Navigating Injury Rehab in the AI Era w/ Dr. Waltman & Adam

You can rest an injury until it “feels fine” and still end up stuck at 80%. That’s the trap that keeps athletes and active adults cycling through flare-ups, compensations, and reinjuries and it’s exactly what we dig into with Dr. David Waltman, DPT.

We talk about what most people never get from the traditional physical therapy clinic model: clear expectations. David breaks down why rushed visits and insurance-driven schedules can leave patients without the education that actually drives recovery. We get specific about what good rehab coaching looks like: knowing your phase of healing, understanding realistic timelines, and progressing with intent instead of chasing a random “quick fix” from Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube.

Then we pivot to the solution David built after the pandemic pushed him into mobile concierge PT: KESI, an AI-assisted physical therapy and rehab programming app designed to stay evidence-based, affordable, and scalable. We cover who it’s for, when you should still see a provider in person (especially acute injuries with swelling, limping, or trauma), and how KESI helps you through the messy middle after pain starts to fade. We also get into load management fundamentals, including tracking volume, pain, and RPE, plus the safeguards that keep a real clinician supervising progress.

If you’re a personal trainer, coach, or lifter who wants smarter injury rehab, better return-to-sport decisions, and a clearer roadmap from pain to performance, this one will sharpen how you think and how you program. Subscribe, share this with a trainer friend, and leave a review with your biggest rehab question so we can tackle it next.

Want to become a SUCCESSFUL personal trainer? SUF-CPT is the FASTEST growing personal training certification in the world!

Want to ask us a question?  Email info@showupfitness.com with the subject line PODCAST QUESTION to get your question answered live on the show!

Website: https://www.showupfitness.com/
Become a Successful Personal Trainer Book Vol. 2 (Amazon): https://a.co/d/1aoRnqA
NASM / ACE / ISSA study guide: https://www.showupfitness.com

Transcript

Welcome And Old Friends Reconnect

SPEAKER_00 0:00

All right, welcome back to the Show Up Fitness Podcast. I'm your host for today, Adam Baldwin, and I am joined by my good friend, Dr. David Waltman. Uh Dr. Waltman, how are we doing today?

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Great. Yeah, beautiful day today. How's everything going for you?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

It's great. So just uh join life up here in Boise, Idaho. Um, I know you're out in uh Long Beach now, but fun fact is that David and I actually went to school together in Northern California and I was doing the math, and I cannot believe that we are only a year away from our 20-year, right? Is we just yeah, one year away from our 20-year high school reunion. So yeah, maybe that together put it that way. Yeah, I know. I was like feeling real old when I was thinking about it because one of my I trained some uh junior high and high school kids and they were asking about when I was in high school, and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm approaching 20 years uh from graduation, which means we've known each other for like 22, 23 years, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Long time.

