Jeremy is joined this week by Dr Christine Henry for an authentic conversation about the many facets of Neurodivergence. Jeremy and Christine talk about getting diagnosed later in life while already working in the field, the intersections of being a mental health professional while advocating as a parent, and how Autism and ADHD have a lot of diagnostic overlap with religious trauma. We chat about the need for more specialists in the mental health and education fields, and how important it is to keep up with the research in the field.
To learn more about Dr Christine’s practice, head over to Therapyforpetpeople.com. Seriously, go check out the resources tab there, it’s awesome how much free info is gathered there. You can also find Christine on Instagram @therapyforpetpeople.
Jeremy has his practice info at wellnesswithjer.com, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube under the wellnesswithjer moniker. Also, if you want to support the podcast, you can now get some swag! Shirts, mugs, fanny packs, get something nice for yourself or for your friendly neighborhood therapist!
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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.
If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.
Jeremy is joined this week by Dr Christine Henry for an authentic conversation about the many facets of Neurodivergence. Jeremy and Christine talk about getting diagnosed later in life while already working in the field, the intersections of being a mental health professional while advocating as a parent, and how Autism and ADHD have a lot of diagnostic overlap with religious trauma. We chat about the need for more specialists in the mental health and education fields, and how important it is to keep up with the research in the field.
To learn more about Dr Christine’s practice, head over to Therapyforpetpeople.com. Seriously, go check out the resources tab there, it’s awesome how much free info is gathered there. You can also find Christine on Instagram @therapyforpetpeople.
Jeremy has his practice info at wellnesswithjer.com, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube under the wellnesswithjer moniker. Also, if you want to support the podcast, you can now get some swag! Shirts, mugs, fanny packs, get something nice for yourself or for your friendly neighborhood therapist!
-----
Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.
If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.
Your Therapist Needs Therapy - Christine Henry (2024-02-12 10:03 GMT-6) - Transcript
Christine Henry, Jeremy Schumacher
This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.
Jeremy Schumacher: Hello and welcome to another edition of your therapist needs therapy podcast for two mental health professionals talk about their mental health journey and how they navigate mental Wellness while working in the mental health field. I'm your host Jeremy Schumacher licensed marriage and family therapist Henry Christine. Thanks for joining me. Yeah, we were chatting just a little bit before I hit record.
Christine Henry: Yeah, thanks. I'm excited to geek out and chat with you.
Jeremy Schumacher: We have very similar interests. So the fact that we finally found each other across different states that we can chat about things. We're Super passionate about I'm very excited.
Christine Henry: Yeah, where are you located physically?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yes, I am in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. So I am a midwesterner. I know you spent some time in the midwest as well.
Christine Henry: Yeah. Yeah, I'm in Texas, but I feel like my heart is in the Midwest and I love having clients back in the midwest. I just feels that connection is awesome. And I love SCI pack…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: because I can see clients at 38 States I think now.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah, it's one of the covid was weird not to jump into covid drama right away, but covid was weird because how relaxed everything got I was still in higher ed at that time when covid hit and…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: so was like, right I need to see all my students and they're not all from here and it was like, just see them and we'll figure it out later and then some of those things started tighten back up. It's like no, we figured it out. It was working fine. Let people see the providers they want to see.
Christine Henry: Especially in more rural areas. They don't have Specialists, to find somebody…
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: who works with religious trauma or works with adult ADHD autism like That's very Niche specialized thing and not every place has a therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, yeah, it's very shockingly client forward for our current medical model, which is awesome. But yes, let's jump into a little bit of your background and how you ended up where you're at today. I always start with how did you get into the mental health field?
Christine Henry: Let me think. The high school that I went to I grew up overseas and I came to the us as a teenager. And so there was a bit of a culture shock with that. And then the high school I went was a little higher SES and I think people had a lot of mental health problems. And it was interesting out of all my friends. I was the only one not hospitalized or…
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Christine Henry: had a suicide attempt. And so I was the one running around taking care of everybody. and of course was Curious,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Mm-hmm
Christine Henry: why do people do these things and wanting to understand that so in high school. I knew I wanted to be psychologist and had this very direct path of knowing and then Love college and graduate school. So it was always kind of on this path. I think to be a therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, that's awesome. I know what we're gonna get into. So I have a hard time not jumping ahead talking about something like adult ADHD talking about autism. When did you kind of figure some of that When did you get your diagnosis? Where does that fall in the chronological? history
Christine Henry: Needs therapy and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Christine Henry: then both of my kids we knew were ADHD come to find out One's autistic. And another one has a lot of autistic traits. It's a separate thing. so I already had an understanding. This is what ADHD looks like. I never thought about it for myself. I just knew. Academically, I didn't feel like I was smart. I mean I was told I'm not smart enough to go to a regular College. I had to go to Community College. But I went to Purdue University. I graduated with a 393 GPA.
Christine Henry: Right top five percent which I thought it just must be easy, right? …
Jeremy Schumacher: You right.
Christine Henry: but it was hyper Focus superpower. And then also I think being on Wellbutrin medicated the ADHD unbeknownst to me. So looking back there was all these things…
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Christine Henry: but I had no clue. I went that what the Tipping Point was I had worked in College counseling centers for 10 years and then went into a private practice and I was messing up dealing with client payments cancellations and just all the logistics With Private Practice. I was messing up and I had such anxiety because I would Make sure to click there all this stuff and I would still mess it up and I had such anxiety every time I would have to do it administrative task.
00:05:00
Christine Henry: And I couldn't figure out what was wrong. And then the practice owner set me down is you ever think that your ADHD I was how would this be possible that I would grow up? And not know this and especially as a psychologist and already knowing things about ADHD with my husband and my kids I was just a thing. So then this is the nice thing about being a therapist.
