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Maven Marketing with Brandon Welch
Each year, business owners spend one trillion dollars on advertising with very little to show for it. In fact, eight out of ten say they are not confident they are getting their money’s worth.
Without throwing money at advertising, how do you grow your business?
Maven Marketing with Brandon Welch is a workshop-style podcast answering real growth questions from today’s business leaders. Each episode will introduce you to the Maven Method, our straight-forward, proven approach for growing a business without wasting money on ineffective ads.
Trade the marketing lies for solid growth strategies so you can reach your big dream!
Join Brandon Welch and co-host, Caleb Agee, each week for Maven Monday and Frankly Friday!
Maven Marketing with Brandon Welch
When Should You Change Up Your TV or Radio Schedule?
FREE MARKETING AUDIT: MavenMarketingAudit.com
Our Website: https://frankandmaven.com/
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/frank-and-maven/
Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Caleb Agee
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy
Episodes Mentioned In This Podcast:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT2L1HXG4SwKFVOwL3iBKPo2-tkDzY1mw&si=O_jqM1I_nZGkdVTJ
Do you have a marketing problem you'd like us to help solve? Send it to MavenMonday@FrankandMaven.com!
Get a copy of our Best-Selling Book, The Maven Marketer Here:
https://a.co/d/1clpm8a
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast. Today is Maven Monday. I'm your host, Brandon Welch, and I'm joined by Caleb going camping AG.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:He is going to go like a real man and take his family. That's right Down by the river, down by. What else are you going to?
Speaker 2:do. It's a lake, I think, technically, but Okay, our lakes here are rivers. We were just talking about that today. It's a river with a dam on the end of it With just feet on top of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we just stop them up, but we're going to have fun.
Speaker 2:We're going to couple three days out in the wild we just saw a video of a bear wandered in a town, in the town next to the woods where we're going so that's a good start, right before you go yeah, like I saw this like animal control, catching the bear and putting in a cage to take it back out to the wild.
Speaker 1:So I saw, I thought you were going to say but this video, I saw the idea, this guy whose judgment was temporarily impaired, yeah, um this bear is barely there.
Speaker 1:It just walked up in their yard Having this picnic and the guy's like Frank, you gotta leave. And he's like showing him the door. He's like get out of here, frank. He's patting him on the back and the bear just swipes him, scrapes his skin off, just slapped him hey, be careful. So this is the place For 102 episodes, now that we help you eliminate waste in advertising, grow your business so you can achieve the big dream. And if you are new to the podcast, you want to rewind and go watch the last two episodes, because that's an overview of what we've been doing for the last almost two years. Next week, I think, is officially two years. Yes, it is, and that is super exciting. It's the first week of June and we do this because we are unreasonably obsessed with helping entrepreneurial people little companies that are on their way to being big companies do that just a little faster, with a little less heartache.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so if you're here for the first time, welcome. We are adding members every day to our subscribers. If you've been here for the whole long thing, we're about to be in a whole new season. We're turning this thing up. We're going to start doing deeper recaps of our episodes offline. In some printed materials You're going to see more shorts and more shorts of the video variety, not below the table, not below the table.
Speaker 3:You'll just see us from the waist up from now on. Who knows what's going on.
Speaker 2:You don't know if we're wearing shorts or not. That's right, and we like to keep it that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a period of time when you're doing podcasting where you're like okay, let's just prove to myself that we're actually doing it. I think we've got a pretty good track record.
Speaker 2:A hundred is pretty solid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one hundred is a pretty good mark and today, kind of in true Maven Monday fashion, we're just taking a real life topic.
Speaker 1:It's a little bit in the weeds, but if you are building a local company and you were using media and if you were trying to become the most liked, trusted and well-known company in your market, which most people would say, yes, I would like to have that, uh, you're going to encounter this question at some point. Um and over over the years, this has come from clients. Uh, this last couple of weeks where we're onboarding some really awesome like new partner clients, and then we, uh, are increasing some budgets.
