Your Therapist Needs Therapy 125 - Witchcraft and Wellness Without the Bullsh*t with B from What the Hex

Jeremy is joined this week by B, owner of Tres Ojos and co-founder of What the Hex. They discuss the rise of modern witchcraft, emphasizing B’s “no-bullshit” spirituality grounded in ethically sourced, non-hierarchical practices. They explore how people leaving organized religion seek ritual and community, and how commercialized spirituality and wellness cultures can replicate the same harms as organized religion when left unchecked. The episode closes with a look at the What the Hex markets as intentionally crafted community hubs that prioritize safety, inclusivity, and connection.

Check out B and her work at tr3sojos.com, and follow her for updates and future offerings on Instagram @tr3s.ojos. To keep tabs and see who will be at upcoming markets, follow @whatthehexmke, and give C.C. (co-founder of What the Hex) some love by following @beebattystudio. Shop local! Visit What the Hex on December 7th, or check out the shop over in west Milwaukee!

What the Hex is hosted at Dresden Castle - 3775 E Underwood Ave, Cudahy, WI 53110

Tres Ojos/Bee Batty Studio - 4916 W Greenfield Ave Suite A, West Milwaukee, WI 53214

As always, Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube. To show your love for the show you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well! None of my online work would be possible without my media maven Kenny, so check out their work as well at kenlingdesign.com

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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.

If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.

Transcript

Attendees

Jeremy Schumacher, Tres Ojos

Transcript

Jeremy Schumacher: Hello and welcome to another edition of Your Therapist Needs Therapy, the podcast where two mental health professionals talk about their mental health journeys and how they navigate mental wellness while working in the mental health field. I'm your host, Jeremy Schumacher, licensed marriage and family therapist. Today is a special guest episode. I'm super stoked. this is a person who I met at Pride last year and local Milwaukee small business all the cool things that I like to highlight and we'll probably talk about religious trauma too but we've got some cool stuff to talk about today. I am joined by be owner and operator at T OS. We practice the pronunciation and I'm just so white that I knew I was going to get it wrong. Be thanks for joining me today.

Tres Ojos: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Tres Ojos: I adore you and everything that you do. So, I'm super stoked to connect again. And I totally forgot we met at Pride. So, that's awesome.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, we were …

Jeremy Schumacher: what stallmates. we had our little setup right next to each other.

Tres Ojos: Good neighbors. Yeah, it worked so well.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, we were booth neighbors and it was lovely. I was doing religious trauma stuff and you had a sign that said be gay and do witchcraft right next to my booth. It just works really wonderfully together.

Tres Ojos: You being dressed up as gay Jesus and the sign was really great for marketing and…

Tres Ojos: traffic for both of us.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, it was great.

Jeremy Schumacher: And then I got to check out your shop and obviously working with CC and what the heck market event have been awesome. but let's back up a little bit. We'll get to all of that cool stuff. can you talk a little bit about what you do and how it is that you came to be doing

Tres Ojos: Yeah, absolutely.

Tres Ojos: I would love to.

Jeremy Schumacher: the be gay and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Sorry. You're frozen. Hang on. It's me.

Tres Ojos: 

Tres Ojos: happened? What happened?

Jeremy Schumacher: I lost you for a sec. It was me.

Tres Ojos: You are so funny.

Jeremy Schumacher: It popped up on mine. I'll run it back. This is why we have the safety net of editing. I did jinx it because I told my media person there shouldn't be many edits and I was like, I just ruined it by making it bad. if you don't mind, can you introduce yourself a little bit and talk about the work you do and how it is that's what you came to be doing?

Tres Ojos: Absolutely. So, I am the owner of the Soos.  I am a professional bruha, which just means that I do witchcraft and magic full-time. I create a lot of items to help people on their healing journey. So, I do anything kind of like witchy, but also jewelry, candles, sprays, anything and everything that I make is all intention and magic based. and so everything has a meaning as to why I'm making it and the reason that I'm making it. and then I also teach and host a lot of events.