Why David Chose Physical Therapy

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Yep, so it's pretty cool to come full circle, see that we kind of went similar routes in terms of the industry. Um, for those of us that have for those that know us, wouldn't be surprised that you're the one that became the doctor of physical therapy and I became the meathead trainer. Uh just uh yeah, that's kind of how it was. Yeah. Um but yeah, so we've uh known each other for a long time and now doing some of the stuff with the podcast, it's cool to be able to give you the opportunity to talk a little bit about uh your background, how you got into physical therapy, and uh then a cool new project you're working on and just implemented. I think you rolled out a little more than a month ago as your AI physical therapy app KESI. So we'll talk a little bit about that. But if you can, uh just give us a little introduction on yourself, your background, why you decided to become a physical therapist, and what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah, well, thanks for having me on. This is uh it's exciting. I always love chatting um with trainers, coaches, therapists that, you know, are are similar mindset and um do a good job in the industry. So um, my name is Dr. David Waltman, physical therapist. Uh, this will be uh coming up on 10 years of being a licensed PT already. So, you know, again, time goes by pretty fast. Um, so you know, I think for a lot of people that get into the rehab and and fitness industry at large, I think a lot of it has to do with just experience going through it, frustrations, um, you know, gaps that you can see that need to be filled and all that kind of stuff. So for me, it was, you know, just going through injuries in high school as every athlete does, um, and just always just being interested in the rehab process. Um, so, you know, ankle sprains, uh, hamstring poles, things like that in uh different sports. And so, and I I never actually had um traditional physical therapy. I never actually went to PT as a patient myself. I didn't even know it existed until like I think senior year of high school. Um it was kind of funny. So, like my mom uh was a nurse and her partner is orthopedic surgeon, but still I never I never knew that it was a thing. Like I just figured, like, hey, you know, you just rehab, you wait till it feels better, and then, you know, you just get back into playing when you can, right? And so we've come a long, come a long way since then um in terms of knowing like readiness of when to progress from one phase to another, when to actually get back to a sport. Um so we can talk more about that. But um that's just how I got into it, just always being injured uh or just having being interested in the injury recovery process. Uh I ended up at UCSV running track my freshman year. I had some uh some nagging hamstring problems that followed me from high school, uh, ended up in the training room. And um, I guess that was more similar to most people's experience with like a traditional physical therapy experience in terms of um for me going in the training room, I was a walk-on freshman. They didn't really, you know, I was kind of very low on the totem pole in terms of priority. And so it was it was the ice and the electrical stem on the ham on the hamstring. It was just some some basic rehab stuff. Um, not really any education at all, no like guidance in terms of like here's the stage of the injury that you're in right now, here's how long we expect it to take, and this is why we're starting you at this point, right? So I think like there's nothing wrong with starting at that phase if that's appropriate for the injury, but it's really important for the athlete, the client, whoever, to understand what, you know, where they are in in the recovery process, how long that should take, and just kind of just so they ex they expect what's gonna happen, you know, from a week-to-week process, how long it'll take to get back to a sport or whatever activity they're doing. Um, but I think most of the time, and I think um, you know, from my experience and talking to patients over the years, you know, you don't get that education part. You know, things are rushed and it's not really um the best model or the best situation a lot of times, unfortunately, for people to understand what's going on and how long it'll take. So that was really my first experience, you know, going through a more of a uh kind of a structured um, you know, rehab process, even though it was not a good experience, but that was my first one. Um and so I did some athletic training internships while I was in school there. I really liked that, being on the field with the athletes and being in the training room. But at the end of the day, I didn't want to only be limited to that for my career. I wanted a little bit more autonomy, um, a little bit more uh responsibility, you know, and be able to work with different types of people. And so I ended up going the physical therapy route. Uh, went to Sacramento State, graduated in 2016. And so, yeah, and then I, you know, just ended up in the typical, you know, outpatient clinic. If you want me to talk about that, I'm I can't. Um, or whatever if you have any specific questions you want to go from there.

