Is the FMS Overrated? Doc Meathead_Rehab Breaks It Down

Meathead_rehab = DPT breakdown of the FMS.

A movement screen can feel like a truth serum, but what if it’s really just a narrow test that gets mistaken for a diagnosis? We sit down with Dr Motley (DPT) to talk through the Functional Movement Screen (FMS), why it often fails great athletes, and how it gets misused by trainers and clinicians who turn scores into scary predictions. If you’ve ever heard “you’re a 1 here, so you’re going to get hurt,” we unpack why that claim doesn’t hold up and what to do instead. 

We dig into the real-world difference between screening and coaching: using simple observations to guide training versus letting a system dictate every “corrective” choice. We also get honest about the incentives that push fear-based messaging in fitness and insurance-based physical therapy, and why movement optimism matters more than posture perfection. Along the way, we hit evidence-based practice as it’s meant to be used: balancing research, client preferences, and professional experience so you can make better decisions with real humans. 

Then we go after a classic hot button: foam rolling, fascia talk, and the myth of “breaking up adhesions.” We’re not here to ban tools that help people feel better, but we are here to stop wasting half a session on rituals that replace strength work and confidence-building training. If you want a practical, common-sense approach to assessment, rehab, and performance that keeps people lifting and moving, you’ll get a ton from this conversation. Subscribe, share with a coach friend, and leave a review. What’s the worst movement screen take you’ve heard?

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Transcript

Show Intro And Sponsor Mentions

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Show Up Fitness Podcast, where great personal trainers are made. We are changing the fitness industry one qualified trainer at a time with our in-person and online personal training certification. If you want to become an elite personal trainer, head on over to showufffitness.com. Also make sure to check out my book, How to Become a Successful Personal Trainer. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review. Have a great day and keep showing up. Howdy all welcome back to the Show Up Fitness podcast. Today we have Dr. Motley. How are we doing today, sir?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Doing phenomenal, Chris. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

I'm doing great, my man. I appreciate you taking the time. We got connected via the beautiful social media. I was making fun of some FMS, and I think you gave me a thumbs up. And I was like, okay, maybe some of the stuff we're talking about isn't too far fetched. So we know wanted to get you on here to dive into the depths of hell with FMS. And before I do that, though, I wanted to kind of give you a little bio for those that don't know who you are. And you have your undergrad at BYU, and then you went to uh LSU and you did your like a strength coach there. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yeah, so I was a strength coach intern there for a summer. Who was the coach for the team? That was when Les Miles was the coach. This is back in 2015.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Okay. And then you went to Rocky Mountain University to get your DPT. And I think your your biceps, I don't know if they're bigger than your brain because you got pretty big ones on both one, but you're how long you've been at uh uh BYU now?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

So I've been at BYU three full years now. Um I got there in the summer of 2026 or sorry, 2023.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

And the most impressive thing that I see on your your CV here is five kiddos. That's impressive.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Yeah, impressive is one word for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Is that where the the gray in the beard's coming from, you think?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Or yeah, so believe it or not, before I had kids, I had hair and I didn't have any gray in my beard, and now I've got the opposite. So I'm just waiting to go full Deion Sanders, you know, the full white beard.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

There you go. If you looking like Gandalf, that's what I want, baby. I love it. I'm gonna uh play a little clip here from your your Instagram because this is uh something that we're gonna chat about. And it's Mr. Alex Jones, he has a pretty funny viral clip looking at people, and I see trainers doing it, I see you know charlatans, but this is uh I think a pretty good one I wanted to start with today. So let's see what this is all about. And I will give you the background for Patriot, vampire, nationalist, patriot, eugenicist.

unknown 2:36

Really vampire.

