Your Therapist Needs Therapy 81 - Grief and Growth with Tracy Keller

This week Jeremy sits down with Tracy Keller, owner of Firefly Counseling, who shares her unconventional path into mental health, starting with diverse interests like dietetics and art history before finding her niche in therapy. Tracy discusses her specialization in trauma and grief, with a focus on supporting women, teens, and those navigating perinatal challenges, using a tailored, eclectic approach that integrates EMDR and somatic work. She also reflects on the challenges of balancing private practice ownership, motherhood, and self-care, emphasizing the importance of adapting to life’s seasons and building community support.

To learn more about Tracy and her work, head over to fireflycounselingmke.com or give Tracy a follow on Instagram @fireflycounselingmke

Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube. 

Head over to Patreon to support the show, or you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well!

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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.

If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.

Transcript

Your Therapist Needs Therapy - Tracy Keller - 2024/11/12 08:29 CST - Transcript
Attendees
Jeremy Schumacher, Tracy Stuettgen
Transcript
Jeremy Schumacher: Hello and welcome to another edition of Your Therapist Needs Therapy, the podcast where two mental health professionals talk about their mental health journeys and how they navigate mental wellness while working in the mental health field. I'm your host, Jeremy Schumacher, licensed marriage and family therapist. To support the show, head over to patreon.com/wwellnesswithjare. I'm a mental health professional,…
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: not a professional podcaster, so any likes and subscribes, reviews, all that stuff is helpful. back with a local therapist today, someone who's in the Milwaukee area doing some great work that I'm very excited to talk about. I am joined today by Tracy Keller, owner and operator at Firefly Counseling LLC. Tracy, thanks for joining me today.
Tracy Stuettgen: Thanks so much for having me.
Tracy Stuettgen: I'm excited to be here.
Jeremy Schumacher: I start most of the podcasts with the same question,…
Jeremy Schumacher: which is, how did you get into the mental health field?
Tracy Stuettgen: It's complicated.
Tracy Stuettgen: So, I think it's important to kind of know my background.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah,…
Tracy Stuettgen: I'm the first person in my immediate nuclear family to have a four-year college degree. So, figuring out college was a thing. I like in high school or maybe more middle school, I totally thought I was going to go to ITT Tech because it was the only school that I was aware of because of the commercials.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: But figured out four-year college was a thing and…
Tracy Stuettgen: that I should probably go.
Tracy Stuettgen: Somehow I got in my brain that I was going to be a dietitian. So, I started there. terrible in chemistry because that is not my strong suit. and was like, we're going to have to pivot in some way. So, started just leaning into things that I was thought were interesting or things I was good at. So, leaned into art history, but then was like, what do I do with that? Leaned into teaching because I was like, that could be something I'd be good at. and had I don't know, a student teaching experience in the first semester paired with this literacy in America dialogue class,
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I can relate.
Jeremy Schumacher: Mhm. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: which was the coolest class I've ever had. And I was just like, this feels too hard. This feels like there's too much on the line.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: So what I do like mental health, I don't know. Somehow my brain couldn't do that, but can do this. and then I thought about psychology always, but I figured if chem sucked, I was never going to get through the weed out class of psych stats. So, I was I'm just going to find something else. So, I started a comm degree and leaned heavily into the interpersonal kind of dynamics of that, which was kind of different side of therapy, and then I was like, what? I think I could probably try it. At least let them weed me out if it's going to happen. So, finished and got majors in both common and psych. and then was like, what am I going to do here? So, I remember vividly there was a class like research methods, but she was going through the different things you can do with a psychology degree as it pertains to therapy.
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Tracy Stuettgen: What's a psychiatrist, what's a psychologist, what's a therapist?
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: I was like, "Two more years before I have to really figure out what I'm doing. Sounds good." So decided to look at therapy at that point and really kind of in reflecting every kind of move I was making in there had an element that I feel leads into therapy. So dietetics, I feel like it's like that counseling piece. Art history brings that creative side of things. Teaching, I mean,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.