The Shift To Mobile Concierge PT

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, so it's because I know that's usually the traditional route, and like once you graduate, you know, feeding in somewhere. It's kind of the same thing we see with trainers, right? You once you get your certification and education, it's usually going to the big box gym, it's getting the experience, but then it kind of develops from there. So uh we could talk a little bit more about it, but I'm really kind of more curious on kind of where you're at now in terms of you having more of this like concierge type business with your with your training, where you know, from what I've seen is that you know, you're going to your patients and um you're also doing some stuff which I think is pretty cool, where you're going to some of the local schools around and doing some like testing and working with some of the athletes there. So uh if you want to talk a little bit about that, about kind of I mean, what this made you decide to go that route in terms of kind of getting out of more just like the outpatient clinics and more into um being able to deliver this more like concierge type business where you're working with athletes and being able to be a little more accessible to people.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Yeah, and so the the short answer is that I made that transition during the pandemic when clinic shut down, gym shut down, right? And so like the option at the time was transition into mobile PT going to patients' houses, you know, after things settled down after a few months during the pandemic, right? Feels like a long time ago now, but that was the only option at the time to keep working and keep working with people. And then it just, I didn't really expect it to continue this long. And I was even in a gym for a couple of years, about two and a half years. Um, it's been a year already since I left the gym. Um, but really I just kept being pulled in the mobile direction and be in in terms of the convenience factor of it. Um, I live in Orange County, so you know, people everyone's got busy schedules, but like, you know, especially if you're if you got kids, you're working yourself, right? There's there's only so many hours in the day, and it's really hard for people to find time to commute even like 20 minutes, right? You commute 20 minutes, you do your hour session therapy or training or whatever it is, got to cool down, maybe shower and 20 minutes back, right? It takes a good chunk of the day to do that. And so I think people just became used to the just the convenience factor in general during the pandemic, having gone through that in terms of different types of services being um being uh able to be delivered at their house or their or their work or their gym or something like that. So it just became almost like people's expectation that that that's an option, but also you know became a preference. So that's how I ended up there. As far as why it's it's still successful as a model, I think because you know, the traditional clinic model, it's really hard to deliver a good service to somebody when you have limited time with them. And that's that's dictated by reimbursement reimbursement rates from insurance. That's you know, it gets less and less every year, obviously, right? And if you if you contrast that with uh you know overhead from rent, if you're renting a gym space or a clinic, especially down here in Orange County, you know, that's very expensive, right? So to offset that, you have to have more appointment slots throughout the day and throughout the hour. So it's you know, it's common to have four appointments every hour if you're the supervising physical therapist in the clinic. And then you would have either a physical therapy assistant or a tech or an aide type of, you know, high school age type person to run people through, uh run them through their program, right? Where it's just like you kind of half check on them, you know, as they're going through it. And so it's just not a good model for, you know, back to the education part, explaining to the patient why they are doing what they're doing in the first place, how it applies to them, even if it seems simple or you know, not really that helpful. If it, if that, if they do feel that way, you need to make them understand, like, well, it's still important that we're doing it because of X, Y, or Z. This is the phase that we're healing that we're in. It'll, it's gonna get more challenging over time. But it it's really hard to get that education component when you don't have that much time with them in the first place. And so that was the big thing. And so now that I do the the concierge model, you know, I spend 45 minutes to an hour for my appointment times with them. And the most most of that is is the is the education that goes along with it every time, not just the fact that I'm working with them in person, you know, from the actual technical standpoint, but helping guide them through it from an education standpoint so that they know you know what what's to come and what to expect.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Yeah, that's great. It's something that we're always reiterating with our trainers, like when you're working with clients, you you have to really do a good job of painting that expectation because you know, sometimes so many people are just left with wondering and trying to figure it out and going on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube and trying to figure out like what to do and thinking like, oh, here's a quick fix, and then they're making things worse, or they just completely stop. And uh, you had a really good post uh a few weeks ago talking about how like the number one thing that you see people get wrong when they're rehabbing is either they go from zero to a hundred or they just like don't do anything. And so not understanding that has to do with uh not knowing and understanding and having clear expectations. And so that's one thing we always reiterate is like uh you got to give your clients hope, right? You have to let them know that there is light at the end of the tunnel, that there is a roadmap to being out of pain, uh having better movement, uh, but they need to have a realistic expectation of what that looks like and what it and what you provide with that, and then also uh with what's expected uh of them. Um the other thing I don't want to touch on, which I think is uh is great, is the fact that you uh came up with this model idea and like this business that's been successful for you uh through like during the pandemic when uh things are not easy to be like uh an independent uh physical therapist or independent uh you know trainer, and where it's but like the people that really uh see the the success and have kind of grown through this have been the ones that are uh take those uh uh adversities and can uh develop something really cool from them. And so you uh didn't say, like, all right, I gotta pivot to a different career choice or just get out of this. You're like, okay, well, what do people need? What do people want, and what can I provide? And I think that's a really cool model to um to see. Uh now with the concierge like like model that you you have, are you seeing cloud like on a pretty regular basis as you go through this where you're seeing them two or three times a week, or because it's a little more demanding in terms of you having to travel and go places that you try to see them like a little less often and provide plans for them and then kind of checking in with them via more online?