Tres Ojos: So, like you said, I host What the Hex, which I am the co-host of, and so those are seasonal witch markets that I do. I also teach tarot. I run meditations. I host cacao ceremonies. I teach how to do spell work and things like that. I do everything and anything you can think of under the umbrella of magic,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Tres Ojos: witchcraft, which is all really just like energy work. those are all just like terms that kind of like I intertwine and interchange with each other. and then the basis of everything that I do is to do no*** spirituality. So, I'm not here to tell you you need stuff or tell you that you're cursed and blah blah blah when you're not. and then I also make sure that I make everything modernized and accessible. a lot of the times I feel like when it comes to any of this spiritual, witchy world, it can make it seem like you need a lot of things in order to heal or succeed and you don't.

Tres Ojos: And then I would say another thing that I do differently is that I always tell people to go to therapy. as someone that suffers from mental health and I'm very vocal about it. I share my good days. I share my bad days. I share all of my diagnosises and everything that I have and hold. And so I like to be transparent about that because the more I share about myself, the more that people will know that it's normalized and that it's normal to have mental health things. but also I am very very firm at you don't just need spirituality,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.  Yeah.

Tres Ojos: You also need to know that those are not things that are interchangeable. So I am very good with my energy sessions and my energy workings of making sure that I do everything that I am able to do and not any of the things that I'm not trained in and not any of the things that I didn't go to get to school for like y'all did. And so I like to make sure that I always am like, "Yeah, here's a list of therapists to also use handinhand with everything that I do too, which is why it was so awesome meeting you and to put you on just to have as a resource.

Jeremy Schumacher: And…

Tres Ojos: It's been so awesome. you want especially trusted men to be honest. that list is two people. So it's very low. So those are all things that are super important to me that I like to do my workings around.

00:05:00

Jeremy Schumacher: And I'm I mean, I'm happy to I mean, you've offered us a space for me to be at some of the hex events. I'll be at the one that's coming up here. but also I think it's important as somebody who works in religious trauma to highlight hey, here are spaces. Here are the things to look out for when you are looking for a more holistic spirituality. Because I tell people often I'm not opposed to religion. it's a lot of the colonized hierarchical b******* that comes along with organized religion that's…

Tres Ojos: thousand%. Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: where the harm comes from.

Jeremy Schumacher: And so I wanted to reach out with you, talk to you, and be able to say yeah, what is this no b******* part? Because I think so many people hear things like witchcraft, hear things like magic, and certainly there's a trend, I would say, in pagan spaces over the past couple of years that I've noticed towards witchiness as a vibe. but then some of the indigenous practices and some of the things that maybe are more natural or more connected in nature that I think that's what people are looking for when they leave organized religion. When I see people who are exeangelicals or Catholic, ex Mormons, like they're interested in things that are natural.

Jeremy Schumacher: They're interested in things that are a little bit more indigenous based. So can you talk that was a really rambly question but when you say no b**** spirituality when you are somebody who do practicing spirituality what does that mean on your

Tres Ojos: Yeah, absolutely.

Tres Ojos: So the basis of that would be like I am always screaming about cultural appropriation holy s*** is westernized spirituality founded on just appropriating everything. I try and do it in a way where I'm not just being a b**** about it and just saying you suck because of this because that just makes people mad, but being like,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Tres Ojos: let's educate you on why this is wrong and what are alternatives that you can do. basic things like white sage, super basic things like understanding that you should always start with your own culture and start there.  And then if you are questioning whether you should or shouldn't be able to do something, then research it or ask somebody. Ask me. If I don't know the answer to it, then I'm more than happy to find out an answer. so a huge part is making sure that we're not appropriating and that we're focusing on your own culture. and also being kind to the earth and all of that. And then also making sure that we are not treading the line of spiritual psychosis.

Tres Ojos: Yes, I believe in that we are all able to work our spiritual gifts. I really do believe that we're all able to be in tune on different levels. but I will never feed into things that tread on that line of spiritual psychosis which I see a lot of and so told me I need to do this. If it is negative, it's not spirit. It's not your ancestors. It's not your deities. It is not like you really have to know the difference between positive spiritual experiences that you're having with anybody that you're doing any work with if that's what you do or whether you need to see somebody to get that extra help if you're getting any of those negative thoughts. Because that is the difference between truly being in your gifts and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: spiritual psychosis is if it's negative it's wrong. we're not doing that. We're not hurting ourel and we're not hurting other people.  So, I would say that's the biggest thing of where I'm no b******. I'm not here to lie to you when I do tarot readings. I'm not here to give you fluffy little, your life is so great. I'm here to hold space for you and to challenge in the way that you're thinking and the way that you're treating yourself.  I guess a huge part of the foundation of everything that I do is it sounds so cliche but self-love is such a root of everything and that's super hard for people because we were not taught that. So we are completely changing our brain to try and put oursel first when our entire life we were told to put everybody else first. And so having that change really allows you to know how to fill your cup before you're able to pour into other people.

