PSP 47 | Being Transformed by Service - Spiritual Disciplines Series

In the finale of our Spiritual Disciplines series, Pastor Lindsey sits down with Pastor Joe and Danielle to unpack the discipline of service—an outward practice that forms our inner life. Starting with Jesus’ words in Mark 10:42–45, they reframe greatness as giving away power in love, offering a counter-cultural path that resists recognition and reshapes the heart.

They talk candidly about seasons of life (when serving feels hidden or thankless), the difference between “helping” and Christlike service, and how to cultivate a posture of generosity with our time, energy, gifts, and skills—often in ways no one sees.

An Idea to Get Started:

Pair service with your real life this week—do one unseen and generous act of love. Start by praying,“Jesus, make me aware of where you are serving today—and let me join You there.”  Listen and look to where He might invite you to join him in service as your day and week unfolds. 

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

• Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster
• The Spirit of the Disciplines by Dallas Willard
• Sacred Rhythms by Ruth Haley Barton

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Transcript

Speaker 1 00:00:06  You're listening to the new reality podcast from Reality Church. Each episode is a conversation about what it means to be real people pursuing a better reality in Jesus.

Lindsay 00:00:24  Welcome everybody. My name is Lindsay and it is great to have you back on the final episode of a series we have been doing on Spiritual Discipline series. It's been really, really fun and I have with me two of our resident experts there, laughing. I'd just say that because I can see their faces. I got Pastor Joe with me. Say hi to everyone, Joe. He's this high and I have Danielle with me. Hey there. And we are closing off the series with a beautiful one. A difficult one in some ways because it just hits our hearts. It is the discipline of service. the the discipline of service is unique. maybe from some of the traditional ones because it is, it does something inward, but it is an outward discipline. It's maybe different than prayer or silence and solitude. or fasting because it's communal by nature and it is outward serving by nature.

Lindsay 00:01:27  And so I thought, we could maybe start off with a biblical framing when I think of this discipline of service or the practice of, serving, I think of Jesus's words in Mark ten. I thought I could read that to you guys, and that could maybe kick us off in Mark ten, verse 42 to 45. it says that Jesus called them over. That's the disciples and said to them, you know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lorded over them, and those in high positions act as tyrants over them. But is. But it is not so among you. On the contrary, whoever wants to be great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you will be a slave to all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many. So I don't know if there's a passage of scripture you could spend your whole life on, but if there's candidates for it, this might be it.

Lindsay 00:02:32  Yeah. and this is directly from the words of Jesus, this call that greatness in the kingdom, that the life of the kingdom is a life of service. and as you hear this, how does this frame for us what this discipline of service is, Daniel, what what draws out to you and helps you frame your understanding of this?

Danielle 00:02:53  Yeah. As you're reading that, even though I've read this dozens of times. That part that says Even the Son of Man.

Lindsay 00:03:00  I thought that I. I was like, okay, okay. Yes. I also was like.

Joe 00:03:03  You should pay attention. Yeah, I think I should pay attention to that.

Danielle 00:03:05  Like even the Son of Man who does. And what a I just think of humility. Like what humility? That the one who can definitely claim to be great.

Lindsay 00:03:14  The ruler of the nation.

Danielle 00:03:15  Yeah. Is great. You don't have to even claim it. He is great. The ruler of all is saying even me, I did this. Yeah, I did this.

Danielle 00:03:22  And so what an invitation for us because we're definitely not on that level. So we are. Yeah. Also called to this, life of humility and generosity and for the sake of others doing things for the sake of other people.

Joe 00:03:37  Yeah.

Speaker 5 00:03:38  And I think when, when we were reading, when Lindsey was reading it for me, the thing that stood out was it it thinking of serving Jesus, saying this, the Son of Man doing this, calling us to this, he's calling us to give away power. That's what I think.

Joe 00:03:52  That's good.

Speaker 5 00:03:53  So it's something that we have. We have control. We have power over it. We're giving that away to somebody else in whatever ways that we're supposed to. And we're having to release what it is that God has given us for the sake of somebody else. Yeah, right.

Joe 00:04:15  Yeah, I think that's good.

Lindsay 00:04:17  I, I love Jesus honesty, too, because he frames it like, this is not the way the world. Like this is not.

Lindsay 00:04:24  And I don't care what world you live in. First century Jewish world 21st century. I don't know West African world. North American world. The natural inclination is success. And greatness is attaining power and control. It sounds terrible, but we.

