Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Everyone needs help with their mental health, even mental health professionals. Join us as we have your therapist take a seat on the couch to talk about their own mental health journey!
Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Your Therapist Needs Therapy 145 - #notalltherapists
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Ugh. This week there’s drama to talk about. We’re talking about the recent online firestorm around TherapyJeff, whose response to CNN's reporting on a so-called "rape academy" website was not good. We’ll cover why the way he said it matters as much as what he was, with the best possible reading, trying to say. Before getting to the outcry, we slow down on the CNN story itself, including a closer look at that 62 million users claim and what media literacy on a topic this serious actually requires. It's a messy story with no clear good guys, and the goal is to think through it carefully rather than just post a hot take. Also, the title is a reference to a Maria Bamford joke that became a running gag on Arrested Development, because sometimes you need a little humor to lighten heavy topics.
As always, Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube. To show your love for the show you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well! None of my online work would be possible without my media maven Kenny, so check out their work as well at kenlingdesign.com
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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.
Thank you.
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Hello,
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and welcome to another edition of Your
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Therapist Needs Therapy,
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the podcast where sometimes two, three,
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four,
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just one therapist talk about their mental
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health journey and how they navigate
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mental wellness while working in the
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mental health field.
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I'm your host, Jeremy Schumacher.
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I'm a licensed marriage and family
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therapist.
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Today's a solo episode because sometimes
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when you're hosting a podcast and you're
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talking about controversial things,
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you don't invite guests on because,
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you know,
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people don't want to be involved in
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controversy i don't want to be involved in
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controversy i just detest poor media
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literacy and status quo hot takes so we're
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going to talk about some therapy drama
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we're going to talk about rape culture in
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america
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So if that's a trigger for you,
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take care of yourself, please.
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And don't listen.
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There's nothing of surprise at the end of
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this episode.
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So yeah, let's build some context.
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CNN published a report recently that the
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internet sort of took and ran with,
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I think in an unhelpful way.
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And not...
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In that reactionary way where everyone's
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supposed to have the quote-unquote correct
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opinion if you're a leftist,
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and anybody who isn't doing that is
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failing some sort of purity test,
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and also a bunch of people in trying
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to provide nuance ended up defending
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abusers, and that's not okay.
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like that's not a purity test thing that's
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just like uh yeah don't don't do that
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um therapy jeff who is a pretty big
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uh online therapy resource content creator
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i don't know what you call these people
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um posted something that landed very
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poorly i would say it was worded poorly
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he handled it poorly at time of me
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recording this episode he hasn't clarified
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anything or apologize for his lack of
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clarity.
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And yes, it's not great.
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So for context,
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I guess I'll start with the CNN article.
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The CNN article was a larger report,
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two of their
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reporters were sort of tracking this story
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down of men who were married or in
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committed relationships using date rape
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drugs or sleep drug,
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sleep inducing drugs to rape their wives,
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film it for content and post it online,
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which is terrible, right?
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That's gross.
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That's disgusting.
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That's horrific.
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There is no excuse for that.
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It is criminal and should be prosecuted.
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And the stories that are cited in the
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CNN report,
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an update to their story have been
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prosecuted so that is a good thing um
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the trauma and the betrayal of trust and
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just the violence enacted against these
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women is going to be a thing that
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is an ongoing healing process and is
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deeply up right there's no just because
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men go to jail doesn't mean like woohoo
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problem solved right um
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and so the reporting was pretty good you
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know honestly i'd seen um memes and i'd
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seen hot takes and i'd seen reactions on
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instagram on threads i try and stay off
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threads because gosh that site is way more
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conspiratorial than the other spaces i
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spent time on online and if twitter is
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worse than that or that's what twitter was
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i'm glad i never spent time on twitter
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um
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but a lot of what i had seen
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was sixty two million users of our online
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rape academy and that's not what the cnn
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report said um and i'm not somebody who's
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gonna push my glasses up here and be
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like well actually uh the amount of men
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enacting violence on women is higher than
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sixty two million right it doesn't matter
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what number we put on it i
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For purposes of clarity,
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and because I'm autistic, I want to say,
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here's what the report actually said,
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because I think using data and reporting
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on things correctly matters.
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And it doesn't matter what number we put
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on it.
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There is no statistic that is going to
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clarify the amount of violence that men
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enact on women that ever summarizes it,
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because so much goes unreported.
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The amount of violence that men enact on
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children
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especially little boys goes way
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underreported.
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This is a huge problem we know about.
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And so the number doesn't matter.
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I agree.
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Any number more than one is too many.
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And that's not what CNN was reporting on.
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CNN was reporting on this subculture of
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men who are specifically into the idea of
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raping their wives or their committed
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partners while they're asleep,
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which again is like wrong.
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rape is bad right i told you when
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i started recording this with the trigger
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warning that like there's no there's no
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hot take at the end of this right
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rape is bad i don't i don't think
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that should be a profound take um what's
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what the report the sixty two million
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thing again that where that number sort of
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came from that was the amount of visitors
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to a specific porn site that doesn't just
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have this just a porn site
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And again, if that number sounds alarming,
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this is where the statistics and the data
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matters.
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Talking about pornography gets really
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tricky because you will always have
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religious extremists who want to push
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their anti-porn, anti-lust,
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modesty laws that are
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bad for human beings um through these
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types of things so i always want to
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like caveat this to say sexual attraction
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is normal um it's part of human
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development humans exist on a spectrum
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around how they experience that and what
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they experience with it it has nothing to
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do with engaging in sex sexual acts i
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don't say there's nothing to do um but
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again what what happens in our head
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whether it's um
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Fantasy, whether it's desire,
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I was raised in a purity culture.
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So again, lust always meant a bad thing,
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but I don't think it is.
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But I don't use that word very often
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because of the negative connotation.
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Sexual desire is a normal,
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healthy thing that most people experience
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with some regularity once they hit
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puberty, sometimes even before, right?
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I don't mean to exclude or disparage the
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ace community.
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But again, it's, it's,
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I think a misconception that ace people
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never have any sexual desire or thoughts.
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It's just not with any consistency in
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their life.
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Again, even in that community,
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there's still a spectrum because sexuality
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for all humans exists on a spectrum and
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it is incredibly wide and incredibly
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diverse.
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So I'm not opposed to pornography
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existing.
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It's cavemen used to draw,
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sexy pictures on the walls in the caves
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right like this is this is something that
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has always been around and always existed
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because human desire sexual desire is
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normal natural part of human development
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so uh i'm not somebody who's like
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anti-porn and i always get nervous talking
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about these things that like it'll get
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clipped or some people will be like ah
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see porn's bad rape is bad
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Non-consensual sexual activity is bad.
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Abuses of power are bad.
00:08:06.428 --> 00:08:08.730
Pornography existing is not inherently
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bad.
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If pornography is engaging in those
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coercive practices in non-consensual
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activity, then yes, that's bad.
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So the sixty two million thing is like
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to a specific site.
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I'm not going to name it.
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I don't know, for covering myself.
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I swear all the time on here.
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I don't know that that matters.
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You can read the CNN article if it
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wants.
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It's not Pornhub, right?
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I will name that one because I think
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most people know about that.
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Like four billion users a month,
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not users,
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four billion clicks a month with an
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average length of visit between ten and
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fifteen minutes.
00:08:44.410 --> 00:08:45.951
Again, like this data is just out there,
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right?
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And that would be like saying, you know,
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so what CNN wasn't saying was sixty two
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million visitors a month to an online
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website.
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That is a rape academy.
00:08:57.711 --> 00:08:59.732
That's not what is in the report at
00:09:00.072 --> 00:09:00.234
all.
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And I think that's what got taken and
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run with online and turned into even
00:09:05.331 --> 00:09:06.951
shorter posts, which again,
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were just inaccurate.
00:09:08.774 --> 00:09:10.855
There were sixty two million users to
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visits to this one pornographic website.
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And on that one pornographic website,
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some of these.
00:09:21.565 --> 00:09:23.186
Men in this community who wanted to rape
00:09:23.206 --> 00:09:24.927
their wives while they were asleep were
00:09:24.967 --> 00:09:25.769
posting their videos.
00:09:26.461 --> 00:09:27.101
Right.
00:09:27.221 --> 00:09:28.602
And so, again, I mean,
00:09:29.264 --> 00:09:30.524
as somebody who's kink positive,
00:09:30.563 --> 00:09:32.164
as somebody who's pleasure positive,
00:09:32.225 --> 00:09:35.447
like consensual non-consent is a thing.
00:09:36.386 --> 00:09:38.389
It's something that needs to have good
00:09:38.428 --> 00:09:38.948
boundaries,
00:09:38.989 --> 00:09:41.409
be built on trust and mutual respect.
00:09:42.410 --> 00:09:44.591
It's a kink that both genders experience
00:09:44.692 --> 00:09:45.952
and can have space to.
00:09:47.365 --> 00:09:49.726
play in, enjoy other people in,
00:09:49.846 --> 00:09:51.207
and find community in.
00:09:51.248 --> 00:09:51.707
But again,
00:09:51.788 --> 00:09:54.629
it is something that can also go poorly,
00:09:54.870 --> 00:09:57.312
especially when we're introducing drugs
00:09:57.412 --> 00:09:57.831
into it.
00:09:59.153 --> 00:10:00.312
So it's something that requires a lot of
00:10:00.332 --> 00:10:00.734
boundaries,
00:10:00.774 --> 00:10:03.875
requires a lot of communication to make
00:10:03.894 --> 00:10:05.375
sure that it is consensual,
00:10:05.395 --> 00:10:06.517
a lot of safety parameters.
00:10:06.836 --> 00:10:08.477
This is not what those men were engaging
00:10:08.518 --> 00:10:08.597
in.
