Your Therapist Needs Therapy
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Your Therapist Needs Therapy
Your Therapist Needs Therapy 156 - The Pen is Mightier than the Freud: The Weaponization of Therapy Speak
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In this week’s episode, Jeremy explores how therapy speak terms like gaslighting, narcissist, attachment, and trauma have drifted from clinical concepts into everyday weapons, and why curiosity is more healing than diagnosis. Jeremy talks about how to recognize the difference between using psychological language to build understanding and using it to shut conversations down. Basically, diagnosis can be helpful, but also, stop diagnosing everyone and everything.
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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.
Hello,
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and welcome to another edition of Your
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Therapist Needs Therapy.
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I am that therapist.
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I had therapy yesterday,
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so things are going well in my world.
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My name is Jeremy Schumacher.
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I am a licensed marriage and family
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therapist.
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And today,
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we're talking about one of my soapboxes.
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one of mine and many therapists'
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soapboxes,
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and something that the internet keeps
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getting wrong,
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but because people spend more time on the
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internet than they do in therapy.
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Like, rightfully so.
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I mean,
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people spend too much time on the
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internet,
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but I don't think people need to spend
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more time in therapy.
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I think people need to...
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be aware of the potential harm that comes
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with the language they're using when
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adopting, co-opting,
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misusing common therapy terms.
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And just what happens with therapy terms
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when they enter sort of the public
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awareness,
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when they enter the cultural zeitgeist and
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what happens to them.
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And because, you know,
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a horseshoe theory exists for sort of...
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Extreme spectrum side of things.
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What happens when we dumb it down to
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just also say that therapy speak is bad,
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which is not the point I'm making.
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That's for right-wing grifters to talk
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about because they're scared of their
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feelings.
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So this is not that therapy language is
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bad.
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This is more language matters.
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The words we use matter,
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and the way that too many people,
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particularly on the internet,
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are using Therapy Speak is a way to
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oversimplify, start generalizing,
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and not do any continuing work,
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which is a problem.
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So I'm a collaborative language therapist.
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I don't often necessarily label the work
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that I do.
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But if I have to fill out a
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form somewhere that has the different
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schools of thought,
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I inevitably have to write in
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collaborative language because it is never
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an option.
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It's a pretty niche style of therapy that
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I like to do.
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Collaborative language therapy comes from
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the postmodern school of therapies.
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So
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solution-focused,
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which used to be known as brief
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solution-focused therapy,
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narrative therapy,
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and collaborative language therapy were
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all sort of packaged together back in my
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schooling days when I first learned about
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it.
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And I've spoken glowingly about Harleen
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Anderson and her work previously,
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her book, Conversations, Language,
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and Possibilities,
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was the thing that like not just kept
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me in grad school and on the path
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to becoming a therapist,
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but like changed the way that I was
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becoming a therapist and has really
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influenced my entire career.
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um phenomenal book it's still on my
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bookshelf it's one of the books that has
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probably lasted longest on my therapy
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shelf i swap things out somewhat regularly
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and there's a lot more books that aren't
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therapy books than there used to be on
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there because i think there's less utility
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to therapy books um
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So collaborative language therapy is a lot
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about words.
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And I'm a nerd about words.
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The hip hop that I listen to is
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predominantly about the wordplay in it.
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My favorite band is Pink Floyd because I
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like their lyrics.
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I think the language matters and I think
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words matter.
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Collaborative language is all about
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meaning-making and understanding being an
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ongoing process that happens while you're
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conversing with another person.
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It happens in conversation.
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You are actively dialoguing with another
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person and where that happens,
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when that happens, how that happens,
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all shapes the meaning-making that is
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created,
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but there's an active and ongoing living
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process and words are the vehicle in which
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that meaning-making is understood.
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And so setting matters and environment
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matters and other circumstances matter,
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but how we as a species interact with
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each other is our words.
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It's what sets us apart from other
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species.
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And it's,
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it's how we do something like meaning
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making.
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And so I'm like a word nerd.
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Both my parents at various points in their
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careers, both of them are teachers,
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were teachers, they're both retired,
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I suppose.
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Both of them were English teachers at
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different points in their career,
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which is very funny because like my mom's
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a word nerd and my dad is not.
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And so they're very different types of
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English teachers.
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But that's just sort of,
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The household I grew up in,
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words were important.
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I grew up talking about alliteration in
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poems and talked about the precision of
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language,
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say what you mean and mean what you
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say.
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It was like a common sort of mantra
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in our house.
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of the secular mantras that were
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available, pretty limited,
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lots of religious slop I grew up with.
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And again,
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we'll get into who uses words a certain
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way with politics,
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but religion is a really good example.
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And for all my religious trauma survivors
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that I work with,
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for all the people who are tuning in,
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coming from that background,
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this is gonna make a ton of sense
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to you on what language, why language,
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the words we use affect the meaning.
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Like this is not like a heady concept,
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that makes sense, right?
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Do we call a hot dog a sandwich?
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And like, why not?
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Is a taco a sandwich?
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Some of these sort of funny memefied ideas
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highlight and make very accessible the
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idea that like language is important.
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And also language is sort of silly.
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And so where it moves from this makes
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sense, obviously,
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to some of the headiness is like,
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you know,
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reading a bunch of
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Derrida and Foucault and a bunch of other
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French philosophers from the postmodern
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movement,
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but also that every single word carries
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that opportunity and every single word
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comes with all sorts of meaning attached
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to it,
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both for the speaker and the listener.
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And so there's so much rich nuance there
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that the headiness is not in the concept
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itself,
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but in how crazy complicated it gets the
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more words we use.
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Are we talking to one person?
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Are we talking to two people?
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Are we talking to a group?
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Do we have a family dynamic?
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And so when you start looking at the
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therapy application of collaborative
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language,
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it makes a lot of lovely sense how
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much interplay is available in words when
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you're working with couples or you're
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working with families, which is, again,
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how I was trained.
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I'm a little far afield of the topic,
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but I wanna highlight that language is
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what I've been doing in my therapy work
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forever.
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it's talk therapy and the style of therapy
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that I like is very language based.
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Now,
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one of the criticisms of that style
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therapy is certainly that it misses a lot
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of the body.
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It focuses perhaps too much on just the
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words and historically perhaps has missed
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some of the set and settings,
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some of the circumstances around
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surrounding a conversation,
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the environment in which that conversation
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happens.
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Again, I think that is,
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awareness that that some of the larger
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people in the field have and write and
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talk about and certainly the younger
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generation is bringing in some body-based
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ideas around that and some somatic work
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too which i think is really great for
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those of you who follow along that's a
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big part of my work um i'm sort
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of this lucy goosey lucy goosey is the
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wrong word um unstructured intentionally
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a therapist who uses collaborative
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language, but then I also do somatic work.
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I also do DBT.
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I've trained and worked with psychedelics.
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So there is that language part of my
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work that I really, really,
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really love and have always been aligned
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with.
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And the longer I've been doing therapy,
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the more I've incorporated other things
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that are body-based because I do think we
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need both.
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While language is what separates us from
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other species,
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we are still just mammals and our brain
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is an organ.
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And so it serves a very organic purpose
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beyond just languaging.
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But words are powerful and therapy speak
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is also powerful.
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The idea, again,
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when we sort of bring in a power
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analysis, a therapist saying,
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you have an anxiety disorder.
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When a therapist says, hey, you are...
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clinically depressed when a therapist says
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based on this assessment and our
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conversations i'm diagnosing you with
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autism spectrum disorder though the weight
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of that language shifts when it's coming
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from an authority figure like a therapist
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or a doctor or psychiatrist right um
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But I think anybody who's doing that in
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a helpful way is being aware that like
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this language in and of itself isn't
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meaning making.
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The language is a summary or a shorthand
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for something else.
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When I am working with late diagnosed
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people and we talk about ADHD,
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ADHD is a shorthand for the symptoms,
00:09:25.203 --> 00:09:27.966
the cluster of behaviors that go along
00:09:28.046 --> 00:09:30.827
with that person's neurotype.
00:09:31.408 --> 00:09:32.589
And again,
00:09:32.688 --> 00:09:34.629
I think the DSM gets it wrong.
00:09:34.950 --> 00:09:36.370
Long time listeners know I don't speak
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highly of the DSM.
00:09:38.057 --> 00:09:39.298
I don't speak highly of how the DSM
00:09:39.317 --> 00:09:39.697
started,
00:09:39.717 --> 00:09:41.839
and I certainly don't speak highly of how
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it's used now,
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which is not at all the way that
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it was designed to be used, capitalism.
00:09:49.563 --> 00:09:51.644
But the words matter.
00:09:52.225 --> 00:09:52.686
And again,
00:09:52.765 --> 00:09:55.607
when we're saying it's not so much that
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it needs to come from an authority,
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but authority in most of these cases with
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licensed professionals derives from
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experience and education.
