PRP 54 | You’re Not the Only One: Porn, Healing, and Honest Community

In this deeply honest episode of the Pursue Reality Podcast, Pastor Lindsey sits down with David to talk openly about pornography, sexual addiction, and the quiet shame so many carry alone. From early exposure and secrecy to marriage, community, and real healing, David shares his story with courage and clarity.

This conversation explores why “white-knuckling” rarely leads to freedom, how shame keeps us stuck, and why healing is most often found in honest community—not isolation. If you’ve ever told yourself “this is the last time,” this episode offers hope, wisdom, and a better way forward.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 00:00:09  You're listening to the new reality podcast from Reality Church. Each episode is a conversation about what it means to be real people pursuing a better reality in Jesus.

Lindsey 00:00:28  Welcome everyone to the reality podcast. This is Lindsay, one of the pastors here at Reality Church, and I am really excited for today's episode because we are going to be talking about something real, something vulnerable, and something that affects almost everybody's life, whether it's your own personal life or someone that you love. Guaranteed. This topic is relevant to you today, and to help us talk about that, I have a special guest with me and his name is David Rizzo. Welcome, David.

David 00:01:01  Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.

Lindsey 00:01:03  It's good to have you here. and I'm. I'm really thankful that you're here. We're going to be talking today, and you're coming in to share a little your story around the issue of pornography and sexual addiction. it applies to all of that. And we're doing two episodes right now on that topic.

Lindsey 00:01:25  and this is really important for us as a church to talk about, because it's not a side issue. It's not a. Well. Some people struggle with that or there's, you know, a handful of people out there. like I said, it's it impacts. I would I would venture to say 100% of people's lives, whether it's your own life, if you're listening or it is someone that you love deeply. It's guaranteed whether you realize it or not. And, so yeah, thank you for coming and being willing to share your story and. Yeah. and just walk us through a little bit of what you've been through and also the hope and the healing that you found. Maybe we could start with tell us a little bit about yourself. Help us to get to know you.

David 00:02:10  Jump right in there.

Lindsey 00:02:11  Yeah. Who are who is David Rizzo?

David 00:02:13  So I have, becoming a reality for two years at this time. I grew up in Philadelphia. And then I came out to college in Lancaster to to attend Lancaster Bible College.

David 00:02:24  And, after that, I got plugged into a church out here, as a youth pastor. And so that's kind of like where I started living in Lancaster and and then before you know it, we're buying a house and we just, you know, I'm marrying someone from Lancaster, and it's just a full a full cent here, which is great, I love it. Yeah. this is a really interesting dynamic that we're going to talk about because my parents are missionaries. They are, they live in Philadelphia, but they work with different schools in the area and churches in the area. And for a long time in my life, you know, I just grew up, you know, being told what was right and wrong into your life. Yeah. And interestingly enough, as I grew from 13 to 18, where I would would argue like the height of my, struggle with pornography took place, I had the least amount of support, kind of. And, you know, looking back as I'm a, as a, I'm an adult in my 30s, I'm wondering, was it because, you know, the the adult in my life at that time were also struggling with, you know, the things that I still struggle with today? And so, you know, as I was, I was, being a youth pastor out here working with adult ministries as well.

David 00:03:42  there was a specific church I was a part of called Petra Church, which I love, Petra Church to Death. I it was a really great church in New Holland, and one of their biggest focuses was Purity in Men. And they had a couple they had two different programs. So if you didn't like one guy in the other program, you could join the other one. And it was all year round, non-stop. And I was a part of one for a long time and it was great. I really loved it. Connected with some. I'm still connected with a lot of the guys that were part of the program, and then I kept.

Lindsey 00:04:10  The program specifically around pornography.

David 00:04:12  Yeah, it was a conquer series, and there was a branch of like, Men of Irony. Yeah. So there was two different programs. One's a little bit more old school, and the other one is Men of Iron is always trying to come up with new ideas to, to basically make a small group for men.

David 00:04:26  Yeah. and so. Yeah. So then then I came to reality and I started talking to Lindsay and asking about, like, if there were programs for men and things like that and just,

Lindsey 00:04:36  Because conversation going.

David 00:04:37  From 13 till I, I will even say current day, it is an ongoing battle for sure.

Lindsey 00:04:45  So tell me a little bit about that from 13. How how did that begin? Yeah. Like someone you're 13 years old, you're a ministry kid. You're raised in the church. You're love Jesus in the way. Whatever. So you were.

