Your Therapist Needs Therapy 26 - Deconstruction and Religious Trauma with Dr. Quincee Gideon

Jeremy has the chance to sit down with the tremendously talented Dr. Quincee Gideon this week. Jeremy and Dr. Quincee talk about deconstructing from evangelical fundamentalism, the potential overlap and misdiagnosis of ADHD and/or trauma, and the ongoing process of recovery from religious trauma. 

You can find more about Dr. Quincee and see her courses and free resources at her website, or give her a follow on Instagram.

You can find more info about Jeremy and his practice at Wellness with Jer, and give Jeremy a follow on YouTube and Instagram.

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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship. 

If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678. 

Transcript

Your Therapist Needs Therapy - Dr Quincee Gideon (2023-09-27 12:09 GMT-5) - Transcript

Attendees

Jeremy Schumacher, Quincee Gideon, PsyD

Transcript

This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.

Jeremy Schumacher: Hello and welcome to another edition of Your therapist Needs Therapy podcast. I'm your host, Jeremy Schumacher, licensed marriage and family therapist. Quincy Gideon,…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited for this conversation.

Jeremy Schumacher: Dr. Quincy thanks for coming on.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, me too. I've found your work. I think you trained one of my guests that I had on earlier.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: But running in religious trauma circles, I came across your Instagram and all that stuff. So I'm super excited about talking about drama and complex PTSD. And on that stuff, what I like to start with is kind of just a background on you. How did you get into the profession? What was kind of your entry point into working in the mental health field?

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I can't talk about my profession without talking about my own religious trauma. So I grew up in a really culty group and I can tell you all of those stories…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: and they are wild and lots of fun, little twists along the way. But most importantly for you to know, is that my group was really, really intent on evangelizing and that meant that they needed, lots of missionaries. They also don't like women. So as a woman who felt very compelled to do right by the church and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: by God, and by my community, my family missionary life was the life that felt available to me, it felt like I could be strong and courageous in that space when I wasn't necessarily able to

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Back home in the States. So I in college started working in, different sort of groups and organizations. And then eventually started my own nonprofit. It was a religious nonprofit. We did a lot of trauma work, which I had no business doing, I had no idea what I was doing, but I felt like I was,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: quote, saving people. And so, I lived in Africa, on and off for about 10 years. I was humbled over and over again, about the significance of trauma and how terrible I was an understanding human behavior trauma. And the way that it plays out for people, and so, I thought, I'm gonna do this missionary thing. So I should probably get some education.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I think I was probably in my master's program. When I was like, I'm gonna want a doctorate. Okay, so my education has been sort of long.

Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: It's been drawn out because I was going back and forth to Africa, but mostly I was sitting in counseling classes going, there are ways in which we can hold human suffering without praying blown away for those two, brain cells to touch and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: be like we can do something different than just hug and pray it away. And so I think in that process that's really kind of when my deconstruction started but I didn't know it.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I didn't know that I was deconstructing all of the stuff that I had learned about emotions being terrible and they're a sign, that God is not happy with you, or you're not in relationship with God. That trauma is God, punishing people I remember my church had a lot of feelings about Hurricane Katrina. Being sort of God's way of bringing a city back to him.

Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I mean this stuff is horrible to think about how awful but that was the water.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I was drinking every day and so then I was getting exposure to other things. I was in A really terrible marriage, but it was end quote ordained by that church.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: And when that fell apart, I think I really just came face to face with,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I followed all the rules. I was a really great missionary. I married, the man that I did the things that I was supposed to and it didn't actually save me and it doesn't save people from trauma and pain. And that's the main thesis, right? The church that I was growing up in and so that really kind of started my own personal work of, really, having to come to terms with the fact that I really wanted to be a therapist. It was a painful journey.

