Your Therapist Needs Therapy 102 - The System Wasn’t Made For Us with Sara Rahn

In this episode of Your Therapist Needs Therapy, Jeremy Schumacher interviews Sara Rahn, a Milwaukee-based trauma therapist and advocate for disability representation in mental health care. Sara shares her personal journey into the field, shaped by her experiences as both a disabled person and a clinician, highlighting the lack of disability awareness in training and practice, and the toll of working within under-resourced systems. The conversation touches on the evolving nature of therapist identity, the importance of community and self-care, and the need for collective resistance in a time of increasing political and systemic threats.

You can find more about Sara and her practice at Compassionate Healing and give her a follow on Instagram!

As always, Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube. To show your love for the show you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well! None of my online work would be possible without my media maven Kenny, so check out their work as well at kenlingdesign.com

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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.

If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.

Transcript

Your Therapist Needs Therapy - Sara Rahn - 2025/06/04 12:59 CDT - Transcript

Attendees

Jeremy Schumacher, Sara Rahn

Transcript

Jeremy Schumacher: Hello and welcome to another edition of Your Therapist Needs Therapy, the podcast where two mental health professionals talk about mental health journey and…

Sara Rahn: Thank you.

Jeremy Schumacher: how they navigate mental wellness while working in the mental health field. I'm your host Jeremy Schumacher, licensed marriage and family therapist. Today I am back with another local Milwaukee therapist. Always trying to highlight good practitioners in the local area. Milwaukee gets a bad rap nationally, so I like to talk it's my hometown and I like to talk about awesome professionals who are doing work in the area. So today I am joined by Sarah Ron from Compassionate Healing.

Jeremy Schumacher: Sarah, thanks for joining me today.

Jeremy Schumacher: Sarah, I start every episode with the same question, which how is it that you came to be working in the mental health field? Sure.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. …

Sara Rahn: It's funny. I started undergrad. I was actually a teacher, going for school. Excuse I have a little cold, too. I cough every now and then. I was going to school to, teach. And then maybe second semester in, I kind of realized I don't super like children. I know. so then I met with the guidance counselor and she said you have enough credits to qualify for the social work. I was like social workers I like them. So did my undergrad in social work for a while in the geriatric field and…

Sara Rahn: then grad school I kind of was like I'm not done so what should I do? Decided to pursue my LPC. it kind of went off from there.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. What was sort of the messaging that you grew up with around mental health?

Jeremy Schumacher: Was that something that you had ever thought about for yourself or was it, were you aware of it?

Jeremy Schumacher: Was it an option? What that look like?

Sara Rahn: 

Sara Rahn: No, not at all. And I think, growing up in the 80s and the 90s, I think we knew it, but it was scary, it was like,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: someone's crazy uncle or someone's drank, drunk aunt, but it was very taboo. It wasn't talked about. it was very not known. And I think I knew things like psychologists and doctors. it's really funny, because my mom's a truckie and my favorite Star Trek character was Dr. Troy, and I'm like, dude, she was a therapist, and no wonder I loved her. it was my calling. …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: little eight-year-old Sarah didn't know she was supposed to grow up to be a therapist because that was my favorite character. But yeah,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. it Yeah.

Sara Rahn: no, wasn't recognized when I was a kid.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think even millennials reflect on this big boom of ADHD diagnosis,…

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Not at all.

Jeremy Schumacher: but like I will say that was poorly done and b we did not have good research still at that point in a lot of these areas.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: So, yeah, certainly taboo and, regionally specific, too. the Midwest, I think, is still somewhat taboo talking about mental health. Yeah. Hence the podcast.

