Your Therapist Needs Therapy 158 - The Business of Feeling Safe

This week Jeremy talks about one of his favorite topics: safety! Jeremy looks at what safety for our system actually looks and feels like, and how that is different from discomfort. Jeremy breaks down why working through being uncomfortable is part of healing, and how safety as a signal isn’t necessarily a sign to shut down. We also apply a critical historical lens on how therapy continues to rebrand social critiques into individual responsibilities, and how the profession as a whole needs to do better.

As always, Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube. You can donate directly to support religious trauma survivors here. We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well! None of my online work would be possible without my media maven Kenny, so check out their work as well at kenlingdesign.com

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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.

Transcript

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Hello,

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and welcome to another edition of Your

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Therapist Needs Therapy.

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I'm your host, Jeremy Schumacher,

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licensed marriage and family therapist.

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This week,

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we're going to talk about safety,

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which is a topic near and dear to

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my heart.

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When I first meet with a new client,

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we do informed consent so that they can

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set expectations and know what safety

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looks like and understand that safety is

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sort of

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I wanna say the be all end all

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of what my work is about and how

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sort of my clients and I think procurers,

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people who engage in the therapeutic

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process in general have shifted over time

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and why that's like a totally expected

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thing and how capitalism is ruining it.

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That's my core thesis today.

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We'll see how many points I remember to

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make.

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Yeah,

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the idea of safety is really important.

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I would say core to therapy when we

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talk about things like confidentiality.

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The way that I talk about confidentiality,

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again,

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in my informed consent spiel is that,

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There are laws that protect what we talk

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about in therapy so people can feel safe

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talking about whatever it is that they're

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dealing with.

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If you're watching on YouTube,

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you're seeing me struggle with something

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in my eye.

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Contacts bugging me.

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Not great air quality still here in the

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Midwest.

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It's a real bummer.

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Got the scratchy throat, itchy eyes.

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The, again,

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confidentiality is all about safety.

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And the thing that confidentiality breaks

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for,

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what people have to report and break

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confidentiality for, are safety concerns.

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Intention to harm yourself,

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intention to harm somebody else,

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report of child abuse or vulnerable adult

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abuse, right?

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Those things all have to do with safety.

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I literally say safety is my number one

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concern,

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making sure everybody I come into contact

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with is safe first and foremost.

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My informed consent's really like wrote at

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this point in my career.

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It's probably the fastest my clients ever

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hear me talk as I just sort of

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rattle it off.

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It's a thing I've done for about seventeen

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years that has changed and been updated

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over time, but not a ton.

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But the way that people are showing up

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in therapy and the way that people are

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talking about safety has definitely

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shifted.

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And I think for a lot of us

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therapists, initially,

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this was a good thing.

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I'm one of the people who does work

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with nervous systems and draws from a

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couple of different schools of thought

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around complex trauma and how it affects

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your nervous system.

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That's a lot of what my work is,

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especially around religious trauma.

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Understanding how coercive control works

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in religious settings and how that isn't

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safe is important.

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Again,

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like I talk about safety all the time

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still.

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But what's shifted is some of the branding

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around safety.

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And I think there's a historical through

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line in therapy and what's happening with,

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I think,

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modern sort of therapy talk.

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I did a whole episode about this a

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couple of weeks ago.

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If you want to get primed or expand

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on the idea of like how I think

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therapy talk's being misused,

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we're really going to focus on safety.

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And I think, again,

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that is part of therapy talk that's being

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misused.

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One of the things that I noted and

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continue to note for my clients a number

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of years ago was there's a difference

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between being unsafe and being

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uncomfortable.

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And sort of the two parameters I think

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around this concept is we can certainly

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shift into like the old boomer mentality

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of like this generation's too soft.

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And that's unhelpful and inaccurate.

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And we can also go to the other

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end of the extreme,

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which is where I see a lot of

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my clients, especially young people.

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And the way that people talk about on

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the internet is veering in the other

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direction where like anything that makes

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us feel uncomfortable is unsafe.

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And we've sort of translated understanding

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our nervous systems into being evidence of

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being unsafe.

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And that's not really what our nervous

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system is for.

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it's a weird, again,

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like sort of culturally,

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cultural hijacking of a scientific thing.

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And like,

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when I zoomed out and was like, ooh,

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that would be good to talk about,

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and zoomed out,

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what for me was like the hook for

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this episode was like,

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there's a historical context here.

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We're taking something that allowed us to

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critique and, you know,

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be critical of some of the systems that

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we experience on a day to day basis

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in our modern society.

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And we're shifting the focus back to the

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individual.

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And that's a real flaw of therapy.

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Going back to the father of psychotherapy,

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Sigmund Freud,

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somebody who I've talked about a bunch in

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a bunch of different places.

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Freud got a ton of stuff wrong.

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Freud was a drug addict who wanted to

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sleep with his stepmom.

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And that's pretty much what he did.

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And I'm pretty skeptical of people who are

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still doing psychoanalysis.

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Now,

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I'm probably oversimplifying my critique

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of psychoanalysis to say Freud got pretty

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much everything wrong.

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So why are we still using Freud?

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Modern psychoanalysis is better than that.

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But again,

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like I'm pretty critical of a lot of

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things that therapists are doing.

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Like

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those people who are pushing Enneagrams

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out and like, yo,

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that's just your updated modernized

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version of the astrology, right?

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And I'm like pausing there,

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cause I know I'm gonna offend a bunch

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of my neurodivergent queer tarot reading

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pagan folks, but like, yeah,

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none of that's good science.

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um so again a horseshoe theory right if

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you go too far down the left critique

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or you go too far down the right

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critique you sort of end at a place

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where uh yeah there's a bunch of biases

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and we know this because like our brains

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are built for shortcuts so of course

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there's biases it's why something like

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having a pretty consistent practice around

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what does what does

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our own sort of ontological methods.

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How do we know what we know?

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And critiquing ourselves in that process

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is good.

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Again,

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I'm not like blindly saying science is

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flawless.

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I'm saying that good science

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helps keep our brains from falling into

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common shortcuts that our brain take and

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then make mistakes.

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And again,

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one of the shortcuts I see way too

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often online and in real life now is

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anytime we're feeling uncomfortable,

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that is unsafe.

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part of the work trauma therapists have

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been doing for the past decade i would

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say longer for those people who really in

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the know but i would say therapy as

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a whole in the past decade uh is

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an awareness of our nervous system

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paying attention to what our nervous

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system is signaling to us because that's

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what it's doing, it's signaling, right?

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And sometimes when we're working with

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trauma,

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what happens when our system gets

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activated is we get flooded, right?

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And so when we talk about fight, flight,

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freeze, or fawn,

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sometimes our brain moves into one of

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those responses and our brain is only

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interested and only capable of that one

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response.

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right?

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That's, in essence,

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what triggered originally meant.

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Now,

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our nervous system sends us these signals

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all of the time, right?

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And in a way,

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that is either a misfire or is a

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tentative signal of,

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are we about to get in a fight?

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Do we need to do this?

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And again,

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what happens with a trauma response is

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sort of that

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signal cascades into taking action very

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quickly on an almost instinctual level.

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And again, I'm not dismissing that.

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I'm not taking away from that.

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I'm not saying that doesn't exist.

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Again,

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I'm not being a boomer about any of

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this that like we need to toughen up

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and rub some dirt on it, right?

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Like I think that mind frame is harmful,

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but also veering into anything that

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elicits a response from our nervous system

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is also harmful,

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I think is not accurate either.

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Our nervous system is constantly on alert

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for threats and sometimes it misfires on

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things that aren't threats.

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Sometimes it's just alerting us of a

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potential threat in the future.

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And that is what our nervous system is

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designed to do.

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And our way to work with our nervous

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system on that is to acknowledge the

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signal we're receiving from it and then

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try and manage and resource so that

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potential futuristic threat doesn't become

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an active threat.

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And I think we have to understand what

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safety looks like and what safety in our

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brain looks like,

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for our nervous system looks like,

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and our body feels like.

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Safety is super important.

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I'm not dismissing that.

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I started this whole episode talking about

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how much safety comes into the work that

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I do in the therapy room.

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And everything is pretty much primed to be

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about that from the first time I meet

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with people.

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But the safety,

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as our brain understands it,

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is lack of threat.

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Right?

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There isn't an active threat to our

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safety.

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And our safety there being like,

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there isn't a threat to our existence,

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to our being alive in this moment.

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And so if you're really ahead of where

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I'm going, you're already like, well,

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we're constantly under threat then.

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It's like, true,

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because we're living in a dystopia.

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Fact.

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Yeah.

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which is why our brain keeps misfiring

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about so many things and where I think

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the historical lens really has to come in.

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We are dealing with a lot of threats

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and our brain is used to those threats.

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Arguably the most unsafe thing most of us

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as people who live in America are doing

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on a daily basis is driving.

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It's not safe.

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It's safe in mass number.

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But again,

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the activity that we do most often that

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is most unsafe is probably driving.

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Moving in a metal box at sixty plus

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miles an hour is lethal.

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Now,

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have there been modern advances in cars

00:10:51.687 --> 00:10:54.830
and are the amount of lethalities from car

00:10:54.870 --> 00:10:56.150
crashes going down?

00:10:56.711 --> 00:10:57.030
Yes.

00:10:57.731 --> 00:10:59.712
Is every car out on the road built

00:10:59.753 --> 00:11:00.133
that way?

00:11:00.754 --> 00:11:02.114
No, because again,

00:11:02.134 --> 00:11:04.176
we live in capitalist dystopia.

00:11:04.355 --> 00:11:10.000
So safety measures are not base models and

00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:11.860
car companies are not held to any sort

00:11:11.900 --> 00:11:13.042
of standard that would say,

00:11:13.542 --> 00:11:15.123
if you could make this safer,

00:11:15.163 --> 00:11:15.984
you need to.

