134. CHUMP TALK: Why Do Christians Love Conspiracy Theories?

Did you know that jet fuel can melt steel beams?

Or wait, it can't. 

I'm not sure anymore. 

People love conspiracy theories though. There's something very punk rock and anti-establishment about deciding that we don't accept the facts that we're being given.

But when does going down a quick YouTube rabbit hole for fun turn into something that may not be great for our hearts?

That's probably a good question to ask in this day and age. 

Join John and Taylor as we once again share ancient wisdom that can only flow from the mouths of podcasters. 

And if you HATED this topic, remember you can pick the next one! Check out the link below! 

Transcript

GOBBA GOOL (00:00.686)
Hey everybody, this is Chump Talk with Taylor and John, and I definitely did not have to have us restart the recording because John was trying to lie to all of you about somebody buying Chump Talk episodes.

Jim Salmon (00:17.524)
Hey guys. me and Taylor's had a pretty bad argument off the off the mic. let me just say there was no filter in what Taylor had to say to me. I don't mean that as an audio term. but I get it. I get it. Here's the thing, guys. We we have a perk that you guys can buy. executive produce an episode of Chump Talk, get to pick the episode, kind of talk about it with us. Nobody did this month.

GOBBA GOOL (00:21.42)
No now he's continuing his lies.

GOBBA GOOL (00:30.72)
Where is that even me?

Jim Salmon (00:45.906)
And so I made up a name. I think it was Rick Polgernick. And then Taylor said, If you don't turn those mics off right now, I swear I'm gonna reach reach through this screen

GOBBA GOOL (00:55.06)
No, because you changed his first name like three times in your lie.

Jim Salmon (00:59.868)
And I said, Taylor, I went out of the limb. I made a creative you know, I made a cu a creative guess, a creative a leap, and he hated it. And he he told me how he felt and I can only say thank you. So, yeah, but anyways.

GOBBA GOOL (01:13.974)
This is so exaggerated. Anyway, we are so grateful to record these once a month for you guys. This is just kind of where we we explore kinda random topics and we kinda we talk about random things and this month's or

Jim Salmon (01:22.888)
Very grateful.

Jim Salmon (01:27.848)
That's right.

Jim Salmon (01:31.57)
And the good news is, if you don't like the topic that we're doing, you can literally pick our topic. If you go to our buy me a coffee, sh link is in show notes. We would love to receive financial compensation and do whatever you want with you as a result. that's just the kind of people that we are, honestly. You give us money, we'll dance, we'll jump, you say jump, we say how high. Even though neither of us can jump very high because we we're kind of we're working on losing some weight.

GOBBA GOOL (01:46.734)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (01:57.398)
That's right.

We're working on it. It's it's it's big boy summer.

Jim Salmon (02:03.495)
How high can you jump, Taylor?

When's the last time you measured your your hops? Can you touch the rim of a basketball hoop? Can you touch the net?

GOBBA GOOL (02:10.838)
My vert Probably. Everyone every once Yes. Every once in a while every once in a while I get I get I'll see a beam or something like from a ceiling and I'll be like, I think I can touch it. Yeah. I don't know. I don't have I don't have pretty this is so off topic.

Jim Salmon (02:26.609)
Mm. Hit it. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (02:32.189)
That's okay. All right. So we have a great topic for us. I'm actually really excited to talk about it. And we you already know from the from the title of the episode. So I'm gonna I it's why do Christians believe in conspiracy theories? And of course, that was a little clickbaity, but I really want to talk about conspiracy theories just as a general topic. I mean it's

It's a really interesting time to b to to be a fan of them because one, there's you know, there's a billion six hour long YouTube videos that you could look at. But also, I mean, I think the whole Epstein case happening really did validate a lot of people who believed, you guys used to think it was so far fetched that that a a ring of wealthy elites could be could have like a a hidden system of abusing children, and turns out no, that was very valid.

so yeah, there's a lot of They're interesting. I think some are more interesting than others. I think stu some are pretty pretty whack. But yeah, let's let's talk about Taylor, what to you is a conspiracy theory?

GOBBA GOOL (03:41.858)
That's what's I think really hard to define right now because you can go to the moon is a base for the lizard people, or you can be like, COVID was manufactured in a lab in Wuhan.

Jim Salmon (03:45.725)
Okay.

Jim Salmon (03:55.421)
Fair, okay.

Jim Salmon (04:02.672)
Okay. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (04:04.606)
Or you can be like, I don't know, I'm pretty sure Yeah, okay. I'm pretty sure you guys know those honey mustard Snyder's pretzel bites? I am convinced they changed the recipe.

Jim Salmon (04:16.521)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (04:21.621)
They change recipes for stuff all the time. That's not a conspiracy.

GOBBA GOOL (04:21.708)
Hi Yeah, yeah, yeah, but they don't say anything. They don't say anything about it. I am convinced and I I hate the new ones. I f I you were not expecting this. You're like at a loss for words.

Jim Salmon (04:35.124)
I love it. No, no, this is good. I like this. I'm not mad at this at all.

GOBBA GOOL (04:40.534)
Yeah, so so you basically you have Taylor's pretzel ravings and all the way up to like, you know, Hollow Earth.

Jim Salmon (04:45.035)
huh.

Jim Salmon (04:50.354)
Yeah, yeah, there's the there's the lizard people ones, there's yeah the Holocaust never happened or the reports of the Holocaust are exaggerated. nine eleven was an inside job, that's of course an infamous one. yeah, you could it really does. It goes on and on. right.

GOBBA GOOL (05:07.149)
dude, I mean there's just the list just goes on. We didn't land on the moon.

Jim Salmon (05:14.62)
What's your what's your general stance? Like do you do you feel like you're kind of like, you know what? If someone if someone makes a compelling case, I'm willing to be convinced. Or are you kind of like, if it's if it feels fringe, if it feels like something a guy wearing a tinfoil hat has to tell me about, I'm I'm less likely to believe in it.

GOBBA GOOL (05:35.634)
I don't care if, you know, Zechariah the frog prophet that wears tinfoil hats and garbage bags says it. Like if he's if he says something of merit, I will listen. So that being said though, those types say so many crazy things that it's unfortunate that like just because you were right about one thing doesn't mean you're right about

Jim Salmon (05:44.169)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jim Salmon (05:56.34)
Sure.

GOBBA GOOL (06:06.026)
other things, you know. So I w what was your exact question? Did I answer it?

Jim Salmon (06:07.504)
Right. Right.

