Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Everyone needs help with their mental health, even mental health professionals. Join us as we have your therapist take a seat on the couch to talk about their own mental health journey!
Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Your Therapist Needs Therapy 73 - Social Media Madness with Emily Vander Velden
This week Jeremy welcomes back Emily Vander Velden to discuss social media and its impact on mental health. They explore the pros and cons of social media, noting how it can provide community support, especially for marginalized groups, but also amplify harmful content like body dysmorphia or misinformation. Both Jeremy and Emily reflect on the balance between using social media responsibly while acknowledging its dangers and its role within larger societal systems.
Emily has launched her own private practice since her last episode, and you can find all her info at renewedfocuswi.com. Emily hilariously does not have social media to follow, the irony of recording this episode with her is not lost on any of us.
Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube.
Head over to Patreon to support the show, or you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well!
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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.
If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.
Attendees
Emily Vander Velden, Jeremy Schumacher
Transcript
Jeremy Schumacher: Hello and Welcome to another edition of your therapist needs therapy. The podcast, were two mental health professionals. Talk about their mental health journeys, and how they navigate mental wellness, while working in the mental health field. I'm your host Jeremy Schumacher at licensed marriage and family, therapist to support the show. Head over to Patreon.com/wellness with Jeremy Mental Health, Professional not a podcast, professional. So, any little support helps. Today, I'm back with another This is my second Two-time guests As many episodes. I am joined today by Emily Vander Velden of renewed focus. I don't think you had launched. Last time, I had you on, It was in the works, but it wasn't a done deal.
Emily Vander Velden: Yep. It's under the radar yet.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, so we have a topic in mind but let's start there with House opening your own practice been.
Emily Vander Velden:
Emily Vander Velden: A learning curve. And also, I haven't hated it, if that makes sense. the learning curve itself has been intellectually stimulating, lots of good, puzzles to solve. so, I…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: I love being able to tailor exactly. what makes my practice unique, and it Is,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: it's a lot of ideas so I think it's been going really well.
Jeremy Schumacher: Welcome to the.
Emily Vander Velden: I appreciate you.
Jeremy Schumacher: The private Practice party.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, You're one of my mentors Jeremy,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: you're like? I did it.
Jeremy Schumacher: I am proud of you for doing it. I take very little credit for being a mentor, that sounds Old of me.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, we're old.
Jeremy Schumacher: aged Millennials here. Before we show our age even more.
Jeremy Schumacher: We're talking about social media today,…
Emily Vander Velden: Seriously.
Jeremy Schumacher: two things that We as mid thirties.
Jeremy Schumacher: Millennials have thoughts on.
Emily Vander Velden: We are uniquely poised in our own experiences of maybe growing up where there wasn't social media. Into. a whole new reality…
Jeremy Schumacher: Mmm.
Emily Vander Velden: where They're just basically a part of the water we're swimming in. So
Jeremy Schumacher: I had a OG Facebook account when it was just for people at Harvard or Yale or wherever Zuckerberg was Harvard. I think But…
Emily Vander Velden: Really.
Jeremy Schumacher: then it was just for people with edu email addresses, just for college students.
Emily Vander Velden: Exactly right.
Jeremy Schumacher: So that's when I got it.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, probably. 2017 2008.
Jeremy Schumacher: Because we're I got it because I was playing volleyball at Minnesota and that is how we communicated things was Facebook and to It's just your college students at that time.
Emily Vander Velden: Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, did you have a MySpace?
Emily Vander Velden: The Glory Days of Facebook.
Jeremy Schumacher: Let's go back. Even further.
Emily Vander Velden: I think I did. I don't know that I was too engaged with it. I had a virtual diary and I cannot remember what it's called. But I really liked my virtual diary, it's basically the beginning blogs.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. For Yeah, I think I had a MySpace…
Emily Vander Velden: Probably freshman sophomore year had.
Jeremy Schumacher: but also didn't engage with it. I was on Instant Messenger all of the time. That's how my wife and I
Jeremy Schumacher: Not that we got married straight from there, but we connected a lot. Through aim, back in the day when we were high schoolers dating and didn't know anything.
Emily Vander Velden: I love that. my gosh aim I miss aim was fantastic. It was free.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. It was free, I'm sure it was very cringy. I mean, changing your text and background colors and song quotes
Emily Vander Velden: Mm- Okay.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: What was your screen name for aim?
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't remember, it might have been Velcro My last name Schumacher. So shoe with Schu.
Emily Vander Velden:
Jeremy Schumacher: I was using awesome shoe a lot back in the day, too. I don't know what might be out on the Internet from my teenage self.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, right.
Jeremy Schumacher: So I don't want to dock myself. But yeah, that was a thing. So I'm not sure at which point in my life, I was and what I was using
Emily Vander Velden: Got it. Okay, that's fair.
Jeremy Schumacher: The adult version of that is picking the name of your business.
Emily Vander Velden: It Absolutely. I use a name generator for my screen name and totally used. The equivalent of that to help me figure out what name I liked for my business.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, we like to pretend like we've grown up so much…
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: but it's just the same thing.
Emily Vander Velden: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean I think so. This is interesting The last time was really really in social media world with Facebook actually using it was 2015
00:05:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure, probably a good time to get off of it. Yeah, the only question we were talking before I hit record I didn't put any thought or…
Emily Vander Velden: this about me.
Jeremy Schumacher: effort into this, he just said Let's do episode on social media and I was Great. Let's do. It was the fact that you're not on Instagram. How are we doing this episode about social media?
Emily Vander Velden: I mean it was brought up about the fact that you and I had been talking about it on the Milwaukee podcast, that you…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yep.