00:11:18.004 --> 00:11:18.423
So again,

00:11:18.745 --> 00:11:21.586
it's very dystopian even that I can say

00:11:21.886 --> 00:11:23.788
the data on this is getting better because

00:11:23.827 --> 00:11:24.849
cars are getting safer.

00:11:24.928 --> 00:11:25.489
And also,

00:11:26.549 --> 00:11:28.191
we're still not in a society that promotes

00:11:28.331 --> 00:11:29.052
safety.

00:11:29.471 --> 00:11:31.352
We're in a society that promotes profit.

00:11:31.572 --> 00:11:33.434
And that isn't great.

00:11:35.355 --> 00:11:36.636
But most of us get in our car

00:11:36.677 --> 00:11:40.458
and do not elicit a response to that

00:11:40.499 --> 00:11:42.280
threat of, gosh,

00:11:43.234 --> 00:11:46.438
our skin suit that protects our sensitive

00:11:46.538 --> 00:11:48.381
organs is traveling at sixty or seventy

00:11:48.422 --> 00:11:48.961
miles an hour.

00:11:49.043 --> 00:11:51.225
That might not be safe, right?

00:11:51.265 --> 00:11:51.785
By and large,

00:11:51.806 --> 00:11:54.831
we've just learned to either assume or

00:11:54.890 --> 00:11:56.894
trust our own driving ability or trust

00:11:56.953 --> 00:11:58.797
that the box that we're in is safe

00:11:58.856 --> 00:11:59.297
enough

00:12:00.278 --> 00:12:01.399
so that we're cool with it.

00:12:02.379 --> 00:12:02.659
And again,

00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:04.201
I still get the occasional person who gets

00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:06.361
really nervous flying and has a specific

00:12:06.381 --> 00:12:07.201
phobia around that.

00:12:07.241 --> 00:12:08.182
And it's one of those things where it's

00:12:08.202 --> 00:12:11.803
like, right, the percentages of safety,

00:12:11.945 --> 00:12:13.784
even under the modern regime,

00:12:13.804 --> 00:12:15.525
which is really cutting back on safety

00:12:15.985 --> 00:12:16.606
protocols.

00:12:16.687 --> 00:12:16.966
And like,

00:12:17.006 --> 00:12:18.347
I don't know if y'all remember like the

00:12:18.388 --> 00:12:20.427
first week of twenty twenty five when

00:12:20.489 --> 00:12:21.729
Trump took over office,

00:12:21.749 --> 00:12:23.529
there was like a plane crash every single

00:12:23.570 --> 00:12:25.931
day as he just gutted like the FAA.

00:12:28.091 --> 00:12:29.793
such simpler times we lived in.

00:12:31.775 --> 00:12:37.020
That has mellowed out and also we're still

00:12:37.181 --> 00:12:39.121
super underserved there.

00:12:39.243 --> 00:12:41.163
And flying is still way safer than driving

00:12:41.365 --> 00:12:42.566
is the point I'm building to here.

00:12:44.427 --> 00:12:46.789
So again, our brain misfires on this

00:12:47.809 --> 00:12:49.030
That's like just a really easy go-to

00:12:49.051 --> 00:12:50.772
example on me where like our brain's

00:12:50.812 --> 00:12:53.553
response to it isn't accurate to what the

00:12:53.594 --> 00:12:54.394
data tells us.

00:12:55.174 --> 00:12:57.716
And yet most of us are not freaking

00:12:57.797 --> 00:12:58.477
out about it.

00:12:59.018 --> 00:13:00.298
And I think that's a really good example,

00:13:00.379 --> 00:13:01.019
honestly,

00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:03.260
because what our brain will freak out

00:13:03.301 --> 00:13:04.923
about it is when we're in a crash,

00:13:05.562 --> 00:13:07.703
we will often have that trauma response

00:13:07.724 --> 00:13:09.205
where driving becomes more risky,

00:13:09.245 --> 00:13:10.326
we're hypervigilant,

00:13:10.666 --> 00:13:12.506
we don't feel good about driving,

00:13:12.547 --> 00:13:15.227
we resist driving, we avoid it, right?

00:13:15.849 --> 00:13:16.369
And so again,

00:13:16.408 --> 00:13:17.970
like that's a trauma response.

00:13:18.883 --> 00:13:20.484
after we've been in an accident that we

00:13:20.504 --> 00:13:21.024
have to get there.

00:13:21.345 --> 00:13:22.745
And the goal isn't then that like in

00:13:22.806 --> 00:13:24.606
order to be quote unquote safe,

00:13:24.647 --> 00:13:25.768
we never drive again.

00:13:26.467 --> 00:13:28.990
The goal is to listen to that response

00:13:29.090 --> 00:13:31.051
and see where it sort of fits in.

00:13:31.171 --> 00:13:33.552
We can soothe our nervous system for that

00:13:33.613 --> 00:13:34.874
big of a response.

00:13:35.673 --> 00:13:37.215
But I think what keeps happening with

00:13:37.335 --> 00:13:38.855
modern therapy talk and the way that

00:13:38.875 --> 00:13:40.177
people are sort of interacting with this

00:13:40.216 --> 00:13:41.697
concept of safety is anything that makes

00:13:41.717 --> 00:13:43.278
us feel uncomfortable is treated as that

00:13:43.298 --> 00:13:44.200
trauma response.

00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:46.441
And our nervous system being activated

00:13:46.601 --> 00:13:48.682
isn't necessarily a trauma response.

00:13:49.464 --> 00:13:50.865
It doesn't need to be.

00:13:51.405 --> 00:13:53.489
We have this idea now that's branding

00:13:53.528 --> 00:13:55.711
around therapy of regulated nervous

00:13:55.751 --> 00:13:56.152
system.

00:13:56.874 --> 00:13:59.214
And I think too many people think that

00:13:59.234 --> 00:14:00.274
means we're calm,

00:14:00.315 --> 00:14:02.235
cool and collected at all times.

00:14:02.274 --> 00:14:04.075
And that isn't what our nervous system is

00:14:04.095 --> 00:14:04.535
designed to do.

00:14:04.956 --> 00:14:06.676
Our nervous system is designed to ramp up.

00:14:07.855 --> 00:14:10.736
I'm sort of showing an upward curve as

00:14:10.777 --> 00:14:12.537
if we were on a line chart and

00:14:12.937 --> 00:14:14.376
that curve goes up and then it comes

00:14:14.417 --> 00:14:14.998
back down.

00:14:15.038 --> 00:14:16.738
At some point we reach sort of a

00:14:16.837 --> 00:14:19.217
critical threat assessment and then we

00:14:19.258 --> 00:14:20.219
wanna come back down.

00:14:20.278 --> 00:14:21.938
We wanna soothe, we wanna comfort.

00:14:23.076 --> 00:14:25.177
And that can take seconds or that could

00:14:25.219 --> 00:14:25.999
take hours,

00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.282
depending on what the threat is.

00:14:28.802 --> 00:14:30.203
But the goal is not that we never

00:14:30.224 --> 00:14:31.404
have any threats.

00:14:31.884 --> 00:14:33.067
That's comfort.

00:14:33.106 --> 00:14:34.207
That's not safety.

00:14:36.471 --> 00:14:39.331
Safety is absence of threat.

00:14:39.851 --> 00:14:42.013
Comfort is never being challenged,

00:14:42.533 --> 00:14:44.974
never having to even think about a threat

00:14:45.053 --> 00:14:46.715
or perceive a threat ever again.

00:14:46.815 --> 00:14:48.535
And like, that's unrealistic.

00:14:49.875 --> 00:14:51.056
That's just not the world we live in.

00:14:51.157 --> 00:14:52.397
And that's not what our nervous system is

00:14:52.437 --> 00:14:52.677
for.

00:14:53.057 --> 00:14:54.618
Our nervous system is designed to assess

00:14:54.697 --> 00:14:55.018
threats.

00:14:55.038 --> 00:14:57.538
The goal isn't to never have threats.

00:14:58.119 --> 00:14:59.519
The goal is that, oh no,

00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:00.620
is that gonna be a problem?

00:15:00.740 --> 00:15:03.100
Nah, we're good, right?

00:15:03.201 --> 00:15:03.461
Oh no,

00:15:03.520 --> 00:15:05.302
I have to send this work email and

00:15:05.341 --> 00:15:05.662
I sent it.

00:15:07.164 --> 00:15:07.325
Oh no,

00:15:07.365 --> 00:15:08.905
I've set a boundary with my partner and

00:15:08.946 --> 00:15:11.086
they were super respectful of it, right?

00:15:11.125 --> 00:15:12.787
Like the goal is that when we ramp

00:15:12.927 --> 00:15:14.628
up, we know how to ramp back down.

00:15:14.668 --> 00:15:16.508
We're both resourced well enough to do

00:15:16.548 --> 00:15:18.208
that and have the skills and tools we

00:15:18.229 --> 00:15:19.009
need to be able to do it.

00:15:19.509 --> 00:15:20.750
And it goes well, right?

00:15:21.269 --> 00:15:23.211
That's where the discomfort comes is that

00:15:23.230 --> 00:15:24.630
acknowledgement that we're not always in

00:15:24.691 --> 00:15:25.912
control of it the way we would like

00:15:26.072 --> 00:15:27.192
to be.

00:15:27.972 --> 00:15:30.352
Setting a boundary is uncomfortable and it

00:15:30.413 --> 00:15:31.214
is safe.

00:15:32.408 --> 00:15:34.009
Has the potential to be unsafe if that

00:15:34.048 --> 00:15:36.289
other person ignores the boundary, right?