Jeremy Schumacher: have you seen sort of the witchy vibes? when did I leave organized religion? Almost eight years ago now. so I'm a newbie to it and so maybe I'm just noticing the trend as somebody who's newer to it, but definitely seeing some of that. I'll speak as a white person here. white women in pagan spaces doing some culturally questionable things. White dudes definitely like doing patriarchal hierarchical b*******. I see a lot of that even in some of the pagan spaces that I've been in. but is there a cultural shift around an openness or an appreciation for some of the witchcraft stuff or is it vibes based? Everyone likes Halloween.

00:10:00

Jeremy Schumacher: So, we're trying to do Halloween year round.

Tres Ojos: You're so funny.

Tres Ojos: I would say it's a little bit of all of the above. I would say right around COVID time was the hype of crystals and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Okay. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: all of that stuff. And that's how I started doing this. I was super stoked. I was like, "Yes, rocks. I'm going to do this and I love it."  And that's really how I started. And I will always love crystals. But I guess to kind of answer what you're saying it is definitely kind of trended a little bit upward towards there. I will say even through my journey I started dabbling into spirituality as part of my sobriety journey. my wife and I started this business around the same time.

Tres Ojos: and we each got sober from alcohol on our own and from drugs as and so we kind of decided to start our own journey separately and then they kind of merged together and then the business kind of merged with that too. And so understanding if I'm not using things and I kind of do different rituals or things to ground myself I feel less like the world is falling apart and I can make it through. And so, while doing that, I will say that I've had experiences where I've had men and other people…

Tres Ojos: who are really on this power dynamic of I insert any sort of b** label here, I am a shaman, a priest, a whatever the f***. and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. I'm there.

Tres Ojos: who try really hard to tell you that this is the way that you need to do things, you need to buy all these things, you need to do things this way. and so I have had those experiences and that's something I try so hard to navigate people away from. as much as I try to be very business neutral and be not necessarily just be like these people suck, I try really hard to promote the people that I do that I do agree with and that you are doing this right.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Sure.

Tres Ojos: So yeah, within all that, I see it all the time, of people doing things that they're not supposed to be doing. And I'll say 50/50. Half of the time, people gener truly genuinely don't know. I will say a lot of times it's like older people who …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Tres Ojos: this is how I was taught and blah blah blah. And it's let us dissect why this is wrong. and then the other part is I think that people don't care. so I see both sides. I see all of the things I see when you think about basic crystal whatever you're thinking about chakras and you're thinking about spurning sage and whatever and all of those things are okay in as long as you're dissecting where's the sage coming from? why are we burning this? Not white sage because it's endangered.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yep.

Tres Ojos: So what else are things that we can burn? Where do chakras come from? here we have a very westernized approach with a lot of that stuff roots from yoga and things that people are being taught there. so I think I see all of the things. I definitely am okay with people being like I'm attracted to this because of the vibe. I like the aesthetic of this. but also just like making sure that you are appreciating where things come from and researching where you're getting things from. And so I'd say I see a little bit of everything. I will say now more than ever is we are more open to these kinds of conversations. You're seeing these types of stores and these type of events now more than ever.

Tres Ojos: Which is great. We do need more spiritual practices, but just organized religion, this s* can get real culty. This s*** can get real bad, real dark, real quick. so all the sides,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: all the sides to it.

