Rethink Your Rules
Dr Jenny Hobbs is a practicing physician with ADHD, a wife, and a mom to differently wired kids. She combines candid, insightful conversations with practical tools to help you enjoy better relationships at home, at work, and with yourself.
Rethink Your Rules
A Conversation with My 8-year old: Navigating Anxiety, ADHD, and Perfectionism
This week, I'm sharing an interview with my 8-year-old daughter. in this fun, free-flowing conversation, we talk about the stresses of starting a new school year, ADHD, anxiety, emotional regulation skills, perfectionism, and more. You'll come away with a smile on your face and helpful insights for your own family.
Remember, if you or your kids have ideas for topics or questions you'd like me to discuss with Nora on a future episode, simply email me jenny@jennyhobbsmd.com and we will make it happen!
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Everything on this podcast and website is for informational purposes only and should not be used as medical advice. Views are our own, and do not necessarily represent those of our past or present employers or colleagues.
Welcome to Rethink your Rules with Jenny Hobbs MD. A fresh perspective on relationships, success and happiness for high-achieving moms.
Speaker 2:Hey, there it's Jenny. Welcome back to another episode of Rethink your Rules. I am super excited to be back this week with an interview. I have not done an interview in a while and this one is going to be super fun because it's with one of my favorite people in the entire world and actually I am going to let them introduce themselves. So, without further ado, special guest, do you want to let everyone know your name and a little bit about you?
Speaker 3:Hi, I am Eleanor Zabel Hoggs. I like to go by Nora. It's a nickname and I like people to respect that, but I am in third grade. I'm eight years old.
Speaker 2:Let's get on with the podcast. Awesome, that is a great intro. So, yes, this is my daughter Nora. She is a third grader, as she said. And how old are you? I already said that. Oh, you did, I missed it, sorry. Mom's ADHD, I guess, kicked in huh, eight years old, in third grade. And why don't we start off by having you tell them a little bit about you? So what are some of your favorite activities and hobbies?
Speaker 3:I like doing gymnastics, dance and soccer. I also like to draw journal and learn.
Speaker 2:That's true, yeah, and what are your favorite subjects in school?
Speaker 3:I like math, PE, literature and art yeah, that sounds right, oh yeah, and English and grammar, grammar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you seem to like a lot of your school subjects, I've noticed.
Speaker 3:I like to learn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you overall so far. You're about a almost a month into the school year. How are you liking third grade?
Speaker 3:It's really good. I have a nice teacher and I think it will be a wonderful year. I have really nice friends and classmates too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I seem to remember you were a little nervous before the school year started. You like your schedule. What do you like about your schedule?
Speaker 3:It's like open, like there's time throughout the periods.
Speaker 2:Yeah, by the way, our school has periods for third graders, yeah, so that's kind of different, that people might not know about.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's only the district we're. We have the one of the only districts right now that has third graders doing periods and yeah, I've always been a little bit ahead of my grade, but like only because, like I'd finish work first and like finish it earlier than some people, so I get a lot of time to do other things. For example, I'd have time, like, if you finish work early, you get rewards, but you have to make sure that you focus and concentrate and make sure that you're not rushing yourself just to get the reward. You need to focus and concentrate on your work before you decide. Okay, I think this is good. I think it's right. Turn it in and then get your free time, because you need to concentrate, not just focus on your the thing ahead of you. Focus on the thing you're doing now and don't focus on other things. Now let's get into the interview okay, awesome.
Speaker 2:So yes, so Nora is in third grade and they do have this really interesting schedule where they do sort of a period thing, almost like you would do in middle school, where they have a main teacher but then they go to a different teacher's room for some of the subjects. And I actually do think it's kind of fun and nice for Nora because she gets to interact with different teachers and move around.
Speaker 3:It does prep me for middle school and other grades ahead, because it does teach you about how being late you can get rid of time that you want. For example, our teacher decides that if you're late to class by more than three minutes, then he'll take away five minutes of choice time. And I think that's exactly a good example, because in middle school I bet you, if you're late, you're going to get called to the office and they're going to talk to you about it, because they're going to call you on the big speakers and you don't want that. Yeah, Like that's why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. They are beginning to teach you guys a little bit more about managing time and being responsible, which I think is good. So, yeah, so why don't we talk a little bit more about school? I know, right before the school year started, you were a little nervous about some things and worried, which I think is pretty normal for most kids, but you were extra anxious, and so how do you think now are you feeling about the things that you were worried about?