Jeremy Schumacher: Sarah, this doesn't come through in the podcast, but as somebody with a disability, what was sort of that experience for you and…

Jeremy Schumacher: how that maybe impacted sort of your perception or your perceived ideas of mental health as a field? Yeah.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. …

Sara Rahn: I kind of look at it as a person who's received therapy and a person who's been a practitioner of mental health. I think there's a significant lack of mental health that appreciates the disabled experience. specifically, I love therapy, right? I've been in it forever. I think it's great. I think I do it for a reason. I've straight up had therapists say things like,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Sara Rahn: "Bound to your wheelchair. I'm not tied to my wheelchair. I get out of my wheelchair at night." and then just things like, " you work?" Yes, actually, I do work. so just things like that. So, not only is that just annoying as heck to have to explain, but then things like talking about, having caregivers or having my partner have to care for me when a caregiver doesn't show up, things like that that while abled body therapists might try to understand,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: at some point they can't fully grasp the scope of what it's like to be a person, with a disability.  I would love to see more disabled therapists. I would love to see that more accessible. as a professional, I, kind of feel like I have to show up extra hard any place I work. I think I have this work ethic that's partly due because I'm like, you think I can't do it? Watch me.

00:05:00

Sara Rahn: I've had supervisors, I'll give you a quick example. I won't use any names obviously, but I was sharing with the supervisor that my mentor was the late from Jewish Family Services. Dr. Luber was also an individual in a wheelchair. He was also a brilliant man.

Sara Rahn: This man was brilliant. When I shared that this person was my mentor, their comment back to me was, " he was really disabled," First of all, the hell does that mean? what does really disabled mean?

Jeremy Schumacher: right? Yeah.

Sara Rahn: Is someone really black? Is someone really Hispanic? we would never say that in the context of anything else. that's all you saw of him. This man is brilliant. And that's literally what you took of my conversation. So, I think just combating that both from a practitioner and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: as a person who's been in mental health, I can solidly say I will unapologetically continue to show up because that's something that I really see needs to change.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. What was just sort of sticking to the chronology here, what was sort of your experience of that in grad school?

Jeremy Schumacher: I'll just say I can't think of a single…

Jeremy Schumacher: however many classes I took on multi-racial psychology and different things like that. I don't think we talked about disability once. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: No. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: I will say I do love that the neurode divergent community has kind of embraced us, I will say some of the neurode divergent folks on Instagram they've been like hey neurode diverency and disabled people s of which is awesome because I think that makes sense right you can't do traditional psychotherapy protocols for neurode divergent people just honestly I do recall I always feel like I've always been the other in every situation I've been in,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Sara Rahn: including grad school. I think it was like a grief or a death and dying class or something and I remember we're talking about terminal illnesses or something like that. And I had someone tell me once I was very hyperbolic. I'm a very sassy person. and I like to make jokes, and I made the comment to the class that

Sara Rahn: I was told I was going to die before I was 20, because I had this terminal illness." And I thought it was hilarious as hell.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: And they were mortified. And I just remember being "Really, people? you've never interacted with someone that but it dawned on me. And I'm like, what are you going to do when you have a client that comes in or a patient that comes in that has cancer? you can't sit there and just cry with them. you've got to meet them where they're at,

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: And there was definitely a lack of that being in our cultural competency or our client competency. That's not there yet.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think it's also just obviously underresarched, part of the reason it's not part of education curriculums is because there's not enough research happening around it.

Sara Rahn: Yeah, absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think part of it's not going to get better here in America. not for a bit.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: But it is interesting. I think looking at school as sort of this prep.

Jeremy Schumacher: I've talked about this with a lot of guests on the podcast that there's some of the burnout and there's some of the bad boundaries that we're taught in school to prep us for the lack of boundaries in our profession.

Sara Rahn: Yeah, sir.

Jeremy Schumacher: But I think that the lack of representation of who we are taught about which populations we learn to work with is also lack of representation in…

Sara Rahn: Yeah, sure.

Jeremy Schumacher: who we're training to be therapists.

