Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Everyone needs help with their mental health, even mental health professionals. Join us as we have your therapist take a seat on the couch to talk about their own mental health journey!
Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Your Therapist Needs Therapy 122 - These Books are for Everybody with Cree Myles
In this episode, Jeremy gets to chat with all around awesome human and book influencer Cree Myles about her journey into book advocacy. They explore how literature, hip-hop, and good mentors in higher education shaped Cree’s worldview. They talk about how great Ursala K Le Guin is, how content creation under capitalism feels gross sometimes, and how hard it can be to find time to read as a parent. The conversation also covers the importance of building values-aligned communities, how racism looks in the suburbs, and of course some really good recommendations for books.
Go listen to Cree on her podcast These Books are for Everybody! Like and subscribe, obviously. Also follow Cree on Instagram where she is hilarious and also does her hip-hop verse annotations. Be cool and read good books!
As always, Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube. To show your love for the show you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well! None of my online work would be possible without my media maven Kenny, so check out their work as well at kenlingdesign.com
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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.
If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.
Your Therapist Needs Therapy - Cree Myles - 2025/10/29 12:59 CDT - Transcript
Attendees
Cree Myles, Jeremy Schumacher
Transcript
Jeremy Schumacher: Hello and welcome to another edition of Your Therapist Needs Therapy podcast where two mental health professionals talk about their mental healthy journey and how they navigate mental wellness while working in the mental health field. I'm your host Jeremy Schumacher, licensed marriage and family therapist. Today's a special guest episode today is a non-therapy person who is excited to talk about mental health and I'm super stoked. somebody I know personally but also a Milwaukee person and I love to get some Milwaukee folks on the podcast. I am joined today by book influencer. is that okay to say?
Cree Myles: Yeah, that's exactly what I am.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, book influencer C Miles.
Jeremy Schumacher: Cree, thanks for joining me today.
Cree Myles: Thank you so much for asking. I'm excited to be here and I'm always down the yap about mental health. Always. I love this question.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. let's start with what does a book influencer do and how did you come to be that Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: I was literally just at the Wisconsin Book Festival in Madison and a retired librarian with her cane walks up to me because I moderated a conversation and she said, "What did you say you were?" And I was like, "I just literally talk about books on the internet." And she was like, " I could do that." I was like, "You could absolutely do that." and we would love to have you in the space. But I mean, I think a lot of times when people think about influencers, they think about makeup and clothes. They think about Kim Kardashian. but there's a whole subset of us who are pushing literature. And it's a fun community. It's dramatic.
Cree Myles: There are really small sematical hills that people die on that are hilarious. but overall I really enjoy it and it just started as a passion project.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: My middle child Nat, I was at home with him and just needed something to stimulate my brain besides keeping track of my breastfeeding schedule, So I was like, let me just talk about these books on the internet on a consistent basis because I had already been doing that, but when he came along, I was like, let me try to build it instead of just casually doing it. and it was just a perfect storm because Tanahasi Coats that was like he was on the internet for 20 minutes before he disappeared back under a rock.
Cree Myles: So we vibed really well and he just had his debut novel coming out and I'm notoriously a chaser so I always go for the biggest thing even when it's not the ideal time to do that. So it was Tanahasi coast was on I was like…
Cree Myles: who is the biggest author I could find and chase and it's Tanahasi I grab his book and then it just grew from there really.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: So now I get paid to do it. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: With Penguin Publishing House. I don't know their formal title. I know it's Penguin.
Cree Myles: Yeah. The largest publishing house in the world.
Jeremy Schumacher: Name Dropper. Yeah. Which is very cool. And again, I think people think of influencer as grifter, right? That's how I think of influencer in the wellness space that I operate in is …
Cree Myles: For Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: it's Joe Rogan selling supplements that are bad for you. but you're trying to make reading more accessible and…
Jeremy Schumacher: help people find books that will be of interest to them.
Cree Myles: Yeah, I mean I try to build my platform rooted in my personal ideological frameworks.
Cree Myles: So I'm a black feminist. so that's what I try to keep my platform centered around. I've actually just been thinking I need to do a winter studies to figure out if I'm a socialist or a communist. So I need to do so I'm not on here mindlessly pushing or I'm trying not to but the skeptics say we all have a price so I probably have one.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I'm an anarchist until somebody offers me a, sponsorship that will cover my,…
Cree Myles: You know what I'm saying? And then I'm just like and if you put in my code you'll get 20%. because I have a mortgage.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. as a therapist, I wouldn't let Better Help sponsor my podcast because they're bad, right?
Cree Myles: Yes. That I wouldn't any Kindle,…
Cree Myles: Audible. I try to go Libby Bookshop,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: instead of the big dogs, but the big dogs have the money. So, it's not they're always pushing and trying. So, holding the line, I think it's something we all got to do.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. as sort of this weird space where you can interact with some of these big names and catch some of these people what is it going to like a Madison event or…
00:05:00
Jeremy Schumacher: a Milwaukee event what sort of people are you connecting with there it's not just big fancy names it's sometimes retired librarians so what's sort of the vibe you get at these events and…
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: who's excited about reading because it feels so ubiquitous
Jeremy Schumacher: And also is like this thing that not enough people are doing. Yep.
