I run into with Andy McCloy. And it's like what we run into um and talk a lot about is that you know, people talk about systems. I think systems are very important, like SOPs and things like that, right? But the thing is, this idea that like you give somebody a system and they just go and execute it is insane. Like you have to develop, you have to train, you have to mentor, you have to guide, you have to keep these people accountable. Like it, by the way, you have to pour into them. They're not robots, like they're human beings, and you got to pour into them. So if anybody's heard Radical Candor, it's it's a great book by Kim Scott, right? Like, care deeply challenge directly, right? Like they got to know that you care, and yeah, you should challenge them. You should, you know, I I posted this quote. I think I may have got it from Adam Grant, but like, what is mentorship? Mentorship is like, hey, I believe that you can achieve these highest standards because I believe in you. You know, and if you and if you fall short, and if you don't, I'll be here to support you. I'll help you back up to so that you can achieve these high standards, right? That's what we're doing. That's what mentorship and guidance and coaching is. But you you got to care and you got a challenge, but you got to train, right? Like developing and training. And when you see, um, I just had a prezo in Phoenix, you know, and I I pulled up a thing and I was like, Starbucks here from Seattle, right? To to work at Starbucks, you got to do a minimum of 40 hours of training. It's over a course of two weeks. This is to make coffee, okay? 40 hours to make coffee, right? Um, now look, it can get pretty ruckus in there if it's a busy location, but nonetheless, we're making coffee. Okay. To be a flight attendant, eight to ten weeks, eight hours a day. Okay. By the way, not saying that that's not important. They're not glad rate flight attendants, there's not a lot to learn because there is a shit ton to learn. I have some friends that are flight attendants. But then I asked coaches, I said, how do you how important do you think that coaching is in your business, like in your gym? Oh man, it's really important. I said, Okay, cool. How many hours of training do you do with these people? I mean, it's ridiculously low. Sometimes the non-existent, like, oh, you know, show this, send videos. No, no, no, no. So to make coffee, it's 40 hours, flight attendance is hundreds of hours. But like to train people is just like, all right, here you go. Now, I can tell you right now that the most successful gyms, there's a lot of training involved with their people in staffs, one-on-ones, constant coaching, curriculum, you know, courses, internal courses, but a lot of hands-on, you know, and to to make them really good. So I don't, you know, because I'm I'm kind of shining a light on like, hey, what do what should coaches look for? But I also think what should coaches look for in a mentor. And this is why I think learning over earning, you know, like if you come to vigor, I mean, we we definitely pay above industry standards um quite a bit. Matter of fact, a lot if especially if you're if you have good retention, it's a lot. But nonetheless, like there's there's somebody could probably pay you more, not probably, they they could, but I don't think I believe you won't learn more anywhere else than you do here, right? From internal and external education that we provide. So if you want to like learn the most, get the most reps in, you know, build your own value up, and and have like a I would say a um I said a career path, like this is probably a better place, right? But if you're stepping over, you know, say stepping over dollar bills to pick up pennies, which is what sometimes like I'll man, like I'll make four dollars more priority or I'll make XYZ. But it's like, well, do you want to get the most value and build your value up the most, or do you want to do it the other way? So then you also have to think about who you're learning from, right? Like, where do you go? Who's gonna be there guiding, mentoring you, and building you up, right? So these are all important questions on both sides, right? Because it's like, I don't want to be like, well, you know, this is the important stuff if you're if you're a younger coach building yourself up. You also have to look at like who who is developing you, and it's on those people because I see a lot of that, right? Like the complaints of the younger generation. And trust me, I have those frustrations here and there. But at the end, I go, like, well, how can I help them? Right? How can I mentor them to be to become aware, to realize what it takes, and then to help build them up and pour into them? And you know, and and I think that's really, really important because all of these skills that we talk about, man, I'll go to and and you know, because you go uh as well, like obviously educate a lot in the bigger box gyms, like very known brands. And I'm like, okay, cool. Do you guys do um role play on these situations? I was like, what roleplay? What do you mean? I'm like, so you don't roleplay like sales or a crucial conversation or like a situation happening in real time where somebody goes like, oh, that hurt, like that. You don't roleplay it, like literally go through it and train deliberate practice. Like everybody's looking at me like I'm crazy, right? And I'm like, all right, cool, let's do this right now. You know, uncomfortable. Everybody's uncomfortable. I'm like, yo, this is what we this is what you do on the floor in the real world, and you're uncomfortable with me now in a coaching training setting. It's all coaches, and you're uncomfortable doing this thing. How you expect to get better at this? How do you expect to build your skill up? You know, like and and I've you know, lately I've I've really been on this kind of um kick of like sharing that like people say we hire for experience. And I'm like, that's a really bad filter in many ways, because what experience do you have? I got seven