Your Therapist Needs Therapy 85 - A Grounding Conversation with Lilly Risch

This week Jeremy is joined by returning guest Lilly Risch to talk about navigating tumultuous political and social climates while maintaining personal and professional balance. They discuss the challenges of managing emotional energy as therapists and the importance of building community, staying grounded, and advocating for shared values like social justice and inclusivity. The episode emphasizes the role of therapy as inherently political and provides actionable insights for fostering resilience through self-care, community connection, and boundary-setting.

To learn more about Lilly and her work, head over to www.forwardhealingtherapy.com or check out her socials @forward.healing.therapy

If you're a therapist who is interested in politicizing their practice, check out Jennifer Mullan's book Decolonizing Therapy.  

Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube. 

Head over to Patreon to support the show, or you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well!

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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.

If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.

Transcript

Your Therapist Needs Therapy - Lilly Risch 2.0 - 2025/01/30 08:58 CST - Transcript

Attendees

Jeremy Schumacher, Lilly Risch

Transcript

Jeremy Schumacher: Hello and welcome to another edition of Your Therapist Needs Therapy. Perhaps now more than ever, your therapist needs therapy. I'm your host,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Jeremy Schumacher. I am joined today by returning guest Lily Ris from Forward Healing Therapy. Lily was one of my first 10 episodes for sure.

Lilly Risch: Yeah. Yes.

Lilly Risch: Hello. Good morning. It's great to be on Absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: It's been a minute. Lily practices in the Milwaukee area as well, so she and I see each other somewhat regularly.

Jeremy Schumacher: So, it's not like it's been over a year since she and I have talked, but it's been over a year since she's been on the podcast. She was graceful enough to join me this morning when I was like, "Hey, let's talk about how to survive in these tumultuous times." And Lily was like, "Yes, let's talk about that." So, Lily, thank you so much for joining me today.

Lilly Risch: A protected 30 minutes or however long we're going to talk today to just talk and process. I am in.

Jeremy Schumacher: And really that's…

Jeremy Schumacher: what we have to do as spaceholders and professionals right now. this is stuff we're talking about with our clients, but these are things that we have to implement in our own lives as well.

Lilly Risch: Yes. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: Because I don't feel like if we don't have that space that it comes into the therapy room, Right.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, for sure.

Lilly Risch: Because we are humans kind of in a human connection with our clients.  And so sometimes there's this feeling, I don't know if you feel like this, Jeremy, but sometimes there's this feeling like a client's bringing something up that really resonates with me and I feel my own stuff coming in and I'm like, " Hold back, Lily. Life's not about you in here," Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: are coming in stressed concerned about family members being deported, concerned about what lists they may be on that will be next on the administration's list. I've been sort of saying it's not even existential dread at this point. It's just sort of reality and it's dreadful. Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: of the new administration's kind of really concerning and agenda. How have you been navigating what's been coming up for you? Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: For me, I've had to practice what I preach, which is the limit my focus.

Jeremy Schumacher: knowing this is a tactic amongst propagandists everywhere is this large sort of fire hose of information. They're going to throw a lot at people, try and overwhelm the system and sneak three or four really important things which knowing Trump is enriching himself like that that's the only thing he cares about in this presidency. so for me that's been grounding in working with folks who are on the ground…

Lilly Risch: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: who are in the community who can help people. I'm a white male so deportation's not a huge concern of mine but that is a concern for people in the community and folks that I work with. accumulating those resources and getting those connections going for folks who need to be in those connections.

Jeremy Schumacher: and then I am a part of the LGBTQ plus community, connecting with those folks and sort of prepping and planning for what might be coming next. I care deeply about climate change. I care deeply about a lot of what is under attack in this agenda. But I've sort of had to for myself try and focus on those two things right now as they seem most pressing and I just don't have a ton of bandwidth for 40 other topics right now.  Yeah.

Lilly Risch: media a lot in the last two days. I think last week didn't I took a long break and then this week I've been kind of diving in which good and bad right upated super updated today or at least yesterday it's hard to know what you get updated on right …

Lilly Risch: but really looking at somebody was sharing about there are so many things kind of that are being hit right now and really working on niching down what is…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: what is your focus in that? So, I was thinking that really resonates with me today how you said that about really working on focusing what is it that I'm going to spend my energy in because we only have a limited amount of it.