Emily Vander Velden: as it relates to messaging about mental health, but also a lot of things that can come up in adolescence like self-harm suicidal, ideation eating disorders, body dysmorphia How that can? Be algorithms can go in the wrong direction and amplify those issues and it seems like.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: Okay, so we're working with social media in the sense that it's kind of mimics reality where there's Strengths and weaknesses.
Emily Vander Velden: And in many ways, in my opinion. Gen Z was almost like a experimental generation when it came to. Technology. And now we're seeing the outcome of that. And as that's happening, there's more talk about legislation to kind of provide some more structure. And boundaries within that space, I don't know. I feel like it's super rich for topics could go on and on.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, yeah. I think Gosh,…
Emily Vander Velden: Food. You got it?
Jeremy Schumacher: we can get conspiratorial about government overreach.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, it's there too.
Jeremy Schumacher: but yeah, I mean we weren't technology natives, I remember probably 1994 or 1995 where the Internet sort of became Ubiquitous to not just Super Techy people. I remember going from no computer in our house to a computer. I remember going from no Internet on that computer to having an Internet so that lived experience. So I'd say, Millennials. Grew up in those changes of technology. But we weren't born where they always existed in the way that Gen Z is growing up, where technology is just always been there.
Emily Vander Velden: My kiddos sums my seven and a half year old. She's like, Mom I cannot believe that you grew up without a tablet that must have been so hard.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, it was for our little ADHD brains.
Emily Vander Velden: Man.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yes.
Emily Vander Velden: Jeremy,…
Jeremy Schumacher: We played outside more.
Emily Vander Velden: I'm here.
Jeremy Schumacher: That sounds so old, I feel so old saying that.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, and we also had more opportunities for distress tolerance. We had more opportunities to learn how to use creativity and imagination when we were bored.
Jeremy Schumacher: We also started smoking cigarettes,…
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: when we were nine, so I don't know, I try not to have too big of rose colored glasses about the past.
Emily Vander Velden: I know, right? Absolutely absolutely.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: What is your takeaway? I'm curious when you're with clients and you think about social media, how do you bring that into the room clinically
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I think it mean obvious therapy answer here is case basis. Obviously depending on what they're talking about it with when I worked in higher Ed and I was working just with college athletes. for the most part 18 to 22 year old athletes hockey players are older, that's a whole separate topic so some 22 to 28 year olds some older students too. But college age students, social media was ubiquitous and was a big deal and it was stressful and dramatic and they had fights with friends and they broke up and they were on tinder and You said earlier it's the water we swim in it was such a thing that They didn't think twice about it. They would send me their tiktoks that they wanted to talk about in our sessions,
Jeremy Schumacher: So, I think that that experience shaped a lot. I'm also a marriage therapist When I've been in the field, long enough, when Facebook wasn't just for college students, it opened up for everyone. How many affairs? Were started,…
Emily Vander Velden: Mmm.
Jeremy Schumacher: whether actual affairs or emotional affairs or whatever, how many people are reconnected with their old, high school, sweetheart on Facebook, behind their partners back. And, I hated Facebook. I got rid of mine for a while, as a therapist just because of how brutal it was as a marriage therapist. When Facebook opened up to everyone, because it started so many affairs.
00:10:00
Jeremy Schumacher: So, yeah, I think personally I've always had a distaste for it. I try not to let that color when it comes up, but I would say a lot of folks. it's how do we people are coming in fast. People are coming in, asking about reconnecting with nature. I mean, there's a lot of vibe that I give off where that's a safe and appropriate topic I'm pretty openly a nature person a neurodivergent in that way. So I think people know they can talk about that stuff with me but I try not to be pushy because I am aware that I have my own bias about it.
Emily Vander Velden: What would be the other thing? So you have your own bias about social media specifically What would be the counter argument to taking a break engaging with nature?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yep.
Emily Vander Velden: What is the argument for that? Alternative.
Jeremy Schumacher: I see for again I'll go back to one as we're going to college students. for people, I was working at a Christian college. At the time, I was in the midst of my own deconstruction, but hadn't left the church yet.
Jeremy Schumacher: So, for, a lot of the athletes that I was working with, they were part of the lgbtq+ community. I was a safe person on campus but they could not be out for a lot of reasons. And social media was very important for them for feeling connected to a community, having safe spaces to talk to minded folks. People who had similar experiences kids at the college that we were at kids at other colleges who were living through similar experiences. Older people who had lived through and gotten through and survives being at a Christian campus when you're lgbtq+. So from a community building perspective, I think very highly of social media. for I imagine that Midwestern queer kid, who isn't comfortable being out because of their family. Belief systems that social media is a lifesaver. And I think
Jeremy Schumacher: That's very important, I think for people who might not have access in real life, in their personal geography, vicinity community building through social media is super important.
Emily Vander Velden: Yep.
Emily Vander Velden: Uh-huh.
Jeremy Schumacher: I think that's most of where I end the good of such.
Emily Vander Velden: I really love that. I agree. and also, I found there's really powerful commute community, at the base, the community of people, teenage girls who find mentors online, on tiktok who are talking about their recovery, From. Disordered eating and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: body dysmorphia. I mean, that's so powerful.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, I think some of the globalization but again that's community building in my opinion but seeing a genocide happen in real time is really bad for our nervous systems, but also
Emily Vander Velden: Right.
Jeremy Schumacher: In mass humanity. Speaking out against these things as much easier so where we get into government overreach and stuff like that, but the way for people to build community through the Internet has changed. The power dynamics of a lot of structures like I work with religious trauma. So looking at the mass exodus of people leaving the church is because the church cannot limit people's access to information like it used to
Emily Vander Velden: it tries, I mean, I think, to some extent
Jeremy Schumacher: It's done it for millennia. It doesn't know what else to do. So, yeah, so I think that stuff is good. Again, if you're part of a marginalized community, the Internet may often be A life source community that you don't otherwise have access to and normalizing talk about mental health, I think Gen Z Millennials to a degree gen Z. Even more normalized to talk about mental health, being open about that stuff. It just all things can go too far. there's suicide talk on tiktok where people post about wanting to die and what their suicide plans are and some of that stuff. That's really unhelpful and unhealthy and Whatever. Moderation is supposed to be happening to limit that stuff. Gets misapplied to helpful.