Speaker 3:It's just the teacher and I realize they're really funny and really kind and I think that they've put in the work and I get why. If they're being stressed, I bet you they're under stress too, because I can tell that they're under stress because actually they told us.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I think that's a good point. So I think it sounds like you like it when your teachers tell you about the things that are hard for them and they seem like more like real people.
Speaker 3:They actually teach you a lot about how if you bring something to love to school and lose it, it's not their fault. They even told us about a story where they brought something really special and someone tried to. They stole it and customized it, but they were brave enough that they knew it was theirs to come and take it and say no, that's my toy, give it back. In the same grade that I'm in the third grade, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I'm hearing that you like it when they tell you stories that you can relate to, especially my teacher. He has some good stories.
Speaker 3:He has a lot of teacher stories but he forgets them. But when we come up on the subject, he remembers them. He's like okay, I'll tell you the story. He's like every day there's a new story.
Speaker 2:That's pretty funny. Yeah, that's awesome. And is there anything that's feeling the most stressful still about school?
Speaker 3:Probably friend issues. Yeah, do you want to talk more about that or keep it private For friends and social community. I don't think they want them to be shared on the Internet without permission about anything. So I don't think I'm going to talk deeper about that, because you'd need a lot of people's permission to share them on the Internet. All I can say is friend issues.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I think you can talk a little bit about how it's feeling for you. Are you feeling like you have some good friends? I have some really good friends.
Speaker 3:Sometimes, I bet you, they're stressful as well, and we're all so young that we don't understand how to not drag any of the madness out on other people's stress.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's really good. I think one thing I will say to our listeners is that Nora has been, has worked with a lot of really great teachers who have kind of taught her some of these things she's she's mentioning here where you can kind of have empathy.
Speaker 3:Three teachers and my school, for my school and my school goes K to eight, which is crazy because then I would have had four but I was in a split class. So then you don't have to give up a teacher at such an early age.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we really like doing that. So they have what's called a loop teacher for kindergarten and first. So she had the same teacher for kindergarten and first and then someone for second and now one for third. I was just going to say, to kind of wrap that up, how you were saying like you've noticed that sometimes your friends or teachers might be having a hard time and that's why they're acting that way. Um, I was going to say that I think that you've learned some of those skills at thinking about how other people are feeling and having empathy from your teachers and your social emotional learning that they prioritize at your school, right, and I think that's really helped you and I think that was pretty obvious in your answers. So, yeah, why don't we talk about our home life a little bit? What do you like best about being part of our family?
Speaker 3:Probably how nice everyone is and caring. For example, my brother, my older brother, is sick. We've all been trying to be as kind as we can. Yes, we have hard moments with our family, but we just want to remember that we love them. It's just sometimes hard to notice, especially if you have ADHD or autism. I get it, but you have to make sure that you're a good person and a good citizen and trying not to hurt other people's feelings on purpose.
Speaker 2:I love that insight and I think that's true. I think so. Right now her older brother is really sick with kind of of a stomach bug, and that's a great example of how, even though, um, our kids can sometimes argue a lot and be really frustrated, like siblings do, nora has been checking. Yeah, it's normal to feel that way about your brother or sister, and it's also really nice how Nora is checking in and caring about her brother, even though sometimes it's hard to do right.
Speaker 3:If someone's being rude especially if your like sibling's being rude to you all the time and then you're nice to them and they still treat you badly, don't like, just don't, okay. Don't try and be mean to them. Keep being nice to them because and think about how you're being nice Don't think about how they're being rude because that doesn't matter. And think about how you're being nice, don't think about how they're being rude because that doesn't matter. Think about how you're being kind and you're not doing anything wrong. Think about that.
Speaker 2:Right, it's more about you. I noticed that you do a good job of trying to get focused on your part, playing your part and doing the best you can, and that's a little hard.
Speaker 3:I think sometimes, yeah, especially when you're young, but it gets easier. Just practice a lot and it gets.
Speaker 2:It gets easier well, one thing I enjoy about you, nora and I think it's similar to me is your. You do always try your best and I think you notice a lot of things and you keep track of a lot of things. So sometimes I don't think you're trying to be in his business, but you're just noticing things and trying to help out. But sometimes he says not your business, leave me alone.