Cree Myles: I'm genuinely inspired and excited by anyone who, as I say, is reading that good s***. I do. just in all spaces that I think the things that are getting pushed out and the things that are the most popular aren't necessarily doing the best job at making us the healthiest society. So, I was at the library this summer and it was an elderly man talking to the librarian in front of me and I just overheard the tail end of the conversation. He was like she's the best short story writer I don't know if you haven't read her you need to find it. And I literally walk up to him and I'm like I know you're not talking about Alice Monroe and he was like I absolutely am young lady and have you read?
Cree Myles: And I'm like, " my gosh, this is what this is about." and I've loved old stories my whole life.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Cree Myles: I just think that they root you in a really beautiful way. our whole experience on this planet is really just made up of stories. So, even when I was like a first grader, I remember in my school library, I subconsciously was looking for the oldest book in that library. And I read it was this book called Strawberry Girl. It was written in 1940. And I was just excited at the idea of someone who was so alive with an idea so long ago and now I'm consuming it. So that's just I've always liked that and I loved hanging out at the Madison Book Festival. The true readers, the room was stuffed with people. I loved that for the writer, too.
Cree Myles: And also it was fun to connect with the folks in Milwaukee it's interesting that people know who I am cuz I never am posting under the guise of to be perceived I know that I am being perceived…
Cree Myles: but I like doing this. I am a theater child
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: So for people to call back something I did I'm always like right people the number are people who engaged with this and saw it. So that's always fun all the time.
Jeremy Schumacher: For yeah, talk a little bit if you don't mind about your early experiences with reading who sort of cultivated that love of reading to the point where you get to do it professionally. Yep.
Cree Myles: So in kindergarten I actually refused to learn to read. we send our children to a Walder school. I did not go to a Walder school. I went to Monomony Falls public school. So we're learning our letters and sounds in kindergarten and I was like this is too high pressure. Get me out of here. I'm not doing this. And my mom was like okay you need to learn how to do something. So she bought me all these sign language tapes. And so on the weekends I was learning signs because I didn't want to learn how to read. So I go into first grade, can't read a lick. all of my peers are reading. And then this girl in my class, Emily, was reading at a fourth grade reading level and everybody loved her. So I was like, " I am about to blow this b** out of the water." So then I was like, "What do I have to do to get in Emily's reading group?" And the teacher was like, "Girl, you can't even barely spell your name…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Heat.
Cree Myles: but here." And so it literally just is a semester. This is how I lived my whole life. It was just from the beginning of school until December, I'm at home until my eyes hurt, just running the things. And then finally, I went into my sister's room, grabbed a Babysitter's Club book, struggled through it, loved it, and then it took off. And so by the time the next semester rolled around, I was in the same reading group as Emily. And I did it because I just wanted the attention, but also I got access to all these beautiful stories. So I was like, " this is So yeah, Babysitter's Club AriL Stein, Goosebumps created me. I did a little bit of Jodie Pult, like her early My Sister's Keeper. I read that in middle school. Look for Me by Moonlight.
Cree Myles: is this wild vampire thing…
00:10:00
Cree Myles: where he's slowly killing his teenager. Why was that in my library? But I am not about censorship. period. and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: then also just coldest winter ever. I read that way too early. but it's It's just like it was able to give me a sense of privacy where you're a kid, people are always up in your business. Nobody's really paying attention to what I'm reading. So I just get to explore things safely in that way.
Jeremy Schumacher: This is a terrible question because I just want to be like, "So, when were you diagnosed with ADHD?" I need to stop asking people who aren't my clients that question. Just assuming.
Cree Myles: Hey, please always Okay,…
Jeremy Schumacher: So I also want to talk about racism because I know you grew up in Monomony Falls and so I'm from the north side of Milwaukee. And when I say north side, I mean geographically.
Jeremy Schumacher: So there's a sliver of Milwaukee that is between Monamin Falls and Brown Deer it's still Milwaukee, but I'm that far north. So that's where I grew up. Like 76th and Mill, right?
Cree Myles: gotcha. Yep.
Jeremy Schumacher: Which anybody who's from around there is that's if you go to the Burger King at 76th and Mill as a white person, you're not getting your food right away. that's just what happens.
Cree Myles: Okay.
Jeremy Schumacher: And it's fine. It's not reverse racism or whatever. I'm just saying I grew up around there. And then I went to school in Sussex because I grew up super f** religious and my parents sent me to this weird little culty private school. so it's this really weird sort of dichotomy if you're in the city of Milwaukee. it's very diverse. Pockets of it are, but where I grew up as a white person minority, there were Middle Eastern folks, there were Asian folks, there were lots of black people around. And so then I went to private school and we had one Korean kid…
Jeremy Schumacher: who was adopted by a white family.
Jeremy Schumacher: And there was this really weird mix between this is the environment I grew up in where it's diversity and there's lots of different people around and then I went out into the suburbs and it gets very very fast. I'm curious what sort of your experience that was in Monomony Falls.
Cree Myles: Mhm. I mean it was emotionally and…
Cree Myles: psychologically violent. and it's just what are you going to do? I'm four generations removed from slavery maybe. So my grandparents were the great migrators. My grandmother came up here from Mississippi. and they were an ambitious lot. So they bought a house in Mecoan on the lake, five bedroomedroom circular drive. My grandfather was a notorious slumlord in the 70s.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: That's how he made all of his money. And so my mom went to Homestead in the 70s. and just lived in a physically unsafe house. So my grandfather was a slum lord and just a terror in the house and so my mom and my dad get married and the house is very physically safe but it's hard to free yourself from the shackles of respectability politics. So it's just like my parents built this house in Mecoan.