Tracy Stuettgen: yeah, That's right there. and communication. So, I feel like it all kind of lended itself in a way to it. but it was kind of just this path I was kind of building as I went, I think. And funnily enough, too, in thinking about this question, I remember when I was in school, my mom had told me randomly in second or third grade, I told her I wanted to be a social worker. I'm not a social worker, but I was like,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Sure.
Tracy Stuettgen: that's interesting." Because I totally didn't even remember that.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: So maybe it's been in my head for a minute,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: but yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: What was like grad school and internship in that process when you landed there? Is that something that resonated and felt good then or was there still sort of like I got to figure out what I'm doing.
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah, it was still a lot of that. So I remember the first day in orientation, they talked about the 30,000 hour internship after you graduate and I was like, " that's a thing.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. I didn't Yeah. Mhm.
Tracy Stuettgen: Shoot." I'm not prepared and total imposter syndrome of what am I doing here? I don't even know the basic things about becoming a therapist. but found my track had a really awesome professor in a specialty that I don't do anymore but I feel like I found these mentors throughout my life who have kind of helped direct me on the path a little bit.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: So he was really pivotal in I don't know just helping me build my confidence in that I was supposed to be there and that this was something that I had a talent for. but I started actually in kid and teens my specialty was child and adolescence. so my internship was at a day treatment which I didn't necessarily want it to be. I thought I wanted to work more with families. I don't work for families now but I thought I wanted to do that. and ultimately there they had live supervision which I thought was super awesome. the therapists who there were phenomenal. but I really didn't like the setting.
00:05:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: I really didn't appreciate how they were doing the therapy. I didn't necessarily think it was and I don't know. I kind of felt icky after a while of being there and growing a little bit more in the field after I got my 3,000 hours there.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: So decided to go somewhere and just kind of get an experience of everything getting thrown at me. So I went to a large health care system and saw a little bit of everything. which I think was great at the time because I got a feel for what I want to specialize in from that job. And we were thinking about starting a family and I was like, I can't do this. I can't have essential hours. I need to be working and show up as a parent the way I want to. So decided to go off on my own and…
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Tracy Stuettgen: and also there were things I couldn't unsee after being in the health care system of just seeing patients as numbers and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: feeling like a cow.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: so there's just pieces that I feel like are fundamental that have come out that I really wanted to put forward in my practice of just being so client centered and so every decision I feel goes for my gut and to me what feels right to the client so we can kind of have that good balance so I feel cared for but also that I know that everything I'm doing I'm helping my clients not my patients in that So,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. For What was sort of the vibe you got about opening your own practice while you were in school? Was that a thing that was talked about or was that a thing you sort of had to figure out on your own?
Tracy Stuettgen: interestingly enough, my year that I was in my school was the first year that they opened up this clinical mental health counseling degree.
Jeremy Schumacher: Mhm. Yeah, sure.
Tracy Stuettgen: So, before it was a community mental health thing. It was like 40ome credits.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: they opened up to have more credits to kind of fit the accreditation thing they were kind of moving for. so they introduced all these new classes the last year that I was there and one of them was a private practice type of class. All we did was make a business plan and I remember when I was coming out of the day treatment job I was I could start a private practice now. I just need to make a business plan. So, I have half of a really thoroughly thought out business plan that is a bunch of bull crap.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: It's stuff that I don't even know if I've looked at it since. So, I think as I was starting to build getting this idea that I wanted to build my own practice, I was fortunate enough to have a friend who's out of state but we went to grad school together and both didn't have that background.
Jeremy Schumacher: Mhm. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: And we really kind of just, did what I do apparently and figured it out as we went. so she built hers and…
Tracy Stuettgen: I built mine kind of together, which was a really amazing experience and a really good bonding dynamic for us. But yeah, no, not none.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: There was maybe a presenter who talked about private practice, but …
Jeremy Schumacher: I think in grad school we did one paper on building your ideal practice and…
Tracy Stuettgen: yeah. Nope. Yes. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: it was don't worry about budget just if you could do whatever you wanted and we all had these in the wood retreat center based just totally unrealistic and…
Tracy Stuettgen: I called mine safe haven and it was something like that too. Amazing though and…
Jeremy Schumacher: And yeah,…
Tracy Stuettgen: especially coming out and seeing what people can build.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: That's not that class.