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Um yeah, so the the with the mobile option, I mean, obviously the driving is the main factor, right? In terms of the commutes and you know, trying to be efficient, strategic in in terms of all of that. And so, you know, I've been doing it for enough and enough years now where um probably like 75% of my caseload is recurring uh training clients now that have progressed from uh from rehab. And so they've wanted to continue on more in the you know 40s to 60s age group that you know understands the importance of being strong now as it relates to um you know strength, uh muscle mass, bone density, just being able to confidently move well for their uh for for traveling and you know different activities that they're doing and whatnot. Um but yeah, so I mean obviously it's hard with the with the driving sometimes, but um, but it's a little bit more predictable now because you know I have people that have wanted to continue on um on a on a regular basis. Then I of course I have some patients that are, you know, they they they come and go, right? They're they're they're in the rehab um phases for a few weeks, a few months, whatever it is, if they if they live further away on and it's hard for me to get to them. Of course, like I don't see them as often or as frequent, but I give them um their their training plans and I've gone through different systems over the years in terms of rehab softwares, training softwares, and just like you know, nothing really fit how I wanted it to do to be. And so, and then that's how I ended up creating my own. And I'm sure we'll get to that in a little bit later. But but that's how I that's how I manage the people that I don't see as often is I'll I'll assess them, we'll do a you know, a few sessions, however many that may be, but then do more periodic check-ins on a monthly basis or every couple months, make some uh updates and and some testing, and then update the program along the way uh that way.

Building KESI And Embracing AI

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Yeah, that's that sounds you know like a really good model, and I'm glad that it's working for you. Now, one thing that we always one of the reasons we have so many physical therapists that come onto our podcast and we connect with them is because uh we believe for as trainers is that we can work with uh, you know, going through our program learning of like you know, proper anatomy, progressions. Um, we have like a level two certification that we offer for soft tissue mobilization, which which helps down regulate uh our clients' uh uh pain sensory response if they're dealing with like chronic stuff. But there's a scope in which we can work with. And when uh clients are presenting with red flags and things that are, you know, they have some sort of like acute injury, there's something where if we take them through you know different like shoulder movement screens and where they're uh aren't able to pass those uh kind of movements of those uh uh checkpoint movements, then we need to refer out. And uh that's why it's important for us to have physical therapists on our team that we can uh uh either you know call, send to, uh talk with. But uh I do know that we have trainers that have expressed hey, I don't really have a good physical therapist in my area, or sometimes clients are hesitant to uh go that route or they're kind of nervous because of, well, I'm already paying uh a trainer, you know, I'm not sure if I can you know afford to do both. And that's where I think there could be a lot of value in what you've uh you know created with this online AI-based app that you have, or KESI. So and if am I saying that right? Is that how you pronounce it as KESI? Okay, yeah. Uh first of all, before we jump into that, I'm kind of curious where the name came from and if it has any kind of deeper meaning or tie in for you. Um, but then if you want to just kind of take it from there and go into what the app does, when it's appropriate to use, um, and how that can maybe like benefit not only clients and people that are dealing with pain, but then also like trainers um if they have clients that they feel like could use a little bit more in the terms of the therapy side of things.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Yeah. Um yeah, so the the the name, that's always a hard thing, right? Even with kids, it's a hard thing like, what would you name this kid? Uh same thing with uh same thing with the app. Um my business is kinetics physio. Uh, and so I want it to be phonetically similar, not too far different from that. I didn't want it to be exactly the same. I wanted it to be short, um kind of weird, a little futuristic, robotic sounding. Um, and also not, you know, already uh no, I didn't want any like conflicts in terms of domains and social handles and things like that. So things that are a little bit more, you know, they they matter, but a lot of times people ignore that kind of stuff. And so, you know, there wasn't a lot of um, you know, there weren't any conflicts or anything like that in in terms of the name itself. So um I wanted it to be short though, and and you know, kind of a little, you know, futuristic sounding sense. It is incorporating AI. And I think that is a big um, you know, obviously that's where things are heading. And I got into it, or I at least I started having these ideas about something like this a couple of years ago. Like Chat GPT started coming out and you started to play around with that and see like what its capabilities are. Um so not really being like, you know, afraid of AI because it's not going anywhere. People are gonna use it regardless. But so how can I work with AI to create something that's gonna be really valuable for people, uh, very accessible for people, you know, to you know, for people that are remote. Um obviously I, you know, I I live here in Orange County, but I want to have a bigger scope than that. Um, so make it more you know, very accessible for people, um, cost effective as well. Uh to your point about being able to afford um an online or even an in-person PT in addition to a trainer, you know, obviously cost setup, right? So I'm very uh cognizant of that. And so that was a big factor in terms of you know making it accessible, affordable, and also not sacrificing any of the quality from an evidence-based perspective that I would give someone in uh for like an in-person patient. So that was the whole idea behind it. And then just the the AI tools that are available now just made it easy to build the the thing that I had in mind for you know going on a couple of years now.