00:15:36.330 --> 00:15:38.630
But it isn't inherently unsafe.

00:15:39.811 --> 00:15:42.892
Leaving a bad job, not inherently unsafe.

00:15:43.653 --> 00:15:44.832
Leaving a bad relationship,

00:15:44.932 --> 00:15:47.094
not inherently unsafe, right?

00:15:47.114 --> 00:15:48.514
These are all things that are going to,

00:15:48.573 --> 00:15:49.335
going to, going to.

00:15:49.394 --> 00:15:51.075
Of course, it makes sense.

00:15:51.115 --> 00:15:52.956
This is the typical expected outcome.

00:15:52.995 --> 00:15:55.517
It feels uncomfortable and it's safe,

00:15:55.537 --> 00:15:57.677
right?

00:15:57.717 --> 00:15:58.977
Having a disagreement with our partner

00:15:59.219 --> 00:15:59.379
is...

00:16:00.797 --> 00:16:05.139
safe until it's not right um and again

00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:08.081
when there's raising voices throwing

00:16:08.121 --> 00:16:10.884
things putting hands on each other um as

00:16:10.903 --> 00:16:12.684
it becomes physical right like the threat

00:16:12.725 --> 00:16:14.285
assessment needs to go up because that is

00:16:14.407 --> 00:16:18.830
a threat to our safety um but again

00:16:18.889 --> 00:16:20.390
just simply being in disagreement

00:16:20.951 --> 00:16:23.852
conversing while having a disagreement

00:16:24.033 --> 00:16:27.436
even if it's heated while still being safe

00:16:28.355 --> 00:16:28.556
right

00:16:29.673 --> 00:16:30.714
is just uncomfortable.

00:16:31.995 --> 00:16:34.375
The difference between being uncomfortable

00:16:34.395 --> 00:16:36.798
and being unsafe is significant.

00:16:37.619 --> 00:16:37.879
And again,

00:16:37.899 --> 00:16:39.059
too many people are conflating that

00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:40.421
anytime they're uncomfortable,

00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:41.520
they're unsafe.

00:16:42.081 --> 00:16:42.522
And again,

00:16:42.542 --> 00:16:43.842
that becomes a way to shut down

00:16:43.883 --> 00:16:44.543
conversation.

00:16:44.764 --> 00:16:47.004
There's no ongoing learning.

00:16:47.024 --> 00:16:48.245
There's no communication.

00:16:49.047 --> 00:16:50.347
And I think that's a problem.

00:16:50.368 --> 00:16:52.009
But I also think, again,

00:16:52.109 --> 00:16:54.390
zooming out and looking at the culture

00:16:54.431 --> 00:16:54.971
surrounding this,

00:16:55.091 --> 00:16:57.273
I think that's being sold back to us.

00:16:59.046 --> 00:17:02.908
Freud was deeply problematic and bad at

00:17:02.970 --> 00:17:05.932
his job.

00:17:06.113 --> 00:17:13.680
But Freud, as a person in his time,

00:17:13.700 --> 00:17:14.401
I don't even want to call him a

00:17:14.421 --> 00:17:15.922
scientist because he was not doing

00:17:15.961 --> 00:17:16.442
science,

00:17:16.462 --> 00:17:20.987
as a societally understood expert of his

00:17:21.067 --> 00:17:21.487
time,

00:17:22.028 --> 00:17:23.189
did what too many

00:17:24.497 --> 00:17:26.959
cis white dudes have done in positions of

00:17:26.999 --> 00:17:29.701
power and said this is a problem about

00:17:29.781 --> 00:17:34.086
you the individual not the context

00:17:34.145 --> 00:17:38.769
surrounding you and therapy has battled

00:17:38.809 --> 00:17:40.692
this for a while again we had we

00:17:40.711 --> 00:17:43.114
had freud for a long time and and

00:17:43.193 --> 00:17:46.557
the people who studied under freud um and

00:17:46.596 --> 00:17:47.778
then we had you know

00:17:49.872 --> 00:17:54.615
Carl Rogers and Carl Whitaker and I want

00:17:54.635 --> 00:17:55.336
to say Fritz.

00:17:55.436 --> 00:17:56.376
Was it Fritz Perls?

00:17:56.998 --> 00:17:57.337
Perls.

00:18:00.500 --> 00:18:01.701
It's been a long time since I was

00:18:01.721 --> 00:18:02.281
in grad school.

00:18:04.364 --> 00:18:06.246
Some of those folks came through with the

00:18:06.266 --> 00:18:08.446
humanistic movement and that was better,

00:18:08.527 --> 00:18:08.807
right?

00:18:08.867 --> 00:18:10.308
Like that was a lot better than what

00:18:10.348 --> 00:18:12.651
we got from psychoanalysis and Freud and

00:18:12.691 --> 00:18:13.892
his various offshoots.

00:18:15.292 --> 00:18:18.756
And it was still about the person.

00:18:19.962 --> 00:18:22.185
How do you deal with these problems?

00:18:22.226 --> 00:18:24.307
How can we help you fix your own

00:18:24.347 --> 00:18:24.909
problems?

00:18:25.769 --> 00:18:30.855
Um, and I think I'm biased, right?

00:18:31.115 --> 00:18:32.436
Uh, I think in the sixties,

00:18:32.497 --> 00:18:34.078
the French philosophers, you know,

00:18:34.138 --> 00:18:35.861
Foucault, Derrida, um,

00:18:39.318 --> 00:18:40.700
a bunch of people in there in the

00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.300
postmodern movement and simultaneously the

00:18:43.340 --> 00:18:44.741
cybernetics movement that was studying

00:18:44.842 --> 00:18:47.143
ecosystems which would lead to modern

00:18:47.182 --> 00:18:49.384
technology but also led to modern family

00:18:49.423 --> 00:18:52.585
therapy um both sort of coalesced around

00:18:52.605 --> 00:18:54.685
the idea of like oh it's a system

00:18:55.105 --> 00:18:58.928
right and then fuko still writing like

00:18:58.948 --> 00:19:02.009
discipline and punishment and um the

00:19:02.048 --> 00:19:03.869
archaeology of knowledge and and some of

00:19:03.890 --> 00:19:06.131
this stuff was really great and we had

00:19:06.230 --> 00:19:07.652
other thinkers um

00:19:08.988 --> 00:19:11.269
that were doing really good work around

00:19:11.328 --> 00:19:11.808
this time.

00:19:11.848 --> 00:19:14.509
And so we had things like Fanon and

00:19:14.549 --> 00:19:17.671
some of his critiques of the systems that

00:19:17.691 --> 00:19:18.971
were making people unhealthy.

00:19:19.510 --> 00:19:21.092
But I would never say like that stuff

00:19:21.112 --> 00:19:22.092
was super mainstream.

00:19:23.153 --> 00:19:28.394
Even postmodern therapies are not the norm

00:19:28.874 --> 00:19:29.233
still.

00:19:31.375 --> 00:19:33.796
While I think postmodernism as a movement,

00:19:34.864 --> 00:19:35.484
was a big deal.

00:19:35.505 --> 00:19:35.904
Like again,

00:19:35.924 --> 00:19:37.405
Jordan Peterson made a lot of his career

00:19:37.526 --> 00:19:40.468
arguing against postmodern thinking while

00:19:40.528 --> 00:19:42.569
like using postmodern practices himself

00:19:42.730 --> 00:19:43.891
all of the time.

00:19:44.131 --> 00:19:46.133
It's an infuriating individual to listen

00:19:46.153 --> 00:19:46.292
to.

00:19:49.394 --> 00:19:52.738
But then we had CBT was the big

00:19:52.778 --> 00:19:54.278
cat's meow in sort of the eighties.

00:19:54.318 --> 00:19:55.440
And so you had the humanist movement in

00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:58.182
the fifties and then in therapy terms,

00:19:58.261 --> 00:19:58.442
right?

00:19:59.021 --> 00:20:00.423
And then you add the

00:20:02.781 --> 00:20:04.742
CBT really became the cat's meow and like

00:20:04.903 --> 00:20:07.284
is still top dog, right?

00:20:07.344 --> 00:20:09.125
It's what insurance companies like to see.

00:20:09.204 --> 00:20:11.385
It's what people use.

00:20:11.445 --> 00:20:13.727
And there are tools and techniques in CBT

00:20:13.747 --> 00:20:15.327
that are really helpful and work really

00:20:15.347 --> 00:20:15.587
well.

00:20:15.708 --> 00:20:17.608
And I think as just a school of

00:20:17.648 --> 00:20:17.970
thought,

00:20:18.049 --> 00:20:22.112
it's really stunted and like it ought to

00:20:22.172 --> 00:20:22.372
be

00:20:25.123 --> 00:20:28.345
a toolbox that every therapist has and not

00:20:28.404 --> 00:20:29.365
its own school of thought.

00:20:31.708 --> 00:20:32.708
My opinion there.

00:20:34.470 --> 00:20:35.951
Because there's really good stuff in there

00:20:36.111 --> 00:20:38.853
and it's missing a sort of linking ethos

00:20:38.913 --> 00:20:40.753
into how people move through the world and

00:20:40.794 --> 00:20:41.634
their environment.

00:20:43.375 --> 00:20:43.655
And again,

00:20:43.695 --> 00:20:45.458
most of this stuff has been updated.

00:20:45.478 --> 00:20:47.638
Nobody's practicing CBT as it existed in

00:20:47.659 --> 00:20:48.240
the eighties.

00:20:49.628 --> 00:20:49.969
So again,

00:20:50.048 --> 00:20:52.192
there are these cultural movements,

00:20:52.211 --> 00:20:54.434
there are these awarenesses that raise not

00:20:54.454 --> 00:20:55.496
just to pop culture,

00:20:55.836 --> 00:20:57.357
to non-professional levels,

00:20:59.661 --> 00:20:59.840
but

00:21:01.029 --> 00:21:02.349
enter the cultural zeitgeist,

00:21:02.450 --> 00:21:05.651
enter sort of our day-to-day lingo.