00:10:04.812 --> 00:10:05.113
And again,
00:10:05.232 --> 00:10:07.475
I'm very wary of putting people on a
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pedestal.
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Collaborative language therapy is very
00:10:09.615 --> 00:10:11.317
much based on the idea that therapists are
00:10:11.356 --> 00:10:12.398
not experts.
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We exist in a space of not knowing,
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and our job is to begin to know,
00:10:18.942 --> 00:10:20.082
to create new knowing,
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to create new understanding with our
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clients.
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And so we're not experts telling clients
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what to do.
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It's not prescriptive.
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It is
00:10:27.543 --> 00:10:29.724
about not knowing and curiosity
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surrounding that.
00:10:30.344 --> 00:10:32.625
And the language is the vehicle to create
00:10:32.705 --> 00:10:33.225
understanding.
00:10:35.025 --> 00:10:38.248
But we live in a world where sometimes
00:10:38.268 --> 00:10:39.268
people want that.
00:10:39.307 --> 00:10:41.950
Sometimes people want someone to say,
00:10:42.029 --> 00:10:42.830
what is going on?
00:10:42.950 --> 00:10:43.990
What are my options?
00:10:44.051 --> 00:10:45.191
What would be helpful?
00:10:45.730 --> 00:10:46.932
I don't want to go to the mechanic
00:10:47.011 --> 00:10:48.253
and them to say, huh,
00:10:48.773 --> 00:10:50.133
what do you think's wrong with your car?
00:10:50.714 --> 00:10:53.215
Because I don't fucking know anything
00:10:53.235 --> 00:10:53.875
about cars.
00:10:54.315 --> 00:10:55.416
I would love you to fix it.
00:10:56.397 --> 00:10:58.119
And so some clients,
00:10:58.139 --> 00:10:59.181
some people come into therapy and
00:10:59.201 --> 00:11:00.081
certainly want that.
00:11:00.361 --> 00:11:00.643
And again,
00:11:00.663 --> 00:11:02.625
that's where I think good therapists have
00:11:02.666 --> 00:11:04.168
different modalities that they can draw
00:11:04.207 --> 00:11:04.347
from.
00:11:04.408 --> 00:11:06.510
A therapist just doing one thing over and
00:11:06.551 --> 00:11:08.212
over again with every client is a huge
00:11:08.273 --> 00:11:08.774
disservice.
00:11:12.503 --> 00:11:14.783
But education and experience matters.
00:11:14.844 --> 00:11:16.605
The idea that it's coming from somebody
00:11:16.644 --> 00:11:19.427
who's trained and studied this for a while
00:11:19.726 --> 00:11:20.888
is meaningful,
00:11:21.008 --> 00:11:23.749
and therefore the words exist in that
00:11:23.808 --> 00:11:24.469
context.
00:11:24.548 --> 00:11:24.850
Again,
00:11:24.909 --> 00:11:26.691
zooming out and looking at environment.
00:11:27.691 --> 00:11:28.552
When I talk about...
00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:30.480
autism spectrum disorder,
00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:32.240
I'd talk about ADHD or any other
00:11:32.301 --> 00:11:34.282
diagnostic criteria,
00:11:34.721 --> 00:11:36.701
that means a certain thing to me.
00:11:37.302 --> 00:11:38.462
Whereas, you know,
00:11:39.403 --> 00:11:43.085
BuzzFeed top ten list uses those words
00:11:43.184 --> 00:11:43.684
differently.
00:11:43.705 --> 00:11:44.345
And it
00:11:45.974 --> 00:11:48.274
That is the first thing to sort of
00:11:48.294 --> 00:11:49.855
pay attention to is like where these words
00:11:49.875 --> 00:11:51.236
are being used matters.
00:11:51.918 --> 00:11:53.577
If you're in the middle of an argument
00:11:53.618 --> 00:11:55.019
with a partner and they say,
00:11:55.058 --> 00:11:57.880
stop gaslighting me,
00:11:57.921 --> 00:12:00.381
that is different than a therapist saying
00:12:00.461 --> 00:12:00.962
gaslighting.
00:12:00.982 --> 00:12:03.104
Gaslighting is my go-to example for this
00:12:03.144 --> 00:12:06.046
phenomenon in that I don't know that I've
00:12:06.145 --> 00:12:08.326
ever heard somebody use it correctly.
00:12:12.426 --> 00:12:14.587
I've heard myself use it, I suppose,
00:12:14.688 --> 00:12:15.188
in therapy,
00:12:15.288 --> 00:12:16.551
explaining to people what it actually
00:12:16.571 --> 00:12:17.851
means and how we actually use it.
00:12:17.892 --> 00:12:21.155
But gaslighting isn't a different opinion.
00:12:21.235 --> 00:12:23.317
Gaslighting isn't just simply lying.
00:12:24.259 --> 00:12:27.842
It is a pattern of behaviors designed to
00:12:27.942 --> 00:12:30.605
elicit an abuse response.
00:12:31.047 --> 00:12:32.928
And so it's one of those things where
00:12:32.989 --> 00:12:33.690
that's not like a...
00:12:35.014 --> 00:12:35.214
Oh,
00:12:35.254 --> 00:12:36.596
my friends were gaslighting me this
00:12:36.635 --> 00:12:36.975
weekend.
00:12:37.056 --> 00:12:37.657
Ha ha.
00:12:37.777 --> 00:12:40.298
Like it's not mild.
00:12:40.359 --> 00:12:41.441
It's a pattern of abuse.
00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.562
And there's a power dynamic involved and
00:12:43.582 --> 00:12:44.703
there's manipulation involved.
00:12:44.724 --> 00:12:46.024
And it's very intentional.
00:12:46.405 --> 00:12:48.167
That's different than you and your partner
00:12:48.187 --> 00:12:50.389
disagree about what you said last weekend
00:12:50.409 --> 00:12:51.870
your plans were going to be.
00:12:51.951 --> 00:12:53.873
One of you thought it was dinner and
00:12:53.913 --> 00:12:55.554
one of you thought it was lunch.
00:12:55.695 --> 00:12:57.476
And that's not gaslighting.
00:12:59.903 --> 00:13:03.446
So, um, the context matters again,
00:13:03.645 --> 00:13:05.025
I think most of the time when I
00:13:05.086 --> 00:13:06.966
hear some of this stuff and I don't
00:13:07.006 --> 00:13:08.327
watch reality TV,
00:13:08.408 --> 00:13:10.908
but I do see clips enough and people
00:13:11.249 --> 00:13:13.929
analyzing clips, um, to know, like,
00:13:14.009 --> 00:13:14.971
I think it's there a lot.
00:13:15.010 --> 00:13:17.371
This therapy speak is sort of normalized
00:13:17.451 --> 00:13:18.932
in the reality TV sphere,
00:13:18.951 --> 00:13:19.993
which is just a thing I'm,
00:13:20.413 --> 00:13:21.553
I'm not familiar with.
00:13:22.394 --> 00:13:22.453
Um,
00:13:24.445 --> 00:13:25.785
But sometimes people are using therapy
00:13:25.806 --> 00:13:28.048
speak as an appeal to authority, right?
00:13:28.087 --> 00:13:29.669
As a cognitive bias,
00:13:29.710 --> 00:13:31.311
as a shorthand to say,
00:13:31.870 --> 00:13:33.472
I learned this from my therapist.
00:13:33.873 --> 00:13:35.274
My therapist taught me to recognize the
00:13:35.333 --> 00:13:35.674
pattern.
00:13:35.735 --> 00:13:36.975
Now that I recognize the pattern,
00:13:37.375 --> 00:13:39.437
I'm diagnosing your behaviors.
00:13:39.977 --> 00:13:41.580
Like by and large for therapists,
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:42.581
that's not what we're doing.
00:13:42.620 --> 00:13:44.241
We're not trying to go create a bunch
00:13:44.261 --> 00:13:45.442
of amateur therapists.
00:13:46.423 --> 00:13:48.485
We're trying to help people get healthy.
00:13:48.894 --> 00:13:49.094
right?
00:13:49.153 --> 00:13:50.794
When I take the car to the mechanic,
00:13:50.835 --> 00:13:52.075
I don't want the mechanic to teach me
00:13:52.115 --> 00:13:53.015
how to fix it.
00:13:53.475 --> 00:13:54.576
I guess in an ideal world,
00:13:54.596 --> 00:13:55.736
that is what I want in that I
00:13:55.756 --> 00:13:57.498
have unlimited free time and lots of
00:13:57.557 --> 00:13:58.077
resources.
00:13:58.118 --> 00:13:59.839
So I would like to know things.
00:13:59.918 --> 00:14:00.778
I like learning.
00:14:01.899 --> 00:14:03.341
But no, in the modern world,
00:14:03.400 --> 00:14:04.681
I just want them to fix it.
00:14:06.101 --> 00:14:08.263
Exchange of money for goods, you know?