00:05:00

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and Listening just to that.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: yeah. yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Just having spiritual bypassing, flash it in my head as yep, that's all that. Is that seeing drama scene suffering and…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yes. Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: thinking? there's good that comes out of it or…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I know The things that I personally remember saying,…

Jeremy Schumacher: this is a test

Jeremy Schumacher: yeah.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: If I could go back to my lake 2008, Facebook status, that was prime. Indoctrinated, spiritual bypassing Quincy. It is so painful to see those things pop up on Facebook, memories, I'm like, my God, I said That's people, my God, I made that explanation. Gross, it's so cringe.

Jeremy Schumacher: so I grew up evangelical as well, so I think there's a lot of I don't know, quirks, maybe of this being raised when you have the pressure to be responsible for other people.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: literally, their eternal salvation is up to you and…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Totally.

Jeremy Schumacher: whether or not you reach them and so It's interesting. after Deacon, when I started my profession, I was still a progressive liberal Christian, but still a Christian and looking how I hold space for people is significantly different. There is that process of kind of letting go. Some of those toxic doctrines and teach and learning, like, A Human Experience. This is how trauma affects all of us, and this is how we can hold space for people and…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Mm-hmm

Jeremy Schumacher: help them heal. When For that journey.

Jeremy Schumacher: So I'm curious what was like your leap into education was that something?

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I remember sitting in.

Jeremy Schumacher: The church was supportive of was that just something for you personally where gathering education was important?

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I remember sitting in a little village in Congo and the organization that I was working with had to, sneak me into Congo because it was a close border at the time. And I remember sitting there and there was an entire village that had really been burned to the ground because the rebel army had come through and basically they steal all the children and they make them into child soldiers. It's horrid but mothers were in so much distress. and I remember sitting there and being embarrassed, That I thought that I could come in here and pray and make them feel better. it was a humbling moment, there was some mix of humility and

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: What the hell am I doing? who do? In that moment that I think pushed me into, I need help. I don't know what I'm doing. I need to figure out if I'm gonna continue this, I need to figure out what is trauma. How can I actually help people what programs do help instead of just coming in here and praying over people? And having kind of a church visual Is there something else that I can be doing? So, there was a very distinct moment. I would say that the church leaders were rather supportive of my education. I don't think they would have been except that I was a missionary right? And the education was all about doing better, mission work and it meant that I had an excuse to come back home.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Right, periodically. I wasn't constantly on the continent of Africa, so there was some mixture of that that I think just led to enthusiastic support, which I appreciated that, it gave me permission to do something that. I don't know that other women in my church necessarily felt like they had permission to do.

Jeremy Schumacher: So when you kind of went through that deconstruction phase, was that a soft landing for you knowing what? About trauma at that point or did this is complex PTSD. This is what it looks like. This is what religious trauma specifically looks like.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: No, I think that there's something really tricky that happens in fundamental, evangelical churches that I am intent on trying to change in my lifetime and that is the you poor pitiful other. You are the one that has trauma. We do not claim to suffer such things. Trauma is for the week. And so, even though I had a lot of education about drama, I don't actually think that I was in a place where I could see that. I was the sufferer of trauma that I had picked up a lot of trauma actually along the way, both in my religious setting, and living in war zones, in Africa and going,

00:10:00

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Through a really traumatic divorce like that. That was something that I felt. I still had all of the beliefs of the church, right. I had not attended to the fact that I had internalized that being traumatized was a sign that I had done something wrong. I had not yet deconstructed, And that had to be deconstructed before I could see myself in kind of the

Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Full view of being a trauma, survivor.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, for I think it's Somewhat spiritual bypassing and I think some of it is the weird hierarchical thinking that goes along with. Evangelical was where it's hard to. Acknowledge or experience some of these things in our body, because we've been taught, at…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: I was taught, your body is gonna lead you astray. And so, learning how and sit with that first and then being able to kind of experience it and then bring the intellect or bring the knowledge to it later. I went and got specific training in religious trauma after I was out now as an atheist to be This all makes sense but I need to look at it differently.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Absolutely. I think that the journey is not just deconstructing what you were taught but deciding and really paying attention to what you internalized, What did you make a personality? What did you decide was going to be Forgive the analogy…

