92. The Adventures of the Apostles: What Happened to Philip?

Let's be honest-- each of the Gospel authors clearly had their favorite disciples to write about. Lots of Peter yapping, a little bit of Thomas doubting, a little bit of John being beloved. But what about the other guys?

Well, one of those 'other guys' is the apostle Philip, and he's our focus for this week. Join us as we try to uncover once again, what happened to this disciple that the Bible didn't say? Was he martyred? Where did his travels take him?

Also, are we any better at writing haikus on the spot? No, the answer is no. 

But if you want your own personal haiku, don't forget to hit up the link below. Any amount you provide is wonderfully appreciated. 

Buy us a coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/chumphistory

Chapters

• 0:14 Banter Banter Banter
• 8:13 A Haiku for Thomas' Parents
• 11:35 Let's Get to Philip! (finally!)
• 57:05 Who Should our Next Apostle Be?

Transcript

Dinkleberg (00:00.641)
Hey everybody, this is John and Taylor and Thomas and welcome to Church History for Chumps.

The Gatekeeper (00:07.596)
Church history ver-chum.

Caesar Of The West (00:08.364)
Going on.

Dinkleberg (00:12.286)
Mm-hmm. I've said my part. I don't know why you guys are waiting for me to say more.

Caesar Of The West (00:13.57)
Man, I missed you guys.

The Gatekeeper (00:17.138)
I don't you always have nicknames. I get sad when I don't have a nickname. Tommy's popping. Tommy is that is that an is that an ollie pop you have there?

Dinkleberg (00:21.034)
Well, you told me to start like five seconds ago. I didn't have a chance to...

Caesar Of The West (00:29.262)
It's a Minecraft Oli pop.

The Gatekeeper (00:32.052)
I don't even know what that is. Let's just say Tommy's enjoying his Christian liberty and the Baptists in the room are very bothered.

Dinkleberg (00:33.036)
That's nothing like an Oli pop.

Caesar Of The West (00:40.3)
I haven't had supper.

Dinkleberg (00:40.63)
Does that mean me, Taylor?

The Gatekeeper (00:42.806)
Yeah, you're Baptist now, remember?

Caesar Of The West (00:43.424)
I also have hot honey wings. Look at that. Look at the light glistening off of that wing.

The Gatekeeper (00:47.234)
man, that looks good. That's a good Wow. Hot. I'll describe the crisp, the crispy golden skin reflecting the

Dinkleberg (00:51.946)
Yeah. Remember we've talked about this. We're not a video podcast. We can't just show things to people. It means nothing.

Caesar Of The West (01:00.844)
No, they can imagine the light.

You all know what a good wing looks like. So I have a Fentonelli's by Tappan Bottle. Fentonelli's it's pizza place. Super good, very good pizza, very good wings. Yes there is. Look it up.

Dinkleberg (01:07.436)
Where's that from?

The Gatekeeper (01:11.148)
Fent- Fentanyl.

Dinkleberg (01:11.742)
What? Fentanylis? That's not a real place.

The Gatekeeper (01:15.168)
We're gonna need a name change, Pops. Not a chance, I've been cooking pizza here for 12 years.

Dinkleberg (01:21.216)
There is not a place called Fentanelli's in town. Are you serious? What kind of crack is Oro Valley smoking, dude? That's crazy.

The Gatekeeper (01:31.362)
Dude, you're doxing the man.

Caesar Of The West (01:31.374)
Dude, super good, super good food. You just didn't go because it was called Fentanyl and you missed.

Dinkleberg (01:37.982)
I just didn't go. If someone said, I'm going to pick up some from Fentonelli's, I'd be like, no, I'm good on anything there. That's crazy. Yeah.

The Gatekeeper (01:47.776)
What's your question, Tommy?

Caesar Of The West (01:50.528)
so we were talking about how your setup, which people have seen this, when we post our videos, Taylor's setup looks like a Twitch streamer, which I don't think you stream, but if you did...

The Gatekeeper (02:05.493)
I don't.

Dinkleberg (02:06.303)
Do you, Taylor?

Caesar Of The West (02:08.94)
What would your tip emotes be, like if I sent you like a dollar?

The Gatekeeper (02:14.753)
dude. OK, here's some Taylor lore. I did stream. Yeah, I did stream classic wow when it came out for a while and my I was Treddy bear. And I had a little logo of a cute little teddy bear that was like kind of chubby and had tattoos and wearing a Hawaiian shirt. And.

Dinkleberg (02:18.869)
Foot, foot emoji for the gout.

Dinkleberg (02:27.753)
Wow.

Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (02:40.689)
My the stream thing was bless up I had a bless up emoji and so my guild before we would pull a boss They'd be like, all right boys bless up bless up. Come on. Treddy bear bless up Then my chat would be like bless up and spam the little emoji. It was a little arrow that said bless

Caesar Of The West (02:59.416)
How many of our listeners do you think even know who Leroy Jenkins is anymore?

The Gatekeeper (03:04.017)
I don't know, it's a pretty popular meme. 40%.

Dinkleberg (03:05.355)
40%. 40%. That's like a millennial... That's like getting Rick rolled, you know? That's like the Gilded Era of memes.

The Gatekeeper (03:12.531)
I think our listeners, if you know who Leroy Jenkins is, you should leave a comment and a five star.

Dinkleberg (03:20.553)
Yeah. And if you don't know, leave a comment too.

The Gatekeeper (03:24.565)
That's right. Well, Tommy, we survived a week without you, against all odds.

Dinkleberg (03:31.583)
Hanging on by a thread. Yeah. More like by a tread.

Caesar Of The West (03:34.286)
Good job.

The Gatekeeper (03:35.809)
What game would Tommy stream? John Simon.

Dinkleberg (03:44.085)
Some real salts of the earth game, probably like Tetris?

Caesar Of The West (03:47.694)
Farming simulator.

The Gatekeeper (03:47.906)
So, so here's the thing. And only I would know this because I just exist in random pockets of the Internet. Tetris is actually extremely sweaty and competitive now.

Dinkleberg (03:49.291)
Farming Sim.

Dinkleberg (04:02.378)
Why'd you say sweaty on top of that? Yeah. Is it like a gross subculture?

Caesar Of The West (04:03.618)
Yeah, why is that an adjective?

The Gatekeeper (04:03.873)
Do you guys see they don't even know they don't even know No sweaty is sweaty is what you say when you try hard a game like you're sweating while you're No, you my sweet summer child Okay

Dinkleberg (04:12.99)
Isn't that most games?

Caesar Of The West (04:14.018)
Dinkleberg (04:17.234)
What game are you... Okay, alright, this describes me the difference between Tetris... No, I'm gonna... I'm digging deep. I wanna know.

Caesar Of The West (04:20.632)
Dude, I've never been happier to not know something.

The Gatekeeper (04:25.757)
OK, do you want to know? So people will fray it like they'll execute perfect frame movements and they will they will break the game and like certain levels in the coding of the game get broken. And so then they have to learn how to beat the game, broke it. It's like hyper movement memorization. It's like DDR. It's like DDR on like the most advanced thing you've ever seen. Yeah.

Dinkleberg (04:38.668)
Mm-hmm.

Dinkleberg (04:42.229)
Okay.

Caesar Of The West (04:47.886)
Dang, that's crazy.

Dinkleberg (04:48.128)
Hmm.

Dinkleberg (04:53.962)
Yeah.

The Gatekeeper (04:56.093)
So all I'm saying is, I'm pretty sure Tommy would be streaming Stardew Valley.

Dinkleberg (05:03.02)
that's wholesome. That's a wholesome thing. Yeah, I like that. Yeah.

The Gatekeeper (05:06.239)
Yeah, just talking about theology, farming his crops. What would John Simon stream?