Jeremy Schumacher: And it's interesting, right, because I've been a therapist and worked in the mental health field for a long time and I think I mean we have so much research that says people's mental health is deteriorating just across all demographics and that peaked a lot during co but also we know church attendance is way down and organized religion is hemorrhaging people and so people are looking for a way to connect people are looking for ritual isn't something that is belongs organized religion

Jeremy Schumacher: and use ritual because it's hardwired into our human brains to participate in ritual. That's how our brains and our bodies can experience something together. And so I think there is this desire certainly for people to find a way to connect and to cultivate or create meaning for some of these things in a way that is more authentic or…

00:15:00

Jeremy Schumacher: is more aligned with their ethics than whatever geographic religion they happen to be born into.

Tres Ojos: Yeah, absolutely. it's very silly to me when I have people that are church-based be very against the things that I do because it's like you look at church rituals.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Tres Ojos: You're drinking the blood in the body of Christ. You're blowing out birthday candles. We're, all of these things that it's like those Words are spells. Everything that you say is things that you're, I believe in prayer in my own way, but we are praying things. we are manifesting things. These are all interchangeable terms. so it's super interesting getting even all the sides of that as well of people assuming that I'm always any people believing in God or that word or that verbiage because to me it's whatever you want it to me universe,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: Goddess, all interchangeable words. I am against anybody who tells you that what you believe is wrong. and I'm somebody who super suffers from religious trauma, too. I grew up a little bit Catholic and then switched to Mormonism. what the f*** is that? And then didn't do that and now I'm a witch. super nuts. So, I feel like I've had every aspect of that too.  And a lot of my clients have also had very similar things were just very heavy religious trauma and the basis of that is being told that you have to live your life this way otherwise you're going to hell right

Tres Ojos: 

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think people sometimes leave the church but how I sort of describe it is like they leave the beliefs but not the church structure or they take the hierarchy with them. And I think it's something where approaching spirituality from a decolonized lens is much different than just not being part of an organized religion. And so looking at right where are the actual materials coming from?  What culture is this coming from? what's the heritage from this? How is that practiced respectfully, ethically? Because again, I was raised Lutheran in southeast Wisconsin, very white, very dull. for me ancestral heritage is pretty devoid of any meaning. It's been sanitized and whatever Jesuits came over and stole a bunch of lands that's probably the heritage I'm coming from.

Jeremy Schumacher: And so it's hard to connect to some of those things. And so, when I left organized religion and found some of the paganism and some of the druid stuff, it was all very appealing because there's a comfort to some of the organization. But then sometimes you're like, " this is still the same issues that organized religion has…

Jeremy Schumacher: because we've got different levels of druids or we have different levels of whatever." And you find that hierarchy just repeating itself because people are not necessarily decolonizing the work they're doing.

Jeremy Schumacher: And they're just leaving the belief system out.

Tres Ojos: a thousand%.

Tres Ojos: And I think that that's one of the biggest things is you're giving me a red flag if you are immediately allowing yourself to enter any conversation with these are my certifications and this is my label and I was whatever. the biggest thing about knowing whether spaces are safe or not is being treated as an equal. I run things and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yep. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: I hold spaces but I am the leader of you and your feelings. I am a spiritual healer in the sense of holding space. I'm not doing the healing for you. And that's the biggest thing is that people like to think that they hold the power to do these things when you don't. You are just helping facilitate the spaces for people to do their own work. So I think that's the biggest thing there.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think I mean that speaks in therapy jargon talking about informed consent like that people get to make their decisions. You might come with a wealth of knowledge and you're willing to share that knowledge. But it's not inscribing knowledge onto people. It's not saying you have to do it this way because I know I'm right.

Jeremy Schumacher: It's here. Let me help you make a good decision that works well for you.

Tres Ojos: I love that.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I see this is true I think with religious trauma, but I see it in wellness spaces, too. licensed therapists need something, but then there's a whole wild west of these ideas around life coaches and healers and, I've done a lot of training around psychedelics…

Jeremy Schumacher: because I think whenever it gets legalized, it'll be an important part of therapy.

Tres Ojos: Yeah, a thousand%.

Jeremy Schumacher: But I see a lot of that stuff too where shamans and some of the healers and…

Tres Ojos: And that's a huge appropriation thing too.

Jeremy Schumacher: it's like Yeah.

00:20:00

Tres Ojos: A thousand% within people thinking that they can capitalize any sort of what are the biggest things that we see any sort of IASKA stuff like why do you feel like you are qualified to do that thing at all?

