132. The Crushing Collapse of the Second Crusade

"So great was the disaster of the army and so inexpressible the misery that those who took part bemoan it with tears to this very day."

The Second Crusade failed to capture lightning in a bottle a second time. What was proposed as a rousing show of support to Christian brothers ended with dissent, accusations, and rumors of betrayal. 

It's a bad time. 

Thanks for joining us as we wrap up our coverage of Crusade #2!

Also, do John and Taylor need to start a fitness podcast? Or maybe just starting taking care of ourselves better? 

Hmmm.

Transcript

Jim Salmon (00:00.615)
Hey everybody, welcome to Church History for Chumps. My name is John Simon and I'm here with Taylor Treadway. That's a man.

GOBBA GOOL (00:07.342)
HALO!

GOBBA GOOL (00:12.408)
dude, I feel like a thousand pound gorilla was lifted off my chest.

Jim Salmon (00:19.825)
I thought you were going to say I feel like a thousand pound gorilla. I was like, man.

GOBBA GOOL (00:23.382)
That too.

I got all my assignments done on time.

Jim Salmon (00:29.085)
Wow, look at that. Are you done?

GOBBA GOOL (00:34.528)
I mean, till the summer classes start. But no, it's not going to be as bad. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (00:37.679)
nevermind. Okay, I was almost excited for you. Well, I am, I am excited for you. I am, I am. That's good. That's good. Yeah, you gotta slow it down, man. You can't do this to yourself. You're going too hard. Literally, like literally putting yourself in the hole. You can't do that, man. That's not good.

GOBBA GOOL (00:48.814)
I can't put myself in the hospital again.

GOBBA GOOL (00:55.362)
Yo, shout out to all the gym bros that listen.

Jim Salmon (00:59.945)
Yeah, everyone's like, Hey, why don't you guys, why don't you guys do They're just like, Hey, hey, John and Taylor, why don't you guys do an episode on, on curls versus bench press next time. It's like, okay. I got up to 4,000 steps today. Not good. Baby steps. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (01:05.197)
I don't know! Alright, I look.

GOBBA GOOL (01:13.024)
I know. I mean, a John or like today I ate a carrot.

GOBBA GOOL (01:21.548)
Right. It's all all baby steps. So.

Jim Salmon (01:25.437)
Yeah, I love the encouragement and honestly, it makes me want to do like a challenge. But here's the thing. I don't want to do a weight loss challenge with you, Taylor, because you go, you go very hard in things like you're, you're like a short burst kind of guy. You're the person I don't want to face in a competition. Like if it's like a year long competition, let's do it. But if it's like, who can lose the most weight in the summer? I know you're going to lose 40 pounds. And then in October, you're going to have.

GOBBA GOOL (01:39.604)
I do. I am.

Because I'm just kidding.

GOBBA GOOL (01:54.254)
Cause I'm, I hope not. I, I, I'm trying to just be reasonable this time, but you are right. Like if we did a competition, I would 100 % but I haven't eaten in three days.

Jim Salmon (01:55.323)
35 of them back.

Jim Salmon (02:02.461)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (02:06.877)
You'd smoke me. Right? Yeah, exactly. You're just gonna go. You're just gonna go on a you're gonna go on a binge diet like. Yeah, yeah, you'll be like.

GOBBA GOOL (02:14.433)
I just have water and salt. Last solid food I ate was a cracker seven months ago.

Jim Salmon (02:20.995)
That's right. Well, I've been fasting since we started. I just moved up to broth and I'm like, I'm on a steady calorie deficit and Taylor's like, I lost 20 pounds. I'm like, gosh. All right. Nevermind.

GOBBA GOOL (02:27.966)
Right.

GOBBA GOOL (02:34.005)
I know. Well, I know you were watching the wonderful Mulan. So that's what JS was doing.

Jim Salmon (02:40.699)
I was. And it's funny, it was kind of nice watching a movie that had such a... Because like, I've been just waist deep in Crusades and war and siege warfare for the past two months. It was nice to watch something that had a war theme that was also kind of quirky and kind of whimsical. Little Eddie Murphy dragon.

GOBBA GOOL (03:02.485)
Yeah. The only girl that love him is his mother.

Jim Salmon (03:08.573)
That's right, you got like, this was like back when, I feel like it was kind of ahead of its time. There were a lot of, you know, it was a movie based on Chinese people. Most of them played by Chinese people. There were some egg roll jokes thrown in, mostly by Eddie Murphy. So not entirely tasteful, which I love. I like that. It didn't feel, it felt good.

GOBBA GOOL (03:28.107)
Right. It didn't feel like it was like in your face. Like, look at how Chinese we are.

Jim Salmon (03:32.591)
Right, right. Even though I have to really ask, their whole thing was like, we have to protect the honor of China. And I'm like, China apparently is so problematic that this poor young woman can't volunteer for military service to defend her. I'm like, why are we protecting this ancient society? Maybe China needs, maybe the Huns actually have something to say.

GOBBA GOOL (03:52.518)
Okay, now you're thinking too much. Maybe. Dude, when was it? It's Attila? No, what's the who's the bad guy? Should you? So when he goes, when he asks his little guys like, how many people does it take to deliver a message? And his little archer guys like one and just shoots the other guy like

Jim Salmon (04:02.287)
Shen... Shen Yu or something like that.

Jim Salmon (04:11.369)
cold blooded.

I was thinking, I was like, is this the highest body count in any like OG Disney movie? Like this is, there are towns that are slaughtered here. Foreshadowings of the second crusade, if you're being honest. So yeah, great movie though. I love it. What, what, I mean, I know you're a Disney man. What are your like top three Disney princesses?

GOBBA GOOL (04:21.87)
Absolutely.

GOBBA GOOL (04:27.744)
Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (04:31.394)
I know dude. Yep.

GOBBA GOOL (04:44.23)
gosh. I've never been put on a spot like this. I feel like I'm going to throw out a controversial one.

Jim Salmon (04:48.882)
Like,

Jim Salmon (04:54.619)
Is it the frog one? Why would that be controversial?

GOBBA GOOL (04:57.056)
No, you racist. I like- I like her because I like beignets and jazz, but I think Elsa's number one.

Jim Salmon (05:04.081)
Okay. Wow, okay.

