Simplicity | PRP EP#69

In this episode of the Pursue Reality Podcast, Pastor Lindsay sits down with Pastor Calvin and Jacqlene to continue a conversation on simplicity and what it means to walk with a three-mile-an-hour God.

Together, they explore how hurry, scarcity, fear of missing out, possessions, and overcommitment can crowd out the life God is inviting us into. Through stories from Scripture, personal experiences, and honest reflections, they unpack how simplicity is not just about doing less, but about making room for deeper faithfulness, greater generosity, and real communion with Jesus.

This conversation is an invitation to pause, examine what is driving your life, and ask God where He may be calling you to slow down, say no, and trust Him more fully.

Listen to Calvin & Jacqlene's first episode: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Orher6vTdrhYnffpzgS5r?si=0FJ03UpWQUmElom6g3b4Ug

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Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:53

You're listening to the Pursue Reality Podcast from Reality Church. Each episode is a conversation about what it means to be real people pursuing a better reality in Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

This is Lindsay, and I'm one of the pastors here at Reality Church, and I am glad to have you here for a really good conversation we're about to have with two special guests. So I have with me, well, not a guest, but a part of the furniture. He's on here. He's a frequent flyer. Uh, Pastor Calvin, welcome, Cal. Thank you. Good to have you here. And First Lady, Jacqueline. That that is a church joke. Some church traditions call the pastor's wife a first lady. So that's that's pretty awesome. What's your coming?

SPEAKER_05 2:04

Now, do they call Chris first?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

First gentleman. First gentleman. I don't know. I'm gonna have to tell her what my husband fella. I like that one. Well, it's good to be here with you both. Uh, we are kind of having a little bit of a podcast reunion, both in content and presence, because a number of months ago, I think it was last summer.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

It was. I was very pregnant. Very pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Wow. Okay. So yeah, we have had babies come out of the womb since then. Um, and we did a series where you guys talked about simplicity, this concept of living with simplicity, how it has really deeply um grabbed a hold of your heart, shaped your lives, how you live, and engage God. And it was quite a popular podcast. We people really, really enjoyed it. I think it was both um inspirational and convicting in equal measure, uh, in a good in the best of ways. But also, we are about to enter into a new sermon series this coming Sunday, um, as we're sitting here today, called Three Mile an Hour Gods, uh, which is all around this picture of going at the speed that God goes and walking in life at the speed that God walks. And when Jesus became a man, he did not live with cars, trains, or airplanes. He lived in the first century and he walked. Everywhere he went, he walked. And the speed of walking is three miles an hour. And that's not just what he physically did, that's actually how God moves in our lives and how he moved through life was at the speed of walking at three miles an hour. And so that to me is um capture so much of simplicity. And what you guys were talking about in the previous one, I'd encourage everyone, if you have not listened to the first one, uh, go and check that out. We'll put that in the show notes, uh, that first episode. So I wanted to start with a little bit of a biblical picture out of Luke and reflect on Peter. Dear Peter. I love Peter. He's so relatable. Unfortunately for him, I don't know how he feels about that. Uh and there's a story in Luke chapter five where Peter is, he was a fisherman and he's fishing and he's not getting enough. He's not getting, I don't know if it's what he needs or what he thinks he wants, but he's not getting enough. And his response to that was to fish all night long. He just kept going and going, casting his net, casting his net, and casting his net, um, until Jesus showed up on the scene. And when Jesus showed up, Jesus did actually slow him down. It was like he interrupted him a little bit and gave him very specific instructions, really spoke into a situation. And when Peter responded to God, it's like the provision, the what he needed, it was it shouldn't shock us. But it was there. What what do you guys see in that? Where do you see Peter in us? And what do you think was going on in Peter that drove him to just keep doing that? To just keep casting and casting and casting.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

You want to start or do you want me to? Go ahead. Um, well, I think when I read this passage, it reminded me of like the scarcity mindset. And that mindset is like, I'm not going to have enough. Maybe even if we get down to the root of like our doubt and our sinful hearts, like, God's not going to provide enough for me. And I need to work to provide for myself. And so reading this passage, his response when Jesus asked him to like put out into deep water and let down your net, he was like, We've worked hard all night long and caught nothing. But if you say so, I'll let down the nets. And it's like, well, he already said so, you know? So it's like he's already like, he's already acknowledging he's like, if you say so, it's like, yeah, you should go do that. But on top of that, it's just the acknowledgement that you can have a scarcity mindset and work yourself into the ground and not acknowledge your need for rest as a human, the need to have a Sabbath as a human, um, the time to slow down and recover, uh, or you can lean on God for your provision. And it's just so much more restful and peaceful. And it's freeing when you acknowledge that God is gonna provide for you. You don't have to work all night. You don't have to be your own provider in that mindset.