Emily Vander Velden: He? Absolutely.
Emily Vander Velden: How do we? Work with that, I think what we're saying is that maybe the good is there? Maybe it's not as with anything we're going to be more inclined to see the danger because we have to be well,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: I appreciate being able to identify the positives and then also figure out With anything what sort of structures or boundaries do we individually need to manage social media? How do we developmentally apply that as parents? As adults.
00:15:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: And really, how do we distinguish reality at this point? Specially with how technology is going with AI. And I just saw kittens with,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: dress up as soldiers. They were very cute and very realistic looking and it was AI Jeremy, it was wild.
Jeremy Schumacher: I mean. We can edit this out on the back end if we need to but your partner works in tech spaces.
Emily Vander Velden: Mm-hmm
Jeremy Schumacher: And so, I think you have perhaps an even more unique perspective knowing and getting some of the I don't know how much he talks about his work. But some of the inside scoop of I don't know, cybersecurity is that okay term to use?
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, yeah. I mean He doesn't talk about it much and partially because
Emily Vander Velden: We have a general rule in our life that we don't talk about work and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: that's actually pretty nice, It's not really we don't talk about it but he will tell me things that make me want to live in a cave. Under a rock. That's what I hear. I think it's heavy to work in that space. Because his job is to identify threat and mitigate risk. So he's always having a threat mindset and there are so many ongoing threats.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: Happening at all times, it's terrifying.
Jeremy Schumacher: there's a weird like I would say, nihilism a lot of us have At some point I just stopped worrying about my passwords and was like, Please Google memorize, all of them for me because I can't keep track like I'm ADHD. This is convenient and also being like I hate this that a global corporation has access to all of the time but also I can't remember my password. So there's some weird acceptance, I think a lot of us have about I don't know if somebody wants to get my bank account they probably can I don't please don't there's no money in it. So I mean have at it I guess. But also Yeah,…
Emily Vander Velden: People that speed.
Jeremy Schumacher: if you want to see how little therapists make but also I don't know. There's just Helplessness is the right I said, nihilism, I guess that's what I'm gonna stand with of, Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Jeremy Schumacher: Google could probably hack into my bank account even though those passwords aren't linked. Sure.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, absolutely absolutely. Yeah. That's no problem, it is the presence of Since day one,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: we have never posted our kids pictures on social media. Not since day one.
Emily Vander Velden: Out of respect for their own autonomy, in a way you and I we got to decide when we would make our presence known on the worldwide web. And we've just decided as parents to preserve that for them.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: so, they decide when we will decide together but it will be a conversation with them. When they want to be online when they want their likeness to be online.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: And we don't have any of the Google Dot. Is that a Google dot? Or an Amazon Alexa or anything like that, in our house.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah, the smart home stuff that's super creepy. And I always listening
Emily Vander Velden: Right. Because my partner is never…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: though here everything. I don't want them in my home and it's Like you…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: for me, it's more of like They know where I am at all times anyway, because I've got my phone.
Jeremy Schumacher: There's a satellite GPS tracker in my phone This is a left turn a little bit like the pandemic was really weird for the fears that some of the conspiracy theories took advantage of people's fears around the stuff to be like no one's tracking. You through a vaccine because you have your phone, you're posting your nonsense on Facebook. They already know where you are. What are we doing here, gay? but I do think there is some of that,…
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: loose awareness conspiracy theories, that stick are the ones that are Sort of adjacent to reality. there is this fear of being tracked, there is this fear of We don't really have. Individual independence and any level anymore.
Jeremy Schumacher: Because of technology so I think it played on that fear, it got stupid really fast but that's what conspiracy theories do. But, playing on that fear of being tracked of someone, Shadow government the NSA whatever always knowing where we are. there's probably some reality that anyway.
00:20:00
Emily Vander Velden: As you were talking, what came to mind for me? Is The impact that social media has on our brain of confirmation bias. And like you said, grabbing one little nugget, right? one component, one dimension of something and then almost again amplifying it and what I think social media does is it reinforces emotional reasoning, which is a cognitive distortion And it almost balloons that out and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Right.
Emily Vander Velden: extrapolates that over and over again. And that, the water we're swimming in. Now is taking advantage, the powers that take advantage. Of this distorted reality,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: that social media perpetuates.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I mean when the research came out finally on looking at covid misinformation, 90% of it got started by the same five people. None of them doctors or vaccine experts. Just like Aunt Karen and the UK so, From an oversight perspective or regulation perspective. I think some of that stuff could be interesting but There's no way that for-profit capitalistic groups are doing this with humanities best interests in mind. Yeah. and…
Emily Vander Velden: Right. Absolutely. I was
Jeremy Schumacher: the algorithms, that feedback loop that happens is it's very easy to get siled and your information very quickly even just
Jeremy Schumacher: I joke with my brother, he'll send me stuff on Tiktok and I don't go on tiktok unless my brother sends me something and I'm like, dude, you're messing up my algorithm and I don't even use this social media Just some of that connection and what gets recommended to you then is all very creepy. I like to really inappropriate things around people who have their phones open so that they start getting targeted ads for whatever awful thing. I just said because our phones are Tracking that stuff. Facebook can try and say it's about proximity and Google searches or whatever. But Nah, they're listening. The tech people all have tape over their cameras because they don't trust that When they say they're off
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, for We're just products at this point. We've always kind of been products, right? In different ways.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, our attention.
Emily Vander Velden: My partner always says If it's free, then you're the product.