00:21:06.790 --> 00:21:09.551
And so somatic work and nervous system

00:21:09.592 --> 00:21:12.853
work and polyvagal theory and trauma have

00:21:12.952 --> 00:21:14.673
all sort of entered into that space where

00:21:14.732 --> 00:21:17.074
even if somebody is a hardcore CBT

00:21:17.094 --> 00:21:17.834
practitioner,

00:21:17.894 --> 00:21:22.394
they're aware of somatic influences.

00:21:22.434 --> 00:21:24.316
They're aware of what the nervous system

00:21:24.375 --> 00:21:26.596
is doing in a way that in the

00:21:26.615 --> 00:21:26.915
eighties,

00:21:26.935 --> 00:21:28.596
that was never ever gonna get talked

00:21:28.616 --> 00:21:28.817
about.

00:21:31.226 --> 00:21:33.367
But I do think it's the same sort

00:21:33.407 --> 00:21:33.988
of thing, right?

00:21:34.008 --> 00:21:35.769
Where CBT became your thoughts,

00:21:35.829 --> 00:21:37.911
cognitive behavioral therapy.

00:21:38.231 --> 00:21:38.971
Control your thoughts,

00:21:38.991 --> 00:21:40.212
you control your behaviors,

00:21:40.252 --> 00:21:42.035
which is patently false.

00:21:42.075 --> 00:21:43.496
We do not control our thoughts.

00:21:43.516 --> 00:21:45.517
So that's always been a bad thing.

00:21:45.537 --> 00:21:47.058
That's why I like DBT a lot better

00:21:47.078 --> 00:21:47.719
than CBT.

00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:50.260
And the way that I use DBT is

00:21:50.381 --> 00:21:52.583
also similarly very much a toolbox,

00:21:52.962 --> 00:21:54.503
while I do feel DBT has a much

00:21:54.544 --> 00:21:54.744
better

00:21:55.807 --> 00:22:00.551
ethos surrounding sort of how and why the

00:22:00.571 --> 00:22:02.673
changes we're making will work.

00:22:03.134 --> 00:22:06.256
It has a much better worldview than CBT.

00:22:06.336 --> 00:22:09.157
It still is somewhat limited in an

00:22:09.258 --> 00:22:10.699
individualistic lens.

00:22:10.719 --> 00:22:11.019
And again,

00:22:11.078 --> 00:22:12.740
I think if we use that individualistic

00:22:13.221 --> 00:22:15.102
lens as here are tools and techniques that

00:22:15.142 --> 00:22:16.403
might help you, the person,

00:22:16.983 --> 00:22:18.265
navigate your environment and your

00:22:18.305 --> 00:22:20.046
surroundings, that's great.

00:22:20.645 --> 00:22:20.987
But again,

00:22:21.047 --> 00:22:22.488
too many therapists and too many

00:22:24.510 --> 00:22:26.712
amateur psychologists, people online,

00:22:26.752 --> 00:22:29.095
content creators are also missing the

00:22:29.134 --> 00:22:32.057
point that like anything that's packaging

00:22:32.198 --> 00:22:35.020
up what is happening in our own bodies

00:22:35.101 --> 00:22:38.163
and selling it back to us as ours

00:22:38.183 --> 00:22:41.125
to take care of is missing the point.

00:22:41.185 --> 00:22:42.508
Like that's always been sort of the

00:22:42.528 --> 00:22:45.269
capitalistic thread through psychotherapy

00:22:45.911 --> 00:22:47.632
of how do we package this and sell

00:22:47.672 --> 00:22:48.973
it back to people?

00:22:50.510 --> 00:22:52.932
and keep them from critiquing the system,

00:22:53.071 --> 00:22:56.792
keep them from organizing and creating an

00:22:56.853 --> 00:22:59.074
environment in which they can be healthy.

00:22:59.513 --> 00:23:01.213
How are we treating symptoms and not the

00:23:01.233 --> 00:23:02.074
root causes?

00:23:02.114 --> 00:23:03.714
And again, unfortunately,

00:23:03.855 --> 00:23:06.395
I think this was another attempt of

00:23:06.516 --> 00:23:08.675
psychology, of human beings,

00:23:08.776 --> 00:23:11.997
of healers of all types to course correct

00:23:12.037 --> 00:23:13.698
the individualistic lens

00:23:14.317 --> 00:23:16.259
that therapy and other forms of healing

00:23:16.278 --> 00:23:17.119
we're really taking.

00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:19.921
And now we're back on regulate your

00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:22.423
nervous system becomes individual work.

00:23:23.403 --> 00:23:26.365
And anything that makes us feel

00:23:26.404 --> 00:23:27.986
uncomfortable is therefore unsafe and we

00:23:28.026 --> 00:23:29.046
get to shut it down.

00:23:29.467 --> 00:23:31.548
Again, keeps the work from happening.

00:23:32.421 --> 00:23:35.063
If you at all engage with organizing or

00:23:35.123 --> 00:23:37.204
any sort of progressive politics,

00:23:37.224 --> 00:23:39.547
you know it's messy and that building a

00:23:39.586 --> 00:23:41.669
coalition is really important.

00:23:41.729 --> 00:23:43.269
That's how change happens.

00:23:44.010 --> 00:23:48.015
And that's not by siloing off, right?

00:23:48.714 --> 00:23:51.718
siloing off plays into capitalism plays

00:23:51.857 --> 00:23:54.119
into fascism's playbook because it's

00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.303
easier to control people and take over uh

00:23:58.463 --> 00:24:00.806
abuse power against people who are siloed

00:24:00.965 --> 00:24:02.366
off it's hard to do that for people

00:24:02.386 --> 00:24:05.189
who are in community and so these ideas

00:24:05.229 --> 00:24:06.309
that are

00:24:07.111 --> 00:24:10.012
about how do you sort of run a

00:24:10.073 --> 00:24:11.874
marathon instead of a sprint?

00:24:11.953 --> 00:24:13.714
How do you resource yourself successfully?

00:24:13.755 --> 00:24:15.756
How do you take the signals from your

00:24:15.776 --> 00:24:16.336
nervous system?

00:24:16.375 --> 00:24:21.219
How do you manage and resource yourself so

00:24:21.239 --> 00:24:23.140
that your nervous system as a tool,

00:24:23.259 --> 00:24:26.681
as part of your overall body work in

00:24:26.721 --> 00:24:28.561
conjunction in the system that you're

00:24:28.622 --> 00:24:30.583
existing in to

00:24:31.876 --> 00:24:34.258
not be productive, right?

00:24:34.278 --> 00:24:35.159
That's what capitalism wants,

00:24:35.179 --> 00:24:39.240
but to be functional enough to invest in

00:24:39.300 --> 00:24:41.803
your ecosystem.

00:24:41.962 --> 00:24:42.343
And again,

00:24:42.383 --> 00:24:44.723
like invest sounds an awful lot like be

00:24:44.784 --> 00:24:45.404
productive.

00:24:45.424 --> 00:24:48.026
I was going to say be functional,

00:24:48.086 --> 00:24:48.426
but again,

00:24:48.446 --> 00:24:49.846
like I don't love some of that ableist

00:24:49.926 --> 00:24:52.348
language and it's the limiting language

00:24:52.409 --> 00:24:54.569
that we have where again,

00:24:54.670 --> 00:24:58.491
like being functional isn't in pursuit of

00:24:58.592 --> 00:24:59.873
capitalistic ends.

00:25:00.653 --> 00:25:00.894
It's

00:25:02.813 --> 00:25:04.513
Can you plant your garden?

00:25:06.055 --> 00:25:07.736
Like literally plant a garden or

00:25:07.796 --> 00:25:10.998
metaphorically like take care of your

00:25:11.097 --> 00:25:11.638
needs?

00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:15.661
Can you exist in an environment where

00:25:15.740 --> 00:25:18.103
other people are helping to meet your

00:25:18.163 --> 00:25:18.522
needs?

00:25:18.563 --> 00:25:18.803
Again,

00:25:18.844 --> 00:25:22.185
can we have an ecosystem that provides

00:25:22.645 --> 00:25:24.968
actual literal safety

00:25:26.538 --> 00:25:28.500
And can we navigate the ups and downs,

00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:29.220
the bumps,

00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:32.061
the ebb and flow that go along with

00:25:32.663 --> 00:25:34.644
potential threats to safety,

00:25:34.723 --> 00:25:36.566
sometimes even active threats to safety?

00:25:36.685 --> 00:25:38.287
And can we move through that in a

00:25:38.326 --> 00:25:41.449
way that isn't debilitating from, again,

00:25:41.509 --> 00:25:43.230
maintaining that ecosystem that provides

00:25:43.269 --> 00:25:43.971
safety for us?

00:25:44.451 --> 00:25:45.451
And again, I think people,

00:25:46.452 --> 00:25:47.753
what's been sold back to us,

00:25:47.814 --> 00:25:48.473
unfortunately,

00:25:48.493 --> 00:25:49.994
is comfort instead of safety.

00:25:50.174 --> 00:25:52.957
And so when we have things that are

00:25:53.117 --> 00:25:54.858
uncomfortable for us,

00:25:56.278 --> 00:25:59.000
want to withdraw from that um and and

00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:00.961
we've started using the language of safety

00:26:01.161 --> 00:26:04.143
of nervous system of trauma responses as a

00:26:04.202 --> 00:26:07.065
way to not be uncomfortable and again i

00:26:07.105 --> 00:26:09.006
think that's just really limiting for

00:26:09.046 --> 00:26:11.127
people um one from an organizing

00:26:11.147 --> 00:26:13.608
perspective but but as a somebody who's

00:26:13.689 --> 00:26:16.371
trained in systems theory in family

00:26:16.411 --> 00:26:20.153
therapy couples work relational work like

00:26:20.867 --> 00:26:22.288
Yeah, you're gonna be uncomfortable.

