Balance & Beyond
Balance and Beyond is the podcast for ambitious women refusing to accept burnout as the price of success. Here, we’re committed to empowering you with the tools and strategies you need to achieve true balance, where your career, relationships and health all thrive and where you have the power to define success on your own terms.
Balance & Beyond
The Motherhood Penalty: Why Mums Are More Likely to Burnout and How to Avoid It
Coach Jaclyn joins us to explore a profound question: How can working mothers find true balance without falling into the burnout trap? This episode tackles the societal pressures that demand women to excel in dual roles—professionally and as mothers—without missing a beat. We unravel the pervasive narrative of working as if you’re not a parent, and parenting like you don’t work. This expectation leads to a split identity, contributing to feelings of overwhelm and exhaustion. Together, we shine a light on the cultural forces that fuel perfectionism and a relentless mental load. By understanding these dynamics, women can begin to build emotional resilience, process emotions effectively, and prioritise self-care, guiding them toward a more fulfilling life.
Our conversation moves toward the development of self-leadership and the necessity of flexible self-care, especially in the absence of traditional communal support. Many women experience the challenge of finding their voice, seeking validation, and setting boundaries—often leading to disconnection and burnout. Jaclyn shares insights into how cultivating self-trust and asserting personal needs can lead to empowerment and community transformation. We aim to inspire women to break free from cultural norms by embracing a balanced and self-caring lifestyle. It's time to redefine success and well-being on your own terms, creating a ripple effect that not only strengthens individual women but also empowers entire communities.
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Welcome to Balance and Beyond, the podcast for ambitious women who refuse to accept burnout as the price of success. Here we're committed to empowering you with the tools and strategies you need to achieve true balance, where your career, relationships and health all thrive and where you have the power to define success on your terms. I honor the space you've created for yourself today. So let's take a breath and dive right in.
Jaclyn:Hi, happy to be here!
Jo:Great topic, yeah! One that's very close to our heart. With my 14 and 11 year old, and your two and a half year old, you still count halves.
Jaclyn:Yeah, almost two and a half, that's right!
Jo:Almost two and a half years old! And really understanding: What are some of the, I guess you would say, warning signs, or drivers, of burnout that happen when you add parenthood - or motherhood - onto everything else that we're juggling?
Jo:One of the largest cohorts we see coming to us is often women off the back of parental leave. It becomes an interesting piece and we'll talk about that. But there is just something unique that happens when you add children into life, especially when you're working. It's a whole different dynamic.
Jo:So , it's really important that we shed light on what is happening and, most importantly, how you can ensure that you have the balance and the fulfillment in life that we seek. That you seek, I should say. So, Jaclyn, mums couple of key trends we really want to call out today And and one is the, you could say, cultural Because of being a mother. What do you see? What would be, say, one of the biggest cultural elements that impact how we act, or how we behave as a mother? And how can this fuel and lead to burnout?
Jo:,. I should say. So, Jaclyn, mums couple of key trends we really want to call out today. And and one is the, you could say, ? Because of being a mother. What do you see would be. And, one of the "oh cultural elements that impact how we act, or how we behave as a mother! And how this can also fuel and lead
Jaclyn:So, burnout? .. while we are back at work, e Yeah, I think it's really common for moms to face this impossible expectation of being everything to everyone, and that really is amplified in motherhood, right, because you're responsible for this human being, which is a lot, and so I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to"I be everything and perfect, do everything for this human being. And." well, that's just impossible, right? So it just really gets that internal perfectionist agitated and doubling down, and then, when we go back into the workforce, we've got this flare up of perfectionism and and and and but, while we have this constant inadequacy or feeling like we're not. Like that's the ugly part of perfectionism, right? It's like this I gotta be perfect because I never feel like I'm enough.