Jim Salmon (06:12.328)
Are like where do you are you the kind of person who is like curious or like interested about conspiracy theories, or do you tend to treat them with a pretty distant air of skepticism?

GOBBA GOOL (06:25.742)
I actu okay. I'm on the spot here. I never thought about this, but I think my I'm inclined to think I don't even really want to think about things as conspiracy theory or not. Like I don't want to use that categorization. I would rather just look at every truth claim and say, is this true or not? 'Cause I think conspiracy theories used to mean there's a widespread cover up of something.

Jim Salmon (06:52.53)
Yes, yes. I don't think it's just like this is something cryptic happening. It's usually it's it's usually like got roots in the government or like a world government or a inter species government. Yeah, something like that.

GOBBA GOOL (06:57.186)
That nobody knows about.

GOBBA GOOL (07:01.972)
Yes.

GOBBA GOOL (07:06.262)
Yeah, like the powers at B are hiding something. okay, well if we're using that definition, I I don't put anything past the powers at be, but I also I'm pretty open to any truth claim. I'm willing to explore it. What about you?

Jim Salmon (07:09.105)
Exactly.

Jim Salmon (07:19.492)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I you know, we we did an episode where we talked about our process for researching episodes on on our podcast. And one of the things I said, which I still think to this day is very core to how I ingest information, is always, always, always believe that there is someone who is trying to lie to you. here's the thing, and I believe this with every every ounce of my intellect.

There are people out there who are far gone flat earthers who know more about like astronomy, biology, science, whatever, who could probably say things that sound very smart that I probably can't refute. But the thing is, I don't want to learn so much about that world that doesn't really interest me to disprove what flat earthers have to say.

I would rather look and say, what does the general science community have to say about this? And are they reliable? Because if they, full of doctors and research based fields and positions, are able to look at night in a an idea and dispute it, that means a lot to me. Like I don't care so much if Rudy Giuliani says I don't th says that nine eleven wasn't an inside job. I care a lot more about

the architects and the civil engineers who observed the way that those towers fell and were like, this is consistent with the attacks that happened, not just with a demolition attempt. So I just I'm just very wary. I'm very wary because I I'm I think that facts are so easy to twist out of context. and because I don't have a deep, deep background knowledge in an

GOBBA GOOL (09:05.462)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (09:19.652)
infinite infinite number of topics, I just assume that I can talk to somebody who believes something kind of wack-a-doodle and probably convince me because I'm just not that smart.

GOBBA GOOL (09:31.438)
I tend to not value authority so much well you said two things. You said two things kinda. 'Cause you did like the appeal to authority, but then you did like the appeal to expertise, which I guess can be similar things. But I I think in the nine eleven ex example, like all the civil engineers looking at that, going, Well, this is how it happened I mean, like I can describe to you

Jim Salmon (09:43.891)
Mm-hmm.

Sure. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (09:59.49)
how the building fell and like here's why this guy's wrong. You're kinda like, okay, that yeah, that that makes more sense. but I do also think we want to be cautious for people that want to maintain I think people generally want to maintain the status quo. But then I also there's also people that just want to upset the status quo at all clo cost.

Jim Salmon (10:16.798)
Sure, of course.

Jim Salmon (10:23.316)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (10:23.998)
So I don't know. I mean it's it's hard. It's hard to like use discernment to know, hey, when do I trust this expert and when do I make a dis like when do I say, you know what? I'm not buying it. And we talked kind of at the end of the episode of the last episode, kinda, you know, the Episcopalian scholar is gonna come to a vastly different conclusion than the conservative Presbyterian scholar when it comes to like New Testament studies.

Jim Salmon (10:50.3)
Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they're gonna place weight on different on different sources, on different, you know, places to get info from. Yeah. My thing is like in the the way that we're getting fed short nuggets of information on a daily basis right now, it feels so easy. If like if like ninety five percent of the videos that we watch today are probably a minute and a half or shorter, like

GOBBA GOOL (10:53.496)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (11:19.848)
those are so that that's such an easy capsule to just shove a bunch of misinformed stuff into and just feed it to the masses. But to make it sound really captivating. Like I mean like not not no shots at Joe Rogan. Joe, thanks for being a friend of the show. but like you know, I remember when Joe Rogan got really big on the carnivore diet, which I know can work for for certain people, not work so well for other people.

GOBBA GOOL (11:37.419)
Jim Salmon (11:48.905)
But now you've got people who are now you've got influencers who are making claims about this diet strictly based off of like research that is not consistent. And so when I hear that, I don't think, well, time to do my research on on on nutrition stuff. No, I talk to a friend who's a nutritionist and he says, Yeah, it might work for some people, but for the vast majority, it's not gonna work. It's actually gonna it could actually make you really sick. So it's not so much like an appeal to

Like I'm just looking to some like government branch to do the information for me, 'cause of course those can be compromised, but it's like but I'll look to the smarter person to fill in the gaps that I have, I guess.

GOBBA GOOL (12:32.342)
Well, my issue is when particularly when it comes to like geologists, my my my issue and what would you call the people that like like do like the like genetic history and all that?

Jim Salmon (12:43.262)
Ha ha ha.

Jim Salmon (12:56.754)
Archaeologists.

GOBBA GOOL (12:58.188)
Not just archaeologists, but essentially like i if you look even slightly deep into some of this stuff, it's really bad. This is me like like so for example, you know how there's supposedly like subspecies of humans that we've discovered that were like branches? Dude, some of them are like from the tiniest of bone fragments and they construct entire looking people out of it. This is just facts.

Jim Salmon (13:14.548)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (13:25.38)
Mm-hmm. Right.

GOBBA GOOL (13:27.51)
Like they have the tiniest bone fragment and they're like, Well, this is what they might have looked like. And then they put it in a children's science book. And like you're basically indoctrinating middle schoolers. Now I sound like the conspiracy theorist, but like you're indoctrinating middle schoolers on this based off of very little information. And I think this ties back into our discussion on relics. So you have like the religious version of that where they're like, Yeah, this was the

Jim Salmon (13:49.492)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (13:53.87)
cross that Jesus died on. This is a fragment of it. It's like, okay, do you have any proof? Well, not really.

Jim Salmon (14:00.916)
the differences now the Baptists are the Catholics. Cause you're the ones that the scientific community can't back your claims.

GOBBA GOOL (14:06.412)
Yeah, sure. huh.

GOBBA GOOL (14:12.854)
Yeah. Well look, all I'm just we just wanna be we just wanna be able to find what's true. I think nobody really disagrees with that statement. That's but but the question is how do you find it? And I I'm just really hesitant when it comes to trusting any voices of authority because they all have their own agenda too.