00:14:11.104 --> 00:14:12.524
So the mechanic isn't trying to create a
00:14:12.544 --> 00:14:13.664
bunch of amateur mechanics.
00:14:13.705 --> 00:14:14.966
The mechanic is just
00:14:15.534 --> 00:14:17.216
fixing it now therapy is different than
00:14:17.256 --> 00:14:19.418
mechanics right that metaphor doesn't go
00:14:19.458 --> 00:14:20.960
real far in this example because
00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:24.524
therapists aren't fixing things either um
00:14:24.543 --> 00:14:25.705
but therapists are helping people to
00:14:25.804 --> 00:14:27.466
recognize and identify their own patterns
00:14:27.586 --> 00:14:32.030
not importantly underline three times to
00:14:32.071 --> 00:14:37.355
do that to or for other people right
00:14:37.677 --> 00:14:39.798
and one of the things that helps um
00:14:41.388 --> 00:14:43.908
me understand some of the dynamics is like
00:14:43.928 --> 00:14:46.328
sometimes people are using therapy speak
00:14:46.349 --> 00:14:48.669
to establish their own authority it's
00:14:48.769 --> 00:14:51.250
they're trying to create a power imbalance
00:14:51.311 --> 00:14:53.652
or tap into some sort of power that
00:14:53.731 --> 00:14:57.013
isn't again based on years of training and
00:14:57.312 --> 00:14:57.673
study
00:14:58.856 --> 00:15:01.119
um and so it becomes a shorthand not
00:15:01.158 --> 00:15:03.519
for let's describe simply this symptom of
00:15:03.880 --> 00:15:06.221
of behaviors or this uh cluster of
00:15:06.261 --> 00:15:10.465
symptoms let's instead shorthand i know
00:15:10.485 --> 00:15:11.566
what i'm talking about and you don't
00:15:11.625 --> 00:15:13.486
therefore i'm correct and that's like not
00:15:13.667 --> 00:15:16.568
good that's again a grab at power um
00:15:16.609 --> 00:15:17.909
sometimes people are using therapy speak
00:15:17.929 --> 00:15:21.491
to avoid accountability um i've done the
00:15:21.532 --> 00:15:23.293
work i've healed um
00:15:26.379 --> 00:15:27.100
You know,
00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:28.380
I don't have a ton of good examples
00:15:28.421 --> 00:15:30.642
because it does seem with the rise of
00:15:30.662 --> 00:15:32.743
fascism and authoritarianism that we have
00:15:32.763 --> 00:15:34.144
a bunch of shitty people who have just
00:15:34.183 --> 00:15:35.644
sort of learned they don't apologize for
00:15:35.663 --> 00:15:37.345
anything because the president is a rapist
00:15:37.384 --> 00:15:39.025
and a pedophile and he didn't apologize
00:15:39.046 --> 00:15:40.826
and like worked for him.
00:15:41.326 --> 00:15:42.248
So I do feel like we have sort
00:15:42.268 --> 00:15:44.068
of the worst people like not doing
00:15:44.089 --> 00:15:44.428
anything.
00:15:45.769 --> 00:15:46.750
And again,
00:15:47.051 --> 00:15:48.471
I've spoken about accountability as sort
00:15:48.491 --> 00:15:50.133
of a vague concept that nobody really
00:15:50.274 --> 00:15:51.674
understands how to actually do.
00:15:51.815 --> 00:15:53.976
So I don't necessarily know what like
00:15:54.037 --> 00:15:55.677
Louis CK should be doing for
00:15:55.717 --> 00:15:56.538
accountability.
00:15:57.539 --> 00:16:00.763
But I do think without any formal like
00:16:00.822 --> 00:16:01.403
apology,
00:16:01.523 --> 00:16:02.923
exiling him for a few years and then
00:16:02.984 --> 00:16:04.806
popping him back on Netflix doesn't seem
00:16:04.905 --> 00:16:05.626
great.
00:16:06.486 --> 00:16:06.888
Yeah.
00:16:08.870 --> 00:16:11.013
avoiding accountability can be in that
00:16:11.053 --> 00:16:12.294
sort of very public sector.
00:16:12.355 --> 00:16:13.395
Again, I've done the work.
00:16:13.836 --> 00:16:14.017
Um,
00:16:14.136 --> 00:16:16.058
I'm in therapy as a shorthand for like,
00:16:16.099 --> 00:16:17.740
stop holding me accountable for my,
00:16:17.780 --> 00:16:18.501
my behaviors.
00:16:19.243 --> 00:16:20.423
Um,
00:16:20.443 --> 00:16:22.166
but in a small focus and then not
00:16:22.206 --> 00:16:23.347
the public spotlight,
00:16:23.687 --> 00:16:25.870
I think it's just a conversation ender.
00:16:26.071 --> 00:16:26.270
Um,
00:16:27.839 --> 00:16:29.181
And so something like you're gaslighting
00:16:29.201 --> 00:16:30.802
me is a way to end a conversation.
00:16:31.302 --> 00:16:32.224
He's a narcissist.
00:16:32.244 --> 00:16:33.865
It's a way to end a conversation.
00:16:34.986 --> 00:16:36.028
She's a narcissist.
00:16:36.489 --> 00:16:38.792
Pathologizing disagreement.
00:16:38.851 --> 00:16:39.532
I'm triggered.
00:16:39.812 --> 00:16:41.214
You're crossing my boundaries.
00:16:41.234 --> 00:16:42.294
Yeah.
00:16:42.936 --> 00:16:44.797
Stop making me do the emotional labor.
00:16:45.317 --> 00:16:46.977
These are all ways where, again,
00:16:47.038 --> 00:16:48.639
I think it's both.
00:16:49.458 --> 00:16:50.759
It could be either or, or both.
00:16:52.321 --> 00:16:54.081
Pathologizing, disagreement,
00:16:54.361 --> 00:16:56.783
or ending a conversation, which again,
00:16:56.842 --> 00:16:58.403
may or may not be avoiding accountability.
00:17:01.365 --> 00:17:03.307
But these are all terms that meant
00:17:03.427 --> 00:17:06.228
something in the way that researchers were
00:17:06.268 --> 00:17:07.808
talking about certain topics and the way
00:17:07.848 --> 00:17:09.710
that the researchers were explaining
00:17:09.750 --> 00:17:11.671
things and then practitioners were
00:17:13.290 --> 00:17:15.353
researching things and back and forth in
00:17:15.373 --> 00:17:16.993
that ongoing process to create
00:17:17.013 --> 00:17:19.596
understanding and identify patterns in our
00:17:20.876 --> 00:17:21.758
species.
00:17:22.038 --> 00:17:24.460
And so something like triggered in the
00:17:24.500 --> 00:17:26.461
trauma world was an important thing to
00:17:26.481 --> 00:17:27.643
sort of understand and now
00:17:28.692 --> 00:17:30.053
the meaning has drifted i would say
00:17:30.093 --> 00:17:31.493
triggered has been in the cultural
00:17:31.513 --> 00:17:33.355
zeitgeist the longest and is probably the
00:17:33.434 --> 00:17:36.155
least inaccurate whereas like gaslighting
00:17:36.676 --> 00:17:39.678
narcissists um attachment styles
00:17:39.758 --> 00:17:42.579
boundaries emotional labor all those
00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:44.621
things have really started to i think
00:17:44.820 --> 00:17:46.281
drift and like i don't know
00:17:49.305 --> 00:17:49.424
the,
00:17:49.444 --> 00:17:52.266
the bastardization of language is not a
00:17:52.326 --> 00:17:53.207
new phenomenon,
00:17:53.247 --> 00:17:55.988
but I certainly think like the tick tock
00:17:56.709 --> 00:17:59.589
bastardization portmanteau available
00:17:59.609 --> 00:17:59.790
there.
00:17:59.810 --> 00:18:01.151
My brain's just not figuring it out.
00:18:02.011 --> 00:18:03.913
Um,
00:18:03.932 --> 00:18:06.074
that is speed running some of this stuff
00:18:06.114 --> 00:18:08.035
that that's just accelerating the process
00:18:08.075 --> 00:18:10.135
in which some of these terms can enter
00:18:10.257 --> 00:18:12.458
the cultural awareness and then the
00:18:12.498 --> 00:18:13.657
meaning starts to drift.
00:18:14.338 --> 00:18:14.959
And so, um,
00:18:17.717 --> 00:18:17.997
Again,
00:18:18.176 --> 00:18:21.617
language and therapy speak as a shorthand
00:18:21.657 --> 00:18:22.798
serves a purpose.
00:18:24.159 --> 00:18:26.259
I find it's very freeing for people when
00:18:26.338 --> 00:18:28.400
I do diagnose, which I don't always do.