Jeremy Schumacher: no, not at all. what has your feeling been since opening your own place? what has that felt like for you as a provider? And what have you sort of learned and built your practice into?
Tracy Stuettgen: So, I think I've learned a lot about just mental health,…
Tracy Stuettgen: which sounds wonky, like I should have done that in school or before then, but just I think I finally had a chance to breathe and really about and think about me and how I'm showing up with my clients and kind of backing off some of the rules that we got in grad school, too, about how we're supposed to show up and all that good stuff. but I think it's been really cool.
Jeremy Schumacher: Mhm. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: I think I found in my schooling experience that I really like to learn. So I really like to throw myself at workshops or…
00:10:00
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Tracy Stuettgen: seminars or conferences, things like that, just to kind of see what's going on in the field. And I feel like that's really kind of been invaluable, too. I'm certified in EMDR, but I like to think that I kind of play with the idea of EMDR. I also have training in CPT. and a little bit of sematic work and parts work …
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: but I think that's been so helpful because when in the trauma work I'm doing I don't believe that one modality fits for everybody and I think it's a really cool unique experience kind of being able to tailor things to whoever's in front of me and kind of work collabor collaboratively together to see what's going to feel safest to you help empower them through their trauma which is usually a situation where they didn't feel
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: power. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that eclectic is what they used to call it in school was sort of frowned upon at least I went to Marquette back in the day and…
Tracy Stuettgen: Yep. Same.
Jeremy Schumacher: that was the vibe I got was like I'm neurode divergent right I'm neurode divergent undiagnosed at that point …
Tracy Stuettgen: Yes. Yeah. Pick a modality.
Jeremy Schumacher: but eclectic sounded really great but this is sloppy therapy and yeah I think right I've been in the field for 15 years now there isn't a for everyone. There isn't even a singular modality that works for a singular person for all of the therapy.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: Most of the time, you're drawing different things and showing up in different ways to be helpful to people.
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah, 100%.
Tracy Stuettgen: And I think if you're too rigid in one thing too, it puts that relationship in jeopardy. And I think that's the most important thing. you have to be comfortable with who you're talking to.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: And someone has to be able to adjust out of that or…
Tracy Stuettgen: adjust out of a modality to kind of meet the individual needs. Yeah, that's a really good question.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. What is your experience with working with trauma like that flexibility between having a formula or…
Jeremy Schumacher: having a plan can be really safe for people and sort of the take as it pops up, take it as it comes sort of approach Right. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: I think about treatment plans I put together and they coming from a health care system where you just found the things to put in the things to plug into a formula or equation for a treatment plan for anxiety. If I try to keep things so general but This sounds totally like it doesn't go together, But in a general idea of if you were feeling better, if you were feeling like you were getting what you needed out of therapy, what would be different? and that's kind of where we're aiming towards. So that's what I kind of put as a treatment goal.
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Tracy Stuettgen: And then finding what's the path for you to get there? I believe, similar to the EMDR dynamic, being able to know that your brain's trying to heal itself. It's trying to kind of be on its own journey into healing.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: and I'm just kind of helping to facilitate that. So, I don't like to be too rigid in…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: what needs to happen because I don't freaking know, I just know what we can do with what's coming up in your brain to help you get to that kind of goal or…
Tracy Stuettgen: that target that you're shooting for. If that makes sense.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I think I'm biased, Because that's also where I've landed after some time in the field.
Tracy Stuettgen: Okay.
Jeremy Schumacher: But yeah, we're facilitators, we're helpers. a lot of times I don't say it in therapy,…
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: but my thought process is sort of that's what I think, but who the f*** am I? I have this idea of this could be helpful, but let's test it out and Tracy,…
Tracy Stuettgen: I know I'm here now.
Tracy Stuettgen: I don't know what's going on. I'm sorry.
Jeremy Schumacher: I lost you.
Tracy Stuettgen: Can you hear me now?
Jeremy Schumacher: right.