Speaker 3:And so that's Trying to help him with something like, for example, if he loses a tooth and he's like bleeding so bad he needs help. Like I can help get him a tissue, but he's like no, I can do it on my own. He wants to help himself, but if he's not able, I try to help him. But since he is older, he tries to do things on his own, but sometimes it doesn't end well. That's the only reason I try and help, especially when he's not capable of doing it himself.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think in most families like, just like for you guys, there are some things that come easier to you and some things that are easier for him, and it can be hard, since he's older, if something to accept help from you For example, for me, pills are a little harder, and then for charlie, something that's harder is learning how to spend time with his family and going outside with no screens, and learning how to control himself himself yeah, that's, that's a good example.
Speaker 2:So for nora, our kids, our kids, um, just to kind of keep all you on the loop, our kids both take some medications and that is something that Charlie got pretty comfortable with pretty fast, but it's been harder for Nora and it induces more anxiety. But yeah, whenever we talk about things like going outside or going to dinner or having to maybe be a little bit kind and social, even when you're kind of in a bad mood, like when people visit or grandparents, that's kind of hard for Charlie and it's easier for Nora sometimes. So we one thing we do is help each other and sometimes, no matter what you do, the other person's just grumpy, right, yep, yeah, um, and you kind of mentioned this, nora. But well, so our family does have a lot of neurodivergence, adhd and so does my mom, and my brother also has autism.
Speaker 3:We're pretty sure dad has autism but he hasn't gotten tested. But everyone else has gotten tested positive for ADHD, with my mom right here and my brother. He might not know, but he probably will in the future. Charlie, he has both, and then me I have ADHD hyperactive, and we think dad has autism. It's a high chance, because Charlie got autism and mom doesn't have it, so it's a high chance he does. Also, he acts similar to Charlie, who does have autism, so we do think he does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. So grownups like your dad. It wasn't as common to get a diagnosis of their autism earlier in life, but they can kind of look at the criteria now as an adult and kind of see it. So when I was a little girl I had ADHD but we didn't know it and people weren't even asking the question. Because it presents differently in girls, and particularly girls that are pretty good at school and pretty good at getting things done when they need to. It cannot be super obvious and I've talked before on this podcast I'll link in the show notes about how ADHD presents differently in girls and women. So Nora is different than me because she was given the diagnosis of ADHD as a girl much earlier in her life yeah.
Speaker 3:So actually mom, as she was saying, she did skip a grade. So yeah, she was smart. So it's hard for them to know because most people would think if you have ADHD you wouldn't be that smart. But actually I'm actually pretty smart for my age as well, especially for having ADHD.
Speaker 2:But yeah, yeah, so when we go to conferences and things, what people tell us is both of our kids. They say they're great, they're at or above their grade level, they're doing great academically, and so it would be easy to not really notice that they had ADHD and autism and one of the things that kind of brought us to realize that. Well, so Nora's raising her hand here, so what do you want to say?
Speaker 3:For example, all of my friends are saying like you have ADHD when I told them and they're like because yeah, and they're like they don't believe it because they've known that I'm smart and that I'm kind and it looks like I don't. But sometimes you gotta not judge a book by its cover.
Speaker 2:That's so true and I think one of the big things for people listening to this if you're wondering, you know, does my kid have ADHD or should I think about it?
Speaker 2:One of the signs can be really intense big emotions and being very anxious.
Speaker 2:A lot of times people don't recognize that that emotional dysregulation is a big feature of ADHD.
Speaker 2:It's both ADHD and autism. But as we're talking about Miss Nora here, one of the things that happened was, even though 90% of the time she did absolutely great in, say, kindergarten, she would have these moments where her emotions would be so big and her anxiety would be so big that she couldn't handle being in the classroom, couldn't handle the things that she wanted to do, and so it'd be easy to say that's all anxiety, or even some parents would say, oh, that's just a behavioral thing, she just needs more boundaries and things like that. But because we had been through some of this with our son and with me, we did a full evaluation and that actually did show that the root of some of her anxiety and big emotions was actually ADHD, and she actually has pretty hyperactive ADHD, similar to me, and so that just presents a little bit differently. And so along those lines. Nora, I thought maybe do you want to talk about what it was like for you when you first found out.