Jaclyn:I think that's where that's where we, you know, we talk about this in our work with our clients. "is that where that perfectionism comes from?" This place of: "am I enough? Am I enough? Am I enough?" I don't feel like I'm enough. "I'm never enough, And it's really painful, and it's really exhausting and society perpetuates this. It's almost like lauded. Like "The mum who can do everything." And when we say, you know, "You can do it all!" That's not what we're saying, right? We're saying that, "You don't have to choose between being a mum a professional." That you can have balance. But society says, "Yeah, you can do all those things!" But then, "You've gotta be the best at all those things!" And that's where I think we're teaching a different narrative: That you get to do all the things that are really important and meaningful to you, but you don't have to be stuck in the perfectionist,
Jaclyn:and... it's really exhausting and society perpetuates this. It's almost like lauded, like the mom who can do everything, and when we say, you know, you can do it all, that's not what we're saying, right? We're saying that you, you don't have to choose between being a mom and a professional that you can have balance. But society says, yeah, you can, you can do all those things, but then you got to be the best at all those things. And that's where I think that we're we're teaching a different narrative, that you get to do all the things that are really important and meaningful to you, but you don't have to be stuck in this perfectionistic proving narrative.
Jo:Yeah, and it's that narrative that you have to parent like you don't work and work like you're not a parent, and that's continually denying one half of ourselves, and this is why so many women feel split in two, and this conditioning can run really, really deep, can't it? In terms of we have to be perfect. Our worth is only based on how much we can do, and, of course, when you add one or multiple humans into the mix, there's a lot more to do, there's a lot more washing, there's a lot more logistics, there's a lot more life, admin, and so that can really drown us really, really fast.
Jaclyn:Oh my gosh, absolutely. The busyness of our lives, kids, anxiety, like the never ending to-do list, and never ending laundry, and all of that never endingness, again paired with that perfectionism, is just a ripe combination for for burnout, for overwhelm, um, because not only are you always failing, but then you never really get the satisfaction of completing anything. Cause it, those lists never end, like that's the nature of motherhood, like it never ends, the laundry never ends, the to-do list never ends, um, yeah, so like all these ingredients really create really, um, perfect ground, I guess I should say for burnout and overwhelm, yeah.
Jo:That good old mental load that we've heard so much about is all pervasive. As you said, these things are in cycles and they never end, so you can never get on top of the washing. And we the perfectionist in us wants to get to some convoluted place where all the washing's done and put away and the fridge is full, the meals are prepped, the kitchen bench is clean, everybody is fed, everyone's relaxed, and then maybe I'll do something for myself. Like it's nuts, isn't it? And so much of this is that cultural and societal conditioning that we don't realize is driving so much of our behavior, because it feels so real to us.
Jaclyn:Yeah, it makes me nauseous. Really, it's such a losing game, yeah. So I'm glad that we're doing something about that and shaking up that almost just so widely accepted. It just feels like it's the only reality that's possible and I love that the work we do. Joe is saying but that's stupid, let's not do that, because we're just getting sick over here and burning out like quite literally sick right. A lot of the women who come to us are experiencing burnout symptoms mentally, but also physiologically. So it's important that we're having those conversations.
Jo:Absolutely, absolutely. The other piece that I think is really important to bring to this conversation when we are so stretched and there is a massive list and there are people who literally life or death depends on us, showing up is something that we're not very good at and we've never been taught how to do. It's something that is very pinkwashed. It is not considered a skill, it's considered an indulgence. Yes, what am I talking about, jacqueline, and what is so important? That we actually build the muscle in, which is one of your favorite things to talk about.
Jaclyn:It is. It really is, because it's the antidote to all this craziness, all this, you know, illness creating. That we're doing is taking care of our wellbeing, and so I like to talk about self-care. You know we've mentioned in other episodes, but it's certainly applicable here the four different aspects of our self-care, and each of those areas is is developing a skill? So self-care isn't an indulgence, it's not like. Is developing a skill? So self-care isn't an indulgence, it's not like I don't know something frivolous that you get to when everything else is done. It's, it's like the first thing, really. It's taking care of your wellbeing.
Jaclyn:Cause what's the point of trying to dot all those I's and cross all the T's and be perfect and do the never ending to do list, which, again, is impossible If we're just sick, like what? Why? What are we living for? Like, but that's such a bizarre way to live. So I'm yes, I'm just so passionate about taking care of yourself first, so that in those four areas so I'll come back to that, the four areas like your mental health, right? So we're talking about the my, your mindset, your internal monologue. How do you talk to yourself? Are you mean to yourself? Most perfectionists are like we're really really mean to ourselves.
