PSP 41 | Growing in Prayer without Guilt- Spiritual Disciplines Series

In this episode of the Pursue Reality Podcast, Pastor Lindsey sits down with Pastors Joe and Calvin to talk about the spiritual discipline of prayer. They share honest stories, name some of the struggles we all face, and offer simple, practical ways to make prayer part of everyday life—like using Bible apps or praying through the Psalms. Together they remind us that prayer isn’t about following a rigid formula, but about walking with God in real relationship. You’ll leave encouraged to take small, doable steps toward a deeper and more authentic prayer life.

Mentioned in this Episode:
Books:
Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster
With: Reimagining the Way You Relate to God by Skye Jethani

Prayer App:
Lectio 360 by 24-7 Prayer (only available on iPhones)

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Transcript

Speaker 1 00:00:10  You're listening to the new reality podcast from Reality Church. Each episode is a conversation about what it means to be real people pursuing a better reality in Jesus.

Lindsay 00:00:25  Hey everyone, this is Pastor Lindsay. Before we get started on this episode, we just wanted to let you know that we had a few technical issues, so the quality is not as great as we would have liked it to be, but the content was so valuable. We think you're still really going to enjoy the conversation, so enjoy the episode. Welcome everyone to the Pursue Reality podcast. It's good to have you with us and this series that we're doing on convergence. What does that even mean? We're about to find out. And I've got two friends that are going to help me find it out. My name is Lindsay. I'm one of the pastors at Reality Church, and I have Pastor Joe with me.

Joe 00:01:01  Hey, everybody.

Lindsay 00:01:02  And I got Pastor Calvin with me.

Joe 00:01:04  Hello.

Lindsay 00:01:05  And I'm excited for today. We are in a series as a church called convergence.

Lindsay 00:01:11  where we are. It's a sermon series. It's. Our small groups are going through it. We're we're talking about this idea of the Spirit's work in our lives. but there's in Scripture a lot of different ways the spirit works in our lives. Scripture talks about spiritual gifts that he graces upon us to do special things for him. talks about the spirit, power and presence moving and doing significant things, but it also talks about spiritual disciplines. And we want to talk about that in the series that we're in is talking about the different disciplines. The word discipline feels a little down.

Joe 00:01:48  It's hard.

Lindsay 00:01:49  It's already I just feel a little, Eeyore in my soul. But it actually is a really good thing. I wish maybe we could call him spiritual Practices feels a little a little nicer.

Joe 00:02:00  A little nicer.

Lindsay 00:02:01  Yeah.

Joe 00:02:02  Disciplines. I'm like. I think of exercise for some reason. Yes. It's like.

Lindsay 00:02:06  Something we don't want.

Joe 00:02:06  To do. We don't necessarily want to do, but we like it afterwards.

Lindsay 00:02:09  Yeah.

Joe 00:02:10  As a parent of a toddler.

Lindsay 00:02:11  Discipline means I'm different.

Joe 00:02:14  Yeah. Means I feel very confused. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay 00:02:17  Well, let's call them practices. Yeah. And, well, spiritual practices are or disciplines, as we call them, are just these regular practices that we do in our lives daily and weekly and monthly and sometimes yearly. we're Richard Foster, who's kind of the the guru, the Jedi warrior of spiritual disciplines. talks about them as a God ordained means by which we place ourselves where he can bless us. and they're not the pathway to righteousness, but they do lead us along this path to Jesus, not because we're trying to earn something from him or gain his blessing or make him like us more. But it's almost kind of putting positioning ourselves in a place where we can know him, experience his blessing, experience his presence, and be with the one that we most treasure and become like him over time. Somehow it does its work. So the one we wanted to talk about today was prayer.

Lindsay 00:03:25  this is something that through the ages, Christians have practiced the discipline of prayer these regularly, coming and communicating with God. And so I just wanted to start out with when we say the word prayer, which sounds very spiritual, right?

Joe 00:03:41  Very much.

Lindsay 00:03:42  So. What what real Christians do, what comes to your mind personally? Like, how would how do you think about it? How would you describe what what is this thing called prayer? Joe.

Joe 00:03:53  Oh, yeah. Prayer is an amazing thing to think about when you think that we talk to God and he hears us, and it's actually happens like that. It's not just something we read about in the Bible or something. We talk about a podcast, but we talk to God and and he hears us. And so for me, that's a beautiful thing. sometimes that's easy, sometimes it's not. But what's almost always harder in talking to God is hearing him back or sensing what he's saying to me. back. and, but when I think of prayer to answer your question, Lindsay, it's this conversation between me and God.