GOBBA GOOL (05:08.406)
It's the Frost magic. She's basically an X-Man.

Jim Salmon (05:11.355)
She's very, she's like an omega level. She's very powerful. Yeah, she's scary. Okay.

GOBBA GOOL (05:14.538)
Yeah, she's pretty OP, pretty OP. And then Tiana, but Lewis has to be there.

Jim Salmon (05:23.025)
Okay, who's Lewis? my-

GOBBA GOOL (05:24.526)
Who is this the crocodile that plays trumpet?

Jim Salmon (05:31.209)
So this is just like your dream, like, like your dream hookah rotation. That's true. Crocodiles are not in the South. It's alligators.

GOBBA GOOL (05:33.754)
my wife is yelling at me, HE'S AN ALLIGATOR!

GOBBA GOOL (05:41.162)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the alligator. All right, and then number three.

Jim Salmon (05:46.557)
Mulan. How about, what's the redheaded girl? Brave, brave.

GOBBA GOOL (05:49.016)
Does Bo Peep count?

GOBBA GOOL (05:53.678)
You don't we don't even know her name. Oh Merida. Merida or something. Yeah, no, not her. Hmm. What other ethnic princesses are there?

Jim Salmon (05:55.474)
Isn't it like, Mindra or something? What is it? Merida? Okay. Yeah. Not her. Okay.

Jim Salmon (06:07.133)
Pocahontas.

GOBBA GOOL (06:08.948)
yeah, she's cool. The colors of the wind. Number one was is this a blonde blue-eyed?

Jim Salmon (06:10.131)
Dude, you've got a very progressive top three. Yeah, dude, this you're crushing it.

Jim Salmon (06:18.281)
But she's tech- she's also a mutant by X-Men standards. So

GOBBA GOOL (06:22.146)
That's true. Number three, number three, we'll go with, we'll go with Belle.

Jim Salmon (06:27.323)
Okay, alright, alright, well, I take back my progressive comment.

GOBBA GOOL (06:28.942)
But like Belle hanging out with all the inanimate objects that are talking, not like Belle with her full servant staff.

Jim Salmon (06:36.221)
Mm-hmm.

Wait, so Belle with all of the the the still cursed people Because they're only inanimate objects when the curse was in was in store Just keeping them trapped Rose in its glass jar

GOBBA GOOL (06:44.654)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. For my amusement. Yeah. I just I like only drink beverages from Chip. What? Mama, help! She's like, I'm a pot chip!

Jim Salmon (07:11.145)
Like,

GOBBA GOOL (07:12.09)
no. What's... Yeah, what's, what's, what's, who's your top three?

Jim Salmon (07:17.961)
I don't know. geez. I'll go Mulan, just recency bias. Shoot, now I'm like blanking too. This is hard. Tiana is really the only one of American South descent. And she's really more of a frog than a black woman in that movie, which is a major critique.

GOBBA GOOL (07:41.292)
That's actually a very good point.

Jim Salmon (07:45.706)
I'll take Pocahontas cause she's a Christian. so that's a big deal. and lastly, gimme, what's a who's in, who's Maleficent that's that Snow White sleeping beauty. I'll go with her. Aroha. Okay. Gosh. Deep, deep lore here.

GOBBA GOOL (07:50.722)
Yep.

GOBBA GOOL (08:02.43)
Sleeping Beauty. It's Aurora. You don't even know her name. You're like, Aurora, but Maleficent, actually.

Jim Salmon (08:15.401)
I needed the one who was in that same story. Or... Yeah, I feel good with those three. Mulan, Pocahontas, and Sleeping Beauty. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (08:25.198)
There you go. That's a good diverse cast of cultures and, you know, we're so progressive.

Jim Salmon (08:32.009)
We really are. I'll say this. This is a banter that was worth not skipping. I hope that you guys stuck around for this one. This one was fun. They did not.

GOBBA GOOL (08:41.89)
They didn't. The ones that...

I've had some friends listen, like more history buff friends, and they're like, Hey, yeah, your historical works great. But I don't know what the first 10 minutes was. I'm like, it's the banter that I'm like the people, gotta, you gotta give the people what they want. gets the people going.

Jim Salmon (08:50.665)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (08:57.763)
Honestly, that's okay. That's alright

Jim Salmon (09:03.943)
This is why chapters exist, because I wonder if there's some people who just stop listening after the first 10 minutes. They're like, the banter's great. I don't know what else you talk about.

GOBBA GOOL (09:11.444)
Absolutely there is. My wife literally, my wife literally says she's like, like, like at the family gathering, they're like, Taylor, that was a cool podcast on blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, thanks. And Brandi's like, I stopped listening after the banter because I find them boring.

Jim Salmon (09:27.049)
It's so funny. It's so funny. I'm not even mad. My favorite is like whenever we like I'll work for like five hours on researching an episode and we'll have like five minutes worth of banter. We talk about like, you know, whether you floss first or brush your teeth first. And then we'll get like eight comments on Spotify. And they're all just like, I'm more of a flosser myself. And I'm like, I put five hours into this episode. Comment on the content.

GOBBA GOOL (09:30.709)
I know. It's alright.

GOBBA GOOL (09:45.09)
you

GOBBA GOOL (09:49.794)
You

GOBBA GOOL (09:55.534)
I yeah.

Jim Salmon (09:56.168)
But it's okay, we just love, we just love. All interactions are golden and we appreciate all of our listeners.

GOBBA GOOL (10:00.94)
That's right. So tell us what, tell us who your favorite Disney princess is.

Jim Salmon (10:07.098)
in the comments below.

GOBBA GOOL (10:08.462)
Dude, someone's gonna be like trying to find a new, like a new church history podcast and be like, well, let me see what the comments say. Just, what?

Jim Salmon (10:17.757)
They're gonna be like, I'm more of a Cinderella guy, to be honest. They're like, what is this episode? it's fun, it's fun. All right, that's 10 minutes, that's enough time. Welcome.

GOBBA GOOL (10:21.474)
Right. Right. Well, welcome to everybody who listens to the err, who skips the banter and goodbye to everyone who skips us everything but the banter.

Jim Salmon (10:34.729)
That's right, and we've we've been as you guys know we've been trekking through the second crusade much like King Conrad the third was trekking through

GOBBA GOOL (10:46.318)
Track it through the Middle East?