Speaker 1:I said we're increasing, we clients are increasing their investment because the stuff we're talking about just is working. It's working and they're growing and they want to double down on it schedule. Because if you've been part of the Maven marketing world or if you've read the book, you know that we are very long-term and strategic in how we decide to advertise and where we decide to advertise. And the short version of that is that you want to basically own an audience over and over and over and over again.
Speaker 2:We call that tomorrow marketing.
Speaker 1:We call that tomorrow marketing. We call that tomorrow marketing. You're waiting for the magical moment, especially if you're selling products that take a long time for people to get around to buying, like HVAC systems or home service or legal products or medical procedures, caskets, things that take a long time to come around to. Buying Caskets.
Speaker 1:I mean things that take a long time to come around to buying. There's a very, very small amount of people at the finish line wanting to buy those today, and there's a way to win those people over too. But usually the game for TV and radio is that you're trying to win over a large group of people so that one day, when they happen to suddenly need your product or service, tens and tens of thousands of them are eventually getting there. They think of you first and they feel good about you and they want to do business with you versus the other competitors, and they skip the search engines or they go to the search engines already looking for your name instead of trying to pick you off a list of random competitors. So this episode is kind of assuming that you are on board with that. If you haven't thought through that process, we have a really good episode. It was like in the 50 or 60 episode that was called.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll link it up in the show notes.
Speaker 1:We'll link it in the show notes, but it's called Watch this Before you Buy TV or Radio Ads.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And that would be like definitely a precursor to this one. But assuming you've watched that, assuming you're well on your way to being a tomorrow marketer, uh, we're so proud of you and the question is going to come up. Okay, I've been in this spot for, you know, two or three years. Yeah, when do I switch that up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's, I think, usually you. The assumptive behind that is shouldn't.
Speaker 1:I throw that out?
Speaker 2:Isn't that audience tired of seeing me? Or haven't I gotten them? Gotten everything? Out of this right, I squeezed it. As much juice will come out as come out by now. Yep, and it's actually. It's a good question, it's a fair question, but it can lead to a dangerous result if you don't think about it in the form of tomorrow marketing.
Speaker 2:And so every you know you can actually divide out the life cycle of your customer, the like the buying cycle of your product. You can divide that out by years and months and weeks and you'll find that a very, very small percentage of your audience, or of your you know of the world, is buying what you sell this week or this month. But if you stack that up, you know, let's say it's half of 1% is buying this month.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Next month it becomes one whole percent that you were talking to. If you're consistently, you know, having a radio or TV campaign, you were talking to that audience. Now we've got one whole percent. Yes, statistically is buying Right. Next, in four months, we're talking about. 2% of those people have entered the buying cycle and so what we want to do is stay there for a very, very long time because we don't want to lose the equity we've built. And that percent, that's compounding interest. Literally, that's happening over time.
Speaker 1:This wasn't in our show notes, but that's a really, really important equation. Just stop for a second. You're going, caleb. How in the heck would I know if half a percent is buying or 3% is buying? You would just look across your industry and say, okay, on average, how long does it take before somebody needs my product? How long do they have refrigerators? 13 years? How long do they have roofs? And if you don't know that, you really should be in your business. But how long does it take a family to get around to hiring an estate attorney? How long before people switch doctors? You can Google that or you can cheat GPT. It's not that hard to find. Just find the amount of years and it's going to give you a range. But let's just say it was 15, right? 15 is a pretty fair number we use for roofing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You would take the number one and divide it by 15, and you would get 0.06. We won't say the other 666 is behind it, but it's 0.06, maybe 0.07. And then, so that's your, that's your percentage per year, Yep. And then you would divide that by 12 months and that would give you huh, what do you know? Half a percent 0.005.
Speaker 2:Hey, we did not plan this. It's all on the fly, I promise Actually.
Speaker 1:I've done that so many, that math so many times.
Speaker 2:I knew yeah, that's why I picked 15.