Christine Henry: need s Therapy,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: that's why you're 80 notes behind and you can't keep up with things and it takes you so long all these things. so it was just blowing so I got on ADHD meds and I didn't mess up the administrative tasks anymore. And my anxiety level has just dropped…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: because I don't mess up those things and it was so frustrating. I would try so hard and I would still mess up and then that had me reflect as wait, maybe I am smart look, for the first time in my life.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: And then as my son was getting tested realized I'm dyslexic. I have dysgraphia in watching him and seeing his process. And my gosh all of these things. No wonder I thought I was stupid. So yeah, it was very life-changing.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and that's fascinating. I don't know you the exact breaks down or your case though, but I see a lot of adults where I'm the person diagnosing them with ADHD. And it's a lot of that light bulb moment of
Christine Henry: Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: But I did well in school but I own my own business or I make six figures in my job. I'm doing well, but it's all these other things in their life. It's getting kids to practice on time. It's rescheduling dentist appointments. It's all this other stuff where it's right in this narrow range you're doing really well and if you get more put on your plate that's where the inattentiveness starts to kick in and so Understanding that're not bad. You're not wrong. You're not broken. You're not lazy. You're not a bad parent Gently approaching some of this stuff with that.
Christine Henry: mmm
Jeremy Schumacher: They've been grinding their gears on to figure out and be really eye opening for people to be like, I didn't know ADHD could look like this. I thought it was just fidgeting in class.
Christine Henry: Right one, I think that's also the challenge when you're doing diagnosis. it's really important to look at what systems people have in place? So they're ADHD doesn't impact them. And if you're just looking at symptoms, you're not struggling with this at it But looking at what does it take for you not to struggle, right and if we took the systems away or all of this then you would struggle on those symptoms would be more present so I think it's so important for therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yes.
Christine Henry: everything
Jeremy Schumacher: The laundry chair is the thing I talk about in therapy and my ADHD. No Divergent folks light up with that because A lot of them are visual and so they need to see their laundry and they struggle to organize it. It's like I don't call mine the laundry chair. But yes, I have one. It's like right. There we go. That's what we're looking for. And I do couples therapy.
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: So I see a lot in the context of one person is neurodivergent.
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: One person is neurotypical and they can't figure out why they keep budding heads and having different language to talk about it is just a real game changer for people.
Christine Henry: Right and I see a lot of folks. I don't do couples. I just do the individuals but both partners are neurodivergent, but we have different flavors. and so it …
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. I'm excited to talk to you about that.
Christine Henry: it communicating and understanding each other for my husband, I would always get frustrated. I can't you pick up the living room, just put everything in a pile and then we can figure out and he's like no, I don't know where they go things don't have a specific place. And so when workaround we did that he does the dishes because the dishes have a very specific place and…
00:10:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Christine Henry: he does the laundry because it's very easy to understand where things go. The more ambiguous tasks. I kind of deal with right just understanding our brains and what things are just going to be super hard for him. Right that may not be so hard for me and then I hate making phone calls.
Jeremy Schumacher: same
Christine Henry: And those kind of tests and so it doesn't bother him as much so he takes care of that. Right? So it's managing with our strengths
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and I love that efficacy of that. I think there's a lot of good things in pop culture right now around fair play and mental load and…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: a lot of those things but I think when you're dealing with neurodivergence, some of this is like, I'm interested in what's going to work. how do we play to each person's strengths in a way that's Good tolerable to good if we can sneak out great. That's awesome. But that's not always possible and so finding the efficiency of This is a practical approach to what's going to work for everyone. But as you've hinted at you've got a household with a couple different.
Christine Henry: right
Jeremy Schumacher: Different neurodivergent paths in the household. What's that? Kind of do not just for you as a partner as a mom but as a practitioner looking at this is how these things play out.
Christine Henry: Yeah, it's really a mind-blowing journey that I had with it and the culmination and it was like an explosion. I would say it was the biggest existential. Crisis, I've had both personally and professionally at the same time. It's still blows my mind how everything happened. I'll start with the
Christine Henry: Professional and go into the personal but I have clients who I was working with for years. They were coming in for trauma. They're doing individual Sometimes couples therapy taking medication. They were hard-working folks, but they still had some challenges with emotions regulation and interpersonal things and at the group practice I was at there was a psychologist Julia straight, which is awesome. She was former faculty at University of Houston Clear Lake the academic background. She came to the practice and was doing assessments and really started getting specialized knowledge in autism assessments and how it looks in females and so in talking with her with some of my clients she's like, maybe you should test them get them tested for autism and I'm like, yeah that makes sense with this client. And so I sent them and sure enough. Yeah autism or 80 autism or…
Jeremy Schumacher: he
Christine Henry: trauma and autism and then I started looking at Reading.
Christine Henry: Literature and my gosh, this isn't trauma. This is autism.
Christine Henry: She was taking insurance. So it was really affordable for clients to go get tested. Luckily. And so I sent a lot of my clients to her and…
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah.
Christine Henry: every time yes, yes and the practice owner was like wait, how is this even possible that you have so many clients that are Autistic or ADHD or both? I think also side note is because I had a therapy dog Divergent folks. some flavors of us love pets. And so I think that's so how I got so many on my case love plus being neurodivergent. I speak the language and so they connect with me I connect with them. so at the same time that this was happening, I mean, I was just like, my gosh, why wasn't I taught this in graduate school? And it's because I worked with adults, so I'm not gonna work with autistic folks right or…
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: ADHD they will be diagnosed, So had zero training in it, but at the same time my daughter was struggling.
Christine Henry: And we knew she was ADHD and she was in a gifted and talented academy. He was struggling socially but not academically and so they wouldn't test her because of that which sucked wouldn't test her and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: then after having all this knowledge, was like maybe she's autistic, right and we had tried many therapist.
Christine Henry: it hurt my heart. I was like what and this teacher allowed Serenity to sit under her desk during class every day. sit in the back of the classroom on a bean bag and gave her all these great accommodations which is why she was thriving in that class. He's like no,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: this is just gifted quirkiness.
00:15:00
Christine Henry: What?
Jeremy Schumacher: Which tiktok would say is a clear indicator of autism?