Jim Salmon (10:48.137)
just checking through the Middle East. And you know, the foreshadowing of things going pretty bad was pretty evident last week and unfortunately they're gonna go from bad to worse. But here's our cold open, this will kind of launch us in. We've got a lot of interesting stories to tell today, so I'm excited, let's get into it. All right, Taylor, I want you to imagine, I want you to imagine that you're planning a mission trip, okay? I want you to imagine you're planning a mission trip for your church's youth group.

GOBBA GOOL (11:12.258)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (11:18.065)
And you've got a good friend who lives, let's say in Mexico. You guys are in California, Mexico's not too far off. Let's say he lives in Baja or something like that.

GOBBA GOOL (11:18.197)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (11:26.985)
and you've got this good friend, he's a pastor in Mexico, a few hour drive from your church and he's like, my gosh, it'd be such a blessing if you guys could come out and bring some young teenagers to help. We've got some orphanages, we've got some schools that need some work done, we have some old ladies who need some repairs, just real basic stuff, that would be awesome. And so you...

GOBBA GOOL (11:50.506)
some old ladies that need repairs.

Jim Salmon (11:52.934)
No, no, all they do is like near their houses, not personal repairs. Not like chiropractic work. so you raise, you raise funds, you recruit a bunch of teenagers, you get, you know, you get a bunch of adult chaperones and everything and you really get the support of the church. The church is excited. They're like, man, pastor Taylor's really got this crew. They're going to do some amazing stuff. We're so excited to get a school bus.

GOBBA GOOL (11:55.79)
not like like, all right. I know you're not a. Yeah. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (12:20.721)
Trip down to Mexico is a disaster, the bus breaks down a bunch of times, couple kids get kidnapped, whatever, let's just get down there. And then you get down there and you realize not only is your friend not there anymore, but he doesn't even live in Mexico and the church closed down. But now there's all these other churches that found out that a bus full of American teenagers is around and they're like, maybe they could help us with our stuff instead.

So you start getting all these people who you don't know reaching out to you being like, could you help us over here? Could you help us over here? And then you find out that some of these people don't even like your friend who used to pastor there. In fact, they used to be like kind of antagonistic towards each other. And you realize, what the heck am I doing here? I came here for one reason and now, and now I got to figure out what else to do. And that's the second crusade.

GOBBA GOOL (13:17.966)
Wow, pretty stressful.

Jim Salmon (13:18.311)
Yeah, now the second crusades. Yes, it's very stressful.

GOBBA GOOL (13:23.69)
Is Conrad, is Conrad the youth pastor?

Jim Salmon (13:26.394)
Yeah, much. Conrad and Lewis the 7th are both...

GOBBA GOOL (13:29.834)
Who's the friend in Mexico that left? well, right. Wow.

Jim Salmon (13:32.522)
It's the County of Odessa. Yeah. So, yeah, well, we kind of got into this before, but as we all know, the big start of the Second Crusade was the County of Odessa, the northernmost, most vulnerable of all the crusader states that's established after the First Crusade, falls to Zhengui, not a Chinese ruler.

Part of the Seljuk Turkish dynasty so part of the Zengid dynasty that would actually be named after him because how influential he was and so Always good to clarify and so and so throughout Europe. You've got people you've got the Pope Eugenius the third you've got

GOBBA GOOL (14:10.168)
Thanks for clarifying that.

Jim Salmon (14:20.361)
Bernard of Clairvaux, this like well-respected, well-revered monk, abbot, reformer, theologian, and they're just kind of rallying the troops and saying, guys, it's time to go back. It's time to take on the cause of the cross once again. It's time to support our brothers from all of the horrible things the Muslims are doing to them since Odessa has fallen. And so they head down. And last week, if you haven't listened, you should definitely go back. You get a lot more information, but...

Okay, I discussed that the journey itself led by the kings of Germany and the Franks, Conrad III and Louis VII, the journey kind of

Kind of goes terribly. they are really committed to following in the footsteps of the first crusaders. So they plan on traveling through Constantinople and then kind of heading through Anatolia and working their way down into Palestine. they, the, two armies, the Franks and the Germans are not communicating well. the Byzantine emperor, Manuel is like not jazzed at all about having this crusade go on. Cause that's really going to weaken, some

political moves that he's trying to make. So he's not like making it worse for them, but he's also not really helping a ton. The Crusaders also get wind that the emperor apparently made a truce, like a temporary truce with one of the Turkish leaders basically saying, hey, in case these Europeans get too rowdy, can you help us out? And of course the Europeans freak out when they find out about that, which another reason to not like the Greeks. And so

Yeah, Conrad's army arrives at Constantinople first. They leave without the French getting there, get mollywopped immediately. Conrad gets injured. They have to go back to Constantinople. Then Louis shows up. They head south through Anatolia. Few skirmishes, take heavy losses, eventually sail to Outremer, but it's just real rocky. It is not a good start. It is not a good start. And

GOBBA GOOL (16:25.646)
Did you figure out how many of the forces they left on the shore to die?

Jim Salmon (16:31.345)
like proportionately, I don't know. I don't know like numbers of how many people died. I believe that Louis really only took like the high ranking officers with him. So I think it was a lot of like infantry men that were left behind and either killed by Turks or starved to death because that's how bad they were on resources. So bad time. So

GOBBA GOOL (16:46.606)
Peace.

GOBBA GOOL (16:54.734)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (16:59.129)
really the, the, the first big, terrible thing, which is going to tie into our little, Mexico missions trip example is, as we said, the, the state of Odessa is going to fall. So Jocelyn the second is the Prince. He's the, I believe the count of Odessa at that time. He's not even going to be in.

Odessa when it falls to Zengi and so that already is kind of raising some suspicion that this dude is not a super solid leader. Well in 1146 something possibly big is going to happen for Outremer, for the Crusaders that might signify a dub which is that Zengi, this massive significant very strategic leader of his dynasty is assassinated.

And so suddenly there's this big power struggle. There's this huge power vacuum that opens up and now people are kind of scrambling and Jocelyn's like, shoot, this is my opportunity. And so on a whim with like very little support from the other crusader states, he just scrambles together his army and bolts back to Odessa and very, very quickly they're able to retake the capital.

of the state.

