146. The Dying Breath of the Third Crusade

The siege of Acre was a grueling yet spectacular success for the Crusader armies. With the coastline cleared and easy access to supplies secured, the greatest task was before them: to siege the city of Jerusalem and retake the True Cross.

In the Islamic camps, fear and paranoia were spreading through the ranks as Saladin's health continues to ravage him, and murmurs of betrayal are were frequently heard.

Does Richard the Lionheart have what it takes to complete his pilgrimage to the Holy City? Does Saladin have the strength to ward off the Crusaders one last time?

Tune in for the conclusion of the epic Third Crusade.

ALSO: Disregard what John said near the end of the episode...
Our Kingdom of Heaven Watch Party is August 29*** at 5pm PST.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:37

This episode is sponsored by Tales from the French and Indian War, the best multi-episode podcast on the topic. It's also the only one, but neither here nor there. You ever wonder what George Washington was up to before the American Revolution? Or why there's so many French speakers in Canada and why there's so many French named places all across North America? You ever wonder what the frog related incident of 1754 was? Well, you'll have to tune in to Tales from the French and Indian War to find out. I gotta tell ya, I'm listening as I'm editing this episode, and I'm a big fan so far. I think you will be too. Check it out. Hey everybody, welcome to Church History for Chumps. My name is John Simon, and I'm here with Mr. Silly. Mr. Silly, you look exhausted, bro. What's going on? You look like you just got punched in the gut before I said your name.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Did I?

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Yeah, bro. You looked you looked uneasy for a second. I don't know. I'm feeling great. You're getting the the on the on-air nerves. You still haven't shaken those off yet, man. We're we're professional podcasters.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

I shouldn't I shouldn't admit this. I don't know if I ever had them.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

That sounds about right, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Of course I'm of course I'm going to perform well in front of a microphone.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Yes, that's true. Hey, listener, uh, we've got a couple really cool things to announce, real quick. First off, by the time you're listening to this podcast, our Discord is live because we listen, we listen to the people of Chump Nation. Chump Nation is not a dictatorship, it's not even a democracy. It's kind of anarchy where everyone, we just kind of do whatever and there's really no structure, which is great. Uh so we have a Discord. Taylor is the mod, which means that uh when you apply, he kind of gets to check your vibe. You know, he's like the bouncer out outside the club. He'll kind of give you the one over, make sure you're not like a Russian bot or something. Um so yeah, hop on. We're gonna, I don't even know what we're gonna do with it, but we're gonna be uh sharing behind the scenes stuff and I don't know, sending each other memes and talking about, hey guys, I learned this and I'm not gonna do an episode, but it's fun. And Tedo's gonna be like, hey guys, I'm Baptist. I learned I was at Baptist School Day, and they talked about getting baptized as an adult.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Well, and I'd I'd love for you guys to share what you're learning about.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we want to get some some dialogue going, some, some, some community stuff.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

There's literally dozens of us that like church history, so we all have to We have to band together.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Yes. Yeah. We have to band together for for the coming darkness, the dark ages when church history is banned from the public, you know. I don't know under what circumstances that would happen, but you never know. We have to be ready. We have to be ready. That's what the Great Tribulation. That's how it starts. That's how the Great Tribulation starts. Here's my banter question, Taylor. Do you believe in the Great Tribulation? Oh gosh. Why? That's wild. It sounds like a yes. Imagine. I was just curious. I don't know. Um no, here's my real here's my real question. Um, Taylor, what do you think is the most Baptist breed of dog?

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Oh, the most Baptist breed of dog?

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Or I guess you can go just pet in general, you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

A Baptist pet. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

Like what what pet just exudes uh, you know, I love a good pot look. I feel like a mule. Wow, okay, because of the like a like a beast of burden. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Like just out here working.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Just uh just a working man. Doing the Lord's work. Real salt of the earth kind of animal, huh?

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yeah, that's what I think. Okay. All right, nice. What do you think's the most reformed animal?

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Oh, gosh, I don't know. Like a it's gotta be something that I can relate to because I am reformed, but it's not gonna be like an eagle. It's gonna be like a like a crow. Yeah, something kind of snooty. Flies high, a little bit too loud. Um nobody's really excited. Like, no one's ever been like, oh my gosh, look at that crow. Like, no one's like psyched about a flock of crows. Um but they do contribute to our ecosystem in some way. Um, and they're not opposed to representing the darkness of their being because of total depravity. So yeah, I think crows are good.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Mules are also, you know, little uh hybrid animals that don't really have a proper place in the That's true.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Can't can't re reproduce, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yeah, well that even though that would make Catholics like rabbits then, because they just sneeze and have ten babies.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Catholics are rabbits, charismatics are parrots. Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

A lot of call and response. Well, they talk all the time.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

A lot of talk. They just repeat things over and over again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Uh that's a good one. That's a good one. Let's see. What's uh hmm? What's the most Quaker animal? Oh gosh. Yeah. Like a groundhog or something? I actually I think that's good. I think that's really good. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah. The uh what's uh what's an Anglican animal?

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Oh, it's gotta be something like a swan, probably. Yeah, regal. Very regal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

The question is like like a gorilla? What denomination is a gorilla?

unknown 6:34

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Uh let's see. Intimidating, loyal, powerful. Strong, strong. Very strong.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Um, the uh the the conservative episcopalians. I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'll give them that. I'll give them a.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Okay, that's just an Anglican, though, dude. Like an ACNA Anglican. That's all they are. They're just conservative Episcopalians. Everyone's got a split, man. You're telling you're a Baptist. You guys split you guys split twice before breakfast.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