Jim Salmon (14:21.288)
Of course.

Jim Salmon (14:25.086)
For sure.

Jim Salmon (14:34.14)
I mean, maybe. I mean if if someone so let's go back to like the nutrition example. If I've talked to someone who has four years of studies of nutrition and knows all about proteins and carbs and sugars and how they interact with the b with the body and they stay read up on peer reviewed studies and all that kind of stuff. Like, who who is where is the quote unquote ulterior motive coming from? Like

Who who's feeding them bat feeding? who's who's giving them bad information? Like where does where is that pipeline getting corrupted information from?

Like that's I think my question. It's like if you got people who are just studying stuff independently, and can come to these conclusions. I mean, you know, I had I had a couple of friends who got really deep into the kind of anti vax thing for a while. And I know that's a very, very passionate thing that a lot of people hold too, and I wanna say there's room in chump nation for all beliefs around most of these topics we're talking about. So please don't feel like I'm I'm trying to ostracize

anyone but when that topic came up my thought was well I have friends who are doctors and I have friends who you know work with who work with vaccines like I can talk to them. It's a lot easier than me doing research and it's a lot better than me listening to a bunch of people who have already come to their conclusion and now are trying are now explicitly trying to indoctrinate me. At least the doctor thinks they're being objective right

GOBBA GOOL (16:12.504)
There's something baked into what you're saying. And I'm surprised you haven't said it. No, it's the that your friends. You have a r you have the relationship. So you so you trust their character.

Jim Salmon (16:15.604)
Yeah I'm sure there is, yeah. What is it? Yeah, exactly. It's it's communal. Yeah. For sure.

And yeah, I think that that's a big part of it, yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (16:29.824)
Yeah, that's it. One hundred percent. I don't trust Dr. Fauci as far as I can throw him. Which not very far.

Jim Salmon (16:32.488)
Mm-hmm.

Sure. But if I was a doctor and I was saying what Dr. Fauci was saying, you'd probably be like, maybe he's got something to say. Yeah, yeah. I that's why I th that's why I love the church so much. Like the church

GOBBA GOOL (16:43.123)
Exactly. Exactly.

Jim Salmon (16:50.924)
is supposed to be a community that we rely on. And of course that's, you know, what Hebrews says about encouraging each other and stirring up good works. But I also think it's like, yeah, we can't all be experts on every relevant area of life. Have good people of good character in your life.

GOBBA GOOL (17:03.88)
Mm-hmm. Well, here's a good example. I know we have surprised James White moments where we reference him occasionally. But like you know how like you know how like James James White is for the most part like a pretty con a trusted conservative theologian, and and I think you and I know his his hobbies, one of his hobbies has been kind of like nerding about space stuff for a long time. So when James White says No, the earth can't be flat because of this

Jim Salmon (17:12.318)
Sure.

Jim Salmon (17:26.184)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (17:33.76)
I'm like, okay. I mean look James White has been kind of like a fan of this stuff for his whole life. He's a smart guy. He probably knows more than I do. You and I are not even remotely close to astrophysicists.

Jim Salmon (17:35.827)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (17:48.743)
I mean, to be fair, neither is James White. I mean he's there are things I would trust him in. I don't know if I would trust someone because they're a big fan of certain stuff, 'cause that can still lead into different things.

GOBBA GOOL (17:57.154)
Well, but that's yeah, but that's where that's where you have to be willing to c accept some compromise in this. Because I don't know. I personally don't know. I could find some maybe. I don't have anybody else that I have like that I trust their character to to speak into that. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Jim Salmon (18:04.209)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (18:11.954)
Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Cause I I think I think that is so I think that you've you've you've accepted a good I I think that's a good way that I would identify one of my framework pieces is one, trusting the character of people who I can use as resources. I think the flip side of it is

There are a lot of high, high, high level conspiracy theories that I think are rooted in this idea that so many people are just in on this act of deceit that I think sometimes

I find that less believable because I'm like, I don't think that 10,000 people in this country know the truth about blank and they've all been successfully paid off. That's just too many variables. That feels like. So it's like on the one hand, I don't think my friend who I trust is gonna lie to me. On the other hand, I don't think 10,000 people will consistently do a bad thing when they could be on NBC with a $10 million book deal tomorrow if they just say, here's

This email I got telling me to lie about blank, you know?

GOBBA GOOL (19:22.578)
yeah, for sure. I don't I mean, mass conspiracy in general doesn't hold a lot of weight. It's like really hard to to to to keep pe yeah, to keep people silent. That's what the whole when people are like, Well we never went to the moon, I'm like, You're telling me that not a soul in the last what's it been, sixty years?

Jim Salmon (19:34.28)
To pull it off. Yeah. To keep the lid on it. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (19:46.356)
yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (19:47.978)
Almost yeah, somewhere in there. Not a soul who was in that movie studio was Stanley Kub Kubrick. Kubrick, how do you pronounce Kubrick? Kubrick. Q

Jim Salmon (19:54.441)
Mm-hmm. Kubrick. Kubrick, yeah. You should just gone with it. Yeah. We mispronounced last names on a daily basis in this show. Mostly French.

GOBBA GOOL (20:03.062)
I know. So good good old s there wasn't a soul in yeah, mostly French. There wasn't a soul in that movie studio that wasn't like I was there and I can prove it. Okay. So I I I I I'm with you, man. I think you gotta trust the character. I think you have to be willing to make some compromises though on

Jim Salmon (20:12.295)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (20:16.956)
Yes. So I I

Jim Salmon (20:26.644)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (20:27.448)
How expert someone is. So if someone who you know is smart and like well researched says, I looked into that, here's some of the things I found. if you really want to push it, if you really want to push it, you need to become an expert on that thing that you really want to push. So if you really want to try to figure out if nine eleven was an inside job and there was explosions at the base of the tower, you better become a demolitions expert.

Jim Salmon (20:42.78)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (20:55.054)
and an architectural engineer and you could po you could possibly do it. But I think the problem is a lot of people know deep down if they study that stuff, like they know, okay, I'm probably wrong.

Jim Salmon (20:59.921)
Right.