Speaker 1:But there would be a half a percent per month and you're going okay. Well, if that's true, then it takes 15 years to get the full value out of my tomorrow marketing and, by the way, once that happens, the first half a percent just reset. Yeah, I have some clients that were early, early on in my career that are back and they were new when they started with me or otherwise they wouldn't have rolled the dice with me and yeah. Yeah, Anyway, they are getting a background to their very first customers like home improvement.
Speaker 2:That's so weird. And they're redoing their roofs.
Speaker 1:So, that is a really cool thing, and taking that away, you're going okay. The big idea here is that If we already have equity with that audience, why would we change it in the first place? And this is kind of point number one we're always trying to fill one glass at a time, yeah, and keep it full. Keep it full, that's right, and so that's.
Speaker 2:the thing is, we're going to fill it up this month and we're going to fill it up next month. 12 months out of the year, 52 weeks a year, we're going to be there.
Speaker 1:I think I should use a dating analogy right now, because it just seems like the model of courtship, right? The longer you court, the stronger the bond is and the less likely that you're going to you know he or she is going to have wandering eyes, right, yep, you're tighter bonded. But if you stop, you know, going on dates and over time which is that's the analogy for your showing up and telling them wonderful things about your company or talking about their life, right, and you're advertising that's when they become less bonded to you, so it can deteriorate. Harvard did a study a while back that talked about kind of the revolving window of influence and they said after 18 months it fully deteriorates. So we tend to consult about a year, up to a year and a half worth of our personal experience and, by the way, a lot of that happens in the subconscious.
Speaker 1:It's not like we go oh, I saw that ad 7.2 months ago, so I think I'll call that company. That's just the natural synaptic firing and the long-term memory that we hold on to for involuntary recall of companies or brands or people or whatever. And so after you could stop, if you've been advertising for a while, you could stop, and up to 18 months from now, you would get some measurable or some meaningful return on that, but after that it's kind of gone. But you don't want to do that because it takes a long time. It takes 18 months to build up to that too, right. And so, point being, generally the answer is never Just add to it, but there are some exceptions.
Speaker 2:Point number one is what we say around here is fill one glass at a time. It means do one thing, do it well, fill it all the way up, keep it full For at a time. It means do one thing, do it well, fill it all the way up, keep it full. For TV filling that glass means a minimum of three spots a week. We would recommend three to five. Five if you can. That's a full glass In a single program. Typically a habitual, maybe a news program is our favorite.
Speaker 1:News program, something that brings back an audience every day.
Speaker 2:Probably a little bit more local-minded. They come back every single day for that thing, and you're going to fill it up to five times a week. Yes, starting at no less than three.
Speaker 1:And somebody's like well, why wouldn't I be in more places? Because it takes repetition for them to remember you, Did you know. It takes repetition for them to remember you, did you know. It takes repetition for them to remember you, did you?
Speaker 2:know it takes repetition for them to remember you.
Speaker 1:I knew he was going to do that Repetition, plus the relevancy of your ad. Repetition plus relevancy. So the more relevant you are, the less repetitions you have to have. But when you're a roofing company, you're only going to be so relevant because people don't need the roof replaced, no matter how much they like you, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:If you're on radio, 35 spots in the 6A to 7P. That's the daytime radio, that's our philosophy 35 spots a week.
Speaker 1:If you want more reasons as to why those are the-.
Speaker 2:Go check out that, go check out that past episode and then also chapters 9 through 15 in the book.
Speaker 1:Kind of outline that Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so fill one glass at a time. Point number two is this a today or tomorrow campaign? That's the question you're going to ask yourself. Yeah, if you're saying hey, should I change it? Well, if it's tomorrow campaign?