Jeremy Schumacher: Right.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: but what was the hill that you were going to die on? And I had internalized a lot.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I had to internalize a lot of intensity and bifurcation. Things have to be one way or the other black and white thinking. I really had to attend to a lot of that, it was not just like, what, the concept of hell is quite abusive? And I don't think I want to believe in that anymore. I had to also address. What I had internalized about good and bad people and if humans were born good or if they were born bad and why I thought that it's more than just the concepts that you learn, it's about what you have internalized and how you sort of made that a part of your world view, your personality, the way that you conduct yourself, it's deep work.

Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, for sure, I talk about deconstruction is kind of the doctrinal approach to it the beliefs and then Conversion is like, What did you internalize? And that's a longer process to get that stuff out and…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Here, definitely.

Jeremy Schumacher: it pops up in weird ways or unexpected places.

Jeremy Schumacher: one of the things I was excited to talk to you about is you have your Psyd and…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: for those who are in, PhD is not always geared towards academia but often geared towards academia and psyde. Little bit more focused on practice and working with people directly. so you do psychological testing and…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: I'm curious, if you can speak a little bit. Unlike some of the overlaps between something like ADHD, And trauma or where? Aren't trained in trauma very well.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Totally in kids specifically trauma and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Misdiagnosed, some of those things.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: ADHD looks so alike that. I don't actually allow any of my practitioners to diagnose either until someone has been in treatment for at least four months. And I do that for a reason because I think that the symptoms look the same but one is neurological, it's a brain structure thing. It's genetic you sort of inherit it and it's nothing to be ashamed of. But certainly something you're going to have to work through and find ways to work through it. And trauma is a

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Big signal and beacon. That something is not right? And the adults in the situation need to pay attention, And so I don't want to get to diagnosis too soon because I want people to sit in that space and really try to figure out what is going on for these kids that are trying perhaps to signal to the rest of the world that they need some help. So for instance, we know that there's a lot of anger that can show up in children with ADHD, that makes sense. They're super frustrated, they didn't get all of the instructions because they couldn't pay attention long enough. The adults in their life are frustrated with them and giving them feedback about that, their friends are maybe calling them weird. They can't seem to sit still and they get a lot of feedback around that that makes sense. that kid would be pretty angry and annoyed with both themselves. But also, the world that's not made for them. That makes sense. When you have a traumatized kid, you would also see anger. There's something that has gone.

00:15:00

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: They're walking around the world. Sort of feeling like and do to myself? did this happen? Why am I not safe? They're mad that they're having the feelings that They're mad that they're distracted, because that's what happens in trauma, Is that we have a hard time, thinking of other things, we have a hard time staying present, we dissociate a lot. which it is this kid angry because he's got some ADHD things going on or is this kid, angry, because he's been traumat. And so I think when those things go on, I want people to just be careful before they give those labels because we need to be paying attention to what they're actually saying.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and I love that approach and I love that kind of a blanket of we can't diagnose this too early because I think that's one of the things that happens. I especially work The Eric with a lot of adults who are neurodivergent and didn't get diagnosed as kids…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: because they learn to effectively. And so then pulling on that, threat as an adult where it's like, you Had some things happen in your life and you're also neurodivergent and What does that look like?

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Right.

Jeremy Schumacher: Because you managed it some way throughout your childhood? But It was an adult. So Really tricky. I think a lot of people Don't get the right diagnosis and they get the process of therapy or getting help becomes very off-putting.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Totally.

Jeremy Schumacher: They're not getting help that make sense for them.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Right.

Jeremy Schumacher: Working with trauma.