Jim Salmon (21:11.484)
And I think that that so that's that's definitely valid. I think what kinda gets to cause a and and maybe this is just anecdotal or maybe this is just well, it's definitely anecdotal, but I've definitely felt like I've heard more discourse around conspiracy theories in Christian circles. I mean like even I I've been paying almost no attention to this, but like

you know, Candace Owens talking about the Charlie Kirk assassination and a ploy for Israel and stuff. I I have paid no attention to that, but I do know she is a conservative, also Christian voice who's been very like, sound the alarms. This is terrible. and I I part of me wonders if the reason why Christians tends to lean into that stuff more is because we already have

this doctrine that tells us that people are not trustworthy. We already have kind of a posture of like there's the world and then there's the people of God. So we are we're already kind of used to seeing the majority cultural world around us as being like kind of sinister. And I think if you kind of just

GOBBA GOOL (22:11.543)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (22:25.914)
Allow that allow those to go very unchallenged, very black and white. It can be very easy to be like, yeah, I could see how an entire institution is just like lying hand over hand over what is that saying? Hand over something? I don't think that's it.

GOBBA GOOL (22:41.004)
Hand over hand. Yeah, it's like like when they it's like when they do the like hand over hand in a huddle. Yeah. Yep. No, it's hand hand over foot. I don't know what it means. well one thing, I don't know if you would know this 'cause you're not like as plugged into like conservative right wing conversations as I am. Most people think Candace Owens is nuts.

Jim Salmon (22:46.868)
Like like hi k That's it. Thank you, thank you for helping me. That's okay.

Jim Salmon (23:10.366)
Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (23:10.432)
Like she's got like like I I should say I shouldn't say most. I should say very it very extreme fringe are following her.

Jim Salmon (23:21.01)
Like she doesn't have the the kind of following that she used to have.

GOBBA GOOL (23:26.41)
No, like the people that listen to Matt Walsh think Candace Owens is off her rocket. Yes.

Jim Salmon (23:31.624)
Sure, sure. And again, I I keep myself pretty distant from that stuff because it it doesn't feel it doesn't feel fruitful for my for my spirit. Also it's hand over fist, you dork. It's not hand over foot.

Gosh dang it. I still don't know what it means. It doesn't matter anymore. I don't

GOBBA GOOL (23:48.396)
Not I

GOBBA GOOL (23:52.68)
I'm I am not the one see, I'm not an expert on idioms or the English language, apparently. Expert on being an idiot. So I I think with Christians being drawn to conspiracy theories, you're probably right that we're kind of told like, hey, it's it's us w it's implied that it's us versus the world. That's not what Jesus said, but

Jim Salmon (24:02.804)
That's fair.

Jim Salmon (24:10.793)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (24:20.913)
Right. Right. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (24:21.974)
It's it's implied. part of the issue though here is that the powers at B, quote unquote, have actually really messed up, I think.

Jim Salmon (24:35.604)
They've done some stuff, yes. And that's very important, I think, to recognize.

GOBBA GOOL (24:38.906)
There like I I'm kind of tracking I feel like the dialogue shifted after COVID. I think after COVID happened and a ton of people realized you know the my crazy uncle on Facebook that was saying this was manufactured in a lab was actually right. And and what what that does, unfortunately, is the Alex Jones of the world who say I I don't want to give a percentage, some true things,

Jim Salmon (24:58.11)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (25:09.11)
Now people go, Well what else is he right about?

Jim Salmon (25:11.61)
Right. It it validates the the people who kinda live on the fringe, on the out on the outlier side. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (25:18.006)
Yep. And it doesn't help when you have people who they meme about things that he says. You know, like the turning they're turning the frogs gay. You've heard of that one, right? Yeah, well, have you looked into it? Yeah, there was like a chemical being released that was like messing with the reproduction of these frogs. So what happens is people like you and me

Jim Salmon (25:27.282)
Right. I have

It's legit, right?

Jim Salmon (25:38.078)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (25:43.926)
are f feel like let down, disappointed by the powers that be, and we're like, we just want to find truth, right? And then so and then and then and then we say, well Alex Jones was right about a bunch of COVID stuff. And then we say, Well Alex Jones, I looked into that meme. Turns out that was actually true. Now we start now so like now you're seeing the beginnings of a conspiracy theorist like really being made.

Jim Salmon (25:50.002)
Right. Right.

Jim Salmon (26:00.743)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (26:07.888)
Right. Right.

GOBBA GOOL (26:09.642)
And so maybe you go to people that are more extreme than Alex Jones, wondering, yeah.

Jim Salmon (26:14.388)
And I think I think that is what we're seeing. I mean, and I again I I I it's awful how COVID and the Epstein stuff kinda came together. I mean, like, dude, we witnessed some wack-a-doodle presidential elections. I mean, just from like I think of like the one between Al Gore and President Bush, where Gore won the popular vote, but Bush won in the Electoral College. But like the last two elections we've had have both had

GOBBA GOOL (26:38.454)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (26:43.056)
full sides of people being like there was fraud here, like there this was stolen from Donald Trump saying that when Biden won to a lot of Democratic leaders or probably more on the on the media intellectual side being like, no, Trump stole it this time. Like there is an a and I think this is why I think there's fertile ground for conspiracy thinking right now is because trust in institutions is at like an all time low.

GOBBA GOOL (26:46.584)
Fraud. Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (27:00.492)
Any home?

GOBBA GOOL (27:12.448)
Yeah, we're I I've I think I've said it before, it's like we're in an epistemological crisis right now. And I think it's really dangerous where where we're at. I mean, dude, I know I know people that just say some of the most off the wall things and everything from like chemtrails to like children being trafficked in Disney.

Jim Salmon (27:17.884)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (27:33.82)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (27:38.164)
the weather machines one. Have you heard about that one? Where there's like the the government is control is is actually manufacturing like climate control because they have like these big machines in the Midwest, I think, that create clouds and stuff like that. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (27:49.645)
Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (27:53.677)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (27:57.558)
I I think it makes sense why it's poised to it. Like why I I feel like we're going back and forth and like, you know, we're showing we're showing like how a conspiracy theory minded person could kind of fall down that rabbit hole understandably. But then also we gotta use our brains, guys. We gotta be willing to you really think if the government could control the weather, like, we wouldn't

Jim Salmon (28:12.564)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (28:26.924)
Be using that more frequently.

Jim Salmon (28:29.404)
Yeah. How would you here's an interesting question. I think this will be fun to answer. How would you minister to someone in your context? Let's say it's like a young teenage dude who's just like spending probably 30, 40 hours a week on like 4chan, 8chan, Alex Jones videos, like all all of the like

Like I'm not even talking like yeah, just like very fringe dudes and they're it's like consuming them to where they can't go a full conversation without talking about it. It's ca it's making them kind of neurotic. It's you can tell it's affecting their ability to just like interact with people or like all the relationships they're building are all through this kind of like, you know, this similar train of thought. Like how do you how do you minister to that guy?