00:26:22.828 --> 00:26:25.190
Everybody's pretty comfortable with

00:26:25.250 --> 00:26:25.609
language.

00:26:26.269 --> 00:26:27.770
English just doesn't have enough words.

00:26:28.790 --> 00:26:33.373
Everybody's very used to and the cliche

00:26:33.432 --> 00:26:35.173
carries a lot of weight because it's

00:26:35.292 --> 00:26:37.614
accurate that relationships is a lot of

00:26:37.653 --> 00:26:38.174
work, right?

00:26:38.194 --> 00:26:39.394
We talk about like marriage is a lot

00:26:39.414 --> 00:26:39.815
of work.

00:26:39.974 --> 00:26:41.036
People say that all the time, right?

00:26:43.483 --> 00:26:46.464
Because there's uncomfortable things to

00:26:46.565 --> 00:26:47.204
work through.

00:26:47.224 --> 00:26:48.204
There's disagreement.

00:26:48.265 --> 00:26:50.486
It's not that old school sort of pie

00:26:50.506 --> 00:26:51.006
in the sky,

00:26:51.046 --> 00:26:52.747
head in the clouds mentality of like your

00:26:52.826 --> 00:26:54.826
one true soulmate will be perfect and no

00:26:54.886 --> 00:26:56.488
work, right?

00:26:56.788 --> 00:26:59.288
But it's secure attachment,

00:26:59.588 --> 00:27:00.888
rupture and repair, right?

00:27:00.909 --> 00:27:01.848
That we can put our foot in our

00:27:01.868 --> 00:27:05.470
mouth and course correct to err is human.

00:27:05.490 --> 00:27:07.510
Making mistakes is a typical and expected

00:27:07.631 --> 00:27:08.070
outcome.

00:27:09.727 --> 00:27:11.268
Improving upon those mistakes,

00:27:11.348 --> 00:27:13.410
learning from the errors we make to make

00:27:13.430 --> 00:27:15.432
them less or to get rid of them

00:27:15.491 --> 00:27:18.115
completely is the goal not to never have

00:27:18.154 --> 00:27:18.595
mistakes.

00:27:19.256 --> 00:27:19.796
And so again,

00:27:19.976 --> 00:27:23.940
if everything that is uncomfortable makes

00:27:23.980 --> 00:27:25.121
us feel unsafe, we're A,

00:27:25.161 --> 00:27:26.521
not doing the work and B,

00:27:27.202 --> 00:27:29.965
not building secure attachment.

00:27:30.996 --> 00:27:31.996
Right?

00:27:32.016 --> 00:27:33.416
Your best friend that you've been friends

00:27:33.457 --> 00:27:35.356
with since whenever, grade school,

00:27:35.376 --> 00:27:36.277
high school, whatever.

00:27:36.696 --> 00:27:38.057
Hopefully you've had some bumps and

00:27:38.097 --> 00:27:40.958
bruises that you've worked through in your

00:27:40.978 --> 00:27:43.278
relationship where they said something

00:27:43.298 --> 00:27:45.358
that hurt your feelings and you lost sleep

00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:47.779
over it and you didn't text them back

00:27:47.819 --> 00:27:48.759
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:50.280
And then you talked about it and you

00:27:50.340 --> 00:27:52.161
understood and they apologized and we all

00:27:52.181 --> 00:27:52.760
moved on.

00:27:54.281 --> 00:27:56.801
Uncomfortable work and really important.

00:27:57.402 --> 00:27:59.502
At no point is that unsafe, right?

00:28:00.936 --> 00:28:02.557
We take the threat of losing a

00:28:02.617 --> 00:28:04.880
relationship as being unsafe,

00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:07.903
but unless it comes back around to trigger

00:28:08.604 --> 00:28:10.786
some sort of response that is unsafe,

00:28:10.806 --> 00:28:12.267
that person is our caretaker.

00:28:12.326 --> 00:28:14.128
And if they leave us,

00:28:14.229 --> 00:28:16.330
then we don't have a caretaker.

00:28:17.592 --> 00:28:19.814
That person is likely to...

00:28:22.085 --> 00:28:24.186
take custody of our kids or is going

00:28:24.227 --> 00:28:26.648
to burn all our clothes on the front

00:28:26.669 --> 00:28:30.752
yard or keeps changing the locks even

00:28:30.772 --> 00:28:32.474
though they don't have custody or

00:28:32.515 --> 00:28:34.076
placement of whatever, right?

00:28:35.272 --> 00:28:36.953
there are things that are behaviors that

00:28:37.394 --> 00:28:39.255
are unsafe, but just the core,

00:28:39.295 --> 00:28:40.795
the concept of it,

00:28:41.375 --> 00:28:43.296
the idea of a relationship shifting or

00:28:43.316 --> 00:28:45.616
changing parameters is not inherently

00:28:45.757 --> 00:28:46.297
unsafe.

00:28:46.377 --> 00:28:46.577
And again,

00:28:46.637 --> 00:28:49.098
I think that's where we start conflating

00:28:49.138 --> 00:28:51.359
those things has been really unhelpful.

00:28:52.099 --> 00:28:53.921
And I don't think that's just like this

00:28:53.980 --> 00:28:56.481
passive sort of whoops-a-daisy therapy

00:28:56.501 --> 00:28:57.261
talk going wrong.

00:28:57.301 --> 00:28:59.643
Like I do think we keep getting sold

00:29:01.297 --> 00:29:03.478
that i think it's sort of what happened

00:29:03.498 --> 00:29:05.480
with grifters coming into wellness spaces

00:29:05.660 --> 00:29:06.861
and that's not a new thing that's

00:29:07.280 --> 00:29:08.781
historically relevant probably going back

00:29:08.821 --> 00:29:11.683
to freud um but certainly with like

00:29:11.824 --> 00:29:14.065
capitalism and and again just a lot of

00:29:14.125 --> 00:29:18.647
like deregulation that happened through um

00:29:18.688 --> 00:29:20.409
reagan and cutting funding to social

00:29:20.429 --> 00:29:22.891
services and again like we're back on that

00:29:22.971 --> 00:29:24.751
loop again with another republican

00:29:24.791 --> 00:29:27.473
president shock um another

00:29:29.113 --> 00:29:32.454
person who is not good at politics beyond

00:29:32.494 --> 00:29:33.635
the fact that they're good at being on

00:29:33.675 --> 00:29:37.577
tv shock um so again like anything that's

00:29:37.678 --> 00:29:39.679
that's putting it back and and i think

00:29:39.798 --> 00:29:41.661
packaging is really important is where

00:29:41.681 --> 00:29:44.061
like the capitalism comes in where it's

00:29:44.382 --> 00:29:46.443
it's the packaging that gets then sold

00:29:46.463 --> 00:29:49.865
back to us and it's where i don't

00:29:49.905 --> 00:29:52.067
think therapists have done a good job um

00:29:53.928 --> 00:29:55.387
And I don't have a solution, right?

00:29:55.448 --> 00:29:57.148
I'm not over here wagging my finger at

00:29:57.169 --> 00:29:58.628
everybody and being like, duh,

00:29:58.669 --> 00:29:59.888
you guys should just be doing this.

00:30:01.150 --> 00:30:03.109
I also exist under capitalism.

00:30:03.250 --> 00:30:05.111
If I were to write a book that

00:30:05.151 --> 00:30:07.530
sold well and gave me financial security,

00:30:07.590 --> 00:30:08.632
like, yeah,

00:30:08.672 --> 00:30:10.971
I can sort of see and support therapists,

00:30:11.011 --> 00:30:12.491
like get your bag while you can,

00:30:12.531 --> 00:30:14.313
like it's dystopian out there.

00:30:15.426 --> 00:30:17.169
And it's where like, yeah,

00:30:17.568 --> 00:30:19.651
I think putting all of our academic

00:30:19.711 --> 00:30:21.833
research behind paywalls has been a huge

00:30:21.873 --> 00:30:23.775
disservice to civilization, I think.

00:30:25.700 --> 00:30:27.461
when we write one book and that becomes

00:30:27.500 --> 00:30:29.221
our whole career and we tour on it

00:30:29.260 --> 00:30:30.442
and we speak on it and we never

00:30:30.521 --> 00:30:32.643
update anything or change anything and all

00:30:32.663 --> 00:30:34.483
we're doing is the pursuit of our own

00:30:34.544 --> 00:30:38.845
financial end goals that like that also

00:30:38.884 --> 00:30:40.746
becomes harmful.

00:30:40.965 --> 00:30:43.987
I don't know why therapists and therapy

00:30:44.047 --> 00:30:46.448
work isn't free and accessible to people.

00:30:46.848 --> 00:30:48.308
That's not saying therapy sessions,

00:30:48.328 --> 00:30:49.549
that's saying like,

00:30:50.430 --> 00:30:52.131
I love therapists on Substack.

00:30:52.191 --> 00:30:53.711
I love therapists who are putting out good

00:30:53.750 --> 00:30:54.891
information on the internet.

00:30:55.211 --> 00:30:57.051
I do this podcast for free.

00:30:57.192 --> 00:30:58.832
My YouTube channel is free.

00:31:00.413 --> 00:31:01.952
I had a Patreon at one point because

00:31:01.972 --> 00:31:02.393
I was like, ooh,

00:31:02.432 --> 00:31:04.753
I should also make money if I can.