SPEAKER_05 7:02

Yeah. I think like as a man, like our I think it's like ingrained in to like see a problem and be like, I have to go. Like the first thing I gotta do is put boots on the ground. Like I have to provide for my family, I have to provide for myself. Like um, and and Simon was obviously dealing, he had to be dealing with that. Like, I have to make provision, so I gotta go. Like, that's the first thing I gotta do. Um, but we see like Jesus, like the first thing he does every day of his life is like retreats to prayer and like seeks the Lord first.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:36

And it's like, how often do we approach like problems in our life by like, oh, I have a major problem? Let me stop. Like, take a moment. We're like, I gotta get out on the water and I gotta start, like, I gotta throw nets until I catch enough.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

It's so the language you guys are using is so um vivid to me because Peter was so he filled his that whole night he was filled his life. I mean, it wasn't simple simplicity. Um and it's so interesting that scarcity actually fills up like this fear of scarcity actually fills up our life with all the things that are not that we actually don't need or want. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Yeah. And also um it also fills up our mind, the anxiety, the fear of like not having enough. So while you're working, yeah and you're grinding your gears and nothing's happening, it's just reinforcing fear and anxiety. And as soon as Simon like caught way more fish than he knew what to do with, his response to was to fall at Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

So he didn't like be like, oh great. He didn't fill his arms with all the fish and like take off to I don't know what you do with a bunch of fish if you catch them all, but do whatever that is. His response was actually to once again be like, Oh, I need to go to Jesus. I actually need to be at his feet. And he didn't want more of what he had got from God, he wanted God. And so I feel like simplicity does bring us closer to God in that way. And scarcity and that mindset can actually pull you away from God and keep you focused on yourself. Where if you like recenter yourself on God, um, it just it takes away that anxiety and that fear.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

That fear of there's not enough, there's not enough, it's not gonna be enough.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Distracts us from the simplicity of just going to Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 9:33

Right. Oh we think we only need the the blessing and the provision. And like what really our souls need is like the provider. The provisions we need them too. Yeah. But we also need the provider, and it's like it's just really cool to see.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

The comfort and the peace that comes with realizing like I'm not the provider anymore. Yeah. That's really just freeing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah. So so we're in this place of going to God and really um hearing from him, allowing him to speak, allowing him to provide, allowing him to guide us. Because it's not like simplicity is doing nothing, but it's doing the things that he's spoken, it's doing the right things, it's it's allowing his priorities, is what I'm hearing from you guys. Um and it it does feel like that's gonna require not just a yes to Jesus, but a no to a lot of other things. No is not a word.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

It's a frequently used word.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

It's a it's not a frequent flyer in our vocabulary. How what is the place of saying no in a life of simplicity?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, I think um learning to say no is a very hard thing to do, especially when our lives are kind of on display in the way that they are in today's society. People pretty much know if you're free. It's pretty obvious based on social media and even just the way people ask questions.

SPEAKER_05 11:14

Like I've really worked on when you get a text that says, What are you doing tonight? What are you doing tonight?

SPEAKER_00 11:19

And it's like, why are you asking?

SPEAKER_05 11:22

I'm doing nothing, and I plan on doing nothing.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Honestly, trying to embrace saying no more has changed the way I approach asking other people. Because I want to be So how do you ask differently?

SPEAKER_05 11:33

So I need a babysitter tonight. Could you do it?

SPEAKER_00 11:38

And then I always say, and it's okay if you need to say no. Yeah. Like I give people the out because I know how challenging it can be to just say no if you need to say no.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

You know what I mean? Why do you think we struggle with saying no?

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Um reasons.

SPEAKER_05 11:51

I mean, yeah, like disappointing others, like depending on your personality and your like where you sit socially, like I I definitely struggle with like disappointing others and living up to people's expectations of me. So when I get asked like to go to social things, I'm like, Yeah, I'll be there. Yeah, I want to go. Um you I feel like you're good at saying no to those things because you have a better grasp on like your capacity socially versus mine.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

I also think another reason people struggle to say no is fear of missing out. Yeah. And that fear of like not disappointing others, but even disappointing myself. Like I chose to stay home and I should have gone. Um, and so when we were talking about fear of missing out, we were talking about like how I actually view that as rooted in the first sin, the original sin is actually partially fear of missing out. It's the belief that, well, God told me not to do that, but what if I'm missing out on something that would be better for me or be good for me or fun or whatever it is that your fear of missing out is rooted in, and how that actually isn't from God. Fear of missing out isn't something that He wants for us. If it starts with fear, it's probably not from God, unless it's fear of the Lord, which is wisdom. But that's side tangent.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

So, okay, simplicity, and you guys are talking about simplicity of saying no, like in our pace of life. Tell me about saying no to possessions, to pursuing more, because I just think of all the ways it's always a yes. Like take the promotion because it's a bigger salary, yes. Buy that thing on Amazon, yes. Um get the bigger house, even though it's a bigger mortgage, and there's a cost of that.

