Balance & Beyond
Balance and Beyond is the podcast for ambitious women refusing to accept burnout as the price of success. Here, we’re committed to empowering you with the tools and strategies you need to achieve true balance, where your career, relationships and health all thrive and where you have the power to define success on your own terms.
Balance & Beyond
The Growth Loop: Why Brilliant Women Keep Reaching for ‘One More Credential
Are you trapped in an endless cycle of learning without implementation? For ambitious women, personal development can become a sophisticated form of self-sabotage when we prioritize knowledge acquisition over taking action.
In this revealing conversation, we explore the surprising ways high-achieving women hide behind qualifications instead of putting their wisdom into practice. We trace this pattern back to educational systems that reward perfection and comprehensive preparation—qualities that eventually become barriers to professional advancement. While women have made tremendous strides in education over the past century, many find themselves paralyzed by decision-making and terrified of imperfection in professional settings.
The wisdom shared goes beyond simple advice, offering a crucial distinction between information gathering and true wisdom. As we discuss, knowledge without action is just information—wisdom emerges when you combine learning with lived experience and your unique perspective. This distinction becomes even more crucial in the age of AI, where your implementation skills and human judgment offer your true competitive advantage.
We challenge listeners to embrace "messy first drafts" and to shrink the time between learning something and implementing it. The workplace doesn't demand perfection; it rewards speed of implementation and the confidence to make your work visible. For those who recognize themselves in this pattern, we offer practical strategies to break free, including our burnout archetype quiz to identify if you're a "Self-Help Scholar."
Ready to stop hiding behind more learning and start implementing what you already know? Take one piece of wisdom from this episode and put it into action within 24 hours. Your future self will thank you for valuing progress over perfection.
To view the Transcript from this week's episode, visit our Balance & Beyond Podcast webpage: https://www.balanceinstitute.com/podcast/2025/99
To discover your Burnout Archetype, take our short quiz here! https://www.balanceinstitute.com/burnout-quiz
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Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on the Balance & Beyond Podcast!
Welcome to Balance and Beyond, the podcast for ambitious women who refuse to accept burnout as the price of success. Here we're committed to empowering you with the tools and strategies you need to achieve true balance, where your career, relationships and health all thrive and where you have the power to define success on your terms. I honor the space you've created for yourself today, so let's take a breath and dive right in. If you've ever Googled, am I burnt out at 3 am but felt like none of the answers, really fit.
Jo:This is for you, because personal growth, professional development for high-ach achieving women can actually become the most sophisticated form of self-sabotage. Today I'm joined by the wonderful Sabina, and Sabina juicy topic, isn't it?
Sabina:Oh, isn't it just? I know this pattern very well, both within myself, my own journey, and with so many of the clients that I get to work with. It's yeah, it's fascinating.
Jo:And so let's really name this pattern. What is the pattern that we see when people are spending a lot of investing a lot of time, energy and money in continual learning?
Sabina:Yes, Well, I would like to zoom out and put this into context of women in education over the last 100 years.
Sabina:If you think back to, say, 100 years ago, I'm talking about industrialised, you know Western society we didn't really have access to the same opportunities as men in terms of education, in terms of having your own bank account. But when we're talking about education and self-help, we've made so much progress, and I think I've read somewhere that over I think it's over 60% of postgrad master's degrees are now taken by women, and I think women are actually overtaking men in undergrads as well. This is in the Western world, so it's phenomenal that women are now having these opportunities and seizing it by the reins. However, what we're talking about in the context here in this episode, is that where does it become a hindrance, where does it become a self-sabotage mechanism to stop you from actually achieving what it is that you want to do, by perhaps hiding behind another qualification or thinking that you have to get another certification or some more letters after your name? And it's this fine balance, isn't it? Yeah?