Jo:Pretty mean, really actually quite brutal, I would say. Not even mean like so many women are brutal to themselves. The criticism, the comparison,
Jaclyn:Oh my gosh, it's yeah, it's like killer. It kills you. Yeah, like constantly belittling yourself and questioning your self-worth and constantly looking at what you're where you're falling short and what could be what you're doing wrong, like um. So, yeah, like, our mental health and wellness is so important. Uh, following close on the heels of that is our emotional health, which is connected but separate. Mental health is more about, like our thoughts and our internal narratives and how we talk to ourselves and what we think and the beliefs we hold. And then the emotions. Again, closely related is our ability to be with grief, anger and actually feel the emotions without getting stuck in in the drama triangle. I think most people relate to emotions from the drama triangle. We talk about being either a victim, being either a blamer, someone who blames others, or being a martyr or rescuer. Like we complain we're good at complaining, women that's the only way really good at complaining.
Jaclyn:It's the only like accepted way to have our feelings right. We just, you know, we bitch about things with our friends or coworkers or whatever, and and I get that, and like there's a time and place. But my, what I'm trying to say is that if we can go several steps further than that and actually feel our real feelings underneath all the griping and the whinging and the complaining, um, there's a lot of pain and so that's probably why we don't go there, but that's why it's a skill. Yeah, it hurts, right, like the mental rewiring of the beliefs, going to your emotions and feeling those painful emotions in a healthy way. It's, those are skills.
Jo:So those are just two of the four and their skills just to stack that. We, we are never taught how to do. So many women have got really good at suppressing their feelings because I ain't got time for this, or they're so full and so blocked that they're terrified that if they lose it they'll be in a puddle for days because there's so much of whatever is inside them that it's terrifying. And when we first start saying to women, you're going to start defrosting like what no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't have time to fall apart. Have you seen my list? Have you seen my to-do list? A big part of what has to happen and, as you said, really, really important. Jacqueline said it before, I'm going to say it again this is a skill that very few people are taught. Most people can't even name their emotions, let alone process them or feel them.
Jaclyn:Yeah, and it working with your emotions, then helps rewire those beliefs that keep you feeling limited and small. And it's like this. It's beautiful once you start doing that work, which is why we do so much of that and with our clients. Right, it's doing heavy. You know emotional and mental work um to really free people up and liberate all this energy that's been stuck in contract. You know contorting ourselves to to be these perfect moms who can do everything and be everything but never attend to ourselves.
Jo:It's just crazy, yeah. So what are the other two? What are the other two muscles or skills that we need to learn? Just to recap, if you haven't listened to previous episodes on their self-care
Jaclyn:So the next one is our physical fitness, which is probably the one that people know about the most right. Everyone knows exercise and the good endorphins that come from that good nutrition, but we can still put that on the back burner, forget to eat, forget to drink water, forget, you know, don't not? We don't have time to move, or we think the only way we can do it is perfectly. So we only move when we have the 40 minutes to do the whole class or the whole whatever. To do the whole class or the whole whatever, um, yeah, so learning how to do like micro doses of of these things we already know to do, giving ourselves permission to do those micro doses, I think something big that we support clients around.
Jo:Um, yeah. And then, lastly, is one that most women say they don't have time for, and is something that, again, is put in the indulgence category but is, ironically, something that most women are craving more than anything else oh yeah, oh yeah, um, just good, old-fashioned fun.
Jaclyn:I know.
Jo:The different f-word.
Jaclyn:For sure it's a dangerous word. Fun, pleasure, nourishment, like the things that bring you joy, like when's the last time? Those like hobbies that can go on the back burner, like the last time you went out dancing or the last time that you, um went to a canvas and threw some paint on it. Like your creativity really is it comes down to. Often our creative hobbies are. It's our connection to our aliveness, our expression as women, um, and so many of our clients. It's such a joy to see them, like, pull out their tap shoes.
Jo:True story just happened right.