Cree Myles: I'm going to build a house in Monam Falls and my kids are going to go to this school that is acade on paper is academically pristine. even if it is only 2% black, what's the big deal about that? and so I walked around safe and then my parents did have some foresight like my mother knowing how homogeneous the environment she was an administrator in the school. So that did is insulate me from some things like people watched how they talk to my brother and I because they knew the power that my mother wielded. But I mean a racist slip is always going to show and just people are products of their environments So while it was all happening I was happy and fine because I'm just like a high achieving person.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: So, I held I still hold a record there. And I won Governor's Girls Day. I got this huge scholarship and blah blah blah. I'm good at masking, I guess. I don't know. and then once I leave the environment, when I went to college, I went to the University of K Kentucky for two years and I really found some people. who I really like and honestly I'm still working through finding people just because of that lineage that I mentioned with my grandparents and my parents I view relationships as very transactional because oftentimes they haven't been emotionally safe.
00:15:00
Cree Myles: So I think more than anything that's what the racism did to me. it had me believing that relationships can only go so far cuz eventually the person is going to disappoint you in a way that you all can't come back from …
Cree Myles: because of some belief that they have deeply instilled in them. And so you just kind of have to live with that and know that a part of you will always be lonely. but I'm unlearning that now in my mid30s that I can have really deep and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: enriching relationships with people and push past stuff. And honestly, people of all races, it really helps if they aren't Republicans. Honestly, that was like that. They're nuts. They're nuts. So, the majority of my neighborhood is white, but all of them are socialist and that really does make a difference. they just are aware of the oppression that we're living under deep pockets.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: and we're talking about Monam Falls being racist, but Meccoan, Homestead, these are white wealthy areas.
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. the high school where the rich white kids are doing party drugs is Homestead. that's So,…
Cree Myles: That's where they pull out the cocaine.
Jeremy Schumacher: and I graduated high school in 2006.
Jeremy Schumacher: It's been that way for as long as I can remember. So, this is an old white wealth area that your family then moved to and then moved out of. But it Milwaukee is so weird, I think, because it has this bad reputation because of a bad study that was done in the '9s that says it's the most segregated city in the country.
Cree Myles: Mhm.
Jeremy Schumacher: It's not…
Cree Myles: Really? Help…
Jeremy Schumacher: because that study said Salt Lake City was the most integrated city in the country…
Cree Myles: Help me.
Jeremy Schumacher: which obviously they did it it was a very poorly done study but Milwaukee has this bad reputation because of that so I try and highlight there's racism because it's America so obviously and…
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: also Milwaukee is not worse than other metropolitan areas around it. there's red lining and there's segregation and there's all the s*** that I'm not dismissing or minimizing. It's just I sort of hold that line of Milwaukee is not worse than your other places even…
Jeremy Schumacher: if it has that reputation. But it is odd how quickly outside of the city those suburbs get real white and it doesn't take long to see a Trump sign outside the city when you're driving in this area.
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: Just go west and it gets rough northwest.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. so yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: I was prepping and I saw you went to school in Monam Falls, so we're going to talk about that.
Cree Myles: For sure.
Cree Myles: For sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: Ursula Kwyn is one of your preferred authors that made your top three list for favorite books.
Cree Myles: Hell yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: So yeah, what was you started out competitive with your reading and then fell in love with it, but this sort of we'll talk about black feminist writing, but also …
Jeremy Schumacher: Ursula Kayw did a* ton of sci-fi and a bunch of other stuff. how did you took us sort of up to college? Where did the reading sort of go from there?
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: I found Ursula in college. I college really did its job for me.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yep.
Cree Myles: I believe in higher education. It obviously should be free because people need it. but I transferred from UK to Alurno because I was expecting my first child, Ethan. I need to be closer to my parents. and so I'm at Alvero and I'm just getting rocked left and right. my economics teacher Zay it's like a human economics is her approach. this is not a hard science in the way that physics and chemistry is a hard science and I need people to stop this is a social science so she has us rewiring our brain all around that. my minor was global studies so I'm just getting all of these statistics around why the hell is Jamaica's GDP $6500 and ours is $150?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Cree Myles: What does that even mean? And then who is getting that 150 because there are people who are only making $20,000. So I'm just getting all this information, young and 20 convinced that I'll fix it. I just need a minute and I'll get it together. So I'm going through it. I'm getting very disillusioned trying to do things in college realizing cutting my teeth in the realities of bureaucracy. And so then I have to take an independent study with Stephen Shy and I go into his classroom. I'm going to be a senior and I have literally no more time for theoretical b******* because for some reason everyone just thinks they can only think so far and then they stop imagining and that is stressing me out because children are dying. What is the most radical thing we could do to save the kids? And he was like, "Okay."
00:20:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Cree Myles: So, he walks to a shelf and pulls out The Dispossessed by Ursula Kaywin and he was like, "Let's read this." And I was like, "Okay, don't piss me off. this better be we could." And so, it's just a masterpiece, dude. when you talk about someone really trying to take an idea and poke every possible hole in it. because you think of a utopic anarch anarchy and people are like that would fix everything and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Right.