Sara Rahn: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And that marginalized communities were not learning about the uniqueness of what might affect their mental health and also not having classes with them or not seeing them as professionals. Mhm. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: I mean, and as you said that, Jeremy, the first thing that came to mind is, I mean, I worked full-time when I was in grad school. I remember going to classes 5 to 10:30 at night doing my clinical and I did with the university I went to we had a residency if you will at the end and I remember squishing that on Saturday mornings so coming out with an $80,000 student loan debt,

00:10:00

Sara Rahn: …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: so we're starting off in a system that's like work your butt off But don't charge too much because you have to be accessible to everyone and you can't charge too much because how dare you're a therapist. But we're going to charge you $80,000 in student loans. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think I'm curious what your internship experience was like because that's another topic I like to talk about with a lot of folks is like we get placed in places that were not qualified to be helping people.

Jeremy Schumacher: I started at a homeless shelter and I was not qualified to be dealing with people who are chronically unhoused because I hadn't studied that. I had no experience in it and I had no research background in it.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: For my placement, it was at a time when I was moving up here from Chicago. I was working full-time in the geriatric fields. I was doing social work still.

Jeremy Schumacher: Mhm. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: My university didn't place We were responsible for finding our own placement. So, I actually postponed that semester twice. So, I was at a place where I'm like, am I even going to finish this degree? Was this a complete waste of time? I then got connected finally to Dr. Lubber.  So, I actually did my full internship at Jewish Family Services, and I'm so incredibly grateful because not only was it was outpatient psychotherapy, but he was a person with a disability. it was such great, the amount of information he gave me, not only clinically, but professionally.

Sara Rahn: I'll never forget one time I had a client that had a personality disorder and I remember so wheelchairs, we have the Cadillac of wheelchairs. They elevate up and Excuse me. And I wasn't clicking with this client. We weren't getting anywhere. And one day he asked me, he's like, " is your chair elevated when you go in there?" I was like, "What are you talking about?" And I said, "Yeah, I can't reach the doororknob," He's going he's just lower your chair. And sure enough, I lowered my chair and for some reason it was like my own little body language. this client was interpreting my chair being elevated two three inches as a more doineering aggressive body language.

Sara Rahn: When I lowered my wheelchair, he opened up to me. what other…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Right.

Sara Rahn: what other supervisor would know that besides Dr. Lubber? nobody else would know that. So, it was so cool that I got that opportunity to hear personally from him his experience.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. And to any young therapists, people in training listening, go to a program that has good internship placement. that's how you should choose your program is based on the internship placement.

Sara Rahn: My you don't know, but listen to Jeremy cuz it is so I'm not even kidding It took me literally eight months to find placement. And I literally remember being like it it was a horrible feeling.

Jeremy Schumacher: Thank you.

Sara Rahn: I was like, Did I waste all this money? Because it's so hard to find placement,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: which is ridiculous because we're essentially working for free. hey, take my time and my skills and no, you don't have to pay me.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: 

Sara Rahn: No problem. it's so weird that that's a hard thing to get. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And yeah, and I don't love that system, Obviously, I don't love interns not being paid. We're doing therapy, too. But, I'm old enough where I started before the Affordable Care Act was passed. So, I started at a low fee clinic. So, I was at a homeless shelter. The Loy low fee clinic was a good fit for me.

Sara Rahn: So yeah,…

Jeremy Schumacher: That's where the family therapy training institute was on the fifth floor. So, I was learning from all these marriage therapists before I knew that that's what I wanted to do. But stumbled backwards into that. That wasn't how I picked my program.

Jeremy Schumacher: I picked Marquette because I could live in my parents' basement and save money that way, and right I think undergrad programs don't talk about how important that piece is. because when I was in higher ed talking to students nobody told us that stuff. It's and I only learned it because I had to live through it and…

00:15:00

Sara Rahn: yeah, yeah,…

Jeremy Schumacher: lucked into something that ended up being good while also having some not so good experiences. So I think that's…

Sara Rahn: yeah. It's not.

Jeremy Schumacher: where you're going to learn. School is not where you're learning. Your internship is where you're learning.

Sara Rahn: Absolutely. Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: So you get your social work degree and then what's sort of your first foray into the field.