GOBBA GOOL (18:20.608)
Okay, that is a little bit of a dub. All right. Okay. Yeah, I heard it wasn't a like, didn't like a peasant boy or something kill Zangied? The slave? Yeah.

Jim Salmon (18:23.025)
Yeah, which is good. and so

Jim Salmon (18:31.209)
It was like a slave, I think. Yeah. It was totally, totally random. Yeah. It was a real, real interesting little, little thing. Very, very much. Yeah. There was like a, like a little story I read where like,

GOBBA GOOL (18:38.038)
Some real Assassin's Creed stuff.

Jim Salmon (18:46.117)
One of Zengi's servants came into his tent and found him mortally wounded. And like, it was very Assassin's Creed where like, Zengi like puts his hands up to defend himself because he thinks that servant was the one that stabbed him. And the servant like runs and kind of like cradles him in his arms and Zengi's trying to talk, but he can't speak. And you know, the servant like prays over him and he dies in his arms. Like it's very, very Assassin's Creed. And so,

GOBBA GOOL (19:11.949)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (19:16.231)
Jocelyn is able to successfully retake his city. Remember the city is full of Armenians who have a very kind of non-orthodox, non-Catholic.

version of Christianity, but they're able to kind of conspire with the Armenians in Edessa. They storm the capital, they breach the walls, and even though the Muslims are going to kind of gather in the main citadel at the center of the city, the Crusaders will have retaken the city itself. Finally, a good omen for the Crusaders. I wonder how long this is going to last.

GOBBA GOOL (19:52.938)
I thought you said that, and I hate to do this, but I thought you said last episode that they killed all the Christians in Edessa.

Jim Salmon (19:55.763)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (20:01.063)
Yeah, that's going to happen in about two weeks. Yeah. So this, this dub is, quite short-lived. Yes, quite. so Zengi's son and future successor, a man by the name of Nur-Adeen who, is going to become maybe one of the, what's up? It's a very Arabic name. Do you remember that we, we knew a Nur, remember? Didn't we?

GOBBA GOOL (20:03.726)
OHHHHMMM

GOBBA GOOL (20:20.814)
Now that, that is an Arabic name.

Did we? Noor. you're right. Yeah, noor. He was our Moroccan hookah bar owner. Dude, OK, we have to we have to tell a 30 second story. So this guy owned the most hole in the wall. Amazing little hookah spot to just go hang out. He never wanted to turn the AC below 80.

Jim Salmon (20:30.683)
Nor, yeah, probably the same name. Yeah. And where did we know Nor from Taylor?

Jim Salmon (20:45.82)
Okay.

Jim Salmon (20:52.349)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (20:58.272)
And we would be like, Noor, it's hot. And he'd be like, just go get the water. And he literally meant go walk in the back of the shop where customers are not supposed to go and get. And then we would get up and go get our water. And they'd be like, hey, can you get me one too, please?

Jim Salmon (21:06.217)
Take a water.

Jim Salmon (21:14.185)
He was awesome. He was the best.

GOBBA GOOL (21:16.566)
It was the best. And then my favorite time is when we all walked in and it was dead. It was dead. It was the middle of summer. There was no one in there. And our whole crew of like 15 guys rolls in and he literally goes, the Christians are here.

Jim Salmon (21:31.153)
See, were honestly, I think we were repaving a broken, a cultural rift. I think that's a big deal.

GOBBA GOOL (21:38.094)
All right. This shift that we're reading about right now is the shift that we were repairing.

Jim Salmon (21:42.154)
That's... We're trying to undo generational rifts. That's right. That's high. One double apple at a time. If you know, you know. I'm a lemon mint guy. All right. So Nur al-Addin is probably going to be the greatest Muslim...

GOBBA GOOL (21:47.086)
Undo the crusades. One hookah at a time.

Jim Salmon (22:06.467)
military leader until we get to Saladin in the Third Crusade. He's a very strategic guy. He's honestly got a penchant for brutality and diplomacy. So he's very strategic. He knows kind of when to go heavy. He knows when to pull it back. He's a really smart guy. And so he's still kind of rallying for the throne after his father dies. And so he needs to do something very quickly to kind

show that he's the top dog. And so when he finds out that Jocelyn the second has wormed his way back into his city and not even fully conquered it, because like I said, the Citadel is still full of the Muslim garrison. He's like, this is my cause. This is what I'm going to do. And so he, it said that he ran his armies so fast from,

GOBBA GOOL (22:55.029)
no.

Jim Salmon (23:05.007)
was it from? Aleppo to Edessa so fast that the horses that they rode on were passing out from exhaustion was how quickly he was getting over there. But they got inside

GOBBA GOOL (23:07.469)
Okay.

Jim Salmon (23:18.575)
They swarmed the city, caught Jocelyn completely off guard, and sandwiched the Christians between the Muslim fighters on the outside and those inside the citadel. And Jocelyn and his men retreated, fleeing from the city, leaving the citizens vulnerable, nor deciding to make an example, which is not what happened when they first took Edessa. When the Muslims first took Edessa, they were like, all right, you guys got some Christians here. You guys know how to play ball.

Let's just agree to disagree on the theological matters and let's just be good citizens, okay? This time around he did not feel that merciful and he decided to slaughter every Christian male in the city and every woman and child was made into a slave.

GOBBA GOOL (23:56.878)
Uggh... Uggh...

GOBBA GOOL (24:08.034)
Mmm.

Jim Salmon (24:09.753)
most of them carried out as refugees into nearby cities. The city was made into essentially a smoking ghost town full of dead bodies and broken churches.

GOBBA GOOL (24:21.482)
So they like raised Odessa.

Jim Salmon (24:23.357)
They literally tore down the walls, the walls of the city. They nuked that place.

GOBBA GOOL (24:30.414)
If I can't have it, nobody can.

Jim Salmon (24:33.357)
That's right. Well, it's more like I can have it, but still nobody can. So, so imagine, you know, your, your Conrad or your Lewis, you're coming back from this hellish journey that where you faced so many more casualties than you expected. And then when you arrive in.

GOBBA GOOL (24:39.272)
Yeah, yeah,

Jim Salmon (24:55.377)
the crusader states you realize that the main objective you had, the main place you were coming to like bring support to they're like, yeah. So Odessa is not really a thing anymore. Like Odessa is kind of gone. So again, another huge blow to morale, which is just real rough, real rough.