SPEAKER_05 13:42

Well, yes. Yeah, I our desires, like we just have to be really cautious with our desires. Um, I think, and I tend to be this way, like I tend to like knock Western culture and even wet Western Christianity. Um, because I I don't think we like, I think what's in the Bible, like I've been wrestling with this. I had somebody recently say that like there's almost no new, like there's no neutrality to following Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:10

And when it comes to our desires, like we just have to be really cautious, like, because we are fleshly, like, and we have desires. And and you think about the first sin, like it was a poke at our desires. Like you have a fear of missing out, like you're gonna miss it. This is what Satan says, you're gonna miss out if you don't have this thing, if you don't experience this thing. And not that there aren't good things to have and good things to experience, but it's definitely anytime there's something that you desire, like it's really important for us to say, like, is this flesh or is this of God? Does it fit within the priorities that that God has laid out, or like um what I desire to accomplish and experience in life? Like that we I feel like comes from God. Does it align with that? Yeah, we just have to be careful when when we have those desires poked at.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 14:56

Cautiously, we're so like you want it, you can have it now. You can have it delivered to your doorstep same day. Yeah, between if you order at sour, you can get it between 10 a.m. and 5 p.m. today. Like it's crazy. I just gotta be careful.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

I had I do, I am an Amazon person, and it offered to deliver something the next morning at 3 a.m. I was like, why do I need it at 3 a.m.? Like, what's going? Yeah, and I wanted to say yes, and I was like, That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 15:28

I can I'll set my alarm for 3 a.m. I can use it.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

I'll greet the the driver with muffins. Yeah, I think I think the automatic yes. Um I I hear I hear the invitation because the no actually makes room for a deeper and more important yes. And we miss out on things that we actually want to say yes to or truly desire. Yeah. Because I do think interrogating our desires is something we do not do enough.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Right? Yeah. We just we let it let them roll. Yeah. And we live in a world where we we can say yeah, we can say yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah. Right. I also have the mindset that every yes is also a no. So if you have a problem with saying no, you're actually saying no a lot more than you realize.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

So tell me about that. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 16:20

So if you're saying yes to this thing that you just, you know, you decide to impulsively buy because you know what I want that, and it's only $400 or whatever, and how much is that in the real in the grand scheme of life? You know, we we're very good at justifying what we want. We're very good at creating justifications for why I should do that.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

But when you're saying yes, you're also saying no to something else. You might be saying no to financial freedom. If it's too many yeses to purchasing, yeah. If you're not able to live within a budget, yeah. If you're saying yes to too many commitments, you're saying no to your peace. Yeah. Maybe no to your sleep, no to your freedom from anxiety because you're too busy, no to your family time, no to your kids.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

So every yes is also a no.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

So is it also a no?

SPEAKER_00 17:04

I think frequently it's a word for somebody. If you get to the root of who is paying the consequence of your yes, you know, what is the consequence of your yes? Really weighing that cost. And there are some things that God call calls us to that we need to say yes to that cost us, right? I'm not saying it's bad, but there's a cost. I just think we need to acknowledge it.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Is it the cost we want to pay?

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Right. Yeah. Because there is there is a cost, but what is the cost that Jesus is actually asking us to pay? So go back to the fear of missing out. It that really strikes me because we do kind of laugh about this FOMO. I have this fear of missing out. Um, and we people say it in a way that it's a personality trait. Like, I have FOMO. Oh, I'm someone with FOMO, and we all laugh about it. And I think maybe there's something that there are some more social people that like to engage in things. But I do think we've kind of made a joke out of it. We've made fear a personality trait. Yeah. And we're letting fear drive our decisions, our experience of life.

SPEAKER_05 18:17

More than we realize.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Where do you see that?

SPEAKER_05 18:21

Uh I think just like literally all the time. Like most of our motivations are from a place of fear. Like when you think about the decisions you make, like we have fears about like even the littlest things. Like in the morning when you wake up and you put your clothes on, like you have a fear of will I look presentable enough? Will I look attractive enough? Like, and you make informed decisions out of fear.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

I also think that um it's a cutesy thing to say, like, I have a fear of missing out. But um, and maybe this is just impactful to me because recently I God spoke this to me, and I had to be like, You're right, like of course you're right, you're God, but um like he didn't give us a spirit of fear.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

You know, I correct me if I'm wrong, is it the rest of it he didn't give us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

And so if you are operating out of a spirit of fear, you're not operating in the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

That's not the same, that's not the same spirit. So if you're making decisions out of fear, you're most likely not following God in your decision making.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

How do we know when we're doing that? How do you guys, how do you personally assess? Because you've structured your lives, um, and hopefully people are listening to the first podcast, but in your schedule, in the amount of clothes you own, when you talk about that example of do I look the right way, amount of clothes you own, your engagement on social media, your home and the contents of your home, being living in this simple way, trying to focus on the invitation of Jesus and not the invitation of fear. How do you know that, hey, I might be driven to fill my life with busyness, possessions, choices that's actually fear is actually driving this?