00:05:00

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think for clients again it turns and for us as therapists too, but what I've been processing with clients a lot is it just becomes so overwhelming so quickly that people sort of are dissociating and not putting their energy towards anything which feels very defeist. And so trying to really what do you need to stay informed on? What are you passionate about?

Jeremy Schumacher: what might you actually be able to take action on has been a good focal point for a lot of folks to not feel just sort of overwhelmed in the dread of it all. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: So it is so devastating, the blatant kind of attacks, right, on people that we love and care about on even my marriage and myself, right, as a queer person. having a son of color as well, I think and I have a lot of privileges that a lot of other groups and people don't and I recognize that. but it is just incredibly devastating and I think dread is a good word, but I think, in the therapeutic space it's hard to kind of work with my clients and…

Lilly Risch: our clients on how do you stay above it, How do you not get into the dread and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Right. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: then you can't show up in your day precious?

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think part of what I talk a lot about in therapy anyways in the best of times is resource management. And like you said, energy is not necessarily finite, but we need to replenish it. It does run out.

Lilly Risch: It's precious.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. and…

Lilly Risch: I don't know if you like,…

Jeremy Schumacher: and time is the other resource that people really are short on.

Lilly Risch: but I do. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And so trying to again protect your energy.

Jeremy Schumacher: I think there a lot of people struggled even during, a Biden administration to find that balance of I'm well informed and also not overwhelmed. that's hard and I think it's again on purpose. It's intentional. It's part of…

Jeremy Schumacher: how propaganda works to overwhelm the system right now. But that's definitely taxing a lot of people's skill set on where your resources going, how much energy do you have for this doom scrolling for an hour before bed is probably not a good use of your time. Yep.

Lilly Risch: right, right?

Lilly Risch: Yeah. It's such it's such a hard balance because I was talking to, somebody that I know in healthcare and I was like this week, especially with this whiplash of funding is frozen, funding isn't frozen. I work with compensation funding and I'm like does that mean that funding is going to be impacted for clients that we see because that's federal funding, right? And that's just a piece of what I do. But I'm thinking about my friends in healthcare. And so I sent a text out I kind of really just fell into the panic of it and was federal funding is frozen and just asked her and she was like wait what I haven't been paying attention to the news like you said that's a good coping strategy Lily.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Lilly Risch: I'm like just kidding pay attention this week and then the next day it's not  And so it's just so hard to know what is going to be impacted and what is it that we have to pay attention to without kind of falling into the crisis of it all. And I do completely recognize that I did a little bit of slipping into that this week and really had to kind of ground myself and check myself with hold up focus on your day, focus on what's going on now.

Lilly Risch: don't kind of spiral into all of it. So, I don't know if you've exper that too in the last week, but I was there yesterday.

Jeremy Schumacher: It and flows for sure. it's one of those things where I think another sort of mantra I've adopted has been like it's going to be a marathon, not a sprint. Especially for those of us…

Lilly Risch: I love it.

Jeremy Schumacher: who have privilege, for those of us who are not facing deportation, who are unlikely to be sent to Guantanamo Bay anytime soon. who have some of that space need to have our communities need to be investing in ourselves. not burying our heads in the sand, but to understand that some of this stuff will get fought in court.

Jeremy Schumacher: some of this stuff we will need to be calling and writing our representatives three, four, five months from now, not just today.

00:10:00

Jeremy Schumacher: And so hydrating, trying to keep our sleep hygiene some of that stuff has been the messaging. I see people who are in crisis and I also see people who do come to me with a lot of privilege and are sort of like what do I do? I'm not directly affected, but obviously I care. And so I think it's trying to figure out realistically…

Lilly Risch: Right. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: where can we put some of that energy in a way where we're not just in this burnout cycle. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: 

Lilly Risch: Absolutely. So there's been something that I've just been thinking about if it's okay if I kind of just bring up in terms of the in term and I think this is a kind of conversation that happens with some therapists that are on social media in talking about therapy being political,  or this conversation of I think sometimes when I bring up right issues that kind of are coming up now with the current administration somebody might say to me I don't like to talk about politics and so for me as a business owner as well right I have a group practice and I do want people to feel comfortable in my space

Lilly Risch: I also have a masters in social work and we have a very clear code of ethics that says we will advocate for social justice, We will respect the dignity and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Right. Yeah,…

Lilly Risch: worth of each person. so I just wanted to bring it up because I think it's been interesting to just kind of think about without judging therapists, but thinking about how do we hold this space of advocating and also kind of running a business and having the com this conversation, right?  But what do you think

Jeremy Schumacher: I think therapy is political.

