Maven Marketing with Brandon Welch

How to Hold Your Digital Ads Accountable

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CPC, CPL, CTR, CPM… confused yet? You’re not alone. 

Most business owners are tired of data nerds throwing around acronyms that don’t actually explain if their ads are making money.

In this episode, Brandon and Caleb “de-nerdify” digital marketing and break down the only 5 metrics you really need to watch to know if your campaigns are profitable. 

No fluff. No buzzwords. Just the truth.

Here’s what we cover:

  •  What impressions actually mean (and when they don’t matter)
  •  The click-through rate benchmarks that separate good ads from bad ones
  •  Cost-per-click: what’s normal, what’s not, and how competition drives it up
  •  Conversion rates—and why anything below 5% is a red flag
  •  The cost-per-lead number that tells you instantly if you’re making money or burning it

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by marketing reports that sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher, this episode is your shortcut to clarity.

Maven Marketing Mastermind → https://www.mavenmethodtraining.com

Our Website: https://frankandmaven.com/
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Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Caleb Agee
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy

Do you have a marketing problem you'd like us to help solve? Send it to MavenMonday@FrankandMaven.com!

Get a copy of our Best-Selling Book, The Maven Marketer Here:
https://a.co/d/1clpm8a

Do you have a marketing problem you'd like us to help solve? Send it to MavenMonday@FrankandMaven.com!

Get a copy of our Best-Selling Book, The Maven Marketer Here:
https://a.co/d/1clpm8a

Brandon Welch:

Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast. Today is Maven Monday. I'm your host, Brandon Welch, and I'm here with Caleb, give us your back-to-school advice, Agee.

Caleb Agee:

Oh, my back-to-school advice Pack a good lunch.

Brandon Welch:

Pack a good lunch.

Caleb Agee:

Yeah, I always bring my lunch, that's what dreams are made of.

Brandon Welch:

That's right, we are fully back in school mode. Actually, we have nothing to do with it. Our wives are leading amazing things in our homes for the eight homeschoolers we have in our possession and if you are also back to school, your kids are back to school we say congratulations and with that let's get nerdy today.

Brandon Welch:

Actually, let's de-nerd, de Always say congratulations and with that let's get nerdy. Today, actually, let's de-nerd, de-nerd, de-nerdify. Do you like that transition, de-nerd? So if you are in any form of conversation about digital advertising, you are going to hear some stuff that is just often going to go in one ear and out the other lot of well-meaning nerds who are either trying to sell you something or get excited about something, and they're going to throw out things like CPC and CPL and CTRs and CPM and all of those nerdy-sounding things around digital advertising and it's like you would love to care.

Brandon Welch:

I'm sure, yeah, but if you're like most business owners? In fact, a recent survey found that 68 of small business owners are overwhelmed by digital marketing terminology and half admit they don't understand how to evaluate their campaign performance yeah.

Caleb Agee:

And the danger is you sit across from this person and they're like, hey, we just got you a, and they start sounding exactly like the parents on Charlie.

Brandon Welch:

Brown.

Caleb Agee:

And then they lean back and smile as if you should be throwing a party.

Brandon Welch:

And you're like. Well, they're younger than me and they're smarter than me.

Caleb Agee:

Wow, that sounds good. They know how to do stuff, on things.

Brandon Welch:

And so you know it must be good so this will be your reference episode.

Caleb Agee:

We're going to try to keep it short and simple and clean and you can come back and say well, at least these terms I understand and I know how to ask the questions around them.

Brandon Welch:

Wise man said once son, don't tell me how the clock is built, just tell me the time. We're going to teach you how to tell the time on your ad performance. And here it goes. There's five metrics. We're going to cover impressions, what that means, uh, click through rates, cost per click, conversion rate and, ultimately, cost per lead. These are really the only ones you need to know and ask about, and often, too often, these are the ones that the the nerds actually don't want to tell you about, because they're the ones that may be, um, revealing some bad performance Could be moving in the wrong direction.

Caleb Agee:

So quick, number one what is an impression, caleb? An impression is really. Some eyeballs have seen your ads. A set of eyeballs, hopefully, unless it's a pirate.

Brandon Welch:

Maybe they've got like a patch on or something like that One person or two pirates have seen your ad for one impression and it just means your ad was seen. It was seen Practically on Google. That means it displayed if somebody searched it or on a webpage. The display ad showed up in the viewing window of the person.