SPEAKER_05 20:13

Yeah, I think like the pra like we're talking about a discipline and a practice of simplicity, like just as it's a spiritual discipline. And the more you practice it, the more you become sensitive to these things. Yeah. You become more aware of it. Um, you see it more easily in the world around you in others wrongfully. And and then also the next layer is you do see it in yourself more and more. Um but it's also like I think as you practice it, those feelings are fleeting. So, like, even for me, I haven't been on social media in in years. I my social medias exist for like certain reasons.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

You don't message him, he won't reply to you.

SPEAKER_05 20:54

He's not on that. I actually don't even have access to them. Yeah. Um and every once in a while I have the thought, man, like like with the like I lead a worship team, a team of volunteers, and I feel like disconnected from their lives a little bit. And I have, I go, man, like I have fear that I'm like missing out on connecting with them deeply and knowing about their lives. And I have to just ask, like, are there there are other ways? Like, this is a place of fear. So then I go, okay, then the answer is not go back, get get on social media. Yeah, based on the fear, but it has to be from a place of like of of wisdom and and of a pure heart. Like um, so I think just the more you're practicing that, like, you become more aware of it and you talk we talk about this type of stuff a lot in our house. Um we try to at least. I don't think like obviously we're not perfect at it. Like these conversations are always convicting to me because it it just brings you back to the forefront of your mind of like what it's truly like to live simply and like it's difficult.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

I also think. You were asking, like, how do you know? And I think it's if you learn to take pauses. If you're taking that moment before you make a decision. Not just the pause. Yeah. Humility and humbleness bring it before the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

And we should really be taking so much more to God than we do. Including myself. Like including myself. So to me, it's like learning that rhythm and that practice of walking at the pace that God created us to, not rushing, not hurrying into decision making, taking a moment, pausing, taking a time to reflect. And this reminds me of that passage in Joshua that I was just telling you about before, because this was super impactful to me in a moment where I was really seeking God on an answer to a prayer in a very hard season in my life. And I was just like throwing myself at the problem over and over and over again. We were, we were like spending all our time trying to solve this problem in our lives. And at that season of life, I was reading my way through the entire Old Testament, which I love the Old Testament. Um I was commuting to work and I hated commuting. It was draining.

SPEAKER_05 23:08

You worked a job for four years.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

I was gone like 11 hours a day. Yeah. And it was just really exhausting for me.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

I think we all can feel that. That's rough.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah. So our our solution to that problem was to just keep applying for more jobs, keep applying for more jobs. And we were throwing ourselves at this problem together because we wanted it gone. And I was reading my way through the Old Testament and I got to Joshua, I think it's three. I I just said it earlier, but I struggle with numbers. Anyways, so in that passage, it's the second time the Israelites cross a body of water with God, leading them. And God very clearly spoke to me through that passage because there's this line in there that says you need to stay 2,000 cubits back from the Ark of the Covenant. And that just really shook me. I'm like, man, how far is that? Like, I don't know what how what that distance is. So I looked it up and it's over a half mile away. And it's just far enough that you could barely even probably see, see it. And so they're following God at such a distance that they have no idea where they're going to be.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

It's not that it's carried by men.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yeah, like it's not huge. So I'm like, they're staying so far back, and they have to stay back and let God lead them into the unknown.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Shout out to the toddlers. Um that's an L Copyright. Yeah. But, anyways, they're staying so far back. They don't know really where God is leading them. And I felt like God was telling me, like, you're not letting me lead you where I'm trying to lead you. You're like running the other way. And I didn't know it then. I think it took, yeah, I think it took a whole nother year for me to realize like God clearly told me I needed to just leave my job. And I was like, everything in me hates that. Like I, I, I don't want to leave my job. I didn't know God was leading me into a season to be a stay-at-home mom. And it wasn't until like the last couple months of pregnancy with all of that, I embraced it. And I was like, okay, that's what you have for me. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

And I accepted it because it wasn't something that I ever pictured myself doing. I never would have led myself into that season of life, but God called me to it and it wasn't like Yeah, until I took a moment and let Him lead me. So taking that moment and let God lead you in your decision making.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

It is such a practice of simplicity. And this is convicting for me because I do, I get in those, I think, moments and I feel my life and all these things. And sometimes I can feel God almost like a friend would say, Lindsay, just stop. Just stop. Would you just stop?

SPEAKER_04 25:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

And just let's just be quiet here for a second. And I think a lot of times we we move out of simplicity into busyness, consumption, all these things. And if we would just pause and just stop, what's driving this? Why am I doing it? Is this an invitation from God? Is this how I want my life to look?

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

So a lot of this reminds me of um of what it means to be a human being.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

I feel like simplicity, when I hear you guys talk about it, is an invitation to be human and to be human-sized. Um one of the things that has been so uh kind of mind-bending in such a positive way for me is to sit in scripture and realize what does it mean to be human and what's the difference between a human and God. And I mean, there's lots of differences, sin and righteousness, all those things. But at its core, the difference between a human and God is humans are limited and God is not. God is beyond time, we're within time. God has endless energy, we do not. God has endless wisdom, we do not. Like we are just limited. Yeah. Like that. And so when Jesus became a human, he chose to take on limitations because that's what it means to be a human, is to be a limited person. And I feel like simplicity is a practice of re-embracing our limitations. And that that's not a straitjacket. It's an invitation to be right-sized, an invitation to be human-sized. It just is peaceful, it's wonderful. Why why do we fight? Explain this to me. Why do we spend so much time fighting to be human?