Jeremy Schumacher: Think the profession is I think again the idea that some of us may choose not to take insurance and someone may be picking a therapist because it's all they can afford and they have Medicaid and so that really limits who they can see. it's already political before people come into our office.

Lilly Risch: Hey, right. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Some clients may not want to talk politics and again as a therapist I'm going to respect that. I'm not pushing an agenda. I'm not trying to get them to agree with me politically, but to act like politics isn't affecting the process or isn't already in the room before we begin, I think is disingenuous. and I'm as owning my own practice, I tend to be pretty political. my stuff's out there like I'm posting about punching Nazis in the face.

Lilly Risch: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: That's…

Lilly Risch: Yeah. Correct.

Jeremy Schumacher: I am. That's who I'm working with.

Jeremy Schumacher: If you're, defending someone who owns a Nazi website and speaks at Nazi rallies and does a Nazi salute, we're probably not a good fit. So, don't work with me. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: No, I'm completely with you and I am completely aligned with what you're saying and having two therapists that are in my group practice now.  What I said, let's do is in the fall we kind of had a staff meeting and talked about values because I think there I'm really clear and I have therapists that we have shared values right and I'm going to bring on therapists in my practice that have shared values right in terms of we are going to advocate for our clients who are trans we are going to advocate for our clients as much as we can even though there  are times that we can't see somebody because they don't have the financial privilege to be able to pay for it, right?

Lilly Risch: It's just such a tricky and complex conversation but at the end of the day I will focus on values and what's happening is very clearly what's happening politically is completely against right those shared values and that's where you said it does become political and we go ahead  Yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: have a big opinion of, I don't have a big head about it, but as business owners, our voice does matter somewhat. I obviously Costco saying we're keeping DEI, it's important, and we need it to be a successful business gets headlines in a way that solo practitioner Jeremy Schumacher thinks Nazis are bad. is never going to No one's reporting on that. but I think again for people who are looking for safe spaces for people who are part of those marginalized communities like they want to work with someone who is values aligned with them. And so it's not just practicing what we preach and having our community be aligned but also helping clients who might struggle to find a therapist they align with know hey this is a safe space.

00:15:00

Jeremy Schumacher: even if you can't work with me for some reason, let me help you find someone who can or here's my social media, here's my YouTube, here's my podcast. there are other ways that I can work with you or…

Lilly Risch: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: connect with you even if you can't, see me in the office.

Lilly Risch: What you just said I don't know if you felt like this,…

Lilly Risch: but I've sort of also felt like in this state of shock this week of what you just said, Nazis are bad. Why are we arguing about that? why is this even a conversation or an argument that Nazis are bad?

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: Conf it feels very confusing right I think to a lot of people where especially having somebody who was convicted of sexual offenses in power and my working with a lot of people who are survivors of sexual abuse that of itself is completely minimizing confusing disorienting to survivors experience

Lilly Risch: erience. So yeah, that I've felt that even this week of being wait what is happening? Why are we having it questioning yourself in a way because these people right?

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think that's part of where therapy is political. for my own sanity, I've needed to post to say some things out loud just to be like,…

Lilly Risch: Yes. Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: hey, just so we're clear, there's lots about Elon Musk being a Nazi before the salute, but that is indefensible at this point. I'm not interested in engaging in dialogue with anyone who wants to debate that for my own sanity because, I saw January 6th as an insurrection. I watched it happen live. I don't need to debate that with anyone. that's not a good use of my time or energy. and it's crazym.

Jeremy Schumacher: So, I think there's some for me personally,…

Lilly Risch: completely. It's this whole name it to tame it.

Jeremy Schumacher: there's been utility to post and comment on some of these things. Just I'm a verbal processor, so to have something out loud or written in concrete words, not an abstract thought, helps me sort of solidify some of those thoughts just be like, "Hey, yeah, Nazis are bad. We should not tolerate them.

Lilly Risch: I love Dan Seagull's, what he talks about in terms of and for those of you who don't know, Dan Seagull writes some I think, great parenting books. No drama discipline. he just wrote one about adolescent. I haven't read that. I don't know if you have, Jeremy. but he talked about name it to tame it. So when kids are having kind of a lot of emotions or kind of what he calls downstairs brain and lyic system, lower part of emotional brain, or we could call it and kind of you see your child like I saw my six-year-old have a meltdown on the floor this morning,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yes.