Christine Henry: I was And so we paid thousands of dollars to get. An evaluation and sure enough autism. so this is going on it with. my daughter this is going out with my clients and then I start learning more. I'm like, wait a minute. My husband thought this ticket so clear. How is this missed? And my sister has so many trades. Nephew, my husband's side. Definitely his nephew and my dad we always thought was a narcissist turns out he's probably autistic maybe both but …
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: and then you feel like you're going crazy in some way. It's like, my gosh, it's everywhere.
Christine Henry: and what's interesting is some my clients experience that too right that they start seeing it everywhere. I saw a meme if it's true. It's like neurodivergent people travel and packs. So if you look around and you notice people around your neurodivergent, you're probably in our Divergent, too.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and I tell those neurodivergent brains find each other. and so whether it's friend group or…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: therapist the number I had that too maybe I'm over diagnosed in this maybe I'm looking for it too much because a lot of my people have ADHD all the time and…
Christine Henry: right
Jeremy Schumacher: it's like right they're finding you something on my YouTube channel they're picking up that this brain does things differently. Let's go see him.
Christine Henry: yeah, and then Some of my psychologists colleagues, we're saying the same thing like this is you projecting. This is not true. But when I was at the group practice, I was not the one diagnosing the clients that way and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: and it was a full neuro psych battery, which I don't think you need to have to diagnose but for the sake of thoroughness, it wasn't different provider diagnosing it wasn't me. But yeah, I went back into therapy because am I being unethical because I had a colleague say you were being unethical you are not qualified to diagnose this. despite taking tons of trainings and sitting down with Julia tell me how this person diagnosed autistic help me understand. No, you're being unethical right and then after doing Continuing trainings. I'm like, no, they are operating out of outdated information.
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: And I'm hopeful maybe in the next five years more therapist. needs
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Mm-hmm
Christine Henry: to get on board with the neurodiversity movement.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and I think it's the more I dig in I find myself somewhere in between because I do have some pushback to the tiktok crowd if you like chicken nuggets your autistic, like some of that stuff.
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I'm like, okay, but this could get harmful that we're taking away resources from people who need that. But also I have a hard time scribing to the very rigid diagnostic tools that a lot of people who've been out in practice for 15 20 years,…
Christine Henry: right
Jeremy Schumacher: I've been doing therapy for 15 years now like gang we can't be citing stuff 2000 that's old outdated information.
Christine Henry: Yes. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: If you aren't up to date on it it's a fast In field Neuroscience has changed it the way we study it and understand it. So I hold Grace for both sides of it. I think that it's hard to stay up to date. But if you're diagnosing you kind of have to that's part of your job.
Christine Henry: Yes, yes. even if you don't do testing having an understanding of how it can look because I agree. again self-diagnosis I believe is valid but having a therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: Mm-hmm
Christine Henry: And it's just like, they have the concerns for masking and they feel like they don't. Fit in it's because they don't have the same belief systems of that group anymore and…
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: they feel disconnected or don't know social cues. there's all of these things that can look like autism and sometimes it can be both, right. But yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: right Yeah.
00:20:00
Christine Henry: I think helpful if you have a therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: Right and religious drama gets hard because if they grow up in it, then there might be some developmental delays from being either emotionally or intellectually held back for specific reasons or I talk about spiritual bypassing a lot. And so it's one of those things where it's like, right you didn't learn how to manage your emotions. Does that mean emotional dysregulation on the autism spectrum somewhere or…
Christine Henry: Yes, yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: is that religious trauma or is that You…
Christine Henry: right
Jeremy Schumacher: so it is difficult. I think to tease some of that out and I don't know it's like in your area. I'm in the midwest. I'm the only person in my state who has any religious trauma training like That's still very new and niche as people are leaving the church in droves.
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: So diagnostically it's tough and a research is limited around what it looks like for females what it looks like for people of color like a lot of our research is still based on white males. so working through that reading new research staying on top of what's been verified and…
Christine Henry: right
Jeremy Schumacher: what's needs to get run back and tested again some of that stuff is and that's where you see so many people in their 30s or 40s not avoided who haven't gotten the correct diagnosis for so long because they get a personality disorder at a young age or they get something else that they're narcissistic. They're borderline and it's like no, there's a lot more underneath that.
Christine Henry: minutes Mm- Yeah. or a lot of people with religious trauma don't come to therapy for religious trauma. You…
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: they come for anxiety, depression or whatever and then you dig deep and they're always like I don't think about these things. I'm like, yeah, but it's running in the background and it's impacting how you think about things and so yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: I'm hard to even though you left the church five years ago. Those ways of thinking are still there and getting people to understand that impact.
Jeremy Schumacher: I got diagnosed with ADHD when I was in my postgrad, so just my last semester of schooling really useful time. But the way I brew relate to ADD my own ADH. She's a lot different after leaving the church and deconstructing my faith because I didn't realize how much I was disconnected from my own body and that was very much my own religious stuff. And then as I started to do some of that healing was like That's what it feels like to be regulated. I just had no concept of that. And so then it kind of made me reevaluate and relearn a lot of stuff related my own ADHD where I could actually get in tune with my body in a way that when I was still conservative religious just didn't make sense to me.
Christine Henry: yeah, it's interesting how they twine and When diagnosing folks like some autistics, who have religious trauma, too. you ask about social things and it's like there's a built-in community. So yeah, they were always invited to birthday parties. They always had friends right and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: so it can make it hard to notice. differences in that context
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, a lot of the black and white thinking that I see with ADHD, that's built into fundamentalist religions. there's a right way to do things.
Christine Henry: Yeah. right
Jeremy Schumacher: There's wrong way to do things and that's functional in a way for those who are listening I made such a face when I said that word but it helps people function and versus then when you're trying to grow it's really stifling and…
Christine Henry: right
Jeremy Schumacher: so this really narrow lens in which it works, but I used to work at a homeless shelter pre ACA and everyone having Insurance when I was in grad school. I worked at a low fee clinic for people who didn't have insurance and we had a lot of people who were in Jehovah's Witness High control religions basically Cults because they were undiagnosed or unmedicated with the mental health issue and the high control religion made them somewhat functional helped them hold down a Job and…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: work second shift and it was okay because they had all these rules and regulations. But once they got medication that high control religion was really unhelpful for them.