Jeremy Schumacher: Except for this podcast of which I track zero data because I don't know how any of it works. But I'm sure apple music or whatever you're listening is tracking your stuff. It's just not me.
Emily Vander Velden: So the question is ethically, if you did know how to do it, would you do it?
Jeremy Schumacher: I like the data, I'm a psychology I like data and research but no I can't keep up with At this stage of my life. I can't keep up with ethically opposed. But yeah, I don't know. Does the nihilism again? my only response is to shrug at it? I mean, yeah, I don't know. What are they gonna do with it?
Emily Vander Velden: And that is perhaps one of those. Laws of the universe, right? That
Emily Vander Velden: The current system we operate in creates a vacuum for unethical people. To take advantage. Of opportunities of power.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah,…
Emily Vander Velden: Everyone else is.
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't think being wealthy is ethical.
Emily Vander Velden: You have to define wealth. I'm curious how you would define wealth.
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't know. Mega yacht owner.
Emily Vander Velden: Okay, so like ultra wealth, like billionaire level.
Jeremy Schumacher: The one percent.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. I'm not opposed to people owning a home or having a retirement place or, what sure Absolutely,…
Emily Vander Velden: Mmm.
Jeremy Schumacher: we have to pay our bills. I hate capitalism and also was born into it. Kind of got a do…
Emily Vander Velden: Right.
Jeremy Schumacher: what you can with it. But to be at that level of wealth, there's no ethical way to do that.
Emily Vander Velden: And so, it's really an interesting moment, perhaps her social media right now, because there is bipartisan legislation introduced Oversight committees about, how many people have so much power over? Entire countries and populations. And you…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: at what point do lobbyists stop working for Silicon Valley so that they can actually make so that we can have some actual legislation to put in safeguards, At one point and…
00:25:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: I heard I have to give this credit too. I was listening to a podcast. Hillary Clinton has a book that's coming up. Which sounds Very promising. But in it she talks about how back in the 90s. There was legislation to actually really open up and decrease regulation in the text from the capitalistic perspective, Let's foster growth. Let's get ahead. Let's do all of this. and then, she's advocating to pull that back at this point and part of that, is that She used this great example of how there was a time when we had horses and buggies and we need a different laws to navigate horses and buggies. And when the first cars came around, There were no stop signs because they weren't necessary. But over time we learn what we need to be a safe community and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: we create those laws and I just think that's such a really astute parallel to social media.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I'm skeptical about the Clinton track record for deregulation since that was Part of what led to the housing crisis that we're still dealing with the fallout. but, yeah, I mean,
Emily Vander Velden: He's also skeptical like it was her husband…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: who put those things in place.
Jeremy Schumacher: As someone who's so far left that, I don't like thinking of being a Democrat,
Emily Vander Velden: Ready your step away from anarchism,…
Jeremy Schumacher: I Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: just step with a bridge.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, So yeah, I skeptical there too again. But some of the stuff We're talking about social media but some of the stuff goes back to the Patriot Act and it's just like the ubiquity of South people having cellphones in their pockets and what the NSA was doing and some of that stuff. So I certainly don't trust Meta and elon musk and some of the social media companies, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the government is Better option. This is where I sound like a conspiratorial hippie. I don't think I hold any deep-seated conspiracies. But these things are Where the product. What you said before? yep.
Emily Vander Velden: And we are not the puppet masters, and we are at times. Just following the red herrings where they are supposed to lead us so that the people that are the puppet masters can do…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: what they need to do.
Jeremy Schumacher: And I think you…
Emily Vander Velden: Things.
Jeremy Schumacher: one of the issues with social media with that is if we're scrolling tiktok all day and laughing at cat videos, We're not trying to overthrow governments, we're not trying to eat the rich. there is some level of useful distraction from the puppet master's but also for us on an individual level again without those rose colored glasses of the past, everyone takes their phone into the bathroom with them. my Grandma's got readers digests from 1991 and her bathroom still, people have always been looking for Some stimulation or some distraction at downtime, that's not part of our brains are wired to be stimulated.
Emily Vander Velden:
Jeremy Schumacher: The performative nature. always being in front of a camera is new and unhealthy. But that drive for distraction has been there throughout history.
Emily Vander Velden: Such a profound statement, to think about that, The difference between distraction and also kind of our nervous system. Always. Being on to some extent.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: And write that performance. The need to kind of always monitor. What will other people think the comparison that's inherent? those factors that contribute to Increased depression, increased anxiety. Body dysmorphia. Being on social media.
Jeremy Schumacher: The Internet is so new still again people Forget 2000 Watt there was a time That wasn't even 30 years ago before regular folks were on the Internet. because it's spread so quickly and it's everywhere. we just act like it's normal, it's always been a part of our lives, but it's such a big shift in our history. To have this…
Emily Vander Velden: Right.
Jeremy Schumacher: where we don't even have data and research, we're just now getting data and research on some of this stuff because it's so new to have anything close to a longitudinal study that has been studying outcomes for years. we're just getting to that stage now.
Emily Vander Velden: Mm- Absolutely. Yeah. What do you as a therapist? What is your Social Media Diet?
00:30:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I go on reddit a lot and I don't have an account that I'm logged into because there's a piece of mind that comes with not needing to engage. And …
Emily Vander Velden: Mmm.
Jeremy Schumacher: read it has a bunch of* parts of it too. I think all social media does but for me, that's Like that, I am on YouTube a lot. I will say when I'm on my exercise bike, I'm playing video games, or I'm on YouTube. When I eat my lunch in between sessions, I pull up a YouTube video like YouTube probably. If I'm considering that social media is the thing I consume the most and I will say, My YouTube algorithm used to be awesome. And I don't want my kids to have an account so they use mine. So I know what they're seeing but that has severely messed up my algorithm Now,…
Emily Vander Velden: Okay.