Caleb Agee:

On Facebook it showed up in the news feed or the reel, Any social media, YouTube, all of those it means essentially it was seen, yeah, and so somebody's going.

Brandon Welch:

Well, how many impressions do I need In a month's time? There are a lot of people selling 10 or 50,000 impressions, or a very relatively small number of impressions. I'm going to say if you're in any local market and you want digital ads to make any sort of meaningful impression, you need a bare minimum of 200,000 in 30 days. So anything under that, especially if it's display related like Facebook or Google display related, it's just not really going to move any sort of needle of relevancy or recall if you're not at least in the couple hundred thousand territory.

Brandon Welch:

Yeah, but so don't get excited about, oh, 10,000 impressions.

Caleb Agee:

Yeah, don't get so excited. This is the number that's going to be the biggest number, because it's how far you went. It's all of that. And just because you had impressions doesn't mean they were impressed. Yeah, impressed with your ad. And the next one we're going to talk about is click-through rate, or it's sometimes called CTR. Yes, you'll hear this a lot.

Brandon Welch:

This is where you really know the value of that impression. Yes, so your ad showed up and it's like who cares? Well, the people that clicked on it cared, hopefully. Right, if we're talking about search, there are sort of some benchmarks about search. Yeah, there, there are sort of some benchmarks. Um, in google search ads we want to see at least a three percent click-through rate on the ad. That is, that's probably bare minimum. I would say our ads are more than five to eight percent because we're really obsessed over the copy we're writing. But in a in a broad, just definition, it's like how many people cared? What percentage of people cared enough to click on the ad?

Caleb Agee:

Yep, and so it's expressly, or the math, for it is impressions how many people saw it divided by how many people clicked on?

Brandon Welch:

it. Yes, selling lawnmowers, and I want to bid on the keyword lawnmowers and people search lawnmowers. That's going to be a higher percentage than people who are just randomly coming by a Facebook ad or see a display ad on a website. So let's call it five to 8% is good on search Like. If you're below that, I promise you you could be doing better. Something is often either you're bidding on the wrong keywords or the ad just was not as snazzy or appealing, or didn't have a clear offer or didn't have a clear promise in the text. Again, thinking on search engine pages, as maybe the ads around, it.

Caleb Agee:

I'm going to bet that if you get a Google Ads report from your data nerd and they show you click-through rates or CTRs that are lower than that, they're not just running search ads. They are probably running a performance max campaign or some sort of discovery Kill it.

Brandon Welch:

Kill it now, and you need to ask that question.

Caleb Agee:

What kind of campaigns are we running? Are these search only ads? And that will stop the madness as quickly as possible, because that means you're showing display ads and video ads and all these other things that you don't care to show.

Brandon Welch:

So, just for super clarity, click-through rates like, if you're on search, 5% to 8% look for that. Anything below that start asking questions On Facebook. If you're doing lead generation ads on Facebook and you give them a really good reason to click such as an offer or a coupon or a fill the form out you want to see at least a 1% link click-through rate. Do not let a Facebook nerd give you a total click-through rate. You want link click-throughs. Facebook will count the number of clicks and the times people clicked on the picture and it doesn't really matter. What you want is how many people actually clicked through on the offer, went to the next page, went to the next page. That's a 1% or better on Facebook. Anything below 1%, you could be writing better ad copy and then on display ads like we don't do a bunch of display ads just for the record. But if you are doing that and you're going, what is good? Because they've been talking to me about my click-through rates 0.2, 0.3, 0.2%, 0.2%, 0.2% yeah.

Brandon Welch:

Yes, not 0.02, but 0.2% on display ads. And you have to think people are trying to read their news and they're not trying to just go click on some random ad. Now, it doesn't mean that ad didn't have any value from a brand or recall standpoint. It just means that if it didn't get at least 0.2% 0.3% click-through rates, it's far below what the norm is and it means you should be getting a bigger fair share of clicks. So 5% to 8% on search engine, 1% link click through rate on meta like facebook, instagram, and then on display ads, 0.2 0.3 percent. Uh, anything below that. You could be doing better with your message and you it's a pretty good cue that the ad is just not relevant enough for the audience.

Brandon Welch:

Yeah, that was click through rate. Um, this is easy. This next one is cost per click. Uh, there are a lot of ways to measure the cost and sort of efficiency per campaign, but we wanted to throw this one in there because somebody could talk to you about well, you got 586 clicks or a 0.2% click-through rate and it's like okay, but what did they cost me? Let's just start with search, because that's where cost per click kind of varies the most by the way they'll say CPC a lot.