00:10:08.638 --> 00:10:11.399
These men were engaging in non-consensual
00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:13.160
sexual activity, which is rape,
00:10:13.760 --> 00:10:14.662
sexual assault.
00:10:16.342 --> 00:10:18.404
And there's a whole subset of this
00:10:18.445 --> 00:10:21.307
violence in relationships that we in the
00:10:21.327 --> 00:10:22.708
mental health community talk about as
00:10:23.509 --> 00:10:24.571
intimate partner violence.
00:10:24.671 --> 00:10:25.471
There's data on it.
00:10:25.491 --> 00:10:26.673
There's statistics on it.
00:10:27.714 --> 00:10:29.196
Again, growing up in purity culture,
00:10:29.216 --> 00:10:30.836
growing up fundamentalist religious,
00:10:31.677 --> 00:10:33.178
I wasn't taught anything about consent.
00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:35.301
Zero passages in the Bible are about
00:10:35.341 --> 00:10:35.721
consent.
00:10:36.041 --> 00:10:37.981
Lots about how much you can beat your
00:10:38.022 --> 00:10:39.143
slave before it's a sin,
00:10:39.182 --> 00:10:40.344
but none about consent.
00:10:41.203 --> 00:10:41.943
And again,
00:10:42.043 --> 00:10:44.525
so working with religious trauma,
00:10:44.586 --> 00:10:46.126
I have a bunch of people who I
00:10:46.206 --> 00:10:48.067
see where there have been instances of
00:10:48.707 --> 00:10:49.729
intimate partner violence,
00:10:49.808 --> 00:10:52.409
and they didn't know that's what they were
00:10:52.470 --> 00:10:52.789
doing.
00:10:54.171 --> 00:10:56.072
And that's yucky.
00:10:58.057 --> 00:10:59.798
Right and i'm not saying those people are
00:10:59.839 --> 00:11:02.499
yucky i'm saying the idea that somebody
00:11:02.538 --> 00:11:04.000
could be in a committed relationship and
00:11:04.019 --> 00:11:06.139
not realizing that realize what the what
00:11:06.181 --> 00:11:07.500
they're engaging in is harmful.
00:11:07.941 --> 00:11:09.221
Because they've been taught that their
00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:11.642
bodies belong to their spouses and that
00:11:11.782 --> 00:11:13.883
any and all sex outside of marriage is
00:11:13.942 --> 00:11:14.243
wrong.
00:11:14.764 --> 00:11:17.485
and any and all sex inside of a
00:11:17.546 --> 00:11:18.687
marriage is correct,
00:11:19.187 --> 00:11:23.871
and God-pleasing fucks people up of all
00:11:23.932 --> 00:11:26.134
genders across all the spectrums.
00:11:26.234 --> 00:11:28.196
Like, purity culture is rape culture,
00:11:28.716 --> 00:11:31.418
is a thing for anybody who studies this
00:11:31.479 --> 00:11:31.938
type of thing.
00:11:32.379 --> 00:11:32.679
So again,
00:11:33.100 --> 00:11:34.660
I see this type of thing often,
00:11:35.282 --> 00:11:38.485
intimate partner violence is something
00:11:38.504 --> 00:11:38.745
that
00:11:40.136 --> 00:11:41.298
a deal breaker for a lot of people
00:11:41.337 --> 00:11:43.940
and rightfully so and is something that
00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:45.942
people want to work through and understand
00:11:46.261 --> 00:11:47.663
um that people want to heal from um
00:11:49.125 --> 00:11:52.267
and so again there there is no one
00:11:52.326 --> 00:11:54.068
way to do this other than like it
00:11:54.089 --> 00:11:56.971
can't keep going on because it's harmful
00:11:57.831 --> 00:11:59.393
but again this this is the thing that
00:11:59.452 --> 00:12:00.974
we as therapists are aware of i'm a
00:12:00.994 --> 00:12:02.596
licensed marriage and family therapist so
00:12:02.615 --> 00:12:03.876
this is something that i've been trained
00:12:03.937 --> 00:12:07.539
in and have to deal with um it's
00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:08.900
never like fun
00:12:10.096 --> 00:12:11.118
But again,
00:12:11.298 --> 00:12:14.181
to help people grow and heal and get
00:12:14.201 --> 00:12:16.442
to a place of healthy sexuality is awesome
00:12:16.624 --> 00:12:18.065
and a regular part of my work,
00:12:19.206 --> 00:12:21.408
even when there hasn't been intimate
00:12:21.509 --> 00:12:22.789
partner violence, right?
00:12:23.289 --> 00:12:26.974
So there wasn't a religious component
00:12:27.134 --> 00:12:27.214
in...
00:12:28.325 --> 00:12:29.346
the CNN story,
00:12:29.826 --> 00:12:32.947
although the CNN story is from like CNN
00:12:33.028 --> 00:12:36.950
Europe and most of the cases cited were
00:12:37.110 --> 00:12:39.110
in some of the European countries.
00:12:39.331 --> 00:12:42.552
So this wasn't an America specific story
00:12:43.394 --> 00:12:44.173
clarification.
00:12:45.674 --> 00:12:46.095
But, you know,
00:12:46.134 --> 00:12:48.355
I saw the sixty two million number
00:12:48.397 --> 00:12:50.918
floating around online and I wasn't going
00:12:50.937 --> 00:12:52.259
to do an episode about it because it
00:12:52.278 --> 00:12:52.558
was like,
00:12:54.937 --> 00:12:56.798
My instant thought was,
00:12:57.440 --> 00:12:58.480
that's a weird number.
00:12:58.580 --> 00:13:00.121
That's a weirdly specific number.
00:13:01.201 --> 00:13:02.543
But I didn't read the thing.
00:13:02.663 --> 00:13:04.004
I didn't have a reaction of like...
00:13:05.184 --> 00:13:07.125
It was just weirdly specific in that on
00:13:07.405 --> 00:13:07.787
the one hand,
00:13:07.826 --> 00:13:08.986
it seems too low for the amount of
00:13:09.006 --> 00:13:10.307
violence done to women.
00:13:10.788 --> 00:13:11.208
On the other hand,
00:13:11.249 --> 00:13:12.590
it seems too high for...
00:13:14.835 --> 00:13:18.115
a website that was again being quoted on
00:13:18.155 --> 00:13:20.918
the internet as being a rape academy which
00:13:20.937 --> 00:13:23.019
again that's not what the cnn article says
00:13:23.099 --> 00:13:27.059
there is a subset of pornography um on
00:13:27.139 --> 00:13:29.441
this site in the tens of thousands again
00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:31.142
i'm not diminishing the number i'm not
00:13:31.182 --> 00:13:34.102
defending that it exists um this is the
00:13:34.283 --> 00:13:37.245
one porn site that they cited that hadn't
00:13:37.304 --> 00:13:39.405
taken the videos down and then when they
00:13:39.446 --> 00:13:41.147
started doing the reporting the videos
00:13:41.187 --> 00:13:41.866
were removed
00:13:42.366 --> 00:13:44.187
and cited as breaking the terms of service
00:13:44.307 --> 00:13:47.188
of the website that was hosting them um
00:13:47.208 --> 00:13:48.590
but again like this is all this is
00:13:48.629 --> 00:13:51.311
an issue um pornhub had to deal with
00:13:51.331 --> 00:13:53.272
this a few years ago where they had
00:13:53.292 --> 00:13:54.611
to get rid of pretty much all of
00:13:54.631 --> 00:13:57.614
their content and really shift their whole
00:13:57.653 --> 00:14:00.554
business model to be much more creator
00:14:00.615 --> 00:14:03.115
centric creator oh it's not creator owned
00:14:03.196 --> 00:14:05.657
per se um but having a lot more
00:14:05.917 --> 00:14:07.557
um creators putting their stuff up instead
00:14:07.597 --> 00:14:08.859
of random people putting up stuff that
00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:09.339
they don't have
00:14:09.839 --> 00:14:12.221
access to or certainly don't own the
00:14:12.541 --> 00:14:15.344
copyright to but um the model shifted from
00:14:15.384 --> 00:14:16.625
what it what it used to be which
00:14:16.684 --> 00:14:17.706
is good and that was done in a
00:14:17.765 --> 00:14:21.067
reaction to um way too much child sexual
00:14:21.107 --> 00:14:23.809
abuse material being available not even on
00:14:23.850 --> 00:14:26.292
like the dark web or the dark deep
00:14:26.373 --> 00:14:28.413
recesses corners of the internet but on
00:14:28.453 --> 00:14:30.895
like mainstream porn sites so that was a
00:14:30.936 --> 00:14:33.918
good thing and again this porn site was
00:14:33.999 --> 00:14:35.840
not one of those that had gone through
00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:38.422
that process and so that came out in
00:14:38.442 --> 00:14:39.003
the reporting
00:14:39.663 --> 00:14:42.563
um but again you know tens of thousands
00:14:42.583 --> 00:14:46.544
of videos here's again way too many um
00:14:48.125 --> 00:14:50.926
and the the and and not all of
00:14:50.946 --> 00:14:54.667
them were like explicitly videos of sexual
00:14:54.726 --> 00:15:00.869
assault um because again porn and kink and
00:15:01.149 --> 00:15:03.049
shameful um communities
00:15:04.923 --> 00:15:07.004
I want to say shameful communities that
00:15:07.024 --> 00:15:08.644
are outside of the norm always find spaces
00:15:08.724 --> 00:15:09.225
on the Internet.
00:15:09.485 --> 00:15:09.644
Right.
00:15:09.784 --> 00:15:11.024
And they talk to each other and they
00:15:11.044 --> 00:15:11.524
post things.