Dinkleberg (05:11.282)
How does your wife feel about Stardew Valley? Does Brandy like Stardew or is she more of an Animal Crossing gal?

The Gatekeeper (05:15.305)
Yeah, actually Brandy doesn't like Animal Crossing and like Stardew because it's more custom is customizable. You can do you can do a lot more. There's like systems that you can manipulate inside Stardew and Animal Crossing is just like, here's a house you paid the raccoon for.

Dinkleberg (05:23.647)
Okay.

Dinkleberg (05:33.868)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (05:36.191)
Yeah. What? Tommy, Tommy, what game does John Simon stream?

Dinkleberg (05:37.046)
That's cool. I like that.

Dinkleberg (05:42.219)
Rock Band.

Caesar Of The West (05:44.014)
Actually, I was gonna say like, what was it, like the NBA streets, like 2008?

The Gatekeeper (05:44.053)
No, you don't get to pick.

Dinkleberg (05:54.037)
an old one like not even like a recent one actually be great I like that yeah college hoops 2015 man no probably maybe Tekken I don't know how much of a try hard is Taylor

The Gatekeeper (05:58.06)
That's really good.

The Gatekeeper (06:02.611)
Yeah. Yeah. What am I streaming though, boys?

Caesar Of The West (06:02.946)
Yeah. Yep.

The Gatekeeper (06:14.015)
Something sweaty.

Caesar Of The West (06:16.046)
Dude they just came out, they just released like backyard baseball on like the Apple store and Android store.

Dinkleberg (06:23.606)
Dude, I've seen some clips of people playing that. It is a fun time. No, dude, I've got one for Taylor. I know Taylor would stream. You ready? Bop it.

The Gatekeeper (06:32.821)
Mm-hmm. Pop it. Oh, I would, because I could be super sweaty with it. I'd actually sweat probably. I'd have like four different cams on me.

Dinkleberg (06:42.732)
Hey, what's up, Chad? Thanks for joining. We just got into round 43 here. I'm about to get started and go.

The Gatekeeper (06:51.841)
That's right.

Caesar Of The West (06:53.934)
I wish I could go back in time to before we had asked what sweaty meant.

The Gatekeeper (06:58.913)
I'm really surprised you haven't heard that that's like pretty common vernacular where I'm from

Caesar Of The West (07:06.008)
All right. How they do it.

Dinkleberg (07:06.636)
You're from the internet.

The Gatekeeper (07:07.605)
Dude, Tommy, Tommy Hibby with a Matthew McConaughey. All right.

Caesar Of The West (07:11.991)
Alright.

The Gatekeeper (07:13.887)
Come on, alright.

Dinkleberg (07:14.39)
Okay.

Caesar Of The West (07:15.15)
That's how they do it out in California.

The Gatekeeper (07:17.921)
California. I'm going to Georgia tomorrow.

Dinkleberg (07:18.348)
Yeah.

George?

The Gatekeeper (07:23.038)
Georgia for a for a conference. So of course every 20 minutes I loudly declare to my office. I get my peaches out in Georgia. Tommy loves it. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Dinkleberg (07:32.812)
Hmm, okay. Mm-hmm. Is that a Christian song, Taylor? Was that from his Christian album? No, it wasn't.

Caesar Of The West (07:33.88)
but they love that.

The Gatekeeper (07:43.765)
The next line is, get my weed from California.

Dinkleberg (07:47.244)
Oh, that's right. I it was like, get my Bible from Patagonia.

The Gatekeeper (07:54.088)
I get my oranges out in Florida. That's the kids bop version.

Dinkleberg (07:58.093)
Hmm Guys I have bad news. We won't have a haiku this week Because we don't have any we don't have any supporters. Not any new ones, I guess so Let's just do a haiku about you know, we've done a haiku for Taylor's parents. Let's do a haiku for Thomas's parents

Caesar Of The West (08:06.135)
What?

The Gatekeeper (08:08.768)
No.

Caesar Of The West (08:09.112)
an outrage.

The Gatekeeper (08:19.051)
Thomas's parents have to give us money before they give us a haiku.

Dinkleberg (08:22.656)
Look, they gave us the best gift of all, Thomas Duell.

The Gatekeeper (08:24.811)
Thomas. Why don't you write the haiku asking for money?

Caesar Of The West (08:31.342)
all right. Was it 575? are you doing it? Go for it.

Dinkleberg (08:31.358)
that's good, I can do that. Alright. 575. Stop it, stop it. Taylor doesn't know what a haiku is. He still doesn't know. 675, 645, 442, 575. Alright, Tommy, you gonna take this away? Cause they're your parents technically, so. that's good idea. Yeah, Tommy start, I'll do middle. Okay.

The Gatekeeper (08:34.593)
Three, three, three, Tommy loves every unhinged thing I say. He just gets that smile.

Caesar Of The West (08:38.382)
369

The Gatekeeper (08:54.581)
we should all write a line.

Caesar Of The West (08:58.04)
gonna do. All right.

The Gatekeeper (09:08.385)
Okay, pick it up, Chief.

Dinkleberg (09:10.188)
You

Caesar Of The West (09:10.626)
Well, I think I had six. I was about to pull a tailor and try to squeeze an extra syllable in there.

Caesar Of The West (09:22.696)
it's time to-

PAY-da is gonna be one syllable. Piper. Piper. Piper. Piper. Piper. Piper. Piper. Piper. Piper. Piper. Piper. Piper. Piper.

Dinkleberg (09:29.516)
It's time to... beta-biver, beta-bip.

The Gatekeeper (09:30.571)
Pay to Piper.

Dinkleberg (09:40.618)
It's that was yeah, that was just as bad. You just moved it. All right, here we go time to bit a piper

Caesar Of The West (09:49.836)
Thomas is so poor. about that? Thomas is so poor

Dinkleberg (09:52.812)
Okay, Thomas is so poor. Our pockets are looking dry.

The Gatekeeper (09:53.79)
Okay.

The Gatekeeper (10:01.323)
That's six. Our pockets are looking dry. Yeah, that's six.

Dinkleberg (10:03.016)
It's seven. Our pockets are looking dry.

Caesar Of The West (10:04.928)
our pockets are looking. Yeah, that's seven. Seven. That was seven.

Dinkleberg (10:10.953)
my gosh.

The Gatekeeper (10:13.281)
Okay, what do we have so far? Thomas is so poor.

Caesar Of The West (10:17.752)
Thomas is so poor, our pockets are looking dry.

The Gatekeeper (10:30.763)
Donate, please.

Dinkleberg (10:34.815)
Amen.

The Gatekeeper (10:35.873)
Donate please or else

Dinkleberg (10:44.102)
my, don't threaten his parents, you psycho! My gosh! His toots are... Don't do that! Alright, this is the happiest I've ever been!

Caesar Of The West (10:44.691)
my threat!

The Gatekeeper (10:50.241)
Okay, fine donate donate please donate pretty please

Caesar Of The West (10:50.562)
Beggars not terrorists.

Dinkleberg (11:01.824)
Okay, yeah, that checks out.

Caesar Of The West (11:02.254)
Okay, Thomas is so poor, our pockets are looking dry. Donate pretty please.

Dinkleberg (11:07.702)
Donate pretty please. Yeah. I've never been happier that we have the time marker ability now because even I was like, man, how long have we been going here? It's like we really need to get into the episode. All right. So Taylor, you're the circus leader. You're the ring leader this week.

The Gatekeeper (11:19.527)
All right, well, friends, we are returning.

We're returning to the fate of the apostles at long last. It's been a minute since we did one of these. So I'm sorry. You know, he hopped, we record in Riverside. Just let you guys see behind the scenes. I'll send anybody invites to the chat that wants it. John got in and he goes, how many apostles we got tonight? And I said, Phillip.