David 00:05:05  I believe.

Lindsey 00:05:05  I were yourself, a follower of Jesus at 13, for sure. Great.

David 00:05:09  And I believe I was saved at 16. Okay. And that's a little bit between me and Jesus. Kind of a thing.

Lindsey 00:05:13  Okay. It's a lot of us have a little cutting back on what the turning point was, but but you weren't like, yeah, I have no idea about.

David 00:05:23  All.

Lindsey 00:05:23  Hidden anything.

David 00:05:24  Yeah. All.

Lindsey 00:05:24  And so something happened at 13.

Lindsey 00:05:27  You got exposed to it. What happened there? Just tell us a little bit about that starting point.

David 00:05:32  So I wasn't allowed to date. So that was just like written off. you know and that's pretty pretty normal. Pretty pretty standard. Very strict, Baptist missionary family. Yeah. So conversations around the other gender just kind of was like a moot point, like it was very rarely didn't talk about it at all. I remember even as I got older, when I did have my first girlfriend around 18. It was very awkward to talk about my to talk about it with my parents, because we didn't create anything at a relationship at a, at a young age. Yeah. So it was all, you know, getting on Facebook for the first time and, just talking with friends at a, at the, at the high school, middle school that I was a part of at the time. It was all these just it was like a, like a, like a, a whirlwind because I had gone to a Christian school up to middle sixth grade.

David 00:06:25  And then when you go to a middle school and you meet other people who have different mindsets and you've just been like, basically glorified.

Lindsey 00:06:32  Walking you.

David 00:06:33  Through it, right? Yeah. Sheltered the entire time. I learned about everything in like 24 hours. It felt like, wow. Like I didn't even know you could go to certain websites before.

Lindsey 00:06:42  Like before that. Yeah. So you get exposed to. I mean, an avalanche. Yeah. In in our digital day and age, this is not, Not small. Right. And what happened from there? Did it? Would you say it quickly? You're like, okay, I'm not supposed to be doing that or I want like. Was it a small part of your life or do you feel like it kind of took over in some ways.

David 00:07:08  For sure. It definitely changed the way that I thought about basically everything. and I can even remember one instant, my dad found my search history at a certain time. Okay. And I think I was like probably 13 or 14 or 15 with one of those.

David 00:07:24  It wasn't very significant. And my dad was reading out to me my search history while I was getting ready for school. Yeah. And I was like, yep, those are the websites I have visited. Yeah. For sure.

Lindsey 00:07:37  You got them. You admitted.

David 00:07:38  It. Yeah. Yeah. And I was and and then I got ready for school and I went to school and then I came home and that was the end. And we never talked about it again. And then I know. And then It even got to the point where I was, with certain girls, sexting, trying to get more and more, you know, from my girl without crossing any lines, right? I wasn't because you weren't allowed to have sex, you know? Oh.

Lindsey 00:08:07  Yeah. There's so much here.

David 00:08:09  Right.

Lindsey 00:08:09  For sure. So you from just porn? You started sexting girls? but in your mind. In your religious mind, you weren't technically crossing what you had been told. Right. Of do not have sexual intercourse for sure.

Lindsey 00:08:29  Okay. And on top of that your dad confronted I didn't say confront. Made you aware that he saw that. Yeah. And then never spoke about it again. For sure. What did that communicate to you.

David 00:08:43  It was it was like well I guess I can get away with this for every day for the rest of my life because I don't remember changing anything.

Lindsey 00:08:50  What did you want your dad to say to you?

David 00:08:52  Yeah, you know, I have thought about that for a long time. And now, as I am a dad of eight months. Yeah, I'm like, what was going on in my dad's life? That he couldn't just sit me down and have a conversation with his 13 year old son.

Lindsey 00:09:06  And in three sentences, what, what your what what do you wish? Looking back as a son, you wish your dad would have said to you?

David 00:09:14  Yeah, I think there would have been like, a time where we could have just been like, not maybe not in trouble, but like, hey, how can I help you? Yeah.

David 00:09:21  And I.

Lindsey 00:09:21  Think in this with.

David 00:09:22  You. Right. And that was giving a little bit of hype back to Petra Church. That was the biggest thing that I learned there that were like, hey, this program is not created to discipline anybody. In fact, it's like the reverse. It's like we're rejoicing that you want to get help. Yeah. And I'm like, weird mindset. Very strange. Because, you know, when you get caught, shame you're done. Yeah. You're in trouble.