Jeremy Schumacher: Doing Entr. But what are some of the things that you see working with people who have religious trauma? What are common things that you're looking for as a practitioner or what are common things that people are presenting with? in that process like, religious drama, here's what we need to do. Do most or let me rephrase that I guess do. Most people come in knowing that they have religious trauma

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I would say in my practice, There's a really good mix. I would say that a lot of folks come in and they're not quite sure why they were compelled or why they really liked our website or why they really liked one of the therapist needs.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Because the body keeps the score and is maybe managing some of these things behind the curtain. we do sort of unravel like yeah yeah and This was a tough culty environment, there was lots going on and we need to do some significant work around that and then I would say the other half come in and they're like, let me tell you about this culty school that I was sent to because I was neurodivergent and everyone thought that I was just a pain in the ass. And so let me tell you about all of the things that they did and it was a school that was run by sin and on and they know but they haven't necessarily come in contact with Practition.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: That are like, Boy, do I have your back? I know exactly…

Jeremy Schumacher: Right.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: what this is. I've worked with other survivors that were in that situation. I'm well aware of the cultiv dynamics that went on. There allow me to just sort of sit with you and maybe got help you in this guide the process. So, I would say it's a mixed bag to your question around, what I see specifically in religious trauma and cult survivors. There's usually some huge identity issue. Who am I and How can I start to reclaim some of that or How can I understand to myself? If I don't have this really religious or rigid kind of list of things that I be? How do I reimagine myself in relationships? How am I going to be a parent if I am no longer a part of this, really rigid rule system? So there's

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Some Big Question of Identity. There's also some big delay in some area of development. If they grew up in purity culture, they have some big delays in sexual development. They don't know what the hell, their body is doing and it what it does. And they're super ashamed of it. And, what do I do about that? If they grew up and really rigid church groups or cult groups, they may have some significant relational development which means that they don't know how to relate to people. They don't know how to let people close. They don't know how to manage some of their emotions, or maybe the normal angry upset things that might happen in relationship, but there's typically, some type of delay and that's only because they've been deprived of normal developmental.

00:20:00

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Tasks, so that they can develop the skills to get over that or to work through that or to decide who they're going to be in the world. And then I would say the next thing that I look for is a significant amount of guilt and shame. I've never met a religious trauma survivor that does not walk around with significant guilty or shame. It's like, the cloak that they wear. It's like the T-shirt that they wear, and it covers all of their other emotions in a way that prevents them from knowing themselves,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: and it's really distressing for them. They know it's not quite right, but they don't know how to not feel guilt.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and if I'm some religious groups like Catholics, I was raised Evangelical Lutheran and…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: so we talked about that Lutheran guilt even when I was in Which it was an acknowledged and kind of joke out thing of Yeah, you have that guilt all the time.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Mm-hmm

Jeremy Schumacher: Which is a weird normalizing tactic. They used to keep people from real highs and how unhealthy that is

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Totally. Yeah, it's all functional. That's the point. You got to know that everything that is taught in any sort of institution is working towards the end, goal of the institution. So feelings, keep people active in a way where they're challenging leadership. They may be leave and don't give their money. There's all kinds of ways in which the institution has an end goal and so everything that the institution is doing is going to be to the end of that goal. That's it. You have to know that in any organization, it doesn't matter. If that's a private practice that you're working for the school that you attend, every institution has a goal and they're going to make rules to get to that animal.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I talk about organized religion as social control. it's an organization that is designed to control certain group of people About group dynamics and then to control the behavior of the group.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: so sorry, I didn't A statement.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: No, I think I'm just catching up on good.

Jeremy Schumacher: A little bit. what?

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I know we have a little bit of leg.

Jeremy Schumacher: I've been nodding so aggressively for everything. You've been saying because it's like yep. Yep, yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: It's a podcast. No one can starting. What's your journey as a therapist? Maybe still doing some work around your own. Grain or things pop up for you. What are you kind of do to navigate being in this space? As a professional while taking care of yourself, not just through self. Cultivating joy and things like that. What's kind of your process for what's going on for you personally?