Dinkleberg (11:33.548)
It's been a long time. Yeah, it was kind of cruel.

Dinkleberg (11:40.524)
Don't tell them that. Don't tell them that.

stop it. is private.

The Gatekeeper (11:55.606)
And he said, and? And I said, Philip. And he said, Taylor, can't.

Dinkleberg (12:00.713)
Need I remind you, this was supposed to be one episode. And then you were like, it's gonna be, it's gonna take too long. I gotta do eight episodes. it's Taylor, Taylor wrote this into his contract when he joined the show and now his lawyers are bullying our team. And we basically have to pay him $50,000 or let him just do as many episodes as he want.

The Gatekeeper (12:26.175)
Yeah, this is why we need Mr. and Mrs. Duell to donate.

Dinkleberg (12:31.103)
Yeah, yeah, or else we'll have more and more apostle episodes. Is that what you want?

The Gatekeeper (12:35.265)
It's all.

Caesar Of The West (12:35.395)
It's like the opposite of when you have a rapper who doesn't want to keep making the albums that he was supposed to for the label. It's like the opposite of that. It's like, please don't make any more albums.

Dinkleberg (12:40.939)
He just he's like I know my I know my contract says three albums can I make 12 albums All right Philip let's fill her up

The Gatekeeper (12:49.867)
Just slamming them out. Well, as I said, fill up, fill her up, chief. So let's go over who we've covered already. Do you guys remember? We covered Peter. I made you all sad. Covered Andrew. Made you all sad. James on James on James. Which I did not make you all sad.

Dinkleberg (13:02.453)
Peter.

Andrew

Caesar Of The West (13:06.744)
Hi, May.

Dinkleberg (13:09.055)
James James James.

The Gatekeeper (13:17.227)
That tradition, that story. And you know what though? That tradition claims not even about technically an apostle. So yeah. And then we covered Matthew, which didn't make you sad, but didn't make you happy. And the last one was Simon the Zealot.

Dinkleberg (13:17.397)
Good.

Caesar Of The West (13:19.694)
That's right.

Dinkleberg (13:25.929)
Hmm. Yeah, you're really just a.

Dinkleberg (13:31.475)
Matthew? Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (13:46.432)
So essentially, friends, we have just moved through tradition claims and Taylor has ruthlessly slaughtered almost all of them, but brought in some peace and clarity to others. And in the process, we found some really fun stories from ancient sources. So tonight is no different or today or this morning. Whenever you're listening, it's no different. We're going to continue on. Let's start how we normally start these. What do we know about Philip, boys?

Dinkleberg (14:16.372)
Fisherman.

The Gatekeeper (14:19.157)
Did you just guess that?

Dinkleberg (14:21.909)
Nope. Was I right?

Caesar Of The West (14:23.694)
Nope.

The Gatekeeper (14:25.601)
rough estimate. No scriptural anything indicates it, but probably. Okay.

Dinkleberg (14:27.883)
Zia Fisherman.

Dinkleberg (14:33.161)
Let's go, man.

Caesar Of The West (14:34.446)
I like we don't know a lot about Philip.

The Gatekeeper (14:36.609)
But we have a little bit and nope, he's not anybody's brother. He's actually only listed in the synoptic gospels, Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Dinkleberg (14:39.381)
Is he someone's brother?

Dinkleberg (14:50.751)
We'll see the guy under the tree.

The Gatekeeper (14:53.321)
No, that was Zacchaeus.

Dinkleberg (14:56.071)
No, not the short guy. The the there was an apostle that Jesus saw under a tree.

The Gatekeeper (15:03.681)
Hmm. Now. Okay. All right. Fine. We're here.

Dinkleberg (15:07.421)
No no no, you keep doing the episode, I will check.

The Gatekeeper (15:10.721)
Yeah, check John 140. We're going to be there anyway.

Dinkleberg (15:13.931)
I'm not gonna run your errands for you.

The Gatekeeper (15:17.183)
So, yes, so Philip, I'm actually proud that you guys did not say, baptize the eunuch. I thought we were gonna throw that out.

Caesar Of The West (15:28.43)
Different guy.

The Gatekeeper (15:29.291)
It's a different guy. Tommy paid attention in Sunday school. That's right. But we're going to find out later on that different guy causes a significant amount of problems for historians. So let's see here. We've got, of course. Yeah.

Dinkleberg (15:43.094)
Can I interrupt real quick? Thank you. It was Nathaniel that Jesus saw under a fig tree, but he told Nathaniel, before Philip called you when you were under the tree, I saw you. And that was what amazed Nathaniel. And he was like, Jesus is definitely the son of God.

The Gatekeeper (16:00.414)
Yeah, fun fact, Nathaniel's also the one that says, nothing good comes out of Galilee.

Dinkleberg (16:07.275)
Look didn't say it was perfect, okay? I just said tree. And I was right.

The Gatekeeper (16:09.473)
He was under a tree. Yeah, he was. So if you are listening in any form of capacity that you can pull up a Bible, so i.e. if you're just on the treadmill, open up John 1.

We're gonna read John 1.

The Gatekeeper (16:31.617)
Versus 40 here.

Caesar Of The West (16:34.828)
Meanwhile, while you look that up, I'm just crushing these wings and I have it on mute and it keeps saying trying to talk.

Dinkleberg (16:41.387)
Some loud wings bro, crunchy wings.

The Gatekeeper (16:42.645)
He's not.

The Gatekeeper (16:47.073)
So Philip is called very early. And you see, yeah, go to 43. Next stage, he decided to go to Galilee. He found Philip and said to him, follow me. Now, Philip was from Bethsaida, city of Andrew and Peter, which is the only reason we think he was a fisherman, John Simon. But great guess. I give you kudos. This is the only thing that indicates he was a fisherman. So.

Dinkleberg (17:12.223)
I always had a pretty good suspicion that he was a fisherman.

The Gatekeeper (17:15.565)
yeah. Philip found Nathaniel and said to him, we have found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph. Verse 46, Nathaniel said to him, can anything good come out of Nazareth? Philip said, yeah, boy. No, he said, come and see. Yeah, boy. That's the Taylor translation of the Greek. He says, come and see. So anyway, we see some.

Caesar Of The West (17:31.167)
Yeah, boy!

The Gatekeeper (17:40.437)
Interesting things about Philip here early on as we're introduced to him in the gospel of John We don't see him in the other gospels So maybe John thought Philip was important enough and neglected enough as he came along later and wrote that he wanted to Make sure Philip got some attention Anyway Philip clearly sees Jesus very early and he references Old Testament

found him of whom Moses and the law and also the prophets wrote. So he recognized prophetic authority. So Philip's got a good head on his shoulders, right? He's starting good. He's starting good. Philip makes also an appearance at the feeding of the 5,000 in John 6. Jesus asks him about food. I don't want to misquote the Bible, so I'm just going to flip on over to John 6 here.

Give the listeners that are following a long time if they want. And we're in the ESV. in John 6, verse 6, verse 5, Jesus said to Philip, where are we to buy bread so these people may eat? He said this to test him, for he himself knew what he would do. Philip answered him. Here's our boy. 200 denarii worth of bread would not be enough for each of them to get a little. So Philip failed the test. It's all right, Philip.

Dinkleberg (19:01.661)
Hmm.

The Gatekeeper (19:02.806)
But we see Philip again and we reference this story in John 12. We're not going to read it, but this is when Andrew and Philip.

evangelize to the Greeks. So we got some. So so we see Philip do good. Now, lastly, our last sign of Philip is John 14. And then Philip, which verse is this? Only 14, eight, I think. Philip speaks up and says, Lord, show us the father and it is enough for us. And.