Speaker 1:we just talked about all the reasons that you probably shouldn't change it talked about all the reasons that you probably shouldn't change it which tomorrow campaigns for service companies, which is the majority of this audience, and for people who are trying to become well-branded in their company. That's the biggest reason to use TV or radio. However, TV or radio can also be very good direct response, or what we call today medias.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And if, let's just say, you're promoting an event?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we used to work with a local event venue, yeah, and they'd run high frequency ads right up before the event or the ticket sales close.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're trying to get like, if you're measuring the entire thing of I ran it and then 30 days, how much money did I get from that? Well, you are going to sort of shake all the fruit off that tree before they have a chance to regrow. And if you're not thinking long term I don't I don't necessarily recommend that, but there are cases where it's like I've got to think short term I actually would change the audience, because if I'm not assigning any more value to the campaign than just what am I pulling off today, I actually would change the audience more often Because, yeah, just you got to go find a new tree to shake.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the more you do today marketing, the less it works. So, if you've done today, marketing to one audience, and you said, hey, I've got this shtick, this gimmick, this deal, this offer. Yeah. This event. Yes, if you've got this shtick, this gimmick, this deal, this offer, this event, well, that audience is going to become numb to the specialness of that after you've done it for three weeks or a month or whatever that might be, it's a technical term.
Speaker 1:Specialness, yeah, specialness, yes, you have a lot of specialness, thank you. That's what my mom tells me.
Speaker 1:But the best plan is to become the one that they think of first anyway, and you do that by just changing your message with the same audience over and over. Just keep being relevant by changing your message. So I will say there's a kind of a recent exception I've had to this rule so I didn't pull out of an audience, I didn't change the schedule altogether, but I have a client in Atlanta and very, very expensive market to get into.
Speaker 1:I mean we're talking multiple six figures to be even a small to medium-sized player in broadcast, and we've been magically, after 12 months, things were just like there was like this is awesome. It's feeling really good.
Speaker 1:And it's like, well, it just takes that long sometime to prime the pump and they're in the you know they're in home improvement space and you know all credit to them. They, they're like this is good, we. We feel confident when I invest some more money and so what should we do with that money? And okay, at that point I know I'm not going to pull off the programs. I've got like two audiences. I'm really I was really doubled down on or really heavy in. I know I'm not going to pull completely out because I've got really good equity and we made a good program decision anyway. But I did look at Google Analytics. I'm going this is a tomorrow campaign but we're getting some today results as a cherry on top and so, if I can, I think I was in five spots a week in one of the programs and I'm going.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to pull a couple spots from that and I'm going to put them more in this other program because I've got more money to spend more expensive program because I'm getting more responses. There I just reduced it a little bit. I kind of shifted some budget focus, so it was like 60-40. Now it's like 40-60. And that's okay to do because you can maintain an audience with less frequency, especially after a year's time.
Speaker 2:You still kept that anchor in both places. You just shifted the weight because you had budget to be able to spend more on the more expensive program.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it really. In that case it was a late afternoon program. We just noticed analytics direct traffic is spiking more at that time than it is middle of the day, it doesn't mean that other program is bad.
Speaker 1:That other program is actually probably a bigger. Reason why it's working later in the day it's just later in the day is when people are more likely to act on it. So those sorts of shifts are okay. But I love this quote the grass doesn't grow faster by tugging on it. Sometimes you just got to wait for the grass to grow. Right, that's right, and so that kind of leads to the third and final point. You can shift budget, but generally only add to it when your budget grows. You can buy that same audience, maybe beef it up, get more with that audience, or, if you've got enough, to buy a whole other program at spots a week.
Speaker 1:Um say it's a bigger program, more expensive. You couldn't do it at first, or two years ago you couldn't do it, but now you're spending twice the money so you can buy the big. I'm talking the 6 PM news. I'm talking 500,000 people in a month that are watching the same program. If you can afford to be on those all day long, you become a market leader. Yep.
Speaker 2:Because remember that that half of it's not half for you necessarily, but it could be. You could do your math half of a percent of that audience of that audience, yeah, and you could find that out pretty quickly with your, with your buy and the reach and frequency of that. But, um, that gets to be a big number, yeah, when you're buying those bigger audiences and it's, it's pretty exciting to yeah so that was all with TV Radio.