Speaker 3:I don't know about hyperactive ADHD, but then I can talk about what it was like for you when you first found out about hyperactive adhd, but then I can't talk about that, okay. So, um, for example, how you know if it's hyperactive or not, they will tell you. But another way is to tell is, like, if you're doing, for example, gymnastics, chilling or dance those are all sports, because if you have adhd, you most likely have hyperactive, especially since my mom was actually a gymnast when she was a kid and let alone I'm a gymnast right now. So let alone. It just leaves you to notice that gymnastics can be tough. You need to balance, have strength and you need to be flexible and graceful. You need to move for that. You need to move. That Like you need to move Exactly hyperactive ADHD. You can't sit down for a whole school day. You literally almost feel like you're going to pass out because you need to move. That's why they give you recess.
Speaker 2:So does it feel pretty hard for you when you have to sit for too long doing the same thing? Yes, actually, do you remember some of the things that were happening when you first found out you had ADHD? Remember you were getting those really, really big emotions where you couldn't stay in the classroom.
Speaker 3:It was two years ago. Yeah, I was in first grade, and I was just like oh, I wonder why I'm acting like this all the time, because no one else acts like that, except for people like I don't know what to call them, because I know that ADHD and autism and like that is the thing, but I don't think I have it. And then I asked dad and dad said that I had ADHD, and I was like, and he was like oh, yeah, your brother also has autism and ADHD. And I was like, oh, and I was like, oh, that's why. And I'm like, I am crazy and I want to be happy, but sometimes I can't figure out how to be happy when I have to be sad, when I'm like feeling sad emotions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is something. I think that's a really nice way to put it. And that's one thing I've noticed about you is that your emotions sometimes are so big and so real that you can't just pretend they're not there. I think some kids who don't have ADHD and emotional dysregulation and stuff they can kind of their emotions, are easier for them to kind of push away and pretend it's fine. But you, once you feel a big emotion, it's right there and it has to be listened to and I think that's actually a great thing it's going to make you an amazing adult and you're very honest.
Speaker 3:for example, today actually I was having some issues with a friend so I accidentally um, well, not accidentally I was outside and the last person in the line, this girl. He was really nice, we never really talked before and she said are you okay, nora? And I was like yeah, and I was like crying because someone was being mean, but I was just pushing through it and then I went inside but yeah, Even grown-ups in this world think it's not okay to have a big emotion and they try to pretend it's not there.
Speaker 2:And something that I think is really great about you and I think this is one of the superpowers of ADHD is that we have big emotions and we don't ignore them, and it makes us very honest and it gives us a lot of empathy, like you were saying, where you can think about how others are feeling. And sometimes, when you're a young kid, your emotions can be so big they can keep you from doing things Like remember we had to take a pause on gymnastics and soccer and have you come into school in a different way for a while because of those big emotions, right?
Speaker 3:But now I ride the bus and I do gymnastics, soccer, and I want to get into a couple more sports. Do you mind if I tell them what I want?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:I wanted to get into ice skating, horseback riding, hip-hop, jazz, ballet, cheerleading, pretty much almost all kinds of dance. I really want to get into dance. But I also want to start doing rollerblading class because I'm really good at it, but I never get any time to do it except for in PE and birthday parties and ice skating. You can take really good lessons. I also want to be. I want to do piano, the cello and violin. I think that'd be really, really fun.
Speaker 2:But yeah, and that my friends is how you know she has ADHD, because she wants to do all the things I. I'm the same way. I want to do everything, everything these things are doing. And how many things does your brother want to do? Zero, pretty much zero Coding. He wants to do video games and coding and stay inside. Yeah, well y'all.
Speaker 2:I wish you could see the video here, because Nora is on the ground wiggling around. I'm a worm. Are you getting restless? I is on the ground wiggling around. This is getting. I'm a worm, are you getting restless?
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm more, but yes, so that is one of the big differences. Although our son does seem to have elements of both adhd and autism, I think he primarily shows up with this autistic, um, way of being sassy, sassy as a boy. Well, so yeah, and and one of the things that I think it helps to kind of tell the difference is my son and, to a lesser extent, my husband. They tend to be kind of like a little bit more worried about going out and doing new things. They want to kind of stay safe in their, their rigid routines and their smaller group of friends, and it overwhelms them sometimes to go out and do too many things, and I think Nora and I tend to be a little bit more on the ADHD side, where we want to do all the things and sometimes we want to do more than our bodies and our minds can even handle and we get overwhelmed right.
Speaker 3:Two more things that I have to say. One is exactly you can eat more food than you can eat, especially with ADHD. But the next thing is do you hear a very short song? That's the best song in the world. Go for it. Soft kitty, warm kitty, deep down by your foot, Do you?