Caesar Of The West (19:40.106)
Such a good line.

Dinkleberg (19:41.227)
That's a good, yeah, I think that made up for his previous foibles.

The Gatekeeper (19:44.629)
No, this one was not good, guys, because Jesus rebukes him for this. Because he's telling, he's asking for like a theophany at the Last Supper, so he doesn't get it. But Jesus gently rebukes him. So we kind of have, that's right. So we have this like, you know, flippy flop.

Dinkleberg (19:51.083)
What are you rebuke'ing for? Why you- wh- why- come?

Caesar Of The West (20:01.396)
I see. I see. Okay, so gently rebuke us then.

Dinkleberg (20:07.733)
Dang.

Caesar Of The West (20:09.101)
You

The Gatekeeper (20:12.852)
introduction to Philip in the Gospel of John. So interesting guy, right? Interesting guy, not mentioned in the synoptics, mentioned a large amount in John, much more than some of the other disciples. So there is a, there's a big problem with Philip. As I mentioned earlier, Philip is also the name of a certain evangelist.

Dinkleberg (20:19.114)
Right.

Caesar Of The West (20:19.374)
Right.

The Gatekeeper (20:42.196)
and Deacon. Philip. What? Nani?

Dinkleberg (20:43.541)
What's his name?

The Gatekeeper (20:49.58)
So Luke and Acts makes it pretty clear that they're separate. But history gets really messy. And so there's three positions on Philip. And I will try to summarize them the best. As everybody hopefully remembers, we are pulling from Sean McDowell's republished dissertation, The Fate of the Apostles.

So I would highly recommend picking that up if you want to have something to browse. This book alone, the price tag, I think it was like $40 for the digital copy. So it's steep. But it is so worth it to be able to find some of the early sources that we have. Like Acts of Peter, I wouldn't have known to look in Acts of Peter when we're hearing the crazy story about the talking dog, if you remember that episode.

Dinkleberg (21:41.835)
Well, people wouldn't have to now because they're listening to this. So why would they buy that? They could put that $40 into buying me a coffee.

The Gatekeeper (21:46.866)
it's true. I bought it for you guys. If you say don't! my gosh.

Caesar Of The West (21:56.748)
This ad has been brought to you by Stand to Reason or whoever it is that Sean McDowell

Dinkleberg (22:01.034)
Hahaha

The Gatekeeper (22:03.074)
I'm just, I'm just, I'm just trying to give credit where credit's due. Anyway, McDowell summarizes the three positions pretty good. Position one, the two Phillips were blended in early church. So the earliest reference we have to Philip from non-canonical sources is Papias.

Dinkleberg (22:04.864)
Zondervan Publishing House thanks you for this donation.

The Gatekeeper (22:32.36)
And he, we have Eusebius quoting Papias, and this is what Papias said. If then anyone came who had been a follower of the elders, I questioned him in regard to the words of the elders, what Andrew or what Peter said or what was said by Philip or by Thomas or by James or by John or by Matthew or by any other of the disciples of the Lord.

So Eusebius, when was Papias was? I want to say second century. Sorry, mid-second century. Happiest date of birth. I'll get that for you real quick. I should have had that. this would have been early second century. So this is early, early. OK.

Caesar Of The West (23:04.524)
What, so what year was that? Roughly.

The Gatekeeper (23:31.252)
Eusebius also reports that Papias personally heard miraculous stories from the daughters of the apostle Philip who lived at Heriopolis. So that's our first reference. Now let's look at the tradition claim before we dive any further. I Googled.

Like, martyrdom of Philip, of the apostle, I was specific. I googled martyrdom of Philip the apostle. And one of the first things that popped up was a todayscatholic.org article. OK. So I feel like if we're trying to see what tradition claims, what the general populace.

Dinkleberg (23:58.134)
Mm-hmm.

Dinkleberg (24:05.612)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (24:23.382)
thinks that's aware of church history. feel like today's catholic.org high traffic website is going to give you what people think. Right. Fair. OK. So they say, like many of the apostles, St. Philip was born in Bethsaida fishing village on the Sea of Galilee in Israel. There you go, John Simon fishing. Tradition says St. Philip preached in Greece and was crucified upside down.

Dinkleberg (24:34.198)
there.

Dinkleberg (24:44.812)
Mmm.

The Gatekeeper (24:49.858)
at Hippiopolis under the persecution of Roman Emperor Domitian. So Hippiopolis is a city in Turkey, famous for its fantastic rock formations and hot springs. And then it's an article on Hippiopolis and the temple. But there you go. That is the tradition claim. Philip is crucified upside down in Hippiopolis. OK, we're going to look at where that comes from.

Caesar Of The West (25:10.19)
crucified upside down.

Dinkleberg (25:15.872)
just like Peter.

The Gatekeeper (25:17.282)
So the first position is Eusebius, because Eusebius goes and writes more on, can you guys hear that? They're coming. Getting sweaty. Getting sweaty doing church history. OK, so Eusebius actually goes on to write a few more things about Philip.

Caesar Of The West (25:28.706)
Yeah, they're coming for you, dude. You should log off.

Dinkleberg (25:31.22)
Yeah, should we pause the episode?

The Gatekeeper (25:44.111)
And I hate to say it, Eusebius comes in so clutch for us all the time, but this is he very clearly gets confused about which Philip he's writing about. This is McDowell's words, page 211 here. It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that Eusebius has confused traditions regarding the two Phillips, since clearly Eusebius believes that all three of the quotes he included in ecclesiastical history

Dinkleberg (25:56.78)
Hmm.

The Gatekeeper (26:13.568)
refer to Philip the Apostle.

Dinkleberg (26:16.94)
Ugh, makes things kind of sticky.

Caesar Of The West (26:17.784)
shade.

The Gatekeeper (26:18.742)
Shh. I know and you see, it's just such a hard worker boy and you know, we don't all bat 1000. We all miss some. So like I said, position one two Phillips were blended in early church. That makes it really hard to know which one's talking about which. So position two is that there's two Phillips and they both have daughters. That's one of the distinctions. And then position three is there's actually only one Philip. Which?

Dinkleberg (26:28.044)
Hmm.

Dinkleberg (26:46.1)
Okay.

Caesar Of The West (26:49.9)
Meaning that the Philip that they chose to be a deacon is the same guy who is also an apostle? Okay, that seems not plausible.

The Gatekeeper (26:52.519)
huh. Yeah.

Yes, or and it's also that Luke invented a fictional character named Philip, which is also Yeah, it's just a

Dinkleberg (27:04.864)
Sounds about right.

Caesar Of The West (27:08.642)
Phillips like, they're all struggling to like take care of things. They're supposed to be preaching and Phillips like, guys, I actually kind of like doing dishes.

Dinkleberg (27:17.676)
He's a humble guy.

The Gatekeeper (27:19.126)
Philip, commissioned Jesus commissioned to you. Yeah.

Caesar Of The West (27:21.39)
Can you put my, can you put my name on that list?

He's like, actually, think, I think Jesus said that I could do dishes.

The Gatekeeper (27:29.461)
I think Jesus was fine with this.

Dinkleberg (27:29.708)
Here's the thing, a good pastor shouldn't be above busting some suds, you know what saying? So shout out to Philip. A good apostle is also a good deacon. Write that down.

The Gatekeeper (27:36.502)
That's right.

Caesar Of The West (27:37.506)
That's what I've always said.

Dinkleberg (27:47.734)
Thank you, Taylor.

The Gatekeeper (27:47.788)
So.

The moment of Alexandria is when we get the first account of his martyrdom because you see be his claims that Philip died of old age.

Well, Eusebius is quoting Heraklion or whatnot, that he died of old age.

Dinkleberg (28:06.284)
Mm-hmm.

