Ep. 340 The Hidden Revenue Stream: Running Clubs + Metabolic Testing w/ Life Time Trainer Donovan

Life Time DPT: IG Donovan_will_

Running is easy to start and hard to master, and that gap is where most people get stuck. I’m talking with Donovan, a coach at Lifetime Dumbo in downtown Brooklyn, about what actually makes runners improve: a clean foundation, the right intensity, and a mindset that doesn’t crumble when things get uncomfortable. He’s also training for the New York Marathon, so this isn’t theory, it’s lived experience. 

We dig into how he builds a run clinic and a free run club with real pace support, plus the overlooked details that keep people consistent: cadence, breathing, core and stability, and choosing shoes that help your ankles move naturally. Donovan shares his personal story of multiple eye surgeries and why running is one of the few times he feels relief, which turns “motivation” into something deeper than hype. 

Then we get practical with performance and health: VO2 max testing, metabolic testing, and how personalized heart rate zones can replace guesswork from generic formulas and wearables. We talk Zone 2 training you can actually sustain, smarter interval training in Zone 4 and Zone 5, and what the pain cave looks like both mentally and physiologically when your body hits a limit. 

If you want to run faster, build aerobic fitness, lose weight without living in redline, or simply enjoy running again, this conversation gives you a clear playbook. Subscribe, share this with a friend who “always goes too hard,” and leave a review with your biggest running question so we can tackle it next.

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Transcript

Marathon Dreams And Speed Reality

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Haddy y'all, welcome back to the show finished podcast. Today we're here with Mr. Donovan. How are we doing, sir? From Lifetime Dumbo, New York. Doing good, doing real, real good. And uh you connected with me because not many people know the the calling with triple jump. And we were playing around at the gym, and all of a sudden I heard that's right, that's right right there. And you you know how it goes. Am I like I got goosebumps? I'm like, Oh, you bring me back to high school. It's got must be a track guy. And you you coach track, and we kind of bonded over that. I just thought you have such a cool story. So thank you for taking the time today to talk. Yeah, it's uh it's an absolute pleasure. And talking track, talking running. I can do it all day. And speaking of which, you're gonna be at the New York Marathon in November, right? Yes, I am training for the big one. That's right. You're gonna beat uh the world record holder. That guy, what's that guy's name? Kim Shogi. You're gonna go for that 159 right there with him.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

You know, I'll I'll be watching on my phone while he's done, and I'll be sharing from all the way in the back.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

I remember for the longest time with um uh banister, they said that would be the greatest human accomplishment ever, running under a four-minute mile. Now they do it all the time, but now it's you know, if anyone can get under a two-hour marathon, that's you know, that's insane. What is that? It's like a speed of like 20 plus, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:27

It's I don't remember the exact speed miles per hour. It's insane, it's absolutely insane. But I'm saying it, I think it's gonna happen either this year or next year without a doubt. It's that that record's getting broken.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

I was at Equinox doing some uh sprint train sprint training today, and I got up to 13 and I'm doing that for like 30 seconds. These fuckers are doing it for two hours, it's absolutely they're doing it 20 miles. I've seen the like this giant treadmill, and they'll they'll put it at the speed that he runs. And people get on there and they're like, Okay, a minute two, or they're flying off. It's nuts.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

