121. Jerusalem has Fallen: The Rise of the Crusader States

July 15th, 1099. The walls of Jerusalem are breached by the Crusaders, and finally the holy city has been conquered by the Franks. To some, a long and arduous road was finally coming to an end. 

But for many more, things were just getting started. 

Join us as we talk about the rise and not-quite-yet-fall of the Crusader States, sometimes known as Outremer, consisting of the counties of Tripoli and Edessa, the principality of Antioch, and of course, the Kingdom of Jerusalem. 

Also, on a totally different note, how does Taylor pick what songs to lead at church? And why doesn't he like Chris Tomlin? Just kidding Mr. Tomlin, thanks for enjoying our show. 

Buy us a coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/chumphistory

Transcript

Jim Salmon (00:00.195)
Hey everybody, welcome to Church History for Chumps. My name is John Simon and I'm here with the president of the Chris Tomlin fan club, Taylor Treadway.

GOBBA GOOL (00:08.674)
That's what you got for me this week.

Jim Salmon (00:11.319)
I mean, are you gonna throw shade at the honorable Chris Tomlin?

GOBBA GOOL (00:13.908)
I know, but I don't. We actually did one of his songs today in chapel.

Jim Salmon (00:20.759)
I had a meaningful question. Actually, this is good segue. Well, I mean, I kind of said with myself here, but you've been a worship leader for a long time, right, Taylor?

GOBBA GOOL (00:29.77)
You know, I thought about it literally the majority of my life I've been involved in worship ministry.

Jim Salmon (00:35.851)
You've been a worship minister for 40 years? But no, I wanted to ask like who, cause you know, I think it's, even in our circles, we get a lot of like, you can't listen to these guys. They're all prosperity. these guys, you know, their churches are terrible. like where do you, where do you tell people to go for like the good old homegrown worship music?

GOBBA GOOL (00:39.088)
wow. No.

GOBBA GOOL (01:02.422)
Yeah, so this is a really good question you're asking and it's a massive problem right now in the worship world because there's a very real split. I think a lot of you have probably noticed this now in your congregation. So for a long time, your average evangelical Protestant church sort of just saying the same things with within reason. So,

Jim Salmon (01:07.747)
Mmm.

Jim Salmon (01:12.941)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (01:33.247)
You know that you're playing whatever Chris Tomlin did. You might throw in a nice little getties from, you know, something in Christ alone, right? And then you then you yeah, then you'll throw in a little mix of some hymns and that was kind of your standard thing. And now fast forward 2026 there are. Artists that certain churches won't touch that other churches only do. Etc, etc. So a lot of you guys.

Jim Salmon (01:41.182)
Ooh yeah, the old school stuff.

Jim Salmon (01:47.779)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (02:00.055)
Are these like the Bethels and the Elevations?

GOBBA GOOL (02:03.232)
Yes, Maverick. can't even keep track. I can't even keep track. So there is something called the worship initiative, which is from Shane and Shane's of music ministry. And they are trying, I think, to be a solid resource. I got to tell you, as a worship leader right now that doesn't have a lot of time, I almost

Jim Salmon (02:05.27)
Maverick, yeah, yeah.

Jim Salmon (02:13.291)
I've heard of that, yeah.

Jim Salmon (02:23.011)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (02:31.04)
I just have a list of artists that I pull from now that I know are good. So like Sovereign Grace, The Gettys, City of Light. That's it. No. Chris Tomlin. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (02:35.159)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (02:47.019)
Dude, I will give so many props to Shane and Shane. You and I used to walk in a circle that was very uptight in its reformed-ness and was Psalms only, exclusive Psalm-ity. If anyone could convince me to sing songs solely based on the Psalms, it would be Shane and Shane because their Psalms worship albums are freaking amazing. They're so good. They're so good.

GOBBA GOOL (03:10.21)
That's very good. You know what's funny? So when I was in Tucson, doing worship, Pastor Anthony at 11th Street, the church I'm at now has a little bit more vision for like specifically what he wants. But when I was doing worship in Tucson, I had the rule. If Shane and Shane did it, then that meant it was okay. And that was it. That was it was so safe for me. I just was like,

Jim Salmon (03:30.412)
Hmm.

Ha ha ha.

Jim Salmon (03:37.399)
Yeah. And they're not super uptight with it. They'll sing no longer slaves.

GOBBA GOOL (03:39.137)
No one can complain. No. Yeah, you know, Alan Parr, you know who that is? YouTuber? Yes. He's so he's Yeah, wow. Yes. I understand. No, that's how I describe him to him. He's like, I'm like, he's the black guy on YouTube that does the good.

Jim Salmon (03:49.216)
black dude yeah he's known for other he's known for other what that's how i relate to him okay yeah i'm surprised i said black before you did is really what happened

GOBBA GOOL (04:03.106)
The good videos. Well, also, but the thing is, is like my initial way that I think of him is he's a DTS graduate. And I'm like, that means nothing. That means nothing to anybody else on the planet. But anyway, Alan Parr was a worship leader for a while, and he did. He uploaded some videos of him singing and he loves Goodness of God. It's also written by Bethel.

Jim Salmon (04:10.435)
okay. He's a Dallas boy.

Jim Salmon (04:15.565)
Sure. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (04:22.338)
Mm-hmm.

that's a great song. Isn't that whole song just scripture though?

GOBBA GOOL (04:31.374)
Yeah, so here's the deal. Here's the deal. Everybody's got no, that's Carrie Job. The Lord bless the goodness of God. That's the blessing. Yeah. Goodness of God is the like, and I will sing of the goodness of God.

Jim Salmon (04:34.229)
Isn't that the Lord bless you and keep you song?

Jim Salmon (04:39.701)
What is that? that's the blessing. That's the blessing. I get those two mixed up. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (04:48.811)
I don't hate that song. Here's the thing, dude, like, is it a bummer that a lot of good music comes from maybe some of the most scandal-prone ministries? Yes, but it's still good music. And it's a conversation to be had, but I also don't want to be so strict, like, do you know who wrote that song? Like, I don't know. It's a nuance thing.

GOBBA GOOL (05:10.446)
Dude, so what I get told in this discussion is would you really want to do you first off? Do you want your people to like go and stumble upon Bethel and I'm like, okay first off my people are discipled enough to know that Bill Johnson's a heretic Okay, so I don't know about I don't know about your people second off They're like you

Jim Salmon (05:14.275)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (05:27.315)
Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (05:34.194)
Do you really want to be giving money to Bill Johnson? I'm like, No, but also I have no idea where my money goes when I like, buy a star. You want to shop at Target or buy a Starbucks. So

Jim Salmon (05:41.284)
shop at Target. Yeah. Yeah. No, that line of thinking kind of falls flat. And I also just have to say...

I lived in the fear of the shadow of the, what if people go here and then they stumble? You reference this movie. What if they watch that movie and they hear that person curse and now they curse all the time and in two years they're a drug dealer. It's like, dude, I can't like at a certain point you have to hold someone responsible, but also it's like if they go to a

GOBBA GOOL (06:06.882)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (06:14.76)
Bethel's worship page and they find some stuff that looks confusing, hopefully they'll come to me as their their minister.

GOBBA GOOL (06:23.308)
You know, I'm going to give, I don't think I've given Pastor Jack Scholl from Element City Church in Tucson. I don't think he's gotten a shout out. I asked him once many moons ago, said, hey, Pastor Jack, I need some wisdom. We're doing a lot of Bethel lately. And I said, and I wonder if it's too much. And I'm sure you see all the blog posts. And this was back when we were doing No Longer Slaves. We were doing a handful. We were doing more Bethel songs.

Jim Salmon (06:30.861)
Shout out.