Caesar Of The West (28:08.992)
And is this the same? So they're thinking then of the Philip who the tradition then is also that he goes to Ethiopia and dies of old age there, like this is the same.

The Gatekeeper (28:17.954)
I don't know. No, no, no, that was Philip the evangelist. That's why that's why you see.

Dinkleberg (28:21.889)
Hmm.

Caesar Of The West (28:25.004)
Right. And, and you see bias.

Dinkleberg (28:29.004)
interesting.

The Gatekeeper (28:29.888)
He got confused. So,

Caesar Of The West (28:32.694)
Right. That's what I was asking. So did Eusebius think that Philip the Evangelist was the same guy?

The Gatekeeper (28:38.37)
I don't think Eusebius talks about the Ethiopia part. So anyways, Clement of Alexandria in Stromata four, here's the Heraklion quote. So Heraklion is the earliest that we have to Phillips Martyrdom. And this is the quote, that there is a confession by faith and conduct and.

Caesar Of The West (28:42.808)
Okay.

Dinkleberg (28:43.507)
weird. Okay.

Dinkleberg (29:01.484)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (29:07.442)
One with the voice, the confession that is made with the voice and before the authorities is what the most reckoned the only confession, not soundly and hypocrites also can confess with this confession. But neither will this utterance be found to be spoken universally for all the saved have confessed with the confession made by the voice and departed of whom are Matthew, Philip, Thomas, Levi and many others. So he's listing off.

people that die of old age. This is also one of the points that kind of the claims of Matthew dying or being murdered are also suspect. But yes, so Matthew, Philip, Thomas, and Levi in that list. So Philip.

Oh my gosh, am I confusing myself here? No, no, no, no, no. That's old age as well. That's old age as well. OK, I'm not confusing myself. We have a couple sources that are kind of early that claim he was crucified. Hippolytus on the 12 wrote that Philip preached in Phrygia and was crucified in Heriopolis with his head downward at the time of Domitian and was buried there.

Dinkleberg (30:26.796)
The Gatekeeper (30:27.458)
Mm-hmm. And that is

Dinkleberg (30:30.496)
Harryopolis.

The Gatekeeper (30:33.474)
of Rome is dated, yeah, third century is when that would have been,

Caesar Of The West (30:41.934)
Doesn't Harryopolis sound like a neighboring town and cloudy with a chance of meatballs?

Dinkleberg (30:46.728)
I gonna say, it sounds like a Dr. Seuss town. I just got in from Harryopolis!

Caesar Of The West (30:50.476)
Yeah.

The Gatekeeper (30:50.582)
Herey. I'm, I'm, herey-opolis. I don't, I think I'm pronouncing it fine, but I don't know. So he, yeah. So you have Hippolytus making that claim that he, he's crucified upside down under Domitian persecution. We've referenced this source before, the apostolic acts of the, of Abdias, where this book 10 says Philip goes to herey-opolis.

To battle the Ebionites, he marries, has two daughters who become evangelists in their own right. This source says, rather than face martyrdom by crucifixion, he dies naturally, aged 87.

Caesar Of The West (31:33.55)
So he had daughters in this tradition, he had daughters after the resurrection and all of that, which is really interesting because I've always, I don't know why, I've always imagined Peter, for example, having children concurrent with Jesus' ministry. So that's kind of interesting. I'm just imagining being born into a house where that's the stories that your dad tells, you know? Like was an apostle for...

The Gatekeeper (31:40.898)
Mm-hmm.

Dinkleberg (32:00.161)
Hmm.

The Gatekeeper (32:01.878)
Yeah, I.

Caesar Of The West (32:03.138)
Jesus.

Dinkleberg (32:04.298)
Is there a chance that maybe he was pretty young while he was an apostle and maybe like that's why he didn't have his family didn't have children while during Jesus's ministry?

The Gatekeeper (32:14.87)
Well, have you heard? Getting sleepers here and you need to wake up. Have you heard the like the old preacher joke of Jesus was the first youth pastor?

You never heard that Tommy? you heard that one? Okay, well, the joke is that Jesus is the first used pastor because he the apostles were young. Peter, Peter was. Well, it's because they're all goobers. So they're young, they're young goobers and.

Caesar Of The West (32:37.805)
Yeah.

Dinkleberg (32:38.998)
That's the joke.

Caesar Of The West (32:47.534)
Well, and just based off the fact that we know, like what was that average lifespan then was probably what, 20 years less than it is now, yeah. And so we know that John, for example, was alive well into the 60s, maybe even into the early 70s. Same thing with James, was, James would have been a younger brother.

Dinkleberg (32:56.172)
Maybe 60s?

The Gatekeeper (33:07.49)
Maybe even later,

Caesar Of The West (33:16.256)
of Jesus. And so yeah, these guys would have been probably little boys, you know, teenagers when Jesus is calling them. Some of them. Maybe not all of them.

The Gatekeeper (33:27.158)
Yeah, late teens, right?

Dinkleberg (33:27.432)
Mm-hmm. Sure, sure.

Caesar Of The West (33:29.698)
I don't know how old a tax collector would be, but something tells me that there may be... that guy's not. Yeah. Yeah. Pay off his donkey.

Dinkleberg (33:32.876)
It's like his summer job. He's just using it to pay off his car.

The Gatekeeper (33:38.208)
Yeah. So it's pretty crazy to think about Jesus handing quite literally the keys to the kingdom, as they say, over to this group of very young men.

Dinkleberg (33:41.095)
Yeah

Caesar Of The West (33:52.206)
Well, it would kind of fit too with the pattern of an older man, even though Jesus was only around 30 when he starts his ministry. It would fit the pattern of an older rabbi. These younger men who were training in his school of theology, so to speak, called him rabbi.

So it would make sense that the men that he's calling would be in the age where they would be still sitting under a rabbi's instruction.

The Gatekeeper (34:22.398)
Yeah. So it all makes sense. It's just cool to think about. Right now, don't, myself included, and maybe I need to really rethink this, it's, you well, they're too young. We can't give them that responsibility. Well, Jesus challenges that. So we have a martyrdom account for Philip in.

Dinkleberg (34:28.557)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (34:51.85)
The Acts of Philip.

And I am going to summarize the martyrdom account for acts of Philip. And then we're going to read another story from the acts of Philip. And you guys get to decide if this is a good source or not.

Dinkleberg (35:06.935)
Okay.

Caesar Of The West (35:12.214)
You decide.

Dinkleberg (35:12.365)
I'm Alright, I've got my judges cap on.

The Gatekeeper (35:14.174)
Okay. All right. So in chapter 15 of the Acts of Philip, Philip enters Harryopolis.

Dinkleberg (35:23.733)
I don't think it's Harry-opolis. Is it H-I-E? Stop yawning, bro. Come on. Gosh, this is your topic. Wake up. You're disrespecting yourself. Have some respect. My gosh. It is a joke. It's Hier-opolis. It's I-E. H-I-E-R-opolis.

Caesar Of The West (35:33.614)
so disrespectful.

The Gatekeeper (35:37.026)
I'm sor- I'm sor- I'm sorry.

Caesar Of The West (35:51.086)
man, John came with the receipts.

Dinkleberg (35:52.043)
Harryopolis!

I'm sorry that that last yawn sent me over the edge you just

The Gatekeeper (35:59.459)
I'm sorry. I should have had some caffeine man, but now it's too late if I have caffeine now I won't sleep and I gotta go to Georgia tomorrow. I gotta go to Georgia. All right here op a list We got a lady named Nikonora and she's the wife of the pro console don't you love how all these stories just always involve pro consoles and kings and rulers

Caesar Of The West (35:59.566)
You

Dinkleberg (36:06.747)
do some jumping jacks

The Gatekeeper (36:27.968)
and apparently they're wives anyway. Nicanora became a believer after Philip's preaching. And so instead of what we read in Andrew's account where she decides to become celibate, this one just tells her husband to repent from worshiping idols.