Jeremy Schumacher: I get all these Super Mario videos. Recommended when I just want to watch sports highlights.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, I'm curious Yeah what is the content you're looking for seeking out. I have a theory that therapists seek out different content. because,
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: No, for me, I will say predominantly at sports stuff like that.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I have a sports performance background. So if you want to say that's still therapy related but I watch pro wrestling and sports clips on YouTube. Predominantly, I watch and listen to the pro wrestling. Is my happy. Turn off my brain and don't have to think too hard about anything. so when I'm using social media,…
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: when I'm using YouTube for that, it's entertainment As stress relief. Which is what pro wrestling does for me. Whereas reddit is more like scrolling news politics.
Emily Vander Velden: Okay.
Jeremy Schumacher: Getting stuff from different sources. seeing what the average reddit user, who is the unique, probably left leaning human being but still I'm aware of some of the Echo chamber there, but
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I don't know some of that stuff is interesting. So Reddit is more of my news, headlines stuff. Whereas YouTube is more of I don't watch Ted talks. I'm not like doing It's predominantly sports on YouTube and news predominantly on Reddit.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah. I have found that I mean, obviously I'm not really on social media, which is how you're like,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Really fun to have this conversation with you.
Emily Vander Velden: why would someone Have this because she's not on social media. And I think that's been a potential byproduct of being a trauma, therapist. Is that if I'm on Facebook or Instagram. I inherently. May have a difficult thing come across. My screen. And that's really activating for me in a very uncomfortable way.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: And I'm actually just happier not soaking in. When I'm not at work and anyone call it work, I don't know if you feel that way, I don't like calling being a therapist work.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: It feels like an actual calling. It's Right?
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Emily Vander Velden: I'm not just clocking out. That's not how that works.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I think.
Emily Vander Velden: But when right, the trauma work I do. I think it's heavy enough that if I'm on social media I need it to be very very surface level like I am The only social media I have is Tac. This is a safe space. Jeremy, right?
Jeremy Schumacher: I mean Yeah, I mean between you and I definitely and…
Emily Vander Velden: Thank you.
Jeremy Schumacher: we're recording and gonna put it on the Internet.
Emily Vander Velden: The thing that I watch on my tiktok is a Baby animals getting rescued and reha An oddly rugs getting cleaned. really dirty rugs getting called out.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, like Power washing,…
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah. Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: and then they're beautiful,…
Emily Vander Velden: that is the depth of my social media consumption.
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't know why that's more embarrassing than me admitting that. I like pro wrestling.
Emily Vander Velden: I don't know. I feel pretty self-conscious when I'm watching a rug get cleaned on my phone and I'm like wow.
Jeremy Schumacher: There are power wash video games where you just simulate. And you just control the power. Washer going back and forth, cleaning stuff, lawn cleanup. I get those recommended to me every once in a while, but I think I don't want to say it's Neurodivergent because they seem to use popular in general but I think I used to work in a ground screw. And like I said, I talked about this on it earlier episode like the repetitive nature of the mowing all of the lawns at a golf course, you're mowing the greens and you're mowing the fairways and the rough. And there's just a lot of mowing while.
00:35:00
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: That's very boring and sounds bad for ADHD because I was in nature. I really liked the repetitive nature I liked the repetitive aspect of the job as long as I was in nature.
Emily Vander Velden: Mm-hmm
Emily Vander Velden: Yep. Absolutely yeah, that's a huge win. I wonder…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: I wonder if a lot of folks who are really engaged. So this brings us to teenagers to, adolescents.
Emily Vander Velden: We are trained in our graduate programs to be in tune with our regulatory states. So that we can teach others how to be in tune with their regulatory states.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: So we know this feels, like we're activated and…
Jeremy Schumacher: I will just point of clarification,…
Emily Vander Velden: is that
Jeremy Schumacher: say you had a good grad program so I don't think that's every therapist grad program.
Emily Vander Velden: Yes.
Emily Vander Velden: Okay.
Jeremy Schumacher: But yes the main attention to our own systems. Yep.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah. Yeah, uw whitewater. Give up and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Array.
Emily Vander Velden: do, yes. wait just that reflective component that's built into the work we do. I think about how important it is to have that when you're engaging with any Internet or any sort of media input, even a book or a newspaper article, those still exist, right? I still get a little local newspaper.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yep.
Emily Vander Velden: I wonder what it's like to be a younger person and maybe not even know. What it feels like.
Emily Vander Velden: To be calm.
Emily Vander Velden: And not know what it feels like. To unplug.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I think it's at least in my work with a lot of folks is a return to Nature. doing a lot of grounding, how do we Unplug is a word that a lot of people use, but I do a lot of meaning making work and That's not online, people know. Some of it's online I guess. But again it's Even not being trained in this. I think people are experiencing it. I think young people are again aware of the mental health crisis. At a different level.
Emily Vander Velden: Mm-hmm
Jeremy Schumacher: And so some of those potential solutions are discussed
Jeremy Schumacher: I have to check myself often for my own privilege growing up in a family that highly highly privileged permit, education standpoint. I was poor and late diagnostic HD and not everything in my life was privileged from an intersectionality perspective, but a family that prioritized education and it's half of Americans, don't read above a sixth, grade reading level. and that's a statistic that continues to astound me but I have to go back to it to remind myself that Talking about structural injustice, talking about government overreach talking about our nervous systems, some people are reading at a sixth grade level, half of Americans are reading a sixth grade level like some of this stuff it is easier and far more accessible to go on tiktok and zone out than it is to say. I'm going to go do a yoga class because I know that's good for my nervous system.
Emily Vander Velden: Absolutely.
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't have a follow-up, just that.
Emily Vander Velden: Perfect. Not perhaps.
Jeremy Schumacher: That's a thing.