Jim Salmon (06:48.109)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (06:52.684)
raise a hallelujah, things like that. And I remember he said, well, know, Taylor, I think the key is to not make doing Bethel songs part of your identity, like as a worship ministry. And I was like, dang. Yeah. Whatever. Sing a song if it honors the Lord. Because half of the hymns we like to sing are written by heretics anyway. So.

Jim Salmon (07:08.515)
Good word, good word, pastor.

Jim Salmon (07:21.567)
Hey dude, mean, I'll shout out some church that's doing something very different in my city, the Village Church. They just, they know, they don't sing a single song in their church if it's not written by one of their members. So all they do is, homegrown stuff. And it's a, it's a vibe. I'll tell you that it's a vibe.

GOBBA GOOL (07:39.79)
Yeah.

You know what's funny is that that sounds so kind of hipster-y, but the reality is is I could see some like old Baptist church from like 1789 being like, we don't sing anything from those people. We just write our own songs.

Jim Salmon (08:00.801)
Well, dude, it's like, if you talk to Pastor Eric, who's a really cool dude, I know he's not listening to this, but hey, Pastor Eric. Like, he really came up in like the Pacific Northwest emergent church vibe. So he's all about doing church differently. He just has navigated ministry well to not have the same fall offs that most of the emergent church dudes did.

GOBBA GOOL (08:23.15)
Yeah, like they're all heretics now.

Jim Salmon (08:26.455)
their own podcasts.

GOBBA GOOL (08:28.49)
right. Where they swear and talk about who they think Jesus is.

Jim Salmon (08:33.771)
See, I'm just grateful that we started our podcast before our Fall from Grace out of ministry. Because now whenever that Fall from Grace comes, we'll already have a platform. I'm just joking. No, no. Okay. I don't believe in the law of attraction,

GOBBA GOOL (08:45.102)
Can you not? Can you not speak that over us? Thank you. Hey, I'm curious. I do because I listen to Bethel music and I. So so guys, what do you think listeners be very curious? And remember.

Jim Salmon (08:56.513)
Yes, full circle, full circle. Well done.

Jim Salmon (09:04.524)
yeah. This would be honestly a dope full-on episode one day, but not today.

GOBBA GOOL (09:08.642)
This is a safe place to disagree. So if you think John and Taylor need to have a little more wisdom in our song choices, tell us. If you're like, I sing every Bethel song every day of my life, and I'm fine, tell us. And then, yeah, you could tell us on Instagram. You could shoot us a DM. You shoot us DM on Facebook. Or the Spotify comments are popping off. So.

Jim Salmon (09:12.108)
It is.

Jim Salmon (09:23.619)
And I'm fine.

Jim Salmon (09:35.395)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (09:35.99)
John, do we have any shout outs we need to do?

Jim Salmon (09:39.726)
Let's see, I was just like, yeah. Our boy Anthony, I just want to say, I appreciate all of the listeners who took French in high school and have been able to correct all of our terrible mispronunciations. No, I do. I want to learn. I want to learn. Our boy Anthony reminded us that Chartre, which is the birthplace of Mr. Fullbert.

GOBBA GOOL (09:50.924)
don't? I don't like- I don't appreciate that at all.

GOBBA GOOL (10:04.792)
Fulcher. Fulcher.

Jim Salmon (10:05.813)
Fulcher, that's right. It's pronounced, I'm not even sure if I want to say it on the air because it's essentially, see, we just got banned from Saudi Arabia again, Yeah, Fulcher of Chartre, which is not better than Chartre, if you ask me, but I didn't write French. So thank you, Anthony. We're much smarter now. Chatoy.

GOBBA GOOL (10:11.094)
shart.

GOBBA GOOL (10:23.306)
you last episode you hit it you hit it with the shots Wow.

Jim Salmon (10:29.239)
We got a few more today and I'm even more excited. LM also says you should do an entire episode in French and I think that's a bad idea. don't, thank you LM. Permission denied.

GOBBA GOOL (10:40.822)
Why, LM is like our little super fan. I've realized he basically gets referenced every episode.

Jim Salmon (10:47.363)
It kind of is, yeah. Maybe it's because I don't get the same weirdness. Because we have people who comment who have their full name listed. And I don't want to just be like, yeah, Dac Johnson. I don't want to say his name in every episode. Yeah. Even though he's the best Frenchman in our entire audience.

GOBBA GOOL (10:57.23)
Yeah, we don't want to... Yeah, we don't want to... We don't want to just dox Jackson Gagney every episode. Shout out Jackson Gagney!

That's right.

Jim Salmon (11:11.107)
grateful for that. Yeah, we're grateful for all you guys. We just love hearing from you. It's always a good time. I had a sweet conversation with Lucas who hit me up on my sub stack and he was asking about hospice chaplaincy, which was awesome because I have said this before and I'll say it again. I'd like to do a full chump talk about hospice chaplaincy one day, but dude, if you're in the ministry or you're ministry adjacent and you want to get into hospice chaplaincy, hit me up because I think if there need to be more sound Jesus loving believers,

who also care about people who are in hospice chaplaincy.

GOBBA GOOL (11:43.362)
Yeah, because if you don't go, weird blue-haired lesbian monks will. And got...

Jim Salmon (11:50.211)
Why did you have to say that?

GOBBA GOOL (11:55.788)
Am I wrong? Say it, John.

Jim Salmon (12:00.214)
There was this website I found that was like innovative chaplaincy. think it was called innovate chaplain. And there was one of the dudes, he was a bald guy. He was named Rick, but he had this long like native American robe on and he had like a master's in native American spirituality. And he talked about how he'd like been to all these Buddhist landmarks in the world. And I'm just like, bro, 95 % of the people

GOBBA GOOL (12:01.528)
Wait.

GOBBA GOOL (12:06.001)
no.

Jim Salmon (12:30.189)
who are dying are just like, I went to church growing up, know Baptists and Methodists, and then you walk in with your like monk chants and stuff and your prayer beads and dudes just like, please don't talk to me about dying.

GOBBA GOOL (12:43.82)
Yeah, that's right. Chaplains, you're needed. Well, guys, I can't believe we're here. They said it would never happen. Yeah, they said we couldn't do it.

Jim Salmon (12:48.844)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (12:54.893)
Did they?

They all told me we could, they told me I could do it. So we're talking to the wrong people, I guess. We did, yeah. We're at the, this is the epilogue of the first crusade, which is kind of amazing.

GOBBA GOOL (13:01.214)
Wow. Well, we did it. I did it.

That's right. This is like the summary episode.

Jim Salmon (13:11.617)
Yeah, and it's also really a bummer that Thomas isn't here. But I know Thomas is here in spirit. So actually, I'm going to just leave a quick moment of silence for Thomas to share what he has to say. Thomas?

GOBBA GOOL (13:16.106)
I know.

Jim Salmon (13:26.371)
Thanks, Thomas. Yeah. All right. But yeah, what were you going to say, Taylor? This the, kind of reminds me of something, doesn't it?

GOBBA GOOL (13:26.414)
Good word. Good word.

GOBBA GOOL (13:34.156)
This this is like the end of like black movies. Like, you know, like, yeah, like mama, mama J went to be with Jesus after her 97th birthday party. And then you know, boo boo boo boo got involved in gang violence and lost his life. Right.

Jim Salmon (13:37.933)
Yeah, like coach Carter.

Jim Salmon (13:45.283)
huh.

Jim Salmon (13:52.886)
Right, right. It's like Davon got a scholarship and graduated with a master's in communications and now he works for NASA.