Jo:Yeah, absolutely. If I had a dollar for every woman that said if I just had an MBA, then I'll be more confident. And we know that it's not the MBA that actually gives you the confidence. It's the person or the identity that you now believe you have and the worth you now believe you have because of some letters after your name. So I think what's, I guess, an important caveat here is that we're not saying that education is bad. As you said, education has been a really important part of that. Pretty much all of our team. We are constantly looking to educate ourselves and grow. And what can we learn? We've got this insatiable curiosity. However, what we see is that women hide behind more qualifications, more doing, and what they're missing is the actual implementation of whatever they've learned, because that's a whole different skill set, isn't it, Sabina? It's not just the learning. We can learn things, we can absorb them, but putting them into practice can actually be harder. That's right.
Sabina:So there's a difference between information gathering, stockpiling and consuming information and credentials and actually putting them into action, because it's not the qualification or the certificate that matters, it's what does that allow me to do.
Sabina:Matters, it's what does that allow me to do. And the reality is nowadays we are moving at such a fast pace that you might spend three years studying something and then in another two years it's been superseded by something else. Again, I'm not saying we should not be studying, but if we're hanging our hat and our worth and our value and our contribution on our scholarly achievements or leaning so heavily on them, you're sort of missing a trick. It's knowledge without action is really just information, information, and so the key is you want to act on the information that you are learning, but you also want to combine it with your own life experience, and that's what's wisdom. And people can tell when you are showing up and sharing your expertise from a place of sharing your expertise, from a place of academic, conceptual, a conceptual place, or where, when it's actually embodied lived experience. And I think that that's a trick that women are sometimes missing though, those women who let's call them a self-help, self-help junkie or a qualification junkie.
Jo:Yeah, I still remember a very defining moment in my university. I was doing my master's and I was in a marketing master's of marketing and the teacher, who had only ever been an academic, was telling us how to run a campaign and I had been working. And I said to him no, no, no, no, no, that's not how it works. And he said yes, it is. And I said I'm working in a big global insurance company. I would never get any of this past risk and that's not actually going to work. And he couldn't actually answer the question because he was talking from a. Here's the theory and I had a. I've tried to put that theory, get the theory, got it. I've put it in a real life application and it actually doesn't work in theory. You have to do this to it and you have to do that and you have to do that.
Jo:And I ended up because I was the only one in the class who had a proper job, you would say, in the field that we were doing the masters in. I ended up taking over the class and teaching everybody about yep, here are the concepts, great concepts. Here is my experience of how that translates in real life. And then it turns out. There was one other person who we became good friends. She was also working in a different sector and she said yeah, yep, that's how it works in Joe, this is how it works in mine. So, to your point, this is where we can take the knowledge. But when we only keep thinking that the answer is more knowledge, more knowledge, more knowledge, learn more, learn more, and don't actually take the time to put them in and get that beautiful sense of wisdom, we are completely missing a competitive advantage.
Sabina:That's exactly right, and I sometimes call this designing at the whiteboard. So you've got to learn, you've got to do your due diligence right, but when you are perhaps getting stuck in this continual loop of over-preparing and theorizing and imagining outcomes A, b, c, d et cetera, hypothesizing it's called designing at the whiteboard. What is really needed is to take that knowledge and data and learning and start implementing and getting these feedback loops. So quicker and quicker feedback loops are needed to be able to make progress. And we're talking about you know. Are you someone that feels like you're just busy, busy, busy spinning your wheels but never actually getting seen or making progress? Well, this is one of the clues. Are you taking what you know and implementing it, and even making mistakes? But the point is you're still learning by implementing.
Jo:We often see perfectionism come into play here, don't we when it's? I've learned it, but until I know how to do it perfectly, I'm not going to actually put it in place. So we have these crazy high expectations of ourselves of how it has to be. We won't tolerate failure because we're afraid of that. So we believe, and we see this happen in corporate all the time. Well, let me just get more information. More information will help me make the decision. More information will reduce my chance of failure. But when the good old 80-20 rule applies, probably 20% of the information or knowledge or growth that you need is you know. That's what's going to come very, very quickly. So it's all about how do I just get what's the most information? And if I actually go and implement that, that's going to drive real change. Cause I know many people personally who say they want to change. They tell everyone they want to change. They're the most knowledgeable about everything and they are still the same as where they were.