GOBBA GOOL (29:10.882)
GOBBA GOOL (29:21.964)
Well, there's a couple questions you have to be able to answer in that world because first off, this could be mental illness that needs to be addressed. You know, acute paranoia, whatever, where they're just that could be developing in them. Let's assume all the boxes are checked. It's not mental illness. He's just kind of a kid trying to find

Jim Salmon (29:30.795)
Mm, okay.

Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (29:50.122)
truth and it's like fun to him. He's learning how to research and he does feel like he's in the just, you know, I shouldn't say standard sins are involved in this, but you get you get what I'm trying to say. I I hope the listeners get what I'm trying to say. I would try to channel his researching into like good stuff. Like I would say, here's I said, here's the deal. I want you to prove to me that the moon landing was fake. If that's one of the ones he's passionate about.

Jim Salmon (29:59.231)
Sure, sure. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (30:09.054)
Sure.

Jim Salmon (30:19.38)
Sure, sure.

GOBBA GOOL (30:20.226)
And then I'm see, and now here's where I've put my money where my mouth is. I have to go get all sorts of good sources. Like now I suddenly have to spend hours upon hours preparing for this so that and it's not to just like smack him down or whatever, but it's try to like walk him through how do you find good sources? How am I thinking about this? You know, and and I would just try to come alongside him. Look, I'd play the game with him. What would you well

Jim Salmon (30:44.498)
Yeah. For sure, for sure. You kinda you'd you'd you'd jump into his pool. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (30:50.67)
Yeah, I would jump in his pool, that's fine. What would you do?

Jim Salmon (30:54.292)
I think I would this is a very this is a very soul care kind of answer, but that's kinda like my DNA a little bit. I think I would the I I'm not sure I would ask this question directly, but I think what I would try to s find is like what is this doing for you? Like what is it what is being accomplished by looking at all this stuff and and

kind of confirming all of these biases for you. Like what does it mean that

Like yeah, like like what is what is the benefit? Like are you is it resolving an anxiety that you have? Is it because you don't feel very like stable in the world that we're in? Like is is it a fear of how your family's being affected? Like like I because I think for a lot of people there's like like what's what's the fear that's involved? Like what's kind of driving the anxiety here? I would try to get to it on a very like human emotional level and just kind of work through that because it's

Like, I don't know. We we all have maladaptive ways to cope with the struggles of just being in a crazy human world and inheriting a whole bunch of human crap just from being a person. but I think the Christian thing is to say, well, let's put the things that are beautiful, pure, righteous, good in front of our eyes, but the things that are contributing to

GOBBA GOOL (32:19.095)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (32:22.836)
a perpetual existential angst. Like is there is there Christ in that? That sounds like it's just fear. That sounds like you're just sticking your hand in a cage full of tarantulas. Like how is that helping you?

GOBBA GOOL (32:30.007)
Yeah.

Well, and I think I think they also what it does is it it gives them a sense of control. A sense of like I'm in the no, I know, you don't know, I I'm in the in crowd. But there's actu yes, there's a lot of things that actually go into I think what can send somebody down that rabbit hole.

Jim Salmon (32:38.75)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (32:44.818)
Right.

Like I've learned. Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (32:55.156)
Sure.

GOBBA GOOL (32:55.724)
to to full blown conspiracy theory. And I think you're probably right of like, let's ask the question, what's what's this doing for you?

Jim Salmon (33:05.185)
Mm. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause

GOBBA GOOL (33:08.63)
I'm trying to think like how my answer would have I would hope my answer would have evolved into that.

Jim Salmon (33:15.122)
Yeah, cool, 'cause you're you're like I said, you're you're you're getting you're joining their world. Like you're going into it with them. Yeah, I think I think one of the worst things you can do with someone in that place is just be like, That's dumb. Like, don't you know how dumb that is? Like, smart people don't think that way. Like I think, you know

GOBBA GOOL (33:20.462)
Yeah, I'm trying to channel it positively. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (33:35.381)
you're just reaffirming everything that they think.

Jim Salmon (33:37.761)
Exactly. Cause cause they already see the world in black and white where it's like there's the enlightened who have seen it my way and then there's the dumb sheep who don't see it my way who just write me off. So yeah, whenever you like you you you can contribute to that like martyr experience that they're having by just being like, You're such a dumb idiot for believing in this. and again it's worth it's worth reiterating, guys, like

GOBBA GOOL (33:58.222)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (34:06.74)
We're I don't believe that all of these like we're talking about more like you're almost like formulating your existence, your personality around this kind of neurotic pursuit of counterfacts. I'm not saying you watched a YouTube video about the moon landing might be fake and now your pastor should have an intervention. Like I'm not saying that. yeah. I'm not trying to

GOBBA GOOL (34:26.016)
Right. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's also interesting 'cause I think I I I played my cards when I I kind of suggested that you know, maybe the age of the earth isn't what we say it is. And I definitely I'm not really I don't believe in evolution. I

Jim Salmon (34:40.756)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (34:48.256)
And you could say, well, Taylor, that's kind of the same thing that you two are talking about. Like you have all these experts that have got together and agreed that this is just not even possible. What I would say is that we were operating with a different paradigm. And I think there's a big difference between a purposefully lying to everybody and a operating out of a paradigm that just cannot look at evidence objectively.

Jim Salmon (35:17.212)
Right. I think there's a big difference between science w if i as science develops, it will eventually come to the realization that the earth is as old as the Bible says, versus the scientists do know and they're lying to us and that lie is

GOBBA GOOL (35:37.921)
Yes.

Jim Salmon (35:40.954)
like this umbrella over all scientific studies. Like that, because the first one is just like, okay, well they're just not there yet. the second one is, there's actually a system in place meant to to downplay God's authority. And to deceive, yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (35:54.474)
And deceive. Yeah. I think people are less intentional about deceiving others and just more about everyone's just always deceiving themselves.

Jim Salmon (36:08.112)
Yeah, I mean that's yeah, that's you know, what what does judges say? Like we we're just constantly doing what's right in our own eyes. Like we're not doing intentional evil. We're just dumb and we do evil by accident. for the most part.

GOBBA GOOL (36:16.118)
Yes.

GOBBA GOOL (36:21.314)
Yeah, that's right. You know what's funny is I've I've half thought about I'm like what if the paradigm shifted and we came to the realization that evolution probably wasn't true. Macro evolution wasn't true and that the earth is not, you know, twelve billion years old or whatever. They like figured out some stuff. And then I just kind of realized I'm like, they would just

Jim Salmon (36:33.064)
Mm-hmm. Sure, yeah.

