Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Everyone needs help with their mental health, even mental health professionals. Join us as we have your therapist take a seat on the couch to talk about their own mental health journey!
Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Your Therapist Needs Therapy 13 - Perinatal Mental Health with Emily Aleksy
Jeremy gets the opportunity to sit down with Emily Aleksy this week. We talk about what perinatal mental health means, how being a neurodivergent parent can be a unique challenge, and how to advocate for yourself in a broken medical system.
You can find more info about Emily and ERA Wellness Therapy here. Emily also mentioned the Mom's Mental Health Initiative as a great resource, so be sure to check that out.
Jeremy’s practice info is all conveniently located at Wellness with Jer.
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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.
If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Your Therapist Needs Therapy. The podcast where mental health professionals get together and talk about their mental health journeys and how they navigate wellness while working in the mental health field, I'm your host Jeremy Schumacher, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. And today I am joined Emily Aleksy. Emily, Thanks for joining me.
(Emily Aleksy)
Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Emily is local. Part of my goal with the podcast was to not just talk to other professionals but also talk to people who are in the area. So I'm in Glendale you're in
Whitefish Bay, right?
(Emily Aleksy)
Yep. Yep. Right.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
And for non-locals, none of those things mean anything because that's all in Milwaukee. But those are the little neighborhood pockets in Milwaukee. Emily, I always start with the same question. How did you get into the mental health field?
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, I was thinking about this and I don't know exactly. I feel like it was kind of a natural progression. Like I remember being a kid, I was kind of a weird kid, and like going to like half price books and buying like psychology textbooks and my mom being like what... but she let it happen. And then I majored in psychology in college and then realized I can't really do anything with the bachelor's in psychology and then decided to get my masters in social work. I worked in for DCFS for a little bit in Illinois and I was like, I need to do more of the things than just case management. Worked a lot with kids in adolescence. That was my thing for a while. And then after having my own kids, got really super interested in perinatal mental health and kind of being like both my own journey and other parents of like this big hole that seemed like in support and just knowledge about the mental health and new parents and wanting that to be better for everybody than it is. And then it has
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. So, that's a
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(Emily Aleksy)
been
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Very succinct Summary. But
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(Emily Aleksy)
It's
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
let's yeah, let's dig in a little bit. So
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(Emily Aleksy)
a lot of years. There's a lot of years.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm curious because you where did it in a way that? I think a lot of people relate
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
to but going into psychology, not realizing that you
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
can't do anything with a bachelor's degree. so, like
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(Emily Aleksy)
Right. You really it?
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
So like little high school
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah. Not a lot of options there.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Emily being like I think I want to do psychology picking a school based on that
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
and then like when did it hit that? Like Oh s***, like I like
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
guess. I'll have to go to grad school.
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(Emily Aleksy)
Um, I actually remember
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(Emily Aleksy)
having a conversation with my advisor in college like my
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(Emily Aleksy)
junior senior year. And saying, I really think I want to go to grad school and
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(Emily Aleksy)
I'm telling me that I would not be successful in grad school. And that like,
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(Emily Aleksy)
number one, why are you telling that to a kid? But that, like, pissed me off enough that I was like, woman
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(Emily Aleksy)
do it now. And so I graduated worked for a
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(Emily Aleksy)
little bit and then and really spent a lot more time thinking about like What
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(Emily Aleksy)
degree do I want here and knowing that the first one I got, I really couldn't do
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(Emily Aleksy)
much with, that was what I wanted to do and so that's
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(Emily Aleksy)
why I chose social work and I did a clinical program in
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(Emily Aleksy)
Chicago and because I was like, well, maybe there's
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(Emily Aleksy)
a chance that I'll burn out eventually on therapy. And I want to be able to do something else,
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(Emily Aleksy)
which should have been a clue to a whole bunch of things for grad school. Emily that
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(Emily Aleksy)
she was already preparing to burn out. but,
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(Emily Aleksy)
yeah, so did that worked in a bunch of different settings
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(Emily Aleksy)
and yeah, I've not really
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(Emily Aleksy)
considered doing anything else like it's been
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure. This is a This is a
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, it gets right.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
personal question, but why was your advisor saying you would not be successful in grad school?
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
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(Emily Aleksy)
oh, Because well
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(Emily Aleksy)
there was a quite a bit of time where I stopped attending classes, I just didn't go, and then I
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay.
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(Emily Aleksy)
would take it. Actually, get much better in grad school and I did in
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(Emily Aleksy)
my undergrad. And so I think it was intended to be like,
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(Emily Aleksy)
Hey, we want you to have realistic expectation, but it's also really
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(Emily Aleksy)
discouraging, because it should have been much more of a conversation of like, if that's what you want to
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(Emily Aleksy)
do, if that's where you want to go, what are the things that we need to put in place to help you get there?
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
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(Emily Aleksy)
Like, It doesn't need to be like a, no, like you're
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(Emily Aleksy)
gonna fail there, which is very much what it felt like to like 20 year old me.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, that's really interesting. I had a, my
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
undergrad advisor was fantastic. They saved me a lot of time and money.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Because I didn't have a plan and
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
They're like Hey you can graduate this year. This is my junior year of college you congratulate and I was like
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Cool. They're like you should go to grad school though. So let's do
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(Emily Aleksy)
let's,
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
that. And I like was Oh yeah, but my grad school
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
advisor was awful and I had a similar experience of like You're not smart enough to do
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
this. Which was very bizarre because I was a good
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
student. I had good grades and everything. I just was no divergent and so didn't
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
fit in at all. but yeah, I don't understand
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
why advisors say stuff like that, it's very
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
unhelpful when their job is You seem to struggle in these areas.
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Let me help you not. Let me shut this down for you.
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(Emily Aleksy)
Great. Right.
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(Emily Aleksy)
And now again, that makes sense given nerd divergence of like that
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(Emily Aleksy)
was a really overwhelming environment, it was really hard time management
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(Emily Aleksy)
wise for me. There was a lot of like I'm gonna stay up all night
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(Emily Aleksy)
doing this 14 page paper that it didn't write until today, like,
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(Emily Aleksy)
If that would have been you know supported and talked about in a different way, I think my
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure. And you
-
(Emily Aleksy)
undergrad would have gone really really differently.
00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you and I emailed a little bit before this. You also have ADHD.
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
So, when did you, when did you get your diagnosis?
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah. So,
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(Emily Aleksy)
it suggested to me in college because I struggled a lot in college, like
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(Emily Aleksy)
mental health Wise, just really crashed pretty hard my freshman
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(Emily Aleksy)
year and all the way through just like a hard road with a bunch of
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(Emily Aleksy)
different struggles and stuff going on. And so it was suggested then and then I actually
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(Emily Aleksy)
did not go on meds until about two years ago because like
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(Emily Aleksy)
Nah, that's not true. Like I would like people think of like the
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(Emily Aleksy)
typical like little kid with ADHD. It's like boy running around.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Mm-hmm.
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(Emily Aleksy)
It's not a girl who's like super internal and
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(Emily Aleksy)
feels everything and you know the hyperactivity is
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
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(Emily Aleksy)
internal or not external. So didn't look like what it
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(Emily Aleksy)
should have looked like and I Was able to pull it together and
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(Emily Aleksy)
enough in everything before college that I did fine without
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(Emily Aleksy)
studying I still have no idea how to study. Like it doesn't make sense to me,
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(Emily Aleksy)
but I was able to do well enough through that and sort of skate through and college was a different story
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(Emily Aleksy)
where it just like didn't work
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(Emily Aleksy)
in the same way couldn't just sort of skate through and not
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. Yeah,
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(Emily Aleksy)
read things and do find enough on tests.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
which I think there's a lot. That's interesting. And
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
neurodivergence is a passion of mine. I didn't get diagnosed till Postgrad
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
basically, because I went and told this
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
early in their career because I wanted someone young therapist.