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: We can definitely use plant medicine in a safe way to help you excel a thousand% but that a thousand% is in wellness spaces where people are doing weird stuff in back rooms without having true ethical responsibility behind that and what that means. and so yeah,…

Tres Ojos: 

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: that gets hard. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think, we're in Wisconsin, so I'll talk about Aaron Rogers for a sec, but you have a bunch of wealthy white dudes who, say they had a mystical experience or, they had that awakening kind of thing. And I'm not begrudging anybody that experience, but then that becomes the $4,000 dollar retreat for 4 days to do an Iawaska ceremony in some country where it isn't illegal like it is in ours, but no thought of the culture, no thought of ethically sourcing those things. And it becomes again this colonized version really of what was a medicinal and a ritual practice.

Tres Ojos: a thousand%. there's definitely things that are open to people and I think that the way that you're talk like stating that is super beautiful.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Tres Ojos: Where is this coming from? why did we get here? yes, it's amazing we have this experience, whatever, but let's make sure that we're giving credit where credit is due of who brought this here, where the work was made for you to be able to do that. And also understand that you're very privileged to be able to just go and do that. you literally just paid to have a spiritual awakening, you know what I mean? I'm glad and I'm not taking that away from him, but for sure. Yeah. it's essentially just making sure that you're trying to filter everything so that it's like entering people's brains in an ethical way of cool we can do some of these things…

Tres Ojos: but let's also make sure that we're dissecting and researching things

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: What has it been like your experience in just the Milwaukee area around spirituality and some of these things? Because I'll just share for me it's been weird to promote religious trauma because I don't feel like a lot of people in the area talk about maybe don't use that lingo. I think people who have experienced it relate right away, but it's from as a business owner, it's been hard to promote that side of things because it's just privileged to be religious and…

Jeremy Schumacher: white and Christian, I would argue, but that's the Midwest sort of I think cultural piece to it still.

Jeremy Schumacher: What's it been like for you as a business owner with a metaphysical shop is what Google calls it, what sort of space do you find people are sort of coming to work with you or finding the work that you do?

Tres Ojos: So I see kind of the side of similar to yours…

Tres Ojos: 's so we are in West Milwaukee is where my storefront is. I do not get I won't say any…

Tres Ojos: because thank you to anybody who's around here that actually does come. But for the most part it's not like foot traffic. It's not like people being excited. If anything like the city gave us lots of trouble opening up I don't think that we were necessarily wanted here and that's okay.

Jeremy Schumacher: for sure. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: That's all right. I think it's confusing to people. and so I see all the sides on this issue as well where it's I am very grateful that there is a lot especially within the bipac wellness community of people really trying to make sure that we are sticking together and making sure that we are promoting each other, collabing with the right people and things like that. so that we are not getting but we don't get the same support as other people do.

Tres Ojos: There are shops close by that that make a thousand times more that get a lot more traffic that get a lot more anything. And at the end of the day it's because of the aesthetic. It is because you walk in somewhere and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: it is full to the brim with a bunch of wholesale b**. And I don't do that. And so the people that come in here and get it right away. But some people I hear all the time have you been to that one real witch shop?" I'm like, " are you serious right now?" what consider is real to you like being full with a bunch of b******* people don't know. so I think a lot of people don't know things. but as far as clientele and stuff I think it's a lot of people who want to work on themselves in a different way. and also I think a lot of the times when I enter that conversation of therapy with people too it's also telling people that you don't have to settle for one that sucks. that's just the same with me.

00:25:00

Tres Ojos: if you don't vibe with me, I'll give you a whole list of people that I vouch for.

Tres Ojos: And it's just like everything is trial and error. the types of things that you're doing is trial and error. and so it's business-wise, I think it's a weird time in the world. I feel nuts like promoting stuff as everything is going on right now.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: So I always try and make sure that I do what I can to be vocal about my beliefs and what I feel like we can do as a community, too.  So I feel like does that kind of answer question. Mhm.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. I think, there's still Milwaukee and Madison here in Wisconsin are the progressive spaces, but from a religious perspective in December, you're going to drive around and still see a bunch of nativity scenes. it's still sort of the cultural norm. It's not based on anything, but that's still sort of where things are at.