Lilly Risch: You have to kind of work on regulating first and then naming it to tame it. So you're really upset because you want to wear different pants and I said no because we're late for school. This literally happened this morning.  I don't know if you will help calm somebody down, To have them really understand, okay, this is what's happening in my emotional brain versus you're not upset, it's not a big deal, stop it, so I think of that when especially trauma survivors are having reactions or being triggered by somebody in being elected in a position of power who has, like I said, felonies and abused. I'm just talking about the sexual abuse piece of it, to be able to name it, to tame it as in no, your nervous system, you are actually feeling something that is real.

Lilly Risch: this person has hurt women. This person is in a position of power. This feels bad, right? You feel bad because this is bad. so yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot this week and how sometimes we have to kind of name it and say it as it is to really validate people's experience.

Lilly Risch: That's I think exactly what you're doing. Yep. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And …

Jeremy Schumacher: I work with religious trauma and so a lot of project 2025 is written by the Heritage Foundation, right-wing political think tank. and so a lot of ex-church folks that I work with, this feels a lot like being at a really bad a church that has that cult of personality leader where the leaders doing bad things and people are lining up to protect the leader instead of protecting the victims.

00:20:00

Lilly Risch: Yeah. Yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: This is how it plays out in abuse scandals in churches everywhere. and so for a lot of those people right, it's triggering.

Jeremy Schumacher: And when we talk about complex PTSD, it isn't any one single singular trigger. It's sort of an environment of triggers and that can be really hard to navigate. and one of the things that I was excited to talk with you about this morning because you're part of my community, but also I think that community piece is really important and for some of our clients where I think it's great to connect with community. Hey, spend your energy in your community. But for folks who don't have community or whose communities are being affected or are less available than they used to be, that's sort of I would say step one still is …

Jeremy Schumacher: then let's build more communities, let's find more communities, let's connect to more communities. It is hard to get through tough times when you're on an island.

Lilly Risch: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Lilly Risch: There's so much P and that is exactly why I said yeah let's do this podcast today Jeremy because I was like cuz you're part of my community and I was like I need to connect with people right who are kind of navigating this space of showing up in a stable right way and then having days like I had yesterday of a little bit of spiral right and…

Jeremy Schumacher: right? Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: then getting out of it and being okay like you said hydrate texting I've texted my friends so are we staying hydrated friends are weated right but I don't know if you saw that video of the carolling of the singing like CIA outside of one of in DC and then I responded to it and I was like I that car I think that singing together and…

Lilly Risch: carolling is such a healing way to connect with others and it was just like a beautiful togetherness of people so I would love to see something like that in Milwaukee at some point.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yes.

Lilly Risch: Be really cool.

Jeremy Schumacher: And again, some of this connect to your community, have joy. there. It sounds almost cliche to say that's part of resisting fascism, but again as a white person like the fascism I experience is different than someone who's, a black or brown person in America who's been like, " yeah, we've been a fascist police state for a long time. that's all I've ever known."

Jeremy Schumacher: and to still try and learn from those other cultures, learning from indigenous cultures who are dancing and having pows and have ritual around grief and loss and the struggle and…

Lilly Risch: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: Love it.

Jeremy Schumacher: and so trying to learn again hey white people we don't need to figure this Other cultures have been doing this for a long time better than we have.

Lilly Risch: 

Lilly Risch: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. …

Jeremy Schumacher: But it…

Lilly Risch: yes. Absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: but I think it's one of those things where gives me that grounds me in a way to say there's still utility and hope and joy and having fun and putting energy towards some of that. Again, not in a barrier head sort of way, but that is still what our life is about. That's still where we get meaning.

Lilly Risch: And that is also what I've brought into my parenting as well because I don't know how and we haven't talked about this a lot in the podcast but just to kind of name it for the parents out there. I do as a parent myself feel like it's a tricky space as well to show up for your kids in this space where I think about their future and I know that's what parents are thinking about,  but still trying to of course hold hope for them and their generation and believe in them and you said, find that joy and find that togetherness and dance in the kitchen with them and go on hikes with them and whatever whatever it kind of looks like for us. But it can be a tricky space to hold sometimes.