Why FMS Looks Good On Paper

SPEAKER_00 2:40

And if you don't follow Coach, you head on over to Meethead underscore rehab, and you will see who he's referencing in those posts because you're gonna see uh Squat University, Move You, Vampire, and then you got some icons like Dr. Q. I had him on the podcast a couple of years ago. I love Q. He's great, he's uh doing some great stuff with First Principles of Movement. He's gonna be out here in LA with Dr. Liebenson, they're doing some awesome stuff. And we just love to connect with you know pro-movement individuals, and I think that's where we could you know start the conversation because people will come across FMS and uh you know, Dr. Yakuk and Lee Burton, you know, they have the credentials, and I think their intent is to you know improve the industry, but to a certain degree, if you don't have the critical thinking skills, I went to one of their seminars and and I watched it and I was like, you know what? I just don't see this being practical for my clientele. It's not to say I'm smart because I'm just a dumb trainer, but I think there's a lot of people that will really buy into this. And if you go to a gym like Equinox, you have to do the FMS. So why not get an expert like yourself just to kind of open up the conversation and and start with, you know, what are our thoughts on the FMS?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yeah, yeah. No, and um, I again I have a little bit of nuance to you. Um, you know, I don't, I obviously don't want to I I come across as maybe a little harsher on my page than I really am in real life. Um, you know, I understand everybody's got their own systems, and um, you know, in one of my clinical rotations, I did a rotation out in Indiana and the clinic that I worked at, they had a sports residency there through the University of Evansville. And the people who run that sports residency are like Phil Pliskey and Kyle Matzell, like these guys helped create the FMS, right? And the SFMA. Um, very, very smart guys, very great clinicians. Um, I've met both of them personally. They're they're great dudes, you know, there's nothing wrong with either of them. Um, and and here's the thing: my my first experience with the FMS goes back to 2011. So this is when I was playing ball at BYU. Um, and our strength coaches got really into the FMS, right? They had us come in and we did the whole testing gamut and we ran through all these corrective exercises before every lift that we did. And even then, I remember like going through all this, and I'm like, what like what's the point of all this, man? Like I can I can kind of see why, okay, maybe we're looking at okay, where are some things maybe need some mobility work on or whatever? But I'm like, all of everybody looks terrible. And you know, I saw guys who are great athletes go through the FMS and just score really, really poorly. And so even back then, I was kind of critical of, you know, what is this system really doing? Um, and then I remember talking to my strength coaches about it, and they were both like, oh no, this is the next level of stuff. And within three or four months, we had phased it out, and my strength coaches were like, hey, this is kind of worthless, it didn't really do anything for us. And so then, you know, fast forward now 12, 13 years, now I'm a DPT student working in a clinic, and I see this whole system being, you know, pumped into all these clinicians, and you know, obviously from first glance it wasn't awesome. I went in already having a not great view on it. Um, and and this is nothing to say that those clinicians were bad. I worked with some really, really good clinicians. Um, there's another guy that I might can I can I make a shout out to my buddy Rolando Rodriguez, he works with I think the Angels now in the MLB. Um, and he's he's huge into the FMS, SFMA stuff, and he's a phenomenal clinician, right? He did his sports residency while I was working as a student. Um, great guy, great clinician, and really, really good at what he does, right? So again, I'm not I'm not crapping on the system as as poor, right? But I think a lot of people they they glom onto the system and they don't leave room for anything else, right? Kind of the way that I see the FMS, the SFMA, all this stuff. Is there's nothing inherently wrong with any of the tests or any of the interventions or whatever, but you gotta learn to use things as proofs, right? It's that old phrase like if all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail, right? Um I use this on a for a different example on one of my posts. I said a jackhammer is a great tool, but you don't want to use it to hang up a picture in your house, right? And so I I I think just understanding that there's nuance and stuff and not everything fits neatly into the FMS at the SFMA or that might lead you lead you away from doing some really good interventions that you might otherwise not do if you're doing that stuff. I think that's really what it boils down to. And you know, it's not that I think anybody is stupid for using it or anything like that. It's just I I just don't use it and I don't like it very much. But you know, obviously you can still get results with it. And so I gotta acknowledge that and give credit where credit's due.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