GOBBA GOOL (25:09.399)
Wow.

GOBBA GOOL (25:18.678)
And then this is where the well since you guys are here.

Jim Salmon (25:21.381)
Yes, exactly. that's where just the politics gets so weird. Like that's where, yeah, you get everybody and their brother being like, whoa, you guys.

guys looking to do some fighting. I, I, I certainly have a couple of causes you could, you could support me in if you're interested. And so, the Crusaders finally gather and out reamer. think, Lewis sailed to Antioch and, Conrad to acre, or I might've gotten those two mixed up and essentially they realized they have to pivot.

They have to figure out a new thing, which is not easy. One of the stories that I did, that I did kind of like, and this is, think Lewis is probably my favorite figure here. Cause, if you guys remember when we talked about the first crusade, we talked about how like there's the pious Peters and there's the, what do we call them? Like hungry Harry's or the, you know, the murderous marks. Like there's what was it?

GOBBA GOOL (26:14.094)
Yeah.

I don't remember.

Jim Salmon (26:17.577)
It was like there's like the dudes who were like really about the pilgrimage and those who are Basically just trying to get territory for themselves or prestige or whatever? Lewis I think was really like about it. He was about the pilgrimage. So when he shows up He was he was a pious Peter when he shows up and all these and all these out remarry ins are like

GOBBA GOOL (26:23.138)
Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (26:32.831)
He was a pious Peter.

Jim Salmon (26:41.693)
Hey, you know, now that you're here, let's do this, let's do that. And he's just like, back off dorks. Like he's like, we are here for a pilgrimage before we do anything. We are, I am taking my people to Jerusalem. We're going to pray at the church of Holy Sepulcher. We're going to, we're going to do our, do our spiritual duties first. Which I thought was kind of cool. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (27:03.095)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (27:05.105)
eventually they will all return to Acre where they will hold a council and this is basically where this this is an interesting council because you've got all kinds of people involved you've got comrade the third louis the seventh you've got teary counts of flanders you've got honry the first counts of champagne you got a bunch of bishops and archbishops You have leaders from jerusalem. You have the grand masters of the knight's hospitaler and the knight's

Jim Salmon (27:58.78)
Like you've got the, you've got the, you've got the principality of Antioch. You've got Tripoli. You've got the kingdom of Jerusalem. And then of course you had a Dessa, which was just, which was just raised to the ground.

All of them are kind of like in loose cooperation with each other, but they're also kind of rivals, which again kind of conjures to mind that like, was this a unified effort to bring Christian support to this region or was it just an extension of Western fiefdom that already existed in Europe? Is it just a bunch of dudes reporting to their lords and squabbling over territory regardless of their religious convictions? I think that's where it kind of muddies.

GOBBA GOOL (28:21.08)
No, no, no.

Jim Salmon (28:43.283)
the water a little bit here. And so you've got Raymond of Poitiers, he's the prince of Antioch, he's gonna basically say you guys should attack Aleppo, this is the capital of where Noradine's empire is, but also Aleppo was the biggest threat to Antioch's livelihood and he did not like that.

Another weird thing is that there is a theory which does not seem to be substantiated. It seems like even the historians who talk about it are like there are different reports that, Louis, Louis the seventh, the king of France, his wife was Raymond's niece and his wife, when they got to Outremer kind of ran off to Antioch to see her uncle. And apparently they had a,

kerfuffle or maybe they they interact they they knew each other in the biblical sense i guess i should say

GOBBA GOOL (29:44.598)
What the heck?

Jim Salmon (29:45.532)
Yeah. And so, there's, are theories that this soured Lewis's relationship with Raymond also Antioch, which led to him not wanting to do that. There's literally a story of him having to drag his wife out of the city, against her will because she wants to hang out with, with uncle Raymond. So real, real strange.

GOBBA GOOL (30:05.55)
That's horrifying.

Jim Salmon (30:11.271)
The county of Tripoli was kind caught up in their own political junk at the time, so they weren't even there. So really a lot of the leverage goes to Jerusalem. Jerusalem is also in its own spat because it's got two leaders. It's got Baldwin the third and his mom, Mellis end. They've got this very medieval European situation where the king died and his heir was his son, but his son was too young to rule. So his wife ruled in

but now his son is old enough to rule and he wants to assert himself, but the Queen, his mom, doesn't want to relinquish that. So Jerusalem is literally about to fall into a civil war over these two squabbles between Baldwin and Melisand. And so both of them are trying to leverage the presence of the Crusaders to say, well, what can I do to essentially...

build more support for what I'm doing and kind of, you know, dismiss what mom's doing or dismiss what my son is doing.

GOBBA GOOL (31:15.832)
So does the church have any say in anything that's happening over here?

Jim Salmon (31:21.945)
I mean, like there's like a billion bishops and archbishops at this council meeting, but I don't know if they, if they're more than just decorative roles. don't know. This, this is, it's politics. Politics is what's happening right now. So yeah, I don't know. It's, it gets, it gets icky.

So at the council, they talk about two possible ideas to attack because the desk is no longer viable. talk about Ascalon, which is a port city outside of Jerusalem. It's often under Muslim control. It be very strategic if

the Christians could take that or Damascus which was a city with lots of cultural relevance with lots of trade opportunities with abundant in you know resources and the Christians are all like well we want to go to Damascus because Damascus actually has significance for cultural Christianity Ascalon's just like whatever Baldwin the third also wasn't interested in Ascalon because

He was in conflict with his mom and his younger brother was a count at a city near Ascalon and he knew that if they got Ascalon under Christian control, it was only going to bolster his brother who was in favor of his mom. So again, politics. It's all very messy. It's all very messy.

GOBBA GOOL (32:45.366)
Wow. And this is all related to trying to figure out what this army is going to go do.

Jim Salmon (32:50.846)
Exactly, So.

What they do is they finally agree on Damascus. And like I said, Damascus has a deep Christian history, you know, before the Muslims and the huge Arabic conquest in the seventh century. Damascus was historically very Christians, where the Syrian Christians were, think of like John of Damascus, very lots of, you know, Syriac tradition there, Orthodox tradition there. No, that's John Chrysostom.

GOBBA GOOL (33:18.996)
It's John of Damascus the Golden Tongue.