Sara Rahn: So, when I was still in Chicago, I started working when I was 15 years old. I kind of worked my way up at this one place. It was a long-term care rehab facility. And when I left there at 26, I was actually director of social service,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Mhm. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: I was director of the department. So I had already had departmental financial stuff under me, which was super I don't know why they trusted me with that position to be honest, so when I moved up here, fortunately, I had that under my belt. So I finished my last year of grad school. When I moved up here, I also worked in another long-term care facility. what else did I do? I was a rep for a while, so I dealt with folks that had chronic mental health issues,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: helping them manage their money. That one was fun. I worked for the Department of Corrections for a while. I did group therapy for people in the DRC. I loved that one, but it sucked my soul. I loved the clients. The guys were all great. it was the POS that I didn't Shocking. what else have I done? I did long-term, I worked for a managed Medicaid program called Irish, which is a wonderful program to keep disabled people in their homes and not in nursing homes…

Sara Rahn: because we know it fiscally makes sense to keep disabled people in their homes with family and friends. …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: And then I did intensive outpatient for a while and then the past five years I've been doing kind of working with group therapy and then recently dipping my toe into private practice. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I, talked about being local and Milwaukee here, but I also obviously have a bias towards getting private practice practitioners on because I think it is a lovely way to be in the field. and something that just, again, going back to grad school a little bit, wasn't talked about a lot in the past as a viable option.

Sara Rahn: Not at all. Yeah, absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think a lot of us are figuring it out later in our careers that wish I would have done this a long time ago.

Sara Rahn: My I read some, especially on Facebook,…

Sara Rahn: I'll read some of the people, still under supervision, right, fresh out of grad school, and they're like, " I'm starting to my private practice, still under supervision." And I'm like, wait, we could do that? I didn't know we could do that.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Mhm.

Sara Rahn: I could have done that. I could have been in private practice for 13 years now. I didn't know we could do that,

Jeremy Schumacher: Right. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Lots of time in bad agencies that could have been avoided. what sort of was for you that tipping point or the thing that got you into hey, maybe I should open my own place and do this my way.

Sara Rahn: Here's the thing, and this is something I still struggle with, and I'm sure I'll come, full circle. I definitely appreciate the need to take Medicaid. I've also started to learn that I need to value my myself and…

Sara Rahn: I need to value my skills and I need to value what I have to offer. And to be quite frank, I'm sick of, seeing 40ome clients a week and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: making 40,000 a year. And I know that sounds really selfish. I know 40,000 a year is not bad at all. I know that some people would be very grateful for that. I don't think the amount of work and education I've put into this career so far that outcome though. and also to be quite honest, I feel like I don't have the opportunity to say no to some clients and that's affecting my own mental health. I'm seeing clients that I wouldn't necessarily want to work with.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: I kind of felt like I didn't have the option to say no. Whereas in private practice, you can pick and choose who you work with.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think again that can sound bad,…

Jeremy Schumacher: but really that is for the client's benefit too, that getting a therapist who not only is wellversed in what you want to work on, but also vibes well with you makes a world of difference. We have all this research that says the therapeutic relationship is the number one predictor of good outcomes in therapy. So it's not like us selfish therapists kicking people out.

Sara Rahn: Absolutely. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: It's that like, we have learned, you've been in the field for a long time. When I started my practice, I've been in the field for a long time. we've learned who we work well with and who we don't.

00:20:00

Sara Rahn: And I kind of feel like my,…

Sara Rahn: my profession doesn't have to also be how I give back to the world. they're not one and the same. I can still go to work and…

Sara Rahn: still volunteer somewhere else. I kind of feel like therapists get pushed into this corner of you're a dogooder,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: so do good. No, you can't make money. No, you can't have regulations. You can't have boundaries. Why? Because I went to school That's kind of and I feel like that's why we have burnout in this field because we're not given the opportunity to say no I don't want to work with this population.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Right.

Sara Rahn: Yes, I want to actually charge 150 a session. And that's okay. we can exercise the ability to give back in different ways. And I'm finally getting to a place where I'm okay with that. And my professional career doesn't have to be that aspect of my giving back anymore or…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: in different ways.