Lindsay 00:04:45  Yeah. What about you, Kel?

Joe 00:04:47  Yeah. I think it's shifted over the years. You know, like, I feel like growing up as a kid, like, prayer was like I asked God for the things that I want or the things that I maybe even need. Mostly my wants, because as a kid, all my needs were supplied. Yeah. but it's very much so become a, just a kind of being with God and and kind of a conversation, but like, a mutual speaking and and sensing and and just trying to look to him, hear from him and, and also just express my those same needs and wants. Right. but also just express my daily gratitude for his work in my life.

Lindsay 00:05:31  Yeah. Do you feel like for you, Joe, it's it's changed over the years. Your understanding or even your experience of prayer has changed over the years?

Joe 00:05:40  Yeah. I think, growing up, like al, I was, praying and things that I wanted. And, I remember being very afraid of, things outside of my window at night, you know, and I would pray and ask God to help me.

Joe 00:05:57  And, and I remember the kind of memorized prayers that my mom would have me. It's amazing. My mom did this, and it was so awesome. Get down on my knees before the bed, you know, before I went to bed. And we would recite these prayers. And they were very one dimensional in nature, and they were me expressing things. I think then when I was into a Christian, there was a lot of, thinking around, what if I don't pray? something could happen or I could miss out on something. And so it was a lot of me talking to God about things that I was pretty sure were his will. Sometimes they were, sometimes they weren't. And, And that was good. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. but I think it feels like to me, I'm going to be 52. And over the years, it's evolved much more into, sort of like sitting with a grandparent that you love that has this, complete comfort and just not talking or talking.

Joe 00:06:55  Yeah, but being together in the presence of someone that you love and and sort of seeing what happens. Yeah.

Lindsay 00:07:03  Yeah. I think that it is. I like asking people how their experience or perception of prayer has changed, because I think it's perfectly normal for our understanding and experience of prayer to change over the years, and even appropriate in our different stages of our relationship with God. And I think, I know growing up there was kind of this ideal of what prayer looks like or how much you do or what you say, or you know, all those things. And I actually think it's really, appropriate, different stages of our life and our relationship with God. It looks hopefully it would look different, like a good friendship or a marriage. Your conversations when you're first dating don't look like your conversations, you know, 20 years in or 30 years in, it does start to change, and I think that can be very freeing just to even hear you guys, talk about that.

Joe 00:07:59  Yeah. And it's also uncomfortable when you don't understand how you're changing with it, because you could feel like I'm losing something with God.

Joe 00:08:07  That or my things are too dry or, I used to think that I was close to God, and now I feel like I'm not. And a lot of times, it's God shifting us into a new season. And, being aware of that, is helpful, I would say.

Lindsay 00:08:26  Yeah, I think I think you're right. And discerning that and being. Yeah. Really good.

Joe 00:08:31  Yeah. Just a little plug for our small groups if I could. Because those kinds of things, if, if you're not with other people and you're not able to talk them out with a small group or with a mentor, somebody that's a little bit ahead of you, it's hard to you can get pretty frustrated and not understanding that the Lord is leading you into a new season for whatever reason.

Lindsay 00:08:52  So let's talk about that a little bit. As far as like sometimes it feels hard to pray. Or when I think of spiritual disciplines, I think of, in prayer. I'm trying to think if I've ever met anyone that's like, yeah, I pray enough.

Joe 00:09:11  So true.

Lindsay 00:09:12  Right. And and they're at peace with it. And or I'm happy with my prayer life with God or whatever. I don't know how you describe it. Why do you think it feels so hard to pray at times? Or why do you think we we, most often say, I don't pray enough? Like, what are the obstacles there? Because if we're thinking about, as a church wanting to grow in spiritual disciplines, just these practices that make us, available to God in his heart, make us available to his work in our life and joining with him. Prayer is so special. But yet it's the one thing that we are like, oh, I don't feel like I've ever done it well or well. Yeah. What's behind that, do you think?

Joe 00:10:00  I think that it's.

Lindsay 00:10:02  I'm sitting on the therapist. Your help.

Joe 00:10:04  I think it's it's like super common for believers. at really at any stage in your journey with, with the Lord to kind of adopt these incomplete postures and misconceptions of your relationship with God.