Brandon Welch:

Cpc is the abbreviation, so cost per click not to be confused with cost per conversion, correct? I hear a lot of people interchange clicks and conversion and that's just you don't want to do that.

Caleb Agee:

You got to be careful with CPC.

Brandon Welch:

Make sure you define the last C, the click just means they clicked on the ad and they got to your landing page. It does not mean they became a customer. It does not mean they became what we're going to call a conversion in a minute. It just means they clicked on the ad and so you want to see on search a really low cost per click, and it's driven by competition usually, but a really low cost per click is probably $2 to $5. And Google search and.

Brandon Welch:

Google search ads On our more competitive categories. Think home improvement, think attorneys, think commoditized services that have high value insurance, you could literally be in the $10 to $50 range for some attorney-driven stuff. I've seen it in the $50 to $100 range Easily In big markets.

Caleb Agee:

That's per click. So you ran an ad and to get that click you paid $50 or $5. It could be any end of that spectrum.

Brandon Welch:

Yes, so when you've got this, when you've got a high cost per click, it basically raises the stakes for everything else, because if the competition level just required a really high cost per click, you really have to do really good on this next metric, which is conversion rate. But a couple of other benchmarks on meta man, anything in the dollar range is solid on meta for a cost per click. And then on display ads, gosh, it should be pennies. Like, yeah, it should be pennies.

Caleb Agee:

Pennies because you should be getting a lot of display um impressions for the dollar you're spending and, for the record, cpc also used to be kind of a term that people used for google search ads as well or ppc pay-per-click and so, um, pay attention to that.

Caleb Agee:

Google ads you don't actually pay until they click. Yeah, um, a lot of other, most other ad platforms anymore are more impression based. So it's it's based on you know the people they show the ad to, but google and you know bing ads or whatever, are still caught, or ppc, and it's based on this. Cost per click is actually when you pay. Yes, that's when the money is getting charged to your name.

Brandon Welch:

Yes, and last thing I would say on that is just if you're feeling things are off, you're not getting the volume, you feel like you're spending a good couple grand a month at least on Meta or Search and you're going, I'm not feeling it. Ask, hey dude, what's my cost per click? And if he's like, oh, it's 50, you're like, oh well, that's why, because maximum you're not going to get that many clicks, yeah, um, you can just divide that by your budget.

Brandon Welch:

It's going to run out really fast yeah, if it was two grand, you'd get 40 clicks for that right. So, and yeah, and so we're going to go on to conversion rate. This is simply the rate at which that click converts into the action you want, and we're going to suggest that you, for sake of performance measurement, you have that either as a lead generation form. So somebody who you know wanted a price on a new roof. They clicked on your roofing ad and then they went to your site and filled out their information and said, please give me a price. Yeah.

Caleb Agee:

Schedule a consultation or yep.

Brandon Welch:

Or they called you.

Brandon Welch:

Like you can do some call tracking with either CallRail or the built-in call tracking on Google search ads and you just want to set some metrics like only measure the conversion if it happened, if the call lasted like 60 seconds or longer. Yeah, so when you're looking at that conversion rate, that's just simply saying, okay, you got 100 clicks and let's say you got a 5% conversion rate. Well, only five of them turned into either a form fill or a phone call that you could do anything about. Yeah, the other 95 went to your website and left. Yeah, right, so your conversion rate is really the ultimate leverage on everything. You can control CPC a little bit, based on what you decide to buy or not.

Caleb Agee:

But that's tough. That's based on a bidding war, basically Right.

Brandon Welch:

You can control CTR just by writing better ads, but none of that matters until they convert into like the person that raises their hand and says, hey, let's try to do some business. I'd like to do business with you.

Caleb Agee:

Yeah, and I think the thing on conversion rate I want you to pay attention to, just for your safety. Um, I've seen a lot of Google ad accounts specifically that are tracking conversions that are not truly conversions, even like page view as a conversion. Or um did maps to your business. Well, that may, if you're a retail destination, I might, I might count that, maybe I wouldn't. But okay, yeah, I mean I'm trying to maybe play devil's advocate here, but most of the time I don't call. I don't call that a chance at business. They just looked up directions to you and so just pay attention and say what are the conversions we're talking about? Make sure it is like a form, a call, or if you're like e-commerce, it would be like a purchase online.

Brandon Welch:

Um yep, so to improve in conversion rate. What's what makes the difference in a 5% conversion rate or 10% conversion rate? By the way, if you don't have at least a five.