Jeremy Schumacher: I would guess I don't know.

Jeremy Schumacher: I'm guessing it's an educated guess that your time working for Department of Corrections like it it is a recipe for burnout for us as spaceholders to spend a long time in a broken system that we aren't in charge of.

Sara Rahn: I can't even begin to tell you. my god.

Jeremy Schumacher: And so this idea of us we're bleeding hearts so we should not charge a lot or we should take every client.

Sara Rahn: Right. Right.

Jeremy Schumacher: It's like no that's not up to us.

Jeremy Schumacher: That's this broken system that we don't have enough providers for people…

Sara Rahn: Right. Right.

Jeremy Schumacher: who need care. Not but that's teachers, that's nurses, anybody who had to work through COVID shutdown or…

Sara Rahn: Absolutely. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: essential workers that we pay really poorly and…

Sara Rahn: Our responsibility. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: don't have benefits for, it can't be the individuals who are operating under the broken system who are in charge of fixing the broken system. Yeah. And that's where burnout comes in is this thing that isn't under your control that you're having to deal with that's impacting our work. that's why I don't take insurance, that's not ethically where I would like to be. And taking insurance as a marriage therapist means I have claims get denied. I have limited sessions that I get and that's not how I can best help my client.

Sara Rahn: You have to get a diagnosis. You have to, forge notes over.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. All the things.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And spend time talking to somebody who doesn't have their bachelors yet about how many sessions you should be getting.

Sara Rahn: 

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And it's fascinating. I think some people are just starting to realize some of these things with social media. I watched a doctor on I think it was on Instagram the other day just they were recording their call with Blue Cross Blue Shield and why isn't this surgery being approved and yep that's what leads to burnout is we have all this education and training and we're not allowed for silly reasons financial reasons for somebody who's not involved to treat people the way that we would like

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it's definitely And I think too, I'm curious. I know this is diverting a little bit, but maybe not. But it's interesting how the therapist evolution happens because I think back to little baby Sarah therapist and I'm going to save the world, I have a very special place in my heart for people with schizophrenia. I have a very special place in my heart,…

Sara Rahn: for the unhoused population. a very special place in my heart. It's very very close to me. And I was like, I'm going to help these people out because I love them. And now I'm maybe to the extent of where I will volunteer or…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Sara Rahn: I will financially support. and it's just really funny how like that changes. So I am curious what 60-year-old therapist is going to think or just like the evolution of how we really do grow within this profession and I don't know that's fascinating to me again what little baby Sarah therapist was versus 13 years later.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: I think some of that's probably life stage development, right?

Sara Rahn: Sure.

Jeremy Schumacher: were maybe well educated but lacking life experience in our early 20s.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: I was more idealistic certainly back…

Sara Rahn: 2030s. Yeah,…

Jeremy Schumacher: then than I am now. but also I think that's a good thing, I think as a profession, this comes up a lot on the podcast, which I think is a good topic that as therapists should change over time. we're humans.

00:25:00

Sara Rahn: absolutely. Absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: we grow. And if we're doing, our first two sessions the way we were precisely taught in grad school, we're probably doing a disservice to people.

Sara Rahn: I'm so glad you bring that up because I feel like personally I think this is one of those professions similar to the medical profession where we are literally never done in our education and it is your responsibility to continue to be humble and accept that we don't have all the answers yet and accept that you need to continue to educate yourself.

Sara Rahn: I am all about continuing education. I like to the point where my partner's "Dude, slow down. You got enough degrees. You got enough certifications. …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Great,…

Sara Rahn: take a break." But I just think it's so important and I'm kind of like in the back of my head, What if they could benefit from Brains Spot? What if they could, but I really think It's really, advantageous to your clients to have all these things in your toolbox. And you don't want to become that, 58-year-old counselor that's, using Freudian stuff and doesn't think they can do any better, because we know they're out there, Right.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, they're on the east coast. We can throw some shade.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. and…

Jeremy Schumacher: again, it's such I think socially the field shifted as well because I think when you think of Freud and some of those early people who absolutely didn't know what they were talking about.