Jeremy Schumacher: What did I hear Your screen's a little janky. Hang on. Let me see if there's some settings I can Google Meet just updated itself and…
Tracy Stuettgen: Perfect. Do you want me to plug in somewhere?
Jeremy Schumacher: all the stuff that I know how to do is in a different spot now. Okay, I'm on Yeah, it is better.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: I'm on Ethernet, so it just might be your Wi-Fi.
Tracy Stuettgen: Okay, let me know.
Jeremy Schumacher: It's been okay.
Tracy Stuettgen: I got…
Tracy Stuettgen: what you said. I'm trying to remember what it was though, but my brain's a little mushy today.
Jeremy Schumacher: Did we catch any of that that I said?
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't remember what I said.
Tracy Stuettgen: So, I know you were talking a little bit about …
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. …
Tracy Stuettgen: what got you to a place where you kind of were meandering more in human plans, too. And I'm curious about that, too. So, I'm happy to pick up with a question.
00:15:00
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I can sort of restart where I'm at. I don't say this out loud in therapy, but my thought process is always sort of like here's what I think, but who the f*** am I? and again, I don't say that that doesn't give people, I think, a lot of trust in their therapist, but sort of this hypothesis approach or I'm holding these ideas gently. I have a lot of information from the psych world. I have a lot of research in my brain.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: I have a lot of experience with other clients. And so, it is this sort of tentative I'm curious about this. Let's see about this. Let's play with this. Let's test this. Let's gather more information and see where we're at. And I think that feels a more realistic and…
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah. What in your experience got you there or…
Jeremy Schumacher: also safer for a lot of folks.
Tracy Stuettgen: got you to transition away from what you learned traditionally about treatment plans? Cute.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. I think pretty early on, coming out of grad school, I knew how to do an intake and a second session really well, and then the third session was kind of like, o They're not better yet. and I think, having some of those experiences, having the clients who made the most progress just where I was curious and wasn't trying to do techniques or…
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah. Hey.
Jeremy Schumacher: modalities or be real formulaic, the people who improved with my help, who I could facilitate the most were just people I was curious with and sort of showed up as a person who wanted to be helpful, but didn't know what that looked like. I will say Harleen Anderson's book, Conversation, Language, and Possibility probably saved me from dropping out of the fields because at the time that I was at Marquette, and I don't know what Marquette's at now, so I don't throw too much shade, but 15 years ago, Marquette was real heavy on evidence-based practice, as in insurance will reimburse you for doing CBT, so do CBT.
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Jeremy Schumacher: And so, I found this textbook that was real postmodern and therapist as a helper, not as an expert. And that just really landed well for me. And then I did a lot of couples therapy. So, it was the licensed marriage family therapy part of my approach. It's just couples are not following a script in therapy. there's a lot more movement and…
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: it's a dynamic process in the room as opposed to follow your treatment plan to a tea. So, you just sort of have to deal with what comes up in real time and process it in real time. And that's useful, that's beneficial.
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah, that's cool.
Tracy Stuettgen: I feel similar just like having that experience to kind of figure out what it is because I think maybe it's at least for me the anxiety of coming out of grad school is like I want to do this right I don't quite know there's got to be a way to do it and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: I'm also in a similar generation I think I'm 13 years out or I don't know 11 something like that I don't know what's math yeah a decade plus …
Jeremy Schumacher: A decade plus.
Tracy Stuettgen: but it was heavy in some of that and I think it offered some comfort in there's
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: there's a thing to do, and now it's like I don't know.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: Sometimes I'll be even working with students who are in counseling educator programs. They're like, what's the plan here?" And I'm like, "I don't know if you're going to like the answer to this." it's a loose plan. It's a direction more. But yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: And I have all these mantras, cliches. I don't think of them as cliches, but I have a lot of mantras of process oriented as opposed to goal oriented or more like I don't talk about finish lines very often.
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah. Mhm.