Christine Henry: yeah for me. I had always had an interest in. colds and high control groups. So had that interest rate in a reading wise, but then when I went I worked at College counseling centers for 10 years. Again, I ended up getting these clients. I getting some it's because people don't look like for what impact does religion and I don't know why Houston is it's a hub. I think there's so many folks you've come from hike, the evangelic groups it was witness Mormons, It was interesting finding all these folks in College counseling centers and I even had a Therapy Group which was so awesome and healing for people but yeah, they could manage somewhat in an academic environment that had a lot of struggles.
00:25:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, what was so you said just interest in that did you grow up religious? Do you have some personal experience with a high control religious background?
Christine Henry: Yeah, yes was race Catholic and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Mm-hmm
Christine Henry: all of that and had a lot of disillusionment when my parents got divorced and how people who were in the church treated our family. And so that made me pull back from that too and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Christine Henry: then later in life when I experience the significant losses. I tried turning to religion for comfort and it did nothing great even like let me try, Episcopal see if that helps. Nope.
Christine Henry: And so I found Unitarian universalists,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: right which is as long as you're a good person and you can believe whatever you…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: You can be, atheist agnostic and Unitarian and very lgbtq affirming, so it really fit my beliefs and then I connected with folks who are more minded and It was just such a better fit and offered so much more comfort.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. I have a funny anecdote around you your churches. I hadn't been in a church in a while and I got my certification and religious trauma. So I was trying to build that part of my case load up and you Church invited me to come talk and I was like, that's so cool. I'm gonna go talk about religious trauma at a church, but I walked in and there was just this flood of somatic experiencing in my body of I've not been in a church in a while so is this kind of a surreal experience, but I know all this stuff I help people with it and here I am feeling it all. But really good experience. To you churches are limited in the midwest, but they're lovely places.
Christine Henry: Yeah, I think they're limited so many places too. Right and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: then what's interesting is usually my clients are going to them if I am working locally. And so then the Dual relationship stuff is there and so that kind of limits.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: I mean I could do it but it's easier or not to have to deal with your relationship issues and not go.
Jeremy Schumacher: And it's a Similar to neurodivergence, I think religious trauma people tend to find each other too again. there's so much.
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Community that religion provides that when people leave a religion, they're looking for that Community elsewhere. And so I see a ton of religious trauma Facebook groups and…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I've learned to stop introducing myself as a religious trauma specialist because people share their religious trauma immediately on meeting me. Which I'm used to with couples therapy, but it's a little different when someone starts being like The Nuns used to treat me like this in school and we're at a comic shop. This isn't a conversation for them this location.
Christine Henry: That's why when you're on an airplane, you don't ever tell people. You're a therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Christine what are you kind of do in your daily life what's time away from therapy look like how do you take care of your mental health I mean working with these cases can be
Jeremy Schumacher: Intense early on especially as you're figuring out the diagnosis and helping people understand it. How do you kind of take care of yourself?
Christine Henry: adult ADHD autism also parenting ADHD PDA kids also. Religious trauma stuff like those are special interests. And so, everything I read is I enjoy that and it's connected to that. I think the big thing I do is connect with Community with that, other minded folks. And have a social support network, not just professionally, personally, so I spend a lot of time on that, special interest hyper Focus stuff. I'm a baker too. So I love baking. I had a side baking business for eight years too while I was working at College Counseling Center. So that was interesting. And then yeah, I don't have much free time with two kids five dogs.
00:30:00
Christine Henry: my own private practice, so every time is a Very small thing right now.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. did you have any business background?
Christine Henry: No, yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I mean you had the side business and
Christine Henry: No, but this is again an undiagnosed ADHD and not realizing they're super powers in it we become the Jack of all trades I think of this is my new hyper Focus. I'm gonna learn everything about that and then now that no longer fills me up. So I'm gonna change something. and…
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah.
Christine Henry: yeah, I had belief in myself to run a business either. I always thought and people have told me you can't even manage this when you're working for somebody else. How are you going to do this by yourself?
Christine Henry: So luckily my sister who way has a lot more executive function than my brain does. She's kind of set with me and help kind of guide me and support me really kind of help set it up and then after she put some systems in place able to sustain it. But it's like the creativity I think which is awesome. And then give me it's up to me how much I want to do it or how little I want to do it like all of that stuff.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah, I found the business side of it to be very intimidating. And now that I've been in it for a couple years. I'm like, I wish I would have done this a lot sooner just being able to practice authentically and run things away. I want Market. I got a child interruption. So surprised I was startled. Where's Mama?
Jeremy Schumacher: Can you go get her please? Love you.
Jeremy Schumacher: The joys of recording it.
Jeremy Schumacher: Run it back here. He went that way.
Christine Henry: business died the other thing I will Say is understanding my ADHD and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: finding accommodations for them for myself as a business owner. And the one that's been most life-changing for me is buying an AI software for notes.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: It's been life-changing right? I would be 80 notes behind but I have to schedule whole day to work on notes. An hour's trying to get started and would have to do body doubling all the severe effort to get it done. And I found a program that's if a compliant my clients, Sign in form consent and if people are uncomfortable, I don't use it. But it in a transcribes my session and then based on the commands. It'll generate the note for me. Has been changing life changing.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I was one of the few systems. I don't have locked down because it is get so far behind and then something in my brain clicks where I'm like, I gotta take a day to catch back up and miserable day of just catching up on notes and
Jeremy Schumacher: it's always very validating to talk to other neurodiversion therapist.
Christine Henry: And then what's horrible, I see in so many therapist the shame about it. people grow up. Stop being lazy. This is a part of the job.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: Just get it done or the state one. why can't you just write it after the session? what's so hard about that?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: Gosh, how ableist you're being in saying that and how the struggle is so real for so many people that just really takes me off when I see therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: I also find a lot of neurotypical therapist.
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Christine Henry: right
Jeremy Schumacher: So I think some of it is being neurodivergent, but I also like a lot of neurodivergent folks struggle with money because it's kind of like this made-up concept that doesn't make a ton of sense to their brain. That's what I find with notes to is like I'm doing this…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: because I was told I had to do my clients never want to see them. They don't care it's not about helping my clients about Being compliant way I need to do the work.