When To Use The App

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Because I like what you said though about not being afraid of the AI, but understanding that it's a part of our technologies, a part of our everyday lives now. Because we I get this, I see this a lot with with our trainers. They're like, you know, well, my clients just want to utilize AI, you know, for the workout programs and build, and it's like, well, there can be some value to it, but I think there's like this fear within our industry of AI is gonna take over, people are just gonna utilize AI for all of their stuff. And it's like it's not about uh uh uh taking away with what we do because we know that there's still a lot more value in working one-on-one with a qualified fitness professional, uh, right? I mean, it's if you had someone that was like, hey, what's my best option? Uh uh money's not an issue, time's not an issue, should I utilize the app or should I come see you? Uh you're gonna be the better option to uh to help guide them, but that's just not uh uh accessible for everyone. And it's also in terms of scaling business, we uh we always tell our trainers we you want to have like a 60, 30, 10 model. So like 60% of your revenue is coming from your in-person stuff, uh 30% can come from like uh online coaching or some other kind of like lower touch point, and then 10% where it's uh referral or programs they can buy and stuff where it's completely like kind of like no touch uh stuff. And so uh utilizing the tools and the technology that we have to scale, I think is hugely uh valuable. But I do believe that you have to have a real uh belief in the value that you bring with your service, where it's like, hey, this isn't taking away from what I'm doing, it's adding uh to what I'm doing, where I can scale my business and I'm also making things more accessible for clients that normally wouldn't be doing anything in terms of the rehab and dealing with their pain. Uh so uh for the clients and people that might be wanting to utilize uh technology like this, like who is this most appropriate for? If someone were to, you know, like say play basketball, come down on the knee, feel a pop, would it be kind of okay, uh uh hey, this could still be something that could help you if you feel like maybe you did something traumatic? Or is it more for people that have been dealing more with chronic pain, can't quite figure out what's going on? Like, so who is this mostly built for? Um and at what point would you say, okay, maybe go see someone in person, get some further evaluation before utilizing something like this?