We split so much, we're not even it's not even a thing anymore. It's not even a character trait. Dude, your church has split four times since you've been there. Like That's not true. But it is funny. It's not true, but it is funny are you wearing a Wu Tang shirt? Uh yeah. Yeah. Woo. Woo.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Yeah. You ever seen them live? No. They actually came to Tucson a few years ago and I wasn't able to see him. I had a buddy, because I I I I have a thing. I don't really like going to concerts by myself. I actually really don't like going to concerts by myself. So if I can get someone to go with me, make it kind of an experience that I can share. But my my buddy bailed, and it I I hold no ill will, but couldn't see Wu Tang, but it's cool. Yeah. This was actually back when you and I were big into the into the hookah stuff, because I remember I went to uh one of our favorite hookah lounges, and the dude there was like, hey bro, you should have been here Tuesday night.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Like the Rizza came in and he was super dope, bro, and he like dapped me up, and yeah, man, I got to fix him, I got to fix him a bowl, and he was super sweet, like, yeah, man. I was like, I've missed every experience.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Of course it was RISA that was like, all right, show's over. I'm gonna go find a hookah place.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's a man of culture. I I respect that. I respect that.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah, that's good. That's good. No, I I the the big thing, I've like I hinted at it, the the summer classes are coming to a close, so I just have this looming amount of homework. I have to finish my paper. Have I told you guys about my Bigfoot paper? You're writing a Bigfoot paper in seminary? Well, it was a class called Fringe Theology, and so I kind of had very interesting. It was very it was very interesting. But I have to I kind of the point of the class, imagine it was academic haunted cosmos with a lot of primary sources for how people in the past handled certain things. So we were tasked with coming up with our own system of evaluation for like how to theologically think through uh high strangeness and then to apply it to a specific category of high strangeness. Interesting. Okay. So I'm so I'm writing on the big guy.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Okay. Would you say he's like the I don't know, like is he is Bigfoot still like the most talked about of the strange things like subgenre? I I feel like the moth guy got a lot of attention from cryptids?

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, yeah. Probably still the most encrypted, but yeah. As far as high strangeness, I think aliens are far bigger. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Like the existence of aliens or like experiences with aliens. Experiences.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

People are very into the the woo right now. To the woo? The woo. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Like W-O-O?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

What's that? Like woo. Oh, like the like the sweetie stuff.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

No, like the spiritual side of these things.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Basically all all of the Bigfoot encounters that amount to anything more than I saw a big hairy thing in the woods. Any all of it sounds just like pagan things being uh talked about. I mean, orbs are related, mind speak, telepathy, all these things. And so I think Bigfoot is uh demonic deception.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

You know, I yeah, do I necessarily think that's a serious thought? Maybe not, but I'll tell you why I appreciate it, Taylor. Because what does that mean? Even even in biblical times, there like there was this sense of this uh spiritual embodiment of the chaos of the unknown. Like for them, it was like the waters are chaotic and evil, or the desert is like a place where all the evil spirits live. Which again, I don't think all of that necessarily is allegorical. I think there can be truth to that. But it's it's fascinating that like people talk about the Appalachian Trail as like this is a very ancient, untamed wilderness, and there may be something I won't say sinister because that just kind of brings the spooky, but there there could be something out there from ages past. And I I think I find that approach really fascinating. Um, if you happen to be the host of Cosmic, what what's that show called? Haunted Cosmos. Yeah, we would like to talk to you um if you want to talk to us. Um that'd be interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

They just need to convince you that there's demonic deception at grand scales happening. I you are gonna take an L on this one because all the listeners are gonna like back me.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

I listened to a few episodes of Haunted Cosmos. I I think I I wasn't always convinced of their primary sources being a guy who said this one time. Like I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

No, you've re look, it's you have to read a whole slew of things, and then you sort of like filter it down to core ideas. That's what you do. It's not just like Crazy Steve's encounter out in the woods, but when there's fifteen hundred crazy Steves that say similar things, you go, okay, maybe there is something going on. Maybe. And then you have to say, What is that thing? Anyway, we're not haunted cosmos, we're not talking about this anymore.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

We just like a little whimsy, and I think there's something a little whimsical about that.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Tell Mr. Whimsy he's wrong. Go.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

Type it right now. Go. Don't don't you say it. Don't you do it. Put put your keyboard down. All right. Okay, we're gonna get into our episode. Like I said, uh, we're very excited. This is the close of the Third Crusade. Um, Taylor did a great job closing us out through the Siege of Acre. Uh, very, very interesting time. Like we said, not just probably the most important siege uh thus far in Crusader history, but a very important siege in all of like the history of medieval Europe, which is crazy that we get to talk about that. It is. We're gonna we're gonna wrap things up here today. Uh, because the Crusaders have taken Acre. It's this incredibly important port city that's gonna help them get lots of access to a nice, healthy supply line that's gonna keep them fed and full of reinforcements and resources. And so now the big question is where do we go from here and when do we get to Jerusalem? Because we got to take that city back, we got to get the true cross, we got we got some badas that gotta be binged. So uh before I get into my cold open, which I'm very excited about, uh, I do want to do a quick like prologue to just kind of bridge where we're at because we talked about this last week, but I do think it should get a little bit more time. When Acre was taken, there were close to 3,000 captives taken from the city by the crusaders. Uh there was a kind of long-standing negotiation that went back and forth between Richard the Lionheart, who of course is King of England and kind of the chief crusader during this time, and Saladin, who is the Sultan of the Ayyubid dynasty. And there the the whole negotiation is very interesting. I think Richard feels like he's being slighted by Saladine. Saladin keeps kind of counter-offering. Taylor mentioned this last week. I think it's well worth considering. Maybe there's just some cultural differences of how you tend to negotiate in situations like this. Obviously, Richard is coming from a very European vantage point, whereas Saladine not so much. Uh, but it's gonna lead to really one of the down low, one of the low points of the Crusade history, uh, death, certainly of this crusade, which is known as the Massacre of Ayade, which is uh basically the Richard is gonna be so frustrated at the response of Saladin to the kind of terms of surrender for this city that he's gonna march out 2,700 uh prisoners of war and right outside the walls of the city, uh within you know visible of the Islamic camp where Saladin is at, and they're just gonna mow him down. They're just gonna slaughter uh 2,700 of these people, and uh and it's gruesome. And this is not something one thing I was slightly encouraged by was that this didn't seem like a universally popular thing that Richard did. It seems like he got pushback even from other leaders uh in in his like circle. So this wasn't like everyone was like, yeah, slaughter him, kill him, mow him down. Like I think even other leaders were like, this was maybe not the best thing we could have done. Uh and then, of course, in response, I shouldn't say of course, but in response, uh 1600 Christian prisoners who were currently in Damascus uh are gonna be slaughtered in retaliation. And so uh very much uh one of the many live by the sword, die by the sword examples that we see.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