Jim Salmon (36:42.846)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (36:46.242)
God's not suddenly gonna become everyone's priority. They're just gonna explain it in another way.

Jim Salmon (36:51.25)
Yeah, they just they just fit that into the secular framework. Yeah. Exactly.

GOBBA GOOL (36:54.056)
Yeah, exactly. Like so whatever whatever quote unquote evidence we have is just still getting sh shoved into the Yeah, it's like Harry Potter fan fiction, right?

Jim Salmon (36:58.558)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (37:04.038)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's why I've always been I mean, like, I I still have a lot of love for apologetics. You know, we had inspiring philosophy on a c a few months back. Thanks, thanks again, man, for doing that. Big big big friend of the show. thanks for listening. but you know, I have a lot of love for apologetics, but I think that there definitely are some fields of apologetics where I'm just like, is this defending the truth or is this defending like a truth?

GOBBA GOOL (37:05.783)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (37:34.087)
Like because at a certain point, yeah, like there are some apol apologicians, apologeticans. Thank you, gosh. It's real bad. We're batten fifteen. there are some apologists that almost seem like they're just trying to convince an atheist to be a theist. It's like, but Christ is the truth that saves and that is significant, so

GOBBA GOOL (37:41.39)
Apologists. Dude, we're batting a thousand. I we're batting a hundred.

Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (38:00.716)
Right.

Jim Salmon (38:03.752)
You know, who gives a rip if you convince someone the earth is really young, which personally I don't even believe. I actually do believe in the older theory. that's why I can't be a Baptist. That's all right. We're all wrong, bro.

GOBBA GOOL (38:15.98)
Nope, nothing. Anyway, you can be wrong. That's fine. I'm not like a six thousand years old kind of guy. I'm just like I

Jim Salmon (38:24.912)
Isn't that like the standard young earth creation view? What is it like twenty thousand?

GOBBA GOOL (38:28.47)
Yeah, they're just like I don't know. But I don't I I I don't trust the people that are dude, I'm just saying, man, I've been so disappointed it when I've looked into this stuff. It's jump talk, so we can monologue a little bit. I so some of my autisticism interests are like dinosaurs, surprise, surprise. And I've watched hours and hours of

Jim Salmon (38:43.092)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (38:48.222)
Course.

Jim Salmon (38:53.844)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (38:57.73)
Videos and guys, we have just fragments of skeletons and they build whole animals out of it. And we all get so excited when we see these new discoveries and stuff. They don't know. They don't know. And they don't tell you they don't know. And that it's not to deceive or anything. It's just they're doing their best in their minds.

Paleontologists though do figure out some really cool stuff with the evidence they do have. Like they find, you know, dinosaur nests that they'll figure out like nesting behaviors and try to make like good guesses. And that's what happens in that world where you take like one little piece of evidence and that's their that's what their paleontology conferences are doing, right? So there's like fun stuff, cool stuff happening, but

Jim Salmon (39:48.66)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (39:53.58)
I and I don't think there's just like some big lie, but they they also take tiny pieces of evidence and run with it. Especially when they go and share with the rest of the world. Or I should say the rest of the world gets a hold of the tiny pieces of evidence is and then runs with it.

Jim Salmon (40:05.598)
Sure.

Jim Salmon (40:10.862)
Mm-hmm. All right, I have a few co I have a few questions asked or prepared for us. So question number one. did the Catholics consider the reformers conspiracy theorists?

GOBBA GOOL (40:29.059)
No.

Jim Salmon (40:31.198)
How come?

GOBBA GOOL (40:33.292)
Because

GOBBA GOOL (40:37.002)
The reformers were debating over the meaning of scripture. They weren't debating over like if some massive thing, if they were all being like lied to. So yeah, I don't think I think by we already talked about how like the word conspiracy theory has already kind of lost its meaning.

Jim Salmon (40:48.852)
Mm.

Jim Salmon (40:58.46)
And it's inherently kind of it's it's it's negative. Like when someone says, I believe in a conspiracy theory, they don't think it's a conspiracy theory. there's like a Yeah, yeah, yeah. I gotcha, I gotcha.

GOBBA GOOL (41:08.362)
Yeah. So I think they could have I think it's wrong and it's using technical definitions wrong. But of course it's like no no no the church knows what's best.

Jim Salmon (41:12.414)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (41:19.858)
Okay. Yeah. I'm on bo I'm on board. I'm on board.

GOBBA GOOL (41:20.91)
You got you gotta listen gotta listen to our ecclesiastical authorities. So I think they might have thought that, but by standard definitions of things, no, they were not.

Jim Salmon (41:31.1)
Okay, all right. Next question. Do you think that AI is going to have an impact either either positively or negatively on the the future of conspiracy theories?

GOBBA GOOL (41:48.202)
I'm not post millennials, so I'm just gonna say negatively.

Jim Salmon (41:53.841)
So you think it's gonna make it worse. My hope is like I you know I it feels like every time I watch a YouTube video there's a new like news subscription that is all about trying to condense

left wing and right wing news outlets to try to find the truth in the middle. Like there's clearly a demand for less biased stuff. And I feel like AI could be a really cool tool to be like, I understand why you think that, Taylor. However, the earth is actually like, you know, I feel like that could be a thing. My fear is that AI really just wants you to keep submitting prompts so they can keep making money. So they're just gonna feed

whatever you wanna hear, which is a very big fear of mine, that er that AI is just gonna make everyone think what they already do ten times over, which would be horrifying, but

GOBBA GOOL (42:48.718)
Well it's like the memes. Have you seen the memes that it's like the the dad that's like I just left my children and then the I just walked out and it's like you go king, you do what's best for you.

Jim Salmon (42:56.308)
yeah.

That's right. That's right. It's like you didn't make it's like the thing is, James, you made a cho you you chose you, and you chose you for the first time. And they're gonna need to understand that. And it's like you have like a nine and eleven year old sons who are like crying.

GOBBA GOOL (43:12.308)
Exactly. Yeah, and they're gonna need

Yes. Yes. I okay, I mean, I don't know. I I I L LMs are trained on content, right? So like Grok is already kind of seen as the more quote unquote conservative I mean, maybe I I don't know if AI if AI's a research tool, it's kind of funny to see on X like the fact checking that happens now.