Emily Vander Velden: There is not a follow-up.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: There seems to be maybe some opportunity to acknowledge that discourse can only do so much. Right. And that's okay.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: And that's okay.
Jeremy Schumacher: I think there are people who are burnt out on social media. I think young people, Are seeing the performative nature of it and like that, all of there are people who again, are developing eating disorders because they're comparing themselves to photoshopped models. There are some people…
Emily Vander Velden: Mm-hmm
Jeremy Schumacher: who aren't seeing through the lens of this is a skewed version of reality. Some people are just hook line and sinker, I get that but I do have some faith and some hope around the people Gen Z and younger generations who are growing up in it to see This is emptiness at the end of it. there is no more and more and more is not a sustainable model.
Emily Vander Velden: So I'm curious. As so we have covered.
Emily Vander Velden: The fact that the power balance, like the authorities and the products are both human beings and one of them, one category, holds a great deal of power. One category almost feels like helpless in it and is saying, Yeah, whatever. At some point, someone's gonna see my bank, like that kind of like nihilism we're gonna do The fact that there are communities for People…
00:40:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: who are otherwise unable to find communities locally in their life IRL. So they're able to access communities globally, and that is a huge protective factor for mental health. We've also identified that there is Significant risks associated because in any situation, There's risks and benefits In some ways, it's a protective factor. And in some ways, it's dangerous because of the algorithms and the echo chambers. People get into.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: that takes them out of reality into emotional reasoning and it just really Feeling like they're kind of just constantly getting fed what they want to see which then creates divisiveness and takes us away from the people in our own communities.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: What else have we talked about? I mean, I feel like those are the big ones.
Jeremy Schumacher: There's interesting research as we're starting to research I think one of the things that stands out to me is our generation and older Millennials and older tend to be really poor about protecting our digital data. And younger generations are good about that, but younger generations are really unsafe with their physical data.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Young people are far more likely to give out their address. Because I think we grew up with all that fear around Internet strangers, gonna kidnap you. And young people don't have that frame of reference because they've always had the Internet,…
Emily Vander Velden: Wow.
Jeremy Schumacher: they've always had that stuff. And so they tend to be a little more savvy around their digital footprint, but less savy. With I could be at physical risk from someone on the Internet.
Emily Vander Velden: Isn't that interesting?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, so, I mean I still think there's so much to learn in this, I think. Where I land ultimately is a case-by-case thing, like each person. Creating space to be intentional with what? Technology looks like in your life. I'm sure for some people having a Google device or a Home is super helpful. I can see lots of applications for differently. Abled folks having some of that stuff. Automated for them is as life-changing, and that's awesome.
Emily Vander Velden: My goodness, 100%. Especially for Neurodivergent folks.
Jeremy Schumacher: Setting alarms and having some of that stuff reminding you regardless of where you set your phone down or what room you're in. Yeah. I…
Emily Vander Velden: and you imagine, Sounds fantastic.
Jeremy Schumacher: I'm not willing to put Google devices.
Jeremy Schumacher: But I think if the Internet had stayed open source and had never been pulled into capitalism, be a different world. We were living in.
Emily Vander Velden: i think it's really interesting Jeremy because I think that what initially sparked this conversation, Was.
Emily Vander Velden: At least from what I remember for me. I generally feel pretty optimistic about social media. I think at the end of the day, I tend to lean on. There's a lot of opportunity like you said for community building? Yes, there are a lot of dangers. There is danger in all things and the importance of education and
Emily Vander Velden: appropriate regulation and just awareness goes a long way in being able to amplify the good stuff. I think I still feel that way.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, I mean I certainly don't think Banning Tiktok crown of governmental level is going to change people's tiktok use That ship has sailed.
Emily Vander Velden: Mm-hmm
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't know, we've gone through MySpace to Instagram to snapchat to tiktok what We don't want to be alone. as humans don't want to be alone. And so, I think, regardless of who owns what company gets shut down or hopefully, Elon musk at some point, gets taken off the Internet. Like These.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah. That would just do vanity,…
Emily Vander Velden: a great favor.
Jeremy Schumacher: These people are gonna come back with something.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: And if capitalism is the system and we're still in that sort of colonial mindset, someone's going to use it for bad reasons.
Emily Vander Velden: Right. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I don't know. A lot of what I use for running my business is the thing I have to pay for, but what I record, not this but some of my in-person podcasts. Last time, we recorded in person and I use open source program for that. I don't know what that means. I just know it's free and that the people who do understand it, keep it running smoothly Vlc media. Player is still…
00:45:00
Emily Vander Velden: So yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: what I use because it's open source and it's pay for it. It's not behind the subscription model so I'm optimistic.
Jeremy Schumacher: I'm hopeful, we can navigate overthrowing a lot of the Colonialist mindset while not totally collapsing civilization. Because I do think that's sort of we're headed where people are sick of the subscription models. They're sick of not physically owning their stuff. there are people who are saying I'm just doing this because Everything else sucks. So here's the program that's free and anyone can use it and I'm not doing it to track your data. I just hate the system that everyone else is using. So …
Emily Vander Velden: yeah, right.
Jeremy Schumacher: I like that stuff and that stuff gives me hope that there's a way to do some of this to keep the good stuff and maybe not get rid of all the bad completely. But Have less of it.
Emily Vander Velden: Mm- Absolutely.
Jeremy Schumacher: Would be cool. I don't know…
Emily Vander Velden: Absolutely.
Jeremy Schumacher: how long that'll take.
Emily Vander Velden: Right right. There's both My macro and The macro is the systemic look of your family therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: Jeremy you're going to be looking at the systems here.