00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:30.759
I don't bill insurance,
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:31.460
so I don't have to,
00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:34.800
which is awesome and I really like because
00:18:36.781 --> 00:18:38.761
the diagnostic model is based on the
00:18:38.781 --> 00:18:40.442
medical model, which is all deficit-based.
00:18:44.076 --> 00:18:47.178
that move has allowed me to diagnose when
00:18:47.218 --> 00:18:48.699
I think it will be helpful,
00:18:49.660 --> 00:18:51.240
which is helping people understand why
00:18:51.280 --> 00:18:52.701
their brain is doing what it's doing.
00:18:53.362 --> 00:18:55.843
And then the work becomes with that new
00:18:55.903 --> 00:18:57.384
information, with that understanding,
00:18:57.403 --> 00:19:00.125
with that paradigm shift, what do we do?
00:19:00.865 --> 00:19:02.507
What does healing potentially look like?
00:19:02.527 --> 00:19:04.008
What does management look like?
00:19:04.028 --> 00:19:07.570
What does resource allocation look like?
00:19:07.590 --> 00:19:09.311
What are realistic expectations?
00:19:09.832 --> 00:19:11.492
And so that knowledge is very helpful in
00:19:11.512 --> 00:19:12.594
that shorthand for
00:19:13.423 --> 00:19:16.205
This thing that impacts our resources,
00:19:16.286 --> 00:19:17.046
our management,
00:19:17.067 --> 00:19:21.269
our general functioning is a really
00:19:21.288 --> 00:19:22.650
helpful thing to be aware of.
00:19:22.710 --> 00:19:25.051
And so that diagnosis is very powerful and
00:19:25.112 --> 00:19:27.733
very helpful, right?
00:19:27.794 --> 00:19:30.296
It's not inherently prescriptive.
00:19:31.211 --> 00:19:32.413
It's with this information,
00:19:32.452 --> 00:19:33.473
what do we want to do next?
00:19:34.115 --> 00:19:35.776
And it's for people who are really
00:19:35.796 --> 00:19:36.136
struggling.
00:19:36.156 --> 00:19:36.297
Like,
00:19:36.416 --> 00:19:38.419
why is it so hard for me to
00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:41.121
go from task A to task B?
00:19:41.261 --> 00:19:42.982
Why do I get so bothered when my
00:19:43.002 --> 00:19:44.124
partner says this thing?
00:19:44.203 --> 00:19:47.207
Why do I go into shutdown when this
00:19:47.247 --> 00:19:47.988
thing happens?
00:19:50.548 --> 00:19:53.371
And so that shorthand can explain a lot
00:19:53.391 --> 00:19:54.271
of complex processes,
00:19:54.311 --> 00:19:55.613
how they work together for that person's
00:19:55.653 --> 00:19:57.513
specific brain.
00:19:58.115 --> 00:19:59.776
I'm gonna keep going back to my mechanic
00:19:59.836 --> 00:20:00.276
analogy,
00:20:00.316 --> 00:20:01.517
even though it's not a great analogy.
00:20:04.118 --> 00:20:08.261
If you drive a Toyota,
00:20:08.301 --> 00:20:09.522
if you drive a Prius,
00:20:10.483 --> 00:20:11.904
you don't want your mechanic putting Honda
00:20:11.944 --> 00:20:12.565
parts in it.
00:20:13.165 --> 00:20:14.267
And one of the things with therapy is
00:20:14.287 --> 00:20:15.788
like that very specific,
00:20:17.010 --> 00:20:18.912
personalization you get from your
00:20:18.991 --> 00:20:21.452
therapist is specific to you.
00:20:21.833 --> 00:20:22.854
And then people want to go out and
00:20:22.894 --> 00:20:25.775
extrapolate their anecdotal experience in
00:20:25.795 --> 00:20:26.395
their own life,
00:20:26.415 --> 00:20:28.036
their lived experience to say it,
00:20:28.116 --> 00:20:29.537
it makes sense to me for this.
00:20:29.576 --> 00:20:30.998
So it must be true for everyone else.
00:20:31.018 --> 00:20:31.337
And again,
00:20:31.597 --> 00:20:32.739
I think this is one of the things
00:20:32.778 --> 00:20:34.859
where it like, the meaning drifts,
00:20:34.900 --> 00:20:36.861
but also it starts to lose meaning because
00:20:36.881 --> 00:20:37.681
that just simply,
00:20:38.382 --> 00:20:40.803
it's a shorthand for you.
00:20:40.883 --> 00:20:41.083
Right?
00:20:42.096 --> 00:20:43.396
Wellness with Jer,
00:20:44.018 --> 00:20:47.380
if you have no concept of English naming,
00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:51.002
you don't know what Jer is short for.
00:20:51.063 --> 00:20:53.905
And even if you know English names,
00:20:54.026 --> 00:20:55.626
you might not know what Jer is short
00:20:55.666 --> 00:20:56.627
for because it could be a couple of
00:20:56.647 --> 00:20:59.230
different things, right?
00:20:59.329 --> 00:21:00.049
And I have people who are like,
00:21:00.069 --> 00:21:01.491
is your full name Jeremiah?
00:21:01.511 --> 00:21:02.673
Because they think I've shortened from
00:21:02.732 --> 00:21:04.273
Jeremiah to Jeremy to Jer.
00:21:04.294 --> 00:21:05.914
Like, nah, it's just Jeremy.
00:21:06.275 --> 00:21:07.896
But, you know, like...
00:21:09.912 --> 00:21:12.433
That shorthand serves a purpose for me and
00:21:12.474 --> 00:21:13.895
for the people who know me and people
00:21:13.935 --> 00:21:15.257
who refer to me a certain way,
00:21:15.657 --> 00:21:17.338
but it is an effective shorthand for
00:21:17.459 --> 00:21:18.099
everyone.
00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:20.501
And that's the reality of diagnoses,
00:21:20.803 --> 00:21:22.284
of symptom clusters,
00:21:22.624 --> 00:21:24.886
of this language that's identifying
00:21:24.946 --> 00:21:25.366
patterns.
00:21:25.386 --> 00:21:27.028
This is a good shorthand for you.
00:21:28.473 --> 00:21:30.095
If we're talking about attachment styles,
00:21:31.595 --> 00:21:33.796
of the things I threw out as examples,
00:21:33.855 --> 00:21:35.256
probably the one I have the least issue
00:21:35.296 --> 00:21:37.196
with, well,
00:21:37.416 --> 00:21:38.356
I don't have any issue with boundaries.
00:21:38.396 --> 00:21:41.238
I just have issue with what people think
00:21:41.278 --> 00:21:41.958
boundaries mean.
00:21:41.978 --> 00:21:43.219
I talked about that in the past.
00:21:43.239 --> 00:21:44.699
You can find that stuff out on my
00:21:44.719 --> 00:21:48.280
website or past podcast episodes.
00:21:52.372 --> 00:21:54.853
Attachment style is like a good starting
00:21:54.913 --> 00:21:55.252
point.
00:21:55.814 --> 00:21:57.474
But anything that dumbs down,
00:21:57.815 --> 00:21:58.875
dumbs down is the wrong word.
00:21:59.756 --> 00:22:00.756
See, language matters.
00:22:01.737 --> 00:22:04.218
Anything that oversimplifies to such a
00:22:04.258 --> 00:22:06.078
degree that all of humanity can be
00:22:06.159 --> 00:22:09.401
understood under three to six different
00:22:09.441 --> 00:22:12.241
categories is woefully inadequate.
00:22:13.363 --> 00:22:14.603
And I think a lot of times,
00:22:14.742 --> 00:22:14.962
I mean,
00:22:15.123 --> 00:22:16.923
people who study attachment style and no
00:22:16.943 --> 00:22:18.384
attachment style, there's more than three.
00:22:18.825 --> 00:22:20.746
But I think the cultural awareness of
00:22:20.766 --> 00:22:21.747
attachment style is
00:22:22.671 --> 00:22:26.571
pretty limited anxious avoidant and secure
00:22:27.613 --> 00:22:28.833
I would say is what most of my
00:22:28.873 --> 00:22:31.354
clients come in knowing before working
00:22:31.374 --> 00:22:33.213
with me um and like that's a fine
00:22:33.273 --> 00:22:34.295
start enough point but again it's a
00:22:34.335 --> 00:22:36.134
shorthand and it's shorthand for you we're
00:22:36.174 --> 00:22:39.375
using that in context and you will have
00:22:39.435 --> 00:22:41.116
different attachments with different
00:22:41.156 --> 00:22:43.938
people so again even just style and
00:22:43.958 --> 00:22:46.259
attachment style is a shorthand somebody
00:22:46.318 --> 00:22:46.638
might be
00:22:47.917 --> 00:22:49.619
I don't know anything about fashion.
00:22:49.861 --> 00:22:50.821
I don't know anything about cars.
00:22:50.882 --> 00:22:52.324
And I keep using it in a mechanic
00:22:52.364 --> 00:22:52.784
metaphor.