Speaker 2:want to tell them where you thought of this song. It's on your shirt. I'm wearing a shirt with this. It's from the Big Bang Theory. It's the song they sing when they're sick, and it was a gift from Charlie, so I wore it today because he's sick today. I thought he would like it. I think that that was a really good description, nora, of um, how you feel, and so, yeah, let's talk a little bit about what it's like to be in a family with a sibling who is autistic. What's it like having Charlie as your brother?
Speaker 3:He's really kind and funny when he's on his autistic side and being on his good side and happy side, but when he's sad or sick he doesn't feel good and I really feel bad for him. But other than that he's sad or sick, he doesn't feel good and I really feel bad for him. But other than that he's really nice. He can't be a good move for me.
Speaker 2:You feel like he's kind, or are you just saying that?
Speaker 3:A good move.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a good observation. Autistic people tend to do well when things are the way that works for them right, and not so well when things are out of their comfort zone yeah, or out of their way. One thing, one word we use in our family is flexible. So Charlie does pretty well, but he's not flexible. He's not perfect, right, yeah? So he's not very flexible if things don't go his way.
Speaker 3:That nothing's perfect. Even perfect isn't perfect. Yeah, nothing's perfect. So if you're a perfectionist, I know that this can be hurting you. Just like me, I'm a perfectionist. But the blankets aren't going to be perfect, the pillows aren't going to be perfect, the shirts aren't going to be perfect, the carpet's not going to be perfect, the water bottle is not going to be perfect, the shirts aren't going to be perfect, the carpet's not going to be perfect, the water bottle is not going to be perfect. What do you expect? For example, you wait in line for like six hours waiting in line for a Stanley, and it's too small.
Speaker 2:What do you expect? Have you had this experience of waiting in line for a Stanley?
Speaker 3:I know, but I'm drinking from one right now.
Speaker 2:So actually I'm glad you brought that up. I was going to ask you, so you have. In the last year you said pretty strongly that you consider yourself a perfectionist. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3:I want everything to be perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and how are you doing with dealing with things that aren't perfect?
Speaker 3:Especially other perfectionists. If they say they're perfectionist, I'm like I'm a perfectionist, and then they're like well, it doesn't. I'm like I, it doesn't have to be perfect, and I understand that, even though I'm a perfectionist, I still understand it really well.
Speaker 2:Is it hard for you to kind of talk yourself out of being upset when something's not perfect?
Speaker 3:yeah, like it's just really hard, but I do get it really well, especially for being a perfectionist. I get it that nothing's going to be perfect, but I want it to be as close to perfect as it can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it seems like there are times when it's harder for you to accept that things aren't perfect like your bed.
Speaker 3:So when you tell us to clean our room, I decide, okay, I'll make my bed too when I'm done and I make my bed, but then it's not perfect and my stuffy's not arranged right and the blanket's all crooked. And it makes me all mad because I want to, like I don't know, show my parents and then I'm like I'm getting all frustrated because it's not perfect and I have to call them in and help me, and then it's not going to be like surprising my parents anymore and it makes me really upset because I couldn't do it on my own, yeah, and I couldn't get it to be perfect, and I think that I need to learn how to handle my emotions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and do you have any tips for other kids who might struggle with big emotions around being perfect or scared or anxious?
Speaker 3:So for anxious wise, I would say so take a deep breath. Then open the door, leave the room five seconds, come back in, take a deep breath, but you'll definitely feel better and it will make you feel more reset.
Speaker 2:I love that advice, nora. I kind of do that Sometimes. I know, if I just get outside out of the house, move your body out of the space, take a deep breath and get some perspective on whether it's really a big problem or just a small problem. Yeah, yeah, I think you do a great job of that stuff. I agree, those are great tips. So when you feel really worried or upset and like I know this has happened a couple of times lately Do you have words that you say to the grownups around you so you can, when you want some space?
Speaker 3:Okay. So what I'd say is I need some space. Come back in five or 10, five to 10 minutes, I'll try again. I'll reset. I just need some time to myself to reset, especially like if, for example, if kids are laughing at you, don't be ashamed of yourself. And if, like, there's someone who's being mean to you at school, for example, or if they say you're ugly, you're not ugly, you're pretty, they say you're ugly, you're not ugly, you're pretty, they think they're ugly. And if they say you're mean, they're mean for saying you're mean and they're. If they're being rude to you, don't. None of those things are true and they're just going through something they're. Everything that they say to you is like something that they think is happening to them. Also, something that a mean person or like a mean girl doesn't want you to know is that no one likes a mean girl, even themselves. So they're just trying to check it all out on someone else and it makes them feel better and it makes them feel better.