Jeremy Schumacher: All right. Yeah. And I talk about colonial mindset and I talk about colonization a lot more now at this stage in my life than I ever did before I mean some of that's because I'm Privileged enough to be at a stable place in my life where I can dissect some of that. A lot of that for me, was leaving the church where now I look back and see the systems inherent in. Racism and control on the systemic level that the Church uses. But also colonizers have used whether it was church-based or just we have a bigger military than you like. So, Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Capitalism is just a vehicle Control. And again, while we can say technology might get rid of some of the bad humanity has also tried to control other humans throughout history and so when we get rid of capitalism, there'll be something else.
Emily Vander Velden: You are one step away from anarchism you're so close. You're so there Jeremy.
Jeremy Schumacher: I when I left the church it was optimistic nihilism like that's where I was for a while and There's still a flavor of that, I think we're Beings that shouldn't exist spinning on Iraq at 600,000 miles an hour. We're here for 80 years, I don't know. There's some value to watch in cat videos, I think.
Emily Vander Velden: a hundred percent. I think that's so powerful, And I mean if you think about Marxist theory and you think about the idea of the base and the superstructure and the base, Kind of setting the tone for the superstructure. So the base is basically the means of production, superstructure is basically culture and our perceived reality. So whoever controls the mains of production controls reality And controls our elliptic experience and as much as we can be bservers of that process, we are empowered. To acknowledge that there are tools. That we can take to help us and there are things we can just say that*. You know what I mean? I don't need that.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: We don't have to I mean yes we live in a capitalist ocean, that's the water we're swimming in and If we can kind of elevate ourselves above the water and see what else there is, we are better able to navigate the waters themselves.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, and I don't identify as a Marxist because I think that the philosophy sounds much better than the applications ever been but …
Emily Vander Velden:
Jeremy Schumacher: Being a Somebody who works with religious trauma and working with different cult structures. most of these entities, Some of them are a grift from the beginning, obviously scams, but a lot of stuff that turns colts into cult starts with a f*** all this. Let's go build a Utopia of our own. Everyone helps everyone, it'll be lovely. And it ends up not being because it's really hard to, I think, actually the colonialize. A lot of that stuff and there's still human error involved, it's hard to let go of our implicit biases, It's hard to set up any structure that doesn't include in group out group dynamics.
Jeremy Schumacher: So I don't know it's where I kind of land with I don't have an answer necessarily. I try not to be doom and gloom about it and optimistic nihilist. But no, anarchism's very appealing to some part of my brain and other part of my brain wants human connection and craves community. They don't want to go live in a cave by myself because when my brain is well stimulated I like people. All right.
00:50:00
Jeremy Schumacher: If I'm under overstimulated, I don't much care for people. But, you…
Emily Vander Velden: He?
Jeremy Schumacher: So, again, finding I have all these different networks and different groups do different things for me. But part of meaning, making for me is the pagan folks. I know who are non-theistic and ritual is very important, even though, we know it's just our brain tricking itself into caring that caring still matters. And so, if we can provide intentional space for that, cool.
Emily Vander Velden: Absolutely. Wow.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: But that's what works well for me.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah. I love that, I don't know. it's
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Younger me also love the for vendetta and let's just blow it all up and start over.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah. We are.
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't advocate for violence.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah. and maybe at the end of the day, we acknowledge that we have the sentence this awareness of the world.
Emily Vander Velden: and at the same time, We are. Just witnesses. We kind of have this belief that we know more than we actually know and we can get duped into things…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: because the reality testing of our consciousness is a subpar so,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. we're self-aware mammals,…
Emily Vander Velden: Acknowl At the end of the day.
Jeremy Schumacher: at the end of the day,
Emily Vander Velden: So, maybe it's worth just really putting that all into perspective. I think that if we could all just acknowledge that we don't really know much and that the best we can do is Be self-aware and mindful. And present in the moment. I don't know,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: maybe things would feel a lot. Less complicated.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, and I talk about colonization a lot more than I used to. I talk about healing and community a lot more than I used to like again I think some of it is leaving the church, some of it is understanding my diagnosis on a different level. Some of it is having kids has given me a different perspective, I think there are a lot of things that have changed. I've been in the mental health field for 15 years. So hopefully I've changed.
Emily Vander Velden: We all.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, but that perspective shift I think is a good thing and also not everyone's there again there's some memes of was it Chris Evans looking in the mirror where he's joking about himself at 13 and that 20 and at 30 and I don't know It's good to change as we get older, I maintain a lot of optimism about the younger generations. I don't know that specific to social media.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I have my days from this** sucks and we should never ever have created it and let's get rid of it. but, Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: maybe social media isn't the problem. Maybe it's a lack of awareness. Maybe it's the system in which social media exists.
Jeremy Schumacher: I think social media is neutral. I think it's a lot of…
Emily Vander Velden: Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: how people use it. I think it's a lot about the larger systems using it. Nefarious but nefarious sounds so comical. But I think that's the correct word I think Meta is a nefarious company. I think Twitter is nefarious Exxon Mobil is obviously nefarious, but I think so please. So are these social media?
Emily Vander Velden: here's, Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: You…
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah. Wow.
Jeremy Schumacher: so, Yeah, I think it's the structure. I don't think,…
Emily Vander Velden: Mm-hmm
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't think all of that is fixed by having a different. democratic socialist or Marxist or even anarchist, again, But if we can have the idea that we're self-aware, mammals spinning on a rock, that should have never existed. I think that provides us some opportunity to be present and make your community better than it was like, That's a worthwhile pursuit.
Emily Vander Velden: A hundred percent and maybe social media is yet another red herring. That's taking us away from the true issues.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: At play.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. but also,…
Emily Vander Velden: Maybe.
Jeremy Schumacher: some little kids out there growing up conservative Christian and learning a lot because they're on social media or somebody is Being raised as a istic. Human and they're seeing that has significant floss. So
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, absolutely.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, we just kind of landed where we started with a pros and cons.