Jeremy Schumacher: I talk about what progress looks like. And again, it updates. I think sometimes that can lead to crisis of the week, which I'm aware of and try to keep us from falling into cuz I do think that can be unhelpful I hear when people come and see me and they've had the same therapist for eight years and they just kind of go in and chitchat like, " that's not therapy." so yeah,…
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: it's like you said, there's a direction, there's a loose plan for movement,…
Tracy Stuettgen: Right. Mhm.
Jeremy Schumacher: and we'll fill in the details as we go as opposed to having the details and needing to go step by step through Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's so interesting when you were talking about that the clients who go in with the fire of the week. I was just talking with somebody thinking about therapists as different kinds of gardeners. there's therapists who kind of just spray the flowers, I think of them as the impatient therapists who are let's just keep you living, and then people who are kind of just tending the flowers taking some of the I don't know the leaves off or pruning or whatever. And then I feel really over time I'm like a flipping like gardener.
00:20:00
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: I'm in the dirt rooting things out and things like that too. And I feel like that's therapy. And I think it's intimidating to some folks to kind of step into that kind of work. But I think
Jeremy Schumacher: Okay. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: where real kind of rooted change happens. And I think that's what I always look for in folks that I network with and other therapists that I'm connected to because I think that's how we get there.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, for I use a lot of gardening metaphors because there's seasons, there's maintenance, there's digging the old weeds out and rocks and…
Tracy Stuettgen: Right. Mhm. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: looking at all that stuff, seeing what we want to do with it. So, yeah, that's a rich metaphor in a lot of ways. what's sort of the niche area, the clientele you like to work with? What's the population that you feel like you vibe with at this point in your career?
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: So, my practice really focuses on women and teens with trauma and grief. So, I talked about, I have a lot of trauma background and I kind of just view everyone from that trauma lens. and I really like listening to people's experiences and getting to know why people are the way that they are and what's kind of shaped them. and helping them grow into,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: however they want to grow with their trauma, which I think It's neat to witness. I've had a personal experience with grief, too. So, I feel like that kind of threw me into the world of that. and I feel like it lends itself to I don't know when you've gone through something, it's easier to say okay, it's not going to be okay, s*** happens and that really sucks and I can sit here with that. so that's kind of been my general niche over time.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: it's developed into I've gotten my paranatal certificate.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: After I had a really complicated pregnancy, I just became aware of how uninformed the whole OB world is in the realm of just informed care. and how very small things could probably make huge adjustments for people who were a simple question in recovery of what was your pregnancy What was your birthing experience from a nurse in recovery or a social worker in recovery? That I think would be huge.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: just to have that compassionate care because it is such a complex health dynamic that your body's going through and I don't think there's necessarily the emotional exp support to go through that entire experience of even for most women…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: what is it to gain 50 pounds in a matter of nine months and then for a year or years after to see the changes that your body happens I think there's a lot of conversation around it's a beautiful experience, but okay, but there's a lot of change that happens too, and from a trauma lens, right, some of that change in your body can be reminders of a traumatic experience, too, which I think is an important thing to kind of be aware of as well.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: Prior to all of the paranatal certificate, a part of my EMDR work was also focusing on women's health, which included pelvic floor support for sexual abuse or even like anxiety symptoms. So that really feels like it seamlessly kind of moved into this postpartum birth trauma complicated pregnancy dynamic too,…
Tracy Stuettgen: especially when I can use EMDR or other kind of somatic modalities to help people process whatever their body is kind of not over yet or not worked through. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: And just I think setting that idea that there's not a specific timeline that people need to be on. And I think that goes against the medical model in a lot of ways that has this sort of textbook approach of you just do this your body will respond this way with not a lot of nuance that people's bodies respond in different ways.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: And I think that's the piece of it, too. I think, pelvic floor PT is amazing. I think that, that should be kind of prescribed to most women or PE birthing people postpartum. but in general,…
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Tracy Stuettgen: right, it's like, if you do these things, it should get better. And even for women with some sexual dysfunction, sometimes there's been no trauma, sometimes it's anxiety and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Right.
Tracy Stuettgen: there's so much tension that's held that it creates pain and there's not a lot of conversations with that, at least that I know of happening, in the medical realm of things, right?