And and if you think about the timeline, it was not that long in the grant. The seat the siege lasted over two years. It was like two and a half years. And so you're telling me, you know, it was it was two years, it was three fighting seasons, two years. It was two years, yeah. Yeah. Saladin says, Okay, so you know, tensions have cooled. Let's talk about, let's talk about, let's revisit this payment thing, hey, and Richard says, No. It was a month, it was basically like a five weeks. Right, right, right. And Richard's like, pay me. And Saladin, and then it Saladin's like, well, let's talk about it. Richard says, okay, and then he kills all those people.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

And it's an awkward thing too, because like, of course, they are having to kind of come to some terms for a settlement here, but this is not the end of the of the war that's happening. Like, this is just the be so the fact that you're willing to do something so brutal in the middle of things that are still happening, like knowing that there's a very good chance that more Christian prisoners of war will probably have to suffer because of this, uh, seems like a bad move on Richard. I mean, I'm not gonna say seems like I think this is an abysmally bad move from Richard the Lionheart.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Uh and it wasn't very I mean, it was not a good Christian move either.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

By no means.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

There's no there is no way even in any amount of just warfare, we're just like because he's la he's not paying you as fast as you want, killing I uh the source I said twenty seven hundred. You had what? Twenty-seven to three thousand. Yeah. Yeah. Killing killing twenty seven hundred to three thousand unarmed prisoners. Like there's no Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

That's a bad time. That's a that's a bad way to do things. Um another big thing that I'll get into just like as we're prologging right now is that the the kings that came down that really solidified the siege being a win on the crusader side was the coming of Richard, King of England and Philip II, King of France. Uh one of the may I maybe not wildest things that happens, but something that certainly to me seemed surprising was that Philip II is basically like, I think I'm good here. Uh and so he leaves, he goes back to France, and uh I think he's pretty much resolved on where he's at and he's ready to get get things going. And this is uh very alarming for the fans of Richard because as we know, they had to kind of settle their agreement to not uh because they were rivals up in England, like they uh, of course, Richard King of England, Philip II King of France, they have overlapping territories. We kind of got into that a few episodes ago, and so Richard has large swaths of land in France. Exactly, yes, as a as a duke, not as a king, but it does create this kind of conflict of interest between the two of them. And it's and it's already been stated they have personal beef with each other. Richard kind of uh finagled this arrangement to marry Philip's sister, which he got out of, and Philip took that as a personal slight. These two dudes don't like each other. One of the reasons they went on crusade together was to kind of keep each other in check, because if you're right next to this dude, you know he's not trying to stab you in the back. So Philip leaving so early was weird, and as we'll get into, is is going to is going to leave leave an impact on how everything concludes here.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

It sounds like we have a lot to get to.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

We do, we do, but I I think I think we've got a good pace here. I think we're gonna be good. Um so the question that we have as we as we get into the meat and potatoes of this episode is how is the crusader camp going to complete this journey up to Jerusalem, finish their siege, retake the city, uh as as a victory for Christendom, retake the the true cross, the relic that they've lost a couple years ago. Here's my cold open. Reykue the music. A warm Semitic air that blew softly through the camps of Ayyubid Jerusalem, as the mighty Sultan Saladin concluded his address to his war torn soldiers. The polytheists have made their treacherous march, but in the name of Allah they will come no further to desecrate this holy land. He stood, face stoic, yet full of ferocity. The days of defeat have come to their dusk, and the dawn of victory stands now. The men lifted their swords and sabers high, and with a prayer they prepared for the long awaited siege to begin. As the Sultan descended from his pulpit he was approached by his advisor, Baha Adin. I think that went as well as one could hope, inshallah. My liege, may I have a moment of your time? The two men stepped aside into a private quarter behind the mighty Jerusalem walls. There is a great grumbling within the masses. The Turks and Kurds continue their quarrel with one another. I'm afraid that your men, the mer the very men who just hurd alongside you, have been feigning their loyalty. There is word that they will soon launch a revolt against you. The mighty Sultan's countenance fell. These were the words that he dreaded to hear it had intended. Anticipated for some time. The Muslim armies had faced severe losses over the past months, and the illusion of Islamic unity was beginning to show its cracks. We must make haste to leave this holy city behind. You will not survive another evening here, I'm afraid. As soon as these words left his advisor's mouth, a messenger burst in to interrupt. Saladin, urgent news. Look to the west. Saladin bolstered his strength, anticipating the first charges of the crusaders as they made their way to complete their holy voyage. But as he looked over the horizon towards the camps of the Franks, his jaw fell ajar. The crusaders, led by their steadfast King of England, Richard the Lionheart, had turned their backs to the holy city. They were leaving, and the siege was never to occur.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

So we have a little time jump here.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

Oh, yeah, yeah. We we we went with the nonlinear approach here. But yes, that's kind of how things are gonna end. So now I'm gonna fill in the gaps for you guys. How do we get there? So uh where we're at essentially, as we've already said, uh Acre is now in Crusader hands. That is a big win for the Crusaders. Uh as we've discussed, and we'd encourage you guys to pull up a map. I'd love to put one up to uh as a little visual for our friends who are watching the video here. Uh, but Acre is right on the uh right along the Mediterranean Sea, very, very important because it means that there is a nice little uh waterway that's going to allow the West to continue to bring in resources. So after they take it, they know they need to head south. And heading south inland is a dangerous thing to do. And the reason for that is because for all the difficulty that the Crusaders have had through this time, they've spent very little of it actually in enemy territory. As long as they've had the coast, they've had easy access to reinforcements. But as soon as they go inward, they're subject to lots of raid attacks, they're a lot more separated from their supplies, and they're much more vulnerable. So Richard, being a very wise-minded military man that he is, says we need to head south, and we need to head south along the coast so that we can have that support from the waterways that's going to keep us connected with our supply lines. And so that's what they that's what they start to do.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