00:31:04.874 --> 00:31:05.493
Because again,

00:31:05.614 --> 00:31:07.055
the cast ballistic mindset of like,

00:31:07.095 --> 00:31:08.414
you're leaving money on the table.

00:31:09.035 --> 00:31:11.836
But again, that wasn't my pursuit.

00:31:11.875 --> 00:31:13.576
My pursuit is to put out stuff for

00:31:13.655 --> 00:31:14.057
free.

00:31:14.517 --> 00:31:14.717
And again,

00:31:14.757 --> 00:31:16.136
I don't think that solves anything.

00:31:16.156 --> 00:31:17.657
While I think those are good ideas and

00:31:17.678 --> 00:31:20.538
those are values aligned for me personally

00:31:20.577 --> 00:31:22.439
and work well in the life that I

00:31:23.898 --> 00:31:26.000
am living and also in how I do

00:31:26.059 --> 00:31:27.039
my own finances,

00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:28.300
how much I charge for a session,

00:31:28.340 --> 00:31:29.800
how much I bill and how I sort

00:31:29.820 --> 00:31:30.641
of do that,

00:31:30.922 --> 00:31:31.862
how I navigate

00:31:32.750 --> 00:31:34.553
living under capitalism while being

00:31:34.673 --> 00:31:37.296
anti-capitalist myself again that doesn't

00:31:37.336 --> 00:31:38.837
work for everyone and I don't think that's

00:31:38.857 --> 00:31:40.859
the be-all end-all because again something

00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:44.743
like academic research being accessible to

00:31:44.763 --> 00:31:48.067
people requires a systemic change right we

00:31:48.087 --> 00:31:50.349
need to fund public institutions and then

00:31:50.410 --> 00:31:51.932
public institutions don't need to make

00:31:52.051 --> 00:31:54.694
money off of their research that's not

00:31:55.612 --> 00:31:57.834
That's not therapist's job to fix that.

00:31:57.874 --> 00:31:59.335
That's a systemic issue that needs to be

00:31:59.375 --> 00:32:03.098
fixed on the systemic level.

00:32:03.719 --> 00:32:04.680
So, you know,

00:32:05.601 --> 00:32:07.962
it gets into where our therapists

00:32:08.083 --> 00:32:09.503
practicing anti-capitalism.

00:32:09.544 --> 00:32:11.266
It's not by having ten ninety nines.

00:32:13.259 --> 00:32:15.580
but also like anybody who's still,

00:32:15.882 --> 00:32:17.122
I say anybody like gosh,

00:32:17.182 --> 00:32:17.863
who would be doing this?

00:32:17.942 --> 00:32:18.903
A ton of people still do this,

00:32:19.063 --> 00:32:19.703
it's a real problem.

00:32:20.523 --> 00:32:21.744
Therapists thinking therapy isn't

00:32:21.785 --> 00:32:22.204
political,

00:32:22.305 --> 00:32:23.786
therapists thinking they shouldn't make

00:32:23.826 --> 00:32:25.067
their politics known.

00:32:26.428 --> 00:32:26.607
No,

00:32:26.647 --> 00:32:28.969
like I do think we as a profession

00:32:28.989 --> 00:32:30.269
should be on the cutting edge,

00:32:30.329 --> 00:32:31.651
on the front edge of,

00:32:33.220 --> 00:32:36.500
challenging and pushing for progress and

00:32:36.540 --> 00:32:38.580
not just like the bare bones liberal

00:32:38.661 --> 00:32:41.662
progressive here in america but like truly

00:32:41.761 --> 00:32:43.883
the research says xyz that's what we

00:32:43.903 --> 00:32:45.343
should be pushing for we should be funding

00:32:45.383 --> 00:32:46.643
this this and this because we have a

00:32:46.702 --> 00:32:48.624
ton of research on it most of our

00:32:48.663 --> 00:32:51.384
societal woes are not unknown question

00:32:51.404 --> 00:32:53.765
marks probably the one that is the

00:32:53.825 --> 00:32:56.605
scariest right now is climate change and

00:32:56.625 --> 00:32:56.885
again

00:32:58.185 --> 00:32:59.406
There's a lot we could do to make

00:32:59.446 --> 00:33:02.128
that better tomorrow that we're just not

00:33:02.169 --> 00:33:03.509
going to because of policy,

00:33:03.569 --> 00:33:06.791
not because the research is not available

00:33:06.892 --> 00:33:07.292
to us.

00:33:09.273 --> 00:33:10.954
We have enough food on our planet to

00:33:10.994 --> 00:33:11.615
feed everyone.

00:33:11.655 --> 00:33:12.777
Let's make that a priority.

00:33:12.797 --> 00:33:14.958
We have enough housing on our planet to

00:33:14.998 --> 00:33:15.679
house everyone.

00:33:15.719 --> 00:33:17.119
Let's make that a priority.

00:33:21.242 --> 00:33:23.424
It's doing things for profit that is the

00:33:23.484 --> 00:33:25.326
problem, of course.

00:33:31.390 --> 00:33:33.191
I just always move back into the critique

00:33:33.211 --> 00:33:33.790
of capitalism.

00:33:33.810 --> 00:33:34.211
Because again,

00:33:34.811 --> 00:33:36.752
that's how I'm aligned and that's what

00:33:36.813 --> 00:33:37.653
makes sense to me,

00:33:37.692 --> 00:33:40.055
that this is making people sick and it's

00:33:40.394 --> 00:33:41.174
unnecessary,

00:33:41.214 --> 00:33:42.596
which is driving people crazy,

00:33:42.655 --> 00:33:44.696
that it doesn't have to be this way.

00:33:45.117 --> 00:33:47.439
We know that cognitively and also don't

00:33:47.459 --> 00:33:48.900
have access to making the changes that we

00:33:48.940 --> 00:33:49.140
want.

00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:50.760
So that sucks.

00:33:52.326 --> 00:33:53.667
Zen also will keep me in business for

00:33:53.688 --> 00:33:54.148
a while, right?

00:33:54.169 --> 00:33:55.810
Like it's not that I don't talk about

00:33:55.871 --> 00:33:57.051
having good job security.

00:33:57.092 --> 00:33:58.993
I think therapy is worthwhile.

00:33:59.914 --> 00:34:02.857
And I think therapy that becomes

00:34:02.897 --> 00:34:06.521
self-serving is problematic in the sense

00:34:06.781 --> 00:34:09.764
of it's not progressing society.

00:34:09.784 --> 00:34:11.246
It's not pushing things forward.

00:34:11.286 --> 00:34:12.668
It's not creating change.

00:34:12.708 --> 00:34:14.670
It's certainly not revolutionary.

00:34:15.530 --> 00:34:15.751
Um,

00:34:16.586 --> 00:34:18.487
And I think that is a problem.

00:34:18.867 --> 00:34:20.568
Not only is that a missed opportunity,

00:34:20.608 --> 00:34:22.849
it's an outright problem that therapy is

00:34:23.789 --> 00:34:26.610
so complacent in that and often gets

00:34:26.650 --> 00:34:30.512
co-opted into policing people's existence.

00:34:32.373 --> 00:34:32.614
And again,

00:34:32.653 --> 00:34:34.255
that's when we get into like using words

00:34:34.275 --> 00:34:36.735
like functional and productive in harmful

00:34:36.775 --> 00:34:37.135
ways,

00:34:38.356 --> 00:34:41.418
where it's not in our client's best

00:34:41.518 --> 00:34:41.918
interest,

00:34:42.018 --> 00:34:43.438
it's in the interest of

00:34:44.688 --> 00:34:47.851
society and that society is one that

00:34:47.972 --> 00:34:49.875
promotes profit over people.

00:34:51.197 --> 00:34:52.358
And like therapy shouldn't be a part of

00:34:52.398 --> 00:34:52.559
that.

00:34:53.632 --> 00:34:56.275
uh therapists themselves shouldn't be a

00:34:56.315 --> 00:34:59.237
part of that and so it's it's it's

00:34:59.277 --> 00:35:00.938
pushing back on that stuff certainly but

00:35:00.958 --> 00:35:02.740
it's also like throwing our professional

00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.322
weight around and I will say on the

00:35:05.362 --> 00:35:07.405
sort of priority list of who cares about

00:35:07.905 --> 00:35:09.987
what credentials come after your name like

00:35:10.027 --> 00:35:12.248
therapists are are near the bottom of that

00:35:12.329 --> 00:35:15.391
list like doctors and lawyers are pretty

00:35:15.452 --> 00:35:17.853
high I would say lawyers are stupidly high

00:35:17.954 --> 00:35:20.115
in our modern Dynamic where like

00:35:21.646 --> 00:35:23.568
supreme court legislates from the bench

00:35:23.628 --> 00:35:25.967
like that's not what is supposed to happen

00:35:27.068 --> 00:35:29.168
the the idea that like there's checks and

00:35:29.188 --> 00:35:31.789
balances part of what is wrong right now

00:35:31.869 --> 00:35:35.811
is is such a rogue uh legal system

00:35:36.371 --> 00:35:37.632
and so i would say lawyers are actually

00:35:37.652 --> 00:35:40.632
at the top where uh we have policy

00:35:40.693 --> 00:35:42.773
wonks and people who are writing and

00:35:42.952 --> 00:35:47.434
legislating um from the courtroom they're

00:35:47.635 --> 00:35:48.355
litigating

00:35:49.625 --> 00:35:50.646
medical practice, right?

00:35:51.186 --> 00:35:52.728
I think doctors for a long time were

00:35:52.748 --> 00:35:53.650
at the top of that list.

00:35:53.849 --> 00:35:55.532
Medical doctors, MDs,

00:35:56.012 --> 00:35:59.135
literally with that licensure were at the

00:35:59.155 --> 00:35:59.376
top.

