Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Everyone needs help with their mental health, even mental health professionals. Join us as we have your therapist take a seat on the couch to talk about their own mental health journey!
Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Your Therapist Needs Therapy 11 - Walking in the Woods with Erin Jones
Jeremy is joined this week by the very awesome, very genuine Erin Jones. Erin and Jeremy meander through topics of trauma in the LGBTQ+ community, how the future generations are coping with a world on fire, and how nature helps to regulate the central nervous system. Also, some love to rescue pets of all shapes and sizes!
You can find more info about Erin’s practice at her Psychology Today listing.
You can learn more about and donate to the Trevor Project here.
And as always, Jeremy and his various pursuits can be found at Wellness With Jer.
-----
Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.
If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.
Your Therapist Needs Therapy Episode Eleven - Walking in the Woods with Erin Jones
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Your Therapist Needs Therapy. The podcast where mental health professionals, get together and talk about their mental health journeys and how they navigate wellness while working in the mental health field, I'm your host Jeremy Schumacher, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. And today I am joined by Erin Jones. Erin. Thanks for joining me today.
-
(Erin)
Hi. Thank you for having me Jeremy.
00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
This is ..I'm terrible host. I always talk about things we talk about before we got started. This is your first podcast so welcome to the club.
-
00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:48.000
(Erin)
Thanks! Yeah, it's exciting. I've never I've like been on some panels before but never like a one-on-one podcast like this. So it's very interesting.
00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Well, thank you so much for joining me. I I've loved the podcast in the sense that I keep meeting new therapists.
00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:20.000
(Erin)
Yeah, that's always so so fun. It's always just such a delight to get to connect with like you know any other points of light out there, right?
00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, exactly. So the question I always like to start with is how did you get into the mental health profession?
00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:36.000
(Erin)
Oh, let's see. Well,
00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:40.000
(Erin)
my mom is a social worker. So I kind of like
00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:44.000
(Erin)
grew up with that mindset of framing
00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Mm-hmm.
-
(Erin)
and way of thinking and I think I
00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:52.000
(Erin)
just knew from a really early age that that was like kind of
00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:56.000
(Erin)
like what I wanted to do. I wanted to help people and I wanted to like,
00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:00.000
(Erin)
do something that was gonna feel really fulfilling for me, and my mom was
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:04.000
(Erin)
very fulfilled, like, you know, in her work
00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:08.000
(Erin)
and yeah, like, that was sort of really
00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:12.000
(Erin)
like, what it was about for me and I like found, you know, human
00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:16.000
(Erin)
beings in general just like a fascinating subject like
00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:20.000
(Erin)
trying to figure out, you know, how we work the way we work. And, you know, like I come from a
00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:24.000
(Erin)
family where there's a lot of generational trauma. And so like having that
00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:28.000
(Erin)
capacity and that understanding kind of on a younger
00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:32.000
(Erin)
level, like really, you know, I guess sort of like kicked me up
00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Erin)
there a little bit and like my own journey to
00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So is that like a thing that you knew from pretty young?
00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like wanting to help people but then having a parent who worked in in social work
00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so kind of knowing, like, that's a good avenue or was that like
00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
You did the college undergrad, change your major see kind of figure
00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
out that type of stuff.
-
(Erin)
No, I was taking
00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay.
-
(Erin)
AP site courses in high school, I went and got
00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:04.000
(Erin)
my bachelor's in Clinicals like and then it was. Do I want to go get a PhD
00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:08.000
(Erin)
or do I want to go get a few degree Masters? And I opted to
00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:12.000
(Erin)
go get the Master's because I was Tired of school at that point.
00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
Like I went straight. So yeah. So I was very like,
00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:20.000
(Erin)
you know, like driven and focused
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Erin)
in that particular direction. Yeah, so
00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:28.000
(Erin)
so yeah, I think it was, it was just always like a feeling and like, you know, I'm
00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:32.000
(Erin)
skilled at it, I'm really intuitive. I'm like, very good at like reading people
00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
and figuring out like mind maps. So, like, it just kind of like,
00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah,
-
(Erin)
well, pretty easily like for me.
00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so that's awesome. I, I had a similar experience, I think
00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
in like knowing what I wanted to do, I think it was
00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
figuring out within the field of psychology what that actually looked like once I got into
00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it because it is a wide and expansive thing
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So, but similar like, went for Psych knew? I was like, I dropped
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
pre-med, but then what's your experience been in the profession as far as
00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like, weaving towards finding. You know, the people you like working with
00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and finding how you like to operate. What what is that been like for you
00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:16.000
(Erin)
And it's definitely been a journey. I mean like
00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:20.000
(Erin)
in Maryland, you know we have like for our
00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:24.000
(Erin)
licensure it's like 144 hours of supervision and when I finish graduate school,
00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:28.000
(Erin)
you couldn't work one-on-one doing individual therapy
00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:32.000
(Erin)
with people outside of an agency setting like
00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:36.000
(Erin)
you couldn't be in a private practice. So my first
00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:40.000
(Erin)
Six years were spent
00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:44.000
(Erin)
in like, working in treatment, foster care.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:48.000
(Erin)
So I worked at like a transitional living facility and like, that was
00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:52.000
(Erin)
cool. I was working with queer youth but it was like the
00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:56.000
(Erin)
The Org when I joined it like it you know it was was
00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:00.000
(Erin)
it was error child of family ministries and they were very like Oh
00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.000
(Erin)
you know, we are we're like not really pressed on like all of
00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:08.000
(Erin)
the religious stuff. Like It's not a big deal But as I stayed there longer
00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:12.000
(Erin)
they got more and more so and it was very homophobic. So
00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Erin)
I think that kind of like kicked off to me. Like I definitely want to
00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:20.000
(Erin)
be working, you know, within queer community.
00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:24.000
(Erin)
You know, with kids I worked in
00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:28.000
(Erin)
Sarah like, in like Therapeutic foster care
00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:32.000
(Erin)
afterwards just doing case management, I needed a break. So I went doing
00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:36.000
(Erin)
like being like a one-on-one individual therapist
00:05:36.000 --> 00:06:00.000
00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:04.000
(Erin)
needs
00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:12.000
00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:16.000
(Erin)
therapy. But you know, when I started, there were like
00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.000
(Erin)
maybe three of us I think in the general area.
00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:24.000
(Erin)
So yeah, like that was really, you know, I
00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.000
(Erin)
think I just was pretty clear like that. Is a need there and I wanted to work
00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:32.000
(Erin)
within my own communities and then, you know, when the
00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:36.000
(Erin)
pandemic hit we switched to doing virtual sessions and I was like, Okay well this
00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:40.000
(Erin)
school um always been like pretty like avid outdoor
00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:44.000
(Erin)
person. So I decided to like
00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:48.000
(Erin)
alter my model and now I do virtual sessions and then I do
00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:52.000
(Erin)
therapy out in the woods, I take people for walks and, you know, hang out in the
00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
forest. So, That's great. It's with like,
00:06:56.000 --> 00:07:00.000
(Erin)
any I really often feel like How did I
00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:04.000
(Erin)
get that fortunate? That that's what I get to do. Every day
00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, for sure.
-
(Erin)
for work.
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm gonna nitpick some questions in there and dig some stuff out, but I think it's
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I think a that's awesome and I absolutely want to circle back and talk about how
00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you're practicing now because that's very cool.
00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Hang on my Internet's
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Glitching. Got this back out.
00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'd make a timestamp note for my my lovely media person.