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:16.000
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
but yeah, it's it's interesting because right
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
you said like you have no idea how to study same like Just cramming stuff
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
at the End. Grad School was, I'd part of the reason I didn't fit in grad school because I didn't
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
study and so people would be like standing out in the hallway before. We had to take
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
a test and I'd roll in and they'd all be like studying their notes like Jeremy, did you study
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
like Study what I don't take notes. Like I don't, I don't even
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
understand what you guys have in your notebooks like I
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Like really do
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Stopped bringing notebooks. yeah, like
-
(Emily Aleksy)
just read it again. Like What do you What are you doing now? Like I need you to actually
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
I, Did and some point in
-
(Emily Aleksy)
break it down and tell me what studying is because I don't know
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
college, I stopped even taking notebooks because all I did was doodle in them. I didn't I didn't ever
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
take notes, it just full of scribbles. So, yeah,
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
it's, it's interesting when you don't fit that stereotype and you brought
00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
up the gender piece, which I think is, is a huge deal. But I would also highlight like
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
the overperforming part of it. Like, I got straight A's. I got good
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
grades. I was weeks if not months ahead in school, because I was
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
so bored for content that I was like, Well, I guess I'll read the next book or
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'll finish this chapter or whatever. Because I was, I was born and so it was like,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yep. Yep.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Jeremy go this. I'm old so like go
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
clap. The chalkboard that erasers together when we had old
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yep.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
black chalkboards, go put the flag up. Go take the flag down. Like I had all these
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
extra things to do because I was done with everything but nobody was
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
ever like. Hey maybe you should get him assessed or Hey, maybe this should happen because I had
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
good grades and like it's it's a weird disservice where
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. Right.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
I was a s******* when I was young and so I wouldn't have probably taken advantage of
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
anyone working with me or helping me. But like, yeah, it makes a big
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
difference on college prep tests and some of the standardized stuff, which like, I
00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
was lucky that I just do well on those things but like, yeah, nobody
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(Emily Aleksy)
And same.
00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
ever explained how to study, Like the sophomore
00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
year of college. I got to see in a class. I was like, I don't understand.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't, I don't know what else to do. This
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(Emily Aleksy)
Why why?
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
has never happened to me before. So the gender piece I
00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
think is really interesting though, too. Because I do think ADHD
00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
typically gets noticed or in elementary school, possibly high school. And
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
it is almost always based on purely hyperactivity, which
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
is a small portion of the diagnosis.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah,
00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And so, yeah, there's this the stereotypical
-
(Emily Aleksy)
yeah. For sure.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
piece and I think there are people who the assassin
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
assessing. It is done poorly because it's almost always based on school performance
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
as opposed to internal processes. And so like part of
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
the things that even with my diagnosis, many years later, I'm still connecting dots on
00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
is like having sensory issues, like, That's a thing that would have been nice.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
If somebody would point it out, not in like a weird way, like Why do you do that with your
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
food instead of like So I think it's
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
I think it's interesting that you brought up that like yeah, it was noticed, it caused some
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
impairment, but because you're able to escape by kind of went by,
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
I work with a lot of young. Well, younger to
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
millennial aged females who got diagnosed with anxiety and what they actually have
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
is ADHD because it presents similarly and where
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
their impairment is, is that internal process that looks like anxiety but it's actually
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
ADHD.
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yep. Yeah, I think that's
00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
so true. And then like, further with that is I've become super interested in
00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
specifically neurodivergence and parents of like a lot of those people,
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(Emily Aleksy)
especially women people raised as females
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(Emily Aleksy)
like doing well enough being able to like plan
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(Emily Aleksy)
around that enough for most of their lives, but you become a parent. And
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(Emily Aleksy)
there are so many more triggers so much more like, stimuli so much more overwhelm.
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
And in like extraordinarily, decreased coping skills
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(Emily Aleksy)
time to do those things time, alone, silence, quiet, stillness, all
00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
those things, it's sensory overload, all the time. Like, if you're nursing having a baby
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(Emily Aleksy)
on you, having a traveler touch, you sticky stuff like different foods, different
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(Emily Aleksy)
feels like all of this stuff and say, I have a whole host of moms in particular
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(Emily Aleksy)
of like, Why am I so angry all the time? I'm like, Actually don't think
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(Emily Aleksy)
you're angry. I think you're overstimulated. And your brain is like I can't
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(Emily Aleksy)
do anymore, there's too many things here and so you freak out and yell at everybody
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(Emily Aleksy)
because there's there's no way to cope with all of that
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, and if they've made it
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(Emily Aleksy)
stimulus happening all the time.
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
to this point in life, without a diagnosis, they don't necessarily know
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(Emily Aleksy)
Right.
00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
what's going on. I work a couples is
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
one of my bread and butter. And so the, the scene, the couples
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
trends go through different transitions in life. But also that balancing piece of not just like being a
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
new parent or motherhood. But also if you're neurodivergent and you're
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
in a neurotypical relationship and like that causes some
00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
distress, just Generally and then you throw a kid or a couple
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
pets or a couple kids and like, it becomes significantly
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(Jeremy Schumacher)
overwhelming to that point, where for somebody who's maybe in their late
00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
20s or early 30s without a diagnosis. They have coped well
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
enough. They have figured out how to adjust And like it's
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that similar to your experience of like high school you could skate by but college was
00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
was too much. Like that's kind of what happens with those life transitions.
00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, and then like with a job or early marriage, early, whatever you could
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
get by well enough again. So, it wasn't as active of a,
00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
you know, as active distress or an active conversation, and then you're a
00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
parent and there's a screaming baby and you're like, Oh my God, why do I hate this so much? This is
00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, and then the gender
-
(Emily Aleksy)
horrible. Why did we do this?
00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
stereotypes, I think kick in of what motherhood is presented as and
00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
all of the social media around. People who are happy
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
with their babies and their house is clean and all that stuff.
00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
My house is a hot mess all the time. All the time,
00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
those three kids. And so yeah, essentially three kids within two years. Nice. Then it's
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
almost nine and then we have twin daughters who are almost seven and he was like a
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
super intense baby. Like he was just like Which makes
00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
sense a lot. He's just an intense human, but he was just like mad at everything. Like, all
00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
the time, he was screaming. He didn't like to sleep, and I'll start to stuff. So, like, we
00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
should just have another kid right away. Like that'll be fine, right? We'll just like, get it over with and
00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
then we had twins that's like, Oh, that tracks. Okay. So it's
00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
loud in our house. Like, there's stuff like kids move stuff, they make
00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
noise, they're like there's stuff going on and it can be super super over
00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. Do you have pets as well?
-
(Emily Aleksy)
stimulating. We have a
00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
cat who is he will probably make an appearance at some point. He is
00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
large and not intelligent. He's not
00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so I I came from like the marriage, but the
-
(Emily Aleksy)
he's not a smart fellow.
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
marriage and family therapy background and so I had some like
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I had some ideas of things I wanted to avoid in in my own marriage and
00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so we had like a rule, two years, no kids, no pets.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And we broke the no pets, pretty early on. But we stuck to the no kids. I think we
00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
were married for six years before we had kids. Which
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm biased towards. I think it works really well, but I think For me, being neurodivergent,
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
was helpful for like, my wife, to learn how to adapt to me a
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
little bit as well. I like to joke about like
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the laundry chair. This concept of like no divergent
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
folks have like clothing stored someplace that isn't a closet
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
or a dresser. Because they're visual and they need to see it. And so everybody
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Absolutely.
00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
who has ADHD who ever like used that phrase they're like
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And then they like fill in the blank of whatever they use and said, Like all the closet
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yes.
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
doors are often our house. All my laundry is in like open face bins, just
00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like looks awful in our bedroom. It's like not a nice setup. It's like right. Like
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I that's so. I think those years were helpful for us and
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
then having a kid We
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
won like the child lottery with our first one. Who's like super easy slept really well but
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like almost a sharedly has ADHD as well and so that's been
-
(Emily Aleksy)
You know.
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
then like another layer of I don't want to diagnose my own kid
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
especially when he's five. But also like right, he's got sensory issues
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
he's got all these things that I dealt with. How do I deal with that level
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. Yeah.
00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
of it now I also laughed at the sticky babies because
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, when
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that's a thing.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
They're so sticky all the time and there's crimes everywhere. Like there's just
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
stuff. Um, when in like your relationship where you
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Early on, but this is funny because my wife
-
(Emily Aleksy)
diagnosed with ADHD, Okay.
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and I just talked about it and like a couple weeks ago, maybe a couple months ago,
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it came up recently. She's like, well you're out, you're still like just self diagnosed. There's like
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
No, like when I went to therapy like back then,
00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like I got my diagnosis. And she's like, Oh, I guess
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you never talked about it. And I was like, I already knew like, Yeah,
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I just so, yes, it was is interesting. So, she's known for a
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. Yeah.
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
long time, but I think I didn't have a good therapist.
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:20.000
00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
oh,
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Yes, yes.