00:25:00
Tracy Stuettgen: everything has to kind of have a physical cause or it's just kind of lumped into that's anxiety and you're kind of just be stuck with that kind of sematic symptom and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Right. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: and maybe right maybe but I'm always curious to see what can happen with the body when whatever's needs to be processed is able to kind of process through the body For sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: And I think our understanding of how trauma works and where it resides has shifted a lot in the field as well. which has been a good thing. yeah. How do you take care of yourself while you're doing this work? Thanks.
Tracy Stuettgen: That's a great question. I'm in a season where we're renovating our kitchen and doing other stuff, so I'm not much right now, honestly. but in general, I think it's time in nature. I really like being outside. I really like going for hikes. I like a hard hike, too.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: I also run. So, typically I'm getting back into it…
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Tracy Stuettgen: because now I'm coming out of the season of having kids and whatnot. but I usually will run a half marathon a year. So, I did a half marathon at Mount Reneer in July of this year and I always love those types of races and experience because I feel like it's such like a spiritual experience for me too. It's like this thing that just helps me process, which I think is probably some of the bilateral stimulation of just running for a really long time. but also builds my confidence and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Nice. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: look what my body can do, but also helps me connect, to loss that I've had. so it's always kind of this amazing thing that I just feel like is so rejuvenating in that way.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: I'm also really fortunate to have some good friends, too, who I feel like are not my therapists, but are people who I could talk about I don't know, but hole with or something like that, and they'd be down for that. So, I think just having those good connections,…
Tracy Stuettgen: too, really helps. I used to cook more. I haven't cooked in a while. And reading, I'm like a big reader. I love that. Yeah. Right.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. What's the current state?
Jeremy Schumacher: Because it shifts and adjusts. So current balancing act you have for private practice owner,…
Tracy Stuettgen: Mhm. Yep. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: mom, taking care of yourself as a human individual. what have you learned about that process as having kids and hiring a new therapist and some of the changes that happen in your practice professionally and then some of the changes that happen in your life personally Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: I mean, that I'm an actual person. And I think one of the things that I learned earlier that I'm really applying to myself right now is that coping is hard. it's a lot of work to continually be engaging in self-care. it's exhausting for people. it's exhausting for me from time to time. And I'm pretty real with that with my clients, too. I'm figuring that out as we go, too. I know we're just coming out of an election, too. So, that has been thing on top of there. but in general, I think it's like finding pockets of it and even if I can't find even…
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Tracy Stuettgen: if I don't have time to run a half marathon right now, It's maintaining a good balance for me.
Jeremy Schumacher: Mhm. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: I only do client work two days a week. I have two days off where I'm just with my kids and then I have a day where it's kind of like a little bit of both.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: So it's really kind of really securing in time that I have in my different roles that has been really helpful for me.
Jeremy Schumacher: Mhm. sure.
Tracy Stuettgen: And then I'm in those roles. So when I'm working my partner is in charge of any phone calls for the kids, things like that. when I'm with the kids, we…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: we're doing stuff we go to the zoo, we go to the library, we're regular there. Miss Maria and Tossa is the bomb, right? we are on top of just really living life and experiencing things together. so I think that that has helped to just kind of section out the different parts of my life. and then it's a little I know I just took on a new clinician Polyacket. She's like phenomenal too. she's available now but she's doing work and she's certified in grief. So she's right in the practice.
Tracy Stuettgen: she's in the right spot. and her whole lens is trauma.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: She does some couples work as well. and she has her substance abuse license, too. So, she's really going to be focusing on helping and supporting folks who have a loved one with a substance abuse and just the trauma and grief that can come with that, which I think is going to be really, really powerful because I think that comes into a lot of different dynamics that I have from childhood trauma and things like that that I see in my practice often. So, she's going to be a really valuable asset. she's got a huge interest in sematic work as well,…
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Tracy Stuettgen: which I think is so I'm just really jazzed to be able to kind of offer that. but again, it's that balancing act of being able to support her while I'm supporting the business,…
00:30:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: while I'm supporting my family, all these different things. But I think some of this is also the role of a lot of people, especially in private practice, you have kids, too. So, how do you kind of balance that for yourself, too?