Christine Henry: What I found though, when you talk to neuropal typical because everybody complains about being hot behind a notes and then I asked how far behind I have five notes. I need to write I'm shut up. That is not Behind 80 notes is behind a whole month.
00:35:00
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: Behind, right that's significant.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Henry: So I do always check in when people are complaining who are not typical really what are we talking about here,
Jeremy Schumacher: On you worked College counseling for a decade,…
Christine Henry: And what yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: you said? What's your caseload not insane for that?
Christine Henry: At the time I worked in the lovely days of College counseling when it wasn't so hellish and the presenting concerns people had were more relationship homesickness. I'm depression anxiety.
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Christine Henry: Whereas when I was getting out. A lot more, significant mental health concerns and then the pressure from Administration to see more clients.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: Pushing you outside of your comfort zone and even abilities is a therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I worked in higher ed for five years, but at a day three college, so you're doing way too many things. So I was coaching volleyball teaching classes and…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: doing all the mental health for the student athletes. Which is too much stuff,…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: but yeah, that was probably the time I was worse with notes was I have to wrap up session. I have to get to practice then I ran into our practice and then I have to do recruit emails and then just that was the worst for me.
Christine Henry: The only thing I think I was better note wise again, I think because I had so many other things to do. I was doing Outreach supervision group there the individual therapy.
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Christine Henry: Sometimes teaching or whatever and so like that there were more deadlines. And so if I have all the free time in the world things just don't get done. Right. It's…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: what I have that time h. So being in private practice on my own. It's just me, right there's not a lot of other things.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: I'm like, crap. I only have so much time. so
Jeremy Schumacher: but you've used the word systems a lot, which I talk about to automate or delegate is one of my mantras for adult ADHD and Owning my own practice. Wednesdays are always my catch-up day whether it's catch it about notes or doing Media stuff or whatever. I'm even terrible at doing show notes for the podcast. My media person will laugh when they hear this right? It's Tuesday night. I'm emailing Jeremy to get the notes for the podcast tomorrow, but it's one of those things that system works a lot better for me where I have built-in time to catch up instead of guilting and shaming and being in case when you're behind now, it's fine. I built it into my system. I can catch up I can do that stuff and tidy everything up and so that works a lot better versus being at an agency where I was working five days a week or working at higher ed. Where's five days a week. And again that authenticity towards building your practice the way you want lets you do.
Jeremy Schumacher: Work differently, it's just me. I can run my practice the way I want as neuro divergently as make sense to my brain and…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: that helps me be more effective.
Christine Henry: yeah, in going where your energy levels are at 2 o'clock, my focus just drops to and then also work-life balance. I can pick up my kids from school, you…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yep.
Christine Henry: they don't need before care and Aftercare and the expense of that it to be more present in their lives. And then I have more energy for my clients, right there's all sorts of positive benefits that I think Yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: having my own practice is enabled me.
Jeremy Schumacher: How has it been for you as a parent? I'm assuming your kids are School aged. Navigate him.
Christine Henry: Yeah. Yeah My son,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Go ahead.
Christine Henry: my son is 11 and then Serenity's 14.
Jeremy Schumacher: How is navigating the school system been as a professional but also kids who have special needs?
Christine Henry: yeah, it's been really frustrating because I don't know I think sometimes it's like this psychologist who's just seeing things that aren't there and then it's just, Mama Bear parent who's just exaggerating things what's been interesting is so different with how my son is treated versus how Serenity is treated. And so serenities in the gift of program.
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Christine Henry: She used to not struggle with academics, but then over time her, systems ran out and so she's getting more assistance. But with Skylar, he's the more hyperactive ADHD. I do think he's got a lot of autistic traits. and with the disgraphia and the dyslexia academics suffers So people accommodate him way more than they do serenity.
00:40:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: Which is really frustrating, and I don't know again, maybe since he's a boy, right, again the difference in because Serenity is the more inattentive.
Christine Henry: and so how people view them is very different so frustrating and it's something I have to remind but Serenity teacher she is autistic, I got this email. she was doing good. She was working with a group but then when it came to turn in the assignment and do the work, she just put her head on her desk. And I'm like, no kidding. She's not his thick. how much energy that took to be in that group. And then she went straight. I'm just like how is this a surprise? Like what?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah, I make it there a little younger. I have a six year old and a three year old and the six year old just in kindergarten it's the first parent-teacher conference with he's not diagnosed but almost a sharedly he has ADHD he's tiny me and…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: just a conversation that we could have. Then I felt was shifting a lot but kindergarten's a different world than once he gets into higher grades from a little more concerned about it and…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Milwaukee I'm a homer I'll speak highly of Milwaukee but acknowledge that it does not have a lot of great resources available. And so balancing private school versus public school and school where he has resources available to him it's all just Trying to give him better experience than I had not getting diagnosed my whole life until it's almost done with school versus right trying to not be that overbearing parent who's like, my kids got this this and it needs this and this.
Christine Henry: Yes, yes. What was funny is Serenity first one of the first teacher conferences we have I think it was in kindergartner first grade. And they said Serenity is a little too honest. with her peers And I was like what in there because my husband and I are very blunt and we just say it how it is. And so She's her friends hey, do you like my drawing and she's like no, that's ugly. And so we're trying to talk to her and she's like you want me to lie, like what and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: I'm like, you can say you like your picture or I like the color red in that Rose or something, right? But how to navigate that. But yeah, my husband I looked at of course both like this. So of course it would be something that she would have to but I think like you said my kids are growing up with such a different experience.
Christine Henry: And my husband and myself how we talk about it, we use identity first language. This is who we are our ADHD brain. We got bumper stickers, but my son came home and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: he's like guess what mom there's a new kid on the bus. He's ADHD and dislike sick too and we high five, and so many of his friends are all so ADHD autistic a lot of them undiagnosed. So that's hard sitting with the mom and chatting ambulance. Yeah, they do that. Yeah. but
Christine Henry: But just they acknowledge it and it's so different It's like this is who and Schuyler comes like that substitute didn't even know I was neurodivergent and…
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah.