So they start taking coastal cities.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Exactly. Exactly. So they're gonna head south, they're gonna head uh, I think Jaffa is the is the primary spot that he wants to get to. Uh, they're gonna cross through Arsif as well. And there are gonna be some some significant battles here. Uh, again, for the sake of just kind of covering everything today, you guys can definitely look into that on your own. But these are successful battles. They're gonna do, they're gonna do very well for themselves here. And so uh they're going to make it from from Acre along the coast, south, down the Mediterranean, towards uh through Arsif and through Jaffa. And both of these are not just wins for the Crusaders, they're kind of embarrassing for Saladin. Because again, Saladin Saladin has just lost Acre, which was a two-year-long siege that he fought tooth and nail not to lose. And now he's lost two straight, which are going to continue to strengthen the Crusaders as they start to eventually march towards Jerusalem. And so he's in a bad spot. These have been decisive losses for the for the Muslims, and so he is going to start using a uh a new tactic, which Taylor referred to uh earlier when talking about uh the the tactics of the of the Asia Minor Muslims when they were fighting the Germans up north, which is he's gonna go scorched earth. So what he starts to do is basically every fort and stronghold that leads from the coast closer towards Jerusalem, he's just raising them down. So he's destroying a lot of property and a lot of these areas to basically make it as long and as treacherous a journey for the Crusaders as possible. So they've got nowhere to restock, they've got they've they're more and more distant from their supplies, and it's just gonna be a lot more challenging for them. So this is Saladin A being a little petty, but also just kind of showing his desperation. He's like, I if if these guys have got momentum, we're gonna sever it by any means possible, even if it means something that's potentially hurting us.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Well, it makes sense though, because if you're gonna lose it anyway, and you have no immediate means of taking it back, it makes sense to be like, yeah, well, giving them another fort andor fortified uh coast city is not an option. Right. Right, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

So it's smart, it's a smart move, but it's uh and it is it is going to make it a lot more challenging for the Crusaders as they start moving east. Now, what's interesting is uh the reason I liked that we started this episode with the uh with the massacre at Ayadia is because it's kind of demonstrating that Richard, who is a man who has an incredible reputation as this military mastermind, as this dude who is just for his people, who really does have a religious devotion and longing to get to the holy city, it's kind of showing that he's got some cracks in his leadership. Because he's not super popular for doing what he does when he slaughters all these people, but he's going to continue to make decisions that are not popular with the people that he's leading. And something that Tom Asbridge says a lot, which we'll refer to, is that Richard is using so much military strategy that makes sense when you're in England and when you're in continental Europe, but and he's he's actually pretty harsh when he speaks about it. He's basically like Richard failed to understand how to crusade well, and so we'll talk about that in a second. But but one of the first strikes for that is that they're gonna get to Jaffa, and Jaffa is again uh more like well south of uh of Acre, and it's basically a straight shot east to get to Jerusalem. So all the Crusaders, when they get to Jaffa, are like, sweet, now we can finally start making our push towards the Holy City. Because again, this is like this is a religious thing. They're they're still kind of walking in the footprints of the first crusaders, they see this as a religious pilgrimage, they can't wait to reclaim the true cross, they can't wait to worship at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. And then Richard says, Actually, I think we need to keep going south. His mentality is I think we need to go further south and take Ashkelon.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

You know what goes through my mind immediately? What's that? Richard doesn't care about getting Jerusalem, he cares about establishing a strong little county over here.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

You you might not be wrong. I think there's a lot of more display. No, no, by no means.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Absolutely, there's no way he would ever say that.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

No, and I and I I don't think he ever said it because I don't think he would mean it, but I also think that what you're saying, and especially when as we as we get more into the story, it's it's really it's possible. There's something there.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Am I not the f I'm guessing I'm not the first person to By no means, no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

And and Tom, Tom Asbridge, our our our boy, and and big friend of the show, Tom, thanks for listening. Um is uh is going to reiterate this. I do want to take a quick moment to read this quote. I loved it. Uh this is from this is from Tom Asbridge too, but this is a uh this is a quote from a Latin contemporary. And this is like people were people were mad at Richard because pretty much every battle he that they fought, he was like on the front lines for. And he has this very like uh it's a very knights, it's a very like European thing, but he's like, I'm the king, I'm a brave guy, I'm gonna be there with you all. And they were like, Look, Frederick's dead because he drowned, uh, Philip left, like we need you alive because we need a solid leader to keep this thing together. And he had a quote where he said, uh, yeah, they they said they said, King Richard, if harm comes to you, Christianity will be killed, which is a crazy thing to say. But Richard's response, enraged, was uh it says, uh, the king's color changed, and he said, I sent these soldiers here and asked them to go, and if they die there without me, then would that I never again bear the title of king.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Well, I mean, that's pretty noble.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Yeah, yeah, and that and that's like like this is this is Richard. This is the dichotomy of him. He's he is uh he's a military guy through and through. He's for his people, but he's also he's smart and he is a strategist.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

He it could be a dual thing. It absolutely is. He's like, uh, you know, maybe I get to Jerusalem, maybe I don't. I don't really care. But I do want to make sure I get this taken care of. But then also he's like, and there's no way I'm gonna tell my boys to go take a city and I'm not gonna be there.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Oh, absolutely. Yes. And that's crazy enough is going to be a conversation that's gonna come up in the next few months.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Let me ask you this did French did the French leave troops behind, like under lesser people's commands? I I'm not a hundred percent sure.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

I do, I don't think they took the whole French army with them. I would check on that, but I I would be I would be surprised if they didn't leave at least a couple thousand troops.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

But Philip was like, I'm going home. He's like, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Yeah, he's like, I'll go.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

I'm gonna I'm ready to go home and betray Richard.

unknown 33:26

Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Um so Richard's whole thing is uh we need to keep going further south. We need to establish more uh more ports along the Mediterranean because once we start going inland, we need to have as many connections to the waters as possible so that we can keep our supplies tight, which is very smart. But the problem is when he says that, I think Asbridge used the the analogy of like, it's as if the door to the Holy Land was wide open and they were just walking past it. And so all the people who were with him, all the crusaders, were like, what the heck are we doing? We don't want to go south. Like we we can literally, like it's it's it's it's right down the road here, man. Let's just press forward.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

And so especially since the the Latins had tire and acre.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Mm-hmm. Dude, and and Arsif and Jaffa. So they were they were doing that.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

After they had those, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Yeah, so I I get it. I get it. Um, there's a tiny little chapter that I really wanted to get into, which I found really interesting here. So um, we're not gonna talk a ton about Saladin's uh dramas going on. Suffice to say, uh, we've mentioned this for a few episodes. There's lots of cracks in this allure of oh, he's the one who united all of Islam. But then, of course, the first big battle they have in the crusade, you've got tons and tons of Muslims who are deserting, not because they hate Saladin, but because they want to go back home. But also there are scattered loyalties here. We talked about how uh the Germans got free passage from the Seljuks because they didn't really care that much about favoring Saladin.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

The any goodwill that he had earned what at this point, are we coming up on 10 years since From Hatton or Hattine?