Brandon Welch:

something sucks and you got to fix it. Any landing page, any homepage of a website, bare minimum 5%. If your nerd tells you your conversion rate is lower than 5%, you have problems with your website copy or the perceived value of your offer, and so you're either not making something clear enough, you're not showing enough proof that you're the one that can do it for them, so you don't have good enough pictures and or reviews, um, or you're putting too much friction on that form you didn't make it easy enough I was, or the form doesn't exist yeah, we, we

Brandon Welch:

kind of consult this week and it was like somebody that, well, we're not getting any forms on our website. And I looked at it. And it was like somebody that, well, we're not getting any forms on our website. And I looked at it and it was I'm not even kidding you 40 questions to fill out the dang form.

Caleb Agee:

I'm not doing that.

Brandon Welch:

By the way, make it like five questions or less. Make, make, don't just do name phone number email, but do name phone number phone number email and like what are you interested in? Yeah, A few qualifying questions. A Qualifying questions that tends to bring in the quality of the lead good enough and the trust that they're going to get value from you, while not slowing it down so much that like screw this.

Caleb Agee:

I'm just going to call you and it speeds up your conversation a little bit.

Brandon Welch:

Right, You're prepared so yeah, so we went all over the place there. If we're talking about a landing page or a like a homepage of a website, that is like where the ad clicked to 5% bare minimum.

Caleb Agee:

Guess what At.

Brandon Welch:

Frank and Maven. Most of ours are like 10%, 15%, 20%. If you've been doing tomorrow marketing for a long time, gosh, we have some that are in the 25% to 35% range. I can think of three right now that are easily in that. That's because people trust them so much. We dialed in that landing page. Think about that. If you have a 20% conversion rate versus a five, you did four times the lead volume with the same budget. That's right.

Caleb Agee:

Your budget did not change. Four times the lead.

Brandon Welch:

Just because we were getting good with the messaging. Go back and listen to some of the episodes. There's an episode called how to Increase your Lead Volume Without Spending a Penny. That's a really good one. Yes, we just talk about how to write really good, clear landing pages. It's actually common sense. It's the things you want when you're clicking on stuff. You just need to do it for your own company. By the way, on Facebook ads, on lead gen campaigns, they don't give you a flat conversion rate in Facebook, but you can divide your number of leads you got by the number of clicks you got or sorry, yes, number of leads by the number of clicks you got, or sorry, yes, number of leads by the number of clicks, and that would give you your percentage of conversion. That's right, and if it's a lead gen form, that puppy better be converting at at least 5%, but it should be 10 plus all day long.

Caleb Agee:

By the way, that's a form that keeps them in Instagram or Facebook, and they fill it out right on the next page.

Brandon Welch:

Yes, so back to you. You just need to ask your nerd dude what's my conversion rate and if he says anything under 5%, you're like I think I better get a Maven on this. Yep, I better submit a question to MavenMonday at frankenmavencom and say hey, why is my conversion rate so low? Tell me Brandon and Caleb yes, or even better, better.

Brandon Welch:

You know what they could do they can join the mastermind and yeah, that's where every other week you're getting live support from Caleb and I and the frankenmaven team and it's like bring all this stuff be like, hey, you were talking about these metrics, yeah, mine looking good, we would love to have you on the mastermind. Um, fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what it would cost to hire our team to consult you directly or to do the work for you. We're teaching you and you get to go do it and take it back to your ad people and it makes everything better. Actually, how did they get to the Maven Marketing Mastermind?

Caleb Agee:

MavenMethodTrainingcom.

Brandon Welch:

MavenMethodTraining. Sign up for that and start submitting your questions after you're on Last metric, caleb.

Caleb Agee:

Okay, here it comes. Last metric is cost per lead. Now I'm going to be careful here, because we abbreviate this. We can see CPL we already mentioned earlier. Some people call it cost per conversion and they could abbreviate that CPC. That gets confusing. I've also seen cost per acquisition CPA, not accountant.

Brandon Welch:

This metric, just really. It's really what all the others lead to. Yes, it's the end result. It's the lagging result.

Caleb Agee:

This is really, though, at the bottom line, at the bottom of the paper. You know you jump to the back and the bottom corner of the sheet to see your balance sheet on your P&L, and you know how you did. This is the one you want to know For your marketing metrics if you're doing any sort of today digital marketing. Cost per lead is the end all.