Jeremy Schumacher: even where you're talking about opening a business and whether the city is supportive of it or not. I think my experience working with late diagnosed neurody divergent folks and working a lot with the queer community there's a lot of natural overlap between people who are looking for authentic non-hirarchical spiritual practices.  I think part of that is being queer in a, culturally hegemonic sort of patriarchical space like America where white men have been in charge of stuff for far too long. but also I think the neurodyiverent part is not looking for something that's real prescriptive, looking for something that is a little bit more outside the box or is something that you can build to suit your own needs.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think segueing into what the hecks markets like building that community is really important because it's not something that people always leave a church or leave an abusive setting and then they just find something that fits better. You sometimes have to build that community from the ground So, how did that play into starting what the heck markets and you talk about collaborating with the right people talk a little bit about we've got one coming up,…

Jeremy Schumacher: December 7th. talk a little bit about how the idea came together and then maybe let's bring it to the present moment of the upcoming one.

Tres Ojos: Yang. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: I host with So, Cece owns Batty Studio. and we have our businesses together here at the storefront. and so, we decided to start a seasonal witch market for a couple of reasons. I started my business by doing a million popups. I love being out in the community and I love doing stuff, but it's really hard to find either sometimes I'm too weird or I'm too alternative or I'm too witchy or whatever. And I don't ever want to dull myself down. and so creating a space where the vibe. Witchy was like this is what it's about spiritual things, about things in that realm.

Tres Ojos: and then also making sure that we are people who are running a show that give a f***. we have do a lot of shows where people are just there to take your money and you show up, here's the space, that's what you paid for. and so there's a lot more to it that we do. We try to really make sure that we're reaching out to community and letting them know that when you come here, one, you're going to get all the people that we vouch for. so all of that appropriation that I talked about before, literally says on our application, like we do not f*** with appropriation. if there's anything that I find that I cannot get a solid answer as to where it's from. did you make this, whatever, then it's not going to be there or you're not going to be there. So you can trust all the vendors that are there, which is huge. whether they're giving you services or whether they are selling their items.

Tres Ojos: all things that are vouched for and all people that we hand selected for that. we also do free offerings. So for this one, we've got a tealight craft that we're doing and then we also are having a free wrapping station. So anything that you buy at the market, you can then go downstairs and get it wrapped. we essentially are trying to provide a space for community of minded folks. So, people who want to do witchy spiritual things, people who want to be in the vibe of a coven without having something so super organized, we're just there to host a good time. everything is always themed. so this one is tithings and tra traditions. So, this is really about what do you hold true to this holiday season within your practice, which looks different for everybody. So, this one is on Sunday,…

00:30:00

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Tres Ojos: so December 7th. And so I'm really excited about that. The market is in Kadi at Dresden Castle. So that place is awesome to have that event there and so we also prioritize queer and bipok vendors too. So a lot of the folks that you'll u meet with are one of those. And so I basically just wanted to do something where people cared about what they were doing, which is so crazy. But yeah, every little detail matters. and it's always a really great time for people to connect. this is a really great place for you to see different readers or different people that offer different kinds of services so that you can kind of get to know people and…

Tres Ojos: whether these are people that you want to work with. And I'm super stoked to have you there again as a resource. Holiday vibes people will love to talk to you about religious drama that day.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: I joke it's not even a joke. just my practice from November to December is all family of origin drama and stress around meeting people's expectations that aren't really based on anything.

Tres Ojos: Mhm.

Jeremy Schumacher: So, I even just love the theme of this gathering. We're coming off of, the very awkward holiday that is Thanksgiving, of the whiteashing of a genocide. and then the commercialism that follows it with Black Friday sales and all the spending that goes along with it.

Jeremy Schumacher: And so a market that is designed to be local and have people vendors who are vetted to make sure they fit and they're doing things in a healthy and sustainable way. And then also just talk about traditions not that sanitized devoid of any meaning version. We just do it this way because we've always done it this way.

Jeremy Schumacher: But being like meaning making is up to us. We get to create our own meaning. And if we have traditions that suck or we have traditions that don't vibe with us, we can do something different. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: Yeah, absolutely.