Tracy Stuettgen: Perfect.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a continual work in progress, both my kids are in school now and that seems easier in a way, but they're not at the same school, which will get easier hopefully next year. So I think just some of those things of looking at this aspect of it is manageable for now and for now and we'll adjust and how do we gather resources and how do we sort of check in. I agree with I try and do it similarly when I'm in a role I'm actually in that role. So when I'm doing therapy like that's where I'm at.
Jeremy Schumacher: when I'm home, I'm trying to, do bedtime stories and those types of things. So it's I don't know, Living that experiential life.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: I think so many therapists who work with trauma ends up leaning towards those grounding experiences, those experiential based things and…
Tracy Stuettgen: Mhm. For sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: those body based things. So you mentioned it and your other clinician working with it these sematic experiences I think when we're working with trauma it just sort of becomes ingrained in what we do and it's the water we swim in to be like hey how's your system what's going on for your regulation and…
Tracy Stuettgen: For I think it's not perfect though.
Jeremy Schumacher: when we do that all day with clients it's hard to not be aware of that in our own process.
Tracy Stuettgen: I think that's the big thing I try to take that illusion away from therapists. we're all figuring it out as we go, but we're trying our best.
Jeremy Schumacher: No.
Tracy Stuettgen: And I like what you said, too, everything's kind of a season. and it's kind of figuring out what's the coping for this season and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: once our kitchen project is done, right, it'll be the next season of being able to kind of lean into other things, but also that awareness of okay, my body is not okay,
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: And one thing my experience working in healthcare has taught me is when my body is not okay from stress,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Right. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: which I don't think that's a good thing, but at least I have that knowledge now of …
Tracy Stuettgen: okay, I know if I get tightness in my chest or if I feel like I can't take a deep breath, I can't get all the way down into my lungs,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Wait. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: something needs to shift, I need a night for myself, I need to lean to some yoga, I need to have a bath, I need to kind of do the things just to kind of reeregulate I would if I feel like I'm coming down with a cold. Mhm. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: And I make that analogy for folks a lot too. when you're stressed to a certain degree, it's like having the flu. we take off and we move into rest and recovery and we hydrate and we cozy up and we have our comfort foods of chicken noodle soup or whatever that looks like. And that's what's going on in your body, too. It's just a different part of your body that is bearing the symptoms. But a continual chronic stress, that's where it's at. I think the election cycle is one of those things where so many people are culturally having a shared experience that's draining in a lot of ways and…
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: how do we do grounding from there? How do we sort of build community and…
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah. Yeah,…
Tracy Stuettgen: for how's the last week or…
Jeremy Schumacher: connect but also take care of ourselves before we try to take care of everyone else?
Tracy Stuettgen: two been for you with the election side as a therapist? I feel like I see all these funny memes of therapists right now. Yep.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I think some of my clients we spend most of the session if not all of a session on it. one of my clients kind of chuckled and he was just condolences about that and then we moved on and it was a nice acknowledgement but their life is still going on and that's what they wanted to talk about. So, yeah, I think it's been some of those cultural experiences…
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah. Mhm.
Jeremy Schumacher: where it is not just, clients come in and talk about their lives, this is what's going on with their kids, with their partner, with their job, stress, whatever.
Tracy Stuettgen: Great. Right.
Jeremy Schumacher: And it's weird. we don't have all of that many cultural experiences where most of your clients are coming in with a similar experience. So, I think that's the big shift for me anyway. this past couple of weeks has been like, " I'm having the same conversation over and over again, which isn't bad or wrong or anything. It's just different because usually we don't have these things that are culturally relevant." the Olympics. I might have a client who's super into Game of Thrones.
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah, for sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: I might like,…
Tracy Stuettgen: And hitting in.
00:35:00
Jeremy Schumacher: they're different people doing different things.
Tracy Stuettgen: Go ahead.
Jeremy Schumacher: And this is one of those experiences that I think is hitting most people.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: Right. Some people don't get it right.
Jeremy Schumacher: I was going to say not most people because,…
Tracy Stuettgen: Right. Right. Right. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: a third of the voting population didn't vote.