GOBBA GOOL (14:00.032)
Right, and Darnell went on to play D1 football. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (14:05.601)
That's right, that's right. this is this is that so you guys already saw the title this episode This is the Crusader states or another word for it is Is out out reamer or out the mail which if we're French, yeah, we're starting up hot out reamer

GOBBA GOOL (14:20.109)
Whatever, just say it. Our pretentious little fans are going to correct it anyway, so just...

Jim Salmon (14:28.673)
Yeah, no, this is the story of the Crusader states and the Crusader counts and princes that led them the way I'm gonna kind of do this one is I'm gonna kind of just go through cut from kind of least important that's subjective but from smallest to biggest from all the princes and many of whom we've mentioned in previous episodes and tell you kind of the story what happens to them where they end up and then just kind of what the first like decade or so was like after the fall

of Jerusalem and yeah what's next there's a lot of to cover here too so I'm gonna get started here's my cold open Ray I'd like something that you'd hear outside a Parisian cafe on a fall day thanks Ray

Jim Salmon (15:20.259)
Calm then, soldiers of Christ, be of good cheer and fear nothing, but fight, I beseech you, for the salvation of your souls. If you should be slain here, you will surely be among the blessed. Already the gate of the Kingdom of Heaven is open to you. If you survive as victors, you will shine in glory among the Christians.

If however you wish to flee, remember that France is indeed a long distance away.

GOBBA GOOL (15:51.936)
You sound like

Jim Salmon (15:58.304)
Every time I tried to read that with a French accent, I just came across as Nigerian. So, it was really Nigerian. But I was like, you know, I'm going to run with it. Everyone's like, oh, this is so good. Well, mine are bad, but you're to hear them anyways.

GOBBA GOOL (16:03.957)
Yes, dude, yeah, you were Nigerian, yes.

GOBBA GOOL (16:12.461)
Okay, so when you do French, just think the soldiers on top of the wall.

Far in your general direction!

Jim Salmon (16:21.987)
dirty for me. I'll stick with Nigerian. That was a quote from Baldwin the first prior to the first battle of I didn't have my notes in place right here. Well, not AFSA shoot. Ray, we're gonna have to edit this out. This is embarrassing. I don't remember what it's called. But it might be it might be.

GOBBA GOOL (16:45.515)
No, you're... I think it's AFSA, bro.

Jim Salmon (16:51.587)
So you're probably listening to that quote and you're like, on a second, that doesn't make any sense. This is talking about soldiers gathering together and fighting. I thought we were done with all the fighting. Jerusalem fell. Everything should be should be done. Here's the thing. Here's the interesting thing about the Crusader states that we need to into consideration. What happened after Jerusalem fell?

was that you have these tiny little pockets of Latin territory. We've got a little land in Jerusalem. We've got a little bit of land in Antioch. And of course, as we're going to talk about, we've got a little land up north in Edessa. The problem is they are not by any means the majority of this population. And they're just surrounded by Muslims and Eastern Christians and Jewish tribes and communities. And so they're like...

This is, this is their... That's right. Honestly, three of three of them, honestly. They're gonna make enemies of just about everyone in this. So what we're gonna see is...

GOBBA GOOL (17:44.919)
Two of three of those are very unhappy with.

Jim Salmon (17:58.648)
The journey for the Latin presence in the Levant to be stable is a far cry from where we're at. So there's a lot lot of paving that needs to be done. So we're going to start with the first, probably one of the most important except for the fact that he kind of pulls a Tupac and dies immediately. This is Godfrey of Boyan. We already talked about him in Thomas's episode a few weeks back, so I won't beat too much to death. I'm just going to kind of go post 1099 fall of Jerusalem.

Thank

Godfrey is kind of known as the He's like the height of chivalry for all of these crusaders like a lot of them are gonna get kind of caught up in not necessarily conflicts But there's a lot of reports about their ego or they're gonna act recklessly or you know Someone like Boam on just got their eyes bigger than their stomachs but Godfrey always goes down as kind of this King Arthur figure who's just so good so pure so righteous and pious and

when they

GOBBA GOOL (19:00.557)
I he literally gave away everything he had, like tons of land and stuff before he went.

Jim Salmon (19:04.957)
Exactly, exactly. So when they approach him after Jerusalem falls and come to him and say, will you be the first king of the of kingdom of Jerusalem, Godfrey reportedly says, and again, I think some of this stuff might have been embellished, but reportedly says, I will not wear a crown of gold where my savior wore a crown of thorns.

GOBBA GOOL (19:29.096)
What?

Jim Salmon (19:29.943)
which is a heck of a phrase. So then they say, if you won't be the king, will you be the royal defender of the Holy Sepulcher? Which is just what we call in church world a rebrand. And he says, yes, I will. So he still ends up, but again, it's very important that Godfrey is seen as like this very pious, very like, he's the noble one. He's the one who's trying to stop all the savages from slaughtering civilians.

GOBBA GOOL (19:46.817)
That's great.

Jim Salmon (19:59.83)
during the massacre and stuff like that. He's the good guy. he's gonna serve, he's gonna basically just start getting the feet.

off the ground as far as the movement of the kingdom of Jerusalem. There's going to be one battle that he oversees, the Battle of Ascalon, where the Fatimid relief army, that's the remember the Fatimids were the ones who ruled Jerusalem briefly after taking it from the Seljuks. They're going to come back, kind of challenge them to a rematch, and Godfrey is going to clear it pretty decisively. The issue with Godfrey is that he just dies really fast. It's kind of funny because if you

look at if you look at the really devout frank reports they're all gonna say he was poisoned or it was some mysterious death we don't know what happened if you look at the muslim historians they're gonna say yeah we killed him he died in battle we shot him with an arrow most scholars right now are saying no i think the franks are probably right he wasn't poisoned but he probably had typhoid so that's what happens to him but he dies

And so he's going to kind of pass the throne along to Baldwin his younger brother, but we'll get to Baldwin in a second We're gonna move to some other kind of minor ish characters I'll move on now to Raymond of Toulouse Raymond of Toulouse. I think the more I read about him the more I've realized I actually kind of like him

I'm not going to say actually, I do kind of like him. He's an interesting guy. So I'll refresh you guys on what we'd shared about him in the past. So Raymond was the dude who back in Antioch, when they found the Holy Lance, which we think was just a sharp rock that they dug up because they, a couple of dudes had some visions and, you know, God's going to reveal this thing. It's the, that's the Holy Lance. Yeah. And so,

GOBBA GOOL (21:53.284)
they started digging and they said the first thing you find is the holy relic. So yeah.

Jim Salmon (22:01.481)
Raymond.

was trying to kind of you know he wasn't like the rest of the the kind of counts he was much older he was more established in his family he already kind of established some riches for himself in europe before he came and it's kind of the consensus that raymond was the most kind of religiously authentic of the crusaders and the reason for that one is because he really gets behind the holy lance and so he basically goes buddy buddy with the young

peasant prophet Peter Bartholomew who has all these visions of the lands and so he's gonna kind of stick his reputation on it and then after Antioch is victorious then of course there's a lot of like kind of skepticism about the lands all of a sudden Peter Bartholomew starts having some kind of wackadoodle visions and suddenly they're they're not totally on board so Raymond's reputation kind of suffers for that but one of the reasons for conflict with other crusaders

is that he didn't agree that the lands that they conquered should be made into individual townships. Like, so all of the quarreling that we're gonna see amongst all of the dudes we're gonna talk about, from Tancred to Baldwin to all these other dudes, they're all kind of like trying to claim these lordships, which is a very European thing to do. Raymond is like, look, we should have two options. We should, we should

submit these new territories under the influence of the Latin Church directly or we should do what we told Alexios the emperor of the Byzantine Empire. We should give them back to him. Nobody else thinks that they should do that. After Antioch everyone is pretty firmly in the you know forget the Greeks camp and Raymond is kind of the odd man out because he's like I really don't believe that we should be taking these places over as individuals. If this is

Jim Salmon (24:02.871)
holy crusade then we should be giving these places back to the churches and the Christians to whom they rightly belong.