Tres Ojos: Yeah, the timing of this is absolutely perfect. I just always feel that collective holiday stress and it's so hard because it's now more than ever we're still being pressured to spend money on b******* and it's like gift giving is beautiful. buying things that matter, buying beautiful artwork, buying things that people have put love,…

Tres Ojos: time, and effort into is very different than big box garbage that we're getting. And so there's a lot of ethical layers to that too of you're supporting local small business, which is where we need to be keeping our money in the first place. and also buying stuff that was sustainably, ethically, intentionally made, which is going to hit a lot harder to whoever the receiver is than whatever else you would get elsewhere. So,

Jeremy Schumacher: Yep. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And we kicked off the episode talking about meeting at Pride, but it's these different sort of nodes that you can connect with people and finding somebody at the market who, does tattoo work or who creates things or I'm drawing a blank blotpan does the antler art and then also makes their own mead and all this cool stuff.

Jeremy Schumacher: there are all these different connections that you make and then you give that as a gift or you support that business and that person that you give that gift to goes, this is incredible and they're going to go check out their storefront or whatever." And I think it's what people are looking for in anti- capitalism and…

Jeremy Schumacher: decolonized spaces are community. And that's what this is. This is not capitalism come spend your money here. This is like come meet cool people who are aligned and check out their work and support them in whatever way makes sense to you. that's how you actually get the community that you're looking for.

Tres Ojos: Yeah, absolutely.

Tres Ojos: Those community connections are made based on being in a space where people are all trying to be on the same type of vibe and hanging out with each other and talking and having those conversations. And that is the most beautiful thing that I see anytime I get on stage and I just look around and I'm like this is the part that was worth it where I see people just geek to find things that are very within their vibe or their culture or anything like that you don't just see every day. and so that is super important and that's also what helps us as artists, business owners is word of mouth is my biggest thing is You telling people about my store or my market or anything is the biggest way to support your community without having to spend a penny.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: It is so huge for your just conversations to start in that way. and I think now more than ever we need that.  We need to be in spaces that feel safe and that feel really just like where you can be yourself too. Yeah. Which also I'm going to bring this up because I didn't post about it.  I don't think there's any way that you would know about it, but I wish that you were at the last hex because it was the first time that I had protesters protest against us and it was during the muertos event and they made it really it was hard because it was obviously the muertos is a Mexican-based holiday that is we had a lot of people within that culture coming into the space lots

00:35:00

Tres Ojos: of Hispanic, Latino folks and having a bunch of weird white people outside holding signs and being weird is super sketchy now more than ever. And so that sucked.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: They also didn't know what they were protesting. So they were against I guess us worshiping ancestors, which always** gets me. I saw something the other day that was like, "So your grandma is a demon? Is that what you think?" because that's what we're honoring. that was our first time we ever had that and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. the six foot three guy…

Tres Ojos: I think that you would have been a really excellent person to go outside to have a conversation with them. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: who looks like white Jesus. Yeah. no, it's and we met at Pride. I gave a bunch of my cards to the protesters outside Pride because they're always protesters outside Pride. But again, I'm throwing a lot of shade at white people, deservedly so.

Jeremy Schumacher: But it is one of those spaces where as a straight presenting white male those are things that I want to step up for. Those are things that I want to like right I don't have a problem stepping outside and talking to pro protesters. I'll talk to the protesters at Pride and be like hey when you want to stop being a bigot you can call me because you're just suffering from religious trauma like you're trying to inflict on other people. And that's not a great way to fill my business but that's not what I'm trying to do.

Jeremy Schumacher: I'm trying to show people that it's okay to come in here. you are safe, you are loved, f*** these bigots. yeah, they're probably also just deeply racist because of the ICE and…

Tres Ojos: to 1,000%.

Tres Ojos: A thousand%.

Jeremy Schumacher: the fascist movement against demonizing whatever marginalized community.

Tres Ojos: And they're out here more than ever now, for sure.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: And they were also handing out that anti-witchcraft stuff, which is like you can believe whatever you want to believe, but it was just like you didn't know…

Tres Ojos: what was actually happening.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yes. …

Jeremy Schumacher: if you're not queer or neurode divergent or a witch, but you still want to come, again, there's space for again just being sometimes that overtly straight white dude…

Tres Ojos: Yes. A thousand%.

Jeremy Schumacher: who can go to things and make people feel safe too.