SPEAKER_03 35:23

It's been a while, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

I mean, all of that is gone. Like depleted, and now he's in the negative.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

He's he's he's got some making up to do for sure. Um, and so now there are leaders within Saladin's camp who were not outright treacherous, but they're like there's there's this little moment which I don't think people talk about a ton because it's not well documented outside of Islamic sources. But essentially what we see is uh King Richard is going to have some like backdoor negotiations with I think it was Alad Aladil, Al Al, I forget his name, I'm sorry, but I think it was the brother of Saladin, one of his brothers that he co-leads with, and they basically have kind of a backdoor conversation where they're legitimately throwing around, I mean, and this is crazy to think of. They are talking about like, hey, what if you, Al Adil, what if you married my sister? Because then we could have like kind of a collaboration between the Latins and the Muslims, and they wanted to kind of create this like partnership where uh Muslims could uh continue to oversee Jerusalem, but then the Christians can can claim territory over the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and they have free passage for pilgrimage and maybe a couple perks here and there. And the Muslims are like interested in it, and that is like what such a crazy like what if this actually happened? Like, what if there was actually an intermarriage in the smack in the middle of the crusades?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

You know who would never have married his sister to a Muslim? Who Frederick? Yeah, no, that man, that man had too much integrity, darn it. Um dude, you keep I don't ri I don't know what to think of Richard. Because he has these like banger lines where he's like, How dial never forsake my men. Right. And then he like commits mass murder and then is now like maybe my sister can marry you. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

What you're talking? That whole thing, it seems like it goes nowhere because because it seems like so they were kind of like That's a terrible idea, they were negotiating back and forth, and then it seemed like the Muslims were like, I think we're open to it. And then Richard's like, ah, here's the thing though, guys. I'm so sorry. Um, my sister can't marry you because you're a Muslim. But what if you converted to Christianity? Because then then it would be so much easier. And then I think the Muslims were like, All right, we're just don't stop, stop playing with us, dude. Like, this is a waste of time. But these negotiations definitely happened where Richard was kind of trying to make these peace deals not just behind Saladin's back, but even behind the crusaders' backs, like trying to figure out peace. So he's he's uh he's a crafty one, dude. Like he's he's very uh military-minded, straight-minded, all that stuff. So um, so they are gonna go down to Ashkelon, which is actually one of the first ports that Saladin is gonna just ravage in his like new Scorched Earth campaign. So now the Crusaders, of course, are mega, mega ticked off because they get there, they find it torn to pieces, but so now they have to rebuild it. And so not only are they not going to Jerusalem, they're rebuilding a port city that they don't even feel like they need. And Richard's just like, Good job, guys, like keep it.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

And they didn't have, I mean, you gotta think, they didn't have like uh I don't know, what what are they like those big old Tonka trucks? Right. They didn't have heavy machines, so it's like they're having to drag every piece of burnt lumber on the room.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

Or just getting them off boats and stuff, yeah. It's just a very slow and unloading all the new supplies.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Oh man. While they're sitting there thinking, I don't even need to be here. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Why aren't we in Jerusalem?

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Right. So here's where things are gonna continue to go south is that uh the winter, this is 1191 now, the winter comes, and they're not technically like sieging anything, but there are of course skirmishes that are happening. I think they're still primarily based in Ashkelon, even though some are in different spots. Uh and the winter is awful. Like it is super brutal. And another thing that happened, and I I I may have missed it in my notes, so I gotta scramble a little bit, but one of the things that Asbridge was very critical of Richard for was that not only did they move, not only did they not go to Jerusalem when the Crusaders wanted to, but once they got to Jaffa, they slowed down. And what happened was the dudes who had just been sieging for two years straight, and then had these like two brutal but successful battles in uh in Arsuf and in uh and in Jaffa, they just kind of get some time to kick their feet up. And they're like lounging and they're getting like ladies of the night coming back in, and like the the the vigor and like the momentum is gone because now the process has slowed down so much. And Tom Asbridge is basically like the if you're crusading, you you can't slow down, you've got to keep pushing because you've got this like pious drive.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

One of the things I appreciate about Asbridge as a historian is that he's willing to play he's willing to throw his two cents in, which in the academic world is much rarer than you'd think. Right. Um, because nobody wants to make a claim that they can't back up with evidence. But Av Asbridge is happy to say, he says it multiple times about Saladin, if he had pushed in here, he probably would have won. Absolutely. And so I didn't read that section. Did he say if Richard had just in 1191 after the siege is done, if he had just used the rest of the fighting season, he could have taken Jerusalem? Like, is that Asbridge's take?

SPEAKER_03 41:51

He didn't say it, and I think it's because it's prob it's probably hard to tell. And I'll say why. So when this horrible winter comes through, Richard is like visibly indecisive about what to do. Because he's basically like, this winter sucks, and they're starting to like slowly move along uh towards Jerusalem. So they haven't completely stopped, they haven't, they're not completely inert, but they're so they're slowly moving towards Jerusalem, they're taking a little bit of territory as they can, but the winter is awful, and they're finding that being distant from the coast is making it really hard to keep supplies, and also because they're distant from the coast, they're not just they are very vulnerable to raiders, but anyone bringing supplies is also vulnerable to raiders. So they've basically had unlimited ammo for the past two years because of how close they were to the Mediterranean. Now they're having to figure out how to run a whole new system. So Richard's kind of like brainstorming here, and he's like, man, uh, we're having a really hard time communicating with the Crusaders back at base. Uh, we're not keeping our supplies in good order. And then he's thinking, he's like, Jerusalem is also an awful city to have to take because it's up in the mountains, it's very well fortified, and we're already kind of running on dregs here. So he's gonna call a council, which is you know something that only a king can do, right? Because he's gonna appoint people to be in the council who he already knows are gonna agree with him, and he's basically like I think we should call this off. I think we should uh maybe we should turn this around. I think we should uh r reconvene and and think through a better option here. And the people are devastated because they're like So he does say we should not go to Jerusalem.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