Lindsey 00:09:48  Your relationship cut.

David 00:09:49  Off? Absolutely. Yeah. Your wife should be upset at you. Your. Your dad should be upset at you. You should be embarrassed. Yeah. And it's trying to switch that narrative.

Lindsey 00:09:58  And here's a faith lens that says something's gone wrong. You've sinned. Let's use the language. You're caught up in something that's controlling you. Come close. We don't want to push you away. We want you to come close. Right. We want you to be honest. We want to have relationship with you and not break off relationship with you.

David 00:10:18  Right. Exactly.

Lindsey 00:10:20  Yeah. So so you get this message because of, you know, it came out, and then silence fell. Build that relationship. and essentially this message. I can get away with this. I can I can do this to infinity. so what happened through your high school years?

David 00:10:44  Yeah. I praise God that it did not escalate to a to a time or to a place where usually these paths do lead to. I do really do think my parents, to a certain extent to like giving me a grounding of a foundation, but that secret sin of, you know, closing the door, going to bed, having my my, you can have all of the restrictions on an iPhone in the, in the world, and I can still find it. Yeah. And I as can every kid today for sure. And it was just a secret, hidden sin that I continued throughout my. It wasn't until around college where I was like, hey, I probably need to get help, especially at Lancaster County Bible College.

David 00:11:29  And the help I received there is so funny because I believe that they truly wanted to help me, but it was being me being paired up because I sought out help and I was like, hey, can I is there a program?

Lindsey 00:11:45  Or you go through your. Would you say you were pretty addicted compulsively looking at porn?

David 00:11:50  Yep.

Lindsey 00:11:52  And it wasn't just a struggle. You were. We like to use these words with porn addiction. And at college, you asked for help. Okay.

David 00:12:00  Yeah. Yep. And the help that they gave me was like a one on one mentorship with one of the professors. And we would talk and we would have like we would work through Proverbs together. And there was some at the very end, I really appreciated this, this one act of, I would say kindness, but people looking at it would have been like very rude. And he was like, hey, I'm like your mentor. It's been like three years together. I probably can't mentor you anymore because I can't mentor someone at a place where they're struggling with the relationship with Jesus to get them to the next level.

David 00:12:40  It's like you have to figure this out on your own, this relationship with Jesus. And I was like, wow, what a jerk. You're supposed to, like, hold my hand and baby me and. And like you. Like I signed up. I'm paying for this.

Lindsey 00:12:50  Yeah.

David 00:12:51  And at the moment, I was like, what a dumb thing to say. But looking back as a 30 year old, I'm like, yeah, that guy didn't want to waste his time meeting with me weekly, being like, how are you? I'm like, I'm bad. And he was like, okay, good, good. Let's let's walk through it.

Lindsey 00:13:05  So it made you aware that there was some level in you that you didn't. You weren't owning it. You didn't really want.

David 00:13:11  It for sure. Absolutely.

Lindsey 00:13:12  You were hoping he would fix you?

David 00:13:14  Absolutely. Yeah.

Lindsey 00:13:15  Okay.

David 00:13:16  And I feel like we do think that sometimes. Yeah. Especially when it's like when you do get in trouble as a, as opposed to the celebratory of wanting help.

David 00:13:25  Yeah. It's like, oh I'm not good enough, I'm bad, I'm the worst. I'm the I'm the person that struggles with this, the worst in the entire world. And honestly, sometimes I do think that that way that I'm like, I'm the number one. I understand what Paul was saying, and he's like, I'm the chief of sitters. I get that for sure.

Lindsey 00:13:42  Yeah. And so, So your mentor kind of said, hey, yeah, what you heard from him is you actually don't want this, right? You don't want. Sure. I can't.

David 00:13:52  And I seen that. But I definitely was saying that with my actions.

Lindsey 00:13:55  You were saying that with your actions. There's we call it sometimes hit bottom. which I think means something different to different people. But there was you're looking back and seeing there was maybe the sense of like did I really want, want this. Right. Right. and then what happened. So you.

David 00:14:15  Well, then the next stage of my life is like singleness post-college, leading up to marriage.

David 00:14:21  And there was that classic, like, all good. Hey, at least I'm not having sex, you know, before marriage. But I'll figure I'll. I'll nip this in the bud before I get married or as I get married, because it's like, well, then I'll have sex free reign with my wife, and it's fine.