00:22:53.965 --> 00:22:56.608
Someone's style might be very nineties
00:22:56.689 --> 00:22:57.490
grunge.
00:22:58.030 --> 00:22:59.192
That doesn't mean they dress that way all
00:22:59.232 --> 00:22:59.653
the time.
00:22:59.712 --> 00:22:59.873
Right?
00:22:59.913 --> 00:23:00.453
Like it's a,
00:23:01.457 --> 00:23:03.959
style is a shorthand it's a a trend
00:23:03.999 --> 00:23:06.342
it's a a pattern not an all or
00:23:06.382 --> 00:23:08.624
nothing not an always thing and so like
00:23:08.683 --> 00:23:11.266
again attachment style is not inherently
00:23:11.326 --> 00:23:13.208
diagnostic in the sense that it becomes
00:23:13.288 --> 00:23:17.332
predictive it's not if this then that if
00:23:17.372 --> 00:23:18.113
somebody who is
00:23:19.355 --> 00:23:21.136
has an attachment style that is anxious
00:23:21.196 --> 00:23:22.958
and somebody who's a attachment style
00:23:22.978 --> 00:23:24.459
who's avoidant get together it's not going
00:23:24.479 --> 00:23:26.080
to work because of this and like that's
00:23:26.101 --> 00:23:27.422
the type of that i see on tick
00:23:27.442 --> 00:23:28.823
tock that's the type of stuff that clients
00:23:28.843 --> 00:23:30.163
send to me be like oh no my
00:23:30.263 --> 00:23:32.066
relationship is never gonna work
00:23:33.035 --> 00:23:36.397
My clients don't talk like that.
00:23:36.438 --> 00:23:38.038
That's how I read all texts.
00:23:41.300 --> 00:23:41.642
And again,
00:23:41.682 --> 00:23:43.782
it's a genuine concern because it's a
00:23:43.863 --> 00:23:46.105
therapist or therapist presenting person.
00:23:46.144 --> 00:23:47.925
It's a life coach, a relationship expert,
00:23:47.945 --> 00:23:49.207
whatever the fuck that means,
00:23:50.448 --> 00:23:52.289
putting that stuff out on the internet.
00:23:52.349 --> 00:23:54.471
And so attachment style, oh,
00:23:54.531 --> 00:23:55.932
I read that in a book my therapist
00:23:55.972 --> 00:23:56.452
recommended.
00:23:56.492 --> 00:23:58.494
So it's got that recommendation.
00:23:58.535 --> 00:23:59.776
And then this person's talking about
00:23:59.796 --> 00:24:00.875
attachment style and they said they
00:24:00.955 --> 00:24:02.096
research it and they study it and they
00:24:02.116 --> 00:24:02.938
wrote a paper on it.
00:24:03.459 --> 00:24:04.861
And so they must know what they're talking
00:24:04.901 --> 00:24:05.161
about.
00:24:05.582 --> 00:24:07.224
And then like we're all freaking out.
00:24:08.365 --> 00:24:09.848
And so again, like that,
00:24:10.461 --> 00:24:11.521
It's not predictive.
00:24:12.061 --> 00:24:14.784
It is helpful shorthand from that
00:24:14.844 --> 00:24:15.944
individual lens.
00:24:16.585 --> 00:24:18.487
And again, you're going to be like, well,
00:24:18.507 --> 00:24:18.666
Jeremy,
00:24:18.686 --> 00:24:20.067
I listen to your podcast a lot and
00:24:20.087 --> 00:24:22.189
you talk a lot about nuance and how
00:24:22.309 --> 00:24:24.490
easily predictable large groups of people
00:24:24.570 --> 00:24:24.711
are.
00:24:24.951 --> 00:24:25.692
And so, again,
00:24:25.731 --> 00:24:29.315
the reason the shorthand keeps getting
00:24:29.355 --> 00:24:29.934
jumbled up,
00:24:30.015 --> 00:24:31.336
especially on something like social media,
00:24:31.415 --> 00:24:33.376
is because it does work to
00:24:35.395 --> 00:24:39.497
generalize to summarize a lot of people's
00:24:39.537 --> 00:24:41.938
behavior in a singular category.
00:24:41.958 --> 00:24:43.438
But again, that isn't predictive.
00:24:43.458 --> 00:24:45.739
That's why something like therapy exists
00:24:46.118 --> 00:24:47.619
because there's so much nuance on that
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:48.599
individual level.
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:50.901
So a lot of people can respond to
00:24:51.800 --> 00:24:53.903
Something like attachment styles,
00:24:54.002 --> 00:24:55.604
more harmful example would be something
00:24:55.624 --> 00:24:56.565
like love language,
00:24:56.585 --> 00:24:58.267
which is just a totally made up thing
00:24:58.307 --> 00:24:59.207
that will not die.
00:25:00.067 --> 00:25:00.307
Again,
00:25:00.327 --> 00:25:02.329
the idea that there are only five ways
00:25:02.369 --> 00:25:04.751
for humans to love each other is outright
00:25:04.791 --> 00:25:05.472
preposterous.
00:25:05.952 --> 00:25:07.334
And when you find out that it comes
00:25:07.434 --> 00:25:10.797
from a pastor who had no psych training
00:25:10.836 --> 00:25:12.239
and just made it up on the spot,
00:25:12.439 --> 00:25:13.740
it gets even worse, which like,
00:25:14.223 --> 00:25:14.903
That's what pastors do,
00:25:14.923 --> 00:25:16.625
because scriptures are made up.
00:25:16.905 --> 00:25:19.307
But that's the topic for a different
00:25:19.326 --> 00:25:20.047
podcast.
00:25:20.387 --> 00:25:21.528
For this podcast,
00:25:21.587 --> 00:25:22.509
just a different episode.
00:25:26.730 --> 00:25:26.991
Yeah,
00:25:27.112 --> 00:25:30.574
so anytime that shorthand is being used as
00:25:30.594 --> 00:25:33.214
a conversation ender instead of a
00:25:33.394 --> 00:25:35.297
placeholder or a shorthand,
00:25:35.596 --> 00:25:37.718
a summary for a more complex thing,
00:25:38.898 --> 00:25:41.579
I'm overstimulated is a shorthand I will
00:25:41.660 --> 00:25:42.201
use often.
00:25:42.361 --> 00:25:42.540
I am
00:25:43.257 --> 00:25:45.339
neurodivergent, I'm ADHD and autistic,
00:25:45.681 --> 00:25:50.027
and that shorthand saves me and my partner
00:25:50.126 --> 00:25:51.809
a bunch of time for them to understand
00:25:51.829 --> 00:25:52.250
that like,
00:25:53.229 --> 00:25:54.869
Um, it could be too much stimuli.
00:25:54.890 --> 00:25:55.529
It could just be the,
00:25:55.930 --> 00:25:58.050
for me often with my audio HD brain
00:25:58.111 --> 00:26:00.590
is just the wrong mix of stimuli.
00:26:01.372 --> 00:26:01.511
Um,
00:26:01.531 --> 00:26:03.011
because I do really well when I am
00:26:03.071 --> 00:26:04.032
well stimulated,
00:26:04.133 --> 00:26:05.853
lack of stimulation doesn't help my brain
00:26:06.093 --> 00:26:06.712
most often.
00:26:07.213 --> 00:26:08.733
So it's not overstimulated.
00:26:08.773 --> 00:26:10.194
Well, let's get you less stimulation.
00:26:10.214 --> 00:26:11.755
It's often the wrong stimulation.
00:26:12.154 --> 00:26:12.394
But again,
00:26:12.434 --> 00:26:14.296
I just spent a minute clarifying that.
00:26:14.336 --> 00:26:16.155
And if I have to do that every
00:26:16.195 --> 00:26:18.376
time I'm overstimulated, like a,
00:26:18.436 --> 00:26:19.877
I'm not that good of a communicator when
00:26:19.897 --> 00:26:20.798
I'm overstimulated.
00:26:21.178 --> 00:26:23.138
And B, that's a huge time suck.
00:26:23.259 --> 00:26:26.579
And so I'm overstimulated creates an
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:28.901
understanding between people who spend a
00:26:28.941 --> 00:26:30.902
lot of time together and have built that
00:26:30.961 --> 00:26:32.903
understanding where that's a really useful
00:26:32.962 --> 00:26:33.383
shorthand.
00:26:33.682 --> 00:26:35.644
But my version of overstimulated isn't
00:26:35.683 --> 00:26:36.884
true for everyone else.
00:26:37.065 --> 00:26:40.526
And everyone else who gets overstimulated
00:26:40.546 --> 00:26:41.547
isn't going to want the same thing.
00:26:41.987 --> 00:26:43.027
And neurotypical people get
00:26:43.067 --> 00:26:43.807
overstimulated.
00:26:43.847 --> 00:26:45.048
And that means something to them.