Cree Myles: it fixed a lot but she still exposed that nothing will be perfect and I think that's a lot of the push back that people get when they have radical ideas is that it won't work because of blah blah blah okay but damn can we just adjust as we go on instead of you immediately writing it off as if the way that things are working right now is great. So it was such a masterpiece. So then I read the word for world is forest also a masterpiece. the left-handed darkness is like her crown jewel which is interesting to me…
Cree Myles: because I liked the dispossessed and the word for world is forest so much more but also just ahead of its time.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: Chalk full of non-binary characters in the 70s. Get out of here, Ursula would don't even when she died in 2018, I took the day off. I called in and I cried. And she had three kids.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: Writing like that is just a genius. That's it. I love her.
Jeremy Schumacher: I will also say higher ed should be free but similarly I went to parochial school again grew up fundy weirdly religious
Cree Myles:
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: but then I went to University of Minnesota and I was premed and psych and when I realized premed wasn't for me then I was psych and cultural studies and my cultural studies classes were awesome and I read left-handed darkness in college was the first time I had read any of her work and it's those classes I think are really important and I think the reason they're under our current regime and have been under attack by Republicans for a long time is…
Jeremy Schumacher: because it broadens people's horizons. I had been very sheltered in this very culty religion and then I'm at this public university reading these books that are revolutionary in concept and you can't help but look at the world differently.
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yeah. I really but yes, thank you for flagging that difference because I do have a beef with if someone's going into a hard science if someone's premed and…
Cree Myles: then they don't read any literature for any of their classes. I'm just like you I still don't have the language for how it stunts a person but people be walking around half them theirelves…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: because they are not taking any humanities. I need people to take humanities. We're human.
Jeremy Schumacher: And as a psych I speak fondly. I mean I was a terrible student. I got great grades, but I skipped class all the time.
Cree Myles: Okay.
Jeremy Schumacher: I was one of those kids. but I never skipped my cultural studies classes because they were so much fun. We were reading Frankenstein and being like,…
Cree Myles: Yes. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: "What would Freud say about Mary Shelly?" And I'm like a young psych student being like, "Okay, this is not how I'm learning the science of psychology. this stuff's fun. let's explore and see what would happen."
Jeremy Schumacher: And then I think that also set up a lot of my career to be different than I have this very strong research background and that definitely matters in a time when do your own research is a real problem for people.
Cree Myles: And that phrase as a researcher,…
Jeremy Schumacher: I always laugh…
Cree Myles: how does that phrase make you feel? Peer reviewed.
Jeremy Schumacher: because I've laughed when people have said it to me because I'm published in scientific journals I can do my own research. Let me sure I will. but yeah, it's sort of the oversimplifying and bismerching of that concept. But …
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, I think then I saw this in between of psychology is an art. how do you be with people and how do you help? And I think having those cultural studies classes set me up to approach my entire career differently because of that.
00:25:00
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: instead of being like, " insurance will only reimburse me for this thing because it's backed by evidence." And again, I hold a lot of space for evidence-based practice. I think it matters and…
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't think that can be healing in and…
Jeremy Schumacher: of itself. Yeah.
Cree Myles: Yeah. No,…
Cree Myles: I completely agree with you and the other thing I think about all the times in terms of Ursula is that both of her parents were PhD anthropologist. So that she live she was reared in a house that valued critical thought that was open to being incorrect.
Cree Myles: They were just always trying stuff. So I think we see that in her writing everywhere.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I think I'm biased. My favorite author is a former anthropologist, but the idea that people who have worked with societies that have already collapsed can do really great world building.
Cree Myles: Yeah, that sounds with the very limited time that I've had to think about that…
Cree Myles: because it's the first time I've heard this idea. I'm giving it 10 out of 10.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. …
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't know. There's just something about if you can look at how a society collapsed, then you can put together a really good world. We're going to have some great authors who are, in elementary school right now. Yeah.
Cree Myles: My god.
Cree Myles: My We're gonna have some really a second, third, fourth, I don't know which wave it would be is coming and we're going to be knocked on our asses.
Cree Myles: Yes. Yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, for sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: Do you want to talk about your podcast? Should we? Yeah.
Cree Myles: so my podcast was born because I was trying to actually produce a show with PBS and under the same name and I guess kind of the same concept. I'm building up to the concept, but it just didn't work out. So I was like I have all of this stuff. I need to put it somewhere. So, I know that in order for me to make something good, I'm not the type who has a really strong outline. I always have an outline,…
Cree Myles: but I know that there are gaps that I just can't account for and I just have to start making the things. So, that really is the podcast right now. I'm like building it as it's flying with the loose premises that I have.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: But I really more than anything if we like our unwilling participation in capitalism and how we need to have a place to put ourselves I really just dream of being the book person for the hip-hop folks if comp complex and revolt and all of the rappers who consider themselves intellectuals I would want them to want to talk to me about books. So, that's…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: that's what we're doing. That's what I'm trying to do. making s*** is hard.
Jeremy Schumacher: I like to test the content creation label even though I have a podcast that's in its second year and I do a weekly YouTube video, but for me it is again I think this space…
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: where right we have plenty of content creators who are just putting out s*** for money, and so I think if you're good at something, passionate about wellinformed about something that does matter. there is space for education and art appreciation and community building. the sort of idea of the internet that was a good idea before it just funded the military-industrial complex.
Jeremy Schumacher: the idea of it as sort of this space for community building like that it's possible some places still. Mhm.