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Yeah, those are good questions, because obviously the you know, there there's the there's the clinical aspect of the responses that I've trained uh Kezie to give people, but there's also you know lines as far as what guidance is appropriate, how long, how what should the person uh, or or when should the person actually be using the app versus go see someone in person, right? So if it's a it's an if it's an acute injury, um, someone's not already using KESI, for example, acute injury, like you said, comes down, knee sprain, something like that, swells up, limping, all that. Um, the the clear answer is see someone in person, right? That's still the default best practice. Get it an accurate diagnosis so that you understand the the current problem in terms of tissue injury, phase of healing. Length of recovery, what the total recovery would probably look like. But then from there, then you start to have some options once you get past the acute injury phase, where acute injury is important because obviously there's a lot of swelling, there's a lot of pain, there's a lot of movement compensations that happen. So during that phase, it's important that you still work with someone in person if you have the option to do that, so that they can help you get the swelling under control, first of all, because swelling is going to contribute to the pain, it's going to contribute to the range of motion limitation, it's going to inhibit muscle firing, like of the quadriceps at the knee if it's a knee injury. And then, of course, the gait changes and movement changes that are secondary to that, both from the injury and the pain and muscle inhibition, but also just the compensations that become normal after that. So that's still the best option when you have an acute injury. That said, if you don't have someone in person or don't have someone good in person, you still should get an assessment, a diagnosis. But KESI is capable of taking you from acute injury, acute phase all the way to the later stages of return to sport. And it does that with some evidence-based uh rehab protocols that I use with my patients on a regular basis. I use protocols that there's a company called Vauld out of Australia, V A L D. So Vauld has these evidence-based protocols that um range from ACL reconstruction to hip labral tear to rotator cuff tear. So there's several protocols that exist, and it takes you from acute to um to return to sport. So I use these protocols with my patients in person. And so those are the primary ones that I built into my into the apps to help guide people through it. And so then there's some nuance in terms of what people's schedules are, what equipment they have access to, all of that. So it customizes it based on all of those factors, but at least it gives you the general, you know, structure based on the on the protocols. Um so you are able to make progress even on the in the acute stage, even though it would be preferable to be with someone in person, at least until you've restored your basic day-to-day functions again. You know, good range of motion, adequate strength for daily activities, right? You're you're feeling starting to feel confident again. That's when I would really say, like, okay, now is a good point where you've had you can handle most of the day-to-day stuff, and then you can progress and piggyback off that using KESI, especially if you have uh limit limitations in time. Um, if you're starting to feel like you're not getting as much out of the PT sessions anymore because of the factors we talked about before, with um, you know, just insurance limitations and um physical therapist time with the patients and all these all these issues that exist, uh, at that point it's a good it's it's more reasonable to transition to something like KESI to continue building on and progressing from when you're starting to feel good. And that's a big uh a big topic, just to just to close the loop on that, is why in terms of a big reason why I wanted to develop KESI was because if you have an injury and you do nothing, eventually you will feel better. That's the nature of healing and recovery. Like our bodies do a really good job of healing. But and I'm sure you guys see this all the time with working with your clients, you know, obviously your clients have had injuries and pain and things. Um, but people develop compensations and workarounds like very quickly, you know, after an injury, right? So they can get by and you can do your day-to-day stuff, and you don't really notice that there's range of motion limitations or there's control limitations somewhere, but you still feel good, so you think you're better, right? And so that transition, that middle phase there is where a lot of people uh I think struggle and end up, you know, not feeling like they made a full recovery or they get setbacks or kind of can, you know, recurring flare-ups, or they end up just stopping an activity or a sport altogether because they're like, okay, this is just what this is just how it is now for me, right? I feel better, but you know, I'm not quite there yet. So that was a big, a big um, a big point of why I wanted to build something like Kesi was to help people actually get through the whole, you know, middle and later stages of the rehab process after you already start to feel better so that you know for sure what your body is capable of doing and you can check those boxes instead of like just going back to normal routine, normal life just when you start to feel good.

Load Management And Human Oversight

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense. And I could see like how valuable that can be for uh you know people, because as you said, it's it's the nature of uh it hurts, don't do anything, uh let it heal, which it will, but then it's uh then it's as soon as you're uh done, especially when you're working with athletes, like I work with a lot of hockey players, uh, and it's uh you know, something hurts, I gotta stop playing, I gotta stop doing anything when it recovered, then you just jump right back in the plane and then you get hurt again, and then you either think I can't do anything, or if you're trying to do strength training stuff on your own and you get hurt, then you think you start associating like the movement is bad, or I'm just too old or I'm broken. So I think being able to give an accessible uh blueprint, I think is uh is really valuable. So I think that's that's cool that you've created something that uh uh uh makes uh movement uh more accessible for them. I'm kind of curious because I know one of the main things you know that we uh teach on and that that you're big on is just you know making sure that you're having like proper load management. Is are there like a check-in process where they're checking in with you uh, you know, every so often, where they're doing like a phone call or messaging you or doing some sort of form that they're filling out to make sure that the program is appropriate for them in terms of how either fast or slow they're they're progressing. Um and then is there a way for like that to be adapted as they go?