years, seven years of what? Seven years of doing it shit? Like that's worse than being fresh and like really wanting to learn and in and doing whatever you're taught from a great resource, right? Because you have to the seven years of shitty habits is like I have to unlearn those and then rebuild new ones, right? So hey man, I I kind of vibe with that person and they have experience, not great filters, and competence is you know, it can be chronic, you know what I mean? Like, so the these are the types of things that you kind of hear a lot. Um, and and I would like to, you know, part of like what I do now is like I'd like to change it. That's why there's the educational aspect of of what I do. I um and I mean at the end of the day, like I I'm very much so bought into um, you know, one of the things we me and Andy teach and built to last is like one of the five principles is coaching first. Like this is what everything's built on. It's like if you don't have a great coaching service product, everything else really doesn't matter nearly as much because you got great marketing, but you don't have a good coaching product. You know what I mean? Like your brand's awesome, you got a nice gym, but like your coaching product sucks. It's like going to the restaurant that has shit service and bad food, but the restaurant looks beautiful, their Instagram's on point, you know, they run ads. Like you're you're not gonna be successful because guess what? Like people won't come back, right? So coaching is the main thing that that exists, and that's why you know I I've ran a gym. I mean, the Slovenian one started 20 years ago. Here we're going on 18 years. Uh I'm not going anywhere. Like, meaning, if I, you know, I've built myself enough freedom that I can kind of go and do other stuff if I want to. I'm at the gym every day because I love it. Like, I, you know, I I coach less than I used to. I coach, you know, three to four days a week now, kind of however I want to, but I still want to do the thing because I love the thing and I want to get better at the thing. Uh, and I think sometimes people lose sight of that. You know, it's like, what is your craft? Like, what is um I always let anybody that that does a movie buff, I always reference movies, but like the three the 300 movie. Um, if anybody remembers the 300 movie when the Spartans like meet up with the Greeks, right? Um to go fight the Persians, and there's like 10,000 Greeks. And um the the head guy goes, but there are only you know 300 of you. Um and uh King Leonidas goes, like, you what is your profession? It's like Carpenter, you know, it's like you, what is your profession? Blacksmith, you know, like and everybody's talking about what they do. He turns around to the Spartans and goes, like, Sparta, what is your profession? And then they go, Whoo, who, you know, there's fucking like war. Like that, we are soldiers. And he turns around and goes, like, well, I guess we have more soldiers than you. And and to me, like that, like video, I actually played it in one of the presentations that I had because I'm like, today, what you see a lot of is like this, you know, a lot of people are like, Oh, I'm a you know, I'm a trainer, like, but what do you really do? It's like you're a hobbyist, right? Like, well, I want to kind of build my app up. Okay, what about you know, I want to do this thing, I want to do that thing. And I'm like, man, the first 10 years of my career, it was like I breathe, sleep, dream, like everything, coaching. Still, I mean, honestly, it's it's still to this day. It's like I just like I want to be the greatest coach, you know, ever to be able to help anybody, like I can solve any problem, right? And of course, you'll never get there. It's like uh the infinite game, right? But but nonetheless, it's like what is your craft? And I really, really respect and I admire, and I like um get excited to be other people around other people like that. Um, and those people exude, like they love it, you know. I'm saying, like you can tell, like they they're they're like the Spartans, and we'll go against 10,000 Persians because like we're real coaches, right? Like, versus versus like, hey, I do a little bit of this, I do a little bit of that, you know. Um, so that's my like kind of like war cry is like, hey, you know, for for the people that really want to change lives that like are are turning pro and like are bought into this thing. Um it's there's more opportunity than ever. It's exciting, actually. You know, it's exciting. Um, because people are like, oh, but the AI, I'm like, no, no, no, no. That that's I'm telling you, if you're a real coach, it's exciting for, and I don't even, you know, I don't want to get like arrogant and start like shelling out all these different, but let me like let me just say that for for me, like there's things that I'm doing today that I never thought would happen, right? Meaning I didn't even seek them out, right? But where I mean, I just signed an equity deal in a a app that probably most people know, you know, um, in a coaching space, meaning program design, delivery of coaching. Uh, and the reason was because they were like, hey man, like you're a real one. Like, we're looking for people that like are their fucking real deal in training, they know their stuff, they do this in the real world, they live it, and like we need help with expanding into these spaces. And like, yes, you also have, you know, obviously influence in on the different platforms, but it's like that's what we're looking for, right? And by the way, like there's and you know, there's another deal and company that I'm talking to, you know, that that's gonna happen hopefully in the summer, but it all stems from the craft and skill of coaching, you know what I mean? Like that's the master skill. Like that's the master skill. So I think that if if um folks can get excited about that, there's there's still a ton of great resources and people that can help you get there. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 41:34