00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay, can you hear me, okay?
-
(Erin)
He? I can.
00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay, it's just froze for a second. It's on my end we've
00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
got all that really great, smoke and terrible stuff from the
00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
wildfires going on here.
-
(Erin)
Oh, you've got it going on there now?
00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, I'm in Milwaukee. So like Chicago is the worst but we,
00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it's really bad here right now.
-
(Erin)
No. Yeah,
00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay. Yeah.
-
(Erin)
it was a strange here when that happened.
00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
All right, I'm gonna pick up where I left off here loosely.
00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Um, okay, so I'm curious kind of in your
00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
experience. Then you talk about you started out at this agency and
00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it got more more and more conservative. But then you also have this experience
00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
of like, the poly community is, has really spread out and become much more
00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
socially accepted and you joked everybody's poly. Now, I'm
00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
in very conservative Wisconsin so I can attest to the fact that that's not true, but also
00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like I had a similar experience. I started out working at a
00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
religiously affiliated organization and and have seen kind of like
00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
this weird homogenization. Like the
00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Religious community getting almost more and more
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
limited and who they're doing outreach to whereas society at large is getting
00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
more and more accepting and open-minded.
-
(Erin)
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.000
(Erin)
It was really like by the end of it.
00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:00.000
(Erin)
I I really couldn't stay there like on
00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:04.000
(Erin)
a matter of principle, like I was working with teenage girls,
00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:08.000
(Erin)
16 To 21. You know, in foster care like they were supposed to be
00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:12.000
(Erin)
doing transitional living and, you know, most of them were
00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:16.000
(Erin)
queer or like, you know, we have a lot of kids that were trans
00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:20.000
(Erin)
even though they might not have known that, you know, fully yet and, you know,
00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:24.000
(Erin)
the the agency rules for, like they wouldn't let the girls
00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.000
(Erin)
hug one another or like be in each other's rooms. And I was like, bro, like
00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Erin)
They're not going to get pregnant like touches, good,
00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Erin)
like figuring out how safe connection is good. Not necessarily
00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:40.000
(Erin)
advocating that like, you know, you like turn down the lights and put some music
00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:44.000
(Erin)
on but like allowing them to have that
00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.000
(Erin)
kind of connection, like it was just it became so
00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:52.000
(Erin)
Stringent and still so intensive. And when I started, yeah, it
00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:56.000
(Erin)
wasn't as much like that, but it got more and more. So, and I
00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:00.000
(Erin)
probably stayed for like a year longer than I should have. I was pretty burnt when I left,
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
because the way. But, you know, yeah. Like
00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:08.000
(Erin)
No, that was fine. In my next agency was like, really, you know,
00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:12.000
(Erin)
it was foster care. So it was still hard, you know,
00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:16.000
(Erin)
in terms of just like what what you know kids are dealing with,
00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:20.000
(Erin)
but it didn't have those, you know, tones of homophobia and,
00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure. So how do you,
-
(Erin)
you know, sort of things like that.
00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
how are you kind of navigating that for yourself as as
00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a therapist
00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
needs
00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:40.000
00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
therapy of right away? Was that something that you like had a consult
00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
group that you worked through it with or your own therapist?
00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:52.000
(Erin)
Um well I mean I think I went into it knowing that that was not
00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:56.000
(Erin)
where I wanted to end up. You know, that was I'm gonna do this work
00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:00.000
(Erin)
to get my, you know, clinical hours that I need and supervision and then I'm
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:04.000
(Erin)
gonna get that. I don't know if I can swear on here and then I'm gonna get the f*** out.
00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, you can swear on here.
-
(Erin)
That was yeah, yeah like
00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:12.000
(Erin)
okay good. So yeah that was the I mean that was pretty much it. I knew
00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:16.000
(Erin)
that it was going to be temporary and yeah, like I had a therapist
00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:20.000
00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.000
(Erin)
needs
00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:52.000
00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:00.000
(Erin)
Um, so, you know, I I
00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:04.000
(Erin)
definitely like slammed that door pretty hard when I left
00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:08.000
(Erin)
like I was just like, I'm done with you people and you're not doing it right?
00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Erin)
And I was pretty pretty clear about that. I think.
00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Did you?
-
(Erin)
Yeah, if not not shied away from having opinions.
00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, did you feel like you had it almost sounds like, you feel
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like you didn't really have great opportunity coming out of grad school for where you wanted to
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
work, looking at like, how you're working. Now, I know that I own my own practice
00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and run it the way that I'm happy running it, but like that wasn't a thing that I knew
00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
was possible coming out of grad school. That was that was not an option. Anyone
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
talked about definitely didn't promote.
00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.000
(Erin)
Yeah, no. No. I mean, it's changed now. So that coming out of
00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:48.000
(Erin)
graduate school, like, you know, people can work independently
00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:52.000
(Erin)
as long as they have supervision can work, you know, doing yeah, doing
00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:56.000
(Erin)
one-on-one therapy. But I mean, I imagine that we're probably close to the same
00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
He?
-
(Erin)
age, maybe I'm 40, I don't know how how old you are but you know, and
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.000
(Erin)
2008, you know, which was when I finished grad school
00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:08.000
(Erin)
like, Yeah, no, they're really weren't any options other than working for
00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:12.000
(Erin)
an agency or working for a hospital or, you know, some
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:16.000
(Erin)
sort of like more managed care with lots of bureaucracy
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.000
(Erin)
and like a bunch of stupid things that they wanted you to do that. We're
00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
duplication of effort. And, you know, you don't have I don't have to explain that
00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.000
(Erin)
to you. That's how it was. There weren't any options for that. So it was like, Do this thing
00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah,
-
(Erin)
so that you can go do it the way you want to do it.
00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I feel like that was, I agree. That's changed. I'm a little bit
00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
younger than you but not significantly and it's it's one of those things where
00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I look at young people coming out of grad school now and they're like interested in opening their own
00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
practices and it's like that's awesome. That should absolutely be what we're promoting but
00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you know I graduated my grad, school was 2009 to
00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
2011 and I was not at all aware that it was even an option to
00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
own your own place.
-
(Erin)
Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't you know I don't
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.000
(Erin)
think for for us at that point in time, you know,
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:08.000
(Erin)
now it is. But that's really only been within the last
00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:12.000
(Erin)
probably like, A little bit pre-pandemic.
00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:16.000
(Erin)
I think where they were starting to let like algae's or lcs or people
00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.000
(Erin)
with, you know, with their I guess
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
graduate like licenses, not their full clinical licenses, like, Do that
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Now.
-
(Erin)
work. So it's really Recent, I think.
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, did you come out of grad school with your lcsw or were you
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
LPC? Okay,
-
(Erin)
Lcswc. Yeah. So
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so and for those non-therapy people who are listening, the three of
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you who listen to the podcast that aren't therapist.
00:14:44.000 --> 00:15:04.000
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.000
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:12.000
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Therapy, pretty much it from
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the get-go. But I think in social work, especially like there is a little bit of
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a feeder system into this agency, work, you
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
stay for five or six years, inevitably burn out. And then like kind of move
00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
into your actual profession, it seems And
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
manipulatives may be a little bit strong of a word but like I think there's an aspect to it. That is
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
here's these young people who are coming out of grad school they have debt. They
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
don't know what they're doing yet. We're going to offer them a steady salary and also like
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
s***** working conditions but they're gonna take it because they don't have other options.