Sara Rahn: Yeah.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: But it was a wellrespected profession because there weren't that many people in it. And some of this is absolutely misogyny because now it's a female dominated field.

Sara Rahn: I was just going to say They were also white men,…

Sara Rahn: so they held back on.

Jeremy Schumacher: But it's shifted to sort of be that perspective on it's a tier below your medical care or…

Jeremy Schumacher: it's a tier below the doctor lawyer sort of standard of professional lensure when it's not.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah. Yay.

Jeremy Schumacher: So I don't know that's a whole separate topic. Obviously the bingo card of the podcast Jeremy complains about capitalism is almost always on there.

Jeremy Schumacher: Sarah, do you mind talking a little bit about our current time and…

Jeremy Schumacher: place in America here where this is a thing that I've talked about before, but obviously want to give you a chance to comment on it because of your lived experience.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: The attack on DEI, what has conveniently been dropped off is always which is accessibility.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And so it was always diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility. Or it used to be idea before it was idea was the acronym, and the A is accessibility. And so I'm curious sort of within your community and your own lived experience, what people are talking about, what some of the concerns are with taking away some of these protections and…

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: how that could affect accessibility for differently aabled folks.

Sara Rahn: I mean, I think the biggest thing coming up right now,…

Sara Rahn: obviously is the potential cuts to Medicaid and Medicare. …

Jeremy Schumacher: Mhm.

Sara Rahn: I mean, obviously that myself I work full-time. I bust my ass off. I pay a lot of money in taxes, might I add. And I am a recipient of Medicaid and Medicare. Why? Because I have 24-hour caregivers.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: I use a lot of funding. I also pay a lot into the economy. That's how the system is supposed to work. I think, we are scared of that. We are terrified of that. I think outside of kind of the immediate now and maybe in the past four years, I guess for me personally, I think when it comes to disability equality, one like conversation I've had with my friends, especially within 2020 and,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.  Yeah.

Sara Rahn: George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, I had a  couple friends at the time who would say things like disabled lives matter and I had to be like but wait a second we're not persecuted for rolling into a grocery store I don't know if we can say that and I feel like sometimes within the disabled community it becomes this oppression Olympics I'm more oppressed than you are no I'm more oppressed than you are and it's like guys that's kind of not the purpose like we should kind of be working

Sara Rahn: together and it should kind of be all one and the same. right now we can recognize that our black community is facing and…

00:30:00

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Sara Rahn: there might be a time when the disabled community is facing Medicaid cuts and we really got to stand up at that point it's this collective other that I don't think we realize is big is really really big.  So, the splintering off should not be happening. And that genuinely makes me sad. again, it's not this oppressive Olympics. And I get it. I don't know.

Sara Rahn: I genuinely try not to, and I'm sure you can relate to this too, but I think right now showing up for our clients as a mental health professional, trying to validate their experience, …

Sara Rahn: without letting it snowball, without letting it get to this doomsday.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: I don't think I've ever said that more in my life than I have now. I don't think I've ever said, "Yeah, you're right." I don't think I've ever said that before. I'm not saying, " that's a little bit of a distorted thought." …

Jeremy Schumacher: Oops. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: I'm not saying that as much anymore, Because it's not. With that being said, we have to continue to ground our clients and we have to continue to not worry until we actually have something to worry about. And I always encourage my clients to stick with their people, find their people. as much as you can…

Sara Rahn: until there is something that we know we need to do something about, just keep going on with your dayto-day because they win if we interrupt our day before something's actually happening. That's how they win. If we're stopping going to work,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. That's…

Sara Rahn: we're stopping going to the movies because we're freaking out, that's how they win. And that's not even worth it, I feel like that's at least what I'm trying to do.

Jeremy Schumacher: what we say and we need to have these types of conversations to remind ourselves for it too.

Sara Rahn: I I mean, I always tell my clients, I'm like, "Do what I say, not what I actually do." But yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And yeah, that idea too of collective action has been a big thing that I've been talking with folks about you need your community.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. my god.