Cree Myles: Yeah, if we can still carve it out. I read Gia Tolantino's Trick Mirrors this year. It's like a book of essays that she published in 2017 or 2018. everyone says she's our generation's Joan Ddian. She's 36 and she is a beast. So, I'm reading the book, but the book starts because she's 37, I think. it starts with her original relationship with the internet and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: how it was just like that sparkly font that would give you an aneurysm and it's like then she had this open journal where she's talking about how much she loves the internet when she's 10. She's just like, I love the internet. and she's like how we went from that to anytime anything is posted she used to work at Jezebel that overtly feminist publication and they would post things and…
00:30:00
Cree Myles: just get eaten alive. She's like how did we get here Because it used to be a fun field of flowers.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. …
Jeremy Schumacher: and we didn't even say the name of your podcast. These books are for everybody.
Cree Myles:
Cree Myles: Yes, That's the name. Much like these hoes,…
Jeremy Schumacher: That's the name.
Cree Myles: these books are for everybody.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. with just a banger of a opening theme song, too. It's very catchy.
Cree Myles: Thank you, my brother.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Cree Myles: Oberlin grad.
Jeremy Schumacher: Its it gives me podcast envy that you have such a good opening song. it's frustrating I think when you do something like this cuz the metrics and the algorithms and everything like I have this research brain so it's easy to chase these numbers that you get or…
Cree Myles: Yeah. Michael,…
Jeremy Schumacher: you've gone viral. I mean you've had some big names and some big Michael G Michael B.
Jeremy Schumacher: Jordan in your content.
Cree Myles: if you're listening, Come back. Yes. No,…
Jeremy Schumacher: But it's easy to I think we've been packaged to the internet as if you just do the meritocracy of it then you'll get that payoff and that's not at all what happened.
Cree Myles: honestly, I Okay, I'm going down a real black girl niche moment right now. in 2014, Beyonce released her self-titled visual album, Beyonce, and it shook my world. I remember I watched it, I was crying, and I'm not even beehive for real. but I really felt like that's where she displayed how committed she was to excellence when she dropped that album. And so it was one of the moments in my life where I was tuned in for all the fodder. So there was an interview she had where she was even me as an established artist, list celebrity, I can make something and it still might fail. I funded this project.
Cree Myles: I funded all these videos. The record label wouldn't do it.
Cree Myles: They didn't even know she was pushing it out. And she was like, "And I did all this knowing that nothing might come of it." So I just have to be proud of…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Right.
Cree Myles: what I created. And I was 24 when I watched that. And that's literally what I claim to. So whatever I put out, no matter what it gets, metrics wise, I'm like in 10 years when I look back at this, will I value what this was doing? And that's just how I move.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah, I have to have some version of that, too, because stupid s* goes viral and I get mad about it.
Cree Myles: For every time. Yes. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: Why didn't anybody watch the video that's really good and well thought out and then the stupid thing where I'm complaining about Nazis is going viral. okay.
Cree Myles: Yes. Every time.
Jeremy Schumacher: Or it'll be five month I reviewed a Chumba Womba song that went viral after Charlie Kirk died…
Jeremy Schumacher: because Chumbo Womba's super anarchist and awesome yeah.
Cree Myles: And of course that sent everyone.
Cree Myles: Yeah, I know.
Jeremy Schumacher: So then I was like why do I have so many views? And I opened this fivemonth old video and I'm like what the f*** is going on? but it's this weird thing that you sort of can't chase. And so I try and balance would I rather have 25 people…
Jeremy Schumacher: who could be watching a Jordan Peterson video watch my s***. that makes it worth it. I don't care if it's making money or going viral or doing anything. there's 25 people who are getting better information than they would have gotten elsewhere and that's important.
Cree Myles: right? Absolutely.
Cree Myles: Yes. It's the grind.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. But it is hard to Yeah.
Cree Myles: It's just I was just talking to my homies about it. I had a group chat with two full-time book creators and we were just like you just can't really do anything to scale because everything that you create you kind of have to be at the center of it.
Cree Myles: So you're not ever making any type of money without your time also being taken.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Right.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Or buying equipment or converting your living room to a recording space or…
Cree Myles: Yep. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: whatever. Yeah. And then to do it I get frustrated with my profession with therapists who use AI for their media content because I'm like, we should be better than this. What are we doing?" …
Cree Myles: Yeah. Abs.
Jeremy Schumacher: but it's a chunk of change every month for me to pay a graphic designer to do my media. I'm ethically aligned with that, and it sucks.
Cree Myles: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Cree Myles: And dude, yeah, I think about it all the time…
00:35:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yep. Versus,…
Jeremy Schumacher: there I would not have anything if I didn't pay someone to do it. I wouldn't do it because it would take me so long and I'd get frustrated and…
Cree Myles: because it's out of my purview.
Jeremy Schumacher: I wouldn't do it.
Cree Myles: I'm trying to make merch and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Right. Right.
Cree Myles: the amount of hours I've spent just putting three words together so it can go on the left chest. I'm like, right, people have degrees in this. I do not. I'm just using my eyes.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: So, I feel you.
Jeremy Schumacher: You also do some annotation for it for hiphop versus I guess now that we're talking about it,…
Cree Myles: Yeah. I mean it takes that's…
Jeremy Schumacher: I am curious how long it takes you to do those.