You hear a lot of trainers online bitch complaining about oh, the industry's saturated. I say, no, it's saturated with just textbook trainers, it's trainers who don't know the true coaching and everything. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

It's it's saturated with that, with that. Like, what are you? A carpenter. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Uh I really like what you said to me when you were talking about when you first started training, you would set aside money from training sessions just from education. Can you tell people a little bit more about how you would save up and just continue the your your your fire to continue to learn?

Reading, Deep Work, And Focus

Principles Over Methods

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Yeah, and I like I I want to kind of go back and try to remember, you know, where where I I I figured this out. But like, okay, so so you remember when I said, you know, collect role models, hunt for skill sets. Um, I've been an avid reader for a long time, you know, and and to me, reading was the first kind of form of mentorship, right? Where people that you aspire to be like are saying things in in the pages of the book, and you're like, well, shit, like they believe these things, you know, their belief has made them successful. So I'm gonna brainwash myself into these beliefs. And a lot of the stuff that I would read was about like learning and mentorship and like go, you know, going to people that are the best and then learning what they did, right? And I grasped onto that, thankfully, early on. Um, you know, even again, like as as old as like the thinking grow riches and how to influence and influence people, you know, and the pollen heel stuff. And um, a huge, you know, huge thing for me was like uh the first time I read uh Unleash the Power Within from Tony Robbins, I don't know, like 20 fucking plus years ago. Um, and so I you know, I kind of realized like, okay, well, I like so I need to find the best people. And I I grew up in an era, I think that was an amazing era. I I would just call it the educational era. And um, I had to go everywhere. Like it was basically, you know, maybe you could buy DVDs, but really everything was person in person. Um, you had awesome places like T Nation when it was, you know, the best and the lead FTS and all these, you know, strengthcoach.com. And like I'd read thousands of articles, buy every book, you know, if I could afford a DVDs, I'd do it. But you know, very quickly I was like, well, I want to go to these seminars. And look, seminars you gotta pay for the seminar to go to the seminar, hotels for the seminar. And I realized, like, damn, like, you know, I'm like kind of a a broke trainer at this point in time. Um, I gotta drop 1500 bucks to go to perform better. You know, I gotta drop this much to do this internship. And so I worked at that time at LA Fitness, um, like in insane amounts of hours. But on the weekends, um, I basically lived at this place, the Bristol, which I lived there for a long time. And a couple of people were like, Well, you know, what if like I live at the Bristol? Like, what if I paid you a little bit less, you know what I mean? But you trained me in the gym there. Picked up a couple clients a couple times a week, but you know, that quickly became like five, six hundred bucks a month. And I would put those five, like pretty much, if I can remember, like literally every dollar of that, because it was cash back then too, and I would just stash it. You know, so then it was like, oh, next perform better events coming up. I have the money to go, and I'd go. And by the way, like you go to one and it's like, holy shit, you know, like basically learn through a fire hose, buy a couple books, read the books, go go back then. It was great too, because it's like you you'd see a speaker and they'd have a blog, you know, or they'd write articles for places, and I'd consume everything, you know. And then if they had a seminar, certification, boom, I'm getting that too. Um, but what it what it did is like it got me to connect people. I I did a ton, a ton, a ton of traveling to go to see intern be with people, you know, and to a degree that like I'm you know, I met Eric Cressy almost 20 years ago. Um, but if you ask him how I met him, I was still playing pro basketball and I flew to London, took a train to Birmingham, England to go to a seminar where him and Nick Grantham were speaking. And I came by far from furthest away. I mean, I was I was literally reciting pages from McGill's, you know, uh ultimate backfitness and performance book. Ended up, you know, uh, he didn't have pounds like for lunch, bought him lunch, bought all his DVDs. Not that long afterwards, I went to Boston, like right after like Cressy opened, you know, and I stayed there for nine days and