Lindsey 00:14:39  And I don't want to do. Yeah.

David 00:14:40  It's great. I truly believe that even though many people told me like. Well, that's like a common thing. Like, don't you? Like, it's not. It's not gonna fix it. You need to fix it now before you get married. And I was like, don't worry. Look, I'm.

Lindsey 00:14:52  Different.

David 00:14:53  I can turn it off. I can, and.

Lindsey 00:14:55  But okay, you said you could turn it off, but how many times you knew it was wrong and you obviously didn't want to do it because you had gone pursued a mentor? Yeah. And. Yeah. What were you telling yourself during this time? What are other things you told yourself? Like were you trying to control it and saying, okay, I'm not going to do it anymore? Right.

Lindsey 00:15:12  Were you in cycles years?

David 00:15:14  Year long cycles. Like I remember like my freshman year. I'm like going to Lancaster County or like Lancaster Bible College. And I'm like, this is it. You know, I'm going to be a youth pastor. I'm gonna walk in right now, like, like and honestly.

Lindsey 00:15:31  Moment.

David 00:15:31  Like, I don't even want to, like, exaggerate. Maybe like two and a half years of just like, like living for, for in, in living in purity how God wants me to live. And then, just like you just purge it. Just like goes. Like it goes away right away. And then you just like, you know, feel bad for, like, another, like a couple months and then you then that's that was like during the time with the mentor. Yeah. So it was like feeling really good. And you were excited to talk to them. And then there'd be like six months of like being embarrassed to talk to them.

Lindsey 00:16:01  Yeah. So you go in these cycles of months of doing it and then months of.

David 00:16:04  Yeah.

Lindsey 00:16:05  Of self-restraint and then months of doing it.

David 00:16:08  Because then you think you found ways to figure it out. Right? I remember like one was like old school. This is like very this is like back in, like in high school. They're like, you know, sing like, hum like worship songs. And I'm like, yeah, okay. That worked for about like a week. And then one was like praying for the Holy Spirit for, for strength in that time. And that one was really cool too, because it's like, I feel like there was more opportunities for me to grow closer to God, but like, well, it just didn't never worked. You know, it worked for for three months and then it turned off for three months.

Lindsey 00:16:40  And and and shame. What were you feeling when it didn't work? What? Yeah. What were the script you were telling yourself?

David 00:16:48  What? What was that?

Lindsey 00:16:49  What was kind of going on in your head?

David 00:16:51  The. That's the tough part.

David 00:16:55  I, my personality is like created to not have any shame. weirdly enough, that self-confidence, you know, dilemma that I have. So the shame was from like 2 a.m. to 6 a.m. and then ready for the day. You just you have to turn it off.

Lindsey 00:17:12  You'd mask it with self-confidence.

David 00:17:13  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You have to. Or you're you're just gonna you're just world will just corrupt in upon itself.

Lindsey 00:17:19  So you've got all this internally going on that you're trying to manage to. Yeah. The shame. You're trying to keep it Bay. Yep.

David 00:17:25  And that's exactly what led to, my friend who I met out outside of college. so he wasn't like a fake friend. He was actually someone, you know, I did spend time with, and I told him this, like off a whiff, and he was like, yeah, me too. I was like, what do you mean me too? And he was like, yeah. Like every day I'm like, what do you mean every day? And he's like, yeah.

David 00:17:48  Like every day.

Lindsey 00:17:49  Struggle with this.

David 00:17:50  Every day. And I'm like, okay. And then we, we met, at the church that we were going to at that time. And we met other people and they were like, yeah, every day, like 100%. And I'm like, oh, like, we're all out there.

Lindsey 00:18:04  We're all out.

David 00:18:04  There. Yeah. And then that's when I was right about the time when I was joining Petra. Still pre marriage. Yeah. And that was at the time where everyone's like kind of coming together and I'm like, there are men who are in their 40s and 50s who've been married for 20 years. And it's even if they have.

Lindsey 00:18:23  A little script you told yourself was falling apart a little bit.

David 00:18:26  Yeah, yeah. And even if they have everything together, like like kind of what I said, like the binge and purge situation, it's still like right there at the back door. Yeah. And I, Yeah. For me too, it absolutely Like I, I would say this is the time of my life where I am the strongest right now with my relationship with Christ.

David 00:18:45  I think it has a lot to do with my eight month son being born. Yeah, but it's just right there because it's just something that's.

Lindsey 00:18:52  A.