Dinkleberg (36:34.445)
Hmm.

Hmm.

The Gatekeeper (36:54.582)
So she just goes for it. She just goes for it. Mm-hmm. Well, he gets angry. And then he demands that Philip, and then Bartholomew is with him, are tortured for their deception. And he says this. And he ordered Philip to be hung up and his ankles pierced through, and that iron instruments of torture be brought and passed through his heels, and that he be hung head downward before the temple on a tree.

Caesar Of The West (36:55.341)
all right

Dinkleberg (36:56.214)
Reasonable?

Dinkleberg (37:08.268)
Okay.

The Gatekeeper (37:22.572)
Okay, so then the Apostle John appears in the story and the people attempt to kill John. Philip lashes out in anger and says, I'm gonna kill all of you. And he curses the people, which results in the earth opening up and swallowing everything.

Dinkleberg (37:25.837)
Dinkleberg (37:34.487)
Mm-hmm.

Dinkleberg (37:43.027)
everybody? Including Philip?

The Gatekeeper (37:43.938)
Yeah.

Yeah, and it says seven. No, no, no, no, no, the pagan temple that he's near. And about 7000 men, women and children all get swallowed up with the temple.

Dinkleberg (37:53.29)
Okay.

Caesar Of The West (38:00.044)
You're losing me.

Dinkleberg (38:00.184)
Oof, okay.

The Gatekeeper (38:01.602)
The Lord appears and then, you know, tells Philip, you returned evil for evil. And he bars him from paradise for 40 days.

And then he gives a speech on the cross and then gives up a spirit and dies.

Caesar Of The West (38:17.409)
Okay.

Dinkleberg (38:22.605)
so he makes him stay on the cross upside down for 40 days.

The Gatekeeper (38:25.89)
No, no, no, no, no, he dies. He dies after Jesus yells at him. And then, yes. And then after 40 days, Jesus appears in the form of Philip. And he gives instructions to Bartholomew and a new character that we're going to meet in a moment named Maryamnee, who some scholars think might be representing Mary Magdalene. And so Jesus appears in the form of Philip and tells them where to go next.

Dinkleberg (38:29.217)
Nobody's just a ghost. Yeah.

Caesar Of The West (38:29.558)
He just spends a little time and chill.

Dinkleberg (38:48.161)
Okay.

Caesar Of The West (38:53.486)
That story got worse and worse

The Gatekeeper (38:55.778)
So here's the thing. Remember, remember, just because these stories are absolutely insane doesn't mean there's a grain of truth in them, right?

Dinkleberg (38:57.185)
Yeah, I didn't...

Dinkleberg (39:05.942)
Right.

Caesar Of The West (39:06.008)
Doesn't mean there's not a grain of truth? Is that what mean? Like you think there is a grain of truth or you're saying there's no grain of truth?

The Gatekeeper (39:08.641)
No, it doesn't.

The Gatekeeper (39:14.356)
I'm saying there could be a grain of truth.

Caesar Of The West (39:17.912)
Yeah.

Dinkleberg (39:18.733)
It's like, just cause this story sounds crazy doesn't mean it's not completely made up.

The Gatekeeper (39:24.458)
Not completely made up, right.

Dinkleberg (39:26.445)
That's what you said

The Gatekeeper (39:28.8)
No, I don't know. All I'm saying is it doesn't necessarily discount it.

Dinkleberg (39:35.917)
Correct, correct, yes. There could be something, yeah, maybe there was some pro console's wife who really did convert and all that. Okay, alright, what's the second story?

The Gatekeeper (39:39.842)
Correct.

The Gatekeeper (39:47.467)
So I've got this is a juicy one. This is so good. Dude, this is chapter eight of Acts of Philip, which I should tell you guys is dated to this super fascinating discovery. like the 1970s, archaeologists were like, they found this temple and they're going through it and they find a ton of documents. And one of the things they find is the Acts of Philip and the way they're able to use.

Dinkleberg (39:50.805)
Okay, that's crazy that this is the juicy one.

Dinkleberg (39:57.055)
Alright, alright.

The Gatekeeper (40:14.582)
the language and the wording to say, okay, we think that this is about fourth century. So outside of the realm of living memory, but remember we have been talking a lot about what's happening in the fourth century. Cappadocian fathers, fourth century, Athanasius, fourth century. So this was written around that time. And I would love for the guy that wrote this to talk to one of the Greggs. Okay, chapter eight, entitled

Dinkleberg (40:16.814)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (40:43.072)
Where in the kid and the leopard in the wilderness believed.

Where in the kid and the leopard in the wilderness believe.

Okay, so they all set out for the land of Afani. Afiani, Afiani, there you go. Now all of them is Philip Bartholomew and Mary Ann Me. And when they came to the wilderness of dragons, Lo, I like where this is going, Lo, a great leopard came out of a wood on the hill and ran and cast himself at their feet.

Caesar Of The West (41:14.318)
Aw yeah.

The Gatekeeper (41:24.466)
spoke with a human voice. I worship you, servants of the divine greatness and the apostles of the only begotten Son of God. Command me to speak perfectly.

Caesar Of The West (41:38.478)
So already this sounds like the kind of thing that the Desert Fathers would come up with.

Dinkleberg (41:45.207)
Honestly, yes.

The Gatekeeper (41:47.788)
Well, were they writing fan fiction for the apostles or were they just writing clever allegories?

Dinkleberg (41:53.43)
No, they were writing about themselves mostly.

Caesar Of The West (41:53.516)
No, I mean they had these like, they had these like, they had these crazy like visions and they like fought demons with their hands and stuff.

The Gatekeeper (41:55.582)
Hahaha!

The Gatekeeper (42:03.062)
Okay.

Dinkleberg (42:03.086)
No, 100%. The only difference is they were just like, nah, that was me, dog. That was 100 % me with that sea dragon. Okay, all right. So Leopard, just having a conversation. Valley of Dragons. Wilderness of Dragons, thank you. Okay. All right, so what's the response?

The Gatekeeper (42:06.762)
I'm

Caesar Of The West (42:07.672)
Hahaha.

The Gatekeeper (42:17.748)
In the wilderness of dragons, yes. Okay, and this, so Philip said, in the name of Jesus Christ, speak. And the leopard took perfect speech and said, hear me, Philip, groomsmen of the divine word. Last night I passed through the flock of goats over against the mount of the she-dragon, the mother of snakes, and seized a kid. And when I went into the wood to eat, after I had wounded it,

It took a human voice and wept like a little child to me, saying to me, leopard, put off thy fierce heart and the beast like part of thy nature and put on mildness for the apostles of the divine greatness are about to pass through this desert to accomplish perfectly the promise of the glory of the only begotten son of God.

Caesar Of The West (43:08.172)
I like how the leopard starts talking to him and he's just like, get those marbles out of your mouth son.

Dinkleberg (43:14.092)
Yeah, he's like, could you clean up your accent a little bit for me? I'm having trouble understanding.

The Gatekeeper (43:14.498)
No, remember, the leopard asks for... the leopard asks to get the marbles out.

Caesar Of The West (43:23.297)
Okay, okay.

Dinkleberg (43:23.404)
Leopard's like, ra ra ra ra ra ra. Philip's like, what? What are you saying?

The Gatekeeper (43:26.466)
I wonder if that's how the early readers would have like interpreted the story, but he they didn't know how to write. So they yeah. Meow meow meow meow meow. And the goat and the little goat kid that they have.

Caesar Of The West (43:34.19)
What's that? Yeah.