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So yeah, so
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
diagnosed early on. So like we knew certain like certain things like the laundry was
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
benefiting for a long time of just like I need it. I need to see it. I'm a visual person needing to
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
people see things. Otherwise, I genuinely forget that they exist.
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And things. Like, one laundry tends to be like my big bugaboo.
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I just like wash laundry multiple loads because I started
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and then forget it and like sure you can set a timer on your
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Okay.
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
phone but like I have to remember to do that. So early and
-
(Emily Aleksy)
And I don't remember
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
our relation, Yeah, early in our relationship. This was
-
(Emily Aleksy)
the timers for so like that's a
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
probably prediagnosis. My my then I don't know if
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
we were engaged or if we were just still dating. She got me a planner for Christmas because
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm very disorganized and she's not, she's like
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
multiple planners that have multiple like color schemes. She's very artistic
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and organized and it's really great. So, she got me a planner thinking, like, That'll
-
(Emily Aleksy)
I don't know.
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
be helpful. And like, her birthday is New Year's Eve and I lost the planner before New Year's Eve.
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So like between Christmas and New Year's no idea what it went. And like, she
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
is really offended by that. I was like, I Right? Like, that's my whole
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that's the story of my life. Like I've never used a planner.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
I'm sorry, great.
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I failed or I got bad grades. When I got graded
00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
on like is your planner filled out. No, I don't know where
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah. And I think
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it is.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
that's, that's an interesting thing about like, neurodivergence also, because I think
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
people either go in that direction or like that, I need to be hyper organized. So I don't forget
00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
anything and I'm gonna write every single thing down. So that
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
There's one place where all the things are. And so like my
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
planner is, there's like blocks of time things are highlighted. There are colors. It's
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like they're 57 Post-it notes. My husband jokes. He's like, Are you gonna make another
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
list? And I was like, Probably I'll write make a list on the list and then I can cross it off.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
And so I think like that you know, that can look like
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
organization that can look like Typical behavior.
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
It can look like anxiety. It can also be.
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
There's no other way. I can possibly keep all these things in my brain. And at least they're
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. And I think
-
(Emily Aleksy)
somewhere.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I think there's the the trap of neurotypical
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
thinking that like Neurodivergent means a thing. So like then people with
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah. Right.
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
ADHD all present this way and like I was tell people, like ADHD has
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Absolutely.
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
20 diagnosable criteria. You need six of them so that's like
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm bad at math because I didn't pay attention in school. Like six to the
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right.
00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
20th power or whatever. Like that's in it saying number of
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, right.
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Ways that it can look. So I can diagnose somebody with ADHD who has
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
none of the same diagnostic criteria as me. And
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
even if somebody had the same diagnostic criteria as me, we probably don't do things the same way because
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
there's all these other things. So I talk about like the difference between being an
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
introvert and an extrovert makes a big difference in how your ADHD presents.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I have sensory issues and I have hyperhydrosis which is like
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
overactive sweat glands. So like that sucks because I'm just
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
warm and sweaty often and then I have sensory issues so I hate
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Fun combo.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
s*** on my skin. Yeah. So it's like but like you know it's stuff like that.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
That's horrible.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So then in a relationship like your partner starts to get used to those things. That's
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
great. But then it's like right now we have children and like, put sunscreen on them and I'm like
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't want to touch that though,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. Right.
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so it's, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. There's there's a lot anything. Like,
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I was looking forward to this episode because I think it's really good for people to hear
00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like, even both of us as a mental health, professionals are like, Yeah,
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and then you just lose your s*** because of course you do because that's what happens. Like,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Okay.
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, like to that like I think I do
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
a little bit more self-disclosure with my clients that many people do of
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like, my son is a super sensitive kid. That's a really hard thing. That's
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
not a typical parenting experience, like, people feeling aligned on those things.
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
People feeling like, oh, so I'm not the worst parent ever because I screamed at my kids.
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Nope, definitely do that sometimes too. Do I like it? Absolutely not
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
do a handle it in a way that like supports them and gets
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
us both through that. Absolutely. And that's the key is like that. I don't have to be a perfect
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
parent. I don't have to do all these things. Super well I am not going to
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
ever because it's not a possible thing but I can do the repair that's
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
necessary there, just support my kids and support myself. And
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
then not beat myself up over it because I should know, better or as a professional.
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
I should do things in a certain way or whatever. Like that's not a winnable game, that's
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. Yeah, I think I agree. I, I often have this
-
(Emily Aleksy)
never going to work.
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like internal battle when I talk to other professionals about
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
self-disclosure because I feel like I self disclose a lot, but it's
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
not like just chatty. It's it's often intentional on
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like You think that I have it all together because you know,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
nothing about my life? Not because I actually have anything together like
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Correct.
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
therapy therapist.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Right.
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Well, your house must be clean or like you must like having
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
parties or like whatever and it's like, Oh f***, no. Like The only reason I
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
clean my house is because I have people over because like I need that external
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
motivation to do it. Otherwise it's like, Yeah I don't know. Dogs and kids, my house is always
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
messy.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
But I think it's important for people to
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like know that there is not an achievable level of like, perfection in that way.
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Like, It's not a thing that's ever going to happen. Even if you know all
00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
the skills, do all the things, there's still some things that are hard, we're like, even if you're doing
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
everything right or like doing everything that you should or whatever, sometimes stuff's
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. And I think
-
(Emily Aleksy)
just hard. like, that's not just is
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
working with like no divergent folks like you put it in quotes
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
podcasts so people can't see that but like, right and like, but doing things right?
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yes.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Or doing it the correct way in quotes, like, for most people
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
who have some sort of neurodivergence like that doesn't make sense. So then they feel
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like they're doing it wrong all the time because it's not what
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
their brain naturally wants to do. They're generally not gonna be a lateral thinker. Who's
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
necessarily caring about is the house. Clean is the checkbook. Balanced
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
etc. Etc. I spend a lot of time with couples arguing not, not that
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm arguing. They spend a lot of time arguing about money and one of them has narrow divergence and I'm like
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
they just like Money is a made-up concept, doesn't make any
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
sense to them. So like, it just doesn't register as an important thing.
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
That's really frustrating to a partner who's like? Yes. But it
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it does actually matter. It is a thing that we should care about so.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
it's
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
But I think being able to work with those things in in a different way where you can
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
set a realistic expectation instead of like this kind of
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
therapist
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
It
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
doesn't, and I think, especially like and I know, like, ethics
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
wise like a lot of us were taught that like it like taught no self-disclosure.
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Like Don't tell anybody your political beliefs, your religious beliefs, whatever, but
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
by the same token, how can I expect somebody with intense trauma to come in
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
and feel safe? In my office, to go, the places, they need to go to heal what they need to heal
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
and talk about what they need to talk about. Without them knowing that I
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. And that's
-
(Emily Aleksy)
am a safe enough person to do that with.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like a weird thing that we learned, isn't it? Like I I
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
definitely feel like that's a weird holdover. I was never presented any statistics
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
on why that is more beneficial. I think
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, nothing.
00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it's a weird holdover from like Freudian, you know, Freud starting
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the field as psychoanalysis therapist.
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:16.000
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
You and I are around the same age, so
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
this isn't me being aegis. I'll be curious when I have a younger therapist.
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:32.000
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
um,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah,
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
I do wonder if like part of that is that like because there be is
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
more much more common now and I think people with like less intense again air
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
quotes mental health stuff are in therapy. Whereas I think like a
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
long time ago it was like if you're really intense like if you're like super suicidal,
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
if like all these things are like really intense in debilitating, all the time
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
that people who are dealing with ongoing stressors, trauma that doesn't
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
necessarily completely derail their life, that needs to be worked on like that. That is
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like a piece of that of like You know,
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
if somebody is really intensely mental ill and like psychotic or whatever, like
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
you know, blank slate, maybe helpful,
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
but a lot of the people that I see that they're in the same stage of life as me, like
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
I think it's important that people know that like, there's not a perfect
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
in this and that you're, you know, you're allowed to make mistakes in all of it.
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I think it's fascinating to Looking back on
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
how I used to do therapy. I started as a marriage therapist.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Interesting.
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
What I'm saying hasn't changed a ton
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
but I do think how I say it. And like how I couch a lot of those things changes because
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I can now throw in like a real life experience. I
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
don't have to make up some client of like, well, I had a client who had a similar situation
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
or they did this. I can just be like Let me tell you about my house.