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.000
(Erin)
Yeah. Oh absolutely. You know, there, there are no other
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.000
(Erin)
options, we're gonna pay them the bare minimum like, you know,
00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:00.000
(Erin)
capitalize on the fact that they need supervision and all of those things and
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.000
(Erin)
like, yeah. And in nonprofit work, you know, you
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:08.000
(Erin)
wear a million hats, especially if you're at all
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:12.000
(Erin)
competent. Like, by the time I left the first agency, I was like
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:16.000
(Erin)
part of the administrative team and I was doing all of our admissions,
00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:20.000
(Erin)
like, I was like, Oh, okay, like it's cool, I don't
00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:24.000
(Erin)
mind this, it's getting me out of the office so like that's fine. I'll go meet with people
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:28.000
(Erin)
elsewhere, but yeah, I think there really is that,
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:32.000
(Erin)
that feeder, and it's kind of, you know, you
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:36.000
(Erin)
think about it really. Like, I came out of that pretty much being
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:40.000
(Erin)
like well. It doesn't really matter what happens going on in the future because
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.000
(Erin)
it's never going to be as hard as that. Like, you know, I was
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:48.000
(Erin)
like it, you know, pretty much at that point. Like nothing
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:52.000
(Erin)
is gonna really like rock me too. Well
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Erin)
to, you know, rock me too, intensely. So that was kind of a nice thing.
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.000
(Erin)
Like you know, one of those things to go into private practice with was like Well
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.000
(Erin)
you know like it's basically gonna be much easier from here on in.
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
Um, so I I did take that one but yeah no. I mean
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:12.000
(Erin)
the burnout rate is like so high and you really have you know people
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:16.000
(Erin)
who are young and don't have a lot of experience
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:20.000
(Erin)
working with populations that are so high
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:24.000
(Erin)
intensity. I never like engage with
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:28.000
(Erin)
like people in the space, you know that here
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:32.000
(Erin)
now than that I did like you know in in those
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:36.000
(Erin)
agencies like you know the level just of
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.000
(Erin)
intensity. For care so much higher. So you've got inexperienced
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:44.000
(Erin)
people in s***** working conditions working with populations
00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:48.000
(Erin)
that are you know, far far more.
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.000
(Erin)
Require a lot more.
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
It's totally a feeder
00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, the more I talk to different people
-
(Erin)
system. It's
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
who are in different geographic locations, so I'm like Oh no, like this is a
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
structural thing. Not and like weird quirk of the Midwest where
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
mental health services are limited. So, but now,
-
(Erin)
Gross.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you know, owning your own private practice running things the way you do.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Walking in the woods, Tell me a little bit about because it sounds like you knew your your
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
niche early on niche. It's one of those words that I hate saying out loud because
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
different people pronounce it differently.
-
(Erin)
Yeah, I know. I'm
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
But you, you knew you wanted to work in within the
-
(Erin)
quite sure.
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
queer community. You knew that you wanted to be helping that specific population, How did you
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
kind of move to like we're gonna do nature walks? We're gonna walk and talk. We're
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
gonna process things that way, like Was that a training you picked up somewhere?
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Was that just something that vibed for you personally kind of how to build in your practice that
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
way come about
-
(Erin)
Well, you know, when
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:56.000
(Erin)
I was in that first homophobic agency, I will say
00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:00.000
(Erin)
that the grounds were really nice. It was on an old farm. So I
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.000
(Erin)
used to take the kids out for walks. I grew up in a really rural area
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:08.000
(Erin)
like on a farm actually. So like you know
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.000
(Erin)
nature was always was always like my medicine and so
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.000
(Erin)
like you know, taking the kids for walks like I noticed that they really
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:20.000
(Erin)
did a lot better and then you know, as I
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.000
(Erin)
Continued in training and learned about bilateral
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.000
(Erin)
stimulation. And, you know, All the,
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:32.000
(Erin)
you know, the benefits of being in nature as far as like you know
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:36.000
(Erin)
putting your brain in a meditative state but like walking, right?
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:40.000
(Erin)
It is bilateral stimulation and the eyes are tracking while you're moving and
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.000
(Erin)
I don't, you know, I'm sure you know that's the underlying principle for EMDR, right? So
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Erin)
like Um, you know, I, I think I
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:52.000
(Erin)
have tended to find that like, some of the things that are the most profoundly
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Mm-hmm.
-
(Erin)
healing are some of the things that are the most simple.
00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.000
(Erin)
Like, go take a walk, go take a shower, spend
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.000
(Erin)
a little time outside, you know, take some breaths.
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
So, yeah. I mean, it started like a,
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:12.000
(Erin)
you know, I left my group practice, like, in the center of the,
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:16.000
(Erin)
like, in the middle of the pandemic.
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:20.000
(Erin)
My I had a personal, like, loss, my, my other parent who
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.000
(Erin)
had had for 16 years, Past really suddenly
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:28.000
(Erin)
and I was like that was really heavy and then
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:32.000
(Erin)
at the same time we were switching ehrs. So,
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:36.000
(Erin)
And the EHRs that my, you know, the
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:40.000
(Erin)
owner of the practice chose. We're just like not good ehrs.
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.000
(Erin)
And I was like, I literally cannot cognitively
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:48.000
(Erin)
learn how to do this mess. So I just was
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:52.000
(Erin)
like, all right, time to go. I kept all of my clients for the most part, like, people came
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yep.
-
(Erin)
with me, you know, and I also knew that like, I, I
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.000
(Erin)
wanted to get out of working with insurance, you I know, struggle with that one, for a
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.000
(Erin)
really long time because I believe so deeply and accessibility, but I was just like, I
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
can't, you know, if I like run my own
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:12.000
(Erin)
practice with maybe some other people and have a building service like that would be cool.
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:16.000
(Erin)
But like for just me like, no, I'm not gonna do that. And yeah like
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:20.000
(Erin)
I'm an avid hiker and avid outdoors person you know I had
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.000
(Erin)
I'm like in kind of remission from fibromyalgia right
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:28.000
(Erin)
now. So like as I started to get better and
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:32.000
(Erin)
like be more able to like engage with nature and be
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:36.000
(Erin)
more. Body. Like I took that and was like Wow this is so like
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.000
(Erin)
healing and helpful for me like okay we're in the middle
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.000
(Erin)
of a pandemic. We can't really meet with people face to face. Like
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:48.000
(Erin)
why don't I go for walks outside in the woods?
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.000
(Erin)
So you know, we started that way, you know doing mask walks outside
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.000
(Erin)
so people could get, you know some face-to-face time and it just sort of like
00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.000
(Erin)
move from there and then it was funny like I started seeing all these like the
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.000
(Erin)
center for nature and the environment, you know, or nature and therapy and like
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:08.000
(Erin)
everybody doing these. Like You know, all of the
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:12.000
(Erin)
trainings and all of the certification and turning it into a thing that's monetized.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
And I was like, Oh, well like that's cool but you know, I I
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:20.000
(Erin)
think it was very interesting to be like Ah this is a thing and then
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.000
(Erin)
suddenly to see it kind of coming out that way and I'm sure the pandemic had to do
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Oh, for sure.
-
(Erin)
With that, like how. Yeah. Oh okay. Now we can be it
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:32.000
(Erin)
will be outside and do this. So yeah I know it's really just
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.000
(Erin)
kind of. Yeah. Like reading
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.000
(Erin)
the room if you will and my own
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.000
(Erin)
you know really having my own benefit from it. And and having had the experience
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:48.000
(Erin)
of how beneficial it was to the kids when I was working with them before.