I think that's that's a great uh point there because in your world, you see a lot of clinicians potentially using it. And when I went and I saw Dr. McGill and you know Burton and these guys, I guarantee you, if they were doing it on a you know general pop, the efficacy would be you know pretty damn high. The problem that I have with it is when I see trainers using it fear-based, and I've seen it, you know, firsthand where a trainer will have them go behind their back and they go, oh, you know, you're at a one here, uh, you're gonna have shoulder pain. And that's where I'm just like, uh, that's actually not true. And you know, what's you know, can you even tell me the 17 muscles around the shoulder? Do you have like a basis for that? Or are you just trying to scare people to sign up for your$150 sessions? And I think that's where I see a lot more of it within my scope with personal trainers is they're using it as a tool to almost make people feel a little fragile, and then they there's more buy-in for, oh, now we're gonna fucking foam roll for 10 minutes and then we're gonna work on your overactive adductor magnus. And so then then it makes them maybe gives them a little more uh maybe self-confidence or just like their systems, there's belief behind it because they have what do they say that the efficacy behind the FMS is right around about 56%, I believe. And that's like flipping a coin. But if maybe if it's a great clinician and there's there's like you're saying, there's lots of people who implement it and they're uh it works, but I think that's probably challenging for new trainers because you buy into something like this, and like you're saying, now everything is is a nail.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah, and it's it's the same with PTs, man. You know, like I s and again, you you you made a good point with general population people. I mean, especially in physical therapy, right? I mean, I work with athletes 25, 8 all the time. And if I go and do something with like a general population person, the to a degree, the ease of like I can almost do anything with that person and they'll get better. Um, and it's like, okay, yeah, I could give this person some some FMS stuff or assess them through that, and they'd probably get better just by doing some of that, right? Um, with my athletes, it's a little more nuanced. So I remember a couple of years ago I saw it was a post of somebody taking it was Dmitry Klokov through like the FMS screen, right? And this guy is a like world record holder Olympic lifter, right? I mean the guy can snatch, I think, like 200 plus kilos, right? And he was struggling doing like the overhead squat with a PVC and he looked really bad. And I'm like, does that that that I think that in and of itself kind of negates the the test, right? This guy can put 500 plus pounds above his head, but he can't hold position with a PVC. Like, I don't think we need to judge him based off of that, right? And so, but yeah, but again, to to your point, I think a lot of PTs like they'll they'll use this to create fear around movement or to show them, show a patient, like, hey, you are broken and you have problems, so you need to come to PT so I can fix you, right? And I think a lot of that is also kind of a just a flaw of the system, right? In this insurance-based system, you have to get people through the door and you have to get people in and whatever. And so sometimes people find ways to do it that way. And again, I'm not I'm not making broad strokes here, I'm not just saying that everybody does it this way, right? I feel like I have to specify that because if not, people are gonna come after me. I don't do it that way, you know, you're just the dumbass. But but anyway, so but yeah, I don't feel like everybody does it that way. But again, I think when you have to get people through the door, I mean you're gonna find any way to keep them around, right? And so, but I think if you could just tell people, like, hey, you're not broken, we have some problems we can fix, and like we'll find good ways to do it. I think that's the the better way than saying, well, you because your shoulder blade doesn't move exactly the way it ought to, like, we need to stop all this movement because you're just gonna hurt yourself, you know.

What Trainers Should Screen Instead

SPEAKER_00 10:51

There's a lot of stereotypes with personal trainers and how they portray us in movies. And my mind is now going to always go to the voice of a physical therapist with your your impersonation right there, because that's what I that's what I think of some you know, nerdy guy with glasses who probably doesn't lift very much, and you know, he's gonna challenge everything with the you know the science says. But what would be your advice for a trainer who is looking at implementing some type of movement screen? You know, are there systems that you have found to be more applicable? Or if you were, I mean, obviously, if you work in an equinox, you have to do the FMS. So it's like I say, put the hat on. And if your manager's not around, do what you feel is better. But if you have to do it that way, then you got to do it. But what would be some, you know, maybe some continued education or some you know bigger thinking aspects of what the a trainer should do with more general pop?