Joe 00:10:21  And it's and it's hard to to not think that you have to earn the relationship in some manner. but in actuality, like these disciplines are their disciplines, not in the way that they're shaping God in any way. like when you when you pray, you're not drawing God in like you're training, you're disciplining yourself to draw yourself, to push yourself in closer to the Lord. It's not a I have to pray, pray, pray, pray, pray and that's going to pull God in. It's know I'm praying, praying, praying because I'm I'm starting to sow my soul, tether my soul, whatever you want to phrase it closer and tighter to the Lord over time. I don't need to earn his presence or even necessarily like evoke his presence. I need to stir my own soul to be more aware of his presence. That's always accessible.

Lindsay 00:11:26  So it's really good.

Joe 00:11:27  It is good. Yeah. And I was thinking when you were saying that call of, the old radio dials, when you would, you would tune, tune and change.

Joe 00:11:35  You would get to a station, it would be fuzzy or whatever. And then you'd get to a station, you would hear, what you would want to do. Yeah, I've only seen that in TV and not I wasn't going to say it, only slightly joking, but I feel like there's a little bit of what you're saying that's connected. It's, it's tuning ourselves away from the world and. And a little bit more connected. Yeah. to God. And, I was also thinking. Lindsay, you asked the question. Remind me the question again.

Lindsay 00:12:02  Why is it so hard or. We never feel like we're quiet? What's the finish line?

Joe 00:12:06  Yeah, if I were if I were to be very honest about it, I would say there's definitely, seasons where I can understand where somebody says sitting in a chair, looking at my Bible by myself, and I need to talk to a being that I don't see. it's not very motivating.

Lindsay 00:12:26  I think that's really good. I was thinking of that, too.

Lindsay 00:12:29  Like, if we were described to someone who doesn't believe in Jesus, what we're doing. It's. It's an unusual thing.

Joe 00:12:37  Yeah. And it's and it's very hard depending on your personality. Yeah. The the stereotypical way of praying is difficult, and I just, I wonder how many of us, if we thought a little bit more about what's a fun activity I would like to do with a friend, and I might be doing with a friend or with a with a spouse out of that. How could I incorporate the Lord into that? So our beans are stimulated. Right. We're we're alert. We're alive. We're enjoying whatever it is. How can I bring God into that? as part of that experience. Because I don't think the God cares if we're sitting on a chair where the Bible is open and struggling to stay awake and talking to him, or if we're out for a run or we're out for a good dinner, or we're working on something in the yard.

Lindsay 00:13:27  Or a walk. Right.

Lindsay 00:13:29  Working on a creative project.

Joe 00:13:31  Yeah, whatever you enjoy.

Lindsay 00:13:32  Yeah.

Joe 00:13:32  Bringing the Lord into that is, one way that we can come alive a little bit with it. somewhat of a contrast, but I think a both and is like, I think God absolutely blesses when you do step into something that's more disciplined. But I would encourage people that like, you don't need to bite off more than you can chew. There was a season in my life where like my prayer life, my prayer at the end of the day was I read the same two verses of a psalm. It was 30s Max. I didn't have much else to say, just what I was going through in life. I didn't have much else to say, but I just said God like just in obedience to you. I'm just going to pray these words. and I felt like that sustained me through that, that season. So I think he blesses like I think it's a both and for sure, like don't put the pressure on. Don't fall into the trap of like I have to do the rugged, very counter me discipline.

Joe 00:14:32  But what's one thing that you can push in a little bit just to show some sense of, you know, some like initiative of obedience, that's beyond that, positioning yourself intentionally in a certain like in a time to spend with the Lord. Yeah, but absolutely, it should seep out into like, God wants to commune with you over your unique design, the way that he's made you what you love doing. Like he wants to meet with you and that. Absolutely as well. Right.

Lindsay 00:15:01  Yeah, that's really good. That's very good. Okay, I want to ask you guys a question. I don't know if I told you I was going to ask you this. What is one realization you have had about God or who he is that has most transformed your desire for prayer? One if that. Does that make sense?

Joe 00:15:23  Say it.

Lindsay 00:15:24  Again. What is one realization you've had about God or something you learned about him just in your relationship with God, that most has transformed your desire for prayer and to enter into that place that just drew you into it?

Joe 00:15:38  Yeah, I for me, I think it's a lot of what I've been saying.