He does, he does. Oh my gosh. But that's also different than uh I'm happy with my giant swath of land I just took. He doesn't say that. But he does question whether we should continue on into Jerusalem.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Yes, that's crazy. It's there too. It's not that far. It is not far at this point, yeah. Um so he gets back to Jaffa. And and the and the plan is not let's go back to Europe. The plan is literally like he he because he has other ideas, just like when he went to Ashkelon, he has other ideas of what he could do to pressure Saladin, but he doesn't think. A siege on Jerusalem is smart. He thinks that's going to get him and the army in trouble, and he doesn't want to lose after all these all these dubs they've been collecting. And so they get back to Jerusalem. They get back to Jaffa and he gets all this bad news from all these people who have been trying to communicate with him. The first is that all these dudes throughout the Crusader states have been like fighting with each other, and there's just like constant infighting. The second piece of bad news he finds out is that there's some shady stuff happening back in Europe because good guy Phil got back over there and Philip literally immediately attacked his lands. Dude, he signed a truce with uh Richard before they left, which said, While we are crusading, even if only one of us is crusading, while we are crusading, we cannot mess with each other's stuff while one of us is gone. When Philip gets back, he appeals to the Pope to try to get that agreement nullified because he's like, Forget what I said. This is a golden goose of opportunity, and I want to get these territories back while I can. And the Pope rejects it, and I think Philip just kind of steamrolls ahead anyways. He hasn't done anything yet, but there's rumors, and those rumors are getting back to Richard. And so now Richard's like, Well, there's a lot of crap going on. Hold on, what are we gonna do? And so Richard's like, okay, well, first off, Richard's like, okay, let me think. He's like, I may need to go back to Europe sooner than I expected. And if I do, I can't leave with all these dudes being petty and fighting with one another. And two of the big folks who have been fighting are two people that we've been talking about from the beginning, our boy Conrad and our good friend, good friend of the show, guy. So they start fighting again? Oh, yeah. They they never they I I think they got to they got together just for the siege, but they did not like each other because both of them want to claim that Jerusalem should be theirs once they get to it. And so uh, and so Richard has them sit down and he's like, all right, look. He's like, Conrad, he's like, once we take Jerusalem back, again, once we, when we take Jerusalem back, Conrad will be king. Guy, I'm sorry, guy, I'm sorry. Not here's the thing, guy. Remember, he's like, when I was sailing down here, I found this really nice island that the Greeks weren't using. And I think you should be Lord of Cyprus and we'll give you a butt ton of money as compensation. And so he gets the two of them to agree and they shake hands to it and they're cool with it. And two days later, I mean maybe it wasn't two days later, it was like within a month, though. Our boy Conrad is riding along, feeling very confident, because he's like, I finally got it, the recognition I deserve, I'm finally gonna be king one day. And as he's riding along, he sees these two men standing on this on the side of the street, and one of them is kind of waving at him, like kind of waving for him to stop, like they're messengers, and one of them has like a letter that he is trying to hand to him. And so Conrad kind of slows down and he reaches for the letter, and when he reaches his hand out, the man grabs Conrad's wrist and he pulls a knife out and he stabs him in the gut, and the other guy jumps on the back of Conrad's horse and just goes to town on him. And these two dudes murder Conrad of Montferrat, who was supposed to be the king of Jerusalem once the Crusaders retook. Tell me Guy put them up to it. Here's the thing nobody knows. It's it's all so we we know this. Uh I think uh one of the assassins was killed uh as he was fleeing, the other one was captured, and I think the Crusaders, they like I don't know, they tortured this guy, they like dragged him on the back of a horse until he died. They're really, I mean, obviously he he killed a very important noble, so that was a big deal. But these two men were part of the Order of Assassins, which is a yeah, like some Assassin's Creed stuff, dude. It's it's so this is a a Muslim Shia, so not Sunni, which is which is what Saladin is, um a Shia, like little nomadic community that kind of plays to whatever side pays them to do whatever. I think their leader was like called King of the Mountain or something like that. Like it's very a very like shadowy kind of thing. Sounds like a D D villain, but it's real, but it's and no one to this day knows who put uh who put those two up to it. Some think it was Saladin trying to destabilize the crusaders, some think it was Richard because Richard had initially favored Guy and didn't like Conrad. Um, but nobody knows. Nobody knows for sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Um I don't I don't want my boy Guy. Guy has been one of the more respectable characters in the Crusades. He's just a cool guy. I don't want Guy, I don't want it to be Guy.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

Right. I hope not too. I don't know. I also wonder if Guy just has the resources. I don't know if Guy could put that together.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Yeah, like right, where's he getting money to pay some fancy pants assassins? Yeah, this dude hasn't been king for six years. Conrad, though. Conrad had money, not enough money.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

Yeah, he was the he was the he was the king at he was the he was the head honcho entire. Yeah. Um I read a uh a contemporary historian, Imad Adin, uh, who was a moderator from this time, and he was actually very blunt in being like Christians did this. He was like the king of he's like the king of England, uh hired these guys. He went as far as to say, I he's like, these two dudes were Christians, uh, like the assassins were. He's like, they were Christians. He's like, I heard that they were going to church for a year before they murdered this guy. He's like, these were Christians, these were not Muslims, which is I think very ah.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

It's really funny for for him to be like, I don't know, we didn't have anything to do with this. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 51:04