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yeah, that's a good question. And uh it's it's a hard one for me to answer just because I don't I haven't taken much extra like movement screen stuff. And you know, and I have to admit, in my realm of athletics, most of the time when a guy comes in, I already know what's wrong with him, right? Like a guy, you know, he comes in with his leg snapped in half. I'm not like, hey, we need to do a movement screen to figure out what exactly is going on with your leg, right? Um, or if a guy comes in with a torn labrum, like I don't need to say, oh, well, is it your ankle dorsiflexion that's a little stuck that caused your labrum to be torn? Like, no, it was the fact that you tried to tackle a 250-pound dude and your arm got snapped, right? And so so with stuff like that, I don't I don't have to do that much movement screen. Now, I will say, to the credit of the FMS and the SFMA here, as far as a screen goes, when you actually just narrow it down and say, okay, we're just gonna do a screen just to say, okay, let's take an overall picture look, they're actually not that bad, right? And again, I'll I'll admit that, right? Um, because you get a pretty good look at, okay, let's go top down, let's look at everything there, let's look from your neck to your feet and let's kind of see if there's anything that we need to look at further. And so I don't think there's anything wrong, again, with learning the stuff, or at least doing it similar to that, right? I've done something similar in when I work in the clinic or in an evil or whatever, where I'll do, you know, I'll look at the neck, I'll look at the shoulders, I'll look at the back, and then I'll look at just general squat patterns, something like that. I don't do it exactly the way you do it. Sorry, exactly the way they do it. But um, you know, there's nothing wrong with doing all that. And so I think if you're constrained to use the FMS, like if you work at an Equinox or I don't I don't know what Mike Boyle's doing these days, but if he you know forces people to do that or whatever, like then okay, do it. Like, do do what you gotta do. Put the hat on, play the game, you know, do whatever. Um, but then understand what it is that you're looking at, right? Like the the FMS shouldn't automatically just dictate, well, you need to do these interventions. Like you still have the the wherewithal and you still have the the what's what am I looking for? That's the word I look for. You still have the agency to do what you feel like is right. Um, you don't have to be beholden to the system, right?

Why Dysfunction Does Not Stop Lifting

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Absolutely. And I think that's the the real big issue that we're going out with our with our program is that trainers come in and they just read a book and then they don't get hands-on learning, they're not taught like to critically think through it. So, you know, I'll have conversations when I go because we teach set you know seminars at Equinox and Lifetime, and I'll tell a trainer how I assess people, and I'm just kind of like, it depends. You know, it's like you know, we're like cooks, and I'm not gonna just start making a bunch of pizzas. I don't know what the person wants. So when they come in, I'll ask them, like, okay, what are your goals? Okay, well, if you want to achieve this, well, let's look at a squat, let's look at a hinge, let's look at some unilateral stuff. Maybe a step up is maybe a little more uh the efficacy behind that for you would be better than going right into lunges. And so people like these concrete ideas. You have to squat, you have to hinge, you have to lunge. And I almost feel like it you know paralyzes people because then when you come across general pop who can't do that, you're like, oh, what do I what do I have to do? Because you're supposed to be able to do this. But you know, if you don't have shoulder mobility to go overhead, we don't need to test you on that. I can see that when you walked in, you're you know 90 years old and you're on your deathbed. Let's just get you moving, let's you know, make this fun, let's make this an enjoyable process where we don't annihilate you. So then you have DOMS for you know two weeks. Let's try to make this enjoyable and just get stronger.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah, and the the inverse to that, too. You made an interesting point, you know, it's that you know, some people can't do that stuff, but some people can with a lot of quote unquote dysfunction, right? So um I I know a guy who is big SFMA proponent, right? He's he's big on it, and everything is well, if you can't, you know, he says, if you can't touch your toes, you shouldn't deadlift, right? Which I'm like, oh, that's uh wow, okay, that's a stretch. Um, I'd like to see like Eddie Hall touch his toes, right? Like, um, but anyway, so like he he puts all this stuff out, and you know, and I just I listened to it and it just makes me cringe, man, because I'm like, okay, if I was to take myself through the SFMA, I actually did this, so I'm a I'm an adjunct professor at Rocky Mountain where I did my DPT and I help out with a class. And so I I sometimes will sit down with students, they'll say, Hey, take me through you know one of these SFMA screens, and they'll go through and they'll see that you know I have two torn labrums, my shoulder mobility is ass, right? And that's in a in a polite way. Um and like my my back doesn't bend very well, I'm stuck in lower dosis, like my hamstrings are super tight, my ankles are jacked up, right? And so I'll take them to the other day. Okay, do you guys think that I should be benching or pressing or snatching or deadlifting or anything like that? And they're like, well, probably not. You know, all this stuff happens. I go, okay, well, if you were if I were to walk into your clinic and you were to tell me never to do that stuff, I would walk directly out of your clinic and probably kick you in the shin as I walked out, right? And so again, it's like you have to understand that there's there's so much nuance there that not everybody's gonna fit nicely into the system. And I I love I love what you said earlier. We're like cooks, right? I think so many people think that that rehab and training and everything is like baking where you have to have exact specific measurements to get an exact result, right? In reality, it's like you're just a freaking chef back there and you're just trying to figure out okay, what's gonna work, and you can kind of freestyle and jazz a little bit, and and you have to be able to add your own personal flair to stuff. And again, like I use a lot of lifting and I use a lot of simple stuff because I'm a caveman and I have CTE. So I like to keep things real simple, but again, I haven't had anybody not get to where they need to get on time, right? And that's a that's a point of pride that I take, especially with my athletes. These kids are wanting to get back on the field ASAP and just taking them through really, really simple stuff and not overcomplicating things, not making it super sexy, but just having to buy into the process. That's been a huge deal in the last three years. And um, you know, and that makes all the difference at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