Joe 00:04:44  It is true.

Lindsay 00:04:44  Achievement and degrees and recognition. Awards. And he's it. The other phrase that stands out. It is not so among you, like among you.

Speaker 5 00:04:59  It's this is how you'll be different.

Lindsay 00:05:01  This is how you will be different, right? Well, there we go. Thank you for joining us.

Joe 00:05:06  We don't have any more to say.

Lindsay 00:05:10  So. So what does that look like in the discipline of service? If this is a call of our Christian life, this unique difference, how how does this look as a discipline? Danielle.

Danielle 00:05:24  Oh, I was waiting.

Joe 00:05:25  I thought you'd call on me. She goes first.

Lindsay 00:05:28  Joe, do you want to explain it all to us?

Danielle 00:05:31  I would say the phrase that keeps going over and over in my heart is.

Danielle 00:05:36  It's a practice of generosity. It is a practice of, like what Joe said, giving away. But it's not just giving. It's like generous giving. And we're not just talking financial. I'm talking about our own resources, whatever they may be. Of time, of energy, of talents and gifts and skills that we have, whatever it may be a practice of I am generous. This is not just for me. This is for the sake of others as well that God is asking me to give away, often in ways that nobody sees and nobody's paying attention to, for the sake of other people. So they are on the receiving end of what I'm choosing.

Lindsay 00:06:19  Yeah.

Danielle 00:06:19  To, to do for them.

Speaker 5 00:06:20  And in doing that, you're losing something.

Joe 00:06:22  Yes.

Speaker 5 00:06:23  At least it might seem to the world's ways. Or at first it feels like you're giving away. You're you're losing something and you're trusting that God says it's more important.

Joe 00:06:33  Yeah, yeah.

Danielle 00:06:34  And it's not even like this little. Well, you know, I know God says if I'm generous and I give, then therefore I will, you know.

Danielle 00:06:41  So it's not this bargaining chip with God.

Lindsay 00:06:43  It's a truly.

Joe 00:06:44  It's a true free.

Danielle 00:06:45  And if I don't even get, you know, something, Get something from God out of it, then I. Yeah, it is not mine to keep for myself.

Speaker 5 00:06:55  It doesn't make me more holy.

Joe 00:06:56  Yes.

Danielle 00:06:57  Does it make him love me anymore?

Joe 00:06:59  You know.

Danielle 00:07:00  It is simply my practice of generosity.

Lindsay 00:07:03  So how is this practice of serving different? Because in some ways I would say this is so countercultural. As Jesus says, this is not the way of the worlds that we live in, right? But in other ways, we all serve on some level, like it's maybe there's some extreme cases of people who don't. But in general, we have friends that we help out. Or if you have a family you live with, you know, you do the dishes for them. Or how is the discipline of serving perhaps, different than just I help somebody out or I do that sometimes. Danielle, you I'm picking on you.

Joe 00:07:46  I kid.

Lindsay 00:07:47  You.

Joe 00:07:48  I actually asked you this time.

Lindsay 00:07:49  I actually asked you this before, and I loved your answer.

Joe 00:07:53  Well, one.

Danielle 00:07:54  Of my my first thoughts when we were talking about pre pre the show was just that. Sometimes I feel like we are the ones who separate this up and we try to put it into little categories like well I'm serving my family, you know, maybe I'm a stay at home mom. I remember when I was a stay at home mom, I'm like, okay, I'm doing these things for my family. Then, okay, what am I doing for the church and what am I doing for my neighbor, and what am I doing and what am I doing? What I'm. And it's like, okay, wait a minute. First of all, does the gospel.

Joe 00:08:16  Do that.

Danielle 00:08:16  For us? Like, does it, you know, kind of put us into all these little categories. So I would first encourage that. We kind of let all of that go and say, wait a minute, I'm serving.

Danielle 00:08:25  I'm giving myself over to God. And if it's primarily in my home to the little people or the older people or whoever is there, well, that is my generous service. Is that my is that am I? Do I have a heart of generosity as I am serving there and then? Am I also paying attention to like the other or other ways that God is inviting me to be generous or might be resistant to that. Like, no, I can't help you, Lindsey, because I'm helping all the people in my household. So I personally don't think we need to separate all of that out. That's something manmade. We kind of do. I mean, I'm approaching.

Lindsay 00:09:01  It with a different with that generosity.