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Because I look at our homes and our schedules and our ambition, and it's like it's like we're trying not to be human. It's like we're fighting this instead of just saying, I'm going to accept that I'm a human, I'm human-sized, wonderfully human-sized.

SPEAKER_05 28:00

I want to say that like it's like just this society, you know what I mean? You think about like everything is on display. We so long to like hide our weaknesses and show our face-tuned social media like perfect lives and our accomplishments and be celebrated. Um but it but I think this has gone on forever. Yeah. That like um Satan wants us to be convinced that we can be God. That we can that we can. It's back to the garden, like you guys said. You can have everything you want. Yeah. You can do everything you want. Where God, I believe that God sees humanity, like even just the thought that He created us this way. Yeah. He sees humanness as beautiful, like for some reason. And and and beautiful enough to say, I'm going to embrace that life. Yeah. Because I want to experience what it's like to be human and be fully reliant upon the the the hands that made me. Like I think there's beauty in that. But we just are are constantly battling that lie that like you can be more, you can do more, you can accomplish everything.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

You don't have limits. Yeah, you don't have limits. Limits are there to be to to be bypassed, to go right over.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah, I also think it's um pride and selfishness. And there's a I think there's a lot of sins at the root of our desire to take control of our lives.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Um we like want to take the place of God on the throne of our lives. And yesterday you were talking to me about Lord and like what it means to be Lord. I don't know if you want to share about that.

SPEAKER_05 29:49

Yeah, we were talking on the back porch just about getting ready for this the conversation we're having today. And um I was just talking about how like the we use Lord so often in our prayers. Like, Lord, and I think we see that word as like a soft and fuzzy, like I don't know how it got to that point.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:09

Like if you study the word Lord, like you're a slave to that person. Yeah. Like that is your master. Like you submit to, he lords over your life.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:20

So the Lord of your life, you come to for every decision. You say, like, like, how should I be serving you with what you've given me?

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:31

What decision is most honoring to you, Lord? Like, the Lord is not like Jesus is a friend, he's a brother. But when you address him as Lord, like you are giving him dominion and and ruling over God over your life.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

I I think that's bringing in a thread that's um that I just want to highlight that I hear from you guys, is again, even in our simplicity, it's focused on Jesus, not us. Yes. Because there is a form of simplicity that becomes almost selfishness. Self-serving. It's self-serving, and I've got to protect my peace. And and peace is good, but it's almost this thing of uh I need to live a simple life so I can make my life about myself. And I just want to ask you, like, I hear from you, like that's not necessarily what it's about. It's making room, actually, even for sacrifice and different parties. Is that what you would say?

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Definitely. I would say definitely. I was talking with Calvin yesterday about that concept of taking our decisions to God and even things that feel like you have permission to make that decision on your own without God's input. But how many times do we not know what God had planned for us if we had made a different decision? Was there someone we were supposed to meet?

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Was our conversation that was supposed to happen that could have benefited someone else, but we made a selfish choice?

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

So I do feel like simplicity is really like refocusing your life on the fact that I need to operate within capacity. I need to stay focused on the mission. If I were to steal that from the sermon yesterday, stay focused on the missions that God has called me to and what are those missions. And staying, honestly, it's like a zeroing in of your focus on the things that matter in your life.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

And not focusing on this on all the stuff, all the clutter, the distractions that are taking us and distracting us from what God is really calling us to in our lives. You know what I mean? That personal relationship with the Lord and what He's calling us.

SPEAKER_05 32:45

Because like communion and partnership with the Father, with God, is the most fulfilling, is the more that we really actually our souls desire that communion with God. And simplicity is a way to make room and and recenter focus on communion and partnership with God.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_05 33:07

That's what life is all about. And many of us know, like we've experienced moments where like we get to partner with God, we get to experience communion with God. And it's like, oh my gosh, I'm I'm operating in what feels like a like a heavenly agenda.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:20

And it's the most rewarding thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

I I think too, and I just want to throw this in because I have a personal passion and a microphone. But I think I think it's so important, this making room for our schedules. Because when you go back to the desires that you guys were talking about, underneath those desires are actually good desires. Underneath selfish or disordered, wrongly placed, like we're pointing them in the wrong direction, are actually good desires God wants to meet. Desires to be significant. That's not bad to want my life to count, to mean something. But God knows how to direct us to meet that. Like maybe the selfish ambition of that for career, and it's not bad to succeed at your career.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