00:15:11.966 --> 00:15:13.466
And so the CNN reporting and I'm not
00:15:13.485 --> 00:15:13.926
defending it.
00:15:13.966 --> 00:15:15.226
Like, don't write people again.
00:15:15.667 --> 00:15:16.427
This was horrific.
00:15:17.067 --> 00:15:21.609
The CNN reporting also got into a telegram
00:15:21.788 --> 00:15:23.950
chat group of these men.
00:15:24.450 --> 00:15:24.710
Again,
00:15:24.750 --> 00:15:26.250
there weren't sixty two million of them.
00:15:26.270 --> 00:15:27.631
There weren't tens of thousands of them.
00:15:27.672 --> 00:15:28.692
This was a smaller group.
00:15:28.975 --> 00:15:29.856
Telegram sucks.
00:15:29.897 --> 00:15:31.697
It's what a ton of neo-Nazis use.
00:15:31.778 --> 00:15:33.038
A lot of hate groups use.
00:15:33.158 --> 00:15:36.480
A lot of violent extremists are using.
00:15:36.921 --> 00:15:37.240
Again,
00:15:37.321 --> 00:15:39.243
this group of men who wanted to rape
00:15:39.263 --> 00:15:40.503
their wives was using.
00:15:40.964 --> 00:15:44.706
So like a company that claims to be
00:15:44.745 --> 00:15:46.886
about free speech and actually just lets
00:15:47.008 --> 00:15:49.389
people commit crimes on their platform and
00:15:49.408 --> 00:15:50.809
talk about those crimes pretty freely.
00:15:51.974 --> 00:15:52.835
But like, again,
00:15:52.914 --> 00:15:54.014
so when I saw the sixty two million
00:15:54.034 --> 00:15:55.336
numbers, like that's a weird number,
00:15:55.576 --> 00:15:57.177
not like dismissing it out of hand or
00:15:57.217 --> 00:15:58.118
not having an issue with it,
00:15:58.158 --> 00:15:58.538
just being like,
00:15:58.818 --> 00:15:59.798
I wonder what that's actually about.
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:02.620
But I didn't read the reporting and I
00:16:02.640 --> 00:16:03.701
didn't click on it because it's like,
00:16:04.081 --> 00:16:04.322
right.
00:16:04.602 --> 00:16:05.082
Obviously,
00:16:05.123 --> 00:16:06.844
men enact violence against women.
00:16:08.264 --> 00:16:09.706
Our president is.
00:16:11.547 --> 00:16:13.889
In the Epstein files over thirty thousand
00:16:13.928 --> 00:16:16.010
times, there's what, six million,
00:16:16.071 --> 00:16:17.410
three million documents that haven't been
00:16:17.451 --> 00:16:18.932
released, probably because he's in them.
00:16:19.870 --> 00:16:21.171
or other powerful people are in them.
00:16:21.390 --> 00:16:23.513
And he's the president, the Pope,
00:16:23.712 --> 00:16:24.553
who people are like, woo,
00:16:24.594 --> 00:16:25.815
the Pope's fighting Donald Trump.
00:16:25.835 --> 00:16:26.836
So now we like the Pope.
00:16:27.277 --> 00:16:29.778
Spent his entire career before becoming
00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:34.062
Pope, defending sexually abusing priests.
00:16:34.163 --> 00:16:36.063
He was a pedophile protector.
00:16:36.345 --> 00:16:38.446
He still is a pedophile protector.
00:16:38.505 --> 00:16:39.868
He's not a good person.
00:16:41.408 --> 00:16:43.490
The pontiff, one of the holiest men alive,
00:16:43.750 --> 00:16:44.711
pedophile protector.
00:16:45.602 --> 00:16:47.364
so again an article that comes out and
00:16:47.403 --> 00:16:49.745
says men abuse women at a shocking rate
00:16:50.544 --> 00:16:55.447
yeah duh and why i didn't click on
00:16:55.466 --> 00:16:57.006
the article is not because like oh that's
00:16:57.067 --> 00:16:58.388
not news to me but because like
00:16:59.249 --> 00:17:00.710
it would be upsetting to read the article
00:17:00.990 --> 00:17:03.131
that focuses on this statistic or this
00:17:03.172 --> 00:17:05.854
thing and doesn't talk about the wider
00:17:05.933 --> 00:17:09.717
culture of how do such powerful rapists
00:17:10.317 --> 00:17:11.157
maintain their power.
00:17:11.538 --> 00:17:13.598
Again, what, what came out of me too?
00:17:13.638 --> 00:17:16.401
What came out of some of these reactions?
00:17:16.422 --> 00:17:16.541
Well,
00:17:16.561 --> 00:17:18.063
like Donald Trump getting elected again,
00:17:18.262 --> 00:17:19.443
first of all, again,
00:17:19.483 --> 00:17:22.125
men reacted poorly to that and not just
00:17:22.286 --> 00:17:23.246
men, because again,
00:17:23.307 --> 00:17:25.347
Donald Trump won white women as a voting
00:17:25.367 --> 00:17:26.689
block because again,
00:17:28.031 --> 00:17:29.272
Christians voted for him because
00:17:29.313 --> 00:17:31.553
Christians protect abusers as well.
00:17:31.933 --> 00:17:34.034
That's part of the religious hierarchy.
00:17:35.434 --> 00:17:37.135
These institutions will defend power
00:17:37.175 --> 00:17:39.457
before they will defend victims all of the
00:17:39.497 --> 00:17:39.676
time.
00:17:40.773 --> 00:17:42.776
And so, and again,
00:17:42.816 --> 00:17:43.957
the CNN article didn't do that.
00:17:44.017 --> 00:17:45.678
Again, it was good reporting.
00:17:45.778 --> 00:17:46.878
It was something that needed to be
00:17:46.939 --> 00:17:47.378
reported.
00:17:47.459 --> 00:17:49.221
There were consequences because of the
00:17:49.260 --> 00:17:52.542
reporting and men who were abusing their
00:17:52.762 --> 00:17:55.566
partners went to jail, which is good.
00:17:56.145 --> 00:17:58.407
This porn site took down those specific
00:17:58.448 --> 00:18:00.670
videos and that specific sort of corner
00:18:00.930 --> 00:18:04.211
of, I'm going to call it a kink,
00:18:04.251 --> 00:18:06.273
but again, like it's not,
00:18:07.050 --> 00:18:08.432
an oak i don't say it's not an
00:18:08.471 --> 00:18:11.193
okay kink um it's not kink as as
00:18:11.273 --> 00:18:13.914
we who work in this field and work
00:18:13.954 --> 00:18:17.978
with um things like kink is inherently
00:18:18.778 --> 00:18:22.339
consensual right engaging in a kink with a
00:18:22.401 --> 00:18:25.082
partner who shares that kink is consensual
00:18:25.162 --> 00:18:27.644
act none of this is defensible because
00:18:27.683 --> 00:18:33.406
none of this was consensual sorry i have
00:18:33.707 --> 00:18:35.208
um i think my allergies are kicking off
00:18:35.268 --> 00:18:36.009
i don't know if i look
00:18:36.752 --> 00:18:37.173
Weepy,
00:18:37.232 --> 00:18:41.395
but the watery eyes and itchy eyes and
00:18:41.435 --> 00:18:42.656
sore throat.
00:18:43.176 --> 00:18:45.439
Something in the Midwest bloomed recently
00:18:45.479 --> 00:18:46.179
that's bugging me.
00:18:49.221 --> 00:18:51.303
So again, none of this was consensual.
00:18:51.343 --> 00:18:52.763
This was a sexual assault.
00:18:52.804 --> 00:18:54.023
This was intimate partner violence.
00:18:54.064 --> 00:18:54.845
This was rape.
00:18:54.884 --> 00:18:56.945
We can use all of those words correctly
00:18:57.026 --> 00:18:58.146
and accurately for those things.
00:18:58.887 --> 00:18:59.028
Now,
00:18:59.307 --> 00:19:01.088
I said I wasn't going to do an
00:19:01.189 --> 00:19:01.970
episode on this.
00:19:02.069 --> 00:19:02.970
What changed?
00:19:03.130 --> 00:19:03.490
Well...
00:19:04.594 --> 00:19:07.115
A fairly famous therapist on social media
00:19:08.275 --> 00:19:11.836
came out with a take that wasn't good.
00:19:15.636 --> 00:19:19.117
Therapy Jeff is pretty big on TikTok.
00:19:19.178 --> 00:19:20.439
I assume he's big on Instagram.
00:19:20.919 --> 00:19:21.778
I'm not on TikTok,
00:19:21.798 --> 00:19:22.979
and I don't think I follow him on
00:19:23.038 --> 00:19:23.480
Instagram.
00:19:27.040 --> 00:19:27.881
Whatever, we'll get into it.
00:19:29.161 --> 00:19:31.842
He basically posted, for men who have...
00:19:33.413 --> 00:19:38.976
fantasies of um a sexually violent nature
00:19:39.016 --> 00:19:40.957
where are they supposed to go what hotline
00:19:40.977 --> 00:19:42.498
do they call how do they get help
00:19:44.660 --> 00:19:46.601
and those hotlines exist so again his take
00:19:46.621 --> 00:19:48.301
was wrong in the sense of like oh
00:19:48.382 --> 00:19:50.423
this wouldn't happen if we had resources
00:19:50.462 --> 00:19:53.025
there are resources available when we talk
00:19:53.045 --> 00:19:54.325
about kink and when we look at some
00:19:54.365 --> 00:19:56.527
of these things um there are people who
00:19:56.586 --> 00:19:58.548
have intrusive thoughts
00:19:59.625 --> 00:20:01.248
and struggle with them and would never act
00:20:01.288 --> 00:20:01.587
on them.