every day trained there. I mean, I lived there basically. Um, but that was how I operated. So I was like, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna go around the best and like I'm gonna connect with these people and I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna train with them, I'm gonna learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. Anything that they recommend, I'm fucking, you know, hey, I did these things, I'm getting it. Like, man, you're a lead at this. I'm getting it. Next per, you know, I got a story for almost every person, you know, that that people in our era like know, from Dan John to Martin Rooney to like, I got a story how I met him, you know, and the story is kind of a cool story. And um, you know, Martin will tell you these stories, or Alan Cosgrove, or whatever it may be, right? Like, but I mean, I I went everywhere. And I think that's missing a lot today. Because to me, it's like that was the apprenticeship model, you know, Florence, the Renaissance, you know, where where you had to work under a master for like 10 years before they let you go into the world. I think that's a little extreme, but like I took that approach where it was like money on the side. I I realized that like SP and me, right? The stock of me, I am my number one asset. My business is my number one investment. You know, and if you're a solo business, that means that you, your, you're your business, right? Like, you're your number one asset, your business is your number one investment. When I got that, it completely altered things for me. Because by the way, like, you know, I was at this big box gyms, and like everybody's buying the new phone. I'm not buying a new phone. You know, like everybody's getting the coolest clothes and new sneakers. By the way, I wanted to, but my priority was I'm putting into education. But here's the thing a year later, I'm 5x ahead of them. They're complaining, you know, and it's like, but guess what? Like, I'm writing emails, you know, like everybody's still cold calling, like uh where my boss would be like, hey, go into the book and just cold call people. Me, I was building an email list through Yahoo, by the way, not a newsletter, right? And like my clients, I'm like, hey, listen, if you want, like I sent out a weekly email, like just you know, stuff about nutrition and training, whatever. If you want your friends to be on it, just let me know. And it was like hundreds of people ended up being on it, right? I was emailing every week. Guess who those people reach out to when they want to, you know, start losing weight and getting fitter, whatever? It was me. But where did I learn that? Well, I took a course, I read a book, I went to a seminar, you know, like I did the stuff and I implemented it. And it's like my knowledge turned into skills, and now I was significantly more valuable, right? But I'm like, hey, listen, man, then I tell the coaches, like, hey, you want to go to perform better? We'll split the room. You know, you want to go to this seminar, we'll split the room. How much is it? Well, it's 500 bucks for the event. And oh fuck no, like, I'm not doing that. But man, you got cool shoes, you got a cool phone, you got, you know. And it's like two years later, I have 100 X, like I'm I'm running circles, right? And it's like that's the learning before earning part because I'm like, I'm gonna reinvest, I'm gonna reinvest, I'm gonna reinvest, I'm gonna live below my means. And so it's like the financial management aspect of I think uh coaching and in and gym ownership is extremely important skill that a lot of people don't learn. And you know, and those things are some of the things that kind of like, you know, and it never stopped because I got hooked. I was like, whoa, like when I learn from the best and I start implementing it, it works. So now you get hooked, right? Because it's got I got a habit loop. Learn thing, apply thing, get better. Cool, do more, right? And I thankfully early on, um, I kind of got that. And to this day, I've never stopped, you know. And and by the way, it's like as you grow, that's what changed is that like when the you know$40 book was expensive, then that wasn't expensive anymore. Then it was a$200 course, it was expensive, then it was the$1,000 cert, and then you know, but then by the time I was in year you know seven, I'm doing$30,000,$40,000,$50,000 year masterminds. Some that were not fitness, some were you know business and other stuff, right? Like, but I always kept the same mentality around, man, like I'm the number one asset, the business, the number one investment. As I as I grow, I'm going to invest more, not less, into these things, right? And I I think if people can grasp that, um, it is a very, very, very powerful belief system to have.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