David 00:18:52  Struggle. Yeah.

Lindsey 00:18:53  So you get marriage. Let's talk about that. You get married and did it cure?

David 00:18:58  Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I'm good. Yeah. I'm cured. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. No, marriage was great. marriage is great. no. Absolutely not. It just. It was different. Yeah. And, having to have that conversation with my wife was really awkward. there would be nights that we would, you know, we would engage in an in marriage, and then later at night, I would I would engage in my own personal, pornography. And I looking back and I was like, there's no way. There's no way.

Lindsey 00:19:33  That you did. Yeah. It's hard to believe that you did that.

David 00:19:36  Yeah.

Lindsey 00:19:36  Yeah, yeah. And did that make you aware? Like I'm more sick or ill? I don't know if that's the right language.

Lindsey 00:19:46  Like there's something deeper going on here. Yeah. Then. Because now it's not. I'm a teenager in high school.

David 00:19:53  Right? Yeah. Now you're a 27 year old. Being first year of marriage.

Lindsey 00:19:57  Marriage?

David 00:19:58  Yeah.

Lindsey 00:19:58  And and then having to tell your wife.

David 00:20:02  Yeah.

Lindsey 00:20:03  Did you tell her? Did you hide it from her?

David 00:20:05  Oh, no. Never. Yeah. Never got caught. I had to have that conversation which opened the door to her, sharing with me with things about her life, about her past, about her struggles. And I was like, and this is, I want to say, year two in our marriage. I think that's fair to say. Maybe year three ish, but yeah, definitely year two. and that was really cool. And I'm like, okay. And I feel like we went from, you know, sharing 98% of our lives together to like 98.9% of our lives together. Like, we just I just never had a conversation like this with someone.

David 00:20:43  Yeah.

Lindsey 00:20:44  And and I think that is common for people listening that I talk to so many people is bringing things into the light can cause a lot of difficulties. And for most of us, it will in some way. But there's this other side of it that the connection and the intimacy and the depth of relationship that we long for is actually found in those places. and it opens the door to something really special. Yeah. and it opens the door to a hard road. depending on your marriage and your story. Yeah. but for you guys, it did. It sounds like open to this deeper place for sure. how many times did you tell yourself this is the last time?

David 00:21:31  Since 13 till. Till current day. Yeah. There's no. There's no number. I. You can argue like, every single time for sure. Because especially the way and I learned this doing the Concord series. at Petra church, the binge and purge cycle is the certain specific cycle that I do. So it is like the I'm good for, you know, three months and then I'm like, then I'm bad for three months.

David 00:21:59  And I started even using that as like, oh, don't worry, this is like my binge and purge.

Lindsey 00:22:03  That's an excuse.

David 00:22:04  Yeah.

Speaker 4 00:22:05  Which is still so crazy.

David 00:22:07  To think about. But that's just the the lies of the devil that they that they whisper to you like, don't worry, you're going to be clean for the longest you've ever been. Don't worry. Just like just two weeks.

Lindsey 00:22:18  Yeah.

David 00:22:19  Or even less. Two days. And you're good. Yeah. And. Yeah. So that that every single time it'd be like, oh, this is the last time. And this is going to be the longest stretch, and this stretch is going to take me til. Yeah. To my grave.

Lindsey 00:22:31  Yeah. And So sounds like the turning point was when you got into community with other men. And what did God do in your life through that? How was there a turning point for you? Was there a hit? Rock bottom? Was there? Did an angel visit you?

David 00:22:49  Yeah.

Lindsey 00:22:50  How did you move towards healing? Freedom. What?

David 00:22:57  I think it paralleled, being serious about my relationship with with God and Jesus, very drastically, which, looking back and being like. Yes, I was a youth pastor at 22 years old. Maybe we should rethink before you hire a 22 year old. As a youth pastor, I don't know. You're part of the church still, you know. Yeah.

Lindsey 00:23:18  hey, I think it's.

David 00:23:19  Yeah.

Lindsey 00:23:20  It's real.

David 00:23:21  There's really good a lot of good pros and cons to to both of them. but around that time, post college, finding this community, joining the, I was at Petra church at the time and joining, this men's ministry, I was finding, like, you know, glorify God with everything you do, say and eat. And it's like, yeah, I was like, was I glorifying God and everything in every aspect of my life? And I find that even still relevant today. I'm just like, hey, am I glorifying God in every action that I'm doing between work and my son and my wife? And then it kind of very, very much parallels with, like the secret sin that I would hide.

