The Mama Judy and Jill Podcast

Episode 14: Why Do We Do Art?

• Jill Gottenstrater and Judy George • Episode 14

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This week Mama Judy and I are diving into the age-old question of why humans are drawn to create art.

We discuss how art provides you with a way to express the inner part of your being –  a way that traditional forms of communication can’t express. Mama Judy shares how doing art can physiologically change your body, alleviating anxiety and pain. And we both share how creating art can bring you a sense of joy.

We’d love to hear from you… why do YOU do art? 

Resources mentioned in episode:

Book: The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin

Artists on Instagram mentioned:
Alex Castro Ferreira
Carinne Meyerink Instagram 

If you'd prefer to watch this podcast, you can find us over on our YouTube page (The Mama Judy & Jill Podcast).

We'd LOVE to hear from you! Click here to send us your thoughts and ideas for a future episode.

Send us a direct message on Instagram:
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>>Jill on Instagram


Jill:

Welcome back to the Mama, Judy and Jill podcast. We're so glad you're here with us today. Hi Mama. Judy.

Mama Judy:

Hi Jill and hi everybody. Either watching or listening. We are very glad to have you with us.

Jill:

We sure are. And today, mama, Judy and I are going to be talking about why do any of us even do art? Why do we do art? So that's the thing that we wanted to talk about today. But first of all, I wanted to, mention Mama Judy is sitting here. We do these recordings on Zoom so we can see each other. This is also something that goes on YouTube, so you can watch these episodes on YouTube, but Mama Judy is sitting in all her glory right now with rose colored glasses. I'm not kidding you. Rose colored glasses. She's looking beautiful. And Mama. Judy, tell us a little bit about why you're wearing your rose colored glasses today.

Mama Judy:

You know, I'd like to say it was something profound, but. The light coming through the window is very bright, and I thought, well, I can't put on my dark glasses. So I had these, uh, Jack had these lying around and I thought, well, they matched my outfit and I've always been accused of wearing rose colored glasses and my optimistic attitude. And I thought, well, why not? So here I am in these gigantic. Rose colored glasses.

Jill:

Yes, you look very groovy. And the light that she's talking about, mama Judy is in her travel. So, if you've listened to some of our other episodes, She and my dad travel for months at a time in the summer to get out of the heat. And so tell everybody where you are right now, mama Judy.

Mama Judy:

For this month, right now we are in Park City, Utah, and it's a beautiful place, very happy to be here. However, I will say that the altitude of over 7,000 feet makes me gasp for breath. So if you hear me panting, you'll know it's only because of the altitude.

Jill:

Well, you and dad had also gone up to Big Bear, California, mountain and, and you were having, you had the same experience. And then are you guys using oxygen? Like I know in High Mountain places they have oxygen that they sell at stores that you can use. You

Mama Judy:

bet. We got our little oxygen containers and when you go from living at sea level to going to 7,300. 73 feet. It is a change for your body, so we're doing fine. It's just that every now and then you have to take an extra deep breath.

Jill:

Yes, well breathe freely as we're talking.

Mama Judy:

And like I said, if you hear the panting, it's only because of that. Okay, well, let's, how about we just jump right into our, topic today and Mama Judy, I would love to start off with a quote, you and I both have read this book called The Creative Act, a Way of Being, and it's by Rick Rubin. Rick Rubin is a music producer. he is an author. He wrote this book. It's a great book, for not only if you're a creative person, I just feel like it's a wonderful book either way. But I've got a couple quotes that I might reference, but I wanted to start us off with one as to the topic of why do we even do art? So Rick says, the reason we are alive is to express ourselves in the world and creating art may be the most effective and beautiful method of doing so. Art goes beyond language, beyond lives. It's a universal way to send messages between each other and through time. Oh, that's beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah, and I agree with you Jill. Let me, back up for just a second. Another artist I follow on Instagram had put this out as the best book she has ever read on creativity. So of course I immediately ran out and got it on Kendall, and I agree with her. I love everything he says. And his comment about art transcending language in a way ties back to our previous e episodes eight and nine, where we talk about art, healing pain. Because in any part of life, art. Does transcend language. It is a way for us to express ourselves that words are inadequate to say, to use. But that aside, there are a lot of people that wouldn't even ask this question. They just. They just do their art because they know they have to, and I am a bit like that, but there have been times where I'm sitting there and I've got all these pages in this room full of supplies and I'm going, you know, why are you doing this? It's, it just kind of flitters across. It's not something that hangs around too long. And so I've often wondered why do we create arch. And it is a way to express an inner part of our being. I believe something that we are not even necessarily aware of, A part of us that, for example, Jill, in your stitching, you may find yourself learning about yourself. Or having thoughts come up that if you were just sitting around doing something else, they wouldn't even appear. So that's a way of your stitching help you access an inner deeper, more spiritual part of yourself.