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure. Yeah.
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm doing my ADHD thing where I have eight different
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
questions. I want to ask at once What's what
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
for you? Is it like working, especially with like the the queer population?
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I know, on your website you have like, ethical nominogamy and some of those
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
other Relationships setups, listed as things you
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
work with, What is it like in our like, modern times where on the one side
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
society is, is moving to be more accepting and open-minded about these
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
things. And then also like the trans community, especially, but
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the lgbtq+ community at large is really under attack
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
from political bad actors.
-
(Erin)
Yeah,
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:36.000
(Erin)
you know. It's beautiful and it's
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:40.000
(Erin)
heavy. And sometimes it's
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.000
(Erin)
you know, joyful and transformative.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:48.000
(Erin)
like, The the trans kids that I work with,
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.000
(Erin)
you know, and it's neat, like I have some now that I started seeing
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.000
(Erin)
when they were like 14 and like now they're, you know, getting their master's degree
00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Mm-hmm.
-
(Erin)
public health, like, you know, but the,
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.000
(Erin)
the kids that I have, you know, now, like they're just so with
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:08.000
(Erin)
it, you know, my trans kids are just so with it, and they are so
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:12.000
(Erin)
aware and they are so, like actively doing
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:16.000
(Erin)
the work to nurture and care for one another
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:20.000
(Erin)
to help each other regularly. So it's heavy, you know,
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.000
(Erin)
we talk about it, be we sit with that. And then we
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:28.000
(Erin)
also kind of, you know, sit with the idea that like pursuing
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:32.000
(Erin)
joy and healing and contentment like that in and of
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.000
(Erin)
itself is revolutionary and is sort of the thing that we
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:40.000
(Erin)
have to You know, kind of keep our eye
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.000
(Erin)
on moving because you know you want to be aware of those things
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:48.000
(Erin)
certainly and feel them in process them but can't live
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
in that space. Um, so like, you know,
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.000
(Erin)
some days, it's heavy some days, you know, it's scary.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.000
(Erin)
You know, but I think,
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.000
(Erin)
like, Keeping helping people to stay sort of in the present
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:08.000
(Erin)
and like focused on their own.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:12.000
(Erin)
Words, liberation and safety. You know, is kind of how
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
we We move through in that way, you know, we'll
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:20.000
(Erin)
make, you know, references, and I mean, and that's the thing. Like, I'm an
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.000
(Erin)
anti-capitalist like, very decolonizing my therapy practice. So we talk
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:28.000
(Erin)
about systems and capitalism, and colonialism, and all
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:32.000
(Erin)
of these things all the time, you know, in terms of like this
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
is not you, you know, this is this system that is
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:40.000
(Erin)
causing this, you know, like I swear like, 90% of my job
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.000
(Erin)
is saying it's not you it's capitalism and like some Very good
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
in some variation. So you know, it's the that's kind of
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:52.000
(Erin)
like, you know, The awareness of all of those things is very interwoven in practice
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.000
(Erin)
but you know I noticed that it's also really helpful
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.000
(Erin)
like having, you know, the kids outside on walks like having the
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.000
(Erin)
opportunity just like not have to work so hard to regulate their
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. No,
-
(Erin)
nervous systems because the forest do that.
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
let's talk about that because Obviously, most of the people who are listening to
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
podcasts, are other practitioners or people who are already nerdy about therapy, but I still
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
think trauma-informed. Care is
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Way, less common than it should be. And even I think people who
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
think they understand or at least know about trauma, but aren't actively working
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
with trauma are missing. A lot of things that those of us who work with trauma.
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Are like, No, no, like this is, This is how it works. You need these things.
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So you talked about bilateral, stimulation before.
-
(Erin)
Yeah. just,
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Which is good but nerdier than I want to get right now. So let's talk about like the central
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
nervous system. So so what is it about? Trauma.
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm sorry I'm not meaning to make this a pop quiz for you but I nerd out about this
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
stuff. Drama on the central nervous system. Why are those things linked? Like How is that? Why is
00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that a thing? That is the therapist
-
(Erin)
I mean
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.000
(Erin)
because like, you know, trauma is a thing that is
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:08.000
(Erin)
like fell bodily, you know. Trauma is a
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.000
(Erin)
physiological response trigger as a physiological response, right? It is your
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:16.000
(Erin)
body going immediately into fight or flight or
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:20.000
(Erin)
freeze or fawn. And so, like working
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.000
(Erin)
somatically, right? Like, you know, our like What is that quote? Like I
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:28.000
(Erin)
throw it out a lot that like, you know, your brain is there to keep you safe, not to keep you happy.
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Mm-hmm.
-
(Erin)
So, like really having to be
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:36.000
(Erin)
mindful of the fact that when we're activated right? Like,
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:40.000
(Erin)
before we start telling ourselves, the story like we have to
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.000
(Erin)
address and hold our nervous system right and learn how to
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:48.000
(Erin)
do that. And so many people don't write if people don't have
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.000
(Erin)
you know, responsive parenting or people that can teach them
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.000
(Erin)
how to do that or their parents are just regulated you know within themselves
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Erin)
like we don't Aren't right. We don't learn how
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.000
(Erin)
bad. And so when a trigger activates right, a lot of times I think
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:08.000
(Erin)
and I do a lot of parts work too, right? It's this young part this
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:12.000
(Erin)
kid nervous system, right? That we are reacting and responding to in that moment
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.000
(Erin)
when you're thrown back, you know, even your
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:20.000
(Erin)
you're being activated around. Like, you know, is a more
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.000
(Erin)
recent one. I think that those parts that are very like scared
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:28.000
(Erin)
and feeling flooded and overwhelmed, you know,
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:32.000
(Erin)
your nervous system sort of forgets that you are
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Hmm.
-
(Erin)
an adult with tools that knows how to regulate and sometimes people don't.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.000
(Erin)
So yeah, trauma the central nervous system. Trauma is a somatic response,
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Erin)
bodily response, You know, and we have to work thematically because,
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.000
(Erin)
like I could sit up here and spin every single
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.000
(Erin)
like thought or, or, you know, thread out, but that's not
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.000
(Erin)
gonna make my nervous system, calm down. Oftentimes, I'm gonna just be
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.000
(Erin)
thinking through the lens of Anxiety or the trigger. And it's gonna like,
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.000
(Erin)
You know, fold in on itself. Whereas if you like
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
engage with the body like that's Calming it.
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:12.000
(Erin)
I mean, we can totally nerd out on the on the the
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Now.
-
(Erin)
specific specifics of that process. But I'm trying to be a little bit.
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I have no idea. I should track my audience better.
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I know a lot of therapist
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
needs.
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:32.000
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:36.000
(Erin)
Yep.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:40.000
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Therapy to think
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
intensely and I work with a lot of medical personnel.
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So people who are working in hospitals or nurses or people who are
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
first responders paramedics type things like all these people have
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
trauma, but they're so used to it like intellectualizing that
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
they know what trauma is but not, like, working through the experience
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
of trauma. And so, even I think something like covid
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Recently, all of us, most of us, I don't know. Maybe there's some exceptions
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
out there. I feel comfortable saying all of us went through a collective trauma, but then like
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the LGBTQ community also living through ongoing
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
traumatic times of not being allowed to feel safe or
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
having people who they they need security and safety from and not getting it from
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
those people. So I I love that the
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
idea of nature nature really helps to stimulate or to regulate the nervous
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
system by stimulating. All these different responses. In your nervous system because your brain
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
is processing busy processing. All this external stimuli so your body
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
can actually do what it's supposed to do instead of blh haywire.