Tracy Stuettgen: No, it's been an interesting dynamic.
Jeremy Schumacher: So some people out there are just not engaged.
Tracy Stuettgen: I don't know 2016 was a different experience. I feel like it was way the days after that were just like I don't even know I remember them from my own response and reaction but also just how present that was in mine. And I've been kind of surprised that for some people it's been the whole session, but for some people it's something where it's like, here's this thing and that's what's happening and…
Tracy Stuettgen: I have this other thing that we're really in the midst of processing and we can't take too far away from a systemic perspective, here's how that's kind of fueling kind of all of this too and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: and a little more activating this week as well. So it's been interesting.
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think just a lot of people stayed up really late for the election and we have new research that suggests our brain still dealing with our sleep patterns from two weeks ago. Not just how much sleep did you get last night but how much has your body been able to rest and recover over the past sort of trend of time. And so yeah I think just broadening that vision on how we look at that. It's not just in the past 24 hours,…
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: how's your health and being been? But how have the past couple weeks been because there's a cumulative nature to some of this. we had such a good landing point and now you're frozen again.
Tracy Stuettgen: to I here.
Tracy Stuettgen: Am I good now?
Jeremy Schumacher: You're good.
Tracy Stuettgen: Am I okay? but yeah, I think one of the things that I did get from Marquette that I thought was really important was kind of this social justice realm of things. So, I think I've just been, touched by I don't know the indirect message that the election has kind of sent to a lot of folks,…
Jeremy Schumacher: 
Tracy Stuettgen: especially in the trauma realm of things and what they're working through.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: So, I think that's been kind of a complexity of this election cycle. that I think I don't know something that I don't feel like has been as present in previous years as well.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: But it's like adding a layer to a work.
Jeremy Schumacher: And I work with religious trauma, so the cristofascist side of things is very triggering for people who grew up in cultlike surroundings or grew up in, Christian nationalism or fundamentalist religions in some form or fashion. So, a lot of space and grace right now as I think people are just highly triggered and…
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: and it's that complex PTSD. It's not just here's the trigger. It's sort of like in the air there's a bunch of triggers. We're not going to tease out which thing triggered what, but we're just going to work on soothing the system. And when we amp up, which is going to happen, how do we sort of come back down?
Tracy Stuettgen: Yeah. Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: I love that you offer that. I think that's such a invaluable resource to have in the community for working through that religious trauma piece. Yeah. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Not super popular in the Midwest still. I think people need it, but right, I think just culturally it's still the defaults.
Tracy Stuettgen: Yes. For sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: Tracy, if people want to learn more about your work or what you're doing or they want to work with you, Where do they go? Yeah.
Tracy Stuettgen: So, they can come to The website's firefly counseling mkke.com. And I know I'm on Instagram as well.
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Tracy Stuettgen: I am not great at social media, so it gets updated when there's things to be updated about, but otherwise it gets cast aside. But, I believe the handle is Firefly Counseling MK for that on Instagram, and Facebook as well. I know Pie's currently accepting new clients.
Tracy Stuettgen: She's the new clinician. Her bio is up on the website, so people can check her out there. she's accepting clients and she's taking 15-minute consults so people can meet a little bit beforehand to really see if it's a good fit before they're kind of leaning into therapy. same for me. I have the 15-minute console. I think that's an important part of the therapy dynamic. so that's all available through the website.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, right.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, for sure.
Tracy Stuettgen: I do like online scheduling to make it as easy as possible…
Tracy Stuettgen: because that's what I appreciate when I'm in the seat of being the client.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. …
Jeremy Schumacher: as a millennial,…
Tracy Stuettgen: 
Jeremy Schumacher: just text me. I don't want to talk on the phone.
Tracy Stuettgen: Right. I don't know…
Tracy Stuettgen: what that is, but that's a thing.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, that's definitely a thing. all right, Tracy, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on and chat.
00:40:00
Tracy Stuettgen: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
Jeremy Schumacher: And to all our wonderful listeners, thanks for tuning in again this week. We'll be back next week with another new episode. Take care, everyone.
Meeting ended after 00:40:12 👋
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