David 00:24:02  And I think that's the biggest community, the biggest thing that I got from my community, it necessarily wasn't like rock bottom because of how I kind of fell into this, like really cool program with these really cool guys.

Lindsey 00:24:14  I stumbled into.

David 00:24:15  It. Yeah. For sure. and we're just like, yeah, like, hey, how's your heart? Not not just like.

Speaker 4 00:24:21  How are you doing?

David 00:24:22  But like, how how's your heart? Are you living in sin? Do you need to confess something right now? so I know it's not like a cool, like, no. 2 a.m. and an angel came to.

Speaker 4 00:24:31  Me and said, what are you doing? Jesus! What are you doing?

Lindsey 00:24:33  Well, churches, we can be a little guilty. We love those flashy stories. And they're great. They're real for people experience them. and sometimes those stories though can be used for by some of us to be like, oh, I'll deal with this when I hit rock bottom when things get really bad or God appears to me.

Lindsey 00:24:54  but I think a lot of people are just like, yeah, I just went and got help. Yeah, I don't know. I could have kept going for sure, but I didn't. I just went and got help and it, it started this path of, of healing and growth and conquering these sins. and I love just you were in a community that said are you glorifying God with everything? and what are the sins in your life? Because this is the sort of community that scripture talks about where we're not just talking about the surface things for sure. what are what does. What are some of the things that you realize that were really key for you in your journey? I think it's different for every person.

David 00:25:45  during marriage, we we got, marriage counseling, separate marriage counseling, and then together at the same time, and there was a lot of, we and we walked through, triggers d sexualizing your brain, understanding, like, the science behind, what leads you to, like, a lustful outside of your marriage? Act out.

David 00:26:09  And I mean, just blowing my brains like a game changer. Absolutely is. And and then we would come back together and then we would share it together with the same marriage counsel counselor. And I'm like, we everyone go home tonight and Google marriage counselor near me.

Speaker 4 00:26:27  It is the greatest thing.

David 00:26:29  Yeah. and it wasn't like we were on the verge of anything. We were. We weren't trying to get divorced. We weren't even. We were happy. We were. I mean, it's the first four years of marriage. We were like, this is the best ever. And it's like, well, how can we get better at this?

Lindsey 00:26:43  There's something more, though. Still. Yeah. Yeah.

David 00:26:46  and.

Lindsey 00:26:47  So the really understanding how God designed your brain, how understanding your triggers. so let's just unpack that just for a second. When we say trigger. What does that mean? What do you mean by trigger? What is the trigger for sure?

David 00:27:03  certain social media apps. certain. Like, you know, if you in certain time spent doing certain activities, like, you know, on for me, it was like, you know, scrolling on like, I guess back in the day it would have been Snapchat for me.

David 00:27:18  But now it's like, you know, Instagram or things like.

Lindsey 00:27:21  Environments that you can't function.

David 00:27:23  It was to a certain extent. Absolutely. And you and and looking back on it you can know when it like switches for sure.

Speaker 4 00:27:30  Especially how good.

David 00:27:32  Algorithms are right now to keep you involved in social media. You know when it crosses over, but your brain hopefully, or is trying to tell you to ignore it because you want to do the easiest thing? Yeah. certain times of the day where, you know, Abby goes to bed early 9 p.m.. What time for me to kill? Four hours. You know, certain, like tangible triggers like that.

Lindsey 00:27:57  And then did you identify emotional ones like loneliness or.

David 00:28:01  Yeah. You know, that was a big talk, for sure. and we kind of debunked that a little bit. Pre marriage, there was some aspect of like lies of well you don't want to have, you know, sex outside of marriage. You have to do this okay.

David 00:28:18  you don't want to.

Lindsey 00:28:20  Like it's perfect. So there's let me just stop there. Yeah. Okay. That lie of saying, well, pornography will prevent me from doing anything.

David 00:28:28  Yes. For sure. Well, you don't realize that. Yeah, we talked about it with.

Lindsey 00:28:32  And you think these things?

David 00:28:33  Yeah. And this year, the conquer series. It's like. Yeah. You were. You were. Your brain was trying to help you to not pursue, you know, that kind of relationship. And I'm like, yeah. Was it though? Like, it's it's just your brain wants to do the easiest thing for your body. Yeah. And that was the easiest thing because it was 100% dopamine 100% feels good. Yeah. And like what you kind of hinted out earlier, I necessarily didn't struggle with that shame. At least, you know, the next, the next day because you just put that facade on.