Speaker 2:Well, I think your point is really, really wise, which is that someone who truly loves themselves is really happy with themselves. Wouldn't say mean things to other people, right? Because if you're happy with yourself and you're feeling calm and confident and happy, then you would say nice things to other people, right? So if they're saying mean things, it's probably coming from a place of them not feeling very good.
Speaker 3:They're thinking that they're going to feel better if someone else doesn't feel good. That's not a healthy way to do that. It's not true. Yeah, they think, okay, I'm feeling better, so let's do this more, but it's really just making other people sad and then they're going to do it to you and it's just going to slow off Well, and I think you do a good job of noticing that.
Speaker 2:Friendships are tough at this age and it's a lot of trying to figure out what's going on with everybody, right? So we do our best to understand them and give them the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes people are not as nice as they could be. Sometimes we exclude each other, right. But we can just do our best and I think you do a great job of that and I think your skills get better every day. I love that. So I had some other questions for you about our house stuff. Like I was curious when you're having a hard time at home and you want space or you're upset, what things do you like that mom and dad do, like what helps you the most that we do?
Speaker 3:oh, probably, like, if we do something easy and it's like we keep doing it you guys push us to new limits. But then you're not like forcing us, like, for example, reading a really easy book and you're like, oh, why don't you try this book? It's a little bit harder. And you're like, okay, and you do it good, so they'll give you a harder book, like a harder book. And you're like I can't do that and you're like, okay, it's fine, you can just try, you can keep practicing these ones until you're ready for this book, so that you can.
Speaker 3:They like you guys aren't pushing us, like forcing us to do anything. You guys are just giving us example, like giving us options. You will never force us to do anything unless it's for our safety, and that's a good point. Yeah, like, for example, medication you could get really really sick if you stop taking your medication. So you wouldn't tell us what to do, like you have to read this book, you can't read another book or something. You would only like Like I'm not saying you don't tell us what to do, like you're not're not like being a good parent, you're being an amazing parent. I think it's just because, like, you're really really kind and you understand us really well and maybe we try.
Speaker 2:Maybe we try to choose what things are most important. Yeah, yeah, and one question I've always wondered about maybe you can tell me right now if you don't want to, you can tell me right now, and if you don't want to, you don't have to. But sometimes, when you're mad, it seems like you are saying leave me alone, I don't want to talk to you ever, and super mean things. But then it seems like if I do leave you alone, you also are kind of mad that I leave it. Can you think back to those times? Like in those moments, does it help you if we give you some space or do you actually want us there, even though you're saying that you're mad at us?
Speaker 3:It's more like a shy thing. You're really shy and you're nervous to talk to that person and you only want to talk to the person they're offering to talk to and you're too shy to tell them.
Speaker 2:you want to talk to them, so is there any tips Like what would be the best for a grown-up to do?
Speaker 3:It's probably I want you to stay and talk to me, but I feel like I'm under pressure because you're like putting me on the spot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one thing I've noticed both you and your brother is sometimes you want us to be with you, but I don't like being put on the spot, yeah, but maybe not talk or ask questions, just be quiet.
Speaker 3:I like you to talk.
Speaker 2:Okay, Like ask questions and listen to what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:I really don't like being put on the spot, so don't ask me like too big of questions, like who did it? Let me talk and you listen and ask questions later, and except for-. Well, I'm sad about it, I don't want to be answering questions while I have a tear coming out of my nose.
Speaker 2:Fair enough. And then I'm going to say this to the people listening too Sometimes when that happens, we'll keep it real here. When Nora feels that way, she has a hard time using nice words and tones for mom and dad, and so while we do really try to be empathetic and listen and kind and supportive, like Nora said, dad and I will pause and say hey, if you talk to us like that, we're going to leave and come back when you can be kind. Right, so we do. We are listening and kind and open, but we also have some boundaries around treating us. We're not your punching bag in that moment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah and yeah, let's change other.