I think one of the mind-blowing things to me, like the people you've name dropped, I've I've known them and you know, been to their seminars. It just blows my mind with a lot of these newer trainers today. I'll talk about, you know, Tony Genical or Chad Waterberry, and they're just like, oh, who are they? And I think that's almost like discouraging where it's like, wow, there's these grandfathers in the game that have been around that are the best coaches that have that mindset, exactly what you're talking about. But people are not learning from them. Instead, they're settling for like the devil over here on social media. Well, this person has 200,000 followers, but it's like that's just all smoke and mirrors. You got to get in the trenches and you got to learn from people. And you know, there's a certain contagion that just hearing you talk about, you know, you want to be around the best. I remember when Chad told me that he wanted to go and watch Grover work with Jordan, like that's just a different mindset. People don't have that today, so you want to surround yourself with those individuals.

AQ, Speed Of Learning, And AI

Requirements For Greatness

Fit, Quit, And Grit

SPEAKER_01 50:40

Absolutely. And by the way, like, I think there's there's a new generation that does things great too. You know what I mean? Like, and I'm like, hey, I'm a fan of like, for example, I I find myself learning from people that are doing great stuff that are, and I could dude, I could name drop tons of people, but you know, the the thing is the percentages of like it's kind of like saying that's why I started this going, like, there's a ton of great people, like let's let's celebrate those people, right? Like, let's let's shout them out. Um, and and I'm I'm certainly not the person that's like, hey, there's nobody doing it well today. There's tons of people doing amazing work. It gets diluted a lot between all the other shit. So it's like you got to get good at the filter. Very tight. And and also, uh, I think that those people that that I said, and I could go. I mean, I you know, I stand on the shoulders of giants, man. Like, I should I shout out these people as much as I possibly can. And I think that some of them don't have as big of a social media following, but man, like go read their old articles and books and their still, you know, go to their places, like watch them work. I mean, they're phenomenal, right? So it's like it's not a it's not a uh either or, I think it's a and um, because I think you can learn from both, but but the principle stays the same because I think a lot of you know, I talk to an enormous amount of coaches. Uh, we have, you know, 30 plus people that we're in our built-to-last mentorship. I have hundreds of people in my super coach mentorship, which is a lower tier one. I probably in person speak in front of about 2,000 people per year at different events, right? Like, and then not to mention like the stuff that I go to, how many people I speak to, how many people DM me and message me. We have two different podcasts, yada, yada, right? So, meaning all these conversations bring me to see that a lot of folks, you know, are listening to people that are not about the thing, right? You don't really do the thing, you haven't done, like, been there, done that, still doing it, right? And still open to learning because the best, I'll tell you what the best do, they say, I don't know a lot, right? They they they go and seek a lot, seek and you shall find. Um, you know, they're they're like, man, I know my shit. Like, I feel like I've forgotten more than most people know, but I'm like, I'm here 21, man. I feel fucking dumb. Like, I'm, you know, if you looked at my tab, which will probably stress the hell out of some people if I shared my screen, the amount of courses I have open right now that I'm studying, like on a daily, you know, I'm I'm learning stuff. And it's training, it's copyright, it's uh it's all types of different things, right? Because I'm just thirsty for knowledge, right? Those three things hardworking, curious, client-centric, like always kind of learning. Um, and and the thing is, but you gotta you gotta know who you learn from. And I'll I'll give you a stat that like I promise you I'll connect to that. So Gallup, there's there's a 2015 study, and there was a newer one, 2023 or 2022, that talked about how 82 percent of managers um in in manage people in management positions do not have the skills, they they do not have good skills to be a manager. So let me let me be clear. Uh, massive study, by the way, right? Essentially, less than two out of 10 people that are managing leading people are good at it. What by the way, why does this matter? It's like the Martin told me this a long time ago. He had like a I remember in a TFW level one cert, which I, you know, again, I traveled the world with Martin doing TFW certifications with him. You know what I mean? Um, and like when people say, like, how did you become good at like presenting and speaking? I'm like, seen Martin speak a hundred times in person. Every night we'd go over presentations. Like he taught, you know, like he taught me a lot, like proximity, just being there, seeing it, how he operates, how he prepares. And but he had a slide, and it was like, you know, a bird at the top of this kind of like ladder pooping down on other birds, right? And it was like, hey, like, what are you pooping down on others, right? Like, what are you what are you what are you paying forward to others? So those managers, that majority of them don't have the skills required to be good managers, are teaching others. So those other people, guess what? They're picking up really shitty uh uh shitty habits, right? Now, why does this matter? It matters because it's like you want to get that you know pooped down on proverbially by people that are great at the thing that they do, right? And like you have to see them operate. And I think that like social media can be smoke and mirrors for that. Because I can I can curate a thing that you see, but it doesn't mean that I do it, and would I do that in the real world? I can't tell you the amount of times, by the way, that you know, by the way, the the other side of that is researchers, which we need, and I appreciate them and I study it, and like, but the amount of times I've been at an event, I speak, there's a QA, you know, and somebody asks about semi-private training, a small group personal training, it's like, well, you know, I'd organize it like this. And I'm like, oh, interesting. Well, Mr. Researcher, um, when you run your sessions, could you tell me? Well, I don't run sessions. Ah okay. Well, if you have a 900 square foot gym, you got two racks, one trap bar, you got this, this, this, this, this. Can you tell me how you would break this down, but you have 12 people? Well, I'd buy another three. No, no, no, no, no. You