Lindsey 00:29:08  Put that facade on so you weren't feeling it. You were shoving.

David 00:29:10  And I think I'm like, too bad.

David 00:29:11  It would have been really nice to, you know, I need help to to and maybe that would have helped me, you know, swallow that pride to ask for for help. Yeah. and I don't know, maybe it would have if I didn't find that community right outside of college.

Lindsey 00:29:25  Why? What was the role of community?

David 00:29:28  Yeah. A couple different. Couple. A couple different answers there. So there was the there's Concord series in the metaverse or in series that I did.

Lindsey 00:29:36  And what did that do for you?

David 00:29:37  And just grown men coming to telling me to my face, hey, like, I have to fix this problem or my marriage is gonna end. And I'm like, yeah, okay, cool. I'm like, you know, 24 like, you know, thinking about getting married. And I'm like, how can I not get there? Yeah.

Lindsey 00:29:54  And having people speak truth to you growing.

David 00:29:57  So real, so cool.

Lindsey 00:29:59  Do you think.

David 00:29:59  I feel like I speak a little too truthful now because of those men? I really do sometimes I just like I was really nervous about this podcast.

David 00:30:08  I was just going to share. So overshare. But and that's kind of why I talked to you originally. I'm like, we have to have something like this, like this, or we're just gonna have secret sin in our church.

Lindsey 00:30:20  And I, I love that contrast because you're talking about every day, you know, lied to yourself for all these years. This is the last time. And then that place of community of grown men saying stop lying to your like the this for sure. This isn't. Yeah. Kind of breaking through that. Yeah. because what I'm hearing from you, if you could have fixed yourself, you would have. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

David 00:30:44  And just trying to turn the switch off.

Lindsey 00:30:46  Yeah. Well we would all do that right. If we could fix ourselves we would have by now.

David 00:30:50  And that's kind of and maybe I did feel like that with a binge and purge situation. Yeah. Oh no. I'm fixed. I'm feeling great.

Lindsey 00:30:57  Because you would have these months where you're like, look at me.

Lindsey 00:30:59  I'm. I'm doing really well. And but our brain lies to us because we don't hold the track record. Yeah. We just kind of focus on those. Yeah. the the data that reaffirms the lie we want to believe. Yeah.

David 00:31:12  Wow. Okay. That's good. You write that down. Yeah. That's pretty.

Lindsey 00:31:15  Good. I know a little I know a little something about that. So today what does healing look like today?

David 00:31:25  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. so that Men of Iron and Conquer series. Sorry. Keep it on the table. That Men of Iron and Conquer series, I think, really catapulted my life to, like, understand that this affects my relationship with Jesus so much. Where I was trying to get involved in, like, leading another group. I technically led a group with my middle schoolers, when I was the youth director there, and I was like, hey, you know what? We got to do it right now. And I know a lot of parents were nervous, a lot of leadership on church was nervous, and I was like, don't we? We're going to do it in the best way possible.

David 00:32:01  And I remember having conversations with them and just being the most pure, open, innocent conversations of all time. And I'm like, this is what we need to do right now. And it's it's almost like I switched the narrative a little bit. Yeah. In my life, I feel like God has really, like, given me an opportunity, which I'm trying to seek out an opportunity with reality church to like To not just like go into a season of just like, yeah, you don't need to. This doesn't need to be a part of your life anymore. But instead of reverse it. Where I'm like, I need to seek out other men so that we can come together and understand that our brains are wired a certain way, and that way is a lie, and we do not glorify God with any of these actions. Yeah. Single, married, you know, at any age. Yeah. And that's been really cool. Yeah. so I still meet with a group, and it's been even really cool with a small groups at sometimes, like I said, I overshare sometimes.

David 00:32:56  So sometimes when it's just like the guys hanging out and I'm like, you know what, guys? We're going to overshare, right? I'm going to overshare right now. Buckle up, guys, I'm in your small.

Lindsey 00:33:04  Group pushing into honesty.

David 00:33:05  Yeah. And I think they're just something happened during that time. and you can even argue that maybe it was the marriage at the same time with my wife. Yeah. And I'm just like, you know, because if I don't fix this, if I don't have a good grasp on it, I will sit idle and I'll just fall back into a binge and purge situation.