Jill:

Yes. Now, one word you said a minute ago, you said some people feel like they have to mm-hmm. Tell me what, what that means.

Mama Judy:

I can only tell you from experience that if I go, even when I was not focusing on mixed media when I was younger and it was sewing or it was some jewelry making, there is a low grade anxiety that occurs in me and it makes me very restless if I. Have not been able to do something creative, and I'm going to say usually after about three or four days, it literally physiologically changes my body. It's like something inside that can't wait to get out, and if I don't have access to it, it drives me nuts. Wow. Maybe not literally, but you know, it kind of does. Yeah. I become very antsy, very unsettled.

Jill:

Yes. Well, and I think that in and in some people, and you referenced this in episode eight, when we did the art, as a way of healing when we talked about our own methods of using art as a healing mechanism. you know that you have lupus. Mm-hmm. And so I think that could be another thing if you keep it all trapped in, I would guess that it potentially could make you physically feel. sick or, or hurt? Yes. With the lupus,

Mama Judy:

absolutely. Because number one thing with lupus that causes a flare up is stress. Now we always think of stress as something bad, but stress can be something good, excitement, something's gonna happen. So, you know, I really should figure out how I can go through life. In total neutral, but I can't. And so the art making, as I referenced in episode eight with the lupus is a way for me to not only get out of the physical pain, but to settle myself. Mm. Art settles me. You know, I was just saying, it makes me antsy if I can't do art. And it's true. So when I do it, it's like, calm me. Yes. And it really doesn't matter what form of creativity it is, as long as it's creative in some way. So that's that need inside of me to create something that I don't know what it is. And it really, it's irrelevant what it is. It's none of my business what it is. Hmm. I just have to allow it expression. I.

Jill:

Right. Another part of this book that we were speaking about, the Creative Act, one of the chapters Rick was talking about how creativity is like a river and the ideas are just flowing through us as long as we're letting it out. But if we stop,'cause he, he said something about in the book, and I can imagine this. Imagine you're working on one of your books, your collage books, or I'm doing a stitching or some, sometimes you, Might not want to either, give, give it away, or you might not wanna like cover it up with something or change it because you feel like this is so good, I'm never gonna do something again, or I'm not gonna go forward with this'cause what if I ruin it this way? And he said, you need to just keep letting it. Flow out of you because then more will come. And if you, if you don't let it, it's gonna actually stop and you'll get stagnant or, you know, get antsy or whatever. But the fact that you're letting it flow through you will ultimately help you become more creative and have even more ideas and just feel better about creating.

Mama Judy:

Absolutely. And. I have heard that quote before. unfortunately I can't remember the author of that. It wasn't Rick Rubal, although he's saying the same thing, and that's what they said. This is something that never ceases. It's always there, and so you just have to get out of the way. You know, in our culture, we're so used to. Analyzing things and figuring things out, and why did I do that and why did I do this? But with art and creativity, sometimes that's the opposite of what you need to do. You need to just let it flow. Mm-hmm. I know that everybody out there has a, they could tell us their reasons for doing art. Some of them would mirror what I, we've said, and some of them might be because I've always known I wanted to be an artist and this is my livelihood. But beyond that, I think there is just a need in the human being to create and express. And if I might pick up my phone, change my rose colored glasses. For my little brown boring reading glasses, Rick Rubin has a quote that I just think sums it up. If we like what we are creating, we don't have to know why. Sometimes the reasons are obvious, sometimes not, and they can change over time. It could be good for any of a thousand different reasons. When we're making things we love, our mission is accomplished. There is nothing to figure out. And I think at the bottom of it, that's what I think is that if we're making something we like end of discussion. Yes. That's why we're making it. It's something we love to do. It brings us happiness. There are so many ways to express ourselves creatively that it doesn't matter what the art form is, as long as we are happy with it. Now, I don't mean that, that means that every time you do a stitch or I do a journal page, we're gonna go, Ooh, boy, I really like that. There'll be times when you go, oh, that's, I don't like that, but we're still doing it. Like Reuben said, we're still moving through that water. You know, if anybody, if I can use an analogy on the river that Rick talked about, imagine that river. And it gets jammed up with logs or a beaver builds a dam across the river. Well, on the other side of that log jam or that dam, there's no trickle. It's all stuck behind that obstacle. So, We need to remove the obstacles to our river of creativity, whatever that means. Sometimes people don't even know what that means, and you have to examine yourself and say, why am I stuck? Why am I not doing, why am I doing this? And if you can say, I do this because I enjoy it, you don't have to answer to anybody else. You don't even have to. Show people if you don't want to. That's kind of a byproduct. You're doing it because it's something you love and you have a need to express yourself. So let me turn this back over in your direction. Jill, when you started stitching, why did you start stitching?