00:26:45.428 --> 00:26:46.509
And neurodivergent people get
00:26:46.568 --> 00:26:47.269
overstimulated.
00:26:47.288 --> 00:26:49.150
And that means something else to them.
00:26:49.289 --> 00:26:49.390
And
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:54.124
it looks different for every individual on
00:26:54.163 --> 00:26:55.925
the spectrum.
00:26:55.986 --> 00:26:58.748
And so again, that idea that like,
00:26:59.367 --> 00:27:02.510
that's a useful shorthand in the way that
00:27:02.530 --> 00:27:02.931
saying,
00:27:04.058 --> 00:27:06.040
shortened version of a name or a nickname
00:27:06.560 --> 00:27:08.142
or a reference to a place that we
00:27:08.162 --> 00:27:11.183
have a fun name for or a secret
00:27:11.625 --> 00:27:14.027
text language we have with our partner or
00:27:14.067 --> 00:27:16.868
our best friend or whomever like as a
00:27:17.128 --> 00:27:19.431
placeholder for a more complex idea as a
00:27:19.510 --> 00:27:22.113
summary as a shorthand it works really
00:27:22.153 --> 00:27:23.133
well when it is
00:27:24.234 --> 00:27:25.816
I'm emotionally intelligent and you're
00:27:25.855 --> 00:27:27.357
not, end of conversation.
00:27:28.818 --> 00:27:30.539
You have to figure out your own trauma.
00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:34.383
I'm triggered as enders of communication.
00:27:34.423 --> 00:27:35.763
That is unhelpful.
00:27:36.084 --> 00:27:37.384
And that's not what the language was ever
00:27:37.424 --> 00:27:38.246
designed to do.
00:27:38.286 --> 00:27:39.547
The language was designed, again,
00:27:40.887 --> 00:27:43.808
share to create shared meaning.
00:27:44.548 --> 00:27:47.089
And again, once we've done that,
00:27:47.170 --> 00:27:49.371
now we have a convenient shorthand that we
00:27:49.391 --> 00:27:51.750
can use if something like that happens
00:27:51.791 --> 00:27:52.011
again.
00:27:52.071 --> 00:27:53.932
And so it saves us time and it's
00:27:53.951 --> 00:27:56.133
efficient when
00:27:58.228 --> 00:27:58.688
I'm biased,
00:27:58.748 --> 00:27:59.788
collaborative language therapy,
00:27:59.808 --> 00:28:02.650
but when it's been built in relation,
00:28:03.691 --> 00:28:06.451
when that is knowledge that's been built
00:28:06.531 --> 00:28:09.334
together and shared over time,
00:28:09.453 --> 00:28:11.835
it becomes very efficient.
00:28:13.296 --> 00:28:14.276
So, you know,
00:28:14.296 --> 00:28:17.837
and this is how knowledge then moves into
00:28:17.877 --> 00:28:19.338
like protecting hierarchies,
00:28:19.378 --> 00:28:21.039
which is not what therapy is.
00:28:22.421 --> 00:28:23.361
is a little bit of what therapy was
00:28:23.381 --> 00:28:23.901
designed to do.
00:28:23.961 --> 00:28:25.082
We were actively,
00:28:25.142 --> 00:28:26.582
those of us doing good work in the
00:28:26.622 --> 00:28:28.041
field are actively working to continue to
00:28:28.082 --> 00:28:28.741
dismantle that.
00:28:29.422 --> 00:28:30.603
But in theory,
00:28:31.123 --> 00:28:34.282
psychology and therapy specifically is one
00:28:34.423 --> 00:28:37.263
of the things that does increase empathy.
00:28:38.723 --> 00:28:41.605
And so when our curiosity is ending,
00:28:41.644 --> 00:28:44.204
when our care concern, when our learning,
00:28:44.244 --> 00:28:46.105
when our pursuit of understanding is
00:28:46.265 --> 00:28:47.986
ending because of the language we're
00:28:48.006 --> 00:28:49.246
using, we're doing it wrong.
00:28:50.491 --> 00:28:51.932
And I'm not saying every conversation
00:28:51.972 --> 00:28:53.354
needs to go on and on and on.
00:28:53.394 --> 00:28:55.075
There are things where we need to off
00:28:55.115 --> 00:28:55.355
ramp.
00:28:55.375 --> 00:28:56.655
There are ways that we can end
00:28:56.736 --> 00:28:58.636
conversations to be good communicators.
00:29:00.478 --> 00:29:02.579
I'm not saying that these things can never
00:29:02.619 --> 00:29:03.700
be conversation enders.
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:04.721
I'm just saying if that's how they're
00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:06.521
being used regularly or that's what's
00:29:06.561 --> 00:29:07.182
being modeled,
00:29:07.222 --> 00:29:09.003
that's gonna keep making the use of them
00:29:09.903 --> 00:29:10.404
worse.
00:29:11.945 --> 00:29:13.846
When we're not labeling
00:29:15.287 --> 00:29:16.788
ourselves or other people,
00:29:17.067 --> 00:29:18.648
certainly not labeling other people,
00:29:18.689 --> 00:29:19.990
certainly not diagnosing other people,
00:29:20.009 --> 00:29:21.891
especially if we have no training or
00:29:21.931 --> 00:29:24.152
credibility to be doing diagnostics,
00:29:27.074 --> 00:29:28.634
we wanna be observing,
00:29:28.654 --> 00:29:31.176
we wanna use language to,
00:29:33.003 --> 00:29:34.765
Again, create understanding to engage.
00:29:34.805 --> 00:29:35.685
Think of the difference between an
00:29:35.766 --> 00:29:37.507
open-ended and a closed-ended question.
00:29:37.547 --> 00:29:40.209
An open-ended question is expansive.
00:29:40.269 --> 00:29:41.049
It's curious.
00:29:41.089 --> 00:29:43.411
A closed-ended question is there's an end.
00:29:43.431 --> 00:29:46.313
It's a yes or no, right or wrong,
00:29:46.452 --> 00:29:47.094
one or two.
00:29:48.035 --> 00:29:52.998
Open-ended is, again, boundless, really.
00:29:53.858 --> 00:29:58.060
And so something like triggered is like
00:29:58.902 --> 00:30:01.403
XYZ triggered me and I'm working on
00:30:02.816 --> 00:30:04.478
I'm soothing in this way,
00:30:04.518 --> 00:30:06.118
will you walk and talk with me instead
00:30:06.138 --> 00:30:06.940
of just sitting here?
00:30:06.980 --> 00:30:08.561
Will you you know, again, like there's,
00:30:09.563 --> 00:30:11.423
there's, we can recognize the pattern,
00:30:11.463 --> 00:30:13.046
we observe it, we can communicate it,
00:30:13.066 --> 00:30:14.507
because it helps whoever we're interacting
00:30:14.547 --> 00:30:14.708
with.
00:30:15.288 --> 00:30:15.888
And there's,
00:30:17.491 --> 00:30:19.051
inaction attached to it,
00:30:19.071 --> 00:30:21.512
there's something to do, there's soothing,
00:30:21.532 --> 00:30:22.792
there's resource management,
00:30:24.213 --> 00:30:26.173
there's resource gathering,
00:30:26.374 --> 00:30:28.795
there's stress relief,
00:30:29.414 --> 00:30:30.596
all that stuff is really great.
00:30:30.675 --> 00:30:31.476
And so again,
00:30:32.296 --> 00:30:35.457
I got triggered as a starting point as
00:30:35.497 --> 00:30:38.278
an observation that we use to create
00:30:38.317 --> 00:30:39.538
understanding with someone else in
00:30:39.617 --> 00:30:42.659
conversation and then have something else
00:30:42.679 --> 00:30:43.199
attached to it.
00:30:43.239 --> 00:30:44.700
So right, there's more to it.
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:45.779
And so
00:30:47.634 --> 00:30:50.415
I think that curiosity can be really
00:30:50.536 --> 00:30:51.317
helpful for people.
00:30:51.356 --> 00:30:53.057
And when I'm first working with people,
00:30:53.077 --> 00:30:55.079
when we don't have much language that has
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.141
any sort of shared meaning attached to it,
00:30:57.602 --> 00:30:58.582
there's a lot of curiosity.
00:30:58.602 --> 00:30:58.863
I'm like,
00:30:58.883 --> 00:31:00.203
what does that word mean to you?
00:31:00.243 --> 00:31:01.684
When you say X, Y, and Z,
00:31:01.744 --> 00:31:03.546
it might mean something like this to me.
00:31:03.566 --> 00:31:04.906
It means this to some of my other
00:31:04.926 --> 00:31:05.207
clients.
00:31:05.227 --> 00:31:06.067
What does that mean to you?
00:31:06.127 --> 00:31:06.748
I'm curious.