don't, you can't buy another three trap bars. You can't, this is what you got. It's called bottoms-up programming, right? How would you do it? And it's like you're stuck. So you do not live in the real world where most of us live and operate, right? And so, how do you take principles which are top-down and be able to filter them through bottom-up resources? I had a person in my super coach mentorship asked me today, hey, when should I do classes? You know, small group, what's the best time? I'm like, I don't know what's the best time for you. What's the busiest times? How many coaches do you have? Can you do have somebody doing semi-private? Well, we actually can't do that. Okay, filter bottom up. So you can't do that. Let's look at what you can do. Right? This is how like, and I think a lot of things, you know, you watch social and you get communicated to from people that don't really do this thing. And then you think you're fucking dumb because you're like, oh man, but this guy's crushing, he's making this much money, they're doing this, they're having this. No, it's not all smoke and mirrors. Not all of it. There are people that are the real deal. You gotta make sure you find the people that are the real deal. Because, hey, I think that podcasts, social media, YouTube, like they are like viable places to learn, but you gotta really fucking hunker down and make sure that it's the right people you're learning from. And and is a huge advantage if you're if you're willing to go deep, right? But today it's like I I kind of like there's there's two sides. You have to adjust your your teaching to the market. So meaning thing like more bite-sized information put together. But the other side of it is also like, well, listen, honestly, if you want to be really good and you can't fucking hold attention and focus to go through a long seminar, four-day course, you know, certifications, read a book that's 300 pages and be present, you're gonna have a problem. Right. And um, I like I'm I'm gonna bring this up. Hold on, let me uh I do remember some things I have uh it wasn't even for this for this podcast, but uh but things that I remember I think that are very, very beneficial. All right. This is about reading because essentially, like, you know, there's less and less um people that that read today. I mean, first of all, actually, I'll give you stats. If you read one book in 2026, you'll read more than half of American adults. Deep reading, focus, and ability to think are part of what makes us human. Research shows they are in dramatic decline. Reading books can change your life. Here's seven research-backed and practical steps to maintain a deep reading habit. By the way, this is from um my buddy Brad Stolberg, who just came out with an excellent book called The Way of Excellence. Read a hard copy whenever possible. Research shows you comprehend and retain information best from physical pages. There are two reasons for this. You eliminate distractions, multitasking, which e-reading and audiobooks invite. Your brain evolved from tactile experience. Studies show recall is is this uh is higher this way. Number two, eliminate digital distractions. Even your if your phone is phase down on silent or your laptop's closed and asleep. Research shows the mere presence of these devices disrupts focus. Keep your device in a different room or establish a dedicated reading spot on time as part of your routine. Keep a pen and paper handy. The more you engage with the books, the better uh there's there's a big difference between them. Passive reading is skimming, active reading being in conversation with. The latter promotes further absorption of material and more creative insight. Meaning, like I do this all the time. My flat books, I have four by six cards, I write notes on a four by six cards, I put them in the book once I read it, right? These are all research-based things. Keep a notebook for passing thoughts. Even if you're fully engaged in reading, random thoughts will pop into your mind, emails to write, groceries to get, conversations to have, thoughts on your project, problems to solve. All of this is fine. Just got just jot them down so you can offload your brain and keep going. So without going through all of these, the premise of it is like, if I can keep my attention longer and focus longer, I can stay with something, I can learn on a deeper level, I can learn faster. I have a massive advantage over somebody that's like, well, I got to take this in in two fucking minutes. But deep learning is exactly that. It's deep, it's like sticking with stuff for a long time, right? And and my point to that is that like one is like, hey, everybody should read. You heard the stats. So half Americans will not even read a book this year. And I mean, I went a seven-year stint where I read a hundred books per year. It's excessive, but like I'm just voracious. Like, even now with a kid, like every morning I wake up, I have early, I have coffee, I read for anywhere from you know 30 to 45 minutes, depending on how long my my girl Aria can watch Bluey, uh, you know, focused on Bluey. Um, but then like I read for lunch and like on weekends I read two to three hours at a clip, right? Like, still, I take that time, I find the time, and then I take notes, I get ideas, you know. And my point of it being is is like, look, these are the things that like if you want to excel today in this like very, very hyper um, you know, a world that's just constant like information from all over the place, right? Distractions left and right. The person that can stay focused longer and deeper wins. And and by the way, I said at the beginning, knowledge, right? That's the information that comes in. And then skills is the practice that you do because the skills is where all the stuff happens. Like, if you if you read a bunch of stuff and then never do shit with it, well, then you just got a knowledge bucket, but you don't have any skills, right? So you got to turn it into skills. But these, but this is why I'm like, hey, when you when you like find somebody that's really knowledgeable about stuff, has experience, you know, has reputation, positioning, and they have a book, go fucking read the book. You know, like they have a course, go then go through the course. They have an in-person thing, go to an in-person thing. And maybe that's over a course of time as you build yourself up, but it's like there's zero downside to that. You know, like I now have like the amount of people that are like, oh yeah, I'll just watch it at home. I'm like, look, it's definitely better doing that than not like learning. But man, you go to a live event with people, you go to like learning opportunities in person, it's not like a little bit better, it's 10 times better, right? And you can only understand that, you know, when you experience it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