Danielle 00:09:04  Element. Yes. I think that's the question for our heart. Like, am I generous in this or am I just like, this is what I have to do? Or here's this two three year old again, and I have to take care of them or give them a bath or whatever.

Danielle 00:09:14  Yeah. Or is it a heart of generosity?

Lindsay 00:09:15  Do my kids see what I do for them?

Danielle 00:09:17  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Especially as they get older, because it's kind of easy when they're younger. Like, oh, of course, you know, the three year old can't do something for himself. But how about the 13 year old, you know, or.

Lindsay 00:09:25  The but it's this reorientation around the scripture of of the greatness is serving.

Danielle 00:09:31  Yes.

Lindsay 00:09:32  And maybe not getting recognition, not being like the Gentiles. Exactly. Getting the award. The certificate.

Danielle 00:09:39  Yeah.

Lindsay 00:09:40  What would you add to that?

Speaker 5 00:09:41  Yeah, I just add I think the, the Jesus calls us to more like when we think of comparing it. And I agree with you, Danielle. I don't think it's good to kind of put it in these different boxes, but I think the world's way is it's like, okay, we do a little bit, we're good. But with Jesus it's just like, no we're gonna, we're you're called to continue to grow into this.

Speaker 5 00:09:59  And part of a spiritual maturity and growing spiritual maturity will be you will become more of a, of a servant. Yeah. And more of a servant without anything to gain but to, to give away yourself for the sake of others. Yeah.

Lindsay 00:10:13  The, Dallas Willard says that service is the discipline of being available to meet the needs of others in love, without concern for recognition or reward.

Danielle 00:10:28  That's so good, but so hard it is.

Lindsay 00:10:31  Yeah. And I, I do think when I think about that whole like we do have opportunities to serve and I love what you're both are saying one kind of changing the disposition of our heart. Like kind of what's motivating. Am I doing this freely with generosity, or am I doing it begrudgingly? Or like, hey, I'm not going to do this if you guys don't recognize what I'm doing? but also the more and I think sometimes that more often is outside the bounds of not just more in quantity, but maybe, more in, well, this is what I do that's kind of beneath me, or I've kind of beyond that.

Lindsay 00:11:14  you know, who I actually think of, and I hope he's listening. But one of our leadership team members, Tim O'Connor, who has an incredible history of faithfulness in local church and leadership in the local church, impacted hundreds upon hundreds of lives. And when he first came to reality, he did the slides for us for music and sermons. And I thought, there's a discipline of service where he could have said, and maybe in his heart, I don't know. God was working with him and growing him. He could have said, do you know, like.

Speaker 5 00:11:44  What I'm capable.

Lindsay 00:11:45  Of, what I'm capable.

Speaker 5 00:11:46  Of? Executive at a huge organization.

Lindsay 00:11:48  Huge organization. Elder at a church for years and years. All this. But there was a need and he said, okay, I can do the slides and learn. I don't know if he was any good at it, honestly, but I wasn't around. He probably does. He probably was. He's a guy. Yeah, that's really good.

Lindsay 00:12:06  so do you think then, that the discipline of service, this heart of generosity and being open to God, saying, hey, there's something here that's beyond maybe what you're currently doing? do you think that it often is connected to a season of life or context? Or if someone's saying, okay, I want to grow in this discipline and be open to this? do they create opportunities? How should they how should they look at that and frame that.

Speaker 5 00:12:34  Yeah. I think the only thing I can respond is out of my own story in that Lindsay. And I think of how many times over the years that Joanne and I have been in the conversation, marriage conversation, and really at the core of it, what she was asking me to do was to help more at home.

Danielle 00:12:53  I notice how your voice lowered.

Speaker 5 00:12:55  It's just this whoa. Like, I just am not very good at that. And and I think of the context when we had young kids and, and there was so much to do, and she was home and there was so much to do, and it was just draining and wonderful, but draining.

Speaker 5 00:13:10  And and I would come home and I was busy as all get out, stressed out and really loved what I was doing and very driven for that. And Joanne wanted, really needed and wanted me to help more. And I just wasn't very good at it. And I was not strong in that. I wasn't disciplined, I wasn't strong enough spiritual, whatever it was. It was also really busy too. You know, that was a part of my world, and part of what I needed as a younger man was the affirmation that I was getting from work that was not there when I was vacuuming and doing the dishes or whatever.

Lindsay 00:13:48  Right. Being great in kingdoms of the Gentiles.