00:31:08.048 --> 00:31:08.469
Because again,
00:31:08.509 --> 00:31:10.150
even words that I know a lot about
00:31:10.190 --> 00:31:12.730
and I use regularly, there's nuance there.
00:31:12.750 --> 00:31:14.432
And I think that's where, again,
00:31:14.711 --> 00:31:15.913
circling all the way back to the
00:31:15.932 --> 00:31:16.532
collaborative language,
00:31:16.553 --> 00:31:17.792
like that's where it gets really heady
00:31:17.833 --> 00:31:20.193
because paying attention to that and not
00:31:20.213 --> 00:31:21.654
just letting our brain shortcut,
00:31:22.816 --> 00:31:25.717
which it likes to do on every single
00:31:25.757 --> 00:31:25.997
word,
00:31:27.232 --> 00:31:28.053
is really helpful.
00:31:28.153 --> 00:31:29.314
And I will tell you when a bunch
00:31:29.354 --> 00:31:31.174
of nerdy word therapists,
00:31:31.234 --> 00:31:32.195
a bunch of collaborative language
00:31:32.236 --> 00:31:33.076
therapists get together,
00:31:33.115 --> 00:31:35.277
sometimes it is exhausting because of all
00:31:35.356 --> 00:31:37.699
of the like languaging that is happening
00:31:38.118 --> 00:31:39.579
and everybody's hyper aware of it and
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:41.340
we're talking about it a lot, a lot,
00:31:41.361 --> 00:31:41.621
a lot.
00:31:41.661 --> 00:31:43.342
Like one of my criticisms,
00:31:43.541 --> 00:31:44.942
and I love this style of therapy,
00:31:45.363 --> 00:31:47.324
but like the writing style of it is
00:31:47.384 --> 00:31:49.484
really clunky and not accessible to just
00:31:49.785 --> 00:31:50.424
average people.
00:31:50.846 --> 00:31:52.326
Again, the concepts I really think are,
00:31:54.727 --> 00:31:57.288
so yeah i don't know why i was
00:31:57.307 --> 00:32:00.650
segueing that um but again when we're
00:32:00.710 --> 00:32:02.951
using language to describe an observation
00:32:03.010 --> 00:32:04.692
we're seeing something and we're curious
00:32:04.731 --> 00:32:06.772
about it or we're using it to observe
00:32:06.833 --> 00:32:08.734
our own patterns and our own behaviors and
00:32:08.755 --> 00:32:10.134
we're using that to help someone else
00:32:10.214 --> 00:32:12.876
understand when we're using language to
00:32:12.916 --> 00:32:14.738
create shared meaning that is what
00:32:14.798 --> 00:32:16.798
language is for not
00:32:17.642 --> 00:32:18.701
to end a conversation,
00:32:18.942 --> 00:32:21.863
certainly not to pathologize and not to
00:32:21.923 --> 00:32:22.183
just,
00:32:22.903 --> 00:32:24.804
it's not a get out of conversation free
00:32:24.903 --> 00:32:25.265
card.
00:32:26.505 --> 00:32:29.685
It's a shorthand for a more complex thing
00:32:29.826 --> 00:32:31.646
and that makes most sense when we've built
00:32:31.686 --> 00:32:33.666
shared meaning with somebody using that
00:32:33.686 --> 00:32:34.528
same language as us.
00:32:35.667 --> 00:32:37.548
So yeah,
00:32:37.868 --> 00:32:40.170
stop getting relationship advice from the
00:32:40.190 --> 00:32:40.569
internet,
00:32:40.630 --> 00:32:42.650
stop getting your mental health diagnoses
00:32:42.710 --> 00:32:44.250
from TikTok, again,
00:32:45.603 --> 00:32:47.404
The nuance to that is, of course,
00:32:48.265 --> 00:32:49.506
I think a lot of people have been
00:32:49.605 --> 00:32:50.446
underdiagnosed.
00:32:50.606 --> 00:32:52.608
I think a lot of people benefit from
00:32:53.328 --> 00:32:55.570
reading information on the internet and
00:32:55.611 --> 00:32:57.512
gathering resources and even doing self
00:32:57.553 --> 00:32:59.074
assessments and learning more about their
00:32:59.114 --> 00:32:59.653
own patterns,
00:32:59.673 --> 00:33:00.815
the way their own brain is wired,
00:33:00.835 --> 00:33:01.695
their own neurotypes.
00:33:01.756 --> 00:33:03.037
I think all that stuff is really great
00:33:03.116 --> 00:33:03.557
and lovely.
00:33:04.417 --> 00:33:06.118
And I think if you're not getting it
00:33:06.159 --> 00:33:08.859
from a good source,
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:10.721
I wanna say like a verified source,
00:33:11.661 --> 00:33:12.701
but even that, right?
00:33:12.741 --> 00:33:15.442
Like I'm saying these words and I know
00:33:15.482 --> 00:33:16.844
they're English words and I know people
00:33:16.864 --> 00:33:17.523
know what they mean,
00:33:17.644 --> 00:33:19.765
but I'm using them in a way that,
00:33:20.164 --> 00:33:21.164
and like, this isn't,
00:33:21.244 --> 00:33:22.945
I'm trying to not be an elitist.
00:33:23.006 --> 00:33:24.567
I'm trying to build some context here.
00:33:24.826 --> 00:33:25.426
This isn't like,
00:33:25.467 --> 00:33:26.928
this is the only way you can use
00:33:27.008 --> 00:33:27.347
English.
00:33:29.368 --> 00:33:30.450
I'm falling out of my chair.
00:33:33.549 --> 00:33:36.932
When I say verified, I mean,
00:33:37.232 --> 00:33:38.413
generally speaking,
00:33:39.035 --> 00:33:42.257
like a source that has used scientific
00:33:42.336 --> 00:33:44.278
inquiry to get to that space.
00:33:44.459 --> 00:33:46.221
And then that inquiry has been peer
00:33:46.260 --> 00:33:48.542
reviewed by other science people, right?
00:33:48.583 --> 00:33:52.326
Like peer review as understood by going to
00:33:52.385 --> 00:33:54.146
one of the biggest research institutions
00:33:54.186 --> 00:33:54.708
in the nation.
00:33:55.228 --> 00:33:58.490
And also I think poorly of some of
00:33:58.550 --> 00:34:00.732
the processes in research.
00:34:02.230 --> 00:34:02.550
And again,
00:34:02.590 --> 00:34:04.354
I think that's when you love something,
00:34:04.394 --> 00:34:05.955
when you really enjoy something,
00:34:05.976 --> 00:34:07.196
when you care deeply about something,
00:34:07.237 --> 00:34:08.838
you are critical of it.
00:34:09.672 --> 00:34:09.913
right?
00:34:10.494 --> 00:34:13.315
I'm not rah-rah, go research.
00:34:14.536 --> 00:34:15.777
When research is done well,
00:34:15.817 --> 00:34:16.898
it's very important.
00:34:17.137 --> 00:34:18.559
And we need, therefore,
00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:19.898
to do research well.
00:34:19.940 --> 00:34:21.280
And when research isn't done well,
00:34:21.940 --> 00:34:23.262
we should be, you know,
00:34:24.181 --> 00:34:25.242
very critical of it.
00:34:25.262 --> 00:34:25.682
Because again,
00:34:25.722 --> 00:34:27.885
that makes the process worse for everyone.
00:34:28.445 --> 00:34:30.346
And the dolts in the world then say,
00:34:30.425 --> 00:34:33.068
well, science is questionable at best.
00:34:33.108 --> 00:34:35.969
And that's not
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:37.820
That's not what we want.
00:34:37.900 --> 00:34:38.221
So again,
00:34:38.240 --> 00:34:39.681
when I'm saying verified sources,
00:34:39.802 --> 00:34:40.842
even like language like that,
00:34:40.902 --> 00:34:42.643
the word verified means a very specific
00:34:42.684 --> 00:34:44.945
thing to me based on my lived experience,
00:34:44.985 --> 00:34:48.329
based on my area of quote unquote
00:34:48.509 --> 00:34:51.030
expertise and, um,
00:34:52.954 --> 00:34:55.297
I think the quote unquote experts need to
00:34:55.317 --> 00:34:56.818
do a better job of making things readily
00:34:56.838 --> 00:34:58.438
accessible to people because otherwise
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:00.681
TikTokers, YouTubers,
00:35:01.822 --> 00:35:04.384
the daily morning news show hosts who
00:35:04.603 --> 00:35:08.387
aren't trained in any of this stuff create
00:35:09.007 --> 00:35:10.869
spaces where the meaning starts to drift.