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I First of all, practice a lot of freedom in that that's one thing that my church did not allow me to do. And so in my life now of treating trauma and addressing religious trauma, I really am looking for freedom. So maybe that's the freedom to do something that I wouldn't normally do. it's not really. Part of my normal concept of how I take care of myself. But damn it feels good today and so let's go do that. I give myself a lot of freedom to change my schedule if I need to literally not doing that this evening. I don't want a lot of freedom to say out loud. To my family that I live with what is going on. So I am not sharing details but immediately when I come out of my office, I might say,

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Lots going on today in the world and, I'll just sort of say it out loud and I find that literally just the practice of freedom of doing what feels good and that moment is really, really helpful. For me, I also throw everything at it. So if I'm going to recommend that, my clients do a certain type of treatment then I probably need to be willing to do the same and so I have gone through EMDR Before I became an EMDR practitioner. I went through ketamine, assisted psychotherapy, before I became academy, assisted psychotherapist. I am doing the things that I'm recommending to my clients and half the time. It means that I'm actively in the process of healing. Both, what I am listening to every week that can be super discouraging and super scary to think about

00:25:00

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Send churches behaving in the ways that they do but I'm also dealing with some of the past stuff kind of at the same time. So every time I think that there's a new good idea for anyone at my practice to start practicing. I'm gonna do it first and it's just been a really nice practice for me to get into years ago, when I opened up my private practice and it's been one that I continue and encourage all of my therapist.

Jeremy Schumacher: Can you talk a little bit about? The Journey to Opening your own private practice. It's an agencies for years and different settings, and it took me a while to get to that point of opening my own place. And I needed a really terrible boss and needed to Lawyer in order to get paid and all that the nightmare stuff of agency work to be like,…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Mmm.

Jeremy Schumacher: I could do this myself and I could do it. Ethically, and in a way that's congruent. What was your experience and kind of setting up Place and running it the way that you wanted to.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I do have a bit of an entrepreneur spirit, I don't think that there's a lot of 18 year olds that are starting nonprofits, so that they can run their own mission agency and not have to deal with other people's rules. So, maybe there's a little of that kind of cooked in, but I was working at a jail. And downtown LA. And that jail is the biggest mental health treatment facility in the world and it is a jail. So maybe just take that for a second. That's really scary for us to think about but I was a psychologist that was working in a really intensive unit inside of the county jail in LA.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: And so I was getting up at 4 o'clock in the morning.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Getting to the jail by five working until three. And I mean, I was trotting around that jail trying to see all the patients, that I needed to see and evaluate going to court advocating for them, trying to figure out who needed a conservatorship and who didn't and all the paperwork that's involved in that. And then I would practically run down those stairs, get out of the jail, get to my car, which was half a mile away and race to my private practice and I would see patients until 9:00 at night. And in the midst of that I knew that I couldn't give up the private practice because the suffering, the pain, the deep mental illness that institutional abuse that I was seeing in the jail.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Was not going to leave me in a great space with how I approached humanity. It was going to jade me and I knew that and so I had to keep the private practice but the private practice wasn't making enough that I could support myself in Los Angeles,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: California, which is no small feat for a single gal. And so I had to stay at the jail for all of the benefits and the study paycheck, and all of that good stuff. And so, I think I just did that knowing that burnout was gonna come. If I didn't try to make a decision and in that space, I think I was able to do what I needed to do, get through the nitty gritty of it and then eventually I moved into

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Private practice which was super scary. I mean it was absolutely frightening because you don't know you don't no one tells you in private practice that people take some time off, usually every July, sometimes August and then December, and so that you actually need to save money because your case load is gonna drop during those times. No one told me that stuff, so there was lots of learning curves, but I did think that I needed two things, I needed to remember, the goodness and humanity, and I know that that feels like an oxymoron as a trauma therapist.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: So upsetting to hear, I get to sit vigil with them and I get to be let in to places that they don't let other people into and there is such a tenderness and that space that I just feel like I'm the luckiest woman in the world that I get to do that. So that's a huge need of mine and I'm able to do that and the other need that I had was to create or curate, a practice that honored, both patients and then clinicians those that are kind of in The trenches with their clients. And so, I feel like we've been able to do that boy are there.