Dinkleberg (43:36.654)
Meow meow meow meow!

Caesar Of The West (43:40.6)
Johnny fell down the well?

Caesar Of The West (43:48.91)
That's pretty good.

The Gatekeeper (43:49.815)
Thanks. Damn. All right. At these words of the kid, I was perplexed and gradually my heart was changed and my fierceness turned to mildness and I did not eat it. And as I listened to its words, I lifted up my eyes and saw you coming and knew that ye were servants of the good God. So I left the kid and came to worship you.

Dinkleberg (43:50.232)
Just another Tuesday.

The Gatekeeper (44:14.218)
And now I beseech thee to give me liberty to go with thee everywhere and put off my beast-like nature.

Caesar Of The West (44:22.2)
some more like a Francis of Assisi type beat, right?

Dinkleberg (44:22.382)
Hmm.

Little bit. Yeah, little bit. I can hear it.

The Gatekeeper (44:25.986)
This is proto. This is proto San Francis of Assisi. But don't worry guys, it gets better. And Philip said, where is the kid? And he said, it is cast down under the oak opposite. Philip said to Bartholomew, let us go and see him that was smitten, healed and healing the smiter. And at Philip's bidding, the leopard guided them to where the kids lay. Philip and Bartholomew said, now.

Dinkleberg (44:31.118)
Yeah.

Dinkleberg (44:34.967)
Okay.

The Gatekeeper (44:54.046)
know we of a truth that there is none that surpass surpasseth thy compassion jesu lover of man for thou preventest us and dost convince us by these creatures to believe more and earnestly fulfill our trust now therefore lord jesu christ come and grant life and breathe and secure footing to these creatures that they may forsake their nature of beast and cattle and come into

tamedness and no longer eat flesh, nor the kid the food of cattle, but that men's hearts may be given them and they may follow us wherever we go, and eat what we eat to thy glory and speak after the manner of men glorifying thy name.

Dinkleberg (45:41.218)
So they just, he just turned them into people.

The Gatekeeper (45:44.469)
Yeah, so let me finish, I got a few more sentences. Let me finish and then let me talk about it. Because this is, I don't wanna throw shade if the saints in heaven can hear us and the guy who wrote Acts of Peter's listening. I don't wanna throw shade at your stories, man, but that dog was ridiculous, right? The dog story was insane. This, however, has a lot more going on in allegory.

Dinkleberg (46:04.302)
Hmm.

Dinkleberg (46:08.27)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (46:14.23)
And I think there's more worth talking about. And this is a verse 100 of chapter eight. And in that hour, the leopard and kid rose up and lifted up their four feet and said, we glorify and bless thee that hast visited and remembered us in this desert and changed our beast-like and wild nature into tameness and granted us the divine word and put in us a tongue and sense to speak and praise thy name for greatest thy glory.

and they fell and worshiped Philip and Bartholomew and Mary and me and all set out together praising God.

Caesar Of The West (46:48.226)
Very Narnian.

The Gatekeeper (46:49.3)
It's very Narnian. There's veneration of the saints. Now, what gets nuts, and we do not have time to do this, is in some copies of the Acts of Philip, like I was reading two, and I didn't have time to fully understand the sources of the two different ones. Point is, the leopard and the goat are at Philip's crucifixion, and they join the party.

Dinkleberg (46:50.23)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dinkleberg (47:20.044)
Like they, they participate.

Caesar Of The West (47:20.568)
What do mean and what way?

The Gatekeeper (47:22.25)
Like they're there witnessing it and people are like upset at them for being talking animals. It's a whole thing.

Dinkleberg (47:32.75)
Flipper just kind of crawls up and he's like, what are they doing to Philip?

Caesar Of The West (47:37.986)
mean you do know that you crucified the wrong guy if a leopard walks in on two legs and goes, HEY! DON'T DO THAT!

The Gatekeeper (47:45.364)
Knock it off! Knock it off!

Dinkleberg (47:48.446)
with his goat friend and they're like pals man that's that's wild

Caesar Of The West (47:50.432)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

So what do you think about this story, Taylor? You mentioned allegory. Do you think that there's something bigger being communicated here? Like it's not meant to be some fantastical literal story, but...

The Gatekeeper (47:57.058)
Ahi!

Dinkleberg (48:05.976)
taken literal? Yeah.

The Gatekeeper (48:07.642)
I don't think anybody with a lick of sense would believe this to be factual, right?

Dinkleberg (48:14.414)
How many of gotta think of who he's writing it to though?

The Gatekeeper (48:18.569)
Anybody with a lick of sense.

Dinkleberg (48:21.014)
Hey, I'm just saying, man, I don't know. mean, if it's meant to be allegorical, then we should look at it allegorically. But I want to like look at it with the author's intent.

Caesar Of The West (48:23.47)
So what do you think?

The Gatekeeper (48:24.98)
I think...

The Gatekeeper (48:32.8)
Right, and I...

Caesar Of The West (48:34.102)
It does sound like an allegorical story though.

Dinkleberg (48:36.713)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (48:36.81)
Yeah, I think this this strikes me as far more allegorical than the craziness we read and acts of Peter. Yeah, so I think that there's some fruit on the vine here for the this leopard that he was essentially committing a sin. He was he was killing an innocent little baby goat, right?

Dinkleberg (49:05.742)
Hmm.

The Gatekeeper (49:06.304)
And then he stops. Well, first off, the goat speaks prophetically to him. And then, and then, yes, and the leopard looks and sees them then. And then he goes and he repents. And he's made new in that repentance.

Caesar Of The West (49:13.294)
Yeah, these guys are gonna come along.

Dinkleberg (49:25.932)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (49:26.974)
And then he goes and brings them to the goat that he injured, who is then also made new and made whole. And when...

Dinkleberg (49:35.8)
made whole.

Caesar Of The West (49:39.158)
It's kind of like a Saul to Paul kind of thing.

The Gatekeeper (49:42.803)
Yeah, yeah. And remember when he says command me to speak perfectly. I think that's his way of saying make me not an animal.

Dinkleberg (49:51.502)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (49:52.255)
Mm-hmm. And put off thy fierce heart and the beast-like part of thy nature is one of the commands from Philip.

Dinkleberg (50:02.486)
It's interesting that they're presenting the leopard hunting as a sinful thing. it makes me think of the picture in Revelation of like the... where like the predators and the prey are like coexisting peacefully. It's like there is something within nature that makes violence a necessity to sustain ourselves, but in like the new creation that violence is no longer necessary.

The Gatekeeper (50:31.938)
You know how we keep just finding rabbit holes upon rabbit holes in the patristic era? I think, and I cannot prove it at the moment, I think that there was a vegetarian movement. Because we see sources at this time claiming that Matthew was a vegetarian, if you remember. Actually, the Matthew vegetarian claim was earlier than this. But point stands,

Dinkleberg (50:32.174)
Like, I don't know, that was interesting.

Dinkleberg (50:38.83)
Mm-hmm.

Dinkleberg (50:48.43)
Dinkleberg (50:57.454)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (51:00.108)
There's some other things that talk about Mary and me and or no, was Phillips daughters are supposedly vegetarians and they're actually substituting the Eucharist with vegetables and water. reformed reform Thomas glares.

Caesar Of The West (51:15.706)
my.

Dinkleberg (51:17.304)
Wait, what?

Dinkleberg (51:21.112)
That's so strange. It's weird. Yeah, that's not steak and wine. It's bread.

The Gatekeeper (51:24.425)
Yeah.

Caesar Of The West (51:24.568)
Why would you substitute the Eucharist? why would you, what?