Joe 00:15:42  So it's a little bit redundant. But, we've read that book with by Sky Giovanni.

Lindsay 00:15:48  Yeah.

Joe 00:15:49  And, it just opened my eyes to all these incomplete postures that I.

Lindsay 00:15:55  Yeah.

Joe 00:15:55  Commune with God through like the, the four from over under which are basically the incomplete or even mostly wrong postures.

Lindsay 00:16:06  Ways of relating to.

Joe 00:16:07  Him. You know, he's he's just the guy I go to to get blessed to receive favor. or he's the god that I have to please. or he's the god that I have to serve.

Lindsay 00:16:20  Or either God I'm trying to control to do. I'm trying to do what I want him to do, which sounds terrible, but we do it. We do it. Yeah. And then when he doesn't do it, we're like, I'm done with this prayer thing.

Joe 00:16:31  Even the most celebrated posture in that is the four. Yeah, that it's like I and I love in that book the, the I think it's fictional, but it's probably barely fictional example is like this girl.

Joe 00:16:44  Like, I think her name is Rebecca. She's like a aspiring med student, and she's like, but I think I need to give up this, and I need to go serve in Africa. Like, I need to go feed orphans. Yeah. And it's like she's not actually even remotely passionate about it, but just feels like she has to abandon her dreams to be a doctor. Thinks God's not going to use her in that way. Like I need to do the do all this when really the final complete posture is just a being with God, just recognizing that these disciplines like they're for us, but they don't evoke anything from God. He just wants you to be with with him.

Lindsay 00:17:23  And out of that place. We do ask him for things.

Joe 00:17:27  Yeah, we because we, we develop a comfortability, a familiarity and a trust in God that we can we can bring all those things to him. So yeah, that's what stirred me. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Kyle, I was thinking when you were saying that, I think first was that he's not mad at me.

Joe 00:17:43  So that was first, you know, a good, my religious background had a good impression on me on that one. And, realizing he's not mad at me no matter what I've done, what I'm thinking, what I haven't done, is freeing. Second, I would say, Lindsay, in your in your question silence and solitude, which is one to go back to what Cal was saying, intentional time, realizing that in the presence of God just sitting. how how actually, he enjoys that, whether or not I'm talking or or in silence. that he hears my. If I want to talk to him. Thoughts? He hears that. yet there's power in spoken word out loud. so that part of of praying, sitting with the Lord, waiting for his impressions on what to say, if anything. And recognizing that he's there with me is has been over time, as I've learned how to tune things out from the world more, how to tune out less, whatever it is I'm taking in and having devoted time with him.

Joe 00:19:00  that's been powerful for me.

Lindsay 00:19:01  That's really good. Really good. So let me ask you, if we're people are listening and they're like, yeah, like I want that. I want to be spend time with the one who is my greatest treasure, where let's get really practical. What is one thing that has been helpful for you? Maybe someone else gave you this advice, I think. there's no, like, right answer because we're all wired a little bit differently. what's one thing that has helped you the most in just kind of making prayer, a more regular practice in your life that maybe other people like. It would help them to kind of start on that in the season that they're in, of trying to also make it regular.

Joe 00:19:49  Yeah, I think if I were encouraging someone, if we were having a conversation, I would ask them what they enjoy and I would figure out how to bring prayer into that. And then I would challenge them beyond that to do what Calvin said earlier, to find the right time in their day, whether it's when they first wake up or before they go to sleep.

Joe 00:20:09  I'll make a plan for what it's going to look like to be intentional and try for, you know, whatever the time frame is to stick to that plan. Yeah. And talking to God. Listening to God. and, many people like things like the Lectio Divina app. It's a 24 over seven prayer movement app. There's lots of other prayer apps that you can do that.

Lindsay 00:20:32  Yeah. Very helpful. Yeah.

Joe 00:20:33  Intentional time.

Lindsay 00:20:34  That's good.

Joe 00:20:35  So what is it you enjoy? How can you bring God into that? And then, Where? Someplace that you can set aside whether it's a minute, five minutes, ten minutes and have some attention all the time.

Lindsay 00:20:46  That's good. And I'll put those links to those in the show notes so people can click on those. What about you, Cal?

Joe 00:20:52  Yeah, I probably have a few, a few practicals, I think, for like the married folk who were listening. I think it's it's super great. I've always taken a page out of you know, Craig Rochelle has always said like, don't ever skip a day praying like with your spouse.