Speaker 5 00:13:50  Oh my gosh. Right. So it's all these all these things combined, made it where it was very hard for me in that season to be, to be good at that. now I'm getting older. The kids are out of the house. I don't have quite the same driven as internally towards what other people think of how successful I am, and I'm more motivated and have the space to serve and love my wife better.

Speaker 5 00:14:17  And so I'm growing in this now. And but if you were to ask me to do what I'm doing now, back then, which JoEllen did, I still I could have been better at it guys. So don't you know. No excuses for us, man.

Danielle 00:14:32  There you go.

Speaker 5 00:14:32  There you go. But at the same time, there are seasons to this that I think are good for us to recognize.

Danielle 00:14:37  Yeah.

Lindsay 00:14:38  Yeah. What would you say.

Danielle 00:14:41  Yeah I think I, I love Joe's story I think. is that dying to self like you know that that part of just saying no to the things that we could be gaining or could be getting for ourselves, but that we are choosing instead to give away, maybe even quietly. So I think about that, you know, when I was a stay at home mom and just like no one is seeing all of this stuff that is happening and doing. And so I think when you're in those seasons, even naming and recognizing, yes, I am doing these things with a generous heart and I am not necessarily gaining here.

Danielle 00:15:13  I'm more giving, is serving is serving. And then also noticing for God's invitations of I'm not trying to give you anything here for yourself. I'm asking you to give away, and to be generous. And so, yeah. Does that answer your question? Yeah. Okay.

Lindsay 00:15:29  Yeah. Okay. So practically, how has God met you in this discipline, have you? I mean, it's it's hard to ask this question because I think all of us are like, gosh, I could have done more or I don't know if anyone's like, man, I kill it at the discipline of service like Hiro, it kind of probably means you have failed at the discipline of service. But at the same time, I think God can meet us. and what has that journey been like for you in your spiritual development and growth of becoming more like Christ for the sake of the world? and yeah, a story or specific example of, just to help us to kind of flesh that out and imagine what that looks like.

Speaker 5 00:16:15  several years ago, I don't know if it was this passage or a different one. I specifically felt like I heard the Lord say to me, Joe, I want you to practice selfless service that nobody, nobody knows about. I just want you to start doing it. And so I've looked for opportunities and prayed about it and found one that for a year, or it was the summer. It was. It was like, lawn mowing. That's what it was. It was lawn mowing for someone that I did that for a year, someone that I knew could use it, and then asked the Lord, what's the next thing? And, again, that was two years ago, and the season I was at, that was what, what I was ready for. And it was something that nobody really knew. Nobody, except for the person that I was mowing for. And I just did it because I wanted to give in that way to this person that I felt like the Lord was asking me to do.

Danielle 00:17:12  Wow.

Speaker 5 00:17:12  That's good. That's just. Yeah.

Danielle 00:17:14  Yeah that's good. yeah. I think I was talking about this a little bit before, but I thought of in this past year where I was asked to speak at a non-profit organization, and typically that's something I would do. And, you know, I kind of give them a little sheet and here's how much I charge and all that stuff. And I just, just really felt like I sensed the Holy Spirit saying, whatever they can give you is what you are to accept if they even give you anything. And oh, that was like a little death because I thought, no, Lord, you don't you see my finances, right? Like you see, you see this need. And yet God was inviting me to just be generous with my skills and to prepare as if I was getting paid triple the amount, you know, and to do well, and to serve that group and to not receive anything or to receive whatever they could give. And, I found the joy in that.

Danielle 00:18:06  You know, I can't say I started off there, but as I began to practice that and say, okay, yes, yes, God, this is this is for you, not necessarily gaining anything for me. There was such joy to be found there. Yeah. It wasn't. I'm saying it now and hopefully nobody from that organization is listening. Yeah, I don't think so.

Lindsay 00:18:24  I don't think so. And just so people that are listening to know, I actually asked them to give specific examples. It's a little awkward to, but yes, I think it's good for us sometimes to just help flush it out a little bit. Yeah. and I love both those examples because for you, it was something out of the ordinary, pastor of a church and, you know, really gifted in leadership and all these public speaking, and you're doing that's kind of that more that out of the box humbling yourself. You know, I'll find someone. I got someone at my.

Speaker 5 00:18:56  Sweeping the floor kind of.