00:20:01.868 --> 00:20:02.849
There are people who have intrusive
00:20:03.230 --> 00:20:05.034
thoughts and struggle with them and might
00:20:05.153 --> 00:20:05.714
act on them.
00:20:06.135 --> 00:20:08.740
There are people who wants to do bad
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.124
things for bad reasons and are not
00:20:11.203 --> 00:20:12.586
interested in changing.
00:20:13.499 --> 00:20:14.159
And so again,
00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:16.320
you sort of have to be able to
00:20:16.381 --> 00:20:18.122
hold this nuance in your head and
00:20:18.221 --> 00:20:19.442
understand that there are different types
00:20:19.521 --> 00:20:21.482
of people who might be having these
00:20:21.523 --> 00:20:21.923
thoughts.
00:20:21.943 --> 00:20:24.244
The humans are not monolithic and it is
00:20:24.305 --> 00:20:26.086
not one or the other.
00:20:26.105 --> 00:20:27.366
There is no black and white thinking,
00:20:27.406 --> 00:20:28.527
especially when it comes to something as
00:20:28.626 --> 00:20:29.887
complex as sexuality.
00:20:30.509 --> 00:20:33.890
For dynamics of power and power play and
00:20:33.950 --> 00:20:38.153
kinks related to power, super common,
00:20:38.252 --> 00:20:38.413
right?
00:20:39.166 --> 00:20:42.450
for all genders for all sexualities power
00:20:42.490 --> 00:20:45.992
play is a thing that is interesting to
00:20:46.093 --> 00:20:49.957
some people across the broad spectrum
00:20:49.997 --> 00:20:51.798
right because it's something that
00:20:53.237 --> 00:20:55.198
can be really engaging it's something that
00:20:55.218 --> 00:20:57.558
we experience and exploring it and playing
00:20:57.598 --> 00:20:58.959
with it through kink is a different way
00:20:58.979 --> 00:21:00.579
to experience it and explore it some of
00:21:00.619 --> 00:21:02.059
it is about giving up control some of
00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:03.961
it is about experiencing control when you
00:21:03.980 --> 00:21:05.961
normally don't um there's lots of way to
00:21:06.021 --> 00:21:08.063
do this that again are healthy and
00:21:08.143 --> 00:21:12.443
consensual it's a common kink right um
00:21:12.483 --> 00:21:13.184
from basic
00:21:14.194 --> 00:21:17.018
handcuffs you buy off of you know amazon
00:21:17.057 --> 00:21:19.080
that are cheaply made and whatever and
00:21:19.121 --> 00:21:24.507
fuzzy pink cuffs to hardcore bdsm to you
00:21:24.527 --> 00:21:27.170
know dominant slave relations to all these
00:21:27.210 --> 00:21:30.232
other things um broad spectrum of what
00:21:30.292 --> 00:21:31.855
that looks like not everybody who's
00:21:31.875 --> 00:21:33.737
interested in power play is interested in
00:21:35.046 --> 00:21:38.087
dominant slave relationship right um
00:21:38.328 --> 00:21:39.750
people who are interested in being
00:21:39.869 --> 00:21:42.332
overpowered or taken advantage of are not
00:21:42.451 --> 00:21:45.713
pro-rape again like there's a broad
00:21:45.733 --> 00:21:47.435
spectrum here and we have to understand
00:21:47.455 --> 00:21:51.378
that kink and kink play is based first
00:21:51.439 --> 00:21:53.780
and foremost on consent finding partners
00:21:53.800 --> 00:21:55.902
who are enthusiastically consenting to
00:21:55.942 --> 00:21:58.865
these things is an important first step
00:21:59.644 --> 00:22:01.986
um not everybody fits in that category
00:22:02.105 --> 00:22:03.926
right some people have kinks that really
00:22:03.967 --> 00:22:05.488
bother them that they're uncomfortable
00:22:05.528 --> 00:22:08.209
with that are intrusive thoughts or based
00:22:08.249 --> 00:22:11.390
on their own history or whatever and the
00:22:11.410 --> 00:22:13.471
fact that these thoughts come up and these
00:22:13.490 --> 00:22:15.811
thoughts potentially are arousing to them
00:22:16.112 --> 00:22:18.153
are concerning they don't like it they're
00:22:18.192 --> 00:22:20.433
uncomfortable with it and that's great and
00:22:20.894 --> 00:22:22.255
it's not great for them but it's it's
00:22:22.295 --> 00:22:24.316
great that they struggle with it and seek
00:22:24.355 --> 00:22:26.537
help right and these people will come to
00:22:26.576 --> 00:22:28.278
therapy because this thing is bothersome
00:22:28.317 --> 00:22:29.117
to them and they want
00:22:29.478 --> 00:22:31.239
help in learning how to manage it work
00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:34.339
through it understand it etc love that
00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:36.980
right love that people who want help can
00:22:37.060 --> 00:22:39.121
seek out help and again people who might
00:22:39.161 --> 00:22:41.082
have some of these fantasies or might have
00:22:41.422 --> 00:22:43.722
some of these um experience some of these
00:22:43.742 --> 00:22:45.163
things as an intrusive thoughts there are
00:22:45.202 --> 00:22:47.523
resources and hotlines available that's
00:22:47.544 --> 00:22:49.865
why uh therapy jeff's take was so bad
00:22:49.884 --> 00:22:51.545
because it was like oh you didn't even
00:22:51.585 --> 00:22:55.146
like look before you posted this um and
00:22:55.166 --> 00:22:55.906
again the
00:22:57.142 --> 00:22:59.202
this is this is an uncomfortable thing
00:22:59.222 --> 00:23:00.604
that i think the general population
00:23:00.644 --> 00:23:02.965
doesn't have to deal with very much every
00:23:03.006 --> 00:23:05.247
case of incest i've ever worked with every
00:23:05.288 --> 00:23:08.390
case i've worked with of abuse in
00:23:08.450 --> 00:23:10.030
seventeen years of doing therapy this is
00:23:10.131 --> 00:23:11.811
anecdotal evidence this is not one hundred
00:23:11.832 --> 00:23:13.472
percent true across the board everywhere
00:23:13.992 --> 00:23:15.875
but in my career everybody i've worked
00:23:15.894 --> 00:23:18.355
with who is uh physically or sexually
00:23:18.435 --> 00:23:21.738
abused another human has been a victim of
00:23:21.758 --> 00:23:26.161
abuse themselves and that sucks
00:23:27.761 --> 00:23:29.482
How do you hold space for I believe
00:23:29.522 --> 00:23:33.365
victims and want to help them and then
00:23:33.424 --> 00:23:35.005
those victims perpetrate the very harm
00:23:35.025 --> 00:23:36.006
that was done to them?
00:23:36.546 --> 00:23:38.586
And it's super common.
00:23:39.166 --> 00:23:39.906
It's not, again,
00:23:39.967 --> 00:23:42.387
not all abusers are victims themselves.
00:23:42.567 --> 00:23:44.288
That has been my experience in my career,
00:23:44.308 --> 00:23:45.229
but that is anecdotal.
00:23:45.249 --> 00:23:46.390
That's not true across the board.
00:23:47.199 --> 00:23:49.320
And not everybody who is abused will go
00:23:49.401 --> 00:23:50.482
on to do abuse,
00:23:50.502 --> 00:23:52.183
which is why abuse is so heinous and
00:23:52.223 --> 00:23:53.766
why that is not something that we're
00:23:53.826 --> 00:23:56.929
excusing or making a rationale for why
00:23:56.989 --> 00:23:57.569
it's okay.
00:23:58.030 --> 00:23:59.932
Lots of people are abused and choose to
00:23:59.972 --> 00:24:00.913
not do that.
00:24:02.188 --> 00:24:06.132
obviously um and so but but that nuance
00:24:06.211 --> 00:24:07.854
often isn't there again we want to think
00:24:07.894 --> 00:24:10.276
of perpetrators and victims as two
00:24:10.316 --> 00:24:12.919
separate categories and the the overlap
00:24:12.939 --> 00:24:14.519
between those two things that somebody
00:24:14.539 --> 00:24:15.780
who's a perpetrator is also a victim
00:24:15.800 --> 00:24:17.742
themselves makes us uncomfortable because
00:24:17.762 --> 00:24:19.904
it's so complex there's no easy answer and
00:24:19.944 --> 00:24:24.128
our brain likes to have easy answers um
00:24:24.210 --> 00:24:26.352
and so i can understand as a therapist
00:24:27.324 --> 00:24:30.026
saying hey there's nuance here but that's
00:24:30.105 --> 00:24:32.887
not really what therapy jeff said and what
00:24:32.948 --> 00:24:35.710
he was suggesting for nuance again exists
00:24:35.769 --> 00:24:38.071
already and so he really wasn't saying
00:24:38.692 --> 00:24:43.675
anything useful um and again he did not
00:24:43.736 --> 00:24:46.478
say rape is bad he didn't say intimate
00:24:46.498 --> 00:24:48.680
partner violence is is an epidemic that's
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.821
being not talked about enough there was no
00:24:51.961 --> 00:24:55.003
like correction of like hey
00:24:56.020 --> 00:24:58.923
misogyny in all its forms is bad and
00:24:58.962 --> 00:25:00.463
needs to be actively worked on to
00:25:00.503 --> 00:25:04.105
eradicate it um and so again I will
00:25:04.226 --> 00:25:07.327
maintain like what he said was bad it
00:25:07.367 --> 00:25:09.828
was factually inaccurate or at least
00:25:10.450 --> 00:25:14.471
factually misleading and he didn't clarify
00:25:14.511 --> 00:25:16.373
that like there's no excuse for these
00:25:16.413 --> 00:25:18.233
things there's never an excuse for this
00:25:18.273 --> 00:25:22.876
behavior people don't act out because of a
00:25:22.936 --> 00:25:24.798
lack of resources um
00:25:25.987 --> 00:25:27.327
Do we need more resources?