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.000
(Erin)
Yeah, you know it's it's fully immersive, right?
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.000
(Erin)
Like you know, we see a lot of like sound bats for healing and
00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:00.000
(Erin)
and you know music therapy and art therapy. Like being a
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.000
(Erin)
nature. Is fully immersive. You're hearing. Sounds, you're smelling smells like
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:08.000
(Erin)
it gives yeah. That brain kind of like a place to
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.000
(Erin)
to rest a little bit right while you're nervous
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.000
(Erin)
system like, you know, kind of regulates
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:20.000
(Erin)
itself. And I think that there's the perspective right of being in
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.000
(Erin)
nature of seeing ourselves as like Not alone
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:28.000
(Erin)
and connected to a greater web and inner species web,
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:32.000
(Erin)
because it the other. Like, you know, we talk about like,
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:36.000
(Erin)
we have the trauma of covid and the pandemic, and the trauma that
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.000
(Erin)
LGBTQ people are facing. And then, we also have this trauma of like,
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:44.000
(Erin)
isolation and loneliness, a lack of community, lack of connection. And so,
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:48.000
(Erin)
you know, Just having people
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.000
(Erin)
like. Kind of held in that space of,
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:56.000
(Erin)
you know, there are other consciousness out there like there's other forms of
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.000
(Erin)
consciousness. There are, you know, these trees are talking to one another underneath the ground
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.000
(Erin)
through the mycilial. Work like, you know, seeing
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:08.000
(Erin)
ourselves as connected to and part of something greater I think is another way of
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.000
(Erin)
like helping to regulate. And even out that
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:16.000
(Erin)
nervous system you know parents taught me have taught me back because their
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:20.000
(Erin)
flock creatures. You know, I they should never be pets.
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.000
(Erin)
They should not live inside and they should not live without their
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:28.000
(Erin)
connected unity. You know, Bones won't like
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:32.000
(Erin)
Will will not be okay if she's not in the same
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:36.000
(Erin)
room as I am because that's what makes her feel safe, right? And so
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Erin)
in the like connection, to other folks, sometimes or
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.000
(Erin)
connection to community, like we sort of have to get that connection wherever we can. And I
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:48.000
(Erin)
think that, you know, the the forest also offers us that if
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:52.000
(Erin)
we can frame it that way, Yeah.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, and I I came out of a postmodern school of thought
00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
around therapy, and so I started with narrative therapy and then moved to collaborative language.
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
But like, narrative therapies really heavy on analogy and I love nature because
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
it allows for so much metaphor, like What season of life
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
are you in? Look at the trees. Like they go through these different seasons, they're alive and they're connected
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the whole time but they're not. You know they look different in the winter and then
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
summer they look different when they're a sapling versus when they've been growing for 50 years
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and uninterrupted. So I think it's I think that
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
too like it regulates the nervous system and being in nature but it does allow for
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
someone that intellectual different perspective and and meaning,
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
making and metaphor building with just something like
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Going through a forest and going through for a walk.
-
(Erin)
Hmm, yeah, it really does. I'm
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.000
(Erin)
very I'm very big on metaphor and analogy, you know?
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:48.000
(Erin)
I try to as much as possible, like explain things so that a five year old could understand
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:52.000
(Erin)
them. And so that means that you know, you're breaking things down like into,
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:56.000
(Erin)
you know, a metaphor or you know,
00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:00.000
(Erin)
like some some level of example that is like a little bit more
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. What's your experience?
-
(Erin)
easily accessible.
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't work with teens very much anymore. I have some exceptions,
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I guess I work, I work with athletes, I have Too many specialties that
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
are unrelated, but I don't. So usually it's worth that with the
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
athletic side for a minute. I don't know, maybe Pre-covid.
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I guess I would say I felt like a lot of youth were getting more
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
training around like emotional skills distress tolerance.
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
They were doing some of those things and now we've kind of seen this weird boomerang of
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
boomerang effects where people are pushing back for some reason like Letting
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
your kids learn how to regulate themselves as a bad thing for some reason.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
What's your experience with kind of like working with you, with working with teens, and
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that younger population? Are they coming to therapy with more skills
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
already? Or is it a kind of a mixed bag?
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:56.000
(Erin)
I mean the ones that I'm seeing are coming to it
00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:00.000
(Erin)
with like knowledge and awareness at 14 15 16 that I
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Mmm.
-
(Erin)
didn't have until my mid-20s there. So
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:08.000
(Erin)
Aware. And so with it and
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:12.000
(Erin)
Like, you know, seeing things in
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:16.000
(Erin)
a more holistic way than I I ever did as a, as a young
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:20.000
(Erin)
person. So like, I think they're coming with more awareness, I think they're coming with
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.000
(Erin)
more skills. They're coming with language. You know, the like, I mean, you know,
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:28.000
(Erin)
we we could spend a lot of time talking about like the pop culture, like,
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:32.000
(Erin)
you know, the therapeutic terminology that's being used
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:36.000
(Erin)
all over the place which, you know, Hey, I'm more for that than I am against it
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:40.000
(Erin)
because, like good, like, give people language, give people words to be able to
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.000
(Erin)
talk about it, and connect to others and to feel seen and understood and I think that,
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:48.000
(Erin)
you know, with kids because they live on the Internet most of them
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:52.000
(Erin)
anyway like they they yeah they do. They already have the
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:56.000
(Erin)
language, they already have the lexicon there coming in and self-diagnosing
00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
you know like like my trans kids, you know like with
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.000
(Erin)
autism like their diagnosing they are like looking at what they're
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:08.000
(Erin)
experiencing and naming it and you know finding
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:12.000
(Erin)
frames. So, That they're not like they're not internalizing
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:16.000
(Erin)
you know as much which is like really wild
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.000
(Erin)
and cool. Yeah, like I love working with kids. You know
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.000
(Erin)
the world outside might seem like Pretty gross. And
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:28.000
(Erin)
like there's a lot of really harmful stuff happening and there is but like you know,
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:32.000
(Erin)
working with with teens working with trans teens queer, teens
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:36.000
(Erin)
particularly. It's just like so, like affirming, you know, as as far
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:40.000
(Erin)
like, okay well you know, there might be a lot of changes but humanity
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah,
-
(Erin)
I think is probably going to be okay if these people are in charge someday.
00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
definitely I experienced that in couples work working with. I would say
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm I'm a millennial but younger Millennials and older
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Gen Z like just the way they're approaching relationships and their communication.
00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
A lot of what I end up working with is actually the intergenerational piece of it,
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
where they're learning, how to navigate the adult world and their older
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
generations. Not like in their lifestyles as opposed to anything to
-
(Erin)
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
particularly unhealthy that they're doing. So I agree. I think there's a
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
double-edged sword with some of that self-diagnosis. In my line of work, I work with a lot
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
of ADHD and neurodiversity and Sometimes the information people are
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
getting from tiktok. It's just flatly wrong, but but I do think it's helpful.
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I think those conversations being like, out in the open is, is super helpful
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
whether or not that information is always accurate. I think the fact that
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
younger people are aware of these things and tackling them earlier in their
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
development. Means they're coming into adulthood a little bit more
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
fully formed as opposed to, having to figure it out in there. Late
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
20s or early 30s. Like I feel like a lot of our generation did.