Sabina:They just can't do it, and this is not to shame anyone, but again I want to pull, zoom out and look at well, what are we taught in education? Let's look at how girls learn in education, and we know that boys generally I'm stereotyping a little bit but they learn differently. They have different learning styles. Each individual has a different learning style. But how are we rewarded within the education system? You've got an A, you've got a gold star. You know how many people do we know in our world that say they just want a pass mark, but actually they're secretly looking for a high distinction, or you know, I've been guilty of that as well. Right, but we are taught within the education system.
Sabina:Reward and merit comes from getting the highest perfect grade possible. You suddenly then come out of the system and go into the workplace and into the wider world and what we've been conditioned to see as success, the best grade possible or perfection suddenly it doesn't translate, or it gets you to a certain point in your career, and then it's, then it's actually not helping. And then you're trying even harder to be perfect, still not getting the results. And then you're like I don't, I don't know what to do anymore. And it's not your fault. We've been conditioned to be good girls and to you know, appease or get the recognition, shall we say, of our teachers or lecturers. We're always looking for that validation, and what we actually need to be doing in the workforce and in life is be learning how to challenge and influence. So take what you need to, but learn to execute, challenge and influence.
Jo:And that can be uncomfortable for people. Right, it's easier to stay in the learning loop that confront I might make a mistake or I'm going to have to confront someone I'm going to have to step into conflict. I have to make a decision and back myself, even without all the information, knowing that it's probably not perfect, and that is really hard for us. We've often not been conditioned to sit in that place. It feels very foreign to most women. We start pushing them to do it inside our programs, Like what? You want me to pick one? Which one should I pick? Just damn well, pick one. But what if I picked the wrong one? Just pick one.
Jo:And they literally can't pick one from six. They're paralyzed with indecision because what if I get it wrong? And what if I regret my choice? And like, wow, okay, this is the pattern that we see. You can't just pick one in any area of life. Right, We've literally had this situation. I give you six options, pick one. Oh, can you tell me more about each one? No, just pick one. So this is this pattern, again and again.
Sabina:Yeah, absolutely. And this, I think, also ties into something else which is really relevant to women this idea of being visible or not bragging too much. So again, at school, it's get your head down, be a good girl, get the good marks, get a pat on the back and then move on to the next thing. Girl, get the good marks, get a pat on the back and then move on to the next thing. And one thing that we like saying don't we is get a messy first draft in. It's good enough. You know, done is better than perfect.
Sabina:And so, again, when you're translating this into real life, beyond the world of academia, is do good work and make it visible. That's what's required. That's the step change. Not do good work and keep tinkering with it in the background until you can't possibly finesse anything else and then launch it or show it to your manager or your team. Launch it or show it to your manager or your team. No, do good enough. I can hear people cringing. What are you talking about, sabina? I can't do that. And and you know that within reasons certain certain professions. You know lawyers, accountants. I know you're going to be going well, you don't know what you're talking about, but, generally speaking, what if you flipped it to do good work and make it visible, so that you are demonstrating your progress and value and not trying no one is looking for you to demonstrate perfection. I'm sorry, newsflash, that's not what your employer wants. Your employer wants speed of implementation and the ability to be able to back yourself and collaborate with other people.