I almost feel like it's a forgotten art where you deliver on what people want. And I can only imagine if you came in and I'm like, oh, you know, you got an FMS on a one here, and well, we got to do a stability ball squat curl press to clean up your imbalances and fix you. You'd be like, shut the fuck up, dude. I'm not gonna listen to you. But you're probably gonna be nice enough to be like, uh, you know, uh, you know, I'll just I'm gonna go do it myself. And so that then that trainer kind of gets insecure because they're thinking, well, I did everything by the book and it's it's supposed to happen, but ultimately you didn't listen. You know, if someone says they want to bench press, you're gonna go bench press. I was at Equinox a couple days ago, and there's this trainer. And I always assume, and I'm pretty accurate for the most part, but there's this lady and she's been in her mid-20s, and I would probably take a shot in the dark saying that she wants to focus on her glutes and tighten up and tone like they want. And and he had her bench pressing and getting into retraction and optimal, you know, angle of every 30 minutes on the bench press. And I'm just thinking, you think she's bothered on that, man? Like you I've never in my career in LA in you know, Northern California, had a girl come in and say, I really want to focus this whole session on bench press. Yeah, not to say that there aren't some that are out there, but for sure, yeah, ask better questions and then ultimately deliver. And I think that's one of the great things of working with athletes is you don't have to deal with the fluff because here's your plan. I'm the boss, this is what we're gonna do, and then they get the results from it.

Evidence-Based Practice And Athlete Goals

Foam Rolling Myths And Fascia Obsession

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah, well, and and and to you to your point, you know, these these athletes, nine times out of ten, they don't care how you get them from point A to point B, right? Now, you know, some people say, Well, they they want novelty and they want this and they want that. It's like, no, they're freaking cavemen meatheads just like I am. Like they just they just want to say, okay, how can I get from A to B as fast as possible? And so if you can just tell them and just say, hey, listen, if we just work hard and do this, we'll get there. You know, with bumps happening along the way, right? Sometimes things happen and things go a little slower than they need to. But again, it's it's all about focusing on what the patient wants. And if you want to talk about evidence-based practice here, because that's another freaking hot button topic these days, everyone's like, Well, you just need to follow the research. It's like, yeah, well, okay, whatever. Research is only one part of that, right? So there's there's three pillars of evidence-based practice, and that's the best available research, that's patient preference, and then clinician experience. Right. So, yeah, I might see a research study on something, but again, research is also just all over the place. Right. And so now I can lean on the other two of okay, well, what do I know how to do? And then what is my patient? Well, and nine times out of ten, you'll do pretty well by your patient just doing that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