It's insane. Yeah, it's I've seen like even my buddies, they'll they'll do their some of their workouts at like 13 miles per hour, and they're just on the treadmill talking, having a full conversation. I'm like, that's why you're my friend, and I'm inspired.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Different monster. So, we're gonna talk about your career at lifetime and also maybe a little bit of metabolic testing and what you guys are offering now with your your VO2 max. So just start us off with how you got into training and take us through your your life cycle so far.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Yeah, absolutely. So I got into training kind of by mistake. I um had a goal of becoming a track and field coach. I wanted to coach in the Olympics, I wanted to be a big named coach. And coming out of college, I didn't know it even, I didn't even know the process. I didn't even know who to talk to, who to reach out to. So a good friend of mine, she was like, Why don't you just go work for uh Equinox? So I was like, I've never heard of it. All right, let's go check it out. So I went over there, I actually saw a bunch of my cohorts I graduated with all lined up for the same interview. Walked in super nervous, had no clue what I'm stepping into, didn't know what a personal trainer was, and nailed the interview, was absolutely amazing. Started up a run club there because my managers thought sprinting, which I was a sprinter at the time, they thought sprinting was similar to marathon training. So I trained marathoners with a sprint background, which was insane at the time, but I love learning. So I learned how to coach marathoners, and that led me to the West Coast. I helped open up a couple gyms over there, managed a couple gyms, and the fitness industry changed aggressively after COVID. We all know that. And a buddy of mine who I worked at Equinox, he uh he left them, started working for Lifetime, reached out to him, like, hey, what are you up to these days? He told me how he's grown as a coach under Lifetime, and I was like, sign me up, moved back to New York within two weeks, been with Lifetime for about a year, seven or eight months now, and uh getting ready to launch our run club again and really bringing people out to to learn the joys and the passions of running and getting that runner's high.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

And so could you tell us a little bit a little bit about the difference between Equinox and Lifetime and what are your personal experiences and preferences?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Oh, absolutely. Uh, when I was with Equinox, it was a very when I first started, I had great mentors that I still talk to today. They're absolutely amazing people. And when I started, it was very we are training the system. We are not just training aesthetics, we're gonna change everything about your life. It's not just working out, it's what you're eating, it's what you wanna, how you wanna sleep, how you're working out. So it's the full picture included with your life. And then something happened over the years, it just transitioned and might have been managers, it might have been I was in a different location, it might have been East Coast versus West Coast, but it just started to become a numbers game. And I can train a lot of people, that's okay. But when they told me that I needed to tone down my training because I was bringing the gym over budget, I did group fitness, I did run coaching, I did personal training, I was doing the whole shebang. And I had a meeting, I thought I was gonna get fired. They're like, hey, you got to tone down your training. Like this, you're bringing the gym over budget, you're bringing in a lot of money, but you're whatever the numbers they said, like it's just not working for us. So just remove a couple clients. I'm like, I want to change lives. That's why I got into personal training. That's why I wanted to coach. I want to change lives and left Equinox, bounced around different gyms. And when I heard about Lifetime, never heard of it before. And my buddy he was explaining how it's a full package, it's not just personal training, it's not just group fitness. We have nutrition consultations, we have run coaching, we have metabolic assessments that has elevated since I've been in the company. And it's uh, whatever you're doing in lifetime, if you want to create something bigger, prove that you want to do it and why you can do it and make it happen. And since I've been with the company since lifetime, it's been so eye-opening and enjoyable. Like I love going into work every single day and meeting my people. And as of recent, it's getting warm here in New York. Everybody's getting excited for Run Club, and that gets me out of bed every single morning.

Building Run Clinics And Run Club

SPEAKER_01 6:19

I love that. I mean, it's it's wherever you want to go, get an opportunity to help people, but you know, the the shackles that they can put on you can be a deterrence. And when you get in an environment and you're like, you know, this is this is a giant corporation, you know, six billion dollar company, and and I don't feel like I have those restraints. That's really just eye-opening, and it makes you just feel like, you know, like you said, you're waking up in the morning and you can do this. That's pretty awesome. And so, how do you structure the run clubs? I'd be interested to hear about that because are you doing them in the gym? Are you going outside? Like, what's the the process around that?