Speaker 2:Nora.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so and this is something I love about Nora too I learned this from one of Nora's occupational therapists that we had was that when kids have a really tough time, like those moments that I'm talking about, they often don't want to talk about them afterward, right Like this wasn't her favorite thing to talk about.
Speaker 2:She's like, okay, let's move on. And I like to remember that, as this OT told me, that's totally normal, like if you had a really bad problem at work that day, probably you don't want to have to talk about it a lot either, because it's like you're having to relive the worst part of your day over and over, making it last a long time. So, of course, we sometimes still have to talk about difficult things, but that was really eye-opening for me to think about. Sometimes, when you have kids and you're like, oh, let's rehash what happened so we can learn from it, and my kids often want to change the subject, that's pretty normal to want to change the subject away from something. That's not your best moment, right, because we all have those moments. Okay, so with that we're gonna wrap up because we've been talking for a while, but Nora.
Speaker 2:I was wondering 42 minutes to make stuff. Yes, we've been talking for a long time, but that's okay. 'll uh podcast editor will go through and make sure that it's like a dad, aka dad. Yeah, the best software engineer? Yep, he's our. He'll make sure that he cleans it up and we might even come back for another round. Um, so if you do have any questions for nora, she might come back and answer them. Maybe if your kids have questions for her about you know some of her experiences as a kid with adhd and anxiety having an autistic brother, don't be afraid to ask them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't be afraid to ask them. Nothing's off limits right. Or if you have questions about what it's been like to.
Speaker 3:You guys wouldn't know about any of my personal life, so nothing would be off limits.
Speaker 2:Ooh, you already got your secret personal life, huh. Well, I do, but you guys would know about it, you parents would know all that, yeah um, but just to wrap up, nora, I was wondering if you have any particular memories of our family that stand out, moments where you, where you felt really close to me or dad and you really appreciated something too.
Speaker 3:Okay, so one is how you treat us very kind, with respect, and two, if I'm like I want to do gymnastics or I want to do dance, you'd be like okay, why don't you focus on what you're doing now and we can look into that? You never like, say no, I don't want you to do that. You do this, you do basketball, you do baseball. No, you let us choose what we want to do. You let us take our own path. Let us make our own decisions about like, for example, about like, for example, spore or or mass, or what to watch on TV or what to do in spare time, or how much water you need or how much food to eat. You're really, really optional with us.
Speaker 2:But yeah, let's wrap this up yeah, we are getting restless here, but I think that's a great way to end it, because we do. We do give you guys a lot of options, and I liked how you pointed out we might say well, we don't just say no, we sometimes say we're going to focus on this right now and we can look into this thing that you want to do. So that's a great tip for parents too. Is people I do soccer gymnastics.
Speaker 3:I do other sports and I asked my I, I asked dad, aka Kevin, but he says okay, we can look into that, but right now, why don't you focus on soccer and gymnastics and see, and, once you get into gymnastics, see how tight your schedule is and see if you think you can fit more than one of um um sport events in your life?
Speaker 2:Yes, and that is a great thing about your dad. That's one thing your dad does for me too. Did you know that? Cause I always think I can do more things? I think I'm going to have a big handful, but you really, when you have ADHD and you have energy, you think you can do everything, and it's a great thing because it gives us our energy and excitement.
Speaker 2:But one thing that's great about daddy is he's very logical. But I did like, how you pointed out, because we, I think for parents to remember, sometimes a great answer, you know, is, instead of just going no, no way, you know, saying not right now, or, you know, like having your kids look into it and make sure they really want to do it, and, um, keeping an open mind. So I love it. Thank you, nora, so much for offering to be on here. I love chatting with you and um, do you have anything you want to say before we head out?
Speaker 3:Make sure to not be scared. If you want to ask any questions or comments about what you thought, or if there's any like other places that you can find me. There isn't one other place you could probably find me, but barely anything me. There isn't one other place you could probably find me, but barely anything. My mom's um instagram stories and like maybe tiktok, but probably not. But yeah, my mom can also link the description to her instagram account and stuff.
Speaker 2:But yeah, yeah, I will link this into the instagram stories and that's a great point. Norah could hop on my story sometime with me and say hi or answer questions and, um, you can see, sometimes I post things about all of her YouTube channel, which means you start back up.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I've got.
Speaker 2:My kids want me to get back on my YouTube channel. I've got lots of work to do so, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, everyone, have a great week and we will Thank you so today, please consider subscribing to the podcast and giving us a five-star rating, so we can reach even more women like you.