Cree Myles: why they don't come out that often because I mean first off not in English. My degree is in community organizing and global studies. So, it's like me looking at something being like this is a pun. I need…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Cree Myles: what word do poets use for pun? that's like so those are the type of things I'm googling. and also just like learning the lore around hiphop because I've always been a casual consumer of hiphop. So, I've never been in the blogs or following just knowing that this is an illusion because Jay-Z kind of had to call out Benny Seagull…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: because Benny Seagull wasn't grateful for how he put him on. I'm like I had no idea that's what was happening just now. I just really liked the way that it sounded when it happened. but I have always, as a little black girl being reared in Monomony Falls, I really liked, the freedom that hip-hop presented to me. because, like I said, I was raised under an oppressive respectability regime, that was really loaded language. My parents are great. It wasn't that bad.
Cree Myles: But it was just like hip hop displayed to me that…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: if you did not align with the respectability, you would still live to see another day. it wasn't and that was really freeing to me. I was mystical started this with what? And this is playing on all of the radio stations. it's like people are celebrating this. So I don't know. it was really easy for me as a child to put myself in the position of because I mean hip-hop is very derogatory towards women and so people I constantly getting asked …
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah,…
Cree Myles: how are you listening to this as a black feminist etc. And because it's my formative music, I was the pimp when I was listening to the song. I wasn't the one being pimped. So it just really gave me confidence and a fearlessness that I needed to n and still now before I have to do something big and scary I'll listen to power by Kanye West and then I'll listen to the transformation of language and action by Audrey Lord.
Cree Myles: I literally am 50% 2000s early hip-hop lyrics.
Jeremy Schumacher: for And I think if you're a little book nerd, hiphop was very fun for the words smmithing that was available. I grew up, again, Christian and country were the only things I was allowed to listen to.
Jeremy Schumacher: So, my brother sneaking in a Boys to Men cassette back in the day was a big deal.
Cree Myles: Okay. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: But when I listened to Jay-Z,…
Jeremy Schumacher: I was like, " man, that's so clever." And I had no frame of reference for what I grew up listening to really being devoid of any cleverness or meaning even. It was like this whole new world open for me.
Cree Myles: It's free.
Cree Myles: I really like when you think about hiphop as being one of the largest moments of counterculture resistance like that's how it started. the roots are deliciously radical.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: So even as far as we have strayed in some ways cuz genius on Instagram just put up the craziest thing of some little boy with this mask on describing his lyrics and he's not even putting a coherent sentence together. But despite that we've gotten that far away from what roots matter. So cuz as much as I loved hip-hop, I was sneaking albums into my house. The misdemeanor is it worth it? Let me work I snuck that into my house and I was only listening to it when my parents were out of the house. My older sister, she's 44. Maveli, I ain't a killer but she snuck that into the house.
00:40:00
Cree Myles: and we were listening to it and so we had to sneak but it just really spoke speaks to me on a spiritual level. all it always has it's just like the survival that it's rooted in by any means necessary I'm going to make it the pageantry. You don't have two nickels to rub together but you're still talking s*** about…
Cree Myles: how you'll buy somebody's house. it's just manifestations and it's just beautiful.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: I love it. Yes. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: And I'm very obviously a white person. my listeners are aware of this. but again I grew up around predominantly black neighborhood and I'm late diagnosed neurody divergent. I'm queer. So this idea of the marginalized community making art and being f*** the system that always appealed to me in a way that didn't make sense until I got much older and could be right the country music wasn't for me either obviously and…
Jeremy Schumacher: so I do like Brian Neals and Infinity Knives City Drowned in God's Black Tears is the album I've listened to the most this year still at this point and
Cree Myles: Yes. It's what?
Jeremy Schumacher: When I say I listen to death metal, people are like, " yeah, that tracks cuz I've got the long hair and everything." And then when I'm like, "You guys listening to Infinity Knives?" They're like, "Who?" Okay.
Cree Myles: Two sides of the same coin,
Jeremy Schumacher: Right. Yeah.
Cree Myles: I need people to be locked in about what counterculture looks like across cultures. it's just the people try to make it and express themselves.
Jeremy Schumacher: And punk and hardcore. And I'm listening to things that are anti-fascist. I don't care who's making them.
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yes. For sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: That's the vibe right Like that that's…
Cree Myles: For sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: what it needs to be. yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: what a weird time to be alive. Yeah.
Cree Myles: True. I know.
Cree Myles: 't eat. We can't pull that far out because I'm Truth is I'm tired. I can't even. This is unbelievable.
Jeremy Schumacher: One of the questions I know I wanted to ask you was, "You got three kids.
Jeremy Schumacher: How do you find so much time to read?" I was hoping for something more useful than that,…
Cree Myles: It's my job.
Cree Myles: So, I mean yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Chris. Yeah.
Cree Myles: it's my job. I value it. because and I Brian's my husband. we both read a lot. and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Mhm.
Cree Myles: I mean I am really grateful for audiobooks. My brain has been spinning a lot more than it used to. a toddler in the house is rougher on me than Julius is two and a half right now. Once he hits four or five, I think physical books will be easier. my nervous system will not be it feels like split ends right now. so even before this,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: I went for an hour and a half long walk and I was listening to an audio book. I read before I go to sleep for about 45 minutes every night. when I'm cleaning the kitchen, I'm listening to an audio book. I'm staining all the wood in our living room right now. And all the wood in my house basically needs to be stripped and sanded and stained. And so the wood that I'm staining right now, I started stripping in August of 2024 and those are all audio books, that got me through that. So that really is the downside to audiobooks is like you miss out on the annotation. Like I listen to I knew it was over there. I listened to King Leopold's Ghost earlier this year, which is a masterpiece.