SPEAKER_00 6:50

So, twofold. Uh, through the winter months, and I'm thinking I'm gonna have them for the warmer months. I have a run clinic. So I lead a clinic and I'm teaching people the fundamentals of running. So, what does cadence mean? How to breathe. And I talk a lot about mindset. So, how to find the right mindset for when you're in the pain cave. So, that's indoor treadmill. We're learning drills and just finding the foundation. Then outside run club, we have different pace groups. So I have different coaches that are supporting. And whatever pace group, even if you're a beginner or if you're out there running six minute miles, we're gonna have somebody that's there for you that's gonna have you feel comfortable. I create the routes around Lifetime Dumbo. So we leave from the club and we just go out and have fun. Sometimes we do workouts. Last year I did like a couple workouts over on the piers. So imagine you have the downtown Brooklyn, uh downtown Manhattan skyline, and you're doing sprints with that in the background as the sun's coming up. It was one of the best ways to start spring and summer, and that's exactly what I'm leading into for this year. So it's uh come one, come all, and just learn to have fun with the run. And you're gonna meet some great people. And I might trick you into doing a marathon eventually, and who knows? Is that something that is just a club or do you have to pay for? How does that work financially? The clinics you do have to pay for. That's uh only$40. I don't want people to do to feel deterred by price, but if you sign up for the clinic, you get a month's worth of training. So I give them running workouts based on whatever the theme is for the month. And then for the run club, that's all free. Just show up, and I'll definitely myself or my other coaches will take care of you.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

So, yeah, we teach classes online and we're just going over some equinox pricing, and they have like their very simple structure. For this, my mind is going to like how do you structure from a lifetime point of view? Is it like you have to go to the managers to create different products, or how does it something that you're able to use within the systems that they have there? Because it's a it's a different product code, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah, I explained to my leaders about what I want to do, how I want to do it, and they allow me to run with it. They trust me with how why I'm doing it and making sure that I'm compensated well enough. But I really lead with I want running to be an entryway gateway to metabolic testing or personal training. Let's just come in, learn a little bit, and you're just tapping into what's possible for you.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

That's a nice little stream of revenue. That and the cool thing I see about that is you're gonna be with a big group. And so people, you know, the energy and the smiles and everyone, you know, the cuss words when you're in that pain cave, and people be like, you know, that what's up with that trainer over there? I'm intrigued. And so how many people do you typically have in the club? Do you have a cap on that? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

For the clinic, we have 19 people max because I don't want it to feel overwhelming for the newer people for the run-in club. It's as long as I have 10 uh 10 people, one coach per 10 people, we can go endless. I already have a list of seven coaches that are going to be helping me out this year. So I want to cap out 80 people. I do have a big time goal of getting to 100 people, taking over the streets. And when that happens, I I'm on cloud nine. I have changed 100 lives in just one mile.

Eye Injury That Led To Running

SPEAKER_01 10:15

That's so awesome. I love that. And you know, where did your your passion for running come from?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Uh, it started from my eyes. As you can see here, when I was younger, someone picked up a handful of rocks, threw them at me, hit me in the right eye. So that led me to have multiple surgeries uh within a year just to stabilize. I developed cataracts, I have glaucoma. And it happened while I was running a race. It was an after-school race. A year later, as I was about 90% recovered, I was a young kid. I didn't want to wear goggles when I'm outside playing. And someone threw an elbow at me when I was playing basketball, and that completely ruined my eye. So loads of uh loads of surgeries. I think in total, I've had about 15 surgeries. And my doctors told me, ironically, running is a non-contact sport. You have a lot of energy, go into running. So, a friend of mine, he invited me to the track and field team. Uh, I was a sprinter in high school, didn't know what I was doing, but I loved teaching. I didn't realize it at the time, but I ended up becoming the varsity lead. And I was teaching all the freshmen. I was teaching the sophomores how to perfect their drills, how to get to the finish line, have fun with it. And that led me to going to college for track and field, led me to getting two championships for uh Queens College, and that eventually turned into marathon training. Running is the only time or one of the few times that I don't have pain in my eye. So I have pain just about every day. But when I'm out on a run, I feel my whole body. So I'm not thinking about discomfort. I'm thinking about wow, I'm so grateful to feel what I'm feeling outside, hopefully, and just embracing it. So running is really just a fun, loving experience, if you allow it.