Emily Vander Velden: I think for me the coolest part of this was that there's pros and cons day-to-day pros and cons, big picture. Is it seems pretty darn likely that social media is just any sort, it's like water. it has currents. It moves.
00:55:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: It can get contaminated. And it can also cleanse and It is like you said neutral, it's just a matter of the forces around it.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, the radio was gonna corrupt the youth newspapers. We're going to corrupt the youth CDs.
Emily Vander Velden: Yep.
Jeremy Schumacher: We're going to ruin the music industry. there have been panics about all of these things. The printing press also was very limited in who had access and control to print the information they wanted. So some of this isn't new. Looks different.
Emily Vander Velden: Thank you. This was great. I'm glad we did this. How do you feel?
Jeremy Schumacher: I feel good. I like having these conversations.
Emily Vander Velden: I am definitely gonna take that. Visualization of who's polluting the waters of the Internet? Who's? Helping clean up the waters of the Internet,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: Interesting. I like that.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, yeah. This was
Emily Vander Velden: Assuming and Very swimming in dangerous water. It's good.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, that harm reduction approach to the Internet.
Emily Vander Velden: Protection experience. Yeah, I'm gonna take that with me. I'm Using it.
Jeremy Schumacher: Of it. Love it,…
Jeremy Schumacher: you already named Drops but go ahead.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: I would be curious. I don't know if you have folks that comment on the podcasts and things. We should see if there's any interest in another topic like some sort of ambiguous topic. That's worth exploring. I'd be here.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, it's not out yet but it will have been out by the time this episode's out as we just did episode on burnout. I'm starting. This is your second time being on the podcast and obviously you and I have known each other for years before I started a podcast. But I am starting to repeat with people because I like the one-off interview and That's interesting and I love to highlight and promote people who are doing good work and help people connect with them. But also,
Jeremy Schumacher: Scheduling, it's hard for me. As an ADHD year and I think we can do some of these deep dives on certain topics. A lot of the professionals who have highlighted on podcasts are awesome and doing great work, and also have a lot of wealth of knowledge on various topics. but yeah, I mean, people behind the curtains No, I have a patreon. I don't understand how it works. I don't know where people could comments. My media person has to post the podcast on Apple because I refuse to use apple products. So there's some pieces of this.
Emily Vander Velden: if somebody This is a
Jeremy Schumacher: There's some pieces of this that aren't all firing on all cylinders.
Emily Vander Velden: That's okay. Yeah, thank you so much. I'm so glad we did this. This was cool.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, so when people listen on your end and they tell you what they want to hear, It was easy. You said should we do a social media episode? It's like, Yeah, let's do it.
Jeremy Schumacher: You named that radio Milwaukee. We both were on the uniquely Milwaukee podcast for two episodes. Talking about suicide prevention. This episode will go out after September's done, but we also will have done an event around music and art and mental health and so Yeah, I don't know. I'm that community mindset is very important to me and ethically aligned with my values for I have a lot of things I could talk about. I just don't know what's meaningful to people. So I like the collaborative approach of If you want to talk about something, let us know.
Emily Vander Velden: Yes, Thank you, Jeremy for doing this. Thank you for offering space.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: It's super great.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, Emily To have you awesome to chat. As always, if people want to work with you or learn more about your new practice, where do they go? How do they find you? Because you're not on social media?
Emily Vander Velden: Not really yeah right now I am probably easily found on Psych today looking up renewed focus or looking up Emily Vander velden that's probably the easiest way to go since there's a direct link. also a website, renewed, focus, wi.com
Emily Vander Velden: I'm probably have some more marketing out it's just, I got to have a slow opening and so You…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: getting professional photos taken in a couple weeks. And I think once I get those done I'll be able to Get more stuff out there but it's not my normal wheelhouse. So today, website.
Jeremy Schumacher: And we'll have the links to that stuff. I will say photos on your website are tough because it's like Mine. have my boys, a family photo on there. It's for people who care that I'm a parent and that's important to them. And Do I update those? it's all marketing is weird.
01:00:00
Emily Vander Velden: It is. I'm wondering…
Jeremy Schumacher: There's a lot of weird questions around it.
Emily Vander Velden: if it's inappropriate or unprofessional for me to get a headshot holding my cats.
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't think so. I guess it depends on what face you're making because you could really come across. I think Jim gaffigan. The stand-up comedian does a bit where he's saying glasses, make him look smarter, but then he puts them on crooked and says but if someone's wearing their glasses like this, not to approach them. So
Emily Vander Velden: That's funny. I just loved her.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah.
Emily Vander Velden: I think she'd be so pissed. She'd be like No I'm not doing this.
Jeremy Schumacher: I took some weird senior photos because again, I was no divergent and didn't know it at the time but …
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, I don't know again, we don't really grow up that much beyond our high school selves. So this is just the adult version of your high school senior pictures I don't know. One of my classmate of mine,…
Emily Vander Velden: You're right.
Jeremy Schumacher: got a picture holding a wooden owl, and that was his senior picture that he used for the yearbook and that has aged very well. that's still very funny. So yeah, I don't know if you're weird and You're getting weird clientele and other neurodivergent folks. I think it speaks to that.
Emily Vander Velden: It might serve as a very appropriate filter.
Jeremy Schumacher: Correct. Yeah. Sure.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah. Tbd
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, we'll put a link to your website so people can keep an eye out for your potential cat. Lady picture Yeah,…
Emily Vander Velden: Thank you.
Jeremy Schumacher: so people can find Emily has been awesome. Thanks for coming on. And to all our wonderful listeners.
Emily Vander Velden: Yeah, thank you.
Jeremy Schumacher: Thank you so much for tuning in. Once again, we'll be back next week with another new episode. Take care, everyone.
Emily Vander Velden: Bye.
Meeting ended after 01:01:56 👋
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