Jeremy Schumacher: And if you're well resourced enough to invest energy there,…

Jeremy Schumacher: I think obviously for people who are being renditioned, because these are not legal deportations. these are renditionings. That's a different word. I think right that's at the top of the list, but reading project 2025, which I did because I work with religious drama. knowing that LGBTQ folks are next on the list and…

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: following an authoritarian playbook that disabled folks are also on the list. And so stripping rights away as a way to ostracize folks and…

Sara Rahn: 

Sara Rahn: Yep. There were the Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: make these communities smaller and more isolated. The way to fight that is by joining in community, being allied, even if it's not part of your personal experience or your perceived community.

Jeremy Schumacher: if we're not billionaires,…

Sara Rahn: Yep. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: we are not in the ruling class. cool. It's depressing, but Sarah, let's pivot a little bit here. Who Let's talk a little bit about who you like to work with.

Jeremy Schumacher: What are the clients that you like to find you that you enjoy working with?

Sara Rahn: Yeah. I don't…

Sara Rahn: if I should be this excited as I talk about this. I'm like, "Yeah." I like trauma. I'm a trauma therapist. And I know we all say that, but I'm really a trauma therapist. That's like my niche. I really like trauma. I do brain spotting. eight months ago I got my clinical hypnosis certification. So I do hypnotherapy now which is super fascinating.

Sara Rahn: It's my new thing. I'm super fascinated with how the brain works and the subconscious and it's just super cool. I don't really like kids,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: back to the undergrad finding out that I didn't really like kids. I love them. They're cute and all. just, I kind of feel awkward around them, I can't talk to you like a tiny human because it's ideally like 18 and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: I have a special place in my heart for the elderly population. because of my comfortability with things like terminal illness and death and dying, I'm really really comfortable with end of life stuff. I'm really really comfortable with grieving. that's kind of another little niche that I've been exploring.

00:35:00

Sara Rahn: So, yeah, kind of my hands are in a lot of stuff versus Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think the trauma piece, you highlighted it a little bit, but there's a difference between someone saying they're trauma informed and actually having studied it and…

Sara Rahn: Yeah. yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. for sure. yeah,…

Sara Rahn: Whoa.

Jeremy Schumacher: I should have you back on the podcast and we can just talk about medical trauma sometime. but again I think having that lived experience is one of those things that I've had to do a lot of learning and educating around because been relatively healthy. Not that I go to the doctor, I avoid it. I had PT today for a 16-year-old injury and they're like, "Why didn't you come sooner?" I was like, " I know. I'm bad at that."

Jeremy Schumacher: But yeah, just the number of clients I have with who chronic health issues and like that that medical trauma is its own thing and it's really trippy to experience that and then have to participate in the medical process still to try and get services and get the treatment that you need.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. my gosh.

Sara Rahn: Yes. Yep. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: Future episode.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Sticking with the theme of the podcast, where are you finding joy? What are you doing for self-care? What does it look like for you taking care of yourself so you can show up for your clients the way you want to?

Sara Rahn: I have a wonderful partner. he's fantastic. we're very,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Sara Rahn: very different, but it's in the best kind of way because I'm very serious and he's goofy as heck. And so, we kind of balance each other out.  He also works with four and 5-year-olds, so our dinner conversations are very grounding because I see drama all day and he sees kiddneys all day. I'm a member of the heart revival center. It's a yoga meditation center in St. Francis. Meg is our community leader there. She is a wonderful sparkly gem of a human being and I love her so much.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.  Yeah.

Sara Rahn: Just really you talk about community there is nothing sitting with 20 30 minded people and…

Sara Rahn: silence and meditation twice a week to get you back to a good place it's so nice. so I go there regularly and then I'm a big fan of the self-cares when my partner and I had to do our finances and budgets I was like we are not taking away the manicures. I will get rid of Netflix before I get rid of my manicures. And in fact it's not happening. so simple stuff like that.