And since I have a professor in front of me, I like to throw random questions out there, but what does the current evidence based research suggest with the and how do you approach it with your athletes with foam rolling? Are we big foam rollers over there? Or what are your thoughts around that?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Hell nah, man. I mean, I I'll tell my guys the foam roll if they want to, right? Like if they if they think it works for them, yeah, sure have at it. But if I ever prescribe a foam roll to somebody, you can just shoot me right then.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

I love that facial expression. I'm gonna make sure to put that on the podcast because I see people all the time and say, Oh, we got a foam roll for five to ten minutes and work on this overactive uh laptissimus door side, and then we're gonna static stretch. And next thing you know, 15 minutes goes by and the client's like, What the hell do we do?

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah, right. Well, here's the thing, man. Like foam rolling, again, I'm not saying I've never gotten on a foam roll, right? Like, I'll get on and you know snap my back up, or you know, if I've got something that doesn't feel great, you can roll it out. That's great, but that it's not like it does any different than just working it, right? Like you got a tight lat, I bet you work it and fatigue it, it'll feel a little looser.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

We're not breaking up adhesions.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Believe it or not, Chris. Dude, that's that's one of the things that like that that will send me into a frenzy when I hear people like, oh, we gotta get in there and we gotta break up this scar tissue or work on this fascia. I'm like, okay, why don't you go put me under that steamroller outside, and then that'll break up my adhesions and and release my fascia. Like this whole obsession with fascia and stuff, like you might as well just have a freaking foot fetish, man. Like you're telling me all you you're telling me all you need to know as soon as you say, Well, we gotta train your fascia. I was like, All right, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Doc, I I've taught from I used to work at a school where they use the material NASAM, and you know, 2026, they're still telling people that you got upper cross syndrome, you got to break up the adhesions over here, you got a foam roll for five minutes, you got a static stretch. I just really feel for trainers that come in because. It's like it's that's an archaic methodology where, yeah, maybe back in the day, what was it? Yonda, and you know, there's some stuff that had some merit, but thankfully, so we do more research and we come up with better ideas. We're not putting fucking leeches on people anymore, are we?

Escaping Echo Chambers In Fitness

SPEAKER_01 22:14

You're not? Yeah, no, it's it's so crazy, man. Like, I mean, even even in physical therapy school, right? And I think this is a lot of problem with physical therapists. You got people who are trying to fix this. Um, I got a buddy out in Cincinnati, his name's Lou Fullenkamp. Um, and he he teaches like a therapeutic exercise course at the University of Dayton. And um, you know, he's he's talked to me a little bit about the stuff that he does, and it's it's great because they're teaching these new clinicians, hey, here's how to like use your brain to come up with good interventions for people and not just follow what academia is gonna tell you to do. Right. And so, you know, I I I think this is a it's a boots on the ground problem because academia is never gonna fix this, right? Like the NASM is never gonna probably change their stance in their books, you know. The the NSCA, and I love the NSCA, I have I've had my CSCS for 12 years now. Um, you know, but there's some stuff in the CSCS book that just it doesn't teach you anything for the real world, right? It teaches you a lot of principles and they're great. I'm not saying they're not, but there's stuff that you have to learn through application as well. And I think that's just that's the thing with anything. You can't get all your information from books and from theories and from systems. Like you have to be boots on the ground, you have to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

But to your credit, though, your boots are on the ground, but you're surrounding yourself with remarkable individuals who are getting you to think differently. And I think that's a big issue I see with a lot of trainers is if you're around someone who's telling you you got to get the faster training, and you're around someone who says, Oh, you know, they have an anterior pelvic tilt, that's why they have low back pain. And you just surround yourself in that environment, it can be challenging.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Oh, for sure. I mean, look at look at any, you just just look up functional patterns on Instagram and you'll see just the echo chamber of absolute nonsense, right? And people will get swallowed up in that, and they'll you make one comment that's negative, and then they got, you know, 4,000 people saying, Well, you know, have results, you don't know what Naughty Aguilar is doing. Like, and it's just yeah, it's ridiculous. You gotta you gotta get out of your echo chamber a little bit and spool and have conversations and learn things that are maybe a little uncomfortable.