So yeah, kind of admirable, I gotta be honest. I think that's kind of cool, kind of going up against the tide there. So believe it not, he's actually offered lordship over Jerusalem before Godfrey, but he denies it. And he says, you know, I just, not comfortable having an individual lordship over this town. And they give it to Godfrey and they have the whole back and forth there.

GOBBA GOOL (24:34.573)
you

Jim Salmon (24:35.715)
So again, he's he's not nearly as influential as the rest of these guys because he's just not playing ball He's just not playing politics. And like I said these other princes and counts. They just don't freaking like him They just don't think he's a very cool dude The one interesting thing is that he's the only one who remains in a healthy standing with Alexios the Byzantine Emperor So they're like they're like best pals. I just imagine them just chillin in the courts eating grapes together talking about

GOBBA GOOL (25:05.312)
I'm creams.

Jim Salmon (25:05.709)
and stuff like that. They're just having a good old time. And so while he's hanging out in Constantinople with Alexios, is word, so word has gotten back to Europe that...

that Jerusalem has fallen and there's all these men in Europe who had already made their commitments, who had kind of answered the call to fight in the crusade. But a lot of them either hadn't had the opportunity to go or some of them had deserted and had gone back to Europe after things kind of went sideways. So there's all these dudes really anxious to kind of start a second movement out there. And so Raymond's not like super

super excited to jump into this but he kind of gets voluntold by Alexios to oversee this rowdy group of Lombards who are really excited about going back going out there because one thing we're going to talk about in a few minutes is that Boamond the dude who famously stayed behind in Antioch to become the prince there he gets captured when he's fighting against Anatolia and even though Boamond is a Norman the Norman

and the Lombards are best pals and so all the Lombards are like we gotta freakin go down there and we gotta get our boy and we gotta free him and Raymond is like that is really not a good idea we just do not have the resources for that we're gonna get whooped if we do that but the Lombards were like no man we got this I remember all the Lombards have their hats backwards you know their shorts are like you know six inches high above the knee like they're wearing tank tops like they these guys are they're they're not listening to reason

GOBBA GOOL (26:31.04)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (26:43.265)
gosh.

Jim Salmon (26:50.2)
So

They do head down, they head into the Seljuk territory where Boamon's being held for ransom and they just get slaughtered. It is just an absolute nightmare. Raymond barely survives, flees back to Constantinople and at this point he's like, you know what? I just really want to set my sights on Tripoli. Tripoli is the final county, the final kind of estate of Crusader territory and he's like,

would just love to conquer this for the glory of the Lord and all that. So he's going to set himself up for a very, long siege that will last a very long time. And unfortunately, he actually will die before the city falls, but the city will in fact fall and his heirs would succeed and would take over Tripoli and it would go under Crusader territory. But he would die in 1105 before that happened. I think in 1109 was when it fell.

GOBBA GOOL (27:37.293)
Mmm.

Jim Salmon (27:51.407)
Yeah, interesting dude. Very unique compared to the rest and I respect that. I respect that. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (27:59.63)
I don't want to just keep make sure you keep saying the timeline because I'm like, I think everyone's aware that all of this goes back into the Muslims hands. we're trying, I think, I think, you know, trying to figure out the timeline of how quickly.

Jim Salmon (28:12.93)
Right.

Jim Salmon (28:18.893)
Sure, sure, yeah, so... Yeah, Tripoli...

Tripoli does stay with the Crusaders for a while. I think Tripoli might've even stayed the longest under Crusader control, more so than, yeah, cause I should've mentioned this before. So, Outremer, or should I say Outremel, the Crusader states are four territories. It's the Kingdom of Jerusalem, it is the Principality of Antioch, and then it's the counties of Edessa and Tripoli. And Tripoli is kind

GOBBA GOOL (28:33.207)
Fascinating.

GOBBA GOOL (28:49.59)
Okay.

Jim Salmon (28:54.629)
of sandwiched between Antioch and Jerusalem and then Odessa is kind of this little flap up north. So those are the four that we're going to be talking about. Yeah, sorry, sorry, gang. Sorry, listeners. All right.

GOBBA GOOL (29:06.413)
No, no, no, that's OK. And then Odessa is, from what I read, is the one that Alexios, the King of the East, does not care about having back. Or is he getting to the point? OK.

Jim Salmon (29:19.267)
Yeah, I think that's pretty true. I think that's pretty true. think...

Adessa, I don't have my map right in front of me, but Adessa is the one that yeah, Adessa actually when you look at it on the map, it doesn't border the Mediterranean. And I think, you know, just, just being a Greek, they, they, love the water, but also water means ports and ports mean trade and easy connection with Europe, which is really important. Adessa is kind of landlocked. So I could see Adessa not being as valuable. Um, so yeah, I think that checks out. All right.

GOBBA GOOL (29:44.225)
Right.

Jim Salmon (29:51.76)
The last of the minor characters, but someone who I feel like we just needed to give some closure to this guy. This is Stephen of Blois. So if you remember during our episode of Antioch, Stephen of Blois was the one who hilariously wrote a letter to his wife after the Crusaders successfully beat Nicaea saying, yeah, dude, we're gonna hit Antioch. I think we'll be in Jerusalem in like five weeks.

GOBBA GOOL (30:16.621)
And honey, I'll be home for Christmas. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (30:18.851)
That's right. And he was home for Christmas, but only because he deserted. But yeah, so he, you know, as we talked about Antioch is going to take eight months. It's going to be a grueling

GOBBA GOOL (30:26.135)
Yeah

Jim Salmon (30:34.115)
awful siege that is going to kill a lot of people and one of the problems is going to be deserters because morale is so tough and Stephen is actually going to desert back to Europe the day before the crusaders will take Antioch and and to add insult to injury not only is he going to desert and lose a ton of glory by doing that but on the way back he's going to run into Alexios and his reinforcement are

and say not worth it like just turn around that you're gonna you're gonna walk into a bloodbath it's not even worth it so not only does he leave he convinces the Greeks not to give them the reinforcements they desperately need so dudes kind of a walking L he goes back home and yeah there is kind of this reputation again like

GOBBA GOOL (31:16.685)
Mmm.

Jim Salmon (31:25.603)
If you're a crusader, it means that you answered the call, like you've chosen to take up the cross, like literally and figuratively. So if you deserted, it's kind of like you left Jesus high and dry. And there is a statement I read that

Stephen's wife was very, very critical of him having come back and she's constantly nudging him to get back on the battle lines. And she says, I would rather be the widow to a champion than the wife to a coward, which is just brutal. Just.

GOBBA GOOL (31:47.564)
GOBBA GOOL (31:59.884)
That's rough. Do we have this because he wrote this down?

Jim Salmon (32:03.779)
I don't know. Maybe he was telling some boys at the pub the night after. He was just torn up about it.

GOBBA GOOL (32:10.174)
I guess.