Jaclyn:We have clients who do that it's true story, yeah and clients who decided to actually go back to their passion of art and actually leave a job and to pursue what has them feeling most alive. So not that everyone has to do it to that extent, but it's just giving yourself permission to put it on the calendar and say there's actually a time that I get to go dancing and like, just like feel good in my body, feel actually a time that I get to go dancing and like, just like feel good in my body feel, and I think what can really stop us particularly when there's kids involved obviously this can differ depending on the age of the kids is that we have this belief that, to your point, it has to be 45 minutes.
Jo:It has to do this. But how do you not? If you have kids, they are your best guide for fun, oh yeah, they are your best guide for processing their emotions, because they don't learn how to suppress them until they're about six or seven. They don't have a filter, so you know exactly what's going on in their head. So, while everyone's like you mean, you want me to be a toddler again Sometimes? Yeah Right, they move, they understand what their body needs. When they're hungry, they get grumpy and they need food. So it's just so fascinating how kids actually have we're born with all of these, but then they get beaten out of us and so we have to, as adults, go on this journey of rediscovering our inner toddler, who sometimes, you know, your banana breaks in half and you really wanted that banana and you'd love to throw your arms around and cry because you really wanted a banana that wasn't broken.
Jaclyn:Totally. Yeah, they feel it. Yep, I love how. Yeah, just thinking about how there aren't usually two-year-olds running around with depression or anxiety or burnout. I mean, you know, there's always things that we can contend with with the littles, but they don't have chronic issues, right, because they're not building up all this contraction or contortion in their body yet, right? Society hasn't gotten a clause into them yet.
Jo:And they're, on the whole, most kids are pretty happy, you know they. They live pretty simple lives. They sleep pretty well, they, you know. So there's something to be said for reigniting that side of us and bringing that back. So if we I guess the other thing I was going to say around self-care is we can use the kids as an excuse for many women, being labeled selfish particularly moms is often a weapon that is thrown at us.
Jo:You never want to be selfish, but if you can find ways to do this, either with your kids or you can swap with a friend, I'll take your kids on this day, you take mine. How do you get creative at ways to fit this in, whether it is those micro doses, whether it's the kids are in the bath, if they're little, okay, we'll go, take five minutes and go and journal. If that's something that you need to do for your mental health, it doesn't always have to be the four hour half day thing. I need a sitter. Well, I don't have any care, I don't want to pay for a sitter. Yeah, there are ways around this that fit this snack size care when you know how to do it well in, regardless of your, I guess, physical circumstances or just logistical circumstances.
Jaclyn:Yep, totally, and I'm glad you brought up that idea of trading with friends too, because we don't have to get into this really too deeply.
Jaclyn:But the part of the problem I think with modern day parenthood is this loss of tribe or loss of community like communal child rearing so takes a village and we've lost the village we've lost the village, and so then it falls on mom and dad, as two people only, to carry the load, and then there's still, like the traditional expectations, that is usually imbalanced around carrying the mental load, and so that's a whole other conversation. There's all these other, you know, off-shooting conversations that we could save for another time, but I'm glad you brought it up because that's that's another thing that contributes to the burnout, for women is not having really enough support, whether it's figuring out how to balance the mental load at home with your spouse, or having the resources communal, communally, um, so you don't have to like, carry the world on your shoulders really yeah.
Jo:Yeah, and I guess that brings us to a last piece that we see can really exacerbate burnout, and these is probably a topic for a whole other episode in future. But, jacqueline, a common thread of what stops women doing things like taking care of their mental health or taking care is that they haven't yet developed their own voice, their own sense, connection to self to actually ask for what they want. So they're not in that sort of self leadership space. They're looking for permission. You know they're outsourcing their boundaries to someone else. Let's talk a little bit about how do we learn to communicate and develop that really strong connection to self so that we can overcome all of these and not burn out overcome all of these and not burn out.
Jaclyn:Well, yeah, we call it listening to your inner voice or internal authority, different self-trust, and honestly, all of the self-care that we just talked about develops that, because in all of those aspects of self-care you're putting a lot of attention on your wellbeing. So it's permission to prioritize yourself. And as we prioritize ourselves and we get lighter, emotionally right, and our nervous system starts to feel more grounded doing this self-care work I was just talking about, and our inner monologue starts to be friendlier and our bodies are starting to feel stronger and more nourished and we're having more fun and feeling more alive. All those four components of self-care cultivates more trust in ourselves, right? We? We unconsciously break trust with ourselves because we don't take, we abandon ourselves essentially with lack of self-care. It's self-abandonment, that's what it is. I'll just say it.