00:25:27.407 --> 00:25:27.647
Yes.
00:25:28.268 --> 00:25:29.608
For everything in mental health.
00:25:29.749 --> 00:25:30.209
Absolutely.
00:25:30.229 --> 00:25:30.890
A hundred percent.
00:25:33.290 --> 00:25:35.912
And that's not why this is going on.
00:25:36.452 --> 00:25:38.113
It doesn't make it okay because there are
00:25:38.133 --> 00:25:39.413
people who have these fantasies,
00:25:39.453 --> 00:25:43.155
who have these desires to exert power over
00:25:43.195 --> 00:25:45.196
people in a violent and harmful way.
00:25:45.877 --> 00:25:46.458
And that's,
00:25:48.443 --> 00:25:50.487
that's what they want right they don't
00:25:50.507 --> 00:25:51.909
want to change it they don't struggle with
00:25:51.989 --> 00:25:56.414
it this is ceos who are uh ravaging
00:25:56.454 --> 00:25:59.558
the environment this is big bankers and
00:25:59.719 --> 00:26:02.082
also ceos who are stealing money from
00:26:02.142 --> 00:26:04.965
people this is the epstein pedophile class
00:26:05.026 --> 00:26:05.686
this is
00:26:06.548 --> 00:26:09.329
serial killers this is rapists this is uh
00:26:09.431 --> 00:26:11.972
people who for whatever reason and there
00:26:11.992 --> 00:26:14.414
are various reasons and even more theories
00:26:14.494 --> 00:26:17.257
on what other reasons could be have no
00:26:17.356 --> 00:26:20.640
qualms about harming other people and
00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:24.343
again in a colonial society where power is
00:26:24.383 --> 00:26:26.785
worshipped and power is protected this
00:26:26.825 --> 00:26:30.087
keeps happening because there isn't actual
00:26:30.188 --> 00:26:30.848
accountability
00:26:33.596 --> 00:26:35.778
When I can highlight a ton of people
00:26:36.337 --> 00:26:38.380
in power, president, pope,
00:26:40.060 --> 00:26:42.201
owners of major social media,
00:26:43.903 --> 00:26:47.986
corporations, CEOs, high-powered bankers,
00:26:48.546 --> 00:26:52.208
Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, P. Diddy.
00:26:52.448 --> 00:26:52.808
Again,
00:26:53.048 --> 00:26:54.410
the list goes on and on and on
00:26:54.430 --> 00:26:55.589
and on and on and on and on
00:26:55.630 --> 00:26:56.171
and on.
00:26:56.951 --> 00:26:58.491
And again, it's power, right?
00:26:58.632 --> 00:26:59.492
It's not men.
00:27:00.801 --> 00:27:02.903
It is men specifically and to a
00:27:02.962 --> 00:27:04.482
statistically significant degree.
00:27:05.364 --> 00:27:07.724
But it's, you know, Katy Perry recently,
00:27:08.005 --> 00:27:08.244
right?
00:27:08.384 --> 00:27:09.065
It's Lizzo.
00:27:09.305 --> 00:27:13.666
It's other people who when there is power
00:27:13.906 --> 00:27:16.948
and power is protected and with no
00:27:17.087 --> 00:27:20.109
accountability, there will be abuse.
00:27:20.130 --> 00:27:20.910
It's the church.
00:27:21.230 --> 00:27:22.170
It's capitalism.
00:27:22.891 --> 00:27:24.611
Anything that comes from a colonial
00:27:24.651 --> 00:27:27.731
mindset that I can exert power over this
00:27:27.772 --> 00:27:28.992
to make this thing mine is
00:27:30.700 --> 00:27:31.900
creates lots and lots and lots of
00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:33.019
opportunities for abuse.
00:27:33.881 --> 00:27:35.221
Statistically speaking, again,
00:27:35.441 --> 00:27:38.540
men are perpetrating this abuse more often
00:27:38.560 --> 00:27:38.961
than not.
00:27:40.041 --> 00:27:40.241
Again,
00:27:40.301 --> 00:27:41.842
I don't think that's a biological gender
00:27:41.961 --> 00:27:42.321
thing.
00:27:42.422 --> 00:27:44.803
I think that is a social norming thing
00:27:44.942 --> 00:27:48.063
that under colonialism and in the modern
00:27:48.262 --> 00:27:51.463
age of colonialism from, you know,
00:28:00.384 --> 00:28:01.586
In the common era,
00:28:02.506 --> 00:28:04.186
colonialism has been patriarchal.
00:28:04.887 --> 00:28:05.448
And so again,
00:28:05.488 --> 00:28:08.249
it is men engaging in the colonial process
00:28:08.308 --> 00:28:09.769
of something that does not belong to me.
00:28:10.009 --> 00:28:11.611
Through force, I will make it mine,
00:28:13.311 --> 00:28:16.393
is why I think that discrepancy exists.
00:28:20.055 --> 00:28:20.734
But again,
00:28:20.894 --> 00:28:24.057
that's looking through a historical lens
00:28:24.217 --> 00:28:24.836
and saying,
00:28:25.297 --> 00:28:26.438
what is this thing actually about?
00:28:27.509 --> 00:28:28.950
One of the other hot takes and one
00:28:28.970 --> 00:28:30.570
of the other things I keep seeing is
00:28:30.631 --> 00:28:30.912
like,
00:28:31.372 --> 00:28:33.554
this is a men's problem and this is
00:28:33.933 --> 00:28:35.454
men's problem to fix.
00:28:36.355 --> 00:28:40.259
And certainly I understand the sentiment.
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:45.403
Men in our position of privilege under
00:28:45.462 --> 00:28:47.243
capitalism, under colonialism,
00:28:47.403 --> 00:28:48.785
under a patriarchal system,
00:28:49.246 --> 00:28:53.669
men need to call out and enforce racism.
00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:58.401
Better social norms for other men.
00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:01.040
It's not okay to take advantage of
00:29:01.101 --> 00:29:02.101
somebody who's drunk.
00:29:02.201 --> 00:29:03.922
It's not okay to take advantage of someone
00:29:03.961 --> 00:29:06.102
who is less powerful than you,
00:29:06.142 --> 00:29:07.803
whether that is somebody of a different
00:29:07.843 --> 00:29:09.643
gender, whether that is a child,
00:29:09.702 --> 00:29:12.723
whether that is a person of different
00:29:12.763 --> 00:29:14.243
ability, whether that's an old person,
00:29:14.263 --> 00:29:14.983
whatever it is.
00:29:15.324 --> 00:29:15.604
Again,
00:29:16.025 --> 00:29:19.005
any time that that power is exerted
00:29:19.625 --> 00:29:21.746
violently and non-consensually needs to be
00:29:21.766 --> 00:29:22.185
a problem.
00:29:23.277 --> 00:29:24.759
It is a problem and we need to
00:29:24.798 --> 00:29:26.420
treat it as such and we don't high
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:28.561
five people or laugh at their awkward
00:29:28.602 --> 00:29:29.702
jokes or make it okay.
00:29:29.782 --> 00:29:31.365
We call them out and make them feel
00:29:31.484 --> 00:29:33.767
uncomfortable to the point of shunning
00:29:33.807 --> 00:29:36.230
them because that cannot exist in a
00:29:36.250 --> 00:29:37.530
functional society.
00:29:38.050 --> 00:29:38.872
The fact that again,
00:29:38.971 --> 00:29:40.653
our society is built around it is what
00:29:40.673 --> 00:29:42.715
will make our society eventually crumble
00:29:43.115 --> 00:29:44.958
and always has been a failing experiment
00:29:45.218 --> 00:29:47.480
because you cannot build a society
00:29:48.769 --> 00:29:50.450
that has any degree of sustainability
00:29:51.829 --> 00:29:52.770
long-term, again,
00:29:53.310 --> 00:29:55.471
in the millions of years range,
00:29:55.571 --> 00:29:58.512
not in the short lifespans of humans,
00:29:58.553 --> 00:30:01.174
because obviously the colonial experiment
00:30:01.194 --> 00:30:02.934
that has been the United States of America
00:30:03.215 --> 00:30:03.955
is going on.
00:30:04.115 --> 00:30:04.476
But again,
00:30:04.976 --> 00:30:07.497
in the historical sense of civilizations,
00:30:07.778 --> 00:30:10.338
very short run to be falling apart
00:30:10.358 --> 00:30:10.679
already.
00:30:11.739 --> 00:30:11.959
So...
00:30:15.068 --> 00:30:15.449
Yeah,
00:30:15.469 --> 00:30:18.009
I understand that men need to enforce and
00:30:18.170 --> 00:30:19.451
change the culture,
00:30:20.510 --> 00:30:22.612
but it needs to be a collective, right?
00:30:22.672 --> 00:30:24.573
And I'm not putting the responsibility on
00:30:24.613 --> 00:30:25.773
those people who are not in power.
00:30:25.814 --> 00:30:27.594
This isn't me saying it's not men's
00:30:27.614 --> 00:30:28.275
responsibility.
00:30:28.694 --> 00:30:30.556
I'm saying men can't be the solution
00:30:31.635 --> 00:30:35.817
because putting men in a role of power
00:30:37.199 --> 00:30:39.219
is part of the problem, right?
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:42.260
So it needs to be men who enforce...
00:30:43.594 --> 00:30:44.654
changing the social norm,
00:30:44.674 --> 00:30:46.516
but then it needs to be a collective
00:30:46.536 --> 00:30:48.156
and a collaborative stepping into that
00:30:48.196 --> 00:30:48.616
place.