Jeremy Schumacher: like that water.

Tres Ojos: Though and I will say those were definitely the people who stepped up and who were like I can go and stand outside to make sure people feel safe and my wife is still out there and she's brown and face tattoos everywhere. She still stayed out there and was making sure and being like you can come inside. Are you okay? you don't have to take the paper that they are giving you …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: but yeah that's what it takes is just everyone doing their part when you see something happening everywhere.

Jeremy Schumacher: And again, I mean, I think the cultural consciousness around things like community and what does mutual aid actually look like while we're still dealing with latestage capitalism. And again, that's what this is. This is participating in community. it is your neighbors who are going to be there to help you out in the case of a natural disaster,…

Tres Ojos: Yeah, absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: in the case of an authoritarian regime coming into town. Like that that's who we need to connect with is the people who we live by.

Jeremy Schumacher: I think it was maybe David Cross, the comedian who has talked about just replacing spells and chants for thoughts and prayers because again I mean the privilege of white Christians in this country to demonize and try and marginalize other communities just like it's just a deeply misplaced approach to you talked about self-love,…

Jeremy Schumacher: they can't love themselves and so they try and interrupt it for everyone else too.

Tres Ojos: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: It's like there's so many other things that you could be doing with your time. going to do something good would have been really awesome to do instead.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Or just** stay home and watch the Packers and…

Tres Ojos: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: enjoy your life that way,

Tres Ojos: Yeah. Because it was everybody…

Jeremy Schumacher: I don't know. I don't understand.

Tres Ojos: who has religious trauma also this is weird.

Tres Ojos: I'm like I know.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yep. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: So, the one Dresdston Castle, which is down in if you're not familiar with Dres Castle, it's like a converted church. it's an old church building. it's very beautiful. As somebody with religious drama and who works with religious drama, I still hold very much a soft spot for church buildings being very cool spaces.

Tres Ojos: 

Tres Ojos: Yeah. Yep.

00:40:00

Jeremy Schumacher: So it's a very beautiful space.

Tres Ojos: Cool stained glass.

Jeremy Schumacher: is very cool space. but how if people can't make it this weekend, how often are we running the markets? Where can people go to not just connect with what the hex, but also follow your work and some of the services you offer? How can people connect

Tres Ojos: So I am on Instagram and Facebook under thooos at is the number three s period ojos. so you can find me that way. I also have a website too. and yeah, so all socials I'm on there and then I have all of what the heck stuff connected to there as well. So the markets are done seasonally, excuse me.  And then we also have events that we do on smaller scale here at the shop. so those are always posted on socials as well. I've got tickets on websites for everything that I'm doing there. And then we're also always open to hold anything that you as a community want to come and host too. Whether you want to come and host any sort of craft workshop any sort of lecture thing or anything too.

Tres Ojos: I'm always here to listen to what your ideas are…

Tres Ojos: because that is how we grow together as a community is by helping each other out wherever we can and I've got a space and so I would love if other people hit me up for that too.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, for sure.

Jeremy Schumacher: And Omen is in the shop, so you can always come in and see the black cat.

Tres Ojos: Yeah, our little Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, we'll have the links for the socials and…

Tres Ojos: I'm surprised she didn't come harass me right here. She's sleeping. I see her.

Jeremy Schumacher: for what the heck event coming up in the show notes so people can find that super easily. and if you're totally new and you haven't heard of any of this stuff, like come check it out. it's a good vibe. It's a good time. I don't know.

Jeremy Schumacher: I'm attending and also didn't review it a ton before recording here, but there's a food truck this time. Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: Yeah, there's food.

Tres Ojos: There's ic NA drinks. there's a bakery person.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: So you can also just come and hang out too. There are little tables and stuff for you to just sit. You can always introduce yourself to me. I would love to talk to anybody about anything too.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Tres Ojos: And yeah, if there's anything that you specifically want to dive into, I can always connect you with other people that are there too. That might be your vibe.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. It's again awesome community, very cool event. Come hang out December 7th and yeah, follow Bee's work on socials. We'll have all that stuff listed so people can check it out. Be thanks so much for doing all your work in the community, but b taking the time to chat with me today.

Meeting ended after 00:43:09 👋

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