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And and I think that that one builds rapport and also helps
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
to set a more realistic expectation. you
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
focusing in, in perinatal health was that
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Through having kids and that kind of made you care about it or was that something that you were
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
already interested and working on before you had your own kids?
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
And I was always interested in families and like
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
parenting even before having my own kids.
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
But I don't even know that. I knew that like, Perinita, mental health was like our
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
thing. Until I had my own kids other than, like, people have, like, sort of like a
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
nodding familiarity with postpartum depression. And so, even now, there
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
are people that come up to me like, Oh yeah, I had postpartum and I'm like postpartum
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
what like there are many of the things that we can have then
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
But yeah, knowing how hard it was like, for me to navigate
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
things and figure out what I needed as like a mental health. Professional who understands
00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
insurance and knows the resources and knows the places.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Accessing, that was hard and seeing a lot of other people, like deeply struggle
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
of. I don't know if this is normal or not, I don't know if I need help or not. I don't
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
know if it's bad enough for me to need help or not like, and wanting that to be just better
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
for everybody.
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Let's, this is where I zoom out a little bit. Let's define perinatal health,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
because I, as a assigned male at birth person.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
No. That like with before I had kids, a lot of the stuff I didn't know,
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like Harry Natal postnatal. Like those are all made up words that
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like I grew up super religious and it didn't have sex Ed. So like
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
none of those things made sense. I didn't know like how the menstrual cycle worked.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Loosely until Yeah until
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Most people still don't.
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
college. So so like use it, you're in a profession where you're using
-
(Emily Aleksy)
It.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a lot of language that I think is I'm gonna say jargony. It's definitely like
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
in group people who are in it know it and people who are out of it don't. So
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
let's zoom out a little bit for the people who some of my people some of my regular
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
listeners are also religious trauma people. So Also Didn't Get Sex Ed.
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So let's talk was perinatal health. What is that
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Sure.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
all encompass? What is that? Umbrella term cover.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
yeah, so like
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Pretty much anything.
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Reproductive child-bearing
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
and raising related. So like from trying to conceive,
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
fertility, infertility, pregnancy, birth postpartum,
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
the like definition is one year post-birth
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
but a lot of professionals will say like you're always postpartum
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like it's always, you know, a part of your experience and not
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
even talking about just women because then people say, material mental health but
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
people who are giving birth that are not women. Male partners,
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
same-sex couples non-breaking partners adaptive families,
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
surrogate like income, like all of those people who are engaged in that process
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
in some way and are like, creating carrying having
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. Which is like a huge
-
(Emily Aleksy)
raising children.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
scope.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yep, it is. Yeah, and so
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like maternal or just like postpartum really doesn't even touch on like
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
That all of it. It's just it's a really big.
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. So
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Big piece of a lot of people's lives.
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Going through the process yourself being a little
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
bit. Interested was it? You mentioned insurance. Was it seeing how hard it was
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
to get resources? Was it seeing there? Just aren't a lot of resources, like What was it?
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
That was kind of like, Hey, I want to focus on this now.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah. Yeah, I think it was
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
seeing so many people struggle, and not know where to go and what
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
to do not know how to find resources and
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
then my, like I had a couple therapist
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:04.000
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Need.
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Do I know like what? What?
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
So like really one and people to get good care in that because like
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
just like good enough care or Like
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
care that is, you know, semi-informed about people in that stage of
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
life is not enough, like somebody who's been through 15 IVF
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
cycles, trying to explain to somebody about how they got donor sperm shifts. Like you want to
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
do that with you therapist needs?
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:40.000
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:48.000
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Gentle parenting is are all of these different things
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
so that people can really get the help that they need in the way that they need it.
00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. What?
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
This is local again. But like, what's, what is available in the Milwaukee area?
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Like, what was your experience of
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
finding air? It sounds like finding a therapist.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.000
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
My wife and I
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
were both 30 when we had our first kid. So like a little bit older, a little bit more life experience,
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
my wife is an early childhood educator. So knows a lot about early
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
childhood stuff like Yeah you get like a pamphlet on like postpartum depression
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
from your ob and like that's it like it's like Hey make sure you
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. Or like,
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
talk to someone if you want to kill yourself or kill your child because that's not good, but like
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
otherwise, it's just not like there's not a lot that's
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
presented for resources.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. And it's not binary in that it's not like either you're
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
fine or like you actively want to die right now. Like there's
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
But that is I don't want to speak for my wife, that's a little bit
-
(Emily Aleksy)
So much room in between there.
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
of like I was surprised knowing the wide breadth of things that can happen
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
after giving birth how little was presented in. Kind of like
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Here's the spectrum of either like You're okay or You want to die. I was
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like Oh I guess it's good. We're talking about it that that much I guess
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. Well,
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it could be worse but like that's pretty bare bones.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. Right, it's not great. Um
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
most people still are not screened, most people who give birth. Um like
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
I in I hit a bunch of risk factors in a different way of like
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
a history of mental health stuff and like, having
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
multiples, can be a risk factor for praying in a mental health. And there's like, all sorts of different things
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
that sort of, like, pick up your risk. I got screened like once at my sixth
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
week visit and it wasn't even like true screening. It was like You're
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
not depressed or anything. Are you? And I was like Well who's gonna
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
say yes to that? Like who really? It's like, actually
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
When you don't really know what's going on, you don't have a frame of everything that's
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
happening and that's still pretty early in the postpartum process. Like
00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
you don't even know which way is up at six weeks. Postpartum like you're
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
barely making it through the day and to try to think through what do I need and
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, you're asleep,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
I guess not like I don't know.
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
deprived your emotions are haywire. Your hormones are haywire like and
-
(Emily Aleksy)
All right. Right. Yeah.
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I will, I will say, I think that's such a weird professional thing.
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
For a medical professional, who's on
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
comfortable with mental health, is going to frame it that way,
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
because I've worked in an athletics world, a lot. And seeing a lot of athletic trainers
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
frame, mental health, questions that they are correct in asking very
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
poorly because they don't want to get a suicide assessment. They don't have to do a full
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
suicide assessment, or like it's very leading because the person asking it is
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
uncomfortable with the potential responses,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
And that
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like that doesn't hit on anxiety. Postpartum OCD birth.
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Trauma postpartum psychosis like, work partners at all,
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like we know that if a birthing person
00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
in most of the research is like heterosexual couples is has postpartum depression.
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Their partners a 50% chance of having depression. Like
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
if your spouse who gave birth has depression you as a partner, have a
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
50% chance of having it also. So now you've got two parents that are caring for a new baby.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Maybe other children trying to keep their house together and they're both
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah
-
(Emily Aleksy)
depressed and not doing well. Like we don't want that, that's not great.
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and with like I'll get political here with
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
six weeks of usually
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, do it.
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
just leave for the birthing person. Not for both parents
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like and it's so weird. I've been looking at getting a therapy dog and like you
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yep.
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
cannot you cannot purchase a dog. Before eight weeks.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Like is illegal to separate a
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yep. Okay. Right. Right.
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
puppy from their their parents before eight weeks and
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like we do less than that for humans.
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
It's very bizarre. Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
For most people, it's unpaid.
00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
And so then if the like even if I get more, I have to go back.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. And FMLA is like What
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a f****** nightmare.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
It's all a f****** nightmare.
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yes, I don't speak. I leave insurance companies. That's why I don't deal with them. But yeah. Like,
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you know, you have you have all these things going on.
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Your body is is in recovery, even
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
if you had like a wonderful birthday experience,
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
there's a bunch of stuff that for two, for sure, two calendar
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
years and then like That's where personal variability comes in,
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
but at least two years of, like, on a molecular level, your body still
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
recovering and so like, right, you're supposed to do insurance or you're worried about getting paid
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
or you're worried about. Like, I love this tiny human. I brought into the world and
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't want to go back to work, but what does that look like? And I'm supposed to figure that out. While I'm sleep
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
deprived like it's so it's such nonsense.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Great.
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it's great that you work with it because I'm getting like agitated just talking about
-
(Emily Aleksy)
It's, it's all absolutely.
00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like what a f***** up system we have
-
(Emily Aleksy)
It's honestly
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
terrible like the system itself. I love I absolutely love the work
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
though. Like it is I think just
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
a really magical time period to work with like 11, when people bring the
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
babies to my office. I love like, Bring your screaming kid. You do not need to apologize
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
when they get 57. Smashed whatever
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
pups on my floor, like I got a vacuum out, a vacuum it up like but, you know,
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
helping people through that time period and in that time, period is just really
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. And
-
(Emily Aleksy)
truly an honor.