Running Form Myths And Relaxed Speed

SPEAKER_01 12:12

That's so awesome because that's what I love about running in talking about track is because people just think it's like, oh, you just you run, it's simple. You don't need to have form or anything. And so, what are some of the you know, the misconceptions that people have as you as you giggle right now? You're just like, yeah, it's way more complex than that, right? So, what are some of the the big misconceptions that people have with running that you kind of you start with the foundation, like you know, start cleaning this stuff up here and there?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Yeah, running is one of the most technical sports you can get into. And with all the technology that's coming out right now, there's more and more that's being spoken about. So the number one thing that I lean into for foundation is just having a strong core and fast feet, light feet. A lot of people will just put on a pair of shoes and go for a run, but their shoes might not be perfect for them. They might feel too heavy, they might be preventing their ankles from moving. So I help people find the perfect shoe for them that looks good and feels good and develop a lot of core and stability to make sure that they can go out for a run and they're not like rolling their ankle on a cobblestone. And they're they can run after a bus and not feel winded. So I also do teach breathing and relaxation when they're going for a run and making sure that people don't go out too hard. A lot of us go out too hard. So I really teach RPE and heart rate training. I lean into that to make sure that everything is within control.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

How technical the sport is. If you when you get into coaching, at least from my experience when I was up in Chico, you could get some random coach and maybe he was a stud, a sprinter or whatever. And so they just start kind of pushing on those anecdotes to you. I remember I had a coach tell me, I'd love to hear your mechanical breakdown just from an elementary standpoint, but he'd be like the main difference between running and sprinting, when you're running, pretend like you're you're holding more like a brick towards your chest, and when you're sprinting, you're eating a chip. And I always thought that was kind of interesting how he explained that to me. What are your thoughts around that breakdown?

SPEAKER_00 14:10

I say I actually lean more towards holding a chip for both sprinting and going out for a marathon run. So when you hold a chip, it's not too tight. You want to make sure that you do have a grip on it, but you don't want someone to take it from you. So that's actually, I was coaching someone right before this, explaining that like I want you to feel relaxed, I want you to feel smooth, and that smoothness, you just flow to the finish line. And in a sprint, when you're sprinting, it's not aggressive, it's a fluid, powerful action. And like, that's why I love you saying Bolt because like he's the fastest, but he doesn't look like it. And that's exactly what I want people to feel like when they're out running. Just relax, comfortable, look like a gazelle. That was my nickname.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

What were your main uh sports or the events you were doing in college?

SPEAKER_00 15:00

I was a one, two, and four hundred runner. And what were your PRs? Oh my 100, I think it was the low 11s, my 200 definitely low 22s, and my 400. It was I know this one for a T because I remember the race. It was a 50.1. That's fine. It was my last race of the season of my career that I'm walking out on a high note. I was like, I'm none, I don't need this anymore.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

And so the I always hear this debate on you know that the hardest race is it the four or is it the eight? What are your thoughts on that one?

SPEAKER_00 15:40

I still believe to the day the 400 is still the hardest race. It's it's insane. You got to be quick, you gotta have the right mindset for it. Where the 800 now is pretty technical, and it's a strategy game where the 400, you just got to get pedaled to the metal and don't die. And the 800 first round, like first lap, you're just you're finding the rhythm of the people, you're finding your own rhythm. Then the then you get to send it. And it's like we don't got time to waste, you got one lap to see what you can do.