Cree Myles: And I've just been wanting to reference it because it's about this re secret genocide that I think the average person doesn't know about. and I realized it's harder for me to reference it because I didn't annotate it versus it's big so I can't Okay.
Cree Myles: King by Jonathan E. It won the Pulitzer in 2023 or 24 I think. I read that so it's heavily annotated.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: And so it's super easy for me to reference anything there. So that's how I do it.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. I find since kids I read a lot more graphic novels and I grew up a superhero nerd the prime Batman was animated series was my childhood…
Cree Myles: For sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: but it's just I used to stay up…
Cree Myles: Okay. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: till 1 in the morning reading if I liked a book I would finish it and I fall asleep now…
00:45:00
Cree Myles: Yes. I know.
Jeremy Schumacher: since kids I'll fall asleep
Cree Myles: I The last time I was up reading a book was when we lived in River West, so it was 20 It was the summer 2023. and Rosemary's Baby,…
Cree Myles: I masterpiece. It was River West 24.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yep. Yeah.
Cree Myles: So, I'm on the porch watching people ride past. So, I was up until I finished the book, which I never do. People always think that I'm put putting books away in a day. but then I didn't sleep for three weeks. that was too much to shove into your body in one night, but it's so good.
Jeremy Schumacher: And I'm not on TikTok because I'm an old millennial and…
Cree Myles: Too much.
Jeremy Schumacher: it's the wrong kind of stimulation. I don't know how to describe it other than it's over stimulating and…
Cree Myles: I understand.
Jeremy Schumacher: I have ADHD, so that's saying something.
Cree Myles: Yeah, for sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: But I love connecting with somebody who's read books and the way my brain works, I just want to be like, "Hey, did you read this book?" Because it reminded me of this from this book and then this from this book.
Jeremy Schumacher: And it's really easy as a neurody diverent person to overwhelm people because apparently other people's brains don't work that way. But it's so much fun when you find somebody who's like, " my gosh, I did read that book. I loved it here. Did you read this?" "No,…
Cree Myles: Yes. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: but I'm going to now because you recommended it for sure.
Cree Myles: Yeah. because of my job, I'm very guarded about who I take book recommendations from. And it's high pressure. you give me a book,…
Cree Myles: you swear I'm going love it, I don't love it. I'm never taking a book recommendation from you again. So yes,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, that's the correct way to do it though.
Jeremy Schumacher: You get one shot and…
Cree Myles:
Cree Myles: one shot.
Jeremy Schumacher: that's it.
Cree Myles: Yes, that is absolutely the correct and emotionally healthiest way to go about this for sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. other than reading, which is lovely and awesome for so many different reasons, how are you taking care of your mental health?
Jeremy Schumacher: What else do you do in these fascistic late stage capitalism times?
Cree Myles: Yeah, I walk a lot. Also, I exercise in general. I have a kettle bell that I be trying to be in relationship with.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Just one singular cut.
Cree Myles: And al honestly just one I was doing my whole workout with the 20 pound one and then I just bumped it up to 30 because I was like this is getting too easy and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: the 30 is whooping my ass. So once that's too but I talked to a personal trainer and he was like don't go past 45 with how much you weigh don't you'll be doing too much like whatever, Robert. But he's probably right. and I am the product of black Mississippians who are farmers who my grandma grew up on a farm in Kaziasco.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Mhm.
Cree Myles: And so I believe in the power or the opposite of the depletion of food. what you put in your body is in direct correlation with how you're doing. So, I'm not as intense about it as I feel like I could be. I know people who are more intense about it than I am, but we cook a lot like that. I actually have a neighbor who has just changed my life mostly just because of the amount of discipline that she is always displaying. But just watching her, she just almost lives in her kitchen.
Cree Myles: And then also I both of my sister-in-laws are vegan and when they're in town they're in the kitchen and…
Cree Myles: I'm like yeah because That's where it all starts. So I just have committed myself reframing the idea of being kitchen bound as a privilege and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Heat.
Cree Myles: a necessary vehicle for the health of all of the people that I love instead of oppression. so I've been enjoying just making food, even if it's something really simple. also just my relationship with my screens are not the healthiest right now.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Cree Myles: I'm actually trying to rework them cuz as I'm chasing trying to build up this podcast and all of these things I'm doing, it's super easy to just start scrolling and next thing you know, So, that's not great on my mental health.
Cree Myles: I'm going to be honest. But it is great our kids don't have school this weekend on Thursday and Friday and I just try to leave my phone in a different room. because it's just better for all of us…
00:50:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: if I'm not trying to do a whole bunch of things. So, I mean, yeah. And then just I don't recognizing that I'm gonna die like that's inevitable.
Jeremy Schumacher: Was that…
Cree Myles: My so just having that at the forefront of everything that I do is just like yeah I'mma die.
Jeremy Schumacher: where I thought we were going?
Cree Myles: I should do this real quick or I should definitely put this dress on…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Mhm.
Cree Myles: because I'm not going to be able to wear a dress like this forever. my teenager has taken a recent interest in astronomy. he thinks that's what he wants to do after high school is become an astronomer.
Cree Myles: And so he's always, giving us these wild stats. He's like, the chances of you being born is so you're here.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: And so dying is kind of scary, but it's just a result of being born, which is just a miracle. And so I try and when I'm really stressed, I think about Jupiter what am I worried about? There's big ass planet is out there 8,000 times the size of the planet I'm on.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that stuff. I mean, one of my specialties is religious trauma. So, I see all these people who are looking for healthy community, but also meaning making right and after leaving an unhealthy or toxic environment.