Yeah. Um, so yeah, it's like Richard felt like he finally got up got a win, was able to restabilize, kind of put the leadership problems to bed, and then you know, comrade gets assassinated. Uh things get worse. He finds out that not only are there rumors, but that Philip II, King of France, big time rival, has made an alignment with Prince John, who I believe is uh was Richard's brother, and Prince John held nobility, held held high class in England, and now there were these rumors that like with Philip's help, Prince John was going to try to usurp Richard's throne, which was a bad time. So Richard, but Richard once again is not rushing back to Europe because I think he's he's in he's in it for the love of the game, you know, he's he's having a good time. And so he says, he gathers his folks and he says, Listen, I'm down to do one more unified push. He's like, let's do one more attack. He's like, but listen, Jerusalem is cooked, it's not it's not worth it. But he he has an alternative. He says, let's continue to head further south, let's attack Egypt. Because Egypt is where Saladin is getting all of his resources from south of where they're at. And so he's like, if we can get to Egypt and if we can take some territory there, then we can sever basically a big chunk of where Saladin is getting his resources from, and maybe we can pressure Saladin to basically coming up with an agreement, an arrangement to where we can take Jerusalem. He's like, I don't think we can take Jerusalem by force, but I think if we're smart, we can arrange something. And dude, that's a bold move. Very bold, very bold. And it's, you know, it reminds me of the Second Crusade after Edessa got got burns to the ground and the crusaders were like, let's just take Damascus instead. But the thing is, you've rallied thousands of young, feisty, like testosterone, like driven dudes, and they're super psyched about Jerusalem, and now you're saying, let's attack this place a couple hundred miles away, and maybe they'll just give us Jerusalem.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

From from a strategic standpoint, if if Richard is really in this for the long haul, I do see his point. Like they're they're all obsessed, you're all obsessed with Jerusalem because you want to visit some holy sites. Get over it. Like, it's almost like you're fine. If I want to win this war, I have to take out Saladin at his home. Exactly. Yeah, okay, alright, okay.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

And it's and it's like Thomas was was talking about like like Tom Asbridge was saying, he was looking at it like he was looking at it like a like a like a military strategist, but he wasn't looking at it like a crusader. And what happens is the crusaders are basically like uh Mr. Lionheart, big fan, let me just say, really love what you've done for us. You can go with us to Jerusalem or you can stay here, but we're gonna go to Jerusalem and we're gonna siege the city. And so that puts Richard in a corner, and he's like, Well, I have a dupe in a corner. And he's like, he's like, I have a responsibility to my men. He's like, I have a responsibility to these people. And so they basically follow in the same footsteps that they were in, I think just maybe a month, couple weeks ago. They head within, I forget the distance, but it was like within a day's march of Jerusalem. Same deal. Difficulty with the supply lines, bad communication with their bases, um, getting hammered by all these raiding camps, and they get within that like walking distance, and Richard's like, we're not doing this. We're not gonna siege this city. It's a disaster. We are not going to win, and I am not. And then, like, this is another thing that Thomas Asbridge uh mentioned. He's like, he's like, I don't want to do this, and I'll tell you why. I've got a reputation to uphold, and I don't want to look like I led you dummies on a suicide march because you didn't know how to parse what a good military move was. So if you want to go on without me, go on without me. But I'm not leading this army to Jerusalem. And it's crazy that there's like that these dudes who seem like they would have jumped off a cliff for each other are now like completely at each other's throats, basically.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

I want to trust uh Richard's military understanding. I kind of I want to give the benefit of the doubt that maybe he knew. Like he's he's one of the most educated guys out there, right? He's had all this training. I want to say maybe if he thought he could take it, that he would be like the most like that that would be his crowning achievement, right? Absolutely. Why would he not why would he not do it?

SPEAKER_03 56:35

Right, right. And so I think like what you asked earlier, I think is solid because I like and and this was uh this was something where our historians were very critical of Richard because they were basically like Richard knew that Jerusalem was going to be a massive task to complete, but he knew that months ago. So why did he continue to lead them half like within a walking distance, only to then decide not like he got very indecisive. I think he felt a lot of pressure, but he all I think it was the pressure of like, do I go with my people who I love and want to support, or do I follow myself as a leader? It was a lot of kind of that back and forth. Um, and so you know, the story from the cold open was kind of demonstrated as true, which is Saladin has done this scorched earth thing, he's been trying to raise all of these forts down. He's getting ready to kind of bolster Jerusalem for this siege that he thinks is inevitable. Um and he gives this rousing speech to the soldiers there, and then he hears from one of his advisors hey, um, they're gonna revolt against you very soon. And Saladin, before he found out that the Crusaders were about to turn around, had made plans to leave the city because he was like, if I stay in Jerusalem, they're gonna kill me and they're gonna replace me. He's like, so I'm gonna, he's basically he was gonna So the crazy thing is that if Richard really does follow through and take dr and go to take Jerusalem, there's actually a good chance that with how divided the Muslims were, it yeah, it it's it's made of it's stuck in cardboard and paper mache.

SPEAKER_00 58:19

What a crazy what if.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Yeah. That's a crazy what if. Uh it sounds like Richard though is just fed up at that point.

SPEAKER_03 58:28

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 58:29

Because so they didn't want to follow him to Egypt.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Don't go down to Egypt.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

And uh so they didn't want to do that. And he finally so he finally says, fine, we'll go to Jerusalem, and they and it's already a pain in the neck before they even get there. And he's exactly that's he He should never have agreed to do it. A hundred percent. He should never if he was that resolved. But it sounds like he I love what you said. He's more of a uh he's a military strategist trying to win a war. He's not a crusader, right?

SPEAKER_03 59:03

Because crusaders don't stop. Crusaders go and they trust that the power of God will deliver their enemy into their hands, basically.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

Um Can you imagine what uh Bernie would have said if he was alive at this time? Yeah, yeah. Dude, he would have been devastated.

SPEAKER_03 59:20

Yeah, well, he would have probably called them out for being cowards, basically. Yeah, yeah. Um so yeah, so uh he does he does turn around. It's kind of this insane moment where like Jerusalem is being held together by like shoestrings and bubblegum, but the crusaders don't know it. They do end up turning around. Saladin probably breathes the biggest sigh of relief his frail 50-year-old body could muster. And uh and they they create the they they start meeting together to establish terms of agreement. Richard and Saladin never once, I don't believe, actually meet in person. All of their uh like treaty agreements for like ending the crusade are all through his advisors, and mostly because Saladin is super sick. He's been sick for like several months at this point. Um and so uh they do agree to oh, I guess first I should say there are some members of the army who do try to take a seat, try to siege Jerusalem without Richard, which of course falls apart immediately. Um not that fragile, I guess. Um But there's this quote, very heartbreaking quote, uh, about the the the depression of of Jerusal of the Crusaders where it says, Latin eyewitnesses describe how the people were wailing and complaining, grieving because of the continued failure to march on the holy city. By early July, the continued turmoil had effectively um immobilized the crusade. The French seems to have m seem to have made a last ditch attempt to initiate an advance on the third of July, but without Richard's support, this collapsed with no way forward. The Christian host finally accepted the inevitable and began a dispirited retreat, according to Blair, which knew which now spread through the army that they would not worship at the Holy Sepulchre, which was four leagues away. Their hearts were filled with sorrow, and they turned back so disheartened and miserable that you quote never saw a chosen people so depressed and dismayed. Wow. Yeah. So Wednesday, the s uh Wednesday, the second of September 1192, the two sides agreed to a truce that the Muslims would retain control of Jerusalem, the Christians would keep most of the coastal city, so they keep Acre, they keep Jaffa, Ashkelon would get razed to the ground again, even though they'd rebuilt it. Um and the f and the Christians would have safe passage for pilgrimage, but they would not re retake the city. Also, no mention of the true cross relic came up in any of the uh the peace treaties, which I thought was really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