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that's like such a lovely sentiment that I'm going to trample all over here.
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Let's, Let's talk about trauma, because trauma
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Do it. Yeah.
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
is one of my other things that I'm very passionate about. And, and I think because
00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
personal experience, I used to think I was a good drama informed
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
therapist.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
How did you learn that? You
00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
weren't
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I have been
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Okay. Yeah.
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
noticing it and assessing it correctly and then not handling it
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
very well because I never advertised to somebody who
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
specialized or worked with it. So I thought I was I was like in cover your ass
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Okay.
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
mode as a therapist.
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Needs.
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:40.000
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
People who are listening to. This are
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
often therapist,
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a person who was holding my partner's
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
legs because we gave birth on a weekend which bent they're just were no doctors.
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Apparently like it's a very unexpected
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
thing that like I think again a lot of people kind of have this idea of what
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
childbirth is supposed to be like but it's this widely variable
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
experience for people.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
I think. It is,
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
especially in birthing people. It's important, I think to recognize the trauma that exists
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
even before that. So, people of color, women in
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
general, who many have experienced sexual trauma in different ways, people
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
who have experienced medical trauma in different ways racism,
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
You like so many things that lead up
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
to you know. Potentially the time a person is getting birth which is a
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
super vulnerable thing. Like your body's doing weird stuff, you're not really sure. Maybe
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
you know the providers and you've met them before but maybe not because you might just get whoever is
00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
on call and then actually going through
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
birth and even if things go like well for the most part or there
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
isn't anything super scary and everybody's okay at the end I think a lot of people are
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
left feeling like what the f*** just happened, like there's like, yeah,
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
ultimately like everything was okay. Ish. Like I don't
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
feel good about some of the stuff that happened here and I think it's paying respect to
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
that trauma. Also of like, maybe it's not like big tea trauma where you thought you're gonna
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
die. But like, your provider spoke to, in a way that was really triggering
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
or like you didn't feel safe because of XYZ with your providers or things
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
weren't to explain to you, and that is reminiscent of a different time in your life or
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
people do things to your body without your permission, inviting other people
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
into the room. Instant, a lot of doctors really suck at consent. Like I'm gonna do this
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
now. No, that's definitely not how we asked for consent, and
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
no, you don't have to do that. So just like Wait a minute. So it's all of those pieces
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
of things and that's if things go like reasonably well.
00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
And then I have a lot of clients who like there is really
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
scary stuff that happened. I almost died. My baby almost
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
died, my baby did die, and people really not knowing
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
how to support that. And even my clients who
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
ultimately like everybody was okay in the end like our
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
now, fine. A lot of like invalidation of that.
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Well, at least she's healthy. Well at least you're okay. Now, great. Yes, that's
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
obviously the outcome we wanted but also none of that was okay.
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, and I think going back to like, the systemic piece.
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't remember how it came up. I know my wife and
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I mutually did a lot of work of being like Here's how we can talk to doctors and
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
nurses I think I knew a lot of like I had worked with so many clients who had nurses
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
or doctors who didn't listen to them. And my wife is, is
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
fantastic with children early childhood, educator and less, fantastic less
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
comfortable setting, boundaries with adults. And so like it was a thing that she knew
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
she wanted to, like, be better at and work on. And so, like, there was a lot of like feedback
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
with with doctors and nurses and just like well like
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
That person is not here or we don't have someone else. Like, they're like
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
my wife was like, for the
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm drawing a blank. I want to say the cervical check,
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
but like, that's not the right phrasing of it. But like, when she was
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
in labor, like she was saying, every time they were checking her dilation, like it hurt. And
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so it's just like, Is there a different nurse who can do it? Like, what else is
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
available? It was just like really terrible feedback from the people who are working there
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and right like our doctor, her OB, who she'd been working with and liked and did a lot
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
of research to pick to find someone who's comfortable with wasn't in the building when we gave birth
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and like so there's just all these things that I think like they're I wouldn't even
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
call a microaggressions. I'd say they're like full out aggressions but like that
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Women get treated differently. In the medical
-
(Emily Aleksy)
and like,
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
field.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Further women of color, like if you're looking at maternal
00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
mortality rates, particularly through the pandemic, like it's
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
astronomical and terrifying for women, I'll call it. So, to go into a hospital, being
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
able to step boundaries being able to like,
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
You know, whether you've had existing trauma or not? No, you're safe in those
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, and
-
(Emily Aleksy)
fears like that. Is, that is not a thing.
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
even I would say the OB and this isn't to like make it about men because I don't
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
think it's the same at all, but like my wife's ob, who she really likes, spends a lot of time
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right.
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
picking out was like, I would say, weirded out by the fact that I was
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
at every appointment. And like, was just like
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
uncomfortable with it and some of that was because I wanted to be and some of that was because it was easier for
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
my wife to speak up or to like set her boundaries when she knew, I
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
was there with her, instead of having to do it by herself, but like, it was just like, Yeah,
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't know. There's a lot of like, weird spaces with it. Doctors that think can be kind of weird to begin with,
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
but then like yeah there are all these these different ways where it's like, if you're
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
not prepared to advocate for yourself, like the medical
00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
fields just gonna blow right past your boundaries and never even like ask her
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
check.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right? And a lot of those things are like
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
stated or asked, or requested as non-negotiable of
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like, you know, you mentioned like cervical checks. It's not actually necessary
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
in labor to know how far you've progressed like that.
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
It's done. It's common practice, it's not necessary.
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
And unless you know that are you going to say, no to it? Do you feel like you can say now to it? Do
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
you feel like you can say no to your provider without repercussions of some kind? Like
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right. Yeah. And like
-
(Emily Aleksy)
there are a lot of layers there.
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the giving birth process being like a thing that's happening, but you don't have a ton of
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
control over it and so it's like, right? Like you don't want to do, you don't want to set a
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
boundary for yourself that might put your baby at risk. But when you don't have an idea
-
(Emily Aleksy)
People. And
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
of what the actual risks are, it's really hard to make an informed decision when
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you're not informed.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right? And you're trusting providers who
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like a lot of people are induced, are the inductions necessary or is it
00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
more convenient? Because your doctors on call or it's during the week or it's during the day and not
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
in the middle of the night or whatever. Like is that truly necessary? Is that the
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
best course deduction here are not.
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
and I think just to like caveat, I'm not a friend of professional, do
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
not listen to my medical advice but like be informed and asked questions and you know
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right. Yeah, I'm I'm a big advocate for
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Douche kid.
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
helping clients advocate for themselves which is to say like,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, for sure.
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
right? I'm not a doctor. I don't a lot of that stuff. But when you have find a
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right.
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
doctor or you have somebody who build that rapport with and you can have those conversations
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
comfortably with your experiences significantly better than when it's
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
just rolling in and like, taking everything they say at face value.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Think
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
thanks and like knowing those things is just making an informed decision for
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
you. Like if you're in labor and you're like I want to have cervical checks because I want
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
to know because that feels encouraging to me or that you know I want to call my
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
doula at a certain point or I want whatever at a certain point or whatever. That's great
00:44:56.000 --> 00:45:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
just know what the situation is and ask questions
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
and you know, know what you're comfortable with and what works for you.
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And then I think two and this is just purely from experience, otherwise I wouldn't
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
know to have this conversation. Different pregnancies go differently and like
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yes.
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that sounds obvious. But like my wife based on her first experience
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
with our first child, wanted a different experience for our second.
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And so like had a much more like in-depth birth plan
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and had a lot of things that she was doing that. Like I would say there was
00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
gentle pushback from the medical field but nothing like I mean it wasn't like we were
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
at a hospital, we weren't doing, like I don't know, we weren't doing anything unsafe, it was just like, she didn't want the
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
epidural, she didn't like she wanted to stand up and walk around, she didn't, and like, she just had
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Sure. Yeah.
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a much more I think she felt more in control
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
because she was doing the things that she had researched and that she felt comfortable with
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and well in comparison to Giving birth that first time.
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I was a big fan because I wasn't involved in the birth at all. So, it wasn't like, you
00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
hold this leg. I'll hold this leg, and we'll hope the doctor makes it in on time.
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
but yeah, so I think like sometimes it's
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it's experiential and like being okay with like well if that wasn't like, if that experience wasn't
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
what you wanted it to be like, Advocate for yourself
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and and set up so that you can have a different experience. The medical field, this unlikely to
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
change in drastic ways probably between you're gonna
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, right.