Brandon Welch:

It pretty well sets the tone, because all you got to do from there is set the appointment and close the sale. Yes, and so if you're dealing with a $500 cost per lead and you're only making $1,000 per sale, you better be batting at least a 50% or you're going to be in the hole big time.

Caleb Agee:

Yeah, and it's the quickest way to translate your marketing costs, your marketing efforts, to profitability so much quicker. And all these other metrics we talked about before. This will affect the CPL cost per lead. Yeah, we talked about before. This will affect the CPL cost per lead. Yeah, but you need to know what this cost per lead is so that you can do fast math to find out whether you're making money or not.

Brandon Welch:

Really divide your cost per lead by how often those leads set to an appointment, by how often you close those sales, and then you're going to get how much marketing cost you're going to have in that sale. Yeah, cost per lead is easy.

Caleb Agee:

It is essentially you take the cost divided by your total or total amount of leads.

Brandon Welch:

Yeah, so if, if you're, if you want to compare some benchmarks, if you're on Google and you're in any of the home service or professional services category, um, anything from, I would say, 75 to $250 is probably about average right now to $250 is probably about average right now. Google, google cost per leads have gone up a ton because look up the chain, um and Google cost per clicks have gone up. Just the inventory and conversion rates have probably stayed roughly the same if you haven't done anything but that cost per click, just because they paid more per click and then even if it converted at a 10% rate, that's just driving that cost per lead up. It's just. They're all ratios, third-grade math. So, gosh, anything above the $200, $250 range, I'm going like let's dig a little deeper.

Caleb Agee:

Well, it's going to be hard. Depending on your average customer value, it's going to be hard to make money at that point and your sales close rates and all of that. And so you need to know we're here to help you eliminate waste in advertising and grow your business. You can't grow a business unless you be making money, so we got to make sure that you're making money at the end of the day, and this, this number, will tell you pretty quickly whether you are or not.

Brandon Welch:

Yes. Now the beautiful thing about even a high cost per lead on Google is they tend to be ready to buy because people go to Google at the finish line.

Caleb Agee:

They're going.

Brandon Welch:

Hey, I'm ready to take the action. So those will have on average for us. If you're a service-based business, 60% to 70% appointment set rate, maybe even higher, but you can take 65% to the bank. And then how good are your salespeople? Yes, so $100 cost per lead divided by a 50% appointment set rate equals a $200 cost per appointment.

Caleb Agee:

And if your salesperson closes at 50% of the time, that's a $400 cost per acquisition. That's math. You got a pencil out in your head. When you're talking to your digital nerd, you're going to get them to bring you the cost per lead. They, most of the time, won't go into sales, and so you got to know how you're tuned they should. If they were a maven marketer, they would, they should, but they probably won't't. Especially if you're watching this episode and you're confused.

Brandon Welch:

They probably aren't you'd be like uh, hey, jack, we're not going to throw a pizza party over clicks and impressions.

Caleb Agee:

Yeah, let's talk about how much I actually sold with this dadgum advertising yeah, well, and that's that's the thing is almost the first three numbers we just talked about. A lot of marketers will hang their hats on these metrics, and you're going, ooh. They are levers that we have to pull to make this machine go, but they in and of themselves mean nothing as it relates to the outcome of your business. Your business does not grow because of CPCs.

Brandon Welch:

It does not grow because of impressions.

Caleb Agee:

It grows because you get conversions, you get leads and you get an opportunity to do business with somebody. If you don't get an at-bat, then you have no chance at making a sale.

Brandon Welch:

You might as well have saved the money and gone and knocked on doors or built some tomorrow marketing campaign with that dollar that makes you famous.

Brandon Welch:

Look at last week's episode on how to do that campaign with that dollar that makes you famous. Look at last week's episode on how to do that Last thing. So we talked about Google cost per leads. You know, 75 to 100, or, sorry, 75 to 250 is like an active range. Congratulations if it's under $100, honestly, yeah, it's tough. Now. The only clients we have that are consistently getting less than $100 cost per leads are the ones who are actively branding with tomorrow marketing campaigns.

Caleb Agee:

And have been for five plus years again.

Brandon Welch:

I'll point you to the episode last week. Go listen to those advertisers. Those guys are kicking the butts of their competitors. Yeah, their competitors are probably paying three to four times for a lead because they're not as likable or memorable. Um, that conversion rate when you have a really well brandedbranded campaign tends to go up by a lot, and that's how you get more profitable in digital advertising.