00:30:49.676 --> 00:30:51.077
I'm going to say that power vacuum.
00:30:51.097 --> 00:30:52.659
And that's such a like Western sort of
00:30:52.719 --> 00:30:53.199
mindset.
00:30:54.078 --> 00:30:55.839
We need something better to take its
00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:56.181
place.
00:30:56.580 --> 00:30:59.281
It's not better men being in charge.
00:30:59.781 --> 00:31:00.403
Right.
00:31:00.423 --> 00:31:00.722
And again, I,
00:31:01.423 --> 00:31:02.304
I don't think that's what people are
00:31:02.324 --> 00:31:05.105
saying when they're saying men need to be
00:31:05.165 --> 00:31:05.586
better.
00:31:06.547 --> 00:31:06.886
Again,
00:31:06.987 --> 00:31:08.827
I think people are implying there needs to
00:31:08.847 --> 00:31:09.868
be a better system at the end of
00:31:09.888 --> 00:31:10.348
this all.
00:31:10.388 --> 00:31:13.571
But I do think it's potentially
00:31:13.632 --> 00:31:14.751
intellectually lazy,
00:31:14.791 --> 00:31:16.594
potentially intellectually dishonest to
00:31:16.693 --> 00:31:18.454
just end our talking points there.
00:31:19.247 --> 00:31:20.887
this gets back to why i don't follow
00:31:20.928 --> 00:31:22.548
some of these people online and why i'm
00:31:22.587 --> 00:31:24.348
skeptical to about therapists i'm
00:31:24.388 --> 00:31:27.630
skeptical about people with platforms in
00:31:27.730 --> 00:31:30.990
general in these spaces i'm doing a thirty
00:31:31.310 --> 00:31:33.791
minute video right now where where you
00:31:33.811 --> 00:31:35.432
know i'm thirty one minutes i can watch
00:31:35.472 --> 00:31:38.713
my timer count up as i ramble on
00:31:39.493 --> 00:31:42.355
um i don't like the short form media
00:31:42.474 --> 00:31:44.776
i've never been on tick tock um
00:31:45.515 --> 00:31:47.375
I do some YouTube shorts,
00:31:47.476 --> 00:31:49.817
but I never make a short independent of
00:31:49.836 --> 00:31:50.576
a larger film.
00:31:50.676 --> 00:31:54.199
Everything is clipped to promote my larger
00:31:54.239 --> 00:31:54.679
videos.
00:31:54.838 --> 00:31:58.121
And in trying to do Instagram reels and
00:31:58.161 --> 00:31:59.820
trying to get into some of this stuff
00:31:59.961 --> 00:32:01.422
as a small business owner who needs to
00:32:01.461 --> 00:32:02.242
promote their business,
00:32:02.282 --> 00:32:04.343
which sucks and is dystopian in its own
00:32:04.384 --> 00:32:04.604
way,
00:32:05.784 --> 00:32:07.805
the shortest I could get some things down
00:32:07.825 --> 00:32:09.605
was two and a half minutes.
00:32:10.426 --> 00:32:12.528
which I think TikTok and I think Instagram
00:32:12.567 --> 00:32:14.009
Reels, I'm not on Facebook.
00:32:14.028 --> 00:32:15.029
I don't know what Facebook is doing.
00:32:16.050 --> 00:32:17.152
I would assume similar to whatever
00:32:17.172 --> 00:32:18.031
Instagram is doing, right?
00:32:18.051 --> 00:32:19.093
They're both meta companies.
00:32:21.153 --> 00:32:23.095
They've expanded how long you can have
00:32:23.115 --> 00:32:24.355
videos and do some of those things.
00:32:24.395 --> 00:32:25.656
But again, as a therapist,
00:32:25.676 --> 00:32:27.678
like the amount of nuance it requires for
00:32:27.699 --> 00:32:28.739
me to talk about things,
00:32:31.229 --> 00:32:34.171
extensive i can't do a ninety second video
00:32:34.290 --> 00:32:37.313
about trauma i can't do justice to a
00:32:37.373 --> 00:32:39.515
topic like attachment theory or good
00:32:39.555 --> 00:32:43.497
communication whether it's it's a overview
00:32:43.537 --> 00:32:45.759
of a topic or it's a skill set
00:32:45.818 --> 00:32:48.019
or a technique that i recommend i teach
00:32:48.641 --> 00:32:50.281
all of my couples how to use timeouts
00:32:50.402 --> 00:32:51.762
and again that's when i'm going to be
00:32:51.803 --> 00:32:53.523
the first things i posted in short form
00:32:53.584 --> 00:32:55.806
and i couldn't get it short enough to
00:32:55.865 --> 00:32:57.346
post it in a way where i was
00:32:57.366 --> 00:32:59.268
like well this is what i'm actually trying
00:32:59.307 --> 00:33:00.808
to say and so
00:33:01.942 --> 00:33:03.423
i don't like something that's a hundred
00:33:03.463 --> 00:33:06.686
forty character limit there's no nuance
00:33:06.727 --> 00:33:08.848
there i don't like things that are ninety
00:33:08.888 --> 00:33:11.971
second clips there's no nuance there um to
00:33:12.070 --> 00:33:15.054
think that that we can talk effectively
00:33:15.614 --> 00:33:18.175
about the human experience in that short
00:33:18.195 --> 00:33:21.298
amount of time is preposterous and again
00:33:21.318 --> 00:33:24.340
that's that's part of where these
00:33:24.381 --> 00:33:25.962
conversations fall flat is like
00:33:26.962 --> 00:33:28.324
you know if you've ever been in my
00:33:28.403 --> 00:33:29.925
office which why would you have been
00:33:30.066 --> 00:33:31.907
although some sometimes i know my clients
00:33:31.948 --> 00:33:35.671
are listening hey um one of the books
00:33:35.691 --> 00:33:37.413
that sits in my coffee shop my coffee
00:33:37.432 --> 00:33:38.794
table all time i have a book that
00:33:38.814 --> 00:33:40.875
i rotate around and then i have some
00:33:40.915 --> 00:33:42.798
coffee table books that stay on my my
00:33:42.817 --> 00:33:44.499
shelf and and what are on my coffee
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:45.861
table one of the reasons this book stays
00:33:45.881 --> 00:33:47.721
because i have multiple copies of it um
00:33:47.781 --> 00:33:49.344
but the medium is the massage by marshall
00:33:49.364 --> 00:33:50.505
mccluhan um
00:33:51.771 --> 00:33:53.031
which is from the nineteen sixties and
00:33:53.071 --> 00:33:53.772
it's really good read.
00:33:53.813 --> 00:33:55.472
And I think that's worthwhile even now
00:33:55.532 --> 00:33:55.932
today.
00:33:56.432 --> 00:33:58.453
Some of it's just fun and interesting to
00:33:58.493 --> 00:33:59.733
hear how people in the sixties thought
00:33:59.773 --> 00:34:00.755
technology would advance,
00:34:01.214 --> 00:34:03.535
but some of it was spot on and
00:34:03.595 --> 00:34:06.316
very accurate to problems we were going to
00:34:06.395 --> 00:34:09.757
have if our media literacy wasn't better
00:34:09.836 --> 00:34:12.597
because just how we engage with topics
00:34:12.797 --> 00:34:14.697
shapes what our brain does with them,
00:34:15.278 --> 00:34:15.458
right?
00:34:15.498 --> 00:34:16.378
The medium,
00:34:16.418 --> 00:34:18.018
the form in which we're engaging,
00:34:18.059 --> 00:34:19.960
whether it's newspaper, a book,
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.742
a short form video a long short form
00:34:22.762 --> 00:34:25.525
video uh in in-person conversation all of
00:34:25.545 --> 00:34:27.025
these things elicit different responses in
00:34:27.065 --> 00:34:30.469
our brain and so there's um shaping and
00:34:30.528 --> 00:34:33.492
shading of content um out of content of
00:34:33.612 --> 00:34:35.873
meaning making of the content we're
00:34:35.914 --> 00:34:39.117
consuming in that way even the idea that
00:34:39.157 --> 00:34:42.280
it is made to be consumed it shapes
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:44.641
how we interact with it and so you
00:34:44.681 --> 00:34:46.204
know um i think
00:34:48.121 --> 00:34:49.684
when researchers are looking at like
00:34:50.023 --> 00:34:50.423
autism,
00:34:50.443 --> 00:34:52.166
something that's been studied already,
00:34:52.186 --> 00:34:55.847
the autism information on TikTok is about
00:34:55.929 --> 00:34:57.048
eighty percent inaccurate,
00:34:57.969 --> 00:35:00.632
which is a very high number to be
00:35:00.831 --> 00:35:01.592
inaccurate.
00:35:02.693 --> 00:35:04.315
Because, again, there's so much nuance.
00:35:04.335 --> 00:35:05.835
It's really hard to talk about something
00:35:05.856 --> 00:35:07.597
like this that exists on a spectrum that
00:35:07.637 --> 00:35:09.119
is different for different people that
00:35:09.278 --> 00:35:10.780
lacks long term,
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:12.981
good longitudinal studies on.
00:35:14.603 --> 00:35:15.724
With the degree of confidence,
00:35:15.744 --> 00:35:16.284
there are some
00:35:17.128 --> 00:35:18.768
therapists, psychologists,
00:35:18.889 --> 00:35:21.190
researchers on social media who I like,
00:35:21.630 --> 00:35:23.632
who I think do a good job of
00:35:25.634 --> 00:35:28.175
doing longer videos that distill complex
00:35:28.215 --> 00:35:29.617
topics into something that can be
00:35:30.597 --> 00:35:31.117
understood.
00:35:32.077 --> 00:35:34.719
But even with those content creators,
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:35.681
they get clipped.