00:35:59.396 --> 00:36:00.637
But I do think it's lawyers now.

00:36:00.958 --> 00:36:03.280
But again, those groups are up top.

00:36:03.501 --> 00:36:05.264
I know a ton of great work that

00:36:05.344 --> 00:36:07.226
medical professionals are doing to raise

00:36:07.246 --> 00:36:07.827
awareness,

00:36:09.128 --> 00:36:13.068
Organize whatever I don't think general

00:36:13.128 --> 00:36:16.570
strikes from medical professionals happen

00:36:16.630 --> 00:36:19.510
nearly enough as to create the change that

00:36:19.550 --> 00:36:20.971
they want to see that they know we

00:36:21.030 --> 00:36:21.291
need.

00:36:22.371 --> 00:36:22.650
And again,

00:36:22.670 --> 00:36:24.092
that's not me throwing shade again,

00:36:24.132 --> 00:36:26.311
like these things are really hard to do

00:36:26.811 --> 00:36:27.873
and they need to do them.

00:36:27.972 --> 00:36:28.992
We need to do them if we want

00:36:29.032 --> 00:36:30.112
the world to be a better place.

00:36:30.713 --> 00:36:30.932
Again,

00:36:30.972 --> 00:36:32.373
we need to do the uncomfortable work

00:36:32.474 --> 00:36:35.974
ourselves as professionals to create a

00:36:36.014 --> 00:36:36.974
safer environment.

00:36:40.423 --> 00:36:41.949
I'm really far afield from where I

00:36:41.989 --> 00:36:45.340
started.

00:36:45.380 --> 00:36:46.806
But yeah, I mean like,

00:36:48.065 --> 00:36:49.487
practicing what we preach, certainly.

00:36:49.746 --> 00:36:49.947
Again,

00:36:50.206 --> 00:36:52.027
I don't think this is something therapists

00:36:52.088 --> 00:36:53.429
themselves can fix.

00:36:53.489 --> 00:36:55.409
I think we as professionals need to be

00:36:55.449 --> 00:36:56.490
building coalitions.

00:36:56.570 --> 00:36:57.851
We're siloed,

00:36:57.871 --> 00:37:00.652
which is how non-professionals like

00:37:00.713 --> 00:37:04.014
insurance companies and people who have

00:37:04.054 --> 00:37:06.956
their bachelors in business are wielding

00:37:07.016 --> 00:37:09.398
more power in our society than all of

00:37:09.458 --> 00:37:10.539
us professionals combined.

00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:13.460
so i think building coalitions there and

00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:14.920
being uncomfortable sometimes

00:37:15.001 --> 00:37:16.260
uncomfortable not just in the work we do

00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:17.762
with clients but uncomfortable in how we

00:37:17.782 --> 00:37:20.682
show up in society to make noise and

00:37:20.822 --> 00:37:25.284
organize and resist um some of the stuff

00:37:25.724 --> 00:37:28.346
should be uncomfortable because again we

00:37:28.585 --> 00:37:32.608
we gave up way too much ground um

00:37:32.668 --> 00:37:33.827
where now it's really hard work and it

00:37:33.867 --> 00:37:35.929
feels unsafe and sometimes it might be

00:37:35.989 --> 00:37:38.150
again like certainly protesting like

00:37:38.742 --> 00:37:39.123
long,

00:37:39.182 --> 00:37:41.605
long history of people driving their cars

00:37:41.625 --> 00:37:43.106
into protesters, right?

00:37:43.166 --> 00:37:44.226
The system,

00:37:45.347 --> 00:37:47.688
capitalism responds with violence.

00:37:48.349 --> 00:37:51.210
So there is a time where this stuff

00:37:51.231 --> 00:37:52.952
does escalate into being unsafe.

00:37:52.992 --> 00:37:55.713
But again, the idea itself is not unsafe.

00:37:55.753 --> 00:37:57.414
The behaviors can be unsafe.

00:37:57.835 --> 00:37:59.036
The idea itself is uncomfortable.

00:37:59.829 --> 00:38:01.510
And that's the difference we need to be

00:38:01.550 --> 00:38:01.851
working.

00:38:01.911 --> 00:38:03.733
And as we scale up and start talking

00:38:03.753 --> 00:38:05.054
about systemic change,

00:38:05.614 --> 00:38:06.954
that gets a lot more complex.

00:38:07.014 --> 00:38:09.516
But in your unhealthy relationship,

00:38:09.597 --> 00:38:10.697
in asking for a raise,

00:38:10.818 --> 00:38:13.420
in responding to an email, whatever,

00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:15.320
those things aren't unsafe.

00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:16.601
Those things are uncomfortable.

00:38:16.943 --> 00:38:18.903
And we need to listen to our nervous

00:38:18.923 --> 00:38:19.204
system.

00:38:19.224 --> 00:38:21.025
We need to resource our nervous system.

00:38:21.045 --> 00:38:23.186
We need to let it complete its journey

00:38:23.226 --> 00:38:25.449
from ramping up to soothing back down.

00:38:26.530 --> 00:38:28.695
But that's not the be all end all.

00:38:28.916 --> 00:38:29.838
It's part of

00:38:31.617 --> 00:38:33.858
the multitude of signals that our body is

00:38:33.898 --> 00:38:35.298
processing at any given time.

00:38:35.898 --> 00:38:40.019
Sometimes our system does go into

00:38:40.179 --> 00:38:42.199
autopilot as a safety mechanism.

00:38:42.219 --> 00:38:42.519
And again,

00:38:42.579 --> 00:38:45.320
I think that's a true trauma response.

00:38:45.340 --> 00:38:46.840
I don't like to attach true to it.

00:38:46.860 --> 00:38:47.900
It sounds like I'm trying to be the

00:38:47.981 --> 00:38:49.760
arbiter of what is like an okay response

00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:50.240
and what isn't.

00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:52.501
Again, the goal of any of these responses,

00:38:52.581 --> 00:38:54.782
this is information our body is giving us

00:38:54.822 --> 00:38:57.722
in real time about the surroundings,

00:38:57.762 --> 00:38:59.322
about our environment in the moment.

00:38:59.342 --> 00:39:00.184
And like, yes,

00:39:00.224 --> 00:39:01.684
we have to learn how to work with

00:39:01.764 --> 00:39:02.625
that stuff.

00:39:03.346 --> 00:39:06.668
I'm not suggesting there is a solution to

00:39:06.708 --> 00:39:07.027
everything.

00:39:07.068 --> 00:39:07.768
It's not black and white.

00:39:07.807 --> 00:39:10.750
The point is that there's nuance and that

00:39:10.789 --> 00:39:12.610
we have a lot of options available to

00:39:12.710 --> 00:39:13.592
us because we've

00:39:14.152 --> 00:39:15.574
learned about ourselves.

00:39:15.614 --> 00:39:17.594
We've learned about bodies in general.

00:39:17.614 --> 00:39:19.096
We've learned about the brain,

00:39:19.155 --> 00:39:21.737
how it works within the body,

00:39:21.757 --> 00:39:23.038
because it's just part of the body.

00:39:23.077 --> 00:39:24.438
It's not its own special thing.

00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:26.840
We learned about our environment.

00:39:27.460 --> 00:39:29.561
We have tools available to us.

00:39:29.722 --> 00:39:31.543
There's a lot of things that go into

00:39:31.563 --> 00:39:31.782
this.

00:39:32.762 --> 00:39:34.882
And all of that is about existing in

00:39:34.943 --> 00:39:35.842
our current context.

00:39:35.902 --> 00:39:38.543
So it's not just we've done our individual

00:39:38.583 --> 00:39:41.324
work, it's our awareness, our existence,

00:39:41.403 --> 00:39:43.244
our interaction with our environment,

00:39:43.764 --> 00:39:45.045
again, in real time.

00:39:45.804 --> 00:39:48.885
And so I think right now what's been

00:39:48.925 --> 00:39:49.965
sold back to us,

00:39:50.005 --> 00:39:51.985
what's being packaged up in Therapy Speak

00:39:52.025 --> 00:39:53.646
and taking away the power of how we

00:39:53.686 --> 00:39:55.146
understand our nervous systems and what

00:39:57.539 --> 00:39:59.661
our brain and body has been designed to

00:39:59.681 --> 00:40:02.083
do, uh, have evolved to do, uh,

00:40:03.346 --> 00:40:05.206
is really, really cool actually.

00:40:05.907 --> 00:40:09.110
And our system has been hijacked by bad

00:40:09.431 --> 00:40:09.911
actors,

00:40:09.952 --> 00:40:11.653
by people in power who want to abuse

00:40:11.673 --> 00:40:12.233
that system.

00:40:12.775 --> 00:40:13.795
And so we need to just, again,

00:40:13.815 --> 00:40:15.617
like be aware that like there's an active

00:40:15.697 --> 00:40:17.860
process going on on the systemic level

00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:19.862
that is limiting us and also

00:40:21.422 --> 00:40:23.083
the people who have created that system

00:40:23.324 --> 00:40:26.846
own the message machine uh the algorithms

00:40:27.166 --> 00:40:29.447
and all the feedback loops that that we

00:40:29.467 --> 00:40:31.168
have for some of the stuff and so

00:40:32.108 --> 00:40:33.969
um our nervous systems feel on fire and

00:40:33.989 --> 00:40:35.849
then we're being told to like go home

00:40:35.909 --> 00:40:38.231
and soothe instead of being like oh our

00:40:38.251 --> 00:40:39.972
nervous system is on fire because like

00:40:40.552 --> 00:40:41.773
we're under the threat of not having

00:40:41.793 --> 00:40:43.614
enough food because y'all are burning

00:40:43.653 --> 00:40:47.496
fossil fuels at a irresponsible rate when

00:40:47.536 --> 00:40:49.878
there are other alternatives readily

00:40:49.898 --> 00:40:50.338
accessible

00:40:52.096 --> 00:40:54.436
the idea that AI centers need to use

00:40:54.476 --> 00:40:56.077
fresh water is preposterous.