Jeremy Schumacher: but,

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Lots of learning curves the first year that you get that big tax bill and you were like, what?

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I thought I was paying taxes on payroll. You are but you also have other ones do and …

00:30:00

Jeremy Schumacher: Yep.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: the first time that I needed to consult with an attorney and That's great that will be twelve hundred dollars an hour and I was like, What about an email Is there a discount for an email? So there's just lots of things that you learn along the way that no one tells you about,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: but it's been the delight of my career. I've really, really loved every bit of it.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and I think that's a theme with Guess that I've masters or grad programs or postgrad programs, the business of running a practice. And so I try and always ask about that process because I think for a lot of people Get into that point where you have a private practice, that's ruined with your belief system and you're seeing the clients you want to work with. And it's just such a lovely experience. There are a lot of learning curves and there is some fear Around that. When you have that holiday slump or, having to set a fee or raise a fee and kind of navigate those things are scary. But it's also so good for As a practitioner, to be able to practice in a way that congruent with your belief system.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: What's the joy? What are you doing? That's not Necessarily therapy related or is your recreation time,…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: No, no,…

Jeremy Schumacher: reading therapy books.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I do. I am an avid reader but I only read fiction books. I will listen to other books. when I'm on my walk or whenever I'm taking kids to school or whatever, but, If it's leisure time I am in a fiction, book neck deep and getting lost in that. So, that's really lovely, I love reading. But my partner and I, my family.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: We'd love to convert bands for people, that, live off grid and make these little vans, their home. That's one of the fun things that we get to do.

Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: We have a couple that we, rent out to people, because they want to live that life. They're not quite sure that they're ready to dive in. So, That's the most delightful process. It's like trying to figure out how you're gonna convert the van, how you're gonna configure it, where you're gonna put the water lines and, wait, what if we did this or there's a new heater out there on the market that doesn't take as much fuel. it's a fun part of life that I get to use it. Totally different part of my brain for

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, for sure, that's awesome. I love those outlets where it's problem, Sol, it's a bunch of skills you use in therapy but it's such a different context that it doesn't kind of trigger that therapy.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: If totally. Totally.

Jeremy Schumacher: Your brain.

Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, I coaching sports was always that for me it's the same,…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: 

Jeremy Schumacher: it's the same exact skill set as therapy, but To practice or the way that I can coach during a game is not at all what I do in the therapy office. So even though they're similar skill sets, it looks a lot different.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I love that. I grew up in a family of coaches, so,

Jeremy Schumacher: Up changing gears.

Jeremy Schumacher: Changing gears a little bit. Again, I know. And you get a lot of feedback on. Hey did you see this documentary? Hey can you comment on? I think one of the things with your forensic background was the Johnny Depp Amber heard trial, How do you kind of Check in with yourself and…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: honor, your own boundaries around, social media, and pop culture, Much of it is trauma stuff for every other week it seems there's a new documentary on church trauma or the Boy Scouts or whatever organize a group has abuse scandals coming out How do you kind of check in with that so you're aware of it without, maybe letting it take up too much of that recreation time or…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I really like documentaries I really like them.

Jeremy Schumacher: that. Space away from therapy.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: That's one of the things that I think is super validating of the work that I do so I'm probably getting some needs met there. I also think that they are deeply.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Inspirational to me because I can watch a documentary and I'm on my phone in I can make a post about this, that would be so helpful for people to know about or I talked about this all the time, but it never occurred to me that people don't know that concept, like that, if they're super inspirational. So, actually feel like I get a lot of things done. Kind of all at one time, when watching documentaries, I'm not in front of a computer, I'm laid out on a couch. You're on my bed. and I don't have to be in any state. I don't have to feel the pressure to respond, but the content is so helpful for me that I'm not actually having to engage much on social media to try to find things that people need to know about, which is what we do as content creators on social. That's actually the worst part of the job for me. I don't love having to scour social media to find inspiration. So I actually really love documentaries for