The Gatekeeper (51:27.65)
I don't know. You got to remember, guys, I'm not an expert on that one. I'm not an expert on anything, but I can at least talk about this one. I did not have time to go down that rabbit trail, but you brought up the hunting scene as a sin. So there's a chance that this is written by somebody who is vegetarian or at the very least pescatarian or something. I don't know.

Dinkleberg (51:36.589)
that's really interesting.

Dinkleberg (51:43.854)
Yeah.

Caesar Of The West (51:52.718)
Well, to me it-

Dinkleberg (51:52.782)
passing on their veeg- vegan agenda.

Caesar Of The West (51:56.046)
To me it seems, I think your first angle seems the most likely, Taylor, where it's like the goat is like a Christian, it's like a Christian goat, and you have this predator that's persecuting it, and then the light of prophecy enlightens it, and then it repents and becomes a Christian too.

The Gatekeeper (52:18.976)
Yeah. Yeah. It's, I don't know. It's a lot more beautiful. If you want to read Axe of Philip, it's all available online. Just know that there's a couple different versions. And if you want this one, you need to go to gnosis.org. If you want to read.

Caesar Of The West (52:34.926)
There's gotta be a painting of this. I've gotta look this up. Isaiah 11 6 talks about...

The Gatekeeper (52:38.42)
If you find it, let me know. I'm going to move us into our

The Gatekeeper (52:45.704)
Yeah, that's the lamb and the lion.

Caesar Of The West (52:49.358)
Well, I think it actually is the leopard and the goat.

The Gatekeeper (52:52.362)
Leopard in the... Wait, no way. Did I miss that?

Dinkleberg (52:53.419)
wow, okay.

Caesar Of The West (52:57.4)
So Isaiah 11, 6, and the wolf will dwell with the lamb and the leopard will lie down with the young goat and the calf and the young lion and the fadling together. And a little boy will lead them.

The Gatekeeper (53:04.104)
my gosh.

Dinkleberg (53:05.176)
Dang.

The Gatekeeper (53:10.082)
I missed that. Okay, there you go. Then that's it's supposed to be the that is 100 % what it's supposed to be referencing. Good catch, Tommy.

Dinkleberg (53:20.566)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good grab.

The Gatekeeper (53:23.142)
Dude, that's about lying in the lamb. That's about lying in the lamb, Tommy. Yeah, read the next line. OK. All right, hey, so let's land the plane. Remember, we're investigating whether Philip did missionary work and whether Philip died a martyr. probably, which is Sean McStale's way of saying in academic speaking, yes, for sure, is he's. Yes, for sure, is he's. So Philip probably engaged in missionary work.

Caesar Of The West (53:24.654)
So there's.

Caesar Of The West (53:29.038)
You

Dinkleberg (53:29.774)
You

The Gatekeeper (53:51.459)
Martyrdom he ranks is less plausible than not and he says he has a couple of points. So first, earliest source, the Heraklion in natural death. First account of martyrdom doesn't appear until fourth century, which is active Philip, which is what we read. And then third, there's a mixture of later traditions that are even affirming both. This could be because of the confusion between which Philip is which.

The Gatekeeper (54:23.181)
But Eusebius does mention Philip ministering and dying in Hierapolis. And he doesn't mention that he died as a martyr. And then you, but you also have to remember Eusebius was confused about the Phillips.

Dinkleberg (54:37.134)
Mm-hmm.

The Gatekeeper (54:42.54)
Probably did not get crucified upside down and then call on the power of his apostles ship to smite 7,000 people and then get punished by Jesus for 40 days. Probably didn't happen.

Caesar Of The West (54:58.388)
I say that if there is some measure of truth to that, to me it seems unlikely that he would use a power of the Spirit to commit a sin that Jesus would rebuke him for. That part doesn't seem likely. I'm not opposed to the idea of him maybe calling down some sort of judgment. It's almost kind of Samson-esque, you know? In his dying breath he...

Dinkleberg (55:12.334)
Hmm.

The Gatekeeper (55:23.488)
Mm-hmm.

Caesar Of The West (55:26.848)
He draws on the power of the Spirit to crush God's enemies, I don't know. The whole sinning with the power of the Spirit bit doesn't make a lot of sense to me. can't think of...

The Gatekeeper (55:38.479)
No, no. And also the level and the magnitude. Yeah, you know, we see pretty quickly the stories go from Andrew told this guy's wife to stop sleeping with him and to be celibate, which is like, okay, probably not.

Dinkleberg (55:43.906)
The magnitude. Yeah.

The Gatekeeper (56:03.616)
but whatever, to now the feats of the apostles are escalating. And you see clearly veneration of the saints by fourth century here.

Caesar Of The West (56:15.694)
Another, I think, strike against it is that every single martyr we've ever talked about from like the first and second century and even beyond that, every single one of them that I can think of in some way forgives the people that are martyring them as they're dying. There's never like threats being made or anything like that. So doesn't really fit with the general pattern. Yeah.

Dinkleberg (56:34.306)
Hmm

Dinkleberg (56:39.193)
Take this.

The Gatekeeper (56:42.272)
I don't know, polycarb hits them with the away with the atheists.

Caesar Of The West (56:46.85)
Yeah, but...

The Gatekeeper (56:48.02)
I know, I'm just kidding, No, he doesn't. He was just a little sassy. But yeah, so there's Philip. I tell you what, listeners, I will, if you guys want, vote on the next apostle you want. The only rule is we can't have covered them. And it can't be, what's the last big boy? Paul. We're saving Paul till the end, people.

Dinkleberg (56:49.113)
doesn't smite him from heaven either, you know, bring a meteor down. Yeah.

Caesar Of The West (56:54.874)
Mm-hmm.

Dinkleberg (57:05.9)
Right.

Dinkleberg (57:10.703)
Let's see if we got Paul.

Caesar Of The West (57:10.84)
What about Thomas? Do we do Thomas? Did we do that one? We didn't listen.

The Gatekeeper (57:12.46)
We have not done Tommy.

Dinkleberg (57:13.871)
We haven't done John.

The Gatekeeper (57:16.94)
You're trying to figure out if he gets boiled or not.

Dinkleberg (57:20.303)
Of I am! And I want to see if Thomas does the... What's Thomas? Thomas gets speared or goes to India or something. That's right, yeah. Okay. There's also like Bartholomew and Nathaniel. Yeah.

The Gatekeeper (57:23.914)
Well, it's not up to you guys. It's up to the viewers. It's up to the viewers.

Caesar Of The West (57:25.898)
In, yeah, speared in India.

The Gatekeeper (57:35.724)
Yep. And Matthias. Yep. That's all the options we have left.

Dinkleberg (57:43.151)
Alright well listeners, know what to do. You're in charge. You get to tell Taylor where to go. Yeah, good job Tay. That was a good one.

The Gatekeeper (57:49.762)
That's right.

Thanks, sorry for yawning.

Caesar Of The West (57:52.878)
Yeah, I think.

Dinkleberg (57:55.395)
Don't apologize to me. Apologize to them. Yeah, and then God. But they're both right.

Caesar Of The West (57:58.146)
All just God.

The Gatekeeper (57:59.458)
Okay, those are different answers.

Caesar Of The West (58:03.15)
Ha ha ha.

The Gatekeeper (58:05.492)
Yeah. Well, thanks to our sponsors, Walmart.

Dinkleberg (58:11.739)
Alrighty gang well we appreciate you guys listening as always I'll be back next week with another great episode feel free to give us a rating a comment a review I don't know just just say a prayer for us Yeah, drop a dollar drop a dollar on the collection plate. I don't like that alright Stop it alright. Thanks guys. Bye

Caesar Of The West (58:23.97)
And if you want a haiku, if you want a haiku, you know what to do.

The Gatekeeper (58:30.828)
Can I start writing my own haikus that are 369?

Caesar Of The West (58:39.022)
Thank you.