-
(Erin)
Yeah,
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:52.000
(Erin)
yeah. Like I'm definitely right on that. Elder millennial
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:56.000
(Erin)
lioness and you know, but for sure like 20s
00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:00.000
(Erin)
30s, you know, I grew up like a freaking like rural. Like, you know, my family like,
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.000
(Erin)
you know, was in the, in the Pentecostal cult, for like, maybe a couple
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:08.000
(Erin)
of years, we got out of it thankfully. But like, you know, I
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:12.000
(Erin)
didn't even know that Non-binary was a thing that I
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
could be, you know, I didn't have any, you know, and
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.000
(Erin)
I mean, and I think that's the thing, right? Like we, we
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.000
(Erin)
Our generation like didn't have a lot of queer elders. You know
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:28.000
(Erin)
at least not visible one. We lost so many people to AIDS like
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
and you know yeah like what
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:36.000
(Erin)
were our examples of what Transness was like to Wong Foo and
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:40.000
(Erin)
the Birdcage maybe and like Silence of the Lambs? Like, Whoo great.
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, really Pathologized.
-
(Erin)
Like
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:48.000
(Erin)
Yeah, very much so. And so I think you know that's a big part of it too,
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:52.000
(Erin)
right? Is that kids are seeing That there are so many different
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
ways to be, you know, and like and to have relationships
00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:00.000
(Erin)
in ways that are different and that work for them. Like, you know, I've had like the experience
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.000
(Erin)
of like my kids who have been in poly relationships for
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:08.000
(Erin)
like you know back and forth, a couple of years, their parents then coming out to them
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:12.000
(Erin)
and being like, we're trying polyamory and they're like, Okay, like you know, they're
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
just totally not. They're like, Yeah, Dad, I know what it is.
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.000
(Erin)
So yeah, I think it's I think it's really, it's really neat to
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Mm-hmm.
-
(Erin)
see that, you know. like, even with even with
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:28.000
(Erin)
everything that they are, Facing and moving into
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:32.000
(Erin)
in a world in a way where they don't have, like, you know, I think that my generation
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:36.000
(Erin)
like our generation like that millennial. There is still a little bit of
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:40.000
(Erin)
like, okay, well, if you go to school and you do the right things like, then you're gonna
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
have a happy life and be safe, and everything's gonna be fine.
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:48.000
(Erin)
These kids, you know, are do not have that.
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.000
(Erin)
Like they have full awareness of the fact that they're
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:56.000
(Erin)
inheriting the world in serious trouble in a way that I don't think we did. And so to see
00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:00.000
(Erin)
them like still continuing to like love and support
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.000
(Erin)
one another and do the work that they need to do to thrive is like
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.000
(Erin)
and find their people. Like even in the face of all of that is pretty like
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
Pumbling and beautiful.
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, I think it's easy to get bogged down in
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
some of the negatives and those things and focus on.
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Like we've had, you know, Columbine was 99. We've had 20 plus
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
years to fix school safety and we haven't done it and get get frustrated,
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
or get beat down with like Why is this still happening? And I do think
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
interacting with younger people, the younger generation and scene how they're responding to it
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
is is a much more hopeful exercise than just being doom
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and gloom about it. I'm gonna
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
pivot a little bit here. What what does a self-care?
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
What is taking care of yourself and invested in yourself? At this point in
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
your career? Kind of look like for you.
-
(Erin)
well, like I said,
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.000
(Erin)
I have a therapist
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.000
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:08.000
(Erin)
therapist
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:20.000
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure.
-
(Erin)
You know, you kind of have to be an adrenaline junkie to do that sort of work
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:28.000
(Erin)
because everything always popping off. So yeah, I
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:32.000
(Erin)
see a massage therapist
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:36.000
(Erin)
needs.
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:56.000
00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Check.
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.000
(Erin)
Therapy like, you know, and I think again
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:08.000
(Erin)
right. Like Gardening is is seasonal so
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:12.000
(Erin)
like and it's also like it
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:16.000
(Erin)
is very in stages which is really good for me as
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:20.000
(Erin)
a person who wants the results and wants them now like, you know,
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.000
(Erin)
like so I think that like, you know, it's certainly certainly
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:28.000
(Erin)
taught me patience but yeah, like plants.
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:32.000
(Erin)
You know, I'm really into music. I haven't been to
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:36.000
(Erin)
Lake festivals a large events in a couple of years because I got a little, like, on the
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
culture there. But I'm sure I'll go back again to see some, like beautiful
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.000
(Erin)
art and like, you know, creative people and cool installations
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:48.000
(Erin)
in that way. But you know, spending time with with,
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:52.000
(Erin)
you know, really close friends who are also like
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:56.000
(Erin)
aligned in, you know, doing their own work.
00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.000
(Erin)
People who Inspire me and make
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.000
(Erin)
me want to be a better version of myself.
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:08.000
(Erin)
Like I've started like getting back into like reading a little bit more.
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.000
(Erin)
I'm like revisiting bell hooks right now which is really lovely,
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:16.000
(Erin)
you know, spending time with family.
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Hmm.
-
(Erin)
Lots of stretching, you know, I'm in Pete, like, once
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.000
(Erin)
a week right now because I have like little
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:28.000
(Erin)
slip. So I think it's really like, you know, just about like taking
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:32.000
(Erin)
care of body for me. That was when I had to learn
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:36.000
(Erin)
later in life. You know. I was like an athlete through high school, and
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
He?
-
(Erin)
then I played rugby in college. So, like my way of working with my body was like, do
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
the thing like, Oh, do the thing. So now
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:48.000
(Erin)
like really learning to be gentle, making sure I get enough sleep. That I
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah. No, I love that. I I
-
(Erin)
drink a lot of water. You know.
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
think. Maybe it was on your psychology today. Profile, you have the phrase
00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Spoonies and I had to like, I actually looked it up because I was like,
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I don't know if that's what I think it is and it was, but I've heard it in
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so kind of that metaphor of We all have a certain number of spoons to start the day off
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
with and each activity or task that you're going to tackle takes
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a spoon. I heard I've heard it in the Neurodiversity community. As far as
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
ADHD goes that like that analogy is meaningful for a lot of people
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
but I believe I don't mean to speak for you but
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the way it was written contextually in your website was for people who are dealing with chronic
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
pain issues,
-
(Erin)
Yeah, yeah, I work with um, you know, I work with
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.000
(Erin)
a lot of clients with, chronic pain, chronic illnesses,
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:40.000
(Erin)
you know. Well with pots, a lot of folks with
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.000
(Erin)
Ehlers Danlos, you know, fibromyalgia. So,
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:48.000
(Erin)
really working with chronic pain and, you know, as we know like, there's a very
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:52.000
(Erin)
strong link to trauma, you know, you don't think
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:56.000
(Erin)
it's not in a way where it's like a somatic but literally like
00:44:56.000 --> 00:45:00.000
(Erin)
exposure to trauma whether it's your own or it's generational,
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.000
(Erin)
like is going to have an impact on the body and if
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:08.000
(Erin)
you're somebody who's born with a nervous system, that is a little bit more
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:12.000
(Erin)
tuned up and then you have to capitalism like you know, it's
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:16.000
(Erin)
it's gonna hit in different ways so yeah
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.000
(Erin)
you know and and I really feel like having my
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:24.000
(Erin)
own like journey with chronic illness and and you know movement
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:28.000
(Erin)
through that like like that has. I've certainly done
00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:32.000
(Erin)
trainings but Like, you know, that experience of having to really
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:36.000
(Erin)
count your spoons of like the feeling of disconnect and loss of
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:40.000
(Erin)
trust in your body, right? Like, How can you feel safe? How
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.000
(Erin)
can you be settled and grounded if you don't have
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:48.000
(Erin)
that trust in your body to like heal? And so, that's a
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
tricky one for folks with chronic conditions, right? And so we're like, you know,
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:56.000
(Erin)
Trying to keep it on the level of you can still do the things and pain psychology.