Joe 00:21:09  So like bringing your spouse into like kind of an accountability of each other that like, we're not going to go a day without praying. Whether it even if it's just like the last few moments while you're laying in bed before sleep. just finding that rhythm as as a couple to, engage in prayer, and and it's helpful. Typically, one of you are probably going to be more prayerful than the other, and that's usually helpful. I also have found I. I said it earlier, but I found it really helpful to pray. Psalms. even if it's just 1 or 2 verses. it just gives me language. It feels unique. It feels special. It feels has a spiritual nature to it. and learning how to even like as I'm praying those just be like. Yeah. Like I do actually feel these words and like, you know, internally offering them to God personally. so finding scripture and praying scripture, especially if you're like, I don't know what to pray. Yeah. beyond like, thank you for this food and.

Joe 00:22:13  Yeah. What's it to our bodies like? that kind of stuff. the last thing I would say this day and age, like, the first thing we do when we wake up is grab our devices. So I would probably have some sort of discipline in place that your device isn't next to your bed. If it is, you replace your, Instagram app location with like the Bible app and just hit a verse. The first verse of the day or whatever. It's in a prayerful manner, just is like God. The first thing I do when I wake up today. Prayerful manner I'm going to prayerfully receive this scripture directly from you and I, and I pray that it changes my day. In Jesus name, Amen. Boom. Done. Get up or swipe over to Instagram. And now.

Lindsay 00:22:59  Yeah, I'm getting all social media off my phone. Definitely help with my prayer life.

Joe 00:23:04  It's crazy.

Lindsay 00:23:05  It is. It's interesting too, and everything you guys have mentioned, I've probably done all of those at different seasons.

Lindsay 00:23:12  and some I found helpful. And I come back around to them and some I'm like, oh, I remember I spent like $85 on a prayer journal a few years back. Someone was like, it changed their prayer life. $85 felt like a lot of money to me to spend on a prayer. It was really nice. I think I used it for one week and I was just like, it was like this highly organized personality type person and it just didn't work for me. But it was okay. I didn't beat myself up. I was like, this, this isn't. This isn't for me. praying a Psalm I do a lot of days where if people wonder. We've talked about that before. What that looks like. It's just literally reading a couple verses and just letting whatever comes to you. Like, if it's a Psalm, David's, you know, I'm angry about this. I actually asked my heart, is there anything I'm angry about? I want to tell God about it. And then the next thing you know, God bless the nations and all.

Lindsay 00:24:04  Is there any nation you want me to pray for right now? And then the next thing you know, and I just kind of use what David's praying to kind of guide me, and it really helps me to kind of branch out beyond, like just, okay, God, here's the three things I'm thinking about now. I don't know what to tell you. to just kind of like I find myself exploring and saying things to God. I'm like, oh, that. I didn't realize that was really, really stressful for me. Thank you, David, for writing down your stress so I could also. So yeah, this is really helpful and I hope that it encourages people as you're listening to, see prayer with God, talking to God as a journey and not a destination that will probably be ebbing and flowing and changing for the rest of our lives with Jesus. in different seasons, we've got young kids. It looks different when you're an empty nester and maybe have a little bit more space for silence and solitude and have silence and solitude at your home.

Joe 00:25:04  Yeah. It's limited.

Lindsay 00:25:05  Limited, yeah. About to be real limited.

Joe 00:25:08  Usually for about an hour or two, if you're lucky. Yeah. Between 12 and 2 p.m..

Lindsay 00:25:13  Yeah. When you're not home.

Joe 00:25:14  And I'm not home yet.

Lindsay 00:25:16  So I hope this encourages you. And I really would encourage you to take a simple step this week. even maybe reach out to someone and say, hey, I want to pray more or spend more time with God. Could we text each other a prayer request or whatever that is? ask some mentors or friends what it looks like for them and find something and just try it. And if it if it doesn't stick, that's helpful information. And then you can try something else that will stick, because spending time with the one we treasure the most is always worth it. And it's so special. And we grow in our love for him and experiencing his love over time. And yeah, it is the mark of a beautiful life with Jesus. So I hope you come back to the next episode where we're going to continue talking about the spiritual disciplines and engaging our life with God.

Speaker 1 00:26:07  Thanks for tuning in to the Pursue Reality Podcast. Reality church is a local church in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. To learn more or get connected, visit us at.