Jill:

Well, I wanted something to do that would be fun. I, with my hands, I, I just, I've always liked to do arts and crafts, but it's usually just like little simple things, you know, nothing like the stitching and not that stitching is hard, but I. And so I wanted to do, have, just have a neat, fun hobby that I could do anywhere. And I had heard about that some people do it slow stitching as a meditation practice. Mm-hmm. And so I thought, I've always done meditation for many years, but just sit quietly for 10 minutes. quietly with my thoughts or without my thoughts hopefully. and I, I thought that would be fun to replace that if I could quietly be stitching and have that be my meditation time instead. So that it was sort of a twofold reason and I was so inspired by seeing you mostly.'cause at that time I wasn't on Instagram, on my Instagram account. Jelly G creates, I was just my normal account. And I would, see you posting all your wonderful things and it was just inspiring me. And I think something inside of me, part that I was born with or whatever, was like yearning to do something. Not just exactly like you were doing, but doing something to express myself. I, I didn't think that that's, I could articulate that that's what it was, but I probably wanted something to express myself.

Mama Judy:

That's it. That word yearning is a perfect word because that is sometimes a lot of times buried and you never know when it's gonna come out. And how many, I cannot tell you how many times I've heard people say, I'm not creative. I couldn't do things like that, which I don't believe. I think it's more an example like you found. It just hasn't found its perfect form of expression. And I'm sorry I even used the word perfect, but it's form of expression. Now, let me ask you this. Now that you've been doing it and you've enjoyed it so much, can you imagine not doing it?

Jill:

No. I cannot imagine. I was doing some work earlier and today I have the day off. It's Friday. where I work, everyone listening. I have a four day work week, so I have Fridays off and I was working this morning in my pajamas until like 1130 in the morning. I was,'cause I couldn't get up. I went in there in the morning to do some stuff and I just didn't get up again. So I had my pajamas on and I was just smiling as I was working and I was just so grateful that I have this outlet that I didn't even know, knew that I had this outlet two years ago.

Mama Judy:

Right. And at that time of someone that said something to you, you would've said, oh, I'm not creative.

Jill:

I did, I told you that many times, right? You would say, oh, Jill tried this, or I, you all listening, I would go to Mama Judy's house and you know, I was so excited'cause she would sit down and put the journal stuff out and, you know, teach me different things. But even while she was doing that and she was guiding me through it and being a good teacher and inspirational and. You know, having me, be my own creative self, I still, in the back of my mind was like, well, if Mama Judy's not sitting here holding my hand, like there's no way I can be creative like this on my own. So I figured this is just a one-time thing, you know? And so I. While I don't do the kinds of things you do specifically, I found my other thing, but I guess the point too is if, if people don't know you have to try things or you just have to listen to some sort of yearning in your soul and just try and, and be okay with not creating something perfect.

Mama Judy:

Oh yeah. And we touched on perfectionism. Back in one of our earlier episodes. Yes. but I think you're a perfect example, Jill, of what? A lot of people, including myself, before I found my creative voice or even realized I had one, we just don't know what that yearning feeling means. My recommendation to anybody that's out there that feels like some kind of feeling is inside of them. Just start trying different things. You're gonna be like Jill, in that you're gonna find something that resonates with your heart. I have over the years, just done different things, and that's okay too. I'm just evolving, or I don't even know if that's the right word that I would use, but it doesn't matter where you start. That's that old adage. A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. So if you're out there and you have some kind of yearning and you look at other people's creativity and you wish you could do that, you can. You just have not found your expression. And when we started this, sorry, I have to take a deep breath. When we started this, we said, why do we do this? Well, Even though we do it for fun, we do it to express ourselves. we do it to sell, we do it for a variety of reasons. I think at the bottom of it, there's just this human d n a to creatively express ourselves. someone once asked me, this is. Tied in, but a little off. What's the difference between a craft and art? And the big difference is imagination. So I think in our creativity, all of us have that imagination that is asking to be recognized, and we have to recognize it before anybody else

Jill:

does. So what do you mean that a craft. Are you saying? Are you saying that, when you do a craft, you're not using your imagination? And what would you define craft as if that's correct?