Jim Salmon (32:14.047)
so he would actually return. He would fight in the 1102 crusades to rescue Boamond with Raymond of Toulouse, who we just talked about in that horrible failed mission and barely escaped with his life. And then, afterwards he would be compelled to fight alongside King Baldwin in the second battle of Ramla against the Egyptian Fatimids, where if you guys know, and we're going to talk about this soon,

the second battle of Romla is going to be a huge miscalculation by King Baldwin and Stephen of Loire will die in battle. So there is a little bit of like a happy ending. You know, the guy who felt all this shame for deserting battle is able to go back and die a hero. So, you know, taking little dubs where you can.

let's see we got Mr. Boamans next. I'm gonna say this this might be controversial Boam on kind of sucks. He's not my he's not my favorite crusader He might be my least favorite crusader for one

GOBBA GOOL (33:17.822)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (33:21.859)
Boamond is the first leader of Antioch. We talked about him a couple episodes ago. He's the one who really kind of leveraged to become the leader and lord over Antioch once it fell. And while he was very pivotal in helping that military campaign succeed, he also, I don't know, think ambition was a little bit of an idol for good Boamond. And so

GOBBA GOOL (33:50.989)
Mmm.

Jim Salmon (33:51.766)
One he's gonna stay in Antioch and not even join the Crusaders for Jerusalem because he wants to secure his own personal stronghold instead Within like a year of the fall of Jerusalem. He's gonna launch this really irresponsible campaign fighting back in Anatolia where he's gonna get whopped and he's actually gonna be kept prisoner and held captive by these by these Turks for three years

So yeah, so and it just kind of sucks like the whole story of like because I had to look up I was like, why did nobody pay this guy's ransom? Cuz that's what happens like you you get a valuable leader and you say alright We'll give him back to you, but it's gonna cost you, you know 300,000 dinars or something like that and for one the the ransom was so astronomically high for Boam on but also they didn't pay it because I think

GOBBA GOOL (34:22.41)
Oof.

Jim Salmon (34:52.141)
they weren't exactly hoping that Beaumont would get back into the picture. I think there was a little bit of suspicion that like this dude's not doing his job very well. Like he's acting kind of recklessly and right now his nephew's kind of taking care of business. So we're gonna let him chill for a little bit.

GOBBA GOOL (35:10.817)
That's so bad. They're like, yes, we've got one of their top tier leaders and let them send the messenger. And the messenger comes back. He's like, yeah, they said we keep him.

Jim Salmon (35:15.68)
You

Jim Salmon (35:22.805)
Yeah, that's kind of how it seemed, Like they were just like, yeah, you know, we're just, we just got a lot of other things we're taking care of right now. We've got a really busy schedule. So Boa Mond is eventually going to get released and then...

GOBBA GOOL (35:32.813)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (35:41.668)
He goes back to Antioch, which his nephew, Tankred, has been overseeing on his behalf. And he kind of gets back and he looks around and he's like, yeah, know, I think I'm kind of done with this place. So he, in another slightly scumbaggy move, kind of decides to take his share of the goods in Antioch, including some of the military. And he just takes them off to Europe to be like, all right, I'm going to go back home. You guys enjoy Antioch, whatever. And so he goes home and

Everyone celebrates. everyone's super excited when he gets back. They're like, my gosh, this is like, you know, this is like Captain America coming back home from battle. It's like, you know, it's one of the Avengers. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. And so they celebrate him as a hero. They marry him off to, think, the daughter of the King of France. Like, just like, he has this, this like embellished role. And then he does the equivalent of like writing a personal memoir that not only embellishes himself and the crusade,

GOBBA GOOL (36:20.415)
Yeah, the war hero's back.

Jim Salmon (36:41.541)
But he talks about a certain group that he really freaking hates. Can you guess who that group is Taylor?

GOBBA GOOL (36:49.703)
gosh, does he talk crap about the Byzantines? my gosh.

Jim Salmon (36:53.247)
It's the Byzantines, man. You nailed it.

I have a... he is basically like, you know who fought so bravely and did so well? All of us. And do you know what slimy dirty dogs didn't do a freaking thing? Those ugly Greeks. And so he, I found a quote from him too, which is just, gosh, it's so good. This is really the perfect example of how these guys are always kind of intertwining warfare language with

language, but talking about the emperor of the Byzantines he says, He has oppressed many thousands of Christians with wicked treachery. Some consigned to shipwreck, many to poison, more still to exile, and countless others he has handed over to pagans. This emperor is not a Christian, but a mad heretic. Julian the Apostate, another Judas, friend of the Jews, pretending peace but inciting war, cutthroat to his brothers.

GOBBA GOOL (37:50.221)
my gosh.

Jim Salmon (37:56.606)
bloody Herod against Christ. And so yeah, he's basically like, these guys suck. And so he, being the war hero that he is, buddy buddies up with the new pope, who I believe is Pope Pascal II, and he proposes a second crusade. And the crusade is kind of pitched as let's...

Let's go back into the Levant and defend against the Greeks because I bet those scumbags are planning something. But what he turns it into is I'm just going to go attack the Greeks. I'm just going to take this new crusading army and we're just going to lay siege.

And they, I think they topple like a pretty small fortress. They get to Diracium, which is kind of like the entry point to the Byzantine empire. And they just get whomped. Like they don't do anything. Like it's a complete embarrassment for Boamond. He doesn't even die in combat. He like has to sign a peace treaty. And in the peace treaty, he says that he as Prince of Antioch will return certain territories back to the Byzantine.

he agrees that he will be a subordinate of the Greeks and eventually essentially that if he were to die as the leader of Antioch at his death the territory will be returned back to the Greeks and Beaumont writes he signs the treaty but then he goes back home to Europe and he never goes back to the Levant he just kind of he doesn't die a loser but he definitely keeps a low profile and then he dies in 1111 so yeah

GOBBA GOOL (39:36.718)
So he died still pretty young.

Jim Salmon (39:41.176)
Yeah, I think he was in his 40s, 50s. Yeah, I don't know. I forgot the way that he died. I think it was pretty natural. I don't think it was anything suspicious, but yeah, he kind of went out.

like a chump a little bit. Not great. All right, I've got two more dudes to talk about. I'm gonna spend way more time on one than the other. So I'm gonna talk about Tancred first. And Tancred, I could say a lot about, but also we could have a really freaking long episode and...

Me and Taylor are recording at like 11 o'clock at night and I got work tomorrow. I'm tired. So Tankred is the nephew of Beaumont. Tankred is an interesting dude. So he kind of takes over Antioch when his uncle is captured.

GOBBA GOOL (40:17.912)
to the

GOBBA GOOL (40:29.494)
Remember, Big Tank Listeners is the one from last episode who was, he was the guy that was like trying to keep people alive. So.

Jim Salmon (40:42.349)
Correct. And whether it's because he wanted to sell them for ransom or because he wanted to not kill them. Yeah, it depends on how cynical you are of the Crusaders, but yes. Right. No, no, I'll give it that. I'll give that to you. I'm just saying.

GOBBA GOOL (40:53.374)
E- regardless, keeping them alive is significantly better. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim Salmon (41:01.283)
Tankred was an interesting dude. I'm just gonna summarize Tankred because he had two really interesting rivalries. Both of them were with guys named Baldwin. One is Baldwin of Boulogne, who we're gonna talk about a lot. One is the other Baldwin of Bork, who is the first Baldwin's cousin. But he's interesting, dude. Like, Tankred...

really does do a fantastic job of establishing. So Antioch and Jerusalem are definitely going to be the strongholds. They're going to be the most powerful and under Tancred at the steering wheel of Antioch and then Baldwin at the steering wheel of Jerusalem after his brother Godfrey dies. They're really, I mean, they're both going to have their, their wins and their losses, as far as like fortifying their territories, you know, establishing trade routes.

they're really gonna do a lot to defend and defending against just just eminent threat of whether it's the Byzantines, the Egyptians, the Seljuks. So Tancred is a is is definitely a laud worthy leader even though he's a you know he's gonna have some some some tiffs. But yeah my my favorite story that

He was a rival with Baldwin. They had this incident where when they were, I think this was before Antioch. So the Crusaders were storming this town.