Jim Salmon (43:28.894)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (43:36.082)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (43:47.352)
'Cause it does happen to everybody. I think Elon even like tweeted something that got fat checked and he got like proven wrong. Yeah. So I don't know. There's no shortcut to research and learning, but you're talking to two historians, so w of course we're gonna be the ones that's like, I don't know, I just go to the primary sources and see it myself.

Jim Salmon (43:54.685)
that's interesting. Okay.

Jim Salmon (44:11.77)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (44:12.418)
But as you and I both know, unfortunately, primary sources are like way too hard to find. That it's it's like unacceptable to me that we can go onto Wikipedia and read somebody's claim and then they can reference the primary source, but then we can't even get to it. Div so anyway, anyway, keep going with your little list.

Jim Salmon (44:17.864)
They it definitely can be. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (44:31.174)
Yeah, no that's a good point. That's a good point.

Jim Salmon (44:36.838)
Okay. what was the last one that I just asked? The AI one? Okay. what has has there been a conspiracy theory that you've like kinda gone gone deep on? Not not even like that you bought it, but you were just kind of curious about it for a while?

GOBBA GOOL (44:39.138)
Yeah, the yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (44:55.19)
It depends. Do you consider Bigfoot a conspiracy theory?

Jim Salmon (44:58.42)
I forgot that you're what do they even call what do they call you people? A footy? Squatches. You sent me down a long podcast rabbit hole after that conversation. And yes, you was it was it Bear Grills or was it another like outdoorsman guy? Les Stroud. You I I listened to his interview, and it was like it kind of gave me goosebumps a little bit.

GOBBA GOOL (45:03.348)
Squatch squatches. No, I'm just just kidding. No.

GOBBA GOOL (45:11.512)
Did I?

GOBBA GOOL (45:18.55)
was less Stroud Who's like Yeah. It's freaky. Yeah, so I've developed a little bit more. I I think something demonic is happening out in the woods meant to deceive people. you can kind of see links between

Jim Salmon (45:35.75)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (45:45.768)
all occult type behaviors. Yeah, not just because so okay, to catch audience the audience up. If you're not familiar with what's happening like deep in the Bigfoot kind of circle is the the the main there's the main theory is that he's not just a ape out hiding in the woods. It's like he's this sort of interdimensional

Jim Salmon (45:48.884)
Crypted stuff.

GOBBA GOOL (46:13.942)
something, some being, and people try to talk to him using occultic practices of mind speak, the glowing orbs that you see associated with UFOs and Spectres are also associated with Bigfoot. it there's a it's demonic, I think, is kinda where I've landed. I think if I saw some like stinky giant ape in the woods, I'd be like, you know

Maybe he's actually out there, but I think I think people are going out looking and I think demons take advantage of that. So I did go ver I went very deep in Bigfoot World and have read a lot of things and listened to a lot of interviews. What about you?

Jim Salmon (46:43.974)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (46:58.377)
Mm-hmm.

I think I was really curious about the Martin Luther King assassination for a while. Like, whether that was more government or whether it was just James Earl Ray. I don't know. That one's hard. I mean, I haven't done a lot of research looking back. I I think it probably was just a lone wolf acting out. but it doesn't it doesn't refute the fact that like the CIA had already tapped the dude, like the FBI was following him around, like they were

GOBBA GOOL (47:30.646)
I

Jim Salmon (47:31.368)
They were trying to wash him out, whether it happened or not.

GOBBA GOOL (47:34.912)
I know it's kind of funny because I feel like I'm being hard on conspiracy theorists in this episode, and then I say things that make it sound like I am one, so maybe I need to be consistent, but I do not trust the CIA at all. At all. They were literally breaking the law, torturing people. This is all documented, folks. They were torturing prisoners. Torture doesn't work. This is just these are just facts.

Jim Salmon (47:48.966)
No, no. And you shouldn't. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (48:03.148)
Just like facts. I'd be happy. DM me if you want. I can have the conversation. Torture doesn't work. I shouldn't have offered that, but I'm not gonna rescind it. They were torturing people breaking United States law, and then the guy who blew the whistle on it is the one that went to jail.

Jim Salmon (48:07.432)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (48:21.16)
Yep.

GOBBA GOOL (48:22.476)
This is all documented. So I no, I do not trust the CIA at all. And I if that makes me sound like King Conspiracy, I don't actually care. I would not bat an eye if they killed MLK.

Jim Salmon (48:24.626)
Mm-hmm.

Jim Salmon (48:36.06)
Yeah. MK Ultra also I mean that was not even conspiracy theory. That actually happened. That was when the CIA was basically trying to use illicit drugs to see if they could use like mind control on like prisoners of war and get Soviet dudes to like fess up to secrets about Soviet stuff. Yeah, that hundred percent happened. what was it, the Tuskegee the Tuskegee experiment where

GOBBA GOOL (48:51.694)
Mm, yeah. Yes.

Jim Salmon (49:05.466)
They had black men who had tested positive for sy syphilis and they offered to give them free treatment, but they were just giving them placebos so they could watch what happened when someone had syphilis and they could track it, without their consent or awareness of it.

GOBBA GOOL (49:21.696)
Or how how about when the ATF fired on civilians, the branch Divians? They fired on them from a helicopter and then and then burned down and then burned down the entire structure, killing a bunch of children so that they could cover their tracks. Do you remember that one?

Jim Salmon (49:27.252)
hey, we don't know about that one yet.

Jim Salmon (49:38.526)
Branch Dividian's shot first, man.

GOBBA GOOL (49:40.884)
It doesn't matter that they shot first. It's illegal for the government to shoot from s at civilians from a helicopter.

Jim Salmon (49:42.468)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (49:48.513)
And there's a lot of sources that say that the d that the Davidians started that fire. They were a suicide cult, bro. They were a suicide cult. Actually, that that that story is just church history equivalent or adjacent enough for us to do a very unhinged episode on it.

GOBBA GOOL (50:08.392)
maybe dude. Alright, I need to know in the comments who's on my side. I need to know.

Jim Salmon (50:13.716)
Well, 'cause the the branch Davidians were what? They were Seventh day Adventists.

GOBBA GOOL (50:19.224)
They weren't I they were not a suicide cult.

Jim Salmon (50:22.14)
I think they were, bro. I think I think there were I think there were reports that

David Koresh had made comments about like their day of well, 'cause their whole thing was like they believed that they were opening up the scrolls and the what is it? What's the phrase from Revelation that I'm blanking on? But like they literally believed that their day of judgment would lead to the powers of Babylon killing the people of God. So their prophecy was to be killed by the government. So it seems really convenient. There's they all died.

They could have surrendered. It was a fifty something day siege. He could have just surrendered himself.