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
when when you're gonna have kids. So it's like, Yeah you you really do have to advocate
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. Yeah.
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
for yourself and set those boundaries.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
For sure and
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
I think it, you know, providers also acknowledging that even if a birth goes
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
okay, there can still be lost there. There can still be grief of like that's not what I
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
wanted. I didn't want to be induced, I wanted to labor at home. I didn't want
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
antibiotics, I didn't want to have a scheduled C-section. I wanted to do skin to skin
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
right away. Like all of those are losses in different ways and even if like,
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
ultimately again, we're okay at the end, paying respect to those losses and not
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, so how do you
-
(Emily Aleksy)
minimizing them.
00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I guess introduce the concept of something
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
around, like trauma, if your clients are not, if you're
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
fairly certain, that's what's going on. But your clients aren't necessarily using
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that framework or unaware of like, that going on.
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
And that's a big question. I'm gonna take
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
depend on the situation and it's like, I think it depends on.
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
The clients insight understanding their
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
wording to me, like the word trauma itself is not necessarily the
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
important piece, like we can talk about concepts, we can talk about triggers, we
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
can talk about trauma responses. We can talk about all those things without ever using the word trauma.
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
If that's, it's accessible. And that is what is right for somebody At that
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
point. I also think it's important not to be conscious of like labeling that
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
for people, if it's like Oh s***. Well, I didn't know that was trauma like,
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Oh God, no I'm traumatized. I mean that's true whether you we use
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yes.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
the word or not, but you know, meeting
00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
people where they're at, in terms of that of like it. The word is not
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
important validating the experience knowing that you're allowed to have feelings
00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
about that knowing that you're allowed to heal from that that it is a thing. Those of the important
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
pie
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And I think I'm not a female identifying person.
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I think it seems to me that there's much better support
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
now than there used to be. It seems like even though there's
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
still those social media sites that are Photoshopping, you know, and
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and you know those people who are trying to present the perfect family like I think there is more
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
peer-to-peer support available at least
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
for people after they give birth. And for young
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
parents new parents, early in the process. People has that have you kind of
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
seen that grow as well?
-
(Emily Aleksy)
So yes for sure. And I know you
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
asked earlier about kind of like what's available locally. We are super Fortunate
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
and Milwaukee that we have an organization called Mom's Mental Health Initiative.
00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
It's a nonprofit that is focused on peer support and
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
it was started by two moms who struggled postpartum and we're like, this is not
00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
okay, we need to do something about this. So they've got an online
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
support group that's hosted on Facebook. They've got a provider list down their website,
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
connections with lots of maternal child, health organizations
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
and speak a lot and are just a really great really great.
00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Local resource of even, you know, calling them emailing them and saying
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like, Hey, I need to find a provider and these are my parameters, or I don't know if
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
I need help or not, or whatever, they do a really, really great job of
00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
supporting people and helping them connect with what they need. And that's actually how I got.
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Started with getting trained and praying it, a mental health, as I reached
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
out to them and I was like, How do I start here? What do I do?
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
So and just, I think one of the really super cool things about the
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
kind of perinatal mental health niche in general. Is that a lot of us
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
have been there and our parents and get it in a different way. And
00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
I think there is There's truth in
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Austin authenticity, and that I've truly understanding, like, if your kid is sick, like, you're
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
not gonna don't come to your appointment, like be home with your sick kid. Like, if you are up all night with your
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
baby, bring your baby, we'll figure it out, like, you know,
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
having the flexibility and that of, like, really validating a parent
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
experience and knowing that, that's not like, non-compliance with treatment. That's not
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
non-coming, like, not committing to therapy, that is real life. That is you know,
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
imperfect therapy and those situations I think is better than them.
00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, for sure.
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't know why this this fired in my brain but
00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it did. It's interesting, I think you said like we're blessed
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
to have like some good resources in Milwaukee which I think is really great. I think
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it's it's frustrating to see how poor the medical system is
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
in supporting people who are having birth and then seeing some
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
of the like politicians, you know, like some of the states that are passing the most
00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
restrictive, reproductive laws are the states that have the
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
worst outcomes for both. Child and
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yep.
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
birth giving person like, you know, like Missouri has the worst like
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yep. Yep.
00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
maternal outcomes and they have one of the strictest
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
reproductive laws on the books and it's like, Okay gang like obviously you're doing
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a terrible job of this and then you're trying to like limit
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
information. That are accessible people limit their options and like
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
try and make medical decisions for them. When you're not a medical professional,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
All right.
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
And like where's that where's the evidence, or the research behind the
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
decisions that you're making and if they truly help and support and you know,
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Encouraging, You know, I think sports, that's where anybody or not.
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Like what are the actual impacts of the decisions that you're making? Are you
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
a person who actually knows anything about birth about parenting? Like
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Are you Do you have any idea about what that looks like for people
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
about what the services available for people, postpartum
00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
the services that like, in terms of, you know, insurance and food,
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
and childcare and all sorts of things? there was just a
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
another, Like funding
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
change in childcare. So, but like, 400, child care centers across
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Wisconsin are closing, what do you want parents to do?
00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like, There's a limit there of like
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
it's just not a sustainable thing for a lot of people and then we're leaving people alone without
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
any support and just like good luck. Hope things go find. It's
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
It's not gonna go fine. Well, and right. And like I come
-
(Emily Aleksy)
not going fine.
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
from a religious trauma perspective. So now in like, Most organized
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
religions are terrible about sex education and they want to limit sex education and we know that
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
has terrible outcomes. Whereas a comprehensive sex, ed is
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so much better for people. And so like, yeah, I would say Obviously we
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
know that these decisions are not being made with research in mind, that's
00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
being done. In total opposition. Which is frustrating.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. Right.
00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't know again. Why? I brought that up other than to make us all sad about it.
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
We change it from the inside again.
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yes. So, but but again, I think that's where like
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Peer-to-peer support has been really helpful, obviously, having professionals who are trained in it.
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And, and well, informed on it is helpful,
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
but I do think that a lot of this has been like
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Mom's going through the experience being like, well, that sucked and like feeling on an island and then
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
connecting to people and being like, Oh, that experience is not that
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
unusual and it would be great if yes, it was a better experience
00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
from the get-go, but I think it's it's better for people to have that space
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right.
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
circling back a little bit. There's a method to my madness on the
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
front end of trying to get pregnant, finding out your pregnant etc,
00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like, is there support growing there as well. Or
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
has it been predominantly support for people after they give birth?
-
(Emily Aleksy)
I think there's
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
support growing there and there's acknowledgment growing there of all the
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
of like pregnancy is terrifying for a lot of people considering whether you want to
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
become a parent is terrifying for a lot of people. And so, I encourage people like if you're
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
feeling some of that distress, like See somebody then.
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Like I have people who come to me that are like, we might start trying in a couple years,
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
but I know that I need to do some stuff here first to figure some of
00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
this out because pregnancy is terrifying, physically to me, or birthstones
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
awful, or my parent was really terrible. And I don't want to do that. And
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
I'm really, really scared that. I'm gonna be an awful parent. We can talk about those
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
things. Like those things all need support. It is not just
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
okay. Once you actually give birth that you need support
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, and I think it's such a crazy complex thing because it's,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
in that
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it's on the one hand, it's the personal experience of
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
giving birth. It's the personal experience of getting pregnant. It's that generation
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the parents, but then you're introducing a brand new generation
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
by having kids and then it gets into all this intergenerational stuff around
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
parenting around intergenerational, trauma around all this other stuff.
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And so, it's, it's not just like, what was your birth experience or like,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
How have you recovered from that? Or How are you doing emotionally with that? Then it's like,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Sure.
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Oh, right. You're trying to keep this tiny life form from sticking a
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
fork and a socket all the time. Like, How's that go ahead? And?
-
(Emily Aleksy)
That's a lot,
00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. And so so there are these, I
-
(Emily Aleksy)
right?
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
don't want to say dual processes because there's so many more than two. There's there's all these varied
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
processes going on all at the same time and then with limited resources,
00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
even just from like I think a brain capacity thing, I make a huge deal for about
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
sleep for people, and we know that new parents are not getting enough sleep.