VO2 Max Testing And Training Zones

SPEAKER_01 16:14

And that's where the science comes in, which we'll talk about with the metabolic testing, because you're you're flirting with the you know, fast glycolysis when you're doing that, uh, you know, the 800, but when you're at the four, you're you know, you're in kind of phosphogen, you're kind of you're you're flirting with that that high gear, but also if you go balls to the wall for the first hundred, then you're gassed out. And so some of the testing that you're doing now, can you help you know break it down on what you're incorporating in lifetime? Because they just recently introduced this.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Absolutely. Yeah. So uh we're working with Spirofit. And with this new technology, it's a portable system. So I could actually take runners outside to get their VO2s, not like her traditional clinical setting, but we can do it clinically. And I'm finding out the exact zones when they're changing their system, the exact heart rate zones where their body is going from aerobic to anaerobic when they're using more fats versus carbs. Some people it's very low, some people it's very high. And now I have the exact data and the numbers to coach my athletes properly, regardless of if they're runners or just want to lose weight. I bought an iPad to make sure that I'm not training people too hard. So I noticed I was doing that for some people. It was just their heart rates were high all the time. A lot of us coaches think that's a great uh workout, but it's not. Like we actually have some people their high heart rate all the time when they're at work. So toning things down a little bit. I like to call it flushing workouts where we just flush the system and making sure that you're not doing too much. And then I realize I have some clients, they're really good at negotiating, and they're telling me, like, hey, my heart rate's high. I'm I'm this is rough. And I see their heart rate. I'm like, this don't this doesn't look right. You still you're still like hanging out right now. So it's good both ends to just make sure that we're hitting the right tempo, right effort. Not too much, not too little.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

So, what are your recommendations? I know you have all these associations out there who say, Oh, you're supposed to get 150 minutes of you know steady state cardio per week. You know, what are your recommendations for people who are you know just looking out the the heart health, but also a good foundation? You know, you hear a lot about you know zone ones and zone twos. So, what are what are your breakdowns around that?

SPEAKER_00 18:24

I get 10, my minimum is 10 minutes every other day in zone two. You get 10, eight to 10 minutes of that within three weeks, your body's gonna start learning that you're not going into fight or flight, we're going into something that is comfortable and achievable. And I tell a lot of my clients out here, I'm like, look, get into an effort where you can have a conversation, you're aware that you're doing something, but you can watch a full episode of Netflix. Do that, build up to a movie. One of my challenges for my clients is watch all the 007 movies and understand what's going on and give me a breakdown. That's how I know you're truly in zone two. And what is the calculation that you use for them? So it's based all for the on the system. So originally to find a max heart rate and to create your heart rate zones is 220 minus your age and it gives us an estimation. But with the calculations that our newest system is using, it's personalized based off of their age, their height, their weight, and what they're actually expelling with carbon dioxide and oxygen and consuming oxygen, how our body works with that, that makes it personalized and not just some random number that our Apple watches give us and our Garmin watches. Like that, it works, it's good enough. But if you really want to capitalize on becoming the best version of yourself, getting rid of the past and really looking into seeing what's possible, this assessment I already see some people, it is changing lives.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

That's awesome. It's a game changer. And again, I've seen some of the stuff that do at Equinox, and they're using the really old school equipment. And that's one of the things I love about lifetime is they're always, you know, at the forefront of the science and technology. So, how about when you look at the the higher zones? What's your prescription for people? Because you know, you hear about all these hit classes, and it's like, oh, I just got to go balls to the wall all the time. I got to burn calories and fat. But that's where the science comes in, and working with a qualified coach, such as yourself.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Yeah. When it comes down into zone four, zone five, a lot of my generic or general athletes or clients, I'm telling them to tap into zone four at least once a week for a month for a minimum of one to two minutes. Learn what that feeling is because a lot of people they think that is an anxious state, but it's actually not. It's your body saying that we have a task, we got to get it done. So I introduce that, and then over time I build them up to at least five, 10. Some of my advanced athletes, we're going 30 minutes a minimum a week of playing in zone four and zone five.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

And how do you like to break that up? Obviously, it's not a 30-minute stretch at one time. So, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Oh, interval training. Like uh classes, for instance. So, here at a lifetime, we have alpha conditioning and GTX, those are more metabolic conditioning classes, and we have in we have bouts and intervals of one minute in zone four. We have that actually, like this month we're leaning into the Norwegian method, which is threshold training. So it's a lot of zone four and recovery for our GTX classes. And alpha is that four by four?