Jeremy Schumacher: We're not talking politics for the most part, sometimes have to explain things that are said at home that we maybe don't say at school. …

Lilly Risch: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: but they want to talk about swim lessons. They want to talk about what they made in their art class. that's their daily life. That's their experience. And so trying to take care of myself enough to have energy to show up and meet them where they're at without bringing the dread along with it. I think that's again really helpful. I had I don't know talking about my own childhood is there were issues but my experience was fairly idyllic and right cuz I didn't know we were poor. I didn't know a lot of the things that my parents were struggling with. I played with my Legos.

00:25:00

Jeremy Schumacher: I played with my siblings. So, trying to hold space for a lot of that stuff has been helpful for sure for me as a parent to be like, "Hey, I'm going to learn from my kids instead of thinking I need to have answers right now.

Lilly Risch: Yeah, absolutely.

Lilly Risch: Yeah. it's not in obviously conversation. I think it's just sometimes being a big feeler myself, It's hard. I always need to put my stuff aside, right, with the kids and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: with the clients and all of that. So, that's why it's just so important to have spaces like this to just be able to feel it together, and name it together. Mhm. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think there's no secret recipe. There's no special sauce. we as therapists don't have our s*** together either. We're dealing with our kids having breakdowns in the morning.

Jeremy Schumacher: We're breaking our own rules about staying off social media and all that stuff This is not an easy or fun time. no one's getting it right quote unquote right all the time.

Lilly Risch: Absolutely. And it's a shared experience with our clients just COVID for example, Where versus the experiences clients come in with…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yep.

Lilly Risch: where we haven't experienced it we're out of it. maybe we can relate in a way, but this is their childhood, their life, their trauma, what they've experienced versus we're going through it together. And so I will name that to clients and say this is a shared experience and I'm also kind of navigating it. And if they ask how I'm navigating, I'll share, …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: and kind of bring Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Do you just say it's a shared experience or…

Jeremy Schumacher: do you have a term or a phrase you like to use?

Lilly Risch: Yeah, I mean I think I do say it's a shared experience and…

Lilly Risch: I think people obviously know that and people do I'm really open about my identity to my clients because it's really important that I feel emotionally safe in the room right so I'm o your identity back to my clients so some of them might say I'm thinking about you and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. right?

Lilly Risch: your family or just thinking that you might be impacted and I say thank you that means a lot and that I have my own support system and my supports right because I think a lot a lot of people just feel like whether I have to care right I have to take care of you and so naming that that's not I have people that help me and take care of me I have my own therapist I have community my family supports me …

Jeremy Schumacher: Right. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: but just really naming like I'm experiencing it too and this is what I've been thinking about if they ask. How about you? Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. I talk a lot about again just because of some of the nature of my work with religious trauma we talk about moral injury and then sort of have shifted that to be wound or a cultural injury that right we're all experiencing simultaneously and yeah it is different co is a very recent example I see a lot of millennials because I'm a millennial and so we talk about 911 or we talk

Jeremy Schumacher: about Coline as some of those other things that everybody kind of went through at the same time and had to process it in real time so I think that that's helpful to people to have a framework to you said name it and…

Jeremy Schumacher: kind of be able to say here's how I got through this other horrible thing that everyone went through in real Yeah,…

Lilly Risch: Yeah, absolutely.

Lilly Risch: Absolutely. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: it is. I mean to name it just very f*****.

Lilly Risch: It's very f*****. Why are we even arguing about if human rights? Why is there even an argument that Nazis are bad or Nazis aren't bad or who? it's just f*****. And it's scary.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: Really scary.

Jeremy Schumacher: So again, there's no landing place that I think there's no way for me to put a bow on this episode and be and that's our nice hopeful take-home other than to say yeah, we have to have community in order to resist. that's…

00:30:00

Lilly Risch: Yes. Yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: how we get through this is together of we've had s* governments before. There have been fascist regimes before. And that's how you get through it.

Lilly Risch: Absolutely. and finding your community and it is out there I think whether or not whether you can't find it in person a lot of online spaces and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: I don't know if you have any off the top of your head but I think even just meetups I think that that is something that we can do right now that we couldn't do we could do online but not in person is really connect in person whatever it is it's not that we have to talk about this.