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Yeah, so those are some of the fundamentals in terms of just our physiology and how our bodies adapt, right? Is we have to have our proper progressions and load management. And we have to understand that when we have a when we're in pain or we we're injured and our body says, hey, we've got to shut it down a little bit, like we can't just shut it down for a week or two or however long and then go back to the same intensity afterwards, right? That's a big spike in then in what we're our bodies are are used to doing, even if it's only a couple weeks uh different, right? So Kesi does have a uh a tracking system in terms of tracking people's uh load management using tonnage, which you're familiar with, but just basically tracking people's volume of of uh overall um of all their lifts, all their exercises. It also tracks their pain and their and their RPE after each exercise as well, or actually after each um uh workout as well. And so that we're using all of this data, we're using the tonnage to uh to get an idea of their uh external uh load on the body. We're assessing their RPE, which is their internal, their subjective base um uh report of intensity, right? And then also their pain responses as well. So um all of all of the clients' responses within KESI based on all of those things. Um after every workout, they log their pain and RPE. So that gets automatically uh reported after each workout. And then the volume is automatically calculated after they enter their weight and their sets and their reps for every exercise and every workout that they do. So that's automatically tracked in their dashboard as well. Um, but I think an important thing with KESI is I wanted to make sure that I'm working with the AI and not just letting the AI handle everything. So the AI handles the day-to-day questioning, the progressions of the program, modifications, regressions. So the AI is very quick, obviously, to be able to do all of this. And that's where the cost effectiveness comes in, is let the AI handle a lot of those tasks so that my time doesn't get taken up doing those things because that gets more expensive again, right? For people, then it becomes like, you know, the more that I have to interact, the more it costs for them, right? So the AI can handle most of that. All of the their information gets synced over to my coaching dashboard. So every workout that someone does, every time a pain level from one workout to the previous level exceeds a certain threshold, I get an alert. So I'm still supervising everything and just letting AI handle the day-to-day stuff and the all the questions, modifications, all of those things to make it very quick, uh easy, accessible, cost effective for them, but also give um gives them a peace of mind knowing that I'm still watching on the back end and supervising things and intervene when I need to. If there's a situation that KESI can't help with or that it knows that it can't give a good response to, it'll direct them to book a coaching call with me so I can give them a little bit better direct insight in terms of if they need to go see someone in person or if this is something that we can still just manage within the app. So that's a kind of a safeguard in terms of how the app runs to make sure that um that things aren't getting uh missed throughout someone's recovery process or training process.

Performance Testing And Return To Sport

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Yeah. I love that. And because it's you're utilizing the its strengths, but you're still, you said you're supervising. And that actually was gonna be my question is how do people you know really know if what they're getting is you know, still like a good protocol and the fact that, you know, whether it's just you, you know, eventually it becomes like a team, but like having that, I think, supervision and those check-ins, I think it's huge. I always tell people when I'm utilizing, you know, AI, or if you're gonna do this stuff, it's like treat it like the smartest executive assistant you're ever gonna have, but it's not the boss. Like you're still the ones that got to call the shots, oversee all that. And I think uh this is a really cool way in which you can kind of integrate that of uh making things more accessible against scaling your business, but still doing it in a way that's uh uh going to be uh properly progressive and where you can still intervene when when it's necessary. So I think it's a really cool uh uh tool for your clients to be able to use. I think for trainers that are listening to this, um, I would recommend, you know, kind of checking it out and seeing if you're someone that's struggling with finding a good physical therapist in your area where like maybe this could be an option for some of your uh you know, for your clients, and you can kind of check in and see what they're doing. And uh when we tell our uh the way we teach programming for our trainers is utilize what we call a uh CCA, so core core accessory, where you're doing like two core movements and then doing an accessory exercise that's gonna be so you're thinking about like your uh upper body compound, lower body compound, and then doing something that's uh more like single joint ab training, cardio, or rehab. And it's where it's they're utilizing an app like this, where it's hey, maybe there's some exercises you can help kind of integrate within your programming. Uh and I think getting valuable resources uh like this from you, from other physical therapists is hugely beneficial for growing and scaling and to make sure that you're doing everything that's necessary for your client to see long-term success. Um, so I think it's really cool the way you're integrating this and the way you're leaning into the technological advances and not running away from them, which is what you see a lot of people doing. They're demonizing AI. And I think we can easily rely on it too much and try to, you know, take the personal aspect out of it and the value that working with the person one-on-one, you know, brings. But at the same time, like you said, this technology looks like it's here to stay, and we gotta learn how to adapt and integrate it and apply it because at the end of the day, it's what's best for our clients, what's best for you know the industry, and it's uh but it's a tool, it's not the you know, and I'll be honest. And I think you've done a great job of developing a tool that's very uh uh applicable for and for yourself, for clients, and for I think trainers should check this out and take a look at it and see how they can uh help apply some of the stuff to uh working with their with their own clients, especially if they're like we said, struggling to connect with uh a DPT and other fitness professionals in their area. Doesn't mean it takes away from that, but I think it's something to add in. Um I know uh your time is very valuable. I don't want to keep you too long, but is there anything else in terms of you know with KESI that we should know in terms of kind of what future projections look like and how like this you know would scale, how trainers can utilize this tool uh you know going forward? Um anything else like we want to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