GOBBA GOOL (51:04.718)
I still think the ATF burned down that house to cover up the tracks they fired on civilians.

Jim Salmon (51:08.958)
I think they mishandled it for sure. I think they mishandled it for sure. It's it's a fascinating story and I we can definitely do an episode on it. That'd be a lot of fun.

GOBBA GOOL (51:16.972)
Yeah. So yeah, I don't trust the government. Well, okay, next question. Next question.

Jim Salmon (51:21.492)
if you could be I don't know, that's all the questions I have. I don't have any more. I was gonna try to riff one off the top. If you would rather would you rather be a flat earth, a lizard man, or a fake moon?

GOBBA GOOL (51:29.288)
If you could be I don't know.

Jim Salmon (51:39.454)
But if you're a lizard man you have to live in the tunnels under Brooklyn. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (51:43.404)
the earth. I can't do like the Joe Biden lizard man thing where I'm like out and about.

Jim Salmon (51:47.946)
No, you can't.

There are fun ones too. Like Paul Lennon died. That's a fun not Paul Lennon. Paul McCartney died. And they've been using like a body up they've been using like a body double since like Rubber Soul came out. Something like that. So

GOBBA GOOL (51:56.81)
John Lentude, we are doing great. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (52:05.142)
Yeah. I you know though, I mean i look, I think I think if we've proved anything in this discussion, it's that maybe both of us are not as consistent as we Like we all wanna be rational actors. We all wanna be rational

Jim Salmon (52:15.698)
I think it's like we there's a reason why we don't trust the institutions around us. There's a reason we this wasn't like fake. Like we don't trust the CIA because we have the receipts. We don't trust the American government because we have the receipts. That doesn't mean that we don't trust them so much that we think that something happened that feels absurd, but you know, maybe. I don't know. Hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (52:42.924)
Yeah, you know what sucks though, is that ultimately the CIA is probably doing a lot of stuff that keeps us very safe. Which is it's like how do you reconcile that?

Jim Salmon (52:51.283)
I believe that. Yeah, a hundred percent.

I mean, th that's their whole thing. They try to keep things covert. And usually the stuff that you find out about is probably the stuff that goes really, really wrong. But yeah, they're they also I mean, they also do things that we find out about that were successes that were also still really shady. Like when they overthrew was it the government in Iran and planted the Shah who everybody hated and then caused the Iranian revolution. That wasn't great.

GOBBA GOOL (53:23.042)
Not not good. Not good, bud.

Jim Salmon (53:24.372)
Anyways, we we talk about a lot of stuff today. Should we should we land the plane? Is this is this is this your captain speaking?

GOBBA GOOL (53:30.782)
dude, my my my brain's all scattered now. Now I'm just asking the question like am I consistent? I don't know where I'm not consistent. Am I a lizard man?

Jim Salmon (53:34.484)
It's been a long it's been a long one.

Am I lizard lizard man?

Jim Salmon (53:44.255)
There's a difference between acknowledging MK Ultra and even saying that the ATF burned down the the Branch Dividians and being like you know some grand global wide scale thing happened. Like Scale is very important, yes.

GOBBA GOOL (53:58.998)
I think scale is really the defining factor. So it makes sense that the ATF would have burnt down if they did commit a war crime on civilians and were like, Well, this isn't gonna end well regardless. So why don't we just take care of this? And that's not the right thing to do, but

Jim Salmon (54:10.686)
Right.

Jim Salmon (54:14.644)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (54:21.024)
It makes sense in a logical, like human understanding. It does not make sense that our government is ran by lizard people that exist in subterranean layers.

Jim Salmon (54:29.812)
Ha ha ha.

Jim Salmon (54:34.3)
Right, right. Or it's like, you know, the flat earth thing is interesting, but I think the moment that it loses me is when it says and because NASA says that the earth isn't flat, NASA is this entire institution of liars and anyone who has ever worked at NASA is a liar. And I'm like, that just feels that feels silly. That feels like a lot to a lot to ride on. So I don't know.

GOBBA GOOL (55:01.922)
Yeah. I don't know, just use discernment, guys.

Jim Salmon (55:05.788)
Yeah, and talk to people who know more stuff than we do. Like we don't know very much. Especially us. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (55:08.63)
Mm-hmm. And the last thing especially us. We're chumps. The last thing I'll say is we've been going through Isaiah. I've mentioned that. So Isaiah 30 and 31, the Lord's kind of like judging Israel for going to Egypt for protection. Because Egypt had the chariots, right? This like sick war machine. And they were like, Well, we're gonna go trust Israel. And God's like, Well, that was a mistake. And

Jim Salmon (55:27.773)
Mm-hmm.

GOBBA GOOL (55:38.028)
Just trust in God, guys. Trust the Lord. Yeah.

Jim Salmon (55:40.338)
Yeah, that's all we can do. Yeah. Even if you were aware of every secret sinister thing that was being done right now, does Jesus still not say to worry about today and not tomorrow, 'cause today has its own worries? Like, are you really doing Christ's work by uncovering all these crazy things going on, or should you just be present with the world around you?

Love your coworkers, kiss your wife, hug your babies. Bing bang boom. Pet your dog. Throw your cat in the garage. I don't like cats. I'm allergic to cats, bro. I don't like cats. Yeah. Did you know that the branch dividian thing, that was why Timothy Big Vay did the Oklahoma City bombing?

GOBBA GOOL (56:14.552)
Pet your dog.

GOBBA GOOL (56:18.91)
No, pet your cat too. they're pretty precious.

GOBBA GOOL (56:33.138)
yeah, that and Ruby Ridge.

Jim Salmon (56:34.996)
Let's see, alright, I gotta do a little true crime for chumps one day, brother.

GOBBA GOOL (56:37.09)
Dude. T Timothy McVeigh's manifesto is I'm just saying, I obviously I do not support anything. He was smart is all I'm trying to say.

Jim Salmon (56:50.248)
He was smart, yeah. It's takes a smart guy to but he was also I think borderline satanic. Yeah.

GOBBA GOOL (56:51.988)
He was

GOBBA GOOL (56:57.236)
Yes, yes. But I'm just saying he was smart. And this is the problem when the powers that be lie and people figure it out. We just need bene we need benevolent dictators. Anyway.

Jim Salmon (57:01.31)
Yeah.

Jim Salmon (57:12.981)
Okay, all right. All right. Chump talk is over. Thank you guys for listening. We will talk to you guys again real soon and

GOBBA GOOL (57:22.242)
Bye bye.