No.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

All those things. But when we're doing it out of fear, scarcity or self-serving. Um, but underneath that, simplicity actually makes space to God say, I actually want to use you in a significant way, and in maybe a way you didn't expect.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Or in a way that actually will fulfill your heart's desires, that you truly, you don't know how to how to to meet that, but I know how to meet that in you. Yeah. And I think too, of um possessions and finances, if I could just say our inability to live with simplicity in possessions and finances has a cost to the people around us. True. And the world around us. And I hear so many people say, if I had more money, I would, it would be so amazing because I could be generous and I could help people, and my friend had a need. Simplicity is a doorway to that generosity. Yeah. I I'm so personally passionate about this. Living within your means, canceling your Amazon subscription if that's what you need, membership if that's what you need to do, saying no to the bigger house. You act people can do it. Yeah. You could give away 20% of your paycheck if you wanted to. I believe actually a lot of people could do that. But they don't because we don't pause. We don't live with simplicity. Would you guys agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 35:42

100%. I would even say Don't disagree with me, Jacqueline. When we get into possessions in our, there is even with me, uh like you sink your claws into those things. It could be something as simple as baby clothes. Yes. Disgusting. You know what I mean? Like, how many times were they pooped in, right? Like that, like someone else needs it, all of a sudden, because someone else needs it, it almost makes it a little bit more valuable. Like, well, what if I need that someday? Yeah. You know what I mean? But I don't need it right now.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

It's just in case.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Yeah, it's worthless to me right now. And so God gives us probably more opportunities than we realize. And also, how many times are we not asking? Because if we ask, then we know. And then if we know, we feel conviction.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Like the pause.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Asking your community, how can I help you? How can I how can I help you? And so seeing people with needs and recognizing that they have a need that you could meet.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

And living with simplicity gives space to live that sort of life where you can ask that question knowing God's led me to this spacious place to be able, I I might be able to respond to that. Yeah. Which is beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 36:56

It reminds we talked about this last night, but it reminds me of the parable of the the the rich fool.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_05 37:03

Jesus tell tells Kraut about this uh this man who was experiencing success with his farm, and and he was like, Oh, I should I should knock down my barn and make a huge one. I'm gonna have more room to store all this stuff. And and Jesus is basically like, little does he know, like he The early American He's he's he's dying tomorrow. Like, you're gonna die tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:24

So he does all that stuff and he dies. And it's like, now whose is this stuff? How then? Whose stuff is this? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

And imagine the joy you could have gotten from your stuff seeing like your ability to pour out blessings on others. And I think a lot of people see wisdom in like, well, I'm gonna keep this because that will provide for me in the future. But did God call us to be our provider?

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

And what it what has God called us as Christians to do to help others? So I'm not saying that there's not wisdom in being smart with your finances. Yeah. But I do think that like wherever God is leading you to, if you're trying to use wisdom to combat combat God, it's not wisdom. Yeah. You're just you're struggling with something in that area that you should really lean into.

SPEAKER_05 38:05

Generosity is always a part of God's purpose for your life. Always. Um, I think even the sermon this weekend, that proverb that says like, buy wisdom, but don't sell it. Like, I think it goes for the things that we have. Like, sure, buy buy stuff, don't sell it.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

Give it. Give it. Give it away. We have friends, I won't name their names, but you guys probably know who they are. Um, they're the most generous people that I think we know in our lives. They like recently got like a $20,000 bonus. And I've been like low-key, like keeping track of like how much they've given to people. And I'm like, I think they're I think they used it all. Gave it all away. It's gone. But it's like so meaningful. And like it's and I and those people that they're touching, they're changing their lives.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:50

I there's somebody that we're praying for right now that they're they're they've been very generous to. They're I believe they're coming to faith in Jesus through it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:59

It's just something we're praying for. But it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Yeah. I actually had to go to this person out of conviction and tell them I was wrong. I'm sorry. Because I had been trying to encourage them, like, hey, you guys, you be generous, but like, I'm worried about people taking advantage of you.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

And I was like, what am I saying to you? Like, God uses you over and over and over again. I'm like, be careful, be careful. People take advantage of you. Because it's true. People could take advantage of them because they are the most open-hearted. And when it comes to their finances, the most giving people I've I've met. Like when it comes to like their heart for it is just so strong. And it's probably, there's probably more people like that than we realize. It's just we're so deeply close with them that it's like their hearts are so beautiful to us and inspiring that I'm like, man, we need to, we, yeah, Calvin and I need to work on that.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

It reminds me of something an African mentor once said to me, because Americans always go to Africa, and we have this very specific mindset of don't be taken advantage of that mindset. And you know, you don't want to give to the homeless people because they're just and sometimes it's honestly true. They see the Americans coming, and sometimes they're like, oh, this is awesome. Um, but he said to me, man, rather the fear is that I'll be taken advantage of, or rather, the concern is that I'll be taken advantage of than the concern that I was so stingy it was never a danger.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

And I he's like, if you err on any side, if that's the error, rather that than the error that I never even came close to that being a concern.