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So, Like yeah, they're all these processes going on and then it's I don't want
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
to parent like my parents did or I have drama or whatever from how I was
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
raised. I know what not to do but I don't know what I should be doing
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
instead.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. And I, I see so many,
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like, parents with, like, either a new babies or young children, who are like, I
00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
thought I was fine with how his parent did like, I thought I dealt with it, I
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
thought I had healed from that, but in those moments,
00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
when my kid is screaming at me, I can't not like immediately. Go to what
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
my parents did, which is shutting it down emotionally or being reactive
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
or whatever. And then the guilt and the shame that come along with that
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
of like, I thought I had done that, I thought it was fine. And clearly, not fine, I'm intensely
00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
trigger. Oh my God, I'm the worst parents ever. Like, well, number one, the
00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
simple fact that you realize all of that means you're absolutely not like that you have
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
insighting, you're aware of it. But then like, what do we do with that? To make parenting feel
00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
tolerable for you knowing that there are triggers there that it brings you back to
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
a lot of stuff even stuff that you thought you're resolve. Like
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
How do we help you? Navigate that, so that things don't feel awful. Even if pregnancy was
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
fine, even if birth was fine. Even if you didn't struggle like initially,
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
there's so many again, so many triggers
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Mm-hmm.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
in so many ways. So much overstimulation and just not the same ability to cope
00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. Yeah, and
-
(Emily Aleksy)
and resources Pre-kids.
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
resources, just even from, like we don't support, child care either. And like the difference
00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
between somebody who has the apparent, who's retired and can give free
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
childcare versus somebody who has to try and find an age-appropriate
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
developmentally appropriate. Childcare's nearly impossible.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. Right.
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Like my kid is sick. One of us to say it has to stay home. Who does that?
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Which one of us is gonna stay home? Which one has less consequences for
00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
calling out of work and one of us work from home, Maybe maybe not can one of us
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
do calls when a kid? Is there like as a therapist
00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
needs
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
therapy? And they are not cool with that
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
like and I would be distracted like I can't that's not a thing that I can do.
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
So yeah. Navigating all of that is just really tricky
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
which is why I recommend that. Everybody make a postpartum plan with their partner so that you're clear and
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
your expectations and roles and have conversations about things before
00:57:56.000 --> 00:58:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
you're like whisper screaming at each other in the middle of the night.
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
yeah, and I talk a ton about support system because a lot of people
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
You just, I don't you're in a weird space
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
when you have a child under two, I would say. But even before school,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
because a lot of that social support kicks in when your kids in school and so then
00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you're meeting other parents. You have kids who you have something naturally in common, because
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
your children are in the same grade and so you can relate on like a life stance thing.
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
But if you're the first group of people in your friend group to have kids, that's
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
very alienating. If you're the last person in your friend group to have kids, that's
00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
very alienating. Like they're just all these
-
(Emily Aleksy)
If everybody else did and we struggled with
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
infertility for five years and they didn't wind up with a child.
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. And like we didn't even touch on
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Like that's there's a lot there.
00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like, At least 30%, but definitely more of
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
people have miscarriages. Like Yeah, there's so much that I think goes into this. I think
00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
definitely the conversation is opening up like it's still pretty far behind
00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
where it where it could be where I think we have the research saying it it
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
should be I don't like using the word should but like I would say we have the research basis to
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
say like Yes we know how we could be doing this better if it was funded and we had
00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
opportunity and resources for people. There's not
00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
prioritize that like not just You know,
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
reproductive limitations but like how do we support new parents? Then how
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right. Yeah. For sure.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
do we help people get through that?
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And everybody cares about kids supposedly and yet
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
we don't have, we don't have the funding and the
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
resources for these things. It's wild
00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So this is this is fascinating let's let's shift gears a little bit
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
kind of abruptly. I could have you back on for a full another hour just to talk about
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
parenting.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
I get chatty. So
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
No, it's good. I always I a lot of my guests
00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so far have also been neurodivergent and I like to joke that like the neurodivergent
00:59:56.000 --> 01:00:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
brains just fine, the other neurodivergent brain so they can vibe together.
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I was like to ask like, What are you watching? Or What's on your bookshelf?
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
It can be professional things or, like your recreational things. Let's shift a little bit
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
to like, your, your self-care and kind of how you navigate that.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah. Yeah,
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
so I will say that as a therapist
01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:28.000
01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Needs.
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:40.000
01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
And
01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
it talks about kind of a long lines of things that we've talked about, is sort of the
01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
mental load of parenting and how that split in couples
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
often. not equitably, and the
01:00:56.000 --> 01:01:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
sort of like the unseen labor of mental,
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
emotional, tasks, and how those weigh into how people
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
navigate parenting and just being a part of like a family system,
01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
which is it Pretty big emerging conversation
01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
of How is the mental load split? What does,
01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
you know, a mental emotional load mean, How do we split those
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
things up in our family or in our marriage and our current parenting relationship
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
in a way that is, you know, reasonable for both of us.
01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
And, you know, a lot of us are taught through, you know,
01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
experience or you know whether they're explicit or implicit
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
messages about what roles are in a marriage or partnership or family
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
of like dads do this and moms do this or men do this or women
01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
do this or the person at home does this or You're better at that, you know,
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
and having those conversations which a lot of us do not have
01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
So, and by reading it right now, I mean, I got it from the library and I read the back of it
01:01:56.000 --> 01:02:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
It's on. It's
-
(Emily Aleksy)
and really excited to read it.
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
literally on your bookshelf.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right, it's gonna get in through osmosis, but I
01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
am really excited about it. And then for fun, I read a lot of like
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
murder books, which my husband is like, I don't understand how that's helpful
01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, it's a whole thing. My wife
-
(Emily Aleksy)
for you and I was like, I don't know, but I like them.
01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
listens to my favorite murder and so I'll walk in. She'll be like You know,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Okay. And yeah.
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't know doing but doing something and she's listening is like horrific murder
01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
case. How you doing? Are you okay?
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Okay.
01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah this is this is really funny. I love this podcast. Okay, good.
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, but it just read one that was set in Wisconsin, which
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
was really interesting to have, like, I don't know, very Wisconsin things
01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
We have a strong
-
(Emily Aleksy)
like in the book, that's cool.
01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
history with very famous murderers. So,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
We do we do
01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Go Wisconsin. Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
we do claim to fame coming to Wisconsin.
01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So, how do you, how do you kind of balance that are you? Somebody who like
01:02:56.000 --> 01:03:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
engaging with things intellectually is, is
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
helpful for you. Like when you're not seeing clients is reading material and
01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like kids in your education, not in like the continuing ed. That's required sort
01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
of way. But like, personally reading the things already need to like
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
turn your brain off and like find something that's unrelated.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
I need to
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
turn my brain off and do something that's unrelated and just sort of like divert from
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
that a little bit. Is important. Yeah found
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
very much that like stillness and quiet are important to me in a way that I really
01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
did not understand at all, especially before I had kids.
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
That's just like, that's really important being in my body enough so
01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like doing yoga or like, taking a bath or walking or stretching or whatever
01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
and really noticing what's going on physically and how,
01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
you know, where's that coming from? And how is that impacting, my mood, and how is that
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
impacting my reactions and whatever else. It's a,
01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. And he said, this has
-
(Emily Aleksy)
it's a pretty good way for me to do that too.
01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
been a long process for finding what works for you. I think
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that's interesting. I Related to that. I think I've
01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
shifted even my own perspective on like
01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't do habits, my brain doesn't do them. So I've really shifted to
01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
thinking in terms of like rhythms because like for the past year and a half, I've
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
really focused on my sleep, which a is whole thing with neurodivergence for people of
01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
ADHD, a lot of them are terrible sleepers and like, it's just not a thing that gets talked about a ton.
01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And so I really like focused on my sleep and that's been helpful. But it's, it's
01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
also this thing where it's like, I'm in and out of work out routines, it's not like a
01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
thing where it can be like Monday, Wednesday Friday. I'm gonna do yoga and like,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I might get three to six months of that, but it's not gonna be a forever thing.
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
That's just not how my brain works. And so, I think it's like this constant kind of
01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
checking in because It's, it's not like
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I got it. I figured it out. I know what self-care looks like for me and I will do it
01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
forever from now on, just doesn't work that way.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, no. Like
01:04:56.000 --> 01:05:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
I literally write it down because if I don't write it down, I won't do it. Like, I literally
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
will break like, How does your body feel today? Okay, I got to do that. All right,
01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
I can like recognize what's going on. And I think, you know,
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
a lot of nerve urgent people, but a lot of women, a lot of helpers are taught to
01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
ignore their own needs and, you know, not pay attention to the things inside
01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
you that are screaming or the pain, the physical pain, that's there or, you know,
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
limits when the messages help other people and do your best and do all these
01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
things and like be kind and like be a martyr. And then it's like well at what? Expense
01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
like what's going on. Then for that person, that's the helper. How do they meet their
01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
own needs? And there's, you know, I could talk about that. All they do lots of
01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
No kidding and like grind culture and like owning your own business and
-
(Emily Aleksy)
layers. Well Here.