Yeah, maybe he never gave it back after that is interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:20

It could have been destroyed after the massacre, for all we know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:23

Yeah, I mean they also could have never had it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:27

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've talked about the sketchiness of the relic.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

Yeah. So Richard goes he turns around and goes back and starts warring with France. Yes. And then he ends up dying a few years after this while from he gets shot in the shoulder by a crossbow. And he gets infected. And he dies from that. And then Saladin dies actually very he dies next year after this from a fever.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:55

He never recovered from his sickness.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

Yeah. It's like what a it really feels like an end of an era. It is. It is. And I we've spent so long with these guys. We spent so especially Saladin, we spent a long time with Saladin. We did.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:14

And it's it's interesting that like Saladin's I think Saladin's legacy, I think the fact that he took Jerusalem, it's kind of like it's kind of like winning the the world heavyweight championship. It's like even if you win it one time and then you have a terrible career after that, no one can take away that you were the world heavyweight champion. I think that's kind of how it is. Because people don't like Muslim scholars don't look back on Saladin like, oh yeah, he got Jerusalem, but then he got his tail handed to him. Like, no, they they kind of see him as a champion. And what was interesting to me about this is like if you look at this story through the lens of like God gives favor to his people. I actually wonder if the Muslims have a better like argument to make that God was showing them favor than the Christians. Because you've got the crazy death of Frederick, you've got all the infighting amongst the crusaders, you've got Richard turning around what he maybe, maybe could have taken Jerusalem by himself. Like if you're looking at this specifically through the lens of like our religion's God is preserving us, it actually feels like the Muslims have a better argument than the Christians do.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:38

Well, and I I think you just have that's a r this is a really good, like kind of closing discussion. Because I I think in our personal lives we have to be very careful about just assuming if something goes right, that means we're being blessed. Right. Uh especially if if you have made or we have made or I have made any sort of sinful decision and there's fruit from that, that's not from God. Right. Right. And so I wonder with Frederick being so pious, I wonder if God was like, I have to take you home now, bud. Because you're off on this. I mean, I Because Frederick could have been a good Christian guy, and he could have just been and if crusading is not the greatest decision to embark on, right? The Lord could have said, Okay, Frederick, we're we're gonna take you home now. Yeah, I don't want to.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:39

We'll take a little take a little swim and you'll wake up with Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

Yeah, exactly. And that yeah, that that could have been that. If you're gonna judge your faith solely off of like who wins the Muslims here, right. Right 100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:58

And I I think this is what gives me a lot of caution about just like you said, whether it's in our personal lives or or whether it's in history, like I I I think that it's very reductive to the providence of God to say that like, oh, I uh, you know, I this random thing happens to me, and you know, clearly God was was was favoring me in this. And I I don't know. It's just like there's cause because how many people have we ever heard who said like, oh, I did this thing that was morally questionable, but then I got something really good out of it. So clearly God was like endorsing that. And it's like, no, no, no, like just do. What we're supposed to be doing, like walk humbly, like you know, live justly, like all the things that Christ calls us to do. Do those things. And if evil befalls you, know that you're suffering with Jesus and that's okay. And if good befalls you, receive it as grace. But you know, divining our circumstances uh to to try to measure God's favor just seems like a very treacherous way to live, whether it's as a historical interpreter or just as a Christian living day-to-day.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

Yeah. So I think I think that's a a really good closing word.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

Yeah. Yeah. But uh, but yeah, the third the third crusade. Fascinating stuff. I think we had some really interesting dudes we got to spend some time with.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

We did, and they all like die. Like they all die in this time period. Guy dies uh uh for natural causes. What happened? Oh, I was gonna say what what was the name of the guy that got assassinated? Conrad. He died on his horse. Yeah, yeah. Conrad had the worst well, I think Richard being a bit of a warmonger.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:50

Yeah. I mean con Conrad seems that almost seemed like the because he he seems like he was leveraging for power for a long time. Oh, constantly.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:03

Because the fact that he was the guy got the throne in the first place.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:06

Exactly. And the fact that he kept Tyre under such a tight leash, like but he was always levering leveraging that for like when we get back in control, I want a bigger, a bigger.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

Talk about a sermon illustration.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:22

That he gets here.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

Dude, guy gets handed Jerusalem, gets told you will or King Conrad gets handed Jerusalem, you will be king. And then he gets iced. It gets iced immediately after. Yeah. It's like he he clawed and who knows what horrible backstabby decisions he made his whole life trying to get what he wanted. And then it was handed to him and he was killed.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:48

Dude, that's that's a that's that's a proverb right there, dude. Like it really is. It really is. So yeah. But anyways, guys, that's the third crusade. Um yeah, really fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:00

Throw throw uh if you if you want us to cover anything in your break, in the break, throw us some episode ideas.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:07

We're trying to get some decent guests on in the meantime, so yeah, we've got some fun ideas, but yeah, we love to just do anything off the wall, far from the medieval era, if at all possible. But yeah, we'd love to dig around and uh make a fun, fun show for you guys. So let us know what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:24

That's right. That's right. Yeah. We need to go into patristic sometime soon. That'd be too fun. Keep our palates wet.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:31

Yeah.

unknown 1:09:33

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

Okay, bye-bye, everybody.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:38

We'll see you guys later. And we're looking forward to our watch party coming up in about a week, so don't forget about that. Details are in the show notes. Join our Discord, and uh, we'll see you guys next week. Bye bye.