You told me a crazy stat the other day about 1% of trainers don't even make 125k. And it's not about making the money, right? But it's about finding the people who are significant and surrounding yourself with them.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

Absolutely, because there is to a degree of blueprint, right? Like if you gathered up um, you know, I mean, from real OGs, all the legends, the the Cressy's, the Mike Bowles, the Costros, the Martin Rooney's, the I mean, I could just go down the list of of everybody, right? Like, and um you'd you'd you'd find like 80 to 90 percent of the things that they all say that are very similar. It's like this common thread that goes through, right? And by the way, you know, one of the things is that they've been around for a long time. And like everything I talk about now is like, you know, our business is called built to last gym. Like, not like not like crushes it for four years and then gets annihilated, you know, or like we had a fucking peak, we're making a lot of money and doing a great job, but then we didn't last like it's the longevity game, right? That that that matters so much. And I think people have to get taught that. Like, I I remember a time where man, there was I I was in a mastermind, somebody was crushing it, they're buying Lambos, and they're like, wow, man, like what are they doing? Like, this is all you know, they're killing it. Did it five years later, nowhere to be found, right? Now, I don't know what they did and didn't do that that made the business not go. But I tell you what, I I tell people, like, listen, ask me how to fix a car, I'm okay at it. You know what I mean? I can I can cook a mean scramble, but I wouldn't call myself, you know, Bobby Flay. Right. But when it comes to this business, the business of coaching and like being great at coach, like I live this shit. Like, I know the threads of what makes somebody successful. Um, and and I would say, like, majority of the people that somebody are like, oh man, I really look up to that. Like, they would probably tell you a lot of the same things. And I'm like, man, listen to those threads of the pe that people are repeating. And you know, don't think that you're like, well, what do they know? Like, you know, they're they're old schoolers and shit. No, man, listen, there's there's principles that stand the test of time. I think you know, I love this little quote. Pretty sure Cosgrove taught me this one, but it's like methods are many, principles are few, methods change, principles never do, right? And so whether technology changes, the principles don't don't change. And I had a this is like a couple years ago. I listened to a um an interview by Mark Cuban, and they were asking him, like, hey, what's the it's probably it's probably not more than two years old, right? And they were like, What's the future? You know, what's gonna happen, what's gonna blow up, what's gonna do this, that, the other. And you know, it's talking about he was like, Oh, pharmaceutical robotics, you know, that's where things are going. And he was saying a lot of different things, categories, but then he said, I'll tell you what, the people that will dominate are the people that like learn how to learn. If you can learn fast, my goodness, like I can adapt. You know, there's literally a thing called the adapt AQ, adaptability quotient, right? That is like you have EQ, IQ. Um, AQ, it's a real thing. Like, how do you adapt when shit happens? You know, some people have a really tough time adapting, but if you can learn how to learn, I've I've learned how to learn really fast. You know, and I did the gym quick courses before, I had a um software where you know most people read at 180 kind of words per minute, but you could like type in 220, 250, and it would literally have words going across the screen and you'd practice reading it. And I'd do that for 10 minutes every day, seven days a week, and then I'd read a lot of books. And I went from you know 180 to like close to 500, about 500 words per minute now, right? Like, and again, went through Jim Quick's course, he has a course on it. It's not skimming, it's like you know, I practiced the shit out of it. So I read faster, learned faster. I became, you know, because I study so much, I became good at learning. So learning how to learn is another master's skill, right? Because now, like folks will go be going through stuff like, oh yeah, it took me five months to get through that. I'm like, well, I did that in three weeks. I don't like I'm I was I've I've been applying, I went through it in three weeks, but like by week one, I was already applying to stuff that I was learning. So, well, shit, like by the time you start applying, I've already gone through eight different things, right? So, who has an advantage? So I think this is really, really important. But again, the people you look up to, the collect and role models part, like deconstruct what they do well. Deconstruct the principles of what they're saying. I'll tell you what, you're not gonna find a guy that's gonna go, like, hey, in the first five years of your career, find a lot of balance, you know, coach 15 to 20 hours a week. Uh, you know. Just make sure meditate an hour a day. No, they're gonna be like throw yourself in a fucking thing, man. Learn, get as many reps as you possibly can. And you know, probably overdo it. Like, hey, take care of your health, by the way, right? Like, I mean, I I, you know, my first six, seven years, man, I slept three to four hours a night, five, six nights a week. I wouldn't recommend it, you know. But it was like, my thing was I'm gonna work harder than everybody. If I went back, I'd probably change some things, but at the same time, I don't regret it because it it made me very resilient. But I tell you what, you know, I talked to Equinox and they're like, full time is now 22 hours. I'm like, that's fucking crazy to me. Like, you know, and it's but get but guess what? The coach is like, well, I'll coach 35, I'll coach 40. After two years, that person's gonna be running circles around everybody, right? Circles. They'll they'll have make more money, put more money on his side, educate themselves more, have more experience, have more doors open. It's what it's gonna be. And everyone will tell you that, right? But then then it's like, well, nah, like I'm gonna figure this out in a different way. And it's it's like I give analogies, man. Um, and I'll because I'll I'll I'll I'll end on basketball analogies because I love basketball and I played basketball. You know, and and and one of them is this imagine going up to a NBA player and like, hey, I want to be like you, I want to play an NBA. And NBA player goes, like, oh wow, that's awesome, man. Like, what are you doing right now? Well, I I go and I practice basketball three days a week for an hour and a half. NBA player is gonna go, like, um, yeah, there's like probably 