Jo:And it's abandonment in terms of those ruthless expectations we hold of ourselves, the way we beat ourselves up, the way we feel torn, the way we're failing at everything. So all of that just makes us completely disconnected. And if you've ever had that feeling of being empty, or feeling alone despite never being alone, there's some signs that you're disconnected from who you really are. Maybe you don't know what you want, you don't know what you like, you don't know what fun is.
Jaclyn:Again, some warning signs that maybe this applies to you, yeah, and this can be sobering and maybe a little heavy. So, you know, be graceful with yourself, because we're that's the modern day conundrum we're in is that we have these binds and limitations of society and then we're expected to still operate like superhumans, and it just doesn't, it doesn't add up, the math doesn't make sense, and so so losing ourselves and experiencing burnout and overwhelmed is a logical conclusion. It's, it's, it's an epidemic, right Like?
Jaclyn:every woman really has experienced it usually at some point or another. For our work, we focus on the individual, because that's where you can get your personal power back. We focus on how you can get your self-trust back, your connection to yourself, your aliveness, your wellness back, and then and then maybe we'll turn our eyes to punching some holes into some cultural issues. Jo, but those are pretty big right.
Jo:We occasionally try, here and there, but but, as you said, my view is that I would rather empower, you know, thousands of women individually to have a huge ripple effect in their families, in their communities, in their workplaces and then through women who are strong enough to speak up, to hold boundaries, to be walking. You know, living, walking, talking, examples of a new way to live. Then we start to see, you know, they say that you can't be what you can't see. Well, we need more and more women who are living this life, who are taking care of themselves, who are sharing it beyond bubble baths, who are prioritizing themselves. And in my mind, that is the way that we start to break down the cultural piece. We have to do it one woman at a time, and we make each woman stronger.
Jo:That's not to say that we're broken, that's not to say that we've done anything wrong, but the world we live in requires different skills that very, very few of us have been taught, and motherhood just adds that layer of complexity.
Jo:It's a new range of conditioning and it really becomes more and more important only because, you know, the kids can take time.
Jo:So usually we see people become mothers and their self-care plummets because now all the cultural conditioning kicks in, even if they used to take really good care of themselves pre-kids and they were, you know, athletes, or they, you know, did pilates, or then the kids comes like whoa, no, no, I'm now down the bottom of the list, because that's what it takes to be a good mother. So this is why this is such an important conversation to be had, jacqueline. So if you are a mom, if you are a stepmom, if you're an auntie, if you, you know you're in the community, then this is key. We really want you to understand that you can overcome these cultural issues. You have a tribe who are willing to help if you can find a way to ask for it. We need you to develop your muscles in self-care, making sure that you're able to take care of yourself, and then finally, with all of this, let's cultivate that innocence of self-trust and get you reconnected back to who you are, jacqueline.
Jaclyn:Any final words for our listeners today. No, I mean, just that's what we do. We support you to develop those skills and we also give you the community to. There's so much momentum and community that's highly, highly underestimated and I spoke to that briefly at like we're missing tribe, but we have an amazing tribe here, um. So I think developing those skills as individuals amongst amidst community is is crucial and such a powerful vitamin. So so, for those listening, we welcome you.
Jo:Thanks, jax. I'm lovely to have you an important conversation and we'll see you again on Balance and Beyond.
Jaclyn:Thanks Jo.
Jo:Thanks for joining us today on the Balance and Beyond podcast. We're so glad you carved out this time for yourself. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend who might need to hear this today and, if you're feeling extra generous, leaving us a review on your podcast platform of choice would mean the world to us. If you're keen to dive deeper into our world, visit balanceinstitutecom to discover more about the toolkit that has helped thousands of women avoid burnout and create a life of balance and beyond. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time on the Balance and Beyond podcast.
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