00:35:36.581 --> 00:35:39.222
News people take those things.
00:35:39.282 --> 00:35:40.744
Other content creators take those things
00:35:40.784 --> 00:35:42.865
and shrink them down even more to be
00:35:43.045 --> 00:35:44.467
less than accurate.
00:35:45.791 --> 00:35:46.992
I don't think it's always intentional,
00:35:47.032 --> 00:35:47.331
but again,
00:35:47.391 --> 00:35:49.813
I think to understand you're operating
00:35:49.914 --> 00:35:52.637
under tech fascism to be clipping things
00:35:52.717 --> 00:35:54.639
and posting it on TikTok or Instagram
00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:55.659
reels.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:57.342
These are not neutral,
00:35:59.003 --> 00:36:00.724
even if we're trying to use them for
00:36:00.764 --> 00:36:01.726
good purposes.
00:36:02.664 --> 00:36:03.905
And, like, I'm on YouTube, right?
00:36:04.025 --> 00:36:04.945
I'm podcasting.
00:36:04.985 --> 00:36:05.505
Podcasting,
00:36:05.786 --> 00:36:07.565
I don't know what company owns Buzzsprout,
00:36:07.626 --> 00:36:09.005
which is where I host my podcasts.
00:36:09.186 --> 00:36:11.027
And, you know, it's on Apple Music,
00:36:11.067 --> 00:36:12.646
and I don't love Apple as a company.
00:36:12.686 --> 00:36:16.967
I've boycotted them for forever for petty
00:36:17.047 --> 00:36:17.807
personal reasons,
00:36:17.867 --> 00:36:20.369
not because I'm on my high horse here,
00:36:21.449 --> 00:36:24.389
for refusing to fix my OG first-generation
00:36:24.750 --> 00:36:26.369
iPad or iPod when it broke.
00:36:29.710 --> 00:36:30.971
You know, again, like...
00:36:32.246 --> 00:36:35.568
there's not a different option, right?
00:36:35.847 --> 00:36:38.068
And what we have seen in the rise
00:36:38.088 --> 00:36:39.969
of the internet and in sort of industry
00:36:40.429 --> 00:36:42.490
disrupting things like Uber,
00:36:42.550 --> 00:36:43.751
like streaming,
00:36:44.150 --> 00:36:47.632
all they've done is made a thing that
00:36:47.652 --> 00:36:49.632
was already monopolistic worse and then
00:36:49.672 --> 00:36:50.634
monopolized it again.
00:36:51.393 --> 00:36:54.896
So I'm deeply skeptical of of this stuff,
00:36:54.936 --> 00:36:56.976
but certainly like I feel better,
00:36:57.257 --> 00:36:58.657
obviously, because I'm doing it,
00:36:58.978 --> 00:37:00.840
doing long form conversations with other
00:37:00.860 --> 00:37:01.219
humans.
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:02.280
That's what generally when I'm
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:04.581
interviewing guests for the podcast is all
00:37:04.601 --> 00:37:04.842
about.
00:37:04.922 --> 00:37:06.742
So the premise of the podcast was was
00:37:06.762 --> 00:37:08.623
like to take care of your mental health
00:37:08.744 --> 00:37:10.925
is normal and expected for everyone,
00:37:11.045 --> 00:37:11.945
even the professionals.
00:37:14.980 --> 00:37:16.400
And this long form video allows me to
00:37:16.420 --> 00:37:16.940
have nuance.
00:37:17.322 --> 00:37:18.762
And I try not to watch my videos
00:37:18.802 --> 00:37:20.083
back because honestly,
00:37:20.724 --> 00:37:23.085
when I listen to myself, first of all,
00:37:23.105 --> 00:37:24.166
I don't like my recorded voice.
00:37:24.206 --> 00:37:25.887
That's normal that there's a psychological
00:37:25.927 --> 00:37:26.327
condition.
00:37:26.567 --> 00:37:27.108
We don't love it.
00:37:28.548 --> 00:37:29.688
It's not like a diagnosable,
00:37:30.230 --> 00:37:31.530
just like it's a thing that we've
00:37:31.570 --> 00:37:32.650
researched and said like, yes,
00:37:32.710 --> 00:37:34.251
most humans do not like hearing the
00:37:34.291 --> 00:37:35.652
recorded voice because it's not how we
00:37:35.672 --> 00:37:36.713
hear ourselves in our head.
00:37:36.733 --> 00:37:39.996
And it creates some dissonance.
00:37:40.835 --> 00:37:41.297
But also,
00:37:41.476 --> 00:37:44.297
whenever I listen to myself or somebody
00:37:44.878 --> 00:37:47.199
clip something or play something I said or
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:48.260
cite something I said,
00:37:48.981 --> 00:37:51.483
there's always more nuance to it, right?
00:37:51.503 --> 00:37:52.764
There's not a thing I've put on the
00:37:52.824 --> 00:37:55.005
internet that I wouldn't add an addendum
00:37:55.045 --> 00:37:57.286
to or update or shift or change.
00:37:57.347 --> 00:38:01.648
It's part of why recording things for
00:38:01.688 --> 00:38:03.851
posterity's sake is really hard.
00:38:04.070 --> 00:38:04.190
It
00:38:04.835 --> 00:38:06.115
I try and put out content that I'm
00:38:06.155 --> 00:38:06.577
happy with.
00:38:06.657 --> 00:38:08.057
I try and put up things that are
00:38:08.137 --> 00:38:11.561
backed by research that are deeply
00:38:11.661 --> 00:38:13.722
informed by my experience as a therapist,
00:38:13.762 --> 00:38:15.324
deeply informed by other people's lives.
00:38:16.206 --> 00:38:17.686
I try and platform other people who are
00:38:17.726 --> 00:38:19.929
coming from other experiences and other
00:38:21.617 --> 00:38:23.938
perspectives on things not in that like
00:38:23.998 --> 00:38:26.159
fake sort of talk is jericho or joe
00:38:26.219 --> 00:38:27.639
rogan way where they're just putting on
00:38:27.659 --> 00:38:28.980
people that they agree with and they're
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:31.521
pretending to be free speech people um i'm
00:38:32.101 --> 00:38:34.601
finding and vetting guests that i want to
00:38:34.842 --> 00:38:40.043
platform right it's not it's not um the
00:38:40.063 --> 00:38:41.884
wild west over here i'm making sure people
00:38:41.923 --> 00:38:43.623
are not going to espouse things that are
00:38:43.664 --> 00:38:46.605
harmful um because again i think that's
00:38:46.625 --> 00:38:47.945
the responsibility that comes along with
00:38:48.005 --> 00:38:48.985
having a platform
00:38:50.398 --> 00:38:54.559
as a small podcast, small YouTube channel.
00:38:55.699 --> 00:38:56.139
But again, as,
00:38:56.260 --> 00:38:58.019
as a licensed therapist who has a lot
00:38:58.061 --> 00:39:00.440
of privilege and a lot of quote unquote
00:39:00.521 --> 00:39:02.380
power is put into a position of power,
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:03.402
whether I want to be or not.
00:39:04.362 --> 00:39:05.342
That's the thing that we have to be
00:39:05.362 --> 00:39:05.702
aware of.
00:39:05.742 --> 00:39:07.882
And I think that's where therapy Jeff
00:39:07.961 --> 00:39:08.943
really fell flat.
00:39:09.023 --> 00:39:11.282
And then people went and found other posts
00:39:11.322 --> 00:39:12.242
of his that aren't great.
00:39:12.722 --> 00:39:14.264
One of them was about like his preferences
00:39:14.304 --> 00:39:15.063
for hand jobs.
00:39:15.643 --> 00:39:16.003
He got,
00:39:17.394 --> 00:39:19.878
graphic um and again there's a part of
00:39:19.898 --> 00:39:21.778
me that's like i don't i don't think
00:39:21.818 --> 00:39:23.740
that's bad again i think seeking that
00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:25.463
stuff out and posting it and saying see
00:39:25.503 --> 00:39:27.204
this guy's problematic is again
00:39:29.101 --> 00:39:30.842
forcing a narrative that may or may not
00:39:30.902 --> 00:39:31.382
be there.
00:39:32.382 --> 00:39:33.463
A lot of people were up in arms
00:39:33.483 --> 00:39:34.043
about like, well,
00:39:34.103 --> 00:39:35.443
his clients will see that and how are
00:39:35.463 --> 00:39:35.943
they supposed to feel?
00:39:36.003 --> 00:39:37.824
Like he's a TikTok therapist.
00:39:37.864 --> 00:39:40.264
He doesn't have a full client caseload.
00:39:40.304 --> 00:39:41.806
He probably only sees a handful of people
00:39:41.885 --> 00:39:43.226
I saw.
00:39:43.306 --> 00:39:44.085
I saw someone,
00:39:44.266 --> 00:39:46.007
I don't know how they had this information
00:39:46.067 --> 00:39:47.126
or how credible it is.
00:39:47.166 --> 00:39:50.007
Say he only has five actual clients.
00:39:50.088 --> 00:39:51.047
Everything he does,
00:39:51.108 --> 00:39:52.849
all the money he makes is through social
00:39:52.889 --> 00:39:53.208
media.
00:39:53.869 --> 00:39:54.188
And again,
00:39:54.548 --> 00:39:56.269
that's not necessarily who I think people
00:39:56.289 --> 00:39:56.769
should listen to.
00:39:57.773 --> 00:39:59.355
I generally send people YouTube videos by
00:39:59.375 --> 00:39:59.914
Katie Morton.
00:39:59.994 --> 00:40:01.096
I think she does a good job.