Christine Henry: I'm supposed to have accommodations. I couldn't fill out that worksheet. I should have been able to do it on the computer and so already learning to advocate for himself or working on have it's just so different He doesn't think he's stupid or he understands it's difficult for me because this is a writing assignment. I can actually write but just not physically, just such a different world that thankfully I mean the world still kind of sucks for an emergency folks but at least How we talk about it as a family?
Jeremy Schumacher: And I think I did this a lot. When I worked in higher Edwards your pain for school, you're the consumer get the education you want out of it and that was such a paradigm shift for a lot of kids…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: where I think and our kid goes to a Waldorf School. So it's different anyways, but my wife an early childhood educator and so we spend a lot of time figuring out what schools gonna be a good fit for him. They go outside every single day rain snow sleep whatever like everything in his classroom is made of wood.
Christine Henry: wonderful
Jeremy Schumacher: It's very tactile and It's awesome for him again. We'll see what happens in the higher grades, but it's one of those things where just being aware early on and saying what's gonna be a good fit for my kid, whereas I was raised very conservative fundamentalists. Of course, I went to a religious school and…
00:45:00
Christine Henry: was right.
Jeremy Schumacher: it was like Go take the chalkboard erasers out go take the flag down. I had every extra task because I couldn't sit still and no one thought hey, maybe that's Jeremy is good grades. He's three weeks ahead. He's fine. Was like yeah. No, that's a totally different approach for our kid of he needs to get out of his desk. He needs to move around. He's gets overwhelmed with really loud noises. He wants to be by himself
Jeremy Schumacher: Having teachers who are aware again. it's just such a weird world to be a professional and a parent because right we talk…
Christine Henry: Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: how few therapist.
Christine Henry: Yeah, and then the counselors it was so sad was Serenity. she's more non-binary, especially when she was a middle school. She would get misgendered all the time and I think group therapy is amazing. I have two groups. I run but I was like, is there any groups that you have at school for her to go in? they're like, yeah, we have a girls Empowerment Group. I was like, that sounds great. Let's do that. And then she's like, yeah, there are other kids there that have short hair too. I was like, what is this a gender non-conforming group, is this?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: And so she went the first day they did jewelry making. And then the next time it was baking. And how does socialize as a female group like,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: what is this crap?
Christine Henry: I was so mad and you don't have to go but she hated it you don't have to go back to that, but it's these counselors thinking they're being helpful and it's like
Jeremy Schumacher: and each school district is so varied to Milwaukee again is MPS the public school system has some strengths and…
Christine Henry: Yes, yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: has a lot of weaknesses but you get out into the suburbs and it's like right there might be more resources but There are fewer teachers.
Christine Henry: right
Jeremy Schumacher: There are fewer people who are going to make accommodations or private schools don't need to make any accommodations. So it's like just balancing that not only helping our kids advocate for themselves…
Christine Henry: Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: but advocating within the education system for hey, we need more support staff or we need specifics both support staff.
Christine Henry: right Yeah, and then I've been super frustrated. That schools don't know about PDA right and a PDA is definitely yes more in the UK and Ireland and the research is there and not in the US but try and give this information. So PDA people don't know the affirming way is, persistent drive for autonomy, and then the non-affirming one is pathological demand avoidance. But how teachers manage it but also as a parent, all the parenting strategies we got for serenity was all disciplined very consequent-based. she would have school refusal struggle with school. what's the consequence for that?
Christine Henry: Like what and we took this parenting advice early on and so we did the strict behavioral crap, which is harmful. But we took everything out of her room and she only had a mattress and what the idea of her earning back privileges. She didn't care. It made no impact. She was fine with that right before pdas like yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: whatever. It was total in and so we struggled so much and all these meaning professionals. Telling us a horrible advice that I'm so glad we learned correctly because it could have so much trauma and harm right and so discovering low demand parenting. has been changing for our family. And then helping my clients…
Jeremy Schumacher:
Christine Henry: who are parents, too.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: So much of the stress of trying to use these neurotypical parenting strategies. They don't work and you feel like a horrible parent. Now especially as a therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, yeah, and you bring up a good point because I've had A lot of conversations with International therapist the research and the language is a lot different I say psychology is always 20 years behind. Where other sciences and fields are in research because it takes that long to go from Research into usable information in the therapy or diagnostic Fields. But the United States is in a weird quirky place because of how Big Pharma has been the Sole Provider of a lot of research like your higher ed institutions the Ohio State's and Big Ten universities who can afford to do it. But otherwise, it's coming from Big Pharma, which has really limited our access to what's going on with the brain and the development because we're just trying to medicate symptoms instead of trying to create an environment where people can thrive
00:50:00
Christine Henry: Yeah one then. the people wanting to maintain those systems for financial reasons, right?
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah versus talking to people who have socialized Healthcare and then the way they study it is totally different than where we're approaching it from this scarcity mindset of that's going to cost a lot or trying to help our clients navigate who's in or out of network or it doesn't matter No One's Gonna Take This Insurance So hard, especially for kids who are maybe on State? Parents or whatever. It's like best of luck.
Christine Henry: Yeah, I mean that's the thing. I felt so not everybody has thousands of dollars to spend on an evaluation for their kid. it's so sad that the school systems aren't better trained to provide those.
Jeremy Schumacher: Or you have one psychologist for 12 schools?
Christine Henry: Yes, yes and then it ends up being students who are doing the evaluations and then the professional just signs off on them.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. this took a depressing turn.
Christine Henry: But that's the thing like right for me right the social justice piece.
Jeremy Schumacher: but I think
Christine Henry: Is what drives this for me right of Wanting my clients and I have to go through the heartache right that I've gone through, As an individual as partner as a parent right as a therapist needs.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yep.