It was the town of Tarsus, which is where Paul's from, which is very cool for all you Bible nerds out there. And so they arrive at this town and, and Baldwin and Tancred are kind of like racing there because as the princes, as the counts, when you can get to a territory, if you can conquer it first and you can kind of lay claim to all the goodies inside and your armies can kind of, you know, relish and all the, you know, cool books and I don't know, linen.

Jim Salmon (43:03.285)
you can find and so and so tankrid gets to tarsus first and he conquers it with his army and then baldwin shows up a couple hours later with a bigger army and he says you guys gotta leave and tankrid's like no dude i got here first you kidding me you're not gonna make me leave and baldwin's like look i don't want to make this difficult for you but i really think you guys need to get out of here because this is ours now so tankrid's like you son of a gun man so tankrid kind of kind of takes the

takes the easier path. He's like, all right, fine. All right. I'm going to remember this. I'm going to remember this. so Baldwin kind of takes his folks in. Tankred comes out and his folks leave. Some more of Tankred's men come later to Tarsus and they say, hey, we heard our lord was here.

and Baldwin's like sorry man I kicked them out and so they're like okay we don't really have a place to stay so they just kind of chilled on the outskirts of the town and that night as they were resting there some Seljuks came and killed them and so and so now Tankred and and Baldwin have this like

GOBBA GOOL (44:02.158)
Great.

Jim Salmon (44:09.847)
blood rivalry, not just because they kind of butted egos, but also because in Tancred's mind, he's like, you freaking, like my men died because you were such a punk. So that's one story. Another story that I think kind of captures the ruthlessness of Tancred was many, many years later, as he's been the head of Antioch for a while,

Odessa is kind of their neighbor up to the north. Like Taylor said, it's kind of the place that people don't love as much. It's not as exciting. So Baldwin, Baldwin's cousin, Baldwin of Bork is going to take over as the count there. And then a big battle that kind of goes sideways for everybody. He's going to get captured. And Tancred is essentially going to be accused of dragging his feet to pay Baldwin's ransom.

because what happens is Tancred is basically using his own political leveraging to make sure that all of what Adessa is doing is benefiting his territory. And so they're actually when Baldwin does get released from captivity, he's going to basically have to fight Tancred about getting his own territory back, which is kind of crazy. And the two of them literally, you know, their armies face off against each other. And the wildest thing is Baldwin

GOBBA GOOL (45:38.704)
Are you kidding me?

Jim Salmon (45:40.714)
Hey dude, here's the craziest part. Baldwin is going to march to try to reclaim his own land against a fellow crusader veteran and he's going to march with Muslim allies to help him. So literally an army of Christians alongside like 4,000 Muslim soldiers are going to fight another army of Christians.

GOBBA GOOL (46:03.84)
It's almost like this wasn't religiously motivated for a lot of them.

Jim Salmon (46:09.227)
Not solely, man. They're complicated dudes, but...

GOBBA GOOL (46:12.91)
I would love to know maybe somebody has some paper research project just because these all these individual guys have all their own little armies and their own little driving factors and their own. Honestly, it would seem like they have their own worldviews. So

Jim Salmon (46:30.349)
They all, they're not united. I think the closest they had to unity was their papal legate. But as we know, he died. At this point, he died a long time ago, yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (46:33.623)
Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (46:38.858)
He died a long time ago for compared to this. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. I just did not expect Crusaders. Was it Fatimids or Seljicks?

Jim Salmon (46:47.605)
No, it's wild.

Ooh, I think they were Egyptians. They were Fatimids. Yeah, I think so. I'd have to check on that. But yeah, was a short-lived, I mean, it was short-lived after 2,000 Christians were killed in combat. Eventually...

GOBBA GOOL (47:06.53)
So so Bo Eman not Bo Eman sorry. Baldwin wiped the floor with the Muslims.

Jim Salmon (47:12.296)
Baldwin.

Jim Salmon (47:16.483)
it was, it was pretty like neck and neck. I don't think there was a clear winner and it was basically called off because, one of the local patriarchs kind of stepped in as a neutral mediator and said, look, Tancred, we all, we all know that you like officially told, so and so that once Baldwin was released from captivity, you were going to give this land back to him. So stop being a tool. And so Tancred was like, you got me. And so my bad.

GOBBA GOOL (47:21.1)
Wow.

GOBBA GOOL (47:43.79)
you got me guys. yeah.

Jim Salmon (47:46.59)
my bad you know what are you gonna do and so yeah tankrit like I said very effective ruler got a lot of good things done for for Antioch pretty ruthless at times and he dies of typhoid in 1112

GOBBA GOOL (48:00.774)
I wonder if Tankred is the kind of guy that knows he's the best guy to have in charge. So he's like, I'm going to take this because I know I'll do it better.

Jim Salmon (48:19.979)
Yeah, would not surprise me. mean, remember, Tankred is also the dude who was in no rush to ransom his own uncle out of captivity because he was like, I'm doing a pretty good job here.

GOBBA GOOL (48:32.075)
Yeah, Unk is a little washed. Okay, I don't know. just don't know if I have like a judgment on Tankred compared to some of the other people. He's definitely like mid tier as far as like horribleness goes.

Jim Salmon (48:37.565)
been tweaking lately.

Yeah, he's

Jim Salmon (48:46.216)
Yeah.

Yeah, he's an interesting guy. He's an interesting guy. All right. Now we're going to get into a

To our last dude who I've got quite a bit for which I will try my best not to drag So Baldwin of Boulogne, so when we talk about the first real leader of Jerusalem I know we love to say Godfrey because Godfrey's like King Arthur, you know, he's he's this righteous awesome, dude But it's really Baldwin because Baldwin is gonna take over my interest. So interesting thing about Baldwin, dude during like

When the Crusaders are moving south towards Antioch, Baldwin kind of peels off and does his own like side mission. so while all the other guys are heading south towards Jerusalem, Baldwin's like, I'm going to go capture Edessa real quick. And so literally before Antioch falls or Jerusalem, Baldwin's like, look guys, I'm the count of Edessa. And he didn't really conquer it either. It was this such a strange story where there were these Armenian

GOBBA GOOL (49:41.837)
You

Jim Salmon (49:54.902)
Christians there who kind of oversaw the territory and There's this army. I think he was a patriarch or a lord or something and they were like you guys are latins. That's awesome I love latins. I would love to like, you know like adopt you and kind of take and you can take over the politics of all this stuff and they do this ritual where Baldwin has to like crawl inside the shirt like of this old Greek man

as he's wearing it so they're like kind of wearing the same shirt together like belly to belly it's this like adoption ceremony type thing they make him wear the same shirt yeah that's right

GOBBA GOOL (50:34.236)
it's like when kids are fighting and mom's like, yeah, you guys gotta wear the friendship shirt.

Jim Salmon (50:43.619)
So, yeah, Baldwin, I guess this really isn't his military cunning. It's more of just his, his, his, his diplomacy at this point. So he takes Odessa as the first crusader state before Jerusalem falls. yeah. So Godfrey is going to die as we talked about either poison or arrow or most likely typhoid. and what's interesting is, you know, we talked about the papal legate. I believe his name was Adamar Lepue, Lepue?

So his successor because they're gonna send another papal legate, which if you don't know it's just the personal representative of the Pope is Yeah, he is the had to get one out, huh?

GOBBA GOOL (51:21.165)
It's like the mouth of Sauron.

I did, I'm sorry.