SPEAKER_04 40:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

And it totally changed my perspective. He's like, so what? You get taken advantage of a couple times. You lived a generous life. Or you can end your life saying, I protected myself, I never got taken advantage of. Look at me. He's like, what gain is there in that life? So I mean, it totally, I was like, okay, it might happen a couple times. But rather that, rather that. So I want to ask, um, this is what I hear as kind of we're closing and thinking, trying to pull these threads together. Um, you said you said something that simplicity is not about doing less, it's about being faithful. Simplicity is not about doing less. I think we are talking about doing less, but ultimately, even how we started out talking about Peter, it was not about Peter, the focus was not on Peter doing less. It was about Peter not being faithful. How would you encourage people that are like, okay, I need I need to think about this? They're feeling that conviction, maybe a little guilt or feeling like I've missed the mark. Um where where where would you say to start? Where where could they go from this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 42:16

I would start with prayer. I think a lot of um simplicity and the decisions that Calvin and I have made and the hard ones, the big ones, the ones that are very counter-cultural, um, started with prayer and meditation and self-reflection. Yeah. And so I think we chose to focus less on the practical of So don't start with the practical, start with prayer. Yeah, start with prayer because I think if you go to God and you say, you know what, I think I am struggling with a scarcity mindset, or I do struggle with FOMO, or I'm overwhelmed and I'm anxious and I'm exhausted and I've run myself into the ground. Yeah. Like, God, where do I go from here? And I I I am a firm believer, and it's maybe just because it's been my experience, but I think this experience is accessible to all. I think God will speak to you. And sometimes I think we think He doesn't. Even myself, and I've had him speak to me many times. And sometimes I still think, oh, well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna hear the answer to this prayer, whether it's audibly or through an impression or through a Bible verse, or you're wrestling with something in prayer, and then you do your devotional for the day, and it's like spot on. That just happened to me this week. And I was like, this is kind of yeah, it's I've been having those experiences too. It's so wonderful. We didn't focus on the practical because I think the practical, God can lead you into it. And also, it's so accessible. Like if you want to learn more about this topic, there is some amazing podcasts out there. Look for something that's biblically focused, and you will be able to find the practical accessible to you. But I do think we need to wrestle through these things that are going to hold you back.

SPEAKER_03 43:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Whether it's your inability to Slow down, whether it's your inability to let go of things, whether it's your fear, you need to wrestle with that and ask God to help you. Not just try to manage your behavior, but actually wrestle with your heart about it and what's holding you back. Because you can start on this journey and then you realize, like, oh, I I gave away something I needed. Whoops, guess I'm not doing that anymore. And then you're you're done back. Yep. Right. Or for us, um, there's a movie that we wanted to watch on Netflix. Next thing we know, we're like, we'll just do one month of Netflix. Next thing we know, we're watching a movie every other night because we got to get our money's worth out of this Netflix membership.

SPEAKER_05 44:40

So movie, movie, movie. And then we're like on the way here. You know, like, what do we do? And right now we're halfway through because I always fall asleep during movies. And we're talking, we're like, yeah, I'm feeling convicted about like all this consumption we're having.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

It's not part of our core value.

SPEAKER_05 44:56

Yeah, not part of digital simplicity. Yeah, I'm like, dang, I want to finish that movie. That's a good movie. During the movie, I was like, Oh, there's a little too much blood. Like, yeah, good for my soul.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

We have criteria that we go to like the IMDB parents guide for every movie we watch. But for you guys. Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

You use parents guide we we parent ourselves. Honestly, not a bad idea for most people.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Yeah, we always parents guide things to see like, is this gonna make us feel convicted if we watch this? And the more movies we watch, I feel like the more you're like willing to like start to be like, well, that's not that bad. You know what I mean? Or we can skip over that part. But anyways, that is a whole different conversation.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Um I'd like to have that one.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

It's very, it's very easy to slip out of simplicity and back into hustle or back into, you know, just to be a consumer of digital content or whatever it is that you can use.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Hustle, fear, scarcity.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

You need to root your heart in the Lord and seek out what's holding you back.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

It'd be interesting just listening to you guys for people, even just to pause the podcast and write down those words hustle, fear, scarcity, um, what are some of the fear uh yeah, more.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

And just ask the Holy Spirit to sit with that and what he would say about those words, where you might see that, what the invitation could be, possibly from God. Cal, what would you say?