GOBBA GOOL (33:25.912)
What's John of Damascus this whole thing?

Jim Salmon (33:28.073)
He was a Syrian Christian who argued in favor of the images in the Akana class controversy. Yeah. And another strategy they had was that this new, this Damascus was not owned by

Noor-Ad-Din's dynasty yet. So they were like, this is a great place to like, we could, if we could get Christian control over it, then that could hopefully mean we can bolster it and prevent Noor from growing and expanding his territory. The problem was Damascus was owned by a Islamic caliphate that was actually kind of cooperative with the Christians and that they had been in alliances with kind of

and on for a while so suddenly deciding to like have a massive siege there when they were like whoa I thought we were cool is a little odd here's a quote from

Primary source William of Tyre Just kind of speaking a little bit about Damascus as we get into the siege So Damascus is the largest city of Lesser Syria and is its metropolis for as it is said Damascus is the head of Syria

The city is also known as the Phoenicia of Lebanon and is named after a certain servant of Abraham who is believed to have founded it. The name means bloody or dripping with gore. The city is located on a plain in a land which is barren and arid save where it is irrigated by waters brought down for its benefit through ancient canals. A stream descends from a nearby mountain ridge in the highlands of that area and is channeled through the various lower sections of the region so as to fertilize the barren fields.

Jim Salmon (35:20.011)
Since there is an abundance of water, the surplus is used to nourish the orchards of fruit trees, which are located on either side of the stream. So, when it comes to strategy, our good friend, historian Christopher Tyerman believes that the goal for the Crusaders will essentially come in hot and come in fast.

and they're basically like either take the city like immediately or just freak them out with how much force and how much manpower we have and make them surrender.

Some of the reasons for that are because they didn't bring any sieging equipment with them. They plans on making it from by cutting down the trees outside the orchards outside the city. and they brought very few rations with them. So they kind of were like, all right, let's just, let's get this done. Boys. Come on. We got a few minutes. We can get this in and out. Let's get back to Europe. You know, we got, we got Christmas coming up soon. so

The rationale is kind of like they just thought it was going to be a really quick turnaround thing and it absolutely wasn't. They fought with the city of Damascus with the the guard for two days of hard battle and it seems like they were making almost zero progress in overwhelming them.

And it was at this point that the Crusaders made probably the gravest mistake of this entire attempts to siege, which was they said, well, where we're at, the defenses on the walls are really strong. What if we relocate to an area where maybe their defense is a little bit weaker and we can try to penetrate that way instead?

Jim Salmon (37:06.385)
What they ended up doing though was relocating to an area outside the city that had zero cover and didn't have any water. Because where they were was where the streams were around the orchards. And so basically now they're in an area where they're completely vulnerable to archers, where they have even fewer resources and supplies and...

Pretty much as soon as they got over there, the Damascenes were able to retake the area that they were at previously. So now they're like, my gosh, what the heck are we supposed to do? And, to make it even worse, they also got word that the head of, that the ruler of Damascus had reached out to Nur-ad-din.

GOBBA GOOL (37:35.694)
Mmm.

GOBBA GOOL (37:40.366)
you

Jim Salmon (37:55.356)
a Muslim ruler who he was not even alive with at this time and basically said, could you help me get rid of these crusaders? So not only are they not making any progress with this siege, but they're also about to get hit from two different directions by two other Muslim armies that are going to come and basically surround them. It's a Mosul and Aleppo. So it's Nur ad-Din and his brother who were both kind of fighting for, for their dad's role. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (38:14.978)
Who's the other two?

GOBBA GOOL (38:23.288)
brown.

Jim Salmon (38:25.765)
And so literally four days into the siege, the mission was abandoned. Their crusaders abandon, they retreat back to Jerusalem and all the way going back home, they're just attacked by just volleys of arrows and like random little hoards of Turkish soldiers. They take super heavy casualties and it's like a massive embarrassment.

GOBBA GOOL (38:26.256)
Wow.

Jim Salmon (38:52.945)
They were expecting like relics and miracles and all the cool stories that they heard from the first crusade and they just felt completely embarrassed and humiliated.

GOBBA GOOL (39:05.464)
the that Grandpappy came home telling.

Jim Salmon (39:07.911)
Yeah. And now they've got some very different stories to tell, which super sucks. Yeah. So.

GOBBA GOOL (39:11.949)
Wow.

GOBBA GOOL (39:16.695)
And that's like, and so ends the second crusade.

Jim Salmon (39:20.361)
Yeah, mean, on a military level, yeah, pretty much. mean, there's some interesting theories. So this is where things probably just go get even worse, not on a military level, but when they get back, they just all immediately start pointing figures at each other. My favorite story of disorganization is that as they're going back, they're like, okay, but this is fine. We can still attack.

Ascalon right because that was an option like Damascus didn't work, but we could still attack this other town, right? And so Conrad the third with his German army gets back to Jerusalem and they're like, all right, cool We'll just all regather here and then we'll attack this new town and he waits there for eight days and barely anybody shows up and he's like, I'm so sick of this

GOBBA GOOL (40:11.372)
Nobody came to my birthday party.

Jim Salmon (40:12.529)
He's like, I'm freaking out of here. He's like, I'm so upset. I'm so angry, but they all start pointing fingers. And one of the big conspiracies, this is the big like conspiracy is that they believe that the leaders from inside Damascus had basically sent messengers to some of the crusaders and said, what are you guys doing? Like you're going to retake this city. They're not going to give it to you.

Like this is, the Europeans are in charge here. They're going to take this for themselves. They're not going to do this for you. So you're gonna, you're what? You're killing your own men so that...

so that you can just give give France and Germany more free territory. This isn't for you. You guys are getting you guys getting bamboozled right now. And they think that there was like some basically some some moles in the camp who were kind of sabotaging things from the inside that hasn't been proven. And that's nothing but speculation. But there are reports that they were basically

GOBBA GOOL (41:17.611)
It's just like the, let us go over there where there is snow water and snow cover. Yes, that is much better spot.

Jim Salmon (41:24.585)
That's literally what it was. They're looking back and they're like, why did we go over there? It's like, well, cause Jeff said, well, Jeff said that Rick told them was a good idea. Yeah. So it's just, it's nothing but, it's nothing but finger pointing. yeah, it's a, it's a bad time. So. The crusade was over. I've got another quote from,

GOBBA GOOL (41:36.12)
Right.