Jim Salmon (51:29.815)
That's okay. That's okay. So they say there's another people that gate sent out his name is dime bear of Pisa. And so dime bear is really hoping to sneak in and take over some control for after Godfrey dies. So he's going to have a little clash with Baldwin, but it's not going to last long. And eventually he's going to be a Baldwin will be coordinated as the king. But yeah, as we, as we talked about, he has a lot of work to do to make Jerusalem stable. Cause at this time they don't have

really anything. Also, like, I think... I don't know, dude, it's like...

They did do a good job of stabilizing Jerusalem, but it's almost like their presence made everything outside Jerusalem more hostile. Because there's all these narratives of like, now pilgrims to Jerusalem were getting harassed even more. Because there were like these gangs of Muslims who were looking for Christians to like beat up and murder and stuff like that.

GOBBA GOOL (52:24.461)
Hmm.

Jim Salmon (52:30.151)
And, and so, yeah, it was the, moved into a rough neighborhood, basically. so in the summer of 1103, Baldwin will actually be on a hunting trip with his boys and will be attacked just by some random mob. And he'll be stabbed through the back with a lance and, literally it'll come, they'll go in through his back out near his heart. It's very close to a fatal injury, but he will survive. even though the pain and lasting effects of the

GOBBA GOOL (52:47.935)
Oof.

Jim Salmon (53:00.205)
will basically linger until he does die. So Baldwin's big goal is...

We I gotta get control of the coast Jerusalem's very close to the Mediterranean He's like I need to get the coast because for one if I can do that then I can get easier support from Europe and We can trade better and that'll just be a whole lot easier and I can get military support and one of the biggest boosts that comes is that in 1101 He's gonna get assists from the Genoese fleet, which is basically these this Italian Navy that's gonna give him support And so he's gonna take over the towns of Cezere

The caesarean thing is really rough. kind of I'm kind of going going quick. He basically says hey guys, I know you're under Muslim rule I just want you to know I'm the king of this territory and if you just give up right now, then we'll be fine If you fight me then I'm gonna I'm gonna make you really really pay for it and they were like no we got reinforcements close by we'll be fine and they get absolutely rocked and Then Baldwin basically gives the green light

to his soldiers to Jerusalem 2.0 the situation and so yeah they sack the city they slaughter civilians they loot they tear stuff up just cause a lot of a lot of trouble and it was basically done to be like tell your friends that not to mess with with poppy frank so so yeah that was kind of the intention and to his to his credit not that it was a

GOBBA GOOL (54:12.756)
Jim Salmon (54:37.861)
good thing to do but when he comes to Acre a couple months later they're basically going to be like please don't kill us and he's like no you're fine and so he ironically lets the Muslims live there and continue to do their thing they just have to pay a tax which is what Muslims do with Christians so what do you know? How the turn tables

GOBBA GOOL (54:57.307)
Well, well, well, Muslims!

GOBBA GOOL (55:03.851)
Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Jim Salmon (55:08.259)
Alright, so here's probably the craziest story for Baldwin. So in late 1101, the king of Jerusalem is going to hear awful news, which is that the Egyptian Fatimids, who they had taken the Holy City from just two years prior, had finally prepared their long-awaited counterattack. And so they were, they were, oh yeah, they were like ready to...

GOBBA GOOL (55:31.361)
Like the real one. Because they'd done some little things, right?

Jim Salmon (55:36.396)
little skirmishes here and there. but most of that, but they were like, nah, we're, sending the big dogs out and we're going to take our city back. Yeah. And this is, this is the big one. And so Baldwin

GOBBA GOOL (55:41.847)
So they were just, they were palling around.

Okay.

Jim Salmon (55:49.25)
You know to his credit, like I said, he's a strategic genius. He's a very smart guy. He's basically like we're not going to wait for these chumps to come to us. I'm going to meet them. so Baldwin attacks with like wave after wave of divisions of of infantry and catches them off guard and it's a brutal battle, but he wins and it's like, heck yeah, we freaking got this. The problem was because Egypt is a giant empire with a lot of resources.

GOBBA GOOL (56:06.413)
Mmm.

Jim Salmon (56:19.173)
sources and manpower less than six months later Egypt was like you guys ready for round two and so

Word gets out that they've got another army coming and Baldwin makes the worst mistake of his career as a leader. He doesn't think that it's a full scale invasion from Egypt. He thinks it's just another small skirmish. So he, along with a small, small portion of the army, try to do the same thing they did. Like they advanced on them really quickly, tried to catch them off guard and they realize immediately that they just picked a fight with a monster.

and they get swallowed up immediately and he is forced to flee and I have to read this passage it's it's directly from our boy Mr. Thomas Asbridge because it's so good so here we go Meanwhile, with the enemy closing in for the kill, Baldwin beat a fighting retreat to Ramla with a handful of survivors, taking Meager Sanctuary in its fortified tower. That evening, Baldwin found himself in a desperate predicament, knowing full well that

dawn would bring a crushing assault and certain death or capture. made what must have been a tortured decision to abandon his army and seek escape under cover of night. In the company of five of his most faithful and fearsome retainers, he stole out of the encircled fort, probably in some form of disguise. But he was soon challenged by Muslim troops. In the darkness, a bloody chaotic melee began. And according to one contemporary, a frank

night named Robert, went to the front with drawn sword mowing down the enemy right and left, but he momentarily lost hold of his weapon and was quickly overwhelmed. As another two of his companions fell, Baldwin fled, borne away astride his swift horse. He now had him, he now had with him a single surviving follower, Hugh of Brawlis. The Egyptians launched a frantic hunt for the fugitive monarch, sensing that he was only moments away

Jim Salmon (58:26.793)
from capture. The king sought sanctuary and concealment in an overgrown thicket of canes, but his pursuers set light to the undergrowth.

GOBBA GOOL (58:35.629)
Jim Salmon (58:36.547)
Baldwin barely managed to escape, suffering minor burns in the process. He spent the next two days on the run in fear of his life. Bewildered, short of food and water, he first tried to find his way through the wild Judean foothills to Jerusalem, but retreated at the sight of numerous Fatimid patrols combing the area. On May 19th, 1102, he turned northwest to the coast and eventually found his way to Arsuf and a modicum of

GOBBA GOOL (58:38.349)
Hmm

Jim Salmon (59:06.571)
safety and so they literally thought he was dead like both both sides did the Fatimids did but his people super thought he was dead so he was able to get back to Jaffa kind of rally he had to rest he was like he was like completely done and traumatized and everything but

They were able to kind of bolster up their supports in Jaffa and Jaffa was able to fight back the Fatimids. yeah, that first army is gonna get just completely demolished and that small little contingency of people that kind of took refuge in that fortress, the Fatimids are gonna come in and just slaughter them and it's gonna be awful. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (59:51.253)
Wipe him out. What? did they? what? did the Fatimids then go on and take Jerusalem?

Jim Salmon (59:58.09)
No, they actually got stopped up at Jaffa.

GOBBA GOOL (01:00:01.869)
so they bolstered and.

Jim Salmon (01:00:06.209)
They fought them off, yeah. And so...

GOBBA GOOL (01:00:07.873)
Dang. You know, I got to give Baldwin credit for knowing because you got to think so the Fatimans know Jerusalem is takeable because we just did it. We also just lost it, proving once again, it's takeable and round three, we're just going to go in and take it. So and that's why Baldwin was like, OK, we're not going to we're not going to play chicken here at Jerusalem.

Jim Salmon (01:00:17.089)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (01:00:25.601)
Yeah, exactly.

Jim Salmon (01:00:32.611)
Mm-hmm. I I think I mean I can't imagine how hard it would be just having like I don't know 20 30 guys around you and being like night night and knowing like

I'm gonna have to, like, you're never gonna see me again. Like, as soon as it gets dark, I'm gonna run because I can't stay here. So that's a brutal, and like the fact that he survived. I mean, again, these are the types of things that happen to the Crusaders where it's just like, man, this feels like a miracle. Like, this is crazy.