200 million people in the world doing that, and then some. So you're gonna have to do more, right? Like you're gonna have to pour yourself, like, especially at a certain age. Like, dude, you're gonna have to train every day, practice, write food, lift, this, that. And by the way, there's also like a genetic component to it, but nonetheless, right? Like, what is required to get into the MBA is not three times a week of an hour and a half of practice, right? It's more. Okay. So it's the same thing with coaching. Oh, you want to make, you know, you want to impact the most lives, make all this money. Okay, well, here's the requirement to do that. And it's not coming from some random person. It's like these are the people that have achieved the thing and they're telling you what's required. If I get a person that comes into my gym and it's like, hey, I want to be the strongest person in Washington State, I want to do, you know, hot hobbyists, but like I want to be able to have, you know, beat the record at 55 years old of squat bench and deadlift. I'm like, that's fucking awesome. It's gonna take some time. How many times a week can you train? One. Okay, it can't happen. Like, not that it's gonna take longer, it can't. You can't become the strongest training one day a week. It's not what's required, right? So there's requirements for you to be great. And you know, I I had a person that's not here anymore, but it was in the internship process, and you know, one day they came in and we're talking about coaching and stuff, and it's like, oh yeah, I mean, like, yeah, yeah, I mean, blast the music, high energy, it's all it is, man. I got this. And it'd sit him down. And I was like, hey, look, let me ask you this. If we go to LA Fitness right now, there's a basketball court. Are the people gonna be playing? Yeah, most likely. I said, I'm gonna be playing basketball. Yeah, basketball, of course. Basketball court, play basketball. Cool. Sounds good. They're playing basketball. Okay, NBA finals when you watch them, I don't know, or where, you know, you see a Luka Dorncich or Tatum or whatever, right? Like, are they playing basketball? Like, yeah, they're playing basketball. Cool. So John, LA Fitness, right, on a on a Saturday, is playing basketball, right? He's trying to cross people over, maybe sprains his own ankle doing it. But he's playing basketball, and so is Luka Dorncich. They're doing the same thing, okay? But there's fucking levels to it. One guy spraining his ankle on a Saturday, doesn't get paid for it. The other guy makes$100 million a year, whatever it may be, right? So my point, like that's it's like what you're talking about. Like what you're talking about is the guy going into LA fitness, spraining his ankle, trying to cross himself over. Me, when I talk about coaching, I want to be the highest elite, most, you know what I mean? And there's a gap there. So it's like you, this vigor is not the place for you to do the the the YMC LA fitness thing. You can go away. Now, if you're committed to that, like you want to achieve that, then that's the game. But that's how people treat this shit. Say a great coach, do you know how many skill sets they have? Do you know how much time, hours, money they've spent to become fucking elite at this? It's mind-boggling, you know. And like sometimes the newer generation, I have to teach them like you don't even know what you don't know. So it's so this seems easy to you. But but you but your skills are a 0.4 out of a hundred, right? And as you start learning more, you'll be like, oh shit. Whoa. This is crazy, right? And if you've ever been around folks, you know, you go down around Dan Path and Stu McMillan and watch them, you know, coach sprint training, and like your brain will melt, right? Like, how do how do they do that? It's like, well, it's decades and decades and decades of like being obsessed with this stuff, right? And I like I would I would like to encourage people to be like, man, get find that obsession. This is Brad Storburg has his great thing, like, you know, uh fit quit grit. Right. So it's like when you get you throw yourself into something, I mean, you should go all in, but then maybe a year later, you know, you'll realize this is not a fit for me. Well, if it's not a fit for you, you should quit. Okay. Now, caveat, you gotta give it your full effort. You can't bullshit. You have to give it your full effort to recognize that it's not a good fit. Okay. Now, let's say you give it your full effort, coaching, and you're like, my God, like I know in my soul this is a fit for me. That's what happened to me post-my basketball career, right? It was certainly not because of the money, because I was in a country where personal training pays fucking nothing. You have to be it's a side hustle, right? But I knew it. I was like, this is a fit. I'm into this shit because I was already into it from training so hard in my basketball career, right? So now it's a fit. Okay, well, now you're gonna need fucking grit. Years, years, not months, years of grit, right? Long, like a lot of hours working your butt off, learning, doing all this stuff to build yourself up, to build your value, your skill sets up, to be able to help as many people as possible, solve bigger problems, right? Bigger problem you solve, the more valuable you are, right? And then you are gonna make more money and you are gonna have positioning and be able to open more doors and other doors, right? But there's no way to do it once you have the fit without the grip. I think people are like, oh, it's a fit. Like, how can I shortcut my way to like being, you know, famous, status, money? It's like it's just no way, it's just no way.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:33

My man, I know you have a busy schedule and you got some stuff to do, but you are a fountain of knowledge. People need to listen to your podcast, they need to do whatever they can to be around you in Seattle, or when you have an opportunity to give a speech. So I appreciate your time. I mean, where can people find you on social?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:48

Uh, best uh spots is just Luca Holsevar, L-U-K-A-H-O-C-E-V-A-R. Um, I got a pretty big YouTube channel, 2,000 videos. You can watch them for like 10 years straight. Very good for coaches and and fitness enthusiasts. And then uh the podcast is the Vigor Life Podcast, my gym's VigorGroundFitness.com. And uh the education is uh two more spots. Lukaholsevar.com has like my courses and workshops and stuff like that. And then Built to Last Gym is my mentorship program I run with Andy McCloy. That's specifically for gym owners. So that's about everything. Um that that's packaged in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:23

I appreciate you. You're humble, you're smart as hell, and you're an absolute hunk. So thank you for taking the time, my man. Appreciate it, brother. Thank you.