Jeremy Schumacher: And I love to sort of hit them with that we're on this planet moving 600,000 m an hour through space like that in two million years we'll be destroyed by a star we know these things to be true.
Cree Myles: Yeah, we know on factually yes Jeremy we're millennials.
Jeremy Schumacher: Why are you so worried about sending an email? And then I have to remind myself of that because I refuse to talk on the phone. Just text me. Don't call me. Yeah.
Cree Myles: we're gonna, but also as what I said about trying to me working through whatever I've learned about friendships that are incorrectly I really have been working to be a friend and learning how to do it and have friendships and relationships that inspire me and that fill me up. so also just in the past two years just wonderful women have come into my life and…
Cree Myles: it's keeping my feet on the ground.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. I think community has always been important and I think a lot of white people are coming around to the idea that it's important because some of us are just becoming aware of …
Jeremy Schumacher: how fascist America has always been And so, it's something I've had to do personally, but also recommending to a lot of my clients read black authors, read indigenous writers. judgment day happened for the indigenous communities here and…
Cree Myles: always Jim Crow is a fascist state.
Cree Myles: Yeah. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: they're still getting together in community and dancing. we can learn from that.
Cree Myles: Yes. humans are resilient among other things. We can survive some wild s***.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. We can be really* stupid, but also work our way through it.
Cree Myles: Yeah. Right. Yes. Both the yes and…
Cree Myles: of that is so real. Yes. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Fantastic.
Jeremy Schumacher: In one episode you did make a comment about how black people don't play D and D. And I do just want to amend that for you to say not only is one of the most famous D and D players, but also …
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, if I can be so bold as a white person to say I think black people would really enjoy Dn D if they gave it a try.
Cree Myles: I can …
Cree Myles: okay, I can say the homie book content creator Isa jumped in my DMs with a quickness like, "Girl, we play D and D. You don't play D and D." I was like, "I sure don't." but I'm always open to black people are everywhere. I do my own people a disservice when I say we don't do that. And I think sometimes we get into this space of we accidentally bleed our cultural norms into…
Cree Myles: what we do and do not do with experiences which we do. I've camped my whole life and people like black people don't camp.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Right.
Cree Myles: My dad was a game warden. of course we were camping, there were rifles in the house.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Right.
Cree Myles: So none of us are monolithic really. That's it.
Jeremy Schumacher: And I think I talked about being our diversion before, but all of when you have that intersectional lens,…
Jeremy Schumacher: we're all have some privilege and all have some marginalized identity pieces of ourselves. It's right not monolithic.
00:55:00
Cree Myles: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jeremy Schumacher: I love the podcast.
Jeremy Schumacher: I love that you're doing work to make reading more accessible. I love adding to my infinite list of books to read. if people want to follow you,…
Cree Myles: Yes. …
Jeremy Schumacher: if people want to follow your work, if people want to check out your podcast, where do they go? How do they find you?
Cree Myles: I hang out too much. I'm chronically online on Instagram. it's just my name, Cree Miles is spelled with a Y. Cre tree with a C. and the podcast is these books are for everybody. That's in the link on Instagram,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah,…
Cree Myles: but you can also look that up on YouTube. It's on Apple podcast. It's on Spotify. we are work. We're trying really hard to put this next episode out. We're just trying to tweak things, so it's slowing us down. and is that the things that I'm doing right now? Yeah, that's where I am in these digital streets.
Jeremy Schumacher: for we'll have the links in the show notes so people can find it.
Cree Myles: Yeah. Awesome.
Jeremy Schumacher: And you mentioned your husband Brian is a sometimes volleyball sub for me too.
Jeremy Schumacher: So shout out to the sometimes host you have of Brian as well. he's bumped up to permanent
Cree Myles: Yeah, he's my permanent co-host.
Cree Myles: Yeah, we're doing all of our book conversations together and then I still want to have interviews with other people and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Cree Myles: that's just like Brian has a whole job you guys So he can't just be globbing on to my job. that'd be unfair to him. but he was like, "If you get Ruth Wilson Gilmore on there, you better not interview her without me." So he's like, "Those are the type of people he wants to talk to." But the authors that I'm trying to reach out to and the rappers that I dream of speaking to, he's just like, "You got it. But I will be here to talk with you about books on the other days." Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. and for listeners of this podcast, if you like the chatty, conversational ADHDness of it all, that's very much C's got even more energy and excitement. An old cynical man at this point.
Cree Myles: I know you're not old. Maybe cynical, but not old.
Jeremy Schumacher: Definitely cynical.
Jeremy Schumacher: So yes,…
Cree Myles: I love that.
Jeremy Schumacher: check out these books are for everybody and…
Cree Myles: Thank you so much for asking me.
Jeremy Schumacher: like I said, we'll have that stuff in the show notes so it's easy to find. Great. This has been incredible. Thanks for coming on and taking the time.
Cree Myles: This is always like a reprieve. I know you just had to work, but I just got to sit here and yap, which was wonderful.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. being a guest on podcast is great.
Cree Myles: It's great. It's so great. So, I love this.
Jeremy Schumacher: Absolutely. …
Cree Myles: Was great.
Jeremy Schumacher: and to all our wonderful listeners, thanks for tuning in again. we will be back next week with another new episode. Take care, everyone.
Meeting ended after 00:58:16 👋
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