GOBBA GOOL (01:00:50.702)
I'm sure that, yeah. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (01:01:03.117)
Well, and you know, the thing is, so, you know, his he had his great little victory against the Fatimids. And then six months later, they're like, OK, you know, you think about it. Egypt is like next door. To Jerusalem, whereas any reinforcements that Baldwin could get. Like that's so far away.

Jim Salmon (01:01:16.223)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Jim Salmon (01:01:26.657)
Yeah. And honestly, I sort of wonder if Egypt hadn't kept pushing, if they could have just taken back Jerusalem because I mean, they were not set up for success. Having the coast eventually was really helpful because it gave them a lot of quick access to support. yeah, like Egypt, Egypt was right at their door. So that was not an easy thing.

GOBBA GOOL (01:01:48.685)
Mmm.

Jim Salmon (01:01:51.542)
Yeah, so baldwin was an interesting dude. so when he dies, He's going to be kind of pressing into the largely vacant wilderness territory called the trans jordan and

Yeah, so he's basically in this really vast wilderness and he as he's out there his old wound from that lance injury starts to flare up and he just really he's like, crap, I'm gonna die. And so he famously gives instructions to the people he's traveling with and he's like, I do not want to freaking be buried in Egypt. He's like, so I need you to do and he gives them instructions. So when he dies, they cut his belly open.

They remove his organs. basically embalm his body so that it remains. And then they, you know, fill him with salt and herbs and spices. And then they take him back to Jerusalem and he's buried at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher beside his brother, Godfrey.

GOBBA GOOL (01:02:54.967)
Dang. Dad's gotta be traumatizing to like cut your king open. and you're like, it was the last thing he asked me to do.

Jim Salmon (01:02:56.641)
Yeah, so I'll re- It's your- your king. Yeah. Yeah, that's-

Yeah, just as you're like you're just like a tauntaun in Star Wars, dude. It's awful. The last thing I'll read about Baldwin. This is really all I have left is, you know.

GOBBA GOOL (01:03:09.689)
Jim Salmon (01:03:17.621)
If there's anyone's words who we should be taking seriously or most seriously, it's that of the mortal enemies. And I do have a primary source from a contemporary Muslim historian named Ibn al-Khalanisi. And he's speaking about the death of Baldwin. And he says, in this year, news came from the Franks of the death of Baldwin, the little leader, king of the Franks and Lord of Jerusalem. He died on Thursday, 25th.

GOBBA GOOL (01:03:32.257)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (01:03:47.478)
of Ramadan or 8 August 1132. He was an old man, rich in experience and accustomed to every trial and hardship of life. Several times he had been imprisoned by the Muslims and worn in peace, but his famous stratagems and skillful maneuvering had got him out. At his death, he was succeeded by a man who lacked his good sense and gift for kingship. Baldwin's death caused trouble and disturbance among the Franks.

GOBBA GOOL (01:04:14.803)
Wow. When the enemy right when the enemy writes your obituary and it's like, homie got game.

Jim Salmon (01:04:15.885)
It's pretty high price.

I love that they were like, we imprisoned him several times, but he was good at maneuvering.

GOBBA GOOL (01:04:28.373)
Yeah, he was good. And what's even funnier is they're like, see, see, that's a proper opponent. I respect that guy.

Jim Salmon (01:04:34.891)
Yeah, exactly. So they were like, yeah, he causes a lot of trouble. And I think my favorite backhanded compliment is, what was it? At his death, he was succeeded by a man who lacked his good sense and gifts for kingship. So it's like the Franks suck. They couldn't find a successor to save their lives, but he was pretty good, you know? So I love that. Yeah. Whew, gosh, dang.

GOBBA GOOL (01:04:48.789)
Right, right.

GOBBA GOOL (01:04:55.381)
Yeah, no, no, that's a good quote. Well, good job, John. What a, that was a marathon for you.

Jim Salmon (01:05:03.779)
That was, dude. That was. But it was good. It was good. I feel like we have a good, and I feel like I have a good sense of like, kind of who these folks were, you know. You got Baldwin and Tancred, the hyper ambitious. You've got Raymond, the very religious. You've got Beaumont, the kind of backstabby. They're all kind of backstabby, honestly, but I don't know. These are interesting.

GOBBA GOOL (01:05:06.637)
you

GOBBA GOOL (01:05:25.291)
Yeah. So when does Jerusalem finally fall again?

Jim Salmon (01:05:31.875)
I don't know. I'm gonna look that up right now. No, no, no, it's okay. You keep talking. I'm gonna find it.

GOBBA GOOL (01:05:34.411)
That's fine. fine. We can. Well, I was gonna say we I mean, that'll be just like, you know, next next series research. Because leading up to the Second Crusade. Well, did we just have that doesn't count as the Second Crusade does it?

Jim Salmon (01:05:50.732)
No, it's called the Crusade of 1091. It also has a weird name. It's like the Crusade of the Ill-Fortune or something like that. Shoot, what is it called?

GOBBA GOOL (01:06:04.213)
Okay. Well, we're gonna take our break and get you some fun little stuff. We're gonna do an Anselm. Tommy's got an episode on Anselm next week for you guys. He was a medieval theologian around this time, so he's interesting. And then, you know, we've got some other fun stuff lined up.

Jim Salmon (01:06:28.643)
Yeah, I'm real excited. We're going to take a break for probably, I don't know what, like three weeks or so. Just kind of, kind of chill. Yeah. Okay. Crusaders don't lose Jerusalem until 1187. So, and it's under Saladin.

GOBBA GOOL (01:06:33.089)
Yeah, someone whenever we'll feel it out.

GOBBA GOOL (01:06:42.579)
Okay, so we've got a lot of story to tell. I wonder if this inspires confidence or takes away confidence that like we're very clearly learning as we go for the listeners.

Jim Salmon (01:06:45.644)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (01:06:53.795)
I think that that makes me feel good because it's like it's fresh you know like I was reading this like 10 minutes ago yeah exactly I've got a full-time job yeah got a family out here bro like come on

GOBBA GOOL (01:06:59.085)
Yeah, we're in this with you guys. I don't know. I don't got time to become an expert on the Crusades like on the whole thing. Dude, I yeah. I know I like I'll I'll just read as we go. Yeah, Yeah, we are. All right. So I think we agree. Probably let's not record at 11 o'clock.

Jim Salmon (01:07:13.527)
We're all in this together, man. We're all in this together.

Jim Salmon (01:07:21.879)
Yeah, that was hard. I'm tired.

GOBBA GOOL (01:07:23.541)
What did you, what's happening tomorrow night that you were like, I can't do tomorrow night, big dog.

Jim Salmon (01:07:29.517)
My buddy's gonna be in town. Yeah, come on, I can't see my buddy. I wanted to see him. I'm excited. Thanks, Doc. Thank you.

GOBBA GOOL (01:07:31.719)
my gosh. Yeah, you can. I don't mind. I'll do it for you. Listeners, he literally texts me and he goes, hey, bro. So he basically goes, I've got an offer that just came across my desk and I can't say no. And I'm like, OK. I didn't.

Jim Salmon (01:07:48.494)
Kind of what it was. I was really vague with it. I don't even know why I was so vague. I should have just been like, Hey, Zach's going to be in town. But, anyways, much appreciated and listeners even much more appreciated. Thank you guys. We love you. We appreciate you. And we'll talk to you real soon. See ya.

GOBBA GOOL (01:07:54.525)
year dude I'm I'm happy to let you see your buddy so

GOBBA GOOL (01:08:05.452)
Yes. Bye bye.