Movement Optimism Over Posture Policing

SPEAKER_00 24:13

And the last little thing I'll comment on, and just uh some advice from me, because as I teach trainers, people who have 20 plus years and you challenge a thought. And I think that trainers kind of get on their high horse and they they think that our profession is like really, you know, it's by the book and everything, you know, posture is so important. And if you don't have perfect posture, you're gonna get hurt. And I just say, Well, I I like a form almost like a free throw. You make it or you miss it. It's like, you know, it doesn't matter if it rolls around 10 times and still goes in, you still made it. And it's like if you had 405 on a back squat, you had a little bit of knee valgus and you still got the full range of motion, you still did lift. It's not like you're gonna be like, oh, you're gonna get hurt. So, how would you approach people who are kind of using that fear base when it comes around posture and so forth?

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SPEAKER_01 24:54

Yeah, no, and that it's that's such a good question because it's the same problem. We we must be working the same exact profession because PT is the exact same, right? You have so many people who just micromanage all these people in movement. Um, but again, there's a lot of guys that that I've followed that I've linked up with, you know, that talk about movement optimism, right? And I think it's it's okay to just say, hey, some movement is better than no movement. And like doing something is always gonna be better than doing nothing, right? If you just fear base people into not even moving and not lifting, not getting stronger, you're doing them a disservice, right? Like I've seen I've seen great success, be it in the general population, be it with athletes, of just getting people doing something. It doesn't matter if it's perfect or not. I mean, shoot, nothing that I do is perfect. And you know, I'm I'm 36 years old, and like, yeah, my body's falling apart a little bit. But like I told my wife, the day that I stop lifting or the day that I stopped doing whatever, just just euthanize me. There's there's no point, right? Um, but again, like you look at a lot of problems that are plaguing people, and it's just because they don't do anything, right? And so if you fear these people into well, you can't, you you can only deadlift if you do it perfectly, or you can only squat if you do it perfectly. Like, we're gonna keep people out of gyms, people are gonna keep getting sick, and we're just gonna keep fueling this problem of all these orthopedic issues into old age, you know, old people are gonna die from falling over. But if you start creating some movement optimism and just getting people strong, like getting people training, then I guarantee you you'll start to see less morbidity when you're old. You'll start to be able to, people will like not have to worry about can I play with my kids for this long, right? It's because you're you're already building the groundwork earlier in life. Um, and again, too, I I think that the people who are maybe stuck in this system where they're like, hey, you know, oh well, my therapist said that I can't do this, or my therapist said that I can't do that, like, okay, obviously, if there's there's really serious medical conditions that are precluding you from doing something, like, you know, I'm trying to tell you to trust your people. But at the same time, like if you're like, I want to start deadlifting, I want to start benching, I want to figure this out, and you got a therapist that's telling you, well, don't do it because you have XYZ, like screw that. Like, just go go figure it out. Start light, you know, so you don't hurt yourself. But like, get out there and do something because I guarantee you that's gonna pay more dividends than you trying to fix your 10 lacking degrees of shoulder abduction, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 27:08

That's awesome, Doc. Well, this has been a great conversation. Uh, thank you for your time. I gotta give you props on that uh behind the neck overhead press that you did because you didn't die and you did it, and that's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Yeah, I uh I can't feel my pinkies the last two days, but you know, we got it done. Where can people find you again on social media? So I'm at meathead underscore rehab on Instagram. Um, I used to have a Twitter and stuff, but I only have the patience to run Instagram now, and I'm kind of losing patience for that too. So find me there before I stop running my page.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

I'm glad we were able to have this conversation, Doc. Thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Hey, I appreciate you, Chris. It was good talking to you.