00:35:00

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Reason is that I get to just sort of like it does a lot in a very short amount of time for me I can make months of content just based on watching the Boy Scout documentary. So That'll be coming to you soon like, going on, kind of in those moments.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: So That's a lot of needs.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Fine and it doesn't feel stressful but I've already mentioned that content creation can feel kind of stressful. Making sure that you're not making too big, a promises that you're kind of staying in your ethical lane that you are calling out folks. But also maybe inviting other folks into a conversation that they haven't had before it's a tender line and I don't think that anyone can walk it perfectly, so I've sort of let that go. but I do think that some, really clear boundaries have been helpful to me, first of all, I never give advice. So that's super helpful for me in the ways that I, sort of engage in social media. If you send me a DM and you're like, What shall I do about this? I will immediately refer you to. Whoever is in your state, That's a religious trauma expert. So, that's really helpful. And nor will I ever disclose my current personal beliefs? Because what the hell does it matter?

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: It matters that there are abuses going on that.

Jeremy Schumacher: Sorry.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I'm calling out. It matters that there is space for everyone to say this happened and I still believe and this happened. And I don't believe everyone has a space at the table. And when my information gets added into that, as if I've got the market cornered on, what you shall do right after some sort of abuse like this.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: I think the conversation changes in a way that makes me really uncomfortable, so I had that boundary kind of from the jump and I think since then that has set me up to feel really great about the ways that I engage. But as soon as I feel like, I'm kind of getting badgered to where do you stand on this or What do you believe about this? I step away from it for a little while, and that's just a boundary that I've set, but it works really well for me and it kind of keeps my brain and a space where when I actually do log in to social media, I find a lot of joy there. I find a lot of connections there. There's a few assholes, Lord, help us, but whatever. So we're there in the grocery store I can live with it.

Jeremy Schumacher: Really. Yeah, I love those boundaries and I think that's super helpful. I think as a small business owner, when you run your own practice like that, marketing and social media, and all that stuff is tough. And so having those boundaries from the jump is super helpful and I love professionals, have been in the field for a little bit longer sharing. how they navigate that because I think that helps the younger therapist.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Navigate kind of a questionable Again, a thing most of us aren't being taught about in our grad programs.

Jeremy Schumacher: Dr. Quincy this has been great.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Okay.

Jeremy Schumacher: I strongly recommend. We'll have your instagram in the show notes but you put out so much good content. Your website has a different courses and things that people can sign up for in addition to all the therapy offerings, anything that you want to promote or places, where people can find you.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: 

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Definitely on Instagram.

Jeremy Schumacher: If they want to connect.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: That's where I play. Most of the time I would say that we have sort of a course space that you can come. It's called trauma story. It's like monastery, but for trauma. See what we did there. And Thomas Areas…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yep.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: where we have.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Memberships specifically for religious trauma survivors. And I would say that that is the community that I am. The most proud of the way in which I was in the comments earlier today. Inside the course of people asking questions and other students supporting and giving their tidbits has just been so delightful to see. It was exactly what I needed years ago when I was going through my process. And I did not create the goodness, all of the survivors that are in that group are creating the goodness. So I'd love for people to come and be a part of that if that feels like the place that they're in and their journey,

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, yeah, for And we'll add those links into the show notes. Again I like to always tell people Follow on Instagram.

00:40:00

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Follow good people on Instagram…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Totally.

Jeremy Schumacher: because there's so much misinformation and bad information on social media, if you can find Experts or people who are qualified to comment on some of these complex topics definitely worth a follow. So this has been fantastic.

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: Yeah. It's been my pleasure,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Thanks for giving some time and sharing your experience and…

Quincee Gideon, PsyD: thanks for having me.

Jeremy Schumacher: your knowledge with people.

Jeremy Schumacher: And to all our listeners out there, thanks for tuning in again. We'll be back next week with another new episode. Take care, everyone.

Meeting ended after 00:40:34 👋