00:35:10.949 --> 00:35:11.150
Again,
00:35:11.210 --> 00:35:13.530
I think because people who study this
00:35:13.550 --> 00:35:14.972
stuff, because researchers,
00:35:15.032 --> 00:35:17.355
because people who are on the cutting edge
00:35:17.394 --> 00:35:19.576
of this stuff aren't always good at
00:35:20.217 --> 00:35:21.016
communicating
00:35:21.777 --> 00:35:23.760
to other people who aren't at that same
00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:28.603
level of experience or knowledge uh do a
00:35:28.663 --> 00:35:32.847
really poor job and it's it's something
00:35:32.887 --> 00:35:34.708
that other cultures historically did
00:35:34.748 --> 00:35:37.110
really well where um you think of like
00:35:37.849 --> 00:35:40.693
someone who was like um a wise person
00:35:40.753 --> 00:35:42.414
an elder some of the like
00:35:43.873 --> 00:35:45.655
don't know like aesop's fables some of
00:35:45.675 --> 00:35:47.456
these things that are timeless because
00:35:47.476 --> 00:35:51.961
they include uh messages and morals around
00:35:52.322 --> 00:35:55.925
the human experience those things are very
00:35:56.005 --> 00:35:58.307
approachable again they're not bogged down
00:35:58.367 --> 00:36:02.070
in jargon and and the jargon isn't elitist
00:36:02.552 --> 00:36:06.594
um it's it's approachable and
00:36:07.822 --> 00:36:10.204
readily it's readily accessible and it is
00:36:10.844 --> 00:36:12.746
a good summarization for again a large
00:36:12.786 --> 00:36:14.367
swath of the population a lot of people
00:36:14.429 --> 00:36:18.211
do that um and so we like the
00:36:18.231 --> 00:36:20.414
simplification we like the shorthand it's
00:36:20.434 --> 00:36:22.757
just again when we let the shorthand turn
00:36:22.817 --> 00:36:25.559
rigid or turn predictive or we are
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:28.202
dogmatic about it that it starts to fall
00:36:28.262 --> 00:36:30.443
apart and when it again when language is
00:36:30.483 --> 00:36:31.005
not used
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:34.420
with curiosity when it doesn't stimulate
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:35.219
more conversation,
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:36.920
when it doesn't create more understanding,
00:36:37.420 --> 00:36:38.661
there is a question of like,
00:36:38.721 --> 00:36:42.322
why are we using it that way then?
00:36:42.362 --> 00:36:42.782
And I'll tell you,
00:36:42.802 --> 00:36:44.842
most people are using it poorly and most
00:36:44.862 --> 00:36:45.862
people don't have a good reason to be
00:36:45.902 --> 00:36:46.563
using it poorly.
00:36:48.943 --> 00:36:49.744
Some of it's mindless,
00:36:49.764 --> 00:36:51.105
but a lot of it is malicious and
00:36:51.125 --> 00:36:53.985
then that's what is modeled, right?
00:36:54.125 --> 00:36:55.885
So even for like the mindlessness
00:36:56.465 --> 00:36:57.385
sometimes is malicious,
00:36:57.505 --> 00:36:59.007
not because the person using it
00:36:59.934 --> 00:37:02.335
using language that way is malicious,
00:37:02.376 --> 00:37:03.797
but because it's been modeled for them in
00:37:03.817 --> 00:37:05.918
a malicious way and they've just
00:37:05.978 --> 00:37:07.559
mindlessly picked it up and they parrot it
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:08.960
and that's not helpful.
00:37:10.061 --> 00:37:12.722
So with curiosity,
00:37:12.782 --> 00:37:14.402
with openness to learning,
00:37:14.443 --> 00:37:16.724
with that pursuit of creating mutual
00:37:16.784 --> 00:37:19.585
understanding, I like Therapy Speak.
00:37:20.961 --> 00:37:22.682
I use it in therapy,
00:37:22.782 --> 00:37:25.925
the context where it is probably works the
00:37:25.965 --> 00:37:28.128
best, but also like, again,
00:37:28.427 --> 00:37:29.288
to be wary of that.
00:37:29.369 --> 00:37:31.469
And this isn't to wag your finger in
00:37:31.489 --> 00:37:32.951
people's faces who use therapy speak,
00:37:32.971 --> 00:37:34.271
but this is again,
00:37:34.331 --> 00:37:36.594
to create understanding and to engage in
00:37:36.614 --> 00:37:37.134
curiosity.
00:37:37.153 --> 00:37:38.735
If somebody uses therapy speak,
00:37:38.755 --> 00:37:41.838
like that's a bright flashing light for
00:37:41.898 --> 00:37:44.559
more questions, clarifications,
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:46.762
more understanding is possible.
00:37:48.077 --> 00:37:49.619
That word is a shorthand for something.
00:37:49.659 --> 00:37:50.239
What does that mean?
00:37:50.300 --> 00:37:51.501
It's like a dropdown menu where you
00:37:51.561 --> 00:37:54.003
actually click on the dropdown and then
00:37:54.023 --> 00:37:55.184
you get a ton more information.
00:37:56.045 --> 00:37:57.766
That's cool.
00:37:57.827 --> 00:37:59.668
I like knowledge.
00:37:59.688 --> 00:38:01.329
People are fascinating and interesting.
00:38:01.469 --> 00:38:02.331
Learn more about them.
00:38:03.637 --> 00:38:04.838
So I think, again,
00:38:04.978 --> 00:38:07.018
instead of that being like, ooh, red flag,
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:07.880
you shouldn't use therapy,
00:38:07.900 --> 00:38:09.539
speak in the real world, how dare you,
00:38:10.481 --> 00:38:12.961
to be aware that that is an opportunity
00:38:13.041 --> 00:38:14.782
for more understanding,
00:38:14.822 --> 00:38:15.742
for more connection.
00:38:15.882 --> 00:38:18.784
There's a chance for curiosity there.
00:38:18.864 --> 00:38:24.686
And I think that's really lovely.
00:38:24.726 --> 00:38:25.106
Ta-da!
00:38:28.422 --> 00:38:28.643
So yeah,
00:38:29.043 --> 00:38:30.143
pay attention to how you're languaging.
00:38:30.324 --> 00:38:31.485
Pay attention to how people around you are
00:38:31.525 --> 00:38:31.905
languaging.
00:38:32.585 --> 00:38:34.748
Read French philosophers from the sixties.
00:38:35.148 --> 00:38:37.030
If you want to learn more about it,
00:38:37.050 --> 00:38:38.851
they're fun.
00:38:38.871 --> 00:38:40.972
Sometimes, sometimes they're not very fun.
00:38:43.755 --> 00:38:44.235
Let's see.
00:38:44.697 --> 00:38:45.836
What else do I have?
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:48.840
That seems like it.
00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:49.721
I am.
00:38:50.240 --> 00:38:50.782
What are we?
00:38:51.041 --> 00:38:52.983
July, July seventh.
00:38:53.608 --> 00:38:56.210
is I'm recording because I'm not recording
00:38:56.311 --> 00:38:57.072
anything ahead.
00:38:57.192 --> 00:38:58.333
I've been very lazy,
00:38:58.413 --> 00:39:00.293
but I've got my feelers out.
00:39:00.373 --> 00:39:02.996
The schedule is back on track.
00:39:03.076 --> 00:39:04.896
So we'll have some guests lined up soon,
00:39:04.936 --> 00:39:07.018
which is very cool and fun and exciting
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:10.762
in a crazy turn of events and how
00:39:10.842 --> 00:39:12.103
time normally works.
00:39:13.403 --> 00:39:15.925
Our retreat is coming up is about a
00:39:15.965 --> 00:39:17.246
little over a month away.
00:39:17.646 --> 00:39:20.469
If you are still interested in supporting
00:39:20.489 --> 00:39:20.548
us,
00:39:21.489 --> 00:39:23.650
There's a link up on my website,
00:39:23.670 --> 00:39:25.012
but also down in the show notes if
00:39:25.032 --> 00:39:26.632
you want to check that out.
00:39:26.913 --> 00:39:27.934
That's very cool.
00:39:27.994 --> 00:39:30.175
I'm doing a fun, I think it's fun,
00:39:31.376 --> 00:39:33.577
series over on YouTube right now on
00:39:33.737 --> 00:39:35.119
Divorced Dad Rock,
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:37.179
the soundtrack of emotional avoidance.
00:39:37.739 --> 00:39:39.722
If you listen to the podcast but don't
00:39:39.762 --> 00:39:42.403
follow me on YouTube, go check that out.
00:39:42.963 --> 00:39:44.105
I'm having a lot of fun with it.
00:39:44.184 --> 00:39:45.585
And it's not algorithm friendly.
00:39:45.666 --> 00:39:47.367
So if you directly go listen to it,
00:39:47.786 --> 00:39:49.648
that helps more people find me.
00:39:51.070 --> 00:39:51.451
All right, y'all.
00:39:51.471 --> 00:39:51.992
Take care of yourself.
00:39:52.012 --> 00:39:52.695
Take care of somebody else.
00:39:52.715 --> 00:39:54.780
We'll be back next week with another new
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:55.583
episode.
00:39:55.922 --> 00:39:56.465
Peace.