Jim Salmon (41:48.872)
from William of Tyre on the close of the second crusade. He says, Thus a company of kings and princes such as we have not read of through all the ages had gathered, and for our sins had been forced to return, covered with shame and disgrace with their mission unfulfilled.

Jim Salmon (42:17.644)
And then he basically says that like

this really impacted the relationship between the Crusader states and Europe because they didn't trust each other anymore and it said that it was so bad that for 30 years very few pilgrims would actually make pilgrimage down from Europe into the the holy city because they were like nah they're not that's not that's not fam anymore

GOBBA GOOL (42:43.63)
Wow, okay

Jim Salmon (42:48.124)
sorry.

Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (42:52.12)
Dang. So this is... Does other land start falling at this point with the rise of the Aldeens?

Jim Salmon (43:04.195)
Ooh, that's a good question. So they are going to take Damascus within, I think, five years of this failed siege. But it's really interesting, the story about how Nur-A-Din takes it.

GOBBA GOOL (43:16.744)
so de-ma- so he takes it from the other caliphate. Okay.

Jim Salmon (43:20.231)
He does. Yeah. Which is exactly, I mean, that's the thing. Like the, the ideal thing was if you've got another, if you've got a rival of your rival who owns this really valuable territory, you could consider allying with him. So at least the big boss doesn't get it, but they essentially weakened him. and

threw away any possibility for an alliance. And Nur ad-Din, this is actually one of his more interesting accomplishments because he's going to take over Damascus by word of mouth, essentially. He's going to get so many, like he's going to influence the kind of public opinion of the Damascenes who are mostly Muslim and kind of be like, yo, this guy sounds like a much better ruler.

GOBBA GOOL (43:48.428)
Yep. Yep.

Jim Salmon (44:13.009)
And they're essentially gonna like, like their armies are gonna show up outside the walls and the people are just gonna open the gates to them. Yeah, it's like the most diplomatic thing. And for them, it's a big deal because they're like, what a blessing to not have to shed Muslim blood because they see each other as like, you know, kin. So.

GOBBA GOOL (44:19.307)
Come on in!

GOBBA GOOL (44:29.261)
Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (44:33.378)
So the Crusaders, Europe's presence at this point, because what? This is like five decades of Europe being there. It's like uniting the Muslims.

Jim Salmon (44:41.768)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (44:46.665)
Pretty much. And like I said, I think it's the Burghid or the Burghid dynasty, that's the one that had Damascus before the Zengids took it. They had off and on alliances. That's the thing. There's always going to be these tiny little temporary alliances between especially the smaller Islamic dynasties with the Christians, really just for political reasons. But I think the reason that kind of

GOBBA GOOL (44:48.194)
Wow.

Jim Salmon (45:15.9)
complicates.

the narrative of it was Christian versus Muslim, was the sanctified versus the pagans and all that stuff is, that's not really what's happening. Like there's a lot of just political alliances, very strategic and pragmatic things going on. It's really not just like constant battles of Muslims versus Christians. That's not really the case. And there are definitely political rivalries between Muslims and also between Christians.

GOBBA GOOL (45:42.956)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (45:47.179)
and sometimes it leads to bloodshed. So yeah, it's a little tricky.

GOBBA GOOL (45:53.228)
I think something that we haven't talked about, I think it's really impressive though, that some guys from Europe basically marched over to the Middle East and took a large chunk of it. And we're like, this is ours now.

Jim Salmon (46:08.157)
Maybe we, you know what, looking back from the second crusade, maybe that really does kind of show the first crusade was kind of, they were kind of, they're kind of cooking, you know? They weren't cooking, they weren't cooking righteousness, but they were cooking, you know, some dubs. Yeah, cooking something, you know.

GOBBA GOOL (46:18.956)
Yeah, I'm not saying what they were cooking was good. I'm just saying. Right.

Myth.

Yeah, I mean, it is rather impressive, but it is also impressive how bad they've managed to fumble, right? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I like the idea that there was like sabotage in. So basically, you're saying that theory probably exists because they made such bad decisions consecutively that they're like, this can't

Jim Salmon (46:40.251)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (46:49.523)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (46:57.255)
Yes.

GOBBA GOOL (46:59.234)
be like they fumbled so hard that yeah

Jim Salmon (47:02.651)
And so often bro, that's the thing. Like literally every decision made post when Conrad and Lewis traveled through Constantinople is questionable. Like why Conrad tried to go right through Anatolia and just got smacked in the face by Seljuk arrows.

GOBBA GOOL (47:17.197)
Yep.

Jim Salmon (47:24.039)
bad call why Lewis tried to swing through southern Anatolia. Like there's just so many decisions that historians are like, who the heck was feeding them this bad intel? And so yeah, I think it is possible, but also I think they were also just, I don't know, foolhardy, inexperienced. I mean, like we talked in the first, the, about the first crusade, like there were like

GOBBA GOOL (47:35.126)
Yeah, yeah

Jim Salmon (47:49.99)
Okay, I'm not gonna call them miracles like God ordained them, but there were some buzzer-beaters that happened. Like some really un- like holy smokes, how did they pull that off? Which means that even when they did it, it was by the skin of their teeth. This is what, maybe nine times out of ten, what happens here is what would have happened during the first crusade 50 years prior.

GOBBA GOOL (47:58.136)
Yeah. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (48:15.69)
Mm, yeah. Maybe they were arrogant. Like, they thought, hey, we already, well, we did this 50 years ago. We'll be fine. I don't know. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (48:17.769)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (48:26.857)
Exactly. Yeah, I think that's exactly what it was. I think they were like, we've got more people than we had last time. But again, like one of the big problems was that during the first crusade, the Seljuks and Byzantines had been beaten the heck out of each other. So they were both kind of shell shocked. So they, they were much more prepared to handle the, the Franks than they were 50 years before.

GOBBA GOOL (48:51.936)
it sounds like it. If Neuraldean's like getting to cities within days to wipe them out, mean... Yeah.

Jim Salmon (48:59.847)
Yeah, they knew what they were doing. Yeah, when they, so it's so sad, like when we heard the stories of the first crusaders coming back to Europe, it's like parades and like people are like, this holy righteous warrior of the Lord. It's the opposite the second time around. Well, okay, I won't generalize. For some it's like...