Christine Henry: That Injustice fuels me and I'm sure other folks too to make changes right to support people. And an educating others right?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: I sent all this PDA information to Serenity School. Here's this New Concept. I went to the head of the special ed Department. I'm like here be aware, when a teacher's working with the kid who's These tried and true strategy that you do will do the opposite.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and I can say I don't know what everyone's experiences but my experience with Waldorf has So far in that once I found out I was a therapist.
Christine Henry: That's awesome.
Jeremy Schumacher: and so again, it's the frustration of running into they're limited resources, but it is good for trying to learn and I think for us therapist Systems that are in place. I'm a systems thinker coming from couples therapy background right to educ Mental health system the medical system we have these things aren't working to benefit people.
Christine Henry: Yeah, right.
Jeremy Schumacher: And so trying to I think some of my clients roll their eyes when I start talking about the evils of capitalism, but you're not crazy like this is a silly system. It's bad on purpose so that you have to pay more out of pocket I would love to have a different answer…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: but that's the answer that's why this is so frustrating and so I do think more people speaking out about the stuff and organizing about it. Hopefully will lead to change.
Christine Henry: I think more a lot of people don't know they can ask for something different. with Serenity every year the gifted Academy, they always have this big research project and that was group work and all the stuff. It was like a nightmare for the radiation folks and was working with a parenting coach and they're like she can just not do that. What? We could say she's not gonna participate in that that's an option. No, it's like I know you're asking her to do this, but this does not work for her. But mind-blowing to me that you could say no, I'm not gonna do this.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah, I say that for school education you're paying for it get the education. That's true for therapy too. right I'm open with that with clients.
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: You can fire me it will be worth while to have a conversation if you want something different. I have a lot of different ways to do things and I'm not everybody's cup of tea I get that so you're not gonna offend me but we can talk about what else could I do what other ways are there for treatment and you're against when you're a consumer to say I'm not getting what I want out of this. I'd like something different.
Christine Henry: Right and as a worker too, asking for accommodations, people don't think to ask one that is a game changer for a lot of folks is just fluorescent lighting. of can I just have these lamps on instead and usually people are accommodate that it's like wow, I don't have migraines all the time …
00:55:00
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: having, earplugs in just these small tweaks. That make a huge difference, and people can do the jobs under the right conditions. and sometimes employers are open to it sometimes not.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: And advocacy I think is so important just because autism or ADHD or the diagnosis there might be zero overlap between how that shows up. Like someone…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: who is ADHD and his introvert looks a lot different than someone was ADHD is an extrovert that's not related to neurodivergence at all. But the way that it shows up looks a lot different we talked about gender differences and so a lot of workplaces or schools might have some accommodations they've done before so they know about them but being able to say hey, this is specific to me. This is what works well for me because I mean the autism diagnosis is super wide. I mean the Spectrum approach is very…
Christine Henry: All right.
Jeremy Schumacher: but adhd's 20 symptoms. You need six of them. That's a lot of variation within that one diagnosis for how many people could have that same diagnosis and not have any of the same symptoms.
Christine Henry: And I've had some clients that. have concerns and disclosing the diagnosis understandably, but they're like Why is it matter that I'm autistic? This should be for everybody right? having this us do this.
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: This way doesn't work for anybody. And so I think they really make a great point of yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: let's examine. Why is this system in place? and how can it be more worker friendly, but as you said kind of a capitalist? Workers don't matter in some situations, right?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and then getting people comfortable walking away from that situation or leaving hey, if that's not a good fit then. We can't be revolutionaries in every aspect of our life. Sometimes it's simpler to just say yeah. This isn't a good fit. I'm gonna find something else.
Christine Henry: Yeah, yeah. just advocating for yourself period right
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Let's talk therapy dogs real quick.
Christine Henry: Yes, yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: You said five dogs?
Christine Henry: there Yeah, I have five dogs. we found them or rescued them or whatever, but my therapy dog Murphy is amazing. I got him from somebody who was rehoming them because they were traveling a lot but he grew up in a nursing home being a therapy dog. So he was already kind of socialized for that.
Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.
Christine Henry: I have always known I wanted to have a therapy dog forever,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: but it was just finding the right one. And so when I found him, it was just like all the stars aligned and everything and I was telling the director at the Counseling Center. I was like, I want this therapy dog, and I kind of got dismissed no. We'll see if you actually do it. Number one ADHD all these ideas that don't fall through so understand that. But worked on training him for a year to do the work but there was this concerned and higher ed, right like liability. Is there concern But hurricane Harvey happened in Houston.
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: And they'll Devastation was bad. and then the director is like Hey.
Christine Henry: Maybe this would be a good opportunity to bring a therapy dog on campus for this. So I really believe that if that didn't happen, I don't think he would have gotten on campus. so he and I worked that the week after Hurricane Harvey we did Outreach we saw I don't know close to a thousand people interacting because I had the little clicker to see right if we're interacting with folks, but it made such a huge huge.
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: Everybody knew Murphy on campus and their heads would be down and they would be feeling sad and they would see him and they would just smile. You…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: it was so funny because he would be watching him and you could see his tail noticing it would wag a little slower when they look up and then when they smile they start wagging even more and they would come for those few minutes.
Christine Henry: They would have some reprieve we also volunteered when there was a school shooting in Santa Fe. And seeing those students they were kind of walking around zombies, but then they would see Murphy and they would just light up and smile. it was so awesome. And so then he was able to come with me and he came to me work with me every day,…
01:00:00
Jeremy Schumacher:
Christine Henry: and it was great morale for the staff. He would go to staff meetings,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: it was awesome, but At the trauma clients. It was amazing, I don't trust people I don't want a human to touch me, but I'll take cuddles from an animal all day. It really helped relax them in Divergent folks as well. it was kind of a stemy thing to that people could do but their energy
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: it was amazing and then he is Super in tune with people's emotions and this wasn't anything I trained him to do but when people were dysregulated he would stand on them. And so it was always like a joke with clients. that you were doing well and you were regulated when Murphy would be sitting in his bed on the floor away from you. you know, and it was funny people would come into session talking about something and Murphy would be in his bed, and I'm like I don't know if this is the meat is this really what you want to talk about? And they're like mmm. No, actually I want to talk about moving out blah blah and then Murphy would stand up. I was like, okay now we're talking about what really is bothering you.