Mama Judy:

Yes, I am saying that a craft, you are not using your imagination, and I'm gonna go back to the master of all things to me, is Michelangelo. Mm-hmm. Michelangelo learned the craft of sculpting by being a journeyman for years with another sculptor. He took it to the art form when he took those skills. And used his imagination to create things like the David or the Madonna. when I was younger, I was given paint by number kids. Mm-hmm. That's. The beginning of using your imagination something that is functional. For example, a craft would be something that has a functional edge. The big difference, and I'm probably sounding a little vague here. But the big difference in my view is that when your own imagination comes into play, you have gone from a craft to an art. Mm-hmm. Because I can make a kit and I can give it to someone, and they simply follow instructions and they're not using their imagination. But when they take the skills they've learned from something and then they do it their way and they add their pieces and their imagination. Now they've transcended those skills and they have gone into an art form.

Jill:

Yes. And I think, does that make sense? It does. And I wanna say that speaking of the kits for people that, and I think most of our listeners probably are artistic already. Yes. For people. And if, if the, our listeners, if you all know of somebody that doesn't feel like they know how to do something, start them with a kit. There's a lot of beautiful, people on Instagram like that sell their kits on Etsy and you know, they send you the stuff with the instructions. It's, and that is something that, well I would still do it kid occasionally, but years ago that could have been just the thing to go, okay, I get this, this is fun. And be able to. Feel empowered to create something, even though it's not using my imagination, like you said, but it's still, you're creating something, it's just Yes.

Mama Judy:

yes. So absolutely. There are some wonderful kits out there. Artistic kits. Mm-hmm. Um, Alex, for example, in Portugal, does some beautiful kits for making journals, and there are all kinds of things out there. So yes, the most important thing out of all of this is if you haven't taken the first step, take the step, however, you have to take that first step.

Jill:

And since you mentioned Alex from Portugal, I will link up to her Instagram handle so people can go there. And I have another one, I think her name, name is, Corinne Myrick or something like that, but she's another one that does some stitching type, ones that are very inspirational and fun. I'll link up to those two, but there's lots more than that. And there's so many wonderful creative people in the community that sell those things on Etsy and that type of thing.

Mama Judy:

Absolutely. And you know, Jill, you and I have talked about our journeys and how we got to our creative spots where we are now. We have referenced an extremely creative person, Rick Rubin. I would be interested if anybody listening or watching wanted to give us comments on their own personal journey. Why do they make. Why do they love creating? see, some of it may be what we've talked about, but there may be people out there that do it for things I haven't ever thought about. Right. And I'd love to hear'em.

Jill:

Okay, great. Well, when this episode airs then what we'll do, mama Judy, is you and I both will put a post and we'll pose that question. You'll put one on your account. I'll put one on my Instagram account. People, if they're watching it on YouTube, you can just comment below. that answer to that question. You're right. I would love to hear what people say. And I think that the fact, when other people comment and share their own experience, it could be a learning experience for somebody else. That might be, it might inspire someone else to action or to think about, something in a new way. So that's a great idea.

Mama Judy:

You know, you and I, again, repeating myself, we do our own stories, but I like other people's stories too. I do too. So I hope people will share some of their stories on any of our episodes. we love the feedback. Yes. Well, I guess that's not feedback. We love the conversations.

Jill:

Yes, we do. We do. Well, this was a fun conversation, so, oh, I had one more quote. Let me just see if it's a good one. Still. I'm gonna, we can close out with this one. It's a Rick Rubin quote again. It says, we feel compelled to engage as if by some primal instinct, the same force that calls turtles toward the sea after hatching in the sand. We follow this instinct to deny it is dispiriting as if we are in violation of nature. Ooh, he ha.

Mama Judy:

See what I mean? He just, I know, takes the words and the thoughts. That's perfect.

Jill:

Yeah. And, and that's him. That's his creativity. I love that. He, his art is this, he create helping people create music as well, but also is this the, the form of writing? It's a beautiful piece of art.

Mama Judy:

Yes. And both of us can highly recommend that book. And I think that that's it. I think you feel like if you have this yearning that you talk to, but you haven't been able to express it, it's almost. It is a feeling of going against the natural order or against nature. I'm a living, I have to create, I have to go back up the river like the salmon do. I have to create, I'm okay with that. If I'm part of the natural environment, I do things like the turtles or the fish. I'm okay with that. I think that's kind of cool.

Jill:

I do too. I think that's really cool. Alright, mama Judy. Well, this was fun. I love you and your rose colored glasses. Thank you. And we will talk to you again. And thank you all for listening. We appreciate you so much and we will talk to you next week.

Mama Judy:

Yes, thank you my

Jill:

dear.