You tried your best and you failed, sorry. It's not the worst. Some leaders came back and they were like, it wasn't in the cards, know? God wasn't feeling it that day. But for like the average crusader, it's like Vietnam vets, bro. It's like, what were you idiots doing? you guys were probably too busy fornicating. That's why God judged you like this. You guys are a bunch of dumb sinners and that's why.

GOBBA GOOL (49:42.35)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (49:54.19)
Jeez. So they came back to like being spit on basically.

Jim Salmon (49:59.946)
Yeah, they were in embarrassment. Like I think there was a quote from William of Tyre I read who was a like modern scholar, a contemporary scholar during this time. And he's like, this was the most embarrassing thing to happen to a Christian nation like ever. Like it was awful. There was a German monk.

who called the organizers of the crusade and its recruits, quote, pseudo prophets, sons of Belial and witnesses of Antichrist who seduced Christians with empty words.

GOBBA GOOL (50:32.846)
He's talking about Bernie.

Jim Salmon (50:35.059)
Yes, yes. Yeah. And dude, I don't know who Bernard of Clairvaux's like PR guy was, but the fact that he still relatively got off scot-free. think during his life, he got some negativity, but it's like he died and the Cistercians were just like, remember how much we all love Bernard? He was a great guy, huh? yeah, he was super cool. And everyone just forgot about it. Yeah.

Yeah, was a bad, it was a bad time. I did read a quote that I thought was really interesting. This is by a Muslim chronicler during the time. This is him talking about the great victory that happened at Damascus where he says, the Franks went down into the valley and ate much of the crop.

This is outside of Damascus. And this crop gave them dysentery. Many died of it, and all the others were ill. The people of Damascus, however, were in great need, but gave alms of what they had, each in proportion to his possessions. The whole population, men, women, and children, assembled in the great mosque. Uthman's Quran was displayed, and the people sprinkled their head with ashes and wept tears of supplication. And God heard their prayers.

So like, it's real interesting to me that Muslims are using that same kind of language of like, the people were pious, they put their hearts and prayers to God, and because they did the right thing, God saw them through and gave them a great victory, which is something that we saw crusaders talk about during the first crusade.

GOBBA GOOL (52:00.599)
Yep.

GOBBA GOOL (52:16.384)
Yeah, the Muslims are just using the same, literally like the same words basically. There's a lot of pooping in the crusades.

Jim Salmon (52:22.257)
Yeah. Yeah. It's like when, I think it's just the medieval, the, the, middle ages, dude, that's just the bowels are not as sturdy as, as we would hope.

GOBBA GOOL (52:32.886)
Yeah. Well, part of me wonders if they're making it up to make them look bad. Be like, they died because they pooped themselves to death. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's got to be what it is. I don't know. Yeah. that's wild. Well, you know, though, I mean,

Jim Salmon (52:43.827)
That's right. They ate some fruit and they gave them to some dairy and they all died of it. Yeah. It's just a common slanderous tactic, I guess.

GOBBA GOOL (53:02.158)
You never want to hear a sad story, but I feel like the Crusades are just sad stories, so.

Jim Salmon (53:09.393)
That's not fun. Yeah. yeah. It seemed like it was kind of a failed effort from the beginning. But I think, I think what you said hit the nail, hits the nail on the head. I think they were wanting to replicate the glory of their fathers and grandfathers. They wanted, they wanted to, to live in what the first crusade was. I think I just underestimated what that was going to take.

GOBBA GOOL (53:34.954)
Right. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (53:40.334)
Well, good job. I obviously I know we had said last episode I was going to do this and then I called you and I was like, I do not have an ounce of time. And you were like, I got you dog. You did great job.

Jim Salmon (53:51.242)
That's okay, man. That's all right. I do, and I did. So, yeah, man, I got you. So are we gonna take another little break from the Crusades for a couple weeks? I've got a couple ideas. I think some of them might be really fun.

GOBBA GOOL (54:07.734)
not going to say no. I literally like I feel like for I feel like for both of us for everyone involved you, me, the listeners, we're just kind of like, we can only take so much crusading before we need a palate cleanser.

Jim Salmon (54:09.097)
You can say no.

Jim Salmon (54:19.625)
You

Yeah, I wanna talk about something fun. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (54:26.518)
Yeah, something nice. Here's a nice part of church history. Yeah, well, I know. I say do it. I also say, if you guys haven't seen The Sheep Detective, go see The Sheep Detective.

Jim Salmon (54:30.511)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Okay.

Jim Salmon (54:41.449)
is that? That looked interesting. it? Like, hold on. Isn't that the one with like Hugh Jackman?

GOBBA GOOL (54:47.198)
Yeah, it's seen the key in Peel's kit when they're like they're talking about whatever Lame is and they're like it's got your man's Wolverines Yes

Jim Salmon (54:53.544)
huh.

Jim Salmon (54:58.681)
Okay, it looked kind of dumb, I'll be honest, from the trailer. Oh, so people like it. Okay, alright, okay, okay. Alright, alright. Didn't know, didn't know. Wasn't familiar with the game, alright. Alright, cool. Well, gang, thanks for walking through another crusade with us. It's always, well, I can't say it's always a good time. It's kind of...

GOBBA GOOL (55:02.35)
No way. No, dude, it's got like a 97 on Rotten Tomatoes. It's fantastic. It's so, yeah. So there you go, listeners.

GOBBA GOOL (55:14.733)
Yep.

GOBBA GOOL (55:24.598)
It's always a time.

Jim Salmon (55:25.673)
It's always a time, it's always a hard era in church history, but it's always a good time to have you guys with us. And it's always a good time to have you with us, Taylor.

GOBBA GOOL (55:31.64)
Yep.

I like it's when Patrick's holding up SpongeBob, but he's like, look at it. Look at it. And that's us with the crusades.

Jim Salmon (55:42.057)
I want all of you to look right at...

Jim Salmon (55:49.405)
good. That's really good. All right, gang. Well, we love you guys. We'll see you next week. Have a wonderful time and we'll see you next time.

GOBBA GOOL (55:51.466)
GOBBA GOOL (55:57.57)
Bye bye!

Jim Salmon (55:58.974)
Bye bye.