00:40:56.117 --> 00:40:57.458
They don't need to exist,

00:40:57.498 --> 00:40:58.177
first and foremost.

00:40:58.237 --> 00:40:58.677
And second of all,

00:40:58.699 --> 00:41:01.219
they do not need water as the only

00:41:01.259 --> 00:41:02.199
cooling mechanism.

00:41:02.260 --> 00:41:04.760
It's just what is cheapest.

00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:05.561
So again,

00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:08.621
our systems are signaling to us that there

00:41:08.641 --> 00:41:09.382
are problems.

00:41:11.516 --> 00:41:12.677
Some of them are unsafe, right?

00:41:12.777 --> 00:41:15.217
And some of them are long-term unsafe,

00:41:15.277 --> 00:41:16.657
not unsafe in the moment.

00:41:16.878 --> 00:41:18.039
And it's, again,

00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:19.378
like we need to resource so we can

00:41:19.418 --> 00:41:20.338
work on those things.

00:41:20.378 --> 00:41:23.820
That potential threat to our safety that

00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:26.000
we're trying to avoid is a good signal

00:41:26.019 --> 00:41:26.701
to pay attention to.

00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:28.420
It's not something we shut our system down

00:41:28.501 --> 00:41:28.740
for.

00:41:30.521 --> 00:41:30.740
Again,

00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:32.362
thinking about like resourcing for running

00:41:32.402 --> 00:41:33.081
a marathon.

00:43:32.253 --> 00:43:32.632
Okay.

00:43:33.273 --> 00:43:36.317
Hopefully we can clean this up.

00:43:36.817 --> 00:43:38.438
Power went out for a sec.

00:43:38.659 --> 00:43:39.338
Hopefully I'm back.

00:43:39.498 --> 00:43:41.221
Hopefully the recording is still intact.

00:43:42.001 --> 00:43:43.123
We will see.

00:43:44.643 --> 00:43:45.324
I'm just seeing.

00:43:46.485 --> 00:43:47.065
Oh, yeah.

00:43:47.106 --> 00:43:48.606
Our Wi-Fi just cut out.

00:43:48.646 --> 00:43:49.188
Lost everything.

00:43:49.768 --> 00:43:50.469
We'll see what happened.

00:43:50.568 --> 00:43:50.889
I don't know.

00:43:51.630 --> 00:43:52.570
All my stuff went blank.

00:43:52.630 --> 00:43:53.592
And when I tried to pause it,

00:43:53.692 --> 00:43:54.231
it kicked me out.

00:43:54.371 --> 00:43:54.853
And I'm back.

00:43:55.672 --> 00:43:57.215
Okay.

00:44:00.467 --> 00:44:03.389
so yeah our system is is being hijacked

00:44:03.449 --> 00:44:07.052
it's being um again the the packaging

00:44:07.152 --> 00:44:09.094
around what is good information around our

00:44:09.135 --> 00:44:12.297
nervous system and uh understanding how we

00:44:12.318 --> 00:44:14.380
can resource ourselves to run a marathon

00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:16.521
and not just a sprint is being packaged

00:44:16.541 --> 00:44:18.264
back to us in individual work and

00:44:18.324 --> 00:44:20.505
individual work only and that's really

00:44:20.545 --> 00:44:22.788
missing the point and even like my

00:44:22.847 --> 00:44:24.630
metaphor about running a marathon is like

00:44:27.061 --> 00:44:29.103
Marathon runners who run,

00:44:29.523 --> 00:44:30.505
I don't think running marathons is

00:44:30.545 --> 00:44:30.804
healthy.

00:44:30.885 --> 00:44:31.746
I don't love this example.

00:44:33.608 --> 00:44:35.610
Marathon runners don't just run one

00:44:35.670 --> 00:44:36.590
marathon ever.

00:44:36.690 --> 00:44:39.733
They're going to run one again in four

00:44:39.773 --> 00:44:41.414
months or in six months,

00:44:41.474 --> 00:44:43.036
or they run one a year or whatever.

00:44:43.115 --> 00:44:44.056
So again,

00:44:44.518 --> 00:44:46.478
running a marathon is a metaphor here for

00:44:46.539 --> 00:44:48.961
like living our lives across our lifetime.

00:44:49.585 --> 00:44:50.686
through our different stages of life

00:44:50.706 --> 00:44:51.166
development,

00:44:51.726 --> 00:44:54.467
intergenerational health and safety.

00:44:54.887 --> 00:44:57.188
Wouldn't that be a novelty instead of just

00:44:57.208 --> 00:44:58.769
talking about intergenerational trauma?

00:44:59.269 --> 00:45:01.731
And so we need to resource for an

00:45:02.050 --> 00:45:04.512
ongoing continual process,

00:45:04.972 --> 00:45:08.333
not just one singular stressor,

00:45:08.373 --> 00:45:11.356
not just one singular cultural battle,

00:45:11.416 --> 00:45:13.717
but like, yeah, long-term health,

00:45:13.797 --> 00:45:15.358
longevity, uh,

00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:18.882
of health and sustainability.

00:45:18.942 --> 00:45:21.342
Like when I talk about progress and

00:45:21.382 --> 00:45:21.664
things,

00:45:21.704 --> 00:45:24.065
I talk about intensity and frequency,

00:45:24.105 --> 00:45:25.166
but I also talk about health and

00:45:25.186 --> 00:45:26.286
sustainability is what we're doing

00:45:26.387 --> 00:45:27.047
healthy.

00:45:28.248 --> 00:45:29.168
And in a vacuum,

00:45:29.248 --> 00:45:31.489
a lot of times that's questionable.

00:45:31.510 --> 00:45:32.650
A lot of people's behaviors are not

00:45:33.010 --> 00:45:34.630
overtly unhealthy.

00:45:35.552 --> 00:45:35.791
Again,

00:45:35.811 --> 00:45:37.333
the context is gonna be the driver of

00:45:37.353 --> 00:45:38.134
whether it's healthy or not.

00:45:38.173 --> 00:45:39.233
But where a lot of people struggle is

00:45:39.715 --> 00:45:40.534
sustainability.

00:45:41.436 --> 00:45:43.077
And where we as a society are struggling

00:45:43.117 --> 00:45:44.197
right now is sustainability.

00:45:44.217 --> 00:45:44.617
What we're doing,

00:45:45.726 --> 00:45:46.847
now will not work.

00:45:47.867 --> 00:45:49.327
It already isn't working.

00:45:51.509 --> 00:45:53.050
If it continues to limp along like this,

00:45:53.090 --> 00:45:54.190
there's a lot of harm that's going to

00:45:54.210 --> 00:45:54.550
be done.

00:45:54.751 --> 00:45:57.952
And so uncomfortable or unsafe on the

00:45:57.992 --> 00:45:59.653
micro level, on an individual level,

00:45:59.773 --> 00:46:01.775
on a macro level, systemically,

00:46:02.514 --> 00:46:04.717
we have to be able to work through

00:46:04.757 --> 00:46:08.197
discomfort and move through that to

00:46:08.237 --> 00:46:11.960
provide a safer outcome to make safety

00:46:12.780 --> 00:46:14.521
hopefully sustainable.

00:46:16.027 --> 00:46:18.327
so if you're still here cool thanks for

00:46:18.367 --> 00:46:20.349
hanging out uh sorry about the glitch

00:46:20.369 --> 00:46:21.949
hopefully we can clean that up on our

00:46:22.010 --> 00:46:24.690
end on the editing um if you don't

00:46:24.710 --> 00:46:26.132
know what i'm talking about that means we

00:46:26.172 --> 00:46:34.016
did it hooray um speaking of uh

00:46:35.463 --> 00:46:36.063
We did it.

00:46:36.505 --> 00:46:38.425
We've got some guests scheduled.

00:46:38.465 --> 00:46:40.286
They're lined up over the next couple of

00:46:40.306 --> 00:46:40.527
weeks.

00:46:40.567 --> 00:46:42.507
I'll be recording with guests again,

00:46:42.547 --> 00:46:44.349
getting that frequency picked back up for

00:46:44.389 --> 00:46:45.269
guest episodes.

00:46:45.289 --> 00:46:46.650
Some of them are therapists.

00:46:46.670 --> 00:46:48.552
Some of them are special guests who are

00:46:48.612 --> 00:46:49.393
not therapists,

00:46:49.413 --> 00:46:50.393
but they're people you might know from

00:46:50.452 --> 00:46:51.074
something else.

00:46:52.318 --> 00:46:53.197
That's pretty cool.

00:46:54.498 --> 00:46:55.539
So I'm excited about that.

00:46:55.579 --> 00:46:56.860
I'm excited to, again,

00:46:56.900 --> 00:46:59.181
hit that groove with a bit of me

00:46:59.240 --> 00:47:02.382
complaining about systems and therapists

00:47:02.422 --> 00:47:05.184
being bad at systems work and getting

00:47:05.224 --> 00:47:06.804
insight from other professionals,

00:47:07.686 --> 00:47:08.806
from other therapists who are different

00:47:08.846 --> 00:47:09.927
specialties than I do.

00:47:09.967 --> 00:47:12.288
So go team.

00:47:13.387 --> 00:47:13.768
All right, y'all,

00:47:13.788 --> 00:47:15.489
that's what I got for this week.

00:47:15.728 --> 00:47:16.570
Take care of yourself.

00:47:16.610 --> 00:47:17.931
Take care of somebody else.

00:47:18.090 --> 00:47:18.510
Peace.