Lindsey 00:33:25  So healing to you looks like connection and community. Yeah, yeah. What would you say to someone who's listening right now? That is like, I hear you and I'm struggling. maybe they're feeling a little tentative to engage that because it feels scary, or they're still telling themselves.

David 00:33:45  Last.

Lindsey 00:33:45  Time. Last time? Speak to their, their hearts and their ears that for the men and women that are listening.

David 00:33:52  Yeah. The I, I kind of will just give the mindset that I think we're trying to speak into the small group like. Yeah that we're trying to cultivate the, the pure the, the purity small group for the men. God is not going to discipline you for understanding that this is a sin. And instead we're going to have the mindset of rejoicing that we're seeking out help. And your help could look like I think I gave like six examples of of different types of help that I got. And I think all of them were very important in that that stage of life for me, for the ongoing battle, until you find one that actually works for you. Yeah. Finding the ways that sexual sexualize your brain, finding ways to have a mentor or a companion or just a someone you can talk to on a daily basis. And when they hear you say the words every day, they don't go, oh my goodness. You know, they and they go, yeah, either me too or they're like, yeah, I fight this every day with you.

David 00:34:51  Yeah. And that's kind of where I'm at right now. And the last like year long series this season, I've been and I'm trying to find another place to get other people in my life together, that I can help them get to that spot.

Lindsey 00:35:06  And join with you. Yeah. And if you're listening right now, we are recording this, and you'll be listening in the new year of 2026. and just want to encourage Men specifically and invite you to go to our website. Go to our groups page and sign up for this group with men. because David's going to be there. Yeah, right there with you. And they're just going to be there with you. don't don't wait. Yeah. Don't make a decision that you're no longer going to say it's the last time, but that you're going to pursue community, with other men and that there actually is help and there's hope. And I just would invite you to do that. Go to pursue reality.org, and join the group with other men, just as David said, that are going to be there and say, I understand and we're doing this together for sure.

Lindsey 00:36:08  Yeah, we're doing this together.

David 00:36:09  And no one's going to yell at us for an hour and a half. Like no one's going.

Lindsey 00:36:12  To yell at you and shame you for an hour and a half. and get into Community with other people that understand and can journey together, because David's not going to look down on you. He's going to be with you. It's the reverse. Yeah.

David 00:36:26  Like the the.

Lindsey 00:36:27  The guy saying, you're saying I need this too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David 00:36:30  I want you oh, yeah. For sure, 100%. Well, that I think if we were truly supposed to be the church. Yeah. Like that. That God isn't like that. God created and God mapped out. I think this is super vital to be a part of.

Lindsey 00:36:43  And and this is what the church should be. This is the church should be that place you keep saying oversharing. Pastor Joe says I don't want to overshare. I say it to. I don't want to overshare. Okay, nice.

Lindsey 00:36:56  because. But this is who we want to be as a church where we press into those honest conversations. Not inappropriate oversharing. But Scripture talks about this stuff all the time. But somehow, as a church, we've gotten big C church gotten to a place where it's like there's things off limits and, we don't want to be that. And so I just appreciate that you're part of our community. I just want to thank you, for serving, serving our teens. You're one of the leaders with Reality Student Ministries. Yep, yep. And being for other teenagers, what you needed.

David 00:37:36  Exactly.

Lindsey 00:37:37  And being that honest voice that doesn't say, oh, these kids come from Christian homes. They're probably not struggling with this. Yeah.

David 00:37:45  Yeah.

Lindsey 00:37:46  No. And Christian parents. Being from a Christian family does not, protect your kids from the internet. Yeah. So, yeah, that's another side issue.

David 00:37:59  But that's next week's episode.

Lindsey 00:38:01  That's next week's episode. So, David, thank you so much for being here.

Lindsey 00:38:05  Thank you for your honesty. thank you for stepping out and building the community that you needed here at Realty Church. just makes me so thankful to have you and your wife. Your little baby. Yeah, yeah. Very, very sweet. So, hey, if you are listening again, go to Pursue Reality and take that step to join, this group. I just now it is the time now is. Don't wait for another time. There's no perfect moment to do that. And I'm thankful to have you here listening. I'd encourage you if you listen to this regularly. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast. Whatever app you're on, just hit subscribe so you get notified. Future episodes. We'd love to have honest conversations like this and we'd love to have you back next time. So thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 00:38:51  Thanks for tuning in to the Pursue Reality podcast. Reality church is a local church in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. To learn more or get connected, visit us at Pursue Reality.