Sara Rahn: Those are really my go-tos. And I'm fortunate that I have my mom and my brother moved up here from Chicago six or seven years ago, so they're close by now. So, I see them,…

Sara Rahn: a couple times a week. So, those are my grounding people.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: That mix of good community and support with some activities specific to Yeah.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I started this podcast before Trump 2.0 not knowing…

Jeremy Schumacher: how relevant it would be to have these conversations with therapists. anything that just been recreational fun for Anything that you're like, "Hey, this show flying under the radar. This movie made me laugh." Anything that's just been a joyful experience for you lately?

Sara Rahn: There's so much to talk about.

Sara Rahn: Gosh, what are we watching Poker Face. Have you seen that one? It's hilarious. It's Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: with the red head the …

Sara Rahn: Yeah. What the heck's her name? Is it Natasha Lynn? I think that's it.

Jeremy Schumacher: her breakout was Orange is the New Black.

Sara Rahn: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. she's hilarious.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: What else? Don't laugh. But I am a reality TV person and I love The Real Housewives. It's like my guilty pleasure. it's ridiculous. It's so absurd, but it's like I can turn my brain off and I could have had the worst day and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Mhm. Yes.

Sara Rahn: I could have seen eight clients and I'm like, what are these, crazy, wives up to this week and it's just literally the brain turns off. and also I'm a crazy cat lady,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: I've got three cats so they're always good ones to have, right?

00:40:00

Jeremy Schumacher: I will judge a little bit on the reality TV,…

Jeremy Schumacher: but not for good reason because I like pro wrestling. So, …

Sara Rahn: Yes. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: But I do think when I started the podcast I would ask this question. People would tell me what they were reading what drama book they were reading or what so I've had to tweak the question a little bit but I think there's value in these things that do allow us to turn our brains off.

Jeremy Schumacher: Because for a lot of us spaceholders, helpers, our brains will go and…

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: go and go and go and sometimes we need to let our brain rest.

Sara Rahn: I decided a couple years ago I was going to categorize my regeneration time, the time So, I decided I'm going to have creative time, turn off the brain time, education time, exercise time. So, I kind of break it into categories.

Sara Rahn: So, I'm allowed to have rest time that looks like reading an academic journal. I'm allowed to have rest time that looks like watching Real Housewives, but I'm also allowed to have,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Mhm.

Sara Rahn: rest time that looks like playing a stimulating board game with my partner. I kind of like to break it down into categories. And It's all regenerating what I need, but it's just in different ways…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Rahn: because we get something from all of that stuff.

Jeremy Schumacher: I love the intention that that allows for.

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Spread it out a little bit more.

Jeremy Schumacher: Very cool.

Jeremy Schumacher: Sarah, if people want to learn more about your work, if they want to work with you, where do they go? How do they find you?

Sara Rahn: Yeah. …

Sara Rahn: my practice is compassionate healing. I should have mentioned that earlier. So, I do work with trauma, but my practice is really rooted in a holistic I really love to incorporate elements of yoga,…

Sara Rahn: mind, body. I think that's so important when we address trauma. We know that trauma lives in the body and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yep.

Sara Rahn: I'm humble enough to know that as amazing as I am, talk therapy doesn't do it all sometimes. so I am rooted in a holistic practice. my website is just my name saron.com. So that's s a r ahn. and on there you can find out more about me. There's links to my services and there's email and all that good stuff.

Sara Rahn: 

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And we'll have that stuff down in the show notes so those links are easy for folks to find.

Sara Rahn: Cool. Thank you.

Jeremy Schumacher: Sarah, this has been wonderful. Thanks so much for taking the time.

Sara Rahn: This is fun. It's my first podcast.

Jeremy Schumacher: An easy one, I think I'm a good introduction as a try and…

Sara Rahn: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: make it Yes. And, like I said, we'll have those links in the show notes so folks can find that and work with you. So, awesome to chat today. All our wonderful listeners out there, thanks for tuning in again this week. We'll be back next week with another new episode. Take care, everyone.

Meeting ended after 00:43:04 👋

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