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like yeah a lot of that stuff under we could just sum it up by being like
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
capitalism really sucks and isn't helping anyone,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Capitalism. No.
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
okay? So yeah
01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
there's so much more that we could get into here because we didn't even talk about
-
(Emily Aleksy)
So much more.
01:05:56.000 --> 01:06:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the business owner part of it which I'm always very curious about but
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Let's I guess I brought it up. Let's do it.
01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
We're okay. For type. How did that go with you? Kind of
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Okay. Yeah.
01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you? You change your specialty Perry night period. Doing perinatal work to like
01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Business owner, opening your own place, doing your own thing.
01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah, I think I underestimated it, honestly.
01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Kind of like the, you know, that
01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
nerve urgent urge to like, fall into something all the way
01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
and learning to moderate that a little bit, has been a tricky thing for me
01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
of like, I could easily like work all the time
01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
essentially, and like, but I wouldn't be okay. So being
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
really conscious about, like, I need to stop. I need to not. Look at work things
01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
in the, you know, in the evening, I need to not do all of those things and being really
01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
intentional about stopping that sometimes.
01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
So that I think has been a lot. Especially with having young kids, it's
01:06:56.000 --> 01:07:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
trying to balance all of those things, build a business and I also like
01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Here,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
officially opened, my practice in March of 2020, which was like a
01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
sure.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
It'll always
01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
that reaction to people like, Okay good that. Well, you
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
know, they've been in the works for a long time and I had, you know,
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
planned to open it and then the world shut down, like crap, what am I going to do here?
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
That things, I think just progressed in
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:28.000
(Emily Aleksy)
a different way and then expending to a group. So, I have now three employees
01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
in an intern, and so managing other people learning to do that
01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:36.000
(Emily Aleksy)
in a way, that is good for me and good for them. Setting up an
01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
environment that supports people as employees
01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
of. I don't care if you do your notes at home, go ahead. I don't want to
01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
like micro Manage your time if you want to take a nap in your office between clients, I don't
01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
really care like Do you like maybe
01:07:52.000 --> 01:07:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
don't fall asleep in a client session. That'd be cool. But like
01:07:56.000 --> 01:08:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
I do what you need to do to take care of yourself and that's I think a lot of us
01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
have worked in environments that did not support that. And we're very like,
01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
grind culture of like, you know, you have to give all of yourself to this and
01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
not recognizing the humanity in that and that like, we are people and we have
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:16.000
(Emily Aleksy)
needs and they're different and You know, if you want to see your clients from five
01:08:16.000 --> 01:08:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
to nine pm each night, I don't really care if you want to see them in the mornings when you
01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
have childcare. I don't really care if that works. Cool?
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Like Let's support people on that and so that is is one thing that I've
01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
worked really hard to try to do and I need to remember those things for myself
01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, yeah, and it's interesting. I, I
-
(Emily Aleksy)
sometimes
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
talked about this with a bunch of other of my guests on the podcast but like not getting
01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
messaging that supports opening your own business, not getting any business training
01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
in our psychology backgrounds. And so like, it can be kind of a
-
(Emily Aleksy)
You know, yeah.
01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
daunting thing. I think you, you said you underestimated it. I think,
01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
overestimated, how difficult it would be, and then I put it off for way too long. So then I was working
01:08:56.000 --> 01:09:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
at agencies that were good fits, or I was independent contractor with
01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like these yucky contracts blitz for what my reimbursement rate was, and like, it
01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
just so, yeah. I was a lot of like, grinding there and never really feeling, like, I got
01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a head because I was scared to open a business because I thought to be so much work that's like, oh,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that part of my ADHD, that got me through
-
(Emily Aleksy)
yeah, I think that
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
school, kind of got me through opening a business too.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. I do like
01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
sometimes I'll be in like, therapis
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:28.000
01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
the whole Internet before you started. Like, I don't understand.
01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that's, That's a good reminder
-
(Emily Aleksy)
You didn't Google everything before you tried this. I don't get it.
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that I probably didn't pay my quarterly taxes yet, but
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Hey, you're
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm not, I'm not therapist.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
quarterly taxes guys.
01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
So, I am lucky
01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
that. My husband who helps me with businessy tax financial things
01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
is a he's an engineer by degree and so he's very like logical
01:09:56.000 --> 01:10:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
rational, like he'll be like, okay, transfer the money so we can pay the text in.
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. Well, a lot of those,
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Like, got it. Thank you. Like your spreadsheets for this reason.
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a lot of the neurodivergent people do, I think find those type A
01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
personalities to kind of balance them out, and the type A personalities are
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
attracted to the neurodivergent folks, who seem so, like kind of freewheeling and not
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
beholden to the rules. So yeah.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
Right. The other he was like, I like your
01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
ideas and I was like do you because oh someone a little wonky
01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, Emily. This has been
-
(Emily Aleksy)
sometimes but good.
01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
awesome. I do think maybe we'll circle back sometime and talk parenting because that's
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah. I'd love to,
01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a huge topic too. If people are interested in learning
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(Emily Aleksy)
yeah.
01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
more about, you learning more about your practice. Where do they find you? What do you got out there?
01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:44.000
(Emily Aleksy)
So our website is Arrow Wellness, Therapy.com
01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:48.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Facebook and Instagram are error. Wellness
01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:52.000
(Emily Aleksy)
therapy also. Internet's the best way to find
01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:56.000
(Emily Aleksy)
us. We are right in Whitefish Bay. We're in the Fox Bay Building. If anybody has any idea
01:10:56.000 --> 01:11:00.000
(Emily Aleksy)
where that is And yeah, that's
01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:04.000
(Emily Aleksy)
basically please feel free to reach out to me whether you want to see somebody our practice or not
01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:08.000
(Emily Aleksy)
or you just need some ideas for like, Where do I start finding support or
01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:12.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Hey, I'm really looking for a therapist.
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:16.000
01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:20.000
(Emily Aleksy)
Through a lot of conversations that most postpartum are
01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:24.000
(Emily Aleksy)
perinatal people have like, one attempt at reaching out in them,
01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Emily Aleksy)
like, reasonably energy wise, and if they get shut down, they're not going to circle back and get help.
01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:32.000
(Emily Aleksy)
So we really work hard to like, even if we're not the right fit for somebody and I think you've
01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
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(Emily Aleksy)
said before like rapport is the most important thing. Goodness if it
01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:40.000
(Emily Aleksy)
was your clinicians like infinitely important. If we're not the right people for you
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. Yeah,
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(Emily Aleksy)
like I can help you find somebody that is um, so please reach
01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and And the tiny bit of
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(Emily Aleksy)
out, if you're looking for support role in this together,
01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
prep work that I do for this. I did have your website up earlier and you, you have like
01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
some drop-down menus that even have resources listed, That's outside of your practice, which I think is
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(Emily Aleksy)
Yeah.
01:11:56.000 --> 01:12:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
is really great. It's what I look for with people that I'm working with
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
for people who don't have that like scarcity, mindset of like work with me and be really car
01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
salesman, but like mental health is hard. Please get the help that you need even if it's not
01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
with us. So like yes your website is
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(Emily Aleksy)
I like I actually don't want you to see me if
01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
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(Emily Aleksy)
I'm not the right fit for you. Like I don't want that for you. Like I want you to have the right person and
01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, for sure. So yeah. We'll have
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(Emily Aleksy)
that's not always me.
01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
all those links in the show notes, most of my stuff is on Instagram
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so we'll do all that stuff. That'll be listed so it's nice and easy for everyone to
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(Emily Aleksy)
Awesome.
01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
find. As always, I'm Jeremy all my stuff is at
01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
wellness with jared.com and has you know, all my different links and
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
locations there. Emily, this has been really great thanks for
01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
coming on. And
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(Emily Aleksy)
Thank you so much for having me really enjoyed it.
01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
to all the listeners out there, thanks for tuning in. Once again, we'll be back next week
01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
with another new episode. Take care, everyone.
01:12:52.000 --> 01:12:53.000