Lilly Risch: It's even that we can just go grab coffee at the lake or whatever. so yeah. Yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. …

Jeremy Schumacher: and again some of the joy go to a Bucks game if that's your jam, do some of those things. Go see a concert. I agree. I think the online spaces are really wonderful and for me personally my focus has really shifted back to in person just because I find I need that more right now. and that's time in nature, but also shared experiences. I'm a sports person, so something like a sports game or a competition that I can participate in, those things that gives me an hour or two where my brain doesn't feel so on fire. And that's nice. That has utility. That's useful.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I experienced that anyway just being a neurode divergent person but yeah so yeah you said that community is out there again whether it's a musical artist that you enjoy try and…

Lilly Risch: He I say scrambled it.

Jeremy Schumacher: them connect with other people in that community who also enjoy that thing I know a lot of communities online fans of podcasts and go join a discord Go. Discord is weird and it's clunky and if you're not techsavvy, it seems weird. but you can figure it out.

Lilly Risch: Yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: Go on Reddit and have an anonymous account. do some of this stuff where you don't have to participate with the fascist social media companies and connect with your community. we can't be siloed because a lot of people own a lot of things and make it awful.

Lilly Risch: And you can talk about this in therapy,…

Lilly Risch: too, just to name that.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yes, for sure.

Lilly Risch: I've been checking in right with people, clients, but also think I don't know, maybe there's a sense sometimes can I talk to you about this, right? And absolutely,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: you can talk to your therapist about what is going on in the world and how you're feeling about it. And if that's hard for you, then kind of notice what the therapeutic space feels I'm not saying get a new therapist, but just be curious about that, Be curious about…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. You might need to get a new therapist.

Lilly Risch: why is it that I feel like I can't talk about this with my therapist.

Jeremy Schumacher: That is a potential outcome.

Lilly Risch: That is potential. Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: But yes, therapists are part of the community and we want to be again like we're in this profession…

Jeremy Schumacher: because it is meaningful to us to hold space for people.

Lilly Risch: And just to go back to mo we do abide by certain kind of code of ethics and…

Lilly Risch: values right in our profession different looking from social worker to LPC…

Lilly Risch: and they're very much aligned I think especially when we're talking about things like gender affirming care right what the me professional community says and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: what are so that is something to I think be curious about too if you don't feel like you have a therapeutic space that is supportive of your identity then that's something to really do your research on and find a therap where you are affirmed and you are supported Yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And again, some of that might need to be online spaces. I know for religious trauma, I think there's one person out in Madison right now who also works with religious trauma, but for a while I was the only person in the state who had that specialty. go online,…

Lilly Risch: Yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: find a support group, find peer connection. talk to your therapist, yes, but also find your peers, build your community that way.

Lilly Risch: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I Me too.

Jeremy Schumacher: This has been grounding. And again, I think trying to model we as therapists are people too, but also these conversations aren't necessarily there's no resolution and I feel more grounded by having had the conversation.

00:35:00

Lilly Risch: That's the resolution for us, it's not like we…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly Risch: how can we wrap this up in a nice little bow,

Jeremy Schumacher: We're not overthrowing the government,…

Jeremy Schumacher: but we are creating space and investing our own energy to get through the marathon of it.

Lilly Risch: It's incredibly grounding to talk to you and…

Lilly Risch: I just really appreciate how you show up and you being a part of my community and kind of having this holding space for me today. I really appreciate it, Jeremy. I will always do it…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I appreciate you on short notice being like, "Yes, let's process together. yes.

Lilly Risch: if I have the time.

Jeremy Schumacher: So if people want to learn more about you, if people want to work with you, they want to check out some of the clinicians. The last time you're on the podcast, it was just So you've added some clinicians since then. If people want to learn about your practice, learn about who you've got in your community, where do they go? How do they find you?

Lilly Risch: Forwardhealing theapy.com. or you can email me directly at hello@forwardhealing theapy.com. we work with adults, we do art therapy, we have a therapist here, Josie, that does art therapy and EMDR. And then we have a therapist that works with younger kids and does diatic attachment based therapy and she works with kind of infant mental health as well. And that's Megan. So, you can email me, like I said, you can go to our website and then on Instagram,…

Lilly Risch: I'm forward.healing.apy.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yes,…

Jeremy Schumacher: we will have links in the show notes so you can drop down,…

Lilly Risch: Yeah, perfect.

Jeremy Schumacher: however you're listening to this podcast, drop down in the show notes and you'll find some links there. Lily, thanks.

Lilly Risch: Thanks so much for having me, Jeremy.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. And to all our wonderful listeners, thanks for tuning in again this week. We'll be back next week with another new episode. Take care, everyone.