SPEAKER_01 21:37

What is that one again?

SPEAKER_00 21:38

For theirs, I think we're doing three three minutes on, if I remember correctly, three minute zone three, and then we're playing with a recovery, and then we have four by fours at the end of the workout.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

And tell us about those four by fours because it's not like you know, skipping a rope at uh, you know, hey, here we go, four minutes. It's it's balls of the wall, right?

The Pain Cave Plus Where To Find Donovan

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Really is. And it's uh it's an effort. I like to call it redlining. Like you're pedaled to the metal, but you don't want to press it too much where you red line, and then the tank just blows up. So you're flirting with that red line the whole time. And I like to start people off a little bit slower, and then within maybe a week or two, you'll understand what a true zone four is because you could hold that for 30, 40 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

And so let's end off on that pain cave. And I never know exactly where these terms come from. I think easy would just say frickin' David Goggins, because he's kind of uh he's all over the place. But I've heard Mark Devine, he wrote the seal way. He talks about in some shape or form that example and kind of talk us through physiologically but also mentally what people may be experiencing and how you can help them push through that.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Yeah, mentally first, it's um getting into that pain cave is starting to tell yourself, I cannot do this. And when that conversation gets louder and louder, and you start believing it, the the light at the end of the cave just gets more and more dim. So leaning and reminding yourself, you can do it, you can finish it, you can grasp that light and literally break through and get out of the cave, and then you get to the finish line. Physiologically, your body is in that fight or flight state, and it's truly beautiful because like I can see the data now and see when it's happening. Your body hits a cap that it's not used to and it doesn't know what to do next. So, in training, and you start to train that number to your respiratory exchange ratio. When you train that high VO2 number, your body learns we're gonna be here and we're gonna do this often. Eventually, that number just hits a new cap and keeps going higher and higher and higher. So it's harder to get to that pain cave. And then you know what the pain cave feels like. So you're like, all right, I've been here before, let's push through this thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Do you have clients where you just do running with private one-on-one? And what does that look like if you do?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah, I do actually. Um, I'm getting ready. I have two people getting ready to do boss and marathon this month. And how I do that is I do an assessment on them. I learn what their goals are, what their previous uh running history is, and I see using some equipment we have at lifetime called Kinotech, I see what their imbalances are for their body. So are their hips unbalanced? Are their ankles unstable? So that's like mandatory for all my people. I also do a gate analysis to see what's going on using the Kinotech. And from there, I'll put them on a treadmill, a five-minute assessment, send it. I want to see what's happening. This was previous before the metabolic assessment. So send it. I want to see what's happening, then send me your heart rate data. On a weekly basis, I review their heart rate data and I create workouts off their previous week. So weekly, I'm sending out new workouts, three to five, depending on the athlete, and making sure that they're hitting heart rate zones, they're hitting speeds. And as we get closer to race day, I actually give nutrition plans to make sure that they're fueling right when they're running. So they're not hitting the wall way too early.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

My man, you're a rock star. Everything about this was awesome. And it's just cool to hear how technical this can be, especially when you're working with a great coach such as yourself. So, where can people find you on social media? Or if you're in New York, where are you at?

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah, in New York, I'm in downtown Brooklyn. I'm at Lifetime Dumbo specifically. So you can catch me running over on the piers or across the bridges and on social media, Donovan underscore will underscore, because I'm always willing to do something, and it is my middle name. So you can always find me on Instagram and TikTok, Donovan underscore will underscore.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Awesome, my man. Well, I appreciate your time today. This is great and looking forward to seeing you when we're out there in July slash August for our nutrition seminar. I look forward to having you out here. I'm bringing that info to my clients. All right, buddy. Have a good one. Thank you. All right, thank you.