00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Erin)
Right? Is like, you know, you have to keep moving really and truly like,
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.000
(Erin)
not moving, not pushing. It is like just going to
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:08.000
(Erin)
lead to, you know, a harder time down
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:12.000
(Erin)
the line, you know, looking at like, physical sensations, as
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:16.000
(Erin)
sensations, not just a blanket of pain and like how are they? What is
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:20.000
(Erin)
a communicating to you? So I think that, you know, being
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.000
(Erin)
being body focused is like, you know, par for the course you absolutely
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Hmm.
-
(Erin)
have to do it that way. with folks, with chronic Illness. Yeah, I think spoon, spoon
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:32.000
(Erin)
theory is a great one, right? And I think it's really good because it also talks about a mode, like, it
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:36.000
(Erin)
gives a tangible for emotional energy and that's one that I don't think we talk
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Erin)
about very much but like a big thing and it can help people
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:44.000
(Erin)
to set emotional boundaries as well, right? Like, I can't talk to
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:48.000
(Erin)
this friend today because they take a lot of spoons and I don't have that
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:52.000
(Erin)
energy right now. So I think it it allows us for it
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:56.000
(Erin)
allows for like a little bit more of a like finite and tangible
00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I
-
(Erin)
way to talk about that too.
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I like that. And said in realistic, expectations as well.
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Being like, well, like I might do that if I have the social
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
bandwidth for it, or I have the, the spoons left over for it. But I
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
might have to say no and I think I'm seeing more more people
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
talk that way and I'm seeing it like, People don't care. Like,
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I think there's so much social pressure to say yes to things for so long.
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I think that's a capitalism thing. Like, doing things means, you're you're good
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
or accurate or correct in some way, but taking care of
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
yourself. I love your very expansive. Answer to self-care. And
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a lot of times when I talk with clients, I'll ask what they do for stress relief and they'll tell me one or two
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
things and and I'm like, Yeah, that's not enough gang and and there's
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
this idea that like, you know, oh I I do like
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
yoga twice a week. Like that's a fantastic jumping off point,
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
but you take stress on, You've got a history of trauma, like that's
00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
every day stuff. What are we doing every day? So I love that that
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
expensive answer is is I think what people really need to be shooting for
00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
and I'm sure you feel like you have, don't have it nailed yet, but like it's an
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
ongoing process, even for those of us who are in this profession to be like, right? Like
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
But you never at the finish line, it's never done.
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:20.000
(Erin)
No, we're not and I think part of it too. Is like, you know, when you're
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.000
(Erin)
holding Heavy things. Like it's I think
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:28.000
(Erin)
super important to create space for wonder for
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:32.000
(Erin)
child like enthusiasm for just being in a space of
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:36.000
(Erin)
joy as much as we can because what we
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:40.000
(Erin)
hold is heavy and even though, you know I'm inspired by
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.000
(Erin)
my clients all the time. As I'm sure you are you know like watching people do
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:48.000
(Erin)
that work and heal and like God I'm like tearing up thinking
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:52.000
(Erin)
about it like it is. The most incredible thing to be able to
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:56.000
(Erin)
be aligned with people or you know, walking next to them,
00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:00.000
(Erin)
you know, on that path, and that's great, but that's work. We also have to
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.000
(Erin)
like really be like mindful about. I think having
00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:08.000
(Erin)
fun and like being playful,
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:12.000
(Erin)
you know, I think especially like those of us who are like more intellectual
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
side. Like I can get a little intense, right? So
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:20.000
(Erin)
like making sure that I have things that like, you know, our our
00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.000
(Erin)
silly recently, I've been like trying I'm challenging myself to fail
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:28.000
(Erin)
at things because I don't like to do things that I don't know how to do perfectly immediately
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay.
-
(Erin)
and I'm working on that. So like this and I'm gonna go take a, you know, a
00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:36.000
(Erin)
glass blowing class or whatever like just for funsies to see, you know
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:40.000
(Erin)
how it is. I think like, you know, creating art
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.000
(Erin)
having like activities where like we're not so much in our heads, you know,
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Erin)
answer in our bodies. I think it's really important too
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
but it, you know, For me, it took Fibro and it took
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
like my body being like, Yeah, no, you're done to like really
00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:00.000
(Erin)
like get know. Like, this is how you have to do it, you know? And,
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.000
(Erin)
and to like really seek that balance and to not just like be like, no,
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:08.000
(Erin)
you know, I can do all of the things all of the time, that'd be fine.
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, that's the thing. I I say a lot working with like those those
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
medical professionals I work with and then it reminds me of like, Oh yeah, Jeremy like say
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
same thing, you're not some sort of special human because of your job.
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Your body works the exact same way. Like, at some point you will run out.
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I burned out post covid. I was in higher, ed and doing therapy and
00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
as just doing too many things, but I also think like that
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
idea of cultivating. Joy is a big one. I notice in my own work I was
00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
so focused on stress relief with people and then it took
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
kind of me going through that that oh my own burnout to be like, oh yeah, like
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
stress relief is is very important but there's another component or
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that next step of like cultivating joy or creating space for
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
for nonsensical, silly things and having fun and
00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
like creating space for happiness. Not this like endless pursuit of it
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
but like just allowing it to exist. And so I think that's
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
that's shifted a little bit through personal experience. But My work to to be like,
00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
yes stress relief is a starting point. Not like the end goal. We don't get to
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
just check that box off and be happy healthy people.
-
(Erin)
It. Yeah
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:20.000
(Erin)
yeah. And I think, you know, that's one of the things that I love about
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.000
(Erin)
This work right? Is that like if we're doing our
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:28.000
(Erin)
own right? If we're doing our own work, like the
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:32.000
(Erin)
windows, that it will open up within the work, we do with other people, you know, our
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:36.000
(Erin)
as expansive as they can be. I had a, You know, supervisor once
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:40.000
(Erin)
like and I'm sure he was quoting. Somebody say that. Like, you know, we can only take our
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:44.000
(Erin)
clients as deeply is, we're we're willing to go ourselves and like
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:48.000
(Erin)
when we talk about cultivating, joy and wonder and caring
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:52.000
(Erin)
for ourselves in a capitalist society, like, that is like,
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:56.000
(Erin)
that is deep level stuff, because we're not taught to do that, we're taught
00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Right.
-
(Erin)
to produce right? And to, like check the boxes. So I,
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:04.000
(Erin)
you know, I think that that is like some of that. Some of that deep
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.000
(Erin)
work that again, is like, very simple. But like, very hard to master
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:12.000
(Erin)
and I know that, you know, my own process and therapy in my own
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:16.000
(Erin)
like growth has like, certainly like I'm definitely a better therapist.
00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, awesome.
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I'm gonna do some rapid fire questions which I didn't prep ahead at all or let
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
you know about you talked about loving music and you're from
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:32.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Maryland. So I have to ask if you know who Dan Deacon is
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
He's like a weird.