00:40:01.596 --> 00:40:03.936
I'm biased because she's an LMFT and I
00:40:03.956 --> 00:40:06.998
think LMFTs do this better than other
00:40:07.057 --> 00:40:10.380
professionals because I think thinking
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:11.900
systemically is how we have to approach
00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:12.340
the world.
00:40:13.001 --> 00:40:17.023
And if it ever comes out that she's
00:40:17.063 --> 00:40:20.184
bad or whatever, that sucks.
00:40:21.114 --> 00:40:22.657
I have The Body Keeps the Score on
00:40:22.697 --> 00:40:23.336
my bookshelf,
00:40:23.498 --> 00:40:24.938
not because I think Bessel van der Kolk
00:40:24.978 --> 00:40:25.519
is awesome.
00:40:25.579 --> 00:40:27.501
He's a twat and an asshole and not
00:40:27.521 --> 00:40:28.503
a good person to work with.
00:40:29.143 --> 00:40:30.985
And that's the book that shifted and
00:40:31.025 --> 00:40:32.586
changed how we talk about trauma and
00:40:32.646 --> 00:40:33.507
understand trauma.
00:40:34.047 --> 00:40:35.369
It's not the only book that was out.
00:40:35.510 --> 00:40:35.809
But again,
00:40:36.130 --> 00:40:37.592
I think there's a lot in that book
00:40:37.632 --> 00:40:39.893
that I still cite for people so that
00:40:39.994 --> 00:40:41.916
if they have no framework for trauma,
00:40:41.956 --> 00:40:43.458
here's a good holistic overview.
00:40:46.411 --> 00:40:47.831
should update that again as i say it
00:40:47.871 --> 00:40:49.132
out loud again this is something that was
00:40:49.152 --> 00:40:50.434
like yeah two months from now i'll
00:40:50.454 --> 00:40:51.355
probably have a different book because i
00:40:51.375 --> 00:40:52.355
said it out loud and i'm like yeah
00:40:52.434 --> 00:40:53.675
yeah i don't actually like that when i
00:40:54.097 --> 00:40:56.697
actually sit with it um my bookshelf is
00:40:56.838 --> 00:41:02.682
ever rotating um i don't remember where i
00:41:02.702 --> 00:41:06.364
was going with that so anyway um i'm
00:41:06.385 --> 00:41:08.487
not somebody who's like puts people on a
00:41:08.527 --> 00:41:11.708
pedestal i maintain that everybody is
00:41:12.009 --> 00:41:12.309
awesome
00:41:13.373 --> 00:41:18.135
in a special and unique and uh
00:41:18.255 --> 00:41:20.414
unpredictable or unexpected way and
00:41:20.454 --> 00:41:23.596
everybody's a piece of human beings suck
00:41:24.295 --> 00:41:27.757
and simultaneously truthfully are awesome
00:41:28.817 --> 00:41:30.617
and the question becomes what do we do
00:41:30.657 --> 00:41:33.538
with that as opposed to can we find
00:41:33.617 --> 00:41:36.659
the perfect person no they don't exist not
00:41:36.699 --> 00:41:38.398
in a religious sinful sort of way just
00:41:38.539 --> 00:41:38.719
like
00:41:40.219 --> 00:41:40.900
We're messy.
00:41:41.380 --> 00:41:42.541
We're not finished products.
00:41:42.661 --> 00:41:43.481
Nobody is.
00:41:43.702 --> 00:41:45.983
Anyone who claims to be is lying to
00:41:46.063 --> 00:41:48.324
you, right?
00:41:48.686 --> 00:41:51.288
My podcast is specifically about how I am
00:41:51.387 --> 00:41:53.748
in therapy and other professionals also
00:41:53.809 --> 00:41:56.331
need to be because everybody needs help.
00:41:56.911 --> 00:41:58.393
Nobody's a finished product.
00:41:58.873 --> 00:42:01.195
Nobody gets it right all of the time,
00:42:01.375 --> 00:42:02.295
always.
00:42:02.356 --> 00:42:03.456
That's preposterous.
00:42:05.099 --> 00:42:07.481
Does that mean that I recommend following
00:42:07.521 --> 00:42:08.161
Therapy Jeff?
00:42:08.262 --> 00:42:09.623
No, if you want to unfollow him,
00:42:09.742 --> 00:42:10.342
do that.
00:42:10.623 --> 00:42:12.483
I didn't know he was the person who
00:42:12.704 --> 00:42:13.864
started Therapy Den.
00:42:14.326 --> 00:42:15.626
I also didn't know Therapy Den had been
00:42:15.646 --> 00:42:15.806
sold.
00:42:15.827 --> 00:42:17.427
All of this doesn't surprise me because
00:42:17.467 --> 00:42:19.289
Therapy Den does suck compared to what it
00:42:19.329 --> 00:42:20.248
was when it first started.
00:42:21.510 --> 00:42:22.570
So I've been looking to get off of
00:42:22.610 --> 00:42:23.170
it anyway.
00:42:23.251 --> 00:42:23.710
But again,
00:42:24.291 --> 00:42:25.873
I got off Psychology Today a while ago
00:42:25.893 --> 00:42:27.193
because they're a garbage company and I
00:42:27.213 --> 00:42:28.114
don't want to give them money.
00:42:28.853 --> 00:42:29.454
At some point,
00:42:30.565 --> 00:42:31.666
I'm a small business owner who has to
00:42:31.726 --> 00:42:33.427
advertise and there aren't a ton of great
00:42:33.527 --> 00:42:36.110
options out there because the other
00:42:36.190 --> 00:42:37.670
options that might be more ethically
00:42:37.690 --> 00:42:38.831
aligned, um,
00:42:39.791 --> 00:42:41.313
can't compete because the internet is
00:42:41.454 --> 00:42:44.014
owned by tech fascists and they promote
00:42:44.315 --> 00:42:47.358
bad people.
00:42:47.378 --> 00:42:48.938
That's where we're gonna end today.
00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:50.260
Oh, uh,
00:42:50.420 --> 00:42:52.740
also I'm aware that the title of this
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:56.244
episode can read not all the rapists and
00:42:56.284 --> 00:42:59.226
it, it is hashtag not all therapists.
00:43:00.126 --> 00:43:02.327
I've seen Arrested Development, obviously.
00:43:03.909 --> 00:43:05.250
If you're like, why is that obvious?
00:43:05.269 --> 00:43:08.092
Then I perhaps think you haven't seen
00:43:08.112 --> 00:43:08.831
Arrested Development.
00:43:11.193 --> 00:43:12.213
I've also seen Maria Bamford.
00:43:12.233 --> 00:43:14.315
I'm pretty sure that's a Maria Bamford
00:43:14.356 --> 00:43:16.757
joke before it became a running gag about
00:43:16.918 --> 00:43:19.539
Tobias Funke on Arrested Development.
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:21.561
But I just watched a Maria Bamford
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:23.621
documentary, Paralyzed by Hope,
00:43:23.782 --> 00:43:24.483
strong recommend.
00:43:24.643 --> 00:43:25.784
Saw it at Milwaukee Film Fest,
00:43:25.943 --> 00:43:26.784
also a strong recommend.
00:43:26.844 --> 00:43:27.844
Go support your local cinema.
00:43:30.873 --> 00:43:36.336
and so yeah haha gotta have some light
00:43:36.376 --> 00:43:38.418
humor that's in the title the rest of
00:43:38.438 --> 00:43:45.161
the episode bit of a downer and again
00:43:45.240 --> 00:43:46.701
like i don't want to talk about it's
00:43:46.721 --> 00:43:47.501
not that i don't want to talk about
00:43:47.521 --> 00:43:48.802
this i'm not avoiding talking about these
00:43:48.822 --> 00:43:51.282
things it's it's stuff i talk about
00:43:51.344 --> 00:43:54.344
regularly um i would love to be doing
00:43:56.141 --> 00:43:59.943
community-based Q&A every episode and not
00:44:00.123 --> 00:44:02.846
report on the news and terrible people
00:44:02.905 --> 00:44:06.288
doing terrible things.
00:44:06.387 --> 00:44:07.708
I'm on team collapse, right?
00:44:07.789 --> 00:44:08.789
Waiting for the better thing.
00:44:09.871 --> 00:44:11.452
Trying to actively participate and
00:44:11.492 --> 00:44:13.052
creating space for the better thing.
00:44:14.094 --> 00:44:18.117
So, you know, go engage with good,
00:44:18.336 --> 00:44:19.277
healthy community.
00:44:20.858 --> 00:44:21.498
Go find that.
00:44:21.619 --> 00:44:24.001
If it's not in your area, start it,
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:25.101
create it, make it.
00:44:29.550 --> 00:44:30.791
Fuck misogynistic men.
00:44:31.411 --> 00:44:32.172
Fuck abusers.
00:44:33.972 --> 00:44:34.753
Let's get them out of here.
00:44:34.793 --> 00:44:36.034
We can't build with them.
00:44:36.054 --> 00:44:36.793
They're destructive.
00:44:36.893 --> 00:44:40.476
Not builders.
00:44:41.576 --> 00:44:43.998
And yeah.
00:44:44.137 --> 00:44:45.498
My normal sign off.
00:44:45.538 --> 00:44:46.938
Take care of yourself.
00:44:46.958 --> 00:44:47.719
Take care of somebody else.
00:44:47.998 --> 00:44:49.019
And I mean that.
00:44:49.059 --> 00:44:49.800
Go do that today.
00:44:51.780 --> 00:44:52.862
Also fuck allergies.
00:44:53.702 --> 00:44:55.722
Hopefully this doesn't sound too nasally.
00:44:56.646 --> 00:44:57.949
right i'm out of here y'all take care
00:44:57.969 --> 00:44:59.693
uh we'll be back next week with another
00:44:59.753 --> 00:45:01.175
new episode peace