Speaker 1:it's just like I would probably buy 35 spots minimum 6A to 7P, monday through Friday. Again, if you want to know why, go listen to the other episode. And then I'd probably buy up to 55 to 65 spots a week in that same station. I would become like the most aggressive advertiser on that station before I would go add another station, you know before I'd go just like try to fragment that.
Speaker 1:So we're not adding other programs on radio, whereas we're adding other stations altogether. So if I'm on the, you know the country station and I'm doing really good at that frequency and it's like the client's grown, which happens a lot, and it's like what do we do next? Do we switch stations? No, we keep the same one, we add another one. Sometimes you're leapfrogging, sometimes you're beefing one up to the big level and then you're going okay, if I take a little bit off that big size and I can go pair a little bit more money with it and buy a second one, still with our minimum frequencies in place there, that's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a lot. We warned you that it was going to be a little bit in the weeds, yeah, so sorry for that.
Speaker 2:It's okay, it's fun. It's fun, you're a marketer. There's some nerds on here that appreciate that you like it.
Speaker 2:That's why you listen to week. You don't miss an episode. Okay, big recap, go for it, caleb. Number one don't change your programming just because Fill one glass. Maybe you've only got it three-fifths of the way full. Well, if you get more money, fill it all the way up and then, once you're full, then go to the next glass, move on. Keep continuing to own an audience. Win them. Don't give up on them, because they will turn into buyers Tomorrow. Campaigns are a matter of seed time and harvest. You, you know, don't go pulling on that grass unless you want it to come out on you Like it'll just pull right out of the ground. So, and then slight shifts are to bigger audiences are okay.
Speaker 2:Are okay when your budget changes. So that's. Brandon talked about the ratio changes and things like that. You can. There's nuance. There's nuance to all of this, but what you want to stay true to is you have built a relationship with a particular set of people. And don't let anybody creep in on that audience you are going to be their choice for insert what you do here, yep.
Speaker 1:Good episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Quickie but a goodie. Pair that with awesome messaging and some of the stuff we're going to be talking about coming up. How to create magnetic marketing campaigns with Carter. Tell them about the mastermind. Tell them about the mastermind.
Speaker 2:Hey, if you want to know how to do that and all this stuff we're talking about here, with a more hand-guided person in your corner, you could literally pull up your buy and say is this what you're talking about?
Speaker 1:Is this a little good, and which program would you choose? Yeah, and am I paying too much for this?
Speaker 2:We can't do that in this format, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:We can't. We can tell you stories of others, but if you want it done for you directly, kind of like we do for full-blown partner clients. Here we have a really cool new thing called the Maven Marketing Mastermind, and you're going to want to go to mavenmethodtrainingcom. That's on the screen now, and Carter just put a little cool sound effect when I said now, didn't you, carter? So you're going to be able to sign up there and for a very, very reasonable investment on a monthly basis For right now it's still $99 a month.
Speaker 1:The street price of that is going up to $250 very soon, but you can get in on the ground floor of that group and you can show up a couple times a month and I or Caleb or Leslie or another strategist on our team will be there answering your questions and just being like, yeah, this is what I would do.
Speaker 1:This is what all these wonderful clients that we talk about here, getting the great results this is what they're doing. So if you'd like to minimize your risk and increase your return on investment of whatever marketing plan you have going for your business, that is why the Maven Marketing Mastermind exists and we're so freaking excited about that.
Speaker 2:It'll be a group call twice a month and then I think another really cool piece will be we're building a community around that. Other marketers, other business leaders and you guys will be able to interact and ask questions of each other, learn from each other. It doesn't all have to be about marketing. If you know us in any form, we're all about taking it past, just marketing business as a whole. So it's going to be great.
Speaker 1:No doubt, yep, that's mavenmethodtrainingcom, and right now there's an offer to get that for $99 a month, and that's cheap insurance. Yes, and guess what If you hate it? We're going to give you your money back. Yeah. We're not trying to get rich off this. Yeah. Just to, just to cover some of the cost of doing it. So we'll be back here every Monday answering your real life marketing questions. Because marketers who cannot teach you why are just a fancy lie. Have a great week.