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Chubby Redhead, who does like experimental electronica? He was just in
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Milwaukee. I saw him recently like earlier this month, he was in
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Milwaukee and I saw him and I was like Oh that be so weird. If if you knew he's
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
from Baltimore and and makes the fact that he's from Baltimore, a big deal
00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
in a lot of his music. So I was
-
(Erin)
I'm writing and down right now, actually.
00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
He's a delight. I mean, if you like weird electronica, he's
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
a delight.
-
(Erin)
Electronica, we'll see how how weird it
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:08.000
(Erin)
is. One of my partners is like, really into synths. And so like, I'm like, I can handle
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:12.000
(Erin)
your breathy things, but when you get into those very strange, sounds like, that's not for me, so we'll see.
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay. So what do like you to listen to, for music?
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:20.000
(Erin)
Um, well, I think I just like, found my summer soundtrack and it's
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.000
(Erin)
like, you know, it's like a high vibrations playlist. So a lot of
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:28.000
(Erin)
electronica like, you know, lots of lots of
00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:32.000
(Erin)
trouble and like high pitches and dancing little beats, I don't know that I can
00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:36.000
(Erin)
give it like a particular like you know name but
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:40.000
(Erin)
You know, I listen to like a lot of Govinda and
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.000
(Erin)
Polish ambassador and, you know, pretty much all electronica, except like, with
00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:48.000
(Erin)
the occasional, like bits of rising Appalachia and like some like, hardcore old
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:52.000
(Erin)
school bluegrass like thrown in there too. Sometimes you can't listen to a bat like
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Check.
-
(Erin)
banjo and not be super happy. So, Most mostly
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:00.000
(Erin)
electronica mostly high vibe stuff. At least. That's what Spotify is calling it. I
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:04.000
(Erin)
couldn't tell you if it's like house or deep tech. I know, I like liquid base.
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
So, there's there's one, but usually, I just let the Internet decide for me.
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Sure, do you listen to music while you're hiking and out in nature or you kind of
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
keep them separate?
-
(Erin)
Yeah, no. No. I don't listen to music when I'm out in nature.
00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:20.000
(Erin)
Like, if I'm walking around my neighborhood, like sometimes like, I'll, I'll
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:24.000
(Erin)
put my headphones in and like listen to music while I walk. But, you know, when I'm in the
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:28.000
(Erin)
woods, like I'm listening to the breeze and I'm listening to the
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:32.000
(Erin)
river and I'm listening to all the birds like yesterday, I like, did
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:36.000
(Erin)
my sessions right after the rainstorm, you know, that we had here and it
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:40.000
(Erin)
was just like, caffeine of, like, all of these, like, beautiful bird songs. They were so
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.000
(Erin)
excited that the rain was gone. So, yeah, no, I get the sound back experience, what
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay, awesome. I like to ask everybody,
-
(Erin)
I'm out in the woods.
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
what are you reading? Or What are you watching? Like what's? What's
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
kind of your recreational stuff? Most of therapist?
00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:00.000
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.000
(Erin)
Well, like I said, I'm I'm reading all about love
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:08.000
(Erin)
by Bell Hooks right now. I just
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay.
-
(Erin)
started rewatching the West Wing so
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:16.000
(Erin)
it would just, you know, hilarious, because
00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:20.000
(Erin)
they're still talking about the same stuff that still happening now. So that's like kind of
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:24.000
(Erin)
interesting to to be watching it, but, you know, the it just makes me. It
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:28.000
(Erin)
makes me very happy. I think we were watching Andy and I were watching suits before
00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:32.000
(Erin)
that. So that's, that was pretty good. Nothing current
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:36.000
(Erin)
yet. I want to go see the new Spider Verse movie, but that's about all I've got on my my
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah,
-
(Erin)
entertainment plate in that way for for the future.
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
for sure. I haven't seen it yet. My, I have a five-year-old, He and I just watched
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
the first one came out in 2018, or whatever, because I wanted
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
to see if he could handle it. I'm not sure. I'm not sure he's quite ready for the theater
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
experience of a movie yet. That might be a little intense.
00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Erin, if people want to, oh, I have my other
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
question. So I told someone I was someone who would have no way
-
(Erin)
He?
00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
of knowing who you were that I was interviewing you forgetting that. I'm geographically in
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Wisconsin The starting running back for the Green Bay. Packers
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
name is Erin Jones so I said, I'm interviewing Erin Jones and
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
they were like The Packer and I was like Oh
00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
no so I don't know if you have heard of Erin Jones the football player
00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
but you guys share a name just spelled differently.
-
(Erin)
I have
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:32.000
(Erin)
not heard of that but you know, that's cool. Like I'll be mistaken for a football player
00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:36.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, you'd be famous in Wisconsin and
-
(Erin)
like that could be pretty entertaining, I think.
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
maybe nowhere else but he's a celebrity here.
-
(Erin)
Word.
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So Erin, if people want to find out more about you, if
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
they were interested in working with you, in contacting you what do you got out there? How
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
do people find you?
-
(Erin)
Um well I kind of
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:56.000
(Erin)
tend to do most of my business word of mouth. So I
00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:00.000
(Erin)
don't have like a huge Internet presence but I can be found on psychology today or
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:04.000
(Erin)
you can just email me at Erin at Holistic Pathways.org.
00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:08.000
(Erin)
Yeah, that's pretty much like how how I
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:12.000
(Erin)
can be found. And you know if you
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:16.000
(Erin)
don't want to see me but want to do something good, you can donate to the Trevor project.
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah.
-
(Erin)
But yeah, that's a that's about it. I don't
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:24.000
(Erin)
really have a website. Maybe I'll do one of those like at some point within the next year. But I've been saying
00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:28.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Okay.
-
(Erin)
that for like I've been saying since I started and I
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:32.000
(Erin)
you know, I've been pretty much booked solid
00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:36.000
(Erin)
full from the get-go. And I don't see that changing as the
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:40.000
(Erin)
need for mental health services, like dramatically increases and more people need
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, for sure. I
-
(Erin)
therapy. So I'm fine. Fine hiding and
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Rather be out in the, in the woods.
-
(Erin)
not having the answer to any
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:52.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
I will, we will, of course, have those links in the show notes, for those of you who are
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:56.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
unfamiliar, hopefully, nobody is the Trevor project is a wonderful organization that works
00:57:56.000 --> 00:58:00.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
with lgbtq+ youth and they are a
-
(Erin)
Emails.
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:04.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
great person, a great group to donate to. So we'll have the link for them in the show
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:08.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
notes as well. I'm Jeremy. All my stuff is that wellness with
-
(Erin)
Yeah.
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:12.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Jeremy.com on my media and other stuff and the podcast is now up
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:16.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
on the website which took me longer than it should have for my own reasons.
00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:20.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
No, my media person is continues to be awesome and amazing.
-
(Erin)
He?
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:24.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
So Erin, thank you so much for joining today. This was fantastic.
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:28.000
(Erin)
Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Jeremy. This is really wonderful.
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:32.000
(Erin)
You're so lovely. And I just like, wish you like all of the success,
00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:36.000
(Erin)
it's like, it's It's really nice to to mean the like a
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:40.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Yeah, for sure.
-
(Erin)
like-minded soul on the other side of the country, right?
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:44.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
And to everybody out there listening, thanks for tuning in.
00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:48.000
(Jeremy Schumacher)
Once again, will we be, we will be back with another new episode next week. Take care, everyone.
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:49.000