Caleb Agee:

I'm going to make a public service announcement real quick, because I think it's important. Google search volume is going down and will continue to go down as AI rolls out. That means this is remember we talked about it being a bidding war. It's all supply and demand. Well, the demand remains as high as it is, if not continuing to grow, while the supply goes down. That means they will have to charge more per click every single time to make the same money or more money as their shareholders would like, and so Google will get harder. It has already gotten harder.

Brandon Welch:

It makes our job frankly so much harder.

Caleb Agee:

Yes, it will get harder because there will be less searches in Google. That is a fact.

Brandon Welch:

Which will decrease supply, increase demand, and competition, which will increase price. That's all going to go up. Yep, let's talk about Facebook real quick. Cost per leads on Facebook are going to be way less because you're reaching way, way, way more people. Like for the dollar that you spend, you're probably reaching at least 10 times as many people on meta, on even a lead gen campaign on meta, as you are Google, yeah, so naturally you're reaching more people. More are going to respond. However, the quality of them is going to be noticeably and always less, because they were looking for pictures of their friends, kids and whatever their algorithm is feeding them.

Brandon Welch:

They were on Facebook for entertainment not because, ooh, let me go hire somebody Now. Facebook is really really, really smart. Meta is really really smart. It will find somebody who's in the zone of buying and it will say, hey, take the first step. That is good news. But you're going to get frustrated because, even though a good Facebook cost per lead is like, I would say, anything in the $20 to $100 range is reasonable. And you're going, wow, this is like way cheaper than my search engine ads, but fewer of them are going to pick up the phone. You're going to get bogus contact information. Just expect it.

Brandon Welch:

It's going to happen. As long as you are setting one out of six of them to an appointment, you're on benchmark as far as our numbers. Yeah, the millions of dollars we've spent on facebook in recent times um, one out of six of them should, should be an appointment. If it's less than that, you probably have something wrong with either the language or the clarity of your offer, um and but if you're at that one one out of six rate, which is like what? 18?

Caleb Agee:

ish percent.

Brandon Welch:

Um, uh, you still ought to be able to make money. Now the other five out of six rate which is like what? 18-ish percent? You still ought to be able to make money. Now the other five out of six. Three of them will be totally bogus. The other two just won't answer your calls and they'll make you mad. But guess what, guess what? Six months from now they're a qualified prospect. You just reach them sooner, so stay on them.

Caleb Agee:

Put kind of your yesterday slash tomorrow marketing system and work through those leads and be be a part of their lives.

Brandon Welch:

Start adding value Email, call and text them no less than 30 times before you even start to give up on it.

Caleb Agee:

They took 12 seconds to raise their hand and say I'd like to get a price on that, yes, or I'd like to maybe schedule with you, and you are doing them a disservice if you don't follow up with them until they tell you to stop. Yes, they've asked for your help, so help them, yes.

Brandon Welch:

All right, and we'll leave you some age old with some age old wisdom. Figures lie and liars figure. What we want you to be able to do is be the one who's figuring this data for your own comfort and your own strategy. So, uh, have a have a decent idea of how many impressions you're getting. If you're not getting a couple hundred thousand in a month's time, you're probably just not going to get all that much from it. Know that you're getting a solid click-through rate, which means your ads are written well and they're enticing enough. That's 1% click-through rate. On meta ads, that's 5, five to 10%. On search engine Um, definitely know what the cost per click is.

Brandon Welch:

So you just know how strong the competition is and what you're setting yourself up for it to cost you. Uh, in service industries, you know 10 to $20 is probably pretty average. Uh, anything more than that. You know you've got big competition, that's right. And on Facebook, you know a couple dollars a click is probably about as much as you want to pay, yep, and then make sure your conversion rate is at least 5%. Anything below 5%, you've got work to do on your landing page or your offer. And then, ultimately, is the cost per lead that you're getting is that trending you towards profitability because of your, your historical appointment set rate and your close rate? You know those things.

Brandon Welch:

It doesn't matter what sort of hogwash Danny Fancy Pants is coming in with the digital advertising weasels. You can bop them on the head and say cool, I just did my own calculations and I think it's profitable or I think it's not. But we're not going to throw a pizza party until I'm making money. That's right, cool. Join the Maven Marketing Mastermind at mavenmethodtrainingcom. We can't wait to see you in there. We're having a blast. Send your questions to mavenmonday at frankenmavencom and we will be back here every week answering your real-life marketing questions, because marketers who can't teach you why are just a fancy lie. Have a great week, thank you.