Jeremy Schumacher: Say yeah, and what kind of dog is Murphy? nice I have
Christine Henry: He's a miniature poodle. So the little hypoallergenic to right didn't shed?
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah. Yeah.
Christine Henry: So I think that that was also helpful and then he's manageable that I could pick him up.
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Christine Henry: .
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I have a Chihuahua in the house and one great day. We had her brother though, too. So I had two Great Dane mixes.
Christine Henry: my goodness.
Jeremy Schumacher: And so I'm hearing you say therapy dog stands on someone and I'm like wouldn't work with my hundred twenty pound dog.
Christine Henry: But for some people that waited blanket of animal can be really regulating right and…
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: can get your service dogs and train them to put that pressure and all of that. So he's 16 pounds.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: So, he's not like Chihuahua size,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: but he's also not significant. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure, made my two hours 14 pounds. He's a big Chihuahua.
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Christine Henry: Yeah, we have a drama. This is I think yeah about that too. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: but we
Jeremy Schumacher: when I worked at higher ed. We had two Comfort dogs. So not formal therapy dogs, but the Comfort dogs on campus and just what you're saying. It's walking around campus during exam week or midterms and everybody wants to come and pet him for a little bit and just the people relax and we'll tell you more and start processing some things. It's really wonderful.
Christine Henry: And what's interesting is when people were really dysregulated or I was really just regularly. He would actually have a seizure. And so…
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Christine Henry: what it looked like and I forget the technical term, but it was like air humping right but it would be like he would have all this energy and he didn't know how to get it out, but it would happen like a client. He's sitting in the bed client walks in the room and Bam. He has that little seizure and at first I thought Murphy you don't expect I'm fine, and then 30 minutes into the session they disclose something really heavy and Murphy new. So I started trusting him over my clients as far as you…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: how this regulated that they were.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and because I've rescue dogs using them as an analogy for people of trauma of Right, my dog needs to go exercise or…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: it's gonna know on the couch or it's gonna have an accident when its not and it's routine. it's normal stuff. It's not getting it needs Matt.
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: And so not only the physical Comfort they can provide but also the metaphor of we understand that works for dogs, but we think that doesn't work for us humans and no same your brain works the same way.
Christine Henry: That's why So I do virtual therapy only because it's awesome for work life balance and my own nervous system. I felt bad retiring Murphy. But I love that my clients can have their pets in their homes and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Mm-hmm
Christine Henry: they become part of the work.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: They're a cat will jump up and what are they telling me right now, and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: connecting and using their animals, but exactly like you're saying, I'm asking, I'm feeling sick and asking for help from someone feels horrible and I'm like, okay well with your dog when they're throwing up do you or you're an idiot why …
01:05:00
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: no you don't And so exactly what you're saying using that relationship to help them understand This is a healthy attachment you have and look how you view them. Can you have that same?
Christine Henry: Compassion for yourself. There's a great sign. It's like I want to be the person my dog thinks I am. Right of having a different lens to look at yourself.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, right. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: For Yeah, awesome. this has been great if people want to learn more about you…
Christine Henry: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: if they want to learn about your practice or see if one of the states they're in is one you cover. Where can they find out more about you?
Christine Henry: Yeah, my practice and website super easy to remember. It's therapy for pet people.com. And then also if you want to get hyper Focus then go down a rabbit hole. I made this Resource page that really has everything. You could want to know about 80 adult ADHD autism. tips for how to find motivation.
Christine Henry: Sensory regulation strategies other cool thing as a neurodivergent parent this parenting stuff right with that in context of managing urodiverce Minute, our own emotion regulation stuff and dealing with a whole neuro spicy family, right? And so there's a parenting stuff.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah.
Christine Henry: If you're a neurod with neurodivergent kids tons of information on PDA. I don't really work with PDA folks. I work with parents who have PDA kids or…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: Yeah, having that in my house is a lot and I'm still learning talk about. There's not much especially in…
Jeremy Schumacher: right
Christine Henry: what is PDA look like in adults? So I've attempted to get enough resources for that, but you can spend hours and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: hours on that Resource page and it's all free. so
Jeremy Schumacher: yes, and that's how we cross paths in the first place as you put up something about you you reorganized your resources page and…
Christine Henry: yeah.
Christine Henry: Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: I was like, free resources for clients that may go check this out and then follow it up right away because you said, it's very Expansive, which is awesome because there's so much. Information to process and again getting it from I'm biased but in to get it from a professional who's vetted some of it as opposed to just on tiktok or…
Christine Henry: And…
Jeremy Schumacher: wherever so yes.
Christine Henry: and there's a blogs and stuff articles, but there's also peer review journal articles. I tried to make it a point to have.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Christine Henry: All of the information And then I also do have a religious trauma page too.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and I
Christine Henry: It's not as ginormous but it's still like, where can you find support groups and just books recommended books that are you…
Jeremy Schumacher: yep.
Christine Henry: vetted by professionals all of that. That's there, too.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, yeah, and from someone who works in this similar things religious trauma adults neurodivergence, I loved your resources. I love the way it's laid out. I loved how much is there so that each person can kind of work through their own little rabbit holes and find what relates specifically to them.
Christine Henry: And I've also have resources on pet loss, too. and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yes.
Christine Henry: so looking at Quality of life for your pet right in a more quantitative way right that you can fill out maybe a partner and you can fill out to look at where do you think the pet is and then based on the numbers? are they? do they just need geriatric care or should we be thinking about you euthanization, all these different things to think about through all of that is in the pet loss resources.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah, so huge shout out to the resources tab there. We'll have all that stuff Linked In the show notes as well to make it easy for people to find.
Christine Henry: right
Jeremy Schumacher: Christine thanks for taking the time and…
Christine Henry: Yeah, yeah, it's been loving lovely geeking out with you.
Jeremy Schumacher: joining me today.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, for sure and to all our wonderful listeners. Thanks for tuning in. We'll be back next week with another new episode. Take care everyone.
Meeting ended after 01:09:18 👋