Jo:And I'm sure most employers and even most women, once they learn how to do this, would rather not do an MBA and actually do something that's going to drive change. We've had people that have come to us and, yes, they've done some work with us, but that's been over, say 12 weeks, and they've gone. Oh my God, I did an MBA. That was three years and I got more out of the 12 weeks than I did in three years, because that was just so much learning and no integration, no implementation, no actual boots on the ground. Instead of saying, how do I, if I'm going to learn, I want to close the loop here. We often talk about shrinking the amount of time between when you learn something and when you implement it, so the faster you can bring that loop. Not learn about it for a year and then maybe in one more year when it's perfect, try it, learn it within 20 minutes, give it a shot, give it a crack. You're going to stuff it up, that's okay, but the only way is to practice.
Sabina:Yeah, that's the irony, isn't it? Unless you get it out there and get some feedback, you're not going to be able to finesse it, so it's going to take you longer to be perfect. Just something else that you said there, jo. Another trap with the person who always wants to be doing more qualifications or self-help, is that's absorbing from your external, looking to an outside authority, shall we say, and being that almost like deferential Yep, you're the authority, I'm going to take it on board, and then I'm going to follow in your footsteps.
Sabina:And again, that's the step change. You need to be able to absorb what's needed, but then almost alchemize it within yourself and then share that knowledge with your intuition, with your flavor, with your experience, and then put it out. And that is a very important skill in the age of AI, because that's what brings your unique perspective. It is mind-blowing mind-blowing what AI can now speak and seemingly think. However, you still have to bring your human and your unique flavor, and so if you are simply absorbing rote from external sources, you are going to make yourself defunct. You've got to run it through your own internal system and make it yours, but also implement it and make it public and visible.
Jo:Yeah, brilliant call out on AI, because this is one of the biggest trends, I think, potentially of our generation in terms of how work is done, the speed of output. And if we don't own that humanity and again, all the knowledge, people now can go and do a three-year MBA, or they can ask ChatG, gpt, and it will spit out just as good answer. So the question of how do I get speed from this, how do I make this wisdom, how do I implement it and bring my human to it, is going to be a really, really big competitive advantage if you want to rise, if you want to be someone who's able to reach your potential and see what's possible from a career perspective or in life more generally. So, sabina, one last key takeaway for somebody who's there maybe pondering doing an MBA or pondering I need to listen to more and more podcasts.
Jo:Granted, this is a podcast, but this is a better one. What do they need? What's one takeaway they can do? Actually, how about we try this? They listen to a podcast right now. What do we want them to do with some information they've got from this podcast, so this doesn't just become one more piece of information they consume?
Sabina:Yes. So maybe think about some of the concepts that we shared. Pick something that might be relevant to you. So, are you someone who overprepares? Is there something that you could ship off your desk more quickly? Are you someone that defers to external authorities more than trusting your own gut? Are you someone who doesn't like to put out messy first drafts? Whatever it is, if something has struck a chord with you in what we've shared today, pick one thing and see how you can start to make a change and apply it in the next 24 hours in your life, whether it's at home, at work. Maybe it's something you're studying. If you're studying, how can you absorb something and then teach a concept to someone? Actually speak it out loud into the world. So play with these ideas and pick something to do.
Jo:I love it, Get into action. This is what we want to do. And if you are wondering, do I have this pattern? You might already know the answer, but you are welcome. You are invited to take our burnout archetype quiz. We'll put the links in the show notes. But find out if you are a self-help scholar which is one of our key burnout archetypes, one of the ways that women burn out and if you find out you are, you're going to get access to your own secret podcast episode, designed just for you. If you're not a self-help scholar, there are five others. So take the quiz, check out the links and we'll see what you are.
Jo:Thanks for joining me, Sabina Tay. A great topic and looking forward to some implementation from our listeners. Thanks for joining us today on the Balance and Beyond podcast. We're so glad you carved out this time for yourself. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend who might need to hear this today. And if you're feeling extra generous, leaving us a review on your podcast platform of choice would mean the world to us. If you're keen to dive deeper into our world, visit balanceinstitutecom to discover more about the toolkit that has helped thousands of women avoid burnout and create a life of balance and beyond. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time on the Balance and Beyond podcast.
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