Lindsay 00:18:57  Stuff. Yeah. Or I'll get a teenager at my church to go do that and say, no, actually, God saying, I want you to do that. but I also love this example, Danielle, of another way God leads us in our giftings and skills. Yeah, in our professional services to sometimes God says, hey, you you've got something I want you to release. Yeah. and just be generous with it. Right? Without and without a compensation or anything because it's not about do you deserve compensation? Yeah, you're very good at what you do. but it's not about that, right? Yeah. And how both those examples are so freeing. one, it frees us from, like, demanding, you know, it reshapes our hearts. I feel that, like, it's such a prison to be like, I need people to recognize me. No one thanked me, like, And for you to to just do the simple things that makes us human sized again.

Speaker 5 00:19:56  Right?

Lindsay 00:19:57  And just be simple children with God.

Lindsay 00:20:00  yeah. I think that needing people to recognize is a discipline or a trap for us. Sure. And it's really cute when you're three years old or you have a three year old and, you know.

Speaker 5 00:20:14  Or for recognition.

Lindsay 00:20:15  A two year old. And they they did they did something. Yeah. And they did this ugly painting that you have no idea what it is. And you're like, everyone's clapping and cheering. That's cute. But when you're 33 years old and and no one recognizes and you're like, I'm not doing that again. Like no one's grateful. What sort of churches or community or family or you know what it is. Yeah, man, that's doing more harm to our own souls and to anyone else. Right. and I think that is such a beautiful thing. Richard Foster says this, and I think this is, maybe appropriate as we close off this series to do a Richard Foster quote because he's he's a frequent flyer and all these episodes. he says this, that in service, we experienced the many little deaths of going beyond ourselves and the many little resurrections of finding God's grace.

Danielle 00:21:08  So.

Lindsay 00:21:08  Good and love that that the end of the journey, with our resurrected Savior is not the death, then the journey's not the cross. The end of the journey, actually, is the resurrection. The ascension.

Speaker 5 00:21:20  and there is actual growth in the little deaths.

Danielle 00:21:24  Yes.

Speaker 5 00:21:25  It's not in vain.

Lindsay 00:21:26  Right. It's not.

Speaker 5 00:21:28  Right.

Danielle 00:21:28  And it's working and doing.

Speaker 5 00:21:29  God is working.

Danielle 00:21:30  Yeah.

Lindsay 00:21:31  Trusting him? Yeah. Even when it I. I do think this one can be one of the most like. Oh, I don't know if I like what I'm seeing inside. Yeah. In a wonderful way.

Danielle 00:21:42  Yeah.

Lindsay 00:21:43  In a beautiful way. I actually would invite, people if you're listening and feeling a pull towards this discipline. to maybe just pray a simple prayer, and that is Jesus. Make me aware. of where you're serving today. And let me join you there.

Danielle 00:22:02  Yeah. That's good.

Lindsay 00:22:03  And just see what he highlights. I would not encourage anyone that's listening, to make a big list, right.

Lindsay 00:22:11  Of the 32 things. You know, I'm going to do and all that, but just maybe pray and just ask him. Make me aware of where you're serving today, and then let me join you there. And whatever that is he calls us to. To do that with him. With generosity. Well, thank you everyone for listening. I hope you listen to a good number of these episodes, and I would encourage you to maybe pick a discipline, lean into the Holy Spirit and just ask him, where do you want me to start? Maybe with one of these disciplines. Definitely. Don't try them all. Would you guys agree with that?

Danielle 00:22:47  Yes. At least not all this week.

Lindsay 00:22:49  Not all this week. Try them all. Maybe over the next ten years. Yeah ten years. But definitely don't try them all. That's that's not recommended. That's not a best practice. but just again ask God what's one that you want me to lean into right now. maybe relisten to that episode. Grab one of the resources that we list on most of the episodes we give some sort of resource.

Lindsay 00:23:12  and yeah, start the journey with God. be disciplined about it, lean into it, even if it doesn't feel like something's happening. Trust his work in the process that he's with you. He's growing you. You're experiencing him more. And it's a beautiful thing. Amen.

Speaker 5 00:23:30  Amen. And I want to just close and say, Thank you, Pastor Lindsey, for leading us into.

Lindsay 00:23:35  Yeah, this has.

Speaker 5 00:23:36  Been into this this process of looking at our disciplines and looking at our spiritual practices and providing this as a resource for us at reality and beyond. It's very, very good. And you've done a wonderful job. We appreciate you.

Lindsay 00:23:48  Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. Have a good week, everyone.

Speaker 1 00:23:54  Thanks for tuning in to the Pursue Reality podcast. Reality church is a local church in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. To learn more or get connected, visit us at.