I think uh just to have one final point on there, um, and would be to say that one another reason I wanted to build something like this was to be able to help out a lot of the uh the clients that are working with trainers, right? Because if someone's working with a trainer, they are already, if they've made that decision and commitment to do that, they are they're already invested in themselves, they want to improve in whatever the aspect that is for them. But and and trainers like the ones that are in your group and you know, organizations like Active Life, there's there's some good organizations that are that do a good job of training up their their trainers and coaches to be able to deal with a lot of the day-to-day little tedious things that come along as far as pain and injuries and whatnot. Um, but I think where Kesy is really helpful is even like on a on an intermittent basis of retesting someone's physical abilities and their capacities. Let's use an example of an ACL reconstruction and coming back from that, and and then you see the uh that that client you know months down the road after the injury, but you know, they're maybe 80% of the way back in terms of how they feel, right? They're not quite there yet. Um, Kesi does a good job of incorporating also uh their performance data using um, again, back to Vauld, the company that has the protocols. They also have equipment like force plates and dynamometers and speed gates, timing gates. So there's these different technologies that are available now that are really important, they're very helpful to use to help um educate someone in terms of their readiness for actually being back to that 100% and not just like 80% to 90% back, right? So sometimes that might be good enough to be 80% back, 90% back. But if you really want that full progression back, because he integrates with performance data at a location that has the force plates and all these things. But it's a good option to consider if you're working with someone on a regular basis and referring out for like a once-a-month or every like six-week like in-person testing at a facility that has that equipment. And you guys or the trainer, the coaches, would still handle the bulk of the day-to-day stuff, but that gives you guys good insight in terms of, oh, this person's landing eccentric deceleration impulse is still a little bit off on this side. Basically, that tells you guys, all right, we need to work on some more landing mechanics, a little bit more eccentric loading, and you know, those types of drills. So it helps to really hone in the programming, but also educate the the client in terms of getting fully back to where they want to be for the that hockey player, athletic, you know, active adult or whatever level of an athlete you are. If you have those high levels of expectation for yourself, it's it's good to go through and and do this kind of testing.

Where To Find KESI

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Yeah, I love it. I love kind of the vision and where this can eventually go for you. And I think it's great again that you've created something like this that makes movement and therapy more accessible for people. Um I really appreciate your time and you coming on. Uh, this was great. Can't wait to get this out to our trainers. Uh, for those that are listening and they want to check out Kezzy, they would love to, you know, maybe connect with you and collaborate some point down the road. Where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Yeah, so the social on on uh Instagram is uh Kezzy Coach, uh Kezzy underscore coach for um for Kezi specifically. Uh more of my kind of my in-person page is kinetics physio. And so that's where I handle, I do more of the kind of the exercise demos and that type of stuff. And then Kezzy is where you would find a little bit more of the ins and outs of what the app uh itself can provide.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Love it. Remember that the uh the best trainers, best fitness professionals out there, they continue to learn, they collaborate, and they're connecting with the right people. So encourage everyone that's listening to this to make sure that you go follow along with Dr. Waldman, um, check out the app, find a physical therapist in your area. I know you're out in the Orange County area. We actually got a seminar that's going to be out there this weekend. And so I think I think tomorrow and Saturday I'll be at. I can't remember exactly which gym we'll be at, but doing uh some of that in person learning. Uh so appreciate your time, appreciate you all being here to listen. And uh thanks for showing up, and we will see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

All right, thanks for having me, Adam. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Welcome.