SPEAKER_05 46:21

Yeah, I think like I was I was thinking the same way. We had a conversation last night. I like not as practical, but I've I feel like I fought my entire life. The whole like have a devotional time, start your day with prayer. Like, you know, grow up in youth group, you're like, that's just what they tell kids, and then like you grow up in church and like they still tell me that. And I'm like, surely it's not that simple. But every time I start my day in a way that just sits there and puts both feet on the floor, opens my hands, and just say, Lord, what do you have for me today? Like, I want to be led by you. Let the meditations of my heart and words of my mouth like be pleasing to you today. My day always goes better. I'm more focused, I experience more. Yeah, I say no to the right things, and I say yes to I mean, I say no to the wrong things, say yes to the right things, and I experience more of the Lord that day. Yeah. So just to echo what what she was saying. Um, but I would also say another non-practical, and maybe we can wrap up with an actual practical. I would say that like simplicity in and of itself is like very daunting, can feel very daunting, overwhelming, and offensive. Um and it should, because I I think like the teachings of Jesus, like the gospel is offensive. Following Jesus is offensive to our fleshly desires, to the worldly mindset. But that's a good thing. And I think I've learned to embrace the conviction of the Holy Spirit and the offensiveness of scripture, that when I feel the offense, like rather than like letting it shut me down, I I recognize it as oh, I'm experiencing a closeness to the Lord right now. Like He's speaking to me. Yeah, and it's beautiful. He's not condemning me, yeah, he's just speaking and I'm hearing it. And like that's a beautiful thing. So when you feel conviction, when you feel offended, yeah, it's the closeness of God, and it's a good thing. And he doesn't condemn, no, he wants to speak to you. He's speaking to you, he wants to partner with you, he wants communion with you. So embrace it. Like, don't shut down from being offended.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:16

Embrace it as the closest of God. Um, and one practical, I think we may have said this in the first podcast, but this the simplicity mindset, like it's a journey for the rest of our lives for sure. And there's still things we're convicted of and we're battling, we're trying to do our best to make changes. Um, but this all started by doing a 21-day fast of media years ago. We did that, and some things we never changed. We went 21 days and then we never stopped. So I would say sit down, ask the Lord like what's one thing that I can say no to for 21 days.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:54

And just see how it changes your life. See what happens, see what happens, see how God works for 21 days, commit to it.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Yeah, I love that. I love that it's a journey. Um, we're always looking for the quick fix. What's the one thing I can do that like I marked the date in my calendar, that changed, and I never had to revisit it. Yeah. But it's it is a relational walking with Jesus, hearing his voice day in and day out. Um, we don't always get it right. Uh, but it is um, it's a beautiful, beautiful journey with him. And it just brings me back to the three mile an hour God.

unknown 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

That the invitation of God. And to me, there we can be in a place in our lives where we're living in a way, and I've shared this openly, the way I drive is a matter of conversation between me and Jesus. If I could say it gently, because people might not know it if they know me, but I drive too aggressively, too fast. And if someone is not going over the speed limit, not even just speed limit, over the speed limit, I am annoyed at them. I am so annoyed. It's and it's not just like, oh, that's sweet, Lindsay. No, it's it's an issue. And and I think sometimes when the invitation initially feels disruptive and uncomfortable and offensive to go three miles an hour, sometimes I would just say this sometimes starts feeling aggravating.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Saying no and reordering and saying yes to the right things and waiting, uh, delaying gratification, all these things feels like driving behind that car from North Carolina, and they're on vacation in Lancaster County. They clearly don't know where they're going. Right? It and it feels you can feel that aggravation.

SPEAKER_04 50:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

But I would say from the other side, all of a sudden something does shift. And walking at three miles an hour suddenly feels like a joy, it feels like a gift.

unknown 51:09

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

It feels peaceful. That anxiety and aggravation goes away, and and you see that differently. Three miles an hour no longer is something wrong with traffic. It's actually this is how I want to live my life. And that I think can shift in us. And I hope people as you're listening would respond to that invitation, even if it feels hard at first.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

I would like to say that that really moved me a little bit. And I think that if you want to experience more of the miraculous in your life, yeah. If you want to experience more of like, wow, God did that, yeah, you need to let him do it. And so it reminds me of when um Lazarus was gonna die. And Jesus didn't rush, he didn't go save his friend, and he knew it was gonna cause pain.

SPEAKER_03 52:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

He knew it was gonna be confusing to Mary and Martha when he shows up, and Lazarus has already been gone. And so um sometimes like there is a little bit, like you said, that resistance, that pain involved in going at God's pace, but wow, the miracle. That wouldn't have happened if he hadn't.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

It makes me emotional.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

Thinking we all want that Jesus life of the miracles and the meetings and the and the opportunities and the impact, but we gotta walk at three miles an hour with Jesus. We've got to respond to his invitation to make space.

SPEAKER_05 52:37

It's like he showed up to your house, but you already left.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah.

unknown 52:40

We're already out the door.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

We're already out the door. I hope people hear that. Um, thank you for saying that, Jacqueline. Uh that I felt that. And I I want to see God move in my life and I want to walk at his pace, and I want there to be space, space for him on every level that that that implies. So I hope this has been um felt like God speaking to you as you've been listening. Um, I hope that you respond to the invitation to walk at three miles an hour with Jesus, to respond to his invitation of simplicity, um, where it initially feels like less, but it's actually making room for more of the things that matter and more of the God that we actually desire. So thank you for being here on the Pursue Reality Podcast. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_05 53:29

Good conversation. Good job, you guys. Thanks for tuning in to the Pursue Reality Podcast